Latest / Get Real with Jim Weiss / Mary Stutts (CEO of the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association)

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Mary Stutts (CEO of the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association) · Get Real with Jim Weiss

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  Speaker 1: I'm Jim Weiss, chairman and founder of Real Chemistry, and
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  Speaker 1: this is the Get Real with the Chairman podcast. For
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  Speaker 1: this episode, I'm talking to Mary Stutt, CEO of the
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  Speaker 1: Healthcare Business Women's Association also known as HbA, a global
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  Speaker 1: nonprofit dedicated to advancing women's impact and healthcare industries, where
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  Speaker 1: I've acted as a board advisor and mentor for about
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  Speaker 1: a decade. Mary and I have been friends and colleagues
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  Speaker 1: for a long time. She is a change maker. She's
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  Speaker 1: opened my eyes to so much, so many times. I'm
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  Speaker 1: thrilled that I get to share a bit of her.
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  Speaker 2: Wisdom with you today.
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  Speaker 1: Mary has had an extensive and diverse career in healthcare.
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  Speaker 1: She's worked in leadership positions at Genentech, Bayer, Cristel, Meyers,
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  Speaker 1: squib Soon, Event, United Health Group, Kaiser, Permanente, Stanford Healthcare,
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  Speaker 1: and Comcast NBCUniversal. Before joining HbA, she served as chief
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  Speaker 1: Global Health Equity and Inclusion Officer for our company, Real Chemistry.
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  Speaker 2: In twenty twenty.
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  Speaker 1: Two, she co created our Real Health Equity summit, Changing
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  Speaker 1: Out Loud during the JP Morgan Healthcare Conference, which is
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  Speaker 1: coming up next week at the time of this recording.
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  Speaker 2: As CEO of HbA.
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  Speaker 1: She's providing a platform for women in healthcare to elevate
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  Speaker 1: their careers through diverse professional networks. HbA has laser focused
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  Speaker 1: on community growth with myriad opportunities for women to connect
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  Speaker 1: and support each other in their careers.
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  Speaker 3: They have a.
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  Speaker 1: Robust professional development arm with programs, events, and resources for
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  Speaker 1: women in health including mentorship, leadership, development, advocacy, and skill
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  Speaker 1: building workshops.
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  Speaker 2: So let's get started, well, Mary, thanks for joining me.
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  Speaker 1: I always love sitting down and talking to you. But
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  Speaker 1: we have had many journeys together. Your journey in healthcare
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  Speaker 1: has been diverse, lateral all over so many different parts
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  Speaker 1: of healthcare. There's sort of a common theme you've observed
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  Speaker 1: as a woman who's successfully navigated this sector of healthcare.
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  Speaker 1: What do you sort of globally observe in your new
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  Speaker 1: world now as head of HbA. I'm so proud that
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  Speaker 1: you did this and excited having advised them for many years,
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  Speaker 1: and it feels like we're on this journey together and
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  Speaker 1: have been for a long time. So I'll let you
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  Speaker 1: sort of talk a little bit about what you've observed
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  Speaker 1: in your career over the years, and then we'll dive
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  Speaker 1: a little deeper into specifics around HbA.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, thank you Jim, and thank you for the opportunity
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  Speaker 3: to be on the podcast. It's just so much more
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  Speaker 3: possible if we can get all the right books on
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  Speaker 3: the same page in the room. You are great at
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  Speaker 3: that convening. I love the convenence to bring the great
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  Speaker 3: minds together, and that is the piece for me that
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  Speaker 3: I have observed over the years in my career, the
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  Speaker 3: need to have leaders who understand the broader health ecosystem.
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  Speaker 3: And I really like talking about it that way because
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  Speaker 3: depending on who you talk to. You talk about healthcare,
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  Speaker 3: people think that's just the provider payer side. You talk
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  Speaker 3: about life sciences, people think that's just the drug development
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  Speaker 3: and discovery. But it's all connected. And so that need
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  Speaker 3: to think holistically across the whole ecosystem, I think is
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  Speaker 3: very important to what I'm recognizing now is that more
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  Speaker 3: and more organizations, when you talk about it globally, they
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  Speaker 3: are recognizing the interconnectedness of the health ecosystem, and of
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  Speaker 3: course the interconnectedness of the digital pieces and how that's
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  Speaker 3: packing everything.
