Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Why the Protect College Sports Act WON'T WORK + Jason England on The Wire, Season 4, 20 Years Later | 09.29

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Why the Protect College Sports Act WON'T WORK + Jason England on The Wire, Season 4, 20 Years Later | 09.29 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Right Time, presented by PrizePix.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: My name is Beaumont E. Jones.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: watching us on YouTube. Subscribe, like, rate us, review us.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Give us five stars. You only give us four stars.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I'm inclined to believe you are a hater. It is
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Time Machine Tuesday, but before we get to Jason Englund,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: talking about season four of The Wire, the.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Wasn't it right? Protect College Sports Act.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Protect College Sports.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I knew it. I can't remember if it was preserve, protect.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I knew it was some dramatic ass shit. You know
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: what I mean?
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: The world's collapsing. It's a very law enforcement-esque word. It is.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Scare quote. That's what it is.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: It's in italics.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Like the whole thing. Now look.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I am firmly a believer that they need to figure
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: something out because I do think that there's a measure
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: of chaos as to what's going on now. And the
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: people who are like, college sports is healthier than ever.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Look at the ratings. I just don't think that we
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: have to, we can't make ourselves the capitalists in such
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: a way where we say the only thing that matters
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: is whether or not people watch.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: It on television, right?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Like I think there's a lot more going on there
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: and clearly.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: There were things that needed to be figured out.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I just don't think they need to be figured out
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: the way that they're trying to do this right here,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: which is, of course, hating. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Just trying to get into players' pockets. That's the thing.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the part that gets me.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Now, I will say, this bill has changed many times
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: because so many different people got to get what they
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: want in order to make this happen. That's how bills
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: in Congress get so bloated. You need this vote, you
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: need that vote. Everybody need a little of this. Everybody
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: need a little of that. It's what makes people frustrated
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: about American government and also why this thing works.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I understand that there's a bit of irony in that statement,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: but here we go. These are the things that I
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: want to bring up right now because I'm not the
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: person to explain this to you. If you want the
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: whole bill, you're going to kind of need to look
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: it up, especially now because it's a little bit unwieldy.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: But one thing that as it started, there was going
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: to be a $ 20 million cap on player spending across
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: all sports per school.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: That number came out of that house settlement.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't like it was some scientifically derived number.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: It was just a number basically somebody pulled out of
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: the air. Well, now that's up to 50 million dollars
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: with I think it says it's a guaranteed five or
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: six million dollars for non five million dollars.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: Right. Here we go.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Forty nine million dollars with five million reserve for non
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: revenue and Olympic sports.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: And we'll see exactly how that goes.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Right. Because I did a show where I said that
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Penn State was the only school that had data available
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: and they spent six percent of their budget on female sports.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: And I was incorrect. It was point six percent.
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just, I took a handwritten note and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: took it down wrong. They were telling me it was 0.6.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Of course. How could it possibly be 0.6? Right.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: As I was hearing you.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: I knew the decimal point had to be somewhere. Why
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: would it be before?
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't hear the point. I thought he was saying
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: the point was right.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: There's no way in the world that you were going
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: to tell me that it was six, but.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: One thing I find interesting about this, and to me
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: is the part that just gives the game away.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Look, there's stuff.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: About when schools can leave conferences. There's also a provision
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: here that says that a coach can't leave his current
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: job for another job until the season is over for
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: his current job.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: And that sounds.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Really noble, but it's kind of out of line with
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: how everything, there's a lot more changes that need to
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: be made. in order for that setup to work. To me,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: the biggest thing they need to get rid of is
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: the early signing period. And I just don't think, I
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: don't think that is, the argument was that was going
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: basically make it so the players could get these dudes
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: to stop calling them. And I understand that, but it
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: also leads to coaches getting fired in week three and four.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: You know, like there's- And coaches leaving in- Correct. There's
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: so many things that just make that part unwieldy.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: But there's a part that I find to be interesting,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: which is in the end, like I said, people tried
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: to throw different things on the bill, and a lot
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: of those things were voted on individually. And one thing,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I think it's... Cory Booker's the guy I see talking
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: about this. I don't remember if he's the guy who
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: proposed this. But in the ESPN write-up about this, it says...
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: The Senate considered seven amendments to the bill before its
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: final vote Monday night. Most notably, the lawmakers voted 52-47
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: against the provision.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Is Mitch McConnell voting?
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Is he part of.
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: I would say he is participating.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, is he part of the 99 or is he
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: the one?
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: I'm going to have to.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, I was just.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: Because, unfortunately, he is not the only one in that situation.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, did... Well... Lindsey Graham, they gave his seat
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: to somebody, right?
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, anyway.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: I think it's his wife.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, I just couldn't remember it already. No, no, no, no.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: It was definitely... No, not his wife.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: That is obviously my mistake.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I feel like we just had a very highbrow Cam
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: and Mace moment.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: All we can do is die laughing.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: Google it. You didn't even have to.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Say that, brother. This show, they know.
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: I hope they know. If you don't know, you can
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: Google it.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: This show, they know.
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: But anyway.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: The 5247 against a provision that would have capped how
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: much money coaches can earn from their schools.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: At $ 5.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Million per year and restricted how often they can change jobs.
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  Speaker 2: That got voted down.
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  Speaker 3: Okay. Okay.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Talk about giving the game away.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: And I'm not even saying this as though there's a real,
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: like the game isn't largely given away, but talk about
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: giving the game away. Here's why I say that this
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: is talking about giving the game away.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: If this is really about competitive balance, remember all these
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: years where they said that the players didn't have any
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: actual value. Like that's the thing about this. Once that
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: bullshit got turned over, they just hopped off that shit.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Like they never even said it.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: But that was the argument. The players don't have any
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: really any real value.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: But obviously these coaches had value because their numbers just
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: kept increasing and increasing and increasing. And the bigger issue
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: they have right now is not runaway player spending. It's
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: runaway coach spending because the player spending is a year
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: to year proposition.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: The coach spending, they're basically.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: Like, it's like a bond, more or less. Is this
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: the right way for me to look at this? Like,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: they got to pay out every year on this. And
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: then if they want to bail out, they can't. We
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: just talked about this with Lincoln Riley yesterday, where they
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: owe Lincoln Riley something like $ 70 million, right? Here you go.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Here's how you maybe save the day.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Put a cap annually on how much these dudes can get.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: And by the way, $ 5 million is a.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Lot of fucking money.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: A lot of money.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Especially for where they're going to be living. It's not
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: $ 100 million if they live in Soho. It's $ 11 million
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: if you live in Starkville. Sorry, you live in Starkville.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: But anyway, they can put a cap there, but they're
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: not doing that. You tell me you're worried about running
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: away spending. But you're not doing that, right? I would
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: go even farther. Make it not simply about putting a
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: cap on the coaches. If what you're trying to achieve
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: is competitive balance, why is there not a cap on
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: all spending? Why aren't you telling everybody this is how
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: much you got to run an athletic program?
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Make it happen.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Because the SEC and Big Ten, bless their hearts, they
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: increased the spending cap on athletes. And I think part
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: of that was a very simple understanding, which is you
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: can increase the cap or we're going to.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Spend it anyway.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: One way or another, right? And, of course, they got
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: more money. But that's what that appears to be. But
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: if what you're really talking about is some measure of
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: competitive balance, cap it all, cap it all. That'll save you, right?
