Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #758 What to do When Your Child is 'Tent-ative' About School Camp

Transcript

#758 What to do When Your Child is 'Tent-ative' About School Camp · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just answers.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: Now, so I would actually be looking for ways to
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  Speaker 2: create an element of camping in an environment that feels
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  Speaker 2: so much safer and so much more familiar.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 2: Every week on the Happy Families Podcast, we answer your
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  Speaker 2: questions and we have a question that I think is
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  Speaker 2: going to be on the minds of a lot of
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  Speaker 2: parents as school camps get closer. Hello, my name's doctor
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  Speaker 2: Justin Colslan here with my wife Kylie under our six kids.
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  Speaker 3: Kylie, let me read this one to you.
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  Speaker 2: It's from somebody who wanted to stay anonymous to protect
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  Speaker 2: I guess, their family and their little guy. The question
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  Speaker 2: says this, Hi, I love the podcast, recent convert and
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: trying to listen to some of the backstories as well.
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  Speaker 2: One question I have is about anxiety and young boys.
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  Speaker 2: My ten year old is a sensitive little guy in
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  Speaker 2: year five. He's always been afraid of alpha males and
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  Speaker 2: around himself with girlfriends.
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  Speaker 3: Now that they're in year.
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  Speaker 2: Five at school, his first ever camp is coming up
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  Speaker 2: in five months time. He's expressed to me that He's
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  Speaker 2: scared about the prospect of sleeping in the dark in
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  Speaker 2: a cabin with a bunch of boys, and he doesn't
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  Speaker 2: want to be away from us. He also struggles when
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  Speaker 2: we go away on holidays and sleeping in a new place,
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  Speaker 2: so I think part of it might have something to
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  Speaker 2: do with the unknown, and he's not good with new
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  Speaker 2: things like food. For the record, he has had sleepovers
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  Speaker 2: at my parents' house, but nowhere else, and he had
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  Speaker 2: two little friends sleepover when he was in Grade one.
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  Speaker 2: Tho were both girls and that went well at the
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  Speaker 2: time when we have cuddles in bed after reading and
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  Speaker 2: before going to sleep, he's been in tears about the
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  Speaker 2: pending camp, so I think that they're talking about it
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  Speaker 2: at school a little more in the last few weeks.
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  Speaker 2: I've said to him that we can work on the
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  Speaker 2: dark thing, at least by reducing the brightness of the
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  Speaker 2: night light gradually and hopefully working towards no night light
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  Speaker 2: and a closed bedroom door by camp time. I'm not
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  Speaker 2: sure how I can help him with the separation anxiety,
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  Speaker 2: except that I brought his old comforter so that he
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  Speaker 2: can bring that along when the time comes, and I've
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  Speaker 2: promised him that he can bring a pillow in his
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  Speaker 2: favorite sleeping bag from home, where a very nuclear family,
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  Speaker 2: two parents, two kids. His younger sister is eight and
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  Speaker 2: pushes them around a lot. And my husband Li are
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  Speaker 2: both very involved with the kids. And you can hear that,
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  Speaker 2: can't you When you listen to this email. It's such
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  Speaker 2: a I just love how much parents love their kids
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  Speaker 2: and want them to do well. But Kylie, school camp,
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  Speaker 2: leaving home, sleeping in the dark with a room full
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  Speaker 2: of boys, quiet, sensitive kid, Kylie. There's a whole lot
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  Speaker 2: of things that we can do to help any families
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  Speaker 2: whose son or daughter might be heading away on a camp.
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  Speaker 2: We've been through this with our kids, never really had
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  Speaker 2: any major problems with it, right, Our kids were pretty
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  Speaker 2: keen to get away, they were excited about the prospects,
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  Speaker 2: and they didn't have the same kind of response.
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  Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean that we can't be helpful. So
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  Speaker 3: a handful of things stand out for both of us.
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  Speaker 2: You took a great, big, deep breath, like you are
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  Speaker 2: ready to dive straight in. What was the first thing
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  Speaker 2: that was on your mind?
