Latest / No Dirt No Flowers Podcast / Why Partnerships Are Important / Ft: Blake Crosby

Transcript

Why Partnerships Are Important / Ft: Blake Crosby · No Dirt No Flowers Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome back to episode 3 of No Dirt,
• 0:03
  No Flowers. Today we welcome our very first guest
• 0:06
  on the podcast, Blake Crosby of Crosby Hops out
• 0:09
  of Woodburn, Oregon. Mike and Drew will be discussing
• 0:12
  with Blake the history of Crosby Hops and Blake's
• 0:14
  perspective on where we are at as an industry.
• 0:16
  And they will also be talking about the big news
• 0:19
  announced yesterday about the exciting new partnership
• 0:21
  between Roy Farms and Crosby Hops. Enjoy the
• 0:24
  show. Yeah, it sounds good in the headphones.
• 0:35
  Yeah. It's nice. I was thinking that while we
• 0:39
  were talking earlier about stuff, like that would
• 0:41
  be a good. I had the late night DJ. Welcome to
• 0:48
  93 .4. Okay. All right. We're recording now.
• 0:55
  Yeah, yeah. Nice. All of that was recording,
• 0:57
  right? Yep. That was? Yeah. It's probably better
• 1:00
  I didn't know. Yeah. Oh, and he loves to just
• 1:03
  use whatever he'll use if you ever noticed. Yeah.
• 1:05
  Episode three of No Dirt, No Flowers. Yeah, who
• 1:09
  are we here with? You're literally sitting right
• 1:11
  next to him. That was supposed to be an introduction.
• 1:19
  Today we have Blake Crosby on from Crosby Hops
• 1:22
  in Woodburn, Oregon. Heck yeah. Great to be here.
• 1:26
  Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah. First guest.
• 1:29
  First guest. This is true. Very exciting. Very
• 1:32
  exciting. First of many to come. No pressure.
• 1:36
  No pressure. So today we're going to talk about
• 1:39
  a little bit with the history of Crosby Hops,
• 1:42
  who Blake is and where they've come from, where
• 1:45
  they're going, kind of follow up on where the
• 1:49
  industry's at today through Blake's perspective,
• 1:52
  and then talk about some cool stuff we have coming
• 1:55
  up in the future. Yeah, because we're kind of
• 1:58
  shifting gears a little bit, but it's relevant
• 2:02
  to what's happening. Originally, we were going
• 2:05
  to do How We Got Here Part 2, and then we also
• 2:09
  kind of had teed up in the content calendar.
• 2:12
  Why relationships matter. Why relationships matter.
• 2:15
  So it's all relevant. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And the
• 2:20
  timeliness of Mr. Crosby being on here. Mr. Crosby.
• 2:25
  That lines up perfectly with some announcements
• 2:28
  we have coming up, which we're going to save
• 2:30
  for the end of the show. Yep. Blake, introduce
• 2:33
  yourself. Talk about your family farm, will you?
• 2:36
  Yeah, well, thanks for having me. And very excited
• 2:40
  to be here. I really admire what you guys have
• 2:42
  been doing. And the podcast has been really fun
• 2:45
  to listen to the first two episodes. And I know
• 2:47
  it's only going to continue to evolve and be
• 2:50
  a great resource for the hop industry and for
• 2:52
  brewers. Who knows? Maybe even beyond someday.
• 2:55
  From Crosby perspective, we grow hops in Oregon.
• 2:59
  We've been doing that for a long time. Started,
• 3:02
  I think we planted hops around 1900. That's what
• 3:04
  we claim anyway. Sometimes it's hard to get the
• 3:06
  exact year right. Oh, it is. You're going back
• 3:10
  looking at old records and grandpa said this
• 3:13
  and great grandpa maybe said that. But from what
• 3:15
  we could tell, we planted hops in Woodburn in
• 3:19
  1900, even though we landed in the Willamette
• 3:22
  Valley. in like the mid 1800s i think we did
• 3:25
  a lot of other non -hop things before that probably
• 3:29
  cattle and grain crops and i don't know gardening
• 3:33
  gardening that was classified as farming so we
• 3:37
  can get as many years into our history as possible
• 3:39
  pretty much yeah but yeah so planted hops around
• 3:43
  1900 and have been been doing that ever since
• 3:47
  maybe during prohibition there might have been
• 3:49
  a year or two where they didn't do much I know
• 3:52
  that question tends to come up, and I'm sure
• 3:54
  you guys get that question too, even though there
• 3:56
  was still demand overseas, of course. But besides
• 3:59
  that, I've been growing hops every year, and
• 4:02
  this is our 125th harvest, crop 25. That's the
• 4:06
  nice thing about 1900. It makes the math really
• 4:08
  easy. It does. Yeah. Yeah, I know you guys are
• 4:11
  1907. That's what it says on the website. We'll
• 4:18
  go with that. Yeah. So multi -generational. I'm
• 4:21
  the fifth generation. My sister Jackie is also
• 4:24
  involved in the business and is a day -to -day
• 4:26
  operator as well and has been back in the business
• 4:30
  now for a few years. And, yeah, so a real common
• 4:33
  story there. What year did you come back? I don't
• 4:38
  know if I ever left. I went to college. He went
• 4:40
  to college. He came straight back after college?
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  I was back every summer like a very loyal, dutiful
• 4:46
  son. We went through that big boom in 07, 08.
• 4:52
  And I actually took a semester off because our
• 4:55
  farm had gotten so kind of bare bones leading
• 4:58
  up to that period because the market had been
• 5:00
  tough for most of my life, it seemed like. And
• 5:04
  then 07, things got really interesting and we
• 5:06
  had a nice run there. And my dad asked me to
• 5:08
  come home to help him put hop yards up. Oh, wow.
• 5:11
  No one knew how to do because we hadn't put a
• 5:14
  hop yard up in like 30 years, it felt like. It
• 5:17
  was funny. it was a lot of work it was a lot
• 5:19
  of work learned a lot and just kind of kept coming
• 5:22
  back every summer but that actual year i took
• 5:25
  a semester off just to help with the ramp up
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  and it's funny i don't know if my dad would be
• 5:30
  proud of this me sharing this but i remember
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  we were driving around in the pickup one day
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  during that period and He was kind of like, do
• 5:37
  you think you need to go back to college? I'm
• 5:40
  like, what do you mean? I'm like, I'm like a
• 5:41
  semester away from graduating, you know? Well,
• 5:44
  you know, like we could really use your help
• 5:45
  around here. You know, like Bill Gates, he dropped
• 5:48
  out of college and, you know, received jobs.
• 5:50
  I think pretty sure he dropped out of college.
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  You could just like not go back and we could
• 5:53
  just farm together. I just thought it was hilarious.
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  I'm like, dude, I'm like, I was literally like
• 5:58
  one or two semesters away from graduating. Dude,
• 6:01
  he had a taste of farming with his son. I guess
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  so. And it was such, I think all that said is
• 6:08
  it highlighted the excitement of having a marketplace
• 6:11
  that you could actually be excited about again.
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  Because it had been so many years of just challenge,
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  and then now I was back. I took a semester off.
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  There was actually an opportunity to grow the
• 6:22
  farm. So I think it was just out of a place of
• 6:24
  exuberance where he's like, he didn't want me
• 6:25
  to go back to college. I did go back and finish,
• 6:29
  so it all worked out. Yeah, it's funny. When
• 6:31
  I came back, we were. In the middle of or at
• 6:35
  the tail end, I can't remember, of a bad market
• 6:38
  run. And I remember, you know, we were doing
• 6:42
  everything to save costs. We had, like, three
• 6:45
  years of hot vines piled up, and we'd just have
• 6:47
  a big dozer come in and, like, push, just keep
• 6:50
  pushing it further away from the machine. That
• 6:52
  really sticks out in my mind still to this day
• 6:55
  is, like, what we were doing. Like, we just weren't
• 6:58
  even spreading hot vines, anything that we could
• 7:00
  defer cost. Yep. That was the era. And I came
• 7:04
  back probably with a lot of naivety. Naivety?
• 7:09
  Yes. That word. Not even even knowing what it
• 7:12
  could be, just wanting to be back. Totally. So
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  all that to be said is I never felt like I left
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  the farm, even though I did go to college and
• 7:21
  I moved away from home. I stayed in state. I
• 7:24
  actually, people still give me a hard time about
• 7:27
  this. I actually went to University of Oregon.
• 7:29
  So I was sort of on the dark side. If you're
• 7:31
  from an ag community, that's the dark side. The
• 7:34
  Ducks, although they have a great football program.
• 7:38
  Went there because I just wanted some different
• 7:40
  scenery. It was a little further away from home
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  and had friends down there, some good friends.
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  So I ended up going to U of O and graduated from
• 7:46
  U of O with a history degree. But that whole
• 7:49
  period, I was coming home during the summer and
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  I would always work on the farm. And so I stayed
• 7:52
  very connected to the farm. And then once I graduated,
• 7:56
  I... Went back to the farm and that was 2008
• 7:58
  and the Great Recession. And I wanted initially
• 8:02
  to go do something else just for experience,
• 8:05
  if nothing else. There was really very challenging
• 8:08
  to find a job in that 08 timeframe. If you guys
• 8:12
  might remember, it was awful. And so I ended
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  up working back on the farm, just hourly wages,
• 8:20
  real meager, kind of depressing at the time.
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  having gone to college and, you know, college
• 8:26
  is very energizing and everyone's imagining their
• 8:29
  futures and dreaming big dreams and talking about
• 8:32
  how they're going to go do all these things and
• 8:34
  you're young and you're excited and then you
• 8:37
  graduate and it's like all this hoopla and then
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  you come home and it's 2008, the Great Recession,
• 8:43
  there's like no jobs and... you're back in your
• 8:46
  parents' basement in Woodburn doing the same
• 8:51
  things. I used to joke, I remember in that era,
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  I would tell my friends, I'm like, and my family,
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  I'm like, I'm doing the same things I did when
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  I was like 16 on the farm, virtually making the
• 8:59
  same amount of money. Maybe dad was right. Maybe
• 9:03
  dad was right. But that actually ended up being
• 9:09
  a springboard though, that realization to what
• 9:12
  ultimately became. my entrepreneurial bug and
• 9:16
  wanting to build something beyond that, because
• 9:19
  I knew that wasn't going to be sustainable for
• 9:21
  me personally or professionally for that matter.
• 9:24
  Yeah. And so talk a little bit about that. We
• 9:27
  were, uh, we were talking last week, uh, and
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  you're sharing that story of kind of how the
• 9:35
  sales efforts started, um, with Crosby hops.
• 9:40
  Yeah, so got back home from college, 2008 time
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  frame. The hop market had gone through a big
• 9:47
  boom due to shortages that were probably the
• 9:53
  outcome of many, many years of hard times before
• 9:56
  that, as we all know. Finally, I was on an uptick,
• 9:59
  though, and I happened to be graduating. And
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  that was always kind of an interesting juxtaposition
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  because here we were in probably one of the worst...
• 10:06
  overall economies in modern history of 2008 meltdown
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  but then the hop industry was having its own
• 10:13
  little heyday uh like the irony of hops i guess
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  is it's like when everything else was doing good
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  it was bad and in this one moment when the whole
• 10:21
  world was melting down hops are actually good
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  for a couple years and my dad to his credit and
• 10:28
  his wisdom having learned the hard way signed
• 10:31
  some nice contracts for that period you know
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  if like five -year contracts that extended through
• 10:37
  because as we know that market crashed pretty
• 10:39
  quick the spot market because of the heavy planting
• 10:41
  that happened during 08 and we ended up in a
• 10:45
  nice position though with contracts so my dad
• 10:48
  signed those deals we had some stability on the
• 10:50
  farm for a number of years because of that and
• 10:52
  simultaneously i'm back but it was also kind
• 10:56
  of boring because we just were growing these
• 10:58
  contracts for a dealer they were nice contracts
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  but that was about all we did And we had a small
• 11:04
  farm. At the time, we were only about 200 acres.
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  And we were finally making a little bit of income,
• 11:09
  which was nice. But now I'm back, so that adds
• 11:12
  extra pressure. And not that I had huge earning
• 11:15
  expectations, but I wanted to at least be going
• 11:17
  in the right direction and feel like I was growing.
• 11:20
  I always wanted to grow and not just continue
• 11:24
  to do the same things. So naturally, that led
• 11:28
  to how can I grow? not just my potential income
• 11:31
  personally but also my skill set and i always
• 11:34
  had a deep passion for the farm and i loved hops
• 11:37
  and the hop business from day one it just unfortunately
• 11:40
  for many years it never looked like a viable
• 11:42
  career path and i know you guys know that whole
• 11:45
  story as well like the rest of the industry and
• 11:49
  then i got super interested in craft and as a
• 11:52
  consumer that period was starting to ramp up
• 11:55
  and i was a young person in my 20s so i was drinking
• 11:58
  craft beer and then Our farm is pretty close
• 12:00
  to Portland, Oregon, so about 45 minutes away.
