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Episode 14: The Spiritual Path: Beyond Religion (Spirituality 1 of 4) · the Unvarnished Edit

0:00
Welcome to season two, episode two of The Unvarnished Edit, where two friends talk about what it's actually like to live an adversity-filled life.
0:08
Be prepared to laugh, possibly cry, and swear along with us.
0:12
This is Angie, and today's episode is the first in our spirituality arc, where we discuss what spirituality means to us.
0:20
We hope you enjoy Hello Hello.
How are you? I'm good.
0:27
I'm good.
0:28
How are you? I'm good.
Are you getting ready for your upcoming trip? Yes.
0:33
We are going...
0:35
Oh, I'm so excited.
0:36
I'm so excited.
0:36
So I am taking my youngest daughter to New York City.
0:40
She has a Christmas birthday, and like, literally right after Christmas.
0:44
So hard.
0:45
And so, this year for her birthday, I gave her a trip to New York City to go see Hamilton, and I booked it for the summer.
0:56
And so we are going to New York.
Very excited to see Hamilton.
This will be my third time seeing Hamilton, but my first in New York City.
This will be her first time seeing Hamilton.
We have, like the dorks that we are, we have, been planning a reel that we're gonna make that goes to some of the Hamilton songs.
So we have different clips that we've planned out.
1:22
We have some that we have to do here at home while we're packing, some...
And so we have, like, this whole scripted out reel for Hamilton.
And then the best part about it is, is that, my brother lives in Philadelphia, and, he has a daughter the s- pretty much, she's, like, six months older than mine, and they are by far the youngest grandchildren in our family schematic, right? Everyone else is in their 20s and 30s, and then we kind of have these little afterthoughts.
That's not really what it is, but that's what it looks like when you look at everyone in a picture together, right? Consistently, when we're all together, they'll say, "Okay, let's do a picture with all the grandkids," and these two little kids will get in with everybody who's in their 30s, and people will be like, "No, not great-grandkids right now, grandkids."
And I'm like, "They are grandkids."
These are them.
So, Yeah.
they've gotten- this again Yeah, yeah.
They, have gotten really close now that they kind of have the ability to text, and, they text nonstop.
And so they've decided to come down to New York with us and meet us there, and, they found one...
Right next to us, there was one open seat, so they bought a ticket for my niece, and so they get to go see it together, and they are...
My brother texted me yesterday, and he was like, "Do you know the outfits these girls are planning on wearing to the show?" And I was like, "No, please tell me."
So it's just so cute.
It's like the cousin experience I never thought she would have, right? Yes.
Yeah I grew up with cousins, and so having her be able to figure out this relationship from Phoenix to Philadelphia, right? And, my niece has added my daughter into her friend group chat, and so there's these four girls that are just having the best time getting to know each other, and that is an amazing thing about phones and social...
cool.
really, really like the way that we thought phones would be, right? Like connecting us.
That's really what these girls have made, and so, we can't wait.
We're really, really excited.
3:27
I will say a little nervous.
We are recording this in the summer, obviously.
The Knicks are in the NBA finals.
3:35
New York City is going crazy over the Knicks.
3:38
There's watch parties everywhere.
There's just chaos everywhere.
3:42
The World Cup starts this weekend.
3:44
Brazil is playing in New Jersey.
3:47
I'm a little nervous to be navigating the city with, like, these...
3:51
I'm, I'm really grateful my brother and his wife decided to come because now I have some, you know, someone else to be in charge of, like, what subway do we get on? And I was, telling Michael last night how I just s- New York is the only city that when I get ready to go there, I get so nervous about, I don't wanna look like a country bumpkin, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah I've traveled all over the world.
4:17
And he was like, "Babe, we live in the fifth-largest city in the United States.
4:22
You know what you're doing.
4:23
Like, you're cool.
4:26
You can do this.
4:27
You are fine."
4:29
I'm like, "But what if I look like a tourist?" He's like, "You are."
it exactly, but what is it with I don't know to look like a tourist? Is it because we have lived for decades in a place where we have so many tourists and we don't like them Maybe.
they irritate us? Maybe.
Yeah, just wanna be cool.
4:54
I just wanna be cool.
