Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #13: Innocence Lost

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#13: Innocence Lost · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:05
Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome. This is episode thirteen of The Happy
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Speaker 1: Family's podcast. My name doctor Justin Coulson, and this is
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Speaker 1: the podcast that's dedicated to making your family happier. In
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Speaker 1: today's podcast, Innocence Lost, we're talking about the public health
0:23
Speaker 1: crisis that is pornography and the way that it's affecting
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Speaker 1: our children. Now, I do need to warn you that
0:29
Speaker 1: in today's podcast, I'm going to be discussing some content
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Speaker 1: that is of a highly sensitive nature. Personally, I think
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Speaker 1: that if your children over maybe the age of nine
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Speaker 1: or ten, that they actually should hear what's being said,
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Speaker 1: but you might feel differently. So this is a warning.
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Speaker 1: Some listeners may find some of the themes, some of
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Speaker 1: the content that's discussed today offensive. In fact, I actually
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Speaker 1: hope that you do. If you don't, then that I'm concerned.
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Speaker 1: But the discretion is advised when considering whether or not
0:57
Speaker 1: you should let your children listen to this podcast. If
1:00
Speaker 1: you do, usually listen in the car and the kids
1:03
Speaker 1: are participating. Now most weeks, the Happy Family podcast has
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Speaker 1: a number of different segments where we look at a
1:08
Speaker 1: range of issues confronting parents, but today it's just one
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Speaker 1: entire podcast dedicated only to this single topic. In the
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Speaker 1: last few weeks, I attended a conference, a symposium about
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Speaker 1: pornography and the way that it harms young people. It
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Speaker 1: was Tuesday, February ninth, the activist group Collective Shout that
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Speaker 1: I'm really big fans of Collective Shout. They campaign for
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Speaker 1: a world free of sexploitation. It's a women's and children's
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Speaker 1: advocacy group, really and they do wonderful work. And they
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Speaker 1: hosted Australia's first symposium on the harm that pornography does
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Speaker 1: to children. Experts from all backgrounds agree pornography is hurting
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Speaker 1: our children. Now I'm going to spend some time sharing
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Speaker 1: the things that were reinforced at the conference that every
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Speaker 1: parent needs to know about because the reality is that
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Speaker 1: your children will see pornography. But what you'll also get
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Speaker 1: from me in this podcast, because I'm not a pornography expert,
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Speaker 1: is you'll get parenting content. In other words, I'm going
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Speaker 1: to tell you how you can deal with this as
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Speaker 1: a parent, what you can say to your children, and
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Speaker 1: how to get these difficult conversations started. So let's get
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Speaker 1: into it. During the week I went out and about
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Speaker 1: I grabbed my iPhone and my voice recorder and started
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Speaker 1: asking parents their opinions about pornography and what kids are
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Speaker 1: up to with it and how to talk to them
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Speaker 1: about it. And the results of my very small sample
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Speaker 1: conversations were quite fascinating. I wanted to know whether I'm
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Speaker 1: the only parent who's worried about this stuff.
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Speaker 2: I'm concerned about it because I think that what would
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Speaker 2: be available out there would be very disturbing and would
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Speaker 2: probably be giving boys and girls the wrong messages.
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Speaker 1: How concerning do you think it is or do you
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Speaker 1: think that it's just, you know, boys being boys and
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Speaker 1: girls being curious.
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Speaker 3: I think some of them might be boys and their
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Speaker 3: nature or the way the hormones work or their mind works.
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Speaker 3: But I think it's probably the adults around them that
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Speaker 3: being a bit I guess too easy with the material
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Speaker 3: that they're viewing, and it's around the kids in the home.
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Speaker 4: This is something I've been thinking about quite recently. I
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Speaker 4: in my role, use a lot of social media in
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Speaker 4: my job, and I looked up a very innocent hashtag
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Speaker 4: on Instagram the other day, and the hashtag, i'll say
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Speaker 4: it was hashtag autumn. And when I went into Autumn,
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Speaker 4: my mind was blown at the pictures that confronted me.
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Speaker 4: They had nothing to do with the season. It was
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Speaker 4: full on triple X rated the images that I came across,
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Speaker 4: and that's when I actually started thinking this might be
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Speaker 4: something I need to look into further.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, really concerns, especially with iPads and the technology nowadays. Well,
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Speaker 5: those like measures you can take parental likes and things,
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Speaker 5: and you have to monitor your kids the whole time.
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Speaker 1: So your children will see pornography. It's not a matter
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Speaker 1: of if, but when. Why is that? Well, pornography is everywhere.
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Speaker 1: Some analysis indicates that up to thirty percent of all
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Speaker 1: Internet traffic is pornographic. Thirty percent. Now, some will argue
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Speaker 1: that it's a lot lower, somewhere around about four percent,
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Speaker 1: but I think that somewhere between four and thirty is
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Speaker 1: still a lot of Internet traffic, and most experts would
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Speaker 1: agree it's it's on the high side there. Installing filters
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Speaker 1: is useful and you should at least consider it because
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Speaker 1: that will save your children accidentally stumbling on stuff. But
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Speaker 1: that's not enough. Kids can get around filters. There's all
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Speaker 1: sorts of ways, and apart from that, even if you
4:44
Speaker 1: go as far as to keep devices out of bedrooms,
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Speaker 1: which I think is essential. It's not going to protect
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Speaker 1: your children fully because there are things called neighbors and friends,
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Speaker 1: and maybe your children's friends are okay, but they've got
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Speaker 1: a big brother or a father or an uncle law,
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Speaker 1: or somebody else in the home who's exposed them to it.
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Speaker 1: Or maybe there's just a big kid on the bus
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Speaker 1: that's got a loud mouth and a big iPad screen,
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Speaker 1: or somebody else somewhere else will expose your child to
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Speaker 1: pornography if your child's not already looking for it. I
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Speaker 1: said this at the start, and I'm going to say
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Speaker 1: it a few times. Pornography is a public health crisis.
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Speaker 1: It used to just be the wowserish and religiously conservative
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Speaker 1: voices that we're concerned about pornography, but it's no longer
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Speaker 1: an issue of morality. Pornography is genuinely changing society, and
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Speaker 1: the change isn't good. So we'll talk about that throughout
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Speaker 1: this podcast as well. But when do our children actually
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Speaker 1: come across pornography for the first time? Where do they
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Speaker 1: see it for the first time? I asked a handful
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Speaker 1: of parents at the school gate, and we'll hear them
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Speaker 1: tell us what they think.
