Latest / Skin Anarchy / Making Men’s Skincare More Manageable ft. TIEGE HANLEY founder, Kelley Thornton - E.515

Transcript

Making Men’s Skincare More Manageable ft. TIEGE HANLEY founder, Kelley Thornton - E.515 · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
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• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, so this is a very special episode.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: We're starting this series off because I think it is long overdue, and that is Men's Monday.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: So the reason for this series is because I have noticed there's a huge, huge gap in this industry.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Even with all of the efforts that are being done with, you know, really creating gender neutral skincare, creating, you know, options that can really be picked up by anybody and incorporated.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: I still feel like there are so many men that are left out when it comes to just getting their hands on skincare products and skin health products that really speak to them.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that this series is going to be really interesting because it's going to open a lot of um avenues for options in terms of options for men out there who can identify with these products.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think a lot of the consumer's experience is identifying with the packaging, identifying with the vision, the whole idea of the line that you're buying.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, when I think about brands like Axe, or in this episode, we're interviewing the wonderful um, you know, Tiege Henley uh skincare brand, it it really speaks to men because of the branding, because of all of the little, you know, nitty-gritty details that oftentimes we miss out on when we're just making everything gender neutral, you know, and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's a beautiful thing, but at the same time, there should be representation of the gender itself.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: So with that in mind, I thought that this would be a wonderful way for us to highlight such brands.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're a brand founder and you are creating a line that is focused on the male consumer and you really want to get your name out there, you want to, you know, explain your vision, your story, please reach out to us.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you can reach us very easily um at our email, which is just uh skincareanarchy at gmail.com, or you can email me directly, which is ecta e-k T A at Skincare Anarchy Podcast dot com.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you can also reach our PR team at the same PR at skincareanarchypodcast.com.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: But you know where to find us, is my point.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I really, really would love to make this a whole series and get it going because you know there we really need these options.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: So not gonna keep you much longer, let you get onto the show.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: I hope you really love it.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: And Kelly is a wonderful representative for this whole series, I think.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I really, really hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed speaking to him.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: So without further ado, I'm very excited to um introduce you guys to the founder of Tiege Handling Skincare, uh, Kelly Thornton.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the show, Kelly.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited to be hosting you.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Glad to be here.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Glad to represent you.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I'm glad you're here.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm really excited to dive into this topic because, like I said, it I think it's a very important one.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, um as much as I've tried, you know, just letting you know off the bat, I have a lot of uh male friends or colleagues, and I've always always tried to push skincare on them, you know.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: And as much as I try, there it's either gonna hit or miss.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's it's very hard even now, even with all the options out there, to really get men on board with this idea of, hey, you know, skin is universal.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: We need to protect ourselves.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: Let's really talk about it.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: So with that, I want I want to get started with learning all about you, Kelly.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: I I would love to learn about your background and your career and what led up to the brand.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I I just kind of come to the realization recently that I'm not your typical, you know, DTC startup.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh like I don't I don't think I fit that mold.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in my mid-50s.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is my third business, and um, you know, I love the digital space.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really passionate about you know bringing educating guys um on digital platforms and and helping them under understand skincare.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so but I I started uh I started in New York working um in the in the early 90s.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I got in the merchandising space.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was able to put myself through school with having you know a painting company and and had a lot of fun learning what it's like to own and run a business.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got into merchandising and in 19 early 90s, I was um I was asked to come and move to Chicago from New York uh by a great uh family-owned business, very successful family-owned business in New York.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I moved to Chicago and um I've been here for the last 30 years.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I continued in my career in merchandising and I helped big CPG companies.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: So all the big brands that that I'm sure you talk about and and the little brands too.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: I helped figure out in-store merchandising strategy for them.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And in 2009, I started my own business called Purchase Point, following in the same footsteps of understanding um how shoppers shop and retail, particularly for consumer goods um products and health and beauty.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I had that business for several years until I decided to launch Tiege Hanley.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we launched 2015 a V1 of Tiege Hanley.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: It failed really quickly, and we relaunched in the summer of 16.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And here we are today.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's awesome though that you've had such experience.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's really, really I love I love talking to founders that have that experience.