Latest / Conservation Stories / Biochar, BioNectar, and the Backyard: Microbes That Scale

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Biochar, BioNectar, and the Backyard: Microbes That Scale · Conservation Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:07
  Speaker B: It's me, Tillery, Tim, and Sims back again for another episode of Conservation Stories. We're here at the Jackalope Creative Studio in Lubbock, Texas, and I have with me today a repeat guest. This is true, Sarah Burnett.
• 0:24
  Speaker A: Hello.
• 0:25
  Speaker B: So we are going to visit today about some updates on Sarah's product, but before we do so, if you. You can go back and listen to, actually probably one of our first podcasts that we did. I think it's within the first, like, 10 at least. Was Sarah talking about her dad? Biological. Like he was thinking about microbes, when I think most people didn't even believe we have microbes.
• 0:51
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 0:51
  Speaker B: You know, and so he's kind of, you know, that whole everybody thinks you're crazy kind of thing.
• 0:58
  Speaker A: 100. He was doing it before. It was cool.
• 1:01
  Speaker B: Right. So I tell people way back.
• 1:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. Way ahead of the curve. And lots of people since then have told me that, like, I remember your dad, and I just didn't know what he was talking about then. And now here we are. This is our 21st year in business. That's amazing. I know, right? We were in Brownfield, and then in 2016, moved to our location outside of Adalu. You can't miss this. We're between the Palm Room and Bozeman Tire.
• 1:25
  Speaker B: There you go. The Palm Room, which is like a landmark, right? I love a county landmark.
• 1:32
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Can't miss it.
• 1:34
  Speaker B: Oh, gosh, that's so funny. Well, what in particular I remember from our. Our previous podcast was that my. My word for the year that. The year I met you was microbes.
• 1:47
  Speaker A: That's it. Yeah.
• 1:49
  Speaker B: So. And it kind of started me on a strange journey that has led me to where I am today.
• 1:55
  Speaker A: I feel like it's all been good, but it has been windy. It has been.
• 2:01
  Speaker B: It has been windy. And you were on a lonely path.
• 2:04
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 2:04
  Speaker B: And now you're on a very crowded.
• 2:07
  Speaker A: Path with certainly people that have legit.
• 2:10
  Speaker B: Products and people that do not have legitimate products.
• 2:13
  Speaker A: Right. Yep.
• 2:14
  Speaker B: And that's kind of what brings us here, because you have. You had a partnership with Agrillis, and I will let you kind of give us some info on that, because the results of what you guys did this year are pretty astounding.
• 2:28
  Speaker A: Well, thank you. Yeah. It's partnered with Agrelis through their Proving Ground grant program. So, first of all, Agrelis, if you don't know Agrelis Farm, you can check them out. They are essentially an online marketplace, so you can put in a bid as a grower and. And then People can respond with different prices and you kind of get to shop around a little bit. So it's not quite a fbn, it's not quite Amazon. It's kind of somewhere in between. The cool thing about vendors is that it for vendors is that it opens up a new footprint. You know, I might not be able to reach somebody in West Virginia, but now I could if I fit within, you know, what they were looking for. So it's a great partnership. They came alongside with the proving ground platform which basically for them to say that your product meets all of their meets all of your guidelines and standards that you met your product guarantees. And they go through a very rigorous third party testing. And so I wanted to test bionectar Dry in that way. And bionectar Dry is our microbial package that comes with two different types of carbon. And you're able to add microbes to really any soil type, any you know, irrigation type, and just tank mix it in with your normal fertilizers. Right. So it's very a plug and play type product, but just really gives that soil the extra boost that it needs from a microbial standpoint. Something really special about BioNectar Dry is that it has both bacterial and fungal strains in it which are unique to a lot of microbial products. And also it's going to be shelf stable. So our liquid product is Bionector Liquid. We were super creative when we named that one as well. Yeah. And so it is a liquid biological inoculant LVI as they call it. They come up with all these new names all the time just to try to set themselves apart. But basically we're all in the compost tea category. And so from the BioNectar liquid is how we created Bionectar Dry. So same family of products, same essential idea, but the dry really solves a problem for a lot of people because they don't want to ship so called liquid across the United States.
• 4:46
  Speaker B: Right.
• 4:46
  Speaker A: Or it's hard to handle or you know, so this completely water soluble powder just sort of checked all the boxes.
• 4:53
  Speaker B: Right, right.
• 4:54
  Speaker A: We've had it in our catalog for somewhere in the neighborhood of about 10 years now, but really had a challenge on finding somebody to test it. I think third party testing is a huge chasm of weakness, if you will, in agriculture. You know, you can have be the big boys and pay the big bucks and do your own trials or you can partner with the university. But third party trials are really special because you push the product to them and you say, hey, Here you go. And then six months later you get a report. So it's a little bit scary because really and truly.
• 5:30
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 5:30
  Speaker A: It is what it is.
• 5:31
  Speaker B: Yeah. You're just, they're just going to give you the. And, and for a proving ground is really their way to screen correct the products that grow onto a girl Stop farm. And so they're, they don't want to be selling something that is not a legitimate product.
