Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Behind the Scenes of Parenthood: Unmasking the Phantom of Perfectionism | Ep. 108

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Behind the Scenes of Parenthood: Unmasking the Phantom of Perfectionism | Ep. 108 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  Hello, wonderful parents.
• 0:08
  I'm Cheryl Lange, your host, and I'm delighted to welcome you to another episode of the Parenting Podcast.
• 0:15
  Today, our recording team dives deeper into our current series on parental burnout and stress.
• 0:22
  It's more than just recognizing these challenges.
• 0:26
  It's about understanding their roots.
• 0:29
  It's not about escaping parenting, but being healthier in it.
• 0:35
  As we explore this complicated aspect of parenting, listen in as we shine a light on the trap of the phantom of perfectionism.
• 0:44
  And, oh, and a bit of a spoiler alert, the unexpected antidote to burnout, the transformative power of grace.
• 0:56
  Let's join the conversation.
• 1:07
  Well, here we are again, all of us back in the studio, you know, Ellen, we missed you.
• 1:12
  We need you.
• 1:13
  Oh, thank you.
• 1:15
  Ellen: I was just freezing to death prior.
• 1:18
  Cheryl: It's been so cold.
• 1:20
  Cheryl: So those of you who've been listening to us, we are in the middle of a series.
• 1:25
  Cheryl: Um, on parental burnout and stress.
• 1:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:28
  Cheryl: And we decided to do this because we remember being parentally burned out and stressed.
• 1:34
  Cheryl: This is the third installment And so we talked about, um, some, what it might look like, some of the, signs, burned out Yeah.
• 1:44
  Cheryl: You know, like, I thought we might start out sort of like a medical diagnosis.
• 1:48
  Cheryl: We have to know what the symptoms are, you know, and that would be the first thing.
• 1:51
  Cheryl: You go in, doctor, well, my elbow hurts and I've got a rash on my face.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: So we just talked a little bit about signs and symptoms.
• 1:59
  Cheryl: And then last week we talked about Again, what the sources might be.
• 2:02
  Cheryl: So yeah, go back to the doctor analogy.
• 2:05
  Cheryl: Oh, well, I think you've got a, you know, a virus or your nerve isn't working right.
• 2:12
  Cheryl: And so they begin to look at what the source might be.
• 2:15
  Cheryl: And now we're getting to the part that we really all want to do is so then what do we do?
• 2:19
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 2:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:20
  Ellen: Yeah, yeah, I know.
• 2:21
  Ellen: I'm a really practical person and I kind of like steps of what should I do?
• 2:26
  Ellen: How do I do it?
• 2:27
  Ellen: You know, because I can get everything I'm being told, but then I'm like, Oh, how do I fix that?
• 2:32
  Christie: What do I do now?
• 2:33
  Christie: Right.
• 2:33
  Cheryl: I know.
• 2:34
  Cheryl: So I've really been looking forward to this because I'm the same Oh, I hear all that.
• 2:37
  Cheryl: So what do I do with it?
• 2:39
  Cheryl: Like doctor?
• 2:39
  Cheryl: So what do I do?
• 2:40
  Cheryl: My shoulder's got a nerve issue.
• 2:42
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:42
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:42
  Cheryl: So that's kind of, we're going to talk about some ideas and call me in the morning.
• 2:48
  Cheryl: Oh, that it was so easy.
• 2:51
  Cheryl: Wouldn't that be nice?
• 2:52
  Christie: Okay.
• 2:52
  Christie: So it's really funny that we're talking about all this this morning.
• 2:57
  Christie: So I re redid my, my phone updated and gives you new sounds and all this, all the new things.
• 3:03
  Christie: I'm like, Oh, I must.
• 3:04
  Christie: So I read my alarms and so now my, my wake up alarm sounds different, has a different tone.
• 3:11
  Christie: So this morning my alarm's going off and I thought, Oh, that's not for me.
• 3:17
  Christie: That doesn't apply.
• 3:18
  Christie: That's somebody else's alarm.
• 3:20
  Christie: And it's just blaring over there.
• 3:22
  Christie: I just sleep through it because I have this ability to selectively listen to what I need to listen to.
• 3:30
  Christie: And so as we're, as we're preparing and talking about, you know, solutions for, for burnout or things to, I realized that's something I think I got from fighting burnout when my kids were young.
• 3:43
  Christie: What?
• 3:43
  Christie: How?
• 3:43
  Christie: Well, you know, sometimes I'd have, I'd have, you know, friends over with their kids for a play date or something and it might be a first time mom.
• 3:51
  Christie: Mm hmm.
• 3:51
  Christie: And we'd hear these.
• 3:52
  Christie: Shrieking sound For us, so I'm used to knowing what sound to listen to and rush to And so you learn.
