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Bali Episode Long Form Podcast Episode 2 V2 Not Yet · Babes, how did you get here

0:00
I just live my life, like partying, drinking, sometimes drugs, the whole package, you know.
0:05
I said, mom, I think I'm gonna come home.
0:07
She said, yeah, if you wanna come home, it's okay.
0:08
But something from the inside said, it's not done yet.
0:12
I said, you know what, mom, I give it one more chance, one month, and then along the way, I met my ex-girlfriend and she brought me to church.
0:20
And she asked me, do you want to come to church?
0:22
I was like, church, that's boring.
0:24
And then she said to me, okay, if you don't wanna come, then our ways go separate.
0:27
Oh, really?
0:28
It was an ultimatum.
0:29
What do I have to lose, you know?
0:31
I was like, yeah, I will go with you.
0:32
And there is one song that really sticks with me.
0:35
And the lyrics were like, Who am I to deny what the Lord can do?
0:39
And I was like, yeah, who am I, you know?
0:41
I was reading the Bible.
0:43
Nothing came in.
0:44
One sentence, and I literally forgot what I just read.
0:48
And then I found this guy on social media named Jordan.
0:51
And it started in his studio with like 10 people.
0:54
And now we host Bible studies with 150 people.
0:57
150?
0:58
Yeah.
0:59
Here in Bali, there are 150 people doing Bible study.
1:01
You said something earlier about you can do anything and essentially be forgiven.
1:06
Do we really believe that?
1:07
Yeah, I won't say like you have a credit card, you can do whatever you want.
1:10
It's not unlimited.
1:11
I don't want to live my life, call myself a Christian, but still live a worldly lifestyle.
1:17
Do you genuinely feel that you will wait until marriage?
1:20
That's what I want, yeah.
1:21
I just wondered, in your mind, clearly you have considered this decision.
1:24
Do you think there's any aspect of what if you just don't have physical chemistry with somebody?
1:29
He spent seven years in the Dutch military police in Rotterdam, one of Europe's toughest port cities, being trained for things that most of us will never experience.
1:40
He had structure, discipline, a career, and a clear future, yet he walked away from it all.
1:47
Benjamin planned to live in Australia, but somehow we are here in Bali.
1:53
Those first few months were initially financially challenging, emotionally difficult and at times lonely.
2:00
He was a soldier without a mission, forced to rebuild his life in a place that runs on a very different frequency from what he was used to.
2:09
He actually thought about leaving, but something stopped him.
2:12
We will talk about being a male model, going from drinking, partying and drugs to leading Bible study for men so that they too can experience their own transformation.
2:23
Choosing celibacy at 27, there's so much to talk about.
2:28
Before we unpack it all, babes, how did you get here?
2:32
Well, what an introduction.
2:34
Thank you so much.
2:35
How did I end up in Bali?
2:36
So you already mentioned it.
2:38
I was planning to go to Australia and before that traveling for six months in Asia.
2:44
And I quit my job.
2:47
left everything behind, me and my backpack, hopped on a plane and went to Asia, came to Bali and I realized this feels different.
2:58
I was planning to stay for two to three months and now I'm still here for almost over two years now.
3:05
Can you talk to me about what life was like growing up in the Netherlands?
3:10
Safe, safe, pretty easy going.
3:14
I grew up with two older brothers, so it felt like that the doors were already open for me.
3:18
So I just walked through it.
3:23
I have a warm, warm welcome family.
3:26
Parents are still together.
3:28
So I think it's just a warm nest that I grew up in.
3:32
Why did you choose to go in the military?
3:35
I didn't know what to do.
3:36
I didn't like to study.
3:38
Okay.
3:38
I didn't like to study.
3:39
I always was passionate about the police and the military.
3:42
So I thought, okay, that's the right combination to go for.
3:47
But in the end, after seven years, I was like, this is not for me anymore, you know.
3:52
And that's when you started the travel around Asia?
3:56
Yeah, I quit my jobs in 2023, December and January.
4:02
I hopped on a plane.
4:04
And certain things happened in the army, quite funny.
4:07
I always told my friends, I wanted to quit my jobs, but I didn't know really why, or like it wasn't really fulfilling me.
4:17
And then always when something happened, like a big accident or a big incident, it's funny.
4:23
I always was on the toilet.
4:25
I always missed the big fun things, you know?
4:28
Three times in a row it happened.
4:29
I was like, no, this is not for me anymore, you know?
4:32
A career in military police.
4:34
What does that mean?
4:36
So I was working at the airport of Amsterdam and also at, um, guarding the palaces in the Hague of the queen, uh, the king and the queen, uh, that was more like a security job.
4:48
And then I went to the airport of Amsterdam and that's like more like the high risk, so the big incidents and the big accidents, we had to take action there.
4:57
But I have to say I entered in COVID.
5:01
Right.
5:01
So the airport shut down.
5:03
So it was like, what am I doing here?
5:05
It felt like a ghost city.
5:07
And I was walking there like on the empty airport, like what am I doing here?
5:10
Do you think that if COVID hadn't happened, there was a chance that you could still be in the military now?
5:17
Yeah, because like the first two years when I went to Amsterdam, the airport, it was empty, empty, you know?
5:24
So I got like in,
5:28
It was boring sometimes, you know, and then you, you're searching for work, but there is none.
5:32
And then like every day is the same night shifts, morning shifts, late shifts.
5:38
So yeah, it's really hard for me to, to be motivated in those times.
5:43
So I was like, yeah, this is really what I want for the upcoming years.
5:47
You know, Did you ever get to Australia?
5:49
No.
5:52
So when you were doing your travels initially and you were going around other parts of Asia, can you tell me where you went?
5:58
I started in Bangkok.
5:59
I started there for a few days.
6:01
I went to Chiang Mai, did my Muay Thai training camp there.
6:05
Then I did some hopping around the other islands of Thailand, went to Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, and then I came to Bali.
6:13
What was it about Bali's energy that held you?
6:18
It's so funny because I landed, I was driving through Canggu.
6:22
I was like, oh, I'm
6:24
First of all, I can live here, you know?
6:25
And then I went to the gyms and the gyms like are from another level.
6:31
I met such a wonderful people and they also stayed long-term here.
6:36
So I got connected with people who are living here instead of just hopping around.
6:42
And then I got more rooted in the communities here.
6:47
Just felt different than the other places where I've been.
6:50
More welcoming, more open.
6:52
Can you tell me if there were any things that you needed to adjust to being in Bali?
6:57
The pace?
6:58
Slower.
6:58
Yeah.
6:59
Right.
7:01
And also things when they say, oh, we can do tomorrow and next month is still not done, you know.
