Latest / INSPIRE STORY / #0278-Jeremiah Johnston — The Book of Enoch, Nephilim & the Ark of the Covenant

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#0278-Jeremiah Johnston — The Book of Enoch, Nephilim & the Ark of the Covenant · INSPIRE STORY

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Dr.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Jeremiah Johnston, welcome to the show.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Sean.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: You're welcome. It's an honor to have you. And, you know,
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: we've been looking at you for a long time, and
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I just thought this would be the perfect interview for Easter.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: So we do a Christmas interview, Thanksgiving interview, Easter interview.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: We embrace all the holidays here. Absolutely. And so we
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: really try to do something really meaningful, especially on Christmas
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: and Easter. And the Shroud of Tern is something that
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I've been interested in for a long time. In fact,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: our mutual friend, Lee Strobel, I believe is the first
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: person that brought it up to me.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: And I was just fascinated. So thank you for coming. Absolutely.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: And he is a risen brother.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: That's right. You want to start with a prayer?
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I would love that.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: How about you lead it?
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I would be honored.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Perfect.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Jesus, you're King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: what we're about to discuss has utterly transformed my life.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I pray for every person watching and listening that they
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: would find the hope that the tomb is empty, that
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you're alive forever, and so we can have a living, undying,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: undiminished hope. I pray, Lord, that in this conversation, I
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: can minister to Sean. I pray you'd bless him and
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: meet him at his greatest point of need right now.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And Father, we pray that as we share, we would know,
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Lord God, that it's not by might, it's not by power,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: but it's by your spirit, saith the Lord of hosts.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: So we start now by just giving you the glory
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and asking you to bless this conversation, especially at this
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: wonderful Easter season. And Lord, we say, Come soon, Lord Jesus.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: And we quote John 14, 19. You said, because I live,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: you will live also. So thank you for everything you're
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: going to do. We know that this conversation is going
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to impact the world. We're excited about it. In Jesus' name, amen.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Amen. Thank you.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: So let me give you an introduction here. Dr. Jeremiah Johnston,
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: president and founder of Christian Thinkers Society and serve as
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: a pastor and of Apologetics and Cultural Engagement at Prestonwood
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Baptist Church near Dallas, Texas. PhD from Middlesex University in
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: the United Kingdom, where you completed your doctoral residency at Oxford.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: An elected member of Studiorum Novi Testamenti Societis, the most
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: prestigious New Testament scholarly guild in the world. author of
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: 15 books, including Body of Proof, The Seven Best Reasons
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: to Believe in the Resurrection of Jesus, and the brand
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: new release, congratulations.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Books right there. The Jesus Discoveries, 10 Historic Finds that
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Bring Us Face to Face with Jesus. Examine the ancient
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: manuscripts with your own hands all around the world. You're
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: married to Audrey. You're the father of five children, including Joseph.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: triplet boys.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I haven't slept in nine years.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: I was one. I got two and I haven't slept. And,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: and I already said this, but you know, Lee Strobel,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: I believe you consider him a mentor.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: A dear friend.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I do too. And Lee is awesome. In fact, there's this,
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I saw that. You saw the book up there.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I saw a swag up there.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Right on, man. And, and yeah, once again, this is,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: we're releasing this on Easter and I just, I mean, it's,
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: It's all about the resurrection.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And so this is really the perfect episode for that.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: But so before we get too into it, I found
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: out you spoke at Davos at the World Economic Forum.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: That's right. How the hell did you get invited to
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: that place? I mean, that's one of those places where,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, I probably shouldn't say this, probably get blasted,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: but Yidjiket.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I've been blessed.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Jesus just doesn't get mentioned much at the World Economic Forum.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: In fact, I don't think there's very many people over
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: there that believe in him.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Well, you did a really great show recently with The Exorcist,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: and he mentioned the Antichrist quite a bit. And my
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: wife let me know at Davos I was giving the
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: gospel to all the people that are going to work
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: with the Antichrist someday. Pretty much.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: That's what I think, too.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I was invited by Rich Strombach. He leads the USA House,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: so he brought the administration there. Trump, the State Department,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: 80 heads of state were there. And it was started
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: in 1971 by, of course, the corrupt Klaus Schwab. They
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: just replaced the current president for being in the Epstein
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: files as well. So they're without a president. And Mr. Strombach,
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: who is a dear friend, had seen my material on
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the resurrection of Jesus. And he had a conversion in 2026.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: He used to do, I mean, Vanity Fair, Covered Rich.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, he'd do billionaire hot tub parties. I mean,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: he's Mr. Davos himself. He's a connector. But he had
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: a conversion. He had an experience with Jesus Christ in
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: 2022 that changed his life. So he sent me a
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: message and he said, I want you to bring the
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: gospel and the evidence and the receipts for the resurrection
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: to Davos. And so Jillian Tett, editor of Financial Times,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: provost of King's College, Cambridge University, interviewed me at USA House.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: The Washington Post sponsored that, our session, if you can
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: believe that. It was shocking to me. You can watch
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: it all on YouTube. and I gave all the evidence
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: for the resurrection of Jesus. And I made this point
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: because these are crypto CEOs, some of the best businesses
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: and also some of the most corrupt people on Earth.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I learned at WEF that it's really not governments that
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: run the world, it's these multinational companies that run the world,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: not governments. But I wanted to make it clear that
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: this idea of forgiving debts, this idea of free enterprise,
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: These ideals that built Western civilization come from one event horizon,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: the physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. That message rehumanized humanity,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: ideas of loving your enemies, forgiving debts that didn't come
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: from Marxism, that didn't come from socialism. Of course, they're
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: all looking at me like this. I said that the
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: event horizon is the resurrection of Christ.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: So they invited me back next year.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Are you serious? I was just going to ask, how
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: do you think they took it? You got an invite back?
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: They want me to run the whole faith section for
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: next year.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: They have a faith section.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Now they do.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: That's awesome.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I felt like Paul on the Aeropagus. If you've read
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Acts 17, if you've been to Athens, some mocked, but
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: some believed.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: How did it feel? I mean, did you, was it
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: an eerie feeling being on there?
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: I had, well... How did it feel? First off, I
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: have a chapter in one of my books why I
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: don't feel my faith because my feelings betray me all
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: the time. I had to just keep following truth because
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: I had more demonic spiritual warfare on me that week
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: than I've ever had. I gave three presentations at WEF
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: and could not wait to get home.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: I'll bet. What kind of spiritual attacks? You want to
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: talk about any of that?
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Anxiety.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Wanting to deliver, wanting to get done and make sure
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: that I said everything I wanted to say. for the
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Lord and understanding that this is the first time in
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: 55 years Jesus has ever been mentioned at the World
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Economic Forum and just the weight of that. But greater
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: is he who's in me than he who's in the world,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: 1 John 4, 4. So I later watched it. I
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: don't even remember answering the way I did. It was
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: just the Holy Spirit.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: Right on, man. Well, I would say mission accomplished if
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: there's a faith sector at the World Economic Forum.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Everyone needs the gospel. No one is beyond God's reach.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. Even the people at WEF, they all
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: need to hear the truth of the gospel.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Man, good for you.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Well, praise God. But I wanted them to know these ideas,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: these amenities, you know, I drove here in an awesome
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: rental car. I stayed at a nice hotel last night
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: with air conditioning. These amenities that we enjoy in free
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: enterprise have not always been there. They come out of
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: a worldview and they come out of the cut and
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: thrust of the resurrection. And that's why the conversation we're
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: having right now is so important for people to get
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: what rises and what falls together. what are the stakes
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: of what we're talking about? This is not some kind
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: of religious exercise we're doing just because it's a holiday
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and it's Easter. What rises and falls, the stakes of
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: if Jesus rose from the grave is the greatest X
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: factor the world has ever known.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Love that, love that. Let's talk about the Shroud.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: What is it? I know you just, we have it
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: right out there. You just ran me through the whole
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: thing and it is, I mean, it's breathtaking. I mean,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: it's like, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity. Right.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: You know, for most of us here. And, you know,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: can you just talk about what it is? And I'm
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: sure we're probably going to overlay some of the stuff
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: that we just talked about in there. But I just
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: want to, let's do it again. Okay.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: I've got some gifts for you. Can I begin with
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: the gifts? Is that all right?
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Do you mind? Because I wonder, because it goes right
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: with the shroud. I am gifting you, Sean. Let me
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: hand this to you. I want you to take this.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: What you're holding in your hand is a replica of
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: the spear that pierced our Lord's ribs through rib five
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: and six. John's gospel accurately records that blood and water
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: spewed out. And that is an exact replica of a
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Roman spear. Can you imagine that being thrust through rib
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: five and six? And the signature of that wound I
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: just showed you is on the Shroud of Turin. You
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: can actually see it. It almost looks like a figure
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: eight blood pool. It's post-mortem blood. The blood is already
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: separating because it's dead blood. And that is a gift
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: for you to always remember that he did that because
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: he loved you so much.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: And the weight of it too. And of course would
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: have been sharper.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: And I'm not done. My spiritual gift is giving. So
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: also one thing I love about your program and love
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: about you in particular is you're addicted to truth and
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: you're willing to share the truth no matter the cost.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I have huge regard for you for that because so
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: many people are weak, especially people in the Christian faith
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: are so weak. They won't come on your show. They
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: won't speak boldly for their faith. And so I have
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: in my hand a facsimile of the most priceless New
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Testament fragment on earth. But there's a reason. I'm not
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: just giving it to you because it's priceless. I'm not
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: just giving it to you because it's the oldest. I'm
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: giving it to you because of what it says. Now,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: this is called Papyrus 52, P52. The Gothic P just
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: means papyrus because it is clearly written on papyrus paper.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: This was found in the dry sands of Egypt, of course.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: It would last 2,000 years. But this is the conversation, Sean.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: So this is the oldest that we have. It's dated
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: to 125 AD. And if you know when the Gospel
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: of John was written, the Gospel of John was written
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: in the 90s. So I'm talking about the autograph, the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: one he actually wrote. So this is a copy of
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: that that was likely circulating when John's Gospel was circulating.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: And what this records, and I find this fascinating, and
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: here we are for an Easter broadcast. This is the conversation,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: and it flips around because, again, it's written on both sides,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: the recto and the verso. Can I read it to
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: you in Greek?
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: This is the conversation Jesus is having with Pontius Pilate.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And do you remember he asked Jesus, what is truth?
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: And Jesus responds right here, ectes aletheis, everyone who is
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: of the truth. hears my voice. And that is the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: oldest fragment that we have of the New Testament. I've visited,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I've studied it. It's in the University of Manchester. It's
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: in Manchester at the John Rylands Library. So we had
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: this made for you in this frame, but I'm giving
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: it to you because I have such, and I join
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: millions of others. I echo what they say. Thank you
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: for being fearless about seeking truth. Thank you for asking
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: all the hard questions that nobody else will. I know
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: the price that you pay for that in your family.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: So I hope that this will inspire you, because truth
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: never dies. Jesus, I spell truth J-E-S-U-S, by the way,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: so this is for you. Man, those who are of
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: the truth hear my voice.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Absolutely.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Of course, Pilate was the first postmodern relativist because he
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't use the definite article. He said, what is truth?
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: And that's where so many are today, and that's why
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: your program's so important.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: I'm not done yet. One more gift.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: One of my favorite quotes is, the truth is like
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: a lion, set free and it'll defend itself.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Last gift for you, and this is an ode
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: to my time in Oxford, and this is a chapter
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: in Jesus' discoveries. This is, and you got to say
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: it like you're a snob from Britain, okay? We Americans
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: would say Magdalene College. You got to say it like
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: you're a Brit, Magdalene College. This is where C.S. Lewis taught.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: And of course, all of his colleagues hated him because
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: he wrote popular books. This is the criticism I get.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: We academics, we write for dozens, the 12 people in
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: the world that care about our specialty. But Now we
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: write all these, I've taken from Lewis, you know, Lewis
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: comes to Christ and averages one book a year for
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: the next 30 years of his life. And remember, he
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: writes that wonderful book, The Screwtape Letters. And I don't
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: know if you remember who he dedicated the book to.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: I don't. Tolkien.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: And Tolkien, of course, the author of The Lord of
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the Rings, was actually offended. He thought, why is this lowbrow,
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: non-academic book that's going to make no impact being dedicated
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: to me? Well, of course, then it makes Lewis a
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: wartime celebrity in America, the Screwtape Letter. So Lewis taught
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: at Magdalen College. That's why I'm sharing all this. This
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: is the, I've just given you the oldest fragment. This
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: is the second oldest fragment, which I held in my
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: hands for the first time in 2009. And the shame,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: and I want to get into this, the shame about
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: all these fragments is so few people actually ever see them.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: When I signed my name to see it, I was
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: like the second person in a year who had seen this.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: No kidding.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: So this is called the Jesus Fragment. I have a
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: whole chapter of it in the Jesus Discoveries. This was
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: found in 1901, and it's called the Jesus Fragment because
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: this is the first New Testament fragment that we have
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: that actually has the name of Jesus on it. It's
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: the earliest witness to Matthew's gospel that we have. And again,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: speaking of Easter, this is the conversation of what we
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: call the words of institution. This is the Last Supper.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: So all of this is germane to what we're talking about,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: and it's dated to the second century. So my last
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: gift for you is... It's P64, or what we call
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: the Jesus fragment.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Wow. Man, thank you.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Oh, my pleasure.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: This is amazing.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: And that's the size. That's an actual facsimile. These amazing scraps.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Found in the dry sands of Egypt, literally in trash
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: heaps that are now priceless. But I've got more cool stuff.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: We're going to do all kinds of show and tell.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: People got to watch this whole broadcast and then share
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: it with everybody. You got something right next to you
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: right now that nobody in the world has, which I'll
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: share later. So back to your question about the Shroud.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: You said, what is the Shroud?
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: What is it?
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, I used to be the biggest skeptic of
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: the Shroud. So I did my PhD on the resurrection
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: of Jesus, what they call a 93,000-word Überlieferungsgeschichte of resurrection.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: That's German for a history lesson. of resurrection belief in
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: the Judeo-Christian motif. So I have traced belief in resurrection
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: from the earliest parts of Hebrew Bible through late Second
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Temple Judaism, through the intertestamental period, through the New Testament,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: and then where it finds its fullest expression in second
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: century Christianity. So I'm an expert in resurrection belief, okay?
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: I'm already putting you to sleep just explaining that. But
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: that's my academic pedigree. In that entire training, where at
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Keeble College, I would attend faculty of theology, I defended
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: my thesis to Professor William Telford, who began my viva,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: you know, everything's in Latin in Oxford. He began my
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: viva by saying, Jeremiah, let me just get one thing straight.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I've read your whole, every other word he's saying is Latin,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: and I'm not sure what he's saying. But he was
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: complimenting it. But he said, I have to ask you
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: one question. Do you actually believe the physical bodily resurrection
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: of Jesus happened? And he paused. And he said, or
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: is that just imaginative storytelling? And I said, Professor Telford,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: thank you for the question. David Hume said, wise men
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: choose probabilities without a doubt. I believe Jesus physically, bodily
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: rose from the grave. I can't believe it otherwise. The
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: evidence compels me to believe it. And he sat back.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: This is a Bible scholar. And he said, I don't
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: see it that way. Let's start your Bible. And he
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: later passed me with commendation. So in that entire history
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: of being in Oxford three years, I was conditioned that
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: the Shroud was a Catholic relic with no scientific backing
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: that was 700 years old based on a carbon-14 dating.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: It turns out, when you look at it, the Shroud
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: of Turin is scientific proof of the physical bodily resurrection
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ. And I believe that based on the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: evidence and the 102 academic disciplines that have studied over 600,000
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: research hours in it, I believe that because I'm not irrational.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: So I went from skeptic to believing in it based
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: on the science. And here's what I like to tell people.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: How long did that take?
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: That took three years for me.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Three years.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Because I had to do the research. A lot of
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: us were YouTube smart. We know a soundbite, but we
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: don't know the substance. And so I would call up
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the scholars. I've flown all over the world. I've met
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: with the physicists. I've met with the mathematicians. I've met
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: with the world's elite scientists. Sean, they don't have a
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: theological ax to grind. They're not pastors. They don't want
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: it to be true. They're just following the evidence where
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: it leads. And that's why when I meet with Bruno Barberis,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: and by the way, the irony of his name is
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: not lost on me. I mentioned that in the Jesus discoveries.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Bruno Barberis sounds like Barabbas, who Jesus took his place
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: on the cross. Bruno Barberis is a mathematician. He's seen
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: the Shroud over 100 times in Turin. It's in Turin.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: We should mention that. It's in northern Italy. You can
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: fly into Milan, take the train an hour, see the Alps, beautiful,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: enjoy a train ride, and all of a sudden you're
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: in Turin, Italy, where the Shroud is at the St.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Giovanni Cathedral. So there's Bruno Barberis. He takes all of
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: the information that I just showed you on the cross.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: the wound patterns, the crown of thorns, and he assigns
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: as a mathematician a probability to it. And Bruno says, Jeremiah,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: there is a one in two billion chance it is
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: not the historical Jesus.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: One in 200 billion.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Billion, based on his mathematical probability. And so then I
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: asked him, because, you know, people are dumb, and sometimes
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: you have to ask questions to bring your audience along,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: or they just need to hear it a different way.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I said, so Bruno, are you saying you believe that
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: this was the Jesus of the Bible who was crucified
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: and who this image is? He said, yes. How can
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: I not believe that? The probability compels me to believe.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: He put his hands up like that. And so the
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: shroud is mentioned in all four gospels. All four gospels
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: tell us that Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus, two members
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: of the Sanhedrin, ask Pilate for the body of Jesus.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Pilate is shocked that he is so quickly dead. We
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: can talk about the brutality of crucifixion later if you
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: want to. And this was an amazing act of courage
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: and faith because according to Jewish tradition, if the Sanhedrin
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: condemned a criminal to death, it was on the Sanhedrin
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: to bury that criminal. Jesus is not buried honorably, but
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: he's buried properly. Does that make sense? He's not given
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: an honorable burial. He's given a proper burial. And Joseph
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: of Arimathea, who is a wealthy man, has a linen
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: shroud of fine linen didn't go out to walmart you
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: know the walmart or target wasn't open on friday afternoon
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: before shabbat and passover okay he had already purchased this
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: for his own death planning in fact he said better
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: yet we'll use my family tomb so they wrap a
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: lot of this was just expediency because according to jewish
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: burial traditions which i'm an expert in you had to
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: bury on the day of death before nightfall this is
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: shabbat and this is passover That's how we can date.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: We can talk about how we can date the crucifixion.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: We know the exact date of it. So they wrap
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Jesus's body in this fine linen shroud, which is called
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: synden in Greek, according to the Greek New Testament. Then
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: they use a thonia, that's another Greek word, strips. So
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: they wrap the whole body with fine linen, one continuous sheet,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: and then they wrap the feet and the hands and
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: probably even the face just to, so your body, just
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: to protect your, to dignify the body. They place that
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: 200 feet away in Joseph of Arimathea's family tomb. He's
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: in the tomb for 39 hours, Sean. And then something
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: absolutely miraculous and powerful happens. According to my other friend,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Paolo de Lazaro of Aenea Laboratories outside of Rome, the
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: amount of energy it would take to see what I
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: just showed you on the shroud, an image that is superficial,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: It's only 0.02 microns thin. We could shave it off, Sean,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: with a knife. That's how superficial the image is. Science
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: has proven it's not paint. It's not pigment. It's not dye.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: There are no brushstrokes. It doesn't absorb like the blood does.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: The blood was there before the resurrection. This superficial image
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: is there. Paulo took five years. Of course, I've met
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: with him, interviewed him. And Paulo says, Jeremiah... It would
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: take 34,000 billion watts of energy traveling at 1 40th
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: of a billionth of a second to change the chemical
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: makeup of a fine linen shroud to leave that image.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And he said, we don't have that power on earth.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: So a nuclear event happens on Sunday, April 5th, AD 33.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: And that's why I tell people the Shroud of Turin
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: is not a death cloth. It is a resurrection cloth
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: and better yet, it is an itemized receipt. of how
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: much Jesus loves you, Sean.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Spring always ends up being busier than you expect. Travel
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: picks up, schedules get packed, and your routine is the
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: first thing that falls apart. That's why I try to
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: keep at least one thing locked in every day. And
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: for me, that's AG1. It's just one scoop, takes like
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: 20 seconds, and it covers a lot with over 75
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: ingredients including probiotics, vitamins, and nutrients that support gut health, energy,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: and immune function. Instead of juggling a bunch of different supplements,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: it's all handled in one daily habit. And that's really
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: how I think about it. It's not just another supplement.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: It's just a non-negotiable part of the day. Even when
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: everything else gets thrown off, that stays consistent. Especially this
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: time of year. When routines are shifting, having something simple
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: you can rely on makes a big difference. Go to drinkag1. com
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: to get an AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: vitamin D3 plus K2 for free in your AG1 welcome
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That's a $ 72 value,
• 24:49
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• 24:56
  Speaker 2: slash SRS. What do you mean by a nuclear event?
