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Deciphering Risk in Private Credit Markets · Views from 6,230

• 0:01
  Welcome
• 0:02
  to
• 0:02
  the
• 0:02
  Adjusted
• 0:03
  for
• 0:03
  Risk
• 0:03
  Podcast.
• 0:04
  Join
• 0:05
  myself,
• 0:06
  Brian
• 0:06
  Nauman
• 0:07
  as
• 0:07
  I
• 0:07
  talk
• 0:07
  market
• 0:08
  investment
• 0:09
  economic.
• 0:09
  Let's
• 0:09
  get
• 0:09
  started
• 0:10
  in
• 0:10
  life
• 0:11
  as
• 0:11
  I
• 0:11
  help
• 0:11
  prepare
• 0:12
  you
• 0:12
  for
• 0:12
  the
• 0:12
  upcoming
• 0:13
  week
• 0:13
  in
• 0:14
  markets.
• 0:15
  I
• 0:15
  work
• 0:16
  for
• 0:16
  Zephyr
• 0:16
  in
• 0:17
  all
• 0:17
  of
• 0:17
  express.
• 0:18
  Self
• 0:19
  in
• 0:19
  my
• 0:20
  podcast,
• 0:20
  guests
• 0:21
  are
• 0:21
  solely
• 0:21
  of
• 0:21
  their
• 0:22
  own
• 0:22
  opinions
• 0:22
  and
• 0:22
  do
• 0:23
  not
• 0:23
  reflect
• 0:23
  the
• 0:24
  opinion
• 0:24
  of
• 0:25
  Zephyr
• 0:26
  or
• 0:26
  Informa
• 0:27
  its
• 0:27
  Payers
• 0:27
  company.
• 0:28
  This
• 0:29
  podcast
• 0:30
  is
• 0:30
  for
• 0:30
  information
• 0:31
  and
• 0:31
  purposes
• 0:32
  only
• 0:32
  and
• 0:32
  should
• 0:32
  not
• 0:33
  be
• 0:33
  relied
• 0:33
  on
• 0:34
  for
• 0:34
  investment
• 0:35
  decisions.
• 0:38
  Welcome
• 0:39
  everyone
• 0:39
  to
• 0:39
  zephyr's
• 0:40
  Adjusted
• 0:40
  for
• 0:40
  Risk
• 0:41
  podcast.
• 0:42
  We
• 0:42
  are
• 0:42
  recording
• 0:43
  on
• 0:43
  location
• 0:45
  at
• 0:45
  the
• 0:45
  Exchange
• 0:46
  ETF
• 0:47
  conference.
• 0:47
  It's
• 0:48
  been
• 0:48
  a
• 0:48
  great
• 0:48
  couple
• 0:49
  of
• 0:49
  days.
• 0:49
  I've
• 0:49
  had
• 0:49
  some
• 0:50
  fantastic
• 0:51
  conversations
• 0:51
  and
• 0:52
  the
• 0:52
  next
• 0:52
  one.
• 0:52
  I'm
• 0:53
  sure
• 0:53
  is
• 0:53
  gonna
• 0:53
  be
• 0:54
  a
• 0:54
  great
• 0:54
  conversation
• 0:55
  to
• 0:56
  one
• 0:56
  that
• 0:56
  I'm
• 0:56
  really
• 0:56
  looking
• 0:57
  forward
• 0:57
  to
• 0:58
  on
• 0:58
  a
• 0:58
  very
• 0:58
  timely
• 0:59
  topic.
• 1:00
  You
• 1:00
  know,
• 1:00
  it's
• 1:01
  one
• 1:01
  of
• 1:01
  the
• 1:01
  hottest
• 1:02
  topics
• 1:02
  in
• 1:02
  the
• 1:02
  wealth
• 1:03
  and
• 1:03
  asset
• 1:03
  management
• 1:04
  space
• 1:04
  has
• 1:05
  been
• 1:05
  private
• 1:05
  credit.
• 1:06
  The
• 1:07
  asset
• 1:07
  space
• 1:07
  has
• 1:07
  grown
• 1:08
  tremendously
• 1:09
  since
• 1:10
  the
• 1:10
  great
• 1:10
  financial
• 1:11
  crisis
• 1:12
  and
• 1:12
  now
• 1:12
  it's
• 1:13
  under
• 1:13
  heavy
• 1:13
  scrutiny.
• 1:14
  Well,
• 1:15
  I
• 1:15
  have
• 1:15
  on
• 1:15
  the.
• 1:15
  Perfect
• 1:16
  guests
• 1:17
  to
• 1:17
  tell
• 1:17
  us
• 1:18
  if
• 1:18
  the
• 1:18
  concerns
• 1:19
  are
• 1:19
  warranted
• 1:20
  or
• 1:20
  not.
• 1:21
  But
• 1:21
  first,
• 1:21
  this
• 1:22
  episode
• 1:22
  is
• 1:22
  sponsored
• 1:23
  by
• 1:23
  the
• 1:23
  award-winning
• 1:24
  Zephyr,
• 1:24
  which
• 1:25
  helps
• 1:25
  investment
• 1:26
  professionals
• 1:26
  make
• 1:27
  more
• 1:27
  informed
• 1:28
  investment
• 1:28
  decisions
• 1:29
  on
• 1:29
  behalf
• 1:30
  of
• 1:30
  their
• 1:30
  clients.
• 1:31
  All
• 1:31
  right.
• 1:31
  Enough
• 1:31
  for
• 1:31
  me.
• 1:32
  I've
• 1:32
  already
• 1:32
  talked
• 1:33
  enough.
• 1:33
  Let's
• 1:34
  bring
• 1:34
  on
• 1:34
  the
• 1:34
  star
• 1:35
  of
• 1:35
  the
• 1:35
  show.
• 1:35
  I'd
• 1:36
  like
• 1:36
  to
• 1:36
  welcome
• 1:36
  Chris
• 1:37
  Getter.
• 1:38
  Chris
• 1:38
  is
• 1:39
  the
• 1:39
  managing
• 1:40
  director
• 1:40
  and
• 1:40
  portfolio
• 1:41
  manager
• 1:42
  at
• 1:42
  Simplify
• 1:43
  Asset
• 1:43
  Management.
• 1:44
  Chris,
• 1:45
  thank
• 1:45
  you
• 1:45
  so
• 1:45
  much
• 1:45
  for
• 1:46
  coming
• 1:46
  on.
• 1:46
  It's
• 1:46
  an
• 1:47
  honor
• 1:47
  to
• 1:47
  have
• 1:47
  you.
• 1:48
  I'm
• 1:48
  really
• 1:48
  excited
• 1:48
  about
• 1:49
  this
• 1:49
  conversation.
• 1:50
  Can
• 1:50
  you
• 1:50
  please
• 1:50
  tell
• 1:50
  us
• 1:50
  a
• 1:51
  little
• 1:51
  bit
• 1:51
  more
• 1:51
  about
• 1:51
  yourself
• 1:52
  and
• 1:52
  simplify
• 1:52
  asset
• 1:53
  management?
• 1:54
  Sure.
• 1:54
  Thanks
• 1:54
  for
• 1:54
  having
• 1:55
  me
• 1:55
  on,
• 1:55
  Ryan.
• 1:55
  I'm
• 1:55
  excited
• 1:55
  to
• 1:56
  be
• 1:56
  here
• 1:56
  too.
• 1:57
  Um,
• 1:57
  so
• 1:57
  I
• 1:57
  joined
• 1:58
  Simplify
• 1:58
  about
• 1:59
  two
• 1:59
  years
• 1:59
  ago
• 2:00
  and
• 2:00
  most
• 2:01
  of
• 2:01
  our
• 2:02
  focus.
