Latest / Outdoor Journal Radio: The Podcast / Episode 241: Saving Animals Shouldn’t Be This Dangerous

Transcript

Episode 241: Saving Animals Shouldn’t Be This Dangerous · Outdoor Journal Radio: The Podcast

• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: This episode of Outdoor Journal Radio is brought to you in part by the Invasive Species Center, protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Freedom Cruise Canada, rent the boat, own the memories.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: And JMB Cycle a Marine, your home for all things power sports, boats, and equipment.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: And now, another exciting episode in the adventures of Outdoor Journal Radio.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, thank you.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I wish that was stressed, but it's because we have a special guest coming up very shortly.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's why you're throwing all those accolades.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: You figure?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds yeah.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Joining us in a few moments, uh, kids, will be Dr.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Cliff Redford.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: He's been on the program before, and I got a feeling he's going to be a regular.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he is the uh veterinarian from Markham, Ontario.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he has a clinic there, uh Wellington Veterinary Hospital in Markham, Ontario.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: But more importantly, and certainly why he's on this program, is he is a worldwide traveler as he pursues his passion.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: His passion is taking care of animals, and he does so in war-torn countries, third world countries where they may not have the best uh abilities there to treat these animals.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: He goes there and does it uh free of charge, from what I'm told.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: He does it for fun.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, well, you know, it would be fun, wouldn't it?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he's also an author.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Last time he was on the program, he told us he was going to put a book out, and that book is now out.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: He's gonna tell us about it.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: So he's now an author.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he is now officially an author.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: The book is called uh Far and Wild is the name of the book.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, he'll tell us all about it here in a few minutes.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Far and Wild, Adventures of the World Wide Vet.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like he's playing on that a few words there.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: I like that type.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's good.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Tells you everything.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Don't even need to read a book now.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, I well, you know me.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't read anyways, but uh that's fine.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing wrong with that.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: He's probably I'm hoping he has one in uh like an audio book or something that we can that's that's right up on our while we're traveling.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: We can play that on our roads.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's already it's already in the vault.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: And how was your vacation, by the way?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was wonderful.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: You were away ago now, but it was uh We missed you.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was good.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you're on vacation every month, it seems now.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like you got monthly.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're kind of like uh Dr.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Clifford.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe he maybe he's got some openings.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe I could put an approach.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe he'll find out.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: Where are we at?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm through myself off.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the shop.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: How about that store we can talk about?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Store the store.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Store the store.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: How about that?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: How about that?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I got even one better.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna come over and give it to you right now.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: No, don't give me that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, come over and give it to you.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Hello.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: What the heck is going on?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: When is a walleye a pickerel when it's a pike?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Damn it.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's the t-shirt available right now on uh the store.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: And what is that?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Look what he is.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: You gonna open it?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: You want him to open it up?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: You have to actually open it.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: How are we gonna sell it when I open it?
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: How are we gonna sell this?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's his size, it's Nick's size.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: He can he can I might as well take it off your hands and.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I can't sell an open product, but for marketing purposes, I could wear it.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Talk amongst yourselves, sir, while I get it.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the new gator hoodie.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: We got a couple requests for this one from you guys, so we made a pike.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the muskie is still in development and needed a little tender love and care, but this one came out just perfectly.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: As you can see, you're on this wonderful heathered background with a delightful forest green arm, this two-tone look.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's just that is a nice hoodie.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: I got it.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's awesome.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's like an all-new color scheme.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: All new color scheme.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: The boys in Brantford did uh boys and girls in Brantford did a very, very good job on this hoodie.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: I like that.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's something it's my new favorite.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's my new favorite.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I like the gray, I like the green, the inlays gray.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Nice job.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: For those of you who have not uh who don't own one of these, not this particular one, but one of the hoodies that uh we're selling on the site.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: All I can tell you as is from a former uh retailer that sold a lot of garments.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: This has one of the best hands.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: What?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: Hands?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what you call the feel.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: How are the feet?
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: What is that thing you say in the wine?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: What is there's something about wine too?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: There's uh those little legs.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: Legs, you got legs and wine, hands is what the hell's going on.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: One of the best hands I've ever I've ever had in a garment.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: It just feels like you want to wrap yourself up in it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: They are they're the most comfortable hoodie I've ever worn, that's for sure.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Now, what would a price uh can we put a price on that?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: Can we can the people?
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: What the value is probably thousands of dollars.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Can we can we let our people know that uh what is we gotta pay for just a low low$59.99.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: $59.99.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, nuts.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's your your a way better hand, like the Nike hoodie.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of Nike, I don't few Adidas.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: The hand, the inside actual feel of the hoodie is better than the rest.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is the best I've had.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Dean just took it away and now it's his.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: So he's a large, right?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: Too.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: I got more in the back of course.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: I got more in the back.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: You got any show off, any mediums lately?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh listener feedback in response to our discussion on uh weather uh 16 foot is too small for the Great Lakes.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I knew we were gonna get some objections to this, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: But that's good.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Napoleon John 88.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: Nap, John 88.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: What did we say, Dean?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Do you remember what we said?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_05: We said it's doable, but we cannot recommend it to anyone who's not very familiar with the water and very careful.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_05: And we so we said that we have to done it in the past, and in fact, we have an episode coming out in the new year where we are we're not quite in the Great Lakes, we're in Georgian Bay, but at the mouth.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, um, we were in a tenor like this, but if you're not experienced and aren't very careful, uh we we don't recommend it.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_05: We're good.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: We're well, we were pretty good then.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we said everything we needed to.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Nab John88 via YouTube says 16 is too small for Great Lakes.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: I have a 21 foot, and some days it's small for waves or changes in weather.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: That very much could be true some days.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I agree 100%.