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: What do you mean by that? You mean he just
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: dissipated out of the.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: That is a great question. What I mean by a
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: nuclear event, I'm saying that in short form because according
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: to the physicists, the amount of energy it would take
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: because there's no pigment, because there's no dye, because there's
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: no paint, science has proven and published that. Science has
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: to ask, how is this image there? And there was
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: a chemical change to the Shroud that if it would
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: have been lasted longer than 1 40th of a billionth
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: of a second, it would have just, it would have scourged, scorched.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: It would have just burned up. It would have been gone.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: And so what, for the physicists watching, this is called.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: Did you just say 1 40th of a second?
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Of a billionth of a second.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: 1 40th of a billionth?
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Of a billionth of a second. So it was a
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: cold power that, I mean, faster than a blink of
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: an eye. 1 40th of a billionth of a second.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: But it was the amount of energy, 34,000 billion watts.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: And he has a weapons clearance, Paulo de Lazaro. So
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: he works with one of the most powerful lasers on Earth.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: And I actually have. They grew fine linen. They grew
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: a sample. It took five years to get a first
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: century model of a shroud. And they would beam their lasers.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: And they were only able to change a postage size stamp.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Size.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: You just looked at a 14 by 14, three by
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: seven full shroud that has an image on it. We
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: don't have that power on earth. So here's how I
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: like to put it. If the big bang created the earth,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the big bang that
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: resurrected and redeemed the earth and you and me. Wow.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: That's what I mean by a nuclear event. It's the
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: best way to explain it. And so I've met with
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: the scientists, you would love this, from Sandia Labs. I've
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: met with the scientists from Los Alamos Laboratories.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: No kidding.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: The Jet Propulsion Laboratories. These are the greatest scientists on Earth. So,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: in the Shroud, one of the really fascinating things that
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I've not been able to share on other shows is
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: we have to ask, like, what kicked off the scientific
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: exploration of the Shroud? Do I have a minute to
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: share this?
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: This is unbelievable. In 1976, two physicists are at Sandia Labs,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Eric Jumper and John Jackson. They're at the Air Force Academy.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: They're physicists, they're professors. They have an VP8 image analyzer.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of a VP8 image analyzer?
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: I have not.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, a lot of people haven't. This is where the
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: nuclear bombs are being developed and with more precision. The
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: VP8 image analyzer is designed to study what happens... to
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: the surface of the Earth after a nuclear explosion. It
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: actually looks at depths of the light, field, topography, all
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: of that. Well, this guy has a VP8 image analyzer
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: and he takes a photo of the Shroud from 1931,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: the on-ray photo. I had mentioned, we'll talk about the
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: different photos that have been taken of the Shroud. So
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have the actual Shroud. He just has a
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: photo of the Shroud that he puts through the VP8
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: image analyzer in 1976. Sean, they are blown away because
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: there is 3D encoding on the shroud. There is a topography,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: almost a holographic nature to it, that shows depths of
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: light even where there shouldn't be, where the body wasn't
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: even touching the shroud. Then they put a picture of
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: their grandchildren through it. It's a distorted image. No other
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: image on Earth has 3D encoding that is holographic in nature.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: And that is what kicked off the scientific study in 1978.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Just a picture?
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Just a picture. Incidentally, here's a cool factoid.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: So was that picture a miracle or could you, I mean,
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: the whole thing is, right?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: Any photo. So we could take one right now and
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: it would do the same thing.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would do the same thing with a VP.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: There's YouTube videos. You can watch Peter Schumacher, great YouTube
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: videos to watch him doing this where he can show
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: the depths of light, the topography of And this is
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: where I'm so thankful we have this time because sometimes
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I don't have time to get to this, how wild
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: this is, how unique it is, how unbelievable. How I
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: explain it is, it is a natural effect, the shroud is,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: of the supernatural event of the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: And science proves that. We're not talking in some kind
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: of theological Christianese right now. I'm quoting physicists. And so
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: that happens in 1976. which the whole world sees and says,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: what is this? We cannot explain how a 2,000-year-old burial
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: cloth has 3D information encoded in it that looks like
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: a holograph. This is like something out of Star Wars.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: So two years later in 1978, the STIRP team, the
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Shroud of Turin Research Project, comprised of 33 scientists, they
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: go to Turin, Italy. They have approval to study the
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Shroud for a little over 100 hours. There's pictures of
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: them literally sleeping on cots. So they take pictures of it.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: They get pollen spores. They get all of the samples.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: And they look at it, and their minds are blown away.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Barry Schwartz, who I talked to on the phone, he's
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: now dead. He was a Jew. And he came to
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: believe that the Shroud was authentically Jesus.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: No kidding.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: And it took him 17 years, Sean, after taking the
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: photo in 1978. So he tells me this firsthand. He says, Jeremiah,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: we're down in the lobby of the hotel having drinks
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: and just laughing, thinking, man, we got a free trip
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: to Italy out of this deal. Give me 15 minutes
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: in the scientific method and we will prove the shroud
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: is a forgery. After 15 minutes and after one day,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: no one was laughing. They slept next to it. They said,
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: we can't explain this. But what got Barry, and so
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Barry gives the TED Talk on the Shroud. So I
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: call literally the TED Talk on the Shroud was given
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: by Barry Schwartz. That's how I got my replica. I
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: acquired my replica of the Shroud from Barry Schwartz. God
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: bless him. But what turned him and convinced him was
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: the blood type. I just showed you that there is
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: blood all over the Shroud. Do you want to know
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: what the blood type is?
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: What's the blood type?
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Type AB blood. What's the significance of that? The significance
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: is if there was ever a priestly line of blood,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: it would be type AB blood. The fewest amount of
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: people in the world have type AB blood. It's Semitic.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: It's only 6% of the world's population. It's human blood.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: And what's even crazier is I have a chapter, but
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: actually a chapter contributed at the end of the book
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: by my friend, scholar Doug Powell. We have the face
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: cloth of Jesus, which I can get into if you want.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: It's been in Oviedo, Spain. It's called the sudarium. That's
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: another Greek term. Face cloth that wrapped the face of Jesus.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Guess what the blood type is on the sudarium that's
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: been there since the 7th century?
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: AB. AB blood.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: So if you're a medieval forger, how are you going
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: to know about AB blood? How are you going to
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: be able to... You would have to kill someone, Sean.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: You would have to torture them. The hematological reports... You're
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: getting me all excited now in this conversation. It gives
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: me chills to this day because it does take your
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: breath away. The hematological reports that have studied the blood,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: the peer-reviewed journals show that Jesus, who I believe is
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: the man of the shroud, he was experiencing high levels
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: of ferritin, so much so that he was experiencing organ
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: failure before he even got to the cross. His creatinine
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: was off the charts. It is a miracle he even
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: made it to the cross. based on the demonic flogging
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: that he experienced. And so all of this is there.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: There's a criminologist by the name of Max Fry, and
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: he takes pollen samples from the Shroud. And do you
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: know what he finds out? There are 58 pollens on
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: the Shroud. 38 of them are from Jerusalem. They only
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: bloom in springtime during Passover. The rest of the 20
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: pollens follow the provenance of where the shroud has been
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: for the last 2,000 years.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Are you serious?
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, according to Max Frey. So 38 of the 58
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: pollens on the shroud only bloom in springtime. We know
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Jesus is crucified. It's the best established fact of the
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: ancient world on April 3rd, AD 33. Sean, if we
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: cannot believe that Jesus was crucified under Roman crucifixion based
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: on the sources and evidence, We shouldn't believe that Caesar
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: crossed the Rubicon in 49 BC. Jesus' death and resurrection
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: is the best evidential fact established from late antiquity. And
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: the evidence bears that out.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: Wow. Man, that is... I want to go back to
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: the nuclear.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, please.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: So.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: So how, I mean, they didn't lift the shroud up.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: It was a nuclear event in 140th of a billionth
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: of a second.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: 140th of a billionth of a second, correct, according to
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: the physicists.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: And then he's out.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Where does he go?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: So this is what happens. Early Sunday morning, the women
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: are coming to the tomb. We know from the Jet
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Propulsion Laboratory, again, this is April 5th, and what's cool
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: about our broadcast, this year, Easter Sunday happens to be
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: April 5th. So we're talking about the exact day.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Man.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: 2032, that's 8033.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Probably not a coincidence.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I'm here to blow your mind, by the way. So
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: I'm here to blow everyone's mind because the truth of
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: the resurrection should blow our minds. So the women are
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: going there. We know, according to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: that sunrise on that Easter Sunday would have been a
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: crisp morning in Jerusalem. And the women are hurrying to
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: the tomb.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: For Jewish burial traditions. Jesus was buried with such haste.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: He dies at three, sundown, 6 p.m. Joseph of Arimathea
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: and Nicodemus only have three hours to get his body
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: off the cross, to get it buried, and to get
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: it in the tomb. So they did not have time
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: to complete the bodily washing. That's why the women are
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: going to the tomb Sunday morning. Sunrise is at 543
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: in the morning, according to the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, on
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Sunday morning, April 5th, AD 33. They're going there very early.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: They're shocked because the tomb, which would have weighed 2,750 pounds,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: the stone cover, I've seen a similar one right down
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: from the King David Hotel, where Mary Omni was buried,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: wasn't good to be one of Herod the Great's wife.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: He loved to kill his wives. One said it was
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: better to be Herod the Great's pig than a member
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: of his family because he was such a paranoid person,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: would kill his family. So rich tomb covers are like that.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: They're hard to move. The women of this day would
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: have been 4'11, 90 pounds. Remember, they're worried, Sean, who
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: will move the stone away for us? Jesus, it's kind
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: of shocking. He's buried in a rich man's tomb, a
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: new tomb. This was Arimathea's tomb, Joseph's. They get there,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: the tomb cover has been blasted away. And I think
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: that's part of what happened. I think the energy, this
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: nuclear event that brought Jesus' physical body back to life
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: just blew the tomb door wide open. And so Jesus emanates.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I want to make this very clear because I had
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: to understand this. I'm thinking to myself, okay, I'm trying
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: to understand. Does he raise from the dead and then
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: like Lazarus have to take off his grave clothes? No,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: his body literally emanates through the shroud. So the shroud,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: we've actually created this in AI. The shroud would have
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: just like, just kind of collapsed. And he would have
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: looked down and seen the shroud, walked right out of
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: the tomb, And he starts with all what we call
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: the appearance tradition. This is the eyewitness appearance tradition. So
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: we have empty tomb tradition for Easter, and we have
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: appearance tradition. We have two lines of witness of the
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: physical bodily resurrection of Jesus. Of course, he appears to
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: the women first. And Sean, this is what I write
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: about in my book. If you and I wanted to
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: invent a religion, if we wanted to write the resurrection story,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: the gospels, we never would have written it the way
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: it's written because everything about it is humiliating and embarrassing.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Good point.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: I actually give a paper. If the gospel writers invented
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: the story of Jesus, one that would have been culturally acceptable,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: they did a terrible job. So Jesus appears to women because, remember,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Jesus will rehumanize people. This is the beauty of the gospel.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Everybody watching right now, whatever you're going through, Jesus will
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: rehumanize you. He will give you a hope that never dies.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: 1 Peter 1.3 says that because of the resurrection of Jesus,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: we have a living hope. And that's something I need
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: right now. I need a living hope. I don't need
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: something that I can vibe. I don't need anything that
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I need as a crutch. I need a living hope.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: And there's something about the fact of the resurrection that
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: gives us hope. The Greek word for hope is elpis.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: It's used in the Greek New Testament a hundred times,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: and it's always tied to the fact, not the feeling,
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: to the fact of Jesus's resurrection. There's something about the
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: resurrection that energizes us. So much so that 1 Corinthians 15, 58,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: after 57 magisterial verses on the resurrection, Paul says, therefore,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: be strong, be vigilant.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Knowing that your labor in the Lord is not in
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: vain because of the resurrection. Everything we do for Christ matters.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Man, where are we going from here? I'm just, yeah,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: you're just going. So I'm along for.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: The ride here. Well, so the shroud, what I want
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: everyone to know 102 academic disciplines have studied it, and
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: the reason that I say it is an itemized receipt
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: of how much Jesus loves us is because financial terms
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: are used Easter weekend. The scriptures say that we've been ransomed.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: It says we were bought at a price, and oh,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: what a price it was, the blood of Jesus. It
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: says we've been redeemed. It says we were bought. These
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: are all financial terms. I don't know if you remember, Sean,
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: the last word of Jesus on the cross. We hear
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: it in his native Aramaic tongue, tetelestai. That's a financial term,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: paid in full. And so when I look at the shroud,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: when I study the brutality of what Jesus did for
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: you and for me on the cross, I am stunned.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: It's an itemized receipt of how much Jesus loves us.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: It brings to mind Romans 5.8, But God, and this
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: is what people don't know because they don't know the
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Greek New Testament, it is written in the continuous present tense.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: Romans 5.8 says, but God continues to show his love
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: for us in that when you and I were sinners,
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: he sent his best, Christ, to die in our place.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: That's the beauty of the gospel. Jesus is treated as
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: if he lived your life and mine So God can
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: treat us as if we lived the life of Jesus.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: That's what we call grace. It doesn't make sense. It's
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: too good to be true. And that's why it's good news.
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: That's why it's the gospel. And so what a demonstration
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: it was. And what I want you to know, Sean,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: what I'm praying and was praying this morning is that
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I want you personally to have a new understanding of
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: how much Jesus loves you. Because that's what it did
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: for me. It took my breath away. We all need reminders.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Does God really love me? I mean, I've sinned for
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: the 7,000th time. You know, what Paul said in Romans 7,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: the things I hate to do. This is what I
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: printed on my golf balls, by the way. I do
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: what I hate. I don't do what I want to do.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: I print them on all my golf balls. Romans 7.
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: But that's Paul's frustration, right? We're still sinners. We need forgiveness.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: And we need to be reminded. And if we're not careful,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: Easter can be so, oh, it's another Easter, Easter egg hunt,
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: going to go to church.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: No.
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: You have to be reminded of how much God loves you.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: And so I brought something that I want to hand you. Now,
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: when I was at the World Economic Forum speaking, people
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: were looking at me weird, and I was wondering why.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: And I didn't realize that I had punctured my hand
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: with the crown of thorns. So I'm sitting here speaking, lecturing,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: and I have blood dripping down my hands. So I
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: want you to be careful, okay?
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna say you had a... You
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: have all this stuff and they're all wondering where your
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: statue of Baphomet is.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: We are so influenced by medieval Christian art, unfortunately. The
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: effeminate Jesus, the meek Jesus, the weak Jesus, the Jesus
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: with no beard. He's not a Jewish Jesus. We don't
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: realize how influenced we are by medieval Christian art. Jesus
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: was a man's man. He traveled over 20,000 miles in
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: his ministry, probably weighed 180 pounds, physically fit man, 5'10
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: to 6 feet. By the way, we have tombs with
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: much taller men from the first century. So these people
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: that at me of, oh, that's too tall for Jesus. No,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: actually in the tomb of Yehohanan, we have someone who's
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: taller than Jesus who was crucified. So in medieval Christian art,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen this before. But we
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: see this crown of thorns and it's like a wreath.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: It's like a sweatband, something you'd wear working out. And
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: we think, oh, that's cute. No, the Romans wanted to
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: humiliate Jesus. Not only is he crucified completely naked, but
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: the scriptures tell us that they fashioned a crown of thorns.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: And this is a crown. This is a helmet. This
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: is truly a dome, a cap of thorns. And this
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: is what puts it beyond all doubt. I'm an expert
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: in Roman crucifixion. We have one exemplar of all the
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: crucifixion examples that we have from antiquity. We have only
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: one exemplar of someone that was crucified with a crown
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: of thorns, and that's Jesus of Nazareth. These are three
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: inch Bethlehem thorns, Sean. They're extremely sharp because when they dry,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: they're as sharp as nails. So I'd like to hand
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: it to you, and I just want to describe it
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: to you while you process it. The scriptures say that
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: sacrifices and offerings you did not require, but a body
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: you prepared for me. And this is a replica which
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: matches because we have 30 to 50 puncture wounds on
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: the head and the scalp of the crucified man. I
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: often joke with people, yeah, try it on, see if
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: it works. It definitely does. Those wounds, those are Bethlehem
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: thorns as sharp as nails.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: They are.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: This is what was thrust on Jesus' head. I want
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: to make sure and remind you, Sean, of the chronology.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Jesus is first flogged. He's beaten. I have the phlegm here.
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: I'll show you.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: 700 times. Then they put the crown of thorns on
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: his head. Pontius Pilate stands up next to Jesus. Remember,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: his wife warmed him in a dream. Have nothing to
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: do with this man. And yet Pilate says, echo homo
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: in Latin, behold the man. And the crowd full of
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Jews began to yell, crucify him, crucify him, crucify him.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: They want him dead. Keep in mind, they had just
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: seen Lazarus raised from the dead. This is why the
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: most dangerous place you can get is to stop seeking truth.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: That's why I love your program. You show us truth
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: no matter the cost. They put this on him. And
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: can you imagine the humiliation, the pain?