• 5:50
  Speaker A: Correct. It's definitely their vetted stamp of approval. It's very rigorous. The report I got back was like 125 pages. Yeah. It was a lot of data. And we tracked, they tracked like anything from PLF, PLFAs, microbiometer results to NPK soil analysis, gram positive and negative fungi. I mean it was very diverse in all the data that they pulled. And there's really no way for us to, you know, dig into all that today by any means. But it was exciting when they came back to us with the results. And I'm just very fortunate to have partnered with Agrelis because they really do believe in small businesses. And if people in our community stop shopping with small family owned businesses.
• 6:39
  Speaker B: Right, right.
• 6:41
  Speaker A: Our communities are going to fail.
• 6:43
  Speaker B: Right.
• 6:43
  Speaker A: Like from the inside out. So I'm super thankful that they saw value in what we were doing.
• 6:48
  Speaker B: Yeah. And, and I think the thing to you know, think about like your smoke local small businesses is they are loyal to, to places that they're in. And, and so it's more, it's more than just the money that they make. It's that this is where they're rooted. And I mean we saw this. I remember when a certain large store chain that starts in a W came into all of our little communities. Right. And everybody was like, it's going to put everybody out of business. And sure enough, put everybody out of business. And then when they weren't making enough money, they just left.
• 7:26
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 7:26
  Speaker B: So now you have this dilapidated building in town and you know, I saw.
• 7:34
  Speaker A: Her with a hole to fill that. Yeah. And then you have all the dollar generals and things coming in. If we're not supposed to say that, I guess you can just cut that out. But you know, name naming names sometimes.
• 7:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, I know.
• 7:45
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 7:45
  Speaker B: So like that's the scourge of the south.
• 7:48
  Speaker A: It's something.
• 7:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:50
  Speaker A: No, it serves a purpose. But there is a, there is a hole there in our communities. But there's going to be more holes and more empty stor on downtown, you know, squares and more, you know, metal buildings that need to be filled up if, if we don't really pay attention to the, the community and the commerce going on in our communities. And you know, I could name probably five or six family owned businesses that are still operating in the agricultural sector. You know that I just know. But there's not many left. So I count myself lucky that we're still here and functioning after 21 years and our goal hasn't changed. To heal the soils of the earth and to find the people that need us.
• 8:31
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 8:32
  Speaker A: And so it's been really enormous blessing.
• 8:36
  Speaker B: Well and it's got to be super gratifying because I know the little bit that you have told me about the results, it's just what it took a.
• 8:45
  Speaker A: Few days to absorb kind of what they told me and to look through some of their data. And I mean in full disclosure, I don't know that I have field every. You know, in this entire 120 some page report. But the highlights are it checked all the boxes.
• 9:03
  Speaker B: Okay, but before we talk about it, let's also go like this is like you did not know where this was going to be used. You did not know on what commodity or specialty crop it would be. You didn't know. Did you know any of that?
• 9:16
  Speaker A: The only thing I knew is that they said well the conversation started out do you think you want to put it on? And I thought well, you know, specialty crops are probably not. It's. It can go on anything but the time of the year and planning sort of lend itself to something a little more specialty. And so I just kind of pulled a crop out of the air and said find us some watermelons.
• 9:38
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 9:39
  Speaker A: And they said okay. And we didn't know where it was. I mean so it was very much just sort of a.
• 9:45
  Speaker B: And does the, did the farmer know what product they were going to be given to use? Because it was. It used on a farm.
• 9:52
  Speaker A: It was used on a farm.
• 9:53
  Speaker B: Right.
• 9:54
  Speaker A: It was a 46 acre watermelon farm. Turns out that was in Samson County, North Carolina.
• 9:59
  Speaker B: Okay, right.
• 10:00
  Speaker A: Who knew? And that turns that county is the most productive agricultural county in the entire state of North Carolina. They grow every commodity North Carolina produces except Christmas trees. So what Very diverse. Very.
• 10:14
  Speaker B: Wow, what an interesting place it is.
• 10:17
  Speaker A: I would love to go there.
• 10:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 10:19
  Speaker A: Just knowledgeable farmers that have a lot of experience. So this wasn't their first rodeo.
• 10:23
  Speaker B: Right, right.
• 10:24
  Speaker A: And the way it worked is that they worked with a agronomy firm there on field infield agronomist. And those folks are the ones that executed the trial and gathered all the data. So we have several steps here between me and the results, which is good. That's what you want. That's why this works. And compiled the results and it was really. It was exciting, like, so sometimes you don't want to. I'm a little modest, I guess. I don't.
• 10:50
  Speaker B: Well, we're here. Drum roll. Increase in yields.
• 10:56
  Speaker A: 46.8%. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, it was, it was great. And so basically I brought my little notes today because I'm a note taker, but. So, yeah, we can talk about details. But essentially it was. It helped the soil function better from a microbial standpoint. There was higher fungal ratios than bacterial, which is not what you find around here. Right. So their soil is a little bit different, but it's still.
• 11:26
  Speaker B: Right.
• 11:26
  Speaker A: Conventionally farmed. This was a dry land watermelon operation. It was a wet year. You have to take into account those things.