7:08
In Jamaica, we have a saying and we say, soon come.
7:10
It's very similar.
7:12
It might not come.
7:13
It might never come.
7:14
But either way, soon come.
7:15
Exactly.
7:17
And when did you decide that you weren't going home or going to Australia?
7:24
So I was here for three months.
7:26
I said to myself, okay, two to three months, a little bit of settling, and then I will go to Australia.
7:30
So I applied for my visa, and then my emails got blocked.
7:35
So I couldn't see my result for that.
7:39
for my visa application and I was like, what's happening?
7:42
You know, like why?
7:43
And I never had that, never in my whole life.
7:45
I was like, wait a minute, it's a bit strange, you know?
7:48
And then I tried to unblock my, tried to reach out to, what is it?
7:55
Hotmail or the,
7:57
But I couldn't get a hold on them.
7:58
And then somehow my other email got also blocked.
8:02
I'm like, what's going on?
8:03
So I couldn't, with my verification email, I couldn't get it done.
8:06
And then I lost my Dutch SIM card, so I couldn't verify with my phone number, I was like, what's going on?
8:14
So then somehow I got a new SIM card in the Netherlands,
8:19
Then I could sort out my emails and stuff.
8:22
And then I said he got rejected because I was traveling to Asia for several months and I had to do like a health check, but I didn't know that.
8:29
So I got rejected.
8:30
And this is for Australia's visa.
8:32
Yes, yes.
8:33
And then I was like, yeah, if that one is like, cost this much effort, maybe it's not meant to be, you know?
8:42
Did you know what you were gonna go to Australia to do?
8:45
Yeah, work as a personal trainer.
8:46
Okay.
8:47
That was the plan.
8:47
Yeah.
8:48
Because I did it as well in the Netherlands for a few, for a year as a part-time job next to the army.
8:56
And then I was like standing on the road.
8:58
I have three options, Australia, stay in Bali or to the Netherlands.
9:05
And also recently my best friend came to Bali and we visited, we had a great time.
9:10
And when he left, I miss home so much.
9:12
Hmm.
9:13
So then Australia got blocked.
9:15
I was like, you know what?
9:16
Maybe I'm just going to go home, you know?
9:18
So I texted my mom.
9:20
I said, mom, I have now the ticket in front of me.
9:23
I think I'm going to come home.
9:24
She said, why?
9:25
You had bought the ticket?
9:26
No, I had it in front of me.
9:27
Okay, just looking to book.
9:28
I just like one click and I was done, you know?
9:31
I said, mom, I think I'm going to come home.
9:32
She said, yeah, if you want to come home, it's okay.
9:34
Then your journey is over.
9:37
But something from the inside said, it's not done yet.
9:41
But I was like, what is that, you know?
9:42
Like, what do you mean it's not done yet?
9:45
If I want to go home, I go home, you know?
9:47
And I like my ticket in front of me.
9:49
And I said, you know what, mom?
9:51
I give it one more chance, one month.
9:52
She's okay, then we can see, you know?
9:55
And then along the way, I met my ex-girlfriend and she brought me to church.
10:02
And she asked me, do you want me to come to church?
10:05
And I was like, church?
10:06
That's boring.
10:07
And I was like, church?
10:08
Because when I grew up, we went to church back home.
10:11
And we're more like an older style.
10:15
A lot of old people.
10:17
So me there as a young kid, I'm like, what am I doing here?
10:20
So she asked me, do you want to come to church?
10:22
And I was like, well, why, you know?
10:25
And then she said to me, okay, if you don't want to come, then our ways got separate.
10:28
Oh, really?
10:29
It was an ultimatum.
10:30
I was like, you know what, what do I have to lose, you know?
10:32
I was like, yeah, I will go with you.
10:35
And then I was standing there in the church.
10:39
And then there is one song that really stick with me.
10:43
And the lyrics was like, who am I to deny what the Lord can do?
10:48
And I was like, yeah, who am I?
10:50
You know, so I was really stubborn, um, close minded, but then that song came up and that kind of broke down certain walls.
11:01
And then I got more open and more eager to, to read the Bible and to, um,
11:08
really learn about who he is instead of what I knew about from the past.
11:14
Can you tell me a little bit about those barriers or what were your thoughts around religion, Christianity before that experience?
11:24
So what I had from the past, when I went to church,
11:30
In some churches, they spread certain fear, like you shall not do this.
11:34
Otherwise you go to hell.
11:36
I'm like, yeah, I don't, I don't want to be a part of that.
11:38
You know, like, just let me live my life.
11:41
I do what I want, you know?
11:43
And I never really put my interest in ever since.
11:48
And I just live my life.
11:49
Like what you did with the introduction as well, partying, drinking, sometimes drugs, the whole package, you know?
11:56
So God was.
11:59
None.
11:59
Was your family very religious?
12:01
No, we went to church when we were younger, but at one point it was more to kind of honor our grandparents, my grandparents.
12:09
It's more like in that way.
12:11
But since they passed away, we didn't really go anymore.
12:13
So more like that.
12:15
And your ex-girlfriend, where is she from?
12:17
She is from Germany.
12:19
Okay, and she grew up, church was very important.
12:21
No, also not, no.
12:22
Oh, really?
12:23
No, no.
12:23
Do you know how she found religion?
12:25
Yeah, she found, she was in South Africa, I think.
12:29
Oh, really?
12:30
Yeah.
12:31
So you have this experience, you have this song, you're starting to open your mind.
12:36
Was that a long process?
12:39
So I found Christ in June 2024.
12:44
So yeah, it was quite a long journey because when I was reading the Bible, nothing came in.
12:50
Like I was reading, for example, one sentence and I literally forgot what I just read.
12:56
I'm like, I need help with this, you know?
12:58
So I was praying and praying that I was looking for a Bible study, someone who can guide me and walk me through.
13:07
And then I found this guy on social media named Jordan.
13:11
And so we got connected.
13:14
He said, okay, let's meet up for coffee.
13:16
And I told him, I said, man, I want to love more to learn more about the Bible, you know, but I have a hard time understanding it.
13:23
He said, you know, next week I'm gonna start a Bible study.
13:27
I'm like, no way.
13:28
He said, yeah, yeah, would you like to come?
13:30
I said, I would love to.
13:32
And it started in his studio with like 10 people.
13:35
And now we host Bible studies with 150 people.
13:39
150.
13:39
And it started with 10.
13:42
Yeah.
13:42
Here in Bali, there are 150 people doing Bible study on Friday nights.
13:46
On Friday.
13:49
Oh my gosh.