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  Speaker 4: I just think ten is really young age. It's hard
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  Speaker 4: enough to go and stay at grandma's as a ten
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  Speaker 4: year old, or gone and staying at your best friend's place,
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  Speaker 4: like these are places that are actually your children are
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  Speaker 4: familiar with. But to actually go on a camp with
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  Speaker 4: your entire class and often an entire grade, which means
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  Speaker 4: multiple classes, say in a you know that all of
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  Speaker 4: the things that he's worried about is completely normal that
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  Speaker 4: as a young ten year old you would have all
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  Speaker 4: of those concerns. Some kids like you obviously loved it.
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  Speaker 4: Any chance to get away.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, yeah, I'm not the quite retiring type
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  Speaker 2: like this little boy seems to be.
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  Speaker 4: And I also the one thing I will say is
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  Speaker 4: at ten years of age, if you don't feel your
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  Speaker 4: child is actually ready for that schoolcap's not compulsory.
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  Speaker 2: No it's not, but a lot of memories are made.
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  Speaker 2: And I also want to emphasize that avoidance reinforces anxiety,
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  Speaker 2: and this is an opportunity for a child to I guess,
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  Speaker 2: step up. Let's go through a couple of things very briefly.
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  Speaker 2: I want to talk about in my book The Parenting,
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  Speaker 2: I talk about three basic psychological needs that kids have.
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  Speaker 2: They need to feel a sense of closeness and bonding
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  Speaker 2: with those around them. They need to fill a level
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  Speaker 2: of competence and capability, and they need to have a
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  Speaker 2: sense of control.
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  Speaker 3: So what's going on.
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  Speaker 2: With a situation like this is we've got a little
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  Speaker 2: boy who doesn't have great friendships with the boys that
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  Speaker 2: he's going to end up stuck in a room with
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  Speaker 2: and spending a whole lot of time with, so that
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  Speaker 2: need is not being met. It makes sense therefore that
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  Speaker 2: he would be nervous about it. Secondly, though, because of
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  Speaker 2: the sense of I'm going to say a low level
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  Speaker 2: of competence. That is, he doesn't feel safe and capable
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  Speaker 2: of sleeping in a dark room without his parents and separating.
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  Speaker 2: That competence need is not being met, so it feels
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  Speaker 2: low and he feels like it's being forced to go.
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  Speaker 2: So this is a perfect storm, a perfect recipe for
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  Speaker 2: some negative and challenging experiences if we can't set things up.
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  Speaker 2: The great thing is we've got a mum who send
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  Speaker 2: us a note five months early.
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  Speaker 4: And that's the great thing. There's time that so much
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  Speaker 4: can change in five months. So when I think about
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  Speaker 4: this situation, the first thing that stands out to me
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  Speaker 4: is who are the boys that he would most likely
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  Speaker 4: be able to build friendships with? Where is the commonality.
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  Speaker 4: How can we join a handful of boys together to
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  Speaker 4: help create a safety net for him?
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  Speaker 2: And this is one of the great challenges with school camp.
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  Speaker 2: And anyone who's a school teacher and who has tried
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  Speaker 2: to organize who's going to be in which cabin knows
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  Speaker 2: exactly what we're talking about. I know that no parent
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  Speaker 2: wants to be that parent that gets in the face
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  Speaker 2: of the teachers and says, but my child has these
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  Speaker 2: needs and you need to do this, this and this
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  Speaker 2: whole my child can't go to camp.
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  Speaker 3: But I absolutely think that I don't.
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  Speaker 4: Think you need to do that. Though with five months
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  Speaker 4: I would my personal take on it, I would be
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  Speaker 4: going to the teacher and just saying, look, my son's
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  Speaker 4: really struggling with his friendships with his male peers. As
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  Speaker 4: a teacher, when you look at the classroom, is there
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  Speaker 4: any child you know or children that you feel, with
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  Speaker 4: a little bit of a nudge, my son could make
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  Speaker 4: friends with.
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  Speaker 3: Well, that's all I was going to say.
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  Speaker 2: We're not getting overly involved, but we are highlighting this
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  Speaker 2: is something we're a little bit nervous about. What are
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  Speaker 2: you seeing Who can we build relationships with outside of
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  Speaker 2: the school.
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  Speaker 3: I see it.