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Any boat can be too small or too big.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's great.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: There is no minimum or maximum.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: The the salmon boys, I was talking to a salmon boy the other day, a couple of them, and they both have 30 close to 40 footers, and they say there's days they don't go out there.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: 40 footers, absolutely can't.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: So uh another one uh from at Mateo Hogback.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I like that one.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Mateo hogback.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: I love that's a great name.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh via YouTube.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, both of these are via YouTube.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are we feedback?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's feedback.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: Huh?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Feedback.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Feedback.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: They're not asking questions.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: They're not asking.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad we're not asking because we have to give, right?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: If they were to ask, we'd have to give.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's been claimed already twice, all right.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: The last 30 seconds.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: Mateo Hogback via YouTube says, I think that uh maybe too general of a statement.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: 16 foot is fine for extremely calm.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_03: So Mateo is uh is commenting on John's on the F 21.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: He's pro, he's pro 16 footers by sounds of it.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: However, you have to know how to read clouds and have detailed forecasts available.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, even with a large boat, the Great Lakes can be extremely dangerous if not paying attention.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, a smaller boat severely hinders the number of days you can take it out.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: But smaller boats can be very enjoyable fishing from under the correct conditions from under the correct conditions.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: And he's right, he's exactly what we said.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: Really, you gotta use your head, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: So you gotta use your brain.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, 21-footer is nice for you can get out on bigger waves, maybe than on a 16, but if you use your head and uh and uh fish smart and exactly that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Watch the weather, watch the wind forecast.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: There's uh there's buoys.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: You can actually there's uh I think there's a uh an app or something you can get that uh in Whitby for instance, there's a buoy out in Whitby that you can get the reading off of that buoy at any time if you're if you're uh subscribed to this or whatever like that to know the winds, you know what I mean, and et cetera, et cetera.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: So common sense.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Common sense.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: Common sense.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only tool man needs to navigate around the world on a surfboard.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Common sense.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: How's that?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I happens to do.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Those surfers, you ever see them in Hawaii on the Olympic stuff?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Common sense.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: 30 footers.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: Far too often people don't have common sense.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know it sounds like somebody say, well, everybody's got common sense.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they don't.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: No, they don't.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: They don't.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: The bottom line is they don't.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: So they push it, we push it.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: We as humans, uh, yeah, I can do this, yeah, I can do that, but you you can't, and you shouldn't.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And common sense tells me that if uh we aren't familiar with the invasive carp uh deal going on in Canada, we sure as hell need to be.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: Common sense would say after enough of podcasts, you and I are pretty aware of these uh invasive fishies.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in the meantime, invasive species.ca is where you need to be.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: How about invasive carp.ca?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: I like that one more.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: Let's do that.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: Let's do that one instead.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they have both, eh?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: They have both.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: Did you know that?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh in the news, brought to you by J O V, uh, your good friends.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: He writes it down for us, and we still get it wrong.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: You're good.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh all right, get to the news.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, the news, but you're my newsman, too.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: J and B cycle marine in Timmins uh and in Sudbury, correct?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_03: That is correct.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's who brings us this.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: This news uh this is a pretty cool uh news story.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: Lake Trout and Lake Superior.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's called Lake Trout, quote, zombie land uh discovered in Lake Superior.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I could uh go ahead and just butcher.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: You could just butcher it up, but you won't, will you?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: There's a uh species of lake trout.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there's a subspecies of lake trout all around there.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Have we got any pictures of some subspecies of uh a lake trout or or what you call are they called subspecies?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: What is it called?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: There.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: The Humper.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, of course you would.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_05: So that they're they're not quite subspecies.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_05: They're it's more it's gested to its appearance.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not a different species of trout ex essentially, but it it is scientific.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like there's enough of them in the same area that they do kind of like at least a biologist would know the difference between them.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: So the in this this story is about the sisquet, the giant fat one in the middle there, like that, of Lake Superior.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: These fish apparently um uh use the the most deep, the deepest areas of Lake Superior to live in, and they have an extra layer of fat.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Now that fat is obviously I would think it'd be to do with uh insulation number one and for flotation, right?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they use that for the flotation.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_05: That's what allows them to travel into the deep like the deep water and then get back up when they need to.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Now it says here that they it gets a 1300 feet deep.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: Now, is superior gets that deep?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, apparently, yeah, it does.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: Can these fish get that deep?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_05: There's no way.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so they've Siscoet can do that?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_05: They've recorded them, and I think it mostly has to do with what they find in their stomachs with like the deep water sculpin and stuff like that.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_05: But whatever is down in that depth.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_05: Which would suggest they're bottom feeding down there, which is pretty crazy.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_05: So so they're feeding at these depths.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_05: So they're a Ciscoette, they're almost exclusively found deeper than 200, um, but they think they can go all the way to the bottom.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: So which is insane because if we go to when we go to Great Bear, Great Slave, when we go to any of our lake trout lakes that we're fishing on, we rarely fish over a hundred, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, 120 would be the deepest I think I've ever tried, targeted them there, and that's a either a gray, what they call gray trout.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure if it's a a lean one here or whatever, or the redfin, or the red fins.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: We've done that many times too, but that's rarely is it it's usually we look for under 100 feet as well, right?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: So to see them down this this deep.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Now, is it a decline in food, Dean?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: What's going on?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so essentially what they've been finding in this area, I can show you where it is.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_05: This is the area they were studying.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_05: Um wow.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_05: They found a lot of these Sisquat Lake trout that are kind of depleted, so they're so skinny that they actually lose the buoyancy to be able to get back up to where they need to be to feed at certain times of the year.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_05: So they're getting kind of stuck out deep.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: For those of you wanting to a better reference, uh, that's where the Edmund Fitzgerald could have gone to save itself, right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it's probably down there.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_05: No, it when I it went past it, right?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: About 15 more miles.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: 15 more miles behind her.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so yeah, so that's the area they've studied.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, they don't know if this is kind of like a widespread thing throughout the whole lake, but it's not um it's not necessarily an urgent story that there you know is this massive issue.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_05: It's just interesting that one, I didn't know that the fat content on the fish was what makes them buoyant.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_05: I was gonna mention that.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they have a swim bladder.