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Speaker 6: Right after this, your conference starts in five minutes. People
5:49
Speaker 6: are inside taking their chairs. I wonder what's going to
5:52
Speaker 6: happen next. Perhaps you're worried about the guest speakers. What
5:56
Speaker 6: will they say? Will it be appropriate, relevant and up
5:59
Speaker 6: to day? Will it be evidence based? Is it going
6:02
Speaker 6: to be stimulating? You want people to come to you
6:05
Speaker 6: at the end of the day and say, Wow, thanks
6:07
Speaker 6: for organizing today. I took so much away from the conference.
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Speaker 6: Doctor Justin Coulson can help. He speaks to school kids, teachers, parents,
6:16
Speaker 6: and professionals about families and happiness because we all want
6:20
Speaker 6: happier families, happier classrooms, and happier workplaces. So what's your
6:25
Speaker 6: next conference about? To learn more about getting a speaker
6:28
Speaker 6: who will help your audience learn, laugh, and leave with
6:32
Speaker 6: practical tools that will empower them to be happier, more productive,
6:36
Speaker 6: and better parents, teachers, people, and if you'd like the
6:40
Speaker 6: credit for having chosen that speaker, visit Happy Families dot
6:43
Speaker 6: com dot au for more information about booking Doctor Justin
6:47
Speaker 6: Coulson as a speaker at your next conference.
6:50
Speaker 1: Just before the break, I mentioned that I spoke to
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Speaker 1: some parents about when they think that their children stumble
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Speaker 1: across pornography for the first time at what age. Well,
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Speaker 1: find out what those parents thought, I asked them while
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Speaker 1: I was down at the local school earlier this week.
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Speaker 2: Oh, I'd love to think about eighteen, but I'm probably
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Speaker 2: thinking maybe twelve.
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Speaker 4: I do think I read recently that boys as young
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Speaker 4: as fourteen might be seeing it, perhaps they've got older siblings,
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Speaker 4: or that perhaps they're finding it when they're using computer techtonology.
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Speaker 3: My child's four, so I'm glad I haven't had to
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Speaker 3: do that yet. But I guess it's listening to their
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Speaker 3: prompts and cues and when they're asking questions, maybe not
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Speaker 3: being afraid to get into it.
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Speaker 1: Then what happens if they never ask you the question,
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Speaker 1: Then you just got to pick that time and do it.
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Speaker 1: One parent told me about her seven year old He
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Speaker 1: was exposed to pornography in the school classroom. He was
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Speaker 1: exposed because one of his friends in the school classroom
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Speaker 1: at the age of seven, who had three older brothers.
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Speaker 1: I might add, this friend said, my brothers told me
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Speaker 1: to look up bottom and bum and the school filters
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Speaker 1: don't stop you from looking it up. Look And so
8:01
Speaker 1: these kids looked up bottom and balm, and what they
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Speaker 1: discovered was a lot more than just bottoms and bums.
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Speaker 1: Now that was quite curious for him, and they all
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Speaker 1: snickered and giggled. But then this little boy said, my
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Speaker 1: big brother said you should go home and look up
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Speaker 1: naked ladies. You can't see it at school, but you
8:16
Speaker 1: know when you go home, you'll be able to see it.
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Speaker 1: So this little boy went home and he said to
8:20
Speaker 1: his mum, I just want to go up to my bedroom.
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Speaker 1: I want to have some quiet time and do some
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Speaker 1: stuff on the computer. I'll come down for afternoon too shortly.
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Speaker 1: And Mum straight away thought, I know what he's going
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Speaker 1: to do. He's going to go up and he's going
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Speaker 1: to play Minecraft. He's going to sit in his room
8:32
Speaker 1: and instead of having afternoon team and doing homework, he's
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Speaker 1: going to play Minecraft. I'll let him go and I'll
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Speaker 1: sneak up in a minute and i'll catch him out
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Speaker 1: and I'll get him in strife. So she walked up
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Speaker 1: the stairs and walked into the bedroom and caught him out.
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Speaker 1: But he was not playing Minecraft. He was looking up
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Speaker 1: naked ladies. He'd misspelled it. But even with that misspelling,
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Speaker 1: she said, what he got was a whirlwind of pornographic exposure. Now,
8:56
Speaker 1: she talked to him and found out that not only
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Speaker 1: was this particular boy coming to school and telling everyone
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Speaker 1: what to look up based on what the big brothers
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Speaker 1: had said, but that these seven year olds were routinely
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Speaker 1: being told by a couple of the boys in the
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Speaker 1: classroom that were looking at it every day what they
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Speaker 1: were seeing. And she said, I feel like my little
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Speaker 1: boy's lost his innocence. Now, some parents might say that's crazy.
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Speaker 1: We're talking about seven year olds and eight year olds.
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Speaker 1: Surely it's not really that big of a problem. Well,
9:27
Speaker 1: if your children know between ten and twelve, chances are
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Speaker 1: they have seen pornography. In fact, the research tells us
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Speaker 1: that the average age of pornography is somewhere around about
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Speaker 1: the age of eleven. That research is fairly old, and
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Speaker 1: it may well be somewhere closer to eight or nine
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Speaker 1: is the average age, certainly for little boys, and probably
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Speaker 1: not far off that for little girls as well. Now
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Speaker 1: they're seeing it, they're seeing it way too young, and
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Speaker 1: it is a tragic case of innocence lost when you
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Speaker 1: see your seven year old seeing pictures of women masturbating men,
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Speaker 1: or women masturbating themselves, or getting involved in some other
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Speaker 1: sexual practices with the vision and the video right there
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Speaker 1: in front of their seven year old eyes, seeing images
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Speaker 1: of anal sex and oral sex and a whole lot
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Speaker 1: of other stuff that you really wouldn't want to talk
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Speaker 1: about it at all. And when they see an ad
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Speaker 1: on the TV or on the side of a bus,
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Speaker 1: you see that little seven year old looking at it
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Speaker 1: differently to how they might have looked at it had
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Speaker 1: they not lost that innocence. Now, this particular mum had
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Speaker 1: some really important conversations with the son, but the thing
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Speaker 1: that upset her most was that he didn't actually want
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Speaker 1: to see it, but once he had seen it, that
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Speaker 1: curiosity inside him grew. He wanted to know even more.
