Latest / Skin Anarchy / Greg and Joanne Starkman, Co-Founders of Innersense Organic Beauty

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Greg and Joanne Starkman, Co-Founders of Innersense Organic Beauty · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, this is Ecta.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to pop in and say that we are so grateful for all of you guys out there that are listening in and giving us feedback.
• 0:10
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• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Also wanted to just pop in and remind everybody we're still expect uh accepting sponsorships from all brands, small brands, big brands, everybody.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're interested in sponsoring us, shoot us an email, skincareanarchy at gmail.com.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks and enjoy this episode coming up.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Ecta, and today I have with me one of my favorite character lines.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's been you know a few weeks, but I'm already in love.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to introduce you guys to the co-founders of InnerSense Organic Beauty, um, Greg and Joanne Starkman.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: So welcome to the show, Greg and Joanne.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited you guys have the time to come onto our little podcast.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's my honor.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to get started.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Joanne, maybe you can start us off with telling us a little bit about um your background and what let you led you guys to um create a hair care line.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, Greg and I, most people don't know, we're both hairstylists.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we've uh both worked behind the chair.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was a hairstylist for over 25 years and um love doing hair, love all things beauty.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: That was just kind of in my DNA.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of destined for me.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: I um only went to a couple years of college and then very quickly um realized that I was like perming and cutting everybody's hair.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it was I I figured I might as well go to beauty school, and that's kind of how my career started.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um as far as Greg and myself, like I like to talk about inner sense as a love story because Greg and I, and he can talk about his background, but we met and married, um, we met and fell in love and then married in the beauty industry, actually.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, I love that.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, so we both have a passion for the industry.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I would say, you know, we're just both our fiber is um in hairdressing.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And and it was really when um our daughter Morgan was 22 months old, yeah, and she was uh diagnosed with a very rare genetic disability called Williams syndrome.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um and obviously, you know, it was life-changing for us, kind of turned our world upside down.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so really what I did was I turned to health and I just started purchasing more organic foods to bring in the house.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I started looking at my cleaning supplies.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I really wanted to control the things that I could control because I felt probably very out of control with my daughter's diagnosis.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started actually turning over the very products, turning the bottles over of the very products that I was using on my daughter's hair, on my hair, on my client's hair, and I became an avid label reader.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was astonished to find out that there were silicones, resins, plastics, um, synthetic fragrances and things that I just had couldn't even um, you know, comprehend that were in the very products that I was using.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so that really uh started Greg and I off in conversation because um he, you know, being also in the beauty industry and he was an executive by that time working for big beauty brands.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, we just really started having conversation about ingredients and the things that we found.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it was not only the way the ingredients, but it's actually how they are synthesized and processed.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so that kind of sent Greg off in this mission for research and development.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And Greg is really the ingredient guru behind the brand.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I feel like I kind of was the one that sparked the inspiration and um the fire.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: You were the fire that was lit under Greg's ass.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's funny that you say fire because guess what?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's a Sagittarius.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I'm a Scorpio, Greg.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, so yeah, more Morgan, our daughter, is a Scorpio.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Morgan's now.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's my girl.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: So she's now 25 years old, and she actually works here with us at InnerSense.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um, her title is called The Director of Joy.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: She puts so much joy into everything that we do around here.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that it started.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Can I just can I just say though, Joanne, I love that this started from just you being a good mother?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I really love that because you know what?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of I and you know, in the medical profession, I see so many kids and like I'm just looking at their parents.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you guys even want to be parents?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like there's a lot of I run across a lot of people like that.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: So it just warms my heart when I see someone who's really dedicated to their child, and this is beautiful.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I mother everything.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like a big old mother for sure.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is not couples therapy.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, what about you, Greg?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you tell us a little bit about I mean to Joanne's uh you know background, I'm I'm I'm a passionate hairdresser and will always be.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um I left the chair after about 12 years and kind of embarked in in a pro beauty career, um, working in many, many facets in the pro business and big beauty.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And but I always had a passion and a love for uh all things products and love creating.