Latest / Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast / Feud: Capote vs. The Swans Recap of Episodes 6-8

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Feud: Capote vs. The Swans Recap of Episodes 6-8 · Drama, Darling: A Real Housewives Comedy Podcast

0:05
Drama, Darling Drama, Darling Drama, Darling. Wow, it's so great
0:20
to be back talking about feud with my friend. Shall I say, CZ?
0:27
Is that who you are today, Emily Easy? Yes, yes,
0:33
I'm wearing a a c Z color. I just went to Kenneth's give me
0:39
something young, young and fresh, and they did like Kate When he did
0:46
that to Kate young Kate and dressed her up like babe and brought her to
0:50
the mollowing shoot. He's like, oh my god, this is the seventies.
0:55
Who are you? Emily texted me and she's like, I'm so sorry.
1:00
I didn't get a chance. I can't do a costume today. So
1:03
and then I pop on and here she is full on blonde, which and
1:07
like just sort of a bedazzle collar. She's got white gloves on my glove
1:14
department and not my glove compartment, right, very apartment. You know what,
1:26
it really does take me back to, like why is it called a
1:30
glove compartment? Back in the day they used to put their gloves in there.
1:33
Yeah, you're driving gloves, You're driving gloves, and no longer this
1:37
was you know, such that that episode wi Will hats gloves and fete.
1:42
Yeah, what a great nod to a bygone era. You know, things
1:48
are changing and it was sad and I mean like from there and then all
1:52
the way to the end when they're at that auction and they're like, oh,
1:56
flip flops and an auction is class gone. I mean, I I
2:00
am not necessarily one to shy away from a nice pair of sweats and run
2:04
to the store. But I do have those moments much like them, where
2:07
I'm like, is nothing sacred? You know, can't we at least put
2:13
shoes on, like covered shoes on for an airplane flight, you know what
2:15
I mean? Like, there are certain things where I get a little bit
2:19
I can't imagine what those women would do if they lived in today's day and
2:22
age. I know. Well, let me also say safety first to all
2:25
the darlings. Don't wear open toed shoes when you're flying, because I have
2:30
watched people like drop us. I watched this woman get a suitcase dropped on
2:36
her foot and it just she had to go to the hospital and she was
2:39
wearing flip floss. But if she was wearing it like split the the I
2:44
don't want to get too graphic because look, we're all lady to lunch,
2:49
but we are ladies to lunch. I ruined her trip. But then I
2:53
was like, oh my gosh, that probably happens all the time. And
2:57
I was I'm sure the flight attendants that listen can definitely speak on this,
3:04
but that was one of their biggest tips is don't wear open toe shoes.
3:08
Oh that's that's I do remember this now, But you saw it firsthand or
3:14
shall I say first foot? Yes? I did, and I wear steel
3:20
toed boots. Now I am ready to fight. I treat it like a
3:27
factory, I don't you. Yeah so? And I also want to wear
3:30
sneakers because I need I might need to run. But that said, whenever
3:36
people complain about we don't dress nicely, I'm like, for the air for
3:39
airports, I'm like, you can still nobody's stopping you. You could still
3:44
put on your three piece banker's outfit, right, Oh I can't because no
3:51
one else is doing that. Put on your button down, put on a
3:53
crisp shirt, put on your flight suit, you know, whatever it is
3:58
you want to do. Buy a beautiful my mom hat. To this day,
4:01
my mom dresses like she is has always been so Oh my gosh,
4:09
put together from the jump, her little shoes, her little socks, she's
4:15
got her little pins on, her little brooches. I mean, I'm telling
4:18
you. Her nails are always done. She always has lipsticks, she always
4:23
has a full face. Good lord, no, she is unbelievable. This
4:29
okay, run circles around me when it comes to life, Like she's up
4:32
at five exercising every day. Oh my gosh, she's eighty two. That's
4:40
crazy. She has to be like an executive assistant. So she used to
4:44
be like to the president of this company and he ran for senate and he
4:48
was like a very he's a very amazing person in the community of like in
4:54
the Detroit area. You know, he really gives back. And anyway,
4:58
she was his executive assistant for a really long time. And just the little
5:02
suits and her like always put together. Mean, just the typewriter, that's
5:08
just like my mom's a tea so man. And so when they come to
5:11
visit, she has all of her little outfits. And meanwhile, it's like
5:15
vacation for me. So I'm never putting makeup on. I'm a total slob.
5:18
And I always feel like, am I really your daughter? Like how
5:24
do I not get what you have, you know, yeah, well,
5:29
I mean you got you're too busy looking for an old rag for your dad.
5:32
Thank you very much. I appreciate that. But you are always put
5:36
together though, Like I love your style. You always have that throwback vintage
5:41
look and and even just by default, you look dressier than most, so
5:45
I appreciate that about you. Oh yeah, I'm wearing cutoff sweatpants, so
5:49
I just want to put that out there. Speaking of putting that out there,
5:54
I got to put my cat outside this door, so let me pause
5:56
it. The cat's done in here, she's so you can imagine my delight.
6:00
Just you know, Emily with her costumes and just I love this era
6:05
though too. You know this style? Is this This is your favorite Araa
6:10
era, isn't it? Oh? Yes, sixties, fifties, sixties.
6:13
Well I'm going to take that back. It's more like the seventies into very
6:17
early eighties. Are you serious? No, you're lying. No, I
6:23
mean that's what I'm always wearing. That's what I'm wearing all those shirts and
6:26
stuff. Oh okay, yeah, I guess that's yeah. What do you
6:30
mean what was so shocking about that seventies being like just the big collars,
6:35
you know, the pointed collars. But when you say seventies, and you're
6:39
right, there's a major difference between kind of like a hippie thing and the
6:45
business were of the seventies. This classic like DVF and like that kind of
6:48
thing. Totally yes, But I love like office where ladies office wear from
6:54
the seventies was so cool. And you know, if you're not watching,
6:57
if you're not tier two, she shoulders into it natural. I mean what
7:05
I wouldn't give to work in an office with you in the late sixties,
7:11
early seventies and just be power bitches of that era. Oh my god,
7:15
just like loving life in our pantyhose, not being able to breathe from the
7:19
waist down. So I mentioned DVF and it reminds me that DVF is going
7:28
to have a limited addition collection in Target stores starting cool. I believe this
7:34
weekend. Wow, I can't believe. I didn't realize that. That's awesome.
