Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / The Last of Us Season 2 Wrap-Up Episode

Transcript

The Last of Us Season 2 Wrap-Up Episode · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and SMITHA. I'm welcome to Steffan.
0:07
Speaker 1: I never told you PRODUCTU if I heart radio, and
0:18
Speaker 1: welcome to our hinted at the Last of Us Season
0:23
Speaker 1: two wrap up once again, not a sponsor. If I
0:30
Speaker 1: had control, things would be different. But whatever, and you
0:35
Speaker 1: will get spoiled. On the most recent season of the
0:40
Speaker 1: Last of Us, the first season, the first game, parts
0:44
Speaker 1: of the second game, VY hints at what's to come,
0:48
Speaker 1: So I'll just put that out there. I have a
0:51
Speaker 1: whole section here where I'm going to complain about how
0:53
Speaker 1: hard this is to talk about without spoiling things. But
0:57
Speaker 1: this is a very indulgent thing because it is one
1:02
Speaker 1: of my very favorite It's my very favorite game of
1:04
Speaker 1: all time, and I love the show. I rewatched. I
1:08
Speaker 1: did the whole rewatch last night.
1:10
Speaker 2: Oh, including the first season.
1:12
Speaker 1: No, I didn't. I haven't had time to do that
1:14
Speaker 1: because wow, if you've listened to the show, you know
1:17
Speaker 1: me and Samantha have gone through some we've had some
1:20
Speaker 1: things come up, We've had things, We've had some things
1:23
Speaker 1: come up. So I haven't had time to do that yet.
1:25
Speaker 1: But I did do in preparation for this the whole
1:29
Speaker 1: second season for the first time, and it was cool,
1:32
Speaker 1: like because it's really fun. I've said before I love
1:38
Speaker 1: the anticipation, the guessing of what's coming next time, the
1:43
Speaker 1: next episode. But it was cool knowing what was coming
1:47
Speaker 1: and just being able to like have it continuously go
1:51
Speaker 1: and it moves quickly like the first one. The first
1:55
Speaker 1: season moves quickly, but the second one not just because
1:59
Speaker 1: it's shorter in episodes, but I think because they're moving,
2:03
Speaker 1: they're covering so much ground so quickly that I was like, oh,
2:07
Speaker 1: it's over already, wall they did that much. Wow. Anyway,
2:13
Speaker 1: I had a great time. I can't wait to do
2:15
Speaker 1: the whole thing.
2:16
Speaker 2: Right if you are trying to plan to do one
2:19
Speaker 2: day when when the stars aligned, when.
2:22
Speaker 1: The stars aligned, because that would be sixteen hours, sixteen hours, hoof.
2:30
Speaker 1: I could do it.
2:32
Speaker 2: I know you could. The question is would you take
2:35
Speaker 2: a break?
2:36
Speaker 1: I know that's what I'm like, would you take a
2:39
Speaker 1: pause between? Where would it be? Would it be between
2:43
Speaker 1: season one and season two? But I feel like it
2:45
Speaker 1: would be really good to just roll into the first
2:47
Speaker 1: episode of season two because that's where it starts.
2:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a feeling I'll have to put some
2:52
Speaker 2: ground rules.
2:53
Speaker 1: Down well, that's a problem for future us. That's a
2:58
Speaker 1: problem for future So today it is very indulgent, just
3:03
Speaker 1: a couple of as I said, I had to cut
3:06
Speaker 1: surprisingly because those episodes are pretty long, I had to
3:09
Speaker 1: cut some things out. But also a couple of you
3:14
Speaker 1: have requested this, thank you, and we'll be touching on
3:17
Speaker 1: that a little bit more at the end. But yeah,
3:21
Speaker 1: also it's twofold. It's both Savannah and I have been
3:29
Speaker 1: going through kind of a lot of things, and so
3:31
Speaker 1: this is an easier episode for us, but for me.
3:38
Speaker 1: But also it's hard for me to express how big
3:46
Speaker 1: this feels for me, like that I that this season
3:49
Speaker 1: came out and I got to see it. I don't know, like,
3:53
Speaker 1: now that it's over, I'm having these kind of reflective
3:56
Speaker 1: moments of like, oh gosh, you know that was so
4:00
Speaker 1: important to me, and that I got to wait who
4:04
Speaker 1: knows how long for the next season. So it is
4:08
Speaker 1: kind of a big deal to me. I guess that's
4:09
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say.
4:10
Speaker 2: Yes, it is very big deal, which is why I
4:12
Speaker 2: said we should do a wrap up, because there's things
4:14
Speaker 2: you want to say and we can talk about comparisons
4:16
Speaker 2: and such, so you know, I don't think anybody hates that.
4:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I have to say some of you
4:23
Speaker 1: did write in and uh, we're like, you know, I've
4:26
Speaker 1: never seen the show, but I still love these episodes,
4:29
Speaker 1: and or you convinced me to watch it, and or
4:32
Speaker 1: you convince me to play it, which I'm like, hey, okay,
4:36
Speaker 1: why have we not sponsored.
4:40
Speaker 2: Because they have their own podcast, Danny, But.
4:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I know, but I am very glad
4:45
Speaker 1: to hear that. That makes me feel better because sometimes
4:48
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm just like screaming into a void of
4:50
Speaker 1: people who are like, well, you talk about something else now,
4:54
Speaker 1: But anyway, okay, I recommend that you listen to our
5:01
Speaker 1: previous episodes, our previous recaps on this season that just ended.
5:10
Speaker 1: But you know, you do you do, you do you?
5:15
Speaker 1: But I feel like one thing that I didn't touch
5:20
Speaker 1: on it's kind of interesting coming from someone who's played
5:24
Speaker 1: the game as many times as I have versus someone
5:30
Speaker 1: who has no knowledge is just watching it on TV
5:34
Speaker 1: for the first time, is that I didn't really even
5:39
Speaker 1: talk about the cliffhanger, which it obviously is one. It's
5:44
Speaker 1: a huge cliffhanger, and I think I said in the
5:50
Speaker 1: first episode I had read reviews. I was very nervous
5:54
Speaker 1: about this coming out because I knew I knew, oh,
6:00
Speaker 1: it was going to be controversial. We'll talk about that
6:03
Speaker 1: in a second. But like I also knew there was
6:06
Speaker 1: no good place for them to split it. There just
6:09
Speaker 1: really isn't And we had our theories. Samantha nos I
6:13
Speaker 1: would just randomly text you and your partner be like,
6:16
Speaker 1: I think this is where they're going to split it.