• 11:36
  Speaker B: But it was. You're. They're not looking at my yields from the past. They're looking at a control.
• 11:41
  Speaker A: Yes, correct.
• 11:42
  Speaker B: Right. So you got one. You got one side of the field where there's no bionectar dry bit on, and then the other side where you have 46% more yield. So it did increase the size of the melons.
• 11:55
  Speaker A: Yes, it did. And it was not so much in length, but it was in melon uniformity.
• 12:01
  Speaker B: Oh, interesting.
• 12:02
  Speaker A: Right, huh. And also pounds per acre. And that's really where the big difference came in. And it was like the. I can even tell you the difference in pounds or bushels per acre was 813 pounds per acre.
• 12:21
  Speaker B: More.
• 12:22
  Speaker A: More. So the control melons were about 20 pounds. These in the treatment were 20 to 23 pounds. Yeah. The grower was remiss because he didn't evidently have a premium contract, but he could have sold them for. He could have. So we could have gained even more dollars. But yeah, essentially it was. It increased the yield per acre, it improved the soil function. And it also. And there was, like I said, the report was huge, but created more plant available nutrients. So it was wonderful to see all those positive boxes checked.
• 12:59
  Speaker B: Wow. So, you know, I know this, this has been such a hard year for everybody and I can imagine, like, for you guys, because people are constantly trying to, like, cut back on inputs. And from the conversations that, that I've had with you and other people that are using your product, it's like this is actually. It actually, at the end of the day, can be actually helping you like, decrease those input cost.
• 13:32
  Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Um, they gave me the list of other things that they put on this trial, and it was quite large. I mean, their standard program on a conventional watermelon requires lots of applications of weed control or fungicides or whatever the case may be. And, you know, I think that if they had let us or known more about it, we could have maybe reduced or controlled some of those. But absolutely, microbes are there to convert plant avail or, you know, to make plant available atmospheric nitrogen and a plant available nitrogen. They're having this exchange at the root zone of, you know, the mycelia creep out and create this beautiful kind of cohesive connection amongst the soil and the plants there. And they're sending out, oh, I need some more potassium or I need more phosphate. It's just this communication system under the soil, root exudates and amino acids and fatty acids and it's just beautiful. God designed it, so it is wonderful.
• 14:33
  Speaker B: It is crazy to me and I think a lot of times, like, knowing more and every once in a while, you know, Facebook reads your mind. And yes, it sees. Sadly, all of a sudden you see something you've been thinking about, you know, and so I see a lot of stuff, new articles and stuff coming out from science magazines about, do trees talk to each other and totally do. Oh, my gosh. And I was, I went, you know, a couple of years ago with. With Tall to. We were in the redw, which is just like this spiritual experience.
• 15:03
  Speaker A: Unbelievable. Right?
• 15:05
  Speaker B: And. And then I, I, when I was there, I kept thinking about C.S. lewis's books and the trees that talk to each other. And I'm just. I don't know, it's. It's where we always want things to be simple. And my goodness. The thing that you think is the simplest is like the closer you look at it, the more complex it is.
• 15:25
  Speaker A: I think about the soil is deeper than the ocean and water than the sky.
• 15:31
  Speaker B: Yes, I can see that. Yeah.
• 15:33
  Speaker A: It is so diverse. It is so unique. What works here doesn't work over there. You know, we have what they call native bacteria, like things that only grow here. But, you know, if you're going to put Bionectar dry, it seems to work wherever it goes. So there's some universal truths when it comes to microbial products. And then, you know, you kind of got to know what you're shopping for and know what you need. But very, very tiny, like probably. And you can't quote me because I don't know exactly, but like, less than 1% of all fungal strains have been typed Right. For function.
• 16:04
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 16:04
  Speaker A: So it's also another conversation we could have of how does. How does the government or a certifier know if something's beneficial or not? Because there's really no data on it.
• 16:14
  Speaker B: Right, Right. I remember our mutual friend Mary.
• 16:19
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 16:21
  Speaker B: Says, like, she could spend her entire life studying, like, maybe two microbes and not. And still not understand, correct them fully of how they function.
• 16:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. And so there's much more information on bacterial strains than they're all fungal strains.
• 16:36
  Speaker B: Well, which makes sense.
• 16:37
  Speaker A: Yeah. I can see. Well, bacterial are going to be more of the decomposers and digesters and the more anaerobic type, you know, behaviors, if you will. So.
• 16:49
  Speaker B: No, because now we have people that will tell us they don't know what that means. So.
• 16:54
  Speaker A: Okay, so anaerobic is without oxygen.
• 16:57
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 16:58
  Speaker A: Aerobic is with oxygen.
• 17:00
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 17:01
  Speaker A: And then there's a little family that lives in the middle called facultative, and they kind of can go back and forth in that environment. When I think about microbial products, I want them to be alive because I'm putting them on a live system. Right. So why would I want to hang out in just the anaerobic? They serve a purpose, certainly. I mean, you don't want to go without. But a more robust, complete product is going to have a more broad profile of both and then all three categories.
• 17:28
  Speaker B: So you're saying it in these two, with or without oxygen, There's a whole list of microbial families that are in each one of these.