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: You know, back in the day, it was runaway facility spending.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: And that's the thing a lot of, I don't think
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: people understand about a lot of these programs is the
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: long-term debt that they are carrying from both facility spend, well,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: they're the same thing, but facility spending and stadium additions. Yes.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Like that's a lot of money that these teams are
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: carrying on their balance sheet or these programs are carrying
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: on their balance sheet. But if you was really about
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: this game, do that. Like Cory Booker, You know, who
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not in the business of agreeing with. But he says,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: if the bill supporters believe these rules are necessary for athletes,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: they should be willing to apply them to coaches as well.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: This bill sells out college athletes.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Now, he is a former college athlete, so I think
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: he gets it in a slightly different way, but that's
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: real penitentiary steel, man. Like, all of this applies to
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: every other dime that gets spent. The only ones you
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: don't want to spend.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: are.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: The ones that go to the players. That's it. You're
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: not really trying to save anything. Okay? Because look, on
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the coach spending and the buyout thing, I want to
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: be clear.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: It's kind of crazy, but it's only crazy because we're crazy.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Right. And this is what I mean by that. The
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: buyouts exist. They're guarantees, right? They exist to say, hey,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: I get this job for X period of time. Guaranteed
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: contracts are very common in sports, right? They're common for players,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: they're common for coaches, everything. They're just guaranteed. The thing
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: about college sports is because it is based on recruiting,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: if things are going bad, you try to turn it
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: around immediately because things going bad lead to things going
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: worse because the signal of things going bad makes it
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: harder for you to do the thing that makes things better,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: which is to get the players.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: But the other thing that makes it hard for you
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: to get the players is.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: If everybody believes that you're going to fire the coach.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: The buyout, in theory, should save you from that part.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: But once schools demonstrate it, they're willing to pay people
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: $ 50 million to get them to leave. Well, oh shit,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: now this thing is completely out of control. What you
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: need to figure out is something that encourages a system
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: where a coach is going three and eight this year.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: You just take it as three and eight. And you
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: ride out the deal that you have.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: You're giving him time to fix it and you allow
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: him to fix that.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Right, but you can't let a contract get to the
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: end because if a contract gets to the end, that
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: is the signal to the recruits that you are not
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: coming to a stable environment and therefore.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Dot, dot, dot.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Now, to me, this has changed for one very significant reason.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: You're not recruiting these kids with promises anymore.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: You're recruiting them with money.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: The magic of the coach and the reason you pay
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: him all that money is.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: The idea that he could get the kids.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Now, no, the money is what get the kids. So
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: if the money is what gets the kids, what are
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: you paying the coach for? At least not to the
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: level at which we are discussing. What are you, what's
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: the point of that? You no longer have to build
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: a fancy gym. You no longer have to add to
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the stadium and all these other things because you couldn't
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: just go ahead and pay the players. Now you can
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: go ahead and pay the players. So you could be
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: saved from this runaway spending on all this other stuff
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: that you're going to do simply because you used to
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: do it. I don't know if the market correction is
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: ever going to come into place because the idea of
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: the coach is the face of a program. The lag
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: for people figuring that out is going to take a
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: really long time because people kind of like it that way, right?
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: But you could be saved right now from all of that.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: And you won't do it because deep down, the whole
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: professional class looks at those coaches as on their team
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and the players as the other team. And since the
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: players are the other team, all you try to do
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: is keep them under control. If you watch what happened
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: with Ole Miss and LSU last year, who seemed more
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: out of control?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: The players or that team?
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Apparently, but not guaranteed to be loathsome jerk.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, seriously, seriously, think about this for a second.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: You try to tell Trinidad Chambliss, nah, nah, nah, you
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: can only have so much money, but give the world
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: to Lane Kiffin.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: How does that make you feel about yourself? All right,
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: we are back.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It is Time Machine Tuesday, 2006, September 15th. It is
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the 20th anniversary of the premiere of season four of
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: The Wire, which, for my money, is the greatest season
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: of television that anybody has ever made. Guy joining me,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the man of many talents. Check out his work in
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: many places, including Defector, The Chronicle of Higher Education, a
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: few other places, Jason England.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: What's going on, man?
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: It's not my fault that when I was a baby,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: I was dropped in a box of glitter, and I've
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: been shining ever since then. Shout out to Sugar Free.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Gotta say, only sugar-free could make a reference to being
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: dropped in a box of glitter. Not something that made
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: me worry about us being canceled for an entirely different connotation,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: because I didn't know where the fuck he was going
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: with that one.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I was like, huh, glitter, eh? Ain't that something?
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: But we are here.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: I want to start with this part about season four
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: from the wire. And I told you this and it
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: blew your mind. And I don't think I'm alone in this,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: but I didn't have no money from like 97, really
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: hardcore from like Oh one through Oh five. Didn't have
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: any money at all, which meant there wasn't no HBO,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: which is to say, for example, I just watched the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Sopranos for the first time about nine months ago. And yeah,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Season four of The Wire was the first season of
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: The Wire that I had watched. And I didn't even
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: have any real context for the fact that I missed anything.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Because when you know the history, you can look back
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: at the end of season three and realize they wrote
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: that as though the show was not going to come back.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: and they basically did a reboot of the show with
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: some of the characters that came before, but they started
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: with these kids. So I didn't feel like I was
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: missing out on anything. And even going back and getting
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: the previous context, I never felt like I missed out
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: on that much, which is really fucking ambitious to make
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: a TV show that start literally starts over in the middle.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Starts over, uh, kicks the most popular white
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: lead to the side and makes the leads, um, four
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: kids with minimal acting training. And in fact, I do
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: believe Robert Chu, Prop Joe, was their acting coach. I
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: had a very different experience with season four, a hilarious one.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: My close friend, John, used to work at HBO at
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: that time. He got me the season, the whole season.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: And his one thing was, you just can't give it
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: to anybody, though.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I've got one of those before.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: So I watched it with my girl. And then I
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: watched it with my homie, Justin. I was always watching
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: it with the person. So I was always with the thing.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? And so I saw that
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: season about 10 times because I kept having to sit
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: with different people and watch the episode so they could
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: see it. And then finally, years later, I'm kicking it
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: with this dude, Shaka, who's Justin Tomey. And I'm telling
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: him the same story. And he's like, oh, I remember
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: watching it that way, too, which is when I realized
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: Justin had.
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: Taken the season and given it to Shaka behind my back.
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, I watched it all in one shot. And
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: I was for my money. It's the best season of
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: television ever recorded for my money.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: This dude, Shaka, is a great way of putting that.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: I got a hold of the series finale like that.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: can't remember who mailed it to me but I had
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: a bit of a watch party and it was like
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: a disparate white watch party because my friends who watched
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: The Wire were like a range of people so it
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: was my super white homie from graduate school super black
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: homie but he was also a graduate school buddy from
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: a completely different school like it was a hodgepodge of
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: people in the room and it was just because there
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: was no way I was going to get anybody caught up.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Somebody physically, like the wire was so cold at that
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: time that the people who would get a hold of
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: this wanted to share it with somebody so bad that
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: we were willing to physically mail it or physically sit
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: with you, whoever you happen to be, for the rest
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: of it in order to watch it, right?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Like that's how the coldness was.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: But in watching it, People talk about season four in
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: the context of like the schools and we got time
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: to get into like kind of the analysis of it.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: But I do feel like people talk about the wire,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: like homework a little bit too much and miss that.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: The reason that this works so well as a television
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: show is that it's also just an excellent television show.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Um, and.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: My thing about season four of The Wire is they
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: get these kids in seventh grade and they are making
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: this very interesting larger point, which is seventh grade is
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: kind of an inflection point of life that it can
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: all turn really quickly. Like the Bunny Colvin character, when
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: he's dealing with the professor who wants to go into
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: high schools and talk to kids and he had to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: explain to him, no, man, that's way too late.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: The course has been charted in time.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: This point right here but what i always found so
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: interesting and what made the season so good is they
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: wrote those teenage boys exactly for better or worse like
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: teenage boys.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Are yeah um Man, it makes me emotional because it's
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: the first time that I felt seen on screen. And
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of people who say they felt
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: seen in the wire, sometimes I'm like, you are not Avon, brother.