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Every fish has a swim bladder, and that's what all other including the regular lake, other other lakes out there, would use to make their buoyancy.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a scuba diver.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: When we're scuba diving, it's just the exact same thing.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: E C.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we have an artificial one, they have one built in.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Buoyancy compensator.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: And um E C I had no idea that the fat you'd think that they're being fat, you'd think obviously sink, man.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: They're so heavy.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much but obviously to me, fat fat, I'm thinking fat is is is very buoyant.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: When you're cooking with it or something, you see it float to the top, right?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it's buoyant for sure.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: And the other thing, so for anglers, siscoet aren't caught very often.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_05: So um, from my understanding, anyways, most of what you're catching at superior are would be the lean lake trout or the red fin.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_05: The smaller lake trout, um, they're called humpers, they're the ones like out on the humps and shoals and stuff, but they're like I think they're under like three pounds, like they're pretty small lake trout normally.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_05: The the Ciscoette, I think historically were used for like oils and stuff, like the natives would use them for oil.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, the fat, right?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I think um like commercial fishing, you might come across them if you're out in deep water, but I don't think anglers are finding these fish very often, anyways.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you one thing that another thing that this guy beside me and I have discovered on those trips of way up northwest territories, and that is that there's usually two species there that we know of.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: There's what they call the gray trout and they call the red fin trout.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: And those red fins right there that are pictured there are the toughest sons of bitches that we've ever caught.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: They're never they're never as big.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we never I don't think we got one over 20, over 20 pounds, or barely over 20 pounds.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: Usually they're in 10 to 15 pound range.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: You swear you have a 30-pound uh gray lake trout on when they when they hit you.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: They hit they fight so hard.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: So they're a very cool and they look so neat.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Those fins are they almost brook trout looking.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: They're so you know char looking, they're so nice looking.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: But they're all one species.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: They're all one species, they're all lake trout.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're all lake trout.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: I I I still don't know if if it's a subspecies, the red fin I'm talking about up north, or it's just size and time of day, time of year.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: It could be I don't I don't know whether size.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, we get them both though.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know whether whether whether you can get a 50 pounder with red fins.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking by that size, maybe that's the thing.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't think you can.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think I don't think it's been documented.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Those 50s are all the big you know, that looking like that cisquish.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: Anyways, it's uh uh to be traveling down that deep is just to me, that's the most inner part of the story.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: How do they it's not any the other thing that blows my mind is how can any human, human or animal being type of any kind alive, withstand the pressure at 1,300 feet.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: And be able to come back 300 and all that.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, never mind that, but just how do you not collapse onto yourself?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, we can't even send down uh uh robotic submarines to those depths without the concern of total collapse, and that's a steel or whatever materials they use to make the outer shell and and the framework and so how does a trout not collapse on itself in that way?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, these very quickly, Dean, will these fish though not adapt if they say their fat content is not allowing them and they and they've somehow evolved to going down to 500 feet, 400 feet?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: Will they not be able to live with that?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_05: I think they can live.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_05: It's just kind of a cycle where once they're down there and you start to lose weight, you're gonna continue losing weight because the food source down there is so lean, too.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Like when you die down there.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_05: Like I have to think burbit would be a big part of their diet at certain times of the year, and you're not gonna get burbit down there.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_05: I'm assuming I would have to do to look into a little more.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_05: I I know they can live down there on some of the deeper water stuff, but a lot of those fish aren't very big, and there's not a whole lot down there.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_05: Sculpins, they're not big at all.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: So interesting.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: 1,300 feet.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: I can't even imagine that is absolutely scary.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot imagine.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: All right, fan question of the week submitted by Brent uh Reynolds.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Brent Reynolds 5381 via YouTube.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: There you go, buddy.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: Do we have some YouTube sound?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Some sounds, some music.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: The YouTube Oh is that for sound throw the rest of them in, Dean.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: Oh boy.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: I yearn for uh what's his name?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Cliff.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: Coming up very shortly.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, anyways, okay.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: It'll come to me.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Brent Reynolds, 5381 via YouTube, says need some help.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: I frequently fish Lake Ontario from uh Durham Region up to PEC.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's uh Prince Edward County.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's very good.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: I always end up very good.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: Says uh Mr.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Napanee there.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: Uh always end up catching some real nice brown bullheads.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: But would love to target and catch Channel Cat in the lake.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: I am falling miserably, failing miserably, and was wondering if you can share some tips on the areas I should be focusing on and how to catch them.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Keep up the great work, boys.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Always a blast watching the podcast.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much, Mr.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Reynolds.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Brent.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: Brent Reynolds.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: And and he's watching us right now.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: The only suggestion I can make on this area-ish is the Prince Edward County area.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: The only place that I have ever consistently caught and heard of catching channel cats is in the Bay Aquinie.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: And the Bay Aquinie has a lot of them.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: And they have a nice population of good-sized ones, too.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: I've never seen any absolute giants in there, but as we've seen, if you can if you can catch a 10 and 12 pounders, then there's probably 15 and pluses out there.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, and it's it there's no set area in the Bay Aquinine.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: We have caught them right from the Napanee River, speaking of Napanee, from the Napanee River, right through the Long Reach, and then um towards the Trenton.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: The Trenton, the Trent River's got a lot of current.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: And that I've tried in the Trent River one time, couldn't catch them there.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: I did literally try for it, and I couldn't get them going.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: I went up to the rapids, but I didn't want to get too close up in there.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I to me the Bay Aquini, or if you went the other way west from where you are, is to Dunville, the Dunville area, the Grand River.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really well we know that one.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: That one's a uh great channel cat fishery out there.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: But other than that, I don't know um any lakes like do you ever hear of lakes like Skugog or anything producing channels?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Not at all.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Channels are predominantly Great Lakes fish.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be honest about it.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: If you're gonna if you're going to target uh channel cat, you gotta be in a either either something adjacent to the Great Lakes, like the Trent River that you just mentioned, something something that has close proximity, or out in the Great Lakes themselves, like like uh Belleville Kingston area.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard of some big channel cats coming out of the Kingston area.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And but then again, I've heard of giant walleye, giant, small boat, giant, everything coming out of the Kingston area.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there is that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not a uh shock.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I think anywhere on the St.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Lawrence, too, uh, would be prime area.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think more than anything else, they're everywhere, but I think the fact that most of us don't target them is why we don't see that many.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if you want to if you want to stand a chance at catching one of these giant channel cats, you got to find out where they live.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and usually where they live is near the bottom.