• 2:03
  Is
• 2:04
  on
• 2:04
  bringing
• 2:05
  alternatives
• 2:06
  into
• 2:06
  the
• 2:07
  ETF
• 2:07
  structure.
• 2:07
  So
• 2:08
  we
• 2:08
  are
• 2:09
  taking
• 2:09
  full
• 2:09
  advantage
• 2:10
  of
• 2:10
  some
• 2:10
  of
• 2:10
  the
• 2:11
  regulatory
• 2:11
  changes
• 2:12
  that
• 2:12
  occurred
• 2:12
  just
• 2:13
  over
• 2:13
  five
• 2:13
  years
• 2:13
  ago,
• 2:14
  uh,
• 2:14
  specifically
• 2:15
  with
• 2:15
  respect
• 2:16
  to
• 2:16
  deployment
• 2:17
  of
• 2:17
  leverage
• 2:17
  utilization
• 2:18
  of
• 2:18
  derivatives
• 2:19
  in
• 2:19
  ETFs
• 2:20
  to
• 2:20
  make
• 2:21
  what
• 2:21
  would
• 2:21
  normally
• 2:22
  be
• 2:22
  strategies
• 2:23
  that
• 2:23
  are
• 2:24
  restricted
• 2:24
  to
• 2:25
  institutional
• 2:25
  investors
• 2:26
  available
• 2:26
  to
• 2:26
  a
• 2:27
  broader
• 2:27
  audience
• 2:28
  in
• 2:28
  the
• 2:28
  liquid
• 2:29
  ETF
• 2:29
  structure.
• 2:31
  Uh,
• 2:31
  that's
• 2:31
  fantastic.
• 2:32
  Chris,
• 2:32
  I'm
• 2:33
  a
• 2:33
  big
• 2:33
  believer
• 2:34
  in
• 2:34
  democratization
• 2:36
  of
• 2:36
  investments.
• 2:36
  Like
• 2:37
  why
• 2:37
  should
• 2:38
  these
• 2:38
  institutional
• 2:39
  level
• 2:40
  strategies
• 2:41
  be
• 2:41
  only
• 2:41
  for
• 2:41
  institutions?
• 2:42
  Right,
• 2:43
  and
• 2:43
  especially
• 2:43
  alternatives.
• 2:44
  They
• 2:44
  can.
• 2:45
  It
• 2:45
  brings
• 2:46
  such
• 2:46
  good
• 2:46
  benefits
• 2:47
  to
• 2:47
  a
• 2:47
  portfolio
• 2:48
  through
• 2:48
  diversification,
• 2:50
  you
• 2:50
  know,
• 2:50
  maybe
• 2:50
  enhanced
• 2:51
  risk
• 2:52
  adjusted
• 2:52
  returns.
• 2:53
  So
• 2:53
  I'm
• 2:54
  glad
• 2:54
  that,
• 2:54
  especially
• 2:54
  in
• 2:55
  the
• 2:55
  ETF
• 2:55
  wrapper
• 2:56
  where
• 2:56
  um,
• 2:57
  they're
• 2:57
  easier
• 2:58
  to
• 2:58
  access
• 2:59
  access.
• 3:00
  You
• 3:00
  also
• 3:00
  have
• 3:01
  that
• 3:01
  transparency
• 3:02
  and
• 3:02
  everything
• 3:02
  that
• 3:02
  goes
• 3:02
  along
• 3:03
  with
• 3:03
  that
• 3:03
  ETF.
• 3:05
  And
• 3:05
  like
• 3:05
  I
• 3:05
  said,
• 3:05
  private
• 3:06
  credit,
• 3:06
  it's
• 3:06
  come
• 3:07
  under
• 3:07
  huge
• 3:08
  scrutiny
• 3:08
  recently
• 3:09
  for,
• 3:10
  for
• 3:10
  obvious
• 3:10
  reasons.
• 3:11
  But
• 3:11
  Chris,
• 3:12
  how
• 3:13
  have
• 3:13
  we.
• 3:14
  Got
• 3:14
  to
• 3:14
  this
• 3:14
  point
• 3:14
  where
• 3:15
  people
• 3:15
  are
• 3:15
  now
• 3:15
  concerned
• 3:16
  that
• 3:16
  this
• 3:17
  crisis,
• 3:18
  if
• 3:19
  you
• 3:19
  want
• 3:19
  to
• 3:19
  call
• 3:19
  it
• 3:19
  crisis,
• 3:20
  I
• 3:20
  don't
• 3:20
  think
• 3:20
  it's
• 3:20
  a
• 3:20
  crisis
• 3:21
  yet,
• 3:21
  but
• 3:22
  could
• 3:22
  snowball
• 3:23
  into,
• 3:24
  you
• 3:24
  know,
• 3:24
  a
• 3:25
  major
• 3:25
  crisis
• 3:26
  for
• 3:26
  the
• 3:26
  financial
• 3:27
  markets.
• 3:30
  So
• 3:30
  I,
• 3:31
  I,
• 3:31
  I'm
• 3:31
  not
• 3:32
  in
• 3:32
  the
• 3:32
  crisis
• 3:32
  camp
• 3:33
  and
• 3:34
  I
• 3:34
  think
• 3:34
  what
• 3:34
  we
• 3:35
  have
• 3:35
  seen
• 3:35
  in
• 3:37
  private
• 3:37
  credit
• 3:38
  is.
• 3:39
  Maybe,
• 3:41
  maybe
• 3:41
  it's
• 3:42
  the
• 3:42
  tell,
• 3:43
  but
• 3:43
  a
• 3:43
  lot
• 3:44
  of
• 3:44
  it
• 3:44
  is
• 3:44
  really
• 3:45
  more
• 3:45
  endemic
• 3:46
  to
• 3:46
  what's
• 3:46
  gone
• 3:46
  on
• 3:46
  in
• 3:47
  private
• 3:47
  credit
• 3:47
  and
• 3:47
  how
• 3:48
  the
• 3:48
  asset
• 3:48
  class
• 3:49
  has
• 3:49
  evolved.
• 3:50
  So
• 3:51
  going
• 3:51
  back
• 3:51
  to
• 3:52
  the
• 3:52
  summer,
• 3:53
  early
• 3:53
  fall
• 3:53
  of
• 3:54
  last
• 3:54
  year,
• 3:54
  you
• 3:54
  had
• 3:54
  some
• 3:55
  idiosyncratic
• 3:55
  events.
• 3:57
  Uh,
• 3:57
  first
• 3:57
  brands
• 3:58
  tricolor
• 3:59
  More
• 3:59
  recently
• 4:00
  you've
• 4:00
  had
• 4:00
  MFS
• 4:01
  naturally
• 4:02
  leads
• 4:02
  people
• 4:02
  to
• 4:03
  wonder,
• 4:03
  you
• 4:03
  know,
• 4:03
  are
• 4:03
  there,
• 4:04
  are
• 4:04
  there
• 4:04
  many,
• 4:05
  many
• 4:05
  more
• 4:05
  of
• 4:05
  these
• 4:05
  idiosyncratic
• 4:06
  events?
• 4:06
  That's
• 4:07
  number
• 4:07
  one.
• 4:07
  Yeah.