7:40
Isn't that so cool? So I am I haven't literally marked on my
7:45
calendar so I can go and grab some stuff because I remember when Missoni had
7:50
limited edition stuff and you know, you just don't realize that it's going to
7:54
be there for a flash. And I remember getting this scarf that I use
7:58
when I was doing like old rachel Zo stuff, you know, and it
8:01
was so perfect. So it's such a great knockoff of like his like higher
8:05
end stuff. But anyway, I'm really hoping to find some great DVF cheaper
8:09
rap dresses. Well, you know, sometimes what happens with that is like
8:13
if you go to like, uh a more rural target, like that's where
8:18
I live. I live in the rural. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking
8:22
for it. And then then stuff also is like too experimental for people and
8:26
that it goes to the clearance rack. I sometimes like yes, but and
8:33
but I like I always appreciate it. Do you think that the rural era
8:37
rural area targets will get that collection or will they say, you know what,
8:43
we're too rural, We're not gonna do it. I don't know.
8:46
I mean it used to be all of them would get it. I'm going
8:48
to call. I'm in a call. I'm gonna call. I'm going to
8:52
call. I'm going to call after we talk. Not I'm calling that rural
8:54
like in terms of like yes, like maybe you're not downtown La but like,
9:01
you're still Los Angeles County, so I think you're safe, right,
9:03
you know what I mean? Like, so I think you're You're still within
9:09
the largest county in the world, in the country, so all right,
9:13
I think you're all right. I'm still gonna call I love all the fashions.
9:20
It's just so wonderful to watch on this show, boy Feud. We're
9:24
covering episodes six through eight. The best was yesterday after we stopped recording.
9:31
Amy said, I had to stop watching. I'm in the middle of seven
9:37
and it was so depressing and I was like almost crying. And then I
9:41
was like, huh, that wasn'tsad, And I was like, yeah,
9:45
I'm caught up what And you looked at me like a sociopath, which you
9:48
should have because I hadn't started seven yet. And then I was watching it
9:54
and I immediately texted you'd be like, Okay, I'm sorry, I haven't
9:58
watched. Uh that's funny, yeah, yeah, yeah, you really can't
10:07
be like oh my god. And was I right? It wasn't as depressing
10:11
depressing as I thought it was. It was rough, and let me tell
10:15
you, nobody does a high status woman dying episode better than Ryan Murphy take
10:22
the feud with Joan Crawford. Oh god, it's you ripped my heart out.
10:28
I know, that's what's wild. But these like these people who were
10:33
seemingly vapid, although really not, because I mean that's the whole point of
10:39
this, right, I mean, on some level, their their lives are,
10:41
as cz said it, way more than two dimensional. And his one
10:46
of his fever dreams that she didn't like the way that she was portrayed.
10:50
And and yet but on the surface, you're like thinking, these are terrible
10:54
mothers. They're you know, they're not. They're completely isolated from the real
11:01
world. They're living, you know, and in wealth, and you know,
11:05
money and appearance are all that matters. And yet here we are,
11:11
you know, just like crying over these people. And so it was a
11:16
fascinating turn of events for me because I just like it is a testament to
11:20
how the magic of cinema and storytelling and acting and direction can really be so
11:30
profound. Yeah, and it also just like, you know, you it's
11:37
so aspirational to live like this, and then when you see the walls come
11:43
down and then they see what this often happens in these stories, and then
11:48
you get like the real, real person, then of course you're gonna like
11:52
them unless yeah, assholes. Yeah that's true. At their core, these
11:58
gals were probably assholes, but I mean not at their core. I think
12:01
they had a large asshole level area around their core right right, yes,
12:09
the core exact medical terms, but then at their core, this series did
12:16
a good job of being like, yeah, well, maybe have a little
12:20
grace, and then they're dead and so that's really sad, I know,
12:24
and then all alert they're not caught up. I really do think that these
12:35
women were We didn't live in that era, but my gosh, outside of
12:39
a time of social media, and outside of the time before like Kardashian before
12:45
Madonna, before all of this, these were real celebrities, societal celebrities.
12:50
This was, as they said somebody in this show, it was like the
12:56
Golden Age of society, you know, I mean outside of like the beginning
13:01
of New York, you know, the Gilded Age, you know what I'm
13:05
saying. Yeah, it seems like this was the next big boom of that.
13:09
And then cut to like the Tinsey Mortimer Times and Paris Hilton. So
13:15
I think there are these different levels of societal booms where perhaps we will never
13:22
see them again because of the way social media is. But it is such
13:24
a bygone era and is fascinating to watch that and there that they're in their
13:28
own little circle and their own little bubble, insular, and yet they are
13:37
broadly like villainized and judged and also looked up to. And the lee rads
13:46
of well of it all and just the tie into all of these people are
13:50
amazing. And most of these ladies really lived quite a long time. Actually,
13:56
I mean, the only one who really died I mean obviously were Capoti
14:01
and Babe. But I well, Capoti wasn't that young, That's right,
14:05
he wasn't that young. But like, yeah, eighty four, though he
14:09
died in eighty four. And I'm talking like Lee Radziwill she died in twenty
14:13
nineteen. Oh yeah, you know, like c Z. I don't know
14:16
when cz died. But Joanne in the two thousands, Joanne Woodward died.
