Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / From Italy to Omaha: Chef Benjamin Maides on Craft, Farming & Tasting Menus Ep. 180

Transcript

From Italy to Omaha: Chef Benjamin Maides on Craft, Farming & Tasting Menus Ep. 180 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs, This is Chefs PSA and I'm your host Andre Natera.
0:03
Today I'm joined by Chef Benjamin Maids of Okaront
0:05
Restaurant in Omaha, a James Beard nominated chef known for
0:09
his seasonal ingredient driven cooking and consistently
0:12
evolving tasting menus. We talked about his time cooking
0:14
in Northern Italy, the cultural and culinary lessons, balancing
0:18
restaurant life, running a farm, being a corporate chef and his
0:21
plans for a new tasty menu concept.
0:23
Let's get into it. Stay tuned.
0:37
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checkout. Back in my younger days, I was
1:19
working in northern Italy in the Dolomite Mountains.
1:22
One of my old chefs, Phillip Myzel, is a meat cook at the
1:25
French Laundry. He was.
1:26
He was the meat cook at the French.
1:28
Laundry. Yep, Yep.
1:29
And I kind of, we ended up random will you becoming friends
1:33
and random roommates at this place called Pink Palace where
1:36
all the line cooks would just run through all the time as like
1:38
a revolving door. And we're, we're going to use
1:41
this by the way. This is so this in Alto Autage.
1:43
It's kind of, I call it the Aspen of Italy.
1:48
Respect. Yeah, that is where spec comes
1:50
from. There's spec everywhere there.
1:52
And so Long story short, I was like, I want to come work in
1:55
Europe. He's like, I got a job for you.
1:57
And I was like, OK, so I go to Italy and I'm spending quite a
2:00
few seasons there. How old were you at this time?
2:02
I'm probably 2526. 27 just. A young, just a young buck.
2:08
Yeah. And he kind of takes me under
2:10
his wing. I go to my grandma's house in
2:12
Switzerland, he picks me up, we go to Italy and we just spend a
2:16
lot of time there cooking in the mountains, Wellness, H5 stars,
2:20
daily changing menu, just kind of super fun culinary journey
2:27
type stuff and just had a blast. So New Year's Eve, we would
2:32
always have to stay late and cook like Kodaquino and lentils.
2:36
So we cook the sausage late night meal, we do the whole
2:39
menu, and then we do this Kodaquino, lentils, Chilaolio
2:43
pasta. And, you know, Speaking of
2:46
spell. Sounds delicious, by the way.
2:47
It was. It's so good.
2:49
I still think about it all the time.
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And so our me, our spec purveyor, would bring us these
2:54
big red tubs. And that's what all our me came
2:57
in. And so New Year's Eve, he hooks
3:01
us up and there's German beer. He was from Germany, lives in
3:04
Germany. And beers, Champagne, Prosecco,
3:08
just like party treasure chest. Happy.
3:11
Yeah. Happy New Years.
3:14
So we kind of finished service. We all start drinking, we all
3:17
start hanging out. We're just having a blast.
3:19
You know, he's always like, you know, Ben, just love having you
3:21
appreciate you, you know, all that cool.
3:23
Like chef. Well, I cook stuff when you're
3:25
all drinking together and we're just getting after it and it's
3:30
probably one in the morning. Everyone's yeah, everyone's
3:33
chiffase. They're like, have a dance
3:34
party. I'm sure some of us ended up on
3:36
the dance floor for the hotel with the hotel guests.
3:39
It's wild. And then we're like, all right,
3:42
we're going. All of a sudden we had staff
3:44
housing. And then all of a sudden
3:47
somebody goes to leave and our phones start blowing up and
3:50
they're like, they have a checkpoint.
3:52
They have a checkpoint. And in Italy, if you get a DY,
3:56
you're toast. What?
3:57
Why? Why you?
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Just lose your license. It is like the ultimate like you
4:02
do not get a DUI in Europe. They will pull your license to
4:05
pull your car like it's terrible.
4:08
So Mizell, my chef, he calls us and is like, you need to walk.
4:14
So we start walking. He somehow.
4:17
Listen, Jersey, so it's cold outside.
4:18
It's cold outside, he get every single car gets pulled over, he
4:21
passes the breathalyzer and I think my little brother was
4:25
there at the time. He worked a season there as
4:26
well. We just, the crew of us, we
4:29
huffed it back and we walked and have never been so happy to just
4:32
walk probably a mile home because it was wild.
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I was like, they did not mess around over there.
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Well, I was working in Italy because you had come from, you
4:41
know, some great restaurants in the United States, right.
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And then going, going to Italy to basically continue your, your
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culinary training. What was the culture shock of
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going from the United States to Italy?
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Like how how different are the kitchen systems in the culture
4:57
and what were some of the more difficult things that you needed
4:59
to learn? Obviously you know how to cook
5:01
with a knife and pots and pans, but then you walk into kitchen.
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I'm assuming the culture is different.
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Yes, 100% So we were so far up north there was 3 languages
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German, Italian and Ladine ish which is like this Italian
5:12
mountain language. So the culture up there it's
5:14
almost German. So yeah, Italy, you know, super
5:19
different culture just from, you know, the people, the language.
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Did you speak any Italian? I did not.
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Not even Duolingo level. No, but I spoke Swiss and
5:29
German, so I'm still fluent in Swiss.
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I'm still pretty good at German. So obviously growing up
5:35
Switzerland, I have a good base of Swiss German.
5:40
We kind of spoke that always growing up.
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You know, I was able to hold on to that while I moved here.
5:45
So we predominantly spoke German.
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You know, the kitchen was awesome because my chef, he kind
5:52
of came from Napa as well. So it was always green tape, you
5:56
know, as always, cut your tape as a lot of the kitchen culture
6:00
was there. But I really fell in love with
6:02
just the food and the culture. You know, the the hotelier's
6:06
brother right up the road had a farm.
6:09
We got like a ward wing cheese and yogurt delivered from them.
6:12
You know, the spec came from down the road and it just that
6:15
smell of slicing that spec, that smoke amazing.
6:18
I still still love it, you know, just making pasta.
6:22
That's where I really fell in love with like making pasta and
6:24
risotto. And it's just like, hey, if
6:26
you're risotto granule stuck, you started over.
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When when people think of like that part of Italy, what what
6:31
are some of the national or, or, or the local dishes that that
6:35
people would recognize right away when people think of, you
6:38
know. OK, you're going to laugh, but
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schlutzkopfen? That sounds super diet.
6:45
It's so it's kind of, it's really cool.
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It's this rye pasta dough stuffed with a cotta and spinach
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Parmigiano Reggiano tomato conco, say, and finished with
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brown butter. And that was like schlutz
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Kropfen speck canet early all this kind of like dumpling.
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I, I loved it because you get the Italian pasta culture, but
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you also really get this hearty German Austrian, you know, it
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was an hour to Austria, so 45 minutes.
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So you're right there 100% and you know everybody, the people
7:19
that work there, they kind of come from all over.
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So you find this cool melting pot of cuisine culture, and it
7:27
was. It was awesome.
7:28
Yeah. Did you end up speaking Italian
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when you came? Back I did, I did.
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My Italian got really good and I still joke around in Italian.
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It's not as good as it used to be.
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But you know, I mean, we take the trash out and we'd be
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staring at the most beautiful mountains.
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You know, it was, it was amazing.
7:42
Yeah, I used to be much more fluent.
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I mean, I mean, I'm not what I say I'm fluent.
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It's like if you're not good at Italian, I'm pretty good.
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But if you're good, it's like when I when I speak to when I
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speak to people that speak fluent Italian, I understand.
7:55
But they speak so fast. Sometimes I was like, if they
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slow down, I could, I got you and I could communicate if
8:00
they're slow. But when they start blah, blah,
8:03
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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And then, you know, depend on where they're from, if they're
8:06
from Naples or they're from somewhere like you lost me.
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It's hard and I, you know, my kitchen Spanish was pretty good
8:11
and they sound so similar. So I would get there and I think
8:15
I'd be speaking Italian. I'd be speaking Spanish.
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The guy go like we have this guy Claudio and most amazing,
8:20
quintessential classic Italian guy.