• 4:08
  Number
• 4:08
  two
• 4:09
  is
• 4:09
  the
• 4:09
  disruptive
• 4:10
  potential
• 4:11
  of
• 4:11
  AI
• 4:13
  as
• 4:13
  it
• 4:13
  pertains
• 4:13
  to
• 4:14
  the
• 4:14
  tech
• 4:14
  sector
• 4:15
  where
• 4:15
  a
• 4:15
  lot
• 4:15
  of
• 4:15
  private
• 4:16
  sector
• 4:17
  credit
• 4:17
  has
• 4:17
  been
• 4:18
  deployed
• 4:19
  much
• 4:19
  more
• 4:19
  so
• 4:19
  than
• 4:20
  in
• 4:20
  the
• 4:20
  high
• 4:20
  yield
• 4:20
  market.
• 4:21
  Technology
• 4:22
  in
• 4:22
  the
• 4:22
  high
• 4:22
  yield
• 4:22
  market
• 4:22
  is,
• 4:23
  is
• 4:24
  somewhere
• 4:24
  between
• 4:24
  five
• 4:25
  and
• 4:25
  10%.
• 4:25
  It
• 4:26
  tends
• 4:26
  to
• 4:26
  be
• 4:26
  skewed
• 4:27
  more
• 4:27
  towards,
• 4:28
  uh,
• 4:28
  consumer
• 4:29
  sectors.
• 4:30
  And
• 4:30
  the
• 4:30
  third,
• 4:30
  more
• 4:31
  recently
• 4:31
  is
• 4:32
  the
• 4:32
  impact
• 4:32
  of
• 4:33
  what's
• 4:33
  going
• 4:33
  on
• 4:33
  in
• 4:33
  Iran
• 4:34
  and
• 4:34
  how
• 4:34
  that
• 4:34
  might
• 4:35
  dent
• 4:35
  the
• 4:36
  uh,
• 4:36
  US
• 4:37
  economy.
• 4:38
  All
• 4:38
  of
• 4:38
  that
• 4:38
  has
• 4:38
  a
• 4:38
  gain
• 4:39
  weight,
• 4:39
  um,
• 4:40
  against
• 4:41
  private
• 4:41
  credit.
• 4:42
  But
• 4:42
  more
• 4:43
  broadly,
• 4:44
  if
• 4:44
  we
• 4:44
  look
• 4:44
  at
• 4:44
  what's
• 4:45
  gone
• 4:45
  on
• 4:45
  in
• 4:45
  the
• 4:45
  high
• 4:45
  yield
• 4:46
  market,
• 4:46
  we've
• 4:46
  been
• 4:46
  saying
• 4:47
  that
• 4:47
  high
• 4:47
  yield
• 4:47
  is
• 4:47
  probably
• 4:48
  too
• 4:48
  tight
• 4:49
  for,
• 4:50
  you
• 4:50
  know,
• 4:50
  going
• 4:50
  on
• 4:50
  a
• 4:50
  year
• 4:51
  now,
• 4:51
  um,
• 4:52
  not
• 4:52
  only
• 4:53
  do
• 4:53
  some
• 4:54
  of
• 4:54
  the,
• 4:54
  the
• 4:55
  economic
• 4:55
  variables
• 4:56
  that
• 4:56
  we
• 4:56
  look
• 4:56
  at
• 4:57
  suggest
• 4:58
  to
• 4:58
  us
• 4:58
  that
• 4:58
  high
• 4:58
  yield
• 4:59
  had
• 4:59
  been
• 4:59
  stretched,
• 5:00
  but
• 5:00
  also
• 5:01
  the
• 5:01
  realized
• 5:02
  bank
• 5:02
  level
• 5:03
  of
• 5:03
  bankruptcies
• 5:03
  among
• 5:04
  corporates
• 5:04
  has
• 5:04
  now
• 5:04
  risen.
• 5:05
  To
• 5:06
  about
• 5:06
  50%
• 5:07
  above
• 5:08
  the
• 5:08
  trailing
• 5:08
  12
• 5:08
  month
• 5:09
  average.
• 5:09
  So
• 5:09
  there's
• 5:09
  clearly
• 5:10
  some
• 5:10
  signs
• 5:10
  of
• 5:10
  stress
• 5:11
  in
• 5:11
  the
• 5:11
  market
• 5:13
  against
• 5:13
  that,
• 5:13
  Ryan,
• 5:14
  and
• 5:14
  I'd
• 5:14
  weigh
• 5:14
  the
• 5:14
  fact
• 5:14
  that
• 5:15
  we've
• 5:15
  had
• 5:15
  a
• 5:15
  significant
• 5:16
  repricing
• 5:16
  already,
• 5:18
  um,
• 5:18
  and
• 5:18
  probably
• 5:19
  more
• 5:19
  advanced
• 5:19
  in
• 5:20
  private
• 5:20
  credit
• 5:21
  than
• 5:21
  it
• 5:21
  is
• 5:21
  in
• 5:21
  the
• 5:22
  high
• 5:22
  yield
• 5:22
  market.
• 5:22
  So
• 5:22
  high
• 5:23
  yield
• 5:23
  market
• 5:23
  spreads,
• 5:24
  bottomed.
• 5:25
  In
• 5:25
  January,
• 5:26
  there
• 5:26
  are
• 5:26
  about
• 5:26
  70,
• 5:27
  75
• 5:27
  basis
• 5:27
  points
• 5:28
  wider.
• 5:28
  So
• 5:28
  far
• 5:29
  in
• 5:30
  private
• 5:30
  credit,
• 5:30
  you've
• 5:31
  had
• 5:31
  discounts,
• 5:31
  widen
• 5:32
  discounts
• 5:33
  to
• 5:33
  book
• 5:33
  value,
• 5:34
  um,
• 5:35
  widen
• 5:35
  to
• 5:35
  north
• 5:36
  of
• 5:36
  20%.
• 5:37
  So
• 5:37
  there's
• 5:37
  a
• 5:37
  lot
• 5:37
  of
• 5:37
  pain
• 5:38
  priced
• 5:38
  into
• 5:38
  the
• 5:38
  market
• 5:39
  already.
• 5:40
  That's
• 5:40
  interesting
• 5:41
  that
• 5:41
  there
• 5:42
  is
• 5:42
  a
• 5:42
  lot
• 5:42
  of
• 5:42
  pain
• 5:42
  because
• 5:43
  like
• 5:43
  you
• 5:43
  said,
• 5:44
  when
• 5:44
  I
• 5:44
  look
• 5:44
  at
• 5:45
  credit
• 5:45
  spreads,
• 5:46
  they're
• 5:47
  pretty,
• 5:48
  they've
• 5:48
  gone
• 5:48
  up
• 5:48
  a
• 5:48
  little
• 5:49
  bit
• 5:49
  recently,
• 5:49
  but
• 5:50
  they're
• 5:50
  still
• 5:50
  very
• 5:50
  tight.
• 5:51
  It's
• 5:51
  like.
• 5:52
  I
• 5:52
  feel
• 5:53
  as
• 5:53
  if
• 5:53
  they
• 5:53
  should
• 5:53
  be
• 5:53
  wider
• 5:54
  for
• 5:54
  the
• 5:54
  uncertainty
• 5:55
  that's
• 5:55
  out
• 5:55
  there.
• 5:56
  Right.
• 5:56
  But
• 5:56
  you're
• 5:57
  seeing
• 5:57
  that
• 5:57
  more,
• 5:58
  you
• 5:58
  know,
• 5:58
  pri
• 5:59
  the
• 5:59
  private
• 6:00
  space
• 6:01
  is
• 6:01
  kind
• 6:01
  of
• 6:01
  indicating
• 6:02
  maybe
• 6:02
  there
• 6:02
  is
• 6:03
  some
• 6:03
  distress
• 6:04
  out
• 6:04
  there.
• 6:05
  I
• 6:05
  think
• 6:05
  so.