14:24
I don't she might even still be alive. Actually no, no, no,
14:26
she died in twenty fifteen. Oh, because that auction was oh I'm
14:31
sorry, okay, oh when was that auction that was in I think twenty
14:35
seventeen. Oh, it did have a little you're right, Yeah, okay,
14:41
but that's a long time to think like that is of our era where
14:45
these women were alive, and to know that that they were a part of
14:50
history. They it's it's interesting to think what they were thinking as they were
14:54
older, looking back at what they who they were, and what they've done
14:58
and what their mark on societ was. Yeah, double check my time stamps
15:03
starlings. But I'm pretty sure that's right. I I think you're off by
15:07
more than an If you're off at all, it's by a year or two.
15:09
You're right, I remember seeing that timestamp. But those are not all
15:13
of his ashes. Oh they weren't. Okay, let me guess Sutton has
15:18
some. She had them at the reunion. Yeah, because some of them
15:26
are buried with her in a Woodwood would wait, no, in Westwood Cemetery
15:35
are buried with Joanne. Yeah, they're in a wall. They're in a
15:37
mausolene. I wondered, Oh, by the way, the auction was twenty
15:41
sixteen, so you're right, it was probably twenty fifteen. I wondered why
15:48
she didn't why she had those ashes? So okay, well that explains it.
15:52
So I think I talked about this, but maybe I didn't. The
15:56
ashes were at her house and then some of them went to Jack and there's
16:03
a rock memorial to Jack and Capodi that is on the east coast. It's
16:11
like, I think it's along the water somewhere, and I think those the
16:15
ashes are there. Maybe, But then I think I did talk about this.
16:19
They got the ashes at Joanne's got stolen and then weirdly returned. Oh
16:26
my god. And there was speculation if she did this to create a stir
16:33
about the ashes. Apparently they were stolen at a party and then oddly just
16:37
completely returned. And then that's when she bought the crypt at Westwood Cemetery and
16:45
that's where she I mean, there's a crypt for him, and then she's
16:48
in that too. Wow. They are right around the corner from Marilyn Monroe.
16:56
Wow, that's a crazy one. That's a crazy story too. Do
17:00
you know about this? I'm sorry, this is such a left turn.
17:03
No what Okay? So Marilyn, I'm going to do this fast and you
17:06
can speed this up in rails and no one will understand that. It's great.
17:11
Marilyn Monroe is buried at Westwood. She's in a crypt above her is
17:15
a guy and his wife. I think she's there. I don't know where
17:21
she is. But anyway, he had himself buried upside down so he could
17:25
face Marilyn Monroe creep, and then like the Paul Barry or the funeral directors
17:30
flipped him over as his wishes were serving. We faced some random guy.
17:37
Yeah, And then his wife tried to sell her part her crypt for like
17:41
a million dollars like in the last fifteen years, and I don't know it
17:48
went through, and then it didn't go through, So I don't know the
17:49
story on that crypt yet. But then Hugh Hefner, who made a bajillion
17:53
dollars off the off Marylynd's image on the and she never was paid a dime
17:57
by Playboy, bought the crypt next to her. So she's surrounded by idiots.
18:03
Oh my gosh, free Maryland, yeah, wow or get yeah.
18:08
But those crips around her are insane expeally yes, gosh, And people have
18:15
bought them and then they resell them. It's a whole business, baby,
18:21
Sure it did. Somebody say cremation Ever that knows is Westwood Cemetery like a
18:30
public cemetery that you can go to and and watch, I will say,
18:36
and you if you are interested in cemeteries, it's really an interesting I mean
18:41
it's it's the size of about a larger Trader Joe's parking lot, not much
18:45
bigger, and it's just what a great relatable reference. So definitely not the
18:51
one that you probably shop at, which is the one in Silver Lake,
18:53
which is a freaking nights across the country Trader Joe's parking lots, or the
18:59
size of a peanut. And then you have to try to all work it.
19:03
I don't know why, but that is like they're all small and crazy.
19:08
Okay, so but that's my point. The cemetery is tiny. It's
19:12
not like, ah got it, okay, all right, that's fascinating.
19:18
No. I think that people listening, whoever's listening to this, I think
19:23
wood has an appreciation for for you know, obviously the nostalgia of Marilyn Monroe
19:29
and and all those things. I uh, I wanted to talk about Joanne
19:37
Woodward and how she is. I'm sorry, why do I I'm so sorry
19:44
I keep saying that, Please forgive me. There's got to be an actress
19:48
named Joanne Woodward there is, right, Yeah, I keep getting it,
19:52
all right, so Anne. Oh, it's even in my notes it says
19:56
Joanne Woodward's auction. So I loved the way and decorated with Peer one imports,
20:03
TI betan eclectic decor and that he called her out on that, and
20:07
he was like, yeah, Breton Crook and Babe was like, oh,
20:14
she means, well, oh, you're surrounded by this horrible what is this
20:18
putty? And it was so great to hear him say peer one because I
20:23
was the voice. I did the voiceovers for peer one for many, many,
20:26
many many years. Oh. I didn't even realize that that was one
20:30
of my bigger accounts that I had for so long. And then they uh
20:37
switched like creative directors and you know how that goes. And then so they
20:42
rebrand everything and they do a whole different campaign. And then I got let
20:48
off the the account, which was such a bummer, and then Peer one.
20:52
It was interesting because then they went with a different, whole, different
20:55
creative campaign and then peer one closed down. All right, he really rip
21:02
And I was so bound. It was such a great account. Oh my
21:04
god, I wonder if they had a fever dream and you came to them,
21:08
and you guys, you and Peer one were on the beach, dancing
21:11
together, beautiful pier one in porch beautiful Amy, Mama, beautiful Amy.
21:26
I'm so cold, Mama, is this California? Beautiful Amy? I need
21:30
a peer one in porch blanket. Yeah. Wow, that's howes go out.
