Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Unlocking Ethereum's Potential with Flow🚀 Dapper Labs CEO INTERVIEW

Transcript

Unlocking Ethereum's Potential with Flow🚀 Dapper Labs CEO INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Today we'll be diving into a little bit about what's
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: happening in the update of what's going on with Flow,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: but also how this could affect the Ethereum ecosystem. My
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: name is Paul Berrel. Welcome back into tech path. Let's
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: get into it today. Do you want to thank our
• 0:16
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• 0:52
  Speaker 1: of that. So joining us today is Roham Gara Goslow,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: who is the CEO of Dapper Labs. Coming in.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: How are you Rob I'm doing it amazing. Thanks for
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: having me, excellent.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: So I want to jump into a few points that
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: we've been talking about here on the show for some time.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: We had the axel Our team on not too long ago.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: They did the big announcement of what's going on. We
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: tweeted about this Flow becomes a first chain to have
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: full interoperability across seventy chains, all of this powered now
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: by the Axlar stack. So what does this really mean, Roham?
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, give me what this means for the flow ecosystem.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Obviously you guys writing very heavily in there.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean what it means for the flow
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: ecosystem and also for just the wider blockchain space is
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: that interoperability piece between the execution environmental flow and the
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: sort of financial assets, whether fungible and non fungible tokens
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: that live everywhere else. And so for most of tho's history,
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: it's been a chain that's been powering a lot of
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: sort of enterprise products like what we've built, a dapper,
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: like Ticketmaster, some other of our companies, but it hasn't
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: had that sort of interoperability with the wider space. That's
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: all changing starting with ACCELR, but also Layer zero and
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: other bridges that will help make sure that liquidity can
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: flow into and out of the network as easy as possible.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: This comes at a great time because we have a
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: slate of new DeFi protocols that are launching, new tokens
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: that are coming onto the network and sort of sends
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: the message that it doesn't matter where the asset lives,
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: the consumer should be able to bridge it in and
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: out of any execution environment and access the applications that
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: might live in those different blocks. So flow has always
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: been an application blockchain. You've been be able to build
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: consumer products here. Now you can bring and take out
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: financial assets really easily as well.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for some of our viewers that are watching this
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: right now and they're trying to figure out what is
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: dapper Labs, how does it kind of connect the dots here?
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Where is it being used? I see you have your
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: All Day hoodie on right there. So that's a good
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: example of some of the tool sets. Give me just
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: a quick rundown for people who are just coming into crypto.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I mean Dapper lobs. The mission since the
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: beginning has been to build products that real consumers can
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: use and that show off the benefits of crypto the technology,
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: rather than just launching speculative assets. So the company started
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: with Crypto Kids, which was the first NFT game. We
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: built the original NFT standard RC seven twenty one to
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: sort of power that. That was all on ethereum, and
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: since twenty twenty we created this new blockchain called Flow
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: and now it's open source, is decentralized, it's run by
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: a foundation, and lots of other builders are building on
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: top of it. But it also powers our core products,
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: which include NBA Top Shot, NFL ol Day, the Disney
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: Pinnacle product, which I hope we can talk a little
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: bit about, and the new Crypto Kits, which is live
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: on Telegram at the moment. It's a pretty exciting game
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: that now has a nearly quarter million user over quarter
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: million users fully organic encounting. So if your viewers haven't
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: tried it, it's a good good time to start.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: If I'm looking at your website and I see the
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: product integration, these are some big brands here that are
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: tied into this, which brings me to my question around community.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: And you look at the Flow community and I would
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: say there has been a little bit of a problem
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: in being able or at least from our opinion of
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: looking at the Flow community, why have we not been
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: able to see the Flow community kind of grow like
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: some of these others. If you look at Solana, even
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Avalanche to a certain extent, what do you think has
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: been the hole back?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: I think that interoperability piece has been a big part
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: of it, where even the Dapper products have kind of
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: been on an island onto themselves. And until today you
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: couldn't actually easily take assets in and out of the network.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: You know, today you can go into your Dapper products,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: connect to your Flow wallet, and have full non custodial
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: access to everything inside the Dapper products, whether it's the
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: NBA top shots, et cetera. You can bridge them in
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: and out of the wallet, bridge them in and out
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: of the network. And until recently, the network was also
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: not a EVM compatible which meant that anyone wanting to
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: build on the network had to had to create everything
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: in its own spoke programming language, but it was not
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: compatible with you know, things like open Sea or Metamass
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: and so forth. That's all changed as of late last
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: year the Crescendo upgrade, and that means that for developers
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: it's really easy to come to Flow, bring the same tooling,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: the same smart contracts, the same sort of base that
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: they have on other networks, launch it here with as
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: easily as you would on any other L two. And
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: so we've seen that pick up dramatically. I mean, even
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: since the ACCELR integration we've had, we've found hundreds of
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: thousands of new users come on board. I believe the
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: ten x increase in the transaction volume on the network.