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like, you know, after seeing so much, you can only do the right thing from there, you know, you start seeing all the white spaces.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: So um, I think that's really cool that you have that background and and you're so experienced, you know.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's like, you know, for for whoever is thinking about starting a business or maybe they are in a business, I don't think there's any right or wrong time.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think um, you know, starting have I have the benefit of having a lot of business experience.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's served me very, very well.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there are also, you know, there are also problems with that.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think if you're an entrepreneur out there thinking about starting a skincare company, um I think it's great starting if you're you know early in your career starting then.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: You you you have less encumbrances, less baggage um to um, you know, bring into think about why we can or can't do something.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all about being disruptive.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, when you start later in your career, you have all these experiences which are positive, but they certainly can be encumbrances.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we shouldn't do this because it's too difficult, or we know that doesn't work, or we know this doesn't work.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's good to just be a disruptor and be first, um, you know, the first mover in the space.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: I I couldn't agree more.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think that that's you know, it's a it's a job for the brave, you know, but it's something that needs to be, you know, somebody's gotta do it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I always think that the people who take that first step, I mean, you know, it it always leads to a wonderful thing.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: It always leads to, you know, making other people feel safe, right?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're providing this like example for people out there that may have had the an idea that can build off of what you've created.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's a wonderful point that you've made.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I encourage everybody, I think, you know, if you've got an idea, do it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, just don't wait, don't sit around thinking, oh, is anybody gonna like it?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: No, just do it.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: If someone likes it, great.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: If not, move on to the next one.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's uh you can only try.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I absolutely agree.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and it doesn't matter how young or how old you are.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, if you're really passionate about something and you really want to do it, I think you should do it.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Making that, you know, taking that first step is the hardest.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: We all have heard that many, many times from great leaders in business.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Taking that first step is really hard, but you gotta you gotta get out there, right?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't agree more.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I want to actually ask you, Kelly, because I I know that, you know, with with skincare products, it's you know, like I said, it's a battle, you know, getting men to not only try them, but adhere to a routine.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I really would love to talk to you about how um, in terms of this idea of creating a routine and you know, really being able to push that as a brand, you know, it's it's catered for men so they feel comfortable in the in the space of using it.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: How has that been for you?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what are some of the things that really were kept in mind from your end in terms of what you thought was missing and how you were going to fill that space, you know, for your consumer audience.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot, there's a lot to talk about there.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think, you know, when I looked at the category, um, I was always kind of realizing that I wasn't getting any younger and I wanted to do something about my, you know, I wanted to actually start my skincare journey.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but when I started looking at the category, you know, I realized that um it's it's really not, it wasn't, it's not very been very easy for guys to start.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's been pretty daunting.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the way that men have been marketed to um for many, many years prior to I think uh the last five, uh, you know, maybe seven, someone can argue, years.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: The when the way men have been are have been marketed to is is is almost like the way that I think you would perhaps, you know, big corporations would maybe think about marketing to women.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it just, you know, I don't think that really resonates.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, showing, you know, like showing a picture of Fabio with his shirt off and like a bucket of water, you know, spray, you know, sprinkled on his face.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's not gonna get any guy like uh like hey Lila, let's run out to Nordstrom's and getting, you know, see what's see what's going on in skincare.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at least not the masses of men, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think uh, you know, that for us that was kind of the that was the point is that we wanted to make it simple and approachable for guys.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we wanted to speak to guys in a way that we thought, you know, we we would want to be spoken to as a consumer.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I and so so that's why we've approached this as a system.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: We approach skincare for men in a in a routine as a system, and we approach it as um uncomplicated.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Our our company um strategy is um to be known as uncomplicated skincare for men.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um we talk about uh not only being uncomplicated in terms of a skincare routine, but we try to run our business with like an uncomplicated mentality.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think that that's very conducive to the male mindset from what I've noticed and and read, you know, from a psychology perspective.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's yeah, you know, I think I read in a book, um, it was a very long time ago, so excuse me for not remembering the exact name or title, but I remember reading that men are like more linear-based with with their thinking, and the way you, you know, approaching the a male mindset is very different than a female mindset, as we all know.