13:50
Friday nights, 150 people are coming together doing Bible study.
13:55
Okay, I'm not religious, but I have a deep respect for faith.
14:02
And I shared these thoughts the other day and I was saying that I feel that back in the day, many people had their religion and that was their moral compass.
14:11
That was kind of the blueprint upon which they knew the rules and how we should treat people
14:17
and the commandments, all of the things.
14:20
And I was saying to someone that I feel that we need some of that back, right?
14:24
I don't feel that I necessarily need church for that, but I respect the values that I feel that we're losing in 2026.
14:32
My question to you is as a young man, is it not considered particularly unusual?
14:38
Because when I read about you and your faith, I was like, oh, really?
14:41
I'm not sure what ideas I had about Christianity, but babe, you don't look like the poster boy.
14:49
You know what I mean?
14:50
Like, that's just not, I think maybe, you know, when he said that you went to church and it was all the people, I think maybe even though I went to church when I was younger, but I'll be honest, it was only so that I could see my boyfriend for another day of the week without my parents finding out.
15:02
But it was for me church then when I was in high school,
15:07
It was the social aspect, it was the music, it was a vibe, right?
15:10
Jamaican church, babe, it's a vibe.
15:12
I can imagine.
15:13
But I guess in my mind, I wanted to know a little bit more about your journey.
15:19
Is it because you felt that you were in a place of such uncertainty that, you know, Christianity helped fill that void?
15:27
Or do you think that you would have got here anyway?
15:31
um it helped along the way 100 because it's every time when i pray for something it literally got brought on a plate really yeah it's really insane yeah when we say pray are we speaking traditionally kneeling closing our eyes and praying or is it not necessary i also pray like when i'm driving on a bike or like when i'm sitting on the beach but yeah every morning i i knew down i said lord
16:01
How do you develop a close relationship with the Lord?
16:07
For sure, reading your Bible, pray,
16:11
And also just when I'm on my own, for example, before this, I would listen to worship music, really to feel his presence as well.
16:18
So in every little moment, try to involve him in everything what you do.
16:22
That's the most important thing what I realized.
16:25
Like in every decision, I just say, Lord, if this is from you or if it's not from you, take it away or let me have a sense of peace that I can trust it and go forward with it.
16:37
You know, in the beginning when you said that you were finding it difficult and you needed the guidance of your friend to help you understand, was there a particular moment where you felt an overwhelming assurance that this path was the path for you?
16:55
For sure, when I just literally my whole life started to change, literally like my desires, because I am now sober for almost two years,
17:06
since I haven't partied, I don't have the desire to be in a night.
17:09
No, baby, right.
17:10
Friday night.
17:10
Yeah.
17:11
So the Bible study just to see not like I knew in one moment, OK, this is the way.
17:17
But like over time, like things start to change a really in a natural way.
17:22
And I think looking back at it now, I would never expect if you would tell me like when I was in the army, hey, Ben, over three years, you're going to live in Bali
17:32
give bible studies to fellow brothers or like go on friday to to bible studies i would slap on your head and like what are you talking so i would never expect it no no no so there's not really one moment that i thought okay this is the way but like over time like renewing your mind with the with the word of god that really changed over time like every day like feel yourself
17:56
Can you describe to me when we say a life of partying and drinking and occasional drug use, what does that mean for you?
18:03
What does that look like?
18:04
Was that in reference to your modeling career and socially?
18:08
No, dude, in Netherlands we have pretty big festivals.
18:12
So I went there pretty often just being in the nightlife in Amsterdam, Rotterdam, um,
18:19
Yeah, just like Netherlands is known for its open vibes.
18:23
I've only been to Amsterdam, I've not been to Rotterdam.
18:25
It's known for the red light district.
18:28
It's known for being really liberal as it relates to drug policy.
18:32
Do you think that that helps young people?
18:35
Because for example, in Jamaica, we were not as liberal.
18:39
as you guys, but you know, you back in my day, I don't know if it's changed, I'm a bit old babes, but like you never got ID'd, right?
18:46
Like you'd go to a party or a club and nobody would ever ask you for ID.
18:49
Oh yeah, they do, of course they do.
18:51
No, but for us, you wouldn't, right?
18:52
And so we start drinking earlier than like average people.
18:57
So when I went to boarding school, I was about 16 and I would tell people about like Jamaican parties, we call them session.
19:03
And the point is, is that we weren't like getting drunk off of our faces because one, culturally, it wasn't seen as a good thing, especially for a young lady to be like drunk on the side of the street all the time.
19:17
But also I think a lot of our parting involves food babes.
19:20
So you have the drinking, but you're also eating.
19:23
And I just think that on a whole, there was something about being introduced to alcohol in an open way that meant that you weren't getting any bragging rights, right?
19:32
Like you couldn't go to your friends and be like, oh, this is what I did last weekend because everybody's like, yeah, everybody did.
19:38
And so I always thought that that openness was a good thing for young people because you kind of took away the sensationalism around the forbidden.
19:49
And I'm just wondering, having grown up in the Netherlands, do you agree that those open policies are more helpful or do you think they're more harmful?
20:00
I think it depends.
20:01
I think also the...
20:03
It's a really good question, actually.
20:05
Because when I grew up, it was more like you were the big guy if you drink a lot, you know, like the more drunk you get,
20:15
Oh, more brownie points.
20:16
Yeah.
20:17
Really?
20:18
More attractive?
20:19
No, not attractive.
20:20
But like, for example, the day after, I did drink so much, I did drink this, this and this, and I had so many shots.
20:27
Right.
20:27
So it's more like you're the big guy if you drink a lot, you know.
20:30
You can handle it.
20:30
And then if you, for example, you go to a festival or to a party and you say you don't drink, people say like, are you okay, bro?
20:39
That you're not drinking.
20:40
So it's the complete opposite of what you mentioned, you know?
20:45
When we say drugs, what kind of drugs are we talking about?
20:48
Because I think- Some party drugs.
20:51
Some party drugs.
20:51
So again, my Jamaican upbringing.
20:54
The first time I ever saw anything outside of weed was in New York and I was traumatized.
21:00
As in I went to a host party and people were lining up on every surface.
21:05
I'm not exaggerating.
21:06
I stepped outside and the first person I called was my father because I was just like,
21:10
It's a movie, like what is actually going on?
21:12
And I had no idea that that is what I was stepping into.
21:15
I then years later open up restaurants in London and in the bathrooms, people are doing all kinds of thing.
21:21
And it's one toilet.
21:22
You're holding up the toilet for other customers, babes.
21:25
Right.