• 6:05
  Um,
• 6:06
  so
• 6:07
  our
• 6:07
  estimates,
• 6:08
  I.
• 6:09
  Okay,
• 6:10
  going
• 6:10
  back
• 6:10
  to
• 6:10
  wind
• 6:11
  spreads,
• 6:11
  were
• 6:11
  at
• 6:11
  the
• 6:11
  tights,
• 6:12
  and
• 6:12
  you're
• 6:12
  right,
• 6:12
  they,
• 6:12
  they
• 6:13
  were
• 6:13
  upwards
• 6:13
  of
• 6:14
  the
• 6:14
  90th
• 6:14
  percentile,
• 6:15
  actually
• 6:15
  upwards
• 6:16
  of
• 6:16
  the
• 6:16
  95th
• 6:16
  percentile
• 6:17
  of
• 6:17
  tightness
• 6:18
  relative
• 6:18
  to
• 6:18
  their
• 6:18
  history.
• 6:19
  Um,
• 6:20
  our
• 6:21
  assessment
• 6:21
  at
• 6:21
  the
• 6:21
  time
• 6:22
  was
• 6:22
  that
• 6:22
  they
• 6:22
  were
• 6:22
  probably
• 6:23
  200
• 6:23
  ish
• 6:24
  basis
• 6:24
  points
• 6:25
  too
• 6:25
  tight.
• 6:25
  This
• 6:25
  is
• 6:25
  in
• 6:26
  the
• 6:26
  US
• 6:26
  high
• 6:26
  yield
• 6:26
  market.
• 6:27
  You've
• 6:27
  had
• 6:28
  a
• 6:28
  roughly
• 6:28
  80
• 6:29
  basis
• 6:29
  point
• 6:29
  widening
• 6:30
  so
• 6:30
  far,
• 6:31
  so
• 6:31
  they're
• 6:31
  still
• 6:31
  tight.
• 6:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:33
  So
• 6:33
  I,
• 6:33
  I
• 6:33
  definitely
• 6:34
  agree
• 6:34
  with,
• 6:34
  with
• 6:34
  that
• 6:35
  sentiment.
• 6:36
  So
• 6:37
  do
• 6:37
  you
• 6:37
  think,
• 6:37
  and
• 6:37
  I
• 6:37
  think.
• 6:38
  You
• 6:38
  kind
• 6:39
  of
• 6:39
  already
• 6:39
  answered
• 6:40
  this
• 6:40
  question,
• 6:40
  but
• 6:41
  do
• 6:41
  you
• 6:41
  think
• 6:41
  the
• 6:41
  concerns
• 6:42
  in
• 6:42
  private
• 6:42
  credit,
• 6:43
  that
• 6:43
  issue,
• 6:43
  they're
• 6:44
  a
• 6:44
  little
• 6:44
  overdone,
• 6:45
  maybe
• 6:45
  we're
• 6:45
  a
• 6:45
  little
• 6:46
  too
• 6:46
  concerned
• 6:47
  and
• 6:50
  o
• 6:50
  overdone.
• 6:51
  I,
• 6:51
  I
• 6:52
  don't
• 6:52
  know
• 6:52
  if
• 6:52
  I'd
• 6:52
  say
• 6:52
  they're
• 6:53
  overdone,
• 6:53
  they're
• 6:53
  warranted.
• 6:54
  This
• 6:54
  is
• 6:54
  a
• 6:55
  new
• 6:55
  asset
• 6:55
  class
• 6:55
  that
• 6:56
  people
• 6:56
  have
• 6:56
  not
• 6:57
  the
• 6:57
  sort
• 6:57
  of
• 6:57
  familiarity
• 6:58
  with.
• 6:59
  I
• 6:59
  think
• 7:00
  people
• 7:00
  are
• 7:00
  coming
• 7:00
  to
• 7:00
  the
• 7:01
  realization
• 7:01
  in
• 7:01
  some
• 7:02
  cases,
• 7:03
  um,
• 7:03
  that
• 7:04
  their
• 7:04
  capital
• 7:05
  is
• 7:05
  locked
• 7:06
  up,
• 7:07
  right?
• 7:07
  Like.
• 7:07
  It,
• 7:08
  it,
• 7:08
  it's
• 7:08
  not
• 7:08
  that
• 7:08
  this
• 7:09
  is
• 7:09
  a
• 7:09
  surprise
• 7:09
  to
• 7:09
  people,
• 7:10
  it's
• 7:11
  a
• 7:11
  surprise
• 7:11
  that,
• 7:12
  you
• 7:12
  know,
• 7:13
  it's
• 7:13
  a
• 7:13
  surprise
• 7:13
  to
• 7:14
  them
• 7:14
  that
• 7:14
  they
• 7:14
  were
• 7:14
  gonna
• 7:14
  want
• 7:14
  their
• 7:15
  money
• 7:15
  back
• 7:15
  that
• 7:15
  quickly.
• 7:16
  So
• 7:16
  I
• 7:16
  don't
• 7:16
  think
• 7:16
  it's
• 7:17
  a,
• 7:17
  it's
• 7:17
  nothing
• 7:17
  endemic
• 7:18
  to
• 7:18
  the
• 7:18
  asset
• 7:18
  class,
• 7:19
  aside
• 7:19
  from,
• 7:21
  you
• 7:21
  know,
• 7:21
  people,
• 7:21
  people
• 7:22
  starting
• 7:22
  to
• 7:22
  have
• 7:22
  a
• 7:22
  better
• 7:23
  appreciation
• 7:23
  for
• 7:24
  the
• 7:25
  way
• 7:25
  that
• 7:25
  these
• 7:25
  structures
• 7:26
  work.
• 7:26
  And
• 7:27
  the
• 7:27
  second
• 7:27
  thing
• 7:27
  is,
• 7:27
  there's
• 7:28
  being
• 7:28
  a
• 7:28
  huge
• 7:28
  amount
• 7:28
  of
• 7:29
  dispersion.
• 7:30
  Like
• 7:30
  if
• 7:30
  you
• 7:30
  pick,
• 7:31
  you
• 7:31
  know,
• 7:31
  let's
• 7:31
  just
• 7:32
  say
• 7:32
  you
• 7:32
  pick
• 7:32
  A,
• 7:32
  B,
• 7:32
  D,
• 7:33
  C
• 7:33
  to
• 7:33
  express
• 7:34
  your
• 7:34
  private
• 7:34
  credit
• 7:34
  view.
• 7:35
  Business
• 7:35
  development
• 7:36
  company
• 7:36
  that
• 7:37
  lends
• 7:37
  to
• 7:37
  the,
• 7:38
  to
• 7:38
  the
• 7:38
  private
• 7:38
  sector.
• 7:39
  Um,
• 7:40
  you
• 7:40
  could
• 7:40
  have
• 7:40
  a
• 7:40
  very
• 7:41
  good
• 7:41
  experience
• 7:42
  last
• 7:42
  year.
• 7:43
  You
• 7:43
  could
• 7:43
  have
• 7:44
  bought
• 7:44
  somebody
• 7:44
  that
• 7:44
  was
• 7:44
  up
• 7:45
  25%.
• 7:46
  You
• 7:47
  could
• 7:47
  have
• 7:47
  bought
• 7:47
  somebody
• 7:47
  who
• 7:47
  was
• 7:48
  down
• 7:48
  25%.
• 7:49
  So
• 7:51
  I
• 7:51
  think
• 7:51
  we
• 7:51
  need
• 7:52
  to
• 7:52
  separate
• 7:52
  the
• 7:53
  asset
• 7:53
  allocation
• 7:54
  decision
• 7:55
  from
• 7:55
  the
• 7:55
  manager
• 7:56
  selection
• 7:56
  decision.