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And he would just shake his head and look and be like he's not
8:25
the speaking Italiano. It says Spanish and I'm like oh
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sorry. That's hilarious.
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My books, by the way, for people that are listening to my books.
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So I've written several books. They're translated in Spanish
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and Italian. Yeah, I, I used the Italian for
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me, OK, Yeah. So I could, so I could listen to
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them and read them in Italian. So it was like practice for me.
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So that's why I wanted to translate them in Italian.
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That's awesome. That's so cool it.
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Was it was for people that speak Italian, but it was also for me
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to continue my Italian because it's like I know what I wrote
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and now I know what it means in Italian.
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That's awesome. I you know, I think learning
8:59
another language is everybody should, you know, kind of a
9:04
multilingual for. Sure.
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I'm not, I'm not as good as I as I used to be, especially since
9:08
the podcast I don't, I don't do it as much.
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But yeah, my Spanish is also getting rusty.
9:13
It's terrible now, but it's get it's gotten better, so.
9:15
So what's really interesting about you for people that don't
9:17
know is you have almost like 2 careers at once.
9:20
Yes. Can you explain what your two
9:23
different roles are in the restaurant industry?
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Because you have two very distinct roles that are very
9:30
important but also very different.
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Yeah. So, you know, I guess to make a
9:36
Long story short, coming back from Italy, you know, I ended up
9:40
kind of come back to Omaha, kind of started running kitchens,
9:44
wanted to start cooking my own food.
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That's when I opened Okra Restaurant in Omaha.
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That's going on nine years here next week.
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Great restaurant been nominated. James Beard nominated restaurant
9:54
as well. Right, 2020 right before COVID
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and you know, we everyone knows, you know, you open your dream
10:02
restaurant and you think at some point it's going to make money.
10:04
Well, you know, it's been successful, but we started
10:08
having kids. We need to benefits.
10:11
So Long story short, I started looking at the corporate world
10:13
just to help supplement. So I, I opened up a restaurant
10:18
for beef company in Lincoln, NE ended up going to work for my
10:22
corporate job. Now for the restaurant group.
10:25
They kind of reached out and they were like, Hey, we need a
10:27
culinary director. And so at that point, I was
10:31
able, after 3 1/2 years of running the kitchen every day, I
10:35
would spend, you know, days at the restaurant and then I would
10:39
eventually go to my corporate job Monday through Friday, 8:00
10:42
to 4:00 as a culinary director. You know, we have a test
10:45
kitchen. I do all of the research and
10:47
development for the new concepts.
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I mean, there's 50 restaurants in 13 states.
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It's a. It's not a small group for sure,
10:55
but. A few restaurants is low.
10:58
So. So in one role in case people
11:01
didn't really catch what you just said.
11:02
Because This is why it blows my mind every time I talk to you
11:04
like, I don't know how you do it.
11:06
What when 1 Wolf, you're the restaurant owner chef, you're
11:10
working service, you're calling the pass.
11:14
Yeah, absolutely. Nightly.
11:15
Sometimes, right? Absolutely.
11:17
And during the day, you're also a corporate chef for a different
11:21
group. Yep, that has nothing to do with
11:22
your. Restaurant.
11:23
Absolutely, yeah. And maybe even more restaurants
11:25
on the way. Yep, exactly.
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So that's fucking crazy. It's wild.
11:31
You know every Thursday and no matter what, we change the menu
11:34
every week at Oak Rock. So every Thursday I finish my
11:37
job, I get in my car, drive down Maple Street because the office
11:40
is at 144th and Maple and I drive on to 63rd and Maple, 60th
11:45
and Maple. So every Thursday I drive down
11:47
Maple Street, I get to the office, 738 o'clock, drive down
11:52
Maple Street, close down with the guys. 11/30/12 midnight.
11:56
We do a managers meeting Thursday nights and then I try
11:59
to sleep for a few hours at the gym in the morning and do it
12:01
all. Hurricane.
12:02
It's wild. How do you do it?
12:03
Like how do you how do you how do you manage your time?
12:05
What are some tools that that keep you efficient and on task?
12:10
You know, that's a great question.
12:12
I've always struggled. I've really pushed myself to be
12:15
more organized. I probably start CrossFit about
12:18
six months ago, three days a week.
12:21
Just I've never worked out. I've never really been a gym
12:23
guy, but I needed something to just get me up, get me moving,
12:28
get me focus. And I can honestly say I'm
12:30
feeling much better and much more mentally clear.
12:34
So that allows me to focus and, you know, and I just, I'd
12:37
separate things out, you know, when I'm at flagship, I'm doing
12:39
flagship things and when I'm at Okron, I'm doing Okron things.
12:43
And I think that kind of helps me separate those two.
12:47
And it's, it's, you know, it's a different style, it's a
12:50
different level of cuisine, it's different concepts, it's
12:54
different stuff. And so you know, what we do at
12:57
Okra, where what I do in my day job is two different things.
13:00
You know, sometimes I'm gone for three weeks to a month opening a
13:03
restaurant and doing a big opening in Scottsdale or Dallas
13:07
or whatnot. But, you know, somehow I've just
13:10
been, you know, my wife's been very supportive and very
13:13
helpful. And your wife's the pastry chef.
13:14
There, Yep, she's the pastry chef.
13:15
She's doing an amazing job. I'm blown away.
13:18
She comes up with the coolest desserts every week.
13:20
And you know, we have a 20 acre hobby farm.
13:23
Yeah, you forgot to. Mention you also you also you
13:25
also have a farm. So that takes some time as well.
13:28
But you know, honestly, I just manage it by just trying to get
13:33
up every day. And you know, my motto is GBD
13:36
get better daily and push and crush, you know, and I, I just
13:39
get up and I, I feel very grateful to be doing what I'm
13:44
able to do. You know, some people are like,
13:45
I have to work. I'm like, I don't have to work.
13:47
I get to work, you know, I get to get up, I get to do what I
13:50
love and create food, and that's awesome.
13:54
Do you ever what do you ever experience burnout not because
14:01
you're always going like or is this like fully what you love to
14:04
do? You know, I, I love that and I'm
14:07
going to kick this one back to you because I love your theory
14:10
on burnout. You know, and I've heard you
14:11
talk about a lot on this podcast and I can agree with you more.
14:14
You know, I, I, I think it is a state of mind.
14:16
And if you love what you're doing, it's true.
14:20
Like you will find the energy, you will find the motivation.
14:23
I mean, I get tired absolutely, But you know, I just keep going
14:28
and I keep pushing and I keep my eye on the prize.
14:31
And you know, what's the next menu we're going to write?
14:33
What's the next thing we're going to do?
14:34
What's the next cool, really great dish we're going to
14:36
create, you know, and that keeps me motivated and that keeps me
14:40
excited. And, you know, I love your
14:42
philosophy. Like burnouts different for
14:44
everybody. You know, I get it.
14:45
It's hard, but I've just been able to kind of, I guess, have
14:50
the passion, maybe overcome that, I don't know.
14:51
Yeah, yeah. When when you really love what
14:53
you do. And I, for people that haven't
14:56
heard my opinion on burnout, this is this is my opinion.
14:58
I'll share it again, is that when you truly love something,
15:03
it's hard to kick you out of the kitchen.
15:05
And I'm just going to use the kitchen as an example.
15:07
Like you could work 20 hours and it feels like you can't wait to
15:11
get back and and start creating again because you're around
15:13
people that you enjoy being around.
15:15
You're being creative, you and you enjoy the restaurant.
15:19
Everything seems to be clicking. But then there's the other
15:21
aspect where you're around assholes.
15:24
You don't like it when I'm at work.
15:25
You don't like the food that you're cooking.
15:26
You can be burned out after like as soon as you walk through the
15:28
door. Yeah, I feel you feel disgusted.
15:30
As soon as you walk in, you're like, I don't like this anymore.
15:33
So I, I think it's not always a question of burnout.
15:36
It's a question I'd first ask yourself, do you like what
15:38
you're doing? Because if you don't like what
15:40
you're doing and you don't like your job, it might come across
15:45
as burnout. But no, you just don't like it.
15:47
Burnout. I think it does happen, by the
15:49
way, on a physical side, like you could just be sleep deprived
15:52
and you need, you need to take a day off, you need some rest,
15:55
right? Your brain needs to recharge,
15:57
your body needs to recharge. But I, but I think, I mean, I've
16:01
pushed myself to send them pretty extremes and, and there's
16:03
a lot of people that push themselves to extremes.