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: This is so nasty, I don't think humiliation would even
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: be in my mind.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: But you know what I see, Sean?
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: It would be so painful.
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I see love. Because it should have been my head
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: in that crown. But it wasn't. I have four sons.
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: I would die for them. I certainly wouldn't give them
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: for anyone. And yet the Bible says, Jesus loved me
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: so much when I was at my worst. God sent
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: his best for me, who put his head in that
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: crown that I deserved. And that is the beauty of
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: the gospel. That is the beauty that the gospel sets
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: us free of our sin. And we live on purpose,
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: for a purpose, because we know that this life is
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: not what we're living for. We're living for the new heaven,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: the new earth, the resurrected king. Tell me what you're
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: thinking holding that.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about how bad this would, how painful this
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: would be.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: And I know you know pain.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Stuffing it on his head, you know.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: You know violence, you know pain. I want to get
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: your impression of it.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, look at that. You know how much force
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: they would have to do just to get that around
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: your head? I mean....
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Wow. Now, I have something very cool to show you.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Because this is Easter weekend, I've just acquired this. This, Sean,
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: is an actual crucifixion nail from the first century. that
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: was used to execute criminals of Rome. And when you
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: hold it, I want you to do what I've done.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I want you to put it at your wrist. These
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: spikes are interesting because they were so valuable to the Romans.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: They were often reused. It'd be like if you could
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: reuse bullets to kill someone, they would reuse these again
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: and again. Far more valuable than the criminals they executed.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: It's amazing what a man can do to another man
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: in violence. And when I look at this, I see
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: an excruciating instrument. That's, by the way, that term excruciating, Latin,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: is from crucifixion, the cross. But I want you to
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: notice something. Can I hand you this? I want you
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: to hold this. As you're holding that, I want you
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: to notice that it has a square shaft. So without
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: a doubt, that's first century. This was unearthed in Jerusalem.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: Jerusalem is the Syrian province of Rome. We have 21
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: different evidences of individuals being nailed to the cross. The
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: top of the nail would have been square at one time,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: but it's been hammered so much into its victim it's
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: almost been circularized. But, Sean, if you look closely, do
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: you notice how there is a bend in the nail?
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Do you know why that is? Why? The Romans wanted
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: to minimize movement but maximize torment on the cross. So
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: if they were crucifying you, they would often adjust the
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: nails while you were on the cross just to inflict
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: greater pain. So after crucifying I don't know how many victims,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: this nail, this iron spike over time begins to wilt
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: even under that pressure. I want you to put it
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: against your wrist and just imagine. And I want you
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: to let some scripture wash over you. Think about the
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: Messianic Psalm 22, verse 16, they pierced my nails and
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: my feet. David sees that prophetically a thousand years. Of course,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: this is before crucifixion was even invented. We see this
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: in Isaiah 53, and you're holding in your hand a nail,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: and you know what struck me as I researched this?
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: The nails that Jesus died with were probably, they had
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: probably been used on other People that did deserve it.
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: These were nails that had been used to kill others,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: but he was not deserving of death. There's DNA on it.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: There's rust in his sinless blood. And here's the beauty
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: of it. Those nails did not keep Jesus on the cross.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: His love for you and me kept him on that cross.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Jesus could have called down a legion of angels at
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: any moment. but he wanted to go to the cross.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: The Bible says in Luke that he set his face
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: like flint to go to Calvary. This was no accident.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Jesus came and he gave that message, the greatest message,
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: I have come to seek and save all who are lost.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: He said, if I be lifted up, I will draw
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: all men to myself. And he was lifted up in
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: a torturous way. So no, the nail's People think that
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: kept the author of life up there, but no, it
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: was really his love.
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: Most of us don't actually know what's going on inside
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: of our bodies. We just assume we're fine until something
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: feels off. That's been my experience with normal doctor visits.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: You go in, get told everything looks good, and leave
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: without any real clarity or plans. And that's why I've
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: been really into what Superpower is doing. It's one simple
• 52:02
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• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Heart health, hormones, metabolism, vitamin levels, even environmental toxins. It's
• 52:15
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• 52:19
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• 52:23
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• 52:26
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• 52:29
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• 52:36
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• 53:04
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• 53:06
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• 53:14
  Speaker 2: You know, when you were describing all the shroud to me,
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: you talked about how they did the feet.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Could you go through that now?
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: This is very important. May I have it back? So
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: I love The Passion of the Christ. Actually, I just
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: showed it to my triplets who are nine. Mel Gibson
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: got so many things right, but not everything is correct.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: You know, the new one, the new one's coming out
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: next year. Bro. They're filming it right now.
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: So, and again, Holly.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: Resurrection.
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: And I love that. And I love Dallas Jenkins, The Chosen.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: I have no problem with creative license, but People need
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: to know that's just an approximation. They don't realize, and
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: that's why this conversation needs to be shared. People need
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: to know the brutality of what Jesus went through for us.
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: There was no pedestal that he was standing on. My
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: friend Scott Stripling, the archaeologist who endorsed my book, The
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Jesus Discovery, has proven and shown that the victims, forgive
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: me for holding up my foot, they were crucified through
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: the calcaneus, directly through it. So if the cross is
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: in the middle, they essentially straddled the cross and the
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: nail goes through the calcaneus all the way through and
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: pins him to the cross. How do we know this?
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: We have in the Israel Antiquities Museum, we actually have
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: the heel bone of poor old Yehohanan, John, John, Jonathan,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: who was crucified under the reign of Pontius Pilate. They
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: had to get him buried before nightfall, Sean. they couldn't
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: get the nail out of the calcaneus, out of the
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: heel bone. And so finally they just said, forget it,
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: it's nightfall, just bury the nail with the heel bone
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: and throw it in the ground, and throw it in
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: the tomb. So in 1967, we unearthed the heel bone
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: with a wood washer. I have a photo of it
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: that we can show your audience right now that very
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: few people in the world have seen. There's a olive
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: wood washer showing that yes they straddled the cross so
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: we're actually talking about four nails we're talking about one
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: two three four so through the heel bone through the
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: heel bone through the calcaneus and that shows you what
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: experts they were because our heels are very brittle these
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: men knew how to crucify you the romans didn't invent
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: crucifixion they perfected it and so when jesus dies Yes,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: he dies by asphyxiation, but based on the hematological reports,
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: he also died of a massive heart failure, which is
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: interesting to think about. The blood loss, heart failure. Father,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: into your hands I commit my spirit. No one takes
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: my life from me. I give it willingly. But people
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: need to understand the brutality of it, and this shows that.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: There's something else, because we can get so calloused. Can
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: I show you something else?
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I've just acquired these. Romans loved to gamble. Gambling was
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: a huge issue in the first century. And I don't
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: know if you remember in the All Four Gospels record,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: so these executioners, they've got Jesus on the cross. Never
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: mind it's about to go dark for three hours. They're about,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: you know, the rocks are getting ready to cry out,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: an earthquake's getting ready to happen, the veil's getting ready
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: to be torn in two. All of this is lost
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: on them. They're so jaded to crucifixion. And so many
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Christians can get very desensitized to it. I want you
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: to hold in your hands first century dice. Those are
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: dice unearthed in Jerusalem. Now, I'm not saying those were
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: the dice used at Jesus's crucifixion, but these are dice
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: from the first century. They're made from bone. We were
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: in the drive-thru of Cain's the other day. My triplets
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: and I and Jax, my triplets said, Dad, these stink.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I said, son, they're 2,000 years old. They're made from bone.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: But do you see the numbers punched on them?
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're... Exactly. It's the same as today's dice.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: And so I want you to think about that. The
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: Romans who had just nailed Jesus, the author of life,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: to the cross are sitting there gambling. You remember what
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: they're gambling for?
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: His clothes.
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: They want his tunic. They want his fine linen garment.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: And they're gambling. They're casting lots. with bone, with bone dice,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: just like what you're holding in your hand. And again,
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: it reminds me of the cost of what Jesus went
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: through and how for some people though, Sean, no evidence
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: is enough for them to believe.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: So Judas betrays Jesus. And I want to show you
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: something else. This is very important. He is betrayed for
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: the price of a slave. Judas, 30 pieces of silver.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: Have you ever held a Tyrian silver before? A piece
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: of Tyrian silver?
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: I don't believe I have.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: So this is 14 grams. This was also the temple tax.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: So I want to explain it to you, but I
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: want you to hold it. This is a full 14-gram shekel.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: Hold that in your hand.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: It's extremely valuable. That is not a replica. So there's
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: two things that are important here. Number one, that was
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: the currency of the temple. So if you and I
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: were going to pay our temple tax, we would have
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: to go change out whatever currency we had into Tyrian
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: silver that was made in Tyre, and we would have
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: to pay our temple tax. Now, I don't know if
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: you travel internationally, but like the worst place you can
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: change money at, it's like the airport, you know, like
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: the exchange rates rip you off. Well, that times a
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: hundred is what was happening on the southern steps in
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Jerusalem And so Jesus comes through and he overturns the
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: tables because they're ripping everybody off They're they're doing ridiculous
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: currency exchanges But that's the currency that you had to
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: pay your temple tax in that incidentally is also the
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: silver piece of 30 of which were paid to Judas
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: to betray Jesus on that Easter weekend.
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: And you feel the weight of it. So we know
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: this was in circulation at the time of Pontius Pilate
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: in the 20s A.D.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't know where you want to go
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: from here, but what I'm interested in is what was
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: the What was the final thing that made you a
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: believer in the Shroud?
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: That's a great question.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: How many years did you say?
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: It took me three years to go from a complete
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: skeptic because I thought it was a Catholic relic, not
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: an artifact. And it's very important. The Shroud is an artifact.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: And it is an artifact of the death, burial, and
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: resurrection of Jesus. And nothing outside of the Bible does that,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: which is fascinating.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: What took me from skeptic to believing that the shroud
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: is authentic because I'm not irrational is the fact that
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: the greatest scientific minds in the world cannot explain or
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: replicate how there is an image in the shroud that
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: coincidentally matches with one-to-one correspondence the exact way that Jesus
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: of Nazareth was crucified.
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: Man. I mean, you had talked to a bunch of scientists, though,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: for that three years.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: So what was the last thing that you're– it was
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: obviously a challenge for you to believe. And so that's–
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, I would like to talk about the whole journey,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: but the final– I'm just curious. The final thing, what
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: was it?
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: So that's really interesting. You should ask this. So my pastor,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: Jack Graham, challenged me to speak about what I was
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: learning at our Friday morning men's Bible study. And my
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: son was there.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: Justin.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: And he really clued in because this kind of, what
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: we're talking about in your program right now, evidence for
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: our faith, reasons to believe, this is what's going to
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: reach the whole next generation. They want to know tangible
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: proof in understandable terms why Jesus is the greatest evidence
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: person of late antiquity, why Jesus' death by crucifixion and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: resurrection is something we should believe is the best established
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: fact of the ancient world. And I saw my son
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: clue in on it. So Whatever it took to, you know,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: my greatest passion in life is passing on faith to
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: my children, a true faith. I can't believe for them,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: but I can put them in proximity to believe with
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: all the power that I have. So I share that
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: day at the men's breakfast. And at that point, Sean,
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: I was like, no, I don't want to put my
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: academic reputation on the line, but let me just share
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: with you what I'm learning so far. I was hedging
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: myself a little bit. Fast forward to just before the
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Hamas attack, October 7, I'm in Jerusalem. Sean, I've been
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: in more tombs than any guest you've ever had and
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: probably any person you've ever met. I have filmed in
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: more tombs than anyone else I know in the world.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: And I've filmed in the tomb of Lazarus and Bethany.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I've filmed in the tomb of the Church of the
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Holy Sepulchre. I've filmed in the garden tomb. I've filmed
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: in the tombs of Emmaus and Icopolis. I've filmed in
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: all kinds of tombs. I know tombs. I know death chambers.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: I know how people die. I had a day off
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: in Jerusalem. This is just days before the October 7 attack.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: And I heard about this Shroud Museum that my good
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: friends at Ethonia put on at Notre Dame, not in Paris,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: at Notre Dame in Jerusalem. And I walk through the exhibit.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: Nobody's there. There's not a guide. But guess what? The
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Holy Spirit is good at his job, it turns out.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: And the Holy Spirit was with me. And I walked
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: through the exhibit just like these things that I'm showing you.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: And do you know what it was?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: What?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: When I saw the Helmet of Thorns. It literally took
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: my breath away. It was like everything I had learned,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: my PhD journey, everything I had learned about Jewish burial traditions,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: it all came to that moment. And I thought this
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: is authentic based on the evidence. And it physically took
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: my breath away.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: We say with the writers of the New Testament, what
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: manner of love is this? There's no equation for it.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: And that's what was transformational. And so now this message,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: this itemized receipt of the Shroud, of how much Jesus
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: loves us. We've taken this message around the world. If
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: you would have told me then, you'll bring the Shroud
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: with you to WEF. I had the Shroud with me
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: at WEF. And people are stunned. I had Oswald Boateng,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: my dear friend, who's like one of the finest designers
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: in the world. I said, oh, you like linen? You
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: like garments? Let me show you Jesus's burial garment.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: Wow. Where was it found?
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: The shroud itself. So the provenance of the shroud is fascinating.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: And I have a wonderful schematic that hopefully I can
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: show in B-roll. The shroud is taken, obviously, immediately. Nobody
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: would have left it. And I'm actually working right now
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: on an article. This is interesting. This might blow your
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: mind a little bit. Now, this is speculative, but we
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: have to ask ourself. In John 20, it says something
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: very interesting. In John 20, verse 8, John says that
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: he saw and believed. By the way, 11 times in
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: John 20, we're told people saw things. When we talk
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: about faith, we're not talking about faith in nothing. Faith
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: is only as good as its object. And this is
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: what I love, edon, this Greek word to see. It's
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: used 186 times in the New Testament. And so I'm
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: hoping that this broadcast opens people's eyes to the amazing
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: enormity of the evidence of Jesus's resurrection. We have 45
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: sources for Jesus's life, death, burial, and resurrection with over
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: 129 facts. In Jesus Discoveries, I show how we can
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: build 65 facts about the life, death, burial, and resurrection
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: of Jesus before we ever open our Bibles. I want
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: people to, I want to unlock this for people, the
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: gravity and the enormity of it. And when I saw that,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: it all came together for me and it just took
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: my breath away.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question. Do you think that
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: Jesus wanted to leave that behind? That was the whole plan?
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: I do, absolutely. Meant to be found? Yes.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: And this is what I'm working on. I believe that
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: the shroud was still glowing in the tomb when it
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: says that he saw and believed. I believe there was
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: a resurrection residue on the shroud because what else did
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: he see and believe? He says when he saw the
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: linen cloths lying there, he saw... and believed. If you
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: read the whole passage, John 21 through 8, it's very clear.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: He's looking at the shroud and it says he saw
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: and he believed. I believed he saw the image glowing.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: Who's he? John.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: John's gospel. John, remember, there's a foot race, the women
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: in the appearance tradition, you know, Mary Magdalene, she runs back,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: she says, the tomb's empty. I've seen him, you know,
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: come and see the Lord is alive. I preached this
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: passage three times at the Holy Sepulchre Church when I
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: filmed there. And so John and Peter have a foot
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: race to the tomb. And I love this. Right there
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: in the Gospels, we're told that, you know, every runner
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: loves to tell you they're a runner. Have you ever
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: met a runner that doesn't love to tell you they're
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: a runner? I think John was a runner because he
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: said he outran Peter to the tomb. And then he's
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: sitting there waiting for Peter before he goes in. And
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: he goes, he went in, and it's one of the
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: greatest verses in all the Bibles. He saw the shroud
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: and believed. So you say, well, Jeremiah, did he not
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: believe in Jesus before that? Well, sure he did, but
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: we can believe more. This broadcast right now is strengthening faith,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: and it's also reaching the most ardent skeptic right now,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: because to not believe in the shroud, you have to
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: not take into account 102 academic disciplines. I flew here
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: on an airplane for this interview. I don't know who
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: invented the airplane. I don't know. I mean, I have
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: an idea. I don't really understand aerodynamics, but man, I
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: understood enough to get on board the flight and fly here.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: We have so much more evidence for Jesus's resurrection. What
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: is it going to take for you to believe that
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: he rose from the grave and commit your life to him?
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: That's actually kind of why I'm asking is, is I don't,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: are we supposed to have proof because it's all about faith, right?
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: It's all about putting your faith in him.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: Such a great question. Yes, we need proof. Are we
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: better than the... Let me tell you.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: I guess what I'm asking is, I almost feel like
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: leaving proof behind is almost a contradiction.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not. And I'd like to tell you why.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: There would be no such thing as Christianity if those
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 1: disciples did not see Jesus physically alive after he was dead.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: They had all given up hope. Luke 24, 21, remember Cleopas,
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: we think it's his wife Mary, is on the way
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: to Emmaus, a seven-mile walk, and they don't realize they're
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: walking with the resurrected Christ, and they're dejected. And they say, oh,
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: we had hoped he was the Messiah, but he was
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: just killed. We had hoped. They'd given up hope. The
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: disciples had scattered. No one expected the Messiah to rise
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: from the dead. There could not have been a worse
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: talking point to start a new religion than resurrection. No
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: one believed in resurrection in the first century. Even people
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: that say, well, Jews believed in it. They believed in
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: a general resurrection, like way out into the future. Resurrection,
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: meaning that someday all Jews would be resurrected by the Messiah.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: They didn't believe in an individual messianic resurrection. No one
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: saw that coming. 4Q285, which is a Qumran dead scroll,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: they talk about literally the Jews killing the Roman emperor.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: Their idea was that the Messiah would come and vanquish
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: a corrupt priesthood, cleanse the temple, and kill the Roman emperor.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: That was the Messiah that Jews were looking for in
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: the first century. And I think this is why Judas
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: fell out of the boat, incidentally. Nobody expected him to
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: die on the cross. Remember Matthew 16, 20, Jesus has just,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: literally Peter has just said, you are the Christ, the
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: son of the living God. And Jesus is like, that's right.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go die on the cross now. And
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: Peter rebukes Jesus and says, no, you're not going to
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: go to the cross. And do you remember what Jesus
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: says to Peter? He says, get behind me, Satan. He
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: literally calls him Satan. Get behind me. It was always
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: the point that he would go to the cross. So
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: these people all give up hope. They go back to fishing.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: We need to make sure that our faith is not
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: more pious than the first Christians. The first Christians needed
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: proof to believe in. Faith is not faith in faith, Sean.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: It is faith in evidence. It is faith in the
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: facts of the gospel and a person who completed our
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: salvation for us. It is not So I really help
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: pious believers that are like, oh, I just believe it
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: because the Bible said, oh, well, you're better than all
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: the first century Christians. They would have given up without proof.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: This is why the Bible says he showed himself to
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: be alive by many infallible proofs. There's this word called
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: incipit in Latin. You have a scroll over here that
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: we're going to talk about soon. And you can see that,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: you know, I've got this beautiful title. I've got this
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: beautiful cover to my book.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: It was designed.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: It kind of gives you an idea of what the
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: book is about. Well, scrolls you had to say what
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: it was about in the incipit, the first two or
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: three lines had to say what, because otherwise, I mean,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: like that's 24 feet long next to you.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: That's 24 feet long.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which we'll get to. So it's like, bro, you
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: got to tell me in the first sentence or two
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: if I'm going to go to the effort to unroll
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: this whole thing, because it takes an effort. And in
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: Luke's incipit, which just in Latin means here it begins, remember,
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: Luke says, I want to share with you, I've put
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: together the evidence that And he uses the word autoptes
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: in Greek, which is the word we get autopsy from.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: We were eyewitnesses of these things so that you can
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: have a certainty to your faith. So that's what the
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: kind of faith we're called to, certainty based on eyewitness
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: testimony and evidence. So let's not think that faith is
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: like something we drum up or we vibe or we, oh,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: I just need more faith, man. No, faith is knowledge.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: The more you know about God, the more you know
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: about the facts that we're discussing for the resurrection, your
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: faith will naturally become stronger. Does that make sense?