4:55
Like, New York City is so cool, and you walk around and you see people that are so fashionable, and I'm like, "I just wanna fit in.
I wanna be, like, a cool person in a New York City way," but that's not possible when you don't live there.
5:11
Like, you're going to look like a tourist, full stop I, there, there are a lot of things that you and I are similar on, and there are some things that we are just absolute polar opposites on, and this is one of them.
I am like, I am like, I could legitimately care less.
Like, is there a dress code? Okay, I will follow that.
But only because you put it there.
5:40
I'm like I just wanna blend in.
And could I be, like, of the lowest class? Because then hopefully you won't even, like, want anything to do with me Okay.
5:51
My problem, now I feel so, like, open to tell you this even though, because I have permission 'cause you are so opposite.
5:59
You have to, you have to walk a lot in New York City.
It just requires you to walk a lot, and I am struggling with my knee.
6:06
I have a knee problem, and I have to wear, like, certain insoles in my shoes or I will not be able to walk all day.
6:17
I will be in huge amounts of pain.
And I have this massive dilemma of I am going to have to sacrifice some sort of coolness because there are only certain shoes that I can wear these insoles in.
6:33
I cannot wear cute flats with no sole.
6:36
I cannot wear boots.
6:38
I cannot...
6:39
I have to wear sneakers like an old lady with insole, specific orthotic insoles in them, and that is almost impossible to make cool.
6:50
And so I have literally gone onto Reddit and typed, "How do people walk in New York City all day and still look cute?" Newsflash, none of them are wearing orthotic insoles, guys My God, I love you So then I'm like, maybe I just pay a lot of money and take cabs everywhere so I can have better shoes on Or, or, or we don't worry about I'm sorry.
7:30
That's not available.
7:31
That's not available to me.
Not available.
7:32
So That option, not available.
Not an option I don't know.
I might have to have knee replacement surgery when I get back from New York City because I will have...
7:45
No, I, I will, I will behave.
7:47
I will, I know It reminds me of this episode of Sex and the City where Miranda decides to move to, like, Brooklyn, and she is bemoaning the fact that she's become the kind of person that has to pack sneakers to change into when she gets off the train to walk home from the train because she can't wear her heels around anymore.
And I'm like, "Well, I feel you, girl."
Yeah.
No, and honestly, it's just really something like that.
8:16
Yeah you just get to the age you want your body to work as Yeah.
to, Yeah and it no longer does.
And I'm pretty sure it's our body choosing comfort for us.
8:30
Ugh I really- Mm.
I know.
I know, but I really honestly feel it.
I real- 'cause it's like all of those things that do, like cause us incredible pain or sickness, staying up late, doing an all-nighter, right? Not good for us.
Like, it is literally choosing comfort for us.
Like, you're gonna get sick because did this or because you did too much, Yeah right? And, and so you get sick, and it is literally your body's way of being like, "You know what? I'm tired, No more and we don't have to do this anymore."
9:06
Yeah Yeah.
I look forward to seeing what this looks like What happens? What happens? Well, I am, will have, yeah the conversation of what kind of shoes did Jaelene wear oh, I can't wait to see what happens afterwards Exactly.
I will need all, I will need to approve all public photos from this trip.
9:25
Yeah, I get that.
Yeah.
Yeah, so but I am very excited.
I'm very excited I'm so excited for you.
Yeah Yeah, I'm so excited for you.
So normally we have, like, this kind of segue into this space, um, into what our episode is.
9:43
Today, that is not the case.
Not true.
9:47
But today's, today's episode is our first on the spirituality arc.
And so, wow, this has a lot of story behind it for both of us.
10:02
And we'll get into, like- More detailed of it, I think, pieces of it in future episodes, you know, when we talk about, work, when we talk about religious trauma, when we talk about, you know, maintaining, a spiritual life and those pieces to it.
But I know that for me, my spiritual journey has been a long one, and it has been absolutely key to everything, and still, and still kind of is.
But There's a lot of story around there.
10:33
So how do we wanna...
how do we wanna start today? We normally have this, like, I know.
We normally...
Yeah, we do.
And how interesting that the first time we don't have a natural segue is sort of a, a real challenging topic.
And so, you know, last week we had our first episode on joy.
Next week we have our first episode on parenting.