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  Speaker 2: So how has it changed?
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  Speaker 1: Is it different depending on what industry you're in, or
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  Speaker 1: are there similarities like in provider world versus digital world.
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  Speaker 1: Do you see women with more opportunity in one industry
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  Speaker 1: versus another?
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  Speaker 2: Is it somewhat similar?
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  Speaker 3: So I think that the opportunity for women on the
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  Speaker 3: healthcare provider and payers side just only continues to increase
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  Speaker 3: because you have that start with the nursing and the
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  Speaker 3: different types of nursing, whether it's a CNA nursing assistant
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  Speaker 3: and working up are in and then moving into administration
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  Speaker 3: and then into management. So you're still going to see
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  Speaker 3: that in some of those companies. So we say it's
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  Speaker 3: roughly about seventy percent some of those companies, it's spos
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  Speaker 3: are to eighty percent there workforce, So you're still seeing
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  Speaker 3: those opportunities there. And then on the life sciences side,
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  Speaker 3: you are seeing the opportunities, but there's somewhere missing, right,
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  Speaker 3: We're not getting younger women interested. We're not going further
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  Speaker 3: up the pipeline to get girls interested in even at
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  Speaker 3: the middle school level. So what I heard from these leaders,
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  Speaker 3: I was talking to them across all the industries, what
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  Speaker 3: can we do to get women's recent college branduts entry level,
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  Speaker 3: What can we do to get those earlier in education?
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  Speaker 3: But also how can we get them more interested in science.
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  Speaker 3: On the Life Science decide, they're trying to get more
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  Speaker 3: women as scientists. But here's the new thingers Jim with
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  Speaker 3: COVID shining such a spotlight on how equity they're not
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  Speaker 3: getting funded the way the men are. Women's innovation is
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  Speaker 3: not being funded. And that is also something I heard
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  Speaker 3: from these very senior level leaders, especially the ones who
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  Speaker 3: are entrepreneurs, and of course the ones in the venture
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  Speaker 3: capital space and all about and the women themselves. They
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  Speaker 3: are realizing just how difficult it is that propensity that
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  Speaker 3: are so to think that the real innovation and to
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  Speaker 3: give meaningful money to men is still a problem, and
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  Speaker 3: it's parting our industry, the eco system.
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  Speaker 2: What contributes to that? What do you think?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, there's obviously all the probably inherent biases, and
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  Speaker 1: I know you're involved in helping women present better network
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  Speaker 1: relative to get and raising that money, because raising money
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  Speaker 1: is hard for everybody, especially right now or in the
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  Speaker 1: last year or two. Are there programs that can help
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  Speaker 1: women connect. I know you've been very involved in the
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  Speaker 1: board coaching and training, which led to a lot of
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  Speaker 1: people ending up on boards, whether they're replacing another man
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  Speaker 1: or actually having that at it as a position does
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  Speaker 1: another question, But the real issue is could we help
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  Speaker 1: support and prepare women to raise money for their innovations better?
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  Speaker 3: Yes, And that bigger focus on increasing the financial documen
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  Speaker 3: of women is something clearly that I heard during my
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  Speaker 3: listening joy that we were asked as the HbA to
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  Speaker 3: help do more of that. So starting with even just
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  Speaker 3: collecting the data so that people understand that women only
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  Speaker 3: get three percent of venture capital money, women of color
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  Speaker 3: get less than one percent of VC funding for their innovation.