16:06
So that would be my first thing I would, I would push back on
16:09
people's. Are you burned out or do you
16:10
just not like your job? Yeah, And you know what I mean?
16:13
It's like I look at cooking as a sport.
16:16
You know, we work long hours, we do long, hard things.
16:20
And, you know, you don't hear Pro Football players
16:22
complaining, complaining about how much, you know, exercise
16:26
they're doing. You know, it's like we, this is
16:27
our sport. We do it and you know, I, I
16:30
turned 40 this year. That was a big thing for me.
16:32
So I'm really trying to focus on my help so I can do this for
16:35
another 1015 for 20 years, because I want to be that old
16:39
guy. Like in the kitchen, you know,
16:41
that'll that old French chef, he's still over the stove
16:44
hanging out. What's true Alon Passard?
16:46
I saw him and I was like, what a legend.
16:48
This is funny, You know, I had, I had this this guy that worked
16:51
for me and and he was like burned out.
16:53
He's like, I'm burned out. I'm burned out.
16:55
And then all of a sudden a cute girl that he fell in love with
16:58
started working there. He was like signing up for
17:00
extra, like, I thought you were burned out.
17:01
Now he wanted to pick up extra shifts.
17:03
He wants to work every day like, oh, I thought you were burned
17:06
out. So it's interesting how that
17:07
environment really does affect it.
17:09
Yeah, fascinating. But yeah, I, I feel, you know,
17:12
at the end of the day, I feel very grateful to be doing the
17:16
things that I'm doing. You know, I feel very grateful
17:19
for the opportunities if I had. And I'm, I'm honestly probably
17:22
having the most fun I think I've ever had in my career up to this
17:25
point. Yeah.
17:27
Does one ever become, does it bleed into the other one?
17:32
So I'll give you an example of what I mean.
17:34
If things are not going well at the restaurant, does that ever
17:36
bleed into the other job or vice versa?
17:38
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if I'm out of town and,
17:42
you know, my shifts need to be covered at Oak Ron, you know,
17:45
every Sunday we do a communal table menu meeting.
17:48
Every Thursday I go through the new food with the team.
17:50
You know, if I can't be there for that, that's tough, you
17:52
know, and they do an amazing job.
17:54
They figure it out. Or vice versa, you know, if I'm
17:57
stressed out at Oak Ron usually inevitably ends up bleeding into
18:02
flagship. Luckily we have our little test
18:05
kitchen and it's pretty pretty chill.
18:07
Do you ever do they ever become a break from one another?
18:12
So like, you know, I, I just can't wait to go to my other
18:16
job. Like I I can't wait to be done
18:20
here so I could go there or vice.
18:22
Yeah, I mean, and you know, it's kind of nice because if I get
18:25
done working a long hard service, I'm like my office job
18:27
is pretty chill, so it's pretty low pressure, so.
18:30
For people that can't understand what you go through, like just
18:32
for context, like you own a farm with animals, you have a
18:36
restaurant, and you're also a corporate chef for another
18:41
restaurant group. Absolutely.
18:45
Don't, don't. Don't anyone sitting here tell
18:47
me you can't be done. It can be done.
18:49
And I have two kids, so I get that too.
18:50
So, but yeah, no, I it's wild. I have a lot of people ask me
18:55
how I do it. And, you know, I'm a firm
18:58
believer that, you know, you kind of get one shot in life and
19:02
you know what's true? You have to explore and try
19:05
everything and every opportunity.
19:07
Everything I've ever done, everything I've ever tried, I've
19:09
been grateful because I've learned so much.
19:10
You're like the Elon Musk chefs. They're that far.
19:14
It's like CEO. Of I just need a billion dollar
19:17
company which will never happen in a restaurant.
19:19
Yeah, maybe that's not the the greatest comparison cuisine wise
19:24
between the two. So are you, are you constantly
19:29
in creative mode and do the 2 restaurant or the restaurant
19:34
group and the restaurant, do they feed each other creatively?
19:39
Yes, 100%. You know, cooking my own food,
19:45
whatever that means, is something I've, you know,
19:47
finally been able to do. And I I was listening to some of
19:50
the other day that I thought was very profound.
19:51
You know, creativity is a muscle.
19:54
You know, if you don't practice it and you don't use it, you
19:57
lose it. I I said that on you.
19:59
Did you? Maybe it was you.
20:00
OK, probably, probably sounds like some of you would have
20:02
said. Yeah, I agree.
20:05
And you know, we opened okra and I was like, shit, we got
20:12
tomatoes early in seasonality. Like the first week I was like,
20:14
we're going to change the menu every week.
20:16
And everyone was like, oh, crap. And it was really tough in the
20:19
beginning, but now it just kind of becomes a thing because we
20:24
were ground farmers. You have this, bring this in,
20:26
we'll cook this. And we changed the menu every so
20:28
forces you to get creative. And you know, we put this great
20:31
cool bone in the old Schnitzel on the menu first year.
20:34
And I was like, I don't want to be the Schnitzel restaurant or I
20:37
don't want to be the roasted chicken restaurant or this
20:40
restaurant. And so very early on, I was
20:42
like, we're going to keep changing things.
20:43
I'm never going to get bored of it.
20:45
And it kind of forces this creativity.
20:46
So for me to sit down and write menus, it's, it's so easy.
20:50
I see product, I get inspired and we come up with dishes.
20:53
We always push ourselves to do new dishes.
20:56
And that flows over when we're developing.
20:58
You know, we did a Mediterranean concept, we did kind of an
21:01
American grill concept. And I'm able to kind of push and
21:03
pull right here, there, everywhere.
21:06
And it just, it's been really good for me to force myself to
21:11
just keep changing, keep evolving.
21:12
Yes, there's some dishes that get missed or slipped through
21:14
the cracks or maybe the one point O wasn't as good as it can
21:18
have been. Sure.
21:19
But you know, I'll tell you what, we always work really hard
21:21
that everyone that leaves the pass is hot, seasoned properly
21:24
and looks presentable. Here's my exercise for
21:29
creativity that I would tell my cooks when they used to work for
21:31
me is if I had, for the sake of conversation, 10 people and we
21:37
needed to change 10 items on the menu, I would say each of you
21:42
needs to come up with 10 dishes. OK, so every single cook had to
21:45
come up with 10 dishes, right? And so when it was time for menu
21:48
meeting, we'd have 100 dishes to choose from because each one
21:52
came up with 10. And then we'd look at that and
21:55
say, OK, but we only need 10, but we have 100 to choose from.
21:58
And it made it made things super easy because we're going to take
22:01
this one, this one, this one. I like that.
22:02
And then sometimes you mix and match like, oh, I like the sauce
22:06
with this duck Instead, let's let's go that way.
22:08
So that was one creative exercise that I would tell
22:11
people, sorry, I'm going to give people another creative exercise
22:14
that could be very beneficial to them as well is every day come
22:20
up with 10 new dishes. Even if you don't do it, just go
22:23
home and write down 10 dishes and what you'll notice is like
22:27
day one and do this for 30 days. Day one is pretty easy.
22:31
Day 2 gets a little harder, but by the time you're on day 15,
22:36
it's like, OK, you're kind of topped out of your creative
22:38
ideas, but by the time you're like on day 25, like it's a
22:42
whole new creative breakthrough that you've got, you've gotten
22:45
to because you've had, you've gotten all the low hanging fruit
22:48
ideas out of the way. And then you're really finding
22:50
some cool stuff, which is, you know, one thing I always love to
22:54
say is I'm not excited about the food I'm cooking today.
22:57
I'm excited about the food we're going to be cooking six months
22:59
from now. So when you kind of embrace this
23:01
idea in this process of just always doubling down and
23:04
continuing to create, I mean, like you said, you'll kind of
23:07
get to that point and you'll come up with some cool unique
23:09
stuff. And you know, it's so much fun
23:12
to see the food evolve and get tighter and do this or we did
23:15
that for a while or now we're doing this.
23:17
I I still love it. What is your creative process
23:20
and do you have a different creative process for each job?