• 7:57
  And,
• 7:57
  and
• 7:58
  clearly
• 7:58
  if
• 7:58
  you
• 7:58
  pick
• 7:59
  the
• 7:59
  manager
• 7:59
  who's
• 7:59
  down
• 7:59
  25,
• 8:00
  who's
• 8:00
  gated
• 8:00
  you
• 8:00
  in,
• 8:01
  who's
• 8:01
  written
• 8:01
  down
• 8:01
  assets
• 8:02
  and
• 8:02
  being
• 8:02
  in
• 8:02
  the
• 8:02
  paper.
• 8:03
  Probably
• 8:03
  ain't
• 8:03
  so
• 8:04
  happy.
• 8:05
  Yeah,
• 8:05
  I
• 8:06
  think
• 8:06
  that's
• 8:06
  perfect,
• 8:07
  Chris,
• 8:07
  because
• 8:08
  my
• 8:08
  next
• 8:08
  thought
• 8:09
  was,
• 8:09
  you
• 8:09
  know,
• 8:09
  is
• 8:09
  this
• 8:10
  more
• 8:10
  of
• 8:10
  a
• 8:10
  systematic
• 8:11
  issue
• 8:12
  where
• 8:12
  just,
• 8:12
  and
• 8:12
  you
• 8:13
  brought
• 8:13
  it
• 8:13
  up
• 8:13
  earlier,
• 8:14
  you
• 8:14
  know,
• 8:14
  tech,
• 8:15
  you
• 8:15
  know,
• 8:15
  ai,
• 8:16
  it's
• 8:16
  gonna
• 8:17
  disrupt
• 8:17
  the
• 8:17
  tech
• 8:17
  space.
• 8:18
  And
• 8:18
  we've
• 8:18
  seen
• 8:19
  the
• 8:19
  software
• 8:19
  companies
• 8:20
  that
• 8:20
  was
• 8:21
  recent,
• 8:22
  um,
• 8:23
  you
• 8:23
  know,
• 8:23
  that
• 8:23
  caused
• 8:23
  some
• 8:23
  distress
• 8:24
  within
• 8:25
  private
• 8:25
  credit.
• 8:27
  Part
• 8:27
  of
• 8:27
  me
• 8:27
  thinks,
• 8:27
  you
• 8:27
  know,
• 8:28
  it's
• 8:28
  not
• 8:28
  systematic.
• 8:29
  It's
• 8:29
  more
• 8:30
  concentrated
• 8:31
  and
• 8:31
  then
• 8:31
  also,
• 8:32
  like
• 8:32
  you
• 8:32
  said,
• 8:32
  there's
• 8:32
  a
• 8:33
  misalignment
• 8:34
  between
• 8:35
  the
• 8:36
  offering
• 8:36
  and
• 8:37
  who's
• 8:37
  investing
• 8:38
  in
• 8:38
  it.
• 8:38
  I
• 8:38
  think
• 8:38
  that's
• 8:39
  starting
• 8:39
  to
• 8:39
  show
• 8:40
  too.
• 8:40
  Do
• 8:40
  you
• 8:40
  think
• 8:40
  it's
• 8:41
  just
• 8:41
  more
• 8:41
  concentrated
• 8:42
  to
• 8:43
  certain
• 8:43
  areas
• 8:44
  of
• 8:44
  private
• 8:44
  credit
• 8:45
  and
• 8:45
  not
• 8:45
  really
• 8:46
  systematic?
• 8:47
  Yeah,
• 8:47
  I
• 8:47
  don't
• 8:47
  think
• 8:48
  it's
• 8:48
  systematic.
• 8:48
  In
• 8:48
  fact,
• 8:49
  the,
• 8:49
  the
• 8:49
  one.
• 8:50
  I
• 8:50
  will
• 8:50
  answer
• 8:51
  an
• 8:51
  additional
• 8:52
  question,
• 8:52
  which
• 8:52
  you,
• 8:52
  you
• 8:52
  haven't
• 8:53
  asked
• 8:53
  is,
• 8:54
  is
• 8:54
  how
• 8:54
  much
• 8:54
  is
• 8:55
  this?
• 8:55
  Like
• 8:55
  2008?
• 8:56
  And
• 8:56
  that's
• 8:57
  where
• 8:57
  I
• 8:57
  really
• 8:57
  get
• 8:57
  frustrated
• 8:58
  because
• 8:58
  the,
• 8:59
  you
• 8:59
  know,
• 8:59
  if
• 8:59
  you
• 9:00
  look
• 9:00
  at
• 9:00
  what
• 9:00
  the,
• 9:01
  the,
• 9:01
  if
• 9:01
  you
• 9:01
  wanna
• 9:01
  call
• 9:01
  it,
• 9:01
  the
• 9:02
  threat
• 9:02
  from
• 9:02
  AI
• 9:03
  to
• 9:03
  some
• 9:03
  of
• 9:03
  these
• 9:04
  companies
• 9:04
  is,
• 9:05
  it's
• 9:05
  not
• 9:06
  that
• 9:06
  they
• 9:06
  won't
• 9:06
  be
• 9:07
  going
• 9:07
  concerns
• 9:07
  anymore.
• 9:08
  They
• 9:08
  may
• 9:08
  be
• 9:08
  less
• 9:09
  profitable.
• 9:09
  We've
• 9:09
  already
• 9:10
  seen
• 9:10
  layoffs
• 9:10
  and,
• 9:10
  and
• 9:11
  those
• 9:11
  have
• 9:11
  been
• 9:11
  happening
• 9:11
  for
• 9:12
  a
• 9:12
  year,
• 9:12
  oh,
• 9:12
  well
• 9:12
  over
• 9:12
  a
• 9:13
  year
• 9:13
  now.
• 9:14
  Um,
• 9:14
  it's
• 9:14
  that
• 9:15
  they
• 9:15
  might
• 9:15
  have
• 9:15
  not
• 9:15
  have
• 9:16
  the
• 9:16
  sort
• 9:16
  of
• 9:17
  rentier
• 9:18
  level
• 9:18
  margins
• 9:19
  that
• 9:19
  they
• 9:19
  enjoyed
• 9:20
  in
• 9:20
  the
• 9:20
  past,
• 9:21
  but
• 9:21
  it's
• 9:21
  probably
• 9:21
  not
• 9:21
  that
• 9:22
  they're
• 9:22
  going
• 9:22
  to
• 9:22
  cease
• 9:23
  to
• 9:23
  exist
• 9:23
  as
• 9:23
  a
• 9:23
  going
• 9:24
  concern.
• 9:24
  Contrast
• 9:25
  that
• 9:25
  with
• 9:25
  2008,
• 9:26
  where
• 9:27
  you
• 9:27
  had
• 9:27
  structures
• 9:28
  that
• 9:28
  were
• 9:28
  built
• 9:28
  on
• 9:29
  faulty
• 9:29
  assumptions,
• 9:31
  and
• 9:31
  when
• 9:31
  the
• 9:31
  bottom
• 9:32
  started
• 9:32
  caving,
• 9:33
  it
• 9:33
  brought
• 9:33
  down
• 9:33
  the
• 9:33
  rest
• 9:34
  of
• 9:34
  the
• 9:34
  house
• 9:34
  of
• 9:34
  cards.
• 9:35
  I
• 9:35
  don't
• 9:35
  see
• 9:36
  a
• 9:36
  lot
• 9:36
  of
• 9:36
  similarity.