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  Speaker 3: But if you look at the data, especially like our
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  Speaker 3: women lead have done some amazing data and what they
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  Speaker 3: have found is that you give a woman, especially black women,
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  Speaker 3: a dollar, you're going to get seven dollars for every
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  Speaker 3: dollar that goes to them. The way that women invest
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  Speaker 3: into the business, into their families, into their communities, into jobs,
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  Speaker 3: and they'll need more for other people to benefit others
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  Speaker 3: is something that you see now with these women entrepreneurs.
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  Speaker 3: So get that data out there is a very important
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  Speaker 3: first step. But then also helping to get the women
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  Speaker 3: with these innovative ideas in front of the right people,
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  Speaker 3: and that's where I see the HbA as being able
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  Speaker 3: to help. So That's why in my conversation as I'm
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  Speaker 3: talking to CEOs and other leaders, drawing this to better
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  Speaker 3: attention and doing simple things. Jim, like every company because
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  Speaker 3: of ESG, they're committment to ESG has funding for procurement
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  Speaker 3: for supplier diversity funding and so one of the things
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  Speaker 3: we're doing with the Female Potion is this whole initiative
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  Speaker 3: to work with companies to ask them to increase the
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  Speaker 3: percent of their supplier diversity their procurement dollars that goes
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  Speaker 3: to women. Because it's the same thing. Only about three
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  Speaker 3: percent of our companies procurement dollars go to women own businesses.
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  Speaker 3: A lot of these companies that women are doing in
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  Speaker 3: the health equity state are not visible to the curement group.
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  Speaker 3: So helping to get these women in front of that
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  Speaker 3: for curement, but in front of research and development because
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  Speaker 3: again they're working on help equity and do with all
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  Speaker 3: these great things. So that's where we camplain a role.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it sounds like it's a bit of
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  Speaker 1: a number of factors. And when you look at the
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  Speaker 1: venture community, how many of them are women. So I
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  Speaker 1: know Kathy Freedman at Google Ventures. You know Kathy, she
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  Speaker 1: has a group. I've definitely seen it, and there are
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  Speaker 1: a few groups meeting. Jamie Diamond is doing something at
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  Speaker 1: JP Morgan bringing women CEOs together, and the executives. I
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  Speaker 1: know there are a few initiatives that are occurring.
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  Speaker 2: There, and I know you have your meeting.
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  Speaker 1: I think one of the questions, and maybe this is
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  Speaker 1: something we do as a follow up, is how do
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  Speaker 1: we bring a lot of those efforts together, Yes, so
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  Speaker 1: that people have a sense of it.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe that's something that needs to happen.
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  Speaker 1: Where it's not just done in all all these little silos.
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  Speaker 1: We'd bringing it all together because I'm sure it's getting
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  Speaker 1: done from very different perspectives, rather than hey, we all
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  Speaker 1: have the same mend goal, how do we help everybody
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  Speaker 1: get there faster. So it's similar to what we've talked
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  Speaker 1: about in health equity. If we took more of the
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  Speaker 1: parties and got them talking and getting more public private partnership.
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  Speaker 2: Is that something you see that could be more helpful.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, the public private partnership piece is so huge, Jim,
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  Speaker 3: but you hit the nail on the head. We have
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  Speaker 3: got to broaden our convenience to bring more of these
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  Speaker 3: disparate groups together. So You're right, we're all working towards
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  Speaker 3: the same common goal and we can help convene and
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  Speaker 3: pull back together.
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  Speaker 1: You take the best to breed across the systems, right. Obviously,
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  Speaker 1: HbA has been on the front line of this from
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  Speaker 1: the beginning.
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  Speaker 2: So let's go back to that gotten in the sea.
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  Speaker 2: You've been there more than a minute.
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  Speaker 1: What are the things you want us to know about
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  Speaker 1: HbA now and how to get involved and what are
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  Speaker 1: the goals and let's hear a little bit about that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and but I say we, I mean the collective
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  Speaker 3: week like you you're on our advisory boarding have been,
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  Speaker 3: but others from across the industry. So I think this
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  Speaker 3: is where that ability to pull all these voices people
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  Speaker 3: together is where we have the pout. So coming to
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  Speaker 3: the HbAS, you know our overall focus at the HbA
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  Speaker 3: kind of the four things we're known for, it is
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  Speaker 3: the career development for women. It's the access that we give.