And, you know, I'm kind of viewing these first episodes as just us kind of free, open conversation about where we're coming from and where we're at right now.
Just sort of like a foundational.
Almost in my...
You know, especially after the conversation we had last week about joy, for me it's almost like discussing it until I get to the point of like, yes, there's the piece that I'm gonna work on as we go through these next three episodes, right? Like, you know, if you haven't seen our, listened to our episode on joy last week, there was a point at the end where Angie said something that just really like hit a nerve in me that was like, yeah, this is the thing that I'm here for this season when it comes to joy.
And so I'm hoping in our conversation on spirituality today that we can kinda lay the groundwork where at the end I walk away thinking, "Okay, yeah, here's the question I wanna explore with our guests and with our more intentional episodes as we travel through, um, this arc this season," right? So Yeah I'm not sure where to start with spirituality other than to say, um, my adult work in this area has really come from learning how to separate religion from spirituality Yes and finding the power that comes from being a deeply spiritual person, which I consider myself to be.
12:36
Mm-hmm.
that power for me is knowing who I am and knowing where my true north is.
To me, that comes from spirituality, is my true north.
I don't know.
What do you think? Yeah.
12:54
No, I was thinking, you know, that it might be to kind of like level set Mm-hmm.
13:02
um, kind of backgrounds and Mm-hmm.
13:06
we even chose this topic because, there's so many different topics we could have chosen, right? Like, why did we choose joy and happiness and parenting and spirituality of all things, right? It's like we, we took all of the we took all of the topics in our life that, are front and center that we're Yeah.
on Mm-hmm.
put them into one season 'cause I think we're masochists at some point.
Like, okay, what else can we work on, on ourselves? Oh, I know.
Let's delve into this.
Just the lighthearted, yeah, the lighthearted topic of spirituality that everyone agrees on.
Right? That causes no divide at None whatsoever no issues or c- yeah, at, in any way, shape, or form.
And we all know that when we start learning something new or when we talk about things, that life tends to brings us life lessons Yeah And has, uh, same thing, right, as far as, like, the adult work for it.
I've been looking for community and connection for as long as I can remember, right? Yeah studied all different kinds of religion.
Buddhism, Taoism, like, just so many different religions, I explored and nothing actually felt right as far as religion goes, but I've always been incredibly spiritual and have had Yeah faith that there is something else besides me, out there kind of controlling the space.
And so my journey in adulthood has really been figuring out, like, what does that mean to me, Yeah it literally guides absolute everything I do.
It's not something I talk about usually, because it's for me.
Mm-hmm.
and you know, it's in my space.
But it really does kind of like drive absolutely everything, I do and kind of where I'm at right now, and where I've been I would say for, well, about the past 20 years, a little bit longer, is, is that there is a God, source, universe, whatever you wanna call it, but there is a, there is a life force that, that runs everything Yeah creates everything.
And, and we have the ability with faith and practice embody that.
And, That, like I was just talking to my sister this morning, and, a lot of the work that we do is, it is energy work.
And, which to me is part of my spirituality, right? And is that, like, understanding of that life force and those kinds of pieces.
And she's talking about physical ailments, and I said, "Okay, so, like, how has your energy practices been going? You know, have you been doing your daily connections?" You know what I mean? That kind of stuff.
And she just sent me a GIF of, David from Schitt's Creek saying, "It's too much.
It's too much."
She texts me again, she's like, "I know.
I I know I know."
Um, that kind of connection, so yeah, that is, That's so funny.
where, that's where I come from Yeah.
I come from a very religious background.
I'm still unpacking this in my adult life, but sort of the way religion played a role in our family was, much deeper than just being a religious belief, right? Mormonism kind of is a whole Lifestyle.
It's a whole lifestyle.
And so, it was just from a very early age not for me, right? It's just was never really for me, and I never felt the way that people were saying they felt, and I always felt so out of place when we would be in meetings and people would be sharing their feelings and their testimonies.
I would always just take it so personally.
Like, I don't feel like that.
Something is wrong with me because I don't feel like this.
I'm not accessing this.
And I always took that as like I was bad.
Something's wrong.
Something's wrong because these are all people I know and love and trust, and they're saying all of these things, and they can feel all of these things.
And I'm over here like, "Ain't nothing happening.