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Speaker 1: And now he still wants to see it sometimes. He
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Speaker 1: is still seven, and he actually said one time to
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Speaker 1: his mom, Mum, I know I shouldn't want to see it,
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Speaker 1: but sometimes I just I just want to look at it,
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Speaker 1: and I'm curious about it, and I can't get the
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Speaker 1: things that I've seen out of my head. He can't
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Speaker 1: unsee it, he can't get that innocence back. Now. The
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Speaker 1: reality is that our children are walking around, no, we
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Speaker 1: are all walking around with porn in our pocket. It's
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Speaker 1: right there, and as I mentioned, the research says that
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Speaker 1: kids by about the age of eleven are seeing and
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Speaker 1: in fact, the best research that we've got is quite outdated.
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Speaker 1: As you can imagine, doing research with children and asking
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Speaker 1: them about their pornography viewing habits is an ethically challenging
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Speaker 1: place to research. There's not a lot of funding for it,
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Speaker 1: and apart from that, not many parents that are okay
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Speaker 1: with researchers asking they're seven and eight nine year olds
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Speaker 1: what they do with porn So we don't have a
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Speaker 1: lot of great research. The best research that I'm aware
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Speaker 1: of comes from two thousand and six, in a report
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Speaker 1: that indicated that over ninety percent of our thirteen to
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Speaker 1: sixteen year old boys have seen pornography and more than
11:52
Speaker 1: sixty percent of girls have also seen it. Now you
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Speaker 1: think about it, two thousand and six, that was before
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Speaker 1: we had smartphones and tablets, it was before we had
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Speaker 1: four G and we've had enormous technological advancement since that report.
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Speaker 1: Like I said, I think that the average age now
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Speaker 1: is probably less than ten, maybe nine. Some experts that
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Speaker 1: I've spoken to would argue that maybe it's around about
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Speaker 1: the age of eight, and while that's the average. What
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Speaker 1: that means is that there are plenty of children who
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Speaker 1: fall below the average, just as there are some who
12:20
Speaker 1: come in after the average. There are kids who are
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Speaker 1: five and six and seven who are being exposed to pornography.
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Speaker 1: We all hope that our children will be the ones
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Speaker 1: that don't see it at all, or not until they're
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Speaker 1: much older. But we're talking about a fairly young average
12:32
Speaker 1: age here. Let's think about this from their perspective for
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Speaker 1: a second. This means that they are seeing people have
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Speaker 1: sex on a screen before they've ever felt the hand
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Speaker 1: of somebody that they're interested in hold theirs. They're seeing
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Speaker 1: this imagery before they've ever felt those butterflies in their
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Speaker 1: stomach that come before you put your arm around someone
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Speaker 1: for the first time, before they've ever kissed somebody, before
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Speaker 1: they even really know what it is to feel romantic
13:03
Speaker 1: or intimate feelings for another person, before they know the
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Speaker 1: pleasure of feeling someone's skin against their own, before they
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Speaker 1: even know what's actually happening on that screen, and by
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Speaker 1: the way, it is everywhere. The UK Children's Commissioner released
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Speaker 1: to report a couple of years ago. I'll link to
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Speaker 1: it in the show notes at happy Families dot com
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Speaker 1: dot I use slash podcast slash thirteen as in the
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Speaker 1: number thirteen, and this report was called basically pawn is everywhere.
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Speaker 1: It's available for free. Like I said, I'll put it
13:32
Speaker 1: into the show notes so that you can access it.
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Speaker 1: It's a fascinating read. And what the UK Children's Commissioner
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Speaker 1: report provides more evidence of is that pornography proliferates everything online,
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Speaker 1: especially social media. It's all over Twitter, it's all over Tumblr,
13:48
Speaker 1: it's riddled throughout Instagram, which, by the way, each of
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Speaker 1: those social media sites has an advisory age of thirteen plus.
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Speaker 1: That's the thirteen plus age guideline. Kids under thirteen shouldn't
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Speaker 1: be on them. But i'll tell you what, you don't
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Speaker 1: want your thirteen year old seeing some of the stuff
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Speaker 1: that's there. Snapchat, by the way, also thirteen plus it's
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Speaker 1: renowned for explicit content. And kick Messenger seventeen plus. For
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Speaker 1: that one, by the way, is as bad, if not worse.
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Speaker 1: In fact, I think it is worse than any of
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Speaker 1: the ones I've just mentioned. And this is the thing.
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Speaker 1: All of our children are on these social media sites,
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Speaker 1: and many parents are letting them on well before the
14:23
Speaker 1: age of thirteen, and they will be exposed to it.
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Speaker 1: It happens through innocent searches, through hashtags or other search operations.
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Speaker 1: You'll find content that's completely unrelated to what you're looking
14:35
Speaker 1: for and totally unexpected. One example, I was looking for
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Speaker 1: a tree recently. I was looking for a nice scene
14:41
Speaker 1: for a blog that I was putting together. I just
14:43
Speaker 1: wanted to find a tree. Instagram was my first option.
14:46
Speaker 1: I typed in tree and this Instagram social media app,
14:51
Speaker 1: which is the number one choice of app for most
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Speaker 1: of our kids, may actually be one of the worst
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Speaker 1: places that you can go because people who are producing
14:58
Speaker 1: pornography are using all of these innocent hashtags, so people
15:01
Speaker 1: will accidentally stumble on what they find. Because when they
15:04
Speaker 1: accidentally stumble on it, their curiosity is peaked, and off
15:08
Speaker 1: it goes. I think that Instagram and social media generally
15:11
Speaker 1: may be one of the worst places you can let
15:13
Speaker 1: your children play if keeping them safe from pornography is
15:16
Speaker 1: important to you. So porn is in our pockets, and
15:20
Speaker 1: it's in the pockets of our children, and it's in
15:22
Speaker 1: their friend's pockets and everyone else that they come in
15:24
Speaker 1: contact with who owns a smartphone or any other kind
15:27
Speaker 1: of Internet enabled device. So with all of that as background,
15:30
Speaker 1: next we're going to find out what parents said when
15:32
Speaker 1: I asked them how old their children should be before
15:36
Speaker 1: they talk about pornography.
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16:20
Speaker 1: Welcome back. I'm doctor Justin Coulson and this is the
16:23
Speaker 1: Happy Family's podcast Today Innocence Loss. We're talking pornography. We
16:29
Speaker 1: now know that pornography is everywhere. We also know that
16:33
Speaker 1: our children, especially unfortunately our boys, are being exposed to
16:37
Speaker 1: it at younger and younger ages. Nobody wants to talk
16:40
Speaker 1: porn with a seven year old. So I visited a
16:43
Speaker 1: school near my home and I ask parents, how old
16:46
Speaker 1: should you be before you have the porn talk with
16:48
Speaker 1: your children. Here's what parents said.