23:23
Yes. So the more corporate job will
23:26
usually travel. We have a great cookbook
23:29
collection. I always like to put myself in
23:31
the mindset of what we're going to be working on.
23:33
Are we doing Japanese steakhouse?
23:35
OK, well what are some of the best Japanese steakhouse in the
23:38
country? I'll do a bunch of digging or
23:41
some really cool Japanese steakhouse cookbooks.
23:45
We'll go take a trip to Chicago for a day and we'll go eat at a
23:48
bunch, you know, probably 5-6 restaurants a day.
23:51
What are some really cool Japanese concepts?
23:55
Them We'll usually do an ideal wall.
23:56
We'll print off some inspiration, we'll pull out some
23:59
cookbook pictures, whatever, and it'll start as the theoretical
24:03
wall. Then we build a theoretical
24:05
menu. Then we start aren't being
24:08
cooked for every dishes. That's usually a three phase
24:11
approach of literally writing down every gram, writing down
24:14
everything. All the recipes in both
24:16
locations in kilos and grams are.
24:18
They yes and no. So when I started at corporate
24:22
it was pounds oz all over the place.
24:24
I've always been a gram guy. Obviously I'm Swiss.
24:27
Got to have the metric system and make so much more sense.
24:30
And you know, we've kind of been converting that over into grams
24:33
and just changing a lot of stuff.
24:34
I mean, it's wild how it's evolved in the time I've been
24:37
there in the last five years. It's just crazy to see.
24:40
And then, you know, okra, it's much more off the cuff.
24:42
You know, we have moleskins. You write it down.
24:47
You know, everybody sits down on Sunday.
24:50
Everybody's welcome to bring ideas.
24:51
Ever going to bring whatever we do round table and what do you
24:54
want to cook this week? What do you want to see?
24:56
What do we like we do a farmers list.
24:58
What do we have from our farmers right now?
25:00
What proteins are we really excited about what you know I
25:03
got this really cool Wagyu guide brings me cool swagyu.
25:05
How can we feature this product? What components do we have all
25:09
we got some fermented green garlic.
25:11
Let's do some with that. So that's kind of just the two
25:16
different, but you know, one's long and drawn out and very
25:20
dialed in. The other one's a little bit
25:21
more off the cuff. But it's funny because the two,
25:24
you know, the concepts are so different when you when you look
25:28
at them on paper. You don't.
25:31
I've been changing my mind a lot on recipes, by the way.
25:35
I think we've talked. About yeah, we have, yeah.
25:37
You know, in speaking with Casey Wall and some other chefs,
25:41
specifically Casey Wall and David Breeden, more so David
25:43
Breeden, Casey Wall explained to me how he was doing Baker's
25:48
percentages on his recipes. David Breeden has told me that
25:51
for years, but I've just never done it.
25:53
I've seen the Baker's in the pastry shop.
25:55
But now that I understand, I would definitely encourage
26:00
people to do all their recipes by by percent.
26:03
It just seems like fuck now, now that it's so much easier to
26:07
scale, it's so much easier to to write the recipes and you'll go
26:10
up or down and if and if those percentages as long as they're.
26:14
Bulletproof. They won't fuck up.
26:16
You know what, I'm, I'm working on a new project right now that
26:20
will be kind of transition away from kind of my corporate life
26:24
kind of more out onto my own. And I think that's what I'm
26:26
going to do. I'm just going to do Baker's
26:28
percentage. I'm going to do all that and
26:31
just start there because I mean, blank slate is great, but now
26:34
it's kind of the time to to double down and make that
26:37
happen. So, and I hope I'm allowed to
26:39
talk. About this on there.
26:40
Go ahead. Yeah.
26:41
But you're also thinking about maybe opening up a tasting menu
26:43
restaurant. So yeah, that's in the works.
26:46
I'm transitioning out of my corporate position.
26:49
I'm going to try something again on my own with some partners
26:53
that I'm really excited about. So different from Akron.
26:56
Different. From Akron, you know Akron well,
26:59
you know the team's going to help.
27:00
It'll it'll be part of that family as well.
27:03
But I'm kind of taking a plunge. I'm a try it.
27:05
We'll see how it goes. But this will be the only
27:08
tasting menu only restaurant in Omaha.
27:12
They'll be a downstairs as well that will be doing kind of an
27:15
Italian style pizza and pasta kind of back to my Italian roots
27:18
and kind of back to my fine dining side of things.
27:22
But I'm, I'm really excited to get back in there and start
27:25
cooking and just pushing myself. You know, I, I, I got a few more
27:29
years of just grinding and. Correct me if I'm wrong because
27:32
it's been a while since we we spoke about this, but your plan
27:36
on being the chef, like chef the cuisine in the kitchen of this
27:39
tasting, Yeah. So I'll be there donating
27:43
probably pics four years of my life, you know, working double S
27:46
But you know, I'm excited. I'm excited to get back into it.
27:49
I think, you know, on the corporate side thinks you're
27:51
just out, you're just not in the day-to-day.
27:55
And maybe something's wrong with me, but I still love the
27:57
day-to-day, you know, I still love topping off my pepper mill.
28:00
I still love wiping out my station, and I still love
28:02
slicing proteins. You know, I still love plating,
28:06
I still love all that stuff. So I'm kind of eager to just
28:10
give it my all and double down and really push myself and see
28:14
what I can come up with food wise and concept wise and
28:18
execution wise. Yeah, when you look at culinary
28:22
and you, you view it through the same lens that you're, you're
28:24
talking about where you're able to play, you're able to plate,
28:27
you're able to cook, you're able to cut proteins.
28:29
And if that brings you a tremendous amount of joy, how
28:32
the fuck can you get burned out like you're you're doing what
28:35
you love to do? I love fucking plating.
28:38
I love cutting fish. I love butchering, whatever the
28:41
case may be. Yeah, I how am I going to get
28:43
burned out of that? I fucking love doing it.
28:45
You're absolutely right. You know, and I think there was
28:47
a time when I was running the kitchen every single day, and my
28:50
rule at Oakland was never count the hours, Never ever count the
28:53
hours. I can tell you I worked a lot of
28:55
hours those first 3 1/2 years. And I think I did kind of get to
28:58
that point. And I think, you know, through
29:01
shifting and doing other things and learning other things, you
29:04
know, running our farm, working a corporate job, you know, doing
29:07
all these other things have kind of re inspired me to get back to
29:11
that. And I have a new found
29:12
appreciation for that now. And I, I know now that that's
29:15
where I want to be and that's what I want to do and I'm
29:18
looking forward to it. So we've had for people that
29:20
don't know, we've had a lot of conversations.
29:22
I have a lot of hot takes on tasting menus and you don't
29:26
always agree with me. That's OK.
29:27
So what is what is your opinion on tasting menus right now and
29:31
and what do you plan on doing with the restaurant
29:33
specifically? So I think we'll probably do 10
29:36
courses Max. I think we'll probably work some
29:39
stuff in there. Is that can include like bites
29:40
at the beginning or miniardi's or something?
29:42
Yeah, yes, You know, it'll be a progression.
29:46
I'm, you know, it's always evolving.
29:48
It'll be, you know, Autocron, we do a 6-7 course tasting menu
29:52
that is always going to be kind of our staple.
29:55
It's always burner bread and butter price points, like 85
29:58
bucks. I think it's super approachable.
30:01
You know, we're going to probably double or triple that
30:02
price point. We'll really double down, buy a
30:05
nicer product, you know, do a nice progression.
30:09
I have a pretty standard progression.
30:11
We'll always do a house made pasta.
30:12
We'll probably start with some smaller bites.
30:14
We'll work into it. You know, we talked about this
30:17
before and I love this. You know what, it'll be somewhat
30:21
be focused just because we have some really cool unique access
30:25
to some beef programs that are I think world class right in our
30:29
backyard about an hour north of us.
30:31
You know, there's a lot of other producers that we just want to
30:34
highlight and it'll evolve and Max probably 10-11 courses,
30:39
maybe some supplements, maybe I don't know.
30:41
But I do want it to be unique. I do want it to be very kind of
30:46
Nebraska specific and you know what's going on an old kind of
30:51
historical building. So I kind of want to tie into
30:53
that and just kind of, you know, as you're seeing like a lot of
30:56
old school stuff kind of become new school now I kind of want to
31:00
dive into that. And you don't have the food.
