Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Lena Patel – Being a financial planner from an ethnic minority background

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Lena Patel – Being a financial planner from an ethnic minority background · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
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• 0:25
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• 0:29
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• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hello everyone, it's Alina back for this week's episode of the Financial Planner Live Podcast.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: And this week I am joined by Linda Patel, Chartered Financial Planner at ISJ Independent Financial Planet.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: And in this week's episode, we discuss what it's like to be a female financial planner from an ethnic minority background, how we encourage more people from ethnic minorities into financial planning roles and to access financial advice and the importance of educating young people about money.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks very much for coming on and joining me this afternoon, Lena.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: How are you feeling?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, very good, thank you.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm very good.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for asking.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, as I like to start with the more, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I'm Chartered Fellow Financial Planner based in Leicester.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I help mainly uh people that are going through a relationship breakdown or find themselves single after a bereavement.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we can couples make their dreams come true when they look at their finances, really, and hopefully give them the confidence to start living life in a more fulfilled way.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, excellent.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, do you want to tell us a little bit about your career journey today?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, you're a managing director, you own your own firm.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, how was your how did you get to this point as such?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I left with no A levels, unfortunately, so I failed them miserably.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I got a job in Basel, and then I did various roles within Bartley, including stuffing back in the day, envelopes dispatch because it wasn't automated then, did cashiering, did the main payment work, and then over the years worked myself often did as a branch manager, went to call the corporate to a relationship manager.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then I applied for a job as a premier manager in D Gesty.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, um there was a guy called Steve in the financial planning department.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Oh, why don't you come and join me?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh, I'm not clever, you know, I can't be a big fan.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and he had a team of 16 men at the time, so no females and no Asian people.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: But he said, No, no, I think you'd be good, I think you're really good, I think it's great for you.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No, things well, I've got two children, I can't do this, very well.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I started that and I went for that job and then put uh I got the job in the year.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I think Steve had belief in me when I didn't have belief in myself.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that was um in 2008.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I worked a barkist for 17 years, and then I was uh approached by Santander.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, a bit of a big move because I thought barking would have been a job for the rest of my life, really.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um retention, all those sorts of things, great company car, great salary.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had a laptop which was great because I thought, oh, I can manage children, and um it'd be all I was working really late hours.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So when I went to Santa, I said, Oh yeah, you can come to us, but we don't have any laptop or anything, which I was working the branch nine to five, and I thought, oh my gosh, but I think at the time it was the best thing that ever happened to me.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: She gave me work class balance back.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking at five and I was going home and had a normal life.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I was there for five years and then um I went to work for SJP for a short period of time, which was a bit of a a challenge, but stuff five months later I decided to set up my own business and um yeah, it was that's uh I was saying before.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I is are the first initials of my three children, and uh yeah, dream became to uh seed with uh phone, and yeah, it became reality.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that was it, yeah.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think if we go back to like all the way to the beginning of your career journey, if we talk about Steve, you know, this individual that sort of gave you that opportunity as such, and you look to that financial planning team, and we will talk a lot about sort of ethnic minorities within the industry during this podcast and things like that.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: But how did you feel, as you said, you know, there was no you know, Asian ethnic minorities within that team?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: How did you feel?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Did you feel like there potentially wasn't a place for you there?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Or I think it was.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think when people look at me, I guess they don't see colour, I think it's just leader.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I see it as something I'm different to all these people because the base must be different.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And in order for Fity, you try and be a certain way at the time.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just thought I can't, I can't do these.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: All these people have got, they're not they've got partners at home, or they've got children, they haven't got children, they've got the children that I had at the time.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I had two very young children, and um I just got divorced.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it was very to me, but he never thought that he gave me the power and the belief and a thoroughity with his belief in myself.