• 17:35
  Speaker A: Oh, yes, certainly. That I couldn't even begin to dive into today without, you know, chat and Google and a couple hours. But it, it. Yeah, it's. It's a lot take in, but you just have to know the basics. Like, if you want. If you're putting something that's alive on a system that's alive. That seems to make sense to me. Just like we're alive, we're right. We're aerobic.
• 17:57
  Speaker B: Right.
• 17:57
  Speaker A: Right. We need live, positive things. You can also think of the soul as a. As being similar to your gut. Microbiome isn't that.
• 18:06
  Speaker B: But. And what this is, what fascinates me about your dad is that he saw that connection in like 1970 something.
• 18:14
  Speaker A: You have a very good memory. Yes.
• 18:15
  Speaker B: And did his master's thesis on something similar.
• 18:19
  Speaker A: So he was getting his master's degree in ruminant nutrition at Texas Tech and wrote his thesis. And in the thesis, he talks about feed and its relation to gut function in ruminant animals. And I think really that was sort of this, you know, eight ball Saying, hey, later, this is going to all make sense to you, you know, Right. God uses those, those things so intricately and so specifically. And, and so eventually, as he created Bionectar liquid in about 2002, 3, 4 was, was that timeframe that that's where it all came full circle is, hey, if we have healthier soil, it's going to grow a more nutrient dense plant, which is going to feed a healthier animal, which feeds a healthier person. And for him it was a mission field that that person would then serve the Lord and be part of the kingdom and, you know. Yeah, the circle. Yeah, the circle goes round. Yeah. So it's fun to be a part of what he perceived without even knowing it. So.
• 19:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it really is. To me, it's just amazing like how many, you know, it's, it's so, so often the people that are the ones that pioneer, they take the risk, they take the ridicule and often don't see the reward at the end of the day, you know, and I wonder, like, how do you, how do you go back and thank those people and make sure that like, you know, that they're recognized too? And, and I see those people around me now, I think that you're one of those same people that's just like out there, you know, and maybe like, hey, this is, this isn't like what everybody else is saying, you know, and maybe it's different, you know, and it's hard to continue to have those conversations sometimes without feeling just discouraged. And so I hope that, you know, like, that we, like, I appreciate, you know, all these different ideas and things that you've exposed me to, you know, and I don't always agree.
• 20:34
  Speaker A: We don't have to.
• 20:35
  Speaker B: We don't have.
• 20:36
  Speaker A: We don't always have.
• 20:37
  Speaker B: I know. That's the cool thing about it. I love it.
• 20:40
  Speaker A: We can have conversation without confrontation. Yes. And I wish more people.
• 20:46
  Speaker B: Yes, exactly, exactly.
• 20:47
  Speaker A: Because we're always learning. I'm learning. You teach me so much about all these water topics and all the things that you and hemp and your, your journey through, all the things you've been through. And it's just great that we can all contribute to the greater, the greater good and the greater knowledge and experience and exposure and all the things.
• 21:06
  Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
• 21:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. It's wild.
• 21:09
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• 21:48
  Speaker A: One interesting thing about this trial that we hadn't done before that he would have been super excited about is that this was a transition plant trial. So they took the little watermelons and their little baby roots. Yes. They activated the BioNectar dry and then dipped the roots and then planted them.
• 22:04
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 22:05
  Speaker A: Yeah, so it wasn't like this really technical application. It wasn't overwhelming. And then at bloom fruiting kind of stage, they went back just with a Foliar app over the top. So in total, the retail price of the grower was like $35.
• 22:23
  Speaker B: And it created 35 an acre.
• 22:26
  Speaker A: 35 an acre.
• 22:27
  Speaker B: And it created like I don't know what, what watermelon was selling for, but when you think about another. What did you say it was?
• 22:33
  Speaker A: It was 25 cents a pound. This is the report again, third party report. And the difference in revenue per acre was like 4, 600 or something. So I mean just numbers that are not commodity crop numbers but are comfortable and normal for special.
• 22:55
  Speaker B: Well, and. And he also didn't get the premium that he could have gotten.
• 22:59
  Speaker A: Yeah, and there's a lot of very variables too. I mean third party trials are great because I think they really take the, you know, did you manipulate exactly out of the equation. But also, you know, you're at the mercy of however the agronomist or the grower wants to execute or apply.
• 23:15
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 23:16
  Speaker A: And are they doing it correctly? You sure hope so. But it's. Gather usable data is a challenge for any small business. And you know, and it's more and.
• 23:26
  Speaker B: More important all the time.
• 23:27
  Speaker A: It is. Well, well, people say well what does it cost? What, what, what is it going to make? To me, you know, they're really not sometimes so interested in, in the other, you know, parallel benefits. But we're just here to educate people and we're not trying to run anybody else's race. We just want to create a good product that is affordable and available and is manufactured not only locally, but all of the ingredients are sourced domestically. So we don't have a lot of the price fluctuations that you're going to see with traditional NPK fertilizers through bigger vendors. So it does pay to shop local.
• 24:05
  Speaker B: So I know that you're. You're doing some work with, with Susan in Oklahoma.