31:03
I mean, I'm working with trying to find organic, you know,
31:06
Nebraska flour. I'm, I'm really trying to double
31:09
down and just how can we just encapsulate this whole terroir,
31:14
if you will, and get that on the plate?
31:17
Cooking proteins, I think is something that's cooking
31:20
proteins properly. And advanced cooking of proteins
31:23
is something that I think you're going to start to see more and
31:25
more of, especially when you see chefs like Ron McKinley.
31:27
Yeah, he's he's the fucking goat.
31:30
He is, yeah. And just watching him butcher.
31:32
Yeah, I got some work to do. Like watching him do shit and
31:35
it's like anything that he makes, you know, it's layered.
31:38
You know, he's going to make a farce.
31:38
He's going to do something with the fat.
31:40
He's going to, he's going to make the, you know, the
31:44
croissant just perfect after, you know, the cook is just
31:47
perfect. And you see that.
31:50
And I, I'm starting to notice, like a lot of chefs get really
31:52
good at plating and a lot of chefs get really good at
31:55
creating raw dishes that don't require you to cook anything.
31:59
Yeah, yeah. And I think what's unique about
32:02
what you're talking about is you are going to have a lot more
32:06
meat centric dishes. It's going to go back to
32:08
cooking. Yes.
32:10
And you know, and that's, you're right, like sous video kind of
32:13
ruined that in a way. And I was never the hugest fan
32:16
of sous video. I did it plenty of time, but
32:17
it's almost too easy. I kind of call it cheating.
32:19
But you know, the art of really nailing and roasting a protein
32:24
and letting it rest out and letting it bloom perfectly,
32:27
There's not a lot of people that can do that, you know, and it's,
32:30
it's awesome. You know, I did a stash at 11
32:32
Madison Park years ago and you know, the sous chef walked up to
32:36
me with a lamb loy and he goes, you got 45 minutes, make a dish,
32:40
go make 2 plates of food. And you know, I'll never
32:44
remember, but luckily I worked at a restaurant where, you know,
32:46
we use cake testers and we tempt our meat and we let it rest.
32:49
And I was so nervous slicing into it.
32:52
But you know, I was able to slice into it.
32:54
It mean it was just a quarter temperature under.
32:57
But you know, I was rested and it did bleed on the plate.
32:59
And you know, you know, I'm very grateful that I kind of learned
33:03
how to cook proteins like that. But I mean, you're right.
33:06
It's, I think it's all coming back.
33:07
Farces, layering, roulades, you know, all that.
33:10
It's awesome. It's a lot of fun.
33:12
It's funny you say the cake tester.
33:13
I think that's like one of the most underutilized tools for OH.
33:16
100%. Fuck, when I see someone with a
33:18
cake tester that's not a not in the pastry shop, I'm like, OK,
33:21
they know how to cook. Yeah, it's like, it's like a
33:23
little clue that they know what they're doing.
33:25
Yeah, they have a cake tester. I mean, it's a game changer.
33:28
Nobody uses it. I'm like, you know, my little
33:30
brother's like, what are you doing?
33:31
She's a thermometer. I'm like sorry dude of old
33:33
school. Yeah, they used to say, you
33:35
know, like when I was when I was a young cook, you know, the
33:37
chefs would have mustaches. Yeah.
33:40
And the reason they would, you know, this is what my chef told
33:42
me. Like the reason chefs have
33:43
mustaches because of all the burns from the the cake testers.
33:46
Yeah. Yeah.
33:47
The cake tester the needle that they would use to tempt me is
33:49
like so the mustache would hide the.
33:52
You know the scars we used to say if you burned him, if the
33:55
cake tester burned you, throw it out and start over right now
33:57
because she gone. Right, right.
34:00
Like if it burned you, it's toast.
34:02
It is going to be well done so. Yeah, I fucking, I love lamb.
34:06
It's funny that you're talking about lamb loin.
34:07
I was, I was like, I was driving the other day.
34:09
I was like, you know, I want to stop at the store and just buy a
34:11
rack of lamb. Well, I I haven't cooked a rat
34:13
just at home, right? Because yeah, I don't have a a
34:15
place that I'm cooking at professionally, but I just miss
34:19
cooking a perfect rack of lamb. Oh man, it's the best well
34:21
rested lamb is like you know, and you can't serve lamb medium
34:26
rare. It's got to be mid rare medium,
34:28
like it just has to be more of that protein that fat needs to
34:31
rest. Like it just, I don't know, it's
34:34
it's a lot of fun. Yeah, cooking meat probably.
34:36
And then and in that, in that same conversation, is also
34:39
cooking fish properly. Oh, 100% yeah.
34:42
Yeah. Crispy skin, basted, not cold,
34:44
not overcooked. I went to a prelude here in
34:46
Austin. So my friend Chef Matthew
34:48
Peters, shout out to Matt Peters, amazing chef but custior
34:52
winner, the only American to ever do it.
34:54
And he sent out this little fish course.
34:57
I happen to be with Ron McKinley.
34:59
OK, so. Ron and I are sitting there
35:00
having, having cocktails and snacks and this beautiful fish
35:07
course comes out and it was just, it was like 2 things on
35:11
the plate off top of it. It was like a, it was a
35:13
beautiful crust on the fish, beautiful fish and a caviar like
35:17
a, like a, like a Burblon but with caviar in it.
35:20
It's like the best fucking fish course I've had in a long time.
35:25
That's amazing. It was like why?
35:27
Well, because the three things on the plate, the crust, the
35:31
fish and the sauce, perfect. I love that the crust was crisp,
35:34
the fish was like perfect and the sauce was like perfect.
35:39
It's like people overcomplicate. They think they need like 100
35:42
things. Like if you give me 3 perfect
35:44
things I'm going to talk about on the air for fucking 20
35:46
minutes. You know, and you know, all the
35:48
chefs say that, you know, less is more like pulling stuff away.
35:51
And you know, I'm learning how to do that.
35:54
But it's it's always easier said than done it it really is.
35:59
But yeah, I'm kind of bummed. We were going to go to Prelude,
36:02
but they're literally randomly closed this couple days.
36:05
I'm in Austin so I'll have to go on the list for later, but I'm
36:07
excited to check it out. Another recent memory that I
36:11
have that I guess talking about seafood I ate at estate here in
36:14
Austin, which while you're here, you should go check it out.
36:16
So shout out for me in unison and the crew there.
36:19
We went and ordered the shellfish tower for two.
36:22
It's like, you know, I'm I'm with another chef and they were
36:26
like, let's just get the shellfish tower.
36:28
The shellfish tower at Este is like fuck it.
36:31
Sounds it's so so. Good.
36:34
It's so good and it and again, it's one of these lost art
36:36
things like if you could execute well on your shellfish tower,
36:39
like yeah, make sure the prawns are poached properly, they're
36:41
not overcooked or not rubbery. Make sure that the oysters are
36:44
fresh. Make sure the lobsters cooked
36:46
right. Make sure the you know if you
36:48
have a crudo or something like. Make sure the fish is fresh.
36:51
People miss that. You know.
36:52
The basics. The basics.
36:54
Absolutely. And you know, there's something
36:56
to be said about, you know, working in a lot of different
37:00
style of restaurants. You know, you can work at a
37:02
restaurant that's not very food focused and do very high volume.
37:04
You're going to become a fast chef.
37:06
You know, there's something to be said about all these
37:08
different experiences you're going to have that you know,
37:11
everyone's like, I'm a fine dining chef.
37:13
Well, it's great. But like, have you ever banged
37:14
out banquet, you know, a banquet for 300 people?
37:18
Can you make this for that many people without over cooking it?
37:21
You know, there's a certain skill set of all these different
37:25
restaurants that I think make really well around our chefs and
37:28
cooks that it's, it's not a bad thing.
37:30
You know, like, oh, you worked here.
37:31
I'm like, well, yeah, you became fast.
37:33
You did this, you got good at that.
37:34
So I'm a firm believer. And learned how to not panic
37:37
when you need 100 portions really quick.