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that means that you've got to present baits that are going to be either on bottom or a foot or so above.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're fishing them much much like sturgeon, to be honest with you.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you could for sure.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And and or stripers, uh, where they're dropping baits down, you know, uh 60, 70 feet on a heavy drop shot, a heavy drop shot rig with a big chunk of meat.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's where you have to fish for them.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if we do that, you'll you'll definitely start um catching more.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: But first thing you gotta do is put yourself in the body water that has them, and certainly Lake Ontario, any of the components that we just talked about of Lake Ontario.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: We've heard of them being caught at the mouth of the Niagara River.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: As a matter of fact.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Quite frequently.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: So get yourself in an area that has them and then rig up the presentation that's going to catch them.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that means you've got to be on the bottom.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: No matter where you are, you got to be fishing these things off the bottom.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: I remember I remember using chick.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: I was fishing the Ottawa River, chicken levers.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: And man, they started to stink by the end of the day and they got good.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: The fish they don't they like them better when they started stinking.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: So well, it's true, right?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're very scent-oriented.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: I mean uh channel cats, I think, rely.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we had Big Bubba in the tank.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he was pretty much blind.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that fish could not see.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: But boy, I'll tell you, he could sure smell.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so scent is the big ticket there.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, like you said, something that's gone off uh usually um usually calls the bit at least to it's gone off a bit to take a sniff.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: But more importantly, it's location.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: You got to get it on the bottom.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: And uh nothing short of presenting that bait on the bottom is gonna work.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's fun.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: Let me tell you, Brent.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's fun when you get onto some channel cats.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now, now, not to bring technology into this, but I would think that if I were hunting channel cat and I was in a hundred feet of water, and I'm just using that as an example, I would think I would be looking uh to use my forward-facing um live scope unit.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because think about it, you'll see that thing right on the bottom or off just slightly off the bottom.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: You can drop your bait that 100 foot right down.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: You can put oh, right in close to them.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Is uh is that a qualifier for you?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: That question.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_05: That is a qualifier.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: Is that a uh contender for you?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: I say yay for me.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: Anyone else?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I loved it.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I uh I'm a big fan.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_03: I love channel cats.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's very underestimated, so I think four yeses.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: Give me that.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: What you gotta do now is reach out to us on our Instagram or Facebook.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's the quickest way you're gonna get a response from me, and then I can get you your$50 to distow.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: This episode is brought to you by Sale.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sale is proudly Canadian and stocked with over a hundred Canadian brands you know and love.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: From rods and reels to sonars to kayaks and every last lure you've seen on the Fish in Canada show, Sale has all the gear to get you on the water.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Drop into one of 12 stores across Ontario and Quebec and talk to the real fishing specialist or gear up online anytime at Sale.ca.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Sale, the ultimate destination for your outdoor adventures.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: All right, now to the man, the doctor, who may be the only person on the planet who's ever administered CPR to a fish.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: And we're gonna find out.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right, too.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh welcome to the program, Dr.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Cliff Redford, uh Canadian veterinarian and owner of Wellington uh veterinary hospital in Markham, Ontario, and author and all kinds of good stuff.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's got a new book he wants to talk about.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the program clip.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for having me, guys.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, you got a lot going on, man.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, busy fella.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm compensating for something for sure.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: So my therapist says.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: How do you have any time to work on?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I'm assuming you're still practicing.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: You don't just own the clinic.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm assuming you also work in the clinic.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm here right now.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is in between appointments.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if something goes crazy, if I got another fish I have to do CPR to, I gotta get out of here.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta you gotta tell us that story.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get over, let's get that over with right away, please.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I've got this book that's out now, Far and Wild, and it tells about the stories of me around the world volunteering.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was in Jamaica, we had a bit of a morning off.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I was snorkeling up near um uh James Bond Beach, uh, up in up in uh like the northern coast of Jamaica.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's a there's a place called James Bond Beach, which is where Ursula Andrews came out of the water in Dr.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Noah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Come on now.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: The most beautiful woman in the world, arguably the most beautiful, I don't think arguably, the most beautiful Bond girl.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, she comes out of the water and and Sean Connery's there, and it was the first time a bikini was on like the big screen.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, thank goodness it was a big screen.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh anyway, so we're we're snorkeling in James Bond Beach, and there's there's these uh like leftover nets that are just floating through the water, just garbage, right?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I got my buddy and he's filming because you know nothing happens unless you film it, and he's got his little GoPro underwater, and we're just goofing off.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I see this black fish, that's all I know about it, this little black fish, and he's caught in the net, and I pull him out, and he's not moving, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like you let him go and he sinks.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I start what the camera guy, Gaia, thinks I'm playing with this dead fish because I'm like bringing it through the water and pushing it forward and whatnot.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys know that I'm bringing water through the gills.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And slowly I can feel it start to come to life, you know, or wake up in my hands.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: And again, he's filming me thinking I'm just being sadistic, playing with this dead fish.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then I bring it up to the camera and I let go, and he swims off and darts to the side, and all of a sudden you're just like, Oh my god, you're fixing fish as well.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: So uh yeah, I guess you could say it was CPR maybe.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh that's my story.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sticking to it.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Great story, man.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: I guess it's kind of a it's kind of a mouth to mouth resuscitation without the mouth.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was expecting a little more of that, or maybe you know, beating, beating on the tree.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've done that a few times with other animals, but never with yeah, never with fish.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't get my tongue into the gill, that's the problem.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: A little moat to moat with Ursula Anders wouldn't hurt a guy either, would it?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I would not be opposed to that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I gotta do what I gotta do for the camera.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Easy, boys.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Down, boys.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: So, all right, so you got this new book, and I'm assuming that the bulk of the uh uh research was has been done on your travels around the world working with other veterinarians and third world countries and that kind of thing.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is there anything in the book?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: What what's the most uh, in your opinion, the most interesting story in that book?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh I'm gonna do another James Bond reference.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I edited after I'd written the book and I and I eventually found a publisher after the book was done.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, they said, all right, you gotta cut about 20% of it out because you talk too much in this book.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's too many stories.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I also moved near the ending a section to the beginning to the prologue so that it literally starts with a bang.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it is when I am volunteering in Kharkiv, Ukraine, and eastern Ukraine.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, this was four years ago, plus a bit.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: So during the war, there's Russian thunder, as we call it, going on all day around us.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: So bombings and whatnot.