• 24:15
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 24:16
  Speaker B: So tell us a little bit about. About her and what you're doing there. She's also a pioneering thing, thinker.
• 24:25
  Speaker A: Yes, she is. I call her the Queen of Oklahoma, but not. But not to her face.
• 24:31
  Speaker B: Susan Bergen. Yeah, we should say her last name.
• 24:34
  Speaker A: Just a super cool and creative businesswoman who has done many things in agriculture and seen the need for soil health and absolutely practice with what she preaches.
• 24:49
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:49
  Speaker A: And she is a cattle woman through and through, and I've been working with her on a biochar project. And so for those of us who.
• 24:59
  Speaker B: Do not know, I mean, people don't know what biochar is because it might be new to. That might be a new word to people.
• 25:06
  Speaker A: Well, please add to this definition, if I don't totally encapsulate it, but biochar is a organic material. So it could be cotton stalks, it could be pecan shells, it could be wood pallets, it could be fallen trees, it could be anything organic.
• 25:23
  Speaker B: Right.
• 25:24
  Speaker A: So that they essentially send through a machine, through the process of pyrolysis that heats it up at some.
• 25:32
  Speaker B: They're. They're burning at an ungodly like 1500.
• 25:38
  Speaker A: Degrees for so and so. And anyway, what it creates is this sort of charred biochar, biologically charred material that comes out in little pieces and parts and ash.
• 25:51
  Speaker B: Kind of like you would say, maybe kind of like that. It's hard, but it's hard. Charcoal.
• 25:56
  Speaker A: Charcoal, yeah.
• 25:57
  Speaker B: But that might be better description.
• 25:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, it has a lot of little spaces and nooks and crannies in it. And it is really good for improving water retention in your soil and adding organic matter. Well, the trick is it takes a long time to break down because of the material and the size and the shape. And so bionectar dry is being used to inoculate the biochar. So all these little nooks and crannies, we can apply biology that is going to help to break down the biochar quicker to become more plant available and be part of that ecosystem and break it down faster.
• 26:36
  Speaker B: Right. And biochar is like, it's new to us, but like, historically, it's pretty, pretty much an ancient type of fertilizer, I guess, so to speak. Like, I mean, you think there's records of it being used way, way back in time.
• 26:53
  Speaker A: I just pictured different cultures. Campfire. It's the. As long as there's been fire, there's been biochar of some, you know, Shape or form readily available. The trick with biochar is that it's really loose and it's hard to ship. So people are developing programs regionally for it.
• 27:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's what that'll have to be. Right.
• 27:12
  Speaker A: And so that's over in the Louisiana area and Arkansas and we have pecan biochar in South Texas. We have it. You know I know there's been some research on cotton stock biochar but I'm not as up to speed on that.
• 27:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we've. I think if I'm think thinking correctly I feel like maybe Binghams have done since some cotton stalks off for, for research on biochar. Yeah, yeah. I mean it really anything but. I know mesquite, you know, so there's a lot of things. But yes it is the, the setup of it has historically been expensive or it's expensive to ship and so it just hasn't been something that people have pursued. But I see what you're seeing is this increase in like smaller production model regional sources.
• 28:02
  Speaker A: Right, exactly. And I know there's some funds or have been historical go through the nrcs for biochar applications and it's kind of one, you know, one of those buzzwords that go around and yes, I hope it's here to stay but really our, our goal is to make it more plan available faster and that's right. Done through microbial inoculation like products like Bionectar dry or bionector liquid.
• 28:24
  Speaker B: So you've used that word twice. Inoculation. So help people understand what, what that means when you're talking about microbes and inoculating. Because I mean, what do you, what do you mean by that? What does that mean?
• 28:39
  Speaker A: For me it's adding biological products to a carrier that is going to go into the soil. So I have merged them, if you will. You know, you took your Elmer's glue and you stuck your. Yeah, right.
• 28:51
  Speaker B: Well, and it's like almost like Right. Where you hear that word too is in vaccines too. Like you're being inoculated against certain types adding strains. So you're adding strains to your body to fight strains to get your body to fight strain. So that's. I always when I hear people use that in the ag world, of course that's, those are the two that I connect together and I think especially with what you're talking about with biologicals, it's really very similar. I mean it's kind of the similar idea.
• 29:21
  Speaker A: So it's, it's also kind of a timesaver like I could take bionic or dry and liquefied and put it on foliar or put it through the subsurface strip or put it, you know, through a pivot and it could run with other things. But if I'm adding it to a carbon source.
• 29:35
  Speaker B: Right.
• 29:36
  Speaker A: Then it's a twofer. Right. So it's a good way to send it in where it has food, has time to break down and it's going to get to that root zone because.
• 29:46
  Speaker B: Carbon is the food. The carbon is the food for the plants. But the plants have to get. The microbes are breaking all that down and delivering. Yeah.
• 29:55
  Speaker A: And there's so many different kinds of carbon. I think people, they either don't know what carbon is or don't know what they have as carbon so well.
• 30:01
  Speaker B: And I think, what I think is interesting is that like when I first started learning about this, to understand like carbon always seems like this woo, woo, bad guy in the, in the sky that we're killing each other with. But it's actually like such a vital component to our lives.