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  And so naturally I started poking around town
• 12:05
  and talking to brewers, and it became really
• 12:08
  evident that there was a need for hops for some
• 12:11
  of the small customers. And even though the large
• 12:15
  -scale market at that point had kind of dried
• 12:18
  up, you know, so to speak, there was this burgeoning
• 12:21
  demand that I was finding just on the ground,
• 12:23
  kind of going grassroots. I was finding lots
• 12:26
  of brewers that were... very curious about how
• 12:29
  they could buy hops from us. And so that started
• 12:32
  a whole thought process and curiosity and desire
• 12:35
  to do some direct business, not knowing anything
• 12:38
  about it. I'm embarrassed to say this, but probably
• 12:41
  up until about 2009, I didn't even know that
• 12:43
  hops went into pellets. I had no idea. Like,
• 12:46
  we just dropped bales off at the warehouse at
• 12:48
  the dealer, hop dealer, and never thought about
• 12:51
  it after that. That's kind of a crazy thought.
• 12:53
  It is a crazy thought. I mean, just from my perspective,
• 12:56
  because... I view Crosby as an industry leader.
• 13:01
  So to kind of make that statement is a bit surprising.
• 13:06
  I think, and I was telling Christine on the drive
• 13:09
  up here, our VP of marketing and sales, some
• 13:12
  of that story too, because Christine, as she's
• 13:15
  joined our company, has seen the brand leadership
• 13:17
  Crosby now represents, and I was filling her
• 13:19
  in a little bit on the old days, and it wasn't
• 13:22
  always this way. We were just a real small farm.
• 13:26
  Pretty simple business model, selling everything
• 13:28
  to a dealer, very low margin. Most years didn't
• 13:31
  make money. Didn't go on a whole lot of family
• 13:33
  vacations. And that's not, you know, woe is me
• 13:36
  story, but I think it's interesting to anchor
• 13:38
  the story in that reality because that was reality
• 13:40
  for a lot of our families, right? Yeah. Yeah,
• 13:43
  and then in 2009, I didn't even know what hot
• 13:44
  pellets were and quickly figured out that we
• 13:47
  needed to be able to have pellets to get into
• 13:50
  this market. And so naturally that started the
• 13:53
  Pellet Mill Project. What year did you put in
• 13:56
  the pellet mill? 2012. Okay. Yeah, so it was
• 14:00
  funny because it started out like many of these
• 14:02
  stories where I came up with the idea, talked
• 14:05
  to my dad. Of course, it seemed like it was going
• 14:07
  to be too expensive. So then I kind of put together
• 14:10
  the skeleton budget of, oh, but I bet we could
• 14:13
  do it cheaper, of course, and we could do it
• 14:15
  for this, which was way too cheap and not accurate,
• 14:18
  but it kind of got him on the hook mentally a
• 14:20
  little. Oh, okay, could we? He's like, yeah,
• 14:22
  I think we could. And so he got spooled up on
• 14:25
  it. And, of course, by the time we got done with
• 14:28
  the project, it was more expensive. But it kind
• 14:31
  of helped mentally get him on board. When I presented
• 14:34
  a few options, we don't have to build the biggest
• 14:37
  pellet mill in the world to be able to be successful.
• 14:40
  And we ended up building something bigger than
• 14:42
  we originally intended, which tends to happen,
• 14:43
  as we all know. And it still serves us to this
• 14:47
  day, actually. But, you know, we've updated it
• 14:50
  here and there. That was sort of what I call
• 14:55
  the burn the boats moment because I don't know
• 14:57
  that we consciously even knew that in the moment.
• 14:59
  And if we did, we probably would have been too
• 15:01
  freaked out. But it just felt right. And the
• 15:04
  market was on our side in hindsight. It was great
• 15:07
  timing. And we just went for it. And my dad also
• 15:12
  had those contracts, like I mentioned a moment
• 15:14
  ago, that were underpinning us. So we had a little
• 15:16
  security. So the timing kind of worked out well
• 15:18
  because we still had these contracts with our
• 15:21
  legacy relationships. that we were delivering
• 15:23
  at a fair price that allowed us some actual profitability.
• 15:28
  And then we were able to use that profitability
• 15:30
  to then fund this new craft experiment and pellet
• 15:34
  mill in Oregon. Experiment. Experiment. Yeah.
• 15:40
  That's quite the R &D project there. Yeah. Had
• 15:44
  no idea, obviously, where it was going to take
• 15:46
  us. Honestly, really didn't. I mean. That's another
• 15:49
  thing. When Christine and I were driving up,
• 15:50
  we were talking about that. I was like, I could
• 15:51
  have never imagined that I'd be in the position
• 15:53
  I'm in today. So what do you think was the backbone
• 15:58
  of the success that you've had? Because while
• 16:00
  we're all having challenges right now, I do view
• 16:03
  you as successful. So you've mentioned that there
• 16:06
  is a curiosity. You've mentioned that you had
• 16:08
  this entrepreneurial spirit coming out of college
• 16:11
  and probably inherently. But where did you think
• 16:16
  you found success? Like in the market? Was it
• 16:19
  a hole that needed to be filled? What was it?
• 16:23
  Yeah, I think in those days, it was probably
• 16:27
  a lot of the things you mentioned. I didn't know
• 16:30
  I had those things in me. And I guess when you're
• 16:33
  in your early 20s, you don't know yourself that
• 16:34
  well. I had no idea. So I think I had these skill
• 16:37
  sets that I didn't know existed in me. And I
• 16:40
  think we can all relate to that. When you find
• 16:42
  something that you're good at and you realize,
• 16:45
  oh, this kind of feels easy. That's energizing.
• 16:48
  And I think I felt that way pretty early on to
• 16:52
  the point where I probably had to be careful.
• 16:53
  I didn't get, you know, my parents probably would
• 16:55
  have said like, Hey, keep your ego in check,
• 16:58
  man. Like, you know, you're still, you're still
• 17:00
  only a 23 years old and you're not God's gift
• 17:04
  to hops. You know, not that I really thought
• 17:08
  that, but I think I, you know, it's easy to get
• 17:10
  overconfident when you're young. But I think
• 17:11
  I realized, like, oh, I'm pretty good at this.
• 17:13
  This feels easy. And then I probably got a little
• 17:14
  overconfident, and then they would keep me in
• 17:16
  line to their credit. I think zooming out, though,
• 17:19
  yeah, the market timing worked out well. I think
• 17:22
  there was underserved demographic in craft brewers,
• 17:26
  the smaller craft brewers, where we naturally
• 17:29
  fit well in the early days. And I think that
• 17:32
  DNA continues to exist in our organization. work
• 17:36
  with large customers as well, but we have a real
• 17:38
  strong commitment to what I've called a small
• 17:40
  brewer. Let's say that's your, you know, under
• 17:43
  whatever, 2 ,000, 1 ,500 barrel brewer. We've
• 17:46
  just always kind of had that in our DNA because
• 17:48
  that's where I personally started and where I
• 17:50
  made my first sales. And I think that's what,
• 17:53
  you know, some have called a long tail. That
• 17:55
  group of customers has done pretty well through
• 17:58
  the ups and downs with their business models
• 18:00
  and more of a retail business model, perhaps
• 18:04
  higher margin in some cases. for those brewers
• 18:06
  and so i think in some cases they've fared a
• 18:09
  little better through this downturn and because
• 18:11
  our business just by this mere fact that it's
• 18:15
  where i started and it's been part of our dna
• 18:16
  we've really kind of continued to invest in that
• 18:18
  long tail of customers so i think that's like
• 18:22
  the x's and o's side i think the non -tangibles
• 18:24
  or i continue to realize this as i get older
• 18:26
  is just people and yeah i had an idea and i get
• 18:31
  really excited about this stuff and i i love
• 18:33
  it and probably obsessed with it at times but
• 18:37
  just surrounding myself with people that are
• 18:40
  really talented really smart and allowing them
• 18:44
  to do what they do best and being okay not being
• 18:48
  the smartest person in the room that's always
• 18:50
  been pretty easy for me and I'm grateful for
• 18:53
  that because I know that's not always easy but
• 18:55
  I enjoy learning from others and I think that's
• 18:59
  helped me on this journey and probably helped
• 19:01
  our growth because i have a lot of great people
• 19:03
  that helped me get here and helped our business
• 19:05
  get here um a list that's very long too long
• 19:09
  to list but a lot of individuals that probably
• 19:12
  most people wouldn't always know or see but have
• 19:14
  been a huge part of us being successful yeah
• 19:17
  that's a good point i've been trying to live
• 19:19
  in that that more lately just being more grateful
• 19:24
  and recognizing that we can accomplish more together
• 19:29
  Not that I was ever void from my thought process
• 19:33
  or my belief system prior, but I think this market
• 19:37
  and the people that are gravitating towards each
• 19:41
  other are just teaching me that more and more.
• 19:44
  Talk a little bit about, you know, you started
• 19:47
  this thing up in 2012 or put in the pellet plant
• 19:51
  then, and Crosby has a reputation in the industry.
• 19:57
  for doing several things really really well and
• 20:01
  just want to learn a little bit more about your
• 20:04
  your dna and how you decided to put what in your
• 20:06
  dna like as example you're you're a high touch
• 20:10
  high customer service your marketing is absolutely
• 20:13
  phenomenal and it's been that way since since
• 20:17
  probably 2012 yeah yeah just to add one more
• 20:23
  point to that i always view crosby crosby hops
• 20:27
  blake as authentic it seems like you guys stick
• 20:33
  to who you are and have known who you are from
• 20:36
  the from the beginning it feels like yeah and
• 20:39
  how intentional was that or how like how did
• 20:41
  you get to that place man these are these are
• 20:45
  good and deep questions um it's whatever here
• 20:47
  blake yeah i think you know naturally those things
• 20:51
  come from the top on some level at least they
• 20:54
  start there and It's probably a little bit about
• 20:57
  growing up on the Crosby hop farm, and I started
• 21:01
  working on the farm as a pretty young kid and
• 21:04
  was always riding around with my dad, and it
• 21:06
  was just what we did, and it was a big part of
• 21:09
  our origin story and our family DNA. My mom's
• 21:14
  side is also hop farmers, the Smith family down
• 21:17
  in Oregon, not related to the Smiths in Yakima.
• 21:22
  It's a coincidence, but... That family also,
• 21:25
  same thing, just hops were always so central
• 21:28
  to what we did. And I didn't know any different
• 21:30
  growing up. And looking back now, probably was
• 21:34
  kind of odd if you're most families, you know,
• 21:37
  that's not something that you're talking about.
• 21:39
  You're not necessarily talking about work at
• 21:40
  Christmas or Thanksgiving or at your birthday
• 21:45
  party, but. We did. Somehow it always tied back
• 21:48
  to hops. Somehow everything always tied back
• 21:51
  to hops. It was really crazy, you know, looking
• 21:53
  back. At the time, I was so immune to it, I didn't
• 21:56
  even think about it. But we'd go over to my grandpa's
• 21:58
  house and just talk about hops for like two hours.
• 22:00
  He was like 85, you know. He was like in assisted
• 22:02
  living. He was still talking about hops, 85.
• 22:05
  We'd go over there and just talk. How's the market
• 22:08
  doing? What are you hearing from those guys?
• 22:11
  What's going on with these guys? That is cool.
• 22:13
  How are the mites this year? That's all I ever
• 22:17
  knew. I guess I'm trying to tie this together
• 22:23
  here, but I guess that passion and that authenticity
• 22:27
  was just born out of who we are as a family.
• 22:32
  Not saying that's always healthy. We probably
• 22:36
  have room to talk about other things that would
• 22:39
  be more family oriented too. And I think we've
• 22:42
  actually gotten better about that as the time
• 22:44
  has gone on. But I think we just have always
• 22:47
  been so obsessed with hops. Like sometimes too
• 22:52
  much. Love it. So I think naturally you build
• 22:55
  a business on that obsession with something and
• 22:57
  just that craving and desire to do it at the
• 23:00
  highest level. We were always that way with our
• 23:02
  farm. And naturally when we started it, to actually
• 23:05
  sell hops, that DNA was already inherent. And
• 23:08
  it showed up, obviously, in the merchant business
• 23:10
  differently. It showed up in how we went to market
• 23:13
  with the story, you know, how we showed up with
• 23:16
  marketing and sales, how we, you know, even the
• 23:20
  way we approached our processing and just all
• 23:23
  the little things. I think we've always been
• 23:25
  a brand and a company that really values the
• 23:28
  little things and detail. And I think... Probably
• 23:31
  my dad and I both share this when it comes to
• 23:33
  our craft is we're perfectionists. And that's
• 23:37
  really, really valuable sometimes. And it's also
• 23:39
  really gut -wrenching at times and something
• 23:43
  that we probably have more awareness around now
• 23:46
  and are learning how to manage that better. But
• 23:49
  it can be very beneficial when you're trying
• 23:52
  to create remarkable products and create and
• 23:56
  delight, you know, have good customer outcomes
• 23:58
  and delight customers. And I think for us, as
• 24:02
  I get older, learn more about myself is realizing
• 24:05
  that it's also okay if things aren't perfect
• 24:07
  sometimes. And the older I get, the more I'm
• 24:09
  comfortable with that. But I think all of that,
• 24:12
  to answer your question, really just naturally
• 24:16
  we approach things with like if we're going to
• 24:18
  do it, we're going to do it like 120%. I know
• 24:21
  that's really cliche, but that is how we live
• 24:23
  it. And I think we had a little bit of luck in
• 24:27
  there too. I think some of the right people.