21:27
And I do think that Europe has quite a casual or maybe even an expectancy that a part of like growing up is being exposed to things.
21:37
Yeah.
21:39
So if you know, for example, ecstasy and MDMA, they are made in Netherlands.
21:44
Oh, really?
21:45
I didn't know that.
21:46
Yeah.
21:46
Okay.
21:47
So, so easily accessible.
21:49
Yeah.
21:50
Yeah.
21:51
And what is the effect of those?
21:53
It's more like, for example, when you're on a festival, it's more like people explain it is if you're like on a happy land or like a few hours, you have like a dopamine high.
22:05
Everyone is nice.
22:06
Everyone is
22:08
Beautiful.
22:09
And you live like on the pink cloud.
22:12
Yeah, yeah.
22:13
Is it socially acceptable to... Yeah, to those festivals.
22:17
Yeah, yeah.
22:18
Really?
22:18
And then if you kind of don't do it, you're again, you're like strange, you know, almost strange, not strange, strange, but...
22:25
Would your parents know that this is what is happening at festivals?
22:28
Yeah, I've told them, but they were not very happy.
22:30
Okay.
22:32
As a parent, I'm taking a detour.
22:34
I'm now thinking ahead.
22:36
Right?
22:36
So my children are currently five.
22:38
When you start going to festivals in Netherlands, are we 16?
22:41
Is that like the age?
22:42
No.
22:43
When I went, half twenties.
22:48
Okay.
22:49
So quite late.
22:50
Yeah.
22:50
How does one, in your opinion, I know you're not an expert, but having had your experiences, how does one make sure, cause I would like my child to live their lives, right?
23:02
And not feel like I'm micromanaging or being an annoying parent, but at the same time, I would like to shield them from certain experiences.
23:10
So it's quite funny.
23:11
I just talked about it recently with a friend of mine.
23:14
I think the open conversation about like, okay, if you do it, just be honest about it.
23:20
Okay, is that what I'm supposed to be saying?
23:21
Then you know what's going on, you know, because if you say you cannot do it, they'll maybe lie about it, you know.
23:28
And then I prefer honesty than lying, you know.
23:32
Can anybody...
23:32
So I appreciate different drugs have different like effects.
23:35
Can people get addicted and like destroy their lives with MDMA and something there?
23:40
Yeah, it's possible.
23:42
Yeah, of course.
23:42
I think you can be addicted to everything, you know.
23:45
So I watched this Halle Berry movie one time.
23:48
Which movie?
23:48
Halle Berry, the actress.
23:50
She's an African-American actress, right?
23:52
And she was in this movie and she was high on lots of things and she lost custody of her child.
23:59
And the point is it was not very glamorous.
24:01
And I remember being young and watching her.
24:04
Her housing was awful, everything was awful.
24:06
And I think that instilled, like that planted the seed in me that I just never wanted to try just in case I ended up looking like her in her house.
24:16
And I think that there is such a casualness to whether it's drugs, alcohol, you know, party scenes that on the outside, I agree with you 100%.
24:27
I want the openness, but on the inside, Benjamin, I just want to be like, babes, please don't touch it.
24:33
Just don't go anywhere near it.
24:36
Yes, it's interesting.
24:38
When you look back on your life before, before religion, before Christianity, Yeah.
24:46
Aside from the lifestyle choices, do you feel that you are a different person?
24:51
100%.
24:52
Yeah, it's 100%.
24:53
The Bible also says it, like if you give your life to Christ, you're a new creation.
24:58
You're not an updated person, like a complete new person.
25:01
So that's really how I feel sometimes as well, because
25:05
For example, the parties, the partying, the drinking, it used to satisfy me, but now I'm two years sober and I don't even think about it anymore.
25:15
So you don't need those things to be filled or to have fun or to have joy in life.
25:23
Because for example, when I pray for others, the same feeling that I had with ecstasy, I have the same when I pray for others, but something even stronger.
25:31
So it's such a big difference between then and now.
25:35
Did you have to lose any relationship?
25:37
No, I won't say that.
25:38
No, I've gained new friends.
25:41
And my old friends, I still talk to them and I still pray for them.
25:45
But the thing is they also live in Netherlands.
25:47
So we live kind of different lives.
25:49
So it's a bit easier because I imagine... Yeah, if you live in the same country, like in the same surroundings, it can be tough.
25:56
Yeah, it can be tough, 100%.
25:59
Especially because presumably some of these friendships would have been centered around this social aspect of your life that you're no longer partaking in.
26:09
So I can imagine that if you were in the same country,
26:13
provide a little attention.
26:14
The thing is, I would make in November and I went for dinner with my friends.
26:20
And I still love them all.
26:22
But they're like drinking and drinking.
26:23
Now I see that they're with my I try like a 0.0 alcohol beer.
26:27
And then that doesn't even taste well.
26:30
So also that like my senses, my it all it all changed, you know?
26:34
Yeah.
26:35
In terms of dating.
26:37
Yeah.
26:38
Is faith a big consideration?
26:42
So you're like your ex, if your partner is not able to share your faith.
26:48
I think it's really important.
26:51
I've been being guided with this and it's really easy explanation.
26:55
If you have like this triangle and you have like Jesus at the center and you're down here, like you and your future wife and you're centered at Christ, you like you have the same vision.
27:07
But then if someone is.
27:10
After a goal or religion somewhere else, you grow differently.
27:14
And the goal is for me to be Christ-like, to have Christ in the center.
27:19
And then the more you grow closer to Christ, you also grow together towards each other.
27:27
You now help other men with their faith and Bible studies.
27:30
Yeah, we have a community with several men in it, yeah.
27:35
There's a lot of talk nowadays about masculinity, about identity as a man.
27:41
And I just wondered, being that you're grounded in faith, how do you feel about conversations that are being had, particularly amongst young men who are trying to figure themselves out?
27:53
They might not be going to the military.
27:55
They might not be traveling to Asia, but it does seem that once upon a time, I felt like
28:01
society's conversations were very much centered around just girls and how we raise girls safely, confidently, all of the things.
28:09
And now we're starting to see a little bit of a shift where attention is now actually being spent on young men.
28:21
So yeah, we live kind of in a broken world, as I would say.
28:27
And
28:29
I think the most important thing is I see people, men and women, I see them as daughters of Jesus and of God.
28:40
And it's more like how you treat one another is so important.
28:44
And I used to sometimes treat women or men also not in the right way.
28:50
I forgot a bit what your question was, but I think it's just...
28:55
What was your question again?
28:56
I think to go back to it, it sounds like your faith has guided you, right?
29:01
It's allowed you to reflect, to know your boundaries, to know the man that you want to be.