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  Speaker 3: The second thing, access to our networks, to our platforms,
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  Speaker 3: our stages, our microphones. And then there's the recognition the
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  Speaker 3: awards like the Woman of the Year, the Male Ally
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  Speaker 3: of the Year, the Star and all the different awards
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  Speaker 3: that we give even companies our ACE Awards, so that
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  Speaker 3: whole rewarding recognition piece it's here. It's because companies lack
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  Speaker 3: real chemists and others can go through us as a
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  Speaker 3: third party to give this recognition to women in their organizations.
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  Speaker 3: So it's not just what they get internally, but they're
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  Speaker 3: on this bigger plot more being recognized for their accomplishments
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  Speaker 3: and that. Of course. The fourth thing is the legacy.
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  Speaker 3: So a lot of when it may not be actively
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  Speaker 3: working in a corporate environment right now, but they want
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  Speaker 3: to stay engaged. This is also where entrepreneurs are with
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  Speaker 3: this whole idea of legacy and wanting to continue to
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  Speaker 3: give back and be a part of something very positive
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  Speaker 3: for women. So that's been the foundation of what the
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  Speaker 3: HbA has done. When I came in is you know,
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  Speaker 3: I did that real chemist that gen tak. I have
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  Speaker 3: to do my listening tour and talk to all the
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  Speaker 3: stakeholders and hear from them their opinions about what's going
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  Speaker 3: on with the company, including our employees. Employees are the
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  Speaker 3: number one stakeholders. But what I heard at the HbA
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  Speaker 3: was just so exciting to me because the number one
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  Speaker 3: thing I heard is that HbA brand is so strong.
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  Speaker 3: There are other areas that you may want to focus on,
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  Speaker 3: and we've got a whole distant things, but we've basically
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  Speaker 3: narrowed it down and prioritized with the help of the
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  Speaker 3: Advisory Board, to look at women's health and wellness, which
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  Speaker 3: is so important and ties very much into the health
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  Speaker 3: equity women's financial wellness. We know that financial status is
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  Speaker 3: the number one social determinant of health care, and that's
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  Speaker 3: across the board. What we've been talking about, whether that's
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  Speaker 3: helping them as entrepreneurs, or helping them develop our financial acumen,
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  Speaker 3: or helping them develop to get jobs and starting right
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  Speaker 3: out of college and doing things like that. But then
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  Speaker 3: the other thing is this whole women in the workforce
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  Speaker 3: helping to address the exodus, the mass exodus of women
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  Speaker 3: from the health eco system workforce. That is a real
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  Speaker 3: challenge that we just don't believe enough people recognize.
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  Speaker 1: So when you talk about that, are you expanding your
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  Speaker 1: membership drive into those worlds where maybe it is hospital
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  Speaker 1: and healthcare, because I've always thought of healthcare. Women's Business
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  Speaker 1: Association is a little bit heavy up on pharma consulting,
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  Speaker 1: manufacturing marketing, but not so much where it's delivered where
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  Speaker 1: the actual healthcare gets delivered or in pharmacies.
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  Speaker 2: Is that are you expanding your membership drive as well?
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  Speaker 3: That is exactly what we're doing to and we're expanding
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  Speaker 3: to reach out Again. I've worked in that side of
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  Speaker 3: the business, so my connections there bringing HbA to their attention.
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  Speaker 3: To your point, a lot of them are not heard
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  Speaker 3: of the HbA, but they are very interested. This month,
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to World Economic Forum at Doubles and we
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  Speaker 3: have a lot of companies that want to be there
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  Speaker 3: that potion folks have connected me to to make them
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  Speaker 3: aware HbA and got them interested in joining. But then
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  Speaker 3: when I get back from there, I'm going to Houston.