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Speaker 7: I think it needs to be really early that you
16:53
Speaker 7: talk to them. We talked to our four year old
16:55
Speaker 7: about pornography.
16:57
Speaker 1: How do you talk to a four year old about porn?
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Speaker 7: We say that it's pornographies people with little or no
17:04
Speaker 7: clothes on, and that's private and we shouldn't be seeing it.
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Speaker 1: Are you worried about your kids seeing it?
17:13
Speaker 7: Yes, and we basically say that you know they will
17:16
Speaker 7: see it, and that's if they do see it, it's
17:19
Speaker 7: normal to be curious, but they need to tend it
17:21
Speaker 7: off and come and tell us about it.
17:24
Speaker 4: I think that they need to be at an age
17:27
Speaker 4: where they probably already have an idea about the birds
17:31
Speaker 4: and the bees, first of all, so that they have
17:33
Speaker 4: some context. But unfortunately, because it's there online, as soon
17:38
Speaker 4: as they're starting to use different types of services that
17:45
Speaker 4: you can find online, you know, if they're using the
17:47
Speaker 4: Internet or if they're using iPads or anything like that,
17:51
Speaker 4: you need to be very very protective of what they
17:53
Speaker 4: might find. And yeah, you need to be aware of
17:56
Speaker 4: what might be there. So I've got a ten year
17:59
Speaker 4: old daughter, and sooner or later, I think I'm going
18:01
Speaker 4: to have to have a talk with her. I have
18:03
Speaker 4: read recently that kids of her age, maybe around eleven
18:07
Speaker 4: already might be getting exposed to it due to their
18:11
Speaker 4: older brothers or sisters. I certainly wouldn't like her to
18:13
Speaker 4: see any of it. I think it would be something
18:18
Speaker 4: that I would have to just gradually talk to her about,
18:21
Speaker 4: maybe when she starts asking some questions.
18:23
Speaker 1: What if she never asks the questions, So she's been exposed,
18:26
Speaker 1: but you don't know because she sees it at school
18:28
Speaker 1: or on the bus, or you know, at a sleepover
18:31
Speaker 1: with some friends, or she sees it somewhere and she
18:35
Speaker 1: just goes, oh, but she never actually asks you the questions.
18:39
Speaker 1: How do you know when to talk to them about it.
18:41
Speaker 4: That's a really good question. That's something I actually haven't
18:44
Speaker 4: thought about yet. Maybe I need to give that some
18:46
Speaker 4: more thought.
18:47
Speaker 5: I believe ten years it's the help timam age to
18:50
Speaker 5: start talking about pornography.
18:53
Speaker 2: I think that once kids are using the internet and
18:57
Speaker 2: are able to access anything on the Internet, they should
18:59
Speaker 2: be that there are some things on there that are sensitive,
19:03
Speaker 2: and they probably don't need to know the full extent
19:05
Speaker 2: of the sort of pornography that is available on the Internet,
19:07
Speaker 2: but just to be aware that there are things on
19:10
Speaker 2: it that they shouldn't be looking at.
19:12
Speaker 1: Today, there is no doubt that pornography is the number
19:15
Speaker 1: one sex educator of our children. And here are a
19:18
Speaker 1: few things that it teaches. I'm going to go through
19:19
Speaker 1: these fairly quickly. You won't like what you hear. First
19:22
Speaker 1: of all, pornography teaches that harder and rougher is what
19:26
Speaker 1: sex is all about. If you saw pornography prior to
19:28
Speaker 1: the mid nineteen nineties, you probably think of Playboy magazines
19:31
Speaker 1: with fairly run of the mill sex between two seemingly
19:34
Speaker 1: consenting heterosexual partners. But the nature of contemporary mainstream pornography
19:39
Speaker 1: is not what it was when many of us now
19:43
Speaker 1: as parents might have been exposed to it twenty thirty
19:47
Speaker 1: forty years ago. Today's pornography models unsafe sex practices that
19:53
Speaker 1: are designed to maximize excitement for the predominantly young male
19:57
Speaker 1: viewers who are looking at it, and as they become
20:00
Speaker 1: I'm accustomed to and tolerant of what they're seeing, they
20:03
Speaker 1: seek out more and more extreme materials so that they
20:06
Speaker 1: can get the stimulation that they're looking for. Pornographers push
20:09
Speaker 1: boundaries to make pornography sex in pornography specifically as hard
20:14
Speaker 1: and as rough as they can, because the run of
20:17
Speaker 1: the mill stuff doesn't excite people who have been viewing
20:20
Speaker 1: it for a little while. They want more. So here's
20:23
Speaker 1: the second problem with pornography. Here's the second thing pornography
20:26
Speaker 1: is teaching our children male dominance and violence against women. Now,
20:30
Speaker 1: I know that sounds a bit extreme, but hear me out.
20:32
Speaker 1: This is what researchers have discovered. Contemporary mainstream pornography today
20:38
Speaker 1: has become increasingly degrading and dehumanizing, particularly towards women. Australian
20:45
Speaker 1: documentary maker and researcher Marie Krabb reported that in top
20:50
Speaker 1: selling pornographic films, close to ninety percent of scenes contain
20:56
Speaker 1: physically aggressive sex acts of violence. Ninety four percent of
21:03
Speaker 1: those scenes show that physical aggression and violence directly and
21:08
Speaker 1: explicitly targeted at women, and in ninety five percent of
21:13
Speaker 1: those cases, the women are acting as though they're actually
21:15
Speaker 1: enjoying being gagged until they vomit because of the deep
21:18
Speaker 1: throat oral sex that she's performing. So women are routinely hit,
21:23
Speaker 1: they're routinely slapped, they're routinely choked, and according to Marie's research,
21:27
Speaker 1: a new trend is emerging. She says that in movies
21:30
Speaker 1: that are coming out lately, over forty percent that's four zero,
21:34
Speaker 1: over forty percent of movies include what is known as
21:37
Speaker 1: ATM that is anus to mouth. This occurs. I'm so
21:41
Speaker 1: sorry to put this into your mind. When a male
21:43
Speaker 1: concludes his anal intercourse and without washing his penis, he
21:48
Speaker 1: receives immediate oral sex. Now all of these acts, I'm sorry.
21:52
Speaker 1: There's no other word for it. This is dehumanizing, this
21:54
Speaker 1: is degrading, this is debasing. This is a male who dominates,
22:00
Speaker 1: who abuses, who degrades, who gets whatever he wants from
22:05
Speaker 1: the woman who is subservient. She's just an object. She
22:08
Speaker 1: is only there to give him what he wants. I
22:11
Speaker 1: don't want my kids learning that, and I'm sure you
22:14
Speaker 1: don't want that either. That's not what intimacy is about. Okay.