• 9:37
  To
• 9:38
  what's
• 9:38
  gone
• 9:38
  on
• 9:38
  in
• 9:39
  the
• 9:39
  private
• 9:39
  credit
• 9:39
  market.
• 9:40
  But
• 9:40
  you
• 9:40
  know,
• 9:41
  again,
• 9:41
  that's
• 9:41
  not
• 9:42
  to
• 9:42
  dismiss
• 9:43
  the
• 9:43
  fact
• 9:43
  that
• 9:43
  we
• 9:43
  are
• 9:43
  probably
• 9:44
  in
• 9:44
  the
• 9:44
  late
• 9:44
  stages
• 9:45
  of
• 9:45
  a
• 9:45
  credit
• 9:45
  cycle.
• 9:46
  Yeah,
• 9:47
  yeah.
• 9:48
  What
• 9:48
  does
• 9:48
  that,
• 9:49
  I'm
• 9:49
  glad
• 9:49
  you
• 9:49
  brought
• 9:49
  that
• 9:50
  up.
• 9:50
  The,
• 9:51
  why
• 9:52
  does
• 9:52
  that
• 9:52
  impact
• 9:52
  it
• 9:53
  then?
• 9:53
  That
• 9:53
  late
• 9:53
  stage
• 9:54
  of
• 9:54
  the
• 9:54
  credit?
• 9:54
  Can
• 9:54
  you
• 9:54
  go
• 9:55
  into
• 9:55
  a
• 9:55
  little
• 9:55
  bit
• 9:55
  more
• 9:55
  detail
• 9:56
  there?
• 9:56
  Yeah.
• 9:57
  I
• 9:57
  mean,
• 9:58
  in
• 9:58
  the
• 9:58
  same
• 9:58
  way
• 9:58
  that
• 10:00
  many
• 10:00
  of
• 10:01
  us
• 10:01
  are
• 10:01
  behaviorally
• 10:02
  tempted
• 10:02
  to
• 10:02
  reach
• 10:03
  for
• 10:03
  returns.
• 10:05
  Credit
• 10:05
  managers
• 10:06
  do
• 10:06
  the
• 10:06
  same
• 10:06
  thing,
• 10:07
  right?
• 10:07
  I
• 10:07
  mean,
• 10:07
  spreads
• 10:08
  get
• 10:08
  tighter
• 10:08
  and
• 10:08
  tighter.
• 10:09
  I
• 10:09
  money's
• 10:09
  coming
• 10:10
  in,
• 10:10
  yeah,
• 10:10
  I
• 10:10
  gotta
• 10:11
  put
• 10:11
  it
• 10:11
  to
• 10:11
  work
• 10:11
  somewhere.
• 10:12
  And
• 10:12
  so
• 10:13
  you
• 10:13
  start
• 10:13
  stretching
• 10:14
  for
• 10:14
  that
• 10:15
  extra
• 10:15
  little
• 10:15
  bit
• 10:16
  of
• 10:16
  yield
• 10:16
  and
• 10:17
  that
• 10:17
  yield
• 10:17
  comes
• 10:17
  at
• 10:18
  progressively
• 10:18
  less
• 10:18
  compensation
• 10:20
  for
• 10:20
  the
• 10:20
  risk
• 10:20
  that
• 10:21
  you're
• 10:21
  underwriting.
• 10:22
  That's
• 10:22
  late
• 10:22
  stage
• 10:23
  credit
• 10:23
  cycle
• 10:24
  behavior.
• 10:25
  Interesting.
• 10:26
  I
• 10:26
  love
• 10:26
  that.
• 10:26
  Thank
• 10:26
  you.
• 10:27
  Great,
• 10:28
  great
• 10:28
  insight
• 10:29
  there.
• 10:30
  So
• 10:30
  then
• 10:31
  I
• 10:31
  brought
• 10:31
  it
• 10:31
  up
• 10:31
  a
• 10:32
  little,
• 10:32
  you
• 10:32
  know,
• 10:32
  that
• 10:33
  misalignment,
• 10:34
  you
• 10:34
  know,
• 10:34
  for
• 10:34
  the
• 10:34
  past
• 10:35
  year,
• 10:35
  even
• 10:35
  before
• 10:36
  that,
• 10:36
  it's
• 10:36
  like
• 10:37
  private
• 10:38
  credit
• 10:38
  that,
• 10:38
  or
• 10:39
  just
• 10:39
  alternative.
• 10:39
  Private
• 10:40
  managers
• 10:40
  are
• 10:41
  really
• 10:41
  trying
• 10:42
  so
• 10:42
  hard
• 10:42
  to
• 10:42
  get
• 10:42
  into
• 10:43
  the
• 10:43
  retail
• 10:43
  space.
• 10:44
  Private
• 10:44
  wealth,
• 10:45
  same
• 10:45
  time,
• 10:45
  private
• 10:46
  wealth.
• 10:47
  They
• 10:47
  really
• 10:48
  want
• 10:48
  to
• 10:48
  get
• 10:48
  in
• 10:48
  and
• 10:49
  bring
• 10:49
  it,
• 10:49
  get
• 10:49
  exposure
• 10:50
  to
• 10:50
  private
• 10:51
  markets.
• 10:52
  Both
• 10:52
  want
• 10:52
  each
• 10:53
  other.
• 10:54
  Right?
• 10:54
  But
• 10:54
  do
• 10:54
  you
• 10:54
  think.
• 10:56
  Maybe
• 10:56
  we
• 10:56
  should
• 10:56
  have
• 10:57
  taken
• 10:57
  a
• 10:57
  step
• 10:57
  back
• 10:58
  and
• 10:58
  like
• 10:58
  really
• 10:59
  thought
• 10:59
  about
• 10:59
  this
• 11:00
  because
• 11:01
  now
• 11:01
  all
• 11:01
  of
• 11:01
  a
• 11:01
  sudden
• 11:02
  those
• 11:02
  retail
• 11:03
  investors
• 11:04
  at
• 11:04
  private
• 11:04
  wealth,
• 11:05
  like
• 11:05
  you
• 11:05
  said,
• 11:07
  they
• 11:07
  weren't
• 11:07
  in
• 11:07
  the
• 11:07
  investment
• 11:08
  very
• 11:08
  long
• 11:08
  and
• 11:08
  now
• 11:09
  all
• 11:09
  of
• 11:09
  a
• 11:09
  sudden
• 11:09
  they
• 11:09
  want
• 11:09
  money
• 11:10
  out
• 11:10
  where
• 11:11
  they
• 11:11
  just
• 11:11
  misalignment
• 11:12
  there.
• 11:13
  They
• 11:13
  didn't
• 11:13
  really
• 11:14
  understand
• 11:15
  the
• 11:15
  investment
• 11:16
  that
• 11:16
  they're
• 11:16
  getting
• 11:16
  into,
• 11:17
  and
• 11:17
  that's
• 11:17
  kind
• 11:17
  of
• 11:18
  the,
• 11:18
  the
• 11:18
  bigger
• 11:19
  issue
• 11:19
  here.
• 11:21
  It
• 11:21
  is
• 11:21
  possible.