6:18
Speaker 1: But we were pretty sure they were going to split
6:20
Speaker 1: it there. And I knew based on reviews that it
6:28
Speaker 1: was very jarring and sudden thing for a lot of people,
6:33
Speaker 1: and so I was anticipating like being let down, not
6:37
Speaker 1: because it was bad, but just because of the way
6:39
Speaker 1: people were like, you know, I loved it until this
6:41
Speaker 1: point or even like I still love it, but I
6:44
Speaker 1: didn't like this aspect of it. And so I feel
6:47
Speaker 1: like I was really relieved, actually, But I think that's
6:50
Speaker 1: because I'm coming from a place of the gamer who
6:53
Speaker 1: knows what's to come. So I get that people are
6:57
Speaker 1: frustrated by it. It is very sudden, very daring, and
7:01
Speaker 1: it's kind of a big ask to be like, yeah,
7:07
Speaker 1: now the person who've been telling her you hate this
7:09
Speaker 1: whole time, you're gonna get her point of view. And
7:13
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, I the first time I played,
7:16
Speaker 1: I was mad as who It was so mad because
7:20
Speaker 1: they did it so well and so it's it took
7:23
Speaker 1: me a while to come around. And then when I did,
7:25
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, okay, I get it. Okay, okay, okay.
7:30
Speaker 1: But I honestly, as someone who's played the game, I
7:35
Speaker 1: was just like, yes, this is how it is in
7:37
Speaker 1: the game, and I'm relieved that it's not worse than
7:41
Speaker 1: how people were making it sound. But I but because
7:47
Speaker 1: I have the stuff the all, I already know what's
7:50
Speaker 1: gonna happen. I get it. I get that if you don't,
7:54
Speaker 1: and I really do recommend you don't spoil yourself if
7:56
Speaker 1: you can avoid it. That people are frustrated and there
8:01
Speaker 1: was just over and you don't know what happens. You
8:04
Speaker 1: don't know what happens to Ellie, Tommy Ardina. So I
8:12
Speaker 1: wish I had talked about that a little bit more
8:15
Speaker 1: in our final episode, but because to me, I just know,
8:21
Speaker 1: it kind of escapes my right. I'm like, oh yeah,
8:26
Speaker 1: but it was here, and when you play the game,
8:27
Speaker 1: it's like that too. And I didn't know what was
8:31
Speaker 1: going to happen, and it takes forever. Listen, the game
8:35
Speaker 1: is a long game, and it takes a long time
8:39
Speaker 1: before you get to the resolution of what happened when
8:42
Speaker 1: Ellie and Abby finally have this confrontation. So I get it,
8:46
Speaker 1: trust me with you, But I also I know I've
8:53
Speaker 1: talked about this before, but I just wanted to talk
8:58
Speaker 1: a little bit about the kind of heart of a
9:02
Speaker 1: lot of the themes of this game is revenge and justice.
9:06
Speaker 1: How do you frame that? And I think at the
9:11
Speaker 1: end of this season there are questions of was this
9:19
Speaker 1: worth given what Ellie has lost and stands to lose,
9:24
Speaker 1: but also on Abby's side, given what Abby has lost,
9:29
Speaker 1: And I am really interested in how they're going to
9:37
Speaker 1: deal with that because, as I mentioned in our last
9:40
Speaker 1: episode about the finale, Ellie's characterization is different a little
9:47
Speaker 1: in the show versus the game. A lot of them
9:50
Speaker 1: are a lot of them are nicer to be honest
9:52
Speaker 1: with you than they are in the game, and Ellie
9:55
Speaker 1: definitely is at least shows more open remorse than she
10:02
Speaker 1: does in the game, So it feels a little different.
10:08
Speaker 1: It feels like she's already had a realization that Okay,
10:13
Speaker 1: this was not worth it. She doesn't have that in
10:17
Speaker 1: the game at all. But the early marketing of the
10:22
Speaker 1: show was every path has a price, and it was
10:26
Speaker 1: a picture of Ellie picture of Abby in a picture
10:29
Speaker 1: of Joel, and Joel was the one that was looking
10:33
Speaker 1: over his shoulder because he knew what he had done
10:37
Speaker 1: and things might come for him, people like Abby might
10:40
Speaker 1: come for him. But now we have this dynamic of
10:47
Speaker 1: Ellie and Abby having created similar things. Also, people, I
10:57
Speaker 1: love this, but everyone knows I loved Last of Us too,
11:00
Speaker 1: So everyone wants my opinion about it about like everything.
11:05
Speaker 1: And I have a friend who is watching it, I
11:09
Speaker 1: think solely for my benefit. I think she likes it,
11:13
Speaker 1: but she's like, I know, you'll never forgive me if
11:16
Speaker 1: I don't watch it. I'm like, not really, but but anyway,
11:21
Speaker 1: she I hung out with her recently and she she
11:26
Speaker 1: was like, we've talked about it before, so I know
11:30
Speaker 1: some of her thoughts about the first season, for instance.
11:34
Speaker 1: But she had a very specific beef about Abby that
11:36
Speaker 1: I thought was kind of funny, where she was angry
11:40
Speaker 1: that people weren't angrier at her, like the creators, not
11:47
Speaker 1: like outside people, and she was saying, you know, in
11:50
Speaker 1: the post interviews, they never bring up what Abby did,
11:53
Speaker 1: and I'm like, they will. They're gonna bring up in
11:59
Speaker 1: her reason when you learn why her friend group is
12:02
Speaker 1: apparently so fractured when we see them like it was
12:07
Speaker 1: just kind of funny because then I was explaining to
12:10
Speaker 1: her how I felt doing these episodes where it's difficult
12:15
Speaker 1: to talk about her without spoiling things, you know, even
12:22
Speaker 1: if you're unintentionally just bringing something up. But it was
12:25
Speaker 1: it was quite funny to me that her complaint was
12:28
Speaker 1: they weren't mad enough at her, and that complaint actually
12:33
Speaker 1: has some traction I've seen from people online being angry
12:38
Speaker 1: that I honestly think a lot of this is just
12:42
Speaker 1: debate people, but the creators will often say things that
12:47
Speaker 1: contradict each other, and one of them I who knows,
12:52
Speaker 1: because like I said, eighty percent of bots have infiltrated
12:56
Speaker 1: this conversation. But one of the things was that they
13:01
Speaker 1: were saying that, you know, Abby might be the hero
13:04
Speaker 1: of the story and people were freaking out. Yeah yeah,
13:14
Speaker 1: but it was just kind of funny to me that
13:15
Speaker 1: that was her biggest complaint of the whole thing was
13:18
Speaker 1: the post interviews weren't angry enough.
13:23
Speaker 2: So they've never your friend has never seen you go
13:26
Speaker 2: through a playthrough.
