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Football - Florida State (Of The Union), Plus What's Up With The Men's Hoops Lawsuit? · Conversations: Special Guests with Preston Scott

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: And here we are back live after the twelve days
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: of Preston. We have returned to the studios and we
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: are grateful to be back with you. Thanks very much
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: for joining us. I'm Preston. He's Jose. It is Monday,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: January the sixth. We're in the midst of the college
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  Speaker 1: football playoff, the first time twelve teams have advanced to
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  Speaker 1: the playoff format. But we're not really going to talk
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  Speaker 1: about that. We're going to talk about our favorite team,
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  Speaker 1: Florida State Seminals. And I know for some of you
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  Speaker 1: it's not your favorite team, but that's okay. You'll indulge me.
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  Speaker 1: And joining me is the managing editor of our source
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  Speaker 1: for all things FSU. He is Iris Schaffel. Good morning, Ira,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Happy New.
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  Speaker 2: Year, Happy New Year, Preston. How are you.
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  Speaker 1: I'm doing well. The last time you and I visited,
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  Speaker 1: Mike Norvel was in the process of assembling the top
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  Speaker 1: portion of his staff and now it's kind of filled
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  Speaker 1: in from there. Let's start with your assessment of what
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: coach Norvel has done to really transform this program in
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  Speaker 1: a short period of weeks.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this team already looks you know, probably
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: sixty to seventy percent different than it did at the
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: end of last season, both from a roster standpoint and
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  Speaker 2: a coaching standpoint. He brought in six new assistant coaches,
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  Speaker 2: three on each side of the ball. Odell Hagen's longtime
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  Speaker 2: defensive line coach, now is kind of stepped back into
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  Speaker 2: a he's going to be associate head coach, but he
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  Speaker 2: won't actually be coaching on the field a position like
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  Speaker 2: he has some last you know, three decades. But you know,
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  Speaker 2: an offense, you bring in Gus Malsan, who is the
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  Speaker 2: head coach at UCF, and a couple of his assistants,
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  Speaker 2: the offensive line coach and wide receivers coach coming with
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  Speaker 2: him that had been with him before. On the defensive side,
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  Speaker 2: you raided Nebraska, you brought into third defensive coordinator Tony White,
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  Speaker 2: who's a really up and coming, you know, really highly
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  Speaker 2: respected young defensive coordinator, with two of his assistants, their
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  Speaker 2: defensive line coach and their safeties coach. And so now
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  Speaker 2: you're messing them with a few of the holdovers. Micro
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  Speaker 2: Bel's keeping probably close to half of his staff intact
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  Speaker 2: from the past, but you're bringing in basically the leadership
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  Speaker 2: you know on both sides of the ball. It's going
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  Speaker 2: to be different. And then, like you said, the roster
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  Speaker 2: is going to be very different. They you know, when
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  Speaker 2: they signed twenty high school kids and now they've brought
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  Speaker 2: in sixteen transfers. I think by the end of the
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  Speaker 2: day it's going to be twenty or so transfers, and
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  Speaker 2: so you know, close to half of this roster is
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  Speaker 2: going to be different as well. So it's you know,
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  Speaker 2: nobody wants to spend a lot of time remembering that
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  Speaker 2: twenty twenty four team, and the good news is we
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  Speaker 2: won't see much of it going forward.
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  Speaker 1: All right, let's take a second, because I think we'd
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: be remiss without acknowledging how different college football is right now.
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  Speaker 1: Twenty three hundred plus players went to the transfer portal.
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  Speaker 1: It is eviscerated the bowl game process. What first, What
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  Speaker 1: do you think? I think there's a solution that needs
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  Speaker 1: to take place with college football because what's going on
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  Speaker 1: right now is to me untenable. I don't think people
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  Speaker 1: are going to watch games with these bowl games at all.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I think they're already skipping them. But give me your
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  Speaker 1: thoughts on what we're seeing unfold and what you think
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  Speaker 1: needs to happen.
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  Speaker 2: You know, it's funny a lot of times people the
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  Speaker 2: first thing people have mentioned is NIL because you know,
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  Speaker 2: this was all happening around the same time the NIL
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  Speaker 2: was introduced, what players could get paid, what was also
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  Speaker 2: with the unlimited transfers, And first, you know, first it
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  Speaker 2: was going to be a one time transfer because you know,
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  Speaker 2: again we all remember just six, seven, eight years ago
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  Speaker 2: and for most of our lives, if a player wanted
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  Speaker 2: to transfer, he had to sit out a year, and
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  Speaker 2: sometimes it was more than that if they were trying
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  Speaker 2: to move in conference, and that was probably well not
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  Speaker 2: probably that was not fair to the kids, because coaches
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  Speaker 2: could leave and coach somewhere else the next year, but
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  Speaker 2: players had to sit out a year. So they had
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  Speaker 2: that one one time transfer role, and that seemed reasonable.