• 30:17
  Speaker A: It is the number, it is the number one center of life. Carbon is the center of all living things. And it's kind of got poo pooed, if you will, because they people associate it with carbon credits and carbon credits or money and there's offsetting carbon credits with these large firms or companies and.
• 30:37
  Speaker B: You know, or car or we have too much carbon, the atmosphere and so we're destroying the world.
• 30:40
  Speaker A: And they took the exit where I'm, you know, I'm still going down the interstate. There's a lot of exits. Right. But you know, carbon can be powdered sugar, granular sugar, molasses, Leonard lignite, organic materials. Like there's tons of carbon sources. So you kind of have to brush all the extra stuff away and, and know that you need to be putting carbon into your soil. And you also want to consider what is the correct carbon to nitrogen ratio. And that's a conversation that some people want to have and some people don't want to have.
• 31:14
  Speaker B: Right.
• 31:15
  Speaker A: And you know, it's easy to add nitrogen. We have tons of sources of that. It's harder to add carbon. In talking about carbon and nitrogen ratios, the reason that you want to add too much nitrogen, synthetic nitrogen, to your soil ecosystem is because it makes the nitrogen fixers that are there organically sluggish.
• 31:38
  Speaker B: Oh, because I don't have to do so much work.
• 31:39
  Speaker A: That's correct, yeah. So this ecosystem that is innately designed to function on its own, that has layers and Levels of different, you know, contributors. It's like just dulling.
• 31:51
  Speaker B: It becomes dependent.
• 31:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:54
  Speaker B: Interesting.
• 31:55
  Speaker A: And you don't, we just don't want to overdo it because then you're throwing the system out of balance. And if that's one word I could really pin to Texas Earth, we're, we're about natural balance. And I think that we can take every category of producer and every method of producer and say, okay, how can we get the most out of what, what you're doing in your program? By adding some Right. Microbial food or microbial strains. Bionector and Bionector Dry are OMRI certified, but a vast majority of our customers are not organic producers.
• 32:30
  Speaker B: Yes, exactly.
• 32:30
  Speaker A: I think that's a kind of a misconception that if you're selling organic or natural products that you only help one category person.
• 32:38
  Speaker B: Right.
• 32:38
  Speaker A: And that is absolutely not right.
• 32:40
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, and I think that's, that goes back to some of the things that, you know, we, when you talk about region regenerative agriculture, it's like it has to be so place based and specific. And that's what I see about Texas Earth. It's like you're not just saying here's what you do in every situation. You're like looking at each one of these customers separately and their production methods and where they are.
• 33:08
  Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. This is not a one size fits all, but it is a product that everyone needs.
• 33:13
  Speaker B: Well, don't you think that that's kind of where you. I don't know. It seems like to me that, that if you looked at like what an overarching like understanding of what region means, it's just a more detailed management system.
• 33:33
  Speaker A: That's fair.
• 33:34
  Speaker B: Yes. Now it's not. And so I mean. And it can incorporate a lot of different things in it.
• 33:41
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And one thing too about small businesses, I'm kind of harping on that today. Evidently that's just like.
• 33:46
  Speaker B: It's on your mind.
• 33:47
  Speaker A: It's on my mind.
• 33:47
  Speaker B: Right. But it's a good thing to have.
• 33:48
  Speaker A: It is. Well, because it's just, it just matters to everybody. We're sitting in a small business right now doing this.
• 33:53
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 33:54
  Speaker A: There's all different kinds of businesses that contribute to the success of agriculture. And this is one type. Right. In addition to non profits like you know, Sand Hills area and others. But it is really interesting because our customers come to us and it's not. Here, here's a widget. I'm going to sell this widget off of the shelf because I have too many of Them we're not pushing anything on anybody. Which I feel like you might get that other places, but it's. Here's this holistic program. What are you doing already? How can we add to that? And what are the positive outcomes that we create? So everyone is their own unique case and situation. And we really want to develop personal relationships with people. And we have. And I mean, there's lots of folks that have. They just won't live without what we do, which I'm so thankful for.
• 34:44
  Speaker B: Well, and you guys, I mean, you've got customers all over. No, like we get food. If we get food from Costco, it's probably has bionectar on it.
• 34:52
  Speaker A: So. Yeah, historically, two years ago or in some past years, all of the Kirkland brand leafy greens had bionect winter liquid on them. Those come out of California.
• 35:03
  Speaker B: Right.
• 35:04
  Speaker A: We service dragon fruit, we service compost manufacturers, hops growers, traditional commodity crops. Peanuts, watermelon, cantaloupe, tomatoes. Love what we do, you know, Gardeners. Yes.
• 35:20
  Speaker B: Yeah. And that's. That is something too. Like people that are. That are not farming. Like, this is a product that is readily available. It's in idalou. It's easy to get. They can deliver it to your house even. And also, we haven't even talked about like the. What you have with your Bio Floof, which is like a cotton product.
• 35:39
  Speaker A: Oh, yes. Oh.