Nothing."
Yeah.
And so I really struggled with it through my entire growing up years because it was not a place that I felt like I could say out loud, "I don't think this is working for me," right? That just was...
That's just not really allowed in that religion very well, especially in, you know, like the '80s and '90s.
And so as soon as I left home, I quit going to church.
As soon as I left.
It was just like never went back again.
And s- it was a way for me to kind of, now I'm gonna find my own thing.
Like, now I'm truly free and can go do my own thing, right? So not a super popular move.
And I also have to be true to myself is what I've come to in that.
And since then, I have a real difficult time with religion, Mm-hmm.
I have also been in a position where it has been my family's desire to have me at church and in a religion that any time I made mention of praying or anything spiritual, it was like it took on, a world of its own, right? Where they were like, "Oh my gosh, Jaelene might go back to church."
And it's like, "No, no, no.
Just because I pray doesn't mean that."
And so I kind of took my whole spiritual life and just brought it inside me and have never deeply expressed it again.
I get sort of uncomfortable.
19:18
Now that I'm older and, you know, sort of more distant from my family, I am a little bit more comfortable talking about it, but it's always something that I feel like I've had to keep really private so that it wasn't causing me to have these constant incoming conversations about, "Are you going to go back to church?" Right? Yeah So that has been, made it a little bit, added a little bit of a different element to it, and for a long time, honestly prevented me from doing anything spiritual 'cause I just was like, "Well, I'm just not gonna do anything then.
If I can't even pray without talking about it or mentioning it, then I'm just not gonna do anything," and I just felt like I-- it wasn't available to me.
And then when I went to prison, that all really changed.
20:13
I started to spend a lot of time read- Jesus in Everyone finds Jesus in prison.
20:20
Jaelene found s- there's always...
will do it, there is...
20:24
will do it got it, yeah.
There, you have to find a connection to something You have to have something, 'cause everything else is taken away from you, right? Yeah.
20:36
all you have...
with yourself.
Yep, that's all you have is you.
20:42
And so you have to look inward and be like, "Who am I? Where Yeah What am I?" And so, I went down the Buddhist route.
20:53
I would not call myself Buddhist, but if there is a spot that I feel very comfortable, it's in Buddhism.
It's a religion.
It's not a religion really.
21:05
It's a series of teachings and practices that allows you to explore what spirituality is and what, where am I? Who am I, right? The duality of you can't find the place inside of you where there is a you, right? And so that speaks to, there's gotta be something else out there.
Yeah And the times that I have felt most connected to the something have been never in religious practice, always in spiritual practice, in nature, in breathwork, in meditation, in, yoga, in like those deeply inner spiritual practices where it is just me having to face the creation of me and the world.
22:00
And so that's sort of where my spirituality comes from Yeah.
love it.
love it.
Man, I had a question it was right there, Was it right in your third eye? I know, right? Exactly.
Like right there.
So funny how we just kind of naturally, naturally do, things like that.
Yeah, that uncoupling of spirituality has to be religious, right? Like, there Yeah be a religion in order to, be spiritual was a, was a really big thing for me I would say when I first started on this path, right? Yeah to figure out...
Like, there's, there has always been something, whether I had believed in it or not as, as far as, like, religion.
Like, I was always seeking something, right? I f- always felt like there is something in addition to this place kind of right here, and what, what that looks like, I, I don't know.
It felt to me, right, that it couldn't be confined.
And so, you know, in the work that we do when it comes to brain science and when it comes to, resilience and all of those pieces, if you actually look at, I mean, like, self-regulation practices, you look at, strategies to avoid compassion fatigue.
If you look at post-traumatic growth and the, pieces that are part of, the domains that are part of post-traumatic growth, all of them have a spiritual component to it, and that term itself can be very difficult for people because everybody has a different definition of what spiritual is.
And I'm super glad that you had said earlier, like, I- whatever y- you know, whatever you believe, it is you.
your belief.
We're not saying anything bad about it because legitimately what spirituality is, Yeah that relate- Yeah your own personal relationship.
There's no right or wrong.
At least for us, for, for where we're coming from, is we're not saying, you know, one is good, one is bad, you know, all of those pieces.
If it works for you, it works for you, right? But spirituality is a component in post-traumatic growth.
