Latest / The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen / 486 - How Does Self Love and Patriarchy Work Together? Mia from Việt Boss Babe

Transcript

486 - How Does Self Love and Patriarchy Work Together? Mia from Việt Boss Babe · The Vietnamese with Kenneth Nguyen

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not too old.
0:29
[SPEAKER_03]: the men, right?
0:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's why we have this special series with Kenneth.
0:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I feel very honored to be participating in this conversation because probably I'm one of those guys from previous generation who violates a lot of these modern day ways of thinking about progressive, you know, I'll be the
0:58
[SPEAKER_01]: When I'm when I'm existing in the world, I don't think of myself as somebody who believes in that framework, but you know, as I'm going through relationships, these things pop up and I'm guilty of the being part of the patriarchy and I think that this is a very worthy topic and I really appreciate you engaging with me on this topic.
1:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Amazing, well, I'm glad to also be a guest host on the Vietnamese podcast for our special series.
1:30
[SPEAKER_03]: So for this series, we're going to be very honest about Vietnamese men, how Vietnamese women receive it, and we explore these kind of conversations in a couple of series, right?
1:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Two host, one questions that we keep asking back to is, that's your ability in the modern time for Vietnamese.
1:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I would kick us off right away and our best at one where we explore Nanon Faite who taught Vietnamese men how to be men.
2:01
[SPEAKER_03]: So I know that from my Vietnamese men in my life growing up people
2:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that was like just sort of the basic framework of being a man, right, like you can't show your emotions.
2:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm glad that you started with that question, because that question really is the the soul of I think,
2:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Asian, even American patriarchy, patriarchy in general is all about boys don't cry.
2:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's a very sharp start for you to bring up is that boys don't cry.
2:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That really talks about how we suppress our emotions.
2:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that
2:51
[SPEAKER_01]: When I think about my military experience, I'm like, oh, we shouldn't be crying.
2:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why the previous generations fought battles and wars and they didn't cry, they were tough men and they supported their wives and their family.
3:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do we need to change that now?
3:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Is the question, why do men need to explore their emotions?
3:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a valid question.
3:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, vulnerability is power these days, right?
3:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's uncharted territories for Vietnamese men.
3:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And also for many Vietnamese women, I don't think we talk a lot about emotions because there's always a imbalance power dynamic when you show too much emotions, right?
3:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
3:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Perceived so.
3:37
[SPEAKER_03]: So look, start with, let's go back.
3:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what does it mean to being a Vietnamese man
3:46
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think the real, and this goes for a lot of culture, not just Vietnamese, but since we are in the Vietnamese framework, I think it goes back to providing.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You provide money, financial resources, power.
4:01
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to make sure that you protect your family.
4:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to be physically able to do all that.
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that expectation seeps through all of the emotional barriers that we carry as a society.
4:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And it started, I think, in Vietnam,
4:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, hundreds of years ago, you know, and I think that's the expectation for a lot of men and a lot of cultures is be quiet, but you're head down and grind and provide for your family.
4:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and but it's interesting that.
4:40
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost mutually exclusive like being emotional and showing your expressing your emotion.
4:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Whether it's through love, through care, it's almost like you can't show that part of you and being a provider and being a protector, right?
5:01
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like the connotations that these two worlds can exist at once.
5:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a great point and let's break this is a really good one.
5:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really interesting that you you say that it can exist at the same time and it really can't.
5:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's figure out a way to create like a line in the sand to address this why it can't exist.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: theoretically on the same page.
5:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I are the same space because I think traditionally if you bear your emotions and you tell your partner or your family how scared, how vulnerable, how weak you feel,
5:40
[SPEAKER_01]: might rock the foundation a little bit.
5:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody wants to feel that discomfort.
5:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Your wife doesn't want to feel that your kids don't want your your little brothers and your little sisters and your in your ecosystem.
5:53
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't want to feel that your your workers, your employees don't want to feel with their like, wait, you're the man, you should be in charge here.
6:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are
6:08
[SPEAKER_01]: your authentic self should not be here right now, tough enough.
6:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're we're looking at you to provide our food on the table.
6:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you making us worried?
6:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you bringing your mental health into our world when you are supposed to be the provider?
6:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And we as children of the father or the wife of the man, there's other roles and responsibilities.
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: definitely we don't want to hear how weak you are.
6:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the the thing that perhaps we should talk about is that expectation that as a man, as a boy growing up, the minute somebody around does feel like um scared that we're scared.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the problem.
6:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're telling me now that this is almost like it came from the women or like from the you know from like let's like like there's a narrow blaming was told blaming you
7:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's like, there's like, um, like, who told you that, right?
7:20
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, I mean, I'm curious to you because it's so built into our culture that I've been told me that other, you know, my own goals.
7:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the whole system is predicated on.
7:34
[SPEAKER_01]: this idea of toughness.
7:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think when we're defining this right now when we're talking about how vulnerable and how authentic and weak and in all of these attributes of a man that we should also talk about like why does it make, I'm not blaming the women and children.
7:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying that there's an expectation to be the foundation, the solid foundation that does
8:04
[SPEAKER_01]: in the last few years where my partners, the women were like, wait, why are you telling me you know that you are lost, that you don't know what you're doing, that you're confused.
8:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's go figure that out.
8:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not, that's not me.
8:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So then I'm not blaming the women, but I'm like, well, clearly this is my issue that I have to define and have to figure out.
8:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think we kind of have to figure out what's acceptable, what's not acceptable in the modern times for how vulnerable.
8:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the thing is not stressing your partner out, as a man is something that's very important.
8:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, go figure it out, go make me not worry about the finance, you're, oh, and another thing, it's like, those partners that I've had are like, all strong women, and they're like, wait, we make the money to like, this is the modern age, like, why are you coming to me with, you know, so there's, there's all that yeah, yeah, because.
9:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Now like historically the script was you are the provider and take care of the emotional right 100% 100% contributions, but that's how we contribute this you provide you to care of the career and the
9:33
[SPEAKER_03]: food on the table and an outtake care of domestic management, maybe even like how like a family wealth management is usually to women, right?
9:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Like the man came and bringing the money, the women fix it and like manage it and we take care of.
9:50
[SPEAKER_03]: like a family and so on.
9:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And now there's a bit of a shake in that dynamic because the work distribution, like I can bring in the money now.
10:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
10:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
10:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of women, like Vietnamese women, we bring in even more money sometimes on the man.
10:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And that makes you that makes the value of the man get questions like, okay, so then what do I bring to the table?
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: It's shifting, you know, I had a lunch with a Norwegian family yesterday, Vietnamese, that, um, my God, this is mind blowing to me.
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: They brought up this, he's a doctor and I met this like crew of doctors, they reached out and I, I hosted like virtually on, they brought me into talk about Vietnamese, you know.
10:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So they, one of the doctors came to LA and asked to have lunch and I had lunch and he said
10:48
[SPEAKER_01]: in Norway is 99% women now.
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: There's, he goes, there was one class that did not have we on one man as a medical student becoming a doctor.
11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about the implications of that.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what is happening?
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: We were maybe 50 years ago, it was like 100% men that were in medical suicide.
11:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Norway is one of those countries that are leading the sort of like the charge with progressive ways of looking at patriarchy and equality and all of that.
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're leading the way, imagine what's happening in the US and Vietnam and all these other countries 10, 20 years down the road.
11:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Men somehow are being left behind and that's a fact.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: that men are being left behind because the quality, the movement for women to, and I think that that's something that hasn't been calibrated with society, both in Vietnam and in America.
11:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So then what is left for like where are the Vietnamese man now with this shift?
11:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I know like I think North American like there's a North American like like that conversation is coming out right may well only as may a regression like there's path and but what are the Vietnamese man like.
12:11
[SPEAKER_03]: how are you, how are you guys dealing with this?
12:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, me, that is exactly why we're here today.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's confusion, there's mass confusion.
12:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's why, like in America, the Manisfier is such a big thing now, you know, then they're trying to figure out
12:29
[SPEAKER_01]: where they belong, and it's these trad wives, you know, like all of these topics, you know, and I just want to say that I think you and I got together to do this, these sub-series because I would like to open this up to a live conversation at one point.
12:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to plug it here that we talked about that in detail.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to see if we can bring this to a live platform and stream live stream and accept colors and stuff.
13:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know.
13:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I'm here for.
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm confused about all of this too.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm open and I'm very progressive and I want to see
13:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to see people happy.
13:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that with men, social media, porn, video games, the lack of sports, the lack of alcohol, like men aren't drinking as much.
13:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds so funny that, you know, if you don't have alcohol as a lubricant and if you have porn, then you completely cut off the drive for a man to approach women.
