Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #251: Joel Salatin’s Unpopular Take on Thomas Massie’s Loss

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Episode #251: Joel Salatin’s Unpopular Take on Thomas Massie’s Loss · Beyond Labels Premium

0:00
SPEAKER_01: Are there times to go to war?
0:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, yes.
0:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I do believe there are times.
0:04
SPEAKER_01: In fact, you know, I'm at war with our own country to free me up to sell chicken pot pies to my neighbors.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: We've got twice as many people in prisons as we have farmers.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: They've got ten times as many farmers as they have in prisons.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Is that bad?
0:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
0:17
SPEAKER_01: He finally did the unpardonable to question showing our power and might.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: And that is unforgivable.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough, and I'm here with our favorite farmer, Joel Salatin.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: And today we're on the farm again.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: So this is such a blessing for me to be here.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm thrilled every time I get to come here.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: It's like my battery gets recharged.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for having me on the farm, Joel.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be here in person, too, because we're gonna talk about one of your good friends, Thomas Massey.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Everybody's wanting to know what's your take on what happened with Massey.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: So let's catch the listeners up.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Seven-term incumbent Representative Thomas Massey was defeated in the May Republican primary for Kentucky's fourth conditional congressional congestion congressional district.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: Congressional district.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Let's get it, yeah.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: So he was defeated by Ed, who was a reliable Trump voter.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: 57.8% to 47.5.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: This was the most expensive U.S.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: House primary in history.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: There was about$32 million spent.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: There was about there was Trump-backed groups and pro-Israel organizations, you know, out to get Massey.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: So, Joel, what's your take?
1:44
SPEAKER_00: And why did he lose?
1:46
SPEAKER_01: My take that I actually haven't heard from any other source.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: So this is you can you can take this as oh he's just spouting off, or you can take it, huh?
1:55
SPEAKER_01: That's that's an interesting take.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't care how you take it, but here's my take.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Knowing Massey, knowing um, knowing rural people like I do.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: I I live in a in a similarly very conservative agricultural place.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: And hillbillies, hillbillies um love to fight.
2:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, they I mean the hat feels a McCoys, okay?
2:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there there is a there's a tradition in the countryside of I mean fighting for our rights, fighting for, I mean, Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, uh uh think of our American, you know, the old um wild Bill Hickok, uh Buffalo Bill Cody.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you you you go back in this this genre and um and it's it's a warrior, and and there's a there's a lot of positive things about a warrior mentality, especially if you're a male.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm defending my wife and kids, I'm defending our land, I'm defending our home, I'm you know, this is this is a man's responsibility, and uh, and I don't mind being a sexist.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: Women, women make the home, men protect the home.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that that's historically that's kind of been the way it way it is.
3:30
SPEAKER_01: And so, and so um, so fighting, warrioring, and that sort of thing is kind of in the in the rural ethos, if you will.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm getting at.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: And and and that's the kind of area that Massey represented.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: It was a very, very rural, very um uh country kind of um uh dynamic.
3:51
SPEAKER_01: And when he questioned the war in Iran, it on, um, and and dared to say, A, it's it's unconstitutional because Congress declares war, not the president.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: If you read your constitution, so um, you know, three weeks ago I I spoke at the uh Libertarian National Convention, and you know, it's their it's their position that we haven't had a legitimate war since World War II.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Congress is supposed to declare war.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: So Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, um, Iraq, now Iran, and there's probably others in between, if you're gonna go to war, Congress is supposed to do that constitutionally.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: So, so for him to question that and then question the validity of that war, and you know it's interesting when you talk to um military people, and I have, and I ask them, so do you think Iran, if they had a nuclear weapon, would they would they launch it at the U.S.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: I haven't had a single person say yes.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: Or that we would not know it if before they launched it and intercept it on its way.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: In other words, and and I know we're we're touching on some partisanship here.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna get we're we're making some people very happy and some people very angry.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, but my take on Massey's defeat is the reason I'm belaboring the the rural ethos is because I think when you come across as like a Ron Paul and say, maybe fighting should be one of the last things that we do instead of one of the first things we do.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go knock your teeth out, you know.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: Maybe that should be like after you're um seriously threatened, okay?
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Or you know, or the guy's got his fists balled up.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, now you can ball yours up, all right?
6:07
SPEAKER_01: That when a person isn't run isn't jumping on that, they're perceived as a wimp.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: As a sissy.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think that Massey's defeat reflects a rural ethos that a a non-aggressive warrior, belligerent uh personality can't survive the the sissification, the the assumed sys I don't think that's a word, but I think everybody knows what I'm talking about.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: The assumed sisification of let's be let's be slow to anger, slow to wrath, slow to balling up our fists.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: And and and and this even speaks to um you we see it you you the partisan issue, think about the militancy of, for example, the Black Lives Matter movement, the uh the pro Hamas uh you know, student things on on college campuses where they take over, you know, uh take over campuses and things.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: Um these are these are pretty uh aggressive, you know, um ball up your fist kind of thing.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: And uh and and and it makes I can tell you it makes these country people, oh we just need to go in and and and these and and and shoot them.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I hear that.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: I hear that from people in the country.
7:41
SPEAKER_01: And um because you know, we country people, we got a pretty independent streak, you know.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Leave me alone.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that's that's one of the things that we get here.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: When you're uh when you're in the city, you're used to your space being violated.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: When you're in the country, you're not used to your space being violated.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Some strange car goes down a road and you're gonna binoculars.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: Where's that come?
8:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, where where'd they turn?
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Who's that, you know?