29:06
And I think nowadays there seems to be a lot of talk about like toxic masculinity, how men are treating women.
29:14
You know, you described that in the Netherlands to be drinking and to handle your liquor was seen as macho, seen as a good thing.
29:21
And I just wondered, do you feel that more young men need faith
29:26
to perhaps give them that sense of clarity that you seem to have been able to find?
29:30
Yeah, 100%.
29:30
100%.
29:31
Because in the past, I had so much unclarity and uncertainty.
29:34
And I, for example, I tried to fill a certain void in my life.
29:40
And then I started drinking.
29:42
And then I went on dates to fill up some things that was empty from the inside.
29:50
But now I'm...
29:52
filled with the love of God, it's not necessary anymore.
29:55
I'm not seeking attention or that I need a substance to have joy or to have a nice time.
30:04
So I think, yeah, it's 100% important for the younger generation to be filled with the Holy Spirit and by the love of God.
30:14
Are more young people coming to faith?
30:16
Yeah, 100%.
30:17
That's what I see now.
30:19
Also, my social media, I get lots of DMs.
30:21
Hey, your story is very inspiring.
30:24
When is the Bible study?
30:25
Can I attend?
30:28
And also lots of people like I feel broken.
30:30
I need love.
30:32
I need Jesus.
30:33
And yeah, so I try to best to reply to most many people.
30:39
But sometimes it's a lot, you know.
30:41
Yeah, it's hard.
30:43
What do you think are some of the misconceptions?
30:45
You know, I started off by telling you that I don't look at you and see Jesus.
30:49
No offense.
30:50
It's just not what comes to my mind.
30:52
I also don't think about life in Bali and think about that.
30:55
I, you know, the things that I see are a lot of gym workouts, a lot of Lycra and spandex and selfies.
31:03
And so I'm really interested because there's like, it feels like there are two sides to Bali amongst the expat community, right?
31:11
There's a spiritualness that people talk about, but they speak about it more in terms of like wellness retreats, not in terms of, oh, I'm going to Bible study on Fridays.
31:19
And so I wondered, what would you say are some of the misconceptions about being Christian and following your faith?
31:30
The first thing what I always ask when I say I'm a Christian I follow Christ.
31:35
Ah so you cannot have sex before marriage or ah so you cannot drink.
31:40
The thing is maybe this is gonna be sound a little bit weird but you can do everything because you're forgiven by everything what you do but the thing is
31:48
Since I have like a deeper relationship with Christ, I don't want to do it anymore.
31:53
So the desires change from the inside.
31:56
So I don't want to sleep around.
31:58
I don't want to drink.
31:59
I don't want to party.
32:01
That's the biggest difference instead of you cannot do this or you cannot do that, you know.
32:05
So nobody told you that you needed to be sober in order to be Christian.
32:09
No, of course not.
32:10
You just didn't have the desire.
32:11
No, it completely changed completely.
32:14
If you, if you ask my friends, like how was I before Christ?
32:18
Yeah, I was spoiling and drinking a lot, you know.
32:21
Tell me a bit about modeling.
32:23
You were modeling in the Netherlands.
32:25
Yeah, I started there.
32:27
And what is life like as a male model?
32:30
I've never really considered it from your perspective.
32:33
When I was in Netherlands, it was really minimal because I was in the army as well and a PT.
32:39
So every time when I got a job,
32:41
I couldn't do it.
32:42
So I was like, come on, man.
32:44
So to be honest, I completely forgot about it.
32:46
I was like, yeah, it's not going to, it's not my path.
32:48
It's okay.
32:50
And then before I left, I had a couple of jobs.
32:53
So I had like few photos from my portfolio, what I could use.
32:57
And then I went to places in Asia and I applied to certain jobs.
33:03
Um.
33:04
And then I got accepted for jobs in the Maldives, Bangkok, Vietnam.
33:12
So just like all over, you know.
33:14
So that's cool.
33:15
Yeah.
33:15
Very nice.
33:16
But it's, I think there's also a big difference between like proper fashion modeling, like with the catwalks, because I don't do that because the model world can also be preferred, you know, very dark.
33:28
And that's why I want to bring light in a dark industry.
33:32
Yeah.
33:33
Did you have any glimpses of those dark moments within the industry?
33:38
Or did you know that you were keeping yourself away from that?
33:41
So, for example, what I always do, I always pray before I have the job, like to be protected and to be...
33:47
And to kind of move those people away from me and to not come near me, for example.
33:52
And then I always share my faith when I'm on jobs and I always say that I'm a Christian.
33:58
And so they kind of, I set my boundary and I sense that people respect it as well.
34:03
Okay.
34:04
And especially what you also say that they don't expect it.
34:07
So they're like surprised, you know?
34:08
So I think I do my best wherever I can to guard myself.
34:14
Let's say it in that way.
34:15
In life in general, if you're meeting people socially, do you feel that it is necessary to let people know that you're a Christian?
34:24
No, not necessary.
34:25
You don't have to say like, oh, you don't have to write it on your chest.
34:27
A badge.
34:28
No, it's unnecessary.
34:30
I think if you just, for example, I always say lead by example.
34:34
I think that's the most important one.
34:36
Yeah.
34:36
Because if you live like your life in a certain way, people will see it's different, you know, and they will feel it.
34:43
You say that you help young men with their unhealthy habits or addiction.
34:49
Is that because you yourself have had to go through that journey?
34:54
So with the Bible study that Jordan has started, it started more like as a casual Bible study for men as well.
35:02
And then along the way, we figured out that lust is a big problem.
35:07
And people are struggling with porn, masturbation, sex, the whole package.
35:13
So they kind of pivot the topics.
35:18
And the more we talked about it, the more people opened up and they shared about the struggles and things.
35:24
So we encourage people to stay celibate if they want it, if they're really in the heart and they say, okay, I want to get rid of this, then we can help you and then we can guide you and walk with you with the journey.
35:39
The 150 Bible study is just men?
35:41
No, no, no, that's mixed.
35:43
Okay.
35:43
For example, yesterday we had a Bible study on Mondays and that's with men and that's 40, 40-ish.
35:48
Okay.
35:49
And what is the advantage of having these single sex Bible study sessions?
35:55
uh way more openness they're more open to with the struggles and um because the thing is if women are there somehow have the same somehow you keep things for yourself and like that that's not for everyone to to hear you know so there's more vulnerability 100 100 and then if one opens up the other one goes and then like the whole crowd goes yeah
36:21
When you decided to abstain from sex, again, was this just one of the desires that you just didn't feel anymore?
36:29
What I figured out since I stopped doing it, I've got way more energy, way more clarity.