13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: both online and in person at a club.
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, clubs are dying too.
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like all these things, but society is changing so rapidly that I think this conversation is super important.
13:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it's compounding with Vietnamese Americans or Vietnamese in the diaspora.
13:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, do you bring up all these really good topics that, yeah, we can really get through it.
14:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So many things, so let's dive into what?
14:12
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
14:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Where do we have in start?
14:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we can go back.
14:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We can go back to what you brought up earlier about.
14:23
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, so there's that expectation about communication, right?
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's, I said something about having a line
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I think men should be able to speak freely, but at the same time not worry their partner.
14:46
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the key.
14:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
14:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And you think that when you express sadness or hey, I'm struggling.
14:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, I need help.
15:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Has it been like an instant feedback or is there something like this in your head about like how that will be perceived you know like have you tried that before and like how does your partner really like previous part of my yeah or like is it something that like because you've been so condition or taught like that that you just never even consider us and
15:21
[SPEAKER_03]: as an option to express your struggles, because how I receive or, you know, as like a daughter, as a sister, as, you know, a female friend in the Vietnamese world, like,
15:37
[SPEAKER_03]: It's often being communicated in like anger or like avoidance, right?
15:43
[SPEAKER_03]: It like it comes out in like other vices.
15:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Instead of you just telling me like can you just tell me that you're struggling?
15:49
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we can have a conversation about it.
15:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like maybe we can come from.
15:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe I should bring my exes on this show.
15:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So they can explain like, you know, you know,
16:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't think that I can give the honest version of that, right?
16:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like in my head, I'm like trying to like, okay, let me reconstruct what I would dialogue I had with my exes, but I think it's not one person.
16:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's several people that have said, no, no, no, get your fucking act together, get it together and don't bother me with the details.
16:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you need, yeah, you need to figure this out.
16:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a grown man, this is like literally what so don't bring it to me don't bring it to me.
16:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So so now that gets
16:39
[SPEAKER_01]: cemented in my masculinity, it gets bruised.
16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not the only one.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm sure this is a lot of men know before they open up their mouth.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: That expectation is like shut up, get, get to work, go find money and do not come to me with this VS.
17:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you are jobbing just to take care of me.
17:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
17:08
[SPEAKER_01]: But because the women that I've dated or have been with are all people who make a lot of money.
17:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So as an artist, there's no way that I can compete in the in the bracket.
17:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in that income bracket.
17:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's something I have to
17:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I can't be so open and honest about this right now, but it's tough topic.
17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a tough topic for me, because as I was starting the podcast journey, the media journey for me, I had to let go of the business side.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I had factories, both in LA and Vietnam, restaurants, literally operational.
17:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I was making good money during the years that I made a lot of money.
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I was so unhappy, and then once I decided to take this media route, I thought, you know, oh, my businesses will be able to kind of sustain themselves.
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But as the years gone on, you know, tapered downward, didn't make the money.
18:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I had to deal with multiple partners throughout those years, um, you know, romantic partners that was watching that kind of like that journey of doing doing finances.
18:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I,
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I just couldn't go back to work in a traditional business way, you know, yeah.
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, there's expectations and the partners I had were older to, they weren't coming from a younger generation, they were older.
18:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So that expectation, you know, like it or not.
18:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you can't have it what both ways you can't yeah, yeah, because I think in my mind it's more it's like
19:02
[SPEAKER_03]: If I can take care of myself like this and I'm educated, I make money, I can fund all my, you know, self care ventures, I don't really need a man to take me out to restaurants anymore or do ventravel and stuff like then the questions like okay, then like
19:26
[SPEAKER_03]: your values in providing is not like I don't need that, right?
19:33
[SPEAKER_03]: But what I do need is like like a partner who's emotionally intelligent and you do live with etc.
19:40
[SPEAKER_03]: But then that comes with like the expectations that your EQ needs to be at the same level as mine.
19:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And as we know like
19:50
[SPEAKER_03]: women are spraying a usually more like mature on the EQ side and just like more mature and general than like the like their male counterpart at the same age, right?
20:05
[SPEAKER_03]: 100%.
20:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I also really hard for me to like you have these expectations when biologically I know that like they might not
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, and now you throw in the financial factor in two, that would throw things off, too.
20:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So I really applaud young couples that are making it work today.
20:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a miracle that, you know, young people,
20:34
[SPEAKER_01]: can deal with this dynamic.
20:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's beautiful.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I'm always the guy in my group that encourages, you know, people, whether they're homosexual or heterosexuals to always get together, right?
20:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's always.
20:49
[SPEAKER_01]: me that pushes for the romantic, you know, people to get together because I believe in it.
20:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe that when we get together as, um, as people, I think we learn a lot from each other, uh, whether it's, you know, mandating men, women dating women and opposites getting together, I think when there's a lot of you, you sacrifice and you, you learn a lot.
21:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's even,
21:12
[SPEAKER_01]: a bigger privilege and honor to be in relationships today than it was 20, 30 years ago because of all of the complicated things that come up in relationships.
21:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
21:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
21:25
[SPEAKER_03]: So then how are Vietnamese men?
21:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess.
21:30
[SPEAKER_03]: catching up with this, like, this changing in, I don't think we are relationship needs or identity needs.
21:38
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just like, we'll save the dating.
21:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to save the dating in like a whole episode.
21:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's like a whole bucket.
21:43
[SPEAKER_03]: But she's like in expectations and like, are there resources that you guys were reaching out to?
21:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, who do you talk to, to, you know?
21:55
[SPEAKER_03]: in when there's a change in expectations of you and, you know, the tools have not been built yet.
22:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Great question.
22:07
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my advice.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: fine young men.
22:10
[SPEAKER_01]: As an old guy, you know, I'm 50.
22:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The guys that have really walked me through this is not the older guys.
22:18
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the younger guys.
22:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The 35 year old, the 24 year old guys that have really sat me down and said, hey, I know this is not the way it works, man.
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to see it from their point of view.
22:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to see it.
22:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to change and transform.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It has to come from the younger men.
22:35
[SPEAKER_01]: The younger men, and you know, I recently did a clip about this.
22:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We as children,
22:44
[SPEAKER_01]: brought into the world to really teach our parents how to become better people.
22:48
[SPEAKER_01]: The same thing is like the younger men are there as my friends to allow me to become better, a better human being.
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think when we are able to open it up to have, these old people,
23:03
[SPEAKER_01]: forty-fifty-year-old get older.
23:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to hang out with the thirty-year-old women and men.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, for me to hang out with you, Mia is a challenge because I have to see and have to really tune into what you're saying, right, to become a better human being.
23:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my advice.
23:24
[SPEAKER_03]: The conversations are different.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally different.
23:27
[SPEAKER_01]: The expectations are different.
23:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you could train with a young person, if you can train your emotional EQ side with a young person like a mea from Vietboss Maves or some of my guy friends who are like best friends of mine, they're 35, 35-year-old chefs, they're 35-year-old filmmakers, you know?
23:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are the guys that teach me then and you can't look at the dynamics that you're in the same way.
23:50
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a totally different world.
23:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
23:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
23:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I also know that, like, with male friendship dynamic, like, to talk by emotion is very rare.
24:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, where do you even start, right?
24:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Start with the young guy.
24:08
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my advice.
24:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And so don't go.
24:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Questions do you bring up to talk about these, like, what do you, why, where would you start?
24:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, hey, I have this, like, you know,
24:18
[SPEAKER_03]: But, Gen Z, friend, guy, friend, where do you, where does the conversation start?
24:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I would just be honest, I'm like, you know, like, hey, I don't make as much money as my, my partner, or my female, my woman partner, and I, I feel so insecure about that.
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what's your thoughts in this, man?
24:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's a new world, and I feel,
24:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel left behind.
24:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, these are like honest conversations that I have with my friends, you know?
24:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm an artist, you know, they're in nine to five jobs that are secure, that have benefits, you know?
24:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And here I am out here, you know, struggling, because I love what I do so much, you know, making, you know, podcasts and content.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I how do I deal with this on your emotional level and then you know if you can afford it you got to go to therapy You know therapy really helps you walk through this stuff and and really deal with the the shadow work that that you're having to deal with Yeah, so
25:18
[SPEAKER_03]: when you have, so I just, let's assume that, you know, a 40 year or like, you know, a guy of Vietnamese guys, like listening to our conversation right now, right?
25:31
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, he's looking for that, like, friend, and he might not have no where a conversation comes from.
25:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So,
25:39
[SPEAKER_03]: for you or for your guy friends, if money is no longer the main values that or financial security is not the main values that you bring to the table, then like what what values do you feel like you are contributing to?
25:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
26:01
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question.
26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: that the values we bring is just really human connection.
26:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And you just gotta be thankful that women are still into men, right?
26:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
26:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You just have to be thankful and have gratitude that, oh my god, women still want to be to men.
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, still want me.
26:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And they don't care about the financial side.
26:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So we just gotta be able to deal with being a complete and a whole person that we have to be able to love ourselves.
26:34
[SPEAKER_01]: because when we love ourselves, women will see that.
26:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it goes for women as well.
26:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when women love themselves, men see that too.
26:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And that whole confidence thing is really the currency that we're dealing with today.
26:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the currency of loving yourself is such a
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: a huge thing, that's what I'm learning as I'm talking to different people in the realm of relationships is how much love do you have for yourself?
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds so different 30 years ago as a Christian or a Catholic or Buddhist, right?
27:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the new world is really about, like if you don't love yourself, then how could you love the people around you?
27:18
[SPEAKER_01]: How could you understand?
27:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of truth to that.
27:20
[SPEAKER_01]: The more I live in the modern world now, I find that if you don't like yourself, it's very difficult to like your partner.
27:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what are some of the examples of self-love?
27:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I feel like for someone who might be at the early stage
27:45
[SPEAKER_03]: of discovering or going through these questions, right?
27:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Like self-love, EQ, like all these buzz words, right?
27:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
27:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I first started going through this journey.
27:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what that means or like what does that look like, right?
28:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Like let's like can we get given example of, you know, if a man, like if you're like, okay, like, you know,
28:09
[SPEAKER_03]: like, let's get, like, how can, how can a Kevin win?
28:16
[SPEAKER_03]: For example,
28:19
[SPEAKER_03]: start that journey of self love like where does it start?
28:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Does it start with journaling?
28:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Does it start with looking yourself in the mirror?
28:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Every day and be like you got this or does it go start with, let's go to the gym because then you will feel more content.
28:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's four things.
28:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Four things you just mentioned are all necessary.
28:35
[SPEAKER_01]: My God.
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you've done the work.
28:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You just literally mentioned the four things and I don't know if you like every her step, but those are the four things that.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: You should be doing meditation, journaling, hitting the gym and looking in the mirror for affirmations.
28:50
[SPEAKER_01]: These are very, very like foundational things that young men should be doing and older guys should be doing as well.
28:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when you literally listen to the four things that I was going to say, um,
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason is this, if you've never done any of those things, if you don't go to the gym, you don't journal, you don't look in the mirror, you do affirmations, if you don't do these things, when you are around people, not just women, when you're around your guy friends, your girlfriends, your mom, you have to pay attention to what you're saying, because the words that come out, there's a detection system in other people that can hear the insecurity.
29:31
[SPEAKER_01]: the lack of love that you have for yourself.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is a turnoff.
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think when you are getting that turnoff feedback loop in society daily, you start to withdraw and you start to like not have confidence, no matter how many degrees you got, no matter how much money you got in the bag, no matter what kind of car you think you, you know, how valuable you think your car is worth
30:02
[SPEAKER_01]: loving yourself everywhere you go.
30:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a turn off.
30:05
[SPEAKER_01]: How do I know that?
30:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I went through that.
30:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can continue to go through that.
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's programmed in my mind how little self-worth I have.
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have like daily have to struggle with
30:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going up at 430 in the morning, 5 o'clock, going to the gym as much as I can doing the affirmations while I'm in the gym in between sets, looking in the mirror at the gym, telling myself things and then journaling and really talking about these things to myself and saying, you know what, I'm worth more than I was programmed to be.
30:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And this Vietnamese families that,
30:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
30:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
30:52
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just so hard because like on one hand you are trying to like I think these are really tactical things that people can take away from is like where do I where does the self-leaf journey begins and then it sounds like they're still that other side which is there's not a lot of safe space it sounds like for you to even be vulnerable like because it's
31:18
[SPEAKER_03]: We're telling men, you go do better.
31:21
[SPEAKER_03]: You become more vulnerable.
31:23
[SPEAKER_03]: But then on the other hand, it's like, oh, but not too vulnerable.
31:26
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want that.
31:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to care of you.
31:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you take care of yourself because you're inconvenient.
31:31
[SPEAKER_03]: They have to take care of you.
31:33
[SPEAKER_03]: So then it doesn't say, leave a lot of safe space for like, for a Vietnamese men to kind of like grow into, right?
31:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate to say this, but you gotta find out one or two guys.
31:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to find the one or two dudes, because I have like one or two guys.
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just recently figured out in the last five years that the two, one or two guys, have to love you unconditionally.
32:00
[SPEAKER_01]: They have to love you like they love themselves.
32:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because once you find those two, three guys,
32:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know that you can government them and they will make you feel safe, always loved, they tell you they miss you, they tell you how much they love you after every phone call they're like, I love you man.
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like in good times and bad times with these guys.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I have guys that.
32:25
[SPEAKER_01]: that I talk to and it's always like, I love you, man, and there's no conditions.
32:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just unconditional up.
32:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to find those guys to have.
32:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I so I think that's very important to find men that are younger that have that like total love for you, even though they see your flaws, they understand your flaws and know you're some old guy who doesn't get it.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're just invested in like being a part of your life and they want to be around you.
32:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's like
32:54
[SPEAKER_01]: a lot of gold to have that.
32:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I want to shut out to my guys that that are and you guys know who you are.
32:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to name people and then other guys feel shut out.
33:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I, yeah, I have those guys that are in my life.
33:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
33:10
[SPEAKER_01]: That do that and really point the truth out to me, you know, and full of those guys.
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyhow, that, that you need that.
33:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You need that calibration with, um, with young men who can
33:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and how can women in your life help with this?
33:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I can't speak for the women in my life, you know?
33:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I've broken a lot of trust with the, you know, I've learned that women in my life need to be seen by me.
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like the most, for me, my experience is like being,
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: being guilty of not seeing women and being invisible.
34:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that that's the hardest thing is like my mother, my daughter, like my really close women friends, saying, you know, you don't see us.
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's even in relationships, I haven't been able to see my partners
34:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a big thing that I have to change, I think about.
34:30
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, hey, why don't you have enough women guests on your show?
34:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are there just all these guys?
34:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
34:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I've gotten that.
34:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's hard.
34:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's super hard.
34:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's, you know, from a patriarchal viewpoint, it's so ingrained how comfortable being around other men are and not seeing women.
34:50
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I think that's the first step is to remind us to see.
34:55
[SPEAKER_01]: to make women more visible in our mind.
34:59
[SPEAKER_01]: We step into a room, don't say hi to the men, go straight to the women and tap up the women.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: High five women come in and say hello to the women first.
35:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's very uncomfortable for me.
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you know, this is totally a race.
35:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, yes, so because I was raised
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people can understand this from Vietnam too is like, you don't want to be perceived as somebody who is trying to be around women and hitting on women, right?
35:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:34
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't separate that, that way to men, women can just be friends.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Women are just human beings like other guys are.
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why do you have to think that if you roll up to a group of wives in the group,
35:49
[SPEAKER_01]: that they're going to be feeling threatened that you're trying to pick them up.
35:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You've known them for 10, 15 years.
35:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Why does that still?
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is that still an issue in my mind?
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Still to this day when I roll up in my group of friends and I rub to the women first, it's so uncomfortable.
36:05
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's something that I have to do.
36:08
[SPEAKER_03]: do people feel like the other people in the room feel that and comfort, discover like that's just out of the norm.
36:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I guess like for me, like with people in my like the 20s, the 30s, like it's just, I guess we don't have that.
36:24
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't.
36:24
[SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting for you to hear that.
36:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like it's just like I feel like it's quite normal.
36:29
[SPEAKER_03]: A little bit more normal.
36:31
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
36:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And my young guy friends taught me that.
36:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I do?
36:36
[SPEAKER_01]: What is going on and can you know I've been called out for that like you don't see the women in the group You know the five or six women you never go over it to the dinner table and and Dap them up and and yeah And I'm like oh my god, do like do you guys know like in the 90s when we were growing up as men
36:53
[SPEAKER_01]: The gang units, you know, the gang affiliations, the gang adjacency that I grew up.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not, was never gang member.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I just had friends who were gang members and I would be called over to their parties and the garages.
37:06
[SPEAKER_01]: The women would stand in one group in the guys who'd send and then you don't know who's dating who.
37:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You would never go over and say hello to the women.
37:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Ever, throughout the entire party, you wouldn't do it.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Just you don't do that.
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And every the world worked that way.
37:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just like perfect that way.
37:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So that kind of conditioning follows Vietnamese American men.
37:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think in Vietnam too, you can see the separation.
37:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And you just don't go over to a group of women.
37:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think when I started the podcast journey and I started to get a little bit more popular.
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think maybe that they're like, oh, you're too good for
37:46
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
37:47
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always been there.
37:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It was never like because I got in the media game.
37:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It was always in there.
37:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I would never go over to a group of women and say hello.
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was never able to explain this to anybody.
37:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So the young guys were like, just like, yeah, you don't even see them.
38:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to go over.
38:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's this crazy me up.
38:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of my friends take the wives out.
38:08
[SPEAKER_01]: The guy got the young guys would take one or two of the women out for drinks.
38:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, that is mind blowing to me, you can't do that.
38:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you can't just like, and then they're like, why would friends, we're friends?
38:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Why can't you do that?
38:24
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a new day and age.
38:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, that's not how I grew up at all.
38:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, it's uncomfortable.
38:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's comfortable for me now to even call just to check in and say, yo, how are you to one of the wives of the girlfriends or the women in the group?
38:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the most uncomfortable feeling, but I think that's part of the growth of,
38:42
[SPEAKER_01]: breaking the patriarchy.
38:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, counterintuitive.
38:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and you still feel like we're about at some point.
38:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally.
38:51
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like feels abnormal.
38:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that's where I think the growth happens.
38:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when I was hanging out in New York with you in cookie, like I have to like remind myself like, okay, they are human beings.
39:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I can go over there and talk to me.
39:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah,
39:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Like women, you know, like you work with so many of them, like in some of your like colleagues or your teams like, yeah, I think that's so interesting to have you go through a like a mental prep.
39:24
[SPEAKER_03]: be like, oh, like, they're right.
39:27
[SPEAKER_03]: They're your friends.
39:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to do that.
39:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't come natural.
39:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
39:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, I think, part of the, the, the, the, the residue of patriarchy.
39:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's kicked in there on so many different levels.
39:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Not just like, oh, you know, there's expectations for men to make money.
39:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's also like these smaller details that keep us and prevent us from,
39:48
[SPEAKER_01]: really connecting as a human being, right?
39:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have to like really remind myself that, okay, I gotta go over talk to Mia and Cookie.
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to like be a part and be present with them and not think that, you know, because you guys are beautiful women.
40:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And like in my mind, it's just like, you don't want, yeah, it's a sickness, right?
40:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you don't want to like sing like, you don't want other, it's optics too, right?
40:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you don't want other people to think, oh, you know, he's just hanging out with young, beautiful women.
40:16
[SPEAKER_01]: No, these are people that I had on the podcast.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: These are me as somebody I work with, right?
40:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, these are colleagues of mine in the podcast world.
40:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, these are professional relationships.
40:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But even still, I have to like remind myself that I have to break these barriers and show other men of my generation that, no, no, no, no.
40:39
[SPEAKER_01]: We can,
40:40
[SPEAKER_01]: totally be friends with people and not be slime balls and portray that way.
40:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a weird thing.
40:48
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a weird thing.
40:51
[SPEAKER_03]: The old questions of can women and men be friends, right?
40:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they can of course they can.
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they can.
41:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course they can.
41:04
[SPEAKER_01]: They should be friends.
41:07
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's, you know, it's when it gets weird is when, you know, a guy would call the girl like one on one, hey, you know, let's hang out what not of course becomes weird but like for social setting like what I'm describing in New York with hanging out with all the women of that weekend.
41:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when it gets to be like I have to train myself and condition myself to like be like, you know.
41:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like this is okay.
41:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You can do this is okay.
41:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is okay.
41:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not a dirt bag, you know, um, yeah, it's the weirdest thing.
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Just be present with another human being, you know.
41:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, wow.
41:50
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like, I've never really thought about that in that way.
41:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I think, I guess it grew up in like a different, you know, time or like becoming, uh, you know, yeah, and like all so are my peers like grow up in a different time.
42:04
[SPEAKER_03]: But like it's still, it's like a different
42:08
[SPEAKER_03]: problem.
42:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's like, we, like, women and men can be friends in the world that I grew up in, but then it's like, but then it's a different expectation.
42:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, is a different problem of like, oh, like, why can't you just be better?
42:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, why can you do this, right?
42:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you why can you and to save my needs?
42:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, even to, like, friends, like, you know, like, there's a level of, like,
42:35
[SPEAKER_03]: I still think, why can't you, like, catch up and be where I'm at, right?