13:27
Speaker 1: No, oh, now she I asked her to once and
13:35
Speaker 1: she said, if you give me enough alcohol. But she
13:40
Speaker 1: also said that she gets motion sickness watching people play games.
13:45
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm really good at that, not doing
13:48
Speaker 1: the thing that makes people motion sick. But I'm not
13:50
Speaker 1: going to make her do it. You know, if she
13:53
Speaker 1: don't want to, she doesn't want to. So this is
13:56
Speaker 1: she's heard me talk about it though, because she's told
13:58
Speaker 1: me she doesn't care about sports, so she already knew
14:02
Speaker 1: long when it first came out. I told her the
14:04
Speaker 1: whole thing, right. Another thing that I forgot to mention,
14:20
Speaker 1: I did say, people are really interestingly to me angry
14:24
Speaker 1: that Abby is not buff like she's in the game,
14:29
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about that a little bit
14:30
Speaker 1: more at the end. But and I kind of just
14:34
Speaker 1: moved on and said, you know, basically, the creators said
14:36
Speaker 1: there's no need for us to have her be that
14:40
Speaker 1: buff because it's sort of a plot point that they're
14:43
Speaker 1: clearly not going to use. But also, it was a
14:48
Speaker 1: gameplay thing. It was a gameplay style, so you do
14:52
Speaker 1: play you do play Abby within the first hour of
14:55
Speaker 1: the game, which is crazy. But then when you switch
15:00
Speaker 1: to her POV for a long time, she's very different
15:04
Speaker 1: than Ellie, So it's a way body like her body
15:08
Speaker 1: type is. So it's a way of differentiating the biting
15:11
Speaker 1: styles that they have. So she Abby is much less
15:16
Speaker 1: stealthy but much stronger, and that's just like a way
15:21
Speaker 1: to differentiate your gameplay style. It's kind of an interesting
15:25
Speaker 1: thing where like halfway in the game you have to
15:28
Speaker 1: sort of relearn your strategies. So I think that's one
15:34
Speaker 1: of the things that I kind of love about this game.
15:37
Speaker 1: But I think that's one of the reasons that they
15:39
Speaker 1: were like, well, we don't have to do that because
15:40
Speaker 1: it's not a game, but it is kind of wild that, Like,
15:46
Speaker 1: this is one of the things where I kept saying,
15:48
Speaker 1: it's going to be difficult for them to adapt some
15:50
Speaker 1: of these things because you go from playing this character
15:56
Speaker 1: having this goal Ellie hunting Abby, and then you switch
16:03
Speaker 1: and now you know Ellie is hunting Abby, and you
16:07
Speaker 1: get these signs that she is around, but Abby doesn't
16:12
Speaker 1: know it. Of course she doesn't know it, but you do.
16:15
Speaker 1: So it is it's a very clever like way to
16:18
Speaker 1: get you you feel on edge even though you're playing
16:21
Speaker 1: the person that you had just wanted to kill as Elfie,
16:28
Speaker 1: it's very very interesting to play like the two characters
16:33
Speaker 1: who are in direct opposition to each other and knowing
16:39
Speaker 1: that they're both trying to kill each other because you're
16:44
Speaker 1: your Abby, like find then you're trying to find where
16:48
Speaker 1: Ellie is at the theater, like, oh, I love it,
16:53
Speaker 1: I love it. So one of the things that also
17:00
Speaker 1: we didn't get to talk about too much, but I
17:03
Speaker 1: think it's going to be interesting in the next season
17:06
Speaker 1: is this idea of the causes that you believe in
17:12
Speaker 1: or don't believe in, and in leadership. So we had
17:15
Speaker 1: that conversation with Isaac Hughes saying, I thought Abby was
17:18
Speaker 1: going to be the one to take this over. She's
17:20
Speaker 1: the one that needs to take this over, and she's
17:24
Speaker 1: not there. She's disappeared. And I think that the idea too,
17:32
Speaker 1: of people and groups not being monoleiss is going to
17:36
Speaker 1: be explored, because you know, Abby and her crew just
17:41
Speaker 1: went to the WLF because they didn't really have anywhere
17:45
Speaker 1: else to go and they needed the resources, or at
17:48
Speaker 1: least Abby believed they needed the resources. That the WLF
17:54
Speaker 1: had to train and hunt down Droll to find Joel,
18:02
Speaker 1: and so I think that's interesting as a contrast with
18:08
Speaker 1: Ellie as well, or not. Maybe a similarity is that Ellie,
18:11
Speaker 1: when she has her speech or she's trying to convince
18:15
Speaker 1: the Jackson Whole crew to go find Abby and execute her,
18:23
Speaker 1: she doesn't. I don't think she really believes that. I
18:27
Speaker 1: think she she was hoping they would say yes, but
18:31
Speaker 1: really she was like, I don't care. I don't believe
18:34
Speaker 1: in this whole thing. So we'll see where that goes.
18:41
Speaker 1: That also brings us to Dina and Ellie's love their romance.
18:50
Speaker 1: I am not at all surprised that people are calling
18:58
Speaker 1: it woke. I've always I just have zero surprise of
19:02
Speaker 1: my heart for that. But I will tell you the
19:06
Speaker 1: first time I played it. There are some instances wherein
19:12
Speaker 1: online internet bros call something woke and I don't agree,
19:18
Speaker 1: but I get what they're saying because it feels forced,
19:21
Speaker 1: or it feels poorly written, or it feels like a
19:23
Speaker 1: company that's just trying to signal something. I don't agree,
19:28
Speaker 1: but I kind of am like, Okay, I see where
19:31
Speaker 1: this is coming from. I never felt that with the
19:34
Speaker 1: last times. To me, it felt very natural. I was
19:37
Speaker 1: very I thought it was sweet. I wanted to tappen.
19:39
Speaker 1: It didn't even take me out of the story at all.
19:43
Speaker 1: But the thing is, I also have a liberal bubble,
19:48
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to be more aware of my like bubbles.
