Latest / The Golden Chronicles / Episode 11: Communication- What'd You Say?!
Transcript
- Victoria: Hi, thank you for joining us on today's episode of The Golden Chronicles. I'm Victoria and I'm a baby boomer. Danielle: I'm Danielle, I'm the millennial. If you are listening for the first time, we'd like to say welcome. And if you're joining us on a regular occurrence, we'd like to say welcome back. Thanks for being here. Victoria: Hi Danielle. ⁓ Danielle: ⁓ Victoria: Welcome back. Okay, so in this episode, we're going to talk about communication. Danielle: Okay, so in this week's episode, we are going to talk about communication. miscommunications how happen. ⁓ We're going to tell some stories about learning communication understanding communication understanding what we need in communication, what communication works for us what communication doesn't. this episode isn't going to be about how to communicate perfectly, ⁓ it's going to be more about learning how to understand one another and why learning about communication and communication styles and all of that ⁓ is beneficial to our relationships as we're getting know one another. Victoria: Communication is quite important. ⁓ Danielle: going This is gonna be, I mean, if we haven't been communicating our whole lives, what have we been doing? So this is gonna be a good one. We are glad that you're here with us. We're glad that you're along on this conversation. Let's jump right in. Yeah, let's do it. Victoria: Dive in. All right, so you know we like to look up the definition of words. So the definition of communication, the act or process of using words, signs, behaviors express or exchange information, ideas, thoughts, ⁓ and feelings. Danielle: Nice. love it. We, a couple years ago, my mom, well, okay, well, my mom comes over to my house quite often. And sometimes she would just come over and literally I would open the door and she would just start a story. She would start telling me about, yeah, we would be like trying to get out of the house and she'd be like, Oh, did I tell you about Victoria: A long story. Danielle: what happened the last time I went to the grocery store and she's like telling me a story. She's like telling me a story about, whatever. And, um, which made which was really hard for me to like lock in and listen because I'm like trying to get out the door. I'm trying to grab, make sure I have my wallet, my keys, my phone, my water bottle, you know, all the things that we need. And my mom would just walk in and Victoria: The Kroger Chronicles. I'm sorry. Danielle: start communicating, right? But just start communicating away. And it was not effective because I was not able to hear her. And so had to communicate like, hey, I really just need a minute to settle in. As soon as we get in the car, as soon as I put that car in reverse, you can start telling me every story that you want to. But like, until we are out of the driveway, there are a million things that I need to think about before we move over. yeah, exactly. So, Victoria: Stop talking! ⁓ Danielle: understanding communication and understanding what we need in communication is so important. And We are continuing to learn so So just a little BTS for you guys and a little behind the scenes. something that we're still learning, something that we're still working through. And so we're excited to share it with you guys. This feels like a very vulnerable one because yeah, yeah. Victoria: I agree. Danielle: One of the big things that we were talking about this morning is the difference between hearing versus listening. we, We have like this brain dump document where we just put all of our ideas into. And I had like a little outline for this episode. And I was like, okay, mom, if you can go through the note and you can just pick out any brain dump item that has anything to do with communication. And so was like trying to tell her that. And Victoria: Thank you. Danielle: she was thinking about what I was saying as opposed to listening to what I was And I think that happens so ⁓ Victoria: Yeah, Danielle said I hide behind I'm a slow processor. But what determine is happening is I was ⁓ instead of ⁓ listening. Thinking is not a bad thing, when someone is trying to explain something to you, need put thinking ⁓ if you're not trying to think about what you're going to say when the person stops talking so you can make your comment. That wasn't my intention. I was thinking ⁓ what is she saying? ⁓ she gonna think I'm stupid? Because I'm not understanding. So all of those things I'm thinking about instead of just quieting my mind and listening. And once she explained that to me, even she was explaining to me, I was thinking. ⁓ And I wasn't really hearing. ⁓ So once I stopped thinking and started listening and understanding that there is a difference between the two and how important it is for me to not think but to listen, those are two active things. You're either thinking or you're listening. And so ⁓ can't, I can't do both. And I don't know if we should be trying to do both while someone is communicating with us. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: ⁓ Danielle: yeah, that is something that I feel like I do sometimes too. have to remind myself where I get I'm listening. Victoria: ⁓ Danielle: but I'm thinking about all of the things that you're saying. It's not like, like you just said, it's not like you're thinking about, anything else, but you're thinking about what I was saying, but then caught up thinking instead of actually listening. And I think that that happens to people where we're, we don't realize that we're not stopping to listen, I remember, um, You were going to pick up, Mira. my stepdaughter from school one day, And, ⁓ was telling you something about the process of how it was done. And then after I got done telling you, you were like, okay, then you asked a question that I just told you in my breakdown of. Victoria: Thanks. Danielle: how things would go. And I probably said that I don't think that you were listening. And you were like, I was listening, but I was thinking. Victoria: listening to that I was thinking and Danielle: I think what we had talked about was like being present in the moment And I was saying like, you're not in the moment. Mom was like, I am in the moment. I'm thinking about what you're saying. I'm thinking about, OK, I pull up and I, the mirror's going to come out or whatever it was. And I was like, yeah, but you're thinking. Victoria: I'm thinking about what you're