• 4:03
  Christie: Oh That's not my baby crying.
• 4:05
  Christie: I don't I care about that or that's not a noise I need to worry about because otherwise You'd be running for every single whim and whimper of your kids and everyone else's kids and that's true.
• 4:16
  Christie: And so I think I learned how to tune out noises that don't apply to me, which did not serve me well this morning with the alarm because I did need to listen to that.
• 4:27
  Christie: But it just got me thinking about, it was kind of a self protective mechanism that I've developed over the years of of parenting where there's so much that needs attention.
• 4:38
  Christie: Sometimes it's good to tune out the things that don't need your attention urgently.
• 4:42
  Christie: And that's it, to have that correct dial.
• 4:44
  Christie: Yeah, I just wasn't assessing appropriately.
• 4:46
  Christie: Well, it
• 4:47
  Ellen: seems like men, and I'm not picking on them, but it seems like men have a really good ability to do that.
• 4:51
  Ellen: Yes.
• 4:51
  Ellen: Yes.
• 4:52
  Ellen: Because I can always remember, I'd be in the kitchen cooking, and the kids are screeching and hollering, and my husband's sitting there.
• 4:59
  Ellen: And he doesn't even notice.
• 5:01
  Ellen: And I have to come out of the kitchen and go, Aren't you paying attention
• 5:05
  Christie: to what's going on?
• 5:06
  Christie: Huh?
• 5:06
  Christie: Right.
• 5:08
  Cheryl: It's so true.
• 5:10
  Cheryl: Well, bill is phlegmatic.
• 5:11
  Cheryl: Much more phlegmatic than I.
• 5:13
  Cheryl: And so he said, Honey, I'll be glad to get up with the new baby at night.
• 5:18
  Cheryl: And I go, This is great.
• 5:19
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 5:20
  Cheryl: Well, the problem is baby
• 5:22
  Cheryl (2): goes peep or wah My alarm is not toned down.
• 5:26
  Cheryl (2): It's high alarm.
• 5:27
  Cheryl (2): I hear the first peep and I would have to wake up so much to wake him
• 5:33
  Christie: up.
• 5:35
  Ellen: So
• 5:38
  Cheryl: it's so funny, but what you're talking about is a really Actually appropriate to the whole issue of the balance of what to do with stressors or alarms or are inside of us.
• 5:56
  Cheryl: Is this something, my alarm's going off inside and just everything.
• 6:02
  Cheryl: You know, we're not medical doctors or PhDs, but What about, um, what are some ideas y'all have for if someone says, yeah, I recognize I'm pretty burned out, or they don't want to get there, you know, preventative, so either curative or preventative.
• 6:18
  Cheryl: What are some ideas or things you would offer that you've seen worked in your life or somewhere else?
• 6:24
  Christie: Well, I think the first thing we have to realize is the circumstances might not change.
• 6:29
  Christie: Like, we still have these children, and so it's not like you're, your first step, if, if the problem were, you know, a job or a home, you could probably, you know, make some plans to change the circumstances, but since we're talking about our children, they're not going anywhere for a minute, so I think it has to start with small changes.
• 6:52
  Christie: That are sustainable, you know, things that you can change in your daily life or your regular rhythms that can bring some relief.
• 7:01
  Christie: And, you know, for me, sometimes it's just carving out 15 minutes a day to drink a cup of tea on my own.
• 7:09
  Christie: Yeah.
• 7:10
  Christie: You know, and maybe that 15 minutes doesn't happen very consistently, but it's my goal to get just a little bit of mind space where I can escape and think my own thoughts and have my own, you know, articulations and not be, you know, fixing a toy or finding a shoe or just a mental space.
• 7:32
  Christie: I like that,
• 7:32
  Cheryl: Christy, because Everybody wants the quick fix.
• 7:36
  Cheryl: And certainly I'm looking at my iPhone right now because of this digital age.
• 7:41
  Cheryl: We all want the quick fix, you know, updating your phone.
• 7:45
  Cheryl: Come on, let's fix this And what you kind of said was a mindset.
• 7:49
  Cheryl: That I need to change my mindset about how I view the totality of my life and not escaping, but how to get healthier.
• 7:58
  Cheryl: Maybe that's it.
• 7:59
  Cheryl: This is not how to escape parenting, but be healthier in
• 8:04
  Christie: it.
• 8:04
  Christie: Some relief.
• 8:06
  Christie: From the monotony of everything to be able to not escape for the sake of escaping, but escape to tend to the, your own personal needs.
• 8:14
  Christie: I remember in one really challenging season, I didn't even know how bad things were.
• 8:19
  Christie: I didn't know how visible it was on my face.
• 8:20
  Christie: And I, I remember seeing you somewhere and you, you caught on real quickly.
