Latest / Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories / Your Child’s Anxiety Isn’t the Enemy | Jennifer Cohen Harper

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Your Child’s Anxiety Isn’t the Enemy | Jennifer Cohen Harper · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Inchstones Today we are talking about something every parent has encountered, some lawyer form anxiety in our children. And I think that we have an instinct as parents often to make it stop.
• 0:16
  Speaker B: We.
• 0:16
  Speaker A: We try to reassure or we reason internally. We say, you're okay. You're okay. You know, there's nothing to worry about. And we want to remove that feeling because watching our children struggle with it is so deeply hard for us too. But my guest here today is gonna talk about what if the goal isn't to eliminate anxiety? My guest is Jennifer Cohn Harper, founder of Little Flower Yoga and an educator at her core who has spent years upon years helping families understand anxiety, mindfulness, nervous system regulation. And she's also leading navigating anxiety in children through the Omega Institute this week. And I wanted to bring her here specifically to help us understand what anxiety looks like and actually looks like inside a child's body and what children need from us when they're overwhelmed. We're going to talk about why take a deep breath. Doesn't always work. And the relationship. I know and Jen knows. And everyone listening. I know deeply, inherently knows that the relationship between sensory overwhelm and anxiety, and there's a very, very thin line between accommodating that fear and helping a child build capacity to move through it. And that is so foundational to my work, that idea of moving through things. And maybe the goal isn't raising children who are never gonna feel anxious. Maybe it's simply helping them slowly discover that they can feel this and move through it. And my favorite thing to say is, and I'm still safe. So, Jen, it is a pleasure to welcome you here to Inchstones Thank you
• 1:50
  Speaker B: so much for having me. Sarah, it's so nice to meet you and learn about your work. I'm really excited for this conversation.
• 1:57
  Speaker A: So let's dive in about your work with Omega, because that was what drew us together. Your Omega workshop is Navigating anxiety in Children. And I love the word navigating because it really isn't about eliminating anxiety. What could you tell me? Parents really most misunderstand when our immediate goal, our reactionary goal, is make it go away. Let me make this go away.
• 2:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. You know, we worked really hard to think about, you know, in the development of that course, how to. How to frame what we were really trying to do. Because, of course, everybody wants to get rid of anxiety.
• 2:36
  Speaker A: It's the a. It's the a word of our. Of our lives. You know, all of us. All of us read Scarlet Letter. Growing up, I think this is the A that we're all dealing with. Yes, yes.
• 2:45
  Speaker B: And it's understandable. Terrible feeling. And when we watch our children struggling with anxiety, it's. It's heartbreaking often. And of course it's completely natural that we want to take that experience away, especially when our perception is that they're experiencing anxiety about something that they don't actually need to be worried about. And the thing that I think is so important for us all as parents, as educators, as anybody working with children, living with children, like, needs to remember is that anxiety is information. Anxiety is a normal part of everyday life for all of us. It's an emotional experience. It's an embodied experience. Now, of course, there's degrees, there's levels, there's overwhelm. But if we start to tell a story to our children about how anxiety is something to get rid of. Rid of that story, if we tell it through our actions, our behavior, our choices, our words, if we tell them that story, that story becomes a belief, right. And then. Right. Belief quickly becomes, I need to get rid of a part of myself. Right. If anxiety, part of who we are, that idea that we have to get rid of our anxiety is like we have to disconnect from a part of ourselves. That part of ourself is bad, is not wanted, is upsetting. Who care about me? And oftentimes, if we focus on getting rid of anxiety, right. What often happens is our kids start to disassociate. Instead of learning to integrate that experience through it, expand their window of tolerance, they start to feel anxiety and go, oh, that's the thing I'm not supposed to feel and try to cut themselves off from it. And I don't think that's what any of us want for our kids.
• 4:34
  Speaker A: And no, and I love the phrase, you know, anxiety as information. What a simple and beautiful way that I think children would also be able to latch onto. Because information is human, right? What's. That's a very human. We shouldn't push away information.