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: But those children, I remember what it was to be
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: impoverished and to be in the public school system and
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: to have a teacher take an interest in you and
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: that was your salvation. I mean, you had to catch
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: a break. in order to make it. And my break
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: was that a teacher sent me off to a private
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: school in Connecticut. He saw my promise and convinced my
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: mother to let me go. And that since it changed
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: my life, I look at my cousin and a couple
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: of my peers who are no longer with us. And
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: I do think it's because, and that was right around seventh,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: eighth grade. I do think it's our paths diverged right
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: there and the influences we had and the people we
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: were hanging around were totally different. So when I watch
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: this and I see how like innocent these people are,
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: but also how quickly they have to become grown men
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: and the responsibilities they have to shoulder and how with
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: some of them, their decency is their undoing because when
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: you want to be decent in a certain kind of environment,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: you have to sometimes turn to indecent means. And that's
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: what I found heartbreaking about this season for sure.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Like I look back on when I was in seventh
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: grade and I think me in seventh grade is weird
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: is that I'm, basically two years younger than the people
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: in my grade.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: So I am, there's a, I'm a little lost. I
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: am awash in what is going on here.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: And I, but I can look back and, you know,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: we talked about this when we did our, me and
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Dominique talked about Nicole Hannah Jones is that I, I
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: was not of the same class background as the vast
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: majority of the people that I went to school with. Um,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: but I realized like later, especially once you get into
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: high school, like, oh man, there's a lot of like
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: self-supporting going on here, but it was in the country.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: So you don't have like the same kind of urban
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: enticements on like, there's no, there, your ways to make
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: money really kind of have to be honest. Right. Because,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you know, what else are you going to do in
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: this little town in order.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: To get it? But I look back and I realize that.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: With so many kids, like ones that would be kind
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: of close to the classes you were in. And then
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: suddenly they not because they're around that something happens in
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: life around that seventh grade turn.
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Separate from the class dynamic of it. For me, at
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: least what I found interesting was season one, I think
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: touches on this a little bit because I think like
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: the story of Bodie, which obviously becomes a big thing
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: in season four. Bodhi in season one is another, such
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: a well-written adolescent character who is obsessed with the idea
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: that he is a man, right? And that, you know,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: he is, he is this tough guy. He is grown.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: He doesn't need this. He doesn't need that. Now, Bodhi
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: is a little older at that point. He's like 16
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: as it's written, but it's kind of the same idea.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Young boys like this idea, or at least of that generation.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: I can't really speak to what it is right now,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: but if that generation like to speak, it exists in
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: this level of independence. And of course we're, of course
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: with Bodie with the life he lived it'd be something
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: completely different but you know he's a man and when
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: it comes time to deal with Wallace and he pulls
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: that gun on him and he's telling Wallace be a
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: man stand up he's doing all this while he can't
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: hold his hand straight because deep down inside he's just
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: 16 years old right that Naaman character which I always
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: feel bad man because I shouldn't have such negative opinions
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: of a child especially a fictional one um but he's
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: so obviously like, and I've seen this many times, the
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: kid who's got more money than the rest of them,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: but feels the need to try to seem like he's hard,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: especially because his daddy is Weebay. But the way that
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: all those different kids tried to elevate themselves in different
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: ways to like project themselves what they were because that's
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: what 12 and 13 year old boys wind up doing.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: There's always somebody faking the funk.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: There's always somebody behind that's trying to get a figure out,
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: you know, get a handle on it or whatever it is,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: all the little lies that you see cats tell and
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: everything else. Like when I think about just the scenes
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: of them walking down the hallway, right? Like the stupid
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: ways they deal with the girls that they're seeing, like, Nope,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: these are teenage boys.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: This is, this is how they are. Good God. I
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: can't believe people tolerated us.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Naaman is such a great character because... You can't
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: think of one of the boys who deserves his outcome less.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: Is he like the Pauly Walnuts of The Wire?
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: He might be the Tom Wamsgams of The Wire.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: Like, hey, he was the last man standing somehow. How
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: did this guy become CEO? He was the fuck up
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: the whole time.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Stand down, check of the streets.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: What a face. Stan Valtek, straight out of Central Casting.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, the other thing is, as you said,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: in other words, you know, I just want to reiterate it.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: It's incredible what a lack of a parent or the
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: wrong parent or the legacy of a parent can change
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: in someone who's 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, right? Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: And you see that with Naaman. He can't live up
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: to that legacy. And also, this reminds me of when
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: I took a ride up to Wesleyan University in a
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: car with a lawyer from the NAACP Legal Defense and
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: Educational Fund. And he was lamenting to me that what
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: was tough about being a parent who made it out
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: to projects in the Bronx was he gave his son
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: everything that he never had. And therefore, he wasn't sure
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: if his son had a dog in him anymore.
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: And you can see that with Naaman for sure. And
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: with Michael and every other kid who was there, they're
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: missing their parents, either literally or figuratively. And that made
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: me think a lot about not Nicole Hannah-Jones, but some
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: of what you talked about with Nicole Hannah-Jones. Sometimes there's
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: a systemic problem. And certainly when you butt up against it,
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: you realize one person's good intentions cannot conquer systemic problems.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: But a lot of times, a person who has someone
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: who believes in them, that goes a long way. Because
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: I was homeless getting AIDS because my mother was letting
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: me know that if I didn't bring home those AIDS,
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: there were consequences well beyond the system that I would face.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Now, let me tell you, there is a faith that
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: we have all had in David Simon, unlike the faith
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: that we have ever had in any white man post-John Brown.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: And it's like, if.
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: You stop and think about it for a second, we
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: let this white man say, Ain't a single good parent
• 25:43
  Speaker 5: to be found on this entire side of town.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: There's the foster mama, right?
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: But then she wound up catching on fire. No good
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: deed goes unpunished, right?
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: That would be brutal.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: It's a literal fair question. If he would have been
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: better off having no mama at all.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to think.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: They want good black biological parent.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: That this whole show provided.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And we kind of looking at it like, damn, well,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: you know, the streets are kind of rough out there.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, who? Well, Brianna. Brianna talked to her son.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: She's the closest.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: She talked to her son right into his own death.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Into doing a dub. She talked him into doing a dub.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: You are correct. Hey, D'Angelo's a baby mom, too. She
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: was sitting there. They're doing string on the couch. You're right.