• 8:26
  Christie: Things were not well at the Dental Home and I remember you suggested to me to walk out my front door and walk.
• 8:33
  Christie: Seven minutes one way on the street and turn around and walk seven minutes back and you said 15 minutes of sunshine will help a lot and I did that and it that season that nothing changed.
• 8:44
  Christie: That was still a very, very challenging season in our family, but that's that little bit of sunshine gave me.
• 8:51
  Christie: And I'm going to take a minute to catch my breath and re evaluate and remember why I'm doing this and the beauty of the whole thing.
• 8:57
  Christie: Kind of reset
• 8:58
  Ellen: your thoughts and reset
• 9:00
  Christie: your mind.
• 9:00
  Christie: And so just those small things if you, you know, maybe it's a once a week thing you can look forward to in a certain
• 9:05
  Cheryl: season.
• 9:06
  Cheryl: It's so interesting.
• 9:07
  Cheryl: I'm really smiling because I don't remember that.
• 9:09
  Christie: Oh, that's funny.
• 9:10
  Christie: I'm really thankful.
• 9:10
  Christie: It was great
• 9:11
  Cheryl: advice.
• 9:11
  Cheryl: Because that was the advice I was going to go to next is in my life.
• 9:16
  Cheryl: That's what I started doing when it was was in a pressure cooker and I wasn't doing well and I was in stress and burnout is literally saying, I'll be back in 15 minutes.
• 9:28
  Cheryl: And that's what I did as I walked, sat under the trees.
• 9:31
  Cheryl: And good, I passed on good advice.
• 9:35
  Cheryl: And
• 9:35
  Ellen: that doesn't, of course, work if you have really little kids.
• 9:37
  Ellen: We're talking about that.
• 9:38
  Ellen: I know everybody knows that.
• 9:40
  Ellen: But, you know, that's, that's a big burnout areas, bunch of little small children and just dealing with all of the noise.
• 9:48
  Ellen: I think one of the important things is to recognize within yourself where you feel like, okay, I'm burning out, I am getting really close to the edge here.
• 9:57
  Ellen: Self awareness.
• 9:58
  Ellen: Yeah, I think that's because sometimes all of a sudden you realize, why am I yelling at everybody?
• 10:03
  Ellen: Well, that was a 10 minute ago thought.
• 10:06
  Ellen: I should have said 10 minutes ago, I need to go back to my room, sit, sit in there, take a couple deep breaths, take a, shut my eyes, relax, whatever you do that helps you kind of reset so you can go back out.
• 10:20
  Cheryl: So even if you have little children, right, you just get them safe.
• 10:23
  Cheryl: But yes, you know, you had mentioned before, like when you had kids and mom's day out, And I know, I see it in my daughters, I've heard it in other moms with little ones.
• 10:35
  Cheryl: They get the little ones in a situation where they don't have to watch them, and then they work harder.
• 10:41
  Cheryl: And so, let me encourage you, that if you can't go walking down the street, when they're taking their nap, you do something for your mental break, because you can't always go to the Caribbean, but you can.
• 10:53
  Cheryl: Do whatever it is that
• 10:55
  Christie: refreshes you.
• 10:55
  Christie: Well, and you may even have to, like you said, when you have young children, if you're, you're single parenting or if you're just alone, you know, if your partner is working a lot or whatever, you may have to include the children in that moment.
• 11:08
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:08
  Christie: And they may have to go on the walk with you.
• 11:10
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:11
  Christie: But I think just, Giving yourself something that is, is bringing you some joy and you know, like I was talking to my daughter who nannies the other day and she was sitting coloring with her, her kids and she said, you know, I found myself drawing for myself like I was sitting there with the kids, but it was a challenging day and, and she said, I'm, I'm drawing for myself in this moment and they think we're doing this activity together, which we are, but she had a little moment of joy herself in that, in that setting and I thought that's exactly what it is.
• 11:44
  Christie: It's a small little Mental escapes to re centering yourself.
• 11:48
  Christie: Well,
• 11:48
  Cheryl: and I remember, because exactly the same thing you were saying, for yourself, to go for the walk, not going, and let me talk to you about the trees other day, and engaging with them, but drinking it in myself.
• 12:02
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:03
  Cheryl: This is not a selfish thing.
• 12:04
  Cheryl: This is an appropriate thing.
• 12:06
  Ellen: Yes
• 12:07
  Cheryl: also Disconnect, disconnect from devices and take an electronic vacation as well.
• 12:13
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 12:14
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:14
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 12:15
  Cheryl: Because that doesn't help us to regroup.
• 12:19
  Cheryl: Because we don't want to distract ourselves.
• 12:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:22
  Cheryl: We want to heal.