• 4:52
  Speaker B: We should integrate information in talking about anxiety. Oftentimes kids experience of anxiety or our experience of anxiety is like, anxiety is coming. I need to get rid of this. We can reframe that in our own mind. I'm experiencing anxiety. Helping me see something that's important to me, that's giving me information about something that's. To me, time to get my A game on now. There's lots of nuance in there, but that.
• 5:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, and this, this question felt really foundational when I knew that we were going to talk is then how do we distinguish then the anxiety that is just an appropriate, natural, you know, human response even from childhood to adulthood and then the anxiety that is crippling and disruptive enough that the support needed is much more conscious from a parenting facilitating, you know, position. Because that's something that, that, that my community that is going to be listening in and, and hanging on every word you're saying is going to feel deeply.
• 5:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I know why. I want to minimize the experience of overwhelming anxiety that impacts our day to day ability to function. And I tend to think that all anxiety in children needs, needs support. It doesn't always need accommodation, it doesn't always need us to like smooth the way. But I, I don't ever want children to feel like they're walking through something challenging alone until that walk feels like it's within their capacity. So even when it's day to day anxiety about things that may we know they have the capacity to navigate. Like I don't want them to feel like they're in it alone. And that's a big part work that I do. And the, the teachings of the course is how do we show up as, as a partner, as a support, as a collaborator, as someone who can help our children like see and access their own sense of personal power, their own strength without like doing it for them. Right. That's really important. And then when our kids are experiencing anxiety that is overwhelming their ability to cope, right? That is creating a situation where they're not able to experience the quality of life that they deserve. They're not able to be in spaces of learning and, and, and, and really engage with the world in the way that every child deserves to be able to engage. Then we might want to look at the environment, we might want to strategic, structured support and think about ways that we can help them expand slowly in a way that doesn't overwhelm them. So oftentimes we don't know, right? Oftentimes we don't know for our kids what is causing the anxiety. We don't even know how to recognize if something is anxiety. But what my experience has been is that even if I don't know the source of a challenge, there are two things that always, always make anxiety worse. Okay. We can stress those, that even if we're like I have no idea what's going on right now, if we can think about those things, then we can start to offer support and often find the origin of the problem and that is overwhelm and disconnection. Right. So when I feel like I don't know what's going on right here, like anxiety is rising, behaviors are seem disconnected from reality. I don't know how to help. Oftentimes our impulse is to reassure the child, to try to talk to the thoughtful brain and help them see that they're safe. They don't have the cognitive capacity to take that information in. In that way. So for me, what I always want to do first is think, how can I reduce overstimulation? And how can I increase their sense of connection, their sense of I'm not in this alone. And those two things might look different for different kids.
• 8:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, I would love to hear some examples of that because I had this incredible conversation with a fellow autism mom who has children that are on more higher functioning autistic and myself. And then we both have teenage daughters as well as you too, and those kind of situations present so differently. So I would love to hear sort of maybe some, you know, some examples of that live.
• 9:17
  Speaker B: Absolutely. So reducing overstimulation often is the things that we do, you know, we know can be overstimulating. Bright lights, loud noises, the number of people in the space.
• 9:30
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 9:30
  Speaker B: Oftentimes, sometimes, especially for some kids who are really sensitive to things being a little too people y the desire stimulation, but increased connection can feel like they're fighting against each other. So we'll talk about in it. But for most kids, reducing overstimulation involves reducing the sensory input, reducing the number of things that their mind and their senses need to take in and integrate at a time. Sometimes. Sometimes for some kids, especially kids who, you know, I have a daughter who, if I say, okay, let's like, move into a quieter space, she might get very angry with me in those moments.
• 10:13
  Speaker A: She doesn't want to move. Oh, she doesn't want to do what I.