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: You're right. You know what it reminds me of? You know,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: I talked to my friends in earnest about this. I
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: grew up without my father. And that's a whole nother
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: story that will come out soon. But I never felt
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: that I was missing my father because I looked around
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: and all of my friends who had dads, brother, you
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: didn't want that man in your life. And knowing how
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: my mom was, I was like, you know what? If
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: this dad existed, my mom might kill him the way
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: I'm seeing him. So yeah, no, you're right. It's a
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: bleak outlook. And I think some might say a very
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: realistic outlook. and some might say a narrow outlook, and
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: it's probably somewhere in between there, and I understand taking
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: poetic license, dramatic license, in order to make your points.
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: But you are correct. I got to rethink that, because
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: David Simon showed his ass a little on the internet
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: in the aftermath of The Wire, and I started feeling
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: weird about him. Yeah.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I would say, when David Simon got to tweaking out
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: dialogue using the N-word, and he doesn't censor it, and
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not quite an absolutist on it, right? Like, I'm like,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I think some people need to sit in the discomfort
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: of it, but it's not like he didn't do it
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: for many amazing seasons, where it was like, he's like,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I don't understand what the problem is.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: You love me for doing this.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: He is the man that wrote the line, you need
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: a day of the jackal type motherfucker, basically, not no
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: rumble tumble nigga like Slim.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And he's like, you love that.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: He's just Well, you know what he did for the
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: most part, with a few exceptions. There are some notable exceptions.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: But getting the actors he did. Wood Harris, I think,
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: is the most, I really believe this, most underrated actor
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: of my lifetime. I think Wood Harris is incredible as Avon.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: And then having so many people where he was like,
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: you know what, I'm going to write these lines. I'm
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: going to trust you not to be an actor, but
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: a regular person who is in the role of an
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: actor right now. Yeah. And I think that's how those
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: roles came up because those people could inhabit those lines.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: Like a Snoop can inhabit those lines and flip them easily.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: That's like no sweat. She looked at that, wasn't nervous
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: at all. Yeah, this is how I talk.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: And keep it in mind, they don't allow ad libbing. Like,
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: they are very, very, very particular about it. Like, no,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: these are the words, say the words. Like, I give
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: him and Burns credit. They paid enough actual attention to
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Black people to understand how Black people talk. Everywhere on
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: the class level, by the way, right? Like, it's not
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: just they got how you're more working class, you're more
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: middle class. They got how everybody talked and then, again,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: applied it and got it here with those kids in
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the school. Now, I will say this about that school situation.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I ain't never been to no school like that. That
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: scene where little mama wind up cutting that girl up
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: in the back.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: And I was like, wow.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: And this is, while terrifying, Deprez appears to be another
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: day at the office for the rest of these kids.
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: I was like, yikes. Yeah. Yeah. I did go to
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: school like that. And my mother happened to show up
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: at the school during recess. And she saw me fighting
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: one on five. All right. And fighting for my life.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: And she knew me as a bookworm. And the very
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: next day, my mother had me out that school. She
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: took me from PS51 down to PS3 in the West Village.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: She fought the Board of Education. And suddenly I was
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: in class with people like CeeDee Ibrahim, who became Jean Grey,
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: the rapper, and all these artist kids from the village.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: And it was like, whoa, this is a different environment entirely.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: But I mean, I've seen people beating up in staircases
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: for sure, dancing on tables in front of the teacher.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, those environments do exist. So they did exist
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: when I was young. So yeah, I did it. It
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: was a jarring season for so many reasons. And the
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: idea of incompetence and bureaucracy connecting so many different strata
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: of institutions is one of the things that's so brilliant
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: about The Wire.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: I did appreciate dropping Prez in there as a take
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: somebody completely not from this world and he as observer
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: of it. I do think one place The Wire shortchanged
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: us a little bit Just a little bit. They gave
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: us some small windows in it at different points, but
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: not really. Hey, man, ain't no way in the world
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: that all these white people ain't going to have no
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: conversation about black people the way black people talk about
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: white people when they get off of work. Ain't no
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: way in hell that white people ain't have some colorful
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: conversations to be had.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Them cats was doing hilarious stuff, man. We were laughing
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: at that.
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: You ain't going to tell me these white folks ain't
• 31:23
  Speaker 5: out here getting off work being like, look, man, I
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: don't know why they do this.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Like, too.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Why does he say that?
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: What is that? What is he doing? You know that
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: was happening.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, speaking of Prez, something that I really
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: appreciate about the wire, and I find that as the
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: years go on, people don't appreciate this aspect. It's that
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: they're able to humanize people to an extent that seems
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: almost impossible. And so you have this season in particular,
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: you have all these redemptive arts, right? So Bunny going
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: from legalizing drugs to, you know, working on this study
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: about schools and helping an educator. Prez you know how
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: do we allow Prez to be redeemed like the writing.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: He did so many awful things I mean he should
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: be killed right the writing and the plotting of the
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: show is so strong that you find yourself rooting for
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: him a little bit once he's helpful to some of
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: his students.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Bodhi who goes from killing his homie to bucking against
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: his version of the system because his homie is killed
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: And then when you see him execute, it's one of
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: the biggest gut punches. And when Wallace was killed in
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: season one, everybody that I knew felt it like they'd
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: never felt anything. Him and Pima being shot.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: They felt it so strongly. And here we are, like, damn,
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: I can't believe they killed my nigga. It's like, wait
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: a minute. It's the dude who killed Wallace.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: But hold on, though.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Coming up next, because I want to get to this
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: point on the other side, is that humanization and how
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: don't everybody like that, depending on who the human is.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Coming up next. Football is finally back, and PrizePix is
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: bringing out their best offer yet. New users who sign
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  Speaker 1: up will get $ 150 in lineups.
• 33:15
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• 33:18
  Speaker 1: If you win your first $ 5 lineup, you'll get $ 150
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: in lineups. And now, PrizePix is available nationwide.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: So what are you waiting for?
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Lock in for kickoff because everyone and everything is on PrizePix.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: What am I on this season? Well, you know, my
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: former narcotic has an interesting matchup this weekend. So if
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: you want to be a real hater, you could always
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• 34:33
  Speaker 2: we are back.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: With Jason England talking about The Wire Season 4.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I wasn't a participant in this, but I saw much
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: of this in online discussion about whether The Wire was
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: a copaganda. And I think for me, that's an interesting
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: discussion in part for season four, because on one hand,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: season four is a lot about how the Lester Freemans
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: and the bunks of the world really want to get
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: out here and do the good work. except they're being
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: shut down by upstairs, and then suddenly you get a
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: new mayor, and he's talking his new jazz about how
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: this is going to be a new day, and they're
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: going to be able to make it happen and really
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: do the work. But on the other hand, it's Herc
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: at his fucking dumbest, and it's that boy Walker that
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: bent back Donut's fingers until they broke. And I was like,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: what is the propaganda exactly that you.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Is there room to do a television show about the
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: police where the police are not always terrible?
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Carver, by the way, on the list of redemptive arts.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Almost forgot about that guy.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: Sure. Carver is great because he leans into competence and
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: compassion and he's worse off for it. He reminds me
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: of what my therapist told me once, which is she said,
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: you know, the best thing you can do is wake
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: up and decide to be the best version of yourself
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: every day. You know you're going to fail, but the
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: victory is in the effort. Picard for the victory is
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: in the effort, but he still fails. And Herc leans
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: totally into ineptitude, and you see the consequences of ineptitude
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: in his position, how many people it hurts and who
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: it gets killed. The Copaganda argument is a very strange
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: one to me. Because to me, it's in that black
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: and white territory that Twitter traffics in, where I think
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: in Succession, at one point, a character calls someone a
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: meretricious person. self-regarding Pop and Jay. And that's how people
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: are online. You know, like for sure, NYPD Blue and
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of procedural shows, a lot of it is
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: people like convincing people, hey, you should see your civil
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: liberties and you should see the cops as ultimately good.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: And that's a lot of bullshit. The Wire has a
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: lot of terrible cops and they're unflinching and portraying them
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: as violent and terrible and abusive and everything else.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: And stupid.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: And incredibly stupid. But what they do with the cops is,
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: And it's the same thing they do with the criminals, right?
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: They just make them, they give them dimensionality. That's not
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: a crime in and of itself. You know, I think
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: that as much as we hate to admit it, this
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: is how the human condition works. No matter who you are, criminal, cop,
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: regular person, you're a saint to some people and a
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: sinner to others. And there's a lot of gray area
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: to cover. And to call it copaganda, I think, I
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: think at that point it renders the discussion of what
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: copaganda is pretty moot, but.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: That's just me.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: A big thing about The Wire is the idea that
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: it's based on the Greek gods, but it's the idea
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: that your circumstances largely dictate your fate, which I think
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: is fairly in line with actual reality, but I don't
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: believe that that happens at the expense of people's responsibility
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: for many of their own actions and decisions, right? So
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: we see a world of, like when you get around
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: to season five on this, but like you see a
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: world that turns Dookie into the dope fiend that his
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: parents were But it don't make you have no sympathy
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: for him when he started talking that dope fiend jibber
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: jabber asking for money.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Like when those things come, Bodhi becomes interesting because you're right.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: We started with Bodhi doing this absolutely heinous thing. But
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: because I'm the kind of dude I am, you know
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: who I blame fully for that.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: That strangle.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: That's the, that's, I had never looked at Bodhi and
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Poodle the villains of that situation. This grown man who
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: came here and told you to do this fucking snake.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: That's the person that we need to be talking about.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: But I do find, especially for people who watch, I
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: didn't watch season one first, right? So like for those people,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: It's interesting talking about the arc that they have with
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Bodhi for really hating him for shooting Wallace.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: And then as it all goes, he becomes like lovable.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: And then in season four, what I find so fascinating
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: is that he's 20 or 21 years old and he's
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: an old man. Like that scene where he's talking to Putin,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: people talk about it where he ends. He's like a
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: world going one way, people go in another. Bodhi's talking
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: about how he was sitting at home watching Marlon fishing
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: on television.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: If that is not the most old.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Man behavior anybody has ever engaged in, he tells, you know,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: talking to McNulty right before, you know, I feel old.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: But to me, it was the Marlon Fishing thing that
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: really hit that was like, wow, he is literally... checked
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: off every box there was in his own concept of life.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: And he's an old man at 20 something.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, you, I, I want to, I want
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: to stick on Bodie, but you mentioned a stringer reminded
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: me of what a friend said to me recently that
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: between stringer and Freeman, some of the greatest over-the-glasses acting
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: that anyone's ever seen.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: That's a great point.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: They're looking over the glasses at every scene. They're acting
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: over their glasses. Yeah, Bodhi and McNulty as mirrors, and
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: they do this well in the show, too. They have
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: these characters who mirror each other. Them as mirrors is
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: people who are really good in their positions as pawns.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: There's some smart-ass pawns, and they know how to subvert
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: the system that they're trapped in, but at some point
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: both realize the game is totally rigged against them. And
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: there's no way that they can win. And the connection,
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: and this is where I will say there's some propaganda.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: Do I really believe that there's a police officer who
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: felt this deep connection to Bodhi and was devastated when
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: Bodhi got shot on the corner? I mean, I'll grant
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: them a little grace there because for the sake of fiction,
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: it worked very well. But maybe there's a little propaganda
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: in there. But what a great relationship that those two
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: had without ever really spending any time together. It was
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: like they spotted each other down to their souls and
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: how their struggle was very similar within their environments. And
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: so it was very moving.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I will say this.
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: If there is something that I miss from getting to
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: season four first is the idea of Jimmy McNulty didn't
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: make any sense to me. Because then all he is
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: is just a guy on the beat, right? Like, if
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: you just pick up season four, Jimmy's just low-key a
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: cop with a heart of gold.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He's saving the notebooks. Yes. He's saving the binders
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: for the little ankle biters, right? Yeah.
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: Like, he's just living with this woman.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Like, he's decent. Like, all of this stuff. I had
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: no concept at that point of the rollercoaster ride that
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: we get to with him. We also wind up, this
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: is the end of the series. You leave feeling good
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: for Bubbles, but goddamn, you in season four. Bubbles, the
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Bubbles ride in season four is Terrible.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Just flat out fucking hurt. But it is just terrible.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: I have questions about Andre Royal because I just thought
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: that was one of the greatest portrayals of a character
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: I'd ever seen when I first watched The Wire. And
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: I've barely seen him since.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you got to be careful being that good
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: at playing a fiend on a show where people know.
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: That many of the actors came off the streets.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: People just think he a fiend.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: This is like, I think it was Ed O'Neill from
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: Married With Children. I think he was supposed to be
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: in Seven or something like that. And then the audience laughed.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: The audience just kept cracking up because Al Bundy was
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: on screen. As a detective, get the fuck out of here.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: I went and saw a Soldier's Play when it was
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: on Broadway right before the pandemic. Shout out to Kenny Leon,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: one of my mama's students, was the director of it.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: And so in that run of a Soldier's Play.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: David Allen Greer played Sarge. It takes a while to
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: divorce your brain from the idea that that is david
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: allen grier because it felt like a comedic portrayal of
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: sarge but it wasn't it was just david.
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: Allen two snaps up you.
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: Know it was just david allen grier no okay this
• 43:07
  Speaker 6: is like oh this is hilarious it's like a parody
• 43:09
  Speaker 6: no but then it was like wait a minute no
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: he's actually sorry and yeah al bundy in seven nah
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: nah nah that's not gonna uh That's not going to
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: cut it.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: You try to drop bubbles off. You can't put bubbles
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: off in the new Best Man movie. It's just not happening.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: It's interesting how many characters, how many actors went on
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: to great success and also who did not. I can't
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: make heads or tails of it. Obviously, Beattie had some
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: pretty significant success. Dominic West is still in. Roles that
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: are getting him paid well. Idris conquered the world. And again,
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: I can't... You re-watch... So I taught a class on
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: The Wire at the university level. As I said, I
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: watched The Wire no fewer than a dozen times all
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: the way through. And every time I watch it, Avon,
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Wood Harris owns every scene he's in. He owns these scenes.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: And I know he's been paid enough and he has
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: royalties off his career and he's had enough roles that
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: he's doing well. But man, I needed Wood Harris to
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: find the right director.
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: And make him a star. I don't know why Idris
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: is a star. Well, I do know the ladies like Idris.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: But I watch Idris Elba's movies and I'm like, I'm
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: not seeing anything here, man. Why is he getting the money?
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you this, though. One of my favorite scenes
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: ever in a movie. is in American Gangster where Frank
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Lucas pull up on that fool in the street and
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: shoot him right in.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: The forehead and lay him out.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: That was some amazing cinema right.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: There, boy.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: That was top notch shit as far as I'm concerned.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: You understand what I'm saying? um you talk about great
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: acting in that season though like uh the the mac
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: wild i guess he's now mac wilds.
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: I forget his real name tristan wilds i think is
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: yeah he's bad.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Boy man like like that that character to me like
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: that's a top three character in the wire is michael
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: lee like in fact omar as a character has its
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: own his own particular novelty right but the the Michael
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: Lee being Michael Lee and the way they put that
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: whole thing together. Like you were talking about this off Mike,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: that like the difference between Mike saying, I don't like
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: owing people and Naaman saying, I'll take anybody's money who's
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: giving it away.
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: And Michael Lee embodying the difference between.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: Those two guys.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: And Clay Davis as well saying that same line. Yeah,
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: of course. Like integrity of purpose. with Michael and to
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: see it, to see characters so resolute in someone that age, again,
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: was resonant. But yeah, man, sadly, the integrity of purpose
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: he had in his character is what made, you know,
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: Marlo take notice that, hey, that's an effective soldier right there.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: He doesn't want a handout, he's trying to take what's his.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: He's like, the gang need more of those.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Because also, Marlo can't, like, Marlo can't appreciate the idea
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: that good people exist.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know?
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I'm in this clip that goes around the internet of
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Adam Freelander saying that the characters in The Wire didn't
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: have any depth. But it's a preposterous statement that we
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: don't need to argue right now. But if you're talking
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: about Marlo, that is correct. There is no depth to Marlo.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Marlo is just an avatar of evil, period.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: Is that Jamie Hector? That is Jamie Hector. And this
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: is why I haven't seen Jamie Hector go too far either,
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: because he was perfect as Marlo, but unfortunately... The character
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: of Marlo just needs you to look menacing and be cold.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: It doesn't take a lot of range. Well, hold on.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Did you watch We Run This City?
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: I did. I did.
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: I couldn't take it seriously when Marlo.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Was playing a police officer.
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: I totally agree.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: The problem with the show was it was a bunch
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: of wire alums, and it's like you shuffled the deck,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: and you just put them in different places. And I
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: was like, hey, man, my brain can't do it, man.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: My brain can't get these people in the places that
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: they need to be in.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm not going to belabor this
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: point or say anything about the dude who made that
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: preposterous comment with you on that show. But what I
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: will say is there was a time years ago that
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: I sat in a bar with a good friend of
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: mine and a childhood friend of his who came from
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: a lot of money and smelled like racism to me.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: And he said The Wire was fine. His favorite season
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: was season two. And his favorite character was Omar. And
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: he likes it best when people are shooting each other.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: He really said this. I was like, man, this sounds
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: like somebody wrote a bad script about a racist conversation
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: at the bar. What I think about The Wire is
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: that it gives such dimensionality. And it forces the viewer
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: to meet it on its own terms. Whereas most shows
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: come to you. They come to you at your lowest
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: common denominator. And they're like, here's this unreality. So you
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: don't have to challenge anything. Breaking Bad comes to mind, actually,
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: in that vein, which is a slapstick comedy, in my opinion,
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: and people continue to take seriously. But because certain people,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: in their mind, don't believe Black people have that dimensionality,
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: they just reject it outright. They're like, what is this
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: bullshit they're talking about? Why don't you get back to shooting?
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: It's so interesting, though, because part of why I think
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: season two doesn't land with people is I think people
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: struggle with the idea that That scene of Nick Sabaka
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: sitting on the block talking about how all the different
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: kinds of white he is and he ain't just some
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: nigga on the corner selling dope and all of this.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: The fact that he is, right? Like to me, season
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: two was a prequel to what happens to black people.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: It just takes a little bit more time to trickle
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: down to the white people and then it happens. But people,
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: if you came for a black people shoot each other show,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: you're not getting that. Season one ends with a great
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: level of shoot-em-up drama, right? Like I'd say season one
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: is the closest to being like any other TV cop
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: show ever. You can tell the network had a heavier
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: hand in like doing a few things. but it ends
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: with a lot of really interesting shoot-em-up, right? But the
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: rest of the seasons are not, like, action-packed in that way.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: But season four gives you something close to it with
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: the Omar, Marlo, Prop Joe art, with that ring that
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: travels all the way through the season.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: But Omar, Prop Joe getting Omar.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: to rob the card game in order to get Marlo
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: into their little co-op and then ultimately turning into Omar
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: pulling off one of the great capers that anybody has
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: ever pulled where they thought he was going to stick
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: up a stash and he stuck up an entire shipment.
• 50:02
  Speaker 6: Like.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: That's why I said in the beginning that while there's
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: so many deeper, more thoughtful, societal things to talk about,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: that's when it starts feeling like homework and you miss. Also,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: just as a crime show, this is a really, really,
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: really good crime show.
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, one thing I will say, though,
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: I cringe a little bit whenever a Mexican or Puerto
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: Rican comes on screen. I feel like that was a
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: blind spot. I'm like, man, do they not have Puerto
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: Ricans in Baltimore, man? Because they get characters so right.
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: And I feel like when those people come on screen,
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: I'm like, man, I'm watching a caricature.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Well, that also, by the way, leads to one of
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: the funnier things also for me in terms of racing
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: that show. is Omar's run old light-skinned booze. Like, Omar
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: stayed with a light-skinned booze. Light-skinned booze number one, light-skinned
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: booze number two, light-skinned booze number three.
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: Stayed with one.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Light-skinned booze number three did feel very much like a
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: Puerto Rican caricature.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. He's like that reporter for the Sacramento Kings. I
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: like light skins on the hot mic. Yes.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: Amen, Omar. That boy was beautiful.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: There's never a time where Omar sounds more passionate than
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: when he was talking about how beautiful Brandon was.
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. You know what, though? Again, what a triumph of
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: writing and character construction and plotting. There were brothers who
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: I knew who I ain't never met nobody so homophobic.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: And they let that shit go. They were like, yeah, yeah, Omar,
• 51:39
  Speaker 3: I'm rooting for Omar. I'm like, what, really? That's mighty
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: progressive of you.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Omar completely broke the mold, man.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: Like, that's the part.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Like, when Michael Sam came out before the draft, and
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this.
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: But they drafted Michael Sam in like the seventh round
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: or whatever, and they had the cameras at his house.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: And he was there with his boyfriend and they were
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: celebrating and they was mashing cake in each other's faces.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: It was as stereotypically gay as one could imagine. And
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: I remember I did an interview with Sid Ziegler of
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Out Sports. And we were talking about the idea of
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: an athlete coming out and all of these things. And
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: I told him, I'm like.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: Hey, man.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: That's one thing.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: What I want to see is what happens when it's
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: like some shoddy with dreads and.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: Golds, a heated one, right?
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Like some menacing Omar Little type of dude in the NFL.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: And he say he gay. Now we're cooking with gas.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: Is the side that's so excited about this right here,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: are they going to make that man their hero? at
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: that point right that is like it's when it doesn't
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: fit what you think it is is when it gets
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: to be compelling and that's what i think hit people
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: with omar is that they just had never considered that
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: there was a gay dude out here pulling guns.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: On people and yeah there are quite a few actually.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah i think yeah when it reaffirms your expectations
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: that person becomes a mascot more than a person that
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: challenges you right um so yeah absolutely we haven't even
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: talked about uh.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: We haven't even talked about politics we haven't we haven't
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: talked about politics um herk again like the the progression
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: first of all the amazing clay davis scene where he
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: just goes on that rant about receiving that subpoena and
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: then dealing with that herk walking in on the mayor
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: uh having one-on-one with the secretary. And I want to
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: know who the freak is that work on that show
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: who made sure they ordered a prosthesis that could be
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: picked up on camera. And I want to know how
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: much that lady got paid for playing that role. Cause like,
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: at least don't make her face the camera, you know?
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: And so that gets Herc out of there and the
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: mayor winds up.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Losing to the white boy.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: And see, they were working on redeeming Karketty in that
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: season until he blew it in the next one, right?
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: He stopped cheating on his wife. You know what I'm saying?
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: He was the, what's the dude's name? O'Malley is who
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: he's supposed to be.
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Karketty is a great character
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: for me in that no matter how much hope you
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: place in a politician, and I'm not going to name
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: any names because I can tick many off who suck
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: at us, in the end, their ego and ambition will
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: sink their dedication to the people. And so, you know,
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: his narcissism, to be a politician almost always, you have
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: to be such a first-rate narcissist. You know, there's just
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: no redeeming you. But someone who blew me away in
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: that show in terms of the very rare character Where
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: I wanted her off screen at all times was the
• 55:04
  Speaker 3: woman advising his campaign.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: I didn't buy anything about her. Why is McNulty going
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: for this woman who looks like an amphibian creature who
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: is obnoxious to boot? What is going on here? Everybody
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: wants to sleep with this woman? I didn't buy it. Hey, man.
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: She ain't gay. That was the thing with her. She
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: knew how to approach them cats.
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: Which was what? Just naked? Is that what her game was?
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: Apparently she knew these catchy ways that you and I
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: cannot grasp or relate to. You know what I mean?
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: That's what it seems to be. Do we miss anybody? Oh,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: specific scenes. We talked about the kids. But that scene
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: where Michael had to beat up evil little Canard. I
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: ain't never been so happy to see an eight-year-old get
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: beat up.
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: The moment that Naaman realized, I am not.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Capable of doing what is necessary to play this game,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: which then led to him receiving an all-time slapping.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Like, just slapped him to sleep, dropped him on the ground.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Like, the way he started crying and everything, I was like, oh, no,
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: you fully nailed this.
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: Like, it.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: Michael Lee saved Naaman Bryce's life that night.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Because even if Bunny hadn't taken him in, there was
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: no more corner life for Naaman Bryce after that. None whatsoever.
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: You know, one of the most off-putting things ever was
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: when this season was taking place, I heard... an interview
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: with the kid who played Canard. And he had the
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: sweetest voice, and he was telling them, It's hard for
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: me because I never curse at home.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: I said, this is you.
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: He was one of the most convincing cursing-ass kids that
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: anyone ever saw. Dookie hit like a bitch, yo.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: This kid's really from the street. No, no, no. He
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: was a sweetheart.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: I hated him.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: I loathed him. The Omar thing kind of whatever, and
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: that made me feel bad for him. He looked a
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: little spooked when he actually did it. But otherwise, he
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: was the baddest kid on earth.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: The single, and it would still be moments, like when
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: you realized that Naaman was paying him $ 5. Did you realize, oh, okay,
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: he's five years old, I mean, eight years old, but
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: he also realized that $ 5.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: Was too little because he stole the package from him.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: Well, the wisdom of babes right there. I mean, that dude,
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: he looked at Naaman and he said, I can assess
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: this dude very simply. Yeah. That's a motherfucker I'm going
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: to steal from. Period. He ain't doing shit.
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: Everybody red-naming is somebody to run off the block.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Even though he's Weebay's son.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: That's the thing, too. The kids ain't know nothing about
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: no Weebay. Weebay been in jail for three years and
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: it's like he never existed.
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: We ain't talking about your boy Cutty either.
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: Cutty from the cut. Yeah. Cutty has one of the
• 58:05
  Speaker 3: most startling moments in the entire show. When he slaps
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: that woman, whoa, now we gonna talk? Yeah.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Whoa, that was a.
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: I stood up.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: The way she looked back at him, like, you are
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: 45 years old.
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. You know what else is wild is that Avon,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: in so many ways, is like an institutional purist. I
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: think about that first season, when he kicks Orlando in
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: his ass and says, do your job, right? And then
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: I think about this third season where he sees those
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: two morons who are rolling around with Cuddy.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: No discipline.
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, where the fuck is the discipline? This is always
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: his thing. Springer, you are ambitious, but you're missing the
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: fact that we can't have bad workers. Right. They can't work.
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: They're not doing a job. Yeah. So yeah, no, Cuddy's
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: journey is very good. And that whole, it ain't in
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: me no more scene is one of the greatest. scenes
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: in the show. And then his redemptive arc is excellent
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: if a little ham fisted at parts. When he had
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: the lover in the end who was the doctor who
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: was totally against it, whatever, the nurse. Yeah, like I
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: was happy for him. I'm not sure. They totally earned
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: that moment, but I'll give it to them.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: But Avon is also like, I would love to see
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: if someone could get Avon's character in a chair and
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: talk to him about Maslow's hierarchy of wants. Because self-actualization...
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: is a big Avon thing. Like you think about when
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Cuddy walked out and he said, you know, and he's
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: still a man, right?
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: When he left, his thing was, and he's still a man.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: Like Avon was a man of principle in a way
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: that Suggie he rolled with was not in a way
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: that very few other characters that we saw.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, clearly prop Joe to a degree.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: He was a scammer, but there were like legitimate principles.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: That he was not going to violate and that he respected. Like,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: the idea that Cuddy looked at him and was like, hey, man,
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: I got to step out of here. He fundamentally respected it.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Also, Cuddy, when he goes to him for the
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: money for the gym and they just laugh at him,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: I thought you was going to ask for something big. Yeah,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: just give him the money. That's a beautiful moment, too.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: You know, but Cuddy, again, he's one of those great
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: characters in terms of how they show you the gray
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: area of a person. I mean, he did not go
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: to prison for being a good person. When it's not
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: in him anymore, you feel deep empathy and connection. When
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: he wants to mentor these children and he follows through
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 3: with it, you again feel deep empathy and connection. But
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: then he starts fucking their moms. That is a crazy
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: thing to do.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, he's like, what can I say? who am
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: I to say no, right? He out here trying to
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: do community service. And y'all telling this man to draw
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: the line here, right? Like he ain't quite understanding that
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: they also use him, the latent homophobia around like Mike
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: being afraid that he's gay. And then the part where
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: he's like, we bet, yeah, that's my cup buddy. Then
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: he starts smiling. He's like, anyway, straighten back up. He
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: realized he was on the outside again. But you're right,
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: he was gay. He had them all and they was,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: they was putting it on the table. He's like, I
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: do throw down in the kitchen amongst other places.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: Yes. Spider's mom.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Like, come on, partner.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: You had to know that that was like, if you
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to do that with the bum kids, moms, maybe,
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: but you couldn't do that with star. Now, granted, I've
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: been around college football and basketball recruiting.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: No, actually dudes don't think that that is an impediment
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: to success.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I'm so tempted to tell a story that
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: I cannot tell about my cousin and a pro, a
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: former pro football player. He used to mentor and the
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: moms was coming to the door and lingerie when he
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: would pick him up to take him to baseball practice.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: This is a football star who was a two way player.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: And eventually the mom just came out and let him
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: know you can come back and have it not be
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: about my son.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you think Cuddy gonna say no.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Right? All these other cats out here.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Cuddy tried to talk to the kids about it. And
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: that was another place of talking to teenage boys.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: Cuddy tried to lecture them boys about how he was
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: running up on they moms. And they thought it was
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: the funniest thing in the world.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: Where do you stand on the sex scenes between Daniels
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: and Perlman.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't need it, man. And the thing about it
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: for me is that it was clearly them trying to
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: be provocative because they didn't make us watch her do
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: that with Jimmy. We watched Jimmy do that with girls
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: in parking garages, the girl that was a waitress.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: In the diner, all of that, dang, dang. They implied
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: it with her.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: They ain't do that. They was trying to get that shot.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: That shit looked like the cover of Jungle Fever with
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: the hands.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: They was trying to get that contrast.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: And I just, I didn't, I didn't need that.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 3: You know, one thing I love about The Wire is
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: that the casting is wonderful. And what it makes you
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: remember is that everybody is out here having sex. And
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: beauty often comes from character, right? Yeah. There are very
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 3: few people who are just sort of whatever the Eurocentric
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: version of pure beauty is, that sort of plastic look.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: And I like that. But at the same time, I
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: didn't want to see Daniels having sex. He was such
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: a stiff character. R.I.P. He was such a stiff character
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: that the idea of him having sex was like Robocop
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: putting it down.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd say they do that with his other wife,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: I guess, maybe because they wouldn't like actually having no sex,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: I suppose.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: Marla Danes, when I go back and watch it, I
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: feel like he was married to his mom. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: It's a real rub.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: That is a commercial against marriage. Their whole, like, the
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: entirety of their dynamic. And also, shout out, we didn't
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: talk that much about Lester Freeman, who's like a quiet
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: hero of this season. Lester Freeman, who in season one,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: I keep trying to tell people. Here's the other thing
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: with Lester, man. I'm just letting y'all know.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: You cannot save that girl. He can.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: You.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: You cannot.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: Uh-huh.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: Uh-huh.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: He hit her with all the game.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: The other thing, too, I need to look this up
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: because I don't have a great concept of how old
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: they were trying to say Lester Freeman was at that point. Like,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: he is, in real life, he would have been about
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: 50 years old. Yeah, that checks out.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: He's fantastic. I saw him the other day. I decided
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: to do a rewatch of True Detective Season 1. And
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: I forgot that Lester is up in there as a preacher.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: And I wish I know, Lester's done fine. Like he's
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: been in some things, but I expected Lester to do
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: some more serious stuff after the wire too, because I
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: thought he just, he put his foot in that role.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: I thought Lester obviously would have his right, but I
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: thought Lester and Lansman. Yeah.
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: I thought those actors were incredible. Lansman's the evil lawyer
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: on SVU. I bet his residual.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 3: Checks is fantastic.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: By the way, fun fact about the actor that played
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Lester Freeman, he sang Back Up on Boogie Nights by
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: Heat Wave.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: Get out of here. Yeah, no lie. I somehow didn't
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: know that. That's fantastic.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: I didn't know until right now.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: And I will say, last thing before we get out
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: on this, Chris Partlow, to me, is a sleeper amazing
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: character on that show that we don't talk. Like the
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: moment with him and Michael unspoken, recognizing, that they had
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: been through the same things that ultimately leads to him
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: savagely beating Michael's daddy to death, which is the only
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: emotional killing that he performs on. That's another eye-opening moment
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: of the show. It's ultimately the undoing of Chris Parlow
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: in the.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: End of the show.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: But him and Snoop as a dark comedy team that's
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: just snatching people up and putting them in vacancy, but
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: then also having that... brief moment, not even a brief
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: moment of humanity, the humanity of Partlow comes through in
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: all his interactions with Michael. But it's like, unlike Marlowe,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: who gives us no real show of humanity, other than
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: when he's trying to get Chris to go to Atlantic
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: City with him. They throw that out there for you.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: It's not quite, like, The Wire is not quite a
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: Marlon Brown book, but they still do kind of give
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: you a little, you know, the boys, like the boys sometimes, right?
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 3: Just throwing it out there.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: Real slick for you if you want it. But But yeah,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: the Chris and Snoop team, and we didn't, I guess
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: we could end talking about this, the greatest introductory scene
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: in the history of television with her buying that nail gun,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: laying out the whole season in a way that you
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: could never expect and her buying that nail gun.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah. At the, what was it called? It was the,
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: It was obviously.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: A Home Depot, but they definitely made it something else.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: No, but it's an actual, I think it's an actual
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 3: store in Baltimore. It actually is. It's a local. But yeah,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: you earned that buck like a motherfucker.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: He called it the Cadillac.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: He mean Lexus.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: He mean Lexus, but he don't know. He don't know.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: But she retained every bit of information that he gave her, too,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: and then relayed it to Chris. She picks up very
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: quickly on everything.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we just speak different languages.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: But she is the real life version of this sort
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: of gray area, right? Like, there was a family out
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: there who was very upset that she was in primetime
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: TV and HBO because of what she'd done in her
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: real life.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 3: And she came on that screen and she was, you
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: couldn't have been a more charming character. You know what
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: she was for me? She was like that joke about
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: this real thing where Raytheon had a DEI. They were
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: hiring a DEI director and it's like, Is DEI a
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 3: good thing at Raytheon? You know, it's like, because Snoop
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: came in and I'm like, hell yeah. About time we
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: had some female representation among the killers. And it's like,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: what are you rooting for?
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: The other part is, man, she's kind of cute.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: Like, there's a privilege in that.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: And you talk about, you know, sometimes boys like boys.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: It was a sex symbol. That was it.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: Young M.A.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: Before Young M.A., right? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: If I ever told you about this.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: When me and Shannon were doing the show in Miami,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: we walked out one day after work and we saw
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: this girl catatonic. Oh, my God.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: She couldn't form a word. She's just screaming at the
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: top of her lungs.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: And then she runs up and she gets her homegirl
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: and she's screaming and they're having some conversation and the
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: homegirl picks up on it and she starts screaming and
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: they jump on up and down. They literally cannot form words.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: Never seen anything like this. And then they run back out.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what are they running to? And it was
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: young in May.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: I never seen anybody.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: Respond to the sight of a celebrity like these girls
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: did when they pulled up on young inmate. I, I,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: I never had it.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: So yeah.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: So Snoop was, I find that Snoop also in season
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: three has an underrated great scene where she lied, explaining
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: how they, how she killed string of bell and their
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: rhapsody with.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: The shit was worse than fucking pathetic.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: But man, I think we got to what there was
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: to get to on season four of The Wire. If
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: we missed things, that's what the comments are for. Jason England,
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: Google the man.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: Check him out.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: His work is there. More work is coming.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: My brother, I appreciate you.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 3: Appreciate you too. Thank you. All right, man.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: And ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: here on.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: The Right Time. We do this four days a week.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: Ryan Brumley, handle things behind the scenes. Thank you, sir.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: Hit the voicemail line, 323-596-7767.
• 1:10:21
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• 1:10:27
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• 1:10:29
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• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: talk to you guys in a couple of days.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Take it easy.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: This has been a Playmaker Production.