19:51
Speaker 1: But so to me, it just doesn't I have a
19:54
Speaker 1: lot of gay friends, so it doesn't seem like, oh,
20:00
Speaker 1: that's weird. Instead it's like, oh, that's nice. It's like
20:02
Speaker 1: a well told, fleshed out, complex love story. And I
20:11
Speaker 1: have been thinking about this for a while. But a lot,
20:21
Speaker 1: a lot of the angry rhetoric rhetoric I'm sitting on line,
20:31
Speaker 1: it's like they're trying to use arguments that sound almost rational,
20:42
Speaker 1: like they're trying to be like some conservative women politicians,
20:46
Speaker 1: do you, Or they're like, that's not feminist, but really
20:48
Speaker 1: it's what they're talking about is anti feminist. So Dina
20:52
Speaker 1: and Ellie's relationship was an interesting example because I read
20:57
Speaker 1: so many articles that were like they were just basically
21:04
Speaker 1: dismissing it and saying that it doesn't add anything or
21:08
Speaker 1: doesn't have depth or all this stuff. They're trying to
21:12
Speaker 1: make it sound like it's just in here to be
21:15
Speaker 1: in here, and I don't feel like it is. But
21:18
Speaker 1: the arguments they were using were very like, this is
21:22
Speaker 1: actually anti LGBTQ, you know what I mean. Weird, Yeah,
21:29
Speaker 1: And I don't. I just never felt that. And that's
21:31
Speaker 1: not to say like no piece of media is perfect,
21:34
Speaker 1: but I just don't. That wasn't the vibe that I got.
21:37
Speaker 1: And I think that they're trying to make it sound
21:41
Speaker 1: like they're being the reasonable ones and actually the ones
21:46
Speaker 1: that are more knowledgeable about this, But I just I
21:53
Speaker 1: just don't think it's coming from a good place because
21:55
Speaker 1: a lot of the a lot of stuff has said
22:00
Speaker 1: they really loved Dina and they think her characterization is
22:05
Speaker 1: better in the show than it is in the game,
22:10
Speaker 1: and they're somehow using that to say that this relationship
22:14
Speaker 1: isn't a good relationship. I'm kind of confused by the
22:16
Speaker 1: whole thing, to be honest. But I also had this
22:21
Speaker 1: thought when I was watching it last night, because I've
22:23
Speaker 1: seen a lot of people say I just don't want
22:26
Speaker 1: to see this, I just don't want to see it,
22:31
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of them were referring to
22:33
Speaker 1: the very non explicit sex scene, but it just kind
22:39
Speaker 1: of made me laugh because it runs against the long
22:43
Speaker 1: standing trope of men wanting to see two women together,
22:47
Speaker 1: and now that they see it, when it's like a
22:49
Speaker 1: real relationship, they don't have.
22:52
Speaker 2: Their case, which is why Dina's more acceptable, because it's
22:55
Speaker 2: still like what a male will think of a lesbian, right,
22:59
Speaker 2: what they want, Yeah, I want to think of as
23:01
Speaker 2: lesbian who is still feminine and cutesy and all that,
23:04
Speaker 2: and then not that Bella Rameses not but not to
23:06
Speaker 2: their standard because she's more masculine.
23:10
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's just very interesting to me when I'm like, oh,
23:15
Speaker 1: this is where if it's actually a real thing, right,
23:19
Speaker 1: you don't like it? I don't actually like it. No.
23:26
Speaker 1: Another thing I picked up on is this isn't such
23:31
Speaker 1: a big thing in the game. It is kind of
23:33
Speaker 1: it's talked about, but they really hammer home the loss
23:37
Speaker 1: of knowledge in this the loss of knowledge in this world,
23:40
Speaker 1: the loss of experts, And in the game you do
23:46
Speaker 1: have moments as the player where you're like, oh, they
23:49
Speaker 1: don't know what this is, and it's sort of played
23:52
Speaker 1: almost like darkly funny, like, oh, they don't know what
23:57
Speaker 1: that is, so I know a show it's very like, oh,
24:01
Speaker 1: this person has died, maybe no one else left knows
24:06
Speaker 1: how to do that, which I think is a really
24:09
Speaker 1: I'm glad they put that in there. I think that's
24:13
Speaker 1: a pretty devastating way that many of us might not
24:17
Speaker 1: think about when we think about the end of the world,
24:20
Speaker 1: to remind you that, Yeah, I mean, what are they
24:23
Speaker 1: going to do? Is it just going Is this just
24:27
Speaker 1: like the slow Will there be any recovery, any recovery
24:32
Speaker 1: from this, or we're just eventually all going to die out?
24:35
Speaker 1: And I had that moment when I was watching the
24:38
Speaker 1: scene between Ellie and Mel who Mel was training under
24:44
Speaker 1: Abby's dad, and Abby's dad was like, really, he was
24:51
Speaker 1: the believe to be one of the last stone, if
24:56
Speaker 1: not the last stone person that could have made a vaccine,
24:59
Speaker 1: so she was like his protege, and she kind of
25:02
Speaker 1: immediately it's just like asking Ellie to try to save
25:07
Speaker 1: her baby. Whether it's desperation, whether it's she just is like,
25:12
Speaker 1: we're all this stuff together, so you're gonna help me
25:16
Speaker 1: right now, because she knows once she's gone, there's no
25:24
Speaker 1: one else. There's no one else there, and no one
25:29
Speaker 1: else with her skill set perhaps, and it's just it's
25:35
Speaker 1: a real it's a real downer is what it is.
25:42
Speaker 1: It's it's effective. I think it's effective of reminding you
25:47
Speaker 1: of the things that are lost that are maybe not
25:52
Speaker 1: the first big things you think of, but that loss
25:56
Speaker 1: of knowledge. Okay, so this kind of transitions into some
26:02
Speaker 1: of the backlash, But first I want to reiterate I
26:12
Speaker 1: don't be careful what you take is truth. There's a
26:17
Speaker 1: reason I said in the very first episode of our
26:20
Speaker 1: mini series that I think the last was to Reddit
26:25
Speaker 1: is one of the most toxic places on the Internet.
26:28
Speaker 1: There's a concerted effort to make you think that these
26:34
Speaker 1: things are true and or just confuse you. But when
26:42
Speaker 1: the game came out, it was very, very controversial. It
26:46
Speaker 1: was I don't think I can even explain to you.
26:50
Speaker 1: You can go online and on YouTube. You can watch
26:55
Speaker 1: the documentary Grounded, which is about how it got made
26:58
Speaker 1: for free, and it has a whole bit in there
27:02
Speaker 1: about how how bad it was. But it was bad.
27:05
Speaker 1: It was one of those things where if you mentioned
27:07
Speaker 1: you liked it in conversation you were running kind of
27:10
Speaker 1: a risk, especially around dudes. But it is one of
27:16
Speaker 1: the most awarded and critically acclaimed games of all time.
27:21
Speaker 1: It is one of the best selling games of all time.
27:25
Speaker 1: So I think that is a reminder that you know,
27:30
Speaker 1: these things you hear online sometimes get really amplified, but
27:34
Speaker 1: they have to, I mean the truth if we're talking
27:37
Speaker 1: about sales. And by the way, some people are like,
27:40
Speaker 1: that's just all pre orders. And then when I found
27:43
Speaker 1: out I didn't like it, but no, because the sales
27:46
Speaker 1: saw boost and they continuously sell. And then when like
27:50
Speaker 1: the Rebaster remake came out, whatever it was, we were
27:53
Speaker 1: all mad about it. We all bought it. Anyway, like
27:58
Speaker 1: people still like it, and this show is the same.