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  Speaker 2: But then they also then they went ahead, they got sued,
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  Speaker 2: they went ahead and changed it to unlimited transfers. And
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  Speaker 2: that's really the biggest issue is, you know, players can
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  Speaker 2: transfer every single year. You know, one of the players
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  Speaker 2: somebody asked me about on our message boards yesterday was
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  Speaker 2: Tummy Why, a defensive lineman that came in last year
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  Speaker 2: as a transfer. He has since transferred again, he's in
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  Speaker 2: his fourth school in four years. He started out of Kentucky,
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  Speaker 2: then went to Maryland, then came to Florida State, and
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  Speaker 2: now next year he's going to be at Illinois and
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  Speaker 2: so that that's probably the extreme example. But yeah, you
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  Speaker 2: end up with what ends up happening as these coaches
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  Speaker 2: end up having to recruit throwing players to stay. Sometimes
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  Speaker 2: they have to figure out ways to get them more
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  Speaker 2: ni on money this day, or you just end up,
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  Speaker 2: you know, losing guys from year to year. Now the
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  Speaker 2: positive side to that for Florida State is they've been
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  Speaker 2: able to probably usher out some players. In the old days,
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  Speaker 2: you have to keep guys on your rochester for four
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  Speaker 2: or five years, even if you didn't like them. You
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  Speaker 2: have a season like last year two and ten and
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  Speaker 2: Mike Rvell can encourage some guys to leave. So there's
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  Speaker 2: the positive to it. I do think it seems like
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  Speaker 2: with the changes that are coming to reforms that are
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  Speaker 2: coming with the House Settlement that's expected to be passed
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  Speaker 2: this year. We don't know for sure, but it's expected
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  Speaker 2: to be passed in April. There may be some limitations
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  Speaker 2: enacted on the unlimited transfers, but you know, it's hard
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  Speaker 2: to put the genie back in the bottle.
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  Speaker 1: Irah, if I were to suggest to you that it
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  Speaker 1: is inevitable that since college athletes and let's just stay
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  Speaker 1: focused on football, want to be like professionals and want
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  Speaker 1: to be paid, they're going to be forced to sign contracts.
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  Speaker 1: And if a coach leaves, so be it. Like the
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  Speaker 1: NFL when there's a coaching change, the players don't get
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  Speaker 1: to just pack up and leave two They have to
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  Speaker 1: honor their contract. I see that as an inevitability if
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  Speaker 1: they want to cause college football to continue to exist.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it sounds like from you know, talking to
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  Speaker 2: Michael Afford, fici's athletic director, he foresees something like that coming.
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  Speaker 2: You know, he told me recently he thinks there's going
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  Speaker 2: to be multi year contracts with players. Now, when you
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: sign a player, it will be a multi year contract. Now,
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  Speaker 2: if another team wants to take them away, they'll have
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  Speaker 2: to buy them out of their contract, just like you
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  Speaker 2: would with a coach. So, for example, this is hypothetical.
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  Speaker 2: So you've signed a player to a three year contract
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  Speaker 2: and he's making a you know, and some people listening
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  Speaker 2: to this will fall out out of their chairs but
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  Speaker 2: say he's making five hundred thousand dollars a year or
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  Speaker 2: whatever it is, which happens now, then the other school
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  Speaker 2: would then have to pay you that money and it
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  Speaker 2: would affect their salary cap. There actually will be a
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  Speaker 2: salary cap in place. So yeah, that's that's what they're
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  Speaker 2: trying to get to. But again, I think some of
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  Speaker 2: the challenges are from a you know, and the lawyers
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  Speaker 2: in the audience willill understand better than me, but you know,
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  Speaker 2: the there's going to be you know, challenges from uh,
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  Speaker 2: you know, legally when it comes to dealing with these
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  Speaker 2: guys because they're not employees yet. And then you've got
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  Speaker 2: other you know, legal hurdles that they have to get past.
