Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Delphi murders update & Scary Spice Mel B's high living

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Delphi murders update & Scary Spice Mel B's high living · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
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Speaker 1: one thirty two. It's a sketch of the man they
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Speaker 1: say is responsible for the murder of Abby Williams and
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Speaker 1: Libby German. The reason they even have the sketch in
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Speaker 1: the first places because people have come forward with tips
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Speaker 1: and information. You interview all those people and you come
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Speaker 1: up with common themes on hair, facial hair, eyes, skin tone, clothing.
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Speaker 1: Police described the man as a white male between five
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Speaker 1: six and five ten waye from a hundred and eighty
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Speaker 1: to two pounds, with reddish brown hair. We're still getting
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Speaker 1: anywhere from five to ten tips today. We're still getting emails.
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Speaker 1: So this case is not dried up. It's not a
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Speaker 1: cold case. This this case is still very active. Two
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Speaker 1: little girls go for a walk, They go for a
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Speaker 1: hike together one afternoon. They've been best friends for years
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Speaker 1: in a small, small all community like the one I
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Speaker 1: grew up in, where as far as you can see,
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Speaker 1: there's soybeans and tall pine trees, no crime. Right that evening,
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Speaker 1: around dinner time, the red bells of alarm start going
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Speaker 1: off in everybody's head. When the two girls don't come home.
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Speaker 1: I'm talking, of course, about the two little girls out
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Speaker 1: of Delphi, the little girls who actually took pictures of
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Speaker 1: each other as they walked across a trestle bridge. They
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Speaker 1: were never seen alive again. I'm talking about Liberty German
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Speaker 1: and Abigail Williams in Delphi, Indiana. The last known photo
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Speaker 1: of them that places them in the location of their
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Speaker 1: kidnap and murder was taken by them. You know how Twains,
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Speaker 1: especially tween girls, love to selfie and post it. One
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Speaker 1: took a picture of the other walking across that trestle bridge.
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Speaker 1: That was the last knowledge of the two of them
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Speaker 1: being alive. I Nancy Grace, this is crime stories, and
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Speaker 1: in the last hours, more developments unfold in the search
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Speaker 1: for the killer of these two little girls in the
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Speaker 1: middle of a town where I don't even know if
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Speaker 1: they've had an homicide in the last ten years Delphi.
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Speaker 1: Joining me is Crack, reporter for The Daily Mail at
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Speaker 1: daily Mail dot com. Shaun Walsh also with me federal
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Speaker 1: trial lawyer defense attorney Richard Herman, currently practicing out of Vegas,
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Speaker 1: but practices all across the country, kind of like a
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Speaker 1: hired gun. I want to go first to you, Sean
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Speaker 1: we now have a composite, and I see where some
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Speaker 1: of this is coming from, uh, in a composite that
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Speaker 1: was released on your website dailymail dot com as ours
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Speaker 1: as well crime Online. I see where they're getting some
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Speaker 1: of this, Sean, because the hat they've got him in
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Speaker 1: kind of like, um, a newsboy's hat. You can see
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Speaker 1: that it looks brown to me. And the photo I've
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Speaker 1: always said I thought, but I couldn't confirm from the
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Speaker 1: naked eye that he had at least a mustache and
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Speaker 1: a beard or a beard. But the way you guys
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Speaker 1: have we see in the composite, it's kind of like,
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Speaker 1: I don't know what you call that. It's sort of mustache,
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Speaker 1: kind of goes down the side either side of your
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Speaker 1: lips and kind of turns into a little a little uh,
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Speaker 1: almost like a goatee. And he's wearing in the picture
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Speaker 1: it looks to me like a double sweatshirt, like a
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Speaker 1: a jacket, possibly over a sweatshirt. Sean Walsh, dailymail dot com.
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Speaker 1: Tell me the latest into search for the killer of
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Speaker 1: Liberty and Abigail Nancy. Look, we received this composite of
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Speaker 1: the soft picked in the case. I mean, we haven't
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Speaker 1: heard anything since February when we got that grainy image
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Speaker 1: of this person that was captured on the girls social media.
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Speaker 1: And what it looks like to your description is the
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Speaker 1: man has a goatee, he was wearing a cap, He
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Speaker 1: has bushy hair, and it looks like he has on
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Speaker 1: some sort of hoodie. Police aren't giving any more details though,
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Speaker 1: they're not saying who the witness was that saw the man.
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Speaker 1: They're keeping that all confidential. They're just saying that, Sean,
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Speaker 1: I gotta back you up just a moment, because you're
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Speaker 1: you're giving me so much factual evidence that we're just hearing.
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Speaker 1: It is like drinking out of a fire hydrant. It's
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Speaker 1: too much, too fast. First of all, you said the
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Speaker 1: composite came from witnesses. What witness number one? Who could
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Speaker 1: it be? Number two? You stated the photo taken by
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Speaker 1: the girls of this guy on the very same bridge
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Speaker 1: where they're taking pictures of each other during their hike,
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Speaker 1: very innocently strolling along, they're taking pictures. This photo of
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Speaker 1: this guy was taken by one of the murdered girls.
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Speaker 1: And I'm talking about twins, these two little girls. I mean, uh,
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Speaker 1: they're precious. They're just a couple of years older than
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Speaker 1: my little girl, my little Lucy, and my twin John David.
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Speaker 1: So let's go back to witness, Shaun. Watch you say, witness,
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Speaker 1: can you elaborate on that at all? So, the Carroll
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Speaker 1: County Sheriff said the witness saw the man walking near Delphi,
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Speaker 1: about sixty miles northwest of Indianapolis, but only recently met
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Speaker 1: with an FBI sketch artist to provide the facial details
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Speaker 1: for the rendering that was released. Now they're not saying
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Speaker 1: where the witness saw the unidentified man, but they're saying
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Speaker 1: around the time the girls were killed, and that matches up.