• 24:29
  just happened to show up at the right time. And
• 24:32
  I have a tremendous passion for this business,
• 24:36
  and my dad does, and now my sister, and just
• 24:39
  all those things coalesce. And then we have this
• 24:41
  amazing craft market that I know has faced some
• 24:44
  challenges, but it's still an amazing market.
• 24:46
  I mean, geez, even though it's down a little
• 24:48
  bit right now, I mean, we would have given our
• 24:50
  right arm for this market 20 years ago. So I
• 24:52
  think we still have a lot to be grateful for.
• 24:54
  It's easy to lose sight of that right now. I'm
• 24:58
  just, yeah, I think that's how we got here. And
• 25:01
  that's what we continue to strive to be. And
• 25:03
  it's interesting because as the company grows,
• 25:06
  in some cases it gets easier. In other cases,
• 25:08
  it's gotten harder. And I think when you have
• 25:11
  success, it also comes, there's a little bit
• 25:13
  of back to the perfectionistic thing, but you
• 25:15
  kind of want to, you don't want to fail, right?
• 25:17
  And like the more success you have, it almost
• 25:19
  feels like there's more pressure. And I know
• 25:22
  that's not always the right way to think about
• 25:23
  it, but I think it's naturally. For me personally
• 25:26
  and I think for our business, we put a lot of
• 25:27
  pressure on ourselves, which sometimes I have
• 25:29
  to remind ourselves that it's okay if things
• 25:31
  don't go perfect. I know it emanates through
• 25:34
  our team, and sometimes it's like, you know,
• 25:36
  it's okay, guys. That customer maybe didn't like
• 25:39
  that particular lot. That's okay. There's other
• 25:42
  lots, or we'll ensure that next time we make
• 25:46
  that a better experience. But I think because
• 25:48
  we started so small and we were so dead set on
• 25:50
  every customer experience being perfect, which
• 25:52
  just isn't. feasible mathematically, even as
• 25:55
  you scale. And, uh, I know that that's something
• 25:58
  that we still strive for, but as we've gotten
• 26:01
  bigger, we've had to accept that, um, there's
• 26:04
  going to be some things that aren't always going
• 26:06
  to be perfect. Yeah. I've been trying to come
• 26:09
  to terms with that. I've gotten wrapped up in
• 26:12
  the, uh, everything needs to be perfect. And
• 26:14
  I don't want to commit or take that next step
• 26:17
  unless I can see or mentally wrap my head around
• 26:22
  perfection. There's a saying that's floating
• 26:25
  around our office this year, perfection is the
• 26:27
  enemy of progress. That's a good one. Indeed.
• 26:31
  It doesn't mean, like, obviously you still have
• 26:33
  high standards and all that. I just think perfectionism
• 26:36
  is actually like some sort of trauma response,
• 26:39
  they say, or something. Oh, I think so. Yeah,
• 26:41
  it can go beyond healthy levels. And when I talk
• 26:45
  about our business and, you know, we certainly
• 26:47
  still have very high standards, but trying to
• 26:49
  let go of this idea, which is totally unrealistic.
• 26:52
  everything can literally be perfect at the same
• 26:54
  time because that'll drive you mad. Maybe this
• 26:56
  doesn't land anywhere, but I think for me, as
• 26:59
  I've tried to get under the hood of that over
• 27:01
  the years, for me, I think perfection equals
• 27:06
  acceptance to some degree. I mean, does that
• 27:10
  land or is that just completely off the mark?
• 27:12
  It does. And candidly, from our origin story,
• 27:16
  which was... fairly humble i mean we've been
• 27:18
  in the hop industry a long time and our family's
• 27:20
  been well respected but we've never been a player
• 27:23
  so to speak we just kind of stayed in our lane
• 27:25
  we grew a couple hundred acres i think my grandpa's
• 27:28
  saying was you know stay small keep it all you
• 27:31
  know this kind of thing that's a good one it's
• 27:32
  a good one and it served him well in that era
• 27:35
  but in this era you know collaboration and thinking
• 27:39
  bigger and having vision is what really is going
• 27:41
  to make the difference in terms of success or
• 27:45
  maybe not being as successful so I think letting
• 27:48
  go of some of the perfection stuff and embracing
• 27:52
  the bigger vision and progress, I guess, to tie
• 27:54
  it together, like Drew said, is increasingly
• 27:56
  where my head's going. What about, or do you
• 28:00
  have the belief that you could do this on your
• 28:04
  own? I think I've heard you talk about that a
• 28:06
  little bit in the past where it's like, we can
• 28:08
  do this on our own. Do I feel that way now or
• 28:11
  did I feel that way? Did you do you? Oh, yeah.
• 28:17
  i think i felt that way for a long time and our
• 28:20
  our the legacy of our family has been pretty
• 28:23
  independent and we've never been big collaborators
• 28:26
  i mean certainly great community members great
• 28:30
  reputation always paid our bills you know all
• 28:33
  those classic farmer principles always applied
• 28:35
  at our house as much as anywhere but not as much
• 28:38
  into partnerships you know that was actually
• 28:41
  kind of a dirty word probably at our kitchen
• 28:43
  table You know, there's no such thing as a good
• 28:46
  partnership. You know, some of these types of
• 28:48
  rhetoric or, you know, these are things, I don't
• 28:50
  even know if that's what was said, but I'm just
• 28:52
  pulling something from the past in my memory.
• 28:53
  But some of that stuff kind of resonated and
• 28:57
  probably limited our ability to be more progressive.
• 29:01
  And, you know, I know there's grower groups that
• 29:03
  have been really successful over the years and
• 29:06
  those that have been more open -minded to collaboration,
• 29:08
  partnerships, trying something a little different
• 29:12
  and new. I think in any industry, those are the
• 29:16
  folks that tend to succeed. And I think when
• 29:20
  we look back on the history of the hop industry,
• 29:21
  there's been some successful ventures where growers
• 29:24
  have come together. And obviously, look at YCH,
• 29:27
  right? That's hugely successful and a great example
• 29:30
  of that. And I think in our case, we were always
• 29:34
  real narrow. And I can acknowledge that now.
• 29:37
  And my dad has also acknowledged that. It's like,
• 29:40
  yeah, in the past, I probably should have been
• 29:41
  a little more open -minded. To answer your question,
• 29:45
  yes, we thought we could do it on our own, and
• 29:47
  I guess we kind of did now and going forward.
• 29:51
  Maybe we could, but I also don't know if it would
• 29:53
  be as fun. And I think I want to have fun, and
• 29:56
  I want to be able to continue to create things
• 30:02
  that are bigger than myself, and I think we all
• 30:04
  have that need a little bit, some more than others.
• 30:07
  That's a real core need for me, like very core
• 30:10
  for me to have personal fulfillment. And I'm
• 30:15
  not always the person that has to be in the spotlight
• 30:17
  or have it be all about us or our company. That's
• 30:20
  certainly important. But as I get older, I think
• 30:23
  my need for just building something bigger than
• 30:25
  myself and building something that can create
• 30:27
  the most value for the most amount of people
• 30:30
  and stakeholders is actually more inspiring.
• 30:32
  Yeah. In the words of Drew, doing life with others.
• 30:36
  Oh, yeah. You know, this makes me think it kind
• 30:39
  of goes back to the last episode about how did
• 30:41
  we get here? but thinking about the independence
• 30:45
  of everybody. And I hadn't really thought of
• 30:48
  this until you were just talking that, you know,
• 30:52
  everybody said they could do it on their own
• 30:54
  and service the customers and get the contracts
• 30:59
  and everybody's fighting for market share and
• 31:01
  things like that. But 30%, 40%, too many acres
• 31:05
  went in the ground because everybody's... anticipating
• 31:08
  volume that they may or may not have happened
• 31:10
  but what was really happening in the market was
• 31:13
  contracts were trading between entities or you
• 31:17
  know the market flattened out or whatever but
• 31:18
  because everybody was so independent and this
• 31:23
  goes all the way up to the big merchants ych
• 31:26
  haas and i know you can't collaborate in certain
• 31:30
  ways but there was a lot of independence all
• 31:33
  the way through yeah Is there a question? Maybe
• 31:39
  I'm just opining. Well, I think, I mean, farmers
• 31:43
  by nature, I think are probably above average
• 31:46
  index to being independent. Probably if you were
• 31:49
  to look at the population at large, I think farmers
• 31:52
  lean pretty hard to being independent. And I
• 31:55
  think the lifestyle kind of lends itself to people
• 31:57
  that desire independence and risk. It's a very
• 32:00
  risky way to make a living compared to... other
• 32:04
  avenues. Oh, yeah. And I think it tends to attract
• 32:07
  a certain persona, and I think naturally we often
• 32:12
  tend to think a little more independently, and
• 32:15
  we have our way of doing things, and it's the
• 32:18
  right way because it's our way. I do think with
• 32:21
  the next generation, we're seeing that change,
• 32:23
  which I think is really healthy. These conversations,
• 32:26
  I think, are reflective of that, and I think
• 32:29
  those farms that are going to continue to thrive.
• 32:32
  for generations to come are going to have to
• 32:35
  be the ones that open their minds a little bit
• 32:37
  and stay curious. That's really hard to do. But
• 32:40
  those that can do that, I think those are the
• 32:43
  farms I'd bet on. I know for us, some of those
• 32:47
  realizations came at a time of pain, which is
• 32:53
  not an easy way to have those, but I think they're
• 32:57
  going to serve us well. Yeah, thinking about
• 33:00
  your comments on... Partnerships were a dirty
• 33:03
  word. I kind of feel like we had that in our
• 33:07
  business as well. I don't know where they came
• 33:10
  from because we did engage in partnerships along
• 33:13
  the way, but they're never really formalized
• 33:15
  and we never realized all the benefits that came
• 33:18
  from them. But I wonder where that came from.
• 33:21
  Like why was independence... I think it's got
• 33:24
  to be fear. I think a lot of it is fear. Did
• 33:28
  Crosby's have any negative... partnerships along
• 33:32
  the way or was that just something that you walked
• 33:35
  into like that mentality it's a good point because
• 33:38
  we probably really didn't because we never engaged
• 33:41
  in them in a meaningful way nothing that would
• 33:44
  have actually been material in terms of potential
• 33:47
  upside but also anytime you have real upside
• 33:50
  potential there's probably a risk of downside
• 33:52
  yeah and to your point drew i think it probably
• 33:55
  was fear -based and Yeah, I don't know where
• 33:58
  all that comes from. I guess fear is a very human
• 34:00
  emotion. And being in farming, there is a lot
• 34:04
  of reasons to be afraid at times. And so maybe
• 34:08
  that also is natural, lends itself to farmers.
• 34:10
  Maybe farmers tend to be a little more fearful
• 34:13
  as much as they're also independent. But I don't
• 34:15
  know. I mean, I know for us, to answer your question,
• 34:18
  no, we never really did. I know we had some attempts
• 34:21
  along the way and some really bad outcomes. in
• 34:28
  some of those outcomes. Some of them we didn't.
• 34:31
  So I think it took us a while to wrap our heads
• 34:33
  around kind of like what type of partnerships
• 34:35
  do we want moving forward? Who are the people
• 34:38
  we want to be in partnership with? And that's
• 34:40
  a tricky thing. There's so much overlap in the
• 34:43
  industry and certain ways that it could work,
• 34:47
  a lot of ways where it couldn't, and just kind
• 34:50
  of trying to sort through all of that's been
• 34:54
  really challenging. I think it goes back to the
• 34:56
  point Blake was making about perfection and how
• 35:01
  much can you control about your, your destiny
• 35:05
  and your future. And I think in my observation,
• 35:07
  that's the biggest problem that anytime you try
• 35:10
  to see a partnership come together in this industry
• 35:13
  of some sort, it's kind of like an all or nothing
• 35:17
  type thing. Which, so you have to know every
• 35:21
  single outcome that can happen. And here's how
• 35:23
  this operates and here's how this operates. And
• 35:25
  there's no gray, it's all black and white. And
• 35:28
  then some sticking point will happen. And, you
• 35:33
  know, we've been talking a lot lately about this
• 35:34
  airline industry thing. I was just making this
• 35:37
  point earlier that there's one world alliance
• 35:40
  that has Alaska Airlines and American Airlines
• 35:43
  in them. They're both at Seattle Tacoma International
• 35:46
  Airport and they compete with each other. But
• 35:48
  they're in an alliance and they're in all kinds
• 35:51
  of other airports all over the country. But they
• 35:56
  seem to have gotten around it. But as an industry,
• 35:58
  we seem to be like, well. Yeah. And I wonder,
• 36:02
  I mean, the airline industry is brutal. As we
• 36:04
  know, you look at hop industry is tough. I mean,
• 36:06
  look at the airline industry over the years,
• 36:08
  just a number of bankruptcies. Yeah. Where's
• 36:10
  our government bailouts in the hop industry?