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, again, uh as a parallel at a parallel path of Joanne's discovery, uh green chemistry was really emerging.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we're talking back into uh you know the late 90s, especially as Europe was formalizing EU standards and really forcing US companies to really evaluate their ingredient choices and sending cosmetic directives over about eliminating ingredients.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: It put a lot of pressure on the beauty industry, but it wasn't there wasn't a lot of appetite for solving the problem.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um I became really enamored with the whole science behind green and organic chemistry, and really what you know turned into a passion really was an obsession because it was like, how can we begin to develop products that are efficacious, um, that meets the emerging and the growing demand for products that are not only clean but safe, because you know, um I think that that's really the biggest piece.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Joanne spoke about the cosmetic-based ingredients that are found, petrochemicals, resin silicones, plasticizers, microplastics.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's this other feed of toxic-based ingredients, and these are EDTAs, MEA's, um, PEGs, uh uh MTAs, all of these types of ingredients, of course, sulfates, parabens, phanoxinethanols, all those types of ingredients that you know consumers are becoming more and more aware of today.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we really recognize that you know, in order to bring these types of products to marketplace, um, that it would really require a commitment not only to the quality of the ingredients that we curated, but more importantly, becoming very much um uh consciously involved in the manner in which they were processed.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because even though uh an ingredient might be um uh naturally derived, it could be synthetically processed, right?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So wow, yeah, yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: They maintain their purity to maintain the efficacies of the ingredients, they're not adulterated, uh, they're not commercially processed.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, that's really where we focus on.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of really kind of speak in terms of skincare because a lot of our ingredients really come from that philosophy of how you curate and process ingredients to maintain the purity and the efficacies.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: And really, that's really what makes Intersense unique and different.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's really where my passion lies.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think that flash forward what 15 years, we were kind of the grandparents of clean hair care.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, and I think what makes our products again so unique is that one, Joanne and I are hairdressers, right?
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Everything we do starts in our salon here in our in our in our headquarters.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we put our hands in the product, we're putting our hands in the hair because we know as hairdressers what the expectation is, not only of the beauty professionals who are using our products, but then the consumers, because the consumers have a high expectation.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, look, your hair is your crown and glory.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's so true.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that that again lies um what really sets us apart um uh with our products and uh and then again, flash forward 15 years, uh the emergence of this consumer that's become so much more ingredient conscious.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they're they're they're devout to wanting uh to make sure that the brands that they're associated with using uh are um value-based, mission-based, transparent in everything they do.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we've kind of stayed in that lane from day one when we decided to launch Intersets.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's you know, I was actually going to ask you guys that is that how does it feel being a brand that has been doing it right from the beginning?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because I see so many band like brands now that are hopping onto this like you know bandwagon of, yeah, you know, we're gonna be fully organic and you can trust us and all this stuff.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how was how difficult was it to find the lab that you needed and find the you know the partners that you needed to really make your vision come true?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, let me tell you something.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was a four-year journey to get us the initial and like initial chemistry.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of trial and error.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: We worked with a lot of different, you know, chemists that had just tremendous pedigrees uh in the area, but still, you know, I I continue to just be devout to what I wanted.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't gonna take shortcuts, you know, and um, and so it got us there.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: It it's it is a constant work in journey, you know, work in progress for us.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you're right, the the space is becoming crowded because messaging and wordsmithing is there.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of consumer confusion in the marketplace, just driven based on great marketing.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, big brands are getting into it.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: The word clean uh is you know, we're getting now the greenwashing to clean washing.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um but consumers need to become their best own advocates and really understand just because a product says sulfate free, paraben-free, silicone-free really doesn't mean anything, right?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's clean, but it's not.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: And even the word clean, I can point out right now 15 brands that are using that word, but when you turn over the back of the bottles, they've got you know, EDTAs or polyclaturniums or thinoxinethanol, and it's like those are the sort of things that again, our consumer, we know, is really intelligent and we respect that.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, to that point, we formulate to meet their needs and their expectation.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that that's amazing.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I want to just say this because like I think a lot of people don't understand that, you know, you can do like hair care without having all these like crazy chemicals.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know like when I was growing up, you know, I was in India, I was born in India, and my mother was very particular about my hair.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: She was always like putting like coconut oil in it and like washing it with like you know, natural stuff that she would she would have.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I grew up with this like, I guess, like, you know, culture of I don't need to have like 80 different chemicals in my shampoo.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: So when I like, you know, when I see your line and I use it, I'm just like, this is perfect.