21:41
That's how they always do. That's what they do. They have their
21:45
death rattle too, you know what I mean. Oh my gosh, it's
21:51
you know, at the very end of that auction and we see Kate there
21:55
and she looks no different than she did when she was young. I just
21:59
thought that was a little that was like the only real continuity issue I had,
22:03
right, yeah, they you're so right. They didn't age her up
22:07
at all. They just gave her a low, whispy block but like a
22:11
bun right yeah, and then like a different hour. Yeah that was weird.
22:18
She's old. I mean they were probably like, do we really need
22:22
to age her up? I mean this is for two seconds, right,
22:26
does she need to sit in hair and makeup for four days? It's all
22:29
right? Yeah, but yeah, you're it was like, she looks great.
22:34
Yeah, wow, those models don't age you know. I did like
22:41
the creative risks that they took with these fever dream rewritings of the you know,
22:51
writing of the actual finishing answered prayers, you know, and that his
22:55
choice to burn it, you know, set it on fire, was an
22:59
interesting choice because Demi Moore told him to. Yeah, you know, it
23:04
was funny because at first I was like, oh, this is a kind
23:07
of cool thing. But then they at first and through the whole way,
23:11
because they made it exactly how Truman would have thought he was apologizing where he
23:18
becomes the superhero in each of their like stories, you know, and I
23:25
thought like, of course, that's exactly how he would have done it.
23:29
Yeah, so smart, It is so smart, And it was really you
23:33
had to really go with it because they took a huge shift in like the
23:37
tempo of this narrative. It became really a lot more campy and goofy and
23:44
melodramatic, you know. Yeah, and that must have been a hard thing
23:49
to do. Well, these all are all amazing directors and actors, so
23:53
obviously probably wasn't that hard, but to keep their characters kind of grounded but
24:00
in that you know decade, and you know, then to actually kind of
24:03
tweak them a little bit, to be somewhat cartoony and have this weird Fever
24:08
Adventure. It was wild. Yeah. Yeah, and also like I realized
24:15
too, he was still throwing them under the bus because he was still like
24:18
digging at who they were. And then but she accepted the manuscript because you
24:26
know, she was so gracious, like what I know, I know it
24:32
was wild. Yeah. I wonder too if it like the slim scene where
24:37
she's just screaming and screaming, like, yeah, that was so well done.
24:41
She's just like yelling and then she on the street and into the dining
24:47
room. Yeah, both the whole way and then with the voiceover, and
24:52
then she she all of a sudden sees it. Truman was right, and
24:56
he's wonderful. Yeah, that was really good. You love that. And
25:00
that outfit of hers was sick. Yeah. Red. Now you have to
25:06
get a blouse like that in your collection because that was unbelievable. Yeah,
25:11
it was like that, and then kind of silky burgundy. Yes, it's
25:15
dark red. I loved it. It was so luscious. And then being
25:18
in her house and she got these dishes from Japan. All the details,
25:22
I mean, you could just go back through and just just pick apart all
25:26
the wonderful things that they did to paint this whole world. Yeah. They.
25:34
I also I don't know if it was like what was it? I
25:37
guess it was. We started to get some dishes named, which I appreciate.
25:45
Yes, I know what the Japanese one was, do you No?
25:51
I don't, And I really I'm sure it was like occupied Japan, like
25:55
something from around that time, like during the war, But I just don't
26:00
know what it would have been. And then I really Emily knows a lot
26:04
about dishes, in case you don't, I love a lot about China,
26:07
teacups, I love bone China and all that stuff, and I really wish
26:12
we could get some close ups on that. So my request to all directors,
26:17
if you're going to have gorgeous California, you're gonna gorgeous, uh,
26:22
your vintage dishes and antique and all that. Let's see it, see it,
26:29
Let's see the commn desire the set designers work. Yeah, see it.
26:33
I mean they did such a great job. My god, that painting
26:38
making its way to Mexico and they just have it. It's entire painting,
26:42
like you guys brought it down there, and I did love like it made
26:47
so much sense. The Phantom Forgiveness episode episode eight called Phantom Forgiveness once you
26:53
see what's going on it just like it's such a great title. Yeah.
27:00
One thing I didn't quite understand is in this at the auction at the end,
27:06
like why wasn't Truman there? Like they were all dead admiring his box
27:11
of ashes? So I'm like, well, where's he in hell or in
27:18
this world? Or where is he? Like that didn't make sense to me,
27:22
Like I would have liked to have seen a shot of reunited, Yeah,
27:27
because the way this was all set up was that, I mean,
27:33
the way the series was going, especially once the article came out, everybody
27:40
did come back to him except for Babes. So wouldn't it make sense in
27:42
the end if they're both dead that Truman wouldn't just be ashes because she stares
27:48
back at the box like, oh he's gone now he's dead. Well,
27:52
so are you so going to lunch nowhere? Well, I mean, if
28:02
we can think about it out loud as we as we talk. Perhaps that
28:07
was intentional in that he was always an outsider and he was never going to
28:11
be with them, you know, Yeah, and so it had to be
28:17
kept just them, like that is their click, that is there. They're
28:22
a society. They're in a different they're in a different world, and he's
28:26
never really did belong mm hmm. I get that. It's just, uh,
28:33
I wonder how they struggled with that. Yeah, I bet they did,
28:37
Yeah, because I'm struggling with it now, Like, yeah, I
28:41
kind of like that. They all went on their way. But guess what,
28:45
I didn't even think for a second, where's Truman? Why isn't he
28:48
in this scene? Yeah? And it's also like if you're if you're going
28:52
to go with the afterlife and all that, and Babe yearned to reunite with
28:57
him, wouldn't they you unite in the afterlife? Like wouldn't that he?
29:03
I mean, I guess if you're gonna do that scene, do that scene?
29:07
Yeah? Have him had the last live? Like why am I here?