22:19
Speaker 1: The next thing that they're learning is, well, they're learning
22:23
Speaker 1: to copy what they see. Children are learning that aggressive,
22:25
Speaker 1: penetrated violence, sex is the norm. They're seeing ejaculation on
22:28
Speaker 1: the face of standard sex practice. They're taught the deep
22:31
Speaker 1: throatings what oral sex is for heterosexual anal sex as
22:34
Speaker 1: portrayed is just totally normal and an enjoyable and safe
22:37
Speaker 1: alternative to vaginal sex. And while some adults may enjoy
22:42
Speaker 1: these practices, research tells us quite clearly that they're not
22:45
Speaker 1: practices that represent women's typical experiences of pleasure. In other words,
22:50
Speaker 1: if you're a woman, you typically don't enjoy this stuff.
22:53
Speaker 1: Some do. I accept that, and I understand that. And
22:56
Speaker 1: if you're an adult and you do, that's entirely your business.
22:59
Speaker 1: But the general experience of women is that this sort
23:02
Speaker 1: of stuff is not what they want and it does
23:05
Speaker 1: not arouse them. But the focus in pornography is entirely
23:10
Speaker 1: on male arousal, because pornography is made by males for
23:13
Speaker 1: males who are looking for more and more extreme ways
23:15
Speaker 1: to get their rocks off. Reports from the UK indicate
23:18
Speaker 1: that teenage girls expect to be pressured and coerced into
23:22
Speaker 1: anal sex. They know it's going to hurt, but the
23:24
Speaker 1: expectation exists. They don't like it, they don't want to
23:27
Speaker 1: do it again, but they go along to get along
23:29
Speaker 1: because they want to make their boyfriend happy, and he'll
23:32
Speaker 1: be happy when she acts like they do in the
23:33
Speaker 1: pornography that is viewed, and the extray and experience is
23:36
Speaker 1: quite similar. In the last year or so, I've seen
23:39
Speaker 1: a number of media articles that show that doctors are
23:42
Speaker 1: now reporting increasing numbers of teen girls who are needing
23:44
Speaker 1: help with anal tearing and fishes and bow problems because
23:48
Speaker 1: they wanted to please their boyfriend who'd seen pornography, seen
23:51
Speaker 1: anal sex and thought, well, this is what everyone does
23:54
Speaker 1: and I need to try it out. Copycat behavior also
23:57
Speaker 1: extends to the playground. We're seeing increasing evidence of child
24:01
Speaker 1: on child sexual assault, both at school and at home.
24:03
Speaker 1: The police are reporting that it's happening increasingly because pornography
24:08
Speaker 1: is proliferating. Okay, here's the fourth thing that our kids
24:11
Speaker 1: are learning. Sex is a performance. Pornography has taught kids
24:14
Speaker 1: that sex isn't about intimacy, it's not about relationship building,
24:17
Speaker 1: it's not about touching the other person or feeling close
24:19
Speaker 1: to them. It's about performance. And because technology is now everywhere,
24:23
Speaker 1: a lot of teens are producing their own pornography. There's
24:25
Speaker 1: obviously significant legal risks that go along with that, but
24:27
Speaker 1: there's also the risk of significant embarrassment and humiliation when
24:32
Speaker 1: that guy decides that he's going to share it with
24:33
Speaker 1: his friend, or he's going to upload it to you
24:35
Speaker 1: porn or some other website, and he's going to share
24:38
Speaker 1: it with everybody so they can see how good he
24:40
Speaker 1: is in bed. The next thing that I want to
24:43
Speaker 1: mention just quickly is that there are other health risks,
24:45
Speaker 1: and I've made a couple of notes here. We've got
24:47
Speaker 1: other scientifically supported health risks of teens and children viewing
24:50
Speaker 1: pornography include body image issues because normal people don't have
24:54
Speaker 1: penises or vaginas or breasts that look like that or
24:57
Speaker 1: act like that. There's sexual health issues. Condoms are not
25:01
Speaker 1: used in pornography atm A. It's to mouth is obviously unhealthy.
25:06
Speaker 1: Multiple simultaneous penetrations of various orifices is not what we
25:12
Speaker 1: would consider normal. That is what we would typically consider
25:15
Speaker 1: a deviant health practice, and even if you are a
25:17
Speaker 1: consenting adult, it's probably not what you want your fourteen
25:20
Speaker 1: year olds to be trying. And the other major health
25:23
Speaker 1: risk here, and it's a legal one as well, is
25:25
Speaker 1: the issue of consent. Research shows that viewing pornography makes
25:30
Speaker 1: boys think that girls are just there for their pleasure,
25:32
Speaker 1: and it increases acceptance of rape ideology. Wow. So with
25:39
Speaker 1: all of that, there's one more argument that I'd like
25:40
Speaker 1: to make quickly about why we need to keep our
25:42
Speaker 1: kids and even ourselves away from pornography, and it's the
25:45
Speaker 1: humanitarian argument. Violence against women is the leading cause of illness, injury,
25:52
Speaker 1: and death in fifteen to forty five year old women
25:55
Speaker 1: in this country. And what pornography does is it eroticizes
25:59
Speaker 1: the key drivers of violence against women. It makes unequal
26:04
Speaker 1: gender relationships hot and sexy. It makes violence sexy, and
26:11
Speaker 1: it promotes this rigid sex stereotype and this rigid sex
26:17
Speaker 1: role that says that men should dominate women, and it
26:21
Speaker 1: actually enacts violence against women and tins and children when
26:25
Speaker 1: they see this pornography, they see the images, The images
26:28
Speaker 1: are memorable, they're a motive, their brains are stimulated. They
26:32
Speaker 1: believe new things about sex and intimacy, and their behaviors
26:35
Speaker 1: follow the beliefs, and the behaviors follow what they've seen.
26:39
Speaker 1: And as a result, children and teens are being harmed physically, sexually, mentally, emotionally, socially,
26:45
Speaker 1: and even digitally with their online digital reputations. Pornography is
26:49
Speaker 1: seeping into every day behaviors. There was a girl that
26:54
Speaker 1: I found out about from some friends of mine. We'll
26:57
Speaker 1: call her Crystal. She was a fourteen year old schoolgirl
27:01
Speaker 1: going to a major and prestigious school in one of
27:04
Speaker 1: our capital cities. And a boy one night started pestering
27:08
Speaker 1: Crystal for an image. He wanted to see some pawn,
27:12
Speaker 1: but not any porn. He wanted to see her. He
27:14
Speaker 1: wanted a nude. He wanted a nude selfie, and she
27:17
Speaker 1: said no, no, no, I won't send that to you.