• 12:24
  Cheryl: And so, healing.
• 12:26
  Cheryl: It includes having a mental space in your mind and you know there are times when I drive in the car and I love classical music, I love a good podcast, I love teaching, I like good books, but there are a lot of times where I just don't want any noise and you know I'm just driving somewhere to pick somebody up or go somewhere and I would just have No noise.
• 12:51
  Cheryl: Right, right.
• 12:52
  Cheryl: So I could just be refreshed
• 12:54
  Ellen: you know.
• 12:54
  Ellen: Because noise, any kind, even good kind, requires a response.
• 12:58
  Ellen: That's true.
• 12:59
  Ellen: And you're trying to be in a place where you don't have to respond to everything.
• 13:02
  Ellen: Where you can just decompress and let everything go.
• 13:05
  Ellen: If you're listening to a good book, you get engaged.
• 13:07
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 13:08
  Ellen: If you're listening to some really good music, it can be very helpful, but you're still
• 13:11
  Christie: really engaged, right?
• 13:12
  Christie: And it's still input.
• 13:14
  Christie: Yes, that's not a break from all the input of all the children.
• 13:18
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 13:18
  Ellen: Yeah, it gives you time to pray, just getting away and getting some time to do that can be just really healing and refreshing.
• 13:25
  Ellen: Even if it's in your
• 13:26
  Cheryl: kitchen.
• 13:26
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 13:27
  Christie: Right.
• 13:28
  Christie: You know, Cheryl, you mentioned digital world and taking a little break from that.
• 13:34
  Christie: I think.
• 13:35
  Christie: And this will be nothing new that we haven't all heard, but it's good to say it again.
• 13:41
  Christie: The social media world just continues to feed our minds with this perfection, the standard of perfection.
• 13:48
  Christie: And I think if we could get to normalization of imperfection and realize it is never going to be perfect.
• 13:58
  Christie: I mean, those videos of like the plexiglass containers for your eggs and your cans and your.
• 14:05
  Christie: Boxes, everything, you can get it all on Amazon and have everything completely organized.
• 14:09
  Christie: Why don't we?
• 14:10
  Christie: Because life's not perfect.
• 14:11
  Christie: Right.
• 14:12
  Christie: Some people do.
• 14:12
  Christie: I've been in their kitchen.
• 14:13
  Christie: But real life is imperfect and as soon as you can lower Your expectations of what of yourself and of life.
• 14:25
  Christie: I think we have a lot more contentment and we don't Spiral as quickly.
• 14:31
  Christie: I
• 14:31
  Cheryl: know I'm really hearing you.
• 14:33
  Cheryl: I love that phrase Why don't we normalize?
• 14:36
  Cheryl: imperfection because We are so challenged.
• 14:39
  Cheryl: Here's how you're a leader.
• 14:41
  Cheryl: Do these seven things.
• 14:42
  Cheryl: Here's how to be a better mother.
• 14:43
  Cheryl: Here's how you can do this.
• 14:44
  Cheryl: Have your whole world
• 14:45
  Ellen: together.
• 14:46
  Ellen: Being a better mom in five easy steps, right?
• 14:49
  Cheryl: For everything.
• 14:49
  Cheryl: Here's how to get healthy.
• 14:50
  Cheryl: Here's how to, here's how, here's how, here's how.
• 14:52
  Cheryl: Okay, and not, not normalize imperfection means be shoddy, or do a bad job or don't care, but realize.
• 15:03
  Cheryl: Imperfection is the way it is, and you mentioned the word expectation, see, the expectation, if I just work harder, if I do more, if I read this, if I do that, if I get the right bins from Amazon, and if I get the right education for my children, reading the right books, thinking the right things, praying the right prayers, whatever it is, I'm going to get to this, this perfection thing, instead of saying embrace imperfection, right?
• 15:31
  Cheryl: and work hard with an imperfect life.
• 15:34
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 15:35
  Ellen: But usually I think one of the red flags is, and I know this happened to me, I wouldn't consider myself a perfectionist, but I have areas of perfectionism.
• 15:45
  Ellen: Yes.
• 15:45
  Ellen: And it has to do in relationships.
• 15:47
  Ellen: I want my relationships to be really perfect.
• 15:51
  Ellen: Guilty as charged.
• 15:51
  Ellen: You know, so if you looked at me, you wouldn't go, Oh, Ellen's a perfectionist.
• 15:55
  Ellen: Cause I'm not, you know, my.
• 15:56
  Ellen: Stuff can be messy or whatever it is.
• 15:59
  Ellen: I don't pay attention to a lot of details, but I want all the relationships in my life to be good and healthy and happy and everything's going well.
• 16:07
  Ellen: And so sometimes, well, you might have ask a spouse or a friend or our parents or whatever.