• 35:41
  Speaker B: And I think we did talk about that in the last one. But like if you are a home gardener and you want to reduce water use, this is like a peat moss, a replacement replacement for peat moss. But it also is inoculated. It is with microbes.
• 35:59
  Speaker A: She's hired. No. Yeah. So Bio Floof is a fuzzy cotton seed mill that we turned into a pellet and then we inoculated. And it has a little bit of mpk with it, but 328water holding capacity. So super low use rate and really holds the moisture in the soil for the aerobic function, you know.
• 36:21
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 36:22
  Speaker A: Yes. Need to survive. Maybe that's the. That's something that we should talk about. That's actually, you know what the three things are.
• 36:27
  Speaker B: Well, I'm assuming they need air and water and. But I don't know what the other thing. Carbon. I don't know.
• 36:32
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. Just like us. We have to eat, we have to breathe and so.
• 36:38
  Speaker B: So they eat the carbon and then what they are getting rid of.
• 36:45
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 36:45
  Speaker B: Is what the plant needs.
• 36:47
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. It's this beautiful exchange of, you know.
• 36:51
  Speaker B: I never thought I'd have so many Conversations about what things?
• 36:55
  Speaker A: Poop. Yes.
• 36:57
  Speaker B: Because it's the, because it's the same thing with like our, our fertilizers and all these things that it's natural, it's.
• 37:04
  Speaker A: What happens, it's part of the ecosystem. Yeah. So bug poop, worm poop, worm castings. I mean what's. You can say that nobody backs, nobody.
• 37:12
  Speaker B: Knows that it's actually worm poop, fat guano.
• 37:14
  Speaker A: We could just go all that.
• 37:17
  Speaker B: All these things that are like the waste stream that actually are not a waste.
• 37:22
  Speaker A: That's correct.
• 37:23
  Speaker B: They're not a waste.
• 37:24
  Speaker A: No, the design was nothing wasted. That's amazing. Yes, indeed. So it's very good. But yeah, that's amazing. All kinds of fun stuff. So.
• 37:33
  Speaker B: Well, what's next? You got anything big coming up or you're moving? We're moving into winter. People are harvesting around here and.
• 37:40
  Speaker A: Right. You know, so fortunately, because we do have dealers and distributors and customers in other states, we are able to support double cropping areas and so we're still kind of chugging. We're still chugging along, if you will, through the winter, which I'm so thankful for and planning for the spring and part, you know, developing our partnership with Agrellis, finding new dealers and outlets and just trying to reach as many people as we can and be as helpful as possible. Possible. Yep.
• 38:10
  Speaker B: Well, home gardeners, one more time also. This is also being used on golf courses.
• 38:15
  Speaker A: Oh yeah.
• 38:16
  Speaker B: So if you got grass, this is a great thing to put on your grass.
• 38:19
  Speaker A: So.
• 38:19
  Speaker B: And I have actually can I can tell you like I've put it in my. Like I'm forever forgetting to water the pot on my front porch. And so that's where I put my Val Floof and so that way it survives. Do you know how forgetting.
• 38:34
  Speaker A: So the way that all happened was that I was calling on a customer one day and they had a hanging basket that was just dead as a doornail. It was dry and I thought to myself, self, that would be smart if you put. I had like a very young baby at that time. I thought you should put a diaper in the bottom of that and it would retain all the water. And then this material comes to into my sort of atmosphere. And I thought I dreamed about it. I dreamed and you were there that day.
• 39:04
  Speaker B: I remember I was actually there when you walked in.
• 39:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yes, I said I dreamed about this material and in my dream I checked the water holding capacity and I added Pionectar dry to it and you and my sister were there. So we'll try it and it worked out exactly the same way in my dream. But it all started with a hanging basket that just. I could. I was like, what do you. How do you solve that? But the cool thing about Bio Floof is that it supports. Supports the cotton industry.
• 39:32
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 39:33
  Speaker A: It's been historically a byproduct or a waste stream. There's waste again.
• 39:36
  Speaker B: Right.
• 39:37
  Speaker A: And so now we can turn that into a really usable product. And. And now it's in actual potting soil blends through.
• 39:46
  Speaker B: I didn't know that.
• 39:48
  Speaker A: A big box manufacturer. And so it's growing and it has its own pathway and doing all kinds of fun stuff on its own. So it's just fun to really.
• 39:57
  Speaker B: That's awesome. Is it available somewhere locally?
• 39:59
  Speaker A: Sure, absolutely. You can buy really? You can just call them texasearth.com or you can shop growtexasearth.com right. And any size, any packaging. I'm just really here to help. But we're hoping to move that BioNectar dry and bio Floof into some.
• 40:16
  Speaker B: So what we maybe we need to do is put you on the schedule to come back in the spring and we might could even like do some demonstrations on how home gardeners can use.
• 40:25
  Speaker A: That'd be fun.
• 40:26
  Speaker B: Use that in their backyards and on their grass or. Well, whatever.
• 40:31
  Speaker A: Absolutely. I need again third party trial data. Like how do you create data for something that is a little bit out there? But one thing that has just been wild is the demand, the overseas demand, really. Nectar dry.