28:01
Speaker 1: The sales actually went up after the show came out,
28:07
Speaker 1: which I'm interested in because I guess it's people wanting
28:10
Speaker 1: to find out how what happens next. That brings us
28:26
Speaker 1: to our listener mail we received, especially one from Margaret.
28:29
Speaker 1: We got one from Margaret and Kelsey about kind of
28:32
Speaker 1: these things, and Margaret was like, you know, I've never
28:36
Speaker 1: played a video game before, but you've convinced me to
28:39
Speaker 1: do it, and I wished me luck, and I'm wishing
28:43
Speaker 1: you luck, Margaret, because this is a very Actually I
28:48
Speaker 1: don't think the game is hard. I think it's pretty good.
28:51
Speaker 1: But I was talking to good in terms of like
28:53
Speaker 1: ease of controls. But I was talking about I was
28:57
Speaker 1: talking to a friend about this the other day and
28:59
Speaker 1: she was like, sometimes I feel like gamers just overestimate
29:03
Speaker 1: how much knowledge you just have, and as non gamers
29:07
Speaker 1: do so like X normally does this or swear normally
29:11
Speaker 1: does this, like across a bunch of games. And she
29:14
Speaker 1: was talking about how she felt embarrassed to even try
29:17
Speaker 1: because her partner is trying to get her to play
29:20
Speaker 1: games outside of like Mario Kart, and she was just saying, like,
29:26
Speaker 1: it just makes me tense and I can't. I feel
29:29
Speaker 1: like he's taking for granted that I don't know what
29:31
Speaker 1: he's talking about. So I think that's a very fair point.
29:35
Speaker 1: I hope that it is a good experience for you,
29:38
Speaker 1: but if not, if you just decide it's not for you,
29:43
Speaker 1: there are plenty of videos online you can watch a gameplay.
29:47
Speaker 1: As I've said, maybe one day mine will be up there.
29:51
Speaker 1: But I'm very interested to hear how your journey goes,
29:56
Speaker 1: and I hope it goes well. But it is I mean,
29:59
Speaker 1: it's one of those games games where like a lot
30:02
Speaker 1: of people start on something maybe not as you know,
30:07
Speaker 1: not as complicated as the last of us too, but
30:10
Speaker 1: I really hope it goes well. And there are a
30:12
Speaker 1: bunch of settings by the way, you can turn on
30:15
Speaker 1: or turn off that'll be like press square whatever, so
30:20
Speaker 1: just know, and difficulty modes like if I'm trying to
30:23
Speaker 1: beat it fast, I played on light and I have
30:25
Speaker 1: no regrets or embarrassment about it, then okay. So it
30:34
Speaker 1: is hard to talk about some of this stuff, and
30:36
Speaker 1: some of it I'm sure those of you who are
30:38
Speaker 1: more aware or like, why haven't you talked about some
30:41
Speaker 1: of these aspects yet? It's because it's really hard to
30:43
Speaker 1: talk about this whole thing without spoiling it. It's meant
30:47
Speaker 1: to be played as a whole story and then in
30:49
Speaker 1: my opinion, literally played again. But here we go. So, yes,
30:55
Speaker 1: the game had this huge backlash. It was massive. I
31:00
Speaker 1: don't think I really have to explain what it was,
31:02
Speaker 1: but essentially it was dudes being like, hey, you took
31:09
Speaker 1: our main Manjol tried to make him into I guess
31:13
Speaker 1: in their minds some kind of villain, which I don't
31:15
Speaker 1: think that's true, but in their minds like make him
31:18
Speaker 1: look bad then a make his play as Elie, who
31:24
Speaker 1: now doesn't seem to even like Joel, Oh my god,
31:28
Speaker 1: and then you have the gall to make us play
31:31
Speaker 1: as abby And there's a lot of anti trans stuff
31:35
Speaker 1: that will get towards when we get to her season.
31:38
Speaker 1: That happened around that because she was so buff and
31:43
Speaker 1: they were just furious. They were furious. There were death threats.
31:46
Speaker 1: It was like, I mean, I wouldn't like I said.
31:52
Speaker 1: It was one of those things where I had to
31:54
Speaker 1: trust you. If I even bring up that I loved it,
31:57
Speaker 1: it was bad news. So when the show came out,
32:03
Speaker 1: I already knew there was gonna be backlash. So it's
32:06
Speaker 1: to me, I was like, yep, I remember what happened
32:11
Speaker 1: when the game came out. This is no surprise. I
32:14
Speaker 1: am disappointed. I am not at all surprised. I think
32:19
Speaker 1: that a lot of things are fueling this narrative that
32:29
Speaker 1: everyone's everyone hated it, or everybody's angry about it or whatever.
32:36
Speaker 1: I don't think it's true personally, That's not been my experience,
32:42
Speaker 1: but I do think there's a lot of like thoughts
32:45
Speaker 1: and just really angry people who are fueling it. And
32:53
Speaker 1: it's fascinating to me because a lot of the things
32:58
Speaker 1: I've been seeing are gamers who are mad that it's
33:02
Speaker 1: not like the game, but they hated the game, and
33:05
Speaker 1: so I'm like, guess you hated that in the game,
33:11
Speaker 1: and now they changed it, and now you're mad about it.
33:14
Speaker 1: I think they want to be proven correct. I think
33:18
Speaker 1: they're like a lot of them are really angry because
33:21
Speaker 1: they think that Ellie was characterized much as I said,
33:27
Speaker 1: much nicer, Like everybody's kind of a gentler characterization of
33:32
Speaker 1: themselves in the show than they are in the game,
33:34
Speaker 1: at least on the front. And I think they were
33:38
Speaker 1: mad because they were like, no, I want you to
33:40
Speaker 1: do what they did in the game so I could
33:42
Speaker 1: be like, see, see how terrible it is. And I
33:47
Speaker 1: have been really disappointed in a lot of women who
33:52
Speaker 1: are mad both that Pedro Pascal got killed off, which
33:58
Speaker 1: I get at her, at Ellie because they're usually they
34:04
Speaker 1: say she's an ungrateful or something like that, which it's
34:08
Speaker 1: I get you're supposed to. All the characters in the
34:10
Speaker 1: Last of Us are complicated, like there are at times
34:14
Speaker 1: when I was angry at Ellie too, but I don't
34:21
Speaker 1: think we're giving like a fair shape to what happens
34:28
Speaker 1: and why she was angry and how young she is
34:31
Speaker 1: and all of that stuff, and I get it because
34:34
Speaker 1: Joel's Pimpedro Pascal is so nice and when scenes we
34:39
Speaker 1: see with them together are very sweet, but I think
34:43
Speaker 1: we have to take in the reality of it. And
34:46
Speaker 1: some people have complained that I'm too forgiving to Ellie
34:53
Speaker 1: and Abby and not enough to Joel, and I don't
34:55
Speaker 1: think that's true at all. I think I'm just more
34:57
Speaker 1: vocal about Abby and Ellie because Joel doesn't need it.
