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Author & Psychiatrist- Justin C. Key · Caught on the Mike...

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: September 19, 2023, and I have the pleasure of having Justin on the podcast today to talk about horror.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: We talked about some of our favorite authors.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Spoiler alert, it's Stephen Code, and we just talk about the process of being creative in general.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mic.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: If you know anything about me, you know how much of a fan of horror I am.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: You know I like the scary stuff, the spooky stuff, the thrilling stuff.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: And joining me today is an author, Justin C.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Key.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: He's got a book coming out on September 19th.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: The World Wasn't Ready for You.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: It is a collection of stories.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Justin, how are you doing today, man?
1:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad to be here.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh excited to be in this space, you know.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, this is kind of my dream as a writer to have people read my work and then, you know, want to talk to me about what I've written.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm very excited to be here.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: So, how long have you been writing?
1:58
SPEAKER_01: Have you been writing your whole life?
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: I've been writing since I was a kid.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: I remember um I wrote the butter, the butterfly chronicles when I was in like maybe third grade and illustrated it um and wrote some short stories when I was in high school.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: But seriously, serious writing has been about 16 years.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh oh, wow.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 2007 is when I sat down to start seriously writing.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, and luckily I read Stephen King's own writing where he said the first million words of practice.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: So um I I started getting my practice in, and I've done well over a million words now, but it's been quite a journey.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: You've got a few other things that are coming out in compilations that we'll talk about uh later in the episode.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: But I think right now, before we get into any deeper waters, the appropriate thing would be for you to introduce yourself and tell us your origin story, sir.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: So I am Justin C.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Key.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: And uh so I grew up in Washington, D.C.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: And uh important thing is that my mom was a librarian at the Library of Congress.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: So I got all the books that that I could want.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was constantly asking her to bring home books, didn't know that some of them were a little bit above my uh age range.
3:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, I read Jurassic Park uh when I was like in maybe like second grade or so, um uh and just would devour books, devour stories.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: My mom would tell people that I would pull out a book and sit in the middle of the soccer field.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I actually did that.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember sitting in the middle of the soccer field, maybe on the sideline if I wasn't in the game.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: I would be reading.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, but always loved reading.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: At the same time, you know, thought that I wanted to be a doctor when I was a kid.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh and no one else in my family was a doctor.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: My family was very supportive and encouraging, not in like the toxic way, but they would call me, you know, Dr.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Key, even when I was young, because they knew I wanted to be a doctor and very supportive of that.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: So grew up, um, went to college out on the West Coast.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: That was the first time going away from DC.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: I went to Stanford.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and while I was there, I started to think, okay, I've only ever wanted to be a doctor.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, what if I step back and see if there's something else for me?
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I started getting more into creative writing while I was there.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: I had already finished a lot of like the human biology major.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: So I kind of did um an English double major, like unofficially, just like took the classes that I liked taking.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I remember the summer of 2007 when the last uh Harry Potter book came out.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh, me and a friend, we read it just in the same room in like a weekend, like started Saturday, ended Sunday.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: And then after that, I sat down and started writing myself.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh, well, my first novel, um, which is sitting on my shelf over here, probably never see the light of day.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: Um but I started writing, I started writing every day.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and eventually I had about a hundred pages.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking then, I was like, well, I have to finish now.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's been a lot of my writing career.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, I can't stop now.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've put so much time into it, you know, I've uh gotten so far with this.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, what's the next thing?
5:20
SPEAKER_01: What can I create?
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was very thankful to uh have read Stephen King's on writing when I started writing back in 2007.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm a big Stephen King fan.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: And in it, he said a few things, for better, for worse.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: He said you should write every day.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: He said he had a story in there about where he told like an interviewer that he doesn't write on holidays like Christmas, but he said that's a lie.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: He just he does write on Christmas.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: He just thought it would be boring to say he wrote every day, but without any break.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, he is a pantser, which means that you know he doesn't outline uh and the first million words of practice.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: So his seventh novel that he wrote was the first one that he published, Carrie.
6:03
SPEAKER_01: So I remember sitting down to write, and I and I tell people this today, like when I give advice to like younger writers, I had to simultaneously think that what I was writing in that moment could be the next big thing, you know, while I'm writing it, but also knowing that this may just be practice, you know, that once I finish this, put it aside, start the next thing.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I continue forward after that.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: And I did after I finished that novel, I put it aside.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: I immediately started on the next one, and then I came back to that first one.
6:37
SPEAKER_01: I had uh I went back over it, I revised it, I had people read it, and then I did that for a few years with novels.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, I submitted to agents, uh, went that whole route of like querying to agents, which um I tell people was ultimately a learning experience.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, got like some requests for like a full read.
6:57
SPEAKER_01: Like back then for me, I would like send out queries to like 50 people, and it's just you know, it's like cold calling.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: So some of them you never hear back from.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: I think somebody responded to me like three years later when I was in a completely different space, and it was like they were passing on.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, thanks.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then some people say, This sounds interesting.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: Can I reread some?
7:18
SPEAKER_01: And then uh a bunch of those people were rejected, and then somebody, maybe one or two, said, Can I read the whole thing?