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because I went down to London as an assessment, and there were two other guys that I went down with, and they'd already got their qualifications.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when I felt my A levels, I thought, well, that was it, I was never gonna study again.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Lo and behold, uh it became a whole degree level of studying, but that's a different story.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so for me at the time, I just thought I can't do it because I can't, I don't I couldn't see myself in that thing because I've never been, I've never seen someone like me in the scene, not a female, not Asian.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just interesting at the time.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for it.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a lot of intersectionality between yourself, but lots of different factors that obviously relate your to your experience as such.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: You're not just a female financial advisor, but you're a female financial advisor from an ethnic minority.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you've you've got potentially two barriers as such that we sort of discussed.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Have you do you think you faced any barriers sort of um due to due to this?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um only in yourself, in your own mind, in your own sense, in beliefs.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think out there there is um there's the people are so encouraging at the moment of encouraging more women, people from any underrepresented uh representative in my mind, whether that be LBT or um disabled people or well, it's all we're trying to be more diverse, inclusive, and but I think sometimes it's stuck within your own head that you limit yourself because you don't fit in or you can't see who it looks like you.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you think, well, that's their job, that's what they do, and I don't do that.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's your own belief that stops you, I think.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we've discussed this previously, wasn't it?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: It was a belief to feel like you almost had to fit into a certain box and you had to make yourself mould into a certain box to be successful or to fit in.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do you mind explaining or elaborating a little bit more about that?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, when I first set it out, I felt that um education, education, education, all your examples, all these all that really mattered because and that was only really clever.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't embracing my own individuality and what I brought to the team or as a as a person.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was very much um trying to fit in with all the others, trying to be um working late, having all the commitments, and just doing everything over and above that I needed to, always trying to prove yourself sometimes because you had to go that extra bit more to do what the others could because you were trying to run a home, and this is probably very seriously difficult, but most financial advisors when I was doing it because I've had a partner at home that wasn't working.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so you're just coming into work, and that was it really.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think when we were doing it in the banking world, it was very much sales and party oriented, it was all levels, tables, rankings, commission.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: But all those feelings within you, you're working over and above to be top of that table because that's what I wanted to be.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I was, you know, wanted to be the best of the bunch.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think everyone sort of has that got that drive in them as such to want to be the best.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but definitely when we talk about, you know, your position as a working mum and stuff like that, you have got children at home and that there you potentially have faced different barriers in that element that other people do, especially having so many sort of stereotypically white male older financial planners out there, you are in a very different position as much.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you have posted um on LinkedIn and speaking about sort of racism and stuff like that.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: And as you've just touched on it's not necessarily so much the not just about facing it, but also you know, having that belief within yourself.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: How did you overcome that then?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: You talking about you always had to felt like you had to fit potentially into a certain box.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of other people have belief in you, um, you took that belief and sort of ran with it.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: But potentially for other members um in the audience sort of listening to this or watching this, that have that feeling like that they don't fit in or they don't have a place within the profession, how would you sort of mentally get over that hurdle?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need to fit in.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody has their own um skills, their own mindset.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Most of my clients don't even look at the color of my skin, they don't even think twice, but I had to find my own beliefs.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it was important to me to accept who I was and that I was good at what I was, try and not try and keep striving to be something else.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, because nobody I saw this I was cheesy, I suppose, but nobody saw that look like me and think, oh yeah, I can aspire to be like that because all the good IFAs all were were of a certain kind, and you would so you felt you had to be like that.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, I'm enough to be good at what I do, and clients are very good and explaining that with some videos recently, and you know, when you hear what your clients have to say about you, you understand that you don't need to be anything else.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the fact that we are of an Asian profession, the IBJ 55 of advisors, we've got a great opportunity to encourage more and more younger people to come into the profession.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, what we spoke earlier was about in an Asian culture, if you're a doctor, you're a dentist, you're a lawyer, then we're all recognised professions.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, I don't think my mum still really gets where it is.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: She knows that I'm sort of writing, she knows that I'm in papers and stuff.