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like this is exactly what my hair needs.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have to worry about, well, how is this going to impact my skin?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because for me, the biggest problem with shampoos and anything hair care is when I use it on my scalp and my and my hair, it also impacts my skin, which is something that's been a huge problem for me.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I've never had like with your products, that's not even an issue.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, like that's that's something I think that people really need to start understanding that it's not just about ingredients, it's about how they work with all areas of your body, and that's where it really matters to be organic.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I really learned early on uh in my career, uh, especially uh I worked for brands that were really steeped into that the scalp space and you know, understanding working with some great um schools of dermatology that about 80% of skin and scalp conditions are really induced by the very products people use.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and your scalp, believe it or not, wants to be one of the healthiest areas of your body.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, we don't normally attribute product to scalp conditions, right?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: We always say, oh, my scalp is oily or my scalp is dry, but they keep using the same product.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's because those products are really astringent, they don't really work in synergy with the skin, the scalp, and the hair.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, they're loaded with a lot of cosmetic-based ingredients that are solely focused on creating a cosmetic effect on the hair, shine, volume, all those things, but ultimately that just weights down.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: It also compromises scalp health and integrity.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the other big culprit is artificial fragrances.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Artificial fragrances um are highly, you know, disruptive, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, your scalp wants to be, you know, again, one of the healthiest areas and it reacts.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: If you're utilizing a product that's too astringent and pulling all those natural oils off, the scalp's going to overproduce because it's natural, right?
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Or it could just shut down.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that, yeah, that is one of the keys uh to you know, the basis in which we formulated to was making sure that we were working with ingredients that work in synergy with the skin, the scalp, and the hair that were really nourishing, that replenished uh and and and really kind of benefited the scalp as well.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: I I mean I I love that.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, Joanne, like, you know, feel free to hop in here because as a woman, I can honestly say that like, you know, for us, our hair is like, you know, it's kind of what you said, you know, Greg, it's the crown that we wear.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think women feel so much more confident when our hair looks nice and when it feels soft and you know, everything's going the way it's it should be going, you know, and and and to find a brand, I mean, to that can do that without having to worry about, well, am I being you know friendly to the environment, especially, you know, today's Earth Day.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: So great way to talk about it today.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: But like, you know, in general, like being a good consumer, am I putting the right stuff in my hair?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that all of that plays into it.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: But first and foremost, it's the quality of the products.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the thing, the thing that we always um strive for here at InterSense is we talk about less is more, and um, our products really are highly, highly, highly concentrated.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so a very little goes a long way.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And really, our products work best with water.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always encourage people to make sure that their hairs, you know, to be more present with the whole ceremony of caring for their hair.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so that starts in the shower and making sure that your hair is fully, fully saturated, wet when when starting.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And people will say, What do you mean?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I wet my hair, but it that what they don't realize at times is that your hair is like a sponge.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so it takes a little bit of time for the water to actually saturate into the hair.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh with all of our products, like I said, a little bit goes a long way.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So starting with our hair baths, like just using starting like with the size of a nickel or a quarter dime amount, and then um awakening the products in between the fingertips and then applying straight to the scalp and starting to really consciously just work at the scalp area, because uh people have a tendency to mindlessly, you know, blob a blob of shampoo in their hand and then just blob it right on the top of their head to kind of lather it up.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: But really, what you'll find is our products uh lather so luxuriously if they're tended to in a very mindful way.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with the conditioners, you know, a little, little, little bit goes a very long way.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and making sure that you're putting it in your hands and awakening it between your hands and then mindfully, you know, starting at the mid-length of the hair and kind of working it into the ends.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you find that it's not distributing well, add a little bit more water.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Our products work really, really, really well with water.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: So right.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: No, I've noticed that.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's funny you say that because I'm one of those people, I'm guilty of this.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I have a lot of hair, you know, and I blame my parents, it's genetic, you know, but like I have a lot of hair and I need a lot of products sometimes.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: But with your with your shampoo, I I don't.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I it's exactly what you just said, you know, as a consumer, I can definitely validate that because it works beautifully.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to ask you, you know, how did you come up with a formula that was still like lathering really well with organic ingredients?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, was that challenging?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I no, not necessarily.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, really to Joanne's point, it's about the concentration.