8:05
SPEAKER_01: Um and so I my take on Massey is not so much that they disliked his that suddenly people want a bigger government or more taxes or any of the things that he was in favor of.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: I think I think his questioning of the Iran war um put him in a persona of being timid, weak, and sissy to folks who are addicted to um to fighting uh in the countryside.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: And and if I may just add one thing, it it bothers me that the White House is being uh the White House lawn is being um set up to host um um pro-fighting, wrestling, and martial arts stuff.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: I I'm not sure that's what we want to glorify as a society.
9:15
SPEAKER_01: How about we glorify the person that makes more earthworms?
9:20
SPEAKER_01: How about we glorify the person that makes happier pigs or that or that you know brings healing to a person?
9:27
SPEAKER_01: How about we glorify that?
9:30
SPEAKER_01: And and um and so to me it it's sad because it speaks to a to a persona that I don't think our culture is willing to recognize, work with.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: I mean, look what we did to the Native Americans.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: They're not like us, kill them, uh, you know.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: Um and and uh were they perfect?
9:53
SPEAKER_01: No.
9:53
SPEAKER_01: But just because somebody's not perfect doesn't give you the right to go shoot up all their babies.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: And um and are there times to go to war?
10:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, yes, I I do believe there are times.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: In fact, you know, I'm at war with our own country to to free me up to sell chicken pot pies to my neighbors, you know.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: That's my war, okay?
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Now it's not fought with pistols and guns and bombs, but it but it's uh it it's it's a war nonetheless.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: But it's a war for for liberty, for righteousness, for what is true.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: And um and so I think all that was wrapped up.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: I'll stop yakking, but uh let you feel but that that's my take that he he finally did the unpardonable, which was to question um showing our power and might.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: And that is unforgivable.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: I I think Nancy would probably agree with you because he said there is a yearning in this country for someone who will vote for principles over party, but not the older voters.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: So he was saying he had the vote of the younger people and not the olders, which is what you're essentially saying.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:24
SPEAKER_00: Is that he couldn't get that vote.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: But the younger generation coming up does resonate with that message.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: But I think also, you know, so he voted like against foreign aid for military assistance, like including to Israel.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, people people uh castigated him for being anti-Israel.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, I know the man.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: We've spent a lot of time together.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: He's not anti-Israel.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: He he's anti-foreign aid.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: We we we shouldn't give money to anybody.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: And if anybody knows me, you know, I'm I I I Israel's gonna be just fine.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh I could tell you a bunch of stories.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: I've been there and talked to people where I just say it, you know, they're God's chosen people, period.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, biblically, you can't get away from that.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: Now, now, is the government perfect?
12:19
SPEAKER_01: Is, you know, what I mean, it's a socialist government in in general.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh are there flaws?
12:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes, there are flaws, but it's not the U.S.'s uh responsibility to um to reach our arm across the globe to get in each other's, get in other people's grills.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: George Washington, here we are at the 250th anniversary.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh George Washington, what was the thing that he said in his farewell address?
12:48
SPEAKER_01: He says, um, don't become entangled with any he said, be friends with all and trade fairly with all, but don't make any agreements.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: We should not have joined NATO.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: We should not be in the U.N.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Massey's position is that we should we shouldn't be giving foreign aid to anybody.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: And our whatever, it was like 357 bases around the world, U.S.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: foreign bases.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: Close them down.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: Come home.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, Paul Harvey said, let's um let's hoe our own garden.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: Don't try to hoe somebody else's garden.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Hoe your own garden.
13:27
SPEAKER_01: And and I think I think that we have just become, well, we've become an empire.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: We've not become a nation.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: We've we've become another empire.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: And what do empires do?
13:39
SPEAKER_01: Their their reach exceeds their grasp.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: And so we're out here trying to project our muscle around the world, and goodness, um, virtually every conflict we've fought since World War II have been against countries that are using our own given weapons against us.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Look at Afghanistan.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the day the day we left Afghanistan, they became the second largest weapons arsenal on the planet.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: $50 billion of you.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: Sina, you and I can't pay enough taxes to keep this kind of thing going.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: There's not enough money in the country to make it go this way.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: And that's the kind of thing, you know, Massey made a little ticker on it.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: She wore everywhere, a little ticker that ticked the uh the national um debt.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I've stared at that thing more minutes than you could, I mean, it and and and so it's in the trillions, so it's so it's whatever it is, what not um 12 figures.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, 12 figures.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like the um it's like the uh the ticker on a on a gas pump, you know.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: The and when you're when you're pumping gas and that and and the the tenth of a gallon, you know, they're going pretty fast.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Or if you've ever ever watched them put uh put jet fuel in a jet, if you're in a wind and you're watching, and and look at the little ticker on the on the tank truck that's bringing the fuel out to the jet.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, you can't even see the gallons, they're going so fast.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, well, you know, his his uh national debt ticker, um the first the first uh let's see, four digits would be to a thousand, five digits would be to ten thousands, you literally cannot see the first five digits.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just it's just a blur.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: It's just a blur, that's how fast it's ticking.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: And and um and massey has been, you know, I I I say about Massey, I said, I say if Ron Paul, if Ron Paul was uh Elijah, Massey was Elisha.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: He he got Ron Paul's mantle when when he went off.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: And and and Ron Paul, you know, started a movement.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: My favorite Ron Paul story, remember in uh in the first um the first run-up to Trump's first uh presidency election, there were what nine Republicans running?
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Ron Paul was one of them, and um, I think Marco Rubio and uh um the Florida governor uh DeSantis, you know, there were there were there were a bunch.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: And uh they're all nine, they're having this this this debate, and they're all nine there.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: And the question is um if if uh Fidel Castro called you tomorrow, so this is back in whatever, 2014, right?