42:40
[SPEAKER_03]: But of course, like, it comes through, like, more, a bit more, like, gentle, where, like, okay, let's, like, coach you through this.
42:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's have you, like, you know, my, you know, get a guy friends to talk about, what, you come uncomfortable with, and et cetera.
42:55
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's a little bit of like a drag, I'm like, I have to, like, take you along with me when I just trying to be my own person.
43:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's some handholding there.
43:08
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of handholding.
43:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, handholding, the terms that we, like the recent terms, it's mothering, there's a lot of mothering that happens, and it's like it's exhausting, but then also like if you don't do that, then they're going to be left behind.
43:25
[SPEAKER_03]: So, where's the balance?
43:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
43:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a huge problem, and I think that, um,
43:35
[SPEAKER_01]: this whole idea now of men being able to be vulnerable and I don't even know, is that entirely a good thing?
43:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know, because that's, I live in the past, I live in historically how patriarchy should function.
43:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was order in that, that's the thing.
43:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:00
[SPEAKER_01]: people of my generation see order in the way that things that it used to be and to be progressive to be a little bit more liberal with our patterns takes a lot of work to be okay and to adapt to it.
44:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But then it's like if I adapt too much, then
44:26
[SPEAKER_01]: the complaining, the being vulnerable, being open.
44:29
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a turn off to women too, right?
44:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And so where, like you asked that in the very beginning, where is the line?
44:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
44:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's going to be an ongoing conversation that we have.
44:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's being drawn right now, as we grow up in this world, yeah.
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we might have to bring on some guests as we move on, which is maybe bring in a therapist, you know, I've been wanting to talk to you about that.
45:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I have some ideas to have maybe like inhale in in how therapists on our show.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So the three of us can.
45:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's, yeah, that'd be really cool.
45:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Two guys and a woman is sort of like the basis for a lot of successful radio shows and podcasts because it's, you know, and I think having a therapist or a doctor can really illuminate some of the questions that we have.
45:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You and I are coming from a very inquisitive places that like right now, it just shows that we don't know a whole lot of those asking questions.
45:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:40
[SPEAKER_02]: These guys question.
45:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
45:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
45:43
[SPEAKER_01]: These people are, you know, living these, you know, they're basically the trash can for society, you know, they're like, I'm having data.
45:53
[SPEAKER_01]: and you call it date, I call it trash.
45:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because I've talked to these psychologists and psychiatrists and they're like, because I've been wanting all my life.
46:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I, one of the fantasies has become a therapist, right?
46:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, can't know, you sure you want to be the trash bin for like society.
46:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, stick to podcasting.
46:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like we have to like, hum rack, right?
46:17
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to take, yeah.
46:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
46:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Having with these people, we talked to for data would be very interesting and I think there's textbook, you know, programs that they've studied and yeah, but I think our job for the next few episodes is to really open up these questions and maybe codify what we're asking and one of the
46:50
[SPEAKER_01]: that is a huge topic in America and in Vietnam soon, it's going to be like a nasty battlefield of men just like being left behind.
47:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, that's a whole thing.
47:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Like Vietnam right now and male identity, like in Vietnam.
47:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what I'm about like North America, just like in Vietnam.
47:13
[SPEAKER_03]: It's
47:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a hot mess because it's like we're living as the shifting worlds where the old values, the new values, and more, and the Western values, Eastern, they're all kind of coming into Vietnam because we're so Vietnam as a country is so open right now.
47:34
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of like we're going through identity crisis.
47:37
[SPEAKER_03]: But the family function is
47:39
[SPEAKER_03]: is going through family crisis.
47:41
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going through crisis.
47:43
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, well, that's it for our first episode.
47:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful.
47:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
47:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:50
[SPEAKER_01]: This is great.
47:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, if you all have any questions or comments, please leave them in the questions, uh, you know, in the comment section.
47:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And we will love to, um, I, you know, we love to identify more questions and kind of like, um, go through more, um, ideas as we were, you know, going to the sub series.
48:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm.
48:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's it.
48:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much for
48:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, everybody.
48:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to The Vietnamese with Kenneth Wynne.
48:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Special thanks to Brittany Tran, to Jane Wynne, Catherine Wynne, Tina Fam, Sydney Jamie, and Crystal Tran.
48:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Please find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at The Vietnamese Podcast.