35:03
Speaker 1: Joel does not need my protection because people generally are
35:08
Speaker 1: on his side, and I get why, and I like
35:12
Speaker 1: him as a character, but I also just think we
35:15
Speaker 1: have to take in the realities of who he is
35:19
Speaker 1: if we're going to take in the realities of everybody
35:22
Speaker 1: else and the reality of what he did. And you
35:27
Speaker 1: can come out on either side of that whatever however
35:31
Speaker 1: you feel about it, but I just don't. I feel
35:35
Speaker 1: like we're not giving a lot of the women characters
35:39
Speaker 1: the same space and that if you don't mind potentially
35:45
Speaker 1: being spoiled. Is something that we talked about in our
35:47
Speaker 1: Women in Survival Horror Games episode and how I felt
35:51
Speaker 1: like women in Revenge we don't give them the same
35:58
Speaker 1: space that we do men in Revenge and I mean
36:05
Speaker 1: that's part of the complication as well, is that Joel's
36:08
Speaker 1: story is sort of a I don't know, I guess
36:15
Speaker 1: some people would call it like a he a rescue story,
36:18
Speaker 1: like he's protecting this young girl, and then almost kind
36:24
Speaker 1: of a redemption story. But I think we talked about
36:29
Speaker 1: that who gets redemption as well and our women in
36:32
Speaker 1: Forgiveness episode who do we allow these redemption arcs? And
36:36
Speaker 1: who do we not? So all that to say, I
36:41
Speaker 1: was not surprised, and I, to be honest with you,
36:45
Speaker 1: didn't engage in it at all. I haven't been on
36:50
Speaker 1: social media in a long time, and this is one
36:54
Speaker 1: of the reasons. A lot of the fandoms I love
36:57
Speaker 1: are very toxic, and I just don't It wasn't a
37:04
Speaker 1: good use of my energy. So I knew it was
37:12
Speaker 1: going to happen. I knew it was happening, but I
37:15
Speaker 1: kind of distance myself from it, like I didn't want
37:19
Speaker 1: that to kind of taint my experience. But I know
37:21
Speaker 1: it was huge. I've gotten Google alerts about it because
37:27
Speaker 1: every they all know I love the Last of Us,
37:31
Speaker 1: so I get updates about it, and you know, even
37:34
Speaker 1: the creators said, we know people are going to be mad,
37:38
Speaker 1: and they've had to release several statements lately about it.
37:42
Speaker 1: But they also were like, this is the story and
37:45
Speaker 1: we don't want to we don't want to compromise on it.
37:51
Speaker 1: And I'm glad they didn't because I love the story.
37:53
Speaker 1: But it does suck because it is something that people
37:58
Speaker 1: put a lot of hard work into you, and in
38:01
Speaker 1: this case, we're getting two main casting backlashes, which is
38:07
Speaker 1: Bella Ramsey and Caitlyn Deaver Ellien Abbey. I honestly, I
38:14
Speaker 1: think they both did a wonderful job. There's I don't.
38:18
Speaker 1: There's no part of me that it's like this is miscast.
38:21
Speaker 1: But I did read some interesting articles about Bella Ramsey
38:24
Speaker 1: being quote miscast and how it actually creates an interesting opportunity.
38:30
Speaker 1: From what I can gather, most of these arguments are physical.
38:33
Speaker 1: They're all about appearance, and again, I just feel like
38:37
Speaker 1: if you're pretty close to the character, then I don't
38:45
Speaker 1: I don't care for doing a good at acting job
38:47
Speaker 1: and the characters being created and being cared for. I
38:53
Speaker 1: don't really care. But honestly, most of it and people
38:57
Speaker 1: you can write in and correct me if I'm wrong,
38:59
Speaker 1: because a lot of the like I said is very hateful,
39:02
Speaker 1: and I've been avoiding it, like purposefully avoiding it because
39:07
Speaker 1: I've heard it. I heard it when the game came out,
39:09
Speaker 1: and I just didn't want to. I don't want to
39:12
Speaker 1: deal with it. But from what I can tell, it's
39:16
Speaker 1: mostly about physicality, and like I said, people are a
39:20
Speaker 1: little they're annoyed that they I think they feel like
39:25
Speaker 1: they're the characterizations of Appy and Ellie are quote nicer,
39:31
Speaker 1: which I think that there's a lot of reasons why
39:37
Speaker 1: that might be, but one of them is just the
39:40
Speaker 1: the way show, the media of a show works versus
39:44
Speaker 1: the media of a game. But also they knew there
39:47
Speaker 1: was going to be this huge backlash so they were
39:50
Speaker 1: trying to preempt it in some ways. And as I said,
39:54
Speaker 1: they on their next game, Naughty Dog's Next game, which
39:58
Speaker 1: is the studio behind the last, but they even have
40:01
Speaker 1: a boot camp for dealing with this kind of which
40:04
Speaker 1: is so unfortunate. I'm glad that they're like taking steps,
40:10
Speaker 1: but I hate that that's a thing at all. And
40:15
Speaker 1: then one of the things listener Margaret brought up too
40:19
Speaker 1: is that they're trying to be like so many people
40:22
Speaker 1: stopped watching after Joel died which is possible. There's been
40:27
Speaker 1: like a lot of mixed, mixed news reports about that,
40:33
Speaker 1: and actually, surprisingly, streaming services are real cagy about how
40:37
Speaker 1: much how many people are watching their shows. And I
40:41
Speaker 1: think two years ago there was a whole like push
40:45
Speaker 1: to get Netflix in particular, to release their data.
40:49
Speaker 2: Didn't they do a whole like lawsuit trying to hire
40:52
Speaker 2: their data or at least because they were doing something
40:55
Speaker 2: really yeah, like that's not right and they were counting
40:58
Speaker 2: like barely seconds type of thing.
41:00
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so, and you know, to be honest, we
41:04
Speaker 1: can speak to that, yes, podcasters. Yeah, well, because that
41:11
Speaker 1: they constantly are changing how they calculate what counts as
41:15
Speaker 1: a listener, what counts as a watch. So I mean again,
41:19
Speaker 1: I would just say take these things with a grain
41:20
Speaker 1: of salts. I know, HBO released a statement about it
41:25
Speaker 1: and they were like, nah, we're good, but who knows.