It is a component in resilience.
It is a component in, self-regulation practices, right? Mm-hmm.
our nervous system.
Some, some form of whatever that looks like for you is finding that connection, right, to something greater than just ourselves because if it's just ourselves, and this is where it was for me, well, hell.
24:44
Yeah.
Like, Yeah That's a scary Yeah.
24:47
Can it not be just me, please? Yeah.
Yeah, and that is a lot of responsibility as well, right? Like, what do...
If I'm the person who is in charge of everything...
you know, we have, we have all different kinds of, say spiritual practices.
None of my kids, they never went to church.
My oldest just went to church for my grandparents' anniversary, and it was a Catholic church.
And he came back, and he was like, "Mom."
And I'm all, "I know."
He's like, "What was that?" I Yeah "I know."
So even though he's, he's 27, it was his, his first experience in something that was just natural for us growing up, Yeah And they were raised with Mormon family.
25:37
Mm-hmm.
and so, but they never went to service outside of a funeral, Okay Which has their own thing.
But we always talked about God.
Mm-hmm.
talked about faith.
We always talked, we had angels.
We had, you know, lots of different ways, crystals, nature, like all of those kind of connections.
And three of my kids were atheists.
Mm-hmm.
I'm like, "Wait, wait.
What do you mean you don't believe in anything else?" Now, my girls still are, and my son is not.
But I was like, "Wait, like, what do you mean?" And so I had to, like, really kind of come to terms with, no, our spiritual discussions, Mm-hmm.
and, like, spirituality actually is even more than just source, right? Because for my girls, while they don't believe that there's a God, they still have all of these other things, angels, Yeah connection.
So it's like, okay, that's just what that means to them, right? And so that personal relationship is what we're talking about.
26:53
100%.
26:54
And one of the things that's always been interesting to me when I have conversations with people about religion, because I do a lot, is that I have never in my life ever been concerned with what happens after I die.
27:08
I'm not afraid of that.
either I'm not curious about that.
27:13
I think that while a lot of people think they know, we all know that we don't know for sure, and I will find out when I get there, right? And I think...
27:29
And that's just natural.
27:30
I didn't have to cultivate that feeling.
27:32
I didn't have to convince myself of that.
27:34
I have always felt that way, deeply unconcerned with what happens next.
Yeah and I think that has l- been, a freedom for me to be able to test out different practices and explore different practices and pathways without having to attach to that idea of what happens next.
27:58
And I think that's been really good for me to be able to sort of have that, like liberation.
28:06
Because I mean, it just...
28:07
I can't do anything about that.
That's just not...
Yeah It's going to happen.
28:12
And then if what this person thinks is gonna happen and their belief, in their belief system, my lifestyle is bad for what happens next, and I say that in air quotes if you're listening, well, then I will deal with that when I get there.
28:33
But I also refuse to believe, and have al- and I'll say this straight to anyone's face, I know I'm a good person.
Yes I refuse to believe that the way that I've lived my life isn't good enough for the source that created me.
You will never be able to convince me of that.
And so while I don't have concerns about what happens next, that's because it's in a deeply rooted belief that whatever it is, I'm good enough for it Yeah.
Which is a liberating space to be Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I had, I had so many, I had so many issues with religion and organized kind of space.
And, and me too, I wasn't really worried about after I die 'cause I was like, "Well, I'm dead, I'll be dead.
That's what will happen.
I'll be dead like I'm dead, so I don't really have control over Yeah.
Yeah.
And if there's more after than that hope...
I really do hope that there is reincarnation If there's more, oh my God, that's amazing.
yeah.
Like, yay! I hope There's more.
Yeah, I'll be so happy.
I will grow and evolve, and I'll enjoy it.
Yeah.
if there's not more, then I hope that what I've done here is enough to make me happy Yeah.
Yeah, and honestly, like, I kind of think of it as, like, it's, it's really none of my business because that's not where I'm at, Yeah here, and I'm trying to figure out, like, how do I live in this space, in this time, in my day-to-day, you know, current life? And there have been times that I've not been spiritual, and there's times that I've been Mm-hmm.
and all I know at 50 years of life is I feel better when I have my regular daily, everyday practices, 100%.
something that I have, that I've figured out, right? Yeah lots of, you know, ups and downs and ups and downs when it comes to...