• 36:14
  Right. But I do think because both industries
• 36:16
  are tend to be. pretty, pretty tough and, you
• 36:19
  know, typically low margin. The times where I
• 36:26
  think these hard times do drive, necessitate
• 36:30
  more collaborative approaches, and I think that's
• 36:33
  what you've seen in the airline industry. And
• 36:36
  I'd like to think, from what I can tell, at least
• 36:37
  as a, you know, as a consumer, that those synergies
• 36:41
  make the customer experience better as well.
• 36:43
  Absolutely. When I can go into a... various lounge
• 36:46
  of whatever airline, and because I'm part of
• 36:49
  this alliance, I get access even though I'm not
• 36:51
  necessarily a cardholder of that airline. You
• 36:54
  know, there's plenty of examples of that, but
• 36:56
  I think in many ways, you know, these hard times,
• 36:59
  there's a lot of fruit that can come out of a
• 37:02
  hard time, and I think the airline industry,
• 37:04
  you've seen that, and I think now it's a more
• 37:05
  stable industry. I think the hop industry probably
• 37:08
  has some similar opportunities, especially, I
• 37:10
  mean, I know we're in an acute period right now
• 37:12
  that's really tough. But even if you look out
• 37:14
  down the road, this industry is going to continue
• 37:18
  to face some adversity, just with you guys mentioned
• 37:20
  it a couple episodes ago, but all the capacity
• 37:23
  that's in the industry. That's going to continue
• 37:25
  to be a challenge when you look at just market
• 37:28
  pricing and the ability to turn a profit on a
• 37:31
  farm. The craft industry has obviously matured,
• 37:35
  and who knows where that's going to go, but there's
• 37:37
  obviously some headwinds there. And just the
• 37:39
  general sentiment around drinking is changing
• 37:41
  pretty quickly in this country. And probably
• 37:44
  in other Western countries. So I don't think
• 37:47
  necessarily all that's bad. I think there's opportunities
• 37:48
  in all that. But in the intermediate term, I
• 37:52
  think there's going to continue to be some headwinds
• 37:54
  on the hop industry, even beyond this acute period
• 37:57
  we're in now. And I think that's where collaboration
• 37:59
  and finding those that you can work with with
• 38:02
  shared values and shared vision and synergies
• 38:05
  that can create not only better organizations,
• 38:07
  but a better customer experience. Ultimately,
• 38:11
  the customer, I think, out of all that wins if
• 38:14
  it's done right. Oh, absolutely. So what challenges
• 38:19
  have you seen as you've grown your business?
• 38:22
  And what challenges do you see as we look forward?
• 38:27
  The biggest challenge in our business probably
• 38:30
  early on was the family dynamic. We've never
• 38:34
  seen that here. I know that's just us. I totally
• 38:37
  acknowledge that's only us. But, you know, we
• 38:45
  went through many years of that, and I think
• 38:47
  that's something that I know most farms probably
• 38:50
  deal with, and, you know, father -son dynamic.
• 38:52
  I think that's something that's been happening
• 38:55
  since the beginning of time, right? And my dad
• 38:58
  and I were not immune to that, and I'm sure each
• 39:00
  dynamic plays out in its own unique way. Ours
• 39:03
  was really hard for a long time, and we finally...
• 39:08
  Got some help with that and brought in some people
• 39:11
  smarter than us back to that comment earlier
• 39:13
  and some family business coaches and even a psychologist
• 39:17
  to help us work through some stuff that was actually
• 39:20
  probably our biggest existential risk was not
• 39:22
  the hop market. It was ourselves. And I'd say,
• 39:26
  you know, that was the biggest challenge when
• 39:28
  we were ramping up because there was a lot of
• 39:30
  excitement, but there's also a lot of stress
• 39:31
  growing a business quickly. And a lot of risk.
• 39:34
  I mean, we were borrowing a lot of money. We're
• 39:36
  making a lot of bets. It wouldn't have taken
• 39:38
  too many of the wrong bets at the wrong time
• 39:40
  to derail that. And then when there's family
• 39:43
  stress on top of it, you know, the last thing
• 39:45
  we needed was that. When you were growing, as
• 39:50
  in like adding new staff members and kind of
• 39:53
  growing your reach and growing support roles
• 39:56
  and things like that, was that something that
• 39:59
  was in a kind of strategic? or like, okay, we're
• 40:05
  going to go into California now or we're going
• 40:07
  to go into here, okay? Or is it something more
• 40:10
  reactionary where we have opportunity here so
• 40:14
  we're going to do it? I think largely strategic.
• 40:17
  I think that's an area where I naturally thrive
• 40:21
  in that area. It's something I enjoy. I think
• 40:23
  where I struggle is as we... build out a strategy
• 40:26
  and go into execution. That's something I struggle
• 40:28
  with. Not that I can't execute. It's just not
• 40:31
  my skill set. And when you're in an area that's
• 40:33
  not your natural skill set, it's just draining
• 40:35
  and de -energizing, even if you can technically
• 40:38
  do it. And that was actually always a rub a little
• 40:41
  bit in our family because I was definitely more
• 40:43
  that person, which you need that person, right?
• 40:45
  But you also need the execution piece. And growing
• 40:49
  up on a farm, it was all about execution. We
• 40:51
  never really strategized. And so this idea of
• 40:53
  being strategic is really this modern, construct
• 40:56
  for our family that probably in the early days
• 40:59
  was looked down on a bit versus like just getting
• 41:01
  out there and going to work oh yeah yeah so that's
• 41:06
  something we had to wrestle with I think now
• 41:08
  as we zoom out and look at you know it's easier
• 41:11
  with hindsight but I think that our family now
• 41:14
  sees the value of that obviously and really puts
• 41:17
  you know a lot of stock in that and and we've
• 41:19
  surrounded ourself or I've surrounded myself
• 41:21
  with people that are much better than me at executing
• 41:24
  and figuring out some of the detail stuff. I
• 41:27
  can be good with details if it's, like, something
• 41:29
  I love. Like, we put together this concentrated
• 41:32
  pellet plant, CGX, and for whatever reason, I
• 41:35
  just took to that project and loved every minute
• 41:37
  of it and down to every little screw on that
• 41:40
  machine, right? And that was cool to me, but
• 41:43
  then I could have something else that is even
• 41:45
  more simple but has details of things that I'm
• 41:48
  just not passionate about, and it, like, drives
• 41:50
  me nuts. It's kind of interesting. You learn
• 41:52
  that about yourself as you get older. But I think
• 41:54
  back to my point is just bringing people in.
• 41:58
  And this sounds easy to say. It's really hard.
• 42:01
  And you guys probably know this. It's really
• 42:03
  hard. It took a long time. And it's a continual
• 42:05
  process. But finding the right people for the
• 42:09
  business long term. And sometimes, frankly, there's
• 42:12
  people that are meant to be in your business
• 42:13
  for a season. I don't mean literally just one
• 42:16
  season, although sometimes that's the case, too.
• 42:18
  But, you know, there's a season or a chapter
• 42:19
  in the business. And we probably have had three
• 42:21
  chapters or so, maybe four. And, you know, there's
• 42:24
  certain chapters or seasons where those are absolutely
• 42:27
  the right people. And you go to the next chapter
• 42:29
  and it's like nobody's fault. But for whatever
• 42:31
  reason, they're just not the right people anymore.
• 42:34
  And it's usually for everyone's benefit that,
• 42:36
  you know, you both move on to the next chapter.
• 42:39
  Then there's those special people that. continue
• 42:42
  to grow and evolve and are, you know, still continuing
• 42:45
  to be the right people through all the chapters.
• 42:48
  The older I get, the more I realize it's really
• 42:50
  about people. And I know that's super cliche.
• 42:53
  You guys put it on your box, which I respect
• 42:55
  that. And I know it means a lot to you guys too.
• 42:58
  So I don't mean cliche, like disparagingly, but
• 43:00
  it's easy to say that as a leader. It's another
• 43:03
  thing to actually live that way. And I've struggled
• 43:06
  with that. Like the first half of the business,
• 43:08
  it was just brute force. And I wasn't always
• 43:11
  the best. manager or leader with people and somewhere
• 43:15
  along the line just with some coaching i got
• 43:17
  and just feed hard feedback i learned that oh
• 43:20
  this is actually what it's about i think a lot
• 43:22
  of people have always wondered like oh what's
• 43:24
  the secret you know oh is it is it like uh you
• 43:27
  know some special investor behind this or which
• 43:30
  there's not or is there some like you know some
• 43:33
  angle they have we're not seeing or you know
• 43:35
  i don't know it's i can show you the playbook
• 43:38
  it's not that complicated The people thing is
• 43:40
  complicated, though. The people thing is really
• 43:42
  complicated. Really complicated. And by no means
• 43:44
  am I saying we've mastered it, but I think just
• 43:46
  the fact I finally realized that probably five
• 43:48
  years ago and just continued to double down on
• 43:51
  my efforts in not only just finding and attracting
• 43:55
  the right people, but nurturing the people we
• 43:56
  have. Yeah, that seasons of life reality is a
• 44:01
  challenging one as well. We've struggled with
• 44:04
  that. Where somebody is great for 30 years. but
• 44:10
  it's just not working right now because things
• 44:13
  have changed. That's really hard. That's literally
• 44:16
  the hardest part. That's it. That's the one thing.
• 44:19
  Growing hops, not saying that's easy, but that's,
• 44:21
  you know, pelletizing hops, okay, got to figure
• 44:23
  that out, got to do it well. Selling hops, definitely
• 44:26
  not easy, but there's plans and strategies you
• 44:28
  can employ. The people side and the culture side,
• 44:32
  I mean, that's all the soft, you know, the EQ
• 44:35
  side, the emotional intelligence side. But it
• 44:37
  is the secret sauce if you can find it. And there's
• 44:39
  no textbook formula that you can just plug into
• 44:42
  your company. But once you find what works for
• 44:45
  you and it's creating success, nurture the hell
• 44:48
  out of that. Yeah, and we just came out of a
• 44:50
  period of time where we had a lot of toxicity
• 44:52
  at the senior level. And that was really challenging
• 44:57
  to work through. And now being on the other side
• 45:00
  of that and looking back, I can see how distracting
• 45:03
  that was for the company and then learning. that
• 45:07
  I run from toxicity. So being a leader or arguably
• 45:13
  one of the leaders in the company and running
• 45:17
  from toxicity when the company was going through
• 45:19
  a hard time was a hard realization for me. And
• 45:23
  then also a great learning opportunity of, to
• 45:27
  your point, like how can I nurture what's working
• 45:29
  and let go what isn't. Random question. Yeah.
• 45:34
  Going back to your College studies. How much
• 45:38
  do you think the history degree influences your
• 45:41
  leadership strategy? Oh, that's a good and random
• 45:46
  question. Yeah. So I started out as a business
• 45:50
  major and had this simple story in my head that
• 45:54
  I was bad at math that started when I was a kid
• 45:57
  because I probably didn't have. Isn't it weird
• 46:00
  how those things get. planted in your brain or
• 46:04
  your being at a young age and how they can carry
• 46:07
  on through life. I carried that like as like
• 46:10
  a, I don't know, it was like a little demon.
• 46:12
  It was like, it's just my little secret. Like
• 46:14
  I really suck at math. But like most people don't
• 46:17
  know that. Like that was my story probably as
• 46:19
  a youth. And then even though I started out as
• 46:22
  a business major, that story haunted me into
• 46:24
  my bachelor studies and the math scared me enough
• 46:28
  that I actually switched my major just because
• 46:30
  I wanted to avoid the math. Man, I had a business
• 46:32
  degree. I did that at one point, too. It wasn't
• 46:34
  for a business degree. It was because I was always
• 46:37
  interested in architecture and landscape architecture.
• 46:39
  I think I actually went down the landscape architecture
• 46:42
  route for a little bit, like very briefly. And
• 46:46
  then I bumped up against math. And I was like,
• 46:48
  nope, I'm out. I can't do this. I didn't even
• 46:50
  really try. Exactly. But I had that. I didn't
• 46:52
  try either. Perfection, fear, fear of failure,
• 46:55
  fear of acceptance are pre -programmed into my
• 46:57
  brain. So I remember at U of O, I think it was
• 47:01
  called Math 111. I don't know if that was just
• 47:03
  a U of O thing or if that's a university thing,
• 47:05
  but it was supposedly the most failed class at
• 47:07
  Oregon. And so again, for someone that already
• 47:10
  has math anxiety, and then you're hearing this
• 47:12
  rhetoric on campus, and I literally had to pass
• 47:16
  that class to continue on with my business studies.