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're really utilizing rich concentration of ingredients, coconut, pumpkin seed, avocado, shea butter.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And we reduce our water weight uh and again increase the the concentration of these ingredients that bring an efficacious performance value.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the lathering you get is really induced more from the natural oils, the pumpkin seed and avocado.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um so really that's that's why we're not utilizing any type of betains um at all.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're just that are foam boosters, we're just utilizing um again and relying on um the efficacies of the ingredients that provide um the natural lathering that you um feel.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, um, and and the other nice thing uh when we talk about concentration, most shampoos, traditional, contain anywhere between 75 to 80 percent water, right?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because water is always the first and cheapest ingredient in a bottle.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but our water weight is less than 45%.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why our product is so concentrated.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why most consumers learn to use a lot of product is because it's so diluted down, you need a lot of product to make it work.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: And again, that's that's counter counter contradictive to us.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're so concentrated to Joanne's point, you don't need a whole lot of water, both for our shampoos, conditioners, and even into our styling products, again, because we're really relying on the the plant-based ingredients to make the product work and perform.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that makes sense because you know, I, for example, I'm a huge fan of leave-in conditioner and I love yours.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like I absolutely love it because it's light, it doesn't make, it doesn't weigh down my hair.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, in terms of like, you know, from that standpoint, like how do you how do you feel about like all these other products out there that are like you know being marketed and stuff?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then you guys look at what you did and you're like, well, ours does it, except it's a lot cleaner and it's organic and it doesn't matter.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how does that feel as entrepreneurs?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like just seeing that, you know, saturation of this market.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's it's frustrating.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's no ifs, ends, or buts about it.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is our life's work, and um, but I guess at the end of the day, I truly believe that um um the consumer who's really truly looking for pure and clean is going to do their research, and that research is gonna lead them to Inner Sense.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then, like yourself, once you have the opportunity to experience it, you're gonna be a customer for life.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And exactly, yeah.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I like read our reviews.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: I always go when I'm in a bad mood, I get on to our customer reviews because it's humbling.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that an oxymoron, Greg?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's yeah, it's humbling, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: It is humbling.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can't compete with L'Oreal, I can't compete with SD Lauder, I can't compete with Hinkle that they have you know the ability to put these amazing products in marketplace that are so well marketed and so well branded and so well wordsmith that they're hitting all of the key um selling and emotional points that this consumer is looking for.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, those products um really don't differentiate themselves from the other products that they're selling.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, no, I'm gonna I'm just gonna add this in here.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I think you can absolutely compete with them because your product has never made me break out.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And every time I use Panteen, I kid you not, I get cystic acne.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like cystic acne.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's not even just like a little bit like white.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Heads, no, it's like, and it's all over my body, too.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, yeah, you know, you know what I mean?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I'm mad that these companies are like overtaking because, in my opinion, this is the best shampoo I've used.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, no, it is, it is because, like I said, it impacts the rest of our skin.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's something I think consumers, I mean, especially you know, with how saturated this market is.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, skincare saturated, hair care is now saturated.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: You need to realize that it's never just like you're not just treating one area of your body, it's going everywhere.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: If you're in the shower, it's rinsing off and going to all of your skin, and it's gonna impact that.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, like that needs to be brought up in like marketing uh discussions, I feel like, you know?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right, it does.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I'll say it's beauty influencers like yourself that help educate and empower consumers to make better, healthier, cleaner choices.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, uh we rely on beauty influencers, beauty professionals uh who really are becoming more and more passionate about clean beauty and wanting to help empower, again, consumers through um information.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: I, you know, and I love that.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: I want to actually talk more about how you guys came up with the range because I know obviously you guys are very experienced um, you know, hairstylists, and and I want to know, like when you were coming out with your line, what were some of the key products that you wanted to launch with that you thought everybody needed?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, go ahead.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was just I was just thinking because I wanted to comment earlier on your love for the um leave-in conditioner.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this isn't quite answering your question, and Greg definitely can probably speak more to it, but it just makes me think about like, you know, we really wanted a line that was efficacious, that was not gonna be a hundred thousand skews for, you know, that could really be hair care for all hair types.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, one, you know, a whole line that was going to be able to work on every single type of hair.