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the clinic I'm working at while I'm doing surgery, the clinic would shake when these bombs were landing close to us.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I opened with this scene, and it's in the audio book as well.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have an audio book that I narrated, and and I took audio from a video where a a you know, another missile attack happens, and it happens right a couple hundred feet from my apartment, the Airbnb I was renting.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: And like a dummy, I I know I'm a you know, uh, I'm I'm maybe not as smart as I look.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um but I went to the window to film thinking this uh barrage, this missile uh attack was over, and it wasn't.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And this thing, you know, lands really close to the to the window and shakes it and scares the you know what out of me.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I got the whole thing on camera.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And spoiler alert, I survived.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but that is, you know, it's not an animal rescue.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the stories are animal rescue, but this is uh more of a of uh idiocy, a veterinarian who's an idiot who goes to eastern Ukraine and uh gets himself into trouble.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm fascinated with the fact that during the war that uh folks are still thinking about animals.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think the animals are as they're are almost as important as people to people.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: Like during the war, it's very like I know, but you did they're part of your family, they literally are.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's amazing that it just shows.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: And you and you saw fit to go there.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: You had all the places that you could have gone.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, you wanted to go and have some bombs dropped around you.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I had just gotten back from a volunteer trip in Panama.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was right when it was like February of 22, when the the world was just opening up again, you know, you could travel.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then the war hit, and I had heard these stories about people trying to evacuate Ukraine, and they brought their animals with them.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're going into Poland and then, you know, off to Italy or Germany or wherever.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And they have these animals, and for understandable reasons, when they ran, they didn't grab their vaccine certificates or you know, anything like that.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the Polish government didn't want them to pass through unless they knew their animals were vaccinated against rabies and were healthy.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that was my first trip as I went to the border to actually help people.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: As a veterinarian, I could help people because they weren't gonna leave unless their animals could go with them.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I fell in love with the people and and decided, okay, I'm going back, but this time I'm going into the war zone, where the veterinarians had left Harkiv, but the animal rescue groups had stayed.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so they had no veterinarian, and there you go.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I jumped in there and helped out and learned a lot and got a cool tattoo out of it from the uh from the military group I was working with.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I got their logo on my arm and nice.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: I get I get tattoos like wherever, wherever I'm going, I got different, you can't really see them, but um, you know, from Jamaica and Panama and India and Ukraine and a few other places, but I definitely can't show you those.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: How'd you hear about that opening for that job, let's say?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: There's no vets there.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: How did you hear about that?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, at this point, I'd already been traveling and volunteering for five or six years.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been to Jamaica, Greece, uh, India, Egypt, and Panama, and then was doing a lot of volunteer work in northern Ontario as well.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And um people started reaching out to me.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: So when I went to Ukraine and the Canadian media lost their minds.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was uh for the five days before I actually jumped on a plane, every single news outlet was uh was reaching out to me.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And word got out, and then when I got back from Ukraine, this it was honestly just this rescue group reached out to me, Animal Rescue Harkiv.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um they probably knew some people here in Canada, and they reached out to me.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think they were pretty surprised when I replied.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I did some due diligence, you know, did some research.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to make sure, I wanted to make sure when I went there that there would be work for me to do and that there would be the infrastructure that I could actually do work.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't going to vacation.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I needed to take some time be, you know, to kind of get permission from my wife.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was gonna ask you that next question.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, pay pay for the first trip because you know, I I go on these trips and my my business, my clinic, thank goodness I'm not corporate.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my business that I own completely uh paid for these trips, so I had to pay off some bills.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, basically rescues reach out to me and and I decide, is there a need?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do I actually want to go there?
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I kind of go to places that are just culturally significant or or or interesting, right?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then is there going to be the infrastructure?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like in this situation, there was a veterinarian clinic.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And although I did smuggle some drugs into Ukraine, they had the drugs that I needed.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I knew I could I could do a lot of work, and it was uh it was an amazing story.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was an amazing time.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: You just took two of the questions I was gonna ask you.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: One was like, How do you are you married?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: And the other one is how do you get permission to do all this stuff?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty crazy, though.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, the nice thing about the marriage is uh, you know, again, spoiler alert, but it's okay for for the people listening to this.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on my second marriage.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and for anyone who's on their second marriage, I think they can say that the uh second wife doesn't care as much if you're if you're gonna go and do something crazy.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: They they had a life, she had a life before me.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh if something goes wrong, she's gonna have a life after me.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like she knew what she was getting into.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I I I'm generally not a ask permission kind of guy, which may be why I'm on my second marriage.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's quite possible.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, I just I just go for it.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just tell people this is what I'm gonna do, and I'm gonna take every precaution uh other than going to the window during a missile uh attack.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm gonna take every reasonable pop precaution.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, although it stresses out my family, um, they're all very proud of me.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: So oh, no kidding, man.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm proud of you.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know you that well.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Good for you.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: What's the uh most dangerous veterinary work that you've ever done?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: War not included in that conversation, but you know, on the animal itself.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Have you worked on any really scary moments with animals?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a couple.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I did my very first wildlife sort of surgery was on my first trip in Jamaica, and it was to remove the eye from an American crocodile.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: So this crocodile we called him one-eyed Jack.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh after the fact, we called him one-eyed Jack.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: He had been shot in the eye uh by a frightened farmer with a spear gun, um, the brought to the zoo.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then, and I had said, Look, I've never I've never done surgery, I've taken the eye out on a dog many times.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've never done the surgery on a crocodile, and they said, Pretend it's a dog with a dry skin condition, and you'll be fine.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and they were kind of right, but that was that was a little dangerous, not too bad.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was a little dangerous.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: By far, though, the the biggest, the most dangerous one, and again, this is me jumping into things without necessarily checking the depth of the water, uh, was when I uh was attacked by he didn't bite me, but he tried uh by a dog that had rabies.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and although I'm vaccinated against rabies, nothing's perfect.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this was a situation where I should have known the dog was rabid from all the signs.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, his name wasn't Cujo, but it was pretty close.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh thank goodness, uh, thank goodness I didn't have to go to the hospital because even with the vaccines on board, they would have given me the many, many, many um injectable treatments just to make sure because you get rabies, you die from rabies.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's no, you know, there's no ifs, ands, or buts.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think only one person uh in modern history has ever survived from rabies, and she did she didn't do very well.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's uh it's a horrible disease.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Is that still the syringes in the gut thing for rabies?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't yeah, I don't think anymore.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think now it's uh yeah, they used to do it in the peritoneal cavity, like the sac, the the the abdomen, yeah, essentially.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was like 20 of them.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um now it's all in the arm, but they hurt, they cause like uh almost like a mini rabies, a neurological freezing or paralysis of the arm.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um they hurt, they hurt, they hurt.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but it's better than the alternative.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: Is rabies still prominent?