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Speaker 1: Let me go to you, Richard Harmon. Now I know
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Speaker 1: you're thinking of a million ways to shoot down this witness,
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Speaker 1: to shoot down this composite. One thing is the delay
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Speaker 1: in time, all right? That the problem if it's true
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Speaker 1: that police are just show are just getting the composite
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Speaker 1: sketch from the witness. Depending on who the witness is
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Speaker 1: and where they were, they could have been influenced by
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Speaker 1: the picture. I mean, there's a million ways if this
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Speaker 1: ever goes to trial, that a trial lawyer, a defense
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Speaker 1: lawyer like yourself, a good one, can attack the composite drawing.
6:24
Speaker 1: You understand, yeah, Nascy, if this case came to your
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Speaker 1: desk as a prosecutor, you'd lose in your mind. By now.
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Speaker 1: This happened in February, the girls went missing, and the
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Speaker 1: next day they were found dead. I don't even believe
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Speaker 1: they have a witness, or a credible witness. I think
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Speaker 1: they may have used some filtering technology on the grainy
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Speaker 1: picture to try to get it a little better. But
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Speaker 1: you know, law enforcement, it looks to me like they
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Speaker 1: are totally lost on this case. They have nothing. You said,
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Speaker 1: they may not have had a double murder in ten years.
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Speaker 1: I don't think they're ready for this. I don't think
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Speaker 1: they can handle it. How do they not have more
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Speaker 1: by now it's almost August. Is killing took place in February.
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Speaker 1: You would think that they would have more developments, more leads,
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Speaker 1: and provide more information to the public instead of keeping
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Speaker 1: it tight to the vest. I think it's tight to
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Speaker 1: the vest because they are lost. They have nothing here now, Richard,
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Speaker 1: everything you're saying, everything you're saying, I'm not arguing with you.
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Speaker 1: I'm taking a different slant on it, though. Sean walts
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Speaker 1: with me. Richard Herman with me, Sean, let's analyze what
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Speaker 1: Richard said. And I can't argue that he's wrong, But
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Speaker 1: but what he's saying what has happened here may be
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Speaker 1: very understandable. What's we know all the facts. The girls
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Speaker 1: were out there by themselves. We don't know of any
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Speaker 1: other witnesses for all I know, is taken this long
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Speaker 1: for police to develop a witness. And no, I do
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Speaker 1: not believe that the police have used some kind of
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Speaker 1: filter and made up a witness. I don't believe that
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Speaker 1: at all. I think that somewhere somebody saw this guy
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Speaker 1: walking in or walking out of the park and didn't
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Speaker 1: put two and two together, or Sean Walsh daily Mail
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Speaker 1: dot Com. They may have seen him somewhere else and said, WHOA,
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Speaker 1: that looks like the guy in that picture. I mean,
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Speaker 1: it could be a myriad of possibilities as to why
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Speaker 1: we're just getting this sketch. So instead of attacking police
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Speaker 1: for just finding the witness or just releasing the sketch,
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Speaker 1: maybe we can figure out what happened all right. I
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Speaker 1: don't think they're lying, Shaun Walsh. I think there is
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Speaker 1: a witness to this guy. Don't know where or wind though.
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Speaker 1: Nancy I agree, And look, if you look at it
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Speaker 1: this way, this isn't like two kids that went missing
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Speaker 1: on the streets in New York or Dallas or Atlanta,
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Speaker 1: where their security cameras everywhere. They were on a hiking
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Speaker 1: trail where our security cameras a police only have to
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Speaker 1: work with what they got from the girls cell phones. Now,
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Speaker 1: in doing that, I believe that there is a witness
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Speaker 1: that they were able to match up because if you remember,
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Speaker 1: the cell phone image was very very grainy, it wasn't
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Speaker 1: a clear image, it didn't show the person's face. And
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Speaker 1: this composite that their release is very very detailed. It
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Speaker 1: depicts a white man with a prominent nose and goatee
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Speaker 1: who's wearing a cap and what appears to be a
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Speaker 1: hooded sweater. Police said the suspect has reddish brown hair.
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Speaker 1: He stands between five ft six and five ft seven
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Speaker 1: and weighs between one hundred and eight and two hundred
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Speaker 1: and twenty pounds. Now, police have asked the public to
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Speaker 1: examine the image, particularly the man's facial features, and contact
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Speaker 1: them with any information they might have. So police didn't
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Speaker 1: know who this was and that they were making this up,
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Speaker 1: they wouldn't be telling people to really examine the facial features,
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Speaker 1: because clearly the witness gave them a great description of
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Speaker 1: who this person potentially is. And the way you work
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Speaker 1: with a schedule artist. I mean, I don't know if
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Speaker 1: you've done that, Sean Walherman Privy too, I have, and
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Speaker 1: you know, Richard Harmon, it reminds me of the case
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Speaker 1: I tried, one of the last ones I tried before
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Speaker 1: I left prosecuting, went to Court TV to launch my
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Speaker 1: show with Johnny Cochrane. God Rest his soul, and it
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Speaker 1: was a killer, of course, and as it turned out,
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Speaker 1: the Jane Doe we never could identify his last murder victim,
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Speaker 1: but amazingly a sketch artist, a lady sketch artist, who
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Speaker 1: tried her best to recreate the face from the remains.
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Speaker 1: It's very difficult, and I didn't put a whole lot
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Speaker 1: of stock into it, not because of her talent, but
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Speaker 1: because there wasn't much less left of her. But then
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Speaker 1: guess who I found, Richard Harmon, the killer's ex girlfriend.
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Speaker 1: I got the sketch artist to draw a picture of
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Speaker 1: the girls of the killer's ex girlfriend, and in closing
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Speaker 1: arguments I held it up to the jury and said,
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Speaker 1: who would have killed this woman other than the man
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Speaker 1: that was spurned by this woman? And they were all
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Speaker 1: most identical. It was incredible. And when you look at
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Speaker 1: this sketch that Seawan Walts from Daily Mail is talking about,
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Speaker 1: it's very detailed. And Richard, when you sit there with
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Speaker 1: a sketch artist and you watch them they're working with
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Speaker 1: the witness and they'll say, oh, no, the nose needs
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Speaker 1: to be wider. No, the nose needs to be thinner,
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Speaker 1: the eyes need to be more hooded, the eyebrows, this,
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Speaker 1: the beard, this, the and they really get it as
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Speaker 1: close as possible to the witnesses, recollection what they are seeing,
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Speaker 1: what the witnesses seeing in their mind's eye. It's really
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Speaker 1: incredible to watch, Richard, and the sketch artists are brilliant. However, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: if they had this witness, oh here you go, why
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Speaker 1: didn't it come out in February or March or April?