• 47:18
  And I went to the first two sessions, and by
• 47:21
  session three, I was just full. I'm out, through
• 47:24
  the white flag, not doing this. I will find a
• 47:28
  way to get a degree, but I'm not going to get
• 47:30
  there through math 111. And for a while, because
• 47:33
  I also in my free time, I love playing music.
• 47:35
  And so I was like, gosh, maybe I'll just do a
• 47:37
  music major. That'd be awesome. That'd be fun.
• 47:40
  I could definitely do that. There's no math.
• 47:42
  And ultimately decided that might be a little
• 47:44
  too far afield. And so history was something
• 47:47
  that I thought I could tell my parents that I
• 47:50
  was maybe one day I'd be a lawyer. So this would
• 47:52
  serve me well. And I could do history, which
• 47:54
  is kind of like pre -law, I guess they would
• 47:56
  say. That was how I spun it to my family because
• 47:59
  they were definitely really concerned about the
• 48:02
  whole not doing a business degree thing, which
• 48:05
  I think everyone's a little more open -minded
• 48:07
  in society now, but this is 20 years ago. And
• 48:11
  coming back home saying you weren't pursuing
• 48:14
  your business degree when you grew up in a family
• 48:16
  business just didn't land very well. So I kind
• 48:19
  of had to spin that story to like, well, I think
• 48:21
  I might want to be a lawyer. History actually
• 48:23
  would be a really good course of study. So you
• 48:27
  think it's serving you now? Actually, I do. So
• 48:30
  the irony of all of this is it turns out I start
• 48:32
  my own business, and once you have a reason to
• 48:34
  care about math, you get really good at it. So
• 48:37
  I'm actually pretty good at math. It wasn't true.
• 48:40
  It wasn't true. So that all worked out, and then
• 48:42
  I ended up going to Willamette University, which
• 48:44
  is a university in Oregon, a private university,
• 48:48
  and did an MBA there. And so I ended up still.
• 48:51
  getting a business degree. And I did that in
• 48:53
  my early days when I started Crosby hops and
• 48:55
  I would go to class at night, probably in like
• 48:58
  20, 2011 to 2013. It's right when we were ramping
• 49:01
  up Crosby hops. I did my MBA at night in Portland
• 49:03
  at Willamette university, which was actually
• 49:05
  super awesome. Was that pretty cool though, to
• 49:07
  take what was actually happening and, and learn
• 49:11
  about it. Like I was like, I love school. I couldn't
• 49:14
  wait to go to class. Cause I was literally taking
• 49:16
  something from work that day. I'm taking like
• 49:18
  international business I'm taking marketing and
• 49:20
  I'm taking accounting like it was I was like
• 49:22
  on fire yeah and it was that's cool it's the
• 49:25
  best way to learn it taught me a huge lesson
• 49:26
  there but I will say the history degree it's
• 49:29
  not all about facts and figures with history
• 49:31
  you know I think it's about about learning human
• 49:34
  nature yeah and maybe there's even some psychology
• 49:36
  in there and I think for me just it really helped
• 49:40
  me I think be a better communicator and we had
• 49:42
  to write a lot of freaking papers and you know,
• 49:44
  history program and read a lot. And I think that
• 49:47
  just made me a better learner and a better communicator,
• 49:49
  probably a better writer, which I think, I do
• 49:52
  think writing is a really important skillset
• 49:54
  regardless of chat GPT, but you guys love that
• 49:58
  thing. I do love that thing. One thing I wanted
• 50:00
  to say though, going back to the perfectionistic
• 50:03
  thing, I forgot to mention, and I remember where
• 50:05
  I was going with one of those thoughts was growing
• 50:07
  up on a small farm in Oregon, you know, Oregon's
• 50:09
  a grow, a small growing region for those that
• 50:12
  don't know. But are listening, you know, Oregon
• 50:14
  is about, say, I don't know, depends on the year,
• 50:17
  but 10 to 15 % of U .S. hop production. Yakima
• 50:21
  has always been, you know, dominant region. So
• 50:24
  back to psychology, I think growing up on a farm,
• 50:27
  small farm in Oregon, there was probably a little
• 50:29
  bit of just this inferiority. Like, hey, we're
• 50:32
  the little guys. Hey, like, we can't compete.
• 50:34
  We're lucky we're even still around. We're lucky
• 50:36
  dealers even come down here and talk to us. And
• 50:39
  I had a lot of those thought processes in my
• 50:41
  mind from an early age. And so the perfectionism
• 50:45
  probably was born out of some of that too. It
• 50:47
  was like, I don't know if we even belong in this
• 50:49
  arena. And here we are now really taking a risk
• 50:53
  and being vulnerable, putting ourselves out there,
• 50:55
  telling our story, building a brand. We definitely
• 50:58
  took some arrows those first few years from some
• 51:01
  of the community and just had to kind of roll
• 51:05
  with that. And I think... it just fueled the
• 51:09
  perfectionism because I was like, there's no
• 51:11
  way I'm going to let them be right. There's no
• 51:13
  way we're going to fail. And I don't care what
• 51:16
  it takes. Everything's going to have to be perfect
• 51:18
  plus because I'm not going to deal with quality
• 51:22
  issues. I'm not going to deal with critique.
• 51:24
  I'm not going to deal with I told you so's. This
• 51:27
  is going to be wildly successful, but we're going
• 51:30
  to have to ensure, because we've got a lot of
• 51:31
  arrows coming our way, we're going to have to
• 51:33
  ensure that we are absolutely the best at our
• 51:35
  craft. Again, some of that can go into the realm
• 51:39
  of being too much and unhealthy, but it necessitated
• 51:43
  our drive. What we wanted to accomplish required
• 51:46
  us to be that way. Yeah, and I remember when
• 51:49
  Willamette and Nugget acreage was ramping down
• 51:52
  in Oregon because that was the backbone of Oregon
• 51:55
  production. A lot of people were saying Oregon
• 51:58
  wasn't going to survive. Au contraire. I mean,
• 52:08
  Oregon fits a very valuable space in the market.
• 52:13
  They have some dope hops down there. Yeah, and
• 52:15
  a lot of them are slightly different, which is
• 52:17
  good. Different in aroma, different in spec,
• 52:21
  but good. Yeah, I think a lot of craft brewers
• 52:25
  are starting to learn and wake up to that is,
• 52:28
  of course, there's incredible hops in Yakima,
• 52:30
  and there's also incredible hops in Oregon, and
• 52:33
  sometimes they have a little different twist
• 52:35
  with... the regionality and some varieties are
• 52:38
  more pronounced than others, but those that are
• 52:40
  can almost be totally different hops. It's really
• 52:43
  remarkable and just amazing how the plant will
• 52:46
  manifest differently in those regions. So you'd
• 52:52
  mentioned earlier about we're at this acute point
• 52:54
  in the hop industry. What do you think were some
• 52:58
  of the main drivers of how we got here? Well,
• 53:02
  I definitely listened to episode two. I think
• 53:04
  it was episode two, and I thought you guys did
• 53:06
  a great job outlining some of the areas, some
• 53:09
  of the hot spots. I think it's a very classic
• 53:13
  example of success creates more success and growth
• 53:20
  until it doesn't. And we all have this mentality
• 53:23
  that things are going to not change. I think
• 53:26
  that's a human thing that we all carry. that
• 53:28
  this is going to last forever this is if it's
• 53:31
  this way today it's probably going to be that
• 53:32
  way tomorrow and oftentimes it is and so you
• 53:35
  continue to be lulled into that narrative and
• 53:38
  I think the hop industry and you guys hit the
• 53:41
  nail on the head I think caught a few breaks
• 53:44
  along the way too with just some opportunistic
• 53:46
  pressure relief valves with the alpha market
• 53:49
  that kind of bailed us out of some aroma stuff
• 53:51
  you know pre -covid and it just seemed like the
• 53:54
  hop industry couldn't lose And I think just the
• 53:58
  overconfidence that came from that is a very
• 54:00
  natural human thing. So I don't want to indict
• 54:03
  anyone too much. I think that the broad scale
• 54:08
  planting and some of the speculation that was
• 54:12
  born out of that overconfidence was really the
• 54:15
  ultimate driver of where we ended up. And, you
• 54:19
  know, we can certainly point fingers. I know
• 54:20
  that's not the purpose of this, but I think on
• 54:24
  some level we all played into that, right? Yeah,
• 54:27
  I didn't think it was going to last forever.
• 54:28
  I thought we had longer than we had. I didn't
• 54:31
  think it was going to be as abrupt. Yeah, that
• 54:33
  cliff came really fast. The red flag for me was
• 54:37
  during COVID, I thought we'd see a more tempered
• 54:42
  approach from the hop industry and some of the
• 54:45
  major players. There was a lot of confidence
• 54:47
  through COVID, which I will say. from my chair
• 54:50
  was, was odd. I remember commenting on that and
• 54:53
  just like, I don't know where all this confidence
• 54:54
  is coming from. And if you look at the data,
• 54:56
  it's like draft beer has been turned off now
• 54:58
  for however long it was. And that's 40 % of the
• 55:01
  craft market at the time. And I get that the
• 55:04
  export market's growing, but this is an international
• 55:06
  issue, this pandemic. I was trying, I couldn't,
• 55:10
  I wasn't able to do that calculus, but I had
• 55:12
  to assume that someone knew the math better than
• 55:14
  me. Back to my math trauma. But I think that
• 55:19
  was the biggest issue. I think that COVID obviously
• 55:23
  presented a unique challenge, hopefully a once
• 55:26
  -in -a -lifetime challenge. I feel like the hop
• 55:28
  industry kind of did this to themselves during
• 55:31
  that period. It just seemed like it was one of
• 55:34
  those scenarios where, you know, like in the
• 55:36
  movies, you're going around a racetrack, and
• 55:39
  there's a crash, and there's all this smoke and
• 55:42
  fire, and you just hit the throttle harder to
• 55:45
  get through it, not knowing what's on the other
• 55:47
  side. Sometimes you make it out, everything's
• 55:53
  fine. This time, that didn't work. No. There
• 55:57
  was a car on the other side of the smoke. How
• 55:59
  far down on acres was your ranch? Well, actually
• 56:06
  not too bad. Probably 10%. Yeah, it's not bad
• 56:10
  at all. Yeah. I have to assume that it was a
• 56:14
  smaller amount because you didn't have as many
• 56:18
  merchant contracts. Yeah, it was like the...
• 56:21
  Is that correct? Yeah, and I mean, it's no secret
• 56:25
  that, you know, there's some proprietary varieties,
• 56:28
  Citra Mosaic, that dominate a lot of the market
• 56:31
  share. And just the way we're positioned, we're
• 56:34
  not in that game directly. And so naturally,
• 56:37
  we built our business probably in a... The downside
• 56:41
  of that during the big boom was we were kind
• 56:44
  of on the sidelines. The upside of that is during
• 56:47
  the downturn, we didn't have as much risk exposure.
• 56:50
  And so our business has taken some hits. Don't
• 56:53
  get me wrong. We're feeling this. But I don't
• 56:56
  think we're feeling the full magnitude as if
• 56:58
  we were as big in some of those proprietories.
• 57:02
  So that's something I've seen over the years
• 57:03
  in the hop industry is like the winning hand
• 57:06
  can very quickly become the losing hand and vice
• 57:09
  versa. And it really is a long game. And we've
• 57:12
  seen that over the years. It's like a craps table.
• 57:16
  It's just up, down. Pretty much. Yeah, because
• 57:21
  I'll bet you if we looked at our portfolio, I'll
• 57:24
  bet you our direct sales, with the exception
• 57:26
  of one, we're probably about in that 10 % range,
• 57:31
  10 % down on direct contracts. But our merchant
• 57:34
  contracts went completely sideways. 50? 50%,
• 57:40
  yeah. Which they're recovering, but they're not
• 57:44
  going to fully recover and they're going to be
• 57:46
  lopsided in where they're going to moving forward.
• 57:50
  Yeah, I mean, I think talking through this now
• 57:53
  just supports, you know, doing more direct to
• 57:57
  brewer business because you remove layers and
• 58:00
  have more transparency with your customers. Doing
• 58:05
  more direct or doing more collaboration. Yeah.
• 58:10
  In the supply chain. Yes. Just to kind of go
• 58:16
  off on a tangent for a minute, what is your view
• 58:18
  on proprietaries? This is something that I think
• 58:22
  is going to continually be teased out this season
• 58:25
  of the podcast. Are we doing this like seasons?
• 58:28
  Oh, yeah, dude. We're going episodes, seasons.
• 58:30
  We're going full podcast talk. And strategy.
• 58:33
  What's our, like, naming mechanism? Is it going
• 58:35
  to be, like, 2025 or, like, season one or season
• 58:39
  A? I don't like season A. Season alpha. Season
• 58:43
  alpha. Next year could be beta because we're
• 58:47
  going to be beta. Beta. Sorry, go back to where
• 58:51
  you were going. This season. No, proprietary
• 58:55
  is because there's all these, whenever I hear
• 58:57
  the word proprietary, I think of these statements
• 59:01
  that have been. in the last handful of years,
• 59:04
  which is, as an example, oh, the hop industry
• 59:08
  has never been healthier because of all the proprietary
• 59:10
  varieties. And it just, it does not land with
• 59:13
  me. Healthy for some, not healthy for others.