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: It does. It does make sense.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: So faith is only as strong as its object. I'm
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: sitting in this chair right now. I believe it'll hold
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: me up based on the evidence. That's all faith is.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: No one's going to be commended for their amount of
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: their faith. So often I'm like the dad in Mark 9.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the dad in Mark 9 who looked
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: at Jesus and said, Lord, I believe, help my unbelief?
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: That was enough faith for Jesus to act. That's enough
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: faith for anyone watching right now to say, Lord, I believe,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: help my unbelief. Jesus will act in your behalf because
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: it's faith in him based on evidence. So that's why
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: I have this ministry called Christian Thinker Society. Jesus said,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: love me with your heart, love me with your soul.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: He quotes the Shema, but only can Jesus messianize Shema
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: And he says, love me with your mind. Love God
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: with all your mind. It's faith in evidence.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: Okay, that does make sense. What are we going, where
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: are we going next?
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: Well, where we're going next, my friend, is I do
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: want to make sure, I want to make sure since
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: this is an Easter episode that you do understand the phlegm.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Can I hand you this? This is a replica of
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: a Roman phlegm. The scriptures say, and it's one of
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: the most overlooked passages in the Gospel of John, it says,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: And Pilate had Jesus flogged. And because of our historical distance,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: we simply cannot appreciate or understand the cruelty, the demonic intimacy.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: That is rawhide, and those are lead balls. Fastened to
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: those three chords that is a Roman scourge and we
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: know based on the evidence that he was scourged with
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: two executioners and That is when Jesus endures 700 lashes
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: 700 we have counted on the shroud 372 lashes, but
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: we do not have the lateral sides and So we estimate,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: and by the way, every part of his body was flogged,
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: including his pelvic region. There's not an area on his
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: body that wasn't flogged. In fact, there's evidence that one
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: of those balls came around the face of Jesus, the
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: man who's crucified in the shroud, and literally blinded one
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: of his eyes. Man.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, these things are sharp, too, where they put
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 2: the holes through so they can get the leather through there.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: Then you have this wire holding this up. Was this water?
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: Yes. It could have been bone, too, but we're confident
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: that lead balls are what was used. Barbells.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: Would these balls penetrate the... Oh, yeah.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: They would puncture, absolutely. And that's where you have the blood.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: That's where you see bone. You could probably see bone.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. Many victims never even made it to the
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: cross when they're flogged. And this is where we know
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: Jesus loses one-third of his blood volume from that flogging.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: 700 lashes. And that's why Isaiah 53, which is right
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: next to you, says, Isaiah sees that prophetically 700 years earlier.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: What do we have here? Okay.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: Sean, the Great Isaiah Scroll is right next to you
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: right now. This is a facsimile because the Israelis have
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: not allowed anyone to see it since 1968, by the way,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: the actual thing, until just recently, like within the last
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: few days. So anyone who's been to Israel, to the
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: Shrine of the Book, and my good friend Aldofa Reutemann
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: used to be the curator of the Shrine of the Book,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: so I know this because I've been there and knew
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: the curator. The facsimile, what you see in the Shrine
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: of the Book, is a facsimile. This is a facsimile
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: that my friends at Facsimile Editions produce in London, and
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: I want you to touch it. It's open to Isaiah 53,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: that is column 44 of the Book of Isaiah, and
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: you're looking at chapter 53, which most Jews won't read
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: in the synagogue because it's so prophetically accurate about what
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: happened to the Messiah. That's the entire Book of Isaiah.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: found in Qumran Cave 4. And this facsimile, from what
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: I know, what we have here at your studio, can
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: only be seen in the Vatican right now. It can
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: be seen at the National Library in Paris. It can
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: be seen at the Museum of the Bible. So we
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: have the same facsimile they have at the Museum of
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: the Bible in D.C., and we've got it right here
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: at the Sean Ryan Studio right now.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: Holy cow.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: So the value of it is off the charts. It's
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: 24 feet long. course, it's found at Qumran. It antedates
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: Jesus by 200 years, 250 years. And that is the
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: oldest witness that we have to the book of Isaiah. Again,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: showing the stability of the text. The next book that
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: we have of Isaiah is a thousand years later, and
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: it's essentially word for word correspondence later. And this also
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: shows how long books lasted. So this was at Qumran
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: for 250 years before Jesus. So These apostate Bible scholars
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: who act like the New Testament would have just evaporated,
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: one said, oh, within 20 years, we would have lost
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: the autograph. That just flies in the face of the facts.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: That's fake news. And so you read from right to left,
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: And that entire column you're looking at is Isaiah 53.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: These are sewn together?
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, with linen. And by the way, that's why that facsimile,
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: I think, is better than the one they have at
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: the Israel Antiquities Museum at the Shrine of the Book.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: You can feel the linen that binds the parchment together.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing? So if you kept going, you would...
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: By the way, if we kept unraveling it, we would
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: get to Isaiah where Jesus... Do you remember when Jesus
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: preaches in his home synagogue in Luke 4? He goes up...
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: and he preaches Isaiah 60 and he says, you know,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: I've come to help the oppressed. And he says, today,
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: this is fulfilled in your midst. And he sits down
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: after reading Isaiah 61, 1 and 2. He reads all
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: of Isaiah 61, 1 and 2, except the last verse,
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 1: the day of vengeance of our God. He sits down
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: and he says, this is fulfilled in your midst. And
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: in his own hometown, they want to kill him because
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: they immediately knew that he was quoting Isaiah 61, claiming
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: to be the Messiah. So if we kept unraveling, we're
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: at Isaiah 53, we would get to Isaiah 61, 1
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: and 2. Isn't that marvelous? Extremely rare. But I wanted
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: to bring that for you to have just an appreciation
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: of the incredible reliability and authenticity of what happened to
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: Jesus and an appreciation. I mean, this is written Isaiah
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: 700 years before Jesus. So that's the great Isaiah scroll.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: 700 years before.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: Before Jesus. And then that scroll itself would date to
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: 250 years before.
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: This stuff is fascinating.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just trying to up the game. I've got
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: to raise the stakes on any other guests you have
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: after me now.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: I think you've done it. I'm scared to touch some
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: of this stuff.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: But I want our audience to see, do you realize
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: that archaeology is Christianity's closest cousin? As I point out
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: in my book, Jesus Discoveries, you know, whereas every other
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: religion on earth, Islam included, avoids any interaction with archaeology.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: Christianity says, test our beliefs against history. If Jesus died
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: and rose from the grave, everything he said is true
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: and validated in an absolutely devastating text, 1 Corinthians 15, 7.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: If Jesus did not rise from the dead, people should
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: feel sorry for us. But Paul says in verse 20,
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: but he has risen from the dead. Remember, Paul saw
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: him on the way to Damascus. By the way, can
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: I mention something about the light factor back to the
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: nuclear moment? We were talking about 34,000 billion watts of
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: energy for the shroud image. Every time Jesus manifests himself
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: in the New Testament, he manifests himself with brilliant light.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Think about this for a minute. Transfiguration, brilliant light. Everybody
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: wants to stay there. They want to hang out there.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: Paul gives his testimony. He's on the way to Damascus,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: and he's going there to kill Christians. And do you
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: remember he has a vision of the physically resurrected Jesus?
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: And in the book of Acts, it says... It was
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: brighter than the noonday sun. Do you remember that evidential detail?
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: I have stood in first century roads and filmed on them,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: and it is hot. You're under the sun. It is bright.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: So he sees Jesus, and Jesus is brighter than the
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: noonday sun. In the book of Revelation, the Bible says
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: in the new heaven and the new earth, we'll have
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: no need of the sun because Jesus will give light
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: to everything. So isn't that fascinating?
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: We get just a glimmer, just a signpost of that
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: magnificent light that's left behind. And I do believe, Sean,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: that there is a new revelation tied to the emergence
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: of technology as we get closer to the second coming
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ. In other words, did God plan for
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: this to happen? I think so. I mean, photography is
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: not invented until the 1840s. Seconda Pia takes a picture
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: in 1898 and sees the shroud image of and it's negative.
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: I've actually seen his camera. It was on these big
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: glass plates. The exposures took 14 minutes and 20 minutes each.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: There was no power in the church, so he had
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: to use generators for the flash photography of 1898. He
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: was a lawyer. He was a Christian. He develops it,
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: and never more appropriately, when he sees the face of
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: Jesus in the negative, which is actually the photo positive,
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: he goes, oh my God, because he believed he was
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: looking at the face of Jesus for the first time
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: since the apostolic era.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: Wow. You know, where is the Shroud now? It's in Turin, Italy.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: It's not in the Vatican. It's in Turin, Italy. It's
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: in a reliquary. That's what they call it. This is
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: kind of interesting. The same company in Turin that develops
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: the materials for the International Space Station built the box,
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: which we call a reliquary. It's a religious term that
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: the Shroud is out. So it's totally unraveled. It's in
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: this reliquary that's about 15 feet long by about four
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: feet wide. And it's 99% argon gas, 1% oxygen. And
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: I have news. I have breaking news for your show.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: The image is fading.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: What does that mean?
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: The image is going away.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: Light and oxygen are its greatest enemies. And so this
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: is why the Catholic Church is reticent. This is why
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 1: they say they're reticent. to show it to the public.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: This is why during the recent Catholic Jubilee, the shroud
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: was not brought out. We had to look at a
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: video of it for those that went to Turin. The
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: shroud has not been on display very often. The Catholic
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: Church has never actually come out, and I've published this,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: this is accurate, and said that they actually believe it
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: was Jesus' burial cloth. They're supportive of it to an extent.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: I asked to interview Archbishop Rapolle when I was in Turin.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: I was turned down because I wanted to ask Why
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 1: aren't we showing this? I believe the shroud is the
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: greatest scientific evidence that we have for the resurrection of Jesus.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, the whole point is to.
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: Evangelize.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: Why would you hide it?
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Why would you not let people see it?
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 2: If you didn't believe it was his, then why would,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, definitely why wouldn't you expose it to the public?
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: Right, and this is where I want to help correct people.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: People give the Catholic Church a little too much credit
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: The Eastern Orthodox Church protected the shroud for the first
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: thousand years in Constantinople and beyond. The shroud did not
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: come into Catholic possession until 1985. Are you serious? Yes,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: I'm dead serious. I published all of this in the
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: Jesus Discoveries. It was bequeathed to Pope John Paul II
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: upon the death of the Savoy family, and they literally
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: gave the shroud to the Catholic Pope. to be the
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: custodian of it. So the Shroud technically does not belong
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: to the Catholic Church. It belongs to the Pope himself.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: I happened to be there at Conclave, which was a
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: unique experience in turn, because the Shroud was essentially orphaned
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: at that point. I met with Enrico, who changes the
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: gas twice a year in the Shroud. And even the
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: blood is fading. And so they're very concerned about that.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: They're concerned about the image fading. But still, why wouldn't
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: you just bring it out and show it? I mean,
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: we have all this technology now. We have lights that are,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's ways we can do that. And this
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: is where I'm so thankful that your show is bringing exposure.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: You have the greatest evangelism discipleship tool on earth, the
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: Shroud of Turin, and the public needs to see it.
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Anyone can do a chat GTP search and say, show
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: me the exact days that the Shroud has been publicly displayed.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: And they'll be shocked. It's fewer than 30 days over
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: the last several hundred years.
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: Fewer than 30 days in over 100 years?
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: So I would encourage the Catholic Church and Pope Leo,
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: who I signed a letter to, to bring it out,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: let people see it, let people make up their own minds,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: and not allow the Centro, that's the group in Italy
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: that gives leadership to who sees it and who doesn't.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: So I'm very concerned about it and I want it
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: to be shown. And by the way, I want to
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: say this, the shroud doesn't belong to the Catholic church.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 1: It belongs to the unified church. It belongs to every
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: believer in Jesus Christ. So yeah, it did not come into,
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: and Barry Schwartz made this clear. I was the editor
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: of a journal, academic journal, which I summarize in my book.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: And Barry made that very clear. It is not a
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: Catholic relic. So many people, especially what you might call
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: Protestants or evangelical Christians, They don't want to know anything
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: about the Shroud because, oh, that's a Catholic relic. No,
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: it didn't come into the hands of the Catholic Church
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: until the 1980s. I don't believe the Catholic Church would
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: have ever allowed it to be studied. Remember, it was
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: still in private family hands in 1978 when the Shroud
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: of Turin Research Project studied it. The family that owned
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: the Shroud allowed it. And that's not my opinion. That
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: was Barry Schwartz's opinion, who I now believe, having met everyone.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: So if you have this great tool, why not make
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: it available?
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: That's a great question. I mean, I wonder what else
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: they're hiding.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: And why not use it again? So I want to
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: say that, and there are amazing Catholic people out there
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: like my friends at Athonia who have great exhibits who
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: I partner with. I mean, there are people out there
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: trying to change this, but they're all dying, Sean. I mean,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: I spoke at the annual scientific, it was at the
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: Augustan Institute the International Shroud of Turin.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: Conference.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: I was honored to be asked to speak and everybody
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: there is much older than us. So all of these
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: scientists are beginning to die and their knowledge is dying
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: with it. So that's why I'm doing everything in my
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: power to raise up this information.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you for what you're doing.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me bring this information. I was
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: a skeptic. I'm not now. And I'm also thrilled that
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: I'm not the only Bible scholar that's believing in it.
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: My Dr. Father, Craig Evans, who's the finest Jesus scholar
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: in the English-speaking world, he has 700 publications on Jesus,
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: without a doubt believes in the authenticity of the shroud.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: Archaeologist Scott Stripling, who has the largest archaeological dig in Israel,
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: without a doubt believes that the shroud is authentic. Paul Foster,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: the greatest Bible scholar in Britain, Bart Ehrman told me that,
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: believes that the Shroud is authentic. What's weird, though, is
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: so many Bible scholars are agnostic about the Shroud because
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: they're minimalists and they've never really looked into the data.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: They stay in their academic silos and they don't get
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: out of it. And so I'm also speaking to all
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: those Bible.
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: Scholars out there. Come on, man.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: Bro, we've got more evidence for the resurrection. We have
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: scientific evidence. And what's cool, so we have traveled, Christian thinkers,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: we've been on a tour of We did the display
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: at Prestonwood. Tens of thousands of people showed up at
• 1:29:56
  Speaker 1: my church. So I thought, man, like the Braille system,
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: if it works here, we ought to take this everywhere.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: So whether it's WEF, whether it's Lubbock, Texas, whether it's Nashville, Tennessee,
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be at a great church this weekend
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: with 50 artifacts. We never charge a dime for it.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: It's all free. People come every day. They can bring
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: their friends and their neighbors. We have pop-up banners. We
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: have a bronze statue of Jesus that is just beautiful.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: We have what you just saw. We have the actual shroud.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: Then we have the Isaiah scroll. We have other things
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: as well. And people can see it for themselves. And
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: I've seen children come to faith in Christ. And I
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: have seen the jet propulsion scientist when we were at
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: Greg Laurie's church in Southern California, walk through and say,
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: everything he said here is accurate. He's working on the
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: Mars project.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: By the way. How many people have you seen this convert? Thousands. Thousands?
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: I have been in the game in ministry for a
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: long time. And I've been privileged to travel the world.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: As you mentioned in the intro, I've probably held more
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: Bible manuscripts in my hand than 90% of the Bible
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: scholars alive today. I worked in the Griffith Papyrology Lab
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: at the Ashmolean. We can't call it the Sackler Library
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: anymore because of the Sackler Oxycontin family. They took the
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: name off it. But it was the Sackler when I
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: was there. Back in 2009 to 12. So, I mean,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: I've held great Bible manuscripts. I've seen, you know, what
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: you're holding. I mean, it's so inspirational. But nothing like
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: the Shroud has ever had the conversion rate ever that
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: I've been part of. It is the greatest discipleship tool,
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: meaning if you've read the Bible a thousand times, you're
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: going to learn more about how much God loves you.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: But if you're a skeptic who needs proof, like we
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: all do, I wake up every day as a skeptic
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: and I need to be reminded of God's love for me.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: And I need to be reminded of the proof of
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: the resurrection, the many infallible proofs of the resurrection. You
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: walk out of there utterly convinced. We were just at
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: an event in Cincinnati. I'll never forget this man weeping,
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: physically shaking, saying, it's true. It's true. I never saw it.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: It's a calculation and it all comes together. And this
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: data has been suppressed. I want to make this very clear.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 1: Something I also learned, my friend Tristan Casablanca gave his life.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: You'll find this interesting, Sean. The British Museum suppressed the
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: raw data of the carbon dating for 27 years. So
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: the carbon dating is done in 1988. We do need
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: to mention this because all the people will comment, well,
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: what about the carbon dating? No one should use the
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: carbon dating from 1988 as a reason to think that
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: the shroud is a hoax. So in 1988, carbon dating
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: is done on the top left corner of the shroud.
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: I showed you the top left corner of the shroud,
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: the Reyes fragment area. The scientists said, please date it,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: but whatever you do, don't use the edges. Don't use
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: the fringes. I don't know if you could tell, even
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: on our replica, We actually reinforced it with gaff tape
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: because it's a shroud. It will fall apart. It needs
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: to be patched. And so we know, based under the microscope,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: that there are cotton fibrils that are weaved in with
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: the fine linen to keep it from just totally... But
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: it's fine linen throughout it. But the edges, they had
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: to reinforce. Seven laboratories were supposed to do the carbon dating.
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: Only three did. Zurich, Oxford, and Arizona. Why seven?
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: We don't know.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: Then they get up on the chalkboard and they write
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: 1260 to 1390. And one of the guys just sits
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: there like this. Of course, one of the guys got
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: a $ 5 million endowed chair immediately, by the way, after this.
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: You can look it up for yourself. Very specious. Why
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: did he get a $ 5 million endowed chair after 1260
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: to 1390? Somebody should find out. Someone should do a
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: PhD on that. So they write that. And then the
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: British Museum suppresses the raw data of the carbon dating
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: for 27 years. And Tristan, my buddy, he's a French guy,
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: amazing man, great scholar. He does the equivalent of a
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act to finally get the raw data
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: to know, like, what did you test? How did you
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: test it? Do you know what he published? He published,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: and I want to be technical, The samples they used
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: for the carbon dating are not homogenous with the shroud itself.