It's kinda, it's almost to me like taking vitamins, right? Like, you, you get into this practice where you take vitamins, and then you're like, "Ah, I feel good.
Why am I still taking this? I don't need these anymore," and you stop taking vitamins.
And then you're like, few weeks later, you're like, "Why do I feel like shit?" then you're like, "Oh, 'cause I stopped taking vitamins.
They actually were working."
That's how spiritual practices Yeah.
31:07
Yeah like, gone times where I've disconnected from my own spiritual practices and what that looks like and have recognized, like, oh, I actually feel kinda shitty, Yeah and, this actually makes me feel better.
31:24
Yeah that's all that really makes a difference.
31:27
So would you, are you gonna share with us what your daily spiritual practices are? Oh, they're s- they're...
Honestly, not always exactly the same.
31:37
That's okay.
they are Yeah is I have, I have...
So I, I follow, um...
I won't say I follow.
been a part of a lot of the, the programming he's done for the, like, the last 13, 14 years, Mm-hmm.
Jarrad Hewitt, and he does a lot of, vibrational work and frequency work.
And so music has always helped me kinda drop into space and into my body, and so my practice has been being present and practicing being present.
So we all know, you know, longtime dissociative disorders and, being present is not my strongest suit, Mm-hmm.
it is a place that, we need to be, right? 'Cause it's all we have is right now is the Mm-hmm.
have the past.
We don't have the future.
I learned that a long time ago, but it's hard to embody it.
And Yes right now my practice is and grounding into source, which is me, like, flowing through me, right? And so I listen to, like, a daily kind of frequency track for that and a personalized kinda, like, journey track for that, and that gets me into that space, Mm-hmm.
trying to start my day every day with that, space and breathing throughout the day.
Having, like, intentional, like, okay, breathing.
Am I back in my body? Am I present and in this space? Yeah.
That's where I love that currently at Yeah, I love that.
33:12
And I, I like that we can acknowledge that this is where I am at right now, right? I have so many different spiritual practices.
33:20
And like you, I can tell a big difference in my relationships usually, is where it starts to show up first when I'm not doing any spiritual practice whatsoever.
It's a lot harder for me to regulate my emotions if I'm not engaging in some kind of spiritual practice.
33:40
If I'm not taking care of myself, right, then it's very hard for me to, regulate, which makes it very hard to be in healthy relation with others.
Right now, my spiritual practices are a little bit...
I'm engaging them a little bit more intensely because as I touched on last time, my mom recently died, so I'm sort of like working on moving through grief and everything that comes with that, which involves, creating a lot of space for sadness.
And so my current spiritual practice is to sit in the sauna at the gym and cry.
You and I were just talking about this.
I also, Mm-hmm.
a dear friend who, is a widow at a very young age and has been very helpful, to so many people by sharing her grief journey out loud on social media.
She just wrote a book about how she made it through that terrible grief period.
And so I was actually messaging with her over the weekend ju- just, you know, thanking her for all of the content that she puts out on grief.
And I've known her for a long time.
And she said, I...
You know, she used to live in Arizona, and she's since moved to another state.
And she said, "I will have to say, it's a little bit crazy that it's summer in Arizona and you're going to the sauna."
And I'm like, "Yeah, I know, but No, absolutely.
don't know what it is.
I don't know what it is."
I was, I was at therapy one day, and I had a real intense session and, and she said, "You know, we've got to make a plan.
Like, what are you gonna do for the rest of the day to take care of yourself?" And the first thing that popped in my mind was, "I gotta go sit in the sauna."
And so I went straight to the gym.
I was not in workout clothes.
I was...
This is one of those made-up rules we have, right? Like, I have to do a workout before I can go to the sauna.
I totally broke that rule that day.
In jeans and, like, no gym shoes, whatever.
I just went and sat in the sauna and cried for like 20 minutes.
And so, and I, and I meditate on a very regular basis.
And that is probably my core practice is, meditation and journaling.
35:42
So, and making sure that I am in nature at, at some point every week, that I am, like, in quiet nature.
That's like church to me.
That's what I call church.
And so, Mm-hmm.