27:20
Speaker 1: He kept snapchatting her, come on, send it to me.
27:22
Speaker 1: Come on, because boys are learning that the more they
27:24
Speaker 1: pester and the more that they hassle and harass, the
27:27
Speaker 1: more likely it is that the girl will eventually give in.
27:29
Speaker 1: We've got to teach our girls to never give in
27:32
Speaker 1: and to tell us what's going on. He continued to
27:35
Speaker 1: pester her and finally started to make threats. If you
27:39
Speaker 1: don't send me a nude, I'm going to hurt myself.
27:43
Speaker 1: And then he sent her a picture of a knife.
27:46
Speaker 1: She still refused. The next image he sent was a
27:50
Speaker 1: snapchat image of himself cutting himself and bleeding. He said,
27:54
Speaker 1: you need to send me a pick or I'm going
27:55
Speaker 1: to do it more. She refused. He sent another one
27:58
Speaker 1: where he was damaging himself quite significantly, so she relented.
28:03
Speaker 1: She took a top off and sent a picture of
28:04
Speaker 1: herself wearing a bra. He responded, I'm sorry, that's not
28:10
Speaker 1: good enough. I'm not satisfied. If you don't send me
28:13
Speaker 1: a topless photo, then I'm going to keep on cutting myself.
28:17
Speaker 1: And eventually, after receiving some more images of him hurting himself,
28:22
Speaker 1: she finally gave in. She sent an image of herself
28:25
Speaker 1: topless to him, which he personally devoured, and then he
28:29
Speaker 1: forwarded on around the school. Now, this is obviously a
28:32
Speaker 1: little boy of a fourteen thirteen year old boy with
28:34
Speaker 1: some big problems, and technology is only facilitating his access
28:41
Speaker 1: to make that problem worse, but it's also facilitating the
28:44
Speaker 1: opportunity to make this stuff happen all the time. Fourteen
28:47
Speaker 1: year old girls should not be dealing with this, and
28:50
Speaker 1: nor should younger girls, and nor in fact should any
28:53
Speaker 1: girl or boy at any age. Nobody should be harassed
28:57
Speaker 1: to do this. This is absolutely criminal behavior. As an aside,
29:01
Speaker 1: and this is important. The school was notified when Crystal
29:06
Speaker 1: broke down. She was absolutely shattered. She ended up telling
29:09
Speaker 1: another family member because she couldn't bring herself to tell
29:11
Speaker 1: her parents. That family member encouraged her to tell her parents.
29:14
Speaker 1: She eventually told her parents. Her very concerned parents contacted
29:19
Speaker 1: the school and said, something's got to be done. We
29:21
Speaker 1: really think that there needs to be some intervention here.
29:25
Speaker 1: The school's response when they found out was this, and
29:28
Speaker 1: I quote, our main priority is the reputation of the school.
29:32
Speaker 1: We're concerned that this will harm the school's reputation. Cristel's
29:37
Speaker 1: parents were flawed. They couldn't believe what they heard. They
29:40
Speaker 1: pushed the school to do something more than nothing because
29:43
Speaker 1: nothing was changing, and nothing changed for a little while.
29:47
Speaker 1: Cristal's family eventually took out an intervention in order to
29:49
Speaker 1: keep this boy away from their daughter, including at school,
29:52
Speaker 1: and the school found out obviously and contacted Cristel's parents
29:55
Speaker 1: and informed them, quote, your family is making this very
29:58
Speaker 1: difficult for us. I just thought, wow, what are we
30:02
Speaker 1: supposed to do here? So I asked some parents, what
30:06
Speaker 1: would you say to your kids? How you have this
30:08
Speaker 1: conversation warning them about nuds or warning them about pornography generally,
30:13
Speaker 1: And we're going to find out what they said next. Plus,
30:16
Speaker 1: I'm going to share my tips on how to overcome
30:19
Speaker 1: the pornography problem.
30:21
Speaker 6: Are you pulling your hair out because your child won't listen?
30:24
Speaker 6: Do you find yourself shouting at the children because you
30:27
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31:00
Speaker 1: This is the Happy Family's podcast. You're listening to doctor
31:03
Speaker 1: Justin Coulson and we're talking about innocence lost today, the
31:08
Speaker 1: problem of pornography. It's a pretty heavy issue and it
31:10
Speaker 1: can leave us feeling hopeless. So I asked some parents,
31:14
Speaker 1: what do you say to your children? How do you
31:17
Speaker 1: teach them about pornography? Most of them stumbled and stammered
31:20
Speaker 1: very few had anything to offer, but here's what they
31:22
Speaker 1: told me.
31:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'd probably say a lot of m and
31:28
Speaker 2: I probably talked to my husband and try and talk
31:30
Speaker 2: him into doing it.
31:32
Speaker 7: I don't know.
31:34
Speaker 5: Have to it, but I believe you have to talk
31:37
Speaker 5: about everything. You have to talk about that that's part
31:40
Speaker 5: of the life, that's the sex. You have to address
31:44
Speaker 5: these subjects in a way that your kids do understand
31:48
Speaker 5: that it's not the arrieta is to start looking at
31:51
Speaker 5: such websites.
31:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that I'll need to sit down and
31:55
Speaker 4: perhaps talk about, first of all, the way that some
31:58
Speaker 4: women are depicted. She's quite conservative in the way she dresses,
32:02
Speaker 4: and she's already starting to become a lot more aware
32:06
Speaker 4: that some people choose to do things differently, and we
32:11
Speaker 4: might start talking about perhaps the way that as a
32:15
Speaker 4: young woman, she views herself and the way that she'd
32:17
Speaker 4: like other.
32:18
Speaker 1: People to view her. I'm going to interrupt you for
32:22
Speaker 1: a sec. That's sort of the nitty gritty of getting
32:24
Speaker 1: into the conversation. But how do you start the conversation?
32:27
Speaker 4: I don't know. Can you tell me?
32:29
Speaker 1: So? What do we say? Parents have got to start
32:32
Speaker 1: to pre arm their children, pre arm means warn them
32:36
Speaker 1: of what's coming in advance, and we've got to do
32:38
Speaker 1: it from a young age. Conversations about sex need to
32:41
Speaker 1: be part of growing up. Conversations about pornography need to
32:44
Speaker 1: be part of that, and I think, unfortunately, we need
32:46
Speaker 1: to start talking about this in a simplified way from
32:49
Speaker 1: around about the age of eight. Needs to be developmenttally appropriate.