37:39
Exactly. Stuff like that that I think are
37:41
really good skills that sometimes people kind of frown
37:43
upon, but I'm like, that's good. Like, you got to have a
37:45
different range, you got to try different things, you got to
37:47
learn all kinds of different styles of stuff because it's
37:50
only going to make you better. Like you said, you said range,
37:52
so it made me think of actors. Like actors with range could
37:54
play a lot of different parts. Yeah.
37:56
Or else if you're only good at one thing, you get typecast like
37:59
100%. You're only going to play the
38:00
Italian mafia. Character and that's it.
38:02
That's it. That's all that's.
38:03
All you got but if. But if you have range and you
38:06
could do a lot of different things like you could, you have
38:09
an exponential amount of opportunities in front of you.
38:11
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
38:13
So what are you excited about currently on the Tasty menu?
38:17
We just did a super fun menu these last two weeks.
38:20
We brought in some EKG maze snapper.
38:23
We had some fermented golden tomato water.
38:25
We, you know, we have a smoker out behind the restaurant we
38:27
smoked that made kind of our dashi, if you will, you know,
38:32
did that with the tomato water. Just very clean black lime tray,
38:36
crispy skin fish, very light, very simple.
38:38
How'd you How'd you make the tomato dashi?
38:41
So I just took golden organic golden cherry tomatoes from one
38:46
of our farmers, fermented that 2% salt, cleaned up the EKG may
38:50
fish, cleaned up the bones really nice, threw them on the
38:53
smoker for probably a couple hours, turned that into the
38:56
stock. You know aromatics.
38:58
I usually do light aromatics, onions, fennel, Bay leaf, white
39:02
pepper and then cooked that for about an hour.
39:06
Cleaned that up, did like 2 to one smoked fumet to we made some
39:12
took some combo as well and steep that in there kind of made
39:14
like a doshi asking to the tableside pour on that.
39:18
We have this really cool Wagyu farmer.
39:20
It's called N 40 beef. I literally met this guy on
39:24
Craigslist. I bought a full blood Wagyu cow
39:26
from him and he's like I have a Wagyu program.
39:28
Here's a rib eye and I saw it and I was like this is amazing.
39:32
So I met our Wagyu farmer on Craigslist.
39:36
We started buying beef from him and I'm blown away, blown away.
39:39
So we did just a very simple we took Denver, we smoked it.
39:45
We did actually souvie this, which we never do, but it just
39:48
the smoke flavor captured so well in the sous video, just
39:52
cold smoked. And then we did we have just
39:56
foraged head of the woods right now.
39:57
We have a really cool local mushroom guy made a duck sell
40:00
mushroom dumpling. Just kind of highlighted the
40:02
meat meat with our chicken chew. And some sauerkraut puree and
40:07
garnish. But I mean, those two dishes
40:10
were just a lot of fun to play. Call my chef.
40:12
The cuisine did a really cool like mushroom chip and you know,
40:16
we're getting there. We're still learning, but I feel
40:17
like we're having some fun, so. Do you?
40:19
Do you? Is there is there anything right
40:22
now that it really excites you about cooking?
40:26
Yeah, product, product. Yeah, because I know you're big
40:29
time into sustainable agriculture.
40:31
Yeah, You know, I, it's kind of why we kind of do the whole farm
40:36
thing. It just helps connect you with
40:38
where stuff's coming from. No pro #1 it's too much work.
40:41
Like all those farmers that show up with those bus tubs and
40:44
vegetables, I'm like, you guys are killing it.
40:46
I understand now how hard that is, you know, and how much work
40:50
that is and building soil health and, you know, building, you
40:56
know, good soil is good food. Good food is, you know, becoming
41:01
somewhat quickly obsolete. You know, and that's what gets
41:05
me excited is supporting farmers that are growing things
41:09
properly, you know, that are doing things regeneratively, You
41:11
know, they are composting. They are doing this and it just
41:14
gives you a better product and it just you taste the
41:18
difference. It's so wild.
41:19
I mean when you take Cisco basil and local basil.
41:22
What do you what do you have right on the farm for you?
41:24
Like at your farm? Yep.
41:25
So we actually, we do heirloom breed of pigs called Kuni Kuni's
41:29
from New Zealand and they're kind of a pasture pig.
41:32
We've been serving those at the restaurant.
41:34
You know, I feed them out, I take new USDA processor, they
41:38
come whole, I butcher them. We have a ton of fun breaking
41:41
down whole animals. We do just a ton of different
41:44
stuff, you know, cure own bacon. Do you know pork Schnitzel with
41:49
the legs? We I bone out the legs, you
41:51
know, we'll do, we'll smoke the bones and make sugo.
41:53
We'll really try to really utilize everything.
41:58
Do you have like a charcuterie program that you?
42:01
Don't. My buddy does some really
42:03
awesome charcuterie down in Lincoln so we use his stuff.
42:06
But bacon guanciale? That's like how any other like
42:10
lesser cured stuff will do a lot of that.
42:12
Well, I do like making sausage will make like merguez with like
42:16
traditional sheep's casings and lamb and stuff like that.
42:19
I love doing that. Eggs, you know, I will say the
42:23
eggs from the farm, it's wild, it's day and night.
42:26
The yolks, it's just, it's day and night.
42:28
Is it? Is it flavor?
42:29
Is it color? Is.
42:29
It it's all of the above. And the way the shells break
42:32
too, right? It's yeah, it's wild.
42:34
I wish I could not be so busy and just really focus on
42:39
farming. I think that's my retirement
42:40
dream is do a farm an actual farm restaurant from table
42:44
restaurant at the farm. But you know, it is an insane
42:49
amount of work. I have so much respect.
42:50
You know, I'm up. I'm feeding cows, I'm feeding
42:53
pigs at night, I'm feeding cows, I'm feeding pigs.
42:55
I'm shutting in the chickens. It's.
42:56
Insane how much you do. It's fucking insane.
42:59
Like like running a farm, being a father.
43:02
Yeah, only in a restaurant, being a corporate chef.
43:06
It's it's time. It's time to take it a little
43:10
easier, but yeah, it's. Fine.
43:11
And opening another one as we speak.
43:13
Exactly. So go big or go home.
43:16
You're crazy. It's wild, but that that's why
43:19
you're successful at what you do.
43:21
You know, I feel grateful I get to do it all.
43:22
You know, I have opportunities and I I feel determined to, to
43:26
see how far I can push it. What do you think restaurants
43:30
could do? So for people that are
43:31
listening, what are some best practices to incorporate more of
43:36
that sustainable agriculture into their into their restaurant
43:40
operations? You know, I think one of the
43:43
coolest things is just going to the farmers market.
43:45
Yeah, I go to the farmers market and I just scanned.
43:46
I'm like, hey, what's your name? I really like your stuff.
43:49
What do you got? You know, and we kind of dictate
43:54
what they grow for us. But, I mean, you can go to the
43:56
farmers market. You can meet a handful of
43:58
farmers, talk to them. They're always happy to talk.
44:01
We just found some really cool lamb out of Des Moines, you
44:03
know, by doing that. And you know, they're out there,
44:08
they're growing stuff. They're almost always going to
44:11
have extra stuff. They're almost always going to
44:12
give you a good price on it. And you know, if you take a look
44:17
at side by side product from a commodity vendor in your
44:19
farmers, it's day and night it is.
44:21
The quality is day and night. It just blows my mind every time
44:25
they show up. We don't serve asparagus,
44:28
tomatoes. I mean, there's a handful of
44:30
stuffed Peaches. We don't serve them unless
44:32
they're in season. We just won't do it because it's
44:33
just not. It's just not in season.
44:36
It's just not the. Same.
44:37
It's against the ethos of your restaurant.
44:39
Yeah, I mean, it's just like we wait for asparagus.
44:41
We, you know, we're so sick of like beets, sweet potatoes and
44:44
squash come like March, Like where is the first of the season
44:48
asparagus, you know, where are the spring onions?
44:50
Where is the stuff? And it's, you know, we get 5060
44:54
lbs of just the most beautiful green asparagus, the bottoms not
44:58
even woody. We trim, you know, maybe 1/2
45:00
inch off because we don't have to, because it's not woody.
45:02
It hasn't been sitting, you know it, it just blows my mind.