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Speaker 1: You think law enforcement would put this sketch off as
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Speaker 1: quickly as possible. Five months go by, and now for
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Speaker 1: the first time we see a sketch of someone who
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Speaker 1: they claim if the person I mean, I would have
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Speaker 1: a field day. Of course, accombination on this witness. Five
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Speaker 1: months go by, and what were the other factors? And
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Speaker 1: you know what I would say, if I were the judge,
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Speaker 1: if I got the right objection, of course I'd say,
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Speaker 1: um sustained repetitive. Here it is with Richard Herman, second verse,
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Speaker 1: same as the first. Yes, I know it's been several months,
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Speaker 1: but if you listen to what Carol County Sheriff Toby
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Speaker 1: Lazimie said, he said he cannot discuss where the witness
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Speaker 1: saw this man who authorities now considered to be the
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Speaker 1: only suspect, the main suspect and the murders of fourteen
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Speaker 1: year old Liberty at thirteen year old Abigail. He said,
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Speaker 1: the witness saw the man around the time the girls
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Speaker 1: were killed. Now that's vague, but to me, that would
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Speaker 1: mean Seawan was coming on or leaving that bridge or
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Speaker 1: in that area, you know, an hour or two before
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Speaker 1: or an hour or two after Sean. Well. Authorities there
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Speaker 1: saying Nancy that the witness who saw the suspect was
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Speaker 1: close enough to him to say that he did not
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Speaker 1: have blue eyes, but was certain was uncertain his eye color.
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Speaker 1: And they're also saying that the what's happened here is
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Speaker 1: is they believe fear has played a part that the
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Speaker 1: person may not have come forward sooner with the description
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Speaker 1: because of fear. You've got to remember, this person that
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Speaker 1: they're seeking has alleged has actually murdered two young girls.
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Speaker 1: So we're not dealing with an innocent party here. We're
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Speaker 1: dealing with someone who is capable of murder. Next question,
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Speaker 1: do we have any idea whether he raped them or
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Speaker 1: assault to them sexually in any way, because if there
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Speaker 1: is DNA, that's a whole different can of worms. Because
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Speaker 1: if they've got DNA, certainly they've compared it to the
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Speaker 1: DNA database. Right. Certainly they've called on aphis and codas
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Speaker 1: for fingerprints, wouldn't you think, Sean, if there are any
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Speaker 1: to be had? Absolutely, But interestingly, in this case, authorities
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Speaker 1: aren't giving away any details around the nature of the
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Speaker 1: crime other than these two young girls were murdered, So
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Speaker 1: we don't know what the perpetrator did to them. All
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Speaker 1: we know is sadly that these two young girls. Think
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Speaker 1: about it, Sean, use that noggain, Come on, he said
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Speaker 1: on the bridge. Why else would he abduct them and
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Speaker 1: murder them if not for some type of a sex
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Speaker 1: assault and another thing. Hold on, Sean, give rich a
14:34
Speaker 1: term of this information. Of course, he'll, he'll will, We'll
14:38
Speaker 1: give the information. You'll turn it into bullets to shoot
14:40
Speaker 1: it right back at us. But remember one of the
14:45
Speaker 1: girls with a cell phone actually recorded the perhaps the
14:49
Speaker 1: killer's voice as well, Sean, which is going to make
14:53
Speaker 1: it a lot easier when this goes to trial and
14:55
Speaker 1: they're looking for a positive identification to say that this
14:58
Speaker 1: was the person who was there on that trail and
15:00
Speaker 1: who murdered those two girls. So Richard Herman if and
15:03
Speaker 1: when they arrest somebody, there's no way that he can
15:08
Speaker 1: refuse to be part of a lineup, refuse to give
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Speaker 1: a voice identification sample. He cannot refuse pursuant to a warrant,
15:17
Speaker 1: of course, the search warrant to give a DNA sample,
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Speaker 1: which is really just you know, a vocal swab from
15:23
Speaker 1: his mouth. He cannot refuse that. He has to do
15:27
Speaker 1: it if there's a legitimate warrant. So what do you
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Speaker 1: think about that, Herman, I say that you're right, he
15:33
Speaker 1: has to do that. And hopefully they got DNA. They
15:36
Speaker 1: had to have gotten d NA off these girls, and
15:39
Speaker 1: this way, when they get the swab of the people
15:43
Speaker 1: they believed may have been involved in this. Hopefully it
15:45
Speaker 1: will match up. It's hard for me to believe that
15:48
Speaker 1: this is a one shot deal for this particular assailant.
15:51
Speaker 1: You know, you gotta believe maybe this has been done before,
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Speaker 1: not in the system, didn't come up with the DNA
15:57
Speaker 1: that they did get at the scene. You know, the
16:02
Speaker 1: risk of getting the wrong person pulled in arrested on
16:06
Speaker 1: this case, I think it's high when you see the
16:09
Speaker 1: sketch five months after the incident took place, what happened.
16:14
Speaker 1: I don't believe the person was afraid because this person murders.
16:17
Speaker 1: I don't believe that if someone saw a murder or
16:21
Speaker 1: saw someone the duck people, they're gonna call the police
16:24
Speaker 1: or they're gonna call Nancy Grace. Those are one of
16:26
Speaker 1: the two first calls you make. Well, unless there's some
16:29
Speaker 1: reason they don't want anything to do with the police.
16:33
Speaker 1: But if it's a vagrant, but if it's somebody that
16:35
Speaker 1: was committing a crime. What if it's somebody out there
16:37
Speaker 1: having having a joint and they just don't want to
16:40
Speaker 1: get involved. Hold on one eight four four four five
16:44
Speaker 1: nine five seven eight six eight four four four, five, nine,
16:49
Speaker 1: five seven eight six eight four four four, five nine,
16:53
Speaker 1: five seven eight six. That's the toll free number for
16:56
Speaker 1: anyone that has information on these two terrific murders. To me,
17:02
Speaker 1: this um, this sketch is a big breakthrough because it's
17:06
Speaker 1: incredibly detailed. Question. Uh, let me throw to either one
17:11
Speaker 1: of you guys the cell phone, the cell phone that
17:15
Speaker 1: was recording to the very end. I think one of
17:17
Speaker 1: the little girls had in her pocket and she was
17:21
Speaker 1: audio recording him, and the purps said, quote down the heill.