• 10:16
  Speaker B: Right. So sometimes it involves actually, this is gonna sound weird, but sometimes it involves actually giving them one sensory stimulus to focus in on to kind of reduce the volume of the rest. So maybe like a bowl of ice cream that they really like the flavor of or putting on a song that's really compelling to them. And it's not so much about, I'm trying to distract you. I'm trying to. I'm trying to give you a sense sensory experience to anchor to so that you're not trying to internalize, like every sense that's possible right now. Right. So sometimes reducing overstimulation for some kids, it works really well to take them into an environment that's more supportive for them, for other kids, if they're going to really get like, resistant to being asked to change environments. It's like, can we change the environment? But if not, can we give them something to anchor to? Right?
• 11:13
  Speaker A: So that is such a great. I'm just thinking of so many different ways that I, that I would do it, but I'm sure everyone listening would do it differently. But that the agency on that, like, I'm thinking, okay, for me, if that happened to my 13 year old and it was in the upstairs and we're in our bedrooms and the younger two are asleep, there's a reason why I have a Duterra lavender on my bedside stand. Right. And you just like, let's center here for a second. It does. It pulls her into the moment.
• 11:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's so important. And one of the ways that we know we're safe, one of the ways that our unconscious brain knows we're safe is by taking in information through our senses. But our nervous system starts to escalate when anxiety starts to spike, when we start to believe we're not safe. Often what happens is we start shutting down the information. We get overwhelmed. There's so much coming at us. It's like our system has to block it. All right? And if we can find something that cuts through, right? It helps us orient, it helps us know are like if we can find a sensory experience. And sometimes that's why going for a walk works so well, right? It's like we're moving our body and we're taking in sensory information at a pace that's manageable, like a pace that we evolve to be able to take in. Right? But whether it's essential oil or a familiar song or wrong taste that's familiar or a movement pattern that feels familiar, we don't want to introduce a lot of like, new movement that finding one sensory anchor can often unlock a sensory system that's gone a little like, I can't take in anymore. It's like that I can pay attention to and orient to what's real right now.
• 13:03
  Speaker A: I love. Listen, you. You hit my. One of my favorite words in the entire English language, which is orient and orientation. I use it so much in my own work and I love the ability to do something. I think, you know, when any of us experience this, like you said, there's so many variables that are swirling and it could come down to something as simple as the knowledge that sensory input is so powerful, but not that we have to place multiple Verizon just Yeah, Just pick one and trust yourself to know your child in that capacity. And because there's something so beautiful about the connectivity of you being the one to lead and just suggest that, and then it works. I would guess that in your work, that actually then proves the integration process of deescalation of the anxiety and then being, you know, the parent that's leading and helping the reorientation process.
• 13:52
  Speaker B: Absolutely. And orienting is always the first step of my methodology, no matter who I'm working with. Child adults, and things are going sideways. We need to know where we am, where we are. We need to know where am I, what's real right now. So for me, as a parent, when things are going sideways with my kids, one of the things that is more challenging for me, and I think for a lot of us, is remembering, like, I need to orient myself first as a kid. So if everything in me is sending a different message than what I'm asking my kid to do, that's not gonna work out so well either. So I need to find a sensory anchor, and then I can go to my kid. And what is helpful for me might not be helpful for that child. It might be something different, but the process is the same. I'm first before I'm trying fix anything, change anything, tell a different story, shift a mindset. I'm orienting what's real right now.
• 14:47
  Speaker A: Where, you know, I. I was at a functional medicine conference this weekend, and amazingly brilliant practitioner was talking about pans and pandas, and one of the final things that she said about her protocols for parents was actually the caregiver regulation and how important that is to the success of a child's path to health. And you know, how much helping a child really is based on the adult's own nervous system. And sometimes when the parent unintentionally. Actually, all the time, we can unintentionally communicate that this. That this is scary for us. And so even when we're trying to desperately reassure them that they can move through this too, what do you find is something of a. Of the quickest way to remind parents that before they even attempt to help their child. Is there. I don't know, a phrase or is there. I guess for me, it is like, orient orientation. Like, Sarah, stop, pause, orient here, know what's reality, and then take the next step. Is there anything that you specifically teach on that can help others in that moment?