• 11:22
  Um,
• 11:23
  you
• 11:23
  know,
• 11:24
  I,
• 11:24
  I
• 11:25
  certainly
• 11:25
  didn't
• 11:25
  come
• 11:25
  on
• 11:26
  here
• 11:26
  to
• 11:26
  point
• 11:26
  fingers
• 11:26
  Ryan,
• 11:27
  but
• 11:27
  I,
• 11:27
  I
• 11:27
  do
• 11:27
  think
• 11:27
  that,
• 11:28
  uh,
• 11:29
  do
• 11:29
  it,
• 11:29
  there,
• 11:29
  there
• 11:30
  is
• 11:30
  a
• 11:30
  little
• 11:30
  bit
• 11:30
  of
• 11:30
  shiny
• 11:31
  new
• 11:31
  toy
• 11:32
  and,
• 11:33
  you
• 11:33
  know,
• 11:33
  you,
• 11:33
  you
• 11:33
  either
• 11:34
  somewhere
• 11:35
  between
• 11:35
  shiny
• 11:35
  new
• 11:36
  toy
• 11:36
  and
• 11:36
  fomo,
• 11:37
  oh,
• 11:37
  you
• 11:37
  know,
• 11:37
  my
• 11:37
  buddy,
• 11:38
  his
• 11:38
  advisor
• 11:38
  or
• 11:39
  put
• 11:39
  him
• 11:39
  into
• 11:40
  private
• 11:40
  credit.
• 11:41
  Um,
• 11:42
  and
• 11:42
  there
• 11:42
  may
• 11:42
  be
• 11:43
  some,
• 11:44
  you
• 11:44
  know.
• 11:45
  There
• 11:45
  may
• 11:45
  be
• 11:45
  some
• 11:45
  excitement
• 11:46
  around
• 11:46
  it
• 11:47
  that
• 11:47
  isn't
• 11:47
  matched
• 11:47
  by
• 11:47
  the
• 11:48
  due
• 11:48
  diligence
• 11:48
  that's
• 11:48
  gone
• 11:49
  into
• 11:49
  considering
• 11:50
  whether
• 11:50
  it's
• 11:50
  a
• 11:50
  fit.
• 11:51
  I
• 11:51
  mean,
• 11:51
  uh,
• 11:52
  there
• 11:53
  are
• 11:53
  plenty
• 11:53
  of
• 11:53
  institutions
• 11:54
  who
• 11:54
  can
• 11:54
  underwrite
• 11:56
  the
• 11:57
  illiquidity,
• 11:58
  the
• 11:58
  hidden
• 11:59
  volatility,
• 12:00
  the
• 12:01
  ability
• 12:01
  to
• 12:01
  put
• 12:01
  capital
• 12:02
  to
• 12:02
  work
• 12:03
  on
• 12:03
  a
• 12:03
  called
• 12:03
  basis,
• 12:04
  right?
• 12:04
  You're
• 12:04
  committing
• 12:05
  to
• 12:05
  if,
• 12:05
  if
• 12:05
  you're
• 12:05
  an
• 12:05
  institutional
• 12:06
  investor,
• 12:07
  you
• 12:07
  commit
• 12:07
  to
• 12:07
  put
• 12:07
  capital.
• 12:08
  To
• 12:08
  work
• 12:09
  when
• 12:09
  the
• 12:09
  private
• 12:10
  credit
• 12:10
  sponsor
• 12:11
  asks
• 12:11
  for
• 12:11
  it.
• 12:12
  That's
• 12:12
  not
• 12:13
  really
• 12:13
  easy
• 12:13
  for
• 12:14
  an
• 12:14
  individual
• 12:14
  investor
• 12:15
  to
• 12:15
  do.
• 12:16
  And
• 12:16
  I
• 12:16
  think
• 12:16
  some
• 12:17
  of
• 12:17
  what
• 12:17
  we've
• 12:17
  seen,
• 12:18
  the
• 12:18
  enthusiasm
• 12:19
  to
• 12:19
  get
• 12:19
  into
• 12:20
  it
• 12:20
  perhaps
• 12:21
  wasn't
• 12:21
  paired
• 12:21
  with
• 12:22
  enough
• 12:22
  due
• 12:22
  diligence.
• 12:22
  Yes,
• 12:22
  it's
• 12:23
  a
• 12:23
  great
• 12:23
  product.
• 12:23
  I
• 12:24
  often
• 12:24
  say
• 12:25
  it's
• 12:25
  a
• 12:25
  great
• 12:26
  product
• 12:27
  for
• 12:27
  the
• 12:27
  right
• 12:27
  portfolio,
• 12:28
  but
• 12:28
  at
• 12:28
  the
• 12:28
  same
• 12:29
  time,
• 12:29
  it
• 12:29
  can
• 12:30
  be
• 12:30
  a
• 12:30
  terrible
• 12:30
  product
• 12:31
  for
• 12:31
  the
• 12:31
  wrong
• 12:31
  portfolio.
• 12:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:33
  And
• 12:33
  if
• 12:33
  you
• 12:33
  don't
• 12:33
  understand
• 12:34
  that,
• 12:34
  and
• 12:34
  the
• 12:34
  financial
• 12:35
  advisor
• 12:35
  job
• 12:36
  is
• 12:36
  really
• 12:36
  hard.
• 12:37
  All
• 12:37
  the
• 12:37
  new
• 12:37
  products
• 12:38
  out
• 12:38
  there
• 12:38
  and
• 12:39
  the
• 12:39
  demands
• 12:39
  on
• 12:40
  them,
• 12:40
  you
• 12:41
  know,
• 12:41
  but,
• 12:41
  you
• 12:41
  know,
• 12:42
  continue
• 12:42
  to
• 12:42
  educate,
• 12:43
  make
• 12:43
  sure
• 12:43
  that
• 12:43
  those
• 12:44
  product
• 12:44
  aligns
• 12:45
  with
• 12:46
  what,
• 12:46
  uh,
• 12:46
  what
• 12:47
  the
• 12:47
  investor
• 12:47
  needs.
• 12:48
  Why,
• 12:49
  let's
• 12:50
  compare
• 12:50
  it
• 12:50
  to
• 12:50
  public
• 12:51
  credit.
• 12:52
  Why
• 12:53
  is
• 12:53
  private
• 12:53
  credit
• 12:54
  a
• 12:54
  good
• 12:54
  alternative
• 12:55
  for
• 12:55
  public
• 12:55
  credit?
• 12:55
  And
• 12:55
  let's
• 12:56
  assume
• 12:56
  it's
• 12:56
  for
• 12:56
  the
• 12:56
  right
• 12:57
  investor.
• 12:57
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:58
  Why
• 12:58
  is
• 12:58
  it
• 12:58
  a
• 12:58
  good
• 12:58
  alternative
• 12:59
  to
• 12:59
  your
• 13:00
  traditional
• 13:01
  ag
• 13:01
  or
• 13:02
  public
• 13:02
  credit?
• 13:04
  So
• 13:04
  there's,
• 13:04
  there's
• 13:04
  a
• 13:04
  couple
• 13:05
  of
• 13:05
  things
• 13:05
  it
• 13:05
  offers
• 13:06
  you.
• 13:06
  Yeah.
• 13:06
  Um,
• 13:08
  one
• 13:08
  of
• 13:08
  which
• 13:09
  is
• 13:10
  the
• 13:10
  private
• 13:10
  nature
• 13:11
  of
• 13:11
  it
• 13:12
  doesn't
• 13:12
  have
• 13:12
  as
• 13:13
  much
• 13:13
  public
• 13:14
  scrutiny.
• 13:14
  That's
• 13:15
  number
• 13:15
  one.
• 13:15
  Number
• 13:16
  two,
• 13:17
  floating
• 13:18
  rate
• 13:18
  issuance.