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I feel like everyone knows that, but how often do we really sit down to figure out, well, what is the difference and where is that difference really, you know, making an impact in our habits, in our choices as consumers, you know, choices as people, you know, and our wellness choices.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: So that's very interesting to me overall is the psychology aspect, you know, about male just wellness, right?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Or in general, wellness products.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like, you know, it's been, I can't tell you how many years I was frustrated because I would always see men buying things like, you know, for example, um, you know, going into the ingestibles category for a second, you know, I'd seen men buying things like protein, right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Or like protein bars, but I'm like, well, why aren't any of you buying, you know, like vitamin supplements, like as much as women are, or like, you know, those kind of things.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: And you saw this, you know, you saw this trend.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: And the thing was, well, wellness kind of did the same thing where they didn't market to men for a long time, you know, they didn't talk about the vitamin D and the calcium and the you know, the vitamin B's and all of that, and it wasn't appealing.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I hear you, you know, when you say that you you really have to rethink the marketing strategy around.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, going and seeing a man going and seeing, you know, at a at a great, you know, department store, um, you know, like perhaps Nordstrom or in the older days, you know, the Marshall Fields in Chicago or or Macy's, maybe in New York, and seeing, you know, lab series, which is a great product, um, you know, from a great company, but with a hundred different SKUs for men.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just it's very complicated for a guy to to go in there and try to embark on a skincare journey.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And what you were asking before about, um, and and alluding to before about women trying to help men understand or embark in their journey in skincare, that that's a tough get too.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about that all the time.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as we talk about people that are new to our business, they they say, well, why don't we market to women?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, while I think you know there makes a lot of it makes a lot of sense, I think what you said before in the psychology is is I think it unlocks the answer to that, which is men have to want to engage in the category.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And just because my significant other is gonna bring something home for me to try, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm gonna stick with the category.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I really need as a man, I need to be concerned about my own personal health and and wellness and want to like make make a difference in what I'm doing and and embark in that journey myself.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I might be I might be invited in by by my my significant other or sister, brother, mother, but I really need to want to engage in the category.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so we think about that when we when we when we engage in our marketing strategies.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what this really reminds me of um, you know, Kelly, I I loved when like they launched those brands that were just for men in terms of like, for example, shaving or something.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: You remember that?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like when they just they started launching those kind of brands because you know, one thing that no one talks about, and I think this is such a crucial part in why we buy what we buy as women, I can say, um, is feeling like this is yours now.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like you bought something, it's for you, it's for your use.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: You completely connect with this product and you want to use it to better yourself.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: That connection part is where I think brands like you can't just say everything is unisex and then expect people to bond to it.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't work.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_03: We weren't born as unisex individuals.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, that's just reality.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, it and for us to pretend like, oh, just because the packaging is not pink anymore, that means more men are gonna buy it.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: No, that's just simply not the case, you know.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, I I want to know how many marketing studies have been done where you're just evaluating the difference between men and women when it comes to their skin concerns, you know what I mean?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that's where I I guess.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: I completely agree.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, how it just it's common sense, I feel like, but I just don't see a lot of people doing it.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: So it just it makes me wonder is like, well, why are we confused why we don't have so many male consumers in the skincare industry?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: We haven't targeted them, we haven't understood them yet, you know?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're spot on.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you think, and there's been there's been grand brands, I I do think about Unilever a lot, but I think about great brands that have really understood this and and done such a good job.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when you think about um the body body positivity kind of message that Dove has you know embarked on over the years, um, you know, they they really hit um you know a chord when they started talking about real beauty for women and and really focusing on kind of how the women thought about beauty and how they think about themselves.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, there there really has never been anything quite like that.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's not been an unlock like that, I think.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I and Dove Plus Men um I think tr tried to do that, but I I I don't think they were really able to.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's been an unlock like that for men.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I think there's been some products.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you're familiar with Manscaped, and I think they're a fantastic analog to our business, but they figured out how to talk about, you know, male grooming.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and they sell they sell a physical implement tool, you know, um uh razor that you, you know, you groom below the belt.