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like let's say in Ontario and Canada, is it uh yeah, like in here in Markham, they just diagnosed a bat with uh in York region with rabies.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um almost every single year they see it in bats here in Ontario.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um they occasionally, a couple of years ago in Hamilton, they had to euthanize three dogs that got in a Royal Rumble with a family of raccoons, and none of the dogs were vaccinated uh or they're well overdue, and the raccoons ended up being positive with rabies.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: They come from the U.S.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like this sounds like a political joke, but um, they eventually have traveled from the U.S.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: terra-free, and uh um so rabies is an issue.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: But uh around the world, 50,000 people die from rabies every year.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh now, most of them are in India, which is where I was, most of them are children, so it's uh it's a big problem uh outside of North America.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah, that's insane.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: I have to make an observation here at this point.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't last uh time we had you on the show, but you are the most undoctor doctor that I now know.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a compliment.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, about Shim.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Shim's pretty undoctory, he's not bad, but he's still a little bit anal.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's still a little bit like like Cliff is just like one of the guys, one of the boys, I thought this was a veterinarian joke that we're not really doctors.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that's what it was.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: No, I got on here.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: We know we know lots of uh people, medical practitioners, and and uh every one of them fits a mold, and you don't fit that mold.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and why I I find that extraordinary.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: I have a very good friend, uh her name is Marie, Dr.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: Marie Hollowaychuk in Western Canada, and she's a vet.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um and she's also uh um I think she has a podcast and she certainly does seminars and all that, but her big push is now um, not now, it's been that way for years.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh she sees that there is a place in your profession for um psychologists to work with some of your folks, your folks being the veterinary trade.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because she tells me that the it veterinary trade has the highest uh number of doctors, unlike um regular doctors and surgeons, of that that that require uh um some kind of help mentally.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes on, she goes on to explain because I said, Well, I don't understand that because you guys are working on animals, so like the animal can't yell and scream and bitch and complain about you know you're cutting out it or poking its eye or whatever.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas, you know, doctors that work on human beings, they've got to go through a lot more trauma.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, No, it's the opposite because we can't communicate with the animal.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I just wanted your your sort of uh look at that.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a there there's definitely been for 30 plus years, I graduated 28 years ago, a mental health crisis in our industry all across North America.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I believe other than uh like military and police, we have the highest suicide rate for any sort of industry, um, any professional type industry.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's so many different reasons, but a lot of it is we're such a passionate group.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: We care so much about what we're doing.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes this is not a victim mentality, but we we don't people say some pretty nasty things about us, like like pet owners.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: And people actually are more passionate about their pets than they are about themselves.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you compared it that hey, our patients can't give us a hard time.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, but their families can.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's massive debt issues and whatnot.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: I believe, and I love my job.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I've 28 years as a veterinarian, owned my practice for 26 and a half years.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love being a vet, I love owning my practice, I love working with my staff.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: All of these things are unfortunately unusual.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a big thing, though, I think, are these travels that I do.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it it rejuvenates me.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I love being here in Markham, but I go on a trip.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a trip coming up in uh in Jamaica, which will be our fourth now.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jamaica's sort of becoming a common volunteer place for us.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a little bit of a step away.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: It it shows me how blessed I am to be working with my team, to be working in this nice clinic in Markham.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I get to do these cool adventures.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: We work really hard, but we party pretty hard afterwards as well.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think these travel trips, for me at least, I know that they are my my armor against burnout.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh, but I also talk to a therapist sometimes, and that yeah, that is not done enough.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's that's something that has really, really helped me.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, she is she is 100% correct that this is uh this is we're like too silent about about the stresses in our profession.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what she says too.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's why she went on to to do podcasting and and uh basically shine light on the fact that this is this is uh an area that we should be all as as consumers, right?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: You just mentioned something about pet owners being pretty nasty when you're when you're working with uh I mean w we should be a little more aware of that.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: And uh hopefully, you know, this kind of thing.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: Those people probably aren't gonna change though.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: People that are like that.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's it's it's very difficult to to change someone's mind, especially when You know, understandably, they're very upset and passionate about whatever the situation is.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: What I try and do, I talk to a lot of students.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like one one small thing is I tell veterinarians, and this is against what sort of practice managers recommend to build your practice.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: I tell them never read or respond to Google reviews.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do not even Amen.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now that also means good.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh apparently I have a good Google rating.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the exact number.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't look at the good ones, I don't look at the bad ones.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't care.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: I do my best.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: I occasionally make mistakes, but I do my best.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if they want to rant and rave because I'm too expensive or you know, things didn't work out and their dog didn't wear an e-collar.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm going off to a war zone soon.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh, so that's a that's a big, big thing is uh for all of us, is just just do your best and enjoy uh enjoy the position you are in life.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh if someone really, really hates you and wants to put it on social media, uh that's their problem.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: Cliff, do you uh another thing, maybe in a psychological term or whatever, do you ever get attached to certain animals?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you had one since uh a pup and he's now 12 years old and you see him all the time.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: You ever got a certain attachment to these animals, or you're trying to stay away from it, or is that something?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, I get I get super attached and I I cry very easily.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I, you know, I've owned my practice so long that not only have I seen multiple pets go through a family, um, but I've now seen I now have pet owners, clients, who I remember when they were born.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh clients, right?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: And now they're bringing me their, like they have their children and their pets.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um there are some veterinarians that feel you need to step away um and you know, make sure you don't cry during a euthanasia.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I try not to, but I don't I can't stop it.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, you know, just like suck it down and and have those negative feelings.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: I express them and I and I hug the people and I make sure it's about them and it's about their pet when something goes wrong.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, I think you know, the term is compassion fatigue, and I think the the the way to avoid compassion fatigue is to have more compassion.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's to be more compassionate.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's like uh being a marathon runner.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a triathlete.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Being a marathon runner, run more if you want to be able to run farther.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same sort of thing.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, you have a great attitude, and I think that's that's the difference right there.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know many uh vets, uh, but I do know two now.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: And both of you have got uh tremendous attitude, tremendous attitude towards life, and that's and it shows just oozes, and I think that's uh fantastic.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe not enough vets have that sort of attitude.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they get a little too serious about their practice, they get a little too serious about their profession, whatever the case is, but they need to lighten up a little bit, maybe.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what I see in you, right?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think a big thing is uh, you know, you talk about me not fitting a mold.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah um this morning at six o'clock in the morning, I was doing one-on-one boxing, sparring with my coach, who's like 240 pounds, and we're punching each other in the head.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: He's punching me a lot more than I'm punching him.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like the you gotta have these things.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a very healthy, other than for my brain, I think it's a very healthy uh way of getting over that stress.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like this amazing therapy.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have these things outside of work where you can't think of work.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I promise you, I am not thinking about work when I'm uh when I'm when I'm boxing with uh Coach Brock.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: So at six in the morning.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, good for the invitation, man.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, do you know something about that?