• 40:45
  Speaker B: Now I did see something on your LinkedIn about what you guys are doing.
• 40:50
  Speaker A: Yeah. So Bio Nectar Dry and Biofuel Loof, which also call Windmill W I n meal.
• 40:55
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 40:56
  Speaker A: Yes, supposedly. No, I'm just kidding. It's all good. But the uae.
• 41:03
  Speaker B: Yeah. Oh my gosh, what a great place for it to go.
• 41:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Because they are doing in all the municipalities, they're adding all of this luscious greenery and plants and turning their desert into this beautiful, you know, garden ecosystem. And we're gonna try and I think.
• 41:19
  Speaker B: Some of where they're getting their water from might be cleaned, produced water.
• 41:23
  Speaker A: I believe it is.
• 41:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, we might have talked about that some here on the plan. Yeah.
• 41:29
  Speaker A: But it's fun because, you know, natural solutions are. They're suitable for every situation which. Yeah. Makes it so universal and fun and.
• 41:39
  Speaker B: And it's not as off the wall anymore as it once was.
• 41:42
  Speaker A: No. And there are a lot of companies.
• 41:45
  Speaker B: There are. And people need, do need to be careful because you got to know what you're shopping. Shopping There is what we call snake oil, for sure.
• 41:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's not my favorite word, but it's true. A lot of startups, they're just looking to put out one.
• 41:58
  Speaker B: Well, and I've seen that. I mean, like, yeah, I, I'm seeing that. Like, you know, when I was in hemp, it was like one out of every third, you know, thousand people was like a legitimate. Not crook, you know, and, and I think, oh my gosh, I do think it is worse in hemp because of its association with people that have been breaking the law for a while, but also is bad in new industries. And so as like, this is what I would consider like a new industry. But also I see it like with, in produced water too. Everybody's got the widget. They do, it's going to fix it. And so it's really, this is why I think this is so important is for people to know that this is legitimate choice.
• 42:41
  Speaker A: It is. We've, I mean, being in business 21 years speaks volumes to. It does our history and the efficacy and, you know, our hearts for what we're doing. But, you know, I just encourage everybody to, to educate themselves about what they're shopping for and just be conscientious.
• 42:58
  Speaker B: You can shop online. TexasEarth.com yes.
• 43:02
  Speaker A: Or just call me. My phone number's on there.
• 43:04
  Speaker B: Okay, we'll share all that with you friends and thanks, Sarah.
• 43:07
  Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you, my friend. And for all you do for agriculture.
• 43:11
  Speaker B: Well, I just talk about it a lot.
• 43:15
  Speaker A: It takes people.
• 43:16
  Speaker B: I go around a lot and talk about, talk about it a lot. Want people to know the value that we can, we can bring and bring value here. So thanks for giving us your time today.
• 43:25
  Speaker A: It's my pleasure. Thank you for having us. You didn't ask the question.
• 43:30
  Speaker B: Oh, okay. Let me ask it right now. Yeah, so sometimes when I remember, I ask my guests the question, who do you admire and wish that other people knew about living dead.
• 43:45
  Speaker A: Living dead or otherwise. Otherwise. Well, I wish I would have gotten to really see my dad in this sort of time frame when it was not as foreign.
• 43:57
  Speaker B: Contentious.
• 43:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And to see what his approaches were. But there's a lot of things he would. Wouldn't have liked either about this day. But beyond my dad, which, you know, I still dream about a lot, is Jamie Winship.
• 44:10
  Speaker B: Jamie Winship.
• 44:11
  Speaker A: Jamie Winship.
• 44:12
  Speaker B: It sounds familiar.
• 44:13
  Speaker A: He is a former government employee whose purpose was to go into hostile Muslim nations and to basically.
• 44:31
  Speaker B: How do I.
• 44:31
  Speaker A: Want to say this? Infiltrate and dissipate and just figure out kind of what was going on in those areas. Hostile areas. Right. So started out as a police officer. Right. Ended up multiple countries. But what he discovered was he wanted to really help people find their true identity. Who, what did God make you? What does he call you? How. How can you know what, what it is that you're supposed to be doing and experience this one on one personal relationship with the creator. And it varied from different regions and religions. And anyway, his stories are unbelievable, but probably the biggest takeaway is that he talks about a scarcity versus a complete mindset and how we as Westerners generally live in a scarcity. It's competition. It's, you know, I have to take my own. I can't. There's not enough for anybody else. And really, a complete mindset is living knowing that you're provided for and there is enough. The resources are enough and you are enough.
• 45:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, fascinating.
• 45:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. And it's just beautiful. And it's something that I've been able to talk to Everly about, to not be graded just on, you know, the report card. And really, how do you function in life? And what is. How are those two approaches either, you know, life giving or depleting?
• 45:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 45:52
  Speaker A: And so anyway, Jamie Winship.
• 45:54
  Speaker B: It's the Jamie Winship.
• 45:56
  Speaker A: His business called Identity Exchange, and there's tons of videos on YouTube, but he's just somebody that always brings me a lot of joy.
• 46:02
  Speaker B: Thanks, friends, for joining us again for another episode of Conservation Stories. And we will see you again. Sa.