29:14
Or something? You know, like do something like that? And here
29:18
always knew I would be, you know here, you know we even knows
29:23
you that kind of thing. Phantom is a deadly snake bite for my ashes.
29:33
Let's go to the club. I like the pull up clubs. I
29:40
know. I love that they said that. Yeah, that was awesome.
29:44
Yeah, they could have ended it with him being like he walks down the
29:48
auction path and then he gives one of his lines and they're like, oh,
29:52
we knew. Truman always has the right thing to say. It an
29:56
auction, you know, like or just him just guiding somebody's arm up to
30:03
bid more even out bit his own kid or his adopted daughter, just something
30:07
where he's like there in the mix. He doesn't need to be standing with
30:12
them. And even he and Babe in the afterlife could not connect but just
30:17
see each other. Yeah, and had that same moment. It was just
30:19
odd to me that she's reflecting on a box. But they're both dead,
30:26
so he would be there too, And of all things, he would have
30:30
never missed that auction. He would have been I mean as a ghost,
30:33
if we're going there, if we're gonna Yeah. When they were like starting
30:37
the bid at two thousand, I was like, oh, this is a
30:41
humilitating experience, Like, oh my god, I would not I mean,
30:47
thank god it ended at forty five. But she's and they obviously don't know
30:52
who. I mean, this must be a private person who got those ashes,
30:56
because wouldn't they say who it was? Somebody from New York. It
31:00
was a private I do remember reading about this kind of get into that stuff.
31:07
Do you know Robin Quivers has Vincent Price's ashes? What? Yeah,
31:12
I think Joan Rivers gave them to her. I don't know what that why
31:15
they came in my head, but I'm pretty sure that's right, of course
31:21
I do. Wow, that's nuts. Yeah. I just feel like,
31:30
now, with all these ashes floating around everywhere ending up on housewives' backs,
31:34
just bury me already, you know what I mean, Like, yeah,
31:38
stick me in the ground. I don't want to be floating around ending up
31:41
at some like Estate Siale in North Dakota. Yeah, but I also don't
31:47
want to get blown back on like Erica Jane either, So actually that would
31:51
be pretty iconic. That's what I'm saying. Bury me, bury berry,
31:56
not put in the ocean. Don't you don't want to be creep made it.
32:00
I'm just saying, yeah, yeah, I mean I've thought about it
32:01
before, but I would think that that's the way to go. But now
32:05
I just I don't want to end up any some jar somewhere and forgotten about.
32:09
I'm gonna use this as your will and I'll play this episode back bright.
32:15
No, listen, you know that new will you're looking for, Well,
32:21
listen to that. She's my wheeling case. You mean, what if
32:30
this really has to be terrifying? Oh your honor. When miss Phillips begins
32:38
her Truman impression, we hardly think she was serious. That's my wife.
32:50
That the backstory, the flashback of the mother. Oh my god. Well,
32:55
thank god we got Jessica Lang. We got like three monologues because they
33:00
made up for lost time. I was like, She was like, why
33:04
don't you tail mass story. I was like, yes, finally, somebody
33:07
tell her fucking story. I've been waiting for it this whole time. It
33:15
was good. Yes, she uh, we'll see she came. Oh yeah,
33:21
she just came in and kept giving him notes too, about the book,
33:24
about the book. Yeah, and then then she said, oh yeah.
33:32
She started talking about how he's not in touch with with his hatred and
33:39
all these stories about the Swans. She was like, it's all about you
33:45
know, them letting you back into their hearts. You're you bringing a gift
33:51
to make up for it. So write about my suicide. Why is it
33:53
so hard? You were in your twenties when I did it. You are
33:59
a baby. It was just as hard. Oh true? Did you even
34:07
read the police report? Accident in my ass, yeah's accident or overdose?
34:19
How do they know no one was there? And then it was like,
34:27
well, I guess I'm a little confused. Oh accidentally, right, right.
34:30
Of course she did it on purpose, so they're just trying to cover.
34:36
Yeah, but then that was a wild way to bring in Anne Woodward.
34:45
No, no, who was not again? Yeah, yeah, Demi
34:47
Moore because she was the most like her. Yeah, she was the most
34:52
Like Truman said that Anne was the most like his mother and she and he
34:59
obviously, like in a lot of ways, killed Anne, and you know,
35:06
he was just the sad like he couldn't help, but like self sabotage,
35:09
I think. But because then like he killed all those relationships, he
35:15
did not kill his mother. His mother was awful. But yeah, I
35:21
think I think you recreate in those in that unrealized trauma. You create situations
35:28
over and over so you can try to fix them and like, oh,
35:32
wow, didn't save anybody, that is the truth. Yeah. Well,
35:37
I really felt there was a lot of heart in this. And of course
35:43
with Jessica Lang's acting, you know, she's just basically laughing in his face
35:46
about being a circus act, you know, and and all this stuff and
35:51
then saying that she has to you know, she doesn't have money, so
35:54
she has to marry really well, and it just goes to show how desperate
35:59
the time were for women that had to depend on men if they didn't have
36:06
homosexuals because she was so hard on him and whatever version of conversion therapy there
36:14
was then like he had to go to it and he was molested several times,
36:20
Like he just had a horrible childhood. Yeah, and also like that
36:24
scene like I don't I mean, I'm gonna believe him, but he would
36:29
often tell that story of his mother locking him in rooms while she would like
36:35
entertain these men to try to get a husband. To your point, So,
36:38
yeah, that sucked awful just seeing that little boy portraying him and just
36:45
sitting there in that room waiting and waiting and waiting. It. Boy,
36:49
did that hurt that just killed killed killed guiled? Oh my god. And
36:54
it just makes so much sense. I mean, when you see him on
36:57
these interviews, and if you haven't seen the real interview of him on that
37:00
Stanley Siegel show, yes, I mean, he's just not an exaggeration at
37:05
all. No, I haven't watched it in a while, but I mean,
37:09
if it was word for word, I wouldn't have been surprised. It
37:13
was pretty much yeah, yeah, yeah, they condensed it, but it
37:17
was pretty much exactly that. And do you know what else was word for
37:22
word? When Slim was crying and screaming in the dining room, it was
37:29
almost exactly Sheena crying and screaming at Lala. Why can't it be about me?
