Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / Two hospital births, welcoming the unknown, escaping the Woolsey fire postpartum, and accepting help
Transcript
- Merelise: Before we dive into today's episode, I want to talk to you about something incredibly close to my heart, and that's maternal health. I've spoken a lot about my own experiences on this podcast, especially related to mental health, and how important it is to seek help, whether through therapy or medicine. But we all know that's easier said than done. That's where Mère comes in, a virtual maternal health care clinic serving women from preconception through menopause. Mère was founded by a mom, just like you or me. Who struggled to find the support she needed during her own maternal health journey and wanted to create a better experience for other women. Mère brings together therapists, women's health providers, and pelvic floor specialists who understand the unique challenges women face throughout motherhood. Mère believes women deserve care that looks at the whole picture, not just one symptom or one appointment at a time. Book a free 15-minute phone call today and learn more at Mère-ForEveryChapter.com. That's Mère M-E-R-E dash for every chapter dot com. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: look great. Merelise: Okay, thank you. all right. Well, hello and welcome to the Arrivals podcast. I'm your host, Merelise Wilson, and today I have the amazing mom, photographer, and my friend Katherine Brolin here with me today. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Ew, I'm so happy to be here. my gosh, this is so fun. Good Merelise: It's so good to see you. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: to see you two. Thanks for having me to talk about my favorite thing. Merelise: Such a treat. my gosh, thank you for doing this. I know, I know. It's so funny. Like people just love talking about birth. And I remember when I first had the idea to do the podcast, Chris, my husband who you know obviously, was like, Do you really think people are gonna wanna like talk about their births that much? And I was like, I think you'd be surprised. I know. I know. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: my gosh, yes. Yes. It's the very best topic. yeah, and then like we were just saying, I feel like as you go into the nitty-gritty of like It's just straight up kid life. Like you're no longer in Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: the baby stage, but you're in just full blown kid life. I feel like it gets talked about less and less, your birth, your pregnancy, Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: all that stuff. So this is really fun just to have this specific topic today, because it really is one of my favorite ones, you know. So thank you. Thanks for having me. Merelise: I love it. That makes me so happy. Thank you for doing it. speaking of big kids, how old are your girls now? Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Westlyn is seven, and then Chapel is five, and then I have two stepkids who are 33 Merelise: Yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and 38, two of the most magical, Merelise: Sweet little babies. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: sweet little babies, two of the most magical Merelise: Ha ha. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: humans to ever exist in the world. I'm so lucky to have Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: them in my life, and it's so much fun to see the older ones with the younger ones, and it's really, really a cool experience Merelise: Yeah, that's so special. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: to have both sides of the spectr both ends of the spectrum, you know. Merelise: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, on a very smaller scale. I remember when I was pregnant with my first. As you know, Chris has an older brother and we're very close with him and his wife, and they have two kids. And when I got pregnant with my first, I realized that our kids were gonna be about like ten years apart. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Mm-hmm. Merelise: And initially I was kind of like bummed about the age gap, but it's been so beautiful like seeing their kids like parent. my kids and like that different dynamic in that relationship and how much my kids look up to them and I know it's different cousins versus siblings but it's just the the bigger age cap can be Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Well and it's very easy f Merelise: so unique. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it really is. And it's easy for you to say, Well, this is what I was expecting or this is what I know and so this is what I'm gonna try and create. And especially in my life specifically, it's very different. Very different than what I grew up with and And it's such a blessing and it's so much Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: fun and it's so unique and it's so just like full of revelations for me and exploration and discovery and you know, because it is like very different than how I grew up, you know. But we're Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: in Atlanta right now, as you know, just full absorption Merelise: I know. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: from the cousins and it's like full cousin life and that itself is so special. I feel like each chapter is getting more and more fun. I remember along the Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: way, like at three months, I'd be like, my gosh, like this is so good. How could it get any better than this? And then six months, then nine months, then twelve months. It's like each one. And now we're at seven and five and I'm like, this is so good. I don't how could Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it possibly get any better than this? And it just does. It just keeps getting better and better. Merelise: I always say the same thing to people who are becoming parents for the first time, especially when you're in the newborn trenches and it feels so hard. But then Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah. Merelise: even once you get out of the newborn trenches and you're in like that really magical period where it it feels really easy. I'm like, just wait, every phase is better. Like if you think you're obsessed with them now, like, Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah. Merelise: my gosh, just wait until they're talking or, you know, having conversations and then I'm sure just even beyond that, it's more and more. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah, exactly. I know. My mom says, like she'll sit with all three of me and her, you know, I have two sisters and she'll sit with us and she'll be like, This is the best it's ever been. This is amazing. You know? So I just I know that there's just like so much more to go. And it's already been Merelise: Yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so full. I can't believe we're at seven and five and I feel like I've been I feel like I'm like eighty. I like I Merelise: Ha ha ha Kathryn Boyd Brolin: feel like I've lived so much life to this point and I'm like, Merelise: Ha ha. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: my gosh, we've got a long way to go and it's all so wonderful. So really Merelise: I know, it's so exciting. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: big blessing. Yeah. Merelise: Well, taking it all the way back to the beginning today, so Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yes, yes. Merelise: you said Westlyn is seven. When you got pregnant with Westlyn did you have any sort of plans or speaking of expectations, any expectations for your birth or what it would be like or what you wanted it to look like? Kathryn Boyd Brolin: No, I was Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: fully winging it. I mean, like, and I say that very lightly because a lot of people are, you know, they plan and they have trouble, and for some it never happens, and for some it takes a long time, and for some it happens right away. And but I really we were just in this beautiful like bubble of just Goodness. Like it was just everything was so wonderful and romantic and like you know it just life was just lifing. It was just a very wild, Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: fun time. And our wedding was so fun. And our wedding was just like it was just it just felt like it just kept getting better and better. And I Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I was never the type of person that was like, okay, I'm gonna have kids by this time and I'm gonna do this by this time. I was just kind of like my more go with the flow. I was just kind of like life is Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: gonna do what it's gonna do, you know. And I so I think when we decided, like, okay, maybe it's time to think about making a family. You know, it was just Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: kind of this, I let's just go for it and see what happens. And for Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: us, it happened really fast once we decided and I'm so grateful for that because I have so many people around me that that's not the case. And I know enough now to this point to know how special and wonderful that is and how grateful Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I am for that. but yeah it was just kind of like, okay, what do we do now? And okay, so you I guess I guess in the movies I go to the doctor. We're gonna go to the doctor now. Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: You know, it was just very kind of like put one foot in front of the other kind of time. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And I was very diligent about keeping like a video diary during that time and actually because of this I went back and I started watching all those videos last night. Stayed up until 2 a.m. Merelise: So sweet. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: just watching everything and just the amount of things that happen that you forget about, the little details and just like the little things that you attach yourself to that don't Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: feel particularly important, but they're just interesting little details to remember. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I'm so grateful that I have like a record of that time in video form. You know, I can see like Merelise: Yes, yes, yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: my body changing and my face changing and like my whole, you know, first trimester is just so intense and you're so tired and everything is so Merelise: Mm. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: just like, what are we doing now? This is really weird and feeling nauseous and feeling sick. And then going into for me at least, this was my second trimester, was just happy, so happy, Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: feel felt great. working out all the time, felt really, really good. And then third trimester feeling like this is getting heavy and Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I didn't want to induce or anything. And so I just decided to let the body do its thing and she was gonna come when she was gonna come. And I just didn't yeah. I felt like she Merelise: Was that just a sense you had? Like you just felt like it was Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: should be here when she's supposed to be here. And I'm gonna let her dictate that. And whether or not that's a total projection from my own Libra Atlanta to California thing, like I'm just like I'm gonna lean into nature and like let nature run its Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: course. I don't know, but I really felt very strongly about her picking her due date. And so Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: yeah, towards those last few days, we were living we were living in Malibu at the time in a house that my husband had bought a long, long time ago. We had moved there, but we still had our little bungalow in Santa Monica. And so we decided Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: to be closer to my doctor who I just was Texting this morning with. She's still one of my most favorite people in the world. I love her so much. Dr. Bickman in Santa Monica. we decided we sh probably, because she's amazing. She's an icon in my life. I love her. Merelise: I feel like I've heard that name. Yeah. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: but she, you know, just as an aside, Bickman, the reason why I chose her was because I met with a lot of doctors. I think I met with like three or four at least in my head that I can remember. And everybody I came in and I was just like, you know, this is what I want it to be. I want it to be I want it to be a natural birth. I wanna do it this way, I wanna do it that way. Everybody's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. We can do it whatever we want. It's all good, it's all good. Doctor Bickman was the first one that looked at me and said, I'm gonna get the baby out the way that I need to, safely. Merelise: Mm, Kathryn Boyd Brolin: That's my number one goal. So you can Merelise: mm, mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: make all the plans you want, but on the day, your body is gonna dictate what it needs, and I'm gonna get that baby out safely as Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I need to. And it was like the most mama bear talk I needed at that point to feel Merelise: Hm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: confident about delivering. And she took care of me in such a powerful way through that whole process. but going back, I went to Santa Monica a few days prior, knowing that she was really coming and I was starting to feel her. very, very low. So we went and just like kind of camped out in Santa Monica. One of my favorite pictures anybody's ever taken of me, my stepsister took a picture of me on our little rooftop perch there. And I'm so pregnant and the sunset is Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so beautiful. And I just had this feeling of like it's all gonna be good. It's all gonna be okay. And we Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: went in at 230 in the morning and she was here by two thirty that next morning. So Merelise: Okay. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And yeah, my water had broken two days prior. I always thought that your water Merelise: okay. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: breaking was like this big event that was like very dramatic and it's like it's go time, it's time to go. Merelise: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: but for me it was like very subtle and not noticeable at all. And so I was walking around with a broken water for two days before I even felt like I needed to go to the hospital. So Merelise: So you didn't even really realize your water had broken? Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: No, I didn't know. And she was six days overdue at that point. And so Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I knew she was on her way, but I didn't know when. I had said, Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: like, okay, Dr. Bickman was like, I'll let you go maybe ten days. Maybe ten. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And then we're gonna have to figure this out. So anyway, Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: she lasted six past her due date. And we went in and it was just I have so many videos of like Josh during that time was just so fun. was so Funny and fun and like we brought in, I had this wonderful, I didn't have a doula. I'm really jumping all over the place, but just you know, bump me back on course whenever you need to. Merelise: You this is your story. This is your story. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: But I'm just gonna give you as many details as I can. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: but I didn't have a doula, but I have a really good friend who is a doula. I was like, I'm I'm very I'm kind of like a private person. I really like like my little love bubble, and all I wanted was my doctor and my husband. That's all I wanted. Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And had I known what I know now, I probably would have had her come. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: just for like an extra little dose of support. Not that, I mean, Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Dr. Pickman is she's everything you could ever want. But just because it was just having more love in that room, and I'll get to that in a second. But Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: but anyway, she came over and she helped me create this birth plan. Her name is Carson Meyer, and she lives in North Carolina now, but she's from LA, and so she She came over and sat with me one day and she said, This is these are some of the questions that you're gonna need to ask. These are the things that you need to know about. And she went down the line of everything from, you know, cord clamping and you Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: know, saving your placenta after and like all Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: of the things that are at your disposal to do with what you Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: wish that I knew nothing about. And so she really helped me kind of figure out what I wanted and in what time I wanted it. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: But by the time we got there, we had Christmas lights, we had, even though it wasn't Christmas, this is in November, we had like those little, you know, flameless candles, we had essential oils, Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: we had a playlist, we had a speaker, we like set this hospital room up. Like every nurse that Merelise: Love it. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: walked in was like, this is amazing. I wanna be in here. Like this is really good. Merelise: This is a vibe. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And we were there for so long. my gosh. And my family was flying into town from all over. And it was so fun. And by the time. Merelise: What eventually sent you to the hospital? Like w your water had been broken, but at what point were you like, Okay, we should go in? Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I think I think my I really felt like a first really big contraction. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And my stepmom had sent me a spicy lasagna. I don't know if that's what did it, Merelise: Ha ha. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: but it very well could have been. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: but I felt like a really big first contraction. And in Santa Monica, you know, all the houses are on the street. Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And I could remember like kind of being in flow with my contractions as I was hearing the traffic outside. And it's like middle of the Merelise: Hm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: night, the Santa Monica is like always buzzing. And Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it was just like here in the cars and then here in the beach activity, which still happens overnight. It's like Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it was just all kind of like moving together. And I just got into this like flow of Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: this is about to be the coolest thing ever. Like this is the coolest Merelise: That Kathryn Boyd Brolin: middle of the night moment. And I really wanted Josh to sleep. So Josh was sleeping Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: for a little bit of that time and then finally I woke him up at like I'm pretty sure it was like one thirty and I was like, Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I think maybe it's time to go. And I was texting Bickman and she was like, It's time to go. So Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: we got there and it was like so wonderful and magical to get there in the middle of the night, you know, Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and checking into the room and both of us were so sleep deprived at that point, like Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: very sleep deprived already because there was so much anticipation and it was just so all of it was like so we were just like wide-eyed over the whole thing, even though keep in mind he's done this twice before. You know, Merelise: Yeah, I was gonna ask, yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: but it had been so long and this was Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: new in its own right. And so he had Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: all of that beautiful, amazing experience with what this all is and can be. And I think Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: probably Hold all of that experience into what we were doing. And he was just Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: the best. He was such a rock. And Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so he was cracking jokes and making people laugh and making me laugh, and it was awesome. But as we were going, I was getting more and more tired. I was just, I was super tired. And so having a good time and like full of wonder, but also like my body was starting to really break down. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: really feeling the effects of fatigue. And Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and so I labored there until like I I was like really giving it a good fight 'cause I had come in really wanting a natural birth. I didn't want any Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: pain intervention. And I think a lot of people do that. They come in with really high hopes Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: of not having any pain intervention. And and some people, God love are able to go to the bitter end and it's I mean the lovely end, whatever it is, you know, but for me specifically, I bittersweet end. But I Merelise: Bittersweet. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: was like, I'm not gonna be able to push. I'm I literally Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: have no energy left in me. And I I wasn't Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: fully even fully dilated yet. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And so, I don't know if it was Bickman or if it was me that was just like, I need to, I really need to sleep and I'm in so Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: much pain that I can't sleep. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And so I went ahead and I decided to get the epidural. And the epidural I had like read so much about, and I know that it's like a hot topic. For me in that moment, I was like, for me, sleep is I have to get sleep. And so that epidural let me sleep. And I have Merelise: Right. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I have a video an hour after I got that epidural. And I went from being face was like a bit contorted to face being Merelise: Yeah, so tense. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: soft and relaxed and like just gently drifting off to sleep and I was able to get Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: a solid like four to five hours of just sleep and Merelise: What a gift. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: rest. And so by the time I woke up I was like, I got this. Like I got this, my Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: body's ready, I got this. And and so at some point though, and I don't remember at what point I'd asked them to lay off the epidural because I didn't like the feeling Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: of not being able to feel anything. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: felt made me feel really like claustrophobic and strange and I was shaky and Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I didn't like that. And so I just decided to like ask them to like let me go. And Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so by the time we started pushing, boy was I feeling everything. And I was like, it it's this really strange balance between and this is what I love about mothers and women is like you go to like the brink of pain. And Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: there in those little kind of moments in between feeling extreme pain, you know, your contractions are like really, really Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: intense. There are these little pockets of like like a narrative of like I can do this. Like this is what I'm meant to do. This is what my body was built to do and I'm going to be okay. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And in that like kind of fluctuation, I found this like crazy amount of joy and just Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: excitement over like the fact that I got to do it. You know, and Merelise: Yeah, yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so after she made her appearance, I remember like right before she came out, there was like a snafu on my playlist and somehow like some crazy rap song came on. What was it? It was like it was like get low or something. It was like to the window Merelise: my god. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: to the and I was like, god, she can't be born to this. No no no keep her in, keep her Merelise: I've been bored of this. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: in, she can and then Josh went over and He like bumped it along right away, thank God. And she was, I remember helpless by Crosby Stills, Nash and Young was playing, and she just gently made her way into the world. And we were, it was just euphoric. It was euphoric. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And and at some point during my pushing, I was just so into it that I was like, get him in here, go get my sisters, go get my mom, like they need to see this, they need to be a part of it. And I look back Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: at the videos of just How exposed you are and how vulnerable you are in that situation. I mean, you are really splayed out. And they Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: were just, I just remember them like coming in and just like this waft of like love and just togetherness Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and like female, you know, power was in there. It like makes me emotional thinking about it. And it was just Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so wonderful and so much fun. And and even though like pain was there, it was still euphoric. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and she came out and they were, you know, they kind of like they were having trouble getting her to breathe right away. And so Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: they kind of took her over. And and I couldn't see her because there were all these backs to me. It was like they were all blocking her, which is I think a lot of the reason why people don't want to some people don't want to deliver in hospitals, you know, they wanna they don't like that. And I totally understood. I understand that, but to me it was like I'm glad that she's being tended to the way that she needs to be tended to. But I didn't know what was happening for like a solid couple minutes and I was just reading Merelise: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: my sister. The only face I could see was my sister's and I was just like Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: studying her face. And and she looked over at me and she's got, if anybody knows my sister or Kaylin, she's got this bright, beautiful, like hundred watt smile, and she just looked over and she goes, She's doing great. I was just Merelise: She does. my gosh. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: like, Okay, we're good, we're good. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so anyway, we you know took her home. We had two blissful days in the hospital. My stepkids got to come and my family was there. Merelise: No. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Everybody was wonderful. but you're very much like healing, you know, you're recovering, physically recovering and mentally. Merelise: Yes. And mentally. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so it was it was wonderful. And we got to see Dr. Bickman. She came by and saw the baby and pediatrician Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: came and it was just awesome. But we took her home, had three solid days of okay, how do we do this? I think we got this. And then Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: my mom was there, my my stepdaughter Eden, and my s my older sister was there. We're they were all there. And and we got a knock on the door at 9 a.m. saying, You gotta go. There's a fire in the area. And Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: we, you know, grew up in the south. We never dealt with Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: big Fires, you know, it was more for us. It was tornadoes. Yeah, Merelise: No, it's never on my radar. Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it was tornadoes and torrential downpours and that Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: kind of thing. So I'd never been in like a big fire before and I came outside and we had like been smelling the smoke a little bit, but I wasn't Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I was trying to sleep and nurse and all this stuff. So I wasn't really paying attention. Merelise: Right. You're in the bubble. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I was in the bubble. So knock on the door, you gotta go, you got about fifteen minutes and you gotta get out the door. And so it's really wild. You know, I'll talk about this with the understanding that we have just been through another horrendous fire where a lot Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: of people lost their homes. And in the Woolsey fire, the one that I'm mentioning, a lot of people lost their homes that day and we Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: did not. so I tread lightly talking about this. But Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: also it's really wild what you grab when you feel like you got Ten, fifteen minutes to grab the things that matter most to you. Funny enough, Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I gr I grabbed none of my cameras. I grabbed nothing, no passports, nothing. I went in and I grabbed her j Westlyn's bassinet. I Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: grabbed her blanket, I grabbed a couple really beautiful dresses that were gifted to her by my mother and my mother in law and you know, all of her stuff. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: you know, just only stuff for her. And we threw her in the car and we went north, even though we were the only we were the last car that they allowed to go north. And everybody else was going south. And Merelise: And you're three days postpartum? Kathryn Boyd Brolin: we're three days postpartum. she, you know, my mom took off to go south to Santa Monica. My stepdaughter went south to Santa Monica thinking they're gonna breeze down PCH and get out of Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: the danger zone. They got stuck in the worst. Everybody was trying to go south, you know, and so Merelise: Mm. Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: they sat on PCH for seven hours trying watching the fire come over the hill. I mean, it was Merelise: my god. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: a horrible image. We Josh, we we were pulling out of our neighborhood onto PCH, and this random dude had his window down and said, Turn around, don't go south, turn around. And we just looked Merelise: my gosh. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: at each other and we were like I think we should listen. And so we went north and it was bizarre. It was driving into black smoke. And I was freaking out. And I called I I Merelise: Freaking out. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: was saying to Josh, like, you gotta turn around, you gotta turn around. And he was like, You gotta trust me. I think this is the best, this is the best thing to do. And I r I took Westlyn out of her car seat at one point. I was trying to nurse Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: her, even though she was fast asleep and had no idea what was going on. I was freaking Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: out, just thinking. Like we're going into the fire right now, and we watched it kind of skip PCH and go to the other side of PCH and Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: right next to the ocean, you know. We were seeing Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: like animals on the beach and things like that. And when we punched through the smoke and finally got into clear blue sky, it was the most bizarre thing to see everybody. We finally made our way to Santa Barbara and everybody was just living life. Like they had no idea what was happening in our south, you know, it was just this. Merelise: So crazy. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: crazy kind of juxtaposition of total normalcy t total normalcy and total devastation right next Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: to each other. It was just bizarre. and then from there we continue north and we kind of camped out in Central Coast California for I I think like three or four weeks before we came home again. and in that time, you know, anybody who remembers the Wolsey fire knows just the havoc that was wreaked on that place. You Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: know, it was just Horrendous. And Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: you know, going in, I think postpartum is an interesting experience anyway, because Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: some people it's so easy and they just Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: they just pick up and go, and the baby's part of the equation, and it's just easy. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and then for others, it's really, really challenging. And for for Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: me, it was really challenging, and especially to kind of pluck yourself out of your village. and go into total isolation, which is kind of what we did. We went to Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: we went to a place that there weren't a lot of people around. It was like very Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: rural, in in a you know in just a most beautiful, quiet, gorgeous place, but also it was very kind of empty of of other y life, you know, so it was just Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: me and Josh and the baby. And and so I don't know if that worked to our benefit because all of a sudden Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it was just like, okay, how do you do this? And then we had just been through this whole thing with the fire where there was a few days where we thought we had lost everything and then we were told we didn't. And so we were just kind of trying to figure out what that all was gonna look like. Was the house gonna be okay? Did all of our s did all of our things there make it? Like do we have smoke damage? You know, trying to figure Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: out by game of telephone w how bad it was, how many neighbors lost Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: houses and all the things. while also trying to figure out how to care for this new life, right? Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so it was it was really challenging and Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and I was calling family members and feeling very like locked in. And I think Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: that kind of sent me into a really intense postpartum experience that lasted for quite a while. I mean I don't know what Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: the science says but it was a solid year where I was not myself. I was not normal. And Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and had a lot of really wild, intrusive thoughts and and just like feeling completely just not not like I wasn't having a normal experience in the world, you know? And just totally untethered. And Merelise: Like untethered. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: also feeling incredibly capable of taking care of her. It wasn't Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: like I can't do this, I can't take care of this little Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: life. It was I don't know how to take care of myself now. I don't know Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: what that's supposed to look like now. So that was that was treacherous road to walk. And I I actually Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: really look forward to hearing more of your interviews that you do to s to hear other people talk about the postpartum experience, because I think it's really an interesting topic, you know, how how different it can be from person to person. Merelise: So complex. it's complex in its own right. And then when you add on a major life event or another major life event, other than just having a baby, you add on another made major Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah. Merelise: life event, like a fire, an evacuation, where now you're displaced from your home Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Mm. Merelise: and you already feel out of sorts physically and mentally because you've just gone through this life-changing thing of having a baby, especially Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Mm. Merelise: your first one. And then to add add that in, I mean, yeah, I would imagine that that contributed to the to like the extensive timeline that you went through. That's just I mean, I can imagine just feeling really just untethered. I mean, that's you know, yeah. 'Cause having it been newborn is already kind of isolating. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah. I think it like speaks to the power of totally. And I think it speaks to the power of your village. Like in Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I was just at a baby shower for somebody else and we we went around and we kind of blessed the baby, you know, and we Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: said the thing that we feel like is the most important thing for the mom to keep in mind. And Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it was so interesting to hear from everybody else what they found the most important thing to do or to remember is. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: But for me it was that it was like keep your community close, keep the other people in your life close, keep make make sure you accept your partner and let them in. Let them Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: help, let them be, let them take care of you too, you know, Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and because all of that is so important, you know, your your village is so important. And if you put up little blocks, which is very easy to do when you're that focused. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: It can put you into a really intense place mentally. Merelise: Yeah, I've I've said before on the podcast that I don't think that we were really meant as women to give birth in our like in the isolated way that we do now. And and what I mean by that is like kind of or at least have postpartum experience postpartum in these isolated kind of individual family units that we now have, right? Like you Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah. Merelise: used to give birth and like it's it's interesting that your natural instinct was to have like your mom and your sisters around you 'cause like that's how it was, right? Like you gave birth Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Mm. Merelise: and you're the community was all around you and all the women in your life. And then when you had this baby, you then people were living in these, you know, communes or communities of like multiple families and multiple generations of families. And there was this giant village of people to care for you and care for your baby and give you a break. And now we live in this these really isolated like family units. And I think it's to the detriment of of moms, of new moms. It's so hard and it's so hard to ask for help. Like We're taught to be so strong and tough and resilient and like we can do it all, right? Especially like you're in my generation, like and it's it's just really hard. So it's a tough thing to work through. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Totally. And to know that you're not gonna be perfect at it, you know, I I Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: feel like i there's so many imperfect moments over the last seven years. Merelise: yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: you know, it was just I remember like th three days in there's this wonderful caregiver, you know, baby nurse. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Nanny, wonderful, wonderful woman. Her name is Nanny Connie and she's a friend of mine and she I I called Nanny Connie because I couldn't get Westlyn to stop crying. This was the first day that we got after we evacuated. I couldn't get her to stop crying and I was Merelise: Hm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: trying everything. I was like, is she hot? Is she cold? She's not hungry anymore. What is she what do we what do we do? Like I just couldn't figure it out. And I pulled the card, I called Nanny Connie and I said, please help me. I I don't know what to do. Like, and Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I and it and really it if I remember it properly, she wasn't crying for that long. It was maybe 10 minutes, but it was like, it was long enough for me to feel like, okay, I'm panicking now. Which is like at Merelise: As an yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: this point, you're like, it's okay. It's okay. They're it's okay. They're letting Merelise: But that first time. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: you know that they're not happy. It's okay. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: but in that moment I was panicking, and I called her and she said, FaceTime me. And and so I FaceTimed her and she looked at Westlyn and she goes, swaddle her up and I was like that can't possibly be it and she goes let me watch you and so I swaddled her. She said you didn't you didn't do it right. Here's here's how you Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: do it. Make it a little bit tighter, make her feel really cozy. Swaddled her up and she immediately stopped crying. And I was like You know, and some babies don't like swaddles. Like that's fine. Merelise: That's what I mean. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: You know, Westlyn loved it. And and that that's what Merelise: But it was something to try, yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it was. And it was my you know, she was part of my village in early days, Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and she was just wonderful in that moment. It made me feel like Merelise: Passing on that wisdom. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: somebody knows and it's okay for me to not know. I'm not supposed to know at this point. This is all gonna be messy, and it's okay that it's messy. Merelise: Yeah. Right. Yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: but yeah, if you have like any sort of perfectionism in it, you're gonna be sorely disappointed, you know. Merelise: I know, I know. parenthood is an excellent exercise in letting go of that. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yes. Yes, I know. And then if you're blessed enough to do it again, which we did, Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: You know, two years later we had Chapel and Chapel Chapel's birth was a totally different experience. We and this is something what that I wanted to talk about. Postpartum after Westlyn I was deeply in need of being around my family. It was like Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: this charge of like this primal need to be around my parents and my mom and my sisters. Like Merelise: Yeah, yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I needed to be here in Atlanta. And Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and my sweet, incredible partner was like, You if you feel like you n we need to do this, we're gonna do it and 'cause Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: that's who Josh is. Josh is like He wants everybody to like do their best and be their best. And you know, and if I needed to leave California, at least for that time, he was gonna help me do that. And he was wonderful. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And so we moved back here six months in to my pregnancy with Chapel and Merelise: Hm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I found this incredible doctor. I don't know if we're supposed to be mentioning doctors' names, but I have to. She's okay. Merelise: W we do. Yeah, we do. Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Dr. Vinolion. She is the I I never thought that I would find somebody that I've Felt as equally taken care of as I did with Dr. Bickman. Dr. Vanoyan absolutely had my back. Nobody was taking new patients, especially this far along in their pregnancy. I met Dr. Vanoyan. She took Merelise: Yeah. And during COVID, yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: my, especially during COVID, which like I just completely forgot to that that was part of the equation. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: But but yeah, she took me on. And so we moved into our house, we rented our house out in California, we moved into our house here, and we're all of a sudden just like living in the southern way. I was like, my gosh, I've got my whole family around at my disposal. I I need nothing, Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: you know, it's all right here for me. And we went and we you know, and we went all the way to the end of my pregnancy here. And by that point, you know, you've got another kid in the mix. So it's very different. It's very it's Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: much more you're less able to like sit in your whimsy and be like, how do I want this to go? Or you know, you just Merelise: Yeah. It's second pregnancy's so different. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it's so different. You're just kind of like you're you're sitting there thinking about your birth plan at the playground, you know? And Merelise: Yes, yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and so, you know, we we I think I went into labor with her at like in the middle of the night. she was already six days past due. She her due date was December nineteenth. And everybody around me was like, You're gonna give this baby a Christmas baby if you're not careful. And I was like, sorry, but I I gotta let her pick her due date too. Like Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it's very important to me that these children pick their own due dates. And Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and so and I just watched a little video journal that I did for myself, and I said I was saying you know, ten days is as long as my doctor will let me go. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: So I'm really, really praying that this this baby will figure out a way to make herself here, you know, come here on the day that she's supposed to, or help me figure out a way to feel okay getting induced. And Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And sure enough, on on Christmas Day, I woke up with labor pains at at, you know, in the middle of the night. And so we went to the hospital again at two AM. We checked in. Same kind of thing as like with Westland. She was six days past due. Chapel was six days past due. Merelise: Mm-hmm. I was gonna say six days, yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: 2 a.m. for Chapel, 2 a.m. for Westlyn got got there, and it was like a ghost town because it was COVID. And this time there was nobody else allowed in the hospital. So it was just me and Josh, you know, there was no Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: as wonderful it was to have family around the first go-around. This was honestly like a wonderful experience too, because it was just he and Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I. And he was incredible. He's making again, just making it so fun and cracking jokes and like each contraction, just yeah, mama, like just so. Merelise: Ha ha ha. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Into it and excited and the nurses there were incredible. I delivered at Piedmont, which was very close to where I was born, which was wild. And I was born at Northside. Merelise: Yeah. Were you born at Northside? Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And so doctor rolls in on Christmas Day and she's like, Let's have this Christmas baby, and and the nurses the n Honestly, my doctor and the nurses stick out to me as like maybe the coolest part of my whole birth experience in Atlanta because they were Merelise: So cool. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so incredible. and so yeah, she was it was a shorter same kind of deal. I came in, I was super sleep deprived. I knew Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: from my first experience I'm really gonna need this power and energy to push because as you know, it is very, very that's it's all about that. If you're you gotta get that baby out when that baby's ready to come out and you have Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: to do it by any means necessary. And and so I thought if I want to have this baby this way, then I'm gonna need some sleep in me. So again, got the epidural, got them to wear off of it. So by the time she was coming, I could feel it all. And it was so Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: whether or not it's I could feel it all, or if I could feel just a fraction because I had had Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: an epidural, I just loved being able to feel it because I was like, this is what our bodies are made to do. I want to be able to have some physical attachment. To what I'm doing right now. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And for me, it was really incredible and powerful. And because it was COVID, it was just so locked down and so intimate Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and so like lovely. And we didn't push as long as we pushed with Westlyn. But but yeah, she was born at seven at night on Christmas Day, and all the while we were getting videos of my mom had Westlyn, and so we're getting videos of Westlyn opening her Christmas presents and coming down. Here on Christmas morning and looking around and realizing Merelise: No Kathryn Boyd Brolin: that we were there and that she was getting a baby sister for Christmas. And I was just like seriously, like that that alone. No, seriously. Merelise: For Christmas. I just got full chills. You're never gonna be able to top that Christmas. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I was just like, this baby, if she's here on Christmas, that must mean that she's special. You know, she's got the most special birthday ever. Yeah, yeah. And Merelise: A gift in so many ways. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and again with the postpartum stuff went back under water. back under. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And I just thought after that first go-around, I've learned so much. I know now Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: what I'm doing. I can change a diaper in my sleep. I know exactly when to feed him, exactly when to change him. I know I know everything, I thought. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And then went back under again. And it was just it was so wild because I had this glorious person come into my life who helped me with chapel in those first two weeks because Josh had to go to work in Santa Fe pretty quickly after she was born. Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: which, you know, we all felt sad about, but also it was Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: part of the deal. And so she came to help me and she and I I she she was just exactly what I n needed and didn't know that I needed and I didn't want Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: her here at first. She would come here and she'd be like, okay, like let me take her. You need to go sleep now. And I'd be like, you're allowed to have her from nine to ten. PM Merelise: Ha ha. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and then you will bring her back to me. And again, I'm so blessed and so lucky that I was able to have somebody to help me in that way for two weeks. I Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: know that. But everything in me was just saying, I I only I only want to do this myself. I know I've got my family Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: here. I know it was it was like the opposite circumstances from what we did with Westland where we had nobody around and we really had Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: to work it out on our own to I have so many people around who are willing and wanting to help me and I'm so grateful for all of that. But all of a sudden I didn't want anybody here with me. It was like the Merelise: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: most impractical It was like so messy, so confusing. I'm like, wait, this is why we changed it up. This is why we came here. Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Why is my brain now moving the opposite direction? It was almost like trying to hit a moving target. I could not pin down what I needed and when I was told what I might need, I was very resistant to that support. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: It was really bizarre. And it's I guess we can call it hormones. I don't know. I still don't know. But it yeah. Merelise: Hormonal, I don't know. It's irrational. I mean, yeah, I I remember just feeling like in both of my postpartum. The second one was easier, but with both of them, I remember just sitting on the sofa and being so happy, like knowing I was so happy, but just sobbing and also feeling this just like deep pit of like something I couldn't even name, you know, Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah. Merelise: and it's just it's kind of irrational, illogical. Like it's it's just a wild time. It's a wild time. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: It is. It's a wild time. 'Cause you're welcoming in the unknown and that Merelise: Yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: is very scary and also Merelise: Yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: so happy at the same time. It's like Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: it's it's everything all at once. And Merelise: Yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And just when you feel like you got it, something new comes along, you know? Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And and you can never really pinpoint exactly where you're gonna be on a day, especially when you're factoring in the practical things, like have you slept, have you eaten? Do you have, Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: you know, anybody to call or anybody to come and sit with you? Or how's, Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: you know, how's your husband doing? You know, that's a whole how's your other child doing? That's Merelise: How's your other child doing? Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: a whole other piece of the equation. Like, you know, how's your How's your partner doing? Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Because your partner has watched you go through all of this stuff, Merelise: Right. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: all this physical stuff, and worried about Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: you and wanted everything to be okay. And then they're blessed with the gift of the baby. And then Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: that's probably an insane journey to have. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And I've talked to Josh a a lot about it. Like I Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: remember after Westlyn was born, I started crying, and I was like, I'm so sorry that you're never gonna be able to do this. Meaning like physically give birth. Like I was so Merelise: Like give birth. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: torn up that he was never gonna be able to do that. And Merelise: No. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and so to watch him bond with West London Chapel. in his own ways Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: were is just one of the best things about all of this. It's one of the best things about life for me. I'm very Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: grateful for that. but yeah, trying to navigate it all is really interesting and and a lot. So Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And it's so and it's so cool. I feel like it makes you a more understanding and empathetic person. I've got I've got a lot of people around me who are like, you know, in their respective levels of parenting and about to give birth or just pregnant or having just, you know, little kids or whatever. Merelise: Mm. Just finished having babies. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah, just finished having babies and that's a whole thing. Like no matter where you are in the journey, if you're struggling to get pregnant, I've got people in my life who are struggling to get pregnant, wherever you are in that journey. It's so full of the unknown. And I think like Merelise: Mm, mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I don't know, I feel like I communicate with women on a different level than I did before because of it, you know. Yeah, it's it's so Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I totally agree. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and now we've got five and seven year old and I'm just like, so all of that, all of that, all of this middle of the night, am I am I doing this okay? Am I doing the best Merelise: Wake ups. I know. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: job for them? You know, it starts to become just part of you, you know. Yeah, it all serves its purpose 'cause it just makes you more of a I don't know, a s strong, capable person. There's so Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: much proof in the pudding that you are a strong, capable, full human Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: when you go on the journey of wanting to become a parent and if you're blessed enough to become one and then what happens thereafter. It's like no matter where you are on that spectrum, it's very life affirming. You know what I mean? Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: this is so funny talking to you for this long and not hearing much from you. Like I I wanna hear have Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: you done your birth story? Your first episode Merelise: I've done so I've done I've done my first. The first episode was my first son, and ha Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Okay, that's f okay. Merelise: I haven't done my second yet. I think I'm gonna do it on for his second birthday, which is this August. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Gosh, yes. I wanna hear it's so like I understand that you wanna hear from others on their birth stories, but I really wanna talk to you about yours and your whole experience 'cause it's Yeah. Okay. Merelise: I mean, I love it. I can talk about it all day. I like and it's funny just talking to other people too. It triggers like things that about both my birth stories that I feel like I didn't even say, like in Kit's episode. Maybe we'll do like a part two one day. I don't know. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah, I would love that. I would Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: love I would love to do like coverage on cr this stage. Having like school age kids. 'Cause that's a Merelise: Yeah. Yes, yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: whole different thing. Merelise: my gosh, completely different. something Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah. Merelise: I do want you to talk about today though is I'd love for you to talk a little bit about how you named your girls because they have such beautiful and unique names. And I remember after Chapel was born, either you or Josh posted about her name and it was just I mean, you're both so good with words and like Josh is such a poet and but if you could just talk a little bit about that, I'd love to hear that. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Westlyn, this sounds very contrived, but it's not. She it her name came to me in a dream. I'm not kidding. I was in Hawaii with Josh, we were on our baby moon, and we hadn't named her yet. And I just thought, it's gonna come to me in Hawaii. I know it. And so I woke up and I had thought I just had a dream and her name was West. I loved the name West. And it's also like indicative of like my whole life journey of coming from the South and moving to the West. But then L Y N is kind of a common theme in my family and kind of a southern thing, you know. Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: People have Len on the end of their names a lot here. So I Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: just decided to blend them, Westlyn rain. And then we were sitting at a cafe in Hawaii and decided that we were gonna call her Rain Because Rain Over Me, it's one of our favorite songs by The Merelise: Hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Who was playing on the speaker at at this cafe in Hawaii, and we just thought Reign R-E-I-G-N, Westland Reign That's where it's gonna, that's what her name's gonna be. And then at our wedding, we had had Rain Over Me play, the cellist at our wedding, played Rain Over Me as I walked down the aisle. And so it just Merelise: Ugh. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: made sense that we would call her Rain. And yeah, so Westland Rain is one of my absolute favorite names. In the whole world. I'm so glad it's it's her name. Merelise: So cool. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: And then Chapel, I think we were like maybe eight months along before we named Chapel. I had Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: known of a girl named Chapel when I was growing up in Atlanta. She was younger than me and she spelled it different. I think it was C-H-A-P-P-E-L-L. Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: But we were going down the list of names, and the name Chapel was mentioned and And we loved it. And the reason why we love it so much is because Josh and I have We have this tradition of just wherever we are in the world, whenever we're traveling, we always find like the nearest chapel. And that was Merelise: Mm-hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: pre pr you know, pre dates getting pregnant with her or going down you know, the going into our parenting journey, but we always find Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: the nearest chapel and we just walk in, we say a prayer, and that's what we do. And so all over the world we've gone into little chapels wherever we can find them and it just made sense that we would name her chapel and Merelise: That's a beautiful ritual. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah, it is. So it's named after that that ritual. she's she's the absolute coolest human on planet Earth, along with Westlyn. They're so so different and so beautifully poetic in their own right. but yeah, she's she's my little firecracker, my little Capricorn baby. And then Westlyn Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: is a Scorpio and she's very mystical, mysterious. She keeps it all Merelise: Mmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: like behind the veil and Merelise: Yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Just the best. What about your kids? What signs are Merelise: so, Kathryn Boyd Brolin: your kids? Merelise: so Kit is a Gemini like me, and we are like, Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Okay. Merelise: we are like this, like we have the same soul, I'm convinced. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Hm. Merelise: And then Ford is a Virgo, which is so interesting, because I don't know a lot about Virgos. Like, it's like one of the signs I feel like I don't have a lot of Virgos in my life. So Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Mm. Merelise: I'm still like figuring him out. He's fascinating. He's like typical second child in that he's like really kind of like spicy and funny and just like wild, you know? Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I feel like second children usually are. They're like spicier. Mm-hmm. Merelise: Right, exactly. Yes. So I don't know how the Virgo part is going to come into it, but Chris is a Scorpio. And so when you said Westlund was a Scorpio, was like, I know Scorpio as well. They are so interesting, intense and like deep and Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Ugh it's such an interesting Yeah. Yes. Merelise: yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: It's such an interesting sign. If like if if it's what they say it like what that sign Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: really means and they follow it, it is so cool. Some of my c my most favorite people are Scorpios. Cause they're just Merelise: Yeah, what are you and Dosh? Kathryn Boyd Brolin: cool. I'm a Libra because yeah, I love balance. Merelise: Okay. That's right. You said that earlier. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I love balance. I love everybody to be happy. We're Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: good. I think that's I think that's what Libras are usually. And then Josh is he's February 12th, so he's Aquarius. Merelise: Okay. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Aquarius, right? Yeah. Spicy. Spicy. Merelise: Yeah, Creative. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Creative. Like Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: very, very forge their own path, leaders. Merelise: Hmm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Great with words, great with language. Matt checks out. Merelise: Sounds like him. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: He yeah, he's a he's a fireball of a human and he's so much fun to be around. Like he Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I think one of his friends had said this about him at some point. Like if if I was going to war, you're the one that I'd want with me. That's how I feel about him. Like Merelise: Yeah. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: he is the one you want in the trenches with you. He's just he's the leader, you know. Yeah. Merelise: What a compliment. I would love to just hear his perspective too one day on like experiencing fatherhood at two such different stages of life, because my dad was really similar. My brother was born when my dad was 20, and then I was born when my dad was 50. And Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Mm. Mm. Merelise: I think Josh is like kind of similar, right? Ish? Like time span? Yeah. And so Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Merelise: I don't know, I just, you know, I would love to hear another. father's perspective on what that was like. And It's just so interesting when you experience, I feel like those big life events like fatherhood becoming a father and when you're in two such different periods of your life. so interested. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: You know what I really look forward to is when my girls are older and Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: all four of our kids sitting around talking about that. Yeah. Like Merelise: Josh. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: what it was like when Trevor was five versus how it was when Chapel was five. Like that's Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: gonna be really, really cool to hear about. And I kind of have a feeling that it's gonna be very similar in a way, because Merelise: Mm, you think? Kathryn Boyd Brolin: I think Josh has always been and I can't speak for his kids obviously, but I you know, I think he's always been a very adventurous, very wild at heart person and Merelise: Mm. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: d throws throws the manual away and Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: is just like I'm gonna do what I feel like is best in the moment. I had I had this this video of myself talking. I was like I'm twenty-two days away from my pregnant from my due date with Chapel. I cannot get Westlyn to sleep. Westlyn will not sleep. She's waking up three times a night. It's very challenging. Every time I put her down, she doesn't wanna she doesn't want to go to sleep. I'm I'm I'm really having a hard time. And then four days later, I'm like, so Josh decided that he was now going to take the reins and put her to sleep. And he had probably been asking me for that for a while. And I was probably putting Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: up the stiff arm just because I was in that state of I can do everything. And and it's the video journal of me saying, So he talked to her and said the most beautiful words, and of course I'm like spying on the little camera, and he's saying the Merelise: yeah, obviously. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: most beautiful words and he's like and you're safe and everything's okay and you're gonna get the best night's sleep and she went right to sleep and slept all through the night and he it's just his like soothing nature you know he's Merelise: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: like soothing and it's like I got your back and Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: and so I have a feeling that all four of our children would say that you know that they got that from him. Merelise: Yeah, that's amazing. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Whether or not there was a lot of like let's go here and let's go there. I don't know. because Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: he certainly loves to do that with the littles. Like we're going Merelise: Yeah. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: surfing. Like get in the car we're going surf you know, he's very he's very structureless sometimes. And I love that too. So it's just Merelise: Adventurous. Yeah. That's so beautiful for childhood. That's, mean, it's amazing. It's amazing anyways, but especially incredible for childhood to just have that like, that spirit surrounding them of like adventure and, you know, just go with the flow. It's so cool. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah, yeah. Like we will not let things get stale. We will not Merelise: Ugh. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: let things get too structured and birote because there's so much discovery to be had. So let's go find it. Merelise: Yeah. Yes. I know, I always like to wrap up by bringing it back to birth. And I always Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah. Yes. Merelise: ask my guests to describe birth in three words, just whatever comes to mind first thing. Yes. Yes. Yes. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: my gosh. Magical, scary, life affirming. That's four words, but we need a lot of hype in there. Yes. Merelise: We can do a little hyphen. We can do a little hyphen. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: It's I mean, how do you sum it up in just three words? But that that to me covers it pretty good. Merelise: You know, yes. It's interesting, always interesting to hear what people say, because I agree it's so hard to sum it up in three words, but I feel like it's always kind of like those, it's like that gut feeling for everyone, like whatever the three words are, you know? And so I love that. But yes. Well, Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Yeah, yeah. Merelise: thank you so much for doing this. It was so good to see your face and I loved hearing this. Come on, I'm right down the street. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: my gosh. I know, it's so good to see yours. Now I just wanna come over and hang out. We're gonna do that soon, okay? I'm doing it. I'm coming over. Thank you for having me. Merelise: anytime, anytime, Kathryn All right. Well, you've been listening to the Arrivals podcast until next time. I'll just stop recording. Kathryn Boyd Brolin: Bye. Bye.