36:40
And also when I say, Lord, I don't wanna do it anymore.
36:43
I wanna wait until marriage.
36:46
So my other, the business thing, they flow.
36:50
It's really crazy.
36:50
You're more aligned.
36:52
What I sense when you live more according to the Bible.
36:55
That's what I realized.
36:57
How old are you now?
36:58
27.
37:00
How long have you abstained?
37:02
Since start this year.
37:04
So we are one month in, we're five months in.
37:08
Do you genuinely feel that you will wait until marriage?
37:12
That's what I want, yeah.
37:13
That's what you want to do.
37:15
So my question, I have a friend who's very religious, and that is one of the things that she actually doesn't do.
37:21
And I've asked her her opinion on why.
37:23
And she said because she feels that we downplay the need of physical intimacy.
37:28
And if she waited until marriage for her partner, what if they didn't have...
37:34
the chemistry or what if it whatever, what if that was the reason why actually I've waited all this time, I thought it was going to be this and maybe it was wine instead of a blah, blah, and then there's a whole ruin of this relationship.
37:45
And I just wondered in your mind, clearly you have considered this decision.
37:49
Do you think there's any aspect of what if you just don't have physical chemistry with somebody?
37:54
And you've waited until you married them?
37:57
The thing is, what I what my mentor also always say, is
38:02
It's so important to love your partner also when the clothes are on and not only when the clothes are off, you know.
38:09
So to really generally love the person or who she is and not like what comes with it.
38:14
So I think that's the most important part.
38:16
So even if the sex was shit after marriage, you'll be fine.
38:18
I think God will really bless the relationship once you keep the kind of your own and
38:28
I think according to his will, I truly believe that he will bless the relationship 100%.
38:34
Does your faith make it harder to meet people because you know what you want?
38:41
You have this clarity.
38:43
And I think sometimes a dating scene in general is difficult, even without, you know, clear boundaries.
38:49
Yeah, I haven't been dating for like since starting this year or like after my last relationship.
38:57
I haven't been dating because I feel that I need to
39:03
Not me, but some things in my heart I need to be refined.
39:09
Okay.
39:09
So, and I also, I think it's not my season to focus on that right now.
39:17
Right now, what's our focus?
39:21
Business and also to work on my relationship with Lord.
39:26
People see Bali, right?
39:27
We see it online and we have this idea of what life is like here.
39:31
You mentioned that in those first few months, it was financially like hard.
39:37
And I was really intrigued by that because I think so many people online try and portray a particular image about Bali.
39:44
For example, you see these beautiful villas.
39:46
We all know the beautiful villas with the rattan and the pool.
39:50
And then I learned that people are sharing like six people in a house.
39:54
So I was like,
39:56
That's not the image I had in mind, babes, you know?
39:59
And you start to slowly chip away at like what is actually going on behind the social media.
40:05
Behind the scenes.
40:06
Right?
40:07
And I just wondered what was your personal experience in terms of not just financially, but in general?
40:14
What are some of the things that people would not expect from your life here in Bali?
40:20
So because when I came, my first intention was to go to Australia to work there, you know.
40:27
So I wasn't planning to stay and live here.
40:31
So then I figured out, okay, I want to stay here.
40:34
I need some type of job.
40:37
And then you meet so many people.
40:39
He's doing trading.
40:40
He's doing e-com.
40:41
He's doing affiliate marketing, whatever.
40:46
And they say, yeah, just do this and it will work out.
40:48
And because there are so many people doing different things, you get lost, you know.
40:53
So and then people come and they say, yeah, I don't have an income, but I will be locked in for a few months and then I will get it sorted.
41:00
Yes, some people will make it happen, but also lots of people, they will go home, you know.
41:05
Do most people come here, run out of money and go home?
41:08
That's a common thing.
41:10
Yeah.
41:10
Yeah.
41:11
Yeah.
41:13
And also they... Because Bali's... Everybody says Bali's cheap, you know?
41:17
Of course, you can have a decent, cheap lifestyle.
41:21
But still, if you live like in a proper villa by yourself or like with some roommates, it's still pricey, you know?
41:30
And if you...
41:32
You can eat at the local places, it's really cheap, but sometimes my belly doesn't like it.
41:37
Do you get affected?
41:38
In the beginning, yes, a lot.
41:40
Really?
41:40
Yeah, a lot.
41:41
I've never, touch wood, I've never had barney belly.
41:44
I think in the beginning almost every month.
41:46
Really?
41:46
Like my stomach was so upset, yeah.
41:48
Oh no!
41:49
And then for a week or two weeks and then I was good and then like again.
41:53
Oh babe!
41:54
Yeah, that was bad.
41:55
So, but then if you go to the proper restaurants, you still pay.
42:00
some amount and for example I don't cook so every time I go out for food you know so it adds does anyone in Bali cook I feel like I'm the only person finding an oven every day babe every day I cook all the time I cooked at five o'clock this morning to get everything ready for my girls for the day and I need an oven right because it's easier for me to season the meat put the veg and just put everything in the oven finding an oven
42:26
in bali you would never know okay but it is a challenge because nobody is cooking no nobody only me but yeah also you don't cook at all yeah only sometimes breakfast i make my eggs and that's it so you i guess adjusting to food how are you with spice
42:47
In the beginning it was nothing, but now I'm training myself, you know.
42:51
So now it's okay.
42:52
Now you can eat the local sambal and yeah.
42:55
Oh, I love sambal.
42:55
It's very good.
42:56
Oh my god.
42:58
Has your family been here to visit you?
42:59
So they came three years ago, but now they're coming this October.
43:05
Amazing.
43:05
So my mom and dad and my uncle and my auntie.
43:08
Very, very cool.
43:09
And maybe my brother comes again because he came last year as well.
43:12
Sure.
43:13
So maybe he comes again this year as well.
43:15
When you just came to Bali, clearly your journey of Bali would have been very different, right?
43:20
Because of your journey through your Bible study and people, someone asked me in a taxi the other day, he's like, oh, why do you like Bali?
43:28
Is it because of the parties?
43:29
I was like, babes, I have children.
43:30
I'm in my house.
43:32
You know, when they go to bed, I'm in the house.
43:34
I've never been out anywhere here.
43:35
And he was like, really?
43:36
He seemed so surprised.
43:37
I was like, no, I love, I love Bali because of the energy.
43:41
I mentioned to you, it feels like Jamaica to me.
43:43
Even landscape, it looks like Jamaica.
43:45
The food, you wouldn't know, babe.
43:47
But when I go to the market, the food, the ingredients is very similar to Jamaica.