• 59:18
  And that can be fine. It just, I think it's been
• 59:22
  an interesting landscape and it's going to continue
• 59:24
  to be an interesting landscape in the world of
• 59:26
  public and private genetics. And we have a breeding
• 59:31
  program. You've started a breeding program. And
• 59:34
  I think we both believe that there's interesting,
• 59:38
  exciting things that are being born out of those
• 59:40
  programs right now. And they are going to have
• 59:45
  the opportunity to follow the same patterns that
• 59:49
  proprietary varieties or proprietary genetics
• 59:51
  have over, let's say, the last 10 years. Or maybe
• 59:55
  there's a different way to do it. Maybe it's
• 59:57
  the same way. I don't know. As I talk about that,
• 1:00:00
  what are your thoughts? Yeah, I think I agree
• 1:00:04
  with what you said. And I think that tightly
• 1:00:06
  controlled proprietary varieties have had their
• 1:00:10
  pluses and certainly their minuses. And I guess
• 1:00:13
  it's probably like a lot of things in life. There's
• 1:00:15
  no perfect solution. I think in many regards,
• 1:00:20
  you know, they help fuel. A modernization of
• 1:00:23
  the hop industry and getting us up to a level
• 1:00:26
  that was needed and long overdue. I mean, the
• 1:00:28
  facilities, even just 10 years ago, walking through
• 1:00:31
  these facilities in the industry, it was just,
• 1:00:34
  you know, food safety issues, worker safety issues.
• 1:00:38
  And unfortunately, it was years of just low prices
• 1:00:41
  that led us to there with a few little bumps
• 1:00:44
  along the way, but never enough to sustain. So
• 1:00:48
  this craft market has been such a gift in that
• 1:00:51
  regard, and then some of the proprietaries I
• 1:00:53
  think have helped. I don't think they're the
• 1:00:55
  answer. I think public and proprietary will continue
• 1:00:59
  to be important. I don't think either one is
• 1:01:03
  bad or good. I think we have to be careful about
• 1:01:05
  value judgments, and I do think sometimes those
• 1:01:07
  value judgments emerge in this conversation.
• 1:01:10
  I think each brings different opportunities and
• 1:01:14
  different risks to the table. And I think a blended
• 1:01:16
  portfolio of both, whether you're a brewer or
• 1:01:19
  a grower, is probably best and probably the future.
• 1:01:22
  I do think, however, because I know this is all
• 1:01:25
  about candor, I think that highly controlled
• 1:01:28
  large chunks of market share under proprietary
• 1:01:31
  brands is an existential risk for independent
• 1:01:35
  hop growers. And I do think in the long run,
• 1:01:38
  even maybe the short run with the current market
• 1:01:41
  dynamics. That creates a more cartelized hop
• 1:01:45
  industry that, frankly, probably isn't as robust
• 1:01:51
  in terms of its ability to deliver a diversified
• 1:01:55
  set of value to brewers. No, that's a very good
• 1:01:58
  way of saying it, yeah. And that's not to put
• 1:02:02
  anyone on the spot. It's all business. I get
• 1:02:04
  it. I get it. We're here to... be successful.
• 1:02:08
  We certainly want our businesses to be profitable.
• 1:02:11
  Of course, when you see opportunities, you're
• 1:02:13
  going to jump on them. So it's not even like
• 1:02:15
  a, it's not meant to be a personal indictment
• 1:02:17
  on these, the owners of these varieties or even
• 1:02:19
  the approach. Like, I think it's a natural economic
• 1:02:21
  phenomena, but I think it's also to be important
• 1:02:24
  to be aware of that phenomenon. And also I think
• 1:02:28
  some of us have an opportunity, some of the leaders
• 1:02:30
  like Roy's and Crosby's and others in the industry
• 1:02:33
  to continue to create. opportunities outside
• 1:02:37
  of maybe some of the status quo and continue
• 1:02:40
  to create optionality for customers, maybe also
• 1:02:45
  for other independent growers. I mean, I think
• 1:02:48
  the future is really bright in that regard because
• 1:02:50
  I think there's a strong desire for that. Yeah,
• 1:02:53
  and if I move beyond the emotions of it all and
• 1:02:58
  maybe the initial thought of have and have not,
• 1:03:02
  I think that's a good point. It's really about...
• 1:03:06
  offering up that diverse set of value to the
• 1:03:10
  brewer, to the customer. And then as independent
• 1:03:14
  hop growers, how can we be strong or stronger
• 1:03:18
  together? You know, with great power comes great
• 1:03:23
  responsibility. When we're talking about proprietors,
• 1:03:27
  they are wonderful things and there's nothing
• 1:03:30
  inherently wrong with them. But to the point
• 1:03:34
  about the highly controlled, it's really important
• 1:03:37
  to, if you're going to do that, make sure you're
• 1:03:40
  being responsible. And that's challenging in
• 1:03:43
  this market. And it's tough. These are small
• 1:03:45
  communities. I think you guys alluded to it maybe
• 1:03:48
  an episode or two ago. But there's a lot of histories
• 1:03:50
  between these families. And sometimes that stuff
• 1:03:54
  ends up casting a shadow on the future when it
• 1:03:56
  shouldn't. And it's hard when you're in such
• 1:04:00
  a small industry with that stuff. that creates
• 1:04:04
  some complexity that in a larger industry people
• 1:04:08
  would probably say you know why the heck is it
• 1:04:10
  that way or why the heck doesn't so -and -so
• 1:04:12
  you know just stop doing that and you know these
• 1:04:16
  are hard things because there's often deep existing
• 1:04:19
  old relationships or in some cases resentments
• 1:04:22
  it's it's the reality of the community and there
• 1:04:25
  is strong community in the hop industry but I
• 1:04:28
  don't know if brewers fully always understand
• 1:04:30
  but like I'll just say it like this industry
• 1:04:32
  is really competitive, really competitive, like
• 1:04:36
  brutal. Like I look at other businesses and I'm
• 1:04:39
  like, I know other businesses aren't easy, but
• 1:04:41
  sometimes I'm like, I don't know. It looks kind
• 1:04:43
  of easy compared to what we're doing. You know,
• 1:04:47
  I don't know if you guys ever think that, but
• 1:04:49
  I'm just like, and I'm not trying to sound like
• 1:04:51
  I'm a high horse. Like, you know, we haven't
• 1:04:53
  figured out cause we don't, but sometimes I'm
• 1:04:55
  like, man, we're working really hard. for this
• 1:04:58
  because we love it. But if we were just trying
• 1:05:00
  to optimize for financial gain, I wonder if we
• 1:05:03
  would do something else. Yeah, somebody could
• 1:05:07
  have done really well about five years ago to
• 1:05:09
  sell their ranch fully loaded if you really wanted
• 1:05:11
  to. Me and my dad and I were talking about that.
• 1:05:13
  Like that would have been, yeah, if you're just
• 1:05:15
  optimizing for financials, yeah, we could have
• 1:05:18
  packaged up Crosby and marketed that for a nice
• 1:05:21
  number probably five years ago. You know, candidly,
• 1:05:23
  of course, you're always, okay, what would that
• 1:05:25
  look like? We had some people approach us, but
• 1:05:29
  it wasn't about that. It still isn't about that.
• 1:05:31
  I mean, it's not. We're here because we love
• 1:05:33
  what we do. We want this to be successful for
• 1:05:36
  generations to come. We still believe in the
• 1:05:38
  hop industry, even though it's not perfect. We
• 1:05:41
  still believe in beer, even though it has some
• 1:05:44
  short -term challenges. We still believe in community
• 1:05:47
  and people coming together to enjoy craft beer
• 1:05:49
  and food and beverage. I don't know. This is
• 1:05:52
  me getting on my philosophical ramp. You can't
• 1:05:57
  help but still believe in that stuff, even though
• 1:05:59
  there is a lot of short -term turbulence. No,
• 1:06:02
  that's always been one of my philosophical beliefs
• 1:06:05
  is that community is really fueling a lot of
• 1:06:09
  this growth, a lot of this industry. I've always
• 1:06:13
  just kind of like had this thought that you look
• 1:06:15
  at these breweries and is it about the beer?
• 1:06:20
  Is it about the venue? Is it about the people
• 1:06:22
  that come there and are searching for? this sense
• 1:06:26
  of community, I think to some degree, a lot of
• 1:06:30
  it is about gathering together as a community.
• 1:06:33
  And the beer, as long as the beer is good, in
• 1:06:37
  some cases that works. In other cases, I mean,
• 1:06:40
  obviously there's different types of need there.
• 1:06:43
  You need to have like a real showstopper brand
• 1:06:46
  or recipe. And in some cases it's like, well,
• 1:06:49
  what's it really about? I think when I really
• 1:06:53
  zoom out and I think about Obviously, we have
• 1:06:56
  our why as it relates to our family legacy, our
• 1:06:59
  company, our employees, taking care of our customers.
• 1:07:02
  But if I zoom out to the next level up and it's
• 1:07:04
  like, how can we really make a little dent in
• 1:07:07
  the world? I think about that community piece.
• 1:07:10
  And we know that right now people are starved
• 1:07:13
  for community more than probably ever, according
• 1:07:16
  to the data. And that's a real thing. And I can't
• 1:07:21
  help but just... feel for that and you know I
• 1:07:25
  know that we probably all feel that as well in
• 1:07:27
  our individual lives like the way humans interact
• 1:07:29
  is just different now and in some cases it's
• 1:07:32
  more isolating and anything we can do to get
• 1:07:34
  people out and gathering and if it happens to
• 1:07:38
  be with a beer that's that's great too and I
• 1:07:41
  tell our team I'm like if we can even just make
• 1:07:43
  a one percent improvement in a brewer's beer
• 1:07:47
  somehow and that consumer is just even one percent
• 1:07:50
  more delighted We all know that hanging out and
• 1:07:54
  communing over whether it's a great meal or a
• 1:07:56
  great beverage, flavor matters, quality matters,
• 1:07:59
  right? Like no one wants to hang out and have
• 1:08:01
  crappy food, I mean, unless you're drunk or something.
• 1:08:04
  But, you know, like generally, like you want
• 1:08:07
  to have a quality experience. But then you accomplished
• 1:08:09
  what you're setting out for in the first place,
• 1:08:11
  right? Touche. Drunk and having crappy food with
• 1:08:14
  your friends. There you go. But I just feel like,
• 1:08:16
  yeah, in the hop industry, like we're really.
• 1:08:18
  It's a real honor and privilege and also responsibility
• 1:08:21
  to be stewards of craft beer flavor and aroma
• 1:08:23
  and anything we can do to further that through
• 1:08:27
  innovation or farming practices or cultural practices
• 1:08:31
  to make the beer even just a little bit better.
• 1:08:33
  And that's one thing we talk about increasingly,
• 1:08:35
  like we kind of have this slogan about, you know,
• 1:08:37
  making the best beers better because things can
• 1:08:40
  always be a little bit better. And what can we
• 1:08:42
  be doing on the farming side or the kiln or the
• 1:08:45
  harvest timing or the pelletization? or the cgx
• 1:08:48
  line or maybe it's even just delivering logistics
• 1:08:51
  but i try to tie it because i think it's important
• 1:08:53
  for us to all have a sense of the bigger picture
• 1:08:56
  and sometimes it's hard but i've kind of come
• 1:08:58
  back to just community and challenging our team
• 1:09:01
  on that is like at the end of the day like we
• 1:09:03
  can help maybe make someone's life a little better
• 1:09:06
  by making a better experience in that community
• 1:09:10
  piece and having a better more flavorful craft
• 1:09:13
  beer so speaking of doing better how can we do
• 1:09:18
  partnerships and supply chain better. That was
• 1:09:22
  so smooth. Just really something. I mean, I got
• 1:09:28
  ideas. It all feeds in. Community. That's what
• 1:09:34
  I was just thinking. Doing life with others.
• 1:09:37
  I think you mentioned personal fulfillment, entrepreneurship,
• 1:09:42
  challenges in the supply chain. Well, how do
• 1:09:47
  you make your customer's life better, not just
• 1:09:49
  with quality products and all the things that
• 1:09:52
  were listed, but how can you make it easier for
• 1:09:56
  them? Yep. I mean, from our perspective at Roy
• 1:10:01
  Farms, our idea was always to start rebuilding
• 1:10:05
  and building more relationships with brewers
• 1:10:09
  directly. And that was the route that we were
• 1:10:11
  going down. And it still is, but slight variation
• 1:10:15
  on that. How can we have agency over our sales
• 1:10:21
  and our business by either going direct through
• 1:10:25
  the entire supply chain or getting direct through
• 1:10:29
  partnerships, which led us to talking with Crosby.
• 1:10:35
  Yeah. You know what's wild about that is that
• 1:10:39
  we, I think we started talking back before COVID.