• 16:13
  Ellen: Do you think I have a problem with perfectionism?
• 16:15
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:17
  Christie: Someone you love
• 16:19
  Ellen: and trust.
• 16:20
  Ellen: I'll really give you the, give you truth.
• 16:22
  Ellen: Because I think sometimes if you would have said to me, You're being a perfectionist.
• 16:26
  Ellen: I'm not a perfectionist.
• 16:28
  Christie: Well, and I think my language is coded in a way that helps me to lie to myself.
• 16:33
  Christie: And not think I'm trying to be perfect.
• 16:35
  Christie: I'll say, you know, I just, good moms do this.
• 16:38
  Christie: Normal moms do this.
• 16:41
  Christie: Or healthy moms do this.
• 16:42
  Christie: I think some of those words that we We kind of soften the word perfection.
• 16:47
  Christie: We wouldn't probably verbalize, I'm trying to be perfect, but it really is sometimes hidden behind other words.
• 16:54
  Christie: The phantom
• 16:55
  Ellen: mother in my head does everything really well.
• 17:00
  Cheryl: You know Ellen, when you were saying that and I was listening to you.
• 17:03
  Cheryl: Wow, I wish I had had the self awareness and the wisdom to ask you 10 and 15 years ago, Ellen, do you think I'm a perfectionist?
• 17:13
  Cheryl: Because I would say not at all.
• 17:14
  Cheryl: Look how sloppy this is and open my pantry, you know, it's not yours is alphabetized.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: Mine is not.
• 17:20
  Cheryl: All of that.
• 17:21
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:22
  Cheryl: But it's perfectionism in relationships, and that standard, perfection, was the standard that I knew I would never hit, therefore I had so much stress, and was unhealthy.
• 17:34
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:35
  Cheryl: Because you never quit.
• 17:38
  Cheryl: Because it's insidious.
• 17:39
  Ellen: It sure is.
• 17:40
  Ellen: I think you kind of touched on it, Christy.
• 17:43
  Ellen: You're saying to yourself, this is normal parenting.
• 17:45
  Ellen: This is what I should do to be a good parent.
• 17:48
  Ellen: And it may not be.
• 17:50
  Ellen: Maybe you're just striving for perfection.
• 17:53
  Ellen: And, of course, when we try to get perfection from other people, we're always going to be on the losing end.
• 17:58
  Ellen: Right.
• 17:59
  Christie: It's just not going to happen.
• 18:00
  Christie: It really is an idol of self.
• 18:02
  Christie: We, we want to be the hero in their story.
• 18:05
  Christie: We want to not disappoint our kids.
• 18:07
  Christie: We want them to think highly of us and them to not have any, you know, not to have any shortcomings that would affect them in a negative way.
• 18:15
  Christie: Right.
• 18:16
  Christie: And then, but it's that reality that, I mean, we're all going to disappoint one another in one way or another in their lives.
• 18:23
  Christie: They're going to have disappointment.
• 18:24
  Christie: They're going to have to navigate.
• 18:25
  Christie: And my pride doesn't want to be the one that causes that for them.
• 18:29
  Christie: Right.
• 18:30
  Cheryl: And what we're saying The visual imagery I'm having is a treadmill, a performance treadmill, because with the treadmill, the faster you go, it'll just go faster and faster and faster you never get anywhere.
• 18:43
  Cheryl: Yeah, you never fall off on your face, right?
• 18:48
  Cheryl: Oh, you know, maybe we should form a group called, um, you know, Say No to the Cult of Perfect Parenting, or I Don't Know Something.
• 19:00
  Cheryl: We do that because that's, it is sort of a I'm an imperfect perfectionist.
• 19:05
  Christie: I'm imperfect perfectly.
• 19:07
  Christie: Yeah,
• 19:07
  Cheryl: that's a good one, yeah.
• 19:09
  Cheryl: That's true.
• 19:11
  Christie: you know, Alan, you talked about asking a spouse or a close friend to kind of help you become more self aware and help you assess on your perfectionism.
• 19:20
  Christie: I think another thing about having people in your life that are close to you can be helping us refocus on our values in parenting.
• 19:30
  Christie: That's true.
• 19:30
  Christie: That's good.
• 19:32
  Christie: Reassess, okay, why did I get into this gig in the first place?
• 19:36
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:36
  Christie: Very good.
• 19:37
  Christie: And what are the things that I'm aiming to do for my kids?
• 19:41
  Christie: You know, what do I want to offer?
• 19:43
  Christie: And when we have, like I say, their spouse or a like minded friend that can refocus on, okay, remember, you know.
• 19:50
  Christie: Because I remember nap time and bedtime, you just walk in and you see sleeping babies.