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: We don't even know if they tested the actual shroud, Sean.
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: Are you serious? Yes.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 1: Tristan Casciablanca pointed this out. So in a 2019 Journal
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: of Archaeometry published in Oxford, people can go look this
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: stuff up. This is not conspiracy stuff. Go be a reader.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: You know, learn from everyone, but don't let anyone think
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: for you, okay? Go read the 2019 Journal of Archaeometry,
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: where they say we can no longer take any value,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: there is no value to the carbon dating because it
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: was so corrupted, it was so poisoned. They probably did,
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 1: they used a patch sample that is not homogenous with
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: the shroud that we have. So again, if you're a
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: thinking person.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: That's a demonic attack in itself.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: It is. Why the suppression? from the British Museum, why
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: does the Catholic Church not show the shroud more often?
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: They need to. This is scientific proof of the resurrection.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: And so I think it's why every time now I
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: mention the shroud, it goes viral. There is a hunger
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: for this information. There is a hunger in the algorithm.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: People want proof and that's okay. And we have it.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: Why do you think, when did we find out that
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: the image on the shroud is fading?
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 1: I just found that out in Turin last May when
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: I went and met with Enrico, who changes the gas.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: I have it on video.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: When did they figure this out?
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't ask when, but he... And again, I haven't
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: checked that. That was the reason that I was upset
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: that they were not showing the shroud publicly. And again,
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: I asked to meet with Archbishop Rapolle and was declined
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: an interview. So I have this on my YouTube channel
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: where Enrico says that the blood is fading, the image
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: is fading... I have Bruno Barberis saying there's a one
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: in 200 billion chance. I have Paulo de Lazaro saying
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: the 34,000 billion watts of energy. I mean, it's great stuff.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: But that's where I learned that the image is fading.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: And so what are we gonna do? Just let it
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: fade away before we show it to the next generation?
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's just, I find it odd.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: It's bizarre.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: Because it's, you know.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: But scientists will at me and be like, well, you
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: have to know, you've got, you know, oxygen and light
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: are the greatest enemy. Well, oxygen and light are the
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: greatest enemy of any artifact.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: Should we just not show any artifacts? It's been here
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: for two years.
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: Bizarre. Yeah.
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: It's bizarre. And so it took a family, a wealthy family,
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: by the way. The Catholic Church did nothing for the Jubilee.
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: And the family, they're incredible. They're an amazing family. And
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember their name. I apologize.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: I can't.
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: They put together an amazing exhibit, a private, wealthy Catholic
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: family in the courtyard of Turin where they created a
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: a virtual experience of the Shroud because the Catholic Church
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 1: didn't do anything for it.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: Explain why bone boxes matter for reading the New Testament.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: Okay. I love bone boxes.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: Okay. I don't know what this means.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: If you go to the land of Israel, if you
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: go to the Mount of Olives, one of the most
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 1: famous spots, you're going to see the beautiful Mount of Olives.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: You're going to see the Dome of the Rock. You're
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: going to see the Kidron Valley. You're going to see
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: the Eastern Gate, which the Mooks which the Muslims walled
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: up because they know that when Messiah returns, he's going
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: to step foot on the Mount of Olives and go
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: through the Eastern Gate and proclaim himself the Messiah as
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: he should. So there's bone boxes all over the Mount
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: of Olives, 150,000. A bone box is a box that
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: you put bones in. It's called an ossuary. And the
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: Jews practice a process, which I point out because I
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: have a whole chapter, because we believe we have James,
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: the brother of the Lord's bone box. This is another
• 1:38:23
  Speaker 1: evidence for Jesus outside the Bible. It says, James, the
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: son of Joseph, the brother of Jesus. No other bone
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: box would say who your brother was. And this is incised.
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: It was discovered in 19, excuse me, in 2002. And
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: of course made massive headlines. We actually have James's bone box.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: And so here's what would happen, Sean. If you and
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: I were brothers and I died, you would put me
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: in a tomb. And about a year later on the
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: anniversary of my death, when my flesh had decayed, you
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: would collect my bones in a process called oscillagium.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: That's Latin.
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: That literally just means bone collection. And you would put
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: my bones in our family bone box. Guess how long
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: the bone box is? It's as long as your femur,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: the longest bone in your body. Turns out the family
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: buried together stays together. And so you would bury me
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: with like dad and maybe a sister or brother, and
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: that process is called oscillegium. And so burial was a
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: sacred tradition in Judaism. And so that's why you have
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: these bone boxes, these ossuaries is what they're called. I
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: have filmed in the teardrop church on the eastern side
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: of the Mount of Olives with all of these bone boxes.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's ground zero for Matthew 27 when other
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: Christians came out of the tomb besides Jesus. And so
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: why that matters for Jesus and for the New Testament
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: Helps us understand that Jesus was buried properly in a
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: known tomb. People would have known where he was buried.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: They mourned the dead for seven days. Shiva, they would worship.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 1: All first century tombs, by the way, look like my hand.
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 1: If you enter, you put the stone here, you would
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: worship inside. And then the niches are where the bodies
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: would be laid. And we actually have James. Think about this.
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: James was a skeptic of his brother, Jesus. Do you
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: have a brother by chance? I do.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: So I have four sons. What would it take for
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: you to believe your brother was the son of God?
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: It would take a lot.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: People always normally laugh when I ask this. I have
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: four boys. I break up anarchy on a daily basis.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: None of them think that the other one's the son
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: of God. And this was true in Jesus's day. In
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: Mark 6, they literally think Jesus is insane. In Mark 3, 21,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: they take offense at him. They actually accuse him of
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: being a bastard, you know, a son of iniquity. In
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: John 7, verse 5, it explicitly says, not even his
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: brothers believed in him. So here's what we have to
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: ask ourselves. This is one of the proofs of the resurrection.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: How do people go from being hostile to Jesus to
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: being willing to die for the belief that he physically
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: rose from the grave? 1 Corinthians 15, 7 says, And
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: he appeared to James. I love this appearance. I could
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: see it. I want to set it up for you.
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: I could see it in my mind's eye. You know,
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: James has always been humiliated by older brother Jesus, crazy guy,
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: thought he was a Messiah, got crucified. And James is
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 1: just working in the wood shop, you know, the stone shop.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, Jesus appears before him. Bro, bro,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: check out my side. They got me good. Check out
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: my wrists. James becomes what Paul says, a pillar of
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: the church. He becomes the pastor of the church of Jerusalem,
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: which probably ran 10 to 20,000 people. Josephus, a first
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: century historian, tells us in AD 62, James, the brother
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: of Jesus in Antiquities 20, dies believing his brother is
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: the son of God.
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: Because he saw Jesus physically alive after he was dead.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: That's why bone boxes are important. And we have James's
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: bone box. And that's one of the top 10 discoveries
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: in my book that bring us face to face with Jesus.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. At the start of 2026,
• 1:42:33
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  Speaker 2: slash SRS. That's betterhelp.com slash SRS. What other kind of
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: discoveries do you have in there?
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: Dude, magic texts. Jesus's name. Can we talk about healing
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: and exorcism for a minute? Oh, yeah. Okay. This is
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: so cool. Um, I've never actually had, this is really
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: fun to talk about. Cause you know, you, you write
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: a book. Have you written a book before? You probably
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: have like, you know, I have not written a book. Okay.
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: Well you need to the whole time you'll wonder like,
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: will anyone ever read this? Does anyone care? Well, this
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: book is already made.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 3: No.
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay. We need to change that. We need your book.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 1: We need you in the author space. Um, but what's
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: cool about these discoveries is so many of them have
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: already made headlines. I mean, a popular mechanics did a story.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: on one of the discoveries of my book, and it
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: was the Jesus Cup. Have you heard of the Jesus Cup?
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 2: No, I haven't. Bro.
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: Frank Baggio, who I have total permission... And by the way,
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: this book is so cool because my nine-year-old's looking at it,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: and there's pictures in it, which was a total labor
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: of love to get these pictures, but I want to
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: show you, I want to hand you this, because I
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 1: want you to see a picture of what I'm talking about.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: This is so cool, man. So, look, can I hand
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: you this book? I want you to see the picture
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: of the Jesus Cup. You are looking... Sean Ryan, at
• 1:44:59
  Speaker 1: the earliest artifact that we have of the name of
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 1: Jesus on it. It dates to 8050. It was just
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: discovered in Alexandria by Frank Gaudio, who is a marine biologist.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 1: He does archaeology underwater. And that cup, if I can
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: say it in Greek, if you don't mind, says, through Jesus,
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: the enchanter or the magician.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: Jesus's name.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: Is so powerful that it was actually inserted in pagan charms, spells,
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: and incantations. Because his name was known in his lifetime
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: throughout the Mediterranean world that if you just insert this
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: name of Jesus, demons are afraid and healings happen. And
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: that is a convivial cup. You notice that it looks
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: like one of the handles has been broken off. So
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: This could have even been used as even a paganism.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: But they literally, through Jesus, the magician, be healed. And
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: so I explain that. And so that cup, the actual
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: incised cup, dates.
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: To AD 50.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: That's before the Gospels are written.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: And then if you flip a few pages, we have
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: other magic spells written. that insert the name of Jesus
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: in incantations. If you wanted to give your boss insomnia,
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: you would put a phylactery in his house, and in
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 1: the name of Jesus, you're gonna have insomnia. Or if
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: you wanted a woman to fall in love with you,
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: they would insert the name of Jesus to try to
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: get a woman. The point is, Jesus is made famous
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: because he was a miracle worker and an exorcist. Remember,
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: Jesus could exorcise demons even over long distance. He could
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: heal people over long distance. And so what's fascinating about this,
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: remember Luke 7 22, talk about someone who needed proof.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: This is very important. Again, we cannot read the New
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: Testament with Western 21st century eyes. You and I, what
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to do is take you on a journey.
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: We're doing experiential archeology right now. I want you to
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: experience the context, the CIA method, by the way, of
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 1: Bible reading. Oh boy. Can I give you the CIA
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: method of Bible reading since you're CIA? context.
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not CIA. Don't start spreading that around.
• 1:47:27
  Speaker 1: I'm kidding with you. So CIA method of Bible study,
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: this is so helpful. This is how you always read
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: the Bible. Context, interpretation, application. What's the context? Get me
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: in the world of Jesus. Then I'll know the interpretation,
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: so then I can apply it to my life. That's
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: what you should ask yourself every time you read the Bible.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: So we're doing context right now. Luke 7, 22. Josephus
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: tells us, that John the Baptist is being held in
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: prison at Machaerus. The Bible doesn't tell us that, Josephus,
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: the first century historian does. Remember, John the Baptist was
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: the forerunner who literally baptized Jesus and said, that's the
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: Lamb of God. This is Isaiah 40, by the way.
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: If we go right to Isaiah 40, it's amazing how
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: much Isaiah shows up in the New Testament. Behold, the
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: But he's having doubts, Sean, like we all do. And
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: here's what I want to tell people. Never shame someone
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 1: who's having doubts. Sharpen them. John the Baptist's disciples come
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 1: to Jesus. And do you remember what they say in
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: Luke 7, 22? John the Baptist is wondering if you're
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: really the guy, bro. What does Jesus say? He doesn't
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: shame him. He sharpens him. He said, let him know
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: I'm doing my work, the blind see, the deaf are healed,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: and the dead, necros agairo, the dead stand up alive.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: And so Jesus, remember this, is known as a famous
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: exorcist and miracle worker. Sean, 25% of the Roman Empire
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: was sick, dying, or in need of immediate medical attention
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: on any given day of Jesus's ministry. No wonder the
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: crowds flocked to him to be healed. So he's known
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 1: as an exorcist. He's known as a famous healer. Where
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: would people go? You'd have to pay for your healing.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: You know, if we didn't know Jesus and we're brothers
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: in the first century, we got to go to that
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: temple of Asclepius. That's where we get the, you know,
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: the medical symbol of the staff and the snakes. That's
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: all from Asclepius. You had to pay for healing and
• 1:49:31
  Speaker 1: do crazy chants. And you mean Jesus heals people for free?
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: You mean he doesn't use another name? He just says,
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: come out, shut up. Demons fear him and he doesn't charge.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: That's how he became famous. And so my second that
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: brings us face to face with Jesus is it brings
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: us face to face with a savior who heals. And
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: there have been more documented miracles in the last 50
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: years than the previous 300 years combined. My citation on
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: that is Craig Keener, and he's a classicist, dear friend
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: of mine. Two-volume work on miracles. You should have him.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: He's amazing. And also J.P. Moreland. We've had more documented
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 1: miracles in the last 50 years than probably the last
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: 300 years combined.
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: What's the one that stands out to you the most,
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: if there is one? I have two.
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: May I share two? Absolutely.
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: My wife and I couldn't get pregnant for five years.
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: And God blessed us with five kids. I think people
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: prayed too hard because we have triplets now. So, um,
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: that's a miracle. And then secondly, my dad, who's my
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: best friend was within days of dying. Um, he went
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: from being fine running and he was calling me and dad,
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: your face is red. And, um, You don't look good.
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: And I have one of these concierge doctors. I travel
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: all the time. When I need meds, I need them now.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: So it's like, dad, you need to talk to my doctor.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 1: He had stage four lymphoma and was within days of death.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: And his doctor looked at him and said, well, I
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: think you're going to die, sir. And I won't tell
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: you what I said in my mind, but I said,
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: you're fired. I transferred my dad to the med center
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: in Houston. And I saw God heal my dad of
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: stage four cancer. No way. And he's doing amazing now.
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: And he had days to live. I don't know if
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: you've ever been in a situation. This was odd for me.
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: I hadn't been where doctors tell you not to leave
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: town because I was living in Dallas, you know, and
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: I'm in Houston with my dad and they're saying, you
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: can't leave. You may not make it. And I saw
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: God heal my dad.
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: So I've seen miracles in my own life. But the
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: greatest miracle of all is the physical bodily resurrection of Jesus.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: That's what they all emanate from.
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 2: Man. Let's talk about coin stones and governors.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: Okay. Let's talk about everybody who wanted to kill Jesus,
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: shall we? So I have here, and by the way,
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: I have some cool friends like you, um, I have
• 1:52:20
  Speaker 1: a good friend named J.R.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: Bizzle.
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: He's like a treasure hunter. I'm going to shout out
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 1: to him because, you know, finding artifacts is not easy.
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: You know, there's not a manual on this. You have
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: to make sure they're authentic. Sometimes you've got to get
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: them through Zurich for different reasons. And it's just an
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: interesting world of antiquities. By the way, like ISIS made
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: $ 100 million selling stolen artifacts on the black market. I
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: don't know if you knew that.
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah. In fact, when I was a professor in Canada–
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: Acadia I had a CBC reporter who was embedded with
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: Isis clandestine and she sent me a picture of a
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: Jewish magic book it had a bunch of Jewish spells
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: and I had a mummified bat that Isis had stolen
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: and was trying to sell so the whole antiquities market
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: is challenging you've got a that's where you need experts
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: like me that can check authenticity so I have here
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: some coins that I want to show you of all
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: the people that tried to kill Jesus okay I've heard
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: the great I have Augustus, I have Tiberius, and I
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: want you to hold these in your hand. Because here's
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: why coins are important. Let me just show you this.
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: This is so amazing.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 2: You call them the social media of the old world
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 2: or something, correct?
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 1: Coins are the social media of Jesus's world. I love
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: this because if you and I went back in time
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: right now, we don't have a reel. We don't have
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: a feed to tell us who's in power or who
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: the local deity is, the local God. We don't know
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: who's enslaved. We don't know who's in charge. And so
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 1: all I had to do, if I got some money
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: in my hand, I could immediately say, oh, okay, Augustus. Oh, okay, Tiberius. Oh,
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 1: that makes sense. I want you to hold these. These
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: are gold ariuses.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: Check these out.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: These are legit. These are very expensive, not cheap. And
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: what's fascinating about them is those, Augustus is the Roman
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: emperor who Luke names. He is emperor when Jesus is born.
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: We know that from the Gospel of Luke. Tiberius is
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: the emperor who crucifies Jesus of Nazareth. Now, Sean, this
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: is what is so cool about doing experiential archaeology. So
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: right now, you're looking at the social media of Jesus' day.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: If you look at the Tiberius one, it literally says
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: in Latin, Tiberius, son of Augustus, son of God. On
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: the backside of the Tiberius coin, I don't know if
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: you can make it out Pontiff Maxim. Can you kind
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 1: of make that out around the circle? Pontiff Maxim of
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: the Tiberius one, Pontifex Maximus. What does that mean in Latin?
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: High priest. So when I open up the Greek New Testament,
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: which I have Codex Vaticanus here, I'm going to show
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: you in a minute. When I open up the Greek
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: New Testament and I read the first verse of the
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: Gospel of Mark, which was the first gospel, the beginning
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: Do you realize, if you and I were in town
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: in the first century, there was only one Son of God,
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: and it was Tiberius. To say anyone else was the
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: Son of God would be to sign your death warrant.
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: And Mark comes along, and he says, in arcane euangelion,
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: The beginning of the good news of the gospel of
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, the true son of God. You talk about
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: a seditious thing. That's how he started his gospel, bro.
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: It was like, no, Tiberius isn't the son of God.
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: And then you flip the coin and you see he's
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: called the high priest. Wait a minute, no. According to
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: the New Testament, Jesus is our great high priest. According
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: to Hebrews, he ever lives to make intercession for us.
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: Jesus is the true chief priest. not Tiberius, not Caesar.
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: The word gospel is a Roman term. It's not a
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: Christian term. We literally hijacked it. If you wanted to
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 1: hear the gospel in the first century, we'd see something
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: like nailed to a tree. This is the gospel of
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: Tiberius or Augustus. This is an important good news announcement. No,
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: the true gospel is that Jesus died according to the scriptures,
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: that he was buried and on the third day rose
• 1:56:33
  Speaker 1: from the grave as the scriptures say.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: Are these originals?
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: Yes. That's why they're so expensive. So that's gold aureus.
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: 27 BC to 14 AD.
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, that was in circulation. Yeah, those are not replicas.
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 2: AD 14 to 37. Right.
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: And so now we're going to keep going here. Now,
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: this one is so cool. I just got this. I
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: haven't had a chance to.
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: So do you remember the passage when Jesus says, render
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: to Caesar what's Caesar's? Remember that? Can I hand you
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: an actual denarius? So that's an aureus. That's gold. I
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: want you to compare it. Hold on to these. This
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: is a denarius, silver, also of Tiberius, okay? So what's
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: cool about that, Sean, you're holding in your hands a,
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: from the time of Jesus, in circulation, a denarius. It's
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: denarii in plural, but denarius singular. And that has the likeness.
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: Do you remember Jesus holds it up? And he says,
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 1: whose likeness is on this? And the crowd says, well, Caesar's.