• 1:10:42
  And you were going to come to Oregon and we were
• 1:10:45
  going to hang out and just. You brought that
• 1:10:46
  up. I really dropped the ball on that. Yeah.
• 1:10:48
  Well, it wasn't your fault. It was like a global
• 1:10:50
  pandemic. Everything closed. It was really on
• 1:10:53
  the eve of COVID and then things got weird and
• 1:10:56
  we never followed up on it. And here we are five
• 1:10:59
  years later. Man. Yeah. Following up indeed.
• 1:11:03
  Well, I apologize for not following up and I'm
• 1:11:07
  grateful that we're following up and. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:11:12
  where i think our collective minds have have
• 1:11:15
  gone in the past and because i mean roy farms
• 1:11:19
  crosby blake mike drew some combination of all
• 1:11:22
  of those have probably talked over the years
• 1:11:25
  and maybe less drew in the past but definitely
• 1:11:28
  now about how we can do this better and how can
• 1:11:31
  we add some some strength and some offer more
• 1:11:36
  collaboration in the independent space Row the
• 1:11:39
  boat together. Row the boat together. Which I
• 1:11:43
  think is a good tee -in to what we're doing moving
• 1:11:45
  forward with Crosby and Roy. It's all you, Drew.
• 1:11:49
  Yeah, so we've been talking about more collaboration
• 1:11:54
  and community enhancing the customer experience
• 1:12:00
  in the independent grower space. We decided to
• 1:12:04
  look at how we could become more efficient. and
• 1:12:09
  create better opportunities for our customers
• 1:12:11
  and for ourselves. And so we looked at everything
• 1:12:13
  from breeding to contracting options to different
• 1:12:20
  varieties we offer, product lines, all of that
• 1:12:24
  sort of stuff, and kind of laid it out on the
• 1:12:25
  table and said, how can we become more efficient
• 1:12:29
  and leverage the commonalities between Roy Farms
• 1:12:34
  and Crosby Hops? And landed on some pretty great
• 1:12:40
  ideas that we've decided to implement. Simple
• 1:12:44
  things like breeding, where breeding programs
• 1:12:47
  are expensive and we have two small breeding
• 1:12:51
  programs. We can provide a lot more options to
• 1:12:54
  the market if we team up together and collaborate
• 1:13:00
  on testing in different states in Oregon and
• 1:13:04
  Washington. And have a more unified go -to -market
• 1:13:09
  strategy. Yeah, absolutely. Testing everything
• 1:13:12
  that we can do with brewers and how we can collaborate.
• 1:13:15
  The other thing, and most of the customers that
• 1:13:18
  Roy Farms work with have heard this by now, by
• 1:13:22
  the time this podcast comes out, but we are taking
• 1:13:26
  the majority of our customers from Roy Farms
• 1:13:30
  and we are merging them together with Crosby's
• 1:13:32
  sales desk under the Crosby. And the reason that
• 1:13:39
  we decided to do that, one of the major reasons
• 1:13:43
  is because it was really inefficient for us to
• 1:13:45
  continue growing our sales team. That's just
• 1:13:47
  more expense in the system for brewers and that's
• 1:13:50
  not an efficient way. And we saw that we were
• 1:13:52
  really complimentary in terms of where our coverage
• 1:13:56
  was across the country and around the world.
• 1:14:00
  Yeah, it was kind of crazy when we got done looking
• 1:14:03
  at the... The two sales lists, we overlapped
• 1:14:08
  in only a couple areas. Very, very little. Like,
• 1:14:12
  I mean, it was like 10 customers maybe across
• 1:14:16
  like close to 2000. I don't know. Yep. Yeah.
• 1:14:21
  Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. So we are putting together
• 1:14:26
  those sales desks that will be under Crosby hops.
• 1:14:30
  The major benefits that. that we see, first of
• 1:14:33
  all, you're still going to be any customers that
• 1:14:37
  have Roy Farms contracts will still have, you
• 1:14:41
  know, Roy Farms hops that are coming to them.
• 1:14:44
  Same with Crosby. Although they will all have
• 1:14:47
  the option of, you know, if selection is in their
• 1:14:51
  contract, then they'll be able to have more options
• 1:14:54
  on selection. Which is something we've heard
• 1:14:57
  over the years is more selection would be better.
• 1:15:02
  Yes, absolutely. They're going to have access
• 1:15:04
  to more contracting models. So we're taking all
• 1:15:08
  of the different contracting options that Roy's
• 1:15:11
  offer now and Crosby's offer and putting those
• 1:15:15
  together so they all exist in some form. So Brewer
• 1:15:19
  has more choice. There will be more varietal
• 1:15:23
  options for the Crosby customers as we release.
• 1:15:29
  and Roy customers as we release more varieties
• 1:15:31
  and some existing ones that we've just started
• 1:15:34
  releasing which I know we've talked about Adina
• 1:15:36
  and things like that but generally speaking everything
• 1:15:41
  will be the same and everything will be different
• 1:15:44
  with more opportunities yeah so can you talk
• 1:15:50
  a little bit about how we made the decision around
• 1:15:56
  which brewery relationships we keep and which
• 1:15:59
  ones Crosby's going to work with us on. Yeah,
• 1:16:05
  largely, and we are going to work together on
• 1:16:09
  everything moving forward. Yeah, and that's why
• 1:16:12
  I said work with us on, because we are working
• 1:16:15
  together. This is not a handoff. This is a partnership
• 1:16:19
  around. Yes. Yeah, I mean, largely, we're...
• 1:16:24
  a large commercial farm and, and where our sweet
• 1:16:28
  spot historically has been is with large breweries
• 1:16:31
  that are looking for significant volume at these
• 1:16:36
  are breweries that are taking semi truckloads
• 1:16:39
  of, of hops at a time. And that's really kind
• 1:16:43
  of where our sweet spot is. We're not set up.
• 1:16:44
  We don't have the portal. We don't have everything
• 1:16:47
  that Crosby offers. We have a much smaller sales
• 1:16:51
  team. And I'll just say that I'm, Really excited
• 1:16:55
  and grateful for the opportunity to partner up
• 1:16:58
  with Crosby. I mean, you mentioned it earlier
• 1:17:01
  in the podcast, Blake, about, I don't know who
• 1:17:04
  you were referring to, but shared values. And
• 1:17:06
  I really do feel like Roy Farms and Crosby Hops
• 1:17:09
  have a lot of shared values. We think very similarly.
• 1:17:12
  I think we have different and complementary ideas
• 1:17:18
  about how to solve some of these problems that
• 1:17:21
  we're seeing in the supply chain. And it's been
• 1:17:25
  fun. All the conversations we've had so far have
• 1:17:27
  been really fun. Oh, yes. And I anticipate those
• 1:17:31
  will continue. So I think one question, well,
• 1:17:34
  I'd like to hear what you have to say first.
• 1:17:37
  Well, super stoked. And when you said fun, it
• 1:17:40
  just reminded me of what I said earlier is, of
• 1:17:42
  course, financials and business models are important.
• 1:17:45
  But every day I wake up, it's really about fun.
• 1:17:49
  And I want to have fun at work. I think life's
• 1:17:51
  too short for work not to be fun. it's and that's
• 1:17:54
  really one of my core my personal core values
• 1:17:57
  and so i agree like this collaboration with roy
• 1:18:01
  farms has been a blast so far and i know the
• 1:18:05
  best is still yet to come but it checks the fun
• 1:18:09
  box many times over and i know financially the
• 1:18:12
  model you know is sound as well and it's going
• 1:18:14
  to create value for the organizations for customers
• 1:18:17
  for other independent growers i mean all the
• 1:18:21
  things drew said was pulling some resources in
• 1:18:24
  terms of new products and breeding and, you know,
• 1:18:28
  on the Crosby side, some of the technology investments
• 1:18:30
  we have with our customer portal and some of
• 1:18:34
  our distribution points. CGX. Yeah, CGX. That
• 1:18:38
  opens up a whole new world for Roy's as well
• 1:18:41
  and some of the advanced products. So, I mean,
• 1:18:44
  there's a long list of benefits. Just streamlining
• 1:18:47
  also for customers is like instead of having
• 1:18:50
  a contract with Roy. and crosby have a contract
• 1:18:54
  one paper one order one portal login just there's
• 1:18:59
  lots of things that are going to create efficiencies
• 1:19:01
  for the customer base and and by no means is
• 1:19:06
  this roy taking a step back it's really everyone
• 1:19:10
  in their lanes in their respective lanes where
• 1:19:13
  they're strongest and supporting each other rather
• 1:19:15
  than continuing to veer all over the highway
• 1:19:17
  cutting each other off and bumping into each
• 1:19:19
  other and Let's take the best of both organizations
• 1:19:22
  and create as much value as possible to share
• 1:19:25
  with the world. Yeah, and still some details
• 1:19:27
  to work out there. To your point, you know, all
• 1:19:30
  right, what is Roy Farms' lane? You know, we've
• 1:19:33
  always managed bigger customers, fewer bigger
• 1:19:38
  customers better. And I think that we can stay
• 1:19:40
  a lot more focused. And that's just kind of what
• 1:19:45
  we've done over the years. type of customer and
• 1:19:49
  the number of customers have increased over the
• 1:19:52
  last few years, I think we've really struggled
• 1:19:54
  with how to meet that market. And you guys have
• 1:20:00
  put a lot of effort into that and done a really
• 1:20:02
  great job. So there's a natural fit there. And
• 1:20:05
  to your point about personal values, I think
• 1:20:08
  two of mine I've really learned about over the
• 1:20:11
  last few years is I have to be creative. And
• 1:20:16
  I have to see progress. And I think we talked
• 1:20:20
  about it in either episode one or two or probably
• 1:20:22
  both. And I'm sure I'll talk about it more, but
• 1:20:25
  we've just been ping ponged around so much over
• 1:20:28
  the last five to 10 years, because I just don't
• 1:20:31
  think we've fully committed and been worried
• 1:20:34
  about making somebody mad. And I don't know,
• 1:20:38
  or, you know, there's a bright, shiny ball over
• 1:20:40
  here. We need to be in this proprietary variety
• 1:20:42
  and, and there's truth in all of that. But it
• 1:20:45
  feels very good and grounding to be talking about
• 1:20:50
  doing what we're doing. Oh, yeah. So, I mean,
• 1:20:57
  I think one question I would have if I was a
• 1:21:00
  brewer listening to this, two questions I would
• 1:21:03
  have. How does that impact my current contract?
• 1:21:06
  And what type of value? You're telling me there's
• 1:21:10
  going to be value, but what type of value am
• 1:21:12
  I going to see? There are all types of different
• 1:21:16
  layers of value. Tell me more. Yeah, so a few
• 1:21:22
  just real brief things, and we're probably going
• 1:21:26
  to get kicked by Christine for botching up how
• 1:21:29
  to deliver this one to the market. She'll fix
• 1:21:33
  it. As far as what your contracts look like now,
• 1:21:35
  they'll be the same in terms of... terms and
• 1:21:41
  all of that sort of stuff they'll be enhanced
• 1:21:43
  in the form of you know having a broader selection
• 1:21:47
  opportunity you will have more contracting options
• 1:21:52
  if you're a crosby customer you'll have more
• 1:21:55
  contracting options than you had before and if
• 1:21:57
  you're a roy customer the same is true and so
• 1:22:01
  we're kind of trying to take the best of both
• 1:22:04
  worlds and put them together in fact we are You
• 1:22:08
  can do selection in Oregon. And I imagine you
• 1:22:12
  can do selection in Yakima for no matter where
• 1:22:16
  you're doing it now. Yep. Absolutely. And I think
• 1:22:20
  all of that is critical. And when I think about
• 1:22:24
  downstream too, it's just the simplicity of streamlining
• 1:22:27
  paperwork. Instead of having two contracts, you
• 1:22:30
  have one contract to manage. I know that sounds
• 1:22:33
  simple, but that stuff does create inertia over
• 1:22:35
  time when you're a small brewery trying to manage
• 1:22:37
  multiple agreements or different terms and conditions
• 1:22:39
  or different payment deadlines. For our customers
• 1:22:43
  on the East Coast, we have a really strong distribution
• 1:22:46
  center out in the Ohio region, Columbus, Ohio
• 1:22:49
  specifically, that now all the Roy customers
• 1:22:52
  that are now going to be evolving over to and
• 1:22:55
  transferring over to Crosby will have full access
• 1:22:57
  to. So I think just some of that natural, you
• 1:23:01
  know, shipping timelines, shipping costs, like
• 1:23:03
  there's some synergies there. There's synergies
• 1:23:06
  with streamlining admin. There's synergies with
• 1:23:09
  the Crosby portal and automated customer experience
• 1:23:12
  for the customers that increasingly more and
• 1:23:14
  more want that. And we're continuing to invest
• 1:23:17
  heavily in that area. In fact, we have a team
• 1:23:18
  of three people specifically that work on that
• 1:23:21
  stuff all day. So we intend to be best in class
• 1:23:24
  as it relates to technology. And so a lot of
• 1:23:27
  that stuff is going to continue to define those
• 1:23:30
  hop companies of the future. And, you know, there's
• 1:23:33
  no reason for us to continue to build these things
• 1:23:36
  separately when there's certain areas that you
• 1:23:40
  guys are doing already well in this or we're
• 1:23:41
  doing well in that. Let's leverage those strengths
• 1:23:44
  together and create an even more compelling value
• 1:23:46
  proposition. Yeah, who was it we heard a few
• 1:23:50
  months ago? I feel like we might have been together
• 1:23:52
  when we heard this, but that somebody asked.