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: I I uh yeah, we all grew up thinking the same thing, and and uh and throughout most of our career, we kind of were along those lines too.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_02: But because of the game that we're in, our profession doesn't allow us to be out there in prime conditions.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: So for the last 40 years, we have been fishing in less than optimal conditions, and doing okay, by the way.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but yeah, but yeah, I guess you know, low light conditions or early morning, late evening are would be the best time of day to put yourself in front of the uh fish.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: But um uh it's the best, it's it's the bet it's more the best time mentally for you out there in that morning and it's just ah, there's no jet skiers out here.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, I don't know.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: I can't hear a thing except for the loons over there, and the geese over here, and and I uh I'm gonna hear my lure hit the water.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_03: So it's more of that because I'll give you a quick example.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was fishing last week uh for walleye, and it was every bit as good throughout the whole day.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: Midday was as good a fishing as it was in the morning, if not better.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_03: So that just shows you there's a kind of uh you know I just thought I'd stop, not to interrupt.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: Dean, can we do from now on uh whenever the the term walleye or pickerel, because I do have my walleye pickerel shirt on, um is uh is is made, I want to hear something.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: I want to hear a ding, a bell, a buzzer, something.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like a counter.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like a like a counter, thank you.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, something fine.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: So so explain to me this shirt.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: When is a walleye a pickerel?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: When it's a pike, I don't get it.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, perfect.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: So in this part of the world, um, I would say uh at least 50%, if not more, of anglers in the province of Ontario refer to a walleye as a pickerel.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very much a Canadian and Ontario thing.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'll even go that far.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's not so much a Canadian thing, it's an Ontario thing.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: How it started, we don't know.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: We we will at some point find out.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: We'll do our uh our research.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: But pickerel is a pike, okay, right?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: But for some reason, uh Ontario folks, anglers have called walleye.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: Walleye is its true name.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: That is the name of that fish that we love to eat.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a walleye.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what are the physical characteristics?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you show me two fish and one is a walleye and the other is a pickerel pike, uh a pickled pike, the other one's a pike.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what what what am I gonna see?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: What's the difference?
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, a hundred percent.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a lab and a poodle.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there you go.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's a lab and a poodle.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good way of putting that, right there.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: Pike is the lab, and the walleye or pickerel is the poodle.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: They don't have any similarities whatsoever other than they drink water, right?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: Other than that, they they have no connection, but somehow, somewhere along the line, we've got to find out where it all stands.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: It would be nice.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's in northern Ontario thing more than anything, too.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like it seems to be way up north.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: They always call them pickerel.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we cringe everywhere we go, because we're in for the part most part in in rural parts of the country, and and they talk about pickerel, and we just cringe and we try and straighten them out.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them we succeed, and we even some of them we don't.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: Some of them even know what we're talking about, but they refuse to call it a walleye.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_03: They hate that.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_03: They call it an American word.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's an American, that's what the Americans call it.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at the uh Ontario fishing regulations, I was used as an example.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: There is the there's hardly any mention of a pickerel in there unless it's some of the pickerel fish, but it's always walleye, walleye, walleye.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's the common name, right?
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_03: They have a scientific name too, but yeah, so it's always uh it's always been walleye, and uh people just I don't know how like like Ann says, we have to look into it, I guess.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: Americans are uh slipping into our culture, they need to stay uh but but it wasn't the Americans, the Americans call it a walleye.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: They call it right, they're saying the right okay, yeah.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's usually it's us, and in fact, the Americans a lot of times when we're south of the border, uh they're always bugging us about pickerel, the word pickerel.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: You guys you guys call a walleye pickerel.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_02: What's that all about?
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because it's just here, just uh here in Ontario.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, anyway, so we thought it would be appropriate if we made a shirt and maybe straighten everybody out, you know what I mean?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it now.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know I feel uh you know, knowledge every day.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm learning something.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: There you go, buddy.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's what happened today.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: Two things before we let you go.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, um we've talked about this book now.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: Where can people get it now that it's out?
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's called Far and Wild Adventures of the Worldwide Vet.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a real book, like it was by a real publisher.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's on print, e-format, and audio.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: And basically, like any bookstore, airports, Amazon, indigo.com, like anywhere you get books, it's gonna be there.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be available.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Canada gets it first.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: It just launched in Canada.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: In a couple of weeks, it hits uh it hits the Americas.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't hit them with a tariff, so I made them wait a couple of weeks.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then eventually it's gonna make its way uh down under down to Australia.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_02: How long did it take you to write that?
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh too long.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I I didn't plan to write it.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was journaling on all these trips, and these trips, I was trying to create a TV show.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was filming my adventures to pitch a TV show.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: I got green lit once uh verbally, and then it and then you know the new executive comes in and trashes all the old executives' ideas.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that happened.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: But because I was journaling and I had all these interesting stories, or at least I thought they're interesting, um, I just decided to start typing it out.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: And over a five-year period, uh I typed it out.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was 330 pages.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: I finally found a publisher.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was a hard, hard sort of uh trip to do.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of a lot of no's, right?
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of doors closed in your face, kind of thing.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh and then eventually I found ECW Press, uh, a good Canadian publisher.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh they just said, great, now rewrite the whole thing and make it shorter.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: So so you have to pitch to a publisher?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you you know, if you had a if you're a big name, you know, uh uh it's not a problem, right?