32:52
Speaker 1: We're not going to start explaining what anal sex is
32:54
Speaker 1: to an eight year old, but basic discussions are important.
32:57
Speaker 1: We need to teach our children to look or we
33:01
Speaker 1: need to teach them to tell someone. We need to
33:03
Speaker 1: teach them, especially as they get older, to do both
33:06
Speaker 1: of those things, and also to speak up and say, hey,
33:08
Speaker 1: you know that's not cool. We need to teach them
33:11
Speaker 1: not to laugh at it, that sexploitation is not funny.
33:14
Speaker 1: And we need to teach our teens to avoid pornography
33:18
Speaker 1: because the messages that it promotes are harmful. We need
33:21
Speaker 1: to teach them the stuff that I've shared with you today.
33:23
Speaker 1: Teach them that if what they do is based on
33:27
Speaker 1: what they see in pornography, they'll be having bad sex,
33:30
Speaker 1: they'll be seen as bad lovers, and instead we need
33:32
Speaker 1: to give them good messages about good sex. We need
33:35
Speaker 1: to give them hope that sex and intimacy can be wonderful.
33:38
Speaker 1: We need to teach them by the way important things
33:40
Speaker 1: like consent and what intimacy really means, and how to
33:45
Speaker 1: be tender and how to be thoughtful in relationships, particularly
33:49
Speaker 1: as those relationships become intimate. When we're talking with our teenagers,
33:54
Speaker 1: we need to stay calm. In fact, with all of
33:55
Speaker 1: our children about this topic, We've got to stay calm,
33:57
Speaker 1: always be calmer than them, and we should all remember
34:01
Speaker 1: that any attempt to control their thinking or behavior will
34:05
Speaker 1: typically result in them closing up and becoming defensive and
34:08
Speaker 1: maybe even ignoring us and possibly even acting in precisely
34:13
Speaker 1: the opposite way to what we've requested. If we go
34:16
Speaker 1: in with the look it's my house, it's my rules,
34:18
Speaker 1: you're not to do it well, squash dialogue will minimize
34:21
Speaker 1: trust and we'll just push the unwanted behavior underground. So
34:24
Speaker 1: I think that your conversation needs to be focused on them,
34:27
Speaker 1: and it needs to be focused on getting them to
34:30
Speaker 1: do as much talking as possible. Let me give you
34:32
Speaker 1: a couple of pointers on how we might do that.
34:34
Speaker 1: First of all, we should ask them a question like, hey,
34:36
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about one of those
34:38
Speaker 1: really awkward topics. Is that okay? Now, it's very rare
34:42
Speaker 1: for a child to say no, but if they do,
34:45
Speaker 1: respect that and then set up a time where you
34:46
Speaker 1: can talk later, then ask them how much of kids
34:51
Speaker 1: at school looking at pornography? For younger children, you might
34:53
Speaker 1: even ask them if they've ever heard of pornography and
34:56
Speaker 1: ask them what it is, But don't start by talking
34:59
Speaker 1: about them. Start by talking about other children. That way,
35:03
Speaker 1: it's not personal, it's just about others, and then slowly
35:06
Speaker 1: bring it closer. You might say are your friends looking
35:09
Speaker 1: at it? Have you ever seen it? And if they
35:11
Speaker 1: answer no, you can say thank goodness for that, and
35:14
Speaker 1: then start to chat with them about the things we've
35:16
Speaker 1: talked about why they shouldn't look at it. If they
35:18
Speaker 1: answer yes, reassure them that they're not in any trouble,
35:22
Speaker 1: and then find out what you can. Did someone show
35:24
Speaker 1: it to you? Did you find it yourself? Now, if
35:26
Speaker 1: you know that your child's been exposed to pornography or
35:31
Speaker 1: is currently viewing it, don't play games with them, because
35:35
Speaker 1: then you're just going to get them in trouble for
35:36
Speaker 1: looking at the porn and for lying to you about it. Instead,
35:39
Speaker 1: tell them what you know, tell them that you've found
35:43
Speaker 1: this and you're aware of it. Tell them you're not mad.
35:47
Speaker 1: You just need to have a conversation, because as soon
35:49
Speaker 1: as you get mad, as soon as you stop being calm,
35:51
Speaker 1: that conversation will be completely ineffective. Next, describe what's normal
35:58
Speaker 1: when it comes to the speriods of pornography. You might
36:01
Speaker 1: want to say something to them, like, when we see
36:04
Speaker 1: stuff that is pleasurable, and pornography is for a lot
36:08
Speaker 1: of people, our brain releases these chemicals, these feel good
36:11
Speaker 1: chemicals called dopamine and this chemicals associated with addiction, and
36:16
Speaker 1: it's the sort of chemical it feels so nice that
36:18
Speaker 1: we keep going back to get more of whatever gave
36:20
Speaker 1: us that feeling because we like how the chemical feels.
36:24
Speaker 1: And so pretty soon we start wanting to look at
36:27
Speaker 1: pornography more and more because it feels so good because
36:30
Speaker 1: of this chemical in our brain. But unfortunately, that little
36:34
Speaker 1: bit that god us excited the first time isn't quite enough,
36:36
Speaker 1: and we've got to look for more and more of it,
36:37
Speaker 1: and then we've got to look for more and more
36:40
Speaker 1: extreme versions of it to give us that same good feeling.
36:43
Speaker 1: You might ask them how they've felt after they've seen it.
36:46
Speaker 1: They might have felt really excited while they were looking
36:48
Speaker 1: at it, but maybe they felt a little bit dirty,
36:51
Speaker 1: a bit icky afterwards. Focus on that feeling and help
36:56
Speaker 1: them to understand why. Maybe ask them if they've seen
36:59
Speaker 1: any of their friends addicted to pornography and what it's
37:01
Speaker 1: done to them and their relationships and the way they
37:03
Speaker 1: view others, and then discourage them from viewing it. Now,
37:07
Speaker 1: there's so many other things that we could talk about,
37:09
Speaker 1: you know what, There's one more thing I should mention.