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that I love about our sweet spirit leave-in conditioner, like you mentioned, not only is it lightweight and doesn't weigh the hair down, but I am a big proponent in layering hydration and going back to the importance of water and keeping the hair wet and making sure that you're using the water in addition to the product to keep the moisture and hydration in the hair.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oftentimes we have a tendency to like turban towel our hair when we get out of the shower and then it kind of starts to dry, and then we start to put product on top of it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: But believe it or not, our products work better when the hair is actually hydrated with water.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so making sure that you leave the water in your hair as much as you can and then start to layer the products on top, it's almost like you're locking in all of that moisture, but it's moisture that's not going to weigh the hair down.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like um, you know, the hair's just naturally hydrated from the inside out.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so yeah, so I just wanted to, yeah, I just wanted to kind of make that point about layering.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so anyway, but Greg can speak more to the line, and you know, I think it's our philosophy.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we're about health and wellness, and I think we wanted to keep the line, you know, sensible and things that worked, and you know, not even though we're hairdressers and we love products and all of that, and hairdressers love products, but we really wanted to make sure that every single one of our products makes sense and is and we were very mindful at bringing products out that we really feel is going to work in synergy with the rest of our products.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, that makes sense.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually have a question because you know, looking at your ingredients list, I absolutely love it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that you have like rice bran oil and coconut oil and green tea leaf extract.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell me, um, Greg, a little bit about the green tea leaf extract, like what that does for our scalp?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: Because I know it's all over skincare, you know?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it is.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's just an amazing antioxidant, right?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so it's actually um very nourishing to the derma and um and really again helps protect against free radicals as well.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just really a really great universal ingredient uh in the product.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um also, you know, it it in in in in within the formula as well, it also works in combination with a few other ingredients as a pH adjuster.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it does have some really good, you know, multi-purpose uses for it as well.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Now, do we need a certain pH range, Greg, for our hair?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like I know they talk about that with skin, but like, is there some sort of like industry standard that I'm not aware of with like pH specifically for like hair care?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, most hair care is you know pH balance.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know that there were a few brands back in the day that really kind of pushed the pH piece, but most brands, you know, most products in marketplace maintain uh a you know 4.5 to 5.5 pH balance.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: But really, individually, an a person's individual body chemistry will have an effect on that, as well as their water that they use at home.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some people don't really understand what the acidity or the alkalinity of their water is, so that can also have an effect on product.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: But for the most part, you know, you don't really see that unless you're using something that is highly alkaline, it's going to create a lot of porosity in the hair.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and, you know, but that's very rare.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And most products, again, tend to be a little bit more on the lower scale because they're trying to keep the cuticle closed, which which also helps impart shine.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I have a very random question because I I think I heard this from like a friend or I don't know who, but you know, I was told that you can't wash your hair every day.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Now I have Indian hair and my hair, my scalp gets very oily, you know.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: So like that never registered with me.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Is there any merit in that, you know, from your experiences?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, both of you?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I mean personally, I mean Joanne can speak to this.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to speak, yeah, yeah.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I, you know, I mean, I think it's definitely a personal choice.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that we kind of as a society do tend to overwash and overcleanse for sure.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes with oily scalp, it can be from overcleansing because it you it's hard to kind of go through that um process or cycle of allowing the oil to kind of um, you know, what am I trying to say, like uh sustain itself or like, you know, it's hard when you have oily hair, you don't want it to be oily, right?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: So then you have the overcleanse.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but generally with our hair, I mean, what we find the feedback that we get is that um the hair stays cleaner longer because we're not using all the uh filler product or filler ingredients.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so then dirt does not magnetize to the hair as easily.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: So um you might want to consider trying to like maybe more so spot cleanse certain areas, like if it's second, you know, second day or whatever, and you you're just like, okay, this would I would definitely wash my hair.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: You might want to try just sectioning out like the hairline.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: This I do this often because I have thicker hair and my hair's, I'm wearing my hair a little bit longer these days, and I'll just kind of cleanse the hairline, you know, cleanse my area where uh, you know, the hair is kind of around my face a little bit more.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll just like I almost even put my hair kind of like the back part in a shower cap, and then I'll go in the shower and kind of cleanse just around my hairline and then just stop restyle and kind of blow that out so I can get like a second or a third day with my style.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I also love our refresh dry shampoo.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if you've had the opportunity to use that, but that's a fabulous product.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually like to use it at night before I go to bed on a night that I know that I'm not gonna cleanse my hair the next day.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I take small amounts and I put it in the areas like my part line, like around my hairline, like maybe the nape of my neck and areas that tend to get a little bit more oily.