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  Speaker 4: Once you've got those names, then you actually create opportunities
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  Speaker 4: for some play dates one hundred percent meet the family,
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  Speaker 4: spend time with them, and over five months, if you
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  Speaker 4: can do enough of that, you actually have a chance
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  Speaker 4: that he's going to be excited because he's got you know,
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  Speaker 4: he can hang out with Johnny.
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  Speaker 3: That's right.
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  Speaker 2: So we've got the relationship building thing happening there. Something
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  Speaker 2: else that might be fun, depending on what your rulers
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  Speaker 2: around sleepovers, is maybe now's the time to organize for
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  Speaker 2: a sleepover or a camp in the backyard. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: I know that our kids have loved it when we've
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  Speaker 2: stuck a tent in the backyard on the grass and
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  Speaker 2: they've been able to have one or two friends over
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  Speaker 2: and they've all slept in the tent overnight and it's
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  Speaker 2: been such an adventure for them. They're really close to
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  Speaker 2: the house, they've got access to bathroom facilities, they've got torches,
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  Speaker 2: there's light, but they're doing.
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  Speaker 3: It on their own.
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  Speaker 2: They're sleeping outside and having that adventure. So I would
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  Speaker 2: actually be looking for ways to create an element of
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  Speaker 2: camping in an environment that feels so much safer and
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  Speaker 2: so much more familiar. He's going to start to get
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  Speaker 2: a sense of how it feels to sleep outside the
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  Speaker 2: house or sleep in an enclosed space with some other
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  Speaker 2: people who is developing relationships with.
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  Speaker 4: Another thing that we've done in the past is during
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  Speaker 4: the holidays, I've actually hosted like a kid's hangout day. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: and we've just done activities. Not because it's a birthday party,
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  Speaker 4: but just it gives them an opportunity to socialize outside
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  Speaker 4: of the school and have something in common.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels really good when the kids get to
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  Speaker 2: have that creating memories. Totally, Totally so building relationships, Kylie.
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  Speaker 2: When I consider some of the other challenges that are
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  Speaker 2: associated with this situation, We've got a little boy who's
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  Speaker 2: just kind of nervous, and I want to go back
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  Speaker 2: to this idea that avoidance reinforces anxiety. My general take
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  Speaker 2: on these situations is, no matter how uncomfortable it is
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  Speaker 2: for your child to go away on the camp, my
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  Speaker 2: sense is that more often than not, in the vast
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  Speaker 2: majority of cases, the experiences that kids have on the
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  Speaker 2: camp will build their sense of competence, their self efficacy,
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  Speaker 2: their belief in themselves. So they might be saying, but
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  Speaker 2: I can't do it. I'm too scared. This is too
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  Speaker 2: much for me. Then they go and they actually do
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  Speaker 2: the camp, they have the time away from the family,
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  Speaker 2: they do the separation bit, and they come back feeling
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  Speaker 2: like they've grown half a meter in height. They come
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  Speaker 2: back feeling six feet tall because they've.
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  Speaker 3: Done something hard. They've developed that competence.
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  Speaker 2: And I really think that if we step into an
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  Speaker 2: avoidance mentality, we reinforce all of the fears and anxieties
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  Speaker 2: that they have, Whereas if we step forward and say,
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  Speaker 2: when you do hard things, how does it feel, what
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  Speaker 2: we actually do is boost their resilience and we boost
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  Speaker 2: their sense of competence. So as hard as it is
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  Speaker 2: for parents to let go and to I guess have
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  Speaker 2: that slightly firm a line in almost all cases, I
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  Speaker 2: would say it's worth pushing it.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 2: There are some cases where you've got a childho's dealing
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  Speaker 2: with some clinical psychological challenges where you may choose otherwise,
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  Speaker 2: and talking with the school, talking with your mental health
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  Speaker 2: professionals who know your individual circumstances, that's going to be
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  Speaker 2: the best place to go to get guidance around that.
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  Speaker 2: But as a general rule, I'd be saying push through this.
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  Speaker 3: It's worth it.