17:27
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, did what did he touch other than the
17:31
Speaker 1: girls themselves? How were they murdered? Where they strangled? Is
17:35
Speaker 1: their touch DNA? Did he shoot them? What about the caliber?
17:38
Speaker 1: Have they done a ballistic search to compare it to
17:41
Speaker 1: other guns? Did he use a knife? If so, is
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Speaker 1: their DNA? Did he molest them? Is their DNA from that?
17:49
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many forensic questions. Let me ask
17:53
Speaker 1: you this, Sean Walsh, why are they keeping all this secret?
17:58
Speaker 1: I mean, what's the That's what puzzles us. I mean,
18:02
Speaker 1: you think they would be out there on the front
18:04
Speaker 1: front foot each day and every day since that crime,
18:07
Speaker 1: giving as much information as they can so that the
18:10
Speaker 1: public can come forward and someone can say I know
18:12
Speaker 1: who did this, it was this person, and police can
18:15
Speaker 1: make an arrest. We've got to remember the sketch is
18:17
Speaker 1: the first new information released by authorities about the suspects
18:21
Speaker 1: of late February. All they distributed before were the two
18:25
Speaker 1: grainy images of a man walking along an old railroad
18:28
Speaker 1: bridge the girls had visited while hiking. They also released
18:31
Speaker 1: the audio to your point of the mail saying down
18:34
Speaker 1: the hill and this evidence was recorded on Liberty Germans
18:37
Speaker 1: cell phone. Now police have hailed her as a hero
18:41
Speaker 1: for recording this potentially crucial evidence, but it still remains
18:45
Speaker 1: what else happened there? And you know, by releasing that
18:48
Speaker 1: information maybe someone else out there will know more and
18:52
Speaker 1: can come forward and identify this person so police can
18:55
Speaker 1: make an arrest. What do you make of the Hopefully
18:58
Speaker 1: the recording the suspicion it off so they can get
19:01
Speaker 1: a voice example are also so between that and d
19:05
Speaker 1: n A they'll get the right person. Not a sketch
19:08
Speaker 1: released five months after the incident, where credibility. You know what,
19:14
Speaker 1: I would love, really love to shoot you down in court,
19:17
Speaker 1: but that's just not gonna happen. Just gonna have to
19:19
Speaker 1: do it right here on my new home. Serious x em.
19:24
Speaker 1: I'm proud to be there here and fight with your
19:26
Speaker 1: Richard Herman. Oxygen the new network for crying. My name
19:31
Speaker 1: is Kelly Sigler. I was a prosecutor for over twenty
19:34
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19:38
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19:41
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Speaker 1: cold to close. But you will always see un called
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Speaker 1: Justice is real to get the guilty person put away.
19:50
Speaker 1: There's not a better feeding in the whole world if
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Speaker 1: you're a law enforcement Cold Justice returns to July eight
19:55
Speaker 1: seven Central and Oxygen the new network for crime. And
19:58
Speaker 1: now we are heading for um Delphi to Hollywood. Okay,
20:04
Speaker 1: what a difference. Let me tell you. I learned all
20:06
Speaker 1: about Hollywood when I was out there doing my stint
20:09
Speaker 1: on Dancing with the Stars. Oh my stars. I would
20:14
Speaker 1: um practice eight to ten hours a day and come
20:18
Speaker 1: home and my feet would actually be bleeding, and the
20:22
Speaker 1: twins that my husband would be there and they go, oh,
20:24
Speaker 1: let's go, and I'd fall asleep in my clothes with
20:28
Speaker 1: the shoes still on. Be so tired. But I can
20:32
Speaker 1: tell you this about Hollywood. Everybody's perfect. All the women
20:35
Speaker 1: are tall with extensions all up down their back, and
20:40
Speaker 1: they're all skinny, and I mean, I've never seen anything
20:43
Speaker 1: like it. They also spend a lot of money out there.
20:46
Speaker 1: I know that stereotypical, which is wrong. I know that,
20:50
Speaker 1: but I mean the number of um imported cars, the mansions,
20:57
Speaker 1: the uh let me just say, Cement Ponds, Richard Herman.
21:01
Speaker 1: Now I'm not gonna throw that to Shaun Walsh because
21:03
Speaker 1: he's Australian, but um, I mean they live high on
21:08
Speaker 1: the hog. Let me just tell you in Hollywood, and
21:11
Speaker 1: it's come back to bite spice girl mailb in the neck.
21:16
Speaker 1: Can you at least back me up on this. The
21:18
Speaker 1: lifestyles in Hollywood, Perman right, The lifestyles in Hollywood are
21:23
Speaker 1: off the charts, and it's really hard for the normal
21:26
Speaker 1: person to understand and appreciate how they go about their
21:31
Speaker 1: daily living. And when you go into a matrimonial proceeding
21:35
Speaker 1: and the judge has to take into account the style
21:38
Speaker 1: with which the parties are living and then based an
21:41
Speaker 1: award on that, it can blow your mind and we
21:45
Speaker 1: look at Melby here. Okay, I don't know what you
21:49
Speaker 1: just said. You're talking lawyer talk. Okay, we're not in court, Richard.
21:54
Speaker 1: You're not in front of a federal judge spouting out
21:57
Speaker 1: legal terms. All right, let's get right down to it.
21:59
Speaker 1: Sean Sewan, wah day meil dot com Meilby. That's scary
22:04
Speaker 1: spice right, And isn't she like a judge on what's
22:08
Speaker 1: the show? She's got talent? Shed love that? Yes, yes,
22:15
Speaker 1: the twins are like crazy about that ship. Maylb number
22:19
Speaker 1: one married a guy named Stephen Belafanti. All right, so
22:24
Speaker 1: I thought for sure this is Harry Belafanti, the great
22:28
Speaker 1: musician's son. Oh no, oh no, this guy is a
22:33
Speaker 1: total poser. He took the last name Bella Fanti. Okay,
22:39
Speaker 1: why would he do that unless he wanted people to
22:41
Speaker 1: think he was related to Harry BELAFONTI can you tell
22:45
Speaker 1: me that, Shawn watch? Can we just start with that.