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um, because of the ingredients, it kind of sucks up the oils that would naturally be there in the morning, and I can go a second day without cleansing.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's so interesting.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: I never knew about like I never even thought about the sectioning of the hair.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for that.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like the great tips and the tricks like that, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm going to go ahead.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: No, go ahead.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was just gonna say to Joanne that, you know, um, it's interesting you brought up the the dry shampoo because I have never been able to use them and it's because of the fragrance.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Going back to what Greg was saying about fragrances.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: I hate it when there's like so many, and because you know what I mean, my whole my hair smells like I don't know, like I rolled around in some cheap perfume, you know, from oh no, I totally agree.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's one thing that I love about our products is that the fragrance doesn't linger, so that if you want to wear a personal fragrance, you're gonna smell more like your personal fragrance as opposed to, you know, like your hair care.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, I would say that, and especially with our dry, dry shampoo, it's very kind of just um fresh.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's just a fresh, it feels like a refresh as opposed to like having yeah, lingering perfume.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, but Greg, you were you were saying something.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Please continue.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, I just wanted not to belater the the the the how many times you have to wash your hair.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think when you're finding your scalp to be oily too, you know, what you're secreting, know it's 100% water soyable.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: It will literally rinse out.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's not necessarily a need for you to shampoo it, just hit it with really good hot water.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you feel like you still want to get a little bit of scrub, just use a little bit of conditioner.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's enough, an enough um natural surfactant within the conditioner, anyway, that would also help remove any other type of buildup as well.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, again, the key too is you want to maintain as much natural hydration onto the scalp without stripping it off.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: And to Joanne's point, that will also, you know, over-shampooing will also, you know, induce uh more natural oil production, which you don't want.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I think that that makes sense, but I did not know that about the hot water.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: Again, tips and tricks.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: You guys are like an encyclopedia of hair.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is amazing.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no, I I love that.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I want to actually ask you a little bit about um the diversity in hair care because obviously you both have so much experience, and I'm sure you've worked with almost every kind of hair texture type, you know.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, what was that, you know, with in terms of incorporating it into your products, you know, making something that works for everybody?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like how hard was that?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, was it a challenge or did it just come naturally to you?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, it was by pure accident.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, really honestly, I mean, again, it we didn't really formulate to one hair type, we really formulated to um all hair types, right?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: And healthy hair.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we were really just going, I think health and wellness was our main key and focus.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, having kind of the less is more philosophy, I like Greg said, it was just by sheer, you know, use we found that just specifically curly thick hair loves our product because it's so emollient and so hydrating, and there's such rich ingredients that we kind of have this curl community, you know, standing on end for our products.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: They love, love, love our products.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and it also helps that my daughter Morgan, her hair is very, very curly.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: So for sure it was like me, you know, being a hairstylist and working with her hair very early on and realizing that the silicones, plastics, you know, resins were actually drying her hair out.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I actually started going to the health food store to try to find products that would work on her hair because I was so disenchanted with what the professional industry had put out in that regard.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I just couldn't find anything that worked, I was not really satisfied.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so, again, that's what kind of started Greg and I off on this journey of research and development and um our quest from curl control is actually a straight byproduct of trying to find something to work for Morgan's hair.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's our curl cream.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's just a lovely hydrating, it just leaves the hair natural feeling.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I love to layer hydration.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love to, I love that our products like you just use such small amounts, but you just kind of keep the hair layered between water and product and hydration, and it's just leaves the hair so healthy feeling.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I love that you mentioned like thicker hair because I definitely have thick hair and I've never like it's very, very, very difficult for me to find products that are gonna work for it and cleanse and like you know, condition the way I want it to be.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, most of the products I've seen out there are very much geared towards finer hair or hair that doesn't really need a lot, you know what I mean?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: So like for me, it's like my hair like changes from like wavy to straight to whatever the hell it wants to do, or like, you know.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: So like, but at the end of the day, it's still very dense, it's very uh heavy.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I find that with your uh conditioner and shampoo, like you know, just talking about those two products, it's perfect because I feel like my hair is clean, you know, and for me as a consumer, that's very important, is because I have to care, I want to feel like whatever I did in the shower, I'm gonna have clean hair at the end of it.