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  Speaker 2: Allay your own fears and anxieties and get comfortable with
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  Speaker 2: the idea that from time to time your children are
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: going to be uncomfortable. As horrible as that is for
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  Speaker 2: us as parents, we just don't want our kids to
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  Speaker 2: feel those things. They're a necessary part of being human,
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  Speaker 2: and our children will do better in life if they
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: develop the skills to regulate those emotions and push through
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: those challenging things. So there are a couple of other
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  Speaker 2: points that are worth making when we consider kids going
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: away to camp. The first one is that this is
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  Speaker 2: five months away. The build up can be anxiety producing.
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  Speaker 2: So I would say, don't make too big of a
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  Speaker 2: deal about it. Give your kid a hug, let him
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  Speaker 2: know that you know, ask if there's anything you can do,
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  Speaker 2: and then let it be. I wouldn't be making this
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  Speaker 2: a topic of conversation every single day for the next
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  Speaker 2: five months.
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  Speaker 3: Or we can build it into something that is really,
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  Speaker 3: really big.
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  Speaker 2: The last thing I guess that we've got to talk
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  Speaker 2: about here. We've dealt with being away from you, the separation, anxiety,
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  Speaker 2: and the building relationships, but there's also the sleeping in
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  Speaker 2: the dark idea, and when it comes to this particular challenge,
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  Speaker 2: you might find that there is an option to plug
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: a tiny little night light in the cabins that the
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  Speaker 2: kids are going to be sleeping in, or you might
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  Speaker 2: find that this process of slowly but surely reducing the
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  Speaker 2: amount of light in the environment at home is a
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  Speaker 2: really nice way to move things towards what's going to
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  Speaker 2: happen at the camp. The other option is just that
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  Speaker 2: he goes on the camp and this is what happens,
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  Speaker 2: and surprisingly a lot of kids adapt to this sort
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  Speaker 2: of thing really really well. Again, I don't think this
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  Speaker 2: is the sort of thing that we need to make
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  Speaker 2: a big deal about. More preparation, more focus can actually
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  Speaker 2: exacerbate it, blow it up, magnify it, rather than just
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  Speaker 2: making it something that people do. You're looking at me funny,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: like you don't like my perspective on this.
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  Speaker 4: I just still stand by the fact that ten's really young, and.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah it is. It is, especially in the world
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  Speaker 3: that we live in today.
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  Speaker 4: There's going to be plenty of years where school camp
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  Speaker 4: is going to play a significant part in kids' lives.
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  Speaker 4: And if at ten I didn't feel like my kid
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  Speaker 4: was ready, I just I actually wouldn't send them. And
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  Speaker 4: I know you're saying that avoidance creates more, but I
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  Speaker 4: actually think that with another year or two, their sense
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  Speaker 4: of competence and their connections with their friends increases and
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  Speaker 4: the anxiety diminishes as a result.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm going to agree with you and disagree with you.
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  Speaker 2: In cases where the challenge is significant, then you're absolutely right.
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  Speaker 2: But what happens next year is we've reinforced how good
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  Speaker 2: it felt to stay home and not have to go.
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  Speaker 4: But I don't think it does. I actually think in
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: most cases, children who miss out on those opportunities feel
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: like they've missed out because the kids all come back
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  Speaker 4: and they talk about the experiences and that child that
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: didn't go, they're not actually part of it. And I
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  Speaker 4: think that often the I'm going to use the word
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  Speaker 4: consequence of not attending is that you recognize that you
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: actually missed out on something that was really good. And
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  Speaker 4: so for me, we've got this really tender young child.
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  Speaker 4: Whether it's a boy or girl, it doesn't matter. And
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  Speaker 4: I just feel like having been in situations as a
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: young child myself where I wasn't ready for them and
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  Speaker 4: I didn't feel like I had connections the experiences I
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: had were actually more traumatic because I was picked on,
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: I was bullied, teachers didn't see things, I didn't say anything,
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  Speaker 4: And for a little kid in this situation, there is
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: the real challenge of dealing with that. So they've already
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: gone into it anxious that things aren't going to work
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  Speaker 4: out well, and then they're ostracized because they're the little
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  Speaker 4: kids sitting in the cabin with a torch on, or
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: you know, they hide out because they too scared, or
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: in some cases they're the kid crying in the corner.