22:48
Speaker 1: In addition to him asking for what a hundred thousand
22:50
Speaker 1: dollars a month from Melby? He needs to go get
22:52
Speaker 1: a job, Sewan, He really needs to get a job.
22:55
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the guy whose real name is
22:57
Speaker 1: Steven Stansbury. I mean relation to Harry Belafonte at all. Um,
23:02
Speaker 1: he says he's a Hollywood producer and a director, and
23:06
Speaker 1: but he's in a very interesting past. I mean, this
23:08
Speaker 1: is someone who actually has a history of abuse allegations
23:11
Speaker 1: and two thousand and three was found guilty of assault.
23:15
Speaker 1: Said that for a moment, it satellite something somebody who
23:18
Speaker 1: put on a dating website. I've got an interesting past.
23:21
Speaker 1: But what you mean by that is bad stuff, right,
23:24
Speaker 1: the bad stuff. I mean, this is a guy was
23:26
Speaker 1: very interesting past, as I said, And I tell you
23:29
Speaker 1: he was charged back in two thousands three and found
23:31
Speaker 1: guilty of abusing an ex girlfriend who was the mother
23:34
Speaker 1: of one of his children. Um, and he completed a
23:37
Speaker 1: one year going too fast, I'm soaking this in like
23:40
Speaker 1: a sponge. Now, what did you say about mail Be's husband, Well,
23:45
Speaker 1: what in two thousand and three he was found guilty
23:50
Speaker 1: of spousal abuse when he abused, when he abused the
23:53
Speaker 1: mother of his child. What happened from there was he
23:57
Speaker 1: had to go and complete a spousal abuse pro program
24:00
Speaker 1: for a year. And Malbe is now saying you I
24:03
Speaker 1: didn't like him. I knew I did not like him.
24:08
Speaker 1: I mean he mel was granted a temporary restraining order
24:11
Speaker 1: against her ex on April three, after accusing him of
24:14
Speaker 1: physically and emotionally abusing her. She says that she was
24:17
Speaker 1: in fearful her he was talking about Bellefonte a break.
24:25
Speaker 1: Let me break this down, all right, you're telling me
24:28
Speaker 1: he was already convicted of abusing his last I guess
24:33
Speaker 1: girlfriend slash wife, the mother of his other child. Is
24:37
Speaker 1: that what you told me? That correct? In two thousand
24:40
Speaker 1: and three? And I wonder if Melby knew this when
24:44
Speaker 1: she hooked up with this guy. She knew? Okay, right there?
24:50
Speaker 1: Richard Harmon, Why where does he get the nerve to
24:55
Speaker 1: go in front of a judge and ask for all
24:58
Speaker 1: this money? What did he ask for? A hundred thousand
25:00
Speaker 1: dollars a month? But he asked me, yeah, he told
25:05
Speaker 1: the judge. We live a high, high cotton lifestyle here, judge,
25:08
Speaker 1: And I'm used to this. And after his wife working
25:11
Speaker 1: her fingers to the bone, well, she blew a multimillion
25:15
Speaker 1: pound fortune over the last ten years. And he needs
25:19
Speaker 1: money at least now temporarily for food, housing and other issues.
25:25
Speaker 1: So the judge awarded him forty thousand other issues. I'm
25:29
Speaker 1: looking at a picture of him right now, Richard Harmon.
25:32
Speaker 1: He looks like a fine, healthy young man to me.
25:35
Speaker 1: He's walking along, smiling for the cameras. And there's mail Base.
25:40
Speaker 1: She's got a big band aid on her face. I
25:42
Speaker 1: wonder where that's from anyway. But why can't he go
25:46
Speaker 1: get a job, well he why can't he support himself?
25:48
Speaker 1: Why does he have to mooch off his wife? I
25:50
Speaker 1: think he was acting as her manager, and I think
25:53
Speaker 1: they had a sorted history there with the nanny, the
25:56
Speaker 1: three of them and aliment. I think I'm losing memory.
26:01
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, you're giving me this pain. Wait a minute, manager,
26:08
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, her manager managing her? Checking nobody likes
26:16
Speaker 1: what is he managing? No good? Look at the extraordinary here.
26:20
Speaker 1: The two of them are spending fifty one thousand dollars
26:23
Speaker 1: a month on average. Now, let's just put this into context, Nancy,
26:27
Speaker 1: the US median household income household income is fifty five thousand,
26:33
Speaker 1: seven hundred and seventy five dollars per year, and those
26:37
Speaker 1: two are spending fifty one thousand dollars per month, and
26:41
Speaker 1: they're not even able to pay their tax bills. The
26:44
Speaker 1: judge slabbed that they still owe tax money from last year.
26:47
Speaker 1: The judges like, what is going on with you? Can
26:49
Speaker 1: somebody tell me what they're spending their money on. If
26:55
Speaker 1: he's her manager, why isn't he paying the taxman? You
26:59
Speaker 1: know when the woman does this, it's okay, but well
27:03
Speaker 1: he needs to manage the accountant. Don't even start that.
27:09
Speaker 1: Don't start that with me. Don't even try the whole
27:12
Speaker 1: reverse discriminations. She's working her rear end off. Did you know?
27:17
Speaker 1: Not only is she on Let's see what did you
27:19
Speaker 1: tell me? America's got talent in the U S? Is that?
27:23
Speaker 1: But she's on the X factor or has been on
27:26
Speaker 1: the X Factor in Britain. She's doing that too. This
27:30
Speaker 1: woman's got two jobs and flying back and forth trying
27:33
Speaker 1: to support this poser bellafante my rear end What did
27:37
Speaker 1: you say his name is? Was this real woman Stansbury?
27:40
Speaker 1: I think that's what we should call him, Steven stans
27:44
Speaker 1: It's like all the Rockefellers now, I like saying Bellafantie.