• 15:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, thank you for asking. And this is such a. This is such an important part of that second piece that I was talking about, about helping Reduce a sense of disconnection. And I think that for our kids, oftentimes we're showing up trying to help them. If not only are, if we're dysregulated. I think, you know, we have a lot of conversations about what it means for us to be regulated and then be able to co regulate with our kids. I'm happy to talk about that, but, but I think that even when we do have the capacity to take a pause, take our own breath, go for a walk if we need to, we ourself and show up to our kid in a regulated way, if what we are unconsciously communicating to our kid is that I'm, I need you to change what's happening. Right, Right. Then we're putting our children in a position where they have to choose between the experience of safely having the internal experience of the moment or their relationship. Right. And it might not be attic to us, but for a kid, their core sense of safety is found in relationship. So anything that threatens the relationship is a threat. So if my anxiety makes you uncomfortable, that's potentially a threat to the relationship,
• 17:15
  Speaker A: which increases and then, and then obviously, then, obviously then, then morphs or, or changes the attachment and the type of attachment that you have.
• 17:23
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 17:24
  Speaker A: You know, and I know even all of this talk can be so I, you know, it can also generate anxiety just trying to take this all in. But I think it's so beautiful when we can sit down and realize that a lot of times we have to, we do have to remember whether we're just starting this journey, learning about our own, you know, ability to regulate ourselves, or we've been practicing for years. It's a practice. And I, and I always want to share this with parents because I have so many that come to me and say, Sarah, you sound so blah, blah, blah. And I'm sure Jen, you feel the same way. Like Jen, how do you do it? And it said, this is ne. I never stop learning. I never stop practicing. This, this is. And, and I, and I mess up a lot. I did. This morning my 13 year old said to me, she goes, mom, can you just listen for a second? And I said, gosh, sweetie, you're so right. I am way ahead of myself this Monday morning. Well, I know what you have to say.
• 18:09
  Speaker B: That's incredible that she was able to say that. I know.
• 18:12
  Speaker A: Which then I felt like that's the win here, right?
• 18:15
  Speaker B: 100%, that's the win. And you built that, right? You built that in your relationship. That she say that to you is so incredible. And it's such an empowering thing for her, and it's so supportive of you. And when that happens, if we can say, like, thank you, thank you, and our kids have the experience of, like, sometimes I need the support, sometimes you need the support. Like, we're supporting each other. You know, no one wants to feel like someone who needs to be fixed all the time. But if we can mutually supportive, if our kids can have the experience of being a helper, you know, the way, like, anxiety is. Like, the experience of anxiety is often feels like, I can't do this, I can't do this, I can't do this. And nothing counteracts that story, like feeling competent, like, feeling like I can do stuff. And often helping someone else really builds that sense of competence.
• 19:06
  Speaker A: Without a doubt. You know, that's. Oh, that's a great, great line, Jen, too, because, you know, specifically in the autism parenting world, unfortunately, is built in a lot of grief and a lot of failure mindset because we are so typically thought of being a successful parent by what your children and how they reach milestones. And obviously, it's the center of my work and inch zones is to. Is to dis, you know, disarm that mentality because there's still such growth in the smallest of wins. And I. I wonder if, you know, work. Being able to work through that and having competence, even when things feel so stacked against what society has conditioned you to believe is success as a parent, specifically in the anxiety and regulatory place of a mother, in the. In the family system, you're never. You're never starting. You're. You're never, you know, going to master, and you're never just a beginner. It's such a beautiful place to begin again. And I always want to give that back to parents because specifically in this community, they feel so low on their ability to gain. And. And I know that, you know, control's a funny word, obviously, because too much can be a negative as well. But, you know, talk to me about, like, what that mindfulness, you know, can do to even just pause and stay still. And then how does that look different for the child that you're helping? Cause mindfulness kind of can be different for the adult versus the child.