saying. I'm thinking about, okay, I pulled up and you're sitting from out there, whatever it was. And as I kept thinking, Danielle: thinking about what we're talking about is different than actually listening. Victoria: thinking about what we're are in a society where we're doing multiple things at one time. I've had ⁓ verbiage, ⁓ multitasking. ⁓ Danielle: multitasking. Victoria: ⁓ and listening, ⁓ I'm not thinking that I'm multitasking, but I think it's just that Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: acquired. think we apply that. in ways that we should not or in areas that we should not. Danielle: ⁓ for sure. Victoria: so I think we need me anyway, I'm speaking for myself, I need back off of the multitasking thing be okay with doing one thing, ⁓ one step at a time. Yeah, Danielle: Yeah, which sometimes I feel that because life is too short. Like ⁓ I need to eat and walk. Victoria: ⁓ Danielle: mean, know, whatever. But I do think that we, we sometimes just need to focus on single tasking and ⁓ listening is one of the things that like Victoria: Yeah. Danielle: shouldn't be a ...now there are sometimes where we're like, you listening, ⁓ you're probably listening to this podcast while driving. ⁓ You can listen and drive you guys, that's fine. But ⁓ no, like, Communicating is one of those things that we should be single tasking communication, we should be multitasking communication all these other things that going on around us. Victoria: And also as a society, are we taught to communicate? Are we taught to listen and do just the listening and not the thinking? I've had to learn, not even relearn, ⁓ I've had to learn how to communicate appropriately for me Danielle: Yeah. Yeah, It's okay to single task sometimes. ⁓ And so. Victoria: Mm-hmm. I agree. ⁓ I think we could be more present ⁓ in the moment multitasking can be important. It isn't a bad thing. But I think we need to be mindful ⁓ of how it is affecting our communication with others. Danielle: if there's something that really needs to be communicated, you need to it your undivided attention and not multitask it. Which includes trying to prepare you're going to say. as opposed to just listening to what someone's saying. have you really heard what the person is saying? Probably not. We need to be listening. We need to be listening. Victoria: We need to be listening because we can hear, but Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: listening has to do with communication. Danielle: I think that is important that we use words. ⁓ it is very important to use our but is also important. think that we that we understand nonverbal body language, feel like our body gives off hints about what we're saying as well. And if we're a few distracted, then we're missing out on those things. Victoria: I was just thinking, can you listen ⁓ be angry ⁓ at the same time about what's said? Well, Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Victoria: I guess it depends what's being said. ⁓ Danielle: ⁓ no, think absolutely you can listen and be angry. the of listening is to understand. like someone something that's making you angry, you're not thinking about, okay, what I going to say? What's my You're listening because is triggering this anger? Give yourself time to listen what it is that they're pause for a second and then respond to what they're saying think ⁓ is even more important when you're angry, right? Because ⁓ when you're angry, your emotions and your reactions can get by that anger and then you're just being rash you're reacting as opposed to responding to what's actually around you and then you realize, ⁓ I was angry and because of my anger I let it cloud my judgment and I completely missed what you were saying. Victoria: I think also you say this quite a bit about clarity. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: So when the person after the person stops speaking, we can say, okay, so what I'm hearing say is. ⁓ Danielle: ⁓ yeah, that's a great, I think that's great. If more people communicated like that, like we would have so many less misunderstandings. ⁓ but I think there's something that you need clarity on, absolutely, I think. Clarifying what it is that you heard is important Also space to process. That's something that we've had so many discussions about. It's like not everyone communicates or processes the same way. In the last couple of episodes, we've talked a lot about communication styles. understanding that like your communication style might. different than my communication style and that's something that we are ⁓ processing style is different than my processing style so understanding that that ⁓ all is a part of communication. ⁓ It's not saying words it's also understanding that you're processing and that I'm processing or that ⁓ handle it differently than I handle or you communicate differently than I communicate. Victoria: I think also you said earlier that about five years ago is when I began to understand that Danielle: You're Victoria: ⁓ I realized that I need to change the way I communicate. Danielle: Yeah. I don't know if it was like, need change way that I communicate or if it was just in your healing journey in your healed girl era, you know, that you ⁓ started realizing that. ⁓ Victoria: Yeah. Yeah, that's when I started realizing it was a gradual, come a long way, but it's been five years and ⁓ have been communications that have gone awry because and I still, was going to say, because I hadn't arrived, but I don't mean it like that. ⁓ I'm further in that journey. And I think that if we could be of the fact that I did not know that I had a problem until I knew I had a ⁓ so Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Victoria: it's important that we know ourselves ⁓ so that we can. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: step back and look at ourselves and say, whoa, wait a minute, you shouldn't have said that, you shouldn't have responded that way, you need to be mindful of what you're saying, you can hurt someone, you can't take that back. But until you get to that point, you don't even know that you need to be at that point. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: ⁓ So I used to blow ⁓ up when things got, when thought that I was being taken advantage of. And it really, I think it came down to not really listening to what was being said and having my own misunderstanding as to what had happened. I can remember I went to physical therapist and the girl who was working there made a mistake and ⁓ I blew ⁓ up. I was hearing, but I wasn't listening. And then Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: one of the girls that worked in office who I knew she knew what she was talking about, she said, yeah, the mistake is yours. She wasn't rude or disrespectful, but when said it, right away, I knew she was telling the truth, but I'm just confused at. how I communicated with them how my hearing wasn't equaling listening Because listening is for understanding. Danielle: Yeah. Hang on, I'm just going look it up. So since we love looking up words here, let's just take a pause and look up definition So that way when we're saying these things that we're all on the same page here. So hearing is the passive physical process of perceiving sound waves with the ears. Listening is the active conscious and learned skill of interpreting, understanding and responding to sounds. ⁓ Yes. ⁓ Yeah. Victoria: Thank you. Danielle: So hearing happens automatically, whereas listening requires focus and empathy and motivation to make of ⁓ what's being said, what's being heard. ⁓ Victoria: Okay. So I definitely had an issue And I think, so five years ago, I began to question Danielle: Yes. Victoria: my which helped me to understand that, I'm not listening. Greed is a weird thing. Danielle: grief is a weird thing, right? ⁓ my mom's been kind of relationship with my dad and of them ⁓ we're terrible communicators, but I don't think that, she realized it she started learning about communication. Right. And so, ⁓ you're saying that it's to know yourself and to know what you need. ⁓ And I think understanding your communication style and understanding the style of others and understanding. what you need in communication and how you want to be communicated to and how you want to be communicated with are important things that we have to do on our own, right? They're important steps that we have to take. think that Victoria: think that being understood starts with understanding. Danielle: understood ⁓ starts with understanding first. my mom was telling me story about her and my dad and where like communication down and she said, I don't feel like he understood me. ⁓ And I was like, well, how could he understand you if you didn't even have an understanding of Like what? If you can't understand yourself, And there are some people who are paid ⁓ to do that. Thank you Mary Katherine. ⁓ Victoria: Thank you, you, Justine. Danielle: Mary Katherine is my therapist, so thank you for being paid to sort out myself when I don't know myself, but to expect your partner to have this understanding of you that you aren't even able to get. And sometimes there are really beautiful relationships where... people are able to see you even when you're not able to see yourself and that's really beautiful. But also like you ⁓ who've been with you since the beginning can't even grasp yourself, you know? And so I think that's important when we're communicating being mindful of like, okay, I'm holding them to the standard of communicating with me. But am I? communicatable with? You know, am I open to communication? Are they trying to communicate with me? Am I paying attention? Am I being mindful of the ways that they're trying to communicate with me? Am open to the ways that they're trying to communicate with me? Do I know what I need Victoria: Yeah. Danielle: Do I know how I receive information? All of these things. So first is big step in communicating and understanding others and others understanding you, I think. Victoria: And along that same line, think we started learning about ⁓ person's love language, we began to understand what they needed to feel loved. ⁓ love language is words of affirmation and Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: physical touch. So. ⁓ you knowing that you're going to give me words of affirmation because you want to show me love. You're to hug me when we see each other and all of that. And I think that's the same way in communication. If we could pinpoint, ⁓ this person is that kind of communicator they need this in communication, just like we say, ⁓ they need that to filled loved. ⁓ And is the way I show love. ⁓ Then think that would. a lot of the problems of understanding how you yourself or me myself feel or I need when communicating to offer the other person what they need to communicate. our generation, we didn't go to counselors. But when it comes to what a person needs in a conversation or communication, don't know how that's resolved if we don't even know ourself as, ⁓ maybe there is a book that you... ⁓ There he is. ⁓ Danielle: Therapy. Therapy. Novel, I know. Victoria: ⁓ therapy? Yeah, Danielle: just being and being in a where we're curious ⁓ about ourselves ⁓ and what can make us, ⁓ I will say better, ⁓ Victoria: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Whole Danielle: we whole that's good word. Victoria: I listening to this podcast and I don't know if this relates, This come up in my mind several times in different situations. The in the podcast said that she ⁓ forgot that she belonged to herself. ⁓ Danielle: Rachel said that. She's amazing. Rooted It Exchange, she's great. ⁓ Victoria: Yeah, the rooted exchange. And when she said that, every time I think of it, my mind is blown and I'm still trying to process. Wow, forgot that I belong to myself. if own a car, I do own a car. Okay. So I'm gonna, only if.. gonna give that car what it needs. ⁓ I'm gonna know when that car needs gas or oil change. ⁓ Danielle: Only if Victoria: Well, okay, now I know to take my car to get an oil change. Danielle: Well, y'all. Okay, so this is going to be such a sidebar, y'all. month was that? Victoria: Maybe three months ago, four months ago? Danielle: So in, in February, my mom realized that she hadn't had an oil change ⁓ since April. Victoria: Since April y'all. But you know what? Danielle: April y'all. But you know what? That's how it be sometimes, even with ourselves. Sometimes Victoria: Yeah. Danielle: the ball we don't do the best job of taking care of ourselves in the same that you maybe you didn't do the best job of taking of your oil change ⁓ Victoria: And I think that we may ignore the signs that we haven't, that we don't know ourselves, we see the signs that we don't know ourselves, and we just don't know that that's a sign that we don't know ourselves. And we go into conversations just oblivious to what we need. And we end up. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: at the repair shop with a $300 auto repair. Unless you have a son-in-law who knows how to fix cars. Danielle: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Know thyself. Victoria: know thyself. Danielle: ⁓ Victoria: brief second. Danielle: We've said like a thousand times on this podcast, my mom an internal She time to think. ⁓ Victoria: And yes, do need time to think, but I learned today listen first and then the time to think. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: one of fears of getting older ⁓ is having dementia or Alzheimer's. So when I'm listening to communicating with me and I don't quite grasp it right away, my go from what they're saying to, my is this Alzheimer's? And I definitely can't Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: I can't listen to what saying because I'm Danielle: thinking. Victoria: thinking and it's fearful thinking. Danielle: Yeah. I think that sometimes we behind, not hide, but like we give our fears or our thoughts of, I'm an Victoria: given to? Danielle: processor, so, or I'm an processor, which I think you're just a you know, like sometimes you need to it out. Sometimes you need to think about it. ⁓ But I think sometimes you can get caught up processing or I need to process this as opposed to just like taking a moment to pause and listen. ⁓ Victoria: Because if I stop thinking and listen, I can hear what you are saying. But if I'm thinking, I'm not really listening to you. I'm listening to the thoughts in my head, which is definitely interfering with me ⁓ listening to what you're saying. Danielle: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Which very conducive for communicating. ⁓ Also, we've talked about how like I'm a very direct communicator. ⁓ like to be direct Victoria: Right, absolutely. Hehehehehe Danielle: sometimes I think that that could come across aggressive where it's not I'm not trying to come across as aggressive. I'm trying to be assertive and direct. as you've begun to understand how ⁓ I communicate, you're now able see hear, actually listen to what I'm saying Like you're able to understand that that's just my style of communication. That's to say that if I was being an asshole, ⁓ that you like. me out on it and I think that like someone saying well I'm just an aggressive communicator I'm just an aggressive direct communicator like that's an excuse for unhealthy behavior Victoria: some of the conversations your dad. I didn't shut down because I was listening or maybe I was hearing, I don't know. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: didn't want seem as though, ⁓ well, this my rebuttal to you said. ⁓ I wanted in what he was saying and what he was ⁓ but I didn't realize that I was an internal processor and that I needed time to process. So I just thought that I'll just leave that right where it is. I've heard what he said. take into consideration what he's requesting or what he's saying. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: really consider what has been said and be mindful of the fact. that that was said and I don't need to defend myself he's not attacking me Danielle: think a of our communication styles is our style as well, right? So like... Maybe you were being a little bit avoidant of conflict because you didn't want your whatever you were going to say to increase the conflict. Victoria: Maybe this is where flight comes into play. Yeah. Danielle: Yeah, our trauma responses, Those are, Victoria: Alright. Danielle: all things that we use. Yeah. Victoria: Definitely, definitely I would freeze, definitely. Danielle: that's another thing, like understanding how people respond to conflict. Like my husband ⁓ is not a conflict engager when it comes to dynamic, right? But I want resolution. You know, I want to, let's talk it out and let's get through it. know, like, not that I'm seeking out conflicts, but I'm like, okay, let's, we got to do it sometime. You know, we got to talk about it at some point, so let's talk about it now. Victoria: You know, I want to, let's talk it out, let's get through it, you know, like, now that I'm the, trying, I'm just seeking out conflicts, but I'm like, okay, let's, we gotta do it sometime, you know, we gotta talk about it at some point, so let's talk about it right now. Danielle: I think with you and if you had known what you needed, you would have been able to ask for that a little bit. And hopefully he would have been willing to you that communication or least your ideas about your communication. don't know. Victoria: you Danielle: I will say ⁓ one that we have learned, y'all we went to family therapy. and ⁓ wouldn't you know, Mom and Terrence are the same person, who ⁓ But that's what we learned. But what I was going to is ⁓ one of the big things in our relationship is we text a lot. And that is really great for staying in touch, but sometimes when need to communicate important things, Victoria: Wouldn't you know, a of internet users are the same person. Who knew? But, um, that's what learned. But what I was going say is... Danielle: you are not able to see language. You are not able to any kind of nonverbal communication out of a text message. And so it can escalate the number of we've had conflicts that have escalated text message. And then it's like, I think we're saying same thing, or I think you that. I was saying it this way not that way. note to everybody, texting is a terrible way of communicating when you need to important things. Victoria: ⁓ Difficult conversations should not be done. Danielle: Difficult conversations. And just there is a lot that's left out over written communication that you're able to get in face to face or voice conversation even. So, For me, obviously millennials love to text, but do feel like we really to talk about this, just give me a call. ⁓ have this real conversation and not figure it out and try to guess what the other person's saying and how they mean it when they said it that way or whatever. I know it takes me a time to of text message when I want someone to receive it the right way. Y'all, sometimes I have to put my text messages in chat GPT and I say, how does this come across? Because it's hard to know how someone's going to interpret it in text. And I know that chat is just a computer and so it's not about feelings or emotions, but it's been pretty good at saying, this might not come across the way that you want to in text. And so I'm able to kind of like, all right, how can I say this without it coming across that way in text message? But it is important