27:49
Speaker 1: Like the amount of money that these people say they
27:52
Speaker 1: need is ludicrous, Rod, Can I take you through a
27:54
Speaker 1: shopping list of what they spend their money on each
27:57
Speaker 1: monthy do oka Melby clames she needs twenty thousand dollars
28:02
Speaker 1: a month in childcare, five thousand a month in groceries
28:07
Speaker 1: and household supplies. She needs another She starts familiar with me.
28:14
Speaker 1: I can win my crop part. Okay, some lessons. You've
28:20
Speaker 1: seen my right part, Sean wash. You know I mean business.
28:24
Speaker 1: Remember I think I have a photo of you putting
28:27
Speaker 1: my head in your crop pot. Yeah, we did not
28:33
Speaker 1: serve that for dinner. I can tell you that much.
28:35
Speaker 1: Go ahead. They have they spend. She spends four thousand,
28:40
Speaker 1: four hundred nine dollars a month on eating out and
28:43
Speaker 1: one thousand, three hundred and thirteen dollars a month on
28:46
Speaker 1: movie shows, theme parks, etcetera. Now the court said they
28:51
Speaker 1: do not find these expenses credible or reasonable. But then
28:54
Speaker 1: he has his own expenses. He contends he needs two thousand,
28:58
Speaker 1: three hundred per month groceries and household supplies, seven hundred
29:03
Speaker 1: and fifty dollars for telephone, cell phone, and email. Clearly
29:07
Speaker 1: he doesn't know how to bundle his phone, internet and
29:10
Speaker 1: cell phones. And then he needs another two thousand a
29:13
Speaker 1: month for clothing, and then he needs three thousands for entertainment,
29:18
Speaker 1: gifts and vacation. Now, I doubt the average American family
29:22
Speaker 1: spends three thousand dollars a year on entertainment, gifts and vacations,
29:26
Speaker 1: let alone per month. Now. The court said they also
29:29
Speaker 1: don't find his expenses credible or reasonable. So the judge
29:33
Speaker 1: called out both of them. Let me just tell y'all something.
29:35
Speaker 1: The other night, I have been taking care of the
29:39
Speaker 1: twins all day. I have been working at a book deadline.
29:43
Speaker 1: I was trying to work on a project for a
29:45
Speaker 1: Hallmark movie. Was working like a maniac. And at the
29:50
Speaker 1: same time, I cooked dinner. And then David. He's still alive.
29:54
Speaker 1: I haven't killed him yet. He comes walking in cool
29:59
Speaker 1: bree He's all still like dressed up from the time
30:02
Speaker 1: when he left that morning. He goes, hey, let's go
30:05
Speaker 1: out tonight. I just wanted to just slap him right
30:09
Speaker 1: in the face. Of course, I didn't do it because
30:11
Speaker 1: I'm against violence, but my little hand was just tangling.
30:14
Speaker 1: I'm like, we are not going out and spending a
30:17
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars on something I don't really even
30:21
Speaker 1: know what they put in it. We are eating from
30:24
Speaker 1: the pot. Okay would have been an advertiser in the
30:30
Speaker 1: Bella Fonte mel Brown out, O how she put up
30:36
Speaker 1: with him this long? I don't know? Okay, so where
30:39
Speaker 1: does it stand right now? What's happening? He wants like
30:43
Speaker 1: a hundred grand a month or some crazy, crazy number,
30:48
Speaker 1: and the judge gives him what it's extraordinary. Um. The
30:53
Speaker 1: judge said that he didn't understand why both parties don't
30:56
Speaker 1: reduce their monthly expenses by living in their former marital
30:59
Speaker 1: home in West Hollywood. Now that would be perfect for
31:01
Speaker 1: both of them. Wait, neither one or living in the home.
31:05
Speaker 1: They're both just going to rentals. But that's a crime.
31:10
Speaker 1: That's the interesting part though. The court ordered that Melby
31:13
Speaker 1: pay him forty thou dollars a month um, and it's
31:17
Speaker 1: to be backdated to mate Wolves, where she also has
31:21
Speaker 1: to pay one hundred thousand dollars in legal fees for
31:24
Speaker 1: him and forty dollars in forensic accounting fees. And she's
31:28
Speaker 1: turned around and she said, no, I'm sorry. I really
31:31
Speaker 1: shouldn't have to pay someone who I'm accusing of domestic abuse.
31:35
Speaker 1: But the judges said, this is temporary for the moment
31:38
Speaker 1: you have to pay. Hold on, hold on. There's just
31:43
Speaker 1: so much does not always go to the swiftest. Wait
31:48
Speaker 1: a minute, what won't slow it down? I like Melby's argument.
31:52
Speaker 1: Did you hear that rich or she tells the judge,
31:54
Speaker 1: I don't think it's right that an abuse victim has
31:59
Speaker 1: to pay a the beater, the perpetrator, right. I think
32:05
Speaker 1: she's right. Why should she have to pay a guy
32:07
Speaker 1: forty grant a month that has beaten her? According to her, Well,
32:11
Speaker 1: that's kind of irrelevant for these Unfortunately, that's irrelevant. There's
32:21
Speaker 1: a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars met that she
32:24
Speaker 1: has that subject to the award. For him, he gave
32:27
Speaker 1: temporarily alimony for forty thousand dollars a month. Temporary. They're
32:33
Speaker 1: going to be back in court. And the lesson here,
32:36
Speaker 1: whether you're rich and famous or your poor, the lesson
32:39
Speaker 1: here is settle these matrimonial cases. Do not litigate them.
32:44
Speaker 1: Does the lawyers make a bundle on them? And in
32:46
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you know you're gonna get crushed.
32:49
Speaker 1: You've got to settle these things early on, upfront, and
32:53
Speaker 1: they're gonna they're gonna see the hard way. Everybody, Do
32:55
Speaker 1: you know what you just heard? You heard what high,
32:59
Speaker 1: high priced clients pay Richard Herman through the nose to do.
33:04
Speaker 1: He completely ignored my question and he started talking about
33:09
Speaker 1: something else, very earnestly. It totally had the ring of truth.