45:06
Peaches, you know, we wait all year for the Peaches in the
45:08
summertime. You know, tomatoes, heirloom
45:11
tomatoes will always do like steak and tomatoes or stuff like
45:14
that. It just blows my mind the
45:18
quality difference. Yeah, What's the Yeah, the the
45:21
chef with better ingredients has the advantage over the one with,
45:24
you know, regardless of technical talent.
45:26
That's what Thomas Colorway said.
45:28
Better ingredients is better chef.
45:29
Better ingredients, better chef, right?
45:31
I mean it's and you don't understand that until you really
45:34
work with better ingredients. Yeah.
45:36
And it was, you know, it wasn't until I, you know, I was working
45:40
in Colorado. I moved out to Napa and I was
45:43
like, wow. I was like, I hated salmon.
45:45
I always hated salmon. And then we got salmon, and I
45:48
was like, we always had Sam Tartar on the menu.
45:51
And I was like, that's gross. I would never eat that.
45:54
I took one bite. Life changed, you know, this was
45:57
true. Actual quality salmon.
45:59
You remember what it was. Yeah, it was locked door, I
46:02
think it was. Scottish.
46:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scottish salmon, right?
46:06
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's good.
46:07
That's good, yeah. It was, yeah.
46:09
I'm trying to think I've had a God.
46:12
What is it? There's a salmon right now.
46:17
It'll it'll come to me. Bacafrost.
46:19
No, it's. Ora, King Ora.
46:23
King Salmon. That's it.
46:24
Yeah. Ora King Salmon.
46:25
Like they're not sponsored the show.
46:26
They should. Ora King, if you're listening,
46:29
yeah. And the salmon, yeah.
46:32
This was a free. This was free.
46:36
Next one, Next one's not. Next one's not shit.
46:40
Yeah, or king salmon is really beautiful, But I I do like
46:43
salmon. I mean, it's like the most
46:45
popular fish. I you need to sell a fish on the
46:47
restaurant menu like put the salmon but it's but it sells.
46:50
And it sells and it prepared well.
46:53
It's good. I just don't love salmon like
46:55
everybody else does. But I do love to cook salmon.
46:57
I love cheered salmon. I love smoked salmon.
47:00
I love raw salmon. Do you like Tilapia Chef?
47:07
Fried tilapia at a good Mexican restaurant is delicious.
47:10
So if you had to tell people, here's some of the things that
47:14
you need to know before you open up a restaurant, Like what's
47:16
some good advice because you've opened plenty, not just not just
47:19
on your own, but also with with the group.
47:21
What are some things that people should know before they think
47:24
that, hey, I want to go open up a restaurant?
47:26
You know, I think the biggest learning curve for me was just
47:29
learning how to money flows. You know, I'm learning.
47:32
So you know, I'm like, we sold $5000.
47:37
I'm like, where did it all go? You know, and I mean, you know,
47:42
a good restaurant, a well run restaurant takes 10% to the
47:46
bottom line. You know, the average, I think
47:48
the national average is five, 6%.
47:52
So you got to understand, $0.95 of every dollar that comes into
47:56
your restaurant is spent already before anything.
48:00
Food, labor cost, prime costs, overhead, all that stuff.
48:04
And that was kind of a rude realization for me because I'm
48:07
like, you know, we're starting to bring people in.
48:09
We're starting to sell more. I'm like, why don't we have any
48:11
money in the bank? Why don't we have this?
48:13
And you know, I won't recommend people doing it Like I did it.
48:17
I took out a $35,000 personal loan.
48:20
My business partner had a space. We partnered up, We did all the
48:24
construction ourselves. They built every tabletop, we
48:27
painted every wall. We did everything ourselves.
48:30
Got the doors open and just started doing what we did.
48:34
Three months and I'm like, why is no one eating here?
48:35
You know, we didn't market, we didn't do anything and I would
48:39
not recommend doing that. It worked, it got U.S.
48:41
Open, but, you know, just be prepared to to marathon.
48:48
And that is probably the best thing that I've learned.
48:50
It's a marathon, not a Sprint. And, you know, you spend so many
48:53
years of your career and you're one of those people that
48:56
actually, you know, everybody's like, I'm going to open my own
48:58
restaurant. Well then, you know, you end up
48:59
being one of those people that actually does.
49:02
And it's like having a child. You're like, OK, now you have
49:04
the child. Now the real work starts and you
49:06
got to raise that child for 18/19/20 years.
49:09
So get ready, buckle down, and slow and steady wins the race.
49:14
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's, that's, that's
49:18
great advice. And people don't often think
49:20
about it that way. They just think I'm going to put
49:21
up my restaurant and I'm going to get rich.
49:23
Yeah, doesn't work that way. It doesn't.
49:25
And it's just like, well, then what?
49:27
That was a big thing for me. I was like open my restaurant
49:29
and I was like, we're going to be so successful and it's going
49:31
to be great. And I'm like, oh shit, what do I
49:33
do now? I'm like, I got all this other
49:35
stuff that these real life events that happen.
49:39
How do you navigate that? You know, how do you be around
49:42
for your kids? You know, I mean, I changed my
49:44
schedule so I could watch my son two days a week.
49:46
You know, I was able to do that. But you know, you just get
49:49
creative and and you have to figure it out.
49:51
But you know, life doesn't stop. Like all that life stuff still
49:55
going to be a thing and you still got to manage it.
49:57
You still going to make it happen and you still got to be
49:59
and. There's always uncertainty in
50:00
the economy and you know, something like COVID could
50:02
happen and shut everything down. How did how did you go through
50:05
that? We sold to go meals like drugs
50:07
out of the back of our restaurant.
50:09
We had a line of cars and we would do take and bake lasagnas.
50:13
We would do take and bake. We would do chicken pot pie.
50:16
We would do an every once a week, every Friday, we would
50:19
literally tray everything up in aluminum pans.
50:22
And our manager, Mandy, she was best would have a list be like,
50:27
all right, Bob's here. All right, He gets 22 bottles of
50:30
wine. And we just like take turns
50:32
running stuff out the back door. The cars would line up, they get
50:35
the lasagna, the chicken pot pie and you know, it helped.
50:39
It really helped so. Normally when we get closer to
50:43
wrapping up the show, I have like my wrap up questions.
50:46
So let's talk about your workstation.
50:49
OK, so wherever that may be, maybe you're on the pass, maybe
50:53
you're inside Expo, however it works.
50:55
But what is the all-purpose work salt in your kitchen?
50:59
So we tried Morton's. That did not work.
51:01
So now we're back to Diamond Crystal, even though I hate how
51:04
expensive it's gotten. It's hard to find too.
51:06
Yes it is. And Fleur de Cell to finish,
51:10
Flirtisil to finish. Yep, I like the granules
51:13
Diamond. Crystal all-purpose?
51:14
Yep. OK.
51:16
What do you have like an all-purpose acid go to for fin?
51:19
Sherry vinegar and lemon juice. I love Sherry, it's the best.
51:25
Specific type of Sherry, Yeah. Spanish.
51:27
Yeah, it's got to be Spanish, Sherry.
51:30
Yeah, yeah, I like, I like Sherry vinegar as well.
51:32
I I also sometimes like like Baniel's vinegar as well.
51:35
I love make a mignonette with beaniels.
51:37
Yeah, yeah, it's expensive, but when I have the opportunity to
51:40
use Beaniels, I'll use Beaniels. But Sherry vinegar, lemon, lemon
51:43
cheeks. What about your plate wipe?
51:48
How do you how do you how do you do your plate wipe?
51:50
I love this. So we do bar polishing towels,
51:54
wrap, roll them up really tight, white vinegar and water.
51:58
Yeah, you keep them all soaked on the station.
51:59
I keep them all soaked and then I ring them out and then I
52:01
ration them out because next thing you know, 7:30 on Saturday
52:05
night, there's one on the Oyster station and there's one over
52:07
there that there's one somewhere else and you're like, guys, put
52:11
it back. Got it.
52:12
Yeah, yeah. Is there something that you do
52:15
in your kitchen that you think is unique that you think a lot
52:19
of people could benefit from that are listening?