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: We've showed up since the Crescendo upgrade to three eighth
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: Global Hackathon Singapore, Thailand and the most recent one in
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: San Francisco. And at all three, Flow was the number
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: one layer one chosen by developers. And so we just
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: hit an all time high developers building on the network.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: It's an all time high and Flow TVL Obviously price
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: action sort of determines the dollar impact of it. But
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: I think we're laying the foundations. The team is laying
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: the foundations for another big growth cycle. And you know,
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: we've always been focused on the long term here, as
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: in not just chasing the trends, but trying to create real,
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: uh real, a real platform that developers can build sustainable
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: applications on top of and that's been difficult, but I
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: think the foundation is set today and you're starting to
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: see it kind of pick up in the numbers.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Importantly, I think the products that that are, you know,
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: built by Dapper and the bigger companies are I think
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: going to be sort of sort of that anchor that
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: brings the mainstream consumer and then we have kind of
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: developers that can build things on top. So there's an
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: ai AH and hackathon this today, we'll be showing up
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: and forced to eat Denver, and I think we're getting
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: that community built up brick by brick.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Crescendo went live. This was back end of last year.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: So the fact that this has started to happen so quickly,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I mean it's just January. So you're talking about three
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: hackathons now rolling out with the Denver. That'll be a
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: big initiative. I think, how effective do you think that
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: will help? You're talking about, Yes, it's growing interest in developers,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: but do you feel like this is going to be
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: a long standing opportunity here for really kind of bringing
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: developers on, much like the eth ecosystem has done over
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: the last five years.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: Flow is a step function shift in what you can
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: do with crypto applications, and so you know, we've had Bitcoin,
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: we've had ethereum. Now it's been you know, year eleven
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: of the of the EVM, and flow is this sort
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: of new thing that lets you do things you couldn't
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: do previously, but it was sort of inaccessible. It's hard
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: to build on and once you build something on it,
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: your users had to change all their behaviors. That's the
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: part that's gone away. But all of the benefits of
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: flow still exists, and we think that it's going just
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: like you know, crypto Kitties and top Shot before it,
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: the slate of products that are kind of come out
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: in the next six and nine months are going to
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: change the public's perception of, hey, what is what can
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: crypto be used for? Not just launching meat coins, not
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: just sort of trading tokens, but also building products that
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: you know, add value on a day to data basis,
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: and those that value then creates even more opportunities for speculation.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: So you see kind of that wave continuing. So there's
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: no there's no denying that, hey, there's going to be
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: speculation and sort of digital assets that are volatile and
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: all that stuff. But I think there's there's we're just
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: scratching the surface of what you can build with decentralized
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: business logic, effectively smart contracts that kind of run in
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: the open. Today, the vast majority of smart contracts in
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: existence just either create a.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: New token or move a new token around.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: We think that there's much more scope for that that
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: people are starting to explore.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Who does this help more? You know, when you look
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: at the advancement that has happened now within the Flow ecosystem,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: obviously this means onboarding to the Ethereum ecosystem. Is this
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: better for Ethereum or is this better for Flow? You know,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: in terms of who benefits, Oh, I think.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: It's rising tides lift all boats. And of course Flow
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: is starting from a smaller base, so from it, if
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: you look at kind of a multiple basis, you know,
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: Flow has is just a baby and it's a new project.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: It kind of feels like a new project where there's
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: there's basically an interscale opportunity and how much we have
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: to build here. But when you look at Ethereum and
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: what's the next step for Ethereum, is it all of
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: these proliferation of L two's and every single application launching
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: their own tokens. How do you deal with the with
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: the lack of composibility between different environments, the crazy sort
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: of complexity that it adds for developers to now have
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: to launch a blockchain as well as manage their own
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: application build something people want, and and and we don't.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Think that's going to work.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: We've as a team that tried managing everything in one
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: structure and and sort of it took us years to
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: get to a blockchain that we're sort of proud of
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: and saying that that, you know, others can now find
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: it as a best in class solution to build on.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: We don't think that's the right approach. And so what
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: Flow does is it basically creates a new layer of
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: types of applications that exist in the crypto world. It
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: doesn't replace Bitcoin or ethereum. You can still mint access there,
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: you can bridge or bigcoin into flow, bridge your theorem
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: into flow thanks to ax lr and layer zero and
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: other similar solutions. But we can then provide utility and
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: help developers build new kinds of products for all of
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: those tokens that exist everywhere else. In addition to being
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: able to mintor tokens here so I think it makes
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: the pie bigger for everybody. Rising tide lifts all boats.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: But you know, it's it's no secret that I think
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: the most valuable cryptotoken ten years from now is going
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: to be the native currency of the blockchain, the network
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: that everybody.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Uses every day.
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's a sort of pre pre conceived
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: notion that a there's every single app is going to
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: have its own token or sorry, its own blockchain. I
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: do think that almost everything will have its own token,
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: but those tokens will want to be part of an
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: execution environment that everybody can build on and seamlessly composed
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: with those network effects that exist in every other platform
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: shift and layer of software aren't going to go away
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: just because we sort of want them to, And so
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Flow is built for that future. Build your asset anywhere,
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: build the application here, and if you build your application here,
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: it's compatible with anything else today, including your MENO mask
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: and all that stuff. I'm using Flow as much of
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: through my meta mask as through my flow.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Alat Okay, I'm looking at block nam in here. This
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: is a good statement. Flow has a potential scale beyond
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: one million transactions per second at maturity and to be
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: able to store up to petabytes of state data at
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: one tenth the hardware and energy size. So that's pretty
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: significant in terms of early scalability. For like you just mentioned,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: if you think about the future, what is it going
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: to look like it's going to write on one ecosystem
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: that's got the capacity to grow like that? I mean,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: that's pretty significant. Is this something that you feel is
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: even more scalable or is this kind of this is
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: the holy grail, this is what we've got to get to.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Well, well, I think that it'll scale beyond that just
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: based on sort of hardware improving. But I think that
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: if you look at how blockchains today are built, I mean,
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: in a little there's a little bit of analogy here
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: between chat GBT and deepsekr one, which is just being
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: more efficient at doing the computation is going to get
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: you so much, so much. Further, most blockchains are what's
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: known as monolithic as and they only have one note
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: type and it does all of the different components of
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: a given transaction, you know, collecting, organizing and then doing
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: the consensus and actually executing, whereas flow has kind of
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: divided that up into different different note types, and we
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: have multiple technical papers proving that it's actually much more
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: sure than at much much much lower cost because you're
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: only each note type only does the piece of work
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: that it has to do, and they basically do like
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: minimum viable kind of verification, but with mathematical proof of
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: why it's why, it's why it's fully secure, and why
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: we can get to faster finality than basically any chain
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: out there at scale. And so the architecture is built
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: to be hyper hyper efficient and from a sort of
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: developer standpoint, it's completely abstracted out, so developer doesn't need
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: to worry about, oh, I'm using this roll up or
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: of course in the future they could use state channels
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: and things like that get subsec and latency create a
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: super seamless user experience, but then someone else building on
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: top of them doesn't have to worry about that sort
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: of the complexity of where's the asset lives on. So
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: the whole philosophy has been create a platform that can
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: scale but also sort of hides the wires from both
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: the consumer as well as let's the developer focus on
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: what they should be focused on, which is building an
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: awesome app for real world users. You know, you see
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: every platform shift before, whether it's mobile, whether it's social,
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: whether it's the original kind of move to the web,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: Web one point oh, Web two point zero. The easier
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: you make it for developers to focus on the content
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: and basically the product that they're delivering rather than all
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: of the infrastructure.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: And the tooling and the sort.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: Of the crud that goes into providing that service, the
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: better products you get for real world consumers, the more
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: real world users onboard, and that's really when the platforms
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: sort of reach that step.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's you're exactly right, that's escape velocity,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and it's definitely working off of first principles, which is
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the problem I think that a lot of people have
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: been trying to solve on this leap from Web two
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to Web three. It's a problem we're trying to solve,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: you know, even here with our own media company. So
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: it has been a challenge I want to jump to.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: You know, when you look at the technology and what
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: we've seen with other chains, you have to look at,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: you know, what's happening within the base ecosystem. This is
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: a good example of growth dramatically here lots of users, okay,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: but then you look the is the tech more important
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: or is the community more important? In this world of
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: how these blockchains are going to break out? Which one
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: do you think wins?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: I think I think long term, the community is more important,
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: and so that that's why Flow started with this focus
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: on like exclusive content and working with the top brands
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: and and bringing kind of things that can't exist anywhere else.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: So that that's that's I think ultimately community wins above all.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: But then looking at the technology, to me, you know,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: things like Ethereum by itself feel like they're they're they're
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: perfect for certain use cases, just like you know, like
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: a BlackBerry smartphone was perfect for uh, you know, email,
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: web messaging, but in terms of building applications, you know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: I've got I've got gray hairs. I was around with
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: that first wave of sort of mobile smartphones were around,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: and we had obviously proliferation of certain kinds of devices,
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: whether it's BlackBerry, cancup, a pump pilot, et cetera, and
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: a really complex developer experience trying to build on top
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: of these smartphones and sort of sort of you know,
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: having to manage compatibility, manage interoperability, and the user experience
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: of using them was very niche, right, only insiders and
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: tech people, geeksac myself, you know, had the little stylist,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. What the iPhone did was make
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: the platform usable for the masses, but also make the
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: developer experience consistent so that you could build once and
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: have it actually delivered to the user the way you
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: kind of expected to. And that was a lot of
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: the philosophy from the Flow perspective is is look, everything
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: that Etheroereum has built is amazing, particularly for financial use cases.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: So if you're launching a token, if you've got a
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: DeFi kind of token moving machine, a lot of those products,
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: even on Flow are written in solidity and ported over
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: from from Ethereum and therefore a cross compatible with everything
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: that they built. But if you're trying to create something new,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: something additional on top, we we think you need to
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: take the next step of using actually a platform with
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: new features that didn't exist before. So to be clear,
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: Flow as a DM chain is still one of the
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: fastest and the most performant it runs. We benchmarked it
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: in production out over twenty five million gas, which is
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: more than basis target per per block, and so you
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: can fit more computation into a flow transaction even today,
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: even without using cadence or any of the sort of
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: advanced features and functionality, and so that just creates new
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: kinds of products. And so anytime you look at a
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: platform ship, there's going to be a new generation of
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: what's kind of a killer app that does something that
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: couldn't be done before. That's when it creates a rush
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: of people wanting to build that killer app in the
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: only place that it can be built. And in flows case,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: we think that, you know, if you're building a consumer
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: application that needs to scale massively but also is using
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: on chain logic and on chain storage in new and
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: innovative ways, there's simply no other place to do it
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: other than the flow. If you look at Solana, Ethereum,
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: et cetera vast majority of smart contracts are copies of each.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Other, their forks and modifications.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: And anytime someone kind of goes a little bit beyond
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: the resident, you know, kind of beyond the confines of
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: something known, it creates a lot of security vulnerabilities and
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: they have to get multiple audits, and even though they
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: get multiple audits, they get you know, potential for hacks
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: and things like that writing a smart contract at Dapper.
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: So Dapper's ran more smart contracts than almost any company
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: out there, and writing a smart contract used to be
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: this like arcane, kind of scary thing that only certain
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: of our developers had had the willingness to sort of
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: take on because it was very stressful. One mistake can
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: kind of cause loss of user funds, et cetera. Since
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: we've switched to Cadence for most of our work, it's
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: every single back end developer rights and edits smart contracts freely.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: The CEO of Constamp told me, hey, you guys are
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: going to put us out of a job because this
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: code is so easy to read, write an audit, and
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: so it just it's just reduced the fear of trying
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: new things. And so if you believe that crypto's done
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: and all it's for is creating tokens and moving tokens around,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: then you know we're done. The platforms that already exist
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: might suffice. But if you think that we're just scratching
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: the surface of what you can do with decentralized APIs
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: decentralized state storage having products that that kind of don't
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: take for granted that a user is a is kind
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: of the product, but I actually try to do something
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: where the user is using a public good. Then we're
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: just kind of scratching the surface and we're very excited
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: about what the future holds.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I got to ask the question. In this,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: of course we cover the the brand activations around the industry.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Of course McDonald's and Doodle's big brand coordination and collaboration.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Doodles of course now moving over to base from Flow.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: So you have a major project like Doodles making that shift.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: First of all, why and what was the reason behind this?
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Was there something there?
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: So love the Doodles. Seem big fan of Doodles, the
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: IP and everything they're trying to do. I still have
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: my my Doodles and really excited for the new direction
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: of Doodles, which is, you know, under new leadership and
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: uh and kind of bringing it back to its kind
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: of NFT or Web three roots. So this change happened
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: before the shipping of Crescendo. And as I mentioned before Crescendo,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: it was a taper environment to build on Flow because
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: you kind of had to be like that or you
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: had to have a full stack where.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: You know, you're bringing your own money. You're managing your own.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: Your own sort of financial rails, and it does make
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: it easier to deal with fiat payment methods, but it
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: makes it harder to be part of the sort of
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Web three, you know, the wider Web three world.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: So I think that that.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Has today has changed and who knows, maybe there's opportunities
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: for Flow. And you know, like I said, big fan
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: of that team. And again, when you look at teams
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: that are trying to do something new, that's the team
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: that's trying to do something new, trying to build products
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: that kind of change.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: People's items of Hey, what this technology.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: Is for, And we love that and I think they're
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: a great fit to to be on Flow.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: And look at rewards, Flow, I would say is maybe
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: one of the most innovative in terms of the rewards
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: back to members. And this is something to me when
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: you look at DeFi on Flow, which obviously now offering rewards.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Do you think we're going to see more of this
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: or is this something very unique to what you guys
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: are trying to do here.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: No, No, I think it's it's just starting.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: You know, it's just really scratching the surface the rewards
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: platform that you just shared was kind of almost like
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: an MVP that that was important to get out there.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I know the team's been working on.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: You know, how to create The point isn't just to
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: like hand out free money. The point is how to
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: nurture and create community and then show and move that
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: community into all of these different products flow. So you know,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: we just had a real world asset platform called BZ
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: launch there. In their first month there, they did more
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: transaction volume than Courtyard, which is the equivalent on a
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: first month.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh amazing.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: So we had the BZ team on talking about that.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: So that's a good example.
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good example. But it's again like all
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: starting to percolate because the bridges are just now going
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: a lot. You mentioned Axilar Layer zero comes this week.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I think by the time we're live, it'll be it'll
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: be deployed. We're going to have multiple stable coins already
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: have USDC bridge and also there's going to be a
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: stable point back by PayPal USD. There will be incentives
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: that are driven by a lot of these platforms coming in.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: There's institutional capital that's been waiting for the bridges to
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: be ready, so to bridge in these stable coins and
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: what they do though, DeFi on Flow is all about
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: laying that foundation so you can build different kinds of
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: products and applications on top and not have to sort of,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: you know, again, bring your own liquidity. There's going to
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: be liquidity on the on the network. There's going to
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: be folks that are launching native tokens on the network.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: It's going to be really easy to launch tokens on
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: multiple networks, for example. I should also mentioned the hyperline
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: Salona Bridge. You know, Flow is one of the first
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: secondary chains other than Solana to have the Trump token.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: There's farms now for folks to bring in their Trump
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: token and farm incentives and things like that. And again
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: that's all kind of it's a new advertising in a way, right.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: These new protocols are advertising these yields, bringing in that
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: initial capital, showing folks that the systems scale and they work,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: and if they continue to provide valuable services, then they
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: will continue to routine that liquidity and those users.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I know we're running a little bit long here, but
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: I want to hit on two key major brands that
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: could potentially be integrated here. Obviously, Disney Pinnacle. The announcement
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: you guys made which is almost a year and a
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: half ago. If you look at it, I think it
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: was late twenty three, and it's still not completely rolled out.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: What's the hold up here? Because Disney Pinnacle's got to
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: be ready to go.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: It is ready.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: We're actually running a big trading event this this weekend.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Look.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: Pinnacle is a product we built from scratch, trying to
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: take the learnings of NBA Top Shot and NFL all day.
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: It took a little bit longer than we wanted to
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: sort of get it in a position where it's, you know,
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: sharable for the outside world. And also it was important
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: to kind of take the market sentiment and environment into account,
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: and we really had to work to sort of tell
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: the story to the Disney fan to hey, look past
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: the fact that, you know, everybody has this negative pre
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: perception of NFTs. I remember I went to the Disney
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: d twenty three fan conference, which is their biggest fan
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: conference and they do it at once every two years,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: and I was standing in line at our booth talking
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: to folks and someone came up to me and said, these.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Aren't NFTs, are they?
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: And so we had to kind of like work past
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: a little bit of the public perception of Hey, I
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: want to collect things. I'm a huge Disney fan. But
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: I've heard NFTs are bad somehow, And I think that's
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: first of all, starting to shift, like we're starting to
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: get a big change from just in perceptions towards crypto
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: as I'm sure you've seen away from Hey, we don't
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: want it to wait a second, Trump is talking about it.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: I don't understand it. I need to understand it. And
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Dapper products have always been kind of that lightning rod
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: for you know, the crypto curios that doesn't they don't
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: want to necessarily just go speculate on tokens or you know,
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: invest investor gamble, but they want to use something that
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: that kind of benefits from the technology. And I think
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: Pinnacle is a great, great example. So we will get God.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: No, you were going to say a launch date, I
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: think yeah.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, the other struggle is we have you know,
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: a big, you know, world's largest IP partner, and and
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: we want to be very coordinated with how we talk
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: about launch plans. But I will say that it's it's
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: it's in the works and I'm excited to bring it
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: live in the.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: Next handful of months.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: And and but but the biggest thing is before it
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: will be launched, we have we have many opportunities for
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: folks to come engage. So if you go sign up
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: for the wait list, you're going to get invited faster
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: than you would before. We're gonna be there's community members
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: going to Disney parks, and if you go to places
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: where people trade physical pins, you might now see people
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: trading digital pins. And it's actually starting to kind of
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: percolate inside those super fan communities, which is really what
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: we want to see. There's the marketplace isn't fully live yet,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: it will be soon. We're trying to be careful of
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: like the balance between hey, the authentic fan and then
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: the speculative sort of interest that that of course exists.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: But I will say it's it's one of the things
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: I'm most excited about. And if people aren't in the
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: product yet, it's the it's the It's a product that
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: I think shows what Top Shot and All Day will
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: be eventually. In terms of just like the quality of
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: the collecting experience that the chasing sets all of that stuff,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: it feels very it feels web too in its in
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: it's sort of production quality.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: So ro I'm looking at Chipotle's website here and it says,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: you know, hey, you want to earn some Chipotle items.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Second eight, this is their integration. And I'm looking at
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: this and I'm thinking, this is a perfect major brand
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: that should just jump onto something like Flow. And what's
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: happening within this ecosystem It's lined up. You've got character
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: integration for NFTs, you've got Avatar integration, the potential for
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: a token they could be utilized. Why do you think
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: we haven't seen Chipotle or brands like this who already
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: seem to be thinking this way make the leap.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: Well, I think we I think the Flow teams, first
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: of all, the Dapper teams priority has has used to
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: be kind of big brands, but now we're just focusing
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: on NB NFL, Disney and then our own products, so
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: so crypto kitties, We're gonna bring out cheese wizards, Mikaela.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: We have our own stable of ips that that were
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: so dapper is no longer kind of chasing brands that
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: are the most advertising in nature. I think we have
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: we have big, big, big fish that we're excited about,
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: but we want to stay focused and now on the
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: Flow community. I think they're laser focused on developers and
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: the developers that are going to build the platforms that
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: all these creators are going to be able to use.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: So you know, for example, the future of meme coins
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: is a more analogous to Hey, Facebook pages or Reddit
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: groups are kind of like actual communities then you know,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: pumped up fund etc. We want to bring on board
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: that platform builder that has that vision to create tooling
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: that you know, every Live Nation artist or every athlete
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: or every major brand like you show Chipotle, McDonald's whatever