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: And but they were they were able to talk to men in in a way and and and and address uh you know something that men were a pro quote unquote problem or a problem that men were interested in taking care of, which is you know, grooming their body hair.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and they were able to communicate and connect with them in a way that was very, very, very mute meaningful.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um it's it you know, it's been very powerful and they've been extremely successful at it.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I love that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: I love that analogy, and I think that that's a you know a really great one.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that yeah, it it really comes down to like figuring out like what is it that you know is keeping someone from buying.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh let's be honest.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: I I did my own little study, you know, with your brand.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Kelly, I was I was excited to chat because I wanted to share with you.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's there's three men in my life that I cannot get them to use skincare products and it's been just the worst thing in my, but they are actually they they were open to trying yours and they felt a connection and they felt like it was something that was theirs.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why I'm I can confidently say that I know that we haven't done the homework as much as we should have, because you know, when I showed them your line, it was not just the idea of skincare anymore.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: It was about the color, it was about the look and feel of it.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: It was about what's it gonna, where's it gonna sit on my, you know, my bathroom sink or wherever I use that.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: It was a lot of things that went into their decisions.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was like um, I saw it happening in front of me and I was like, this is very interesting, you know, just to like observe how a male consumer is analyzing if he's going to incorporate this product into his daily life, you know, um, and and that I think that component, there's just so much that can be done there.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, for so, you know, I I tried this with my father, which, you know, he's a very old school person, you know, he still does the old school shaving, you know, techniques and stuff.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: So he was one of them.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, huh, okay, yeah, this is interesting.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: I like that it's for men.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, yeah, dad, try it, you know, give it a shot.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: He was very receptive.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've never seen my father like that, you know.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like really like, yeah, he's like, Why what are you handing me?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: What is this?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't need anything else.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: I have what I need.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's usually his response.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, so to see him open up and to see him just open up, even at in the initial phases of just seeing the packaging, seeing the feel and look of the brand, and being like, Yeah, okay, I get it.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I like this.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that for me was eye-opening.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate your your um your nod to the fact that we we're trying, you know, we we I think what you said earlier is right, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be all things to all people.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: We do focus, you know, we're we're unapologetically male.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not we're not um hyper masculine like military grade uh male.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you want that, there's other brands out there that kind of can deliver on that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: But we're not we don't lean towards, you know, a unisex brand.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um there's other great brands out there that do do that.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think like guys that look at this category and want to feel like confident that um, you know, they're they're they're getting products that are really meant to address their particular skincare, male skincare needs.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we have some other um body care grooming um products such as our body wash and our bar soaps.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they feel very comfortable, you know, um engaging in a journey with with T Shanley.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um, and but but I'm also really proud, I gotta say this a plug, you know, for how we think about the market.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we really do want to help like all men, you know, as many men, as many men from different places in the in the world and and ethnicities as possible.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um we we ship uh to 108 countries every month.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we're in, you know, every really every country around the world.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we have just as many, you know, Abduls as as Samars and Davids and you know and and um Jose's as part of our, you know, as part of our cohort of guys.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, and we're really proud of of having a very diverse group of of men.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of people out there that are really interested in taking care of themselves.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we're just trying to, you know, to get um, you know, focused on self-care and help give guys tips, meaningful tips on how to take care of themselves.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: No, I love that.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: I think that there's definitely, you know, a very strong space for what you've created here, you know, in this industry.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I really applaud you for doing it because I definitely believe in, you know, we our goal here is to help people take care of their skin, right?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, when we look at skin cancer, you know, statistics, when we look at um, you know, UV exposure statistics or all of the real science behind things that are real problems, right?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: In in North America and anywhere in the world.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: And the patients that are coming into the offices of dermatologists and what they're complaining about, for example, a lot of men I know are sports enthusiasts and they're outside a lot.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of hyperpigmentation, for example, in the male community.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we don't talk about that enough.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: We don't address these like specific concerns.