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  Speaker 3: We're one of our board members. We now have a
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  Speaker 3: board member senior person with the Houston Hospital System and
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  Speaker 3: she has arranged an entire event for me to meet
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  Speaker 3: with all of the different providers site organizations in that
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  Speaker 3: whole Houston area and I will be doing that literally
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  Speaker 3: going around the country. So we definitely are expanding our
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  Speaker 3: membership base to pay of providers, but also digital organizations
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  Speaker 3: and also venture capital organizations.
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  Speaker 1: And you said you're going to Davos, are we going
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  Speaker 1: to start seeing HbA and other parts of the world.
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  Speaker 2: What are some of the things we should know about.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, So that was another piece that I heard very clearly.
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  Speaker 3: In the top three things that I heard from the CEO,
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  Speaker 3: the third thing was helping them with their global workforce.
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  Speaker 3: So now keeping by our corporate partners are all global
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  Speaker 3: organizations and they have women around the world literally, and
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  Speaker 3: they have said to us they are having a hard
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  Speaker 3: time and making sure that the women globally are getting
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  Speaker 3: access to the opportunities like whenmen here in the US
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  Speaker 3: a hobey, Which is why we are expanding our memberships.
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  Speaker 3: Right now, we're in seventy four country on six continents,
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  Speaker 3: and so we have a very aggressive expansion plan and
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  Speaker 3: to primarily where our companies are asking us to expand.
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  Speaker 3: We're very saturated in Europe, but we're expanding into Asia.
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  Speaker 3: India we did an initial launch. We have two more
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  Speaker 3: launchers in India this year in Mumbai and Bangalore. Most
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  Speaker 3: of our companies have a huge presence in Tokyo and Singapore,
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  Speaker 3: but they are also Latin America. We are launching in
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  Speaker 3: Buenos Aires and so Powell. We're getting a lot of
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  Speaker 3: requests to do more in Africa. We have not anything
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  Speaker 3: directly in Africa, so that's on our agenda as well,
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  Speaker 3: and the women are already there. I am overwhelmed with
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  Speaker 3: the level of receptivity I'm getting as I go to
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  Speaker 3: all these countries and it's men at women who are there.
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  Speaker 3: The male allies are showing up and supporting and so
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  Speaker 3: that is definitely a huge part of what we are doing.
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  Speaker 3: Is this global expansion.
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  Speaker 1: Now I want to shift into a section I'm calling
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  Speaker 1: so what's it all mean? Where we hear about your
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: work and action and how it's playing out in the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: real world.
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  Speaker 2: How can we get more male allies?
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like when you expand in new countries, I
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  Speaker 1: guess there's sort of two areas, guys and also younger people.
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  Speaker 1: How are we engaging those audiences so that we build
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  Speaker 1: for the future.
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  Speaker 3: A big part of engaging the male allies, to be
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  Speaker 3: honest with you, is having the men who are leaders
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  Speaker 3: in the company show the way, and that is what
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  Speaker 3: we are doing. BMS new CEO was an honorable mentor
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: at ETA our Mentor of the Year in twenty twenty two.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: That Jay and Jay was an honorable mentor before so
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: many of the CEO and those companies where you see
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: the CEO or very senior B suite leaders like Jack
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: from Abby and others. When you see them leading the way,
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  Speaker 3: the men will follow. For lack of a better term,
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: they need robots. People need a roadmap to what inclusive
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: leadership looks like because they're going to emulate what they
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: see the leaders doing. And so that's our folks is
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: working with the leaders, encouraging them to get involved and
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: be lunterers, be sponsors, the allies. When you talk about
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  Speaker 3: the younger generation, when you asked about partnerships that we
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: are looking at, we're looking at a partnership specifically around
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  Speaker 3: new college graduates.
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  Speaker 1: When you're looking at policies or you're out there advocating,
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  Speaker 1: what would you say, are some of the primary ways
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  Speaker 1: you help women stay in the workforce. Are their programs
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  Speaker 1: around insurance or motherhood or healthcare that's very specific to women.