• 19:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:54
  Christie: And you're like, oh, how could I have ever gotten upset with you?
• 19:57
  Christie: You want to wake them up when they're asleep.
• 19:58
  Christie: Yes.
• 19:59
  Christie: And those are the moments.
• 20:00
  Christie: that I would remember why I love being their mom.
• 20:04
  Christie: And so having someone to say, okay, it was a hard day or it's been a hard month or it's a hard year, but eventually they're going to be out of diapers or eventually they're going, you know, and, and remind you of, um, Just, just the importance.
• 20:20
  Christie: Giving you perspective.
• 20:20
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:21
  Ellen: You know, because we lose perspective, especially when we're striving for perfectionism.
• 20:25
  Ellen: There is no perspective.
• 20:26
  Ellen: Right.
• 20:26
  Ellen: It's true.
• 20:27
  Ellen: It's just, it's a drive.
• 20:28
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 20:29
  Ellen: Plus.
• 20:29
  Ellen: It has to be this
• 20:30
  Cheryl: way.
• 20:30
  Cheryl: You're right, Ellen, and both of y'all.
• 20:32
  Cheryl: Because when you're on that treadmill trying to get that perfection, you kind of cope by giving up and going, who cares?
• 20:40
  Cheryl: I'm just, I can't do this anymore.
• 20:42
  Cheryl: And we need to reorient ourself off that perfection treadmill to what we care about.
• 20:50
  Cheryl: The big picture, Yeah.
• 20:51
  Cheryl: you know, here at TPP, we're always saying, keep that big picture in front of you.
• 20:56
  Cheryl: Keep the long game in front of you.
• 20:59
  Cheryl: And in the short game, particularly as we're trying to heal ourselves from the burnout and become healthier inside of ourselves regardless of our circumstances.
• 21:10
  Cheryl: Keep remembering why you're doing what you're doing.
• 21:13
  Cheryl: You know, the long game instead of more diapers, more this.
• 21:19
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:20
  Ellen: You know, and I think that if you have internally, if you, you know, are a person of faith and you have a Bible, that you kind of use, cling to that.
• 21:30
  Ellen: Remind yourself, if that doesn't help you, you can always find mottos.
• 21:34
  Ellen: They're all over the internet, but something that kind of brings you back to, okay, I don't need to be perfect.
• 21:40
  Ellen: We just have to get through this
• 21:42
  Christie: Well, yeah, it refocuses you.
• 21:43
  Christie: Like you said, the big picture perspective, and I think another way to do that is not just to have your spouse or friend, but I'll just give props to you ladies, like have people in your life who have gone the journey ahead of you that have real long term perspective.
• 21:59
  Christie: And that's what you guys have been to me and saying.
• 22:03
  Christie: It really is true that you're saying have old friends, wise friends, seniors, but really, I mean, it brings so much perspective, so much joy knowing, okay, other people have survived the race and made it to the finish line
• 22:21
  Ellen: and saw things that maybe I don't see right now, right?
• 22:24
  Ellen: Because I know I had a lot of older women in my life that were probably my age.
• 22:29
  Ellen: Now, And that was so helpful because I could go to them and just go, what am I doing wrong?
• 22:34
  Ellen: And they would just kind of smile, you're not doing anything wrong.
• 22:37
  Ellen: This
• 22:37
  Christie: is just
• 22:38
  Ellen: how it is.
• 22:38
  Ellen: Yeah.
• 22:38
  Ellen: You know, and I think also if you come from a broken or dysfunctional home of origin.
• 22:45
  Ellen: Then you kind of make these fantasies of what you think parenting and marriage and all these other things should be.
• 22:53
  Ellen: And because that's all you know is what's in your head or the bad side.
• 22:57
  Ellen: So you kind of make these things up and you, you don't realize, no, that's never going to happen.
• 23:01
  Ellen: That's perfectionism.
• 23:03
  Ellen: So having people who are a little older or farther along in the timeline of raising children can really help you see, oh, that's not realistic, Ellen.
• 23:11
  Ellen: It's not?
• 23:12
  Ellen: Oh,
• 23:12
  Christie: okay.
• 23:13
  Christie: I thought that was normal.
• 23:14
  Christie: Well, and having someone tell you you're not doing anything wrong, I can't hold.
• 23:18
  Christie: Because sometimes that's the heaviest weight is, am I causing this problem?
• 23:23
  Christie: And once, once I've heard, you know, no, this is normal, it alleviates.
• 23:28
  Christie: so much.
• 23:29
  Christie: I'm like, okay, I can do anything for a little while as long as I know that I'm not contributing, contributing to the madness.
• 23:35
  Christie: Right.
• 23:36
  Christie: And that's not on my shoulders.