Giving myself, like, a lot of space to let that love and energy from the spiritual practices and from like when I think about source, I just think about the highest, best version of myself, right? What does the highest version of myself need to feel proud of me right now, right? And so that's kinda how I envision that, and that's how I move through that.
Yeah so that's where I'm at right now Yeah, I love it.
I love it.
And as we, as we go on this arc, we're gonna, you know, talk about you know, other topics that are kind of dear, but we, we did just kinda want a level set of, know, what spirituality is, and really the, like, foundational piece of it for us is that spirituality is yours.
Yes.
Yes And what that looks like, honestly none of our business, to be honest with you.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, it's your, it's your space and it's your practice, and it can look completely and totally different, you know, depending on the person, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? There's not- there's that, that spirituality when we are having the discussion on spirituality, we are really talking about what is that relationship between yourself that life force that is there, Mm-hmm.
wherever it is, right? And what however you believe it is created or is there, whatever that relationship looks like Yeah.
you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm really excited to have the rest of these conversations.
I think, when we get to shadow work, that's gonna be really interesting.
That is...
actually really excited about the Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, I think that's probably the episode that I'm gonna walk out of knowing that that's a space I have to do some work in.
And excited to do it, you know? Like, let's, let's get through that.
Let's...
But, you know, this whole time that we're talking about this, I- there's just such a deep intersection between spirituality and our conversation in joy, right? And what I'm finding interesting in myself as we're talking is thinking about we had such a good conversation about how hard it is for us to feel joy, but here we are having a conversation about how easy it is for us to feel spiritual.
But both of us have kept it very private, and I think that's super interesting.
Like, because my spirituality is so deeply in the woo-woo world, right? Same.
Right? yeah.
Yeah And it- that is so far from its origin point in my life that I just feel more comfortable keeping it so private, right? Because I don't want it to be judged by others or...
And, you know, whenever someone talks to me about it, I'm always like, "Well, I'm a little woo-woo," so just, you know, and I always preface it with that.
Like, I set it up as, "I know I'm weird, so you don't have to listen to this if you don't want to," right? Right, right And that's sort of like a hesitance to feel a feeling and to be yourself, and maybe somewhat connected to n- having a block to joy, right? Because I do feel so much better when I am engaging in spiritual practice.
It makes me feel like it's just a tiny little leap to just get to the point where if I felt more comfortable and w- allowed it to flow more, would I be closer to experiencing joy? So I'm interested to have these two arcs kind of intersect with each other and, like, meld into one practice.
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Ciao Um, and there's been a lot of work on both of our sides, um, when it comes to this, this topic, Yeah specifically.
So we have our next topic that we'll talk about, and we will have a, we'll have a guest, is, religious trauma, and how that plays a part in our current spiritual practices, Yep.
And, and what that, what that looks like.
The shadow work that we talked about, which is, a piece of work that I've actually been doing work on for a couple decades.
And so, it's gonna sound weird, but I actually love shadow work.
I feel that's where all the, the power and the That's where all the juice is.
That's where all the juice is excited, I'm excited to see where it comes from, comes from that piece.
And then, maintaining a spiritual life when shit goes wrong, Yeah real easy to be spiritual when everything is going well, right? Yeah.
So before we do that episode, just as a warning to you and everyone else, I have committed to myself that I'm going to pull out my journals from when I was in prison.
I have them in a storage box.
And my journals from when I were, was in prison have a lot of conversation about developing my spiritual practice and what it meant to me and how it was helping me.
And so, and I have not revisited those words in quite a while.
So, I am kind of looking forward to that, 'cause I think I can really speak to getting through a difficult time and, and, Yeah Having spirituality on your side to help you do that.
And so it.
yeah.
Yeah.
And so, I'm actually looking forward to...
I'm ready to like revisit those journals.
I just kinda put them in a box and left them there and, it's definitely a good time to do that.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
I know.
well y'all are with us.
We are...
journey.
I was just gonna say, here we are starting a journey together, our favorite word.
Angie, we're going on a spiritual journey together.
Oh.
Yeah, back to you're missing an inside joke.
You're missing an inside joke.
But I bet you can figure it out.
exactly.
All right, friend.
Well, as always, thank you for always being so open and sharing and, listening and hearing, and we'll see you next time Absolutely.
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