52:22
You know, we, you know, we kind of have, you know, kitchens
52:26
evolve a lot have evolved, but we can have our chefs prep and
52:31
work their station, right? So we're only open four nights a
52:34
week or dinner only. And I love that because you are
52:40
the chef of your station. If you're a lead Carmo, you're
52:43
in charge of your station. If your pasta, you're in charge
52:45
of making the pasta and executing it during dinner
52:48
service, you know, if you're the meat cook and you're responsible
52:50
for prepping the meat station and you're responsible for
52:53
cooking that. And it just keeps chefs more in
52:56
tune with what they're doing, how they're doing it.
52:58
No one's covering their days off.
53:00
You know, it just that's it. That's what you're doing for
53:04
next week. And I like the consistency
53:06
aspect of that. Blue tape or green tape?
53:14
Green tape, of course. Cut it.
53:16
Oh, tape cutter scissors. Always.
53:18
Oh, we do, yeah. No heathens in our kitchen.
53:20
No tape tearing heathens in our kitchen.
53:23
OK, scissors, pocket knife, slicer, whatever.
53:27
But yeah. No torn tape.
53:28
No torn tape label date initial. That's been a struggle lately,
53:31
but we're we're getting back there.
53:33
I'm I'm a label date initial. So short.
53:37
The shorter the better. Yeah, tapes.
53:38
Expensive. Yeah, they don't.
53:39
You know product date initial. Yes, it's not rock science, but
53:44
you'd be surprised. It's simple, and it blows my
53:46
mind that people are like, we don't have time to cut tape.
53:48
It's like you don't. It takes the same amount of
53:50
effort to cut it as it does to tear it.
53:52
Yeah, like, what the fuck are you talking about?
53:54
Like if you don't have time to cut tape.
53:56
Then you're doing a lot of other things wrong, yeah.
53:59
Yeah. And it's not about the cutting
54:01
the tape. Like if you don't want to cut
54:03
the tape, that's fine. Yeah, but don't say you don't
54:05
have time. Yeah, and you know.
54:08
Some lazy shit. It wasn't still on me.
54:11
Care about the tape, care about the product.
54:13
You know, everything's important.
54:15
Your initials on it, you're proud of it like I did this.
54:17
Be proud. Be proud of your knife skills.
54:18
That's what I was saying. Everything's important.
54:20
What's important? Everything.
54:21
Absolutely. How do you know?
54:22
Because everything's important. Every and I was telling my guys,
54:26
I'm like, you get the small things right.
54:28
The big things end up coming together.
54:29
But if you don't, if you lose focus on the small things, it's
54:33
tough. Like you just it, it's going to
54:35
be so much harder. If if you had a chef's PSA out
54:38
there for people, what would it be?
54:39
I love this. Don't say heard.
54:41
Don't say heard. Yeah, why?
54:42
Why not? By the way, I'm, I'm a, I'm a
54:45
yes chef person or a chef person.
54:46
I'm not a heard person. I my thing is always heard what
54:50
heard what heard heard heard heard heard we're 10 minutes out
54:53
heard we're 15 minutes out heard you know your next pick.
54:56
You know what you're bringing you know don't say heard because
55:00
heard what you know first course out onto beef.
55:04
Did you hear where first course out onto beef.
55:05
Are you just saying heard because you think you did?
55:07
Because 5 minutes later and be like where's my beef?
55:10
Oh, I didn't hurt. It it just becomes a an
55:14
automatic response without thinking.
55:16
Yeah, and that's what I, I know it's dumb, but that is my pet
55:19
peeve. I'm like, you're going.
55:20
To get beat up in the comments, OK, that's fine.
55:22
They're going to come at you. It's.
55:23
All right, they can't find me. I mean, don't Moss suck if?
55:28
You had a Mount Rushmore of chefs who?
55:30
Who deserves me? A Mount Rushmore.
55:31
You know, definitely, obviously Thomas Keller, you know, Phillip
55:37
Tessier, I spent some time working for him.
55:39
I learned a ton. Just blown away by the things I
55:43
learned from him. Kind of really changed my career
55:46
course as a chef. You know, Philip Meisel, my old
55:50
chef, kind of took me on his wing, got me over the Europe,
55:52
really kind of mentored me a lot on that next kind of steps after
55:57
that. He was a really amazing chef.
55:59
And you know, I think for the last one, it's got to be
56:02
Escoffier. We always forget, like where we
56:05
came from, who standardized the kitchen, who gave us the
56:07
brigade, you know? Who?
56:09
He wrote a whole language. Yeah, who gave us this world
56:13
that we all get to be a part of? It was him, you know.
56:16
You know, people talk shit on Escoffier or on, you know, the
56:19
French culinary system, but I, I don't and I and I, and I think
56:25
we're not doing ourselves any any favors by, by trash talking
56:29
Escoffier. And here's why.
56:31
What Escoffier built was brilliant.
56:34
He built a whole language. Like if you understand mirepoix
56:36
and you understand mother sauces and you understand this and this
56:41
plus this equals this, right? Do you understand?
56:44
You can go anywhere in the world.
56:45
You could be in Tokyo, Japan, you could be in Austin, TX, you
56:49
could be in Chicago. And they could say, give me a
56:52
sauceron. You know exactly what it means.
56:54
Everyone knows what it meant. And you were able to then say,
56:58
OK, we have a system and we have a language that we could
57:01
communicate in culinary wise. And it was able to be
57:06
communicated all over the world. This, this culinary language
57:09
that everyone understood, like OK, this plus this plus this
57:12
equals this. Boom, we, we get it.
57:15
You know, and the thing I always go back to the only way you can,
57:20
you know, combat the chaos and wildness of running a restaurant
57:24
structure and organization, right?
57:25
So. And Escoffier did that for us.
57:28
And I'm, and I'm not saying that other cuisines and other
57:30
cultures are less delicious or more delicious.
57:33
That's not what I'm trying to say.
57:35
What I'm trying to say is he created a system that was easily
57:38
teachable and scalable globally. And if other cultures and
57:44
cuisines have done that, I just don't know about it.
57:46
I'm not saying they haven't. I just it's, it's, it's not so
57:49
easy to go across to, to everywhere all over the world
57:53
and say, can you do this? Like, well, no, I've never, I'm
57:55
not familiar with that. But there is some sort of
57:58
culinary fundamental language, the basics that we understand,
58:01
like, hey, do you know what Maripoise?
58:03
Yeah, it's this. Do you know what a fume is?
58:04
Yes. Do you know what a stock is?
58:05
Yeah, we got it. Yeah, and I mean that stuff
58:08
you're just going to use every day, Bechamel.
58:10
I mean, Mornay, you know, there's just stuff that so
58:14
important that gets used every day and a lot of people don't
58:17
even know. But that was escapier, yeah.
58:19
He gave us, He gave us an alphabet and then he gave us
58:23
grammar. And then and then with that
58:25
grammar, we're able to put sentences and then we're able to
58:27
tell stories, right? That's the menu.
58:28
That's the food that you create. Anyway, that's my Escoffier
58:31
rant. Last question, if you had a
58:34
bucket list, do we do all four for Mount Rushmore?
58:37
We did. Yeah, I think so.
58:38
Keller Yeah. Yeah.
58:39
OK, we did. If you had a bucket list chef,
58:43
living or dead, that you wanted to have their food, who would it
58:46
be and why? I mean, there's a few.
58:48
Just one chef. Just one chef, probably.
58:56
I would have loved to have experienced elderly, you know,
59:00
as I'm getting older, you always say you're going to get this
59:03
restaurant. Sometimes you can't and that's a
59:05
bummer. You know, I would have loved to
59:09
kind of, you know, not that I'm a big molecular guy, but I would
59:12
love to just seen that executed and the 20 course tasting and
59:18
all the wild stuff because it was a game changer for the
59:22
culinary world for a long time and it's gone now.
59:26
It was an evolutionary jump for for the industry.
59:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good answer.
59:32
Yeah. Well, chef, where can people
59:33
find you? You know, every Thursday night
59:36
I'm working service at okra. Sometimes more, you know, I have
59:39
an Instagram, it's Swiss Benny. I'm trying to be more more
59:43
posting on there and just kind of highlighting more what I'm
59:45
doing and what's a okra Instagram, Okra restaurant.
59:49
AU. AUCOURANT That's our passion
59:54
project. We have a lot of fun there.
59:55
Awesome food, looks great. Well, thank you, chef.
59:57
Appreciate it. Good to have you here.
59:59
Thank you. I hope you enjoyed the show.
1:00:01
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