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  Speaker 2: And so this perspective that you're sharing is precisely why
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  Speaker 2: this mum is saying I'm really stuck. In fact, there
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: was a PostScript to her email that I didn't read,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: where she basically said, I'm really conflicted. My husband thinks
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: I'm being too soft on him, and so I'm not.
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  Speaker 3: Quite sure of the right way to go.
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  Speaker 2: And this is the challenge, isn't it, Because in one way,
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  Speaker 2: staying away can reinforce the anxiety, it can reinforce this
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  Speaker 2: sense that I need to be coddled, and it can
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: reinforce the child. All I have to do is cry
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: and say I don't want to and my parents will
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  Speaker 2: relieve me of all the fear. And there's also the
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: chance that the child will just develop through it and
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: grow up and have the fear of missing out and
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: really wish that they could go next year. So it
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: is really complicated. The reality is, I think it really
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: depends on the individual circumstances.
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: I do too. I do too, and that's why I
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: can't stand behind the blanket rule. We've just got to
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: push through it because each child is going to be different.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: In some cases, you're exactly right, sending them off is
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: going to be the best thing you could possibly do,
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: and they are going to come back and feel like
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: they've conquered Mount Everest. But the odd case they're not.
• 14:16
  Speaker 4: And so being a tune enough to recognize whether or
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: not this is a necessary step in helping your child
• 14:24
  Speaker 4: build that sense of confidence, whether this is actually going
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: to be detrimental, that's the challenge, and that's where she's
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: out right.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: I keep on going back to Huckleberry Finn. So you've
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: got these young kids who are exploring the world. They're
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: going up and down the river, they've got their own
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: little island, They're doing all these crazy things, making rafts,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: and I think about what childhood was in the nineteen seventies,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighties, nineteen sixties, those kinds of romanticized notions of
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: children with freedom, playing outside and having all of that experience.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: But the world today is not that, and while some
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: children respond really well to it, this idea that ten
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: year olds should be out and about lie leaving home
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: and leaving the safety net that we I mean, homes
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: and families are different today than they were twenty thirty,
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: forty years ago. And I'm really sympathetic to your view
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: that the expectation that a ten year old would leave
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: home and go away for a few nights and have
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: this encounter. I get that it's challenging.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: So in most cases those younger camps, they are only
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: going away for a night. And if that's the case,
• 15:25
  Speaker 4: then you know, maybe it is a possibility to kind
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: of push it.
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  Speaker 2: So the duration matters as well, in the distance from
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: home and all those kinds of things. I mean, you
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: could even, depending on how close it is to home,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: and depending on how far you want to take this,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: you could even show up at the camp and have
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: looked around so that the child feels familiar. But ultimately this
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: comes down to relationships. It comes down to trust and
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: a feeling of safety. And I think that those ideas
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: that we shared at the start of the podcast are
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: absolutely critically important.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: I actually just remembered we had a child who was
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: struggling and didn't know if they wanted to go to camp.
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: We spoke with the teacher and just asked whether or
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: not she could make a phone call at nighttime to
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: say good night to us. And that was the difference
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: between our child feeling like they were able to leave
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: with the confidence that they would at least be able
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: to say good night to us.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I can imagine some teachers would have said, oh,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: come on, forget it. This fairyss cotton walling sort of
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: stuff is ridiculous, But that was what it took to
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: get our child over the line, and she went and
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: she had a perfectly good time.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: I guess the other thing to emphasize, I feel like
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: I'm turning the corner here, I'm coming full circle. But
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: you can grow up to be a completely capable, competent,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: and fully functioning adult without without having been on school camp.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: So it's not the end of the world. I hope,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: I hope that the ideas that we've shared in this
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: episode have been useful for our anonymous listener. I love
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: our listeners' emails. I love the questions that we get
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: to grapple with and the messiness and now untired in
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: this and the fact that there isn't always a clear solution,
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: there's not always a way forward. But when we stay
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: focused on the goal of meeting our kids' psychological needs,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: we tend to do a better job. The Happy Families
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media. Craig
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Bruce is our executive producer. For more about making your
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: family happy, please visit us at happy families dot com,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: dot a U and grab a copy of The Parenting
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Revolution