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  Speaker 2: There's not collective bargaining in college football yet, so there's
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  Speaker 2: a lot of things they have to get past. But
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  Speaker 2: that is where they're trying to get to.
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  Speaker 1: You wrote I thought a very insightful piece back maybe
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  Speaker 1: ten days two weeks ago, analyzing the recruiting process of
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  Speaker 1: the transfers and so forth. You made a distinction in
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  Speaker 1: how coach Norvel and his staff are approaching transfers this
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  Speaker 1: time around. I'd like you to share that with our audience.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, it's just been a one
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  Speaker 2: hundred and ad degree reversal and in some ways reversal
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  Speaker 2: back to what they had done before Mike Norvell's first
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  Speaker 2: few years in the transfer portal. You know, if you
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  Speaker 2: look at a last year's transfer class, they brought seventeen transfers,
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  Speaker 2: but the vast majority of those guys had never really
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  Speaker 2: played much on college football. A lot of them were
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  Speaker 2: highly talented recruits when they went to their former schools.
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  Speaker 2: You know, you think about Marvin Jones junior and Earl
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  Speaker 2: Little and Jalen Brown and a bunch of these guys
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  Speaker 2: who signed with their previous schools like Alabama, Georgia or
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  Speaker 2: LSU and were highly recruited out of high school, and
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  Speaker 2: we're so highly recruited Florida, they couldn't get them coming
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  Speaker 2: out of high school. Well, then they went to their
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  Speaker 2: colleges and didn't really do a whole lot. But when
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  Speaker 2: they went in the transfer portal, Mike Arvel was attracted
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  Speaker 2: to them. It seemed like because they were highly touted
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  Speaker 2: recruits and certainly we'll figure out a way to get
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  Speaker 2: them to play better than they did these other schools.
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  Speaker 2: And it didn't pan out almost in any of the situations. Well,
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  Speaker 2: this year they've kind of gone back to getting guys
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  Speaker 2: that played a ton of college football. And if you
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  Speaker 2: look across the board now, I mean they probably have
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  Speaker 2: twelve or thirteen or fourteen guys that they brought in
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  Speaker 2: now who were starters at their previous schools. Most of
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  Speaker 2: them were starters for multiple years. And so now you're
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  Speaker 2: bringing in guys who you know, yesterday they brought in
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  Speaker 2: a receiver, Squirrel White, who you know, couple of years
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  Speaker 2: ago Tennessee, you know, had almost a thousand yard receiving
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  Speaker 2: And that's like across the board. Every position that they've improved,
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  Speaker 2: they've brought in guys who's not only played college football
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  Speaker 2: at their previous schools, but actually started and were very productive.
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  Speaker 2: So even if it was at a smaller school, maybe
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  Speaker 2: you brought in a couple of guys from the UCF
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  Speaker 2: and you know, Coastal Carolina schools like that, but they
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  Speaker 2: played and they've been on the field and they know
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  Speaker 2: what it's like. And I think that's that's getting back
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  Speaker 2: to what they'd done in the past.
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  Speaker 1: All Right, Ira, let's uh, let's talk about what's somewhat uncomfortable.
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  Speaker 1: FSU men's basketball off to a respectable nice start for
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  Speaker 1: the season compared to the last year or so. But
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  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, we know about a lawsuit filed
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  Speaker 1: by former players against head coach Leonard Hamilton. What's the
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  Speaker 1: assertion here that's being made against coach ham.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, I always try to remind people
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  Speaker 2: anytime a lawsuit comes up, and I'm I'm sure many
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  Speaker 2: of your listeners will know this. Most of your listeners
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  Speaker 2: will know this, But you know, it's when when a
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  Speaker 2: lawsuit is filed, that's one side of the story, just
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  Speaker 2: like if somebody gets arrested, that's one side of the story.