7:27
SPEAKER_01: And then ultimately, you know, um, some people were very nice, or some people said this has a lot of potential, but just not ultimately what not what they were going to represent.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: So then I went to med school.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I had taken some time after graduating um to go and I did uh I worked at um entry level, like a nonprofit um, no, a consulting firm for nonprofits in San Francisco, um, trying to see like if I could just not do medicine uh and just try writing.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was drawn back to medicine and did some shadowing.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: So applied to med school, got into med school, uh, and throughout the whole time continued to write, but took a break from the novels and started focusing more on short stories.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, I also started, me and my wife and I started having children in med school.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: So it was a very, very busy time.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so taking a step back and doing short stories was a way for me to have something that was like my manageable.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I could have like a 3,000 or 5,000 word short story.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: I also could submit them directly to magazines and also play around with a lot of different ideas.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and while my first love was horror, as I was naturally going through medical school, I started to incorporate it more like science, the things that I was learning into my story.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of morphed to I do both horror and and um and just medical fiction, if you may.
8:54
SPEAKER_01: Um went through med school, became a psychiatrist.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's very interesting because a lot of writers that I know, writing is like their passion, and then they have like their day job that you know pays the bill.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: Um and early on, someone said that it's gonna be hard to have writing plus a career that you're passionate about, or put like a lot of like mind energy into.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's what medicine became for me, you know, going into psychiatry.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: So I'm a psychiatrist, I have my own practice, I do a lot of therapy.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I I think I'm fairly good at what I do, just naturally in terms of being a therapist.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it takes a lot, you know, it takes a lot emotionally, it takes a lot logic logistically, you know, um being a doctor and kind of like having that uh having that responsibility.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: And on top, uh in addition to that, not even on top one, just like separate from that, um, writing is like a lifelong passion of mine.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: So um, so I'm very thankful, very fortunate to be able to have like these two career paths that I'm both that both of them I'm very passionate about.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it takes a lot out of me though.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm sure it does.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Before we go on too much further, there's something that kind of caught my attention.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: And as being a creative myself, this is the vantage point I'm asking this from.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: Having a career path in behavioral sciences and being a creative yourself.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Is there any specific methodology that you use to disconnect your ego from the creative works that don't move forward versus the ones that do?
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Because I love the fact that you mentioned that you almost become obsessive about completing something once you start it.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: So many people don't do that.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: That's where a lot of creatives stall, right?
10:55
SPEAKER_00: But like I know for me as a former songwriter, I've got bins and bins and bins of everything that I think is the Beatles' greatest hits, but probably aren't.
11:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you disengage your mindset in that regard?
11:13
SPEAKER_01: Part of it, I think, has to do with time, um going through.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Like if I were look back at the first novel that I wrote now, even years ago, if I look back at it like seven years ago, I read it.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: I was like, Oh, I'm glad this this didn't get out into the world, you know.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: Um just uh I I still you can still uh you can still see remnants of it in my writing, but um, and I think it was from reading Stephen King, and then I kind of went overboard.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: I loved metaphors and analogy, like everything was like a metaphor, everything was an analogy.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: I think I have a line in that I remember, and I I compared something to I said it was like um fairies playing on a banjo, and uh just like over all the years, I'm like, what was I thinking?
11:55
SPEAKER_01: Like from fairies on a banjo?
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Like who's you know, but just I was just like all this flowery stuff and all these and and through time, like what I've done is like whittle that down.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: But I do think I will say that at a time I thought it was a fault, but I but I think now that it's an advantage, I do sometimes stubbornly go back and won't let like a story die.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, I still have in my mind, like that first book that I wrote, like later down in my career, when I'm in like a place, not sending that version out, but going back and just redoing the whole thing, you know, um, because there's other novels I had back then, back then as well.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Um and I've I've gotten like good results, I think, from that as well.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: Like looking back, like one of the stories that's in my um collection is coming out.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: I wrote it one weekend, I was taking a writing weekend, I think maybe in 2014, like you know, so nine, 10 years ago.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I had submitted it to different magazines and got nice rejections and even submitted it to an anthology that I thought was like perfect for.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and when I once I got my representation for potentially going out and doing a short story collection, I sent it, I sent it to my agent, not thinking it was going to make the cut, but you know, he loved it.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: And since then, a lot of people have resonated a lot with that, you know, and it's kind of been a surprise to me.
13:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, I was like, oh, that's kind of the story that that that that I thought that was, you know, not up to par.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, so part of me is part of me still has a thought of like wanting to go back and do some of those um or bring some of those stories back to life.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: I definitely have some stories like over the years, especially since there are some when writing them where I where I felt like, oh, this is, you know, this is kind of this is very special to me.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: Um and since then I've written more like very special stories, but that feeling still exists kind of when I go back and think about them.
14:09
SPEAKER_01: And I guess maybe there's a line of my career where stories that were written past a certain point, I probably have like some confidence that, you know, the writing was like good enough at a certain at a point that they might be worth going back to.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: Whereas my first novel, you know, even if somebody was like, hey, I want to see it, I you know, I it would I would probably need to go in a room for like six months before I would let anybody see that.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: You almost answered that like a psychic because that's exactly where I was going with it.
14:41
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, I know that once you become emotionally invested in a creative work, there's always the hope of repurposing that idea at some point later down the line.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: Because it did, you know, people connect with things that you genuinely put your emotion and genuinely put your heart into.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: That's transparent as day, you know.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, otherwise, we're all doomed because of AI.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah, and that's a whole other thing.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I am maybe naively, but I just I I just think I think in I think in a few spaces, well, in a lot of spaces, I think AI can really, you know, put people out of work.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: I am naively hopeful that, you know, when it comes to writing, you know, like prose, um voice acting, you know, it's just that humanity just isn't there.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think that part of writing is like really thinking like there are words on a page.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: It was written by somebody else, but that person is like, there's words on a page that uh your your brain is taking in and making a story out based on what you have inside your own experience, right?