37:36
It's gotta be. It's never about me, Laala. I should have
37:39
been like, I'm throwing you a black and white ball, a masquerade.
37:49
I loved that it was thea's under the table Peter bou slim Man. You
38:02
know why I keep saying Joanne Woodward because the other woman's name is Joanne,
38:07
and then I'm putting them together and then I just Joanne Woodward is an actress,
38:12
right, So I mean everybody wins, everybody wins. Well, uh,
38:20
so we got to see Babe die, and that's really the episode that
38:24
we were talking about. That was so sad when she heard over like picked
38:30
up the phone when she came home and overheard Bill talking to their daughter,
38:34
and she was like, that was rough. That was rough. Yeah,
38:40
And I kind of read there's a vanity fair article written by Chris Murphy after
38:47
you know how they released like what was real What wasn't? And I guess
38:52
Kate really did show like that was kind of accurate in terms of maybe not
39:00
so much the phone call, but the feelings and she did come at the
39:07
last second. Okay, so yeah not great, Yeah, no, not
39:17
too great. But I have I also heard that Babe's family, like her
39:22
granddaughter, I mean, her kids are all still alive. I think her
39:29
granddaughter though, is really pissed because once again somebody else is telling Babes story
39:34
and it really is in babe story with the series, with the feud series,
39:38
So I do I feel for them on that if they But you know,
39:45
Babe did write a memoir I don't know who's ever published. I thought
39:49
it was just a list of things that she did profec Yeah, she needed
39:54
to get right. Uh. It was interesting when she and bi Bill we're
40:00
having that discussion when the doctor told her she only had six months to live
40:06
and she's essentially telling him that and he's yelling at her to stop smoking,
40:09
and he's like, was it that bad with me that you wanted to kill
40:14
yourself? And she's like, yes, actually it was, and that it
40:16
could have been worse, but it could have been librium, but no,
40:21
it was Siggy's and high end booze. That's how I medicated myself from you.
40:27
Yeah, and Bill said that you're a cold person and that's why,
40:31
you know, and that her daughters, her kids, were not a priority
40:36
in her life, and Babe says, she won't speak to me because I
40:39
chose you instead. Yeah, that was something that like that was in That
40:47
was something that I guess is pretty legend, is that Babe and Bill were
40:53
just to each other and like I stout the kids hmmm, and they both
40:59
had kids from previous marriages, right right. But I think, like I've
41:05
heard that in a couple different places that that was that was kind of what
41:08
they did. That's interesting. I thought that was a really good, almost
41:14
a relatable situation because they could have gotten divorced and she could have been not
41:21
tortured anymore by him and what he was doing, and then could have pulled
41:25
herself together and been a good mother, you know what I mean. But
41:29
instead she really chose that lifestyle and and really Capoti was like, don't leave,
41:36
you know what I mean. So, yeah, I thought that was
41:37
an interesting point to have made at that gencture. I didn't like her top
41:45
three theory. She's like, you're in my top three. That was really
41:51
interesting, not a not a positive thing, you know what I mean,
41:57
Like not it almost justifies us being the worst of who we are, you
42:01
know, or staying in horror, keeping horrible people around because they made such
42:07
a difference in our life. Yeah, even if it switched to bad,
42:12
Like that's what I kept thinking, honestly, because I had just listened to
42:15
Rachel's podcast right before I watched that episode. I was like, well,
42:20
I'm sure Sandoval is in Rachel's top three, but that doesn't mean like you
42:25
have to long for their presence or you know, or Ariana's top three.
42:30
Yeah, that person really got in there, and you're always connected, but
42:34
that doesn't mean that you have to have to be I guess it's absolutely and
42:38
really in the end, she I mean, she didn't she chose the second
42:42
part of her life to cut him out so essentially, and yeah, that
42:47
maybe that was true the law of justifying it in his like fantasy ending right
42:54
right right, But that but I just I agree with you because like it's
42:59
like, well, I'm not going to hold the people in my life closer
43:01
to me in my heart because they treated me so horribly. Then that's that's
43:07
what we're not going to do. What we're not going to do is put
43:09
the people who are abusive on pedestals and call them my top three. That's
43:15
what we're not going to do. I mean, the scene was beautiful and
43:19
I was like, oh, yeah, babe, but then I was like,
43:24
wait a second, no, I know the exact same reaction where I
43:30
was like, that is so into what No. I mean, it's definitely
43:38
a way for really broken people who haven't pulled themselves together to look back on
43:44
their life and try to make something of it and make, you know,
43:50
figure out and understand why it went that way. You know, well,
43:55
yes, and I think like, as long as you can acknowledge it.
44:01
But I just think the longing for it to reconnect and to feed it.
44:07
That's when I was like, no, no, no, no, And
44:10
perhaps the reason why he was not in that final scene with them, you
44:15
know. Yeah. I did, however, enjoy the moth metaphor about the
44:21
moth stuck in the light, and it's just all it's doing is keeps bashing
44:24
itself into the light and the light, and it doesn't even realize. If
44:28
it just looks down, it can leave and it can escape, and it's
44:31
right there in front of you all the time. That was very interesting.
44:36
That was and I kept going then I when I was I did like it,
44:40
and I kept being like, well, what if it wants don't we
44:45
all want to be in the light, And so is it good to be
44:49
stuck in the light And just like stop at Emily because you're going yeah,
44:53
because if you leave the light, you're in the darkness. Yeah, Bab's
44:58
man, allergies really sucked. Really, it's good. It was really good.