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  Speaker 2: You know, Leonard Hamilton will file responses, attorneys will file
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  Speaker 2: a response. But the allegation is that there were six
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  Speaker 2: players on the team from last year that said they
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  Speaker 2: were promised nil money by Leonard Hamilton that he said
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  Speaker 2: his associates were going to come up with and they
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  Speaker 2: never received it. Now, you know, it's not that they
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  Speaker 2: never got nil money. You know, Rising Spear, which is
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: one of the collectives that supports FSU athletics, from what
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  Speaker 2: I understand, you know, did did provide anil payments to
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  Speaker 2: these players. They did get some of the money that
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: they In fact, from what I understand, all the signed
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  Speaker 2: contracts that they had were fulfilled, but they're saying there
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  Speaker 2: was an oral agreement with Leonard Hamilton on top of
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: that to get them more money. They're each saying they
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  Speaker 2: were promised two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and which
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  Speaker 2: seems exorbitant for some of the players mentioned, but anyway,
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  Speaker 2: and they're saying that, you know, he promised it and
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  Speaker 2: never delivered. Leonard Hamilton won't comment on it. He just
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  Speaker 2: said it's you know, it's a legal matter. He had
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  Speaker 2: to have his attorneys will respond in court, so we'll
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  Speaker 2: have to see what his response is. As far as
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  Speaker 2: how it affects this team, it's hard to say. You know,
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  Speaker 2: they that none of the players on the current team
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  Speaker 2: are part of that. The team went out and played
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Saturday and played one of the better games of the year.
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  Speaker 2: They've got to blowout win in a conference game against Syracuse,
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  Speaker 2: So you know, I don't know how much it's going
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: to change things right away, And it's a legal matter,
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  Speaker 2: so who knows how long it'll take to get resolved.
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  Speaker 2: But obviously it's a black guy for Leonard Hamilton is
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  Speaker 2: a guy who has had a you know, really squeaky
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  Speaker 2: clean career. Yes, throughout his entire career.
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  Speaker 1: Are they claiming that they were each owed a quarter
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  Speaker 1: of a million dollars or that's the collected amount in total?
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: They're saying every player was promised two hundred and fifty
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars, which and again, you know, and it's hard
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  Speaker 2: to give people perspective of what that means. I would
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: just tell people that there are you know, there are
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: players that make more than that in college basketball. They
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: are players that make a million dollars two million dollars
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  Speaker 2: a year in college basketball if they're elite, elite players.
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  Speaker 2: But players that are on a terrible team that only
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: average four or five points a game aren't usually making
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  Speaker 2: two hundred free thousand dollars. And that's a lot of
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: these dos in case. But you know, if Leonard Hamilton
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: told them that and they can prove it, that's one thing.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: You know, there are some text messages in the lawsuit
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: that make it seem like you know that, but nothing
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: from Leonard Hamilton in those text messages talking about those amounts.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: So we'll see whether or not they can approve it.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: We'll see whether or not the court. Lets just move
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: forward once Leonard Hamilton moves to dismiss it, which I'm
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: sure he will, But you know, again, it's just it's
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: a it's a black guy for a coach that hasn't
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: had a lot of them, at least when it comes
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: to off the court matters.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: How much do you think will that play a role?
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: The fact that in his career Leonard Hamilton has had
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: an extremely good record, not not wins and losses, so
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: much as his guys graduate his you know, I mean,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: he's he's running pro that's been above reproach.
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  Speaker 2: Well, there's no question about that. And there's and the
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  Speaker 2: thing and what the one of the saddest parts about
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  Speaker 2: it is Leonard Hamilton and his players have been so
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: close together, like he's had such great relationship with those
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: players going back fifty years. I mean, there are guys
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: that played for him at Austin p There's guys that
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: played from Kentucky decades ago who come back and visited
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: him all the time. Players on this there's a player
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: on this team Florida State that left before the transfer portal,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: uh Terrence Shannon, who left and went to a VCU
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: and you know, basically left Florida State and the Lurks
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: because they were counting on him. And from what I understand,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: when he, you know, wanted to come back and just
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: kind of use the facility or hang out, like Leonard
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  Speaker 2: Hamilton brought them back like a family member that he
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: wasn't happy with me. He's just always had these close,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: close relationships, So to have a bunch of his players
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: last year suing him is very strange. Now, the one
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: thing I would say is, you know, he is at
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: the end of his career. This is a changing landscape,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: this nil and a transfer portal and all this is
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: very different. So perhaps he acted in a way he's
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: never really acted before because this world has changed so
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: quickly and so dramatically. But the other part of it is,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: you know, Leonard Hamilton, you know, might be in the
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: last year of his coaching career. Maybe he has another year,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: maybe he doesn't. But you know, this lawsuit may not
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: even be resolved by the time he's done coaching. So
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: it's it's weird, a weird time in sports. And this
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: is very, like you said, very out of character for
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Leonard Hamilton.
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  Speaker 1: It just smacks me as one of those lawsuits that
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you file to try to get a settlement. Iirad thanks
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: as always, I appreciate your time, my friend.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Thanks present to take care