43:53
All of it, the cassava, the things that you won't know about.
43:55
So I won't bore you.
43:56
But, and I was like, that energy of just feeling at home minus the language is really reassuring.
44:03
And I do love the lifestyle.
44:05
I will spend more on a villa that I'm not sharing with anybody because I spend a lot of time at home.
44:11
It's more like the first time we came here, I needed to do all of the sites, you know?
44:15
searching yeah and then after a few weeks it just felt like our natural rhythm of ordering my coconut and my iced coffee and doing homeschooling um but the point is is that i feel like my life in bali is very different to what other people come here and experience from a nightlife he was talking about the beaches i was like i don't like the beaches here no offense i just i'm not a fan where have you been to the beaches
44:38
So I went to New Solumbongon as my furthest expedition.
44:42
Yeah.
44:43
But babe, I'm from Jamaica.
44:44
Okay.
44:44
My beach.
44:45
Come on now.
44:47
Okay.
44:47
We don't play.
44:48
We don't play.
44:49
No offense.
44:49
But if you're coming from Europe, you probably love them.
44:52
Babes.
44:53
Okay.
44:54
And even the other day, my dad visited for the first time.
44:57
I just put him on the plane yesterday at the airport.
45:00
And we went to Seminyak and had really nice crab.
45:04
Don't get me wrong.
45:05
But the beach, the sand was dirty.
45:08
No, Semi-Yok's not rice.
45:09
What is this?
45:10
And there were just flags saying that you can't swim anywhere because the water is too rough.
45:14
I was like, yeah, no, we'll just eat the crab.
45:16
Just eat the crab.
45:17
But I'm just wondering in terms of your experience, how would you describe your different Bali lives, if you like?
45:27
I always say Bali is like two camps.
45:29
And I always say like sometimes Bali is like Temptation Island, you know?
45:33
Because there are parties everywhere and the nightlife is really booming, as I would say.
45:41
But you also have the healthy lifestyle with the amazing gyms, the healthy restaurants.
45:48
And so for me, I live a really peaceful lifestyle.
45:55
I don't party anymore.
45:56
So I always say nothing good happens after 10 p.m., you know?
46:01
So, for example, I just wake up early in the morning.
46:05
I just went to a restaurant where I always go every morning.
46:08
I get my coffee, I get my breakfast.
46:10
And then I usually go to work or do some meetings.
46:14
And then in the afternoon I meet up with guys or just some other working session.
46:20
And then I have the Bible studies in the evening, or we have like a worship night in the evening, or we go to the beach and worship the Lord.
46:30
Or we have like a fellowship dinner.
46:31
So just a really easy going going lifestyle, you know, and no partying.
46:37
No, no.
46:38
You said Bali's temptation.
46:39
I like that.
46:40
I imagine and I hope I'm not objectifying you, but babes, you're tall.
46:45
You're very commercially pretty, as we would say in Jamaica, right?
46:49
I imagine that it can be quite difficult to
46:53
to stay on the straight and narrow and focused i imagine that again in bali there's a lot of expats a lot of people traveling i imagine that people or women specifically are making it difficult for you no
47:11
Yeah, in the beginning it was quite tough.
47:15
And I'm but the other thing I also give into it.
47:18
So and now I just don't entertain it.
47:23
And for example, I also live now in a Christian co-living.
47:28
So I live with four other Christian men and that really helps as well.
47:32
Are you all celibate?
47:34
Yeah.
47:34
Okay.
47:35
So we keep it so accountable.
47:36
And so.
47:38
when something happens or for example and we always almost together okay so and i don't really get approached or something or i don't approach or entertain anything at the moment no okay you sound very disciplined
47:58
Do you think your military training has prepared you for the journey of your life?
48:02
I don't just mean with faith.
48:04
I mean, you know, coming to a new country, not having an actual plan, not knowing exactly what you were going to do in the beginning.
48:12
For some people, those are moments that break them, right?
48:14
It's too much pressure.
48:16
Yeah.
48:16
And they're like, yo, that flight that you were looking at, they would have clicked.
48:20
Do you think that your military background has influenced your life at all?
48:25
That's a good question.
48:28
Maybe the uncertainty, because like where you have the military academy, nothing is really clear what you're going to do, you know.
48:36
So I think in terms like that way, yes, it might have helped.
48:43
But mostly what I realized and what I still apply every day, what I learned is always to be on time and to respect everything.
48:53
the time of others as well, you know, and I hate people late.
48:56
Yeah.
48:56
They're like, maybe it's a Dutch... My dad hates it too.
49:00
Yeah.
49:00
Maybe it's a Dutch thing, but for example, in the military, this is saying, for example, if you meet up at 12 and you arrive at 12, you're too late because when you're on time, you're too late.
49:12
So you always had like a five minimum, if to be early, then the actual time you meet.
49:19
You would not survive Jamaica.
49:21
No?
49:21
At all.
49:22
Yeah, but Bali is the same, so I'm kind of getting used to it.
49:25
But it's sometimes a bit annoying, you know, then you meet up with people and then and they 30 minutes later, they're still not there, you know?
49:32
You're like, what?
49:34
Do you see Bali as your forever home or somewhere?
49:37
For now, yes.
49:38
Okay.
49:38
But forever, yeah, you never know how it goes, but just everything for me is here now.
49:44
So, and I feel like that I'm really getting rooted and everything just flows for now.
49:49
So there's no reason for me to,
49:51
To go somewhere else.
49:52
And I'm also someone who is...
49:55
When I'm sorted, I'm sorted.
49:57
And I don't want to change too often to places.
50:01
No, I'm a really... Once you're comfortable, you're good.
50:05
Because I've been thinking, okay, what if I now move to...
50:08
maybe Thailand or I know that I need to start over all over again, you know, meet people.
50:14
No, for now I'm good.
50:16
For now I'm really good.
50:17
You mentioned that when your friend came to visit you early in your journey here and left, that there was a sense of loneliness.
50:24
I think now more than ever, people are thinking about moving abroad.
50:28
And I think there are some people who just can't visualize their life outside of that comfort routine, the things that they're used to.
50:36
And then there's other people that truly underestimate the loneliness aspect because it's not really talked about, especially from a man.
50:43
You don't hear men talking about that feeling.
50:46
And I just wonder...
50:48
what advice would you give someone who is thinking not necessarily of moving abroad but of making a change in their life yeah i i think if you don't do it you will never know so and i don't want to be on my death bath thinking oh what if i you know no no no you can better just do it and maybe think along the way oh this is not for me
51:13
then always have the loop in your head like what if I had done this or what if I had done that you know you said something earlier about you can do anything and essentially be forgiven right as in through faith you can ask for forgiveness yeah do do we really believe that like yeah I won't say like you have you have a credit card you can do whatever you want it's not unlimited
51:40
So for everything what you do, you are forgiven.