45:01
It's just like if I lean into hard, it's like, it's not
45:05
helpful. Truman's mother. It was a live metaphor I'll see you under that
45:15
lamp. That moth is stuck. I turned it into mister ed. Yeah,
45:30
really fruity true. H wow, I'll tell you what. Though,
45:39
once Jack and Truman moved on from each other, they dated the hottest guy,
45:49
the A C. Guy was so funny. He's I looked him up
45:53
and he's like our dealer, and then he's somebody's kid. Then I was
45:59
like, oh, okay, he's an artist kid. Like if you googled
46:02
him. You'll see what I'm saying. I can't even think of his name
46:06
or what I googled, but I was like, Okay, to me,
46:09
it read like, oh, the director saw him somewhere. It was like,
46:14
he's really hot. Yeah, I'm gonna introduce him to the world.
46:17
I mean, he's kind of out there. And by director I mean Gus
46:20
van zandt Yes or or I didn't know if it was like Ryan Murphy,
46:24
right, it could be any of them. Yeah, anyhow, this guy
46:28
in some circles like he. I do think he is part of the New
46:32
York art world in some ways. So I was like, oh, it
46:35
kind of fits too. I always love what seeing like who they're gonna cast
46:39
because Ryan Murphy is very like he has his crew of people he always uses.
46:45
It's that's what I love about it. It's like a theater company.
46:49
He uses a lot of the same people all the time. Yes, And
46:52
it's what can you imagine being in that circle of like you're in with Ryan
46:58
Murphy and he loves you and he's just like, yeah, we're gonna we're
47:01
gonna go ahead and throw you on the next one for you know, the
47:06
whatever he's doing next, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yep,
47:08
you don't mind doing a forty five minute monologue? Yeah, surets because I
47:14
need you. Like he just like he recycles his actors and I love that.
47:20
I mean, what an incredible opportunity. And then he'll throw in these
47:23
wild cards where you're like, where did you find that person? Like my
47:28
story there, it's really yes, interesting, I love it it is.
47:32
And also like it seems like Ryan Murphy, whatever this FX deal is,
47:37
he can either do a thirty episode series or eight it's like whatever he feels,
47:43
whatever he's in the mood, shorter ones. Yeah, but sometimes those
47:47
American horror stories. By episode ninety three of that season, I'm like,
47:53
okay, the house is still haunted, just feeling is still maybe in this
47:58
world or not. Wait I'm Stullie, but I always start like guns blazing,
48:06
like me think, yeah, yeah, and this he's great. This
48:13
was eight this was eight episodes. Yeah, it was perfect. And let
48:16
me also say I will watch anything he does to the end because I'm just
48:21
like, and if I were Ryan Murphy and FX, it's like, yeah,
48:23
but we want to pay you to do four hundred episodes about this house,
48:27
I'd be like, Okay, cool, I'm gonna do that. But
48:34
yeah, I loved when well Joanne actually pulled Truman out of the pool,
48:38
you know that day where he just jumped in almost drowned, and she's like,
48:43
oh, thank god, I've been doing all those Richard Simmons classes.
48:46
I've got the upper body strength. Who pulled you out? Oh, I'm
48:51
gonna go get you a diet, righte Cola. I was just like this
48:53
gal is a piece of work. I love her. I loved how they
48:58
wrote her. Yes, he didn't die at her house. And what it's
49:04
interesting is how that maybe it was a suicide. Maybe it redos very similar
49:08
to his mother. Yeah, well his death was not okay. His death
49:20
was ruled like, h I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It was kind of
49:23
like a stroke from what I understand, but he had liver damage. Yeah,
49:30
like that wasn't like I don't know if it was just like continuing all
49:38
the things that you shouldn't continue into the last week of your life or eventually
49:45
you're going to die somehow. And and maybe they didn't want maybe Joanne didn't
49:50
want to say suicide. I don't know. Well, yeah, maybe you're
49:55
right. Maybe she was just more protecting him liver disease complicated by flabbitis,
50:02
flebbitis and multitis multiple drug intoxication. Okay, well I guess then again,
50:07
it wasn't exactly a stroke. Well, I mean it could have been some
50:15
I mean, who knows. It probably was not an autopsy, right,
50:21
I mean they were like, we don't need everybody saw that interview on Seagulls
50:27
Stanley Seagals show. I think we can take a big guess m hm.
50:32
But also it was interesting and did you read anything in the book about like
50:37
his work, because an interview that I watched of Joanne, she said he
50:42
wrote a lot at her house, like he was working on Answered Prayers.
50:45
Obviously didn't finish it, but he wrote a lot of short stories, and
50:47
he wrote a lot of stuff while he was at her house. Well that's
50:51
what was published after he died. Oh so okay, And then the actual
50:59
manuscript for that book in its fullness has never been found. But a lot
51:07
maybe that never existed, you know. So she and there's some debate too
51:13
if she finished a lot of the essays up or like kind of took some
51:19
liberties there to finish it. I'm not sure. There's some question about like
51:24
you know what she did or didn't do. You know. I also feel
51:28
like Jack and her at the end after Truman died were not on good terms.
51:35
I think she felt that she had maybe not honored his memory properly,
51:42
or there was some weirdness there might have been about the ashes. I'm not
51:46
totally sure I could see that, but I mean, yeah on the show
51:51
when he was like, you take care of the memorial, you know,
51:55
yeah, I think it was more about like the state and that's sort of
52:00
thing. Yeah, but it's been a minute since I've read that, but
52:06
I do remember, like, I don't think that they were friends after like
52:09
maybe two years after Truman died. I think I got contentious. I mean,
52:14
Jack didn't live that much longer. Maybe he did, but not like
52:19
the Swans. He wasn't living Swan time, like into the twenty nineteen like
52:25
he died. Yeah, oh, speaking of that, I did really enjoy
52:31
how his mother Nina really consider herself the Black Swan, because when you talk,
52:37
when you're talking about all the Swans, you're thinking of white Swans.