• 20:32
  Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, you know, for parents who are in this space where, like, you say there's always this, like, another milestone and of the way that you, you know, reinterpreted that and. And talk about, like, really celebrating the Inchstones, I think, you know, one of the things that can very practically help us do that is reminding ourselves that very, very few of the situations that feel like an emergency in our body as a mother are actually urgent in the sense that they need to be addressed in that exact moment. We live in this culture where it's like, been told to us that if there's a behavior that your child is demonstrating, that is not okay. That is not working. Yeah, exactly. Not okay. That is not. That is not something you want them to continue. You need to deal with it right in that moment. I think we can feel so much pressure when our kids are overwhelmed, or if our kids are fighting with each other or something, something's going sideways, to know exactly how to handle it right then and there. And we feel like if we don't do that, or if we make another choice or if we try to handle it and it gets worse that we. And like, now that's a failure and we just have to wait for the next thing. And I think all situation we've set up for ourselves, you know, I think very few things that happen with our kids need to be handled in, like, the way that, like, teaches them how to do it better in that moment. Often that's not possible. For me, what I want in those really hard moments, what I'm like holding myself to is that my child doesn't feel like they're in it alone. I'm to teach the skill in that moment that they're overwhelmed. I'm not trying to change their behavior unless it's unsafe in that moment. I'm trying to be as present as I can be. And I'm trying to send the message to my child, like, not necessarily with my words, but with my heart, that whatever's going on right now with you, it doesn't scare me. Right?
• 22:46
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 22:47
  Speaker B: Can't send me away with aviator now sometimes. Now I have two very different children. One of them, like, the message of, you can't send me away with this behavior, like, is like, I'm right here next to you, and she wants that. She can be screaming in my face, and I can be like, is it okay if I give you a hug? Yes. Yes.
• 23:09
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:09
  Speaker B: That's the physical closeness. I have another daughter who. The way I tell her you can't send me away is actually by giving her a little space, but not. So it might be walking in and giving her a snack and stepping back, hanging at the edge, not making too much eye contact. And really, really important that when we think about increasing a felt sense of connection, we're doing it in a way that the child can actually absorb, that they don't have to protect themselves against. Against that, yes, with our togetherness. So I think for parents, I think as things escalate and like kind of the natural rise and fall of intensity throughout the day, if we can take kind of a two step approach to like, okay, in the really intense moment, my job is to make sure my kid knows they're not in it alone. And when things are in a more receptive state, then we can think about what was it that instigated this situation? Are there overstimulation? Is there things that I missed that were overstimulating? Or is there a skill that we need to build? Is there a break that we needed to take before we did this thing? Can we build up tolerance so that we can maybe step into a similar situation in the future without it being so hard? But we can't talk the child down with more information in those moments. So I think separating the I'm here for you and that's my role right now from the let's build our window of tolerance. Let's build the skills we need, including the mindfulness based skills to meet these moments in a way that isn't so scary. Those two things need for me need to be separated in order for me to not feel the constant pressure that sends my anxiety spiking.
• 25:06
  Speaker A: Right. You know, I, you know, I, I, I'm sure as anyone, you know, gets older we, you know, we come into this, this motherhood role with these, you know, little bitty babies and we just have the, you know, the glistening of just like beautiful, you know, these past and these memories that we think we're going to make and you know, motherhood hits this friction point, you know, as they beautifully develop and as someone who has children that atypically develop pretty profoundly atypically typical development and have children that can talk through, the more I'm realizing that the irony is that it's the non verbal, it's the actual non speaking things that will end up becoming most resonant to become this inner resource. And I, I was lucky enough to have parents who, who did this. You know, I'm a in my early mid-40s and my parents. When you realize that how much modeling it was, it was not what they said it was how they lived and what they did to, to support that inner resource that, that grew. And I think that's what you're saying now too. It's that it's separate. It's both in the moment, but it's also how Then it is thought about and I guess process and, and maybe metabolized going forward. And that's why I think, I'm sure that, you know, starting with Little Flower Yoga so many years ago, it's a practice. It's absolutely a practice. And it never ends.