• 1:23:55
  why there's not more consolidation going on in
• 1:23:58
  the hop industry right now. We heard that come
• 1:24:00
  through a merchant. Oh, yeah. And the comment
• 1:24:04
  was made by a brewer. And it was something to
• 1:24:07
  the effect of, well, there must still be too
• 1:24:10
  much margin in the system if we haven't seen
• 1:24:13
  more consolidation. Yes. Well, and that's, I
• 1:24:17
  mean, when you think about this and everything,
• 1:24:20
  Blake, you just said about distribution centers
• 1:24:22
  and... portals and, you know, if we were going
• 1:24:27
  to add more sales people, all of those things
• 1:24:31
  are just, it's just more cost for a brewery.
• 1:24:35
  I mean, the same hops, whether our hops are going
• 1:24:36
  through Crosby or Roy, it was the same production
• 1:24:39
  cost. And so there's either added layers of administrative
• 1:24:43
  and those sort of costs or, and obviously it's
• 1:24:48
  not all about costs, but we can become far more
• 1:24:51
  efficient by doing what we're doing. It's not
• 1:24:53
  all about costs. And we've said that it's about
• 1:24:57
  life goals and personal values and... Making
• 1:25:02
  hop farming fun again. Making hop farming fun
• 1:25:04
  again. We need some t -shirts on that one. Making
• 1:25:08
  the hop industry fun again. But efficiency and
• 1:25:11
  the cost of our cogs and the end cost to the
• 1:25:15
  consumer are all real problems that we all have
• 1:25:19
  to solve. And how do we... keep margin in the
• 1:25:24
  system for us so that we can all be sustainable
• 1:25:26
  moving forward so you know and we're staring
• 1:25:29
  down the barrel of all right do we need to well
• 1:25:32
  not do we need to we need to multiply our sales
• 1:25:37
  team we need to invest in these areas that we
• 1:25:39
  haven't invested in whether that's cgx or a portal
• 1:25:42
  or all those things human capital human capital
• 1:25:47
  yeah you know and then there's There's only so
• 1:25:50
  much capital. There's only so much mental capacity
• 1:25:53
  that you have on any given day, week, month,
• 1:25:56
  year. And how do you, how do you want to spend
• 1:25:58
  your time? You know? Yeah. Like not everyone
• 1:26:00
  wants to do that stuff. Yeah. You know? And I
• 1:26:03
  think conversely, like some of the stuff you
• 1:26:06
  guys are way ahead of us on like breeding and
• 1:26:08
  genetics, for example. And we started down that
• 1:26:10
  road, thankfully, and we're going to catch up,
• 1:26:13
  but having, you know, your experience and your
• 1:26:16
  guidance on that and being able to, to leverage
• 1:26:20
  both programs i think that's for me one of the
• 1:26:23
  big things for crosby that's super enticing and
• 1:26:26
  yeah and then we know this market's really competitive
• 1:26:29
  and we're getting challenged a lot on price right
• 1:26:31
  there's a lot of down pressure on pricing that's
• 1:26:33
  no secret and to be able to have you know a 3500
• 1:26:37
  acre farm in roy farms that's in our corner and
• 1:26:41
  you know we've launched that essentials program
• 1:26:43
  which we can talk more about another day but
• 1:26:46
  you know essentially a program to allow us to
• 1:26:49
  be super competitive on larger blocks of hops
• 1:26:51
  for customers that require that and being able
• 1:26:55
  to utilize your guys' scale to support that.
• 1:27:00
  Not that we're a tiny hop farm, but a lot of
• 1:27:03
  what we grow is already going through other channels.
• 1:27:06
  And so when we go out and we want to win net
• 1:27:09
  new business, we need really competitive suppliers.
• 1:27:12
  And I know you guys fit the bill there as well.
• 1:27:15
  So all that to say that... As much as this is
• 1:27:19
  good for our organizations, the reason I'm most
• 1:27:21
  confident is it has to be good for the customer.
• 1:27:23
  If it's not good for the customer, then we're
• 1:27:24
  just wasting our time because it's not going
• 1:27:25
  to work. But for all those reasons and others
• 1:27:28
  that will continue to emerge as we go on, I know
• 1:27:31
  this is going to enhance the customer experience.
• 1:27:33
  It's going to make the value proposition even
• 1:27:35
  more compelling. And that's why I'm so excited
• 1:27:37
  about it. And it's fun. And it's fun. Kind of
• 1:27:42
  continuing on that thought process. You know,
• 1:27:45
  I think we talk a lot about... kind of going
• 1:27:47
  back to a way of doing business that we did well.
• 1:27:52
  And we've said that that's more direct. But as
• 1:27:57
  I kind of opened the hood on that, we used to
• 1:28:01
  go direct and we used to write these big contracts
• 1:28:05
  and then it would be about execution. And that
• 1:28:09
  flip would happen literally overnight. We'd go
• 1:28:12
  and we'd hammer out the details on this big contract,
• 1:28:15
  and then we would just go farm. And there would
• 1:28:17
  be updates to the contract and contract renegotiations
• 1:28:22
  and things like that. But it wasn't kind of this
• 1:28:26
  everyday sales effort that we had. And I think
• 1:28:31
  I'm excited for all the things we just said,
• 1:28:35
  and I'm excited just to go back to... Giving
• 1:28:39
  more focus to the farming side of things. Yeah,
• 1:28:44
  it's really exciting. And we're really grateful
• 1:28:46
  to have you guys in our lives and working with
• 1:28:50
  us. I think it's going to be rad. It will be
• 1:28:54
  rad. It's one of the things I'm most excited
• 1:28:56
  about right now. What else are you excited about
• 1:28:58
  right now? Water. That's just normal. Yeah, it's
• 1:29:04
  normal. I'm always excited about that. What are
• 1:29:06
  you excited about right now? Having my first
• 1:29:09
  child. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You just blasted
• 1:29:15
  that out. Yeah. I think most people know. Yeah.
• 1:29:18
  The people that know me know, but for those that
• 1:29:20
  don't know me, my partner and I are expecting
• 1:29:23
  in July, right before harvest. Congratulations.
• 1:29:27
  So we have a little boy coming our way. That
• 1:29:30
  is amazing. Which, you know, he's obviously not
• 1:29:32
  here in the flesh yet, but it already has me
• 1:29:34
  thinking differently back to some of those earlier
• 1:29:36
  comments. the things that matter most. And I
• 1:29:39
  want to see this business. And, you know, who
• 1:29:41
  knows? I don't want to start. It's funny, right?
• 1:29:44
  In farming, we're already starting to like put
• 1:29:46
  his destiny out like for him, which is, oh, of
• 1:29:49
  course he's going to be a hop farmer. If he wants
• 1:29:51
  to go do something else, totally fine. But regardless,
• 1:29:54
  we have a family business, a steward, whether
• 1:29:56
  he farms or not. And I really want this business
• 1:29:58
  to be viable and sustainable and long -term,
• 1:30:04
  you know, win -wins. And I think that's where,
• 1:30:08
  partnership can come into play. And, you know,
• 1:30:10
  I know what we're doing, I guess just for clarity
• 1:30:12
  isn't, you know, we're not going into business
• 1:30:14
  together. We're not merging our companies or
• 1:30:16
  anything. So for anyone out there wondering,
• 1:30:18
  that's not what we're talking about, but in this
• 1:30:20
  case, you know, pulling some resources and collaborating
• 1:30:23
  to create more synergies for the market and customer
• 1:30:27
  base, which is going to strengthen our organizations
• 1:30:29
  and ensure, you know, what we're trying to do
• 1:30:32
  there. Why I guess for me personally is continue
• 1:30:35
  to ensure that our business. is successful beyond
• 1:30:38
  me and, you know, going back to things that are
• 1:30:42
  bigger than ourselves. Yeah. And like I said,
• 1:30:44
  that's a big motivator for me. And now as an
• 1:30:47
  expecting father, I'm thinking about that even
• 1:30:49
  more than ever. And I know Mike and Drew, you
• 1:30:52
  both can attest to that and you're way ahead
• 1:30:55
  of me on that one, but I'm excited. I'm also
• 1:30:58
  a little scared, but I'm excited. And I think
• 1:31:01
  that's my number one exciting thing right now.
• 1:31:03
  And on the business side. I'm super stoked about
• 1:31:06
  this relationship. And I truly do think we're
• 1:31:10
  just getting started. And I've actually, this
• 1:31:14
  sounds a little strange, but I've kind of enjoyed
• 1:31:17
  this downturn a little bit. Me too. And that
• 1:31:20
  sounds like, you know, was it masochistic or
• 1:31:23
  whatever? Like, you know, people that like pain.
• 1:31:26
  I think we all do. Maybe farmers. Yeah, farmers
• 1:31:29
  are a bit that way. gosh these there's there's
• 1:31:33
  awesome things about the run we had in the 10
• 1:31:34
  -year run or whatever it was was amazing and
• 1:31:36
  i wouldn't trade it for the world but this downturn
• 1:31:39
  has been just as amazing for different reasons
• 1:31:40
  and uh these conversations it's facilitated and
• 1:31:45
  collaboration and strategy and kind of repositioning
• 1:31:48
  for the next chapter of the hop industry and
• 1:31:51
  for the future generations i actually think we're
• 1:31:53
  going to look back on this period of you know,
• 1:31:55
  whatever, however many years this downturn ends
• 1:31:57
  up being. But I think we're going to look back
• 1:31:59
  on this as a very special time and not so much
• 1:32:02
  a time of pain, but maybe a time of pruning and
• 1:32:05
  regrowth and come through it even stronger. And
• 1:32:09
  I really do believe that in my heart. I do too.
• 1:32:11
  And that's something that, you know, I think
• 1:32:14
  both of you know is that I've had this vision
• 1:32:16
  of combining the best pieces of the hop industry.
• 1:32:21
  cleaving off the the pieces that aren't serving
• 1:32:24
  the industry well and this sounds a little cliche
• 1:32:27
  but it's kind of like a dream come true it's
• 1:32:30
  like we're getting some of the best pieces together
• 1:32:34
  and and just to kind of expand on that idea of
• 1:32:39
  the future generation or our children i'm left
• 1:32:44
  with nothing but good thoughts if i explore those
• 1:32:48
  areas like okay well what if this thing blossoms
• 1:32:52
  into something like bigger than, than what we're
• 1:32:56
  thinking right now? And, and how would I feel
• 1:32:59
  positioning the farm that way? If, you know,
• 1:33:03
  Noah or Camden come back into the business, which
• 1:33:07
  are my two children, I'm like, God, that'd be
• 1:33:10
  awesome. You know what I mean? If I, if I explore
• 1:33:13
  that thought process. So obviously that's getting
• 1:33:17
  very far down the road, but those are, Those
• 1:33:21
  are some of the things that I do. Yeah, it feels
• 1:33:23
  good now, and it feels good exploring the what
• 1:33:26
  if. What else? What did we miss? I don't know.
• 1:33:29
  That was pretty good. It was like right at noon,
• 1:33:32
  an hour and 40 minutes, and I think we covered
• 1:33:34
  the topics. Nice. Yeah. Blake, appreciate you
• 1:33:38
  coming on. Thanks for having me, guys. It is
• 1:33:40
  a real honor to be the first guest, and I hope
• 1:33:42
  to come back someday again, and we can provide
• 1:33:45
  everyone updates on how things are going. Oh,
• 1:33:47
  yeah, for sure. You'll be a regular guest. Yeah,
• 1:33:50
  you'll be a regular guest. Really grateful for
• 1:33:53
  all the conversations we've had so far. This
• 1:33:56
  one's been specifically enjoyable and look forward
• 1:34:00
  to more. Absolutely. No dirt, no flowers. Episode
• 1:34:04
  three, break. Thank you for listening to the
• 1:34:11
  show. I just wanted to jump in here at the end
• 1:34:13
  and say how excited we are at Roy Farms for our
• 1:34:16
  new partnership with Crosby Hops. Now, some of
• 1:34:19
  you may have questions, and if so, please reach
• 1:34:21
  out to your Roy Farms and or Crosby representatives
• 1:34:24
  to ask any questions you may have. For those
• 1:34:26
  of you attending CBC next week, we will be in
• 1:34:28
  Indianapolis. You can come by the Crosby booth
• 1:34:31
  or lounge. We'll be there to answer any questions
• 1:34:33
  you may have over a beer. Thank you very much,
• 1:34:35
  and hope to talk to you soon.