52:40
And I mean, I know the graphics for the show in the beginning is
52:44
like a lot of the Black Swans but the black Swan is his mother,
52:49
you know. Yeah, and I remember that's how she dressed at the ball
52:52
too, and that human Yeah that was just a really I mean it's perfect.
52:59
That was what. Yeah. Yeah, it's so funny to talk to
53:04
you with this alf and why I haven't worn a costume. Is finally able
53:10
to be myself. It's also like kind of your old haircut but not you
53:15
know what I mean. Like, so it's what I'm like, Oh,
53:16
she cut her hair again, you know what I mean, because your hair
53:19
is so much longer now. Yeah, but I also love blondes with darker
53:24
eyebrows. I always love that look. I always think it looks so cool.
53:29
Yeah. Do I look like sand of All in a wig. Let's
53:32
not drag him into it. I don't want to insult. Now. You
53:36
look way better than that. Yeah, well I'm trying. That was the
53:44
look I was going for, so thanks a lot of me. Oh god,
53:47
I'm so sorry. Sorry. Finally I've achieved it. I look as
53:51
beautiful as sand of All on a wig. There were so many moments of
53:55
you know, Truman just being at his trumany self, like going laying at
54:00
the gravestone of Babe and being like carnations, who would do I brought you
54:06
your Freeford carnivores, which I've never heard of that flower in my life.
54:09
Yeah, but amazing the detail. Yeah, and uh and just him kind
54:15
of floating around in all these different, you know scenes. I did think
54:22
it was It was a great ending to the show, and it took a
54:27
lot of turns. What was Were there any other parts of like the last
54:31
three episodes that really stood out to you that you want to touch on.
54:37
I think I liked that we got back to the property that we opened the
54:43
series with, and that it was then him burning the answered prayers. Now
54:49
that's Babe's property. Like what where would that? I think ants or something?
54:52
Where would that be? Gosh, I mean it's in New York.
54:58
I just don't know where. I was just somewhere state. Yeah, I
55:01
would assume it's Yeah, I don't know if it would be the Hampton's but
55:06
anyway, I don't know, but I had thought it was Cez's property.
55:09
But then that's I think where Babe ends up in the end. Yeah,
55:13
because she was out there looking at the swans and the Yeah, okay,
55:16
yeah, yeah, I just thought I like the the Carol Grace Mathowl nod
55:28
for breakfast at Tiffany's. We got another book called Reference. I can you
55:31
can you speak to that about the Carol Mathow how he it's loosely based on
55:37
her? Do you know more about that? I don't know too much about
55:40
it. I mean she uh, but I don't know. It's always when
55:45
I first heard about that, I was like, oh, did he not
55:50
like her? It was confusing to me. I don't think he did like
55:53
her. I think at the time it was like controversial that, like he
55:59
was kind of saying, like she sleeps around she's but then it kind of
56:02
it kind of became this thing that everybody really loved. So then she was
56:07
more at more like embracing of this idea. But it was never fully confirmed.
56:14
Okay, it also seems like it could be loosely based on his mother
56:17
in many ways, certainly a lighter version of that. Yeah, yeah,
56:22
yeah, you know, like I'm sure and yeah yeah yeah, but yeah,
56:29
I mean she she was married to Walter Matthout for like ever, like
56:31
decades and decades, But yeah, I don't know. There's just there's always
56:37
these fun little nuggets every ten minutes you get. Yes, I know,
56:44
the detail, the detail, the detail, the detail. You know,
56:49
I couldn't figure out. Oh, let me ask you this. Here's where
56:52
I couldn't figure it out. So did this scene really happen or not happen?
56:59
The one where Jack obviously finds him, he references finding him in his
57:06
own vomit and brings him to the rehab facility to dry out, and they
57:12
have that scene where Jack says, you know, I found someone to be
57:16
with and I love him and I'm saying goodbye, and then he and then
57:23
then he's like, please don't leave, I'm cold, and then he puts
57:29
the blanket over him and then he goes. You know, did that scene
57:32
ever happen? Because the next thing we know is that he was at Joanne's
57:37
in the pool, and then we find out that he died there. So
57:40
what was that like part of his fantasy or a dream? Yeah? I
57:45
was a little confused about the intention for that, but I just assumed at
57:52
that point I was like, Okay, probably everything since Babe died is a
57:57
fantasy land. Okay, because yeah, I mean it was it all,
58:04
it all made sense, but to be in fantasy or him writing, but
58:14
we know that writing was kind of a fantasy for him because he wasn't doing
58:19
it. So yeah, that's kind of what I thought. All right,
58:27
Well, uh, anything else we want to talk about before we wrap up
58:35
this one hell of a masterpiece and set it on fire. I think I
58:44
think that I feel like we covered it, But we darlings, What did
58:49
we miss? What did me miss? Mm hmm okay, didn't he have
58:57
a booge prayer? But your preyer room h yeah, Joshed look of terror.
59:12
You perfected your voice over the last three weeks. Well, I'm gonna
59:16
leave him in the crypt with Joanne Carson. This is it, This is
59:21
it, This is it. Sorry again for my Joanne Woodward and Joanne Carson
59:27
missteps the entire series. I hope you can You didn't do it the entire
59:34
series. Yeah, pretty much, I corrected you. Yeah you did,
59:37
you did. I would never ever Gosh, Emily can't thank you enough for
59:45
showing up. But you really showed up and in full costume, and I
59:50
appreciate that. Thanks for taking this journey with us. You guys, if
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you're listening to this on the public feed, please know that we do fun
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stuff like this over on the Patreon Patreon dot com slash Drama Darling. You
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can get all kinds of recaps over there, and you guys just have a
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fabulous weekend and happy Saint Patrick's Day if you celebrate. By Emily, Bye
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good Bury for Naty Drama, Darling Drama, Darling Drama, Darling