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Claressa Shields (2021) - Olympics and Boxing to MMA · The Joe Rogan Recap

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  Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap. You there?
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  Today, we're diving deep into Joe Rogan's conversation with
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  the phenomenal Claressa Shields. This is episode hashtag 1619 of
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  The Joe Rogan Experience. Right.
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  And it's not just a surface level chat.
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  They really got into the mindset of a, well, a truly elite
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  champion boxer deciding to jump into MMA.
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  Yeah, MMA, totally different BS for anyone.
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  Maybe less familiar Caressa Shields.
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  I mean, where do you even start? Well, two time Olympic gold
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  medalist, first American boxer, man or woman to do that
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  back-to-back. She won her first gold at just
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  17. 17 incredible and multiple world titles across different
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  weight classes too. She's dominated boxing.
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  Absolutely dominated. So the big question we want to
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  pack today is why MMA? What's driving her?
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  Exactly. We'll get into her training,
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  specifically at Jackson Wink, her thoughts on boxing versus
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  MMA, you know, fighter treatment, promotion, all that
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  stuff and. Even the potential for it, like
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  Mega Fight down the line, it's really about getting inside her
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  head. She asked herself this question,
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  didn't she? Something like beyond boxing,
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  what am I truly capable of or? Am I as great as I think I am?
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  Yeah, yeah. That was the core of it.
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  For someone who's achieved so much, that drive is just
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  immense. It really speaks volumes.
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  And it wasn't just talk. She signed with the PFL.
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  That's a serious commitment. A.
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  Very serious commitment and interesting how she adapted her
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  boxing mantra. You know proper preparation
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  prevents poor performance. For MMA.
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  It still applies, but the preparation looks totally
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  different. Totally.
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  Which brings us to Jackson Wink. Huge name in MMA gyms.
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  What were her first impressions there?
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  And adapting to kicking. That must been huge.
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  Oh yeah, it sounds like it was both humbling but also really
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  empowering. She went in ready to learn, like
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  a beginner almost. Despite being a boxing legend.
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  Exactly, and she apparently picked up kicking incredibly
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  fast, even landing high kicks pretty early on, like back in
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  December when she started. Wow.
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  And part of that came from fan feedback about flexibility.
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  Yeah, apparently MMA fans pointed out she might need more
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  flexibility. So what does she do?
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  Starts doing yoga, aiming to do the splits by the end of the
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  year. That's dedication.
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  Did they talk about hot yoga? I know Rogan likes that.
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  They touched on it, she hadn't tried it but saw the potential
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  benefit, you know, muscles being more pliable in the heat.
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  So she's open to trying stuff, right?
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  Rogan mentioned that fighter Elena Ngali, known for crazy
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  flexibility, highlights the different physical needs,
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  doesn't it? Absolutely.
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  And then there's the less glamorous side shin conditioning
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  that's huge for kickers. Oof yeah like hand conditioning
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  for boxers but for your shins must hurt at first.
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  She said it did. Feeling the impact after just a
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  few kicks really drove home that difference.
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  And then learning the Superman punch on the same day she was
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  shown it. Incredible, right?
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  Speaks volumes about her athleticism, her ability to just
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  absorb technique. So why Jackson winks
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  specifically more than just reputation?
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  It seems like it was very strategic.
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  She wanted a place focus on technique, on translating her
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  boxing IQ to MMA. She felt her strategy sometimes
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  got overlooked in boxing because her power was so obvious.
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  That makes sense. Looking for that deeper
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  technical coaching, right? And Jackson Wink has that
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  reputation for game planning. And this whole MMA idea wasn't
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  new, was it? Jon Jones apparently suggested
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  it years ago. Yeah, back in 2016 at the ESP
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  Wise, Yeah, Jones saw the potential early, and she was,
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  what, 25 when she talked to Rogan, aware of that window for
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  elite athleticism. That prime window, 2832, is
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  often mentioned, but she was hoping maybe even 26 for her.
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  You see young chimps like Tyson Jones.
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  Exactly. There's an urgency if you want
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  to compete at the highest level in multiple combat sports while
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  you're physically peaking. So she started training just
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  last December right before this chat and the schedule sounds
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  intense. 3 weeks on, one week off at first.