that We are missing a lot of things in nonverbal communication. If we're just trying to text important conversations. Victoria: I would agree. I suggested that one generation writes a letter to the next generation. Danielle did not like my idea. I hope you like your idea. I like there's better ways to practice. Danielle: Something I didn't like your idea. just feel like there's better ways to put this in practice. yeah, let's also, I just recently saw this article and it was talking about the importance of having, this kind of sounds like a tangent, I promise it's not, I'm gonna land this plane, promise. Victoria: You Danielle: Having police. from the same neighborhood that they're policing or the same communities, not necessarily neighborhood, but the same communities that are policing because I'm going to use some like broad stereotypical of language in this section. So just bear with me because I'm, I'm making generalizations that just for the topic this conversation, we're like, you're from New York and you're loud and you're boisterous and got a little bit of a edge to what you're saying, but you're happy. You're not mad, but you're loud and it kind of comes off a little bit aggressive. ⁓ if a cop is working for NYPD, ⁓ he's from, somewhere in in Japan, like being allowed on the street is not a thing. Being allowed on public transportation is not a thing. If you go to New York, it's a completely different situation. with that example, if you Victoria: extreme. officer from Japan policing the streets of New York and has an interaction with someone and Danielle: an officer from Japan, policing the streets of New York and has an interaction with someone and they're loud and they're boisterous and their tone is a little bit aggressive. In the culture that says loud isn't acceptable, now you're having this interaction, now you think this person is mad and they're escalating and all this stuff Victoria: And that's where you have someone from New York who Danielle: where if you have someone from New York Victoria: they understand the culture, they understand communication. Danielle: they understand the culture, they understand the cultural communication. Victoria: But understanding that. Danielle: But understanding that the culture of the way that this person's communicating with me? understanding their communication style and understanding the history of their way of communication and ⁓ where their communication style comes from will just help us understand one another because now we're understanding that Victoria: your student. ⁓ Danielle: it's not your tone, it's just that like that's just how you talk, that's how your family talks, your family's Italian, they're really loud or whatever. And so Victoria: I think that is the same thing with the different generations. Yeah, Yeah, it's a different generations, Danielle: Yes, ⁓ yeah, that's that's where I was going with that. Victoria: and I'm not saying that millennials are loud and their tone is always bad or And I'm not saying that are that as well, but does a part in how person receives the other person is communicating. ⁓ Danielle: And so just having in the back of your mind is big part of communication, is understanding where a person is coming from how they're communicating. Victoria: It definitely takes work and I don't know, know that I've had to do the work and I have so much more work to do. And I just I just wonder if sometimes that's what ruins communication. Not understanding that you may need to change, not wanting to change, not thinking that you need to change. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah, I mean, that's kind of like a thread throughout anything. If someone's not in a place where they can acknowledge that they need change, then everything that we're talking about here is null and void, right? Until get to a place, whatever that catalyst is, where you realize that like, maybe I need to understand or maybe I need to change. Victoria: And our with the Golden Chronicles podcast ⁓ is have conversations that connect or reconnect ⁓ one to another. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah, well, and that's like our basis, right, but really connecting people with people, ⁓ starting with, you know, connecting our families and our generation and the generations. But with people with people is what we want. We want to be able to have stronger connections. Victoria: I agree with that. Danielle: you asking, can you be angry and listen? ⁓ And think that sometimes conflict isn't an automatic sign of a relationship. think that Arguing can be productive or conflict can be productive. ⁓ I think that conflict, there's a way to have a conflict that feels safe for everyone in it. Like I feel like you and I have and ⁓ both feel safe and secure in having conflicts. don't, I mean, sometimes it gets heated, y'all. Sometimes Victoria: And I think it's emotional for, I'm sure I would imagine it's emotional for you as well, Danielle, but it's emotional for me because ⁓ began to feel, ⁓ my God, I failed ⁓ Danielle: it gets heated. ⁓ B. Victoria: And ⁓ that doesn't need to be the case. I don't need to go there. It's a conversation. Sometimes conversations are messy and difficult and hard. But it's not saying that I as a mom or ⁓ not good person or whatever. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah, and that's like an important distinction to make. I think we talked about that in apologies as well. Like, conflict, Victoria: Like, how is it? Danielle: you're not a bad person because you are in conflict. Even if you make a mistake, it doesn't make a failure a parent or whatever, a failure as a child or disappointment, it just means that that's a growing pain and ⁓ we all have them and we're all working through them and it's just, okay, That was a difficult conversation and I still love you and we can still have a good relationship, a better relationship. Victoria: But. And So I was growing up, I never had conversations with my mom or my dad. Danielle: ⁓ Victoria: And that's why I did understand how to have a conversation. Because I mean, ⁓ you've talked to not that don't Danielle: Of course. Of course. Victoria: talk people. ⁓ Danielle: ⁓ It's just something that people feel like should be inherent, right? You should just know how to have a conversation, but that's not. These are, this is a learned skill, like having good and good communication is a learned skill ⁓ and. We have to continually work on it. And it's not just like, well, I learned how to communicate with you. So now I've learned how to communicate now. Now have to learn how to communicate with my husband. Now I have to learn how to communicate with my child. Now I have to learn how to communicate with every boss that I have. It's a thing that we're constantly learning and we're constantly growing in and Victoria: Right. Danielle: learning ⁓ what works and ⁓ what doesn't work. ⁓ And there are some things that I ⁓ don't think they work for anybody. ⁓ unhealthy communication habits that just need to unlearn that we've, you some of us have learned. Victoria: there are some people that, and ⁓ I've learned is there are some people you cannot communicate Danielle: ⁓ for sure. Victoria: whatever reason. They're just some people you can't communicate with. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: they just don't understand the basis of a conversation. ⁓ Danielle: Well, once again, it's a learned skill. And if some people haven't even come to the realization that they need to learn how to communicate, because I know how to talk, you know, but you don't, you know, I know how to, I can hear you. Okay. Yeah. But that's, it's gotta be more than that. And some people don't even have the understanding that they need to know how to communicate or that they need to learn how to listen. Victoria: Yeah. Danielle: They know how to talk. And so now they know how to communicate. And that's not always case. ⁓ we're talking about arguing and angry in communication we're learning that really the of communication needs to be trying to understand. And I will also say, And one of the things are working through and we're struggling is I feel like sometimes we're learning, as we're in our Healed Girl era, We, mom and I, sometimes over intellectualize what it is that we're going through. And so I think sometimes too there we do have to be mindful ⁓ getting caught up in understanding we're communicating and not just communicating. For example, this morning when we were going through the outline, when I was asking mom to look through the outline and I was saying, think that, I don't think that you're actually hearing what I'm Mom was like, okay, I think that I need more words, right? So she was able to stop in and say what she felt like she needed and understand what she needed. But I Victoria: think that you are caught in trying to understand what you Danielle: I think that you got caught in trying to understand what you needed, why you were feeling what you were feeling. And, and we had come to a resolution. then Victoria: I would agree. And we had a of... I stopped and said, don't think you're actually hearing this, saying you were able to say, okay, what is what you're saying? Danielle: I stopped and I said, I don't think that you're actually hearing what I'm saying. You were able to say, okay, what is it that you're saying? We were able to talk about it. We were able to get to where we were going, get the information that we needed. And then we were able to move on. But then we came back to it because you like, you wanted to understand, you wanted me to understand what it was that you needed. But I had taken all the things that I had learned to get us to the point where I was like, okay, pause. I don't think that you're hearing me, whatever. And so I think sometimes like we have to be mindful that we're not. I'm getting caught in over like trying to over understand and that we just accept win when it's a win and a win could be just the fact that we understand one another, right? Victoria: I take it all the things that I learned to get us to the point where I was going to be caught. so I think sometimes we have to be mindful that we're not getting caught in over, trying to over understand and that we just accept win when it's a win. And a win is. Danielle: or that overcame ⁓ whatever hurdle it was in a way that your needs were met and it was ⁓ think we have to be okay with with the resolution of it being that we were able to Victoria: the resolution. Danielle: that conversation, get to where we needed, and that we were able to continue moving forward. don't need to caught trying to understand But I think that... Victoria: acknowledging Danielle: acknowledging a resolution a resolution. Victoria: when resolution is a resolution. Danielle: So that the resolution. Victoria: That the resolution. Danielle: ⁓ we, know, we need acknowledge that, okay, that was easier than it has been the past And now on the other side what needed to be communicated was Victoria: think that communicating in ⁓ Danielle: I think that communicating in difficult moments can reveal the health of the relationship. And I think us being able to work through that shows working on a healthy relationship, that we were able to work through Victoria: Right. It wasn't a fight. I wasn't dragging her around with me. And we acknowledge that sometimes communications or conversations can be difficult. They can be uncomfortable. They can feel like ick but it doesn't mean that it's... Danielle: It was a point of conflict. Yeah, yeah. I wasn't dragging her around the living room by her ears. Yeah. Victoria: bad and that we should not push forward and have communication, have conversations. Danielle: Yes. Yeah, Once we're able to get on other side of the conflict, it can move us closer together. Victoria: my son-in-law, Corey and I to a party in a different state and we were traveling. And when I got in the car, I started talking about... some difficult situations that some family members were in And Corey said, you're causing me anxiety. ⁓ And got this deep kind of voice. And so it sound like. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: Victoria, you're causing me anxiety. It was like you're causing me anxiety. Everything that you said was anxiety causing. it felt uncomfortable. My point is conversations can feel uncomfortable. Corey being disrespectful. Corey communicates differently than I do. He communicates differently than ⁓ my did. And I'm ⁓ no, he didn't. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: But yes, he did and he should have because once he said that, I listened to what he said. I wasn't thinking. I was listening because it was so shocking to me. I had nothing to think about except to listen to what he was saying. But then I realized, ⁓ my God, he's right. that I did say would have caused a person to have anxiety and it wasn't, none of it was positive. Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Victoria: You know, and so I said all to sometimes conversations are uncomfortable. ⁓ But through that, he got know me a little better. I got to understand him a little better. ⁓ And I realized that I putting him in a place I didn't want to put him, I didn't want to cause him to have anxiety. And so I was mindful and wasn't biting my tongue. It was about understanding. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: how to have a conversation with Cory and not only just Cory, but with others. Should I have been saying all that? Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: spewing all of that negativity to anyone? So yeah, conversations can be messy. They can be difficult, but they are definitely ⁓ needed because I think in my mind, my opinion, think it improved my relationship with Cory. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: So. Danielle: healthy sometimes be It won't be perfect. Our earlier we hit our little bump wasn't perfect. It was messy. But I feel like we're both it. I feel like we're on the other side of at least that conversation and understanding in that conversation as well. Yes. ⁓ Victoria: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. even as been having this conversation ⁓ and as you're talking, I'm starting to think and I have to rein myself in and say, you're thinking, stop thinking, start listening. ⁓ So I mean, it's new. ⁓ What, like three hours old? ⁓ Yeah. Danielle: Yeah. Yeah, and that's something that I'm constantly having to do. I'm constantly having to remind myself to just stop thinking for a minute and just listen. I think it's ADHD brain because sometimes someone will be talking to me and my eyes will just start to glaze over. I'm thinking about a million other things. thinking about, wonder if they whiten their teeth. those kinds of things. And so I have to remind myself, like, okay, actually listen to what they're saying. Let's active listen. ⁓ Victoria: Now I have been in situations, and I do understand the act of listening, but I have found myself in situations a person is talking to me and they are talking and talking ⁓ talking ⁓ talking ⁓ they are barely taking a breath. ⁓ Danielle: Take a They're monologuing. Victoria: I would say yes, I would say their monologue, there was a woman that was speaking to me a couple of weeks ago and she was talking about one of her family members. very proud of her family member. I totally get that. And ⁓ just talked, and I'm not kidding, she talked for an hour nonstop. ⁓ I'm the type of person when I'm having a conversation with others, this is what I began to learn like five years ago when I started understanding this, ⁓ that I ask questions. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Victoria: So that because I do want to hear what they have to say, And I want them to understand that I'm interested, but I just don't know what to do with them talking for an hour nonstop. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah, that's hard because sometimes I don't know what to do with that either. I'm like, I need you to start reading my nonverbal communication. Victoria: sigh? Have you seen me looking around for an escape? ⁓ Danielle: Have you seen my eyes glaze over? Have you seen me looking around for an escape? ⁓ Victoria: You know how we were talking about listening and not hearing? ⁓ I'm thinking my head, ⁓ my god, ⁓ does she know she's talking an hour? ⁓ Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: ⁓ Stop talking! ⁓ Danielle: Yeah, so you hear that guys? If you could send us your best ways of getting out of a conversation. That has just gone on a loss. Yeah, your smoothest way of how to get out of a conversation that's just gone on for far too long. Great, thank you. Yeah, sometimes, yeah, I feel that too where I'm just like, how do I get out of this conversation? Or how do I change the subject because appreciate that they're Victoria: You're smooth as weight. Thank you. ⁓ Yeah. Danielle: sharing this information with me but like has been an hour and I cannot hear you tell me about your dog Sandy ⁓ all of its adventures for another moment. ⁓ Victoria: Yes, absolutely, Yeah. Right, know with my mom, I was just thinking that with my mom, ⁓ don't know, I can't remember us having Danielle: or something. Victoria: ⁓ but I can remember her giving. correction or, for lack of a better term, orders or instructions. But I don't remember us sitting down having a conversation until I remember the first conversation and it was very brief. I asked my mom, was probably, I don't know, 40ish, 38, both Danielle and Terrence had already been born. And I asked my mom, what would you do differently if you could do it all over again? And she said, I would spend more time with my family. Danielle: Yeah. Mm. Victoria: And so I think at that point, at that age, she might have been my age now, I'm 65, and maybe she thought about it and thought, if I could go back, would spend more time with my kids. But you it's hard. You live and you learn. Danielle: BAM! Yeah. You live and you learn. Speaking of the people who monologue, think that self-awareness is one of those things that really helps communication. There's a show called, I think it's the Later Daters. I think it's people over 50 who are like... Victoria: a show called Penetrate, right? Yes, I love that show. ⁓ Danielle: back on the dating scene or whatever. And one lady, she was a monologuer for sure. I find myself being a monologuer sometimes too, you guys, but the dating coach was like, you should try to be interested and not be interesting. And I think like that's Victoria: Me too. Danielle: active listening is being interested. I don't always to tell you that. coolest thing that I did and what's going on in my life and how cool my job is and how cool my kids are. and there's a time and a place for interesting as well and everybody wants to be interesting. think sometimes we just need to remember, let's be interested. ⁓ When it comes to communicating with other people, sometimes you just have to be interested and not interesting. Victoria: Right. Right. And I really appreciated hearing that. I think we all believe that we have an interesting story. Yeah, because we do. Right. think that's the movie. Danielle: Yeah, because we do, right? Like, that's the beauty. Everybody does have a really beautiful story, but... Victoria: But we don't have to always be the one that is interesting because the person that we're talking to is interesting as well. Danielle: Correct, yeah. Victoria: think ⁓ Danielle: I think We need to be intentional in our communication. Also considering our audience. So whether our audience is our mom or our kid or We're considering our audience. ⁓ Showing empathy for other viewpoints, like that's ⁓ effective communication. choosing appropriate moments to deliver your messages. not when you first walk in the door and I'm trying to get out the door. Like Victoria: You Danielle: being mindful of the timing and all stuff. So. ⁓ Victoria: And sometimes conversation can be ⁓ on purpose ⁓ it be that way. My son, brother. ⁓ So he was going a difficult time his and he would call me his way home from work he would do all the talking. Danielle: Oop, never heard of him. Which one is that? Victoria: But I would just listen and I to listen for understanding ⁓ so that I could comment in a in which was appropriate to what he was saying. So that we could have, even though he doing most the talking, we were still having a conversation. And I think the fact that I was ⁓ listening not thinking could say something that would be encouraging to him because I know who he is and what would encourage it. ⁓ So I'm not thinking, but I'm hearing, I'm listening I'm actively listening. Danielle: So that you could understand what he's going through so you can respond appropriately, which is a healthy way of communicating, for sure. Victoria: Right. And so when I do that, when I respond appropriately, he knows he's being heard. Yeah, agree. So, Danielle: Yeah, which is so important in communication. Victoria: Just, you I want to reiterate that sometimes conversations can trigger ⁓ us. it's, and Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: you tell me all the time that you can't me feel a certain way. And at first I didn't agree with that, but I understand that it's what has happened to me. It's my trauma that me to feel a certain way. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah, which of the things that we've learned about healthy communication ⁓ using statements, like I feel this way as opposed to you made me feel this way. Because ⁓ that'll put somebody on the defensive real quick. You made me feel this way. You did this. Like, that's not what I, that's not what I said or that's not how I said that or that's not what I meant. ⁓ But if you say, when you said this, ⁓ I felt this way, or I feel this way when this happens, or I feel this way when you communicate that way, or I feel this way when you don't communicate, then that's allowing the person to understand you as opposed to feeling like you're trying to tell them about themselves. Victoria: and trying to tell them about themselves. And it doesn't move us forward in our relationship if saying you make me feel, then I'm ⁓ bitter because you made me feel this way. ⁓ Instead just taking responsibility for it, I feel this way. ⁓ And not, she's not making me feel this way, there's something in me. So you take responsibility for that so that you don't ruin. Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. Victoria: the progress that you're making or that you can make with the conversation or through the conversation. Danielle: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And there are some things like manipulation and gaslighting and there are some things that we've said in the past that people can use communication as a weapon, right? There are some people who just suck. And those aren't the people that we're talking about. Victoria: Yeah. Danielle: once again, I don't to trivialize or minimize ⁓ the... ⁓ fact that sometimes people, like you said, sometimes you just can't communicate with people. You'll do all the right things. You've read all the books, you know, chat with me to the whole conversation and it doesn't matter what you say. They're still going to have their ideas and they're still going to respond to you out of their hurt and their trauma and their worldview or whatever. And sometimes it's just, I mean, it just is what it is. But for those of us who want to have healthy communications, like these are tools and lessons and stuff that we're learning about how to have healthy communications with one another. Victoria: Yeah. I had an acquaintance. ⁓ she was just that person who didn't wanna hear anything, they didn't want to acknowledge ⁓ anything that they had done wrong. ⁓ And felt that it was my responsibility to call her out ⁓ and point out what did. ⁓ Danielle: Okay. Yeah, she did. Victoria: But that didn't go over well for me. ⁓ And so that's when I began to understand that. Danielle: Yeah. Victoria: I don't need to have a conversation with her. know, hi, how are you doing? That kind of thing, that's fine. But as far as anything more than that, you just can't do it. ⁓ Danielle: Yeah. Sometimes you just can't communicate with people. Yeah. Yeah, you can. Some people don't need to be gentle parented. Some people just need to be punched in the throat. I'm just kidding. No, Victoria: I shouldn't have. Danielle: yeah. Yeah. disclaimer, disclaimer. ⁓ Legal, legal, Yeah, but. Victoria: do not advocate ⁓ This one. This ⁓ one. Thank you guys. Danielle: Um, thank you guys for joining us on this conversation about communication. We were learning and we, like I said, even some of these things that we've learned are only three hours old and so. Victoria: Hahaha! Yeah, that's Danielle: thanks for joining us Victoria: Thank ⁓ guys, thanks for us. ⁓ Danielle: in our living room ⁓ having these conversations with us. Yeah. ⁓ us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. It really helps us out if you really like us. We'd love for you to rate our podcast and also if you have a friend you feel like maybe doesn't communicate well, just shoot them this podcast. That could be a communication. No, but if you know someone who you think would really enjoy this podcast, we'd love it if you would share it with them as well. Victoria: And we would actually love to hear your comments, what you think about the podcast, if there's a a conversation that you would like for us discuss. Send us that information in the comments. We'd love to hear from you. Communicate! Yeah! Let us know what your needs are. This is a collaboration. But thank you guys for joining us. We'll talk to you next time. Bye! Danielle: Yeah. Yeah, communicate with us you guys. Let us know what your needs are. This is a collaboration. ⁓ But thank you guys for joining us. We'll talk to you next time. Bye. Hi guys, it's me again. 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