• 23:37
  Cheryl: And see, it is that big picture because what we want to do here at the Parenting Podcast is normalize imperfection in parenting.
• 23:46
  Cheryl: And what is the last line we say every single time?
• 23:50
  Cheryl: It's worth it.
• 23:51
  Cheryl: Right.
• 23:52
  Cheryl: Okay, that this parenting is worth investing in.
• 23:56
  Cheryl: It's worth our lives.
• 23:57
  Cheryl: It's worth doing it, but we want to do it in a healthy way.
• 24:01
  Cheryl: So we don't burn out and we're healthy.
• 24:04
  Cheryl: And we're
• 24:04
  Ellen: growing up while our children are young.
• 24:06
  Ellen: Yes.
• 24:07
  Ellen: You know, I mean, we're learning as we go.
• 24:09
  Ellen: Right.
• 24:10
  Ellen: And that's, that's the double edged sword of it all.
• 24:13
  Ellen: It's
• 24:13
  Christie: just kind of hard.
• 24:14
  Christie: You know, my kids are now all pretty, almost all of them are pretty close to the ages I had each of them at.
• 24:22
  Christie: Yeah, that's true.
• 24:23
  Christie: And so looking at them at their ages, It's showing me how little compassion I had for myself.
• 24:31
  Christie: Yes.
• 24:31
  Christie: Like how little grace I was giving myself that I was yet a child myself having babies and seeing my daughters in their 20s, I'm like, oh, you know, you just have compassion on them at their season of life or all the mistakes they make and all the hard things they go through.
• 24:46
  Christie: And, and so, yeah, we really forget, like you said, we're growing up alongside our kids at all ages.
• 24:52
  Christie: At all ages.
• 24:52
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:53
  Cheryl: And so I would say, if I were prioritizing things, I would say, give grace to yourself, you know, that's just it.
• 25:02
  Cheryl: Because that's what
• 25:03
  Ellen: perfectionism takes away.
• 25:06
  Ellen: It takes away grace.
• 25:07
  Ellen: That is true.
• 25:08
  Ellen: You're right.
• 25:08
  Ellen: You know, because it just, it demands and demands and demands.
• 25:11
  Ellen: Oh, you got to go farther.
• 25:12
  Ellen: You're being a wimp.
• 25:13
  Ellen: Push into it.
• 25:14
  Ellen: Get up more
• 25:15
  Cheryl: stance later, do part.
• 25:17
  Cheryl: You know, yeah, you did a million things yesterday, but can't we do a million and ten today?
• 25:21
  Ellen: Grace says it's okay.
• 25:24
  Ellen: Stop and take a breath, take a rest, and it's going to be okay.
• 25:29
  Ellen: And I think we, if we will all understand, we will make mistakes.
• 25:33
  Ellen: We will, um, fail our children.
• 25:35
  Ellen: Yeah, we will fail our children and in adulthood that may affect them, but that's, that's the lineage of the human race.
• 25:42
  Ellen: You know, we just want to mitigate the damage as much as we can do by gaining more understanding of ourselves and of, of God and, and what we believe in.
• 25:52
  Ellen: And work on that because we will do things wrong and our kids will go, Oh, my mom used to do it.
• 25:57
  Ellen: This drove me nuts.
• 25:58
  Ellen: I'm not going to do that.
• 25:59
  Ellen: That's not necessarily bad.
• 26:00
  Ellen: That's just part
• 26:01
  Cheryl: of being human.
• 26:01
  Cheryl: Right.
• 26:02
  Cheryl: And also listening to you talk about that, when I give myself grace, it gives me value.
• 26:09
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:09
  Cheryl: And worth in myself.
• 26:11
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:12
  Cheryl: Because otherwise, I'm just beating myself up.
• 26:14
  Cheryl: Right.
• 26:14
  Cheryl: That's, that's how I got into stress and burnout is I just did all the things we talked about in the last two episodes that I shouldn't do.
• 26:21
  Cheryl: And then you double down.
• 26:22
  Cheryl: And then you double down and then instead of giving myself grace and space and realizing the value that I have.
• 26:31
  Cheryl: Me apart from being a wonderful mother or a perfect wife or the whatever it is I'm supposed to be that just me alone myself Grace gives me
• 26:42
  Ellen: value and when we take grace, then we're freely able to give.
• 26:46
  Ellen: Yes We cannot give grace if we don't have
• 26:49
  Christie: it for ourselves and and that That's contagious into our children's lives too.
• 26:54
  Christie: I know in this last handful of years, as my kids have gotten into adulthood, and I've shared with you guys, and you guys kind of warned me too, they let you know some of those things that you did not do perfectly.
• 27:06
  Christie: And at first it was alarming and it shattered my pride and it hurt my heart that I had done things that had hurt them or, you know, or, or caused them to let them down.