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  Initially, yeah. Then longer stretches of
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  Jackson, wink, just going home on weekends as the fight camp
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  ramped up. Serious dedication.
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  While still planning to box the ultimate goal.
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  Simultaneous champion in both. Which is, I mean, incredibly
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  ambitious, a monumental challenge.
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  But that's Claressa Shields. That's the level she operates
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  on. OK, let's shift gears a bit.
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  Her reflections on boxing itself.
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  She was not shy about her dominance.
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  Not at all that quote. Girls just can't fuck with me in
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  boxing. Pretty direct.
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  And she backed it up with stories, right?
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  Like getting knocked down but still winning.
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  Yeah, showed her resilience and the Christina Hammer fight where
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  she felt it should have been stopped sooner because Hammer
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  was taking too much punishment, it shows her perspective from
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  inside the ropes. The Laila Ali comparison came up
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  to how did she handle that? It felt like she respected Ali's
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  legacy but she was firmly focused on the active fighters,
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  on what she's doing now. Felt Ali's comments from
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  retirement were a bit dismissive.
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  Yeah, understandable. Respect the current generation.
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  And Speaking of different styles, the talk about Anne
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  Wolf. Whoa, yeah, Anne Wolf, the
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  trainer known for that super intense break you down then
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  build you up style. Very different from Shields
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  approach. She seems much more about
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  listening to her body. That story about the Olympic
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  Training Center. Refusing to Sprint through a
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  potential injury and getting fined $500.00 for it.
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  That tells you a lot about herself, awareness and sticking
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  to her guns. It really does.
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  It's about knowing your own limits, not just blindly
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  following orders, especially at that elite level.
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  Right. And that led into talking about
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  her first coach and how that relationship had to change as
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  she matured, needing more communication, more respect.
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  That one-size-fits-all coaching just doesn't work for everyone,
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  especially long term. Exactly.
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  The dynamic has to evolve. It becomes more collaborative.
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  And as her career grew, the need for an entourage, a whole
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  support system, it's not just about the fighting anymore.
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  Absolutely critical logistics promotion business.
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  You need people. But she also acknowledged
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  managing that team is its own challenge.
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  Which brought them to Floyd Mayweather, The ultimate example
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  of career management, maybe. You could argue that his team,
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  his defensive evolution over time, the undefeated record
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  taking minimal damage and making a billion dollars.
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  The business side is undeniable. They talked about the timing of
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  the Pacquiao fight too, right after the Marquez KO.
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  Yeah, highlighting his strategic genius.
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  Or maybe cleverness, waiting for the right moment, maximizing his
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  advantage both in the ring and financially.
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  It's a master class in the business of boxing.
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  But that business side hasn't always served women's boxing
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  well, which was a major topic. Oh, it's definitely the lack of
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  consistent promotion, the opportunities compared to men's
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  boxing or even MMA. She listed so many talented
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  women. Kristy Martin, Lucia Riker and
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  Wolf herself as a fighter. Kalisha W, Amanda Serrano, Katie
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  Taylor Names People should know better.
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  Right. And she feels her higher profile
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  comes from the Olympics, TV exposure, but also her own
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  efforts. She's had to be proactive.
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  Calling fighters out. Showing up at MMA events, she
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  even questioned if expecting female fighters to be too
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  ladylike. Hertz Promotion.
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  It's a fascinating point. Does that expectation clash with
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  the kind of hype and, frankly, trash talk that often sells
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  fights in male combat sports? And then the pay disparity, that
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  must be incredibly frustrating. Yeah, she mentioned her fight
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  sometimes getting better ratings than male fighters who earn way,
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  way more, and the lack of transparency around pay.
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  She even talked about conversations with Showtime
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  execs with the WBC, asking why female champs weren't in
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  commercials pushing for change. You get the sense she feels a
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  real responsibility as the face of women boxing to drive that
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  change. It's not just about her own
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  career. Her PPV experience, while maybe
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  not huge numbers initially, seemed to raise her profile
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  because of the stakes, the betting aspect.
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  It seems like it moving to PPV signals a certain level attracts
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  a different kind of attention, maybe more gambling interest,
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  which boosts visibility online. She saw her social media grow.
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  But you could feel the frustration to having to spend
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  energy on promotion when she just wants to fight.