41:27
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't be surprised, But I'm also like,
41:32
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised if it's being way over exaggerated.
41:37
Speaker 1: Are just not true at all, or they don't have
41:42
Speaker 1: they have no idea, because honestly, I tried to look
41:44
Speaker 1: into it and I just found so many different things,
41:47
Speaker 1: so who knows. I know it's it's kind of hard
41:53
Speaker 1: to avoid if you're if you're on social media. I
41:58
Speaker 1: just know it's hard to avoid. But I would suggests
42:00
Speaker 1: like a lot of that is blown up. A lot
42:03
Speaker 1: of that is like Echo Chamber. It exists, one thousand percent.
42:10
Speaker 1: It exists, and it's not small, but it's not as
42:13
Speaker 1: big as I think people are making it out to be.
42:16
Speaker 1: Like I said, the game is like sold more than
42:18
Speaker 1: almost any game like it's I wish it would go away.
42:25
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of things I could do. I
42:27
Speaker 1: don't know, need to whole different internet landscape, I guess,
42:32
Speaker 1: but I just take things with this knowledge in hand
42:39
Speaker 1: that they want you to think everyone hates it, and
42:43
Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you that it's not true and
42:46
Speaker 1: I am not alone. So yes, anyway, I hope that
42:53
Speaker 1: kind of answers question. I could have looked into it
42:58
Speaker 1: like Bore specifically, maybe I will in the future, but
43:01
Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't want to deal with
43:02
Speaker 1: these I don't want to. I just don't think it's
43:11
Speaker 1: I know why it's gotten so much hate. They think
43:12
Speaker 1: it's it's woke and they're mad about Joel and they're
43:19
Speaker 1: really angry about the LGBTQ plus representation, So I guess
43:27
Speaker 1: I just wasn't surprised. We did talk about it a
43:31
Speaker 1: little bit, I think in the episode episode seven, no
43:36
Speaker 1: episode five, if you want to hear more about it.
43:39
Speaker 1: But that's kind of why I know it's a big deal,
43:42
Speaker 1: but that's kind of why we didn't really bring it
43:44
Speaker 1: up that much other than that episode. But yeah, I
43:49
Speaker 1: do recommend that documentary if you're curious grounded on to
43:53
Speaker 1: find it on YouTube. Also, I think that kind of enclosing,
44:09
Speaker 1: as I said, my dad had died not too long
44:14
Speaker 1: before this, after this came out, before this came out,
44:19
Speaker 1: and I think when I watch it and when I
44:25
Speaker 1: play it, it's so interesting to me because it does
44:30
Speaker 1: feel like I'm processing grief and that's the power of
44:37
Speaker 1: good storytelling and kind of all the things, the phases
44:42
Speaker 1: that you go through, and how devastating and destructive some
44:51
Speaker 1: of them can be. Even before, because our relationship had
44:56
Speaker 1: deteriorated so poorly, I started saying things to him that
45:01
Speaker 1: I meant to hurt meant to hurt him, and you know,
45:05
Speaker 1: you look back and you're like, wow, I wish I'd
45:10
Speaker 1: never said that one. But so when I maybe that's
45:15
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'm so sympathetic to Ellie when
45:18
Speaker 1: she is being a brat, Like I get it, you
45:22
Speaker 1: kind of lash out in these ways, especially if there's
45:25
Speaker 1: like a secret no one's talking about, or at least
45:29
Speaker 1: specifically in this case, which was what was going on.
45:34
Speaker 1: And then you're going to see on Abby's side, what
45:38
Speaker 1: I think is actually a really great representation of healing
45:43
Speaker 1: from trauma. Again, it's so hard to talk about this
45:47
Speaker 1: without spoiling anything, but just just that they have a
45:50
Speaker 1: good visual that they use that I think I can't
45:55
Speaker 1: wait to talk about. But this does bring us to
46:00
Speaker 1: a little bonus. It's a little bit of a downer
46:03
Speaker 1: as well, but it is Father's Day coming up. I
46:08
Speaker 1: often joke about how I have like these sad traditions
46:14
Speaker 1: around Father's Day. Anyone who's suffering, I know it stuff,
46:18
Speaker 1: and I make light of things. That's just how I
46:19
Speaker 1: deal with it. So I understand it's really difficult, but
46:24
Speaker 1: I find it really I was thinking about this because
46:28
Speaker 1: my well, my dad died. My hyperfixation was on how
46:33
Speaker 1: to train your dragon. I have no idea where that
46:36
Speaker 1: came from. We had no connection over this. I don't
46:40
Speaker 1: even know if he'd seen it, but it just happened
46:43
Speaker 1: and it became like my whole life. For months, I
46:48
Speaker 1: read all the books, I watch all the shows, all
46:50
Speaker 1: the movies people got me like how to Train Your
46:53
Speaker 1: Dragon gifts, I went as Hiccup to Dragon con like
46:57
Speaker 1: it was my whole life. And then it's just one
47:05
Speaker 1: day went way, which is how a lot of hyperfixation works.
47:09
Speaker 1: But the live action movie is coming out, which by
47:12
Speaker 1: the way, has Nico Parker, who is Joel's daughter Sarah
47:17
Speaker 1: and the Last of Us connections connections, and people have
47:21
Speaker 1: been asking me, are you going to see it? And
47:22
Speaker 1: I'm like, I want to see it, but I'm so
47:24
Speaker 1: associated with my dad's death now, so I have to
47:29
Speaker 1: be in a good place. But it's really funny to
47:31
Speaker 1: me that I don't associate the Last of Us two
47:35
Speaker 1: with my dad's death, even though all the time I'm
47:38
Speaker 1: thinking about, like, I get why this game resonated with
47:44
Speaker 1: me so much when it came out. But that brings
47:48
Speaker 1: us to the sad fact How to Train Your Dragon
47:52
Speaker 1: fandom is somehow sharing itself a part two, and it's
48:01
Speaker 1: mostly because basically they cast a black woman. Oh, I mean,
48:06
Speaker 1: I don't know, that's my opinion, but they're saying like
48:09
Speaker 1: it's not historically accurate or whatever, and I just don't
48:13
Speaker 1: again why.
48:14
Speaker 2: Because dragons obviously accurate training them.
48:19
Speaker 1: Yes, So it's just I'm like, why can't why can't
48:23
Speaker 1: you just stop it? Just stop it if you don't
48:27
Speaker 1: like it, you don't like it, but you don't have
48:28
Speaker 1: to do this.