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I want to actually ask about the like, you know, I know people talk a lot about like sustainability and stuff um these days.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I really want to dive into that with you guys in terms of, you know, um, all the nitty-gritty details about the sustainable aspect of your brand.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: If you could tell us more about that.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, for for many years, of course, that's been uh top of mind uh as a value, and um everything that we've done up to that point um really was kind of from behind the scenes, right?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: In the manner in which we curate, the manner in which we process, produce our products.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um about four years ago, I started saying, well, look, you know, we need to really kind of make what we're doing actionable and communicate it in a um in a realistic way so people get it, right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I really charged everybody here with working on putting together um some pretty big initiatives.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um the the cornerstone to that was not only about um you know giving back, but also um really stepping up and and we started this initiative called People and Planet.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it really covers everything that we do from a sustainability point of view.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and um, you know, we became a planet, a 1% for the planet company, established cause partners, um, really uh with a lot of our philanthropy going to uh women's health as well as supporting other uh environmental organizations.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh and then of course plastics reduction was also another major initiative.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we partnered with Plastic Bank um to really uh bring ourselves to a plastic neutral point of view or plastic proactive point of view.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: In 2020, uh we we invested in capturing five years of our past output, uh, and then have made a commitment to um uh capturing 150% of our annual output every year.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then at the same time, we transitioned all of our packaging, all of our bottles from virgin plastic to 100% PCR.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Really to kind of address that need.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a continuing journey because as new packaging uh becomes available as consumer demands grow, uh, you know, the industry is is working feverishly to respond to that.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we we're really at the forefront of that and and really want to be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's really impressive, though, 150% annually.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's not, I mean, it's a pretty big commitment on our part.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and then um, of course, um, you know, the other piece to that um was becoming a B Corp.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we formally became a B Corp um this month.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, was it this month?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: This what month are you in?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: May no, we're not in May.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: April.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: April this month, April, yeah.
• 39:25
  unknown: Sorry.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: It all runs together.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I forget every day, don't worry.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm telling you about it.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, that was a two-year journey, right?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's not about checking boxes, it's about um learning how to hold yourself accountable, uh, doing better.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so it forced everybody in the organization to be a participant in our journey to becoming a B Corp company and really striving uh to be better.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh we're we're excited about the journey in front of us um to that.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, today being um uh Earth Day, we just announced that it is our mission from this point forward also to become carbon neutral.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we are focused on neutrality as well.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said, it's not about saying it, it's not about a marketing gimmick, it's about a mission and action.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and um, that's something that Joanne and I have always wanted to do, and we're just so grateful that the company is is at this stature in which we can reinvest into um people and our planet.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's really important.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: I love that and I love how genuine it is and how built in to your brand it is.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot, you know, I can't say kudos to you guys, give you guys enough kudos for that because that I think really for me as a consumer, it really sets brands apart.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, did you guys start this from the beginning or not?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I like really hats off to you guys and thank you so much for sharing all the tips, by the way.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_02: I've learned so much and just so often this is fun.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, Joanne definitely lit a fire under you, Greg, and that fire took off, you know.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: She's chasing me with water.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: She's talking about water so much, yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: But thank you so much, Joanne and Greg.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: This has been such an honor hosting you and learning so much about your brand.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: I, everyone listening, please, please, please go check out InnerSense Beauty.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, their website is InnerSenseBeauty.com.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: They're beautiful products.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they work for my hair.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: My hair is very, very finicky.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I know that you're gonna love them.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: So check them out.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Leave us some feedback, tell us what we're doing right, wrong.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: If you have any questions for uh Joanne and Greg's team, please leave them in the comments on Instagram and we will definitely pass them along.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you guys so much.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_02: This has been wonderful.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having us.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really appreciate it.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Bye-bye.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 41:59
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• 42:04
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• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.