16:01
SPEAKER_01: And that could exist with AI written words still, like your brain would still do that, but then the intersection of knowing that these words came from another experience entirely, like a human experience.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: Um I think that that's where the power comes from.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, my hope is that no matter how good AI gets, that it's still, you know, unless it becomes self-aware, it was a whole nother thing.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh um, you know, if it if it crosses a singularity, and then we have a, then it becomes a whole other issue.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think that it's still like lacking that humanity is, you know, I think that one day, I don't know, this would still not be ideal, but one day, like, you know, people may be seeking out like the actual like human created things, you know, versus, you know, just the the same old um AI fluff.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: But I don't know, I could be naive about that.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm optimistic.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: I I sincerely believe that trust in the human spirit and the fact that AI will not be able to replicate emotional intelligence ultimately.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's where the connectivity happens for sure.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: I have hope for all actors and writers and any creative out there.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's been some pretty amazing musical things done with AI recently that I'm like, oh my goodness.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: But I digress.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about The World Wasn't Ready For You specifically.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: That's dropping on September 19th.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: What can you tell us all about that?
17:36
SPEAKER_01: So The World Wasn't Ready for You is a collection of eight short stories.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, all of my short stories, uh, and it's really an exploration of the speculative fiction genre.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: So there's some horror stories in there, uh, there's some science fiction stories in there.
17:56
SPEAKER_01: There's some, I'd say like soft fantasy stories in terms of like they have, you know, they're not horror, not science fiction, but have fantastical elements.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Um and really, you know, my love of of writing and reading, like going back to when I was a kid, like being inspired by goosebumps, to to uh to Stephen King, like that whole trajectory.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: So I have like a story in there that's about um um uh what's it called?
18:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh a possessed house thinking of the word possession, a possessed puppet story, you know, going back to you know, Night of the Living Dummy always wanted to kind of write something along those lines.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then there's also stories that uh there's a body stor, there's a body horror story in there that's mainly from like I had read like a body horror short story a few years ago, and I was like, this is really cool, you know, just in terms of like where where this went.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: And then going back and looking at some of the you know classic movies like that, like with the fly.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's usually kind of my impetus.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: Like, how what can I do with this cool idea?
19:05
SPEAKER_01: And then as I'm filling in the other elements, and mainly like those elements being like parts of my identity.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I'm a uh black male, I grew up in DC, um, mostly, you know, black schools, black environments, and then went to medical school where for the first time I kind of felt not to anybody's not to anybody's purpose, purposeful fault, but felt, you know, the it felt the minority, felt like a a token in some ways.
19:37
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, dealing with that also as a writer and a reader, right?
19:42
SPEAKER_01: Realizing that when I was growing up, a lot of the stories that I was reading, you know, didn't really have me reflected in it.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: And the the the way I show that or I tell people is that the, you know, the novel I have here sitting on my bookshelf that I first sat down to write, you know, the main character is um, you know, blonde-haired, blue-eyed boy, you know, and that was and that was just what naturally came out of me.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I remember being in a writing group, and one of my um writing group partners, um, very well-meaning was just like halfway through the story, it was like, oh, I didn't realize this that this that the main character was black until then.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking, I was like, well, what else would they be?
20:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, just in terms of that's but and that's a lot of the things that I've I think grappled with in evolution as a writer, because I think I felt that same thing in the beginning.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, I can't make um I can't or wouldn't make the characters black unless I have something to say about it, unless it's like a black story, right?
20:45
SPEAKER_01: Because that's like something special.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Versus as I kind of just came into my own identity and as a writer, you know, that just started to be that's where I started off with.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: That's the experience I started with.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: But then also recognizing the responsibility of, you know, what am I representing?
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, am I representing this in a positive light?
21:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, not just positive, in a responsible light.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think as I went on and became a doctor and especially like a psychiatrist in mental health, like if there are people who struggle with mental health, am I being responsible about that?
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Am I aware of the things that I know and that I don't know?
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, so in a lot of the stories, you can feel that there's, I think, something profoundly said there.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: And I know that because of how people have uh interacted with the stories.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that might not be my intention with sitting down to write it.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, one of the the uh stories, Spider King, is my body horror story, and it's about um a family man who went to jail taking the rap for a friend, and then takes a Legal, but it's where he agrees to be part of like an experiment to get out of jail.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: And he thinks that is a medication for like anxiety, injection for anxiety.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: But what it makes is that his um his body starts producing like spiders.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: Spiders start to like pop out of his skin.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: And then he's slowly able to kind of control them.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: So someone read that a couple of years ago, and they wrote me and said, like, this is really made me feel heard with my anxiety because it became a metaphor for that anxiety of returning to society, you know, in terms of, you know, how it manifested when he's trying to be at work and trying to like hide this thing that he feels like marks him as like a monster.
22:46
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that really speaks to, especially like people coming from the um uh coming from being incarcerated and trying to to get back into society, even though they don't have like a big label on their forehead.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: It's still there's something about them that society still still sees, still tries to kind of stay away from and makes it a lot more difficult for them.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I think that comes through in that story.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: Um and then there's a story in there where I uh it's called Now You See Me.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: It's basically taking my medical background.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, the main character is an OBGYN resident.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then the three main characters there are um three uh white women, and they go to see an exhibit, um a black art exhibit, where it's like the um uh the the black art exhibit.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: So I was gonna say it's like the picture of Dorian Gray.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: I can't actually remember if I got the name of that right, but the the name of that story.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: But it's like the picture of Dorian Gray, and they go to the exhibit, and the effect it has is that it makes each of them slowly embody what the black experience in America is like.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: So the main character, for example, um, slowly becomes invisible, but also hyper-visible.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: So she loses some of her identity and her autonomy and her job because people aren't paying attention to her anymore, aren't respecting her anymore.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: But if she slips up or makes a mistake, everybody's everybody notices immediately.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: Like she gets the harshest punishments and things like that.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's an exaggeration of it.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's called Now You See Me, and it's just, you know, stemmed from a story.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: I remember someone gave me uh a prompt.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I was doing this like writing workshop, and it was like art that changes you.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: So I sat down with that, and then one thing leads to another.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, what can I say with this?
24:44
SPEAKER_01: But how can I be responsible about it?
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, how can I say it so that, you know, even you know, if the the man character, like a white woman reads this, they just don't come away saying, like, oh, this was offensive, or this this isn't isn't how I think, or you know, this doesn't apply to me.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Really kind of think using that nuance and really taking away like what's the bad guy, what's the good guy, right?
25:08
SPEAKER_01: And just you know, having like a um a genuine experience and having fun with it is horror.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: When I was listening to your story and your your kind of reflections on all of this, I thought of two things.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: First thing being The Body by Stephen King, which became Stand By Me, and the reason why that resonated with so many kids when they were younger, because it was a reflection of their experience.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Then I think about more recent times, how Jordan Peel has been really deliberately putting out great works about representation and how it has a metaphorical effect.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love this, sir.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, I am so excited to read your book.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm like, okay, yes, give me more.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: How does that feel to you to be able to get this out there and actually have like poignant significance behind everything?
26:11
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like you have a duality of purpose here, to where you're giving an entertaining piece of fiction and you're also giving the reader an opportunity to self-reflect to a certain degree.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, um, I really want to recreate what reading did for me.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think, you know, uh cliche-wise, it's it's definitely, I think, a vessel to to live more life than we may be able to just in our 70, however many years we have here.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, like, you know, I'm a doctor and a writer, and I know that, you know, a lot of people aren't going to be able to experience that.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: I would love to be an astronaut, you know, I would love to be a firefighter.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: I'd love to, you know, uh go visit the Titanic.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Probably will never try that, you know, but but you know, if I knew I was going to survive, I would love, but and I think that reading like genuinely gives the ability to kind of imagine yourself and experience some of these things that you'll, you know, you just may never actually be able to experience in the life that you're living.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think that was so powerful, powerful for me.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think part of that is also then coming to a greater understanding about others.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: And I think that as I've I've taken that seed of just the love of creativity, and it's become part of like a responsibility in the same way that there's like a love for medicine and narrative, and there's a responsibility when I work with uh one-on-one with a patient to try to kind of help them find themselves, try to, you know, help them be heard, et cetera, all those things.
28:01
SPEAKER_01: And I think the same thing with writing is that, okay, you know, I want to have fun with this, um, but I also want uh I want the person who comes to this, especially with horror, if I'm gonna try to make them feel something and that feeling is gonna be difficult, I want it to be worth it.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's even it's sometimes it's hard to kind of articulate exactly, you know, what that may be.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think I align a lot with um the thought that, you know, uh horror can be um can be healing.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: I don't really know how to explain it, um, but I resonate with it.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, in one of the stories that I have in here, like the the um the possessed, excuse me, puppet story, I realized uh I was writing it back in 2015, and I was writing it late late at night, and I looked up and realized it was July 23rd, and that was the anniversary of my cousin being shot and killed back in 2004.
29:03
SPEAKER_01: And I realized that like the one of the characters in the story I had named after my cousin.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I realized it was a story about, you know, dealing with what I think was like his less than ideal like childhood and upbringing, um, and trying to work that out, you know, so that I can write an ending that is a lot more healing than what actually happened uh in real life.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And writing has been, I think, a great um, a great vessel for that.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: It it's a feeling of, you know, responsibility sounds burdensome, it sounds heavy.
29:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think that it makes the work the work better.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: And I think that it also just means that, you know, I'm just doing my due diligence, you know, uh even as, for example, like a psychiatrist, you know, if I have someone in my stories who have schizophrenia, I don't assume that just because I'm a mental health professional, that like I'm just automatically going to have like a just know everything and have a perfect representation of that.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: I still like would do my do my due diligence to like look at like firsthand first hand accounts of people who have that, um, trying to see like what tropes um already exist uh in fiction or in cinema, just to and and then I love to kind of tackle those um or subvert them.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: So really just trying to have that responsibility um because also I know as a psychiatrist, though I don't feel like when I sit down, I'm sitting down as like I'm a psychiatrist who's trying fiction.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: I've been like a writer for a long time.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: But as a psychiatrist, I never would want, you know, something that I've written that may not be the most responsible to then be used as like, well, look, this is how the psychiatrist is portrayed.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's, you know, so I think that that's where like when I sit sit down and write, it's like, okay, let's have fun.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: But also make sure that since you're like touching on these issues and these issues just come on the page naturally for me.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Make sure like you're giving great thought to it.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: Make sure you're um making people think uh and not just, for lack of a better term, like increasing the harm that's out there.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like your vessel of creativity is incredibly therapeutic for you as a person outside of the realm of being a psychiatrist or an author, which leads me to my next question.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: You push all those things aside, you push aside the fact that you're an author, you push aside the fact that you're a psychiatrist.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: What fuels Justin Key's fire in life day to day?
31:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it uh my answer is gonna sound like I need a therapist myself.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: Um but there are you know, there are a few things.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: I think that um, you know, I grew up uh only child, single mom in DC.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh my mom loved on me very hard.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: And um I think part of me seeing like outcomes be different for a different people.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: And I think from a a very early, from very early on, I did not think that those differences and outcomes were because of something that I innately chose, right?
32:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, like I didn't I didn't I didn't choose to have a mother who loved on me hard.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: I didn't choose that like a lot of things in school came easy to me.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: You know, math just came really easy to me.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I remember I would recognize that like you know, it didn't come as easy to to other people.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: So I think from a from very early on going on and then being going to Stanford, right?
33:07
SPEAKER_01: And I think with that, it's like, you know, man, like I'm you know, the only the only one so far in my family who's gone this far.
33:14
SPEAKER_01: Like I need to I need to make it count, you know.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: Um my cousin is, you know, uh is uh only lit at 25 and I was 17.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: Like I I don't have any good reason for why him and not me, you know.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: So if I'm going forward, you know, I want to take full advantage of like what I've been feel like what I've been put here to do.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: So even as I go forward and I have this collection out and it's starting to get reviews, unfortunately, as is the positive reviews come out, part of my brain is like okay, can I live up to this?
33:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, can I, you know, can I like do this again?
34:05
SPEAKER_01: Can whatever it feels like I have the ball in my court to to do something special, can and not everybody's able to have that, can I do something with it?
34:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, um, and it's something that I have to kind of keep in check, right?
34:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have to tell myself that uh even if another book never comes out, like the fact that I'll be able to see this in hardcover and people read it, it's like a dream come true, right?
34:37
SPEAKER_01: I know that if this is the end of the road for me, it'll be a big disappointment.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: But I also have to recognize that like that even getting past that, it's still like a great uh it's a great accomplishment.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: So, and I think that also with that, with on the psychiatry side, um, you know, it's also there aren't too many um black therapists or black psychiatrists, you know, um, and I have patients who find me, it's like you're a unicorn, like you're like a black male psychiatrist, you know, it's so hard to find.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: And um I I know that I put a lot of thought and time, especially in helping guide people who one, um, have either never seen like a psychiatrist or a therapist, so they're naturally going to be anxious about it, or two, have had bad experiences in the past.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: Those are like my two favorite types to work with, even though it's like a big challenge.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: It can be anxiety provoking myself because I get to, and a lot of times, not always, but I get to see them become more comfortable because they feel heard, see them become more comfortable because they realize that I'm not there to just like push a specific medication.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: And they might be like, you know, I don't, I'm not sure about medication right now.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, okay, you know, well, well, I'll see you again at this time.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's like, oh, I don't need to take medication to continue seeing you.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you know, I I I think of myself as as a tool, you know, and I um to help you get to to become your best self, you know.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: And if I push something that that that you are totally not uh for or aren't ready to talk about yet, then you're not gonna come back and see me, and then I'm not gonna be able to help you, you know?
36:23
SPEAKER_01: So recognizing that too, it's like, okay, if I am this and I'm in the world, why not continue to go forward and and try to and try to do this good work?
36:35
SPEAKER_00: There's a phrase that I throw out there, and it is you are an individual, but so is everybody else.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: And everybody is one of one, right?
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh their own unique person.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, is actualizing that within yourself can be burdensome sometimes because you're carrying that around creatively speaking.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: It is that okay, can I top this last endeavor with my next one?
37:05
SPEAKER_00: And that can kind of create its own headspace that can be unhealthy sometimes because then you start to overthink and you become underproductive because you're overthinking it instead of just letting things organically flow.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: So, how do you put yourself in that right headspace to where you can just let go of what you're trying to top and just let things go organically?
37:36
SPEAKER_01: So hard to do, and I think that one of the answers is that if I only wrote when I was able to do that successful successfully, I wouldn't write enough as I would need to to meet deadlines.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: So, and now this is just kind of like the having deadlines is like a new thing to me, you know.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Like before it was there was no deadline, nobody was was waiting, but now I have like a deadline for things.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think over the years, what I have been able to do is be comfortable with no with knowing that, okay, maybe I'm not at the top of my form in this writing session, but I'm still going to get things down.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: And maybe I feel like I'm not able to write this scene right now, but I can put a bracket right there that says insert really cool scene here, and then go on to what it is that I feel like I may be able to write then.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's some of the more um mundane aspects, or maybe it's like line edits, or maybe it's something that that I don't have to feel like as geniusly creative, not that I feel that that often, um, while writing.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think being able to do that so that I can still make some progress, um, because a lot of times it's hard.
38:59
SPEAKER_01: And I've I'm writing right now.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: So with Harper Collins, I have a two-book deal, um, which is amazing, but also amazingly stressful, where they bought the short story collection and then they were also bought a novel that um I'm finishing now.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: And uh, and that one's due October 2nd.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: So this book is comes out October 19th, and then two weeks later, the this novel that I've been working on um rigorously for the last year, but really like over the last 10 years is due.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: So I'm right now, I'm in like the mode, really for the last six months, I've been in a mode of like, there's not like there's never enough time, right?
39:43
SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, and it's it's so interesting, I think, working on something that big is that I could spend like a weekend and be like, I I only did got through two chapters.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: What you know, what is going on here?
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, spend like hours and it's just like I've edited like a few pages or what have you.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and there are times I think with this and feeling like internally there's so much, it feels like there's so much at stake with it when really there isn't, but internally it is.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: There are times where I do have those those thoughts of, you know, am I good enough for this?
40:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, is this is this gonna be any good at all?
40:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, what am I doing?
40:27
SPEAKER_01: Am I going on the right path?
40:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I have to kind of fight through those because then like the the the clouds clear up or the clouds part, and then I have um, and I think I'm in that moment right now, thankfully.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: I have like where the moments where I'm like, oh, this is really cool.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, this is gonna be something uh one day, and people are gonna read it.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I really love where this is going and it's coming together.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I think that I have to remember those moments, you know, when I'm kind of in the pits of it and like, oh my goodness, this is this is such uh this is such a beast.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: How am I gonna do this or make like any leeway on it?
41:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, the two hours that I've put aside for today.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, so it's a balancing act.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: And it's incredible to hear you talk about all of this because it feels like you're in a zone right now.
41:27
SPEAKER_00: It's that anticipation of this first book dropping while also completing the follow-up full, full-length novel.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Because that can kind of that can kind of create its own headspace as well.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can only go back to my own personal experience in the same regard with music.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: There was some sort of some sense of anticipation right before an album were to drop where it's like, I don't know what's gonna happen next, but I sure do enjoy the feeling of it.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: That's you know, that's what that's what it's been like now, especially with like the short story collection.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's a lot of uncertainty, at least with me.
42:07
SPEAKER_01: I know that short story collections usually just don't do as well.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm trying to kind of, you know, just prepare myself for that.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: But I'm also getting like, you know, there's reviews that's coming coming through, and it's like, wow, you know, you know, they love me, they really love me.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I'm seeing it pop up on, you know, on Instagram from people that I don't even know who's, you know, have, you know, I think they get it from this newsletter that goes out and they specifically requested it.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, it's like a person I've never seen before, like posting a picture of like my book on their thing or talking about it or excited to read it or posting reviews is very, is very surreal.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I have to remember that even if it comes, you know, September 19th or what have you comes and it's like, yeah, the sales aren't that great, or et cetera, et cetera.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: Just have to remember that, you know, um, similar, I think, to sports, you know, uh, just with I think about, you know, not to use too much of a analogy, but think about basketball, like just the disappointment when they lose a champ, somebody loses a championship.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: And it's like you've gotten to a point that 99.99999% of the people in the world this year did not make it, you know, too.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's that duality of yeah, you know, wanting it to be more and wanting it to the best, but also recognizing that like, yeah, this is a this is an accomplishment.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh there's always gonna be, you know, something that could be more.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: You can win a championship, or were you like the finals MVP?
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh your finals MVP, but did you do it six times?
43:44
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
43:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, so it there's always going to be more.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think having that being able to be like, okay, you know, if if it doesn't sell well, yes, it'd be disappointing, but it's still like a great, cool ride.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
43:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you've got stuff.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Stories appearing in two other compilations that are coming out.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: One compilation called Mini Worlds.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: And the other one that I just saw on Instagram was out there screaming that's dropping October 3rd.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's got a foreword written by the aforementioned Jordan Peel.
44:16
SPEAKER_00: What can you tell us about?
44:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Mini Worlds.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: Um uh collective world building, um, spearheaded by uh Codwell Turnbull, um, and uh who I've worked on on a few like collaborative projects in the past um and was lucky to work on with this.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's taking the idea of having like stories that are linked, you know, in almost like similar to like the different like the cinematic universes, like having stories that have this link, right, you know, and that are bound by like similar laws, um, and bringing like a lot of different writers together and trying to have that as a jumping off point for for novels that want to take take place in this universe for short stories, etc.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: And the short story that I have in there um is it takes place on a far future world where humans or human-like creatures or species has evolved to where they mainly communicate with like telekinesis and they really have like almost like a hive mind.
45:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the people that are born there who are um who are not as so people can be born without that ability, but they effectively have our brains.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: So the way the what it is is me basically trying to tackle, you know, uh neurodivergence or something like being on the autism spectrum and fast-forward it to where it's it's like what we consider is normal now is that in this future.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: Like they're the ones with the that you know have to be put that they have to go through like the special schools, or they're the ones that, you know, their parents don't understand them or aren't able to communicate with them effectively.
46:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it's from that perspective.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: Um so it was a way for me to to to really, I think, um, tackle like society's intersection with um neurodivergence, uh, but do it in a way from like a uh an experience that I have, like in terms of like, you know, um writing from a perspective that is really like my pers my perception, what my mind would be.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: But then also showing that uh how it manifests in society is that, you know, um they're really considered to have like a disability because of society's shortcoming.
47:00
SPEAKER_01: Whereas, you know, there could be a society that um that is built that where they could thrive.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: And so kind of positing in that same way that some of the people that we may say or think are quote unquote disabled, um, society just may not be set up for them to thrive.
47:17
SPEAKER_01: So that's the mini-worlds one.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: And then so the Jordan Peel anthology, out there screaming.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh, so that's really exciting.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, I had to sign like an NDA for it.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: Like last year, they uh um uh John Joseph Adams, the editor on it, had reached out to me um and said he was doing like this very important anthology.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then I found out that it was by Jordan Peel.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I don't have time for this, but yes, of course, you know, um I do not have time at all, but yes, I will.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh and um it's funny, I was I find I found out a few days before I was on this panel um at an art museum, um, and it was about uh, you know, science fiction and I think um art or creativity, I forget the exact name of the panel, but during it, somebody in the audience asked the question.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: They were like, have you all ever seen like a new type of art in science fiction?
48:25
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that hasn't been done.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: And whether that's been done or not, you know, is debatable.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: But in the I was answering, and in the moment I I said, you know, well, uh well, think about, you know, um genetics and human genetics and being able to edit the genome.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: And what if like in the future, like it was so accessible that you know, people were about able to edit it to a degree where um they create they could create humans that are considered art, you know, and then like different um, you know, different individuals or companies or what have you are you know able to create these art pieces, but then what would it be like to actually like live your life as an art?
49:08
SPEAKER_01: So I remember joking then and saying, like, you know, I gotta leave to go write the story, but I went home and actually started writing the story.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's the story that's in the Jordan Peel anthology.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh so it's a horror story, but it's in that setting.
49:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, and the main character, uh, those stories called the Estete.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and the main character is one of these like art pieces.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, and you see like the backdrop and the implications and in society and all the things that have gone wrong.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's like a horror love story where uh he thinks that his love interest has been taken by the collector, like somebody who collects art, uh human art.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then he kind of goes through this deep, dark rabbit hole to try to get her back.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's as much as I can probably say about it, but it's uh yeah, yeah.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
50:07
SPEAKER_00: That leads me to a few wrap-up questions.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: And first one being is where do you see yourself one year from now versus five years from now as far as being a writer goes?
50:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, so one year from now, it's fairly straightforward.
50:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm hoping that I'm in the same place as I am right now with the collection, but with the novel, you know, one year from now, like my editor has been like, you know, uh, we can work with this, has given me edits back.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've edited it, turned it back in, and they're like, this is finished, this is great, let's go forward.
50:44
SPEAKER_01: And it's slated to come out around this time fall of next year.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, seems like a lot of uncertainty between now and then.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: But I think that everybody wants that to be like that's what everybody wants, like a year from now.
50:57
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, no pressure, but if I can make that happen, that's where that's gonna be.
51:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, I do have, you know, I do have TV and film representation.
51:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's funny, that's actually how I that's how I started on this leveling up journey, is that uh, you know, uh someone here uh just met serendipitously.
51:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh hey, read my short stories, and they were like, you know, I want to represent you for TV and film.
51:23
SPEAKER_01: Let's find you like a literary agent.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: And then the rest is kind of history.
51:27
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's been a lot of um uh uh exciting conversations with that.
51:32
SPEAKER_01: A lot of everything's pretty much put on hold right now with like the two strikes going on, uh, both of which I support, by the way.
51:38
SPEAKER_01: So we'll just see where things go with that uh in the future.
51:42
SPEAKER_01: That's a very exciting and new thing.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: Somebody told me once that that that um publishing is no, no, no, no, yes.
51:49
SPEAKER_01: And then Hollywood is yes, yes, yes, yes, no.
51:52
SPEAKER_01: So I'm you know, I'm I'm you know, great analysis.
51:58
SPEAKER_01: But who knows what that might come uh come about in next year.
52:01
SPEAKER_01: I say five years from now, like, you know, um I'll just say it, I want to write a book a year.
52:07
SPEAKER_01: And I'm right now I was I was kind of pausing now because now that I'm like um you know two months out from this novel being due, like a book a year, maybe a book a lifetime, but but you know, I would love, I remember just seeing like Stephen King putting on like a book a year.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to be in a place where you know, I'd you know, writing like a book a year, like doing, like doing novels, um, and then I'd still be doing psychiatry work.
52:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I don't think that I would be doing um uh psychiatry like full, full time, but I would still be keep keeping on a good panel of patients.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: Um uh but the you know, the the dream book wise would be doing about a novel a year.
52:50
SPEAKER_01: Um uh so that's where I'll be.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: So I guess five years from now, realistically, this second book, let's see if it comes out next year.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: We got to get some time to see how that does.
53:00
SPEAKER_01: Maybe the next one will come out two years from then and then another year.
53:04
SPEAKER_01: So maybe five years, be looking at my fourth book, maybe.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there we go.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: There we go, and possibly some TV and movie options attached to these short stories and books.
53:16
SPEAKER_00: I honestly was gonna go there, but then I thought to myself, there are a couple of strikes going on, so I don't want to go too deep into that.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: But I also wanted to highlight more of your current happenings as opposed to venture off into what could be, but I am super excited to hear that because honest to goodness, while I was listening to some of your descriptors, I'm like, that would be such a great movie or a miniseries or something along those lines.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: With that said, what is your favorite Stephen King book?
53:51
SPEAKER_00: Being such a huge Stephen King fan yourself?
53:54
SPEAKER_00: Man, I might give a few different answers to this.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: The one that scared me the most was uh The Shining.
53:59
SPEAKER_01: Um there's just it's horror.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: It could be just so there's a part in it where like he like kills all these wasps in like a bottle and then he puts it outside, and the next morning they're all dead, and the next morning they're all alive.
54:11
SPEAKER_01: And it's just like if that ever happened, just like subtle things, if they ever happen in like real life, it'd be like the whole world's turned upside down, you know what I mean?
54:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, so I remember that his power was always a nuance, yeah.
54:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'd say epically it, you know, it's long, it has some of its issues.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know if you've ever read it, it has like a you know, a part that probably well that could have been left out, but it's something I've always I think wanted to do.