• 26:21
  Speaker B: It doesn't, it doesn't. It is an ongoing practice and it's beautiful for our kids to see that because that, you know, we're not doing it right or wrong. If we can really integrate the idea. Mindfulness as a practice, relationship is a practice, communication is a practice, is. That's always dynamic because every relationship is different. Right? So we can, we can practice in one context and you know, the next week we're different and the people we're engaging with are different. And if our kids can see us being gentle with ourselves in that way, returning to skills like noticing what's happening in our body, doing a little body scan. Okay, what's happening? Information do I need taking in what's around us. You know, one of my favorite practices for adults and children is so simple. Something called layers of skills. Sound. And it's just furthest away sound you can find. Little closer, a little closer, a little closer. And then listening to the sounds happening inside your own body and it's like amazing. I know it's out there. Now it's safe to come a little closer. Now it's safe to come a little closer. You know, that's a practice that we can keep coming back to as adults. It's also something we can share with our kids. When I, when there's a moment, my kids look at me and they're like, what are you doing? And I tell them I needed a minute, I need a myself, right? And they see that that's a normal part.
• 27:50
  Speaker A: Yes, that you're doing it too. You're doing it too. And, and you can smile through it. Even though it's a conscious choice. You know, actually I'm glad you brought this up. That your kids, look, you're like, what are you doing? And you're just practicing what you're, what you preach, which is so beautiful. And I, today my daughter came in, I do that five minute, like, you know, you know, shaking, primal movement. And I'm at the end, I'm jumping. My 13 year old, you know, gives that look like, okay, okay, mom. I'm like, darlin', this is just me doing exactly what I talk to about you all the time. I'm moving all that energy through my body right now. You know, this sets me up so Wonderfully for the day. And I know it looks ridiculous, but here I am, and we can laugh about that. And I know that at 13, her brain is still forming, and she's gonna remember that. I know she will.
• 28:34
  Speaker B: In a way, it's almost like the weirder it looks, the more ridiculous it looks like the more likely they are to remember it. Right. Like, it's actually. I know, but I want it to catch their attention. Right? Yes.
• 28:47
  Speaker A: I want them to be curious as to why mom does that. Right?
• 28:51
  Speaker B: Yes. And I normalize that. Like, no matter how much you practice, you still need. It's like, you know, the teeth brushing. Like, we always compare mindfulness to teeth brushing. Like, you can't just do it really good a few times and then not do it. I want that normal for them, that the idea of moving through life in an engaged way means we're going to. We're gonna overreact to some things. We're gonna take some stuff personally that doesn't need to be. We're gonna misinterpret, you know, we're gonna miss a tune, and, you know, that's all a regular part of being alive in relationship. And what I. What I want to avoid is, you know, the kids that I live with, the kids that I work with, thinking that if you're good at something, it all looks even keel and down as a result. You know, oftentimes one of the biggest mis. You know, misinterpretations of the idea of mindfulness is that it's about calming down.
• 29:50
  Speaker A: Right.
• 29:51
  Speaker B: I started working with schools is, like, 20 years ago now. I got so many calls, like, from schools who wanted to implement our programming because they. They wanted their kids to calm down. They wanted to change the behavior on the outside. And really, the work that, you know, the work that I'm doing that I'm so passionate about, isn't about calming down. It's not about constantly telling our nervous system that everything is fine, fine, fine, right? It's about developing the adaptability and the inner resources to meet whatever the world is. Presenting us with a nervous system that's adaptable, that's recognizable reality of the moment. And sometimes that means, like, shooting our adrenaline up and increasing our energy and, you know, making us pay attention. I don't want my kids to think that their body and their nervous system is working against them. And in the sense that things are supposed to be, like, calm all the time, that things are supposed to be okay all the time, be in control all the time. I. I think we're Actually taking away something really powerful, which is their capacity to trust their own instincts.
• 31:04
  Speaker A: Right.