51:43
Because Jesus died on the cross.
51:45
He took all of our sins, sickness, and everything, the curses.
51:49
So actually, yes, we are forgiven for everything what we do.
51:53
But I always say you cannot use Jesus as a, he got my back, you know, he has your back.
51:59
But for me, that doesn't sound fair.
52:01
You know, I just, I don't want to live my life, call myself a Christian, but still live a worldly lifestyle.
52:08
You know what I mean?
52:09
I think that's a bit.
52:13
I guess one of the questions that always comes to my mind when I think about faith and I admire people's strength in faith is when life is shitty and I'm not talking, oh, I've had a bad day.
52:26
For example, let's say I lose my dad tomorrow.
52:30
Right.
52:31
And I feel that that is unjust.
52:34
Right.
52:34
And my all knowing all the things that I'm doing is just, right.
52:37
Right.
52:38
jesus or lord allowed that to happen how do you rationalize not being resentful or angry when bad things are happening in your life when bad things are happening in my life um it can be like maybe a certain season i won't say that you had to go through but certain moments in your life can can build you up you know
53:06
And for example, he met me also at my lowest when I was not where I wanted to be, you know.
53:15
So he can meet you at your lowest because then you see like I have nothing left.
53:19
The only thing what I have is the Lord.
53:22
And.
53:24
Yeah, it's always a tough question when people ask like, yeah, but this happened.
53:28
What?
53:29
Why?
53:29
You know, yeah, that's a really good question that I don't really have to answer on.
53:33
That's also for me sometimes a really hard question to answer.
53:36
To grapple with.
53:41
Do you think that...
53:44
In life, everyone, not necessarily Christianity, because obviously we live in a world.
53:48
One of the things that I find beautiful about Bali actually is that obviously Indonesia as a country is the largest population, Muslim population in the world.
53:57
And yet in Bali, we see where Hinduism has a huge space.
54:01
And I love the idea of having all of these.
54:04
people with different backgrounds somehow finding a way to like make it work and to be honest with you i think that's one of the things that kind of pushed me away a bit from religion in the sense that it's like the number one cause of war you know what i mean and why can't everyone kind of just find their lane and enjoy and respect their lane without saying that one person is wrong or or one person is right yeah but then when you described like being able to find your partner
54:33
and being aligned in that way, that had like serious clarity for me.
54:38
I'm just wondering if on a day to day, like social basis, do you think that you can still have deep relationships without shared faith, not intimate ones, just platonic relationships?
54:50
Yeah, of course.
54:51
Yeah.
54:52
Yeah, I feel like you're a really open minded Christian.
54:55
Yeah, but the thing is, the Bible also says love one another, you know, and love the neighbor
55:03
yourself.
55:04
So I think that's really important that you have compassion for one another and that you just kind of show them also the love of Jesus because he also went to the non-believers and showed them his goodness and who he is and what he has done.
55:23
He also died for them, not only for Christians, you know.
55:27
Your energy is very calming.
55:29
And I feel like, is there any lesson that you believe in through your Bible study that you have found it difficult to adopt?
55:39
Obedience.
55:40
Obedience?
55:40
Yeah, obedience.
55:41
Okay.
55:42
Yeah.
55:43
So when I moved into the Christian coalition we have,
55:50
I think it's also maybe a bit Asian, Asian culture.
55:54
So Jordan had like a certain list that we kind of had to follow.
55:57
And I love it.
55:59
For example, that we have to, I want to say like a proper schedule, but that we had to worship in the mornings and stuff like that.
56:06
And also he said like, okay, you have to be not dating any girls.
56:12
That was his...
56:14
Because he said, okay, if you live in this house, we keep it pure.
56:16
Yes.
56:17
And we want to focus on the Lord.
56:18
That's and then everything will flow from there.
56:22
So and other things that he, um, the Bible also said that we have to honor our leaders and he's like, he's my leaders, I would say.
56:32
So sometimes when he asked us things or, and then in the beginning, it was hard for me to
56:42
to obey to the things that he said.
56:45
Because I was like, yeah, when I was in the military, I was already listening to so many things like, I don't want to listen to someone else in that way, you know.
56:53
But then I realized, okay, if you obey your leaders, it's what God wants for us, you know.
56:58
So then I was like, okay, now it makes sense.
57:02
Very cool.
57:03
I have some quickfire questions.
57:06
You just answer either one.
57:07
It's very lighthearted.
57:08
It's not very deep.
57:10
Ubud or Canggu?
57:11
Canggu.
57:12
Oh, really?
57:15
Normally I design these questions not to ask any follow up questions, but I want to know.
57:18
You said that so quickly.
57:19
So Ubud, of course you have nice waterfalls there, but also it's more... You know, new age?
57:31
new age centered and i prefer to be also near the coast that's one thing and the new age people i respect them but they're not your vibe yeah cool coconut water or iced coffee yeah i drink more iced coffee but coconut was really good military or modeling oh modeling oh yeah yeah rice fields or the beach
58:00
Car or moped?
58:02
Moped.
58:03
The traffic here is no joke.
58:05
Tremendous.
58:07
It is crazy.
58:08
Sometimes it's the worst, you know.
58:10
Especially when it's like 3pm and the sun is burning.
58:14
Yeah.
58:15
It's so bad.
58:17
Babigoodling or satay?
58:20
Ayam, satay, chicken.
58:22
Yeah.
58:22
Oh, you don't eat pork?
58:24
I prefer not to.
58:25
Okay, cool.
58:26
Good to know.
58:28
And my last question is ter makasih or do you say suksama?
58:32
Ter makasih.
58:34
If your life was a postcard, what would the picture look like?
58:38
So a friend of mine, he has a, he's a painter.
58:42
And he makes those cards and then he gets the revelation from God and then he paints like a painting.
58:49
And one painting really stood me out.
58:51
There was like a green field.
58:54
And it was like Jesus from the back with like a little child.
58:58
And that was one of the most beautiful things that he painted.
59:03
Like with the sun set.
59:05
And then like Jesus with the hand with a small kid.
59:08
And I was like, oh, damn, that's us, you know.
59:11
That he takes us by the hand and guides us through our life, you know.
59:15
So...
59:16
Amazing.
59:17
Is there anything that you would have wanted to touch on or speak about that we haven't?
59:22
I think it's all done.
59:22
All good?
59:23
Thank you very much.
59:24
Thank you.