54:44
SPEAKER_01: Some not not that part that should be left out, but do something like in terms of like almost having like a whole town almost be like the uh like a character.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: Um and I think there's something like strong about like that childhood, you know, nostalgia, like I didn't grow up in the 50s or 60s, but you know, something about being a kid and reading it, you know, and that childhood horror.
55:04
SPEAKER_01: So I really, I really like loved and appreciate like the epicness of it.
55:11
SPEAKER_01: And and yeah, so I would say, you know, if I had to, you know, beach if I was on a desert island and only have one of his books, I feel like it'd probably be it.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: Because by the time I finish it, I'd be like, oh, what was the beginning like?
55:26
SPEAKER_01: You know, I can go back and read it.
55:28
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: So fun little fun little footnote here is when I was a kid, I used to go to thrift stores, garage sales.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: I collected Stephen King books.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: So if I could find something on hardcover, it went home with me and it it sat on the shelf.
55:46
SPEAKER_00: My favorite has always been different seasons for some reason.
55:50
SPEAKER_00: The four short stories.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: There's a short story called Rage.
55:54
SPEAKER_00: And if you get a chance to read that one, it eerily paralleled the events of Columbine like 20 years before Columbine even happened.
56:05
SPEAKER_00: So I remember the day that Columbine happened, and I was actually sitting in a restaurant with a friend, and we're watching this unfold on TV, and my mind immediately went to that Stephen King book, and I was like, Stephen King predicted this.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: Like the Simpsons, yes, yes, exactly.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: Like The Simpsons.
56:25
SPEAKER_00: It was like, it was such an eerie feeling, and I've never been able to share that experience with a lot of people because let's let's be honest, a lot of people don't read Stephen King, they watch Stephen King.
56:38
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, yeah, it's a shame.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think uh I think I have different seasons.
56:43
SPEAKER_01: Uh looking, oh, that's needful things.
56:47
SPEAKER_01: But I will definitely, I don't think I've read Rage, but I will definitely look for it.
56:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I have a whole Stephen King role.
56:54
SPEAKER_01: But one of the things, Stephen King, uh uh, you know, he's not just a horror writer, like he, you know, um Shawshank Redemption, the Green Mile.
57:03
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he tells he tells this story.
57:06
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if I can tell it over, but I guess it's fine.
57:08
SPEAKER_01: But he tells this story, he's told it like a few times where he was like in a grocery store, um, and this older lady came up to him and was like, Are you that horror writer that writes all those those scary things?
57:19
SPEAKER_01: And he was like, Yes.
57:20
SPEAKER_01: She was like, I don't like things like that.
57:21
SPEAKER_01: I like stuff like uh the green mile and shovelshank redemption.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: He was like, like, I wrote those.
57:27
SPEAKER_01: She was like, No, you didn't.
57:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, so right?
57:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you so he's just really great.
57:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
57:33
unknown: Yeah.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's amazing.
57:36
SPEAKER_00: Man, this has been an amazing conversation.
57:38
SPEAKER_00: The last question I ask every guest, and it's your turn to be in the uh be in the barrel for it, is what is your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today?
57:50
SPEAKER_01: My advice, the first thing that comes to mind is recognizing that each of us has a unique perspective and experience, and our brains create a model of the world to help shepherd us through that perspective and experience, and using that to continue to question your assumptions about the world and about other people.
58:24
SPEAKER_01: This is a long way of saying trying to be more empathetic, um, trying to have more, I think, uh doubt with not doubt, I think curiosity with other people's experience, their assumptions and where they're coming from.
58:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that can lead to uh better conversations and discourse without having to you know minimize or jeopardize the things that you believe in.
58:56
SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
58:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, it does, sir.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it does.
59:01
SPEAKER_00: Justin C.
59:02
SPEAKER_00: Key, I am so glad that we are friends now.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: This is more than just a podcasting guesting platform, buddy.
59:09
SPEAKER_00: We are friends now.
59:10
SPEAKER_00: I would love to have you on the show again in the future.
59:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, this has been great.
59:14
SPEAKER_00: This has been great.
59:15
SPEAKER_00: I I really appreciate being here.
59:17
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, thank you for your time.
59:18
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for inviting me here.
59:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, thank you very much.
59:21
SPEAKER_00: The world's a much better place with you in it, my friend.
59:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
59:24
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
59:24
SPEAKER_01: The world wasn't ready, but now they are that's right.
59:29
SPEAKER_00: Once again, I want to thank my friend Justin C.
59:31
SPEAKER_00: Key for doing the show today.
59:34
SPEAKER_00: The World Wasn't Ready for You comes out on HarperCollins on September 19th, 2023.
59:42
SPEAKER_00: Make sure you pick up a copy and support Justin.
59:45
SPEAKER_00: I have a feeling we are going to be hearing a lot more from him in the future.
59:51
SPEAKER_00: And an editorial footnote citing My Own Mistake, the Short Story Rage.
59:57
SPEAKER_00: Written by Stephen King under the pseudonym Richard Bachman, was contained in the Bachman book, not indifferent details.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: My bad.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_00: Make sure you give JustinT a follow on all social media platforms, visit him at JustinTT.com.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_00: And while you're checking things out, make sure you give Caught on the Mic on all of your favorite social media platforms and visit me at www.cockonthemic.com.
1:00:25
SPEAKER_00: You can also check me in email at hawkonthemic at gmail.com.
1:00:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm Michael Clark.
1:00:35
SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.