• 31:05
  Speaker B: Their body to trust their nervous system to say, actually my body is working for me. Sometimes it, you know, be a little too protective. Sometimes it may be responding to old information. Some may be too much and I need support or backup or break. And that's all really reasonable. Right. But I don't connect my kids from the sense that they. They can trust themselves.
• 31:31
  Speaker A: I think it's the learn process of another favorite word of mine, discernment. You know, the earlier we can learn to discern what information our body is beautifully giving us and to own. Own that and learn. I mean, we're just all so unique in how it's being felt and processed that the. Just like anything, you know, with neuroplasticity, the younger that you incorporate that and learn the skill of discernment for your body, what a gift it is to both yourself and your child. You know, if parents are listening, Jen, you know, and can begin practicing really just one thing differently tomorrow. I mean, I guess, realistically, what's that Inchstones? What's that one thing that when their child, you know, becomes anxious, what would you want them to try?
• 32:15
  Speaker B: I think what I would want them to try is taking a moment to ask themselves, what is my role right now? Right.
• 32:23
  Speaker A: And just what is my role right now? Yeah.
• 32:29
  Speaker B: So that they can. Because every situation's different, every relationship is different, but when it's almost impossible for us not to have our own nervous system escalation when we see our children struggling. And for me, the quickest way to. To support myself is to activate my curiosity and to say, like, what is my role right now? And remember, it doesn't have to be all things in that moment. Right? There will be time.
• 33:01
  Speaker A: Right?
• 33:01
  Speaker B: There will be time. And for me, the vast majority of the time when I ask myself, what is my role right now? It's helping my child know they're not in it alone. Right. So not trying to change anything, just helping them know they're not in it alone. And that for me is so beautiful because the core kind of commitment. Right. That I parent is to being with. Right. Not not changing. Right. To being with. But that is so counter to almost all the messaging we get as parents and I think especially. Right. So for me, when I ask myself, what is my role right now? I want to make sure that my actions are aligned with my deepest intentions. Often not the same as, like my instinct to fix.
• 33:51
  Speaker A: There we go. And there's the great dichotomy in that. And it's the recognizing if that'll make you resoundingly make a better choice in the moment. Jen, thank you so much for this conversation. As I said before, you and I could talk for hours, and I love learning from you, and I cannot wait for more and more people to learn about your work and how it's evolved through the years, too, which is, again, is such a beautiful reminder to us as well as parents that our work in this space for our own, own family and our own children is a constant evolution, and we should be proud of that. I think what I'm taking away today is that, you know, anxiety isn't the enemy. Anxiety is not the enemy. And it is. It is our job. Our job as parents isn't to immediately make anything uncomfortable feeling disappear. And sometimes that work is just so much smaller than that. It's helping our children notice that what is happening in their bodies, being present without immediately trying to fix and knowing when the environment needs to change and we can gently help them tolerate more and more. I. This feels so connected. Oh, my gosh. So, so connected to what inch zones means to me. And you know, how progress is not. Might not be the child who suddenly doesn't just feel anxious anymore.
• 34:57
  Speaker B: Right.
• 34:58
  Speaker A: It's. That's not it. It's recognizing the feeling a little sooner. It's the inch zone of. Of accepting help. It's the instant of staying with something for in my world, just 10 to 15 seconds longer than they did before or recovering faster or getting on the bus with a little less of a, you know, behavioral reactivity, you know, recognizing. I felt this before, and I know something that helps me. So those small shifts are everything for everyone listening. Jen's Navigating Anxiety and Children course through the Omega Institute begins this Wednesday, September 16th. And it is a chance to take so much of what you and I touched on today and explore much more in a deeper way, how we can develop our children's healthier relationship with anxiety and the tools to navigate it. Jen, thank you for the work that you're doing and for sharing it with us today and for helping us think differently, how we can support every child in our lives.
• 35:50
  Speaker B: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, Sarah. It's been wonderful to talk with you.
• 35:54
  Speaker A: Fantastic. All right, everyone. Well, until next time here on the Inchstones podcast,