• 27:17
  Christie: It was a struggle.
• 27:18
  Christie: Yes.
• 27:19
  Christie: And.
• 27:20
  Christie: As soon as I could come to a place, and you know, this was a growing process all through their upbringing of me doing what we're talking about, learning to give myself grace, but If you can laugh at yourself and say, you know, I tried my best.
• 27:33
  Christie: I did what I thought was best at the time.
• 27:35
  Christie: It is contagious to them, but so is the, the rigid, legalistic, you know, hard on yourself.
• 27:43
  Christie: That's contagious.
• 27:43
  Christie: It sure is.
• 27:44
  Christie: Of how much grace they can give to themselves in their lives.
• 27:47
  Christie: Yeah, you're right.
• 27:48
  Cheryl: We all love it because what you're talking about is our family culture and that what a beautiful thing if because I'm not perfect, if I can embrace that and grow in these kind of healthy things and give grace, then they have the grace to be imperfect.
• 28:06
  Cheryl: And it's okay.
• 28:07
  Cheryl: We can be a safe place to fail with each other.
• 28:10
  Cheryl: Right.
• 28:10
  Cheryl: And then we apologize.
• 28:12
  Cheryl: We love each other.
• 28:13
  Cheryl: We put our arms around each other.
• 28:14
  Cheryl: And we go on to the next imperfect thing.
• 28:16
  Cheryl: And
• 28:16
  Ellen: that's always a good sign when your kids will at least come and tell you what you did wrong.
• 28:21
  Ellen: Oh, really?
• 28:21
  Ellen: Well,
• 28:22
  Cheryl: good.
• 28:22
  Cheryl: Because they could just walk
• 28:23
  Christie: away.
• 28:23
  Christie: I've got great signs in my mouth.
• 28:24
  Christie: I was
• 28:24
  Ellen: going to say, I was going to say they could just walk away and not say anything.
• 28:27
  Ellen: You're exactly right.
• 28:28
  Ellen: And be resentful and angry.
• 28:29
  Ellen: This way, they're going to tell you.
• 28:30
  Ellen: And it gives you an opportunity to go, I'm sorry, if I had to do it again, I would do it differently.
• 28:36
  Ellen: That's all I knew to do.
• 28:38
  Christie: You know, I think it says a lot about.
• 28:40
  Christie: Burnout and the source of burnout that we've, this conversation has ended in a place of talking about grace.
• 28:47
  Christie: I mean, at the beginning of exploring this idea, I don't think that's the go to solution I would have given or thought of.
• 28:55
  Christie: But as we've gone through this conversation and landed in this space, I really do think it's the antidote.
• 29:00
  Christie: It sure
• 29:01
  Cheryl: is.
• 29:01
  Cheryl: When you look back all the way through all of it, isn't that wonderful?
• 29:07
  Cheryl: What a great place to end up.
• 29:08
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 29:09
  Cheryl: Excellent.
• 29:10
  Cheryl: Thank y'all so much.
• 29:12
  Cheryl: I had mentioned on previous, um, episodes, as we talk about the stress, I could feel it inside of me when you're describing what causes it or how it looks, and I felt it.
• 29:25
  Cheryl: And this conversation right now, I feel so much freedom.
• 29:28
  Cheryl: I feel really good, you know?
• 29:31
  Cheryl: Because we all need to be reminded.
• 29:33
  Cheryl: We sure do.
• 29:33
  Cheryl: Because we forget.
• 29:34
  Cheryl: And that's why we're here, audience.
• 29:37
  Cheryl: We want to remind you, you be the recipients of grace and let it just pour out through your family.
• 29:43
  Christie: That's true.
• 29:43
  Christie: That's good.
• 29:44
  Cheryl: So hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering, because it really is worth it.
• 29:58
  As we conclude today's conversation, thank you for sharing this time with us.
• 30:04
  But before we go, I again want to leave you with a moment of thoughtful reflection.
• 30:10
  Throughout today's episode, we delved into the complex landscape of parental burnout, recognizing the toxic influence of perfectionism and uncovering its unexpected antidote, grace.
• 30:25
  So ask yourself, or share with someone you trust, where do you find yourself entangled in the phantom of perfectionism?
• 30:35
  Or consider maybe the location of your Personal performance treadmill.
• 30:42
  Now, imagine one way you can apply grace to grow and step off of that relentless treadmill.
• 30:51
  Feel free to share your insights with us on our website, through social media, or by text at contact at TheParentingPodcast.
• 31:00
  com Don't forget to join us next time as we explore the important realm of self care in the realities of parenting.
• 31:09
  Until then, infuse grace into your daily life.
• 31:14
  Cherish those imperfect moments, and thank you for being a very special part of the Parenting Podcast community.