33:13
Speaker 1: In fact, what he said was true, and you walk
33:15
Speaker 1: away going, yeah, Richard Herman was right, Richard Herman, that
33:19
Speaker 1: is totally not what I even asked you. So the
33:23
Speaker 1: judge basically is telling this couple to limit. He's got
33:28
Speaker 1: to limit himself to forty dollars a month. Okay. They
33:33
Speaker 1: also are accusing each other of running off and hiding money.
33:39
Speaker 1: What are the claims? Do we know what the claims
33:41
Speaker 1: are on that sean, they're just saying that both of
33:44
Speaker 1: them are claiming that either party has run off with
33:48
Speaker 1: joint property that's worth anywhere from the hundreds of thousands
33:52
Speaker 1: to the millions of dollars. So there's a lot at
33:55
Speaker 1: stake here. It's not just the expenses, it's the property,
33:58
Speaker 1: it's future earnings because remember he claims his career is
34:02
Speaker 1: as her manager, so he wants a piece of that
34:04
Speaker 1: Melby Pie forever is her Man as much as he
34:09
Speaker 1: can get. I laughed because when I was going through
34:11
Speaker 1: this with my watch tonight, she said, you do this
34:13
Speaker 1: to me and I can assure you I'll have everything,
34:15
Speaker 1: and you'll be supporting yourself by playing the clarinet at
34:18
Speaker 1: Union Square? Do you think you make any man from
34:23
Speaker 1: law school? All I know is you remember from law
34:26
Speaker 1: school California's community property, state, community property, right down the middle,
34:33
Speaker 1: everything right, don't rub it in? And they stayed married
34:36
Speaker 1: just long enough for time really kick in? Haven't they
34:39
Speaker 1: been married ten years? So the judge is blasting Melby
34:46
Speaker 1: and the husband, Steven Standsbury slash Bellefonte, for exorbitant spending.
34:52
Speaker 1: Where do all the children land in this? How many
34:54
Speaker 1: children do they have together? They have one child together,
34:57
Speaker 1: and then she has two other children were of two
35:00
Speaker 1: other men. And he has another daughter with the ex
35:04
Speaker 1: girlfriend that he was guilty of assaulting, assaulting back in
35:08
Speaker 1: two thousand and three, the ring of that found guilty.
35:11
Speaker 1: You know, she really should have just stayed with Eddie Murphy.
35:15
Speaker 1: That's a whole other story. I mean, what's wrong with
35:20
Speaker 1: Eddie Murphy's good looking, he's funny, he's smarty. Yeah, he
35:27
Speaker 1: did denied fraternity. Yet that you kind of ruined it
35:29
Speaker 1: for me there, Sean, Thanks, you just ruined the whole
35:32
Speaker 1: scenario I have the leg out of my head. So
35:35
Speaker 1: where does it go from here? Do you know? Do
35:37
Speaker 1: we know? After this? Let's hope both parties get into
35:40
Speaker 1: a room with a very set of smart attorneys who
35:44
Speaker 1: encouraged them both to settle and walk away from each other.
35:48
Speaker 1: Adding shot, Richard Herman, you're not doing crock pots and Nancy,
35:52
Speaker 1: this is big bucks lifestyle, the rich things. That's how
35:55
Speaker 1: these divorces go. That's all you can say. That's how
35:58
Speaker 1: these divorces go. That's it, that's how they go. He's
36:01
Speaker 1: going to get every dollar. Reason right now. Listen, if
36:03
Speaker 1: I were your client, that's all you had to tell me.
36:05
Speaker 1: I demand that you. That's how these divorces go. Huh No,
36:12
Speaker 1: you know what. I am just you know, a felony prosecutor.
36:17
Speaker 1: But I would so get down and dirty on this.
36:22
Speaker 1: I would find out every single thing Bellafante has been
36:27
Speaker 1: up to. It goes both ways. But you know, actually
36:31
Speaker 1: maybe not now that I'm thinking about it, because you
36:35
Speaker 1: know what, she's too busy workie, she's on national TV
36:38
Speaker 1: trying to hold down two jobs. I doubt she's got
36:41
Speaker 1: a whole lot of time for let me just say gallivanting.
36:44
Speaker 1: She's too busy trying to support this husband of hers
36:47
Speaker 1: with his fake name. I've got to ask you guys
36:50
Speaker 1: about another case. It's about a woman who shoots her
36:57
Speaker 1: boyfriend dead, shoots him in the head and says as
37:03
Speaker 1: a defense, he asked me to. Okay, Richard, I've never
37:09
Speaker 1: heard that defense used before. Actually, a similar defense was
37:13
Speaker 1: used and assisted suicide and assisted suicide case with Cavorkian
37:19
Speaker 1: that was a long time ago. That's the only time
37:21
Speaker 1: I've ever heard that defense used and is completely different
37:25
Speaker 1: from this case. The girlfriend shoots her boyfriend in the head,
37:30
Speaker 1: in the forehead, and her defense, she tells police, well
37:33
Speaker 1: he asked me to is that what happened? What do
37:37
Speaker 1: you know about that defense? Have you ever heard it before?
37:39
Speaker 1: In those mercy killing pipe cases where people are dying
37:42
Speaker 1: to cancer, are they terminal illness? And and in this
37:45
Speaker 1: particular case, Nancy, you you have an intentional killing. I
37:49
Speaker 1: mean she took at and hit him point blank in
37:53
Speaker 1: the head, so you have she intended to do that.
37:56
Speaker 1: You have the intentional killing for murder. Here, the question
37:59
Speaker 1: is how is the mitigation? And you know it was
38:03
Speaker 1: he under such a strain, in such a stress that
38:06
Speaker 1: he thought his life was over and and he wanted her.
38:08
Speaker 1: He didn't have the strength, the courage or do it himself,
38:11
Speaker 1: so he went to the next closest person in his
38:13
Speaker 1: life is so called wife. He called her his wife
38:16
Speaker 1: and asked her to do it. And you know, they're
38:18
Speaker 1: going to parade in his social media where he's gloom
38:21
Speaker 1: and doom. It's the end of the world. Friends of
38:23
Speaker 1: his are going to come in and say that, Uh.