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: And that would have been Tiberius, literally. And that one
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: is really nice. Props to JR for finding it to me.
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you noticed, it has almost like
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: a green hue to it, like a rim. It's very,
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: very valuable. And that is from the first century reign
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: of Tiberius, because that's Tiberius on it. Here's the message. Yeah,
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: that likeness is Tiberius's. But do you remember what the
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: scripture says? You and I, we are made in the
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: image of God.
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 2: Not Tiberius.
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 1: So render under Caesar what Caesar's, but give me, this
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: is Jesus talking, your life. Isn't that powerful?
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: Sure, pay your taxes to Caesar. Give God your life
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 1: because his likeness, my likeness is stamped on you. Jesus
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: was a great teacher. I want to hand you something else.
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: This is so cool. I just got this, bro. Can
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: I hand you something else, Sean?
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: We're doing experiential archaeology.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: Hold this.
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: Again, not a replica from my antiquities dealer, Zach, in Jerusalem.
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: I want you to look. You're holding a Roman needle, okay? Okay?
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: Do you remember Jesus? Now, I want you to hold
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: it vertically. Do you see the circle there?
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right here. Yep.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: That's called the eye of the needle. Have you heard
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: when Jesus is asked, how can anyone be saved? How
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: can we be forgiven? Jesus says it's easier for a
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: rich man, or he said it's easier for a camel
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: to go through the eye of a needle than for
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. And
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 1: they asked, well, then who can be saved? He said,
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: with man, it's impossible. With God, all things are possible.
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: And he's talking about the miracle of grace. You can't
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: earn it. You can't deserve it. He paid the debt
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: that we could never pay for a debt he did
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: not owe. And you're holding in your hand the eye
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: of a needle. Isn't that powerful? We put our place,
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: now we're doing CIA. We're putting ourself in context. We're
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: interpreting it right, now saying, There's nothing I could do.
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: A camel can't go through the eye of the needle.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: I am desperate for what God has done for me already.
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: This is why I spell the gospel done, D-O-N-E. It's
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: not religion. It's not ritual. It's faith and trust in
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: an event that happened 2,000 years ago, Jesus' death and
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: resurrection on the cross. So when he said rich man,
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: he was talking about everyone. Everyone.
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 2: Why did he use that?
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: Well, rich, because there was a lot of health and
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: wealth prosperity gospel in the first century. This is why
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: people didn't believe Paul was an apostle. He had so
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: many problems. If you read 2 Corinthians 1, Paul's like,
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: you know, I have the sense of death within me.
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 1: I don't even want to go on living right now.
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: This is why we can be honest about our pain.
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: We don't live in our past, but we learn from it.
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: We can be honest about our suffering. Paul had so
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: many problems that they accused him of not really being
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: an apostle because how can God be with you? You
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: have so much adversity in your life. Because in Judaism
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: of that time, only the righteous were blessed. If you
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: had adversity, do you remember when they bring the, this
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: is a perfect example, John 9. Teacher, who sinned, this
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: boy or his parents, that he was born blind? John 9, 3.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: Jesus says, neither.
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 2: Neither.
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: But that the power of God could be made manifest
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: among you. And so there was a lot of health
• 2:01:25
  Speaker 1: and wealth gospel, which I detest to this day. And
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: Jesus is saying, if a rich man can't pay for it,
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: nobody can. Only my grace makes it possible. Wow. So
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: this is why context, you know, we have so many,
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: heresy happens in some churches every Sunday. Give me Jesus
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: in no context or the Bible in no context, and
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: I immediately become a heretic. That's why my job is
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: to build all of these portals to the past to
• 2:01:57
  Speaker 1: help us have a greater exegetical precision so we can
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: apply it to our life more easily. This is where
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: the bone boxes are important. I don't know if you
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: remember the part in the Gospels when Jesus says to
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: the young man, he wants to stay and bury his father,
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: and Jesus is like, no, you need to follow me now.
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: The dead will bury their dead. Remember he says that?
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: Because of our historical distance, we're like, wow, that's kind
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: of rude, Jesus. Let him bury his dad.
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: He was wanting to wait a year to follow Jesus
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 1: so he could collect his dad's bones and put them away.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: He was delaying his obedience. The only reason we know
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: that is I just gave you the context of archaeology. Oh,
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: now I get it. He was using that as a
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: delay mechanism. And Jesus is like, no, today is the
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: day of salvation. You need to follow me right now.
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: Doesn't that help?
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: It does. It does. Where are we going next?
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: Dude, I haven't even started yet. This is amazing. This
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: is a true story. Okay. I got to tell you this.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: I love stories. So, um, I've met so many awesome
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: people with the shroud and I have a really good friend,
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: Bob Chitwood. So he walks up to me one day
• 2:03:05
  Speaker 1: and he said, you know, I got into buying gold
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: during COVID and he said, I bought some gold and
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: can I just show you this coin? Cause I had
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: just bought a Herod bronze coin. that is a bronze
• 2:03:17
  Speaker 1: coin of Herod the Great from 37 BC. He was
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: the first one who tried to kill Jesus. And it's bronze,
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: it's not gold, but it says Herodu Basileu of Herod
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: the Great. That's an important thing I need to tell you.
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: All of these coins are in the genitive, meaning they
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: literally belong to the king. We're just kind of passing
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: them back and forth. Literally, this coin is his. You
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: just get to use it as currency. That's an important point.
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: That's where Jesus wants possession of us. He wants our life.
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: That's a little footnote. So I think I'm cool because
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: I'm handing Bob my bronze coin of Herod the Great,
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: and he hands me this. This is nicer than what
• 2:03:55
  Speaker 1: they have at the Hagia Sophia, okay? This is the
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: amazing Roman solidus from the late 7th century. This is
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: a solidus that has 200 points of congruence, correspondence, comparability.
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: with the face of the man of the shroud. I
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: want you to look at this. So Bob hands me this.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: I said, Bob, that looks just like the face in
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 1: the shroud. He's like, oh my gosh, how did I
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: not notice that? Look at that face. And tell me
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: if that does not look. And so Alan Wagner, by
• 2:04:33
  Speaker 1: the way, notice I keep citing myself. And by the way,
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: I have a whole section in the Jesus discoveries. This
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: is the first coin that ever had the face of
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: Jesus on it. and it matches the face of the shroud.
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: And again, this is 700 years before the carbon dating, okay?
• 2:04:51
  Speaker 1: So what was their source material if the shroud didn't exist?
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: And there's 200 points of congruence. And Alan Wagner from
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 1: Duke University proved that. Remember sketch artists, like if you've
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: committed a crime, they do a sketch? This goes way
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: beyond what's accepted in the court of law. to compare
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: the face on this Justinian Roman solidus with the face
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: of the shroud. So again, it's just yet another. We've
• 2:05:16
  Speaker 1: talked about pollen. We've talked about the correspondence with the gospels.
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: We've talked about AB blood. We've talked about the VP8
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: image analyzer. We've talked about the corruption in the data,
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: the suppression of the carbon dating. And now I'm showing
• 2:05:29
  Speaker 1: you the social media of the late 600s, which is
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: the coin, the Christ solidus that matches the face of
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: Jesus in the shroud. How much more proof do you need?
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 2: What is this on the back here?
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: That's actually Justinian. That's his humility. He's saying Christ is
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: Lord of all. I'm just his servant. He would later die.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 1: By the way, he's facing the Islamic conquest at this time,
• 2:05:59
  Speaker 1: big time, where Islam is killing every Christian they can
• 2:06:02
  Speaker 1: in the late 7th and early 8th century. The Umayyad
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: dynasty then puts together the Quran, of course, that falsely
• 2:06:10
  Speaker 1: claims Jesus was not crucified. And Ayah 4, Surah 157,
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: Ayah 4. So that's very important to point out what
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: he was facing culturally. And this is where he was
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: also likely protecting the shroud from Constantinople. And he was
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: bold enough to put Jesus on the money and say, no,
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: Jesus is Lord of all, not the caliphate. Pretty epic,
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: isn't it? All these stories. And yet all I'm doing
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: is guiding you by the hand. And right now we're
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: not in, last I check, we're not in some kind
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: of Christian trance. We're not privileging these things. We're looking
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: at these critically. We're looking at these through the lens
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: of history. We're not doing Christian history. It's like the
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: Battle of Franklin. I used to live in Franklin, Tennessee.
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: And what do we know? How do we know about
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: the Battle of Franklin? Bloodiest five hours of the Civil War.
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 1: Six Confederate generals are killed. Well, we have evidence and
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: we have eyewitness testimony. We have more evidence and eyewitness
• 2:07:11
  Speaker 1: testimony that Jesus rose from the grave than we do
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: the Battle of Franklin.
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: No kidding. Is that true? What about all the bones
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: and belt buckles and helmets and bullets and.
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: Eyewitness testimony. We have an embarrassment of riches of 5,800
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: fragments and manuscripts of the New Testament. We have all
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: of these archaeological finds. We have actual testimony from the
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: eyewitnesses who were hostile to the events. It is on
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: the same level as even the Caesars. That's what I'm
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: trying to get people to understand. We have early eyewitness
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: testimony of Jesus. We have 45 sources for Jesus of
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: Nazareth that prove over 120. facts about him within, and
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: I'll use Bart Ehrman's skeptical, within 100 years of the event.
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 2: Sheesh.
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: So yes, it is true.
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 2: Roger that.
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: Truth is stranger than fiction sometimes.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 2: I think people are finding that out every day since COVID. Yeah,
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 2: that's right. But, wow. What's this book here?
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 2: What is this?
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 1: This is, I cannot wait to show you this. Can't
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: believe what I went through to get it. Sean Ryan,
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: this is, I think, could be, likely, the oldest Bible
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 1: that we have. This is Codex Vaticanus. Now, this is
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: a facsimile. You can't hardly see the real one in
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: the Vatican Library. But 450 exact facsimiles were issued and
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: signed by Pope John Paul II on Christmas Day in 1999.
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 1: And we just acquired the facsimile of this ancient Greek
• 2:09:11
  Speaker 1: Bible that dates to 330 to 325. It is the
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: entire Bible in Greek, Old Testament, most of the New Testament.
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: I think it stops at Hebrews. Probably we've just lost
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: some pages. And this, again, shows the amazing stability of
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: our text. If I open this and read it alongside
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: your English Bible, there would be very few differences or
• 2:09:36
  Speaker 1: what we call variants. Certainly no contradictions. I want you
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: to hold this in your hand. Very few people have
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: ever held it. It weighs 16 pounds. Are you ready
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 1: for this?
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 2: There we go.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: Hold that baby and open it up.
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, man, this is cool.
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 1: So we believe the Catholic Church. We don't know how
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: they came into possession of it, but it might go
• 2:10:01
  Speaker 1: back to 1450s that we know they had it. They
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: were very cagey about Constantine Tischendorf and others seeing it.
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 1: And so that's why they finally issued these facsimiles, which,
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, have the holes in the pages. You can
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: see the colophons. It'll say Kata Markon, you know, according
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: to Mark. Kata Lukon, according to Luke. So you're holding
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: in your hands a Bible that is dated within five
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: years of the Council of Nicaea, Sean. Do you realize that?
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 1: This is the time of Constantine. This is the time
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: that for 300 years, Christians have been persecuted. The bishops
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: have been killed. The buildings have been destroyed. The Bibles
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: have been burned. And this is why we have Constantine's
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: mom who goes to restore the holy sites. One of
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: the things that came out of the Council of Nicaea.
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: And by the way, this would have been like a
• 2:10:57
  Speaker 1: martyr's club. They would have hobbled in there. They would
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: have had scars from the persecution they faced for their faith.
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: And this is Codex Vaticanus. which again shows us the
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: amazing reliability of our text.
• 2:11:13
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: And there's only 450 of these in the world. And
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: the sad part about it, WIFAC similes are important. So
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 1: few libraries allow individuals, pedestrians, laymen, non-experts to see These
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: great artifacts of our faith. And so that's why having
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 1: it today on the Sean Ryan Show is so epic,
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: so next level. I mean, I don't know of any
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: other podcast that would actually have Codex Vaticanus signed by
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 1: Pope John Paul II hanging out.
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: What are these stamps here? I don't want to hold
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 2: this up. I'm scared I'm going to break it.
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: You know what those are? This is hilarious. I'm so
• 2:11:58
  Speaker 1: impressed that you noticed that.
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 2: Are those like some kind of authenticity?
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 1: The Vatican librarian decided to stamp every page of the
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 1: original Codex Vaticanus. Can you believe that?
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 2: Are you serious?
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: Do you remember in Indiana Jones or The Last Crusade,
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 1: the guy who's like stamping and he keeps hearing things?
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: I often think of that. Yes, can you imagine that?
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: And so it's one of the great jokes.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: Why did they do that? It's like, it belongs to
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: the Vatican. Okay, thank you for stamping every page of
• 2:12:28
  Speaker 1: the most priceless Greek Bible we have in Christendom. I'm
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: glad you noticed that. It's just, again, one of the
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: funny things about biblical scholarship. So that would be the
• 2:12:40
  Speaker 1: Old Testament. And then to the right would be the
• 2:12:44
  Speaker 1: New Testament. It's fascinating. The ending of Mark... which I
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 1: could find, ends at verse eight, not at verse 20.
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 1: Can you read all this? Oh, absolutely.
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 2: How does this translate? Have you done that exercise?
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 1: I have to. Yeah, to do what I do, I
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 1: have to. So this is written in Greek, uncial. These
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: are majuscules. That's, again, how we date it. So what
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: I am an expert in is codicology and paleography, how
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: we date manuscripts based on handwriting style. So previously unprovenanced.
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 1: I can try to find it for you. Um, previously,
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: like my PhD was in a previously unprovenanced, uh, second
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: century fragment called the Gospel of Peter, the Achmem gospel fragment.
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: And so notice there's no chapters and there's no verses
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: and there's no spacing between the words and it's all
• 2:13:34
  Speaker 1: written in Greek capitals. This tells us how the antiquity
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: of the text, this tell, you know, the, the chapters
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: don't come around. I think it's Stephen Langton, the Archbishop
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: of Canterbury. in like 1227. He's the first one who
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: actually adds chapters to the Bible. And then we don't
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: get versification of the Bible until the 1500s. So yes,
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 1: I can read it. And the beautiful thing about it
• 2:14:00
  Speaker 1: is it's just like the modern English translations.
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 2: That we have.
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. But like, I mean, think about this. What
• 2:14:09
  Speaker 1: you're holding in your hand, I mean, some of the
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 1: greatest Christian thinkers of all time would not have even
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: known it existed. They would not have had this. I mean,
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 1: The King James Bible, which Erasmus put together, is based
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 1: on the Textus Receptus, which was like six Greek fragments.
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's amazing. This is why I say the
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: embarrassment of riches that we have in the textual tradition
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 1: of the Bible. This is where I say that if
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: we cannot believe in the reliability of Jesus in the
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 1: eyewitness testimony, we should not believe that Caesar crossed the
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 1: Rubicon in 49 BC because we have better evidence for it.
• 2:14:47
  Speaker 2: Wow. Where did he sign the... where did he sign this?
• 2:14:50
  Speaker 1: It's in the Prolegomena, which is the book that came
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: with it. It explains what it was, why it was done,
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: why there are only 450 in the world. They're very
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: difficult to come by now.
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 2: I'll bet they are.
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: Amazing. So this is Codex Vaticanus B. The only competitor
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 1: as far as maybe the... is Codex Siniticus. which you
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 1: can go see in the British Library for free, although
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: a ceiling fell down in St. Catherine's Monastery and more
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: of Codex Sinaiticus was found in Egypt. And that one
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: is four columns, whereas you saw that one's three columns.
• 2:15:31
  Speaker 1: So they compete with each other as far as which
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: may be the oldest. But the point is we have
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: this amazing tradition. This would be 200 years before the Ge'ez,
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: the Ethiopic Bible. I mean, we have... Um, we have
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: just such a great manuscript tradition. We have a great
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: text basis for our faith that gives us again, early
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 1: eyewitness testimony of Jesus. And when I'm doing history, when
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: I'm doing history, historiography, I'm looking for early eyewitness testimony,
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 1: not certainty. I'm looking for probability.
• 2:16:06
  Speaker 2: You just brought up the Ethiopian Bible.
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give this back to you. Okay. I've
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: got to show you.
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 1: Can I show you one thing, Sean? This is so cool.
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: Let me just see here. Every time a book begins. Oh,
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 1: this is so cool. It has a start with the color. Yeah,
• 2:16:27
  Speaker 1: there's the crazy Vatican stamp on every page.
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is on every page.
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, literally, we know it's at the Vatican. Thank you.
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: We understand. Yeah, it's just amazing. And we have these
• 2:16:39
  Speaker 1: colophons on here.
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: They.
• 2:16:43
  Speaker 1: One of the really fascinating things is called the nomina sacra.
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 1: These are called sacred names. You'll often see the first
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 1: letter and the last letter of Iesus or Christos, and
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: it's like an abbreviation. And they would only put it
• 2:16:58
  Speaker 1: for like me, it would be like J and H, Jeremiah,
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: my first letter, last letter of my name with a
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 1: line over. And that's a nomina sacra or nomum sacrum
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 1: in singular. It was a sacred name, so they wouldn't
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: write it all the way out just out of deference
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 1: for the Spirit, God, Jesus, Christ, Kurios, the Lord. And
• 2:17:21
  Speaker 1: that's how we know, oh, they're talking about Jesus here.
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: Isn't that cool? So there's a whole scribal tradition that
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: goes along with this beautiful text. And so, you know,
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad that we're actually going to have this
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: on display over Easter at Prestonwood. And you can see
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 1: there's even holes. I don't know if you noticed that. Oh,
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 1: I noticed. We don't know how it got there. But
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: it did. Yeah, just absolutely amazing.
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you for breaking all this.
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for letting
• 2:17:52
  Speaker 1: me show the world this. So this is Codex Vaticanus B.
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: People need to know how special our scriptures are. that
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: people bled and died so we could have the Bible.
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 1: So you might want to bring it to church with you.
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 1: You might want to open it once in a while.
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 1: It's amazing. If you read the Bible four days a week,
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 1: it radically changes your life.
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 2: I can't remember what I was watching, but it just,
• 2:18:21
  Speaker 2: it was, um, or maybe it was at, you know what?
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 2: I think it was a church and I can't remember
• 2:18:26
  Speaker 2: exactly what the, what he was saying, but he was
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 2: talking about, um, like, I think it was like percentage of, uh, like, Depression, maybe,
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 2: or something, and he had it broken downwards if you
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: read it once a week.
• 2:18:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's accurate.
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 2: You know, if you read it twice a week.
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: Yep, that's a very real story.
• 2:18:45
  Speaker 2: Four times a week.
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 1: Was the key.
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 2: Was the key number. That's right.
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 1: And it only takes 70 hours to read the whole Bible.
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 2: Just so you know. It's taking me a lot longer
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 2: than that.
• 2:18:57
  Speaker 1: It's all right, though. No shame in the game. Like,
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: reading it, you can read the whole thing in 70 hours,
• 2:19:02
  Speaker 1: and I remember the first time.