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  Speaker 1: Are their programs that I mean, you've brought this up before,
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  Speaker 1: but as it relates to being able to stay at
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the workplace, what are some of the more specific initiatives
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  Speaker 1: that help women do that.
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  Speaker 3: So the women's health and wellness piece is huge for us. Again,
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  Speaker 3: women are the majority of the health ecosystem workforce, and
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  Speaker 3: in order for them to do that, they have to
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: be healthy and well themselves. So it makes sense for
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: us to evolve into focusing on women's health and wellness.
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  Speaker 3: Our membership is most interested in are focusing on things
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  Speaker 3: like menopause and fertility. I just did our first European
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: Women's Health Equities summit sponsored by in the vardeny Is
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: to CATA and merk and roach, but the topics were
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  Speaker 3: all about women in research, the need to make sure
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  Speaker 3: that women are included more in research because we have
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  Speaker 3: so many traditionally male diseases where women are not including
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: the research. But then they give women these drugs that
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  Speaker 3: have only been touched on men and they have very
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: adverse effects, So that's a huge piece. Metopause is a
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: huge piece. So we have five generations in the workforce,
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: including baby boomers and even pre boomers and solo. The
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: menopause piece is huge and organizations need to understand that
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: and health challenges are related to that. Fertility is a
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: bigger and growing issue for some reason with younger women
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: and so having programs that fund the fertility programs and
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: things that they would need to make sure that women
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: are able to build their families is the other piece
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: that we are very focused on when we look at
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: women's health and wellness.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: So for my.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Audience, you know, we've got a lot of women, of course,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: but for people who want to know how to engage
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: with HbA, what's the best way to do that? What
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: are the three or four ways? Is it be a
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: corporate sponsor, is it being an ally, is it join
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: the organization? Get your people to participate in the workshops.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: What are the best.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Things and easiest ways to get involved if you haven't
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: been the first.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Thing of course, as a company, if you're a leader
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: of a company, we'd like you to become a corporate
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: partner because when you become a corporate partner, then it
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: gives your women members of your company the opportunity to
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: actually become a member and start participating in our events.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Now we have our Ambassador program, which is the internal
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: mentoring program. Women love that. We get all kinds of
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: data of how they got promoted after they went through
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: that Ambassador mentoring program. We have our program which is
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: for the more senior level women. But the whole program.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: The difference is that the coports are from across other companies.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: So we have a lot of programs that you can
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: participate in online. We want you to join the local chapters.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: The local chapters are critical. Women put their positions on
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: the local chapter. They need a committee. If they're the
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: vice president of the chapter or they become the chair,
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: they put that on their resume and that is really
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: leadership level experience that it's helped so many women get promoted.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: That is another very positive opportunity for women to get
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: engaged and build their own career development in advance. I'm
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: realizing still and now that I'm doing this on a
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: global scale, the challenges that women have globally in these
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: global markets are even more challenging than what women have
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: in the US. So quja there and I've loved it.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: And then finally, what's your greatest wish for women in
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: health in the next twenty years?
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: My greatest wish for women and health in the next
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: twenty years is that they would realize how important and
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: valuable they are. And yes, it is a very difficult
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: industry and there are a lot of challenges. And I
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: say it to women in most of my talks, the
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: world needs us, The world needs women in healthep the
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: world needs. It's not an option, there's and so to
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: help them understand that. And I know it's I know
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: it's hard, but find your niche find what works for
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: you and stick with it because the world needs us,
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: your your next generation needs you to stay in healthcare
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: and help advantage to the next level.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Ah Man, great way to finish it up. Thanks so
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: much for being here. Hey everyone, thanks for listening in today.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: The Get Real with the Chairman podcast is a production
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: of real chemistry. I want to thank my team, led
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: by executive producer k Loss, audio engineer Nick Murphy, and
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: composer Mattle Diipkins, and special thanks to Danielle Clark Brown
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: and the amazing team have real chemistry.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: If you like where you're heard, don't forget to review our.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen. Also, please
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss an episode. Again,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: thanks for listening and we'll see you on the road.