48:30
Speaker 2: Some peoples hobbies is just hate, make some joy to fight,
48:35
Speaker 2: give them some kind of adrenaline.
48:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I will say that I have a
48:42
Speaker 1: friend like that, and I do avoid a lot of
48:45
Speaker 1: conversations about things like this with with them, But I
48:48
Speaker 1: also have I've had a couple of friends I've said,
48:52
Speaker 1: we're When I told them that the last of us
48:55
Speaker 1: whoose my favorite game? They're like, oh, I hate it
48:56
Speaker 1: for X, Y and Z. And I was like, play
48:58
Speaker 1: it again, and they did. And then neighb are like,
49:01
Speaker 1: you know, okay, you were right because it's so jarring
49:05
Speaker 1: the first time. It really really is, just because you
49:09
Speaker 1: have this anticipation of where the story is going to
49:11
Speaker 1: go and then it doesn't go that way at all,
49:14
Speaker 1: and it's shocking, and so you kind of are like constantly.
49:19
Speaker 1: When I remember when you first turned to Abby, I
49:22
Speaker 1: kept thinking, when am we gonna turn back when? And
49:26
Speaker 1: they were like nope, like no, But then I loved it,
49:31
Speaker 1: like I go, but you have to kind of have
49:32
Speaker 1: that moment of like, Okay, I have to accept this,
49:36
Speaker 1: And I did say when I did the I think
49:42
Speaker 1: it was when the newest version came out of the
49:46
Speaker 1: game and I was talking about empathy and how I
49:50
Speaker 1: found it really interesting that most of my women friends
49:54
Speaker 1: who have played it have come to a very empathetic place,
49:59
Speaker 1: and most of the men I see online who are
50:02
Speaker 1: mad neverver ever even think about empathy, are like, no
50:12
Speaker 1: way will I ever see this from this another person's
50:16
Speaker 1: point of view ever. But the point being that sometimes
50:21
Speaker 1: I have had some people in my life who were
50:25
Speaker 1: real mad about Last of Us too. Then I just
50:28
Speaker 1: was like, nope, go play it, and now they've kind
50:34
Speaker 1: of backed off. So I hope that there are some
50:37
Speaker 1: people online like that. But I do think you're right
50:39
Speaker 1: that there's some people that are just they just want
50:42
Speaker 1: to piss people off. They want to see that those
50:47
Speaker 1: angry replies are people who agree with them, And I
50:52
Speaker 1: do think a lot of it is about wanting to
50:55
Speaker 1: get people agree that you are right. They should never
50:58
Speaker 1: have done this with the Last of Us too, And
51:01
Speaker 1: in fact, the voice actor Troy Baker, who played Joel,
51:07
Speaker 1: has done and in interviews he said he gets really
51:10
Speaker 1: frustrated because people come up to him and they were like,
51:13
Speaker 1: it was so wrong what they did to you. They
51:16
Speaker 1: never should have done that. And his go to question is,
51:21
Speaker 1: then tell me a better story. What's the story you're
51:24
Speaker 1: going to tell? And he says, they never have it answered.
51:28
Speaker 1: And even my mom she kind of jokingly was like,
51:32
Speaker 1: how could they do that to patri Pascal. He basically
51:38
Speaker 1: she's sort of saying like he needs a job, and
51:40
Speaker 1: I'm like, he's everywhere.
51:42
Speaker 2: He purposely picked this because he knew he was going
51:44
Speaker 2: to die.
51:45
Speaker 1: That's all I think.
51:46
Speaker 2: I think said that he said I read the script,
51:48
Speaker 2: I died.
51:50
Speaker 1: Right, because I think and I know it's still sad.
51:54
Speaker 1: He's still sad to have lost like a character that
51:57
Speaker 1: he cared about. But I think he's probably nice as
51:59
Speaker 1: an actor to be like, Okay, I know when I'm
52:01
Speaker 1: out and I can do these different projects, I can
52:03
Speaker 1: mind up and guess what he's in a Marble movie.
52:06
Speaker 1: He's got like four other movies out right now. He's fine.
52:11
Speaker 2: He's fine, he doesn't care. He knew what he was
52:14
Speaker 2: getting into and he liked it.
52:17
Speaker 1: He did. And I mean, if we're gonna talk about
52:20
Speaker 1: like character differences, he definitely, like I said in one
52:26
Speaker 1: of the I think episode six, it was interesting to
52:29
Speaker 1: hear him who's never played the game, talk about how
52:32
Speaker 1: he views Joel, and I was like, Oh, I like this.
52:36
Speaker 1: It's definitely not how I view It's a much nicer take.
52:42
Speaker 1: But okay, I've just rambled so long. It was supposed
52:47
Speaker 1: to be a question and answer, and then I just
52:50
Speaker 1: went on.
52:50
Speaker 2: She did an out line, y'all. I didn't have any
52:52
Speaker 2: questions because she did an outline. Oh she's prepared. I'm good.
52:57
Speaker 1: If I see an outline. She's got a thought process.
53:01
Speaker 1: I have so many thoughts, and I'm sure, like this
53:05
Speaker 1: will be it for a while, but I'm sure I'll
53:07
Speaker 1: come back and have more thoughts and we'll talk more
53:10
Speaker 1: about the toxic fandom part of it. But for now,
53:15
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you to the listeners
53:17
Speaker 1: who have written in and have been supportive, and I
53:20
Speaker 1: love how many of you are like I get this
53:22
Speaker 1: Joel thing. But Bella Ramsey's right there. Like, I love
53:27
Speaker 1: how many of you are being very supportive of these characters. Yes,
53:32
Speaker 1: who gets so much online hate? So thank you and
53:36
Speaker 1: I love hearing from you. And if you email me
53:39
Speaker 1: about it, I will send you along email in response
53:42
Speaker 1: about my thoughts, so be prepared, be prepared. But all right,
53:47
Speaker 1: that's it for now. If you would like to email us,
53:51
Speaker 1: you can. You can email us at Hello at stuff
53:53
Speaker 1: iever Told You dot com. You can also find us
53:55
Speaker 1: on Blue Sky also a podcast, or on Instagram and
53:57
Speaker 1: TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You for us on YouTube,
54:00
Speaker 1: tea public store, and we have a book you can
54:01
Speaker 1: get wherever you get your books things. As always too
54:04
Speaker 1: our super reduced Christina expect to producer My and your
54:06
Speaker 1: contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for listening
54:09
Speaker 1: Stuff I Never Told You production by Heart Radio. For
54:10
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out
54:12
Speaker 1: the Heart Radio ap Apple Podcasts or where you listen
54:14
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows