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FridAI Building an AI Harness · Business Brain – The Entrepreneurs’ Podcast

• 0:00
  Dave Hamilton: Business Brain, episode 791 for Casual Friday AI, September 25th,
• 0:06
  Dave Hamilton: One Hit Wonder Day, 2026.
• 0:10
  Dave Hamilton: Do you have a favorite one hit wonder, Shannon?
• 0:13
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, what's that one? I can't remember the name of it. Of course, I have a bunch of them.
• 0:20
  Dave Hamilton: Okay.
• 0:21
  Shannon Jean: But I can't remember the name of the one that I really like.
• 0:23
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, the one that comes to mind for me is Come On Eileen from Dexy's Midnight Runners.
• 0:29
  Dave Hamilton: Like that you know that's that's there for sure uh if we're gonna stick with
• 0:33
  Dave Hamilton: that same decade i'd go with um tainted love which.
• 0:39
  Shannon Jean: Is that's another good
• 0:40
  Dave Hamilton: One interesting because everybody thinks that tainted love was written by soft
• 0:44
  Dave Hamilton: sell there was actually a cover so they didn't even write their one hit wonder that was,
• 0:50
  Dave Hamilton: uh it was glorious somebody or other uh that that that wrote that and released it originally i can.
• 0:55
  Shannon Jean: Hear the the rhythm and the and the words of the song in my head as I'm thinking
• 0:58
  Shannon Jean: of, but I can't think of the name.
• 0:59
  Dave Hamilton: Okay. But I mean, there's, there's Tommy two-tone, right? Jenny, Jenny.
• 1:03
  Shannon Jean: A lot of good stuff.
• 1:04
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. I mean, yeah. There's like, they call them one hit wonders for a reason
• 1:08
  Dave Hamilton: because there's a hit. Like it's. Yeah.
• 1:11
  Shannon Jean: I think they're more popular now than they may have ever been because it's so
• 1:15
  Shannon Jean: much more accessible to create content and music.
• 1:19
  Dave Hamilton: Maybe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's a, it's an interesting thing.
• 1:23
  Dave Hamilton: Like here's a, like to tie it into business. Yeah.
• 1:27
  Dave Hamilton: A lot of those people, like Tommy Two-Tone, I saw Tommy Two-Tone on a tour last summer.
• 1:36
  Dave Hamilton: It was him and Rick Springfield and somebody else, and I can't remember who
• 1:42
  Dave Hamilton: somebody else was. I think Rick Springfield was the headliner of that show.
• 1:47
  Dave Hamilton: But, like, that's a business. One hit.
• 1:52
  Shannon Jean: Oh, yeah. That'll pay your mortgage, right?
• 1:55
  Dave Hamilton: If you leverage it correctly, yeah.
• 1:58
  Shannon Jean: The song I'm thinking of is called Bittersweet Symphony by The Verve.
• 2:01
  Dave Hamilton: Oh, by The Verve. Oh, well.
• 2:02
  Shannon Jean: Great song.
• 2:03
  Dave Hamilton: Interesting story about that song is they sampled, it's a Rolling Stones song.
• 2:12
  Dave Hamilton: They didn't just take the chord structure of it or something.
• 2:15
  Dave Hamilton: They literally sampled the choir from, I want to say Wild Horses,
• 2:21
  Dave Hamilton: and the Stones sued them.
• 2:22
  Dave Hamilton: And so richard ashcroft who is the uh the like the the chief songwriter i think
• 2:28
  Dave Hamilton: i have all this right i'm just pulling it out of my you know who knows where
• 2:32
  Dave Hamilton: so i probably am making half it up but i don't think nobody's.
• 2:34
  Shannon Jean: Gonna nobody's gonna fact
• 2:35
  Dave Hamilton: Check you here oh i'm definitely gonna be fact checked it's how it works um,
• 2:39
  Dave Hamilton: never do public math you know uh is um,
• 2:43
  Dave Hamilton: he they they they basically made it so that he couldn't make money from that
• 2:48
  Dave Hamilton: song for the longest time and then had a change of heart and they turned.
• 2:52
  Shannon Jean: It over to
• 2:52
  Dave Hamilton: Him making keith turned it over to him and we're like you know what man let's take it it's fine yeah.
• 2:58
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, I remember hearing that story as well.
• 3:02
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah.
• 3:03
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. That's cool.
• 3:04
  Dave Hamilton: That's good. I can't remember what the song was. So this I am going to actually look up.
• 3:10
  Shannon Jean: Let's find it.
• 3:11
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, I'll find it. But in,
• 3:15
  Dave Hamilton: the last time, which is funny because it's a song I heard last time.
• 3:18
  Dave Hamilton: This would be the last time, baby. That song.
• 3:22
  Dave Hamilton: So that's the one that they sampled from that.
• 3:26
  Shannon Jean: Interesting. That's cool. Well, happy Friday, I.
• 3:28
  Dave Hamilton: Happy Friday, I. Business Brain is the show where we take ideas and crunch them
• 3:33
  Dave Hamilton: and learn things from them to level up our charmed lives, tune our business brains.
• 3:38
  Dave Hamilton: And Friday, I is when we do that with a focus on AI.
• 3:41
  Dave Hamilton: Our sponsors for this episode are Perplexity Computer, which is fitting for Friday.
• 3:47
  Dave Hamilton: At pplx.ai slash brain where you can start a free trial of perplexity computer
• 3:54
  Dave Hamilton: and keepersecurity.com slash brain where you can get 60% off their personal
• 3:58
  Dave Hamilton: and family plans. We'll talk more about that in a little bit.
• 4:04
  Shannon Jean: What are we talking about? You mentioned a term that I wanted to revisit.
• 4:08
  Shannon Jean: You talked about building a harness.
• 4:10
  Shannon Jean: So I want to talk about that. And then I want to talk Talk about a new AI we're
• 4:14
  Shannon Jean: both using that is a harness. Yeah.
• 4:16
  Shannon Jean: Right. So talk about that and let's dig into the harness concept.
• 4:22
  Dave Hamilton: Right. So a harness in the AI world is we've talked about this before when we've
• 4:29
  Dave Hamilton: discussed like, and I'll use, you know, like Anthropic as the example because it's somewhat easier.
• 4:37
  Dave Hamilton: I'd use Perplexity because they're one of our sponsors for this episode,
• 4:39
  Dave Hamilton: but they're a little different. Although they are also a harness,
• 4:43
  Dave Hamilton: kind of in the classic sense. But –,
• 4:46
  Dave Hamilton: Go with my Anthropic thing here. So we know that with Anthropic,
• 4:51
  Dave Hamilton: we have different models. We have Opus, Sonnet,
• 4:57
  Dave Hamilton: and Fable, and Haiku, right? And those are the models.
• 5:01
  Dave Hamilton: And then there is an app called Claude. The company's name is Anthropic.
• 5:07
  Dave Hamilton: What is Claude? We've always talked about Claude as the client app that lets
• 5:11
  Dave Hamilton: you access those models.
• 5:14
  Dave Hamilton: That client app is the harness that's what that means and it it's okay it's
• 5:20
  Dave Hamilton: taking what you're doing and packaging it up and sending it to the llm,
• 5:26
  Dave Hamilton: when we talk about like the memory of something and how oh you know well this
• 5:30
  Dave Hamilton: one is good at really good at like maintaining context.
• 5:35
  Dave Hamilton: That context is not stored in the model. The models are static.
• 5:40
  Dave Hamilton: I know they keep evolving them, but like, you know, when Opus 5 came out,
• 5:45
  Dave Hamilton: that's a static model. It doesn't learn anything new.
• 5:49
  Dave Hamilton: The next version of Opus will incorporate all the new things that they learn, right?
• 5:54
  Dave Hamilton: But the current Opus 5, if you used it a week ago and use it today,
• 5:58
  Dave Hamilton: assuming they haven't changed anything,
• 5:59
  Dave Hamilton: and we're going to just make that assumption, it has learned nothing.
• 6:03
  Dave Hamilton: Thing it's the same every time it doesn't know you it doesn't know anything
• 6:08
  Dave Hamilton: about what you're talking to talk you know about the subject that you're talking
• 6:11
  Dave Hamilton: to it about the harness the app that you're using to interface with the model,
• 6:17
  Dave Hamilton: is where all that comes from and i know that it's.
• 6:22
  Dave Hamilton: Well i will say this i found it very easy to take the concept of a harness for
• 6:27
  Dave Hamilton: granted i know we always said like,
• 6:29
  Dave Hamilton: the model is great but the app matters and it definitely does because the app
• 6:33
  Dave Hamilton: is where all of that context is packaged it's not just stored it's packaged
• 6:38
  Dave Hamilton: with every single query you send,
• 6:41
  Dave Hamilton: it's repackaging all of your context for that session and sending it along every single query Right.
• 6:49
  Dave Hamilton: And it turns out that building a harness is one of the most difficult things to do.
• 6:58
  Dave Hamilton: I I built a very single purpose harness. I didn't really realize what I was
• 7:04
  Dave Hamilton: doing. I didn't think about it. I mean, if I had, I would have thought,
• 7:06
  Dave Hamilton: well, yeah, of course, you're building a harness.
• 7:08
  Dave Hamilton: We have an app and an engine that we use. We call it Podman short for podcast manager.
• 7:14
  Dave Hamilton: It's the thing that manages the schedules and for all of the podcast ads that
• 7:19
  Dave Hamilton: we do all across BackBeat Media and,
• 7:22
  Dave Hamilton: And it has like that we get talking points from our sponsors,
• 7:26
  Dave Hamilton: you know, with that list, the things that we're supposed to talk about and like
• 7:29
  Dave Hamilton: the call to action where we say and visit, you know, PPLX dot AI slash brain. Right. Yep.
• 7:34
  Dave Hamilton: That's all in these talking points. And years ago, I realized I was producing
• 7:39
  Dave Hamilton: them the same way every time from the same talking points. The ads all sounded
• 7:42
  Dave Hamilton: the same, even though I was doing new ones. They all sounded the same.
• 7:45
  Dave Hamilton: So I started feeding them into, at the time, ChatGPT and then Claude and Perplexity
• 7:50
  Dave Hamilton: and like, you know, whatever one I was using at the time. It doesn't matter.
• 7:53
  Dave Hamilton: And I thought, well, wouldn't it be great if we didn't make our shows do that,
• 7:57
  Dave Hamilton: if we just had a button that you could click? Because all the data is in Podman, right? Why not?
• 8:03
  Shannon Jean: Provided by the sponsor,
• 8:05
  Dave Hamilton: Right? Provided by the sponsor. We've already vetted it. Everything's right there.
• 8:08
  Dave Hamilton: What if we just gave them a button they could click that would write them an
• 8:11
  Dave Hamilton: ad script based on all of that?
• 8:15
  Dave Hamilton: And so I did. Now, obviously I used the help of AI to, to build this cause it's
• 8:20
  Dave Hamilton: software and that's how it goes.
• 8:22
  Dave Hamilton: And it took, you know, 20 minutes to 30 minutes, maybe to, to build the first iteration of this.
• 8:30
  Dave Hamilton: And the output was awful. And I was using, I was using API tokens with Opus
• 8:37
  Dave Hamilton: to do this. Right. So like, you know, fairly expensive frontier model. Yeah.
• 8:43
  Dave Hamilton: And the output was terrible and it was like well we got it what do you what's
• 8:47
  Dave Hamilton: the prompt that you're sending oh my gosh we got to change the prompt so we changed the prompt
• 8:51
  Dave Hamilton: and it was like well how are you vetting what it gets back well we're not vetting
• 8:54
  Dave Hamilton: what it gets back ah okay we need to when you get something back we need to
• 8:59
  Dave Hamilton: look at that and make sure
• 9:01
  Dave Hamilton: that it's actually giving us what we asked for because we don't want to just
• 9:04
  Dave Hamilton: deliver this script to the podcaster without having confirmed that it's actually like,
• 9:10
  Dave Hamilton: doing a thing and yeah incorporating all the right stuff and did it get lost
• 9:14
  Dave Hamilton: and no okay and then it was like all right so i you know that took another day
• 9:18
  Dave Hamilton: of tweaking to get that there and then finally it was like okay this is great,
• 9:23
  Dave Hamilton: and now it's the most generic read it could be because it has no context on
• 9:27
  Dave Hamilton: who the podcaster is like each individual one so it was like all right well
• 9:31
  Dave Hamilton: now we got to put another field on the page where we He asked the podcaster to type in,
• 9:35
  Dave Hamilton: why do you like perplexity computers, right?
• 9:38
  Dave Hamilton: You know, and now it's got to incorporate that. It was a whole other day.
• 9:41
  Dave Hamilton: And it took me three days with agentic coding to build a harness that did one prompt.
• 9:52
  Dave Hamilton: Now I understand why cursor, which is a harness for programmers.
• 9:58
  Dave Hamilton: They don't, I mean, they do have their own models, but you know,
• 10:00
  Dave Hamilton: now they use Grok as a model, which is a whole different thing.
• 10:03
  Dave Hamilton: But that's after the post-acquisition, right? You know, pre-acquisition,
• 10:06
  Dave Hamilton: they were using whoever's models were out there. Everything, yeah.
• 10:09
  Dave Hamilton: They did have their own, and you can still use any model you want, but...
• 10:14
  Dave Hamilton: They paid 60 billion dollars for a 65 billion and now i understand why it's like yeah oh.
• 10:23
  Shannon Jean: And so crockbot is another harness
• 10:25
  Dave Hamilton: Harness yeah harness.
• 10:27
  Shannon Jean: That that that's what they've released in the last few weeks and it makes it
• 10:31
  Shannon Jean: much easier to for people to interface with the the
• 10:34
  Dave Hamilton: Models yes right yeah that's what agents yeah yes and and that's a that's a
• 10:39
  Dave Hamilton: just like cursor is a purpose built harness for programmers grokbot is a purpose-built
• 10:43
  Dave Hamilton: harness to do you know the that agentic stuff our sponsor complexity computer it's,
• 10:49
  Dave Hamilton: i've been really impressed with it by the way i love it i use yep but that's
• 10:54
  Dave Hamilton: very specified to do your work
• 10:56
  Dave Hamilton: for you and i've got an example that i'll share that too but like it it,
• 11:02
  Dave Hamilton: the the harness is hard the models are also hard don't get me wrong. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
• 11:08
  Dave Hamilton: But it's there's very much two pieces going on here.
• 11:13
  Dave Hamilton: And so that harness thing, it's a,
• 11:17
  Dave Hamilton: It is, it remains that, you know, what I said years ago or a year ago,
• 11:21
  Dave Hamilton: the client app is kind of the most important thing, except the model is the
• 11:25
  Dave Hamilton: most important thing, right?
• 11:26
  Dave Hamilton: You know, it's still true. I just replaced client app with harness because that's
• 11:30
  Dave Hamilton: the term the industry uses.
• 11:32
  Shannon Jean: But that's what a harness is. That's cool. Yeah. Good to know.
• 11:34
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Yep.
• 11:35
  Shannon Jean: Well, I'm excited to talk about an app, a harness that we chatted a little bit
• 11:42
  Shannon Jean: about last week, but we'll explore that more coming up.
• 11:44
  Dave Hamilton: Absolutely. We will. We will talk about that. The next thing that we're going
• 11:48
  Dave Hamilton: to talk about is our sponsors.
• 11:50
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• 11:54
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• 11:57
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• 12:01
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• 12:43
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• 12:47
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• 12:51
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• 12:57
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• 13:00
  Dave Hamilton: KeeperSecurity.com slash brain. Go check it out. I think you're going to like
• 13:03
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• 13:08
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• 13:15
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• 13:17
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• 13:21
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• 13:26
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• 14:34
  Dave Hamilton: All right, Shannon, my instincts, tell me what we're going to talk about.
• 14:39
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, let's talk a little more about instinct AI. We're using that.
• 14:42
  Shannon Jean: We talked about last week, we have some more beta invites. If you're interested,
• 14:47
  Shannon Jean: just email feedback at businessbrain.show. I just sent a few of those out this morning.
• 14:52
  Shannon Jean: But it's an interesting harness because you interact with the entire app,
• 14:59
  Shannon Jean: if you will, in your messages app. So in our case, we're using iMessage.
• 15:03
  Shannon Jean: I don't know if they have an Android version or not.
• 15:07
  Dave Hamilton: They do. I imagine they do. I wanted to offer a correction because I had not
• 15:10
  Dave Hamilton: used it last week. You were telling me about it for the first time,
• 15:13
  Dave Hamilton: and I thought it was just SMS.
• 15:17
  Dave Hamilton: I think it will work over SMS. It absolutely, though, connects as an iMessage
• 15:22
  Dave Hamilton: client, which I like for several reasons.
• 15:27
  Dave Hamilton: One is that it's always using the data connection, but it will use threaded replies.
• 15:34
  Dave Hamilton: It does start to get,
• 15:36
  Dave Hamilton: unruly with all of those threads after a little bit and you can invite it to
• 15:43
  Dave Hamilton: your slack workspace in fact the yes,
• 15:46
  Dave Hamilton: which is um i haven't done it yet my son did it he just created a dummy free
• 15:50
  Dave Hamilton: not a dummy but a free slack workspace just to use with this,
• 15:54
  Dave Hamilton: and invites it to the different channels and now it keeps everything straight
• 15:58
  Dave Hamilton: and and all of that for him i i've been impressed by it. Yeah.
• 16:02
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, I have too.
• 16:05
  Shannon Jean: I like the interaction through messages. I think it's great.
• 16:09
  Shannon Jean: I like that it kind of gives me a quick rundown of my day. You know,
• 16:12
  Shannon Jean: the more you connect it to, the more powerful it is.
• 16:15
  Shannon Jean: And one of the things they announced last week, two things, was that you could
• 16:19
  Shannon Jean: connect them to multiple instincts. So like, let's say, use it in your family.
• 16:24
  Shannon Jean: You could connect it to each other's accounts to kind of, hey,
• 16:27
  Shannon Jean: let's schedule something on the calendar whatever and then they also
• 16:32
  Shannon Jean: uh rolled out voice for it where um it's going to be able to call and you know
• 16:38
  Shannon Jean: do things for you which i don't have access to it yet i asked about it and said
• 16:41
  Shannon Jean: rolling it out slowly but
• 16:44
  Shannon Jean: uh i think this kind of harness this interface i think it's really powerful and um i like it
• 16:49
  Dave Hamilton: What i what i like about it is um,
• 16:54
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, the text interface,
• 17:00
  Dave Hamilton: it's novel,
• 17:03
  Dave Hamilton: but to me, that's not the best part about it.
• 17:07
  Dave Hamilton: It's good. Don't get me wrong. I like that it's right there in iMessage,
• 17:10
  Dave Hamilton: but that's not that much different than just texting it in its bespoke app, right? Sure.
• 17:18
  Dave Hamilton: It's one notch more convenient, but to me, that's not the revolutionary part.
• 17:23
  Dave Hamilton: The revolutionary part is that you just get started it doesn't want a lot of data from you
• 17:30
  Dave Hamilton: it just wants you to start asking at things so like when we were in new york
• 17:34
  Dave Hamilton: last week um we started looking at harry styles tickets because it was like well yeah like
• 17:40
  Dave Hamilton: to my point like i was saying on wednesday there's a lot of distractions when
• 17:43
  Dave Hamilton: you're in new york for a conference yes and we knew that the final night we
• 17:47
  Dave Hamilton: were there was one of the nights of harry's residency and and i've i've always
• 17:51
  Dave Hamilton: wanted to see him live i've heard he's a great performer and so i was like all right well kids from.
• 17:54
  Shannon Jean: My kid my daughter went
• 17:55
  Dave Hamilton: Last week yeah yeah right exactly and so i i just texted it and i was like great
• 17:59
  Dave Hamilton: um we're thinking about harry styles on friday,
• 18:02
  Dave Hamilton: when and where should we buy tickets last minute and it was like all right let
• 18:07
  Dave Hamilton: me do some research and it came back and it gave me some like pointers and guidance
• 18:11
  Dave Hamilton: and it was like they're really expensive right now,
• 18:13
  Dave Hamilton: wait but here's the places that that you can look and then yeah once or twice a day,
• 18:20
  Dave Hamilton: i would just get a note from instinct
• 18:22
  Dave Hamilton: saying hey i've kept an eye on this for you now i didn't ask it to
• 18:26
  Dave Hamilton: i all i asked was that one prompt and it became this ongoing thing and it would
• 18:31
  Dave Hamilton: always reply in the thread which was which was nice you know i could kind of
• 18:34
  Dave Hamilton: see you can narrow down and see the whole thing,
• 18:36
  Dave Hamilton: and we we wound up not doing that because it just,
• 18:40
  Dave Hamilton: it wound up being the wrong thing but we did wind up going to see comedy on,
• 18:44
  Dave Hamilton: Friday night and I asked it the same thing like hey I'm thinking about comedy
• 18:48
  Dave Hamilton: this is where we're staying this is what we're doing
• 18:50
  Dave Hamilton: what what are the options where are the things and it was like okay great well
• 18:54
  Dave Hamilton: you know here's all the options here's who's where and what here's what what
• 18:57
  Dave Hamilton: tickets are still available for these comedy
• 19:00
  Dave Hamilton: nights like it it just pulled it all together,
• 19:04
  Dave Hamilton: and and I've got it working on like six different projects and I it just is so.
• 19:11
  Dave Hamilton: Simple to get started with anything and i think perhaps the,
• 19:17
  Dave Hamilton: best example that i can give is that i just you know pointed my family at it
• 19:22
  Dave Hamilton: and they just all started using it and it was like oh wow i didn't have to like
• 19:26
  Dave Hamilton: explain what this was yes it's it's the,
• 19:30
  Dave Hamilton: it's it's the closest thing i've seen to jane from ender's game so far yeah.
• 19:34
  Shannon Jean: Yeah it's cool and i think like when i first started I just asked it.
• 19:39
  Shannon Jean: And it's like, okay, what can you do for me?
• 19:41
  Shannon Jean: And it just like, okay, ba-da-ba-da-ba-da-ba-da. You know, it just started to
• 19:44
  Shannon Jean: be like, okay, okay, settle down. Like you say, sometimes I have to push back
• 19:47
  Shannon Jean: and be like, don't worry about that,
• 19:48
  Dave Hamilton: I'm good. Yeah, knock it off.
• 19:50
  Shannon Jean: But like, yeah, it alerted me this morning, said, hey, you got to change your
• 19:53
  Shannon Jean: credit card for your OpenAI subscription.
• 19:56
  Shannon Jean: That popped up. You don't want that to lack. Just different things. And
• 20:00
  Shannon Jean: one thing I want to talk about on our next episode of Friday AI is using these
• 20:06
  Shannon Jean: tools to really expand your brain well beyond what you're used to.
• 20:11
  Shannon Jean: And I think this is just another tool.
• 20:14
  Shannon Jean: We mentioned it last week. I feel like a conductor in the morning when I come into my office now.
• 20:21
  Shannon Jean: I'm not delegating as many tasks to people, but I'm checking with these different
• 20:26
  Shannon Jean: tools, these different harnesses and AI models and starting the day with them.
• 20:31
  Shannon Jean: Okay, go take care of this, interface with this person, do this,
• 20:34
  Shannon Jean: do that. And I'm really enjoying it. And I think that
• 20:38
  Shannon Jean: You know, there's a lot of novelty to it. Like I'm waiting for my,
• 20:42
  Shannon Jean: you know, meta just released Muse.
• 20:44
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, I saw that. And I'm on the wait list.
• 20:46
  Shannon Jean: I haven't gotten access to it yet, but I think it's similar to some of this
• 20:50
  Shannon Jean: kind of stuff. I think it's going to...
• 20:52
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, this is the next level of this. And the history of Instinct is really
• 20:56
  Dave Hamilton: interesting. I mean, I think the founder is 22 or something. Yeah.
• 21:01
  Dave Hamilton: And their valuation went from...
• 21:04
  Dave Hamilton: It's insane, dude. 75 billion at the beginning of August to 250 at the end of
• 21:08
  Dave Hamilton: August. Like it's crazy.
• 21:10
  Dave Hamilton: I'm, and they don't charge anything now. Obviously it's still in beta,
• 21:13
  Dave Hamilton: but we, we've got some invites. We can send them out to you.
• 21:15
  Dave Hamilton: Um, my guess is that,
• 21:20
  Dave Hamilton: at least one version of their plan is to never charge people because they've
• 21:27
  Dave Hamilton: built a fantastic harness and they just want to be acquired.
• 21:30
  Dave Hamilton: So they're accumulating users. Now, they do have their own models,
• 21:35
  Dave Hamilton: which is the interesting part.
• 21:37
  Dave Hamilton: They are based on open source frontier models that they have tuned.
• 21:43
  Dave Hamilton: So it keeps their costs down to a degree, but there's still compute costs that are huge.
• 21:51
  Dave Hamilton: But yeah, really interesting. Yeah, and I'm eager to see where it all goes.
• 21:56
  Dave Hamilton: I like what's happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty bullish on it.
• 21:58
  Shannon Jean: It's going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out. And I agree,
• 22:00
  Shannon Jean: there won't be 10 different ones we use. There'll be a few, but that all have strengths.
• 22:06
  Dave Hamilton: They have their different... Yeah, the three pillars, I think,
• 22:09
  Dave Hamilton: is kind of how I'm thinking about. One for coding, one for the work assistant. Yeah.
• 22:16
  Dave Hamilton: And then one that's just like your buddy that, that kind of oversees everything else too. Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:21
  Shannon Jean: Chief of staff. So what's the big takeaway today for me?
• 22:25
  Shannon Jean: It's understanding that these are harnesses on top of these other models and
• 22:32
  Shannon Jean: the interface that you use and
• 22:36
  Shannon Jean: how you interact is that client facing, you know, hardest. I think that's really interesting.
• 22:41
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, I think that I agree. The takeaway is learn how each harness that's available
• 22:46
  Dave Hamilton: to us works with the models and then works with you because it is the glue between you and the models.
• 22:53
  Dave Hamilton: So learning about the harnesses and how each one of them works and how you can
• 22:58
  Dave Hamilton: then leverage them. I think that's the key. Yeah.
• 23:01
  Shannon Jean: And we're going to break it down more in one of our business blueprints.
• 23:04
  Shannon Jean: You can find it at businessbrain.show slash blueprints. We'll dive in deeper
• 23:09
  Shannon Jean: and you can learn along with us.
• 23:11
  Dave Hamilton: Love it.
• 23:13
  Dave Hamilton: Thanks for hanging out, folks. Feedback at businessbrain.show.
• 23:15
  Dave Hamilton: You can send us feedback and also ask for those invites. And have a great weekend.
• 23:21
  Dave Hamilton: Keep living that charmed life. We'll see you next week.
• 23:23
  Shannon Jean: See ya.