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: We have to start thinking about it like that, you know, and and say that no, it's time to do whatever it's gonna take to put this product on the counter of this specific person or this specific category of people.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if we start doing that, then the whole conversation around, well, is it suitable for everybody?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's gonna go away.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because I agree.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_03: Science, you know what I mean?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: Science needs to be delivered.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: And in in science, we talk about things when I'm talking about when I'm doing bench research.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not I'm trying to find the vehicle that's going to deliver my molecule to the destination it's supposed to go to.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sitting there having a conversation with you about the psychology of the vehicle.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm talking about the efficacy.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's that's, I think, where we really kind of hit or or we we miss the mark as a an industry when I look at this area because we have spent so much time, which is wonderful, creating this unisex platform, right?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: Skincare has become a little bit different than what beauty always was, which was very polarized, and we're getting there.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: But in that process, we are still missing half of the market.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's like we're not, it's not working, guys.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: We got to find another way, is my point.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that, you know, for you to just boldly come out and say, hey, look, we're a male-oriented brand.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: It is what it is, it doesn't mean anything more or less than that.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: We have great products, they work.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's to me great.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I love seeing that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot more people could learn from what you're doing.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, well, I appreciate that.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate the vote of confidence.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we've we've been incredibly fortunate.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, our business has grown dramatically, you know, over the last um six years.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we've shipped, you know, over a million and a half boxes.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: We are a very heavily subscription um oriented company.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have hundreds of thousands of customers.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think like, you know, what we're saying and talking about is making sense to a lot of people.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we just need to continue delivering our message.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I I do have to say, I think the the topic that you were talking about about delivering products that really are effective, efficacious, and deliver a value to it to a uh for us for our men's skin is a really important factor.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we when we first started, we and we developed our own, all of our own formulas, and we have a chemist that's a partner in our business.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we did decide to lean in early to uh prevent skin care by skin cancer by having um uh uh SPF uh products in our portfolio.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so our daytime moisturizer, our daily everyday moisturizer is SPF, so does so does our lip balm and our our sunstick.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so we think it's important to educate guys.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Rob's my part business partner, Rob, his father died of melanoma at the age that I'm at right now.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've known him for a long time, and he said early on that this should be an important thing, not only as part of our education in general about skin care, but helping guys understand how to prevent um melanoma, like you said, the number one skin cancer, and it's the number one skin cancer for men.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily, it's the most preventable.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: So those are all things that um, you know, we're just we're just trying to fight the fight, and it is a dog fight.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: No, I really, you know, I I'm so sorry to hear about, you know, um the loss of someone at such an early age from melanoma.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: Mel, you know, every time I hear about a case, I really just it it hurts me to hear it because it's like, yeah, you're right, you know what you said, it's preventable.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: You guys, you know, we can prevent this if we just like offer the right things to people, you know, it's like you just make it available.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that accessibility is something that we love talking about in the in the way of like, I guess, the buzzword trend thing, you know, in the industry.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: But are we really discussing accessibility?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because I where from where I'm standing, you know, I think accessibility is not only is it available in enough stores or a website, it's more about who's gonna buy it, you know, and are you drawing them in?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: Are you making it easier for the consumer to come in and you know really pay attention to what is here?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's accessibility.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that knowledge component that goes with that is something that you just can't compromise on.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I completely agree where you know you said that you guys made a decision that you have to gain that knowledge.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: You have to you had to gain that knowledge and you had to figure out what was needed.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, also I wanted to mention that adding SPF to the products themselves, I think has been from what I've seen so far, just you know, looking in the most strategic of getting men on a ritual, you know, of using SPF.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's a great approach, you know.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's great.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's I I wish that um again, I think you were alluding to this earlier.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I wish that guys cared a little bit more about the efficacy, like you know, the ingredients and the amount of time and effort and energy it takes to develop these products.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we spend like an exorbitant amount of time doing it.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's not that they don't care, they they they want to know that they work.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And once they um have tried them and used them or heard from others that they do work, then they're they feel comfortable trying to try to try to try the product.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it is incumbent upon us as a brand um to you know to try to make sure that we're incorporating things that we know are going to be helpful to men and and are gonna be efficacious.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think that is just uh you know a lack of maturity on on in the male consumer with understanding, and I'm not speaking about everybody and understanding what what different products, how they deliver, um, different delivery mechanisms, different different uh organic and inorganic chemicals and how they work.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we're getting there.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think at the very least, we're we're putting our product in in the hands of guys that are protecting their face against the skin's harm uh sun's harmful rays.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel very, very good about that.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love that.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think that, you know, you made a really good point about that, uh, the idea of you know them caring more about it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, what's interesting is that for me, it immediately sparked this memory of I've always, you know, even with male patients I've seen, it's very difficult to get men to take even medication when they need it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: So when you tell them, well, you got to use it's like, you know, I've always like I can honestly tell you as a physician, I've noticed a difference in just the the habits of of just that, you know, like um staying open-minded about therapy, you know.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: For example, like, oh, take a daily aspirin.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're usually gonna argue with me versus a female patient who's like, oh, okay, yeah, I'll start doing that, you know.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: The man's gonna be like, Well, why do I need that?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, am I gonna die of heart, uh heart attack or what?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: So then I have to take a little bit extra time and explain it.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, the person's usually like, oh, okay, I get you, doc.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, got it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so it's like it you have to take a little bit extra time, but it's worth it because by doing that little bit more of explaining or a little bit more of like, hey, this is why you need this.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I feel like that's like almost like a magic bullet, you know, it works, and you know, and I think that's worth investing in, you know, for both uh the for brand founders and for, you know, I also I'm speaking to a lot of venture capitalists out there.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was recently talking to a a really wonderful one, and we were discussing this idea of like, you know, what she looks for in a brand when she's trying to invest.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and yeah, Tina, yeah, and she will she had it was a wonderful episode, and and Tina made great points about, you know, well, we look at the DNA of the brand.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I think that's phenomenal.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: You I mean, this has to become a part of the DNA of a male-oriented brand, is to be male-oriented.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we can't take that out of the DNA, you know, it's it's not gonna work.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: You, you know, we talk about self-care a lot here because I think like we we're I I see our brand, T Shanley, as part of a broader self-care movement.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is a universal movement.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's not a man thing or woman thing.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's, you know, universally um people are really thinking about their their health and their longevity.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I get a lot of questions about um, you know, how do you, you know, how do you, as a man, how do you stay healthier?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and what are the things you should be doing?
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and a lot of the common uh well, I don't say common, but a lot of the same topics come up over over and over again, right?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, eating right, exercising regularly, getting the right amount of sleep, staying hydrated, things like that.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: But what one thing that um is not talked about a lot, which is what you were just hitting on, is that um men aren't don't don't have it in their mind that they need they need to go to see their at least their you know their primary care, their internist, um, and their dermatologist on uh when they get a little bit older on a regular basis.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like that needs to be ingrained in you know the way guys think because we just don't think that way.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I you know, and I I I was one of those people.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: I was I would only go to the doctors every time my wife would make an appointment for me.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and I'm not bragging about that.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not proud of that.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was just the way it was.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now I do think about the importance of going for you know regular annual exams.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: We have a fund here.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: My partner Rob, who I mentioned, whose father passed away from melanoma.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: We we have we're very fortunate to offer a very good healthcare program here at the company, but we actually pay any deductible for for an annual dermatological visit.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so in addition to having great health care, we cover um the dermatological uh out-of-pocket expense.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: And on two or three occasions, we've had employees um and and actually both men and women employees come back and they were found to have melanoma on their skin.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they probably wouldn't have gone to the doctor had we not been talking about the importance of taking care of yourself, your skin in particular, and making sure you go into an annual dermatological um visit.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, this is just part of the conversation we're trying to have.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, wow.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: Congratulations on saving lives.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's amazing that you guys have that.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think that there's a lot of uh that you can learn from that.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, big bigger companies, I think, you know, they really need to start thinking about these kind of things, you know, like, okay, uh, how many men are really going to go to a dermatologist?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, how hard is it?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean, to book an appointment at a dermatologist's office.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that the waiting lists are three, four months long sometimes.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like you just I think that's a wonderful thing.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: I really do.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I really hope that there are other entrepreneurs tuning in right now that can maybe offer that as well because you know, it is it's true.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was talking to a wonderful um dermatologist, she's very well known for her work, Dr.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Markowitz.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and she actually, you know, she's basically like the guru for skin cancer.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, she wrote the book on it really.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting how she was explaining to me that, you know, they have such advanced techniques now, but yet we still see very few male, you know, male patients coming in for a checkup.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, she's still she's like, I can do this non-invasively now, and I'm still only doing it.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: 90% of my patients are women, you know, and she's like, and we had that conversation, and this was actually a year ago.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember just thinking to myself, like, wow, you know, men really, because men don't go, they don't go to the doctor like women do, they don't go to, you know, specialists and do the checkups, and unless they have to get an annual, they're you're mostly not gonna show up.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's just that's just the how it is, you know, it's the nature of the beast right there.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I think that it's easier for us and it's gonna do more social justice for us to go with that and to understand that psychology than to keep going against the wave, you know, and and green, because it's not working if we do it like that.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you can't change people overnight, you can't change uh socially, you know, socially ingrained habits and ways of thinking overnight.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: You have to do it gradually.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I think, you know, by starting here where we are with with a line, you know, that's geared towards men, I think that's a great place to start.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, hey, I'm on board.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so Kelly, I wanted to ask you, you know, there was a one question I I had, which was, you know, what are some of the feedback you've gotten about, you know, from your consumers, from your customers, you know, about what like specific skin changes they've seen or anything that's really stood out to you, you know, from testimonials.
• 34:17
  unknown: Yeah.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, um, we, you know, being a digitally native company and we we we we are still a hundred percent um digital in our sales.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: All of our sales are are we have no bricks and mortar sales at all um anywhere in the country of the world, um, other than TJ.com and Amazon.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have a little we have a little bit of a pre pref uh presence on Walmart and eBay, uh, which is more of a defensive than an offensive position.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um so we are, you know, because of that, we are you know, we monitor every single little nook and cranny of the social world and we get feedback every day.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean it's uh it is just it's almost I don't know, it's it's almost remarkable.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um we we have a guy, we have a guy that called um that calls everybody at the company and he just wants to talk about skincare.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um very nice gentleman, um, you know, more of a senior gentleman.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: He call calls us every week to talk about uh his skincare.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I we see everything.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we see before and after pictures.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think we have about, we just asked for some last week.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: We had about a hundred people reply with before and after pictures.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it's amazing just the quality of the improvement in the quality of skin just from and even acne prone skin from um from just using a routine on a regular basis.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll have uh you know pictures of guys that have severe acne that use our acne system um for three months and and show us that they've had you know amazing results.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so and we get phone calls and we we get almost almost every day we'll get a recording from someone talking.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: It almost seems like uh I forget what the vitamin company is out there that all you hear on the radio is like they're you know, people calling in saying is give me more energy than I've ever had.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: We get that kind of stuff every day.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: The thing that I like the most, the the the the customer feedback that I like the most more than anything else, um and actually really on on course with what we've been talking about.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's and it actually the the the um and it was an email and it was a couple of years ago.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: We have we have about 50 of our best emails up on our kitchen wall, printed out and posted on our kitchen wall.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was a gentleman who's from um Washington State and he has two young children, um, and he was diagnosed with testicular cancer.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um he he said that um you know he he spent a lot of time uh you know recovering and and trying to deal with um that situation at the same time, you know, being uh tr trying to work and and be a father and and a husband.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but during that time he said that um he felt most normal um in this period of his life when he did his skincare routine.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: So um I was really I was really crushed by that because you know I feel like that guy was spending those few minutes you know trying to really take care of himself and and at the same time trying to recuperate and get back to normal.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it's during that routine that he said he felt during his skincare routine at morning and night, he felt the most normal.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh um, so as he was, you know, as he was struggling with this.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I the those those are the type of things.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like I said, we hear we hear things every single day.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it those type of comments are just you know overwhelming.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's so amazing.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: That is real, like I feel like that's really doing what you're supposed to do as an entrepreneur in any space, is providing relief, you know, to somebody somewhere in some way.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it doesn't have to be extreme, and sometimes it is, you know, you might you never mean it to, but that's really powerful.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you're giving options to men who who have this um hurdle, such as something like chemo, because as a lot of people know, when you go through something like radiation chemotherapy, I mean your skin is obviously changing, you know, it's it's it's changing even more than it normally does.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: You're experiencing excessive dryness, you know, sensitivity, all sorts of stuff.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: So when you can give somebody that's going through all that some sort of a solution or relief or just anything that makes them feel better, that's huge.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's that's amazing volume.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we we I had a guy, we had a guy call in once.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I think, you know, in uh any business, you know, that's it's got hundreds of thousands of customers, we hear we kind of hear everything.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: We had a guy call in not this summer, but last summer.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: He was from Indiana, and um he um it's actually kind of a sad story.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: He his house burned down and um and he he was like had almost nothing.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he called us up and he said, I don't have any money, but I've lost all my skincare in the fire, and I don't even you know, is there any way that you guys can like I still want to continue my skincare, but I I just can't, you know, afford it right now.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we gave him like a year's worth of skincare.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he's been with us we he's been with us as a customer um, you know, ever since.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I don't think he'll ever leave us.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but so there's all types of ways that you know guys kind of connect to thinking about being healthy and taking care of themselves.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's really meaningful.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, you have some really awesome testimonial.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: I really like that.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's I mean, that's like I feel like exactly what we were talking about, Kelly, in the beginning of the show was this idea of making a connection, and you've definitely done that.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's really truly hats off to you, you know, the whole company, because that's that's what it's about.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's really, I kid you not, the more and more I dive into medicine and the more and more I dive into science, there's one thing that keeps coming back over and over again, and that is the increasing need to understand psychological, you know, um hurdles in everything.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, in everything.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: The mind, the the mind to everything access is incredible.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, when you even something like I know a few years ago, people were really starting to understand that, you know, if you can make someone feel better, that actually improves their chances of survivability in a lot of cases, you know, and and these kind of topics were coming up and no one was really, I mean, I think a few people were picking up on it, but for me, you know, in the healthcare realm, I was like, oh my gosh, this is powerful, you know.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you can start to understand the psychology of people and start to really cater to it and understand it and and move around it, you can cause so much change to happen in a positive way.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that a lot of entrepreneurs out there, it you guys don't have to feel like you have to fit into a box, you know?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you don't have to have, you know, beige packaging and you know, just no expression on the you know, on the products.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like you know, it doesn't have to be like that.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: You have to just really figure out who your consumer is.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: So that's that's this is great, you know.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't agree with you more.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I think you're spot on.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: You you really have dialed it in.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you so much for that.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm I'm I'm a huge fan of the line.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think that you know, for all the male listeners out there, I know we have a great audience of male listeners, and I'm very grateful for that because you know, now is a great time to get into skincare.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: If you're a man and you really don't have a skincare routine or you're stealing product from your wife secretly and not telling her, you know, this is a great option, you know, guys.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, just check out the brand.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_03: I I really encourage everybody to, you know, um dive into the brands that I host because I'm not gonna host brands I don't believe in.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, Kelly, thank you so much for your time and for your willingness to spread the word and to educate people.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: I really appreciate it for you know for you coming on.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: And for everyone listening, if you have not already, please take a second to go on to Apple Podcasts or Spotify Podcasts, leave us a review, um, a written review.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: It helps us a lot and it helps us in our growth.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope you guys learned a lot from this episode.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: And if you have any questions at all for uh the T Chanley team, definitely uh send them my way.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: I will pass them along to Kelly's team.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: But uh yeah, I'll be back next time.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 42:36
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• 42:41
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• 42:44
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• 42:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 43:06
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• 43:15
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• 43:19
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• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 43:29
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• 43:36
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• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.