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, if Fidel Castro called you tomorrow, what would you say?
16:35
SPEAKER_01: And they go down the line, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Every one of them, oh, you terrible person, you you know, we're gonna blow you out, you know, all this stuff.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: They get to Ron Paul, he's the last one.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: I'll never forget it.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm watching it on the TV over at mom's because we don't have a TV.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: And um, and and get to Ron Paul, Ron Paul says, Well, I'd ask him what he wanted.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, that's human.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's that's the right thing to ask.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: Don't assume anything.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Just give the guy uh benefit of the doubt and say, well, what do you want?
17:12
SPEAKER_01: And um and I I think I think that this is this is Massey's problem with the people.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: We we we want a pigeonhole, we want to judge, we want to, we want to throw people under the bus, and um, and we want to we want to assume um we want to assume things that aren't true, and um and and and it's it's unfortunate.
17:35
SPEAKER_01: And as a nation, you know, I'm I I fear, I fear that we're trying to dominate the world, and and we're making more enemies by doing it.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: How how many problems, I mean Trump says he he stopped, whatever, eight conflicts.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't think he stopped eight conflicts, but of those conflicts, how many, how many were because we we USAID or whatever went in there and and discombobulated things.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: I remember, I'll never forget it.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I I've I've just got, you know, these are such poignant stories.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: Um the first time I was at um I was at the the slow food convivium in um Italy, Turin, Italy, with um uh Petrini.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: I I was speaking, but when I wasn't speaking, I went so there were there were um what a hundred and a hundred and forty foreign countries represented at the at the um slow food convivium there in uh Italy.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: And uh it was like it was like a UN of sustainable ag.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh Prince Charles came and spoke, and it was it was a it was a big deal.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Um and so when I wasn't speaking, I went to hear other, you know, I went every country sent a delegation.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: The U.S., we sent, I don't know what, you know, 12 of us or something, but you know, all these countries.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: And of course, you know, these African countries, and they got these beautiful, you know, yellow and red, you know how how when let me tell you, African people know how to dress up.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they got colors, you know.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: And uh, and so I I would so I was especially interested in the African delegation, so I went to their presentations.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: Every single one of them, Cena, said, we can feed ourselves, we've got plenty of resources, we got plenty of soil, plenty of labor, but we're all messed up because Western countries, especially the U.S., keep eliminating our farmers by sending foreign aid.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: And so what happens is this foreign aid comes in, free food, cheap, whatever, and it displaces the entrepreneurs who are trying to make a living.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: And what do those entrepreneurs do?
20:05
SPEAKER_01: Entrepreneurs, they're creative, they they don't want to sit around on their hands, okay?
20:11
SPEAKER_01: And so the entrepreneurs turn into warlords.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: So you got all these gangsters running around that would be running legitimate businesses and being you know helpful in the in the social and economy, but they're but but they've been displaced by all this foreign aid.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: And every single one of them, it was a every single one of them within 10 minutes of their presentation said, U.S.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: get out.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: Wow, we don't need you.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: What an amazing unintended consequence.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, I would think that the motivation for the aid was good from the heart.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
20:49
SPEAKER_00: But to not understand, I guess, the culture enough, or you know, even the character of the people, and then it turned out to be a negative.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, well, well, you know, the question of how can I help you?
21:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: Ask.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: It's it's such a powerful question.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, I go back to I go back to Jesus, you know.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: He what was whenever he encountered some lame person, blind person, he said, What would you like me to do?
21:15
SPEAKER_01: He didn't even jump in and heal people without them saying, I'd like to see, or I'd like to walk, or I'd, you know, whatever it is, you know, the I'd like my daughter to to, I want my son to quit throwing himself in the fire, yeah, whatever.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was always you you you had to he respected people enough to say to to let them identify their need before he stepped in.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: We don't do that.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: We've got these agencies and these programs that are on on autopilot, you know, another another transport plane of ship frigate, you know, whatever it goes to uh a place.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: And um and and we we we personally saw it in Venezuela, you know, when When the revolution and the and the the puppet government that was um expropriating people's lands uh was being propped up by U.S.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: foreign aid, and the U.S.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: here media was saying, everything's great in Venezuela, you know, the right people are in power, the right people are making the decisions.
22:19
SPEAKER_01: How many give me a break?
22:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, it it it's so presumptuous.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: That's one reason why I've been very uh I've done very little um traveling and seminars in especially undeveloped areas of the world.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: It's not because I want to charge a bunch of money uh to go, it's because I'm paranoid of being, here comes the great white man with all the answers, you know, and I'm I'm paranoid of that.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: And and I realized I can't, I can't just walk in and and uh I was I was um I was involved early on with a Lutheran women's project in Zim in Zimbabwe.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: And uh it was a wonderful project, and they were they were trying to figure out a way to empower women to make a living because the men were just out killing each other and fighting and marauding and whatever.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: And so they latched on to a pastured poultry project and let's go start this in Zimbabwe.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: So I worked with them and helped them, and um, and and they started, and they had they had a they had a market for the chickens, they could get feed, uh, they had labor.
23:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was everything was positive, but it all broke down because they couldn't get ahead of the roving juvenile men who would come and steal the chickens at night.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: They couldn't, I mean, it's one thing to try to out fox a fox or out-raccoon a raccoon, another thing to try to out, you know, especially, you know, women trying to protect their their interests.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: So the whole thing, you know, collapsed about that way.
24:02
SPEAKER_01: And and the truth is that that is very common around the world.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was in um Bulgaria, and um Bulgaria, you know, was was communist, and then they stopped being communist.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, so I'm talking to these farmers, and they can't get land, not because they can't buy it, they got plenty of money and plenty of land, but because the government now is trying to get that land back to the people they stole it from 80 years ago.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, the couple that was on that farm is long dead.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: They've got 30 great-grandchildren.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: And so, like one guy I talked to, he's trying to get five acres next to him.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: He had to get signatures from 30, from 30 people to buy that five acres to be able to farm on it.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: See, those people don't need foreign aid.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: They they have, in fact, the U.S.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: can't fix their problem.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, Paul Harvey used to say, civilization at its most accelerated pace is agonizingly gradual.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, and and and and uh, you know, you can't just you can't just turn people into Americans.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: You can't just turn societies into a republic.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh you you can't just, I mean, a lot of times these are tribal, and uh, and this is the situation in the Middle East, you know, it's basically a tribal, uh a tribal culture.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: There's not a there's not a Kuwait, there's not uh an Iraq, it's it's a country of five tribes, as opposed to America.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: We we call ourselves a melting pot.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: Middle East is not a melting pot.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's it's um it's all these tribes that we read about, and well, who's they?
26:04
SPEAKER_01: How do you know you're a Sunni and all this stuff?
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, it's all it's all this tribal stuff.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I mean this was the problem with the Native American population here.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I'm a I'm I'm just an avid student of that, you know, pre-European history and and the whole this whole uh takeover, this conquest of of the of the white conquest of the U.S.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: and um and pretty much now I think most historians agree that if the Native Americans had not been tribal and had gotten together, we would have had a different outcome.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: But they were fighting each other.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: They were always short of short of um boys because they were being killed.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: So they would go raid another tribe to capture boys to come back to be enough husbands for the girls, you know.
26:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this was a and so and so in the Middle East is very much that way.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: So is Africa, you know, and and I'm I'm not being condescending, and I'm not saying it's it, but to sit here in our American silo and just say, you should be like us, well, they've got some pretty good things going for them too.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: One thing is they don't have they don't have 2% of their population or 3% incarcerated in prisons.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: You know, we've got we've got twice as many people in prisons as we have farmers.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: They've got they've got ten times as many farmers as they have in prisons.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Is that bad?
27:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't think so.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: So it comes back to asking first.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: It comes back to asking first.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: How can I and be and being humble enough to say I I don't I don't have your context all figured out.
27:52
SPEAKER_01: You gotta you gotta tell me.
27:54
SPEAKER_01: And and and then the other thing is just to realize that you you don't have to inject yourself in every need.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: It's presumptuous to say every need I've gotta be a part of.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: No, no.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: I can save you.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh you don't you don't need that.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I I think I think the massy well, and we're seeing it now, uh, right now in the media, we're see we're seeing um a gradual move among Republicans uh moving away from supporting the Iran war.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're seeing that now in you know op-ed pieces and media and stuff.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: I I I think there I think there's a there's a cracking um in that.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: And um I the the US is in such a unique place.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've got a Pacific on one side, we've got the Atlantic on the other, we've got a friendly nation to the north, a quasi-friendly nation to the south, but it's you know it's not a great big thing.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, no country in the world is better situated for natural protectiveness than the United States.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we are unique, we are you maybe, maybe Australia.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Maybe Australia's, you know, um and and you know, I don't know, New Zealand.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: But but but as a country, we are we are very, very well insulated.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: And um and we need we just need to quit running around the world.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: And and and and this is what this is what people that want to watch WWE, um I don't even know.
29:57
SPEAKER_01: You know, where they where they beat up each other.
29:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, some of it's fake and some of it's real.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, but but all that all that uh you know it it reminds me of the of the Coliseum in Rome.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: It reminds me of the gladiators.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Um I see I yeah, I never got boxing.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: What why why why would you think it's good to hurt somebody?
30:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that that that that is the actual, I mean, do people get hurt in football?
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's not the goal.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Do people get hurt in basketball?
30:31
SPEAKER_01: Yes, but that's not the goal.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, for the goal to be I'm gonna hurt you, I I'm sorry, I don't get it.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, other than maybe it taps into, like you talked about, that warrior side.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah of I mean, and that's in there somewhere, that protective side.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think oftentimes in our culture, we may not have, or not us like men in particular, may not have the outlet to express that.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: So maybe it's a way to channel that you know, warrior we have.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: So less lest everybody think, man, Joel is the wimpiest guy I've ever seen.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: I know I'm standing like the strong one here.
31:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:08
SPEAKER_01: So, so so I think I think there's a difference.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Listen, if somebody uh I sleep with a baseball bat under my bed, I mean, somebody comes in, you know, I'm gonna take them out.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: All right, I don't have any problem.
31:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh and and I don't have any problem, somebody punches me in the nose, you know, um, you're okay.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: So, so I don't think there's a I don't think judo, uh uh whatever, you know, um kung fu, I don't I don't even know the names of them, all that.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: But but I I don't think martial arts are inherently wrong, okay?
31:47
SPEAKER_01: But there's one thing, it's one thing to practice so that you can be a warrior when called upon.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: It's another thing to in your spare time engage in in activities that are inherently uh inherently incentivized to hurt somebody.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:21
SPEAKER_01: It's one thing to practice and be good at it.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I, you know, US military, I want guys to know how to kill people, okay?
32:29
SPEAKER_01: If somebody comes after us, all right.
32:33
SPEAKER_01: But you but you don't have to, you don't have to, the military does not have to become good at killing people by killing each other in practice.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: Are you with me?
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah you you you you make games, you you, you know, you you do this stuff, you don't hurt each other, and so I've just never gotten boxing.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: And and I don't hate Muhammad Ali and these guys, you know, but I I just never I just never got when when the goal is to hurt the guy, I just I just don't get it.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think boxing exists still because there's an audience for it.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: So clearly there's you have people who want to see the violence.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: Um I mean it's the market, right?
33:17
SPEAKER_00: The market spoke.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh absolutely.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: And we're still we saw the same thing, I think, in this Massey incident where it was a fight against him and Trump.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, um Trump even said he was a bad guy, he deserves to lose, right?
33:32
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the you know, called him, I think he even called him a moron.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: Like he he sent, what was it, Pete Heg set out there?
33:38
SPEAKER_00: He sent some top.
33:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Trump's a bully.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: I mean, let's just his his persona is a bully.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: And I'm suggesting that that the rural audience that tunes in their TV to watch professional wrestling and and all the stupidity of this, oh, you know, stuff, they they like bullies.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: They like bullies.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like you said, it's seen as strong.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a strength.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: And Massey was seen with the with the weakness.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:16
SPEAKER_00: So I think that there's a pattern here too that the takeaway for me was if you're a Republican who crosses President Trump, you're gonna pay the political consequences.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: And we saw that um, so his defeat was not in isolation.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: I wrote down a couple um examples here, like in Texas, we saw Senator Um John Um Corny, who was there, I think, for 24 years, right, in the Senate leadership.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: He was um targeted because um if it passed bipartisan deal making.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: So in the May runoff, the um Trump-backed person crushed him, like 36%, I think, to like 63%.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: Louisiana, we saw the same thing.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: We saw Senator Bill Cassidy, he was basically forced out.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: He was one of the seven Republicans, if you remember, who voted to convict Trump in uh the one of the impeachment trials.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: He also was the leader against RFK Jr.'s nomination.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: So there might have been a little more stuff going on there.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but yeah, okay, go on your list.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, your list is good.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: You're you're right.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Um in Georgia, we had the Secretary of State, um Brad Um Raffensberger.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: He was a primary target because he refused to alter the 2020 election results.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: So his bid for governor ended.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, and now we're actually in a runoff.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, actually, and now uh those two candidates who are in the runoff, they're campaigning on um I brought some of the flyers that got came in our mail.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh so here's one of them.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: He's a Georgia Trump.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh like literally, it's like they're fighting now of who is more who's more Trump.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: Who's more Trumpish?
35:58
SPEAKER_01: Who's more Trumpish?
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, here's one.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh here's one for you know a a different one.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: President Um Will Wade, staunch defender of President Trump's agenda with Trump with the President.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, with his f uh.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's there they actually have ads now running on television where it's just Trump saying, like, he's the best.
36:19
SPEAKER_00: And then again, he's the best.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: Like they just want to get it across.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: It is Trump's party, is like is in essence what I'm saying here.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: We saw the same thing in Indiana.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: Um the there was incumbent Republican senators, actually, six of them, who lost their local primaries uh against Trump back endorsers, uh, because they voted against the state congress congressional redistricting map.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: So Trump publicly actually threatened them with a uh MAGA primary, and all six of them lost.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: So it is, I think what I'm seeing too is that it is now Trump's party.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of presidents, even if they win two terms, are there for eight years.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: Trump, in essence, because he lost the second term, he's he will, in essence, have been around for 12 years.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: Like that's much more time to actually influence somebody.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, he's he's a bully.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: Some of the old Republicans are leaving or have left.
37:14
SPEAKER_00: You got the new blood coming in.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: He's reshaping this entire and the other thing in between was the Biden administration was so terrible, was so terrible that it made Trump look even better than he was because the the difference was so uh dramatic.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Remember back in the 70s, there's you know, there's not a dime's worth of difference.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh old uh George Wallace, you know, Alabama governor.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: Um not a dime's worth of difference between the Democrats and Republicans he ran as an independent.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: And and uh during Biden's there was a lot of difference between the Democrats and Republicans.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: And so I think I think the um, you know, the the low quality of Biden's administration accentuated the positives of Trump's yeah.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: More than it would have if there had been actually a a good strong Democratic president.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Oh, without a doubt.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: So what's what people have been bringing up that they think is interesting is um Iowa's Republican primary for governor.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: And Maha is claiming victory on that one.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: So um to catch catch people up, but the party voters rejected Trump's endorsement there.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: Um there's Zach uh Zach Lawn.
38:24
SPEAKER_01: Zach Lawn.
38:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, he's been here.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: He's been to the farm.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: He flew his plane down here to the farm.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's been here.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: He was here last summer, and he's a he's a food freedom advocate.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've spent the day with him.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: He's uh he's a he's a strong guy, and um so I was delighted to see him um you know uh come out on top there.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's a businessman and um family farm owner, and he defeated um uh Randy Benstraw, who was Trump's endorsed candidate.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: So when I had looked at this point, this was the first time in the midterm election that a Trump-backed candidate um for either governor, house, or senate had lost a primary.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: Um and it was close.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: It was something around like 37.8 to 37.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was really close.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: Real close.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: So but what I wanted to get your take on this because I looked into this and I'm thinking, okay, why did he win?
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Why are all these other ones not winning?
39:21
SPEAKER_00: But this one candidate who is Maha back won.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's a little more complicated than that.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, I I don't personally think that um so what I'm hearing from a lot of people in Maha is that they're using this as an example of they have enough sway on the federal level.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, they've been working on like state and local level that like you know, they're ready now to be big dogs on the federal level.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm not quite sure because there's a lot of different pieces here.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: So, for example, Maha did back him, but also Turning Point Action backed him.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: They're huge, right?
39:56
SPEAKER_00: So they've got that momentum.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, Fenstraw, he portrayed himself as a Trump loyalist, right?
40:02
SPEAKER_00: But he was painted by some others as soft on immigration.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: So he also got has that going against him.
40:09
SPEAKER_00: And um I think what Lon did was something that was really um maybe even like a playbook that people can learn from.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: Because what what he did was he took the Maha agenda of, you know, we're gonna get clean water and whatnot, uh, clean food so that it would make us healthy again.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: But he did a couple things.
40:32
SPEAKER_00: He so he never really, to my knowledge, he didn't say anything bad about Trump.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: Like he didn't chase after Trump or anything.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: And he ran on um a on a politically right platform, otherwise.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: So he wasn't necessarily seen as a moderate.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: He is a farmer, right?
40:49
SPEAKER_00: So he has that going for him with the farm vote.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: But he brought it local, so he took this Maha agenda, and instead of just espousing, like, okay, we're getting our nation's getting sicker and our waters are polluted, whatever.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: He made it applicable to the local people.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: So Iowa has one of the fastest growing rates of cancer incidence.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: And they have that huge issue, which you can um most polluted water.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: Most polluted water with fertil synthetic fertilizer runoff, it's making them sick.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: It's been connected, several reports, um, to cancer.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: It's a carcinogen.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: And so he basically cut through all the noise.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't look polished, you know, he wasn't handled.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: He went up there and he basically spoke the truth.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: He was authentic, and he was like, they're corrupt.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: We have this like one-party system here, and they're in bed with uh the companies, and I'm gonna I'm exposing this and I'm gonna do something about it.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: They're in bed with glyphosate.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: And I think because part of what worked to his advantage is because it is suck such a sick state.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: So we talked about that before with the health thing.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: You don't really understand the value of health, you don't really understand why, like trying to actually heal people or help people heal until you've gone through it yourself, right?
42:05
SPEAKER_00: There's so many people there that now have cancer, yeah, or they know somebody who has cancer.
42:10
SPEAKER_00: That when he stands up there and says, I hear you, like there is something wrong here.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm exposing it and I'm gonna do something about it.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: And I think that helped him because the local people are experiencing the pain.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: And they're like, somebody hears us and they get it, and he's authentic, he's not polished, so I trust him.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: In that way, he's a little bit Trumpian because oftentimes people, some people gravitate towards Trump because they think he's not polished, they think he's authentic.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: He just says it how it is, you know.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: You could debate that all you want, but yeah, yeah, I think in that sense it was reminiscent and Trump.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: So Trump did not.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: Trump is not polished.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: He's not polished at all.
42:50
SPEAKER_01: No.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, but like whether some people do argue if he's handled a little bit, but that's a whole nother topic.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: But you know, anybody that uses words like bigly.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding me?
43:01
SPEAKER_00: It must be a nightmare for you.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, ah, I'm so embarrassed.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: Butchering the king's English.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: But but yeah, so he speaks their language and he didn't attack Trump.
43:13
SPEAKER_00: And he, you know what I mean, and Trump did not target him.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: He didn't dump all this money into his campaign, you know, going against him like he did with Massey.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, I think I think your analysis uh has a lot of merit.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh perhaps another uh one that we saw similar is uh Steve Hilton's ascendancy in California, um for for the gubernatorial race in California.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: Now that that's still that's still you know in the offing, but um, but for for Steve Hilton, who is a uh a complete novice, um uh now he is a polished speaker, but but but he's a novice in politics.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of his first foray, and and he's extremely Aggressive on small government.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: For him to be right now, he's number two in California.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: I mean, most people are thinking he's actually going to be on the ballot.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, if he even get if he even makes top two, see in California, you got all these people running, and and they only allow the top two to actually be in the final voting.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, which I think is too bad, but anyway, that that's the way it is.
44:36
SPEAKER_01: And so uh it could be, you know, normally it's two it's two Democrats in California.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: Well, here we've got a really almost ultra-conservative um Republican going at at the number two spot.
44:55
SPEAKER_01: Um it speaks right to your point that you're talking about, you know, polluted water and cancer rates.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: He's talking about um polluted economics in California, high tax rates, you know, tax the rich and and and run every run all the businesses out of the state.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh and but that's that's a local.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: That's local for California.
45:20
SPEAKER_01: Of course, he's running for governor, so he it would be California as opposed to um Iowa.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: But but I think I think it's a similar situation that that when people reach a stomach turning point, they're ready for another option.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
45:37
SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: And you know, there was a report that came out, uh, a news story that came out where farmers in Iowa they're still in large part supporting Trump, but they're starting to have struggles with it as you know, diesel prices go up and fertilizer goes up and whatnot.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: But you know what I I wanted to get your take on it um before we wrap up here, because I found this fascinating.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: There was uh this was I believe I believe it was an NBC News article, and they interviewed all these different farmers across the country, across the state.
46:13
SPEAKER_00: And in Iowa.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: In Iowa.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: And the large majority of them are sticking with Trump.
46:22
SPEAKER_00: Like they're giving him the benefit of the doubt.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, they'll even say things like, oh, like, you know, when he said that, he didn't really mean that.
46:29
SPEAKER_00: He loves us, like all this stuff.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: So here's a couple quotes.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: I just want to get your quick take on it, and then and then I want to wrap up with um, what do you think Massey's gonna do next?
46:38
SPEAKER_00: All right.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: So the first quote is from a farmer.
46:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, I look at these programs where the government keeps wanting to write farmers checks.