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's that it's not a recognised profession, but it is degree level.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a fellow um kind of graduation, but all those things, when you're younger, you don't know the profession.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's only the one career I think that you have that can use a lot of skills.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can use people's skills, you can change people's lives, you can influence people's decisions and help them come to good decisions in their life and transform people's lives, um, which I never knew when I was in the bank, in a way.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was just helping cats make money, but now I'm able to help them fulfill their lives, which is just an amazing feeling.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so valuable, you know, the profession and what it does, it you add so much value into people's lives.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And as you just said, you know, I think there is sort of potentially this viewpoint within Asian communities to sort of push your children to be, as you said, you know, doctors, lawyers, because they do add value to people's lives, but you know, lawyers in terms of you know supporting people through those legal battles, doctors in terms of sort of medically, but financial planners enable people to meet financial freedom, you know, they allow people to fulfil their short-term and long-term financial goals.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: So it's definitely, you know, a really rewarding career where you can really add value, noticeable value to people's lives.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: You can change people's lives in multiple different ways.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, how do we then encourage more people from sort of ethnic minority backgrounds, potentially at school level, to step into the financial planning profession?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so they are more sort of there are more people from ethnic minorities within the industry?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, difficult question.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's the diversity on everybody's mind at the moment.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're trying to encourage more diversity in our profession.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we need more others.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's people that are able to um support the profession, shout about the profession.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: I hate posting on social media, absolutely different.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality of the interaction I get with folks is from other people who are will reach out and say, Well, what was your journey?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: You're really good at what you do.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see it like that, but it's that being able to think, okay, even if you help one extra person every day with it in their lives or within their career, or whether it'd be just being able to apply for a job, think about it as a career.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's important is spreading the news, the good news that we do with clients, because we don't get a lot of that at the moment.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're getting a lot of negative press, but um, we never get a lot of positive press around the lives that we do change.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And in regards then to sort of, as you just touched on, you know, um, you have an exposure as an ethnic minority financial planner, you know, speaking to people um joining the profession or speaking to people that might be out of the profession, do you think having an increased presence of ethnic minority um financial planners will encourage more people to from ethnic minorities to join the profession?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it will.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it will.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: The more people you see out there doing that as the as a profession, it's not seen very a lot of people don't see as a job or a career that they want to go down when you go to careers fairs at the school and stuff like that.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's where we need to be started is talking um at careers fairs and the good old um conversation we need to have about what you want to do next.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And people don't see that financial training is a great care to go into, but I also think that it will encourage more people from ethics plan to get advice as well on the flip side, you know, there's more clients to think, okay, yeah, I can go to this person because they might understand me culturally, which I had appreciated before because somebody called recently for ladies and men that go into a divorce, but I'll rang you or found you because I felt that you'd understand me culturally because you understand the challenges of maybe divorce, and I'm divorcing not just him or her, but it's the family we're divorcing.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And having been in that situation, you can emphasize and understand where somebody is coming from.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you have got a lot to add, I think, is that that way.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: So there's two sides of this coin here, really, isn't there?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's the fact that having more financial planners from ethnic minorities will, in the long run, I personally believe, obviously, I think you agree with me from uh from our conversation so far, um, seeing more ethnic minority financial planners may potentially encourage people like when the same position that you were in back in the day to think, well, they're having a lucrative career.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I can do that as well.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's statistics that show across the board, whether it be with talking about talking about diversity and exclusivity across the board, may that be with like female financial planners, may that be with ethnic minority financial planners, you know, seeing other people in those senior positions within your firm encourages you to sort of strive for the same because you think that if they can do it, I can do it.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe if they weren't as represented in those positions, you then on the flip side don't think you're able to do it yourself.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's the other side of the coin as well.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's I think, you know, having those um financial planners from ethnic minorities then encourages people from ethnic minorities to seek the advice.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it's funny um that you talk about that cultural thing because um, and we discussed it previously a lot of the time, and you know, you said it before with your mum not necessarily knowing what you're still doing.