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 2: Reading, it's not the problem for me. It's comprehending what
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 2: is being said.
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 1: So I just need to have me back more often.
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 1: I'll guide you by the hand. All right.
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 2: I will make that happen. But I want to do
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 2: the Ethiopian Bible. I've heard about it. Yeah. It sounds
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 2: like there's maybe some conspiracies around it or something. What
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 2: is it? What makes that so special? Why is there
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 2: so much interest in that?
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know why, to be honest with you, but
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 1: I can share some speculative ideas. Those of us that
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: know that study scripture tradition know that there are unique
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 1: and interesting expressions of Christianity all over the world. The
• 2:19:47
  Speaker 1: Ethiopic and Coptic Christians, which are so similar, and even
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: Syriac Christians have unique traditions to their Old Testament canon.
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: When we talk about the Bible, We're talking about a library, Sean.
• 2:20:02
  Speaker 1: And we're talking about a very carefully chosen library. But
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: we're also talking about even a canon within a canon.
• 2:20:09
  Speaker 1: Let me give you a couple of examples. And if
• 2:20:12
  Speaker 1: you go to Bethlehem, to the Church of the Nativity,
• 2:20:15
  Speaker 1: many people miss this. And if you go downstairs, there's
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: a little grotto. And that is where Jerome in the
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 1: late 4th century translates what becomes the Bible of 1,000 years.
• 2:20:26
  Speaker 1: It's called the Latin Vulgate. who knows like the manuscripts
• 2:20:30
  Speaker 1: he would have had in the 300s to work from.
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 1: But the lingua franca became Latin. It was Romanized. And
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: he is going back and forth with the Pope because
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: there are these books called the Apocrypha that the Pope
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 1: really wants included. And they were important windows. I want
• 2:20:50
  Speaker 1: to be very clear into 300 years Second century BC
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: to 100 AD, what we call the intertestamental period, right
• 2:21:00
  Speaker 1: up to the age of the New Testament. They were
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: interesting windows into that time period, but they're not historical
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 1: by any means. I want to make that very clear.
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: There was a very interesting Jewish mystical tradition, and that's
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 1: where we get Jubilees and Tobit and Enoch, the Book
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 1: of Enoch. And so Jerome is going back and forth
• 2:21:21
  Speaker 1: with the Pope, and finally they compromise. and he includes
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 1: the Apocrypha as an appendix in the Latin-completed Bible. A
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 1: lot of people, you might not be aware, the original
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 1: King James Version that we all love from 1611 actually
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: includes the books of the Apocrypha. It's 11 to 13,
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 1: depending on how you count them. So it's a library.
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 1: So that's context, okay? So the Ethiopian tradition is interesting.
• 2:21:51
  Speaker 1: because they include 1 Enoch, which is 108 chapters, the
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: first 37 of which are called the Book of Watchers.
• 2:22:00
  Speaker 1: And it gets really into some very speculative ideas about
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: the Nephilim, which is this interesting race mentioned in Genesis 6, which,
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 1: by the way, those first few verses, and you can
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 1: quote me on this in Genesis 6, is the weirdest
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 1: part of the Bible. We do not have that much information.
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 1: Of course, in Hebrew, if you know your Hebrew, nephal
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: is the verb that means fallen. So that's where we
• 2:22:31
  Speaker 1: get this idea of maybe they're demons, maybe they're just
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: angelic beings. So nephilim is the plural noun of nephal
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 1: in Hebrew. I don't know if that was ever explained
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 1: to you from a word study. So that's where we
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 1: get this idea of this sentient race that copulates with
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 1: women to produce this hybrid race. We don't know anything
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 1: about it besides the first five or six verses of Genesis. Perhaps,
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 1: and again, we speculate. And so fast forward to 300 BC, okay?
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 2: So what?
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, are we 3,000 years later? Are we 6,000
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 1: years later? We're in 300 BC. We're in this unique
• 2:23:15
  Speaker 1: milieu of Jewish mystical writing. And the book of Enoch
• 2:23:20
  Speaker 1: begins to speculate for 37 chapters about who this race was,
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 1: who these giants are. And it's really fun and interesting
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 1: and maybe even perhaps edifying for certain groups, but it's
• 2:23:34
  Speaker 1: not historical as far as helping us understand. What I
• 2:23:38
  Speaker 1: would say is this very clearly. First Enoch specifically, which
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: is in the Ethiopian Bible, from a historical perspective, from
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 1: a scholarly perspective and from an archaeologically perspective does nothing
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 1: to help us understand Genesis 6 and the Nephilim at all.
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 2: What does it say in Genesis 6?
• 2:24:00
  Speaker 1: That essentially that this race, this angelic race, may have
• 2:24:09
  Speaker 1: created offspring with females that hastened the judgment of God,
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 1: the Flood, that we see right after that passage. We
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 1: just don't know. That's the thing. We don't have to
• 2:24:24
  Speaker 1: do CIA, context, interpretation, application. That's all we know. It
• 2:24:29
  Speaker 1: could be legendary. It could be mythology. It could be true.
• 2:24:34
  Speaker 1: It could be the way that humans raced into sin.
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 1: That's one speculation, like how did we become such great sinners?
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 1: Maybe through this race. But there's no connections. between Goliath
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 1: and the Nephilim. We know now we have a Hebrew
• 2:24:52
  Speaker 1: text of 1 Samuel that's cleared it up. Goliath is
• 2:24:55
  Speaker 1: four cubits and a hand breadth. He was probably 6'6
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 1: or 6'10, which was huge for his day, but he's
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 1: not 10 feet. He's not six cubits. We have an
• 2:25:06
  Speaker 1: older manuscript that clears that up for us.
• 2:25:09
  Speaker 2: Okay. When did Christianity reach Ethiopia? I mean, it's just
• 2:25:13
  Speaker 2: such an odd location.
• 2:25:15
  Speaker 1: Well actually and there's a lot of odd i mean
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 1: just to continue i mean there's connections with solomon and
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 1: the queen of sheba um there's thought to even be
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 1: several from africa in his we do know that he
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 1: had 700 concubines so there's there's a lot of apocryphal
• 2:25:36
  Speaker 1: mystical legendary stories that come out of the connection of
• 2:25:41
  Speaker 1: sheba with solomon There's no history behind it. It comes
• 2:25:45
  Speaker 1: from the intertestamental period. These are legendary stories. When I
• 2:25:49
  Speaker 1: lived in Oxford, I took my daughter Lily and my
• 2:25:53
  Speaker 1: wife Audrey to Glastonbury. Glastonbury is like where a big
• 2:25:56
  Speaker 1: musical fest is. We didn't go to that. But I
• 2:25:59
  Speaker 1: went there because there was a legend that Joseph of
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 1: Arimathea had brought Jesus to Glastonbury in England. Just a
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 1: total legend.
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:26:08
  Speaker 1: Right by King Arthur, by the way, where King Arthur
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 1: was buried in the Knights of the Round Table. I mean,
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 1: Different Christian communities developed these unique, legendary, almost fanatical perspectives
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 1: that are based on their ethnicity, where they're from, what
• 2:26:22
  Speaker 1: they're facing. And so what you have though, First Enoch
• 2:26:28
  Speaker 1: was never removed from our Christian Bibles. It was part
• 2:26:33
  Speaker 1: of the canon or library of Ethiopian Christians because their
• 2:26:39
  Speaker 1: texts developed in much more isolation. because it's amazing there
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 1: are any Christians at all in Ethiopia after the Islamic conquest.
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 1: So it's just important to help people understand the concept
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 1: of canon, rule, you know, what we call canon. The
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 1: Bible is a library, and we have to always make
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 1: sure we keep it. There's genres of our library. There
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 1: are books, there are biographies, there's poem, wisdom literature, half
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 1: of the Psalms are Psalms of lament. And so we
• 2:27:09
  Speaker 1: just need, there's nothing hidden. We're not missing out. Now,
• 2:27:13
  Speaker 1: when I teach, which I've, again, was a Division I
• 2:27:15
  Speaker 1: professor for over a dozen years. So do I tell, sure,
• 2:27:19
  Speaker 1: read them. As soon as you read them, you're going
• 2:27:21
  Speaker 1: to realize why they're not in the Bible. We need
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 1: to give first century Christians a little bit more credit.
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 1: You know, there's a reason. I encourage people to just
• 2:27:30
  Speaker 1: read them. You'll see, you know, my expertise is what
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 1: we call extra canonical gospels. And in Oxford, you couldn't
• 2:27:37
  Speaker 1: call them apocryphal because I was seeing this pejorative. that
• 2:27:40
  Speaker 1: I was privileging the biblical text, so I call them
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 1: extra canonical. They get the rivers wrong. They get the
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 1: names wrong. There's alien things in them. They don't get
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 1: the language right. I mean, Richard Bauckham did a book
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 1: called Jesus and the Eyewitnesses where he points out that
• 2:27:55
  Speaker 1: all you have to do is read the, you know,
• 2:27:56
  Speaker 1: there's like 70 gospels outside of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and
• 2:28:00
  Speaker 1: John within a 400 year period after Jesus. All you
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 1: have to do is read them and you'll figure out
• 2:28:05
  Speaker 1: why they're not in our Bibles. The gospel of Peter
• 2:28:08
  Speaker 1: has a giant cross, follows Jesus out of the tomb
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 1: and starts talking. You have polymorphic Christology in the gospel
• 2:28:16
  Speaker 1: of Peter. We have only one witness to it. By
• 2:28:19
  Speaker 1: polymorphic Christology, Jesus is a giant. The angels are a
• 2:28:23
  Speaker 1: giant and you have a hovering talking cross. And some
• 2:28:27
  Speaker 1: people wanted to call that the fifth gospel.
• 2:28:29
  Speaker 2: A hovering talking cross.
• 2:28:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the cross gospel. John Dominic Crossan wrote about it.
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 1: So again, we have one witness to it, P. Cairo 10759,
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 1: which by the way, does include some aspects of Enoch
• 2:28:42
  Speaker 1: and some other things. So again, these are libraries that
• 2:28:46
  Speaker 1: traveled together. The church was very intelligent in that they
• 2:28:49
  Speaker 1: recognized immediately the sacredness of scripture. So like Jerome would
• 2:28:54
  Speaker 1: have said in the Latin Vulgate, these books are sacred.
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 1: The Apocrypha is helpful for helping us understand. I want
• 2:29:02
  Speaker 1: to be very clear. It helps us understand the world
• 2:29:06
  Speaker 1: in which they were written and appreciated. Bishop Serapion at
• 2:29:10
  Speaker 1: Rossus read the gospel of Peter and his Christian community
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 1: along with the gospels. So you just have this emergence
• 2:29:18
  Speaker 1: of unique traditions with some of these different Christian communities.
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 1: That's all there is. And we've known this forever. And
• 2:29:27
  Speaker 1: by we, I mean Bible scholars. So when I hear
• 2:29:31
  Speaker 1: this fascination with Enoch and giants, there's no connection, Sean,
• 2:29:35
  Speaker 1: between Goliath or giants today with the Nephilim, which again
• 2:29:41
  Speaker 1: is the plural form noun of nephal, to fall. We
• 2:29:45
  Speaker 1: just don't have enough information. So I'm never gonna go
• 2:29:48
  Speaker 1: beyond that. the context of what we actually have. And
• 2:29:52
  Speaker 1: certainly I'm not going to build my theology on Enoch
• 2:29:56
  Speaker 1: or on any of these intertestamental books. They were inspiring books,
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 1: but not theologically beneficial.
• 2:30:01
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people will appreciate that because
• 2:30:04
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of stuff going on about all of that.
• 2:30:08
  Speaker 1: Can I issue a challenge?
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 1: All of these people that's, and I'm kind of tired
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 1: of answering questions. It bores me about Enoch and these books.
• 2:30:18
  Speaker 1: And I want to say this, and I don't mean
• 2:30:20
  Speaker 1: that like bored right now. I just mean, I get
• 2:30:22
  Speaker 1: asked this question on every show I do. And if
• 2:30:25
  Speaker 1: people would take the energy that they use to study
• 2:30:29
  Speaker 1: these unique, interesting, fanciful, intertestinal books and actually apply that
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 1: to studying Greek and Hebrew and what we actually have
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 1: in the scripture, they would be a lot closer to
• 2:30:40
  Speaker 1: Jesus and a lot more firm in their faith. For example,
• 2:30:44
  Speaker 1: We have 138,000 words in the Greek New Testament. Sean,
• 2:30:48
  Speaker 1: if I got you to memorize just 300 Greek words,
• 2:30:52
  Speaker 1: just 300, you yourself would be able to recognize eight
• 2:30:56
  Speaker 1: out of 10 word occurrences in this Bible right here.
• 2:30:58
  Speaker 2: No kidding.
• 2:30:59
  Speaker 1: That's Koine Greek. The Bible is not written in hidden
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 1: esoteric language. One thing that Alexander the Great gave us
• 2:31:06
  Speaker 1: was this beautiful common Greek language. And so, man, if
• 2:31:09
  Speaker 1: you took all your efforts and took a class on Greek,
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 1: and oh, I now, if I just learned 300 words,
• 2:31:17
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna recognize eight out of 10 word occurrences in
• 2:31:20
  Speaker 1: the Greek New Testament. So take all this energy, and
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 1: these are like Christian comic books, essentially. Christian Avengers or whatever,
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 1: same with the New Testament. They're called pseudepigraphal writings. Enoch,
• 2:31:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, we actually had to turn down someone for
• 2:31:35
  Speaker 1: an MA thesis who tried to tell us Enoch wrote
• 2:31:39
  Speaker 1: the Book of Enoch.
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 2: No.
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 1: That did not happen.
• 2:31:44
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 2:31:45
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• 2:31:49
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• 2:33:23
  Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Sarah Adams, the host of Vigilance Elite's The
• 2:33:28
  Speaker 3: Watch Floor, where we highlight what matters. It became a
• 2:33:31
  Speaker 3: permissive state. Explain to you why it matters, and then
• 2:33:36
  Speaker 3: aim to leave you feeling better informed than you were
• 2:33:39
  Speaker 3: before you hit play. Terrorists, hostile intelligence agencies, organized crime,
• 2:33:46
  Speaker 3: not everything is urgent. But this show will focus on
• 2:33:50
  Speaker 3: what is need to know, not just what is nice
• 2:33:53
  Speaker 3: to know.
• 2:34:03
  Speaker 2: I've heard. Is there is there some rumors that the
• 2:34:08
  Speaker 2: Ark of the Covenant is in Ethiopia? You heard this?
• 2:34:11
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 2:34:12
  Speaker 2: What is that? Is that true? No. What is the
• 2:34:15
  Speaker 2: Ark of the Covenant?
• 2:34:16
  Speaker 1: The Ark of the Covenant is fascinating. In fact, my
• 2:34:19
  Speaker 1: dear friend, Dr. Scott Stripling, is the excavator at Shiloh
• 2:34:23
  Speaker 1: in Israel. The rest of the world calls it Shiloh.
• 2:34:26
  Speaker 1: And this is where the scripture tells us that Joshua
• 2:34:29
  Speaker 1: brought the Ark of the Covenant, and it was there
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 1: for 305 years, according to Dr.
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 2: Stripling.
• 2:34:35
  Speaker 1: And so we have the actual spot. It's being uncovered.
• 2:34:40
  Speaker 1: It's being excavated. I encourage people to go there and
• 2:34:42
  Speaker 1: check it out. So that was the home of the Ark.
• 2:34:44
  Speaker 2: Currently being excavated.
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 1: Currently, yes. They're almost done. I believe they're in season seven.
• 2:34:49
  Speaker 1: Way to go, Dr.
• 2:34:49
  Speaker 2: Stripling.
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 1: And he endorsed my book, which I really appreciate having
• 2:34:52
  Speaker 1: his scholarly endorsement as an archaeologist. And the Ark was
• 2:34:56
  Speaker 1: the meeting place of the people of God with Yahweh himself.
• 2:35:01
  Speaker 1: One day a year on the Day of Atonement, the
• 2:35:04
  Speaker 1: high priest would make atonement on the mercy seat. The
• 2:35:07
  Speaker 1: Ark of the Covenant held the Ten Commandments, Aaron's rod
• 2:35:10
  Speaker 1: that budded, manna, And that was the manna that had
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 1: fallen down from heaven to feed the Israelites in the wilderness. Remember,
• 2:35:21
  Speaker 1: it would go bad because you had to trust God
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 1: every day. And so this was essentially, and then between
• 2:35:28
  Speaker 1: the cherubim, and you had to have blood on it.
• 2:35:30
  Speaker 1: This was all symbolically pointed to Jesus of Nazareth. But
• 2:35:35
  Speaker 1: there's a huge fascination with where it is right now.
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 1: And I put zero credibility into thinking that the Ethiopian
• 2:35:43
  Speaker 1: church has it.
• 2:35:46
  Speaker 2: What hap- I mean, there's a lot of, it's probably
• 2:35:49
  Speaker 2: all bullshit conspiracy, but I mean, what- there's a lot
• 2:35:54
  Speaker 2: of fear of opening it, of being around it. Is
• 2:35:58
  Speaker 2: there any validity to any of that?
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 1: We should have no fear of it, Jesus. is our savior.
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 1: All it did was point to Jesus. Jesus fulfilled it all.
• 2:36:08
  Speaker 1: If we found it, I would pop it open in
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 1: a second. I'd sit on top of it. I would
• 2:36:12
  Speaker 1: carry it around. Jesus is my savior. It all pointed
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 1: at him anyways. I believe that's why we don't even
• 2:36:18
  Speaker 1: have it anymore. It's pointless at this point because Jesus
• 2:36:22
  Speaker 1: fulfilled it in his death, burial, and resurrection.
• 2:36:26
  Speaker 2: Wow. You think they're going to find it?
• 2:36:29
  Speaker 3: No.
• 2:36:29
  Speaker 1: But it's the same, this is where we have to
• 2:36:31
  Speaker 1: be careful, and I appreciate you having thinkers on your show.
• 2:36:34
  Speaker 1: This is the same group that says we have chariot
• 2:36:36
  Speaker 1: wheels in the Red Sea. Anytime you see that, it's
• 2:36:39
  Speaker 1: just clickbait. We don't have chariot wheels in the Red
• 2:36:42
  Speaker 1: Sea from the Exodus. If we did, they would be
• 2:36:45
  Speaker 1: at every museum in the world. We do not have that.
• 2:36:48
  Speaker 2: Or stuffed at the bottom of the Vatican.
• 2:36:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Or in the Pergamum Museum. It turns out the
• 2:36:55
  Speaker 1: Nazis were really good at stealing stuff, too. You know,
• 2:36:57
  Speaker 1: the Ishtar Gate is from Babylon that Daniel would have
• 2:37:00
  Speaker 1: walked through. It's at the Pergamum Museum in Berlin.
• 2:37:04
  Speaker 2: Roger that. Well, I think that's the perfect way to
• 2:37:08
  Speaker 2: end this.
• 2:37:09
  Speaker 1: I have to tell you, though, I want to tell
• 2:37:11
  Speaker 1: you the seven reasons I believe that Jesus rose from
• 2:37:14
  Speaker 1: the grave. And I can do it in 60 seconds
• 2:37:15
  Speaker 1: or I can do it in 60 minutes. You tell
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 1: me what you want.
• 2:37:20
  Speaker 2: Let's just go.
• 2:37:21
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 2:37:21
  Speaker 2: Okay. Let's go longer than 60 seconds.
• 2:37:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, I can do it in 60 seconds. But what
• 2:37:26
  Speaker 1: I want people to know is based on the evidence,
• 2:37:29
  Speaker 1: Jesus resurrection is the only way that we ultimately make
• 2:37:33
  Speaker 1: sense of the suffering in our lives. Romans 8, 18,
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 1: Paul said, all the sufferings I endure now cannot compare
• 2:37:40
  Speaker 1: with the glory that will be revealed to us someday.
• 2:37:44
  Speaker 1: That's the number one reason I believe in the resurrection.
• 2:37:46
  Speaker 1: Suffering doesn't make sense without it. Number two, Jesus called it.
• 2:37:50
  Speaker 1: He foretold it. You've heard of Babe Ruth calling his shot,
• 2:37:52
  Speaker 1: Jonameth calling his shot, Muhammad Ali. Nobody called their shot
• 2:37:56
  Speaker 1: like Jesus did. Jesus was constantly predicting his death, burial,
• 2:38:00
  Speaker 1: and resurrection. Mark 8, 31. Mark 9, 31. Mark 10, 33,
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 1: and 34. This is where Jesus said, the Son of Man,
• 2:38:07
  Speaker 1: which was his favorite self-designation, that comes out of Daniel 7.
• 2:38:12
  Speaker 1: He uses it 69 times. Remember, Sean, we only have
• 2:38:16
  Speaker 1: 89 chapters in the Gospels. We have parts of 26
• 2:38:20
  Speaker 1: days of the life of Jesus. One third of the
• 2:38:23
  Speaker 1: gospels is what this program has been about. The death, burial,
• 2:38:26
  Speaker 1: and resurrection. It all points to that fact. That energized
• 2:38:29
  Speaker 1: the church in Acts 17.6 to turn the world upside down.
• 2:38:33
  Speaker 1: So it's the only way we make sense of the
• 2:38:34
  Speaker 1: suffering in our world. Jesus foretold it. Jesus also adumbrated.
• 2:38:39
  Speaker 1: He showed he had power over death. Mark 5, he
• 2:38:43
  Speaker 1: raises Jairus' daughter from the dead. Luke 7, he raises
• 2:38:47
  Speaker 1: the widow of Nain's son from the dead. And then,
• 2:38:49
  Speaker 1: of course, John 11, he raises Lazarus from the dead.
• 2:38:53
  Speaker 1: I've been in Lazarus's tomb in Bethany. Many Christians don't
• 2:38:56
  Speaker 1: go there because it's West Bank or whatever. I had
• 2:38:58
  Speaker 1: a great time there. I got all the way down
• 2:39:00
  Speaker 1: to the tomb, Sean, and I literally yelled out, Lazarus,
• 2:39:04
  Speaker 1: come forth! Just because I wanted to be like Jesus.
• 2:39:07
  Speaker 1: It would have sounded duro exo, literally stand up, walk
• 2:39:11
  Speaker 1: out in Greek. So Jesus showed he had power over death. Fourthly,
• 2:39:15
  Speaker 1: This is really fascinating. All of the textual and archaeological
• 2:39:19
  Speaker 1: evidence authenticate the resurrection accounts that we have in the Gospels.
• 2:39:25
  Speaker 1: Jodi Magnus, who is an atheist archaeologist from the University
• 2:39:30
  Speaker 1: of North Carolina, when studying the death, burial, and resurrection
• 2:39:33
  Speaker 1: passages in the New Testament, guess what she says? The
• 2:39:37
  Speaker 1: Gospels get it right. Fifthly, this is unique. I just
• 2:39:40
  Speaker 1: wrote this for, co-authored it, Craig Evans for Macmillan Interdisciplinary
• 2:39:45
  Speaker 1: Textbooks on Philosophy of Religion. There is no psychological reason
• 2:39:51
  Speaker 1: in Judaism to invent the Jesus story unless it actually happened.
• 2:39:55
  Speaker 1: It is not, as I mentioned earlier, what any of
• 2:39:57
  Speaker 1: his disciples would have expected. I already mentioned 4Q 285,
• 2:40:02
  Speaker 1: where it's seen that Jesus would kill the Roman emperor. Sixthly,
• 2:40:06
  Speaker 1: you cannot explain the conversion of hostile witnesses to Jesus
• 2:40:11
  Speaker 1: apart from the resurrection. Jesus appeared to those who loved him.
• 2:40:15
  Speaker 1: Jesus appeared to those who were indifferent to him. And
• 2:40:18
  Speaker 1: Jesus appeared to those who hated him. Look no further.
• 2:40:21
  Speaker 1: We've talked about James and then the Apostle Paul. The
• 2:40:24
  Speaker 1: seventh fact is huge. Everywhere the gospel goes, society is
• 2:40:29
  Speaker 1: brought freedom. Not perfection, but freedom. The gospel rehumanizes people.
• 2:40:35
  Speaker 1: The gospel brings freedom. Galatians, excuse me, Galatians 3.28 says,
• 2:40:40
  Speaker 1: and this was seditious for Paul to say this, that
• 2:40:43
  Speaker 1: in Christ, there's neither Jew nor Gentile. There's neither slave
• 2:40:47
  Speaker 1: nor free. There's neither male nor female. We are all
• 2:40:51
  Speaker 1: one in Jesus Christ. He said that when Rome was
• 2:40:54
  Speaker 1: at its highest, 40% of the empire were slaves. The
• 2:40:58
  Speaker 1: gospel rehumanized women and children. There's an ancient fragment that
• 2:41:03
  Speaker 1: I've published called Pioxy 744. It's a love letter written
• 2:41:08
  Speaker 1: in Greek from Hilarion to his wife Alice. This is
• 2:41:10
  Speaker 1: what the world was like before Christianity. People don't realize
• 2:41:13
  Speaker 1: it was hell on earth. There was something about the
• 2:41:16
  Speaker 1: X factor of the resurrection that was a game changer.
• 2:41:19
  Speaker 1: This is what Hilarion writes. I'm going to say it
• 2:41:21
  Speaker 1: in Greek. This is what he wrote to his wife.
• 2:41:27
  Speaker 1: Beautiful love letter. And his wife will give birth. to
• 2:41:30
  Speaker 1: their child before he returns home. And what I just
• 2:41:33
  Speaker 1: quoted in Greek verbatim was, if it is a boy,
• 2:41:35
  Speaker 1: keep it. If it's a girl, throw it away. And
• 2:41:38
  Speaker 1: no one would have batted an eye. You and I
• 2:41:40
  Speaker 1: would not have batted an eye. That was the first
• 2:41:42
  Speaker 1: century BC. Jesus comes on the scene. Let the children
• 2:41:47
  Speaker 1: come to me. He rehumanizes children. You have literally rescue missions,
• 2:41:54
  Speaker 1: saving children from the Christian movement. In one of my books, Unimaginable,
• 2:41:58
  Speaker 1: I give 12 ways the world would be radically different
• 2:42:01
  Speaker 1: tomorrow if there were no Christians. And listen, I don't
• 2:42:04
  Speaker 1: worship Christianity. I don't worship the Bible. I don't worship
• 2:42:08
  Speaker 1: the church. I worship the risen Christ. I want to
• 2:42:10
  Speaker 1: make that very clear. But I also want to make
• 2:42:12
  Speaker 1: it clear, the church is the greatest force for good
• 2:42:16
  Speaker 1: on planet Earth. And we don't talk enough about what
• 2:42:19
  Speaker 1: the Jesus movement does. All the idiots get the click baits.
• 2:42:23
  Speaker 1: The people that fall, the people that can't keep their
• 2:42:27
  Speaker 1: life straight, but you know what? There's an army of
• 2:42:29
  Speaker 1: believers out there doing amazing work. They're the front line
• 2:42:33
  Speaker 1: in every time there's a disaster. They want to help people.
• 2:42:36
  Speaker 1: They want to love their enemies, pray for those who
• 2:42:38
  Speaker 1: persecute them, and just be there. My daughter's in Montreal
• 2:42:42
  Speaker 1: right now serving Canadians, loving Jesus, freezing her tail off
• 2:42:45
  Speaker 1: just to tell people about Jesus with a group from
• 2:42:47
  Speaker 1: our Christian Academy. This is what is the most underreported
• 2:42:51
  Speaker 1: phenomenon in is the impact that the gospel made. And
• 2:42:54
  Speaker 1: of course, then the eighth reason is the Shroud of Turin.
• 2:42:57
  Speaker 1: So I've just given you the top eight reasons of
• 2:42:59
  Speaker 1: why I believe Jesus rose from the grave and why
• 2:43:02
  Speaker 1: it matters today.
• 2:43:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you. What does the church mean?
• 2:43:07
  Speaker 1: The church mean?
• 2:43:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is it?
• 2:43:09
  Speaker 1: The church is beautiful.
• 2:43:11
  Speaker 2: What is your definition?
• 2:43:13
  Speaker 1: Well, it's ecclesia. It just means gathering. It's very similar
• 2:43:16
  Speaker 1: to the synagogue. The church is the bride of Christ.
• 2:43:21
  Speaker 1: We will be together for all eternity. We will all
• 2:43:24
  Speaker 1: look different, sound different. We'll have resurrected bodies. We'll know
• 2:43:28
  Speaker 1: each other then. But the church is the bride of Christ.
• 2:43:31
  Speaker 1: The church is not a building, an edifice, an organization.
• 2:43:35
  Speaker 1: The church is believers who come together to worship the
• 2:43:38
  Speaker 1: Lord in spirit and in truth. The church is essential.
• 2:43:43
  Speaker 1: We don't worship it, but it's essential. There's no such
• 2:43:45
  Speaker 1: thing as an isolated Christian. We appreciate internet church, we
• 2:43:50
  Speaker 1: appreciate online services, but there is a power when we
• 2:43:53
  Speaker 1: come together collectively. This is where the ordinances of communion
• 2:43:58
  Speaker 1: and baptism are so important. This is what was crazy
• 2:44:02
  Speaker 1: about our federal government. I just preached Sunday on religious freedom.
• 2:44:06
  Speaker 1: The fact that liquor stores were essential, but churches weren't
• 2:44:10
  Speaker 1: in New York City during COVID, are you serious? No wonder,
• 2:44:13
  Speaker 1: you know, it turns out we destroy ourselves without God.
• 2:44:17
  Speaker 1: I make this point. There's a fascinating book, The Plot
• 2:44:19
  Speaker 1: to Kill God, about what happened in the Soviet Union
• 2:44:23
  Speaker 1: after the Bolshevik Revolution and the communist takeover. They all
• 2:44:28
  Speaker 1: started to kill each other a lot more. Turns out
• 2:44:30
  Speaker 1: if you want to kill people, get rid of a
• 2:44:31
  Speaker 1: God and get rid of the Jesus in society. It's
• 2:44:34
  Speaker 1: a lot easier to kill people that way.
• 2:44:37
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 2:44:38
  Speaker 1: So that's what the church is.
• 2:44:40
  Speaker 2: Love that. Thank you. Thank you. Last thing. I got
• 2:44:45
  Speaker 2: a hot question here. Let's go. People describe hell through
• 2:44:50
  Speaker 2: near-death experiences, visions, and even movies and games like Constantine, Doom,
• 2:44:58
  Speaker 2: and Diablo. But what does the Bible actually say hell is,
• 2:45:02
  Speaker 2: where is it, and what will it be like?
• 2:45:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so important. The Bible uses hyperbolic language to describe
• 2:45:10
  Speaker 1: something that is unimaginable. If I were to tell you,
• 2:45:13
  Speaker 1: I'm from Kansas City, and so I'm a humongous Kansas
• 2:45:16
  Speaker 1: City Chiefs fan. It's my one addiction in life. like
• 2:45:18
  Speaker 1: I am a Chiefs fan. Right on.
• 2:45:21
  Speaker 2: You're from Kansas City?
• 2:45:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, sir.
• 2:45:23
  Speaker 2: I'm from Kansas City.
• 2:45:24
  Speaker 1: Are you really? I am.
• 2:45:25
  Speaker 2: I was born in Blue Springs.
• 2:45:26
  Speaker 1: Dude, Overland Park, Kansas, right here. So you're on the
• 2:45:28
  Speaker 1: Missouri side.
• 2:45:29
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 2:45:30
  Speaker 1: I'm on the Kansas side.
• 2:45:30
  Speaker 3: Right on.
• 2:45:31
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. How random is that? Are you a Chiefs fan?
• 2:45:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get up and walk out of this
• 2:45:36
  Speaker 1: interview if you're not.
• 2:45:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, man.
• 2:45:39
  Speaker 1: Did you go to Blue Springs High School?
• 2:45:41
  Speaker 2: No, no.
• 2:45:42
  Speaker 1: I was just born there, and then I moved all
• 2:45:43
  Speaker 1: over the place. So they're actually a football powerhouse. Anyways...
• 2:45:47
  Speaker 1: If I were to tell you the Chiefs killed the Raiders,
• 2:45:51
  Speaker 1: because you know I hate the Raiders. Every Chiefs fan does.
• 2:45:55
  Speaker 1: You know I'm speaking in a language that means something different.
• 2:45:58
  Speaker 1: This is hyperbolic language. We don't have language to describe
• 2:46:03
  Speaker 1: what a life completely apart from God would be like.
• 2:46:08
  Speaker 1: It will be conscious torment. I don't believe that the
• 2:46:11
  Speaker 1: scripture teaches annihilationism, although some fine Christians do. I don't
• 2:46:15
  Speaker 1: believe that. Jesus... wants you to know that you choose.
• 2:46:19
  Speaker 1: Lewis gives a great, great book where he talks about
• 2:46:23
  Speaker 1: the fact that you're on a school bus and ultimately
• 2:46:26
  Speaker 1: hell is what you decide. God doesn't design us to
• 2:46:31
  Speaker 1: go to hell. He designed us to have a relationship
• 2:46:33
  Speaker 1: with him through faith in Jesus Christ. So anyone right
• 2:46:36
  Speaker 1: now who wants to become a Christian, they can just say, Jesus,
• 2:46:39
  Speaker 1: come into my life, change my life. I trust in
• 2:46:41
  Speaker 1: you to forgive me my sins and give me eternal life.
• 2:46:44
  Speaker 1: I trust in you to do that. If you said
• 2:46:47
  Speaker 1: just that prayer and you meant it in your heart,
• 2:46:49
  Speaker 1: you're forgiven immediately. You have peace with God immediately. Romans 5.1 says, therefore,
• 2:46:54
  Speaker 1: having been justified by faith, we have peace with God
• 2:46:57
  Speaker 1: through our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. That's a shalom
• 2:47:00
  Speaker 1: that never ends. Hell is when people say, no, God,
• 2:47:03
  Speaker 1: I don't want you.
• 2:47:05
  Speaker 2: In my life.
• 2:47:06
  Speaker 1: And God gives you what you choose. He didn't create
• 2:47:09
  Speaker 1: it for you. He created hell for the devil and
• 2:47:11
  Speaker 1: his demons. God doesn't want them part of him for
• 2:47:14
  Speaker 1: all eternity. So hell is, there fire? Is there burning
• 2:47:21
  Speaker 1: and gnashing of teeth? This is language like when I
• 2:47:24
  Speaker 1: say the chiefs killed the raiders. It's something far worse.
• 2:47:28
  Speaker 1: We don't have words to describe what absence from Jesus
• 2:47:32
  Speaker 1: will be like. We have glimmers of it. You can
• 2:47:34
  Speaker 1: go to parts of the world where people hate God,
• 2:47:37
  Speaker 1: hate Christians, try to control what people think. It's evil.
• 2:47:41
  Speaker 1: And it's what's scary about it. I don't know if
• 2:47:44
  Speaker 1: you've ever been to a concentration camp. Audrey and I
• 2:47:47
  Speaker 1: were just at Buchenwald. And the evil that a man
• 2:47:51
  Speaker 1: can inflict on another person or a child, that's just
• 2:47:55
  Speaker 1: a glimmer of what hell will be. And people are
• 2:47:59
  Speaker 1: there right now who chose to not follow Jesus. And
• 2:48:03
  Speaker 1: this is the thing. I can share all of this
• 2:48:05
  Speaker 1: evidence with you. And there are still people, and this
• 2:48:07
  Speaker 1: is the most dangerous place someone can get, is when
• 2:48:10
  Speaker 1: you stop seeking truth. Lazarus had been resurrected in John 11,
• 2:48:16
  Speaker 1: and the Pharisees, the Jews, still refused to believe that
• 2:48:20
  Speaker 1: Jesus was the Messiah. They had resurrected Lazarus in front
• 2:48:24
  Speaker 1: of them, and they were still wanting to kill Jesus.
• 2:48:28
  Speaker 1: So for some, no evidence is enough. And so we
• 2:48:32
  Speaker 1: should all check our heart this Easter season. Am I
• 2:48:35
  Speaker 1: addicted to truth? Am I willing to follow truth wherever
• 2:48:38
  Speaker 1: it leads? Because if I lose my grasp on truth,
• 2:48:42
  Speaker 1: truly I lose my grasp on God because God is truth.
• 2:48:46
  Speaker 2: Man, I love that. Thank you. I think we should
• 2:48:50
  Speaker 2: end this in another prayer.
• 2:48:52
  Speaker 1: I would love that. Thank you, Sean. Thanks for having
• 2:48:54
  Speaker 1: me and thanks for the great questions.
• 2:48:56
  Speaker 2: My pleasure. Thank you for coming. Jesus, we just want
• 2:49:02
  Speaker 2: to pray that this that this interview, this discussion, this
• 2:49:07
  Speaker 2: talk gets to anybody, anybody who's on the fence coming
• 2:49:11
  Speaker 2: to you. And we just want to wish everybody a
• 2:49:18
  Speaker 2: happy resurrection day and a happy Easter. And we just
• 2:49:23
  Speaker 2: want you to continue to be our guiding light to
• 2:49:27
  Speaker 2: give us what we need to bring more people to you.
• 2:49:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 2:49:32
  Speaker 1: Amen.
• 2:49:33
  Speaker 2: Amen. Amen. Great prayer.
• 2:49:35
  Speaker 1: And thank you for having me.
• 2:49:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you for coming. God bless you and happy Easter.
• 2:49:40
  Speaker 1: Lord bless you. He is risen, brother.
• 2:49:57
  Speaker 2: No matter where you're watching the Sean Ryan show from,
• 2:50:00
  Speaker 2: if you get anything out of this at all, anything,
• 2:50:04
  Speaker 2: please like, comment, and subscribe. And most importantly, share this
• 2:50:11
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• 2:50:17
  Speaker 2: head to Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave us a review.