38:26
Speaker 1: You know, he was just so distraught and he couldn't
38:28
Speaker 1: get by. Each day he speared he was being bullied
38:31
Speaker 1: online and this cult was just taking over his life,
38:34
Speaker 1: and he was miserable. And he's a thirty two year
38:37
Speaker 1: old man. How is he being bullied online? You know,
38:40
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Sean Walls deal email dot com. He's
38:43
Speaker 1: a thirty two year old man, how is he being bullied?
38:46
Speaker 1: Interesting this case, this is a good looking young American
38:49
Speaker 1: couple who seemed to have everything they could like when
38:52
Speaker 1: you look at the photos on that Facebook account. But
38:55
Speaker 1: here he is online and he's claiming that an alleged
38:57
Speaker 1: cult leader by the name of Sherry Schreiner was abusing
39:00
Speaker 1: him on mine. She frequently rails online against fake news
39:04
Speaker 1: and lip tard's and the Democratic Party. I'm quoting her now.
39:08
Speaker 1: And his girlfriend has told friends that she was abusing
39:13
Speaker 1: her boyfriend online and he'd had enough of it. He
39:15
Speaker 1: wanted to escape from it, and so she is claiming
39:18
Speaker 1: that he asked her to kill him, which she did.
39:22
Speaker 1: Let me understand that she, the girlfriend, is the one
39:24
Speaker 1: bullying him online. No no, no, no, no, no, Okay,
39:29
Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense to me at all. The
39:31
Speaker 1: cult leader leader, Yeah, the cult leader a woman by
39:36
Speaker 1: the name of Sherry Shriner, and she is often online
39:40
Speaker 1: railing against fake news and the Democratic Party. And she
39:44
Speaker 1: was saying that nasty thinks about him online and he
39:48
Speaker 1: had enough of it, and so he went to his
39:50
Speaker 1: girlfriend allegedly this is what the girlfriend claims, and said,
39:53
Speaker 1: please end this. I want you to end this for
39:56
Speaker 1: me by killing me. And so she took gun and
40:00
Speaker 1: shot him in the fuehead and killed him. Okay, that's
40:03
Speaker 1: not gonna fly. Apparently he had been a member of
40:06
Speaker 1: his cult. Nancy what he had been a member of
40:08
Speaker 1: the cult, and then they threw him He had been
40:10
Speaker 1: a member of the cult, and then they threw him
40:13
Speaker 1: out and his girlfriend. So even neither one of them
40:17
Speaker 1: appeared to be playing with a full deck here. But look,
40:20
Speaker 1: I don't know the diminished capacity aspect of this. I
40:22
Speaker 1: know we've talked so many cases about that, but you
40:26
Speaker 1: know there is some mitigation here, and it will be
40:28
Speaker 1: a whole side show in court to see what kind
40:31
Speaker 1: of state of mind he was in. And you know
40:34
Speaker 1: it's only to mitigation what this brings. He asked me,
40:41
Speaker 1: pretty sure, I know the B S when I smell
40:44
Speaker 1: at the B. Sameter is going off like mad right now,
40:47
Speaker 1: because it doesn't matter or if some other woman was
40:51
Speaker 1: bullying him online. Uh, because somebody says, just shoot me now,
40:57
Speaker 1: I mean, that's not a defense. That is not a
41:00
Speaker 1: defense in our jurisprudence system. He asked me to. Oh,
41:07
Speaker 1: it goes to mitigation that sentences. There's no just stuttered.
41:12
Speaker 1: I am so happy I heard that he went up.
41:16
Speaker 1: You had to think for just one moment. Okay, now
41:21
Speaker 1: you know that's not a defense under the law, he
41:23
Speaker 1: asked me to. It doesn't matter if she was in
41:26
Speaker 1: a cult, if he had been in a cult, they're
41:28
Speaker 1: not involved in this. She shot him in the head,
41:32
Speaker 1: and she confessed when asked by police. She said, he
41:37
Speaker 1: asked me too, that's not a defense, Richard. No, he
41:41
Speaker 1: asked me to because he was so distraught. He could
41:45
Speaker 1: not get up go on with his life. He was
41:47
Speaker 1: absolutely miserable. He was hadn't putting on social media. It's
41:51
Speaker 1: the end of the world. Prepare yourselves, it's over. The
41:54
Speaker 1: man was just falling apart, and in order to put
41:57
Speaker 1: him out of his misery, he asked her. He begged her,
42:00
Speaker 1: please take me out of my misery. Please do this.
42:04
Speaker 1: It's like the mercy killing cases, Nancy. That's how it's
42:06
Speaker 1: goes to mitigation. The cult leaders come out now and
42:09
Speaker 1: she's been releasing messages on social media where she says
42:13
Speaker 1: I warned him that she was a super soldier who
42:16
Speaker 1: would kill him and move on. I mean, there's so
42:19
Speaker 1: many degrees are crazy here, Nancy. I can't even outline
42:22
Speaker 1: them all. And she says, Look, they're trying to spin
42:25
Speaker 1: this that I'm responsible for his death. It was he
42:29
Speaker 1: thought it was a religious group, it's but it's it's Look, Nancy,
42:35
Speaker 1: it's a crazy cult. That's all I can say. There's
42:37
Speaker 1: so many different things wrong with this when you read
42:39
Speaker 1: into it. I mean, there's no there's no is it
42:41
Speaker 1: a doomsday call? It's a doomsday cold. But there's so
42:44
Speaker 1: many other things that they're railing on about. They really
42:46
Speaker 1: don't have a strategic set of key messages. So Richard Hermon,
42:49
Speaker 1: what they were. What she really need is for you.
42:52
Speaker 1: It's like lawyer to come in and convince the jury
42:55
Speaker 1: that this was a mercy killing. Sean. Please make a
42:59
Speaker 1: note of this. I'm never going to ask somebody please
43:02
Speaker 1: just shoot me. Okay, that's not going to happen, So
43:05
Speaker 1: don't let my husband jump up and argue that one day. Now,
43:10
Speaker 1: you've got it right here on Serious Nancy Grace Crime Stories.
43:14
Speaker 1: Signing off, goodbye friend,