46:46
SPEAKER_00: And to me, this is more medicine that's making us sick.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: I've got 10 people standing in line who think that dollar is theirs.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: Whether it's the equipment manufacturer selling me more parts for my tractors or the seed guy or my landlords, I never get to keep that money.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: Do you agree?
47:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
47:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the the subsidies program has essentially turned farmers into slaves.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: But this is to your point.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: Ask.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: Go to the farmers and ask what they need.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: He's saying he's and now the problem is that the farmers that they've been on the you know, on the on the federal teat for so long that they that the farmers can't even uh can't even think.
47:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the perfect example is the soybean farmers.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, they just got the$12 billion bailout, and and the soybean farmers are are are demanding uh, you know, we we need we need to make a living.
47:44
SPEAKER_01: We need to make a living.
47:46
SPEAKER_01: And the world doesn't need more soybeans.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, you're overproducing, we don't need any more soybeans, but I'm a soybean farmer and I deserve to make a living.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: There's not a soybean farmer out there, I don't think, who, if there were a project, let's say a construction project, and they said to build this building, we need uh we need 20 electricians.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: And um, so they have 20 electricians.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: There's not a soybean farmer out there that would come in and say, no, electricians is a noble trade.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: We need electricians, so I know you can do this with 20, but I demand that you have 30 electricians because those those electricians need a living.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: Not one of those farmers would say it, but that's what they're saying for themselves.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: We don't need more soybeans.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: That's how disconnected, that's how disconnected farmers now are to the to the actual food and farming system.
48:35
SPEAKER_01: That they've become just a bunch of of whining uh uh entitlements um thinking.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: And and it doesn't matter that they're overproducing, it doesn't matter if the world doesn't want what they're producing, it doesn't matter that the world doesn't need what they're producing.
48:54
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm a soybean farmer, and by golly, you gotta allow me to be keep continue being a soybean farmer.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: All right, this you may get a kick out of the next quote then.
49:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay, different farmer.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, the way we've been able to kind of survive is through the use of government payments.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: And that is not the way farmers want to operate.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: We want to find our income from the marketplace, and that means we need domestic markets, we need export markets, we need new technologies.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: Um it sounds in principle, it sounds good, but I don't know a single farmer who thinks the market can deliver that.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: When he says we need technology, we need domestic markets, we need exports.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, what he's not saying there is, and I depend on the government to get them for me.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: Like the soybean farmers right now are saying we demand more a domestic market for soybeans, so government figure out a way that we can put soybeans in diesel fuel.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: See, corn goes in gas, ethanol, soybeans are protein that goes in diesel.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: And or you can make diesel out of soybeans.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: So they're demanding the government do basically an ethanol uh equivalent to soybeans to increase the market for soybeans.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: The the the market doesn't it doesn't work in the market.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: It only works if the government puts their finger on the scale and tips it and says, We're gonna we're gonna give soybeans an unfair advantage in the marketplace.
50:39
SPEAKER_01: And so, um, no, actually, what these farmers need to do is say, um, you know, I'm done being a soybean farmer, I'm gonna grow cows.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: Because we really need more cows.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:52
SPEAKER_00: And let the market speak on that.
50:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so last one, do you agree or disagree?
50:59
SPEAKER_00: It's going to get ugly for a while, but in the long run, it meaning Trump's plan is going to help us.
51:08
SPEAKER_00: Is Trump's plan for the farmers going to help the farmers in the long run?
51:13
SPEAKER_01: No, I I I think no.
51:16
SPEAKER_01: Um I think the only plan that would help farmers is for Trump to step aside, get out of the way.
51:23
SPEAKER_01: And when he makes an executive order saying that our civilization will collapse if we don't give uh precedence to glyphosate, um, if we don't make uh I'm sorry, if we don't make glyphosate a national security uh product, uh necessary for our national security, um that's not going to get us out of the morass.
51:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh what we need is for the government to get out of the way, and that's why I support the food emancipation proclamation.
51:57
SPEAKER_01: If Trump came out tomorrow with a food emancipation proclamation, now that would change the needle.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: That would change the needle because suddenly, suddenly, thousands and thousands and thousands of small entrepreneurial farmers would be able to tap in to the um to the convenience food market in the US that they've been denied so far.
52:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was in the I was in the grocery store uh last week with with Teresa, and of course, you know, I I go look at other things, and um, and I found um I found um not hot pockets, uh, what's the other one?
52:39
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm blank.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: Um lunchables, lunchables.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: $12 a pound.
52:51
unknown: Oh yeah.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: And half of it's bread.
52:55
SPEAKER_01: And people are complaining to us about$10 a pound ground beef.
52:58
SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
53:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there is there is four times as much nutrition in one of my pounds of ground beef than there is in a pound of lunchables.
53:08
SPEAKER_01: And then we go down to the snack aisle, you know, um Hershey's Kisses, uh,$10 a pound.
53:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, uh Gummy Bears, nine bucks a pound.
53:18
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this stuff's expensive.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: It's expensive.
53:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, somebody was asking me uh the other day on a podcast, um, what do you think should be in the breakfast cereal aisle?
53:32
SPEAKER_01: I said, nothing.
53:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, nothing.
53:35
SPEAKER_01: You talk about you talk about spending a lot of money for nothing?
53:39
SPEAKER_01: Buy Cheerios, Fruit Loops, Captain Crunch.
53:45
SPEAKER_01: And then, and then you have look at the stand in line at the supermarket and watch the cartfuls of Mountain Dew, Dr.
53:54
SPEAKER_01: Pepper, six packs of of Coca-Cola.
53:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's truckloads and truckloads.
54:01
SPEAKER_01: Every time I go by and here comes a you know, Coca-Cola truck pass me on the inner, going by me on the interstate, or I'm passing it, I'm thinking, man, what a different world it would be if that didn't even exist.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine if it didn't even exist?
54:15
SPEAKER_01: And um and then and then I I see that um that the NBA finals in uh New York City, uh people are paying a hundred thousand dollars for a seat.
54:28
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
54:29
SPEAKER_01: A hundred thousand dollars for a seat.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: Don't tell me that we can't afford to eat nutritionally.
54:37
SPEAKER_01: Don't tell me.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: It just it it none of it makes sense.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: No, it's just priorities.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: No, it's it's just priorities.
54:43
SPEAKER_01: Gambling, sports gambling, billions and billions of dollars of sports gambling while folks are popping lace potato chips, drinking Coca-Cola, saying I can't afford good.
54:54
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, no.
54:55
SPEAKER_01: Is there poverty?
54:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes, there is poverty, but man, oh man, it's not it's not anywhere close to what we you know to what we think.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: So no, I I I don't think anything that I've seen correct currently in the in the agriculture agenda from either Brooke Rollins or Trump is um is going to move the needle.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: So we're about out of time, but I want to I'd love to ask that last question.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: What do you think Massey's gonna do now?
55:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, he's got he's got uh what six and a half more months in office, and um I'm hoping um that that they will actually pass the farm bill with the Prime Act in it.
55:39
SPEAKER_01: And if that goes in, that will be his his legacy.
55:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:44
SPEAKER_01: And it will be worthwhile because it will be the first time in since 1968 that an American can buy a ribeye steak without a bureaucrat um giving permission.
56:01
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
56:02
SPEAKER_01: That's a big deal.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: That's a big deal.
56:03
SPEAKER_01: That's a really big deal.
56:05
SPEAKER_00: That would be a nice send-off.
56:06
SPEAKER_01: It would be, it would be a nice send-off.
56:08
SPEAKER_01: And he actually told me, he says, he says I'm torn, he said, I gotta vote for it, but but you know, it's still got the Save Our Bacon Act, which makes it illegal for California to prohibit uh um farrowing crate grown pigs.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: He said, but he said, I I I got I gotta I gotta go with the Prime Act.
56:26
SPEAKER_01: And so I I get it.
56:27
SPEAKER_01: I I I totally I totally get his his position.
56:31
SPEAKER_01: Um But there's a lot of uh there's a lot of push for him to run for governor, that he would actually do better it as an executive than as a committee member.
56:40
SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a lot of truth in that.
56:43
SPEAKER_01: Um but but I'll tell you, somehow, somehow he's got to get his message that I mean there's not a better fighter than Massey.
56:56
SPEAKER_01: And so it's what you're fighting for.
56:59
SPEAKER_01: So I think if I were running his campaign, I would I would present him as a fighter, as a warrior for what really matters, and and just create that kind of messaging because I think I think he's gonna have to overcome this this uh this prejudice that he doesn't wanna he doesn't want to fight Iran.
57:29
SPEAKER_01: And uh so yeah, that's where I am.
57:32
SPEAKER_01: I I yeah he's young, um he's got a lot of good stuff in him.
57:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't think he's done.
57:40
SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna look forward to seeing what his next uh his next iteration is.
57:45
SPEAKER_00: I hope he's not done.
57:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
57:47
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you'll be his uh campaign advisor.
57:51
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
57:52
SPEAKER_01: I you know, I I I do think I do think that um that it's a real uh stretch, no pun intended, to to bridge these things.
58:10
SPEAKER_01: These things are hard to bridge.
58:12
SPEAKER_01: And people, you know, with TikTok and social media culture, it's just it's so quick to stereotype, to pigeonhole.
58:21
SPEAKER_01: People wanna, where are you on this?
58:23
SPEAKER_01: You're it in or you're out, you know, uh Project Runway.
58:26
SPEAKER_01: You're out! Yeah, you're you're in, you know, uh, what's her name?
58:29
SPEAKER_01: The the the uh Kuhn, um you know, the German uh fashion lady.
58:35
SPEAKER_01: Um anyway, um it's just hard, it's hard to present the nuance of of things.
58:48
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I've been I've been accused, I or I've been told that I'm a socialist, a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, a constitutionalist.
59:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, it just depends on what the issue is, what given day it is.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: And um and and I I think that's where Massey is.
59:11
SPEAKER_01: And and somehow getting people to stop long enough to actually think things through in a society that only um you know 35% of us have even read the Declaration of Independence, that's a hard thing.
59:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a hard thing.
59:30
SPEAKER_01: So I wish him well, I I I just love the man to death and um and I look forward to some good things out of him in the in the future.
59:41
SPEAKER_00: All right, community question.
59:43
SPEAKER_01: So community question, so a question could be um do you watch WWE?
1:00:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh and if you do, do you think it's real?
1:00:05
SPEAKER_01: Hulk Hogan, the whole bunch.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_01: Um I I'm sure, I'm sure we've irritated some people with that discussion, Zena, but um, but I hope folks will let us let us explore these things.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_01: And I'm the first say I don't have all the answers.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_01: I I don't, you know, I don't know all the things, but I do I do look at things with a little bit of um eclectic experience now, having been in so many different places and cultures and things and met so many people around the world.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: And um and it it it does it does color you.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_01: It does color you when you when you encounter people from a humble perspective and ask, um, how can I how can I help?
1:00:50
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being with us, everybody, on another episode of Beyond Labels, and we'll look forward to being with you again next week.