37:11
Speaker 1: Once you've had that conversation, it's important that you find
37:13
Speaker 1: out how they feel about what you've said. That it's
37:15
Speaker 1: a two way discussion. Otherwise it does turn into a lecture,
37:19
Speaker 1: and that's the last thing we want because they will
37:21
Speaker 1: switch off and they'll not internalize it. You might also
37:26
Speaker 1: problem solve how can I keep you safe? What can
37:28
Speaker 1: we do? You might talk about things like installing filters,
37:31
Speaker 1: installing keystroke monitoring software, keeping devices out of bedrooms, and
37:35
Speaker 1: whatever other strategies suit your family. I'm not advocating or
37:38
Speaker 1: saying you shouldn't do any of those, but they are
37:41
Speaker 1: alternatives that some parents use. Just let them know as
37:44
Speaker 1: well that if they ever have any questions, you're always there.
37:49
Speaker 1: Let them know that it's okay to be curious, but
37:52
Speaker 1: to stay away from their stuff, and then just expand
37:55
Speaker 1: on the conversation based on their responsiveness and their maturity
37:59
Speaker 1: and their interest in the topic. Now there's a whole
38:01
Speaker 1: lot of other things we can talk to them about.
38:03
Speaker 1: We can talk to them about nuds, we can talk
38:05
Speaker 1: to them about consent, we can talk to them about
38:07
Speaker 1: the legal issues of having pornography when you're under the
38:09
Speaker 1: age of eighteen, especially images of other under eighteens. You
38:13
Speaker 1: can talk to them about respect and safety and pleasure
38:17
Speaker 1: and enjoyment and intimacy and all those things. They all
38:20
Speaker 1: need to be part of an ongoing conversation. So conversations
38:24
Speaker 1: around healthy sexuality will actually set your teenager up for
38:28
Speaker 1: more positive relationships and better relationship satisfaction and higher levels
38:32
Speaker 1: of well being. And giving them a positive view of
38:34
Speaker 1: what sex should be about and turning them away from
38:36
Speaker 1: porn will help them. Just know, they will seek information online,
38:41
Speaker 1: but they might get the wrong information. So when they're curious,
38:44
Speaker 1: make sure they get to come to you. Keep the
38:45
Speaker 1: talk positive sex is wonderful. They should know that, but
38:48
Speaker 1: it needs to be something to look forward to with
38:52
Speaker 1: the right person in the right place at the right time.
38:56
Speaker 1: Porn in your pocket is the problem, and that's not sex.
39:00
Speaker 1: All right, I think that's enough. Let's wrap this up.
39:02
Speaker 1: Hopefully you're feeling like you can get through this. Hopefully
39:04
Speaker 1: there's enough strategies that I've shared with you too help
39:07
Speaker 1: you feel a little bit optimistic after such a heavy topic.
39:11
Speaker 1: After the break, a quick summary and some final info
39:13
Speaker 1: to finish up today's podcast, plus today's big question that
39:17
Speaker 1: I want to ask of you.
39:18
Speaker 8: Parenting is the most important thing we will ever do,
39:21
Speaker 8: so it's important that we get it right. But with
39:24
Speaker 8: so much pressure, demands, and advice, it's hard to know
39:27
Speaker 8: what our children really need. Using the very best scientific
39:30
Speaker 8: research and then turning it into an easy to read
39:33
Speaker 8: book and CD, What your Child Needs from You helps
39:36
Speaker 8: you connect with, understand, and teach your children in meaningful ways.
39:40
Speaker 8: What your Child Needs from You by Doctor Justin Coulson
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Speaker 8: is the parenting book that offers the solutions to make
39:46
Speaker 8: you a better parent and help your family to be happier.
39:49
Speaker 8: Available in paperback or CD at Happy Families Dot com
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Speaker 8: dot AU.
39:53
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. I'm doctor Justin Coulson, and
39:57
Speaker 1: in my podcast every week I ask a question for
39:59
Speaker 1: you to consider. This week, I want to know has
40:03
Speaker 1: this podcast changed your mind in regards to talking to
40:08
Speaker 1: your child about pornography? And if your child's old enough
40:11
Speaker 1: to chat with I'd like to know how it went.
40:13
Speaker 1: Did you have the chat?
40:14
Speaker 7: Now?
40:14
Speaker 1: Don't don't share anything incriminating, don't share anything too personal,
40:18
Speaker 1: but just share how it went, what you learned. Hopefully,
40:21
Speaker 1: if you share at the Happy Family's website happy families
40:25
Speaker 1: dot com dot I use slash podcast slash thirteen as
40:27
Speaker 1: in the number thirteen, hopefully you can inspire other parents
40:30
Speaker 1: who are really struggling with this. Maybe you can give
40:33
Speaker 1: them some ideas that have worked for you. Okay, well
40:37
Speaker 1: that's it for this week. We've talked about innocence lost.
40:41
Speaker 1: I know it's been a heavy topic, but hopefully you've
40:42
Speaker 1: enjoyed listening to the podcast and hopefully your family will
40:46
Speaker 1: be happier and healthier because of it. I want to
40:48
Speaker 1: let you know that my new book, twenty one Days
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Speaker 1: If you haven't grabbed a copy yet, make sure you
41:01
Speaker 1: take a look. It's well worth it. There's loads of
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Speaker 1: tips for making your family happier and even for setting
41:05
Speaker 1: limits around stuff like pornography. A couple of pages devoted
41:08
Speaker 1: to that very topic, as well as that. I'm offering
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Speaker 1: a special price for listeners of the podcast and for
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Speaker 1: my newsletter subscribers only. If you purchase the twenty one
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41:41
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41:45
Speaker 1: If you've enjoyed the episode, by the way, you'll find
41:47
Speaker 1: the outline and the resource links in the show notes
41:50
Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot I use slash podcast
41:53
Speaker 1: slash thirteen as in the number thirteen. And if you
41:57
Speaker 1: think that this podcast can make a difference not just
41:59
Speaker 1: for your family, but for other people's families as well,
42:01
Speaker 1: please share it via the social media links at that
42:03
Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast page. Okay, lastly, if you can, I'd
42:08
Speaker 1: be thrilled if you'd rate the podcast on iTunes. If
42:11
Speaker 1: you're still listening right now, it's your ratings that actually
42:14
Speaker 1: determine how likely it is that other people will discover
42:16
Speaker 1: the podcast, and the ratings boost the podcast's visibility. It
42:20
Speaker 1: helps other people to find out how they can have
42:21
Speaker 1: a happier family. So while you're there, subscribe on iTunes
42:24
Speaker 1: as well. Let other people know that you love the podcast.
42:27
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. Got another podcast for you in
42:29
Speaker 1: a fortnight, and until then, remember you don't have to
42:32
Speaker 1: be the best parent in the world. You just have
42:35
Speaker 1: to be the best parent in their world.