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  Yeah, that advice from Andre Darrell seemed to stick with
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  her, that she has to be part of making women's boxing equal,
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  even if it's not what she'd rather be doing.
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  This heavy burden. OK, so back to the MMA
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  transition. The PFL offer came because of
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  inactivity in boxing. That was a big part of it, yeah.
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  Boxing wasn't keeping her active enough, and PFL came with a
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  serious, lucrative offer. Interestingly, UFC and Bellator
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  had different initial takes. Right.
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  UFC considered the Nunez fight, which she felt was way too soon,
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  and Bellator thought she was too clean of a boxer.
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  Strange feedback, right? But it shows how different
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  organizations might view a crossover star.
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  PFL seemed like the best fit at the time.
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  A three-year deal, stipend included.
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  That's security, and PFL has been signing big names.
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  Anthony Pettis, Rory MacDonald. Yeah, building a roster.
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  And then there's the Kayla Harrison angle.
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  That's huge. 22 time Olympic gold medalist, same weight
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  class, eventually judo versus boxing.
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  That's a promoter's dream. Massive potential and Shields is
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  smart about it. She knows she can't just box
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  Harrison. She needs the whole MMA game.
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  She seems realistic about the timeline.
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  Two, maybe entering the PFL tournament in 2022.
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  Not rushing it, yeah. Respecting the process,
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  respecting the sport, not just assuming her.
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  Boxing carries her all the way immediately.
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  And she is still boxing alongside this MMA training
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  right though MMA was the priority leading up to that
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  first fight in June. Exactly balancing both, but the
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  immediate focus was getting ready for that MMA debut.
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  They kept the opponent and date under wraps.
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  Standard stuff. Did she talk about feeling
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  nervous starting out? It's good to hear even champs
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  feel that. Oh yeah, she was open about the
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  anxiety venturing into the unknown, and Jon Jones was
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  apparently a big help connecting her with Jackson Wink being
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  supportive early on. She called them twins.
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  That's cool. And her first day grappling the
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  What the fuck am I doing here? Apparently she literally said it
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  out loud and Misha Tate was there and just kind of laughed
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  reassuringly. It sounds like Coach Jackson
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  immediately zeroed in on the ground game.
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  Her biggest weakness? Smart coaching address the
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  biggest gap first. Definitely.
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  And Despite that initial shock, she seems to have found her
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  footing quickly, learning fast. Even on the ground, what was her
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  focus there? Using her legs, creating space,
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  smart defensive tactics for a striker on their back shows
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  she's thinking strategically. It really does understanding
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  strengths, weaknesses, how to learn this new game.
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  But no plans for pure grappling tournaments yet.
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  No, she said. Her focus is purely on MMA
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  application. How does wrestling or jiu jitsu
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  work in a fight? Not an isolation, Very
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  pragmatic. Makes sense and rolling with her
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  BJJ coach she moving from just defense to trying some offense.
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  Yeah, progress. But she also noted the cardio
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  difference. MMA rounds with the grappling,
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  the constant pressure. It's a different kind of tired
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  than boxing. Different engine needed.
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  Has she done live MMA sparring yet?
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  Not full live BJJ sparring with other fighters at that point,
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  but yes to kickboxing sparring, adapting to MMA, distance,
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  defending kicks. Huge priorities.
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  So that first PFL fight was set for June.
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  They were running simulations and training.
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  Yep, trying to replicate fight scenarios, integrate all the
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  skills under pressure. Crucial preparation.
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  She said something powerful too, didn't she, about why she made
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  the switch. Yeah, basically if women's
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  boxing got the attention and promotion MMA does, she probably
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  wouldn't have left. Boxing is her first love.
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  MMA is about adding to the legacy.
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  That really puts the state of women's boxing into perspective.
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  What about boxing Amanda Nunez? She seemed confident there.
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  Very confident, believed she'd win easily even at Nunez's
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  weight in boxing, again emphasizing the difference
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  between the sports. And her own weight cutting.
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  She has limits. Sounds like 147 was maybe her
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  lowest but she wants to maintain her physique.
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  Important point. She's conscious of the health
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  aspects and, as she said, prioritizing her physique as a
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  woman. Did she seem frustrated by how
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  MMA fighters boxing skills sometimes get hyped up compared
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  to her own boxing credentials? A little bit, yeah.
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  You can sense some frustration that her deep boxing background
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  maybe wasn't always given its full weight compared to someone
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  crossing over to boxing. Understandable.
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  Is she excited about the small MMA gloves though?
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  Oh. Yeah, 4 oz versus boxing gloves.
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  She seemed keen to see what her power feels like with those.
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  Talk about power. Her strength training sounds
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  intense. 185 bench press. Pretty solid, focusing on
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  functional strengths, triceps, shoulders, core, her
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  boyfriend's. A trainer helps with that.
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  She felt stronger, but also careful not to lose speed.
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  Right that balance is key and adapting conditioning for MMA,
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  burpees, get UPS, kettle bells. All that stuff plus running,
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  jump rope, those MMA simulations.
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  She trusts her own experience but also got invited to train
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  with Holly Holm. Another successful boxing to MMA
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  transitioner. Smart connection.
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  Diet wise, she's got help. Perfecting athletes same people
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  who work with newness using supplements like melatonin for
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  sleep, some pre workout glutamine, B12 and a sleep ring
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  to track recovery. Very dialed in, even aware of
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  phone addiction affecting sleep. Shows the level of detail
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  required at the top. She also opened up personally
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  about valuing loyalty, trust, respect, being more emotional
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  than people think. And wishing negative words
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  didn't affect her so much. Rogan had an interesting take on
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  that right linking her intensity to her success.
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  Yes, suggesting that emotional drive is part of what makes her
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  a champion, but also touching on the loneliness at the top,
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  finding people on the same caliber.
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  That challenge of finding your tribe when you're operating at
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  that level, dealing with jealousy, negativity, managing
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  expectations from family, friends, that's a lot.
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  And her competitive fire, just hating to lose, that clearly
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  fuels her. She uses the doubters too, like
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  Eddie Hun's comments about an old amateur rival.
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  Sought partly as promotion but also motivation.
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  Like, OK, pay me enough and I'll prove you wrong.
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  She's savvy about the boxing world.
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  Knows the promoter game. Mentioned Don King being careful
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  with contracts. How did she see MMA promoters
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  like Dana White in comparison? Didn't go super deep but implied
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  maybe a different dynamic or reputation, though still needing
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  caution. Business is business.
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  So UFC down the road, maybe after the PFL deal.
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  That seemed to be the long term thought.
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  Focus on PFL for three years, get that MMA experience, then
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  maybe revisit A Nunez fight. She respects Nunez MMA game too
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  much to rush it. And she's aware of the James
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  Tony situation, right? The unsuccessful boxing
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  crossover. Definitely.
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  She specifically mentioned wanting to avoid that by
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  genuinely respecting and learning MMA, not just relying
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  on boxing. Smart.
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  She sparred Cyborg too before the Nunez fight.
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  Yeah your prior since Cyborg was strong, could be good at boxing
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  with focus training, cyborgs, toughness and Muay Thai too.
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  Provides good context. Bellator was interested too,
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  maybe at 145, though she prefers 155, right?
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  PFL 155 felt like the right fit for now.
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  The idea of UFC creating a 155 division came up.
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  Hypothetically, weight cuts are tough.
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  Especially for female fighters, Yeah, it all paints a picture of
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  someone navigating a complex landscape.
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  Absolutely. Weight classes, promotions,
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  skill sets. But her excitement for the MMA
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  journey, her ambition, that really shone through.
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  This whole conversation with Rogan was just a fascinating
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  look inside the mind of a truly elite athlete stepping way
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  outside her comfort zone. Totally.
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  Her dedication to learning MMA, her boxing background, her sharp
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  takes on the fight business, it makes her journey 1 you really
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  have to watch. Yeah, from the training details
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  to the promotional battles to just the psychology of it all,
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  it's a unique perspective. Anyone interested in combat
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  sports? Peak performance?
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  What drives the absolute best? This conversation offered so
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  much. So thinking about it all, what
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  really resonated most with you about her approach and how
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  curious are you to see those boxing skills translate fully in
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  the cage? It definitely leaves you
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  thinking, doesn't it, about the future of women's combat sports,
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  the unique challenges these athletes face.
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  It's a complex world. For sure, if you want even more
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  detail, we definitely recommend listening to the full episode on
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  the Joe Rogan Experience. It's a compelling listen.