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: it is marketing manager in.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: And actually use.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Once we have that platform, then okay, amazing, bring those
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: brands to use that platform on top. And of course
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: there's some iteration in between. But we're not necessarily we
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: don't think that these kind of activations that are you know,
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: great social media announcements or pr but aren't necessarily deep
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: enough to kind of sustain engagement over time. And the
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: most famous one Starbucks, right like fantastic opportunity, but but
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: it wasn't you know, you got.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: To go kind of deep.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: And and that's why with NBA, NFL, Disney we are
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: we're sort of just behaving as if we're an embedded
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: part of those organizations and trying to build something that's
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: complete fan experience and and sort of once you have
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: a deep thing, then okay, you can platformize that let
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: others build on top. So so I'm sure you know,
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: if someone from Chipotle is watching this, happy to chat
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: with you and sort of help you get set up
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: on what the tooling that exists today. But much more importantly,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: I'm happy to have the kind of conversation that you know,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: we're going to have around sort of what does the
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: future hold and how do you kind of create something
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: that that is sustainable and last and isn't just a hey,
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: we we did a we did an announcement that people
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: came to pharma tooken and then it doesn't necessarily kind
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: of two three years from now, everyone's moved on to
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: something else, but we still have the liability, We still
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: have the thing right, but we don't want to you know, uh,
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: we're not going to disappear into the night.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: We're going to contain every point that's important to us.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: And hey, listen, this happened in social media when we
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: started to see social when brands would trust the idea
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: of letting their brand live outside an ecosystem that was
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: really in the wild West, so I think it could
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: happen in Web three for sure. Last question to you,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: do you see the NFT bill even being needed anymore?
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: You've got, you know, the President of the United States
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: out there with his own meme coin. Is this something
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: that is really required anymore? What's your thought on this?
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: It is?
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, the president of the United States enjoys
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: presidential immunity.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: The rest of us need to have.
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: Laws that we follow, and I think laws are written
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: by lawmakers, and so it's very important now the lawmakers
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: now have a lot of that kind of like support
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: from an air cover from the executive branch and you know,
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: the bully pulpit kind of saying these things and saying, hey,
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: and meme coins are collectibles. NFTs are collectibles. But someone
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: needs to go and put that into law. Someone needs
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: to ratify that law, and judges need to need to
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: sort of you know, approve that law or at least
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: you know, agreed to sort of agreed that it's constitutional.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: And so that's how the system works. And so it's
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: really important that we use this opportunity in the sort
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: of in the support of the executive branch to get
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: things through that kind of create that clarity and stable
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: foundation for everybody else to build one.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: And I don't.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Know where their hearts are for me or for support
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: them and uh and and at the end of the day, uh,
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: you know, these these these lawmakers, you know, Center Center,
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: Lumis and and many others, Richie Torres, et cetera, have
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: been engaged on this stuff. You know, I met with
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: Patrick McHenry and McHenry and d C just a few
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: months ago, and they're asking really good questions and now
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: they're in power to be able to actually make a difference.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: And I think on both sides of the aisle, there's
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: huge support for making sure America is a leader in
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: this space, like why why wouldn't we want that? Why
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: would we block American consumers? And by the way, I
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: hope Canada is going to follow suit. Sitting in Canada
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: today and we have not followed yet in terms of
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: kind of saying, hey, we're as open to this technology
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: as the United States is. But I think it's kind
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: of inevitable and it would be unfortunate to sort of
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: lose that lead.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Listen, Roham, it has been great having you on the
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: show today, very good stuff I think you guys are
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: doing over a Dappa lab. So we appreciate your time.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: We appreciate it. Thank you.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: All right, So you guys, if you're not in the
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Diamond Circle, get in our own group, and of course
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: you guys can join our Telegram group, which is a
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: closed group that I jump into and we'll communicate with
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: you people out there. And all you have to do
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: is just click the link down below. It's very easy
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: and it's free to get into that. So do that
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: or follow me out there on x at Paul Baron.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time right here on tech Path