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bit of a viewpoint that sort of property is king of such, but not necessarily the financial planning process of all the different elements and the complexities that we know.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: So um I think it's definitely a case of having those um people in those positions will also encourage people to come speak to you and break that sort of money to boo, because as you just touched on, you know, you have that cultural awareness.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think people are sort of looking for someone when they're going to have these potentially honest, slightly personal conversations to do it with someone which they feel understands them.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just um we used the company to do some uh interviews for clients and uh testimonial videos, and she said I just was so bored about going into me because I thought they'd think I was stupid, and I think that's it.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: People think just because they may not have the answer, um feel stupid, so they don't ask the question.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if you feel comfortable going to somebody who is embracing a culture and can make an answer question, even in the language barrier sometimes to talk to some answers, and that's that's also good just so and also for me it's it's a really easy route to go a really good career because ultimately you don't have to go to university, yeah, and you don't get much added cost of a university degree, but you have the impact um and the ability to make a great career and make a great lifestyle for yourself.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that's on something that we spoke about um previously.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: So you didn't go to university, as you said, you know, you'd done your A levels and you thought maybe go as you map them out and you think, well, that's you know, that's it for me, that's my education, my learning done.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, you've got a fellowship, am I right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I was looking online, and like a fellowship is the equivalent of a university degree.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you have a university degree without going to uni, which is amazing.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't even know this until you mentioned it to me and I looked on the line.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that that that is such an achievement?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that needs to be more sort of recognised across the board?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think it does, I think because I think whilst um I just set up my business, but again, um I was I felt that oh to be successful, I have to be fellow, I have to be fellows to be successful.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: But and I did do it and I did set up the business at the same time, finish off my um studies to become chartered.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um it does set you apart.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think it does mean that you've got the passion and the drive to do more for clients.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the be all and end all, but ultimately, you know, the diploma, the original first four uh first to fourth, four level four um diploma, it's probably only six exams and then multiple choice.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that makes life a lot of it easier if you're not wanting to leave home, go to university.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't like studying in the odd format and having to write a dissertation, all those sorts of things, I think this is a good opportunity for people to explore.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's it's having the opportunity to speak to people about it in the first place.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely, definitely.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think as you just touched on then, you know, university isn't for everyone.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, lots of people don't want to travel from home, you know, it is and also, you know, going to university, it's nine grand a year just solely on your like to actually do the course, never mind how much money you're spending on your rent and your food and all the essentials.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think definitely, and we all talk about the level four diploma and it is a massive achievement.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: Being a chartered financial planner is a gold standard that's such an achievement.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think it's recognised, or as I said, I didn't realise that how the equivalent that it had sort of at university level.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely do think that that as a statistic needs to be more sort of renowned across the board.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: So individuals know, you know, you are going to be super qualified and you're going to have all these amazing things, qualifications, and all the technical knowledge behind it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: And you don't have to go to university to do that.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to go to university to be uh have like a super lucrative, successful career in an industry.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think, and there's definitely going to be a big um gap for advice as workers and advisors are retiring.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: You've got more and more people, and younger people are more engaged with finances and talking about money.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think um people don't like to really talk about money, but now we're with uh the sort of mental health and anxiety and these stresses that we have.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important, but money is a big trial within these conversations and these issues that people are experiencing.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if we could talk more openly about it, I think it's it's great for everyone.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how because as you said, I've spoken about this previously on the podcast.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like money is quite a taboo subject, and it can be.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: How do you encourage more people, especially maybe people um from sort of ethnic minority communities, to then have that conversation about money?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Start with childhood.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to be talking better in school.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think my big thing is teaching everybody to be independent and not codependent.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Whether that's you know you live in a home, whether you're in a relationship, whatever your situation is, is making sure that you are financially independent and not codependent, understanding your earning capacity, your expenses from a very young age.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really important because ultimately we're otherwise we're going to go to this digital world where my youngest don't think you need such an affior money anymore to perform because everything's Apple Pay, Apple Watch, contractors.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he really understands what money is because he just thinks, oh yeah, you've got Apple Pay, but it's only you.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Even the I three man takes Apple Pay.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So two plan by the door when the doorbell means anymore.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's he just runs off with a car for his phone, he just goes off.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really important that we understand what money is, and that is going back to basics of uh you know, talking about it in school and education and then moving on, oh, and not being fearful even to get into relationships, talking about what your expectations are and how things are going to work because.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I never did it really, I don't think.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, do a lot of your experiences to date sort of tie in with the education that you'd like to get back?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, we speak a lot about um, as you just said, making sure that you're financially independent to potentially lots of the clients that come visit you have had issues because they have been very codependent.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is particularly women that come to me that may not have had a grip on their finances in a relationship because they've been busy, nurturing children, um their careers may have taken a back seat.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important that those roles are still gonna be always there because men can't have children, but it's understanding that when you're going through that process, but you're having a scientist conversation with your partner and saying, Okay, well, I'm doing this at the moment, but how's that going to impact my future?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think we're seeing more and more relationship breakdowns, and we're seeing more and more women that are going, or men that are going situations because men feel that they should be providing for their children, but they can't do that because their own life is being satisfied.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's it's that conversation that needs to be had on earlier on in the relationship, which people don't tend to have for some reason.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: So do you think it's all about that initial conversation then?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: So for potentially sort of you know females out there that might be in the audience that feel like they don't have as much of a grip or that on their finances, may that be due to the the part of relationship they're in, may that due to be like them currently not being in work and their partner being the worker or anything like that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: What advice would you give them?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's you've got to try and approach the conversation, have the conversation and just be openised about how you're feeling.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because ultimately, the the other person probably hasn't got a clue about how you're feeling about it.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's ultimately where we always start.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're always assuming um that they know how you feel, or that they are gonna always think the worst, but it's always a true, false, or I don't know.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it's making sure you understand that the assumptions, assumptions that you're making about that conversation, the answers you're going to get are not there.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Have an open conversation.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is how I'm feeling about this set of circumstances.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: What can we do to make it work?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when I have that thing, you can just work it out, but the more I think the years go by, it just becomes those foundations that you tell yourself that story, and then that story becomes reality.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's where those self-limiting beliefs have got to stop and think, okay, yeah, let's have a conversation, see where we can move forward because that's better for everybody.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: And definitely, um, your experience to date have made a play in sort of the the people that you attract or the people that you give advice to as such.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Do you notice then?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I was gonna say it's not do you do you notice then that you ended up having like targeted a specific audience or uh a certain clientele sort of gets attracted to you due to sort of your experiences as such?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so when I first set up, um I was very much asked to uh I've read the Elf Ireland, they said, Oh yeah, you've got a niche, and I didn't couple of niche, oh what I need I need to make money, I need to mix out clients, I need to build a business, I need to give everything to everybody.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: But quite quickly, what I realized was um I was attracting just mainly single women because there's very few women that do the job, so sometimes if you're at that stage in a relationship where you have broken down and you've lost um your partner, you just don't want to talk to men at that point because all men are awful or whatever, yeah, for that short period of time.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and sometimes a lot of my clients feel that men are condescending, you know, make talk very technical about the intricacy of what we want to be told is that it's gonna be okay, it's gonna be bumpy, there's gonna be challenges, you're gonna get all these emotions, but ultimately at the end of it, if you do these things, you will come out better.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where you thought about children and all those steps that people go through when these things happen to you.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but having that experience, also talking about that experience for me has really helped because it felt my clients have faith in me talking about something I've experienced and understood and come out the other end better for it, really.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that's what I'd be able to say.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we we always talk about how you know it's very stereotypical and very cliche to be like, oh, um uh a female is gonna want a female financial advisor, you know, um someone from an ethnic minority is going to want someone from an ethnic minority.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I think we do, I think you do underestimate how much you do just want someone that empathises with your experiences and not just someone that emphasizes it from the outside, but someone that fully appreciates everything that you've been through, besides sharing your pain, someone that actually understands the highs and the lows, and I think in the position that you are yourself, showing to people as well, as you said, you know, that it is going to get better, it is going to be okay.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I had a client this morning, and she has been through a break of only in October of last year, and she was in she's 55, she wasn't married, she's got a young child, those eleven.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: The reality is that she's still in the grieving stage, but she didn't really understand that it isn't it's a loss.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was when I went through it, I couldn't understand those feelings really at the time.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think three years on, you do grow, you do thrive.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is probably, you know, it's it's a journey that you're on.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And for her, it was like, well, I can say to her, you will I've been through that, I've been through that stage of not being able to make a decision, procrastination, living in a survival mode.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you are able to come to the other end if you if you persevere and accept that and go through that period, then and and we coach them through that process.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's part of the good thing about being a financial plan and also a financial coach is that you're able to coach those clients.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And she left, say, you know, I felt it was a bit of a therapy session, and I thought, well, as long as you've taken some good things away from it, then it's going to be okay.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes you just need someone in your corner that's that's got your back and that has believed in you because you need to borrow some beliefs sometimes when you haven't got your own.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's really you touched on almost it being like a therapy session.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I guess you just touched on two key things that are very important.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, how would you differentiate like the financial coaching side to the financial planning side?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching is making uh supporting clients to make decisions and talk about money and helping them to come over money blocks that they may potentially have.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and those can be rooted to when you're a childhood, but you've just gone through that process telling ourselves the same story without obviously stopping and thinking about what's going on.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they've intervened to a great extent, really, because the client had this point, she needed some coaching and she needed some channels.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: She's got lots of pension, she's got lots of savings, she's got an IHG problem.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, she couldn't make a decision because she was so worried.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: But helping that client through that journey, being able to coach them to a position where they can think clearly, um, having some conversations with people in her life that you know needed to be had, is is where they can start to make clear decisions about their future.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's what I would say, yeah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that must be so valuable as well, because not only are you as a financial planner supporting people with their sort of their general like what you usually do is like their pensions and investments and stuff like that, but you're actually giving people the power to have financial freedom in the future.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's important.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, I think it's she left and she was she said, I feel a bit lighter, and I think it's that feeling of being a bit lighter and every day and chicken.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think um you know, there's a hot uh when relationships break down, there's a lot of stuff that you go through which when you're teenagers you can go over quite quickly when you're older, and you're facing potentially having to go into rented accommodation, and all those worries that you may have, they're really difficult to deal with, and particularly when you don't want to talk about them.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Friends, maybe family.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, having someone that's in your corner and values and have the same values that you do when you're talking about it.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because it we don't want it to be a fight all the time.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's not like and it's funny how we use the term therapy earlier on because I once read a book and it was talking about how when you go to therapy, usually you go because you have a presenting problem.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, you've had a relationship breakdown, or someone has passed away, and that is your presenting issue as such, and then behind it, you've got to unravel everything else that's sort of got you to that point in time, or that is all involved with the feeling.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: I guess an element of what you do is similar to that.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Someone will come to you with a presenting problem, may that be a relationship breakdown, may that be a bereavement, and then you work alongside them to not just eliminate that presenting issue, but support them with everything else that's going on in the background.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we tell our stories, it tells us a story when we're Liz Lawn is going to have how a client's been told her death told her, you've got to pay for the rainy day.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: I say for the rainy day, father's side, she's 65, she's sorry.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: She's still saving for the rainy day, but she's got half a million pounds in the bank.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: That rainy day really isn't going to come because we've done a cash flow model.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: She knows, but sometimes giving herself the permission to accept the rainy day is not going to come, I don't save anymore.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's really tough because she's told herself that for probably 60 years, because that's why Dad told her to work hard, you know.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because it she just couldn't do it for a while.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: But over years, you she talked about them and she'll be saying, Am I gonna be okay?
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she can be fine building long-standing relationships, right?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's important, I think, that they've got someone around for the longer term, and hopefully one of the children will take over in the future.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: None of them want to know at the moment.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're all busy doing their own thing.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, definitely.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's really important that that financial planning incorporates all these different elements, and I do think loads of more people are getting not just involved with the financial planning element side of things, but the financial coaching side.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know if you agree, but we talk we always talk about this holistic financial planning model, which um incorporates all these different elements.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I do think, you know, potentially as we could the industry keeps on moving forward, financial coaching as much as financial planning needs to be part of that.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think Ken they both go hand in hand.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um, well, lots of people do um, even if you just do financial coaching, there'll always be needed for financial planners to to complete the regulated advice and to help clients make those decisions because those decisions that they make at that crucial moment have to stand for the rest of their lives in the longer term and sustain income and for their and their legacy and their futures as well.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a great way forward.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've seen more and more coaches and um courses available to help people provide the advice and go through processes as well because a lot of the coaches, I mean, I went through my own um financial coaching journey when I became a financial coach, and it was it was life-changing, absolutely life-changing.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I had a key karma coming on mentality.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I never really touched and understood why I was behaving the way I was.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she what I was what I've been through when I was younger children, the way I've dealt with money then.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: So it's amazing how far that does go back.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it it sort of carves your pathway sometimes.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we've also talked about um you've obviously you started the financial um mentor and coaching side of things, you've also been doing quite a lot of networking recently, which is really nice to see sort of on LinkedIn.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Have you been doing um networking sort of not just within is it just within sort of financial planning the events that you've gone, or are you sort of networking with people in different industries as well?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, so I started networking when I went when I started five years ago, and then over the years I've not done as much, but when I took these obvious on about two months ago, um it was to build more of a presence in the community um who are living not far from where around at the moment.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so the start was around the corner.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we've been collaboration with the solicitors, I thought well, it's good to start something locally.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it is just anybody in the community that wants to come along and make new connections.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think it's just sometimes when you start a business or you're a sole trader or whatever situation you're in, you might have a question.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes you get isolated.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: So when we go, when we have the morning meeting, it's great just to people come along, they can see those like-minded people there, you can ask a question, but it's for all um all professions or everyone just making connections, and um it was uh it was an interesting one because oh my god, why did no one turns up for the first one?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because um just haven't had any people want to be face-to-face networking together, people and there's mainly following there's lots of women there, which is great to see because um it encourages more people to come along.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um if you can see someone like yourself again that's there, that does have their own business, that does have children, but it can be done, it's just a challenge.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, fab.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: So do you think it adds lots of value?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think I've I've and I get I also guess outside it networking outside of the industry must be great as well because you learn from all different experiences, not just from people within your industry.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, what kind of value do you think that networking adds to yourself?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it raises profile for the profession because it just sets you apart from somebody that might go there and just talk about well, I think it's issues to invest in this stock.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I tend not to go into those conversations.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's important that you can just maybe talk about what you do and how you help a client that week, what your story of that week is.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's interesting because you are different to people, and there's a lot of financial advisors and financial planners, and it's the differentiation in between what makes you different to the people around you, and also being able to share ideas with people.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I've met lots of people at least.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: We've done two so far, so we do one a month on the first Thursday of every month, and um yeah, it just brings people together.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: Last week there was somebody there that was um decided to give up.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: She was doing counselling, and she said she'll give the notes in it at the school that she did counselling and set up on her own.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it's amazing that you can think or if you can do it.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: She says, Well, I'm gonna give a girl.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I've been talking for a while, but it's just nice to know that you can help and support people that are on the same journey as you and give somebody else a lending hand and that self-belief again.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: I go on about it, but sometimes you need to borrow some self-belief.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've borrowed a lot over the years, um, and I think I haven't realized it.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think um you need the support sometimes.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Now you're giving that self-belief back, isn't it amazing?
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like the full cycle that you go in.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: We started off the pot sort of this episode of the podcast talking about how Steve let you borrow that little bit of self-belief off him, and now you're out here, you know, giving it back to people, showing them that sort of you know, what I can do, you can also do.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think an amazing theme throughout this whole podcast has been sort of this element of community um and this element of, you know, being a child laser as such, I think, by putting yourself out there like you have done.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like obviously you said, you know, you don't like making LinkedIn posts and things like that.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: But by putting yourself out there and by talking about your story, you are encouraging not just ethnic minorities, but females to not only to take a step into the profession themselves, but to also access the advice and know that they are, you know, they are in a position to be in the position you are in, and also that you know they are in a position to be comfortable to speak to you about all their issues.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: May that be things that they've not spoken to anyone about before or felt uncomfortable speaking to people about previously.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you know, and it all we all a lot, you know, it is about the money you can earn.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very lucrative um position to be in of the first five years have been tough, and you probably and I became single in between that.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's been it has been a challenge.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you've got to pay bills, you should pay your bills, you've come a directly authorised firm as well, so it's all the compliance that goes with it.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: But so it's not an easy role by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a very rewarding role, and and you can build a really great life from it, and to help clients, um, which is the best bit about it, really.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then when clients say that you're transforming their lives, then it's amazing to me.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't sort of write it in a yeah, it must be amazing to work so closely with people to transform those lives, and especially what you're doing, um, using your experiences um to help other people, you know, using difficult emotions that you've gone through and working with people to go through the same going through the same emotions to come to like a really positive outcome and being able to use your experiences culturally as well to support other people must be so rewarding.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it just goes to show, you know, any individual out there, you know, you know, disability, um, sexuality, ethnicity, gender, you can have a really lucrative, successful career within financial planning.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: And as we touched on from the beginning, you know, you there is no need for you to fit in.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's the complete opposite.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: You can use your difference and what makes you special to go out there and support other people.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've seen it.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's lots of clients.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Me, most of my clients come through a Google search and just they just see a picture.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I was even when I said that my website five years ago, there was uh Phil said to me, He said, Oh, you've got a specific picture on there.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Oh no, but there is it with the London skyline.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Well, what does that mean?
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: You live away in London and people are buying you because I didn't want people to know who I was, but without that, there isn't a business, and uh, I think it's important to embrace who we are, but it's it takes time, it takes so it's not easy, but yeah, uh yeah.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously you've gone through you've gone through the journey when you felt like you've had to fit in or act in a certain way, or you've got to be you've got to be a square box to be successful.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think, Lena, you've been an excellent guest, you know, to demonstrate to people out there that you know, you know, you're gonna be successful by being who you are.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: And by being who you are, you're gonna attract that audience that not only is gonna as you know touch on you know such a lucrative, successful industry and you can have a great career, not only that, but it's gonna allow you to really add value to other people's lives and you know use your experiences to better better the people better the lives of others, essentially.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's um yeah, it's uh it's an achievement.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think it takes a while to um accept, but it is a success.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think when I put the office on and saw the nail of the door, it was uh it's uh it's been amazing, but it's lovely.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's great.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks so much for sharing your journey um this afternoon with Selena.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's such an encouraging podcast.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think you know, it goes to show how you know to promote exclusivity and diversity, we need to have amazing um financial planners from ethnic minorities and you know who are different genders like yourself to demonstrate, you know, you can have such a successful career within the industry.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I think trailblazers like yourself, you know, as we've discussed, are not gonna encourage people that might not um potentially get financial advice to get financial advice.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: But in the long run, having people like yourselves on the podcast in positions like yourself is only going to encourage more and more people from these backgrounds to become financial panelists themselves.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me, Anna.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.