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm sure when Bruce Springsteen does his uh autobiography or memoir, he's not pitching to anybody.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're all pitching to him.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Please take this million dollars.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I basically normally what happens is you have uh a like a summary, like a chapter list and maybe a paragraph or two of each chapter, and then you'd have a couple of sample chapters.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, by this time, because I had already gone through all the big five, random house, uh penguin, all those guys, and they all said no, I had my book done.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I reached out to ECW through a friend of a friend, that's how you get your foot in the door, and um they said, Great, how much have you written?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Send us a couple of chapters, and I said, Well, I've written the whole thing.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they don't send us the whole thing.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they basically I had to write like a pitch deck, like it was this is what it's about, and this is why I think it can sell.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: And here's my media, here's my media connections.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, I'm gonna be in the uh fish in Canada podcast.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's gonna that's gonna help market it.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they said, all right, we're gonna we're gonna give it a try.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: And here's a couple thousand dollars in advance, um, literally, uh, which is great.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's fine.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then and then they helped me, they did an amazing job.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh my my editor, she worked so hard in in helping me make it shorter, uh, moving that bomb scene to the beginning.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was my idea, sort of the James Bond start to catch people's attention.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I got to put in photos, which instead of in the center, there's photos in amongst the the chapters, which to me is a lot more uh a lot more reader-friendly.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, I'm really, really excited for people to finally get to get to do this.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it the first trip that this talks about was 10 years ago, so 10 and a half years ago.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh it's been a long time.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: Why do they want it shorter?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's a book, you can just add more pages into it.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like, isn't it doesn't work better?
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and in in her defense, she said, Look, we we've signed you.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you really want to keep it this way, 320 pages, 330 pages, we'll keep it.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to change a single word other than like punctuation, let's say we're gonna help you with.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: But she says, People are gonna be a little bit uh overwhelmed.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's gonna be some people who aren't gonna read it, and there was a lot of the story uh in amongst the animal rescues about me trying to make this TV show, and while that's interesting, that's not why most people want to read it.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a little bit of that in there, but I took out I basically trimmed it up, I made it nice and and lean and punchy, uh, kind of like my boxing.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh at least punchy, not lean.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, so they they just know it's more sellable for the average reader.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: So see, I would have thought the opposite.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: I would have thought that more juice in there.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, never mind juice because uh because they have to buy it before they know what's in it, right?
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right, but just sitting on the shelf, I would have thought 300 pages sure looks more attractive at 59, nine or 29, whatever the price is, yeah, than a hundred and twenty-page version of it, right?
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_02: To me, uh it only went down to 270.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: So you wouldn't even notice it.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's still 270, 275 pages.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh costs 27 bucks.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I was gonna say a buck a hundred pages.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's cheap.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, that's not bad.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh a buck for 10 pages.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I I mean, I don't know.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe the real goal, pardon me, is after this makes it big and Ryan Reynolds plays me in the movie and et cetera, et cetera, then we can come out with the original 330 page as a director's cut.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's the goal.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: I never even thought Ryan might even buy a copy.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: You never know, right?
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: You never know.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think I would give him one if uh if he would agree.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of speaking of uh mooching free copies, uh like you don't have you know, I don't want to sing anything.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, man.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: Where where are you guys filming this out of?
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is an Oshawa.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: This studio's an Oshawa.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm down the street.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna deliver one in person.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Deliver two.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'll deliver two.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: So and the final question was uh you're you're you're doing a YouTube, you have a YouTube channel.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: How often are you producing um yeah, uh I'll be honest, I haven't put anything up on there in in in like three or four years.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ouch.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's much more my my Instagram is much more um, like all of my videos, all my photos, all my stories um from the trips.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: So this book ends in Ukraine like four years ago.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: And since then, I've been to a Calowit Nunavut, like the Arctic Circle, twice in January.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've been to Jamaica a couple of times.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm missing, I'm forgetting one other.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I went back to India and did a documentary uh that got into film festivals.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot going on on my on my Instagram.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I am gonna the the the publishing company is saying start start pushing the YouTube channel again.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would I would highly recommend that.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: You are is that dr cliff worldwide vet on Instagram?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, uh yeah, dr at dr cliff worldwide vet.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: And as far as like YouTube and anything like that, if you just go to my website, which is drcliff.ca, drcliff.ca, uh you'll find everything.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh this has been a delight again.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh always especially now that I know I've got a free book coming.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that makes it all worthwhile.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, to be honest with you.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I get that.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's it's well worth it, but you got to read the whole 270 pages.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll have somebody read it for me.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: How's that?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank God they shortened it, Ang.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: You get the audiobook.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the audiobook's good.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: The audio book is great.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: That'd be all right.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_03: Going for fishing trips, we could listen to it.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you can read that's it on our on our on our next adventure.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_02: You can you can read it to me while I fall asleep in bed.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do it.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: He'll read it to us on the radio.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: I had to fight with the publisher to get me to narrate my own book.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: That was one thing.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is when I when I when we were going over the negotiation with a contract, it was like there was a section saying I could help choose the narrator.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: I listen to Joe Rogan.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: No one narrate, no, only you get to only I get to narrate.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Well, you know, your first time, and although you have this podcast and you go on TV, you got a good voice.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: We generally don't.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: How about we let you audition for it?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I am dying on this mountain.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I will throw this contract in the garbage, which was not true because they were the last girl I asked to dance, so to speak.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: But they didn't call my bluff and they finally said, sure, you can narrate it.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_00: But uh the the the sound producer that uh that helped me with everything, uh, he ended up talking to them and saying, You guys did the right thing, letting him narrate.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's uh he's he's pretty good in front of a microphone.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: Okay and a great voice to boot.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: Good for you.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's called Far and Wild Adventures of the Worldwide Vet.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you get an opportunity to pick one up, we would highly recommend it.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: Although I'm being honest for you, I haven't read it yet, but I will.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_02: I will.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_02: I got a feeling it's gonna be good.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_02: Just based on this character, I would say it's gonna be a bestseller for sure.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I appreciate it.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: Cliff, thank you so much.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we are already anticipating another return by you on the show.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we'd like to have you on more often for sure, and uh document all your adventures and share them with our audience uh at the same time.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do this regular.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: All right, buddy.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: Take care.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, Dr.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_02: Cliff Clifford.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_02: Clifford Grifford.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: Clifford Clifford.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: I love that name.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it suits the guy, too.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how how appropriate is that?
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, indeed.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, on behalf of the uh entire team, uh Peter Bowman over here, uh, Nick Eve over there, uh Dean Taylor over there, I'm Angelo Wild.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_02: Catch you next time.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: This episode of Outdoor Journal Radio has been brought to you in part by the Invasive Species Center, protecting Canada's land and water from invasive species.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_02: Freedom Cruise Canada, rent the boat, own the memories, and JMB cycle a marine, your home for all things power sports, boats, and equipment.