• 13:19
  So
• 13:20
  if,
• 13:20
  if
• 13:20
  you
• 13:20
  say,
• 13:20
  I,
• 13:20
  I
• 13:21
  really
• 13:21
  like
• 13:21
  credit,
• 13:22
  but
• 13:22
  I'm
• 13:22
  a
• 13:22
  little
• 13:22
  bit
• 13:22
  concerned
• 13:23
  about
• 13:23
  interest
• 13:23
  rates
• 13:24
  going
• 13:24
  up,
• 13:24
  private
• 13:25
  credit
• 13:25
  might
• 13:25
  be
• 13:25
  a
• 13:25
  good
• 13:25
  fit
• 13:26
  for
• 13:26
  your
• 13:26
  portfolio.
• 13:26
  You
• 13:26
  can
• 13:27
  immunize
• 13:27
  some
• 13:27
  of
• 13:27
  that
• 13:27
  interest
• 13:28
  rate
• 13:28
  risk.
• 13:29
  Um,
• 13:30
  the,
• 13:31
  the
• 13:31
  what
• 13:31
  those
• 13:32
  net
• 13:32
  out
• 13:32
  to
• 13:33
  over
• 13:33
  time
• 13:34
  has
• 13:34
  historically
• 13:35
  been.
• 13:36
  A
• 13:36
  higher
• 13:37
  return
• 13:37
  than
• 13:38
  investment
• 13:38
  grade
• 13:39
  or
• 13:39
  high
• 13:39
  yield
• 13:39
  credit,
• 13:40
  we
• 13:40
  say,
• 13:41
  okay,
• 13:41
  that's
• 13:41
  great.
• 13:41
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:42
  Um,
• 13:43
  and
• 13:43
  the
• 13:43
  other
• 13:43
  thing
• 13:44
  that,
• 13:44
  that,
• 13:44
  which
• 13:44
  I
• 13:44
  do
• 13:45
  believe,
• 13:45
  uh,
• 13:45
  investors
• 13:46
  have
• 13:46
  been
• 13:46
  sold
• 13:47
  a
• 13:47
  bill
• 13:47
  of
• 13:47
  goods
• 13:47
  on,
• 13:48
  is
• 13:49
  the
• 13:49
  lack
• 13:50
  of
• 13:50
  volatility
• 13:51
  where
• 13:51
  the
• 13:51
  high
• 13:52
  yield
• 13:52
  market
• 13:52
  has
• 13:52
  undergone
• 13:53
  stress.
• 13:54
  Private
• 13:55
  credit
• 13:55
  has
• 13:55
  really
• 13:55
  taken
• 13:55
  it
• 13:56
  on
• 13:56
  the
• 13:56
  chin.
• 13:56
  We
• 13:56
  don't
• 13:56
  have
• 13:56
  decades
• 13:57
  worth
• 13:57
  of
• 13:57
  history
• 13:58
  here
• 13:58
  the
• 13:58
  way
• 13:58
  we
• 13:58
  do
• 13:58
  in
• 13:58
  some
• 13:58
  others.
• 13:59
  But
• 13:59
  if
• 13:59
  you
• 13:59
  go
• 13:59
  back
• 13:59
  to
• 14:00
  2020.
• 14:01
  Um,
• 14:02
  I
• 14:02
  think
• 14:02
  the
• 14:02
  high
• 14:02
  yield
• 14:02
  market
• 14:02
  was
• 14:03
  off
• 14:03
  mid-teens,
• 14:04
  private
• 14:04
  credit
• 14:05
  was
• 14:05
  off
• 14:05
  38%.
• 14:07
  Okay.
• 14:07
  So
• 14:08
  you
• 14:08
  have
• 14:09
  this,
• 14:09
  what
• 14:09
  people
• 14:10
  perceive
• 14:10
  to
• 14:10
  be
• 14:10
  a
• 14:10
  lack
• 14:11
  of
• 14:11
  volatility
• 14:11
  until
• 14:12
  you
• 14:12
  have
• 14:12
  a
• 14:12
  massive
• 14:13
  rapid
• 14:14
  drawdown.
• 14:15
  That's
• 14:16
  the
• 14:16
  trade
• 14:16
  off
• 14:17
  of
• 14:17
  getting
• 14:18
  these
• 14:18
  higher
• 14:18
  returns
• 14:19
  and,
• 14:20
  and,
• 14:20
  and
• 14:20
  the
• 14:20
  less
• 14:20
  interest
• 14:20
  rate
• 14:20
  risk.
• 14:21
  So
• 14:21
  it's,
• 14:22
  it's
• 14:22
  every
• 14:22
  bit
• 14:22
  is
• 14:22
  vol
• 14:23
  and
• 14:23
  actually
• 14:23
  measured
• 14:23
  volatility
• 14:24
  in
• 14:24
  private
• 14:24
  credit,
• 14:25
  much
• 14:25
  higher.
• 14:26
  Than
• 14:26
  any
• 14:27
  other
• 14:27
  form
• 14:27
  of
• 14:27
  public
• 14:28
  credit.
• 14:28
  But
• 14:28
  that's
• 14:29
  the
• 14:29
  draw
• 14:29
  is
• 14:30
  more
• 14:30
  return.
• 14:31
  Yeah.
• 14:31
  Well,
• 14:32
  there's
• 14:32
  no
• 14:32
  free
• 14:32
  lunches,
• 14:33
  Chris.
• 14:34
  I,
• 14:34
  I
• 14:34
  think
• 14:35
  I
• 14:35
  learned
• 14:35
  that
• 14:36
  early
• 14:36
  in
• 14:36
  my
• 14:36
  career.
• 14:37
  No
• 14:37
  free
• 14:37
  lunches
• 14:38
  unless
• 14:38
  you
• 14:38
  can't
• 14:39
  just
• 14:39
  have
• 14:40
  higher
• 14:40
  return
• 14:41
  without
• 14:42
  a
• 14:42
  drawback.
• 14:43
  Right.
• 14:44
  And
• 14:44
  Chris,
• 14:44
  if
• 14:45
  you
• 14:45
  tell
• 14:45
  me
• 14:45
  I
• 14:45
  can
• 14:46
  get
• 14:46
  10%
• 14:46
  return
• 14:47
  with
• 14:48
  no
• 14:48
  risk,
• 14:48
  I
• 14:48
  would
• 14:49
  be
• 14:49
  a
• 14:49
  little
• 14:50
  concerned.
• 14:51
  It'd
• 14:51
  be
• 14:51
  a
• 14:51
  little,
• 14:51
  I
• 14:51
  might,
• 14:52
  uh,
• 14:52
  be
• 14:52
  like,
• 14:52
  uh,
• 14:53
  Chris,
• 14:53
  what
• 14:53
  are
• 14:53
  you
• 14:53
  trying
• 14:54
  to
• 14:54
  cellmate
• 14:54
  here?
• 14:55
  Yeah.
• 14:55
  Um.
• 14:56
  So
• 14:57
  with
• 14:57
  that
• 14:58
  being
• 14:58
  said,
• 14:58
  are
• 14:58
  there
• 14:59
  some
• 14:59
  other
• 14:59
  strategies
• 15:00
  out
• 15:01
  there?
• 15:01
  Yes.
• 15:01
  Private
• 15:01
  credit,
• 15:02
  you
• 15:03
  brought
• 15:03
  out
• 15:03
  the
• 15:03
  benefits
• 15:04
  and,
• 15:04
  and
• 15:04
  what
• 15:04
  it
• 15:04
  can
• 15:05
  bring
• 15:05
  to
• 15:05
  a
• 15:05
  portfolio.
• 15:07
  Are
• 15:07
  there
• 15:07
  other
• 15:07
  strategies
• 15:08
  that
• 15:08
  might
• 15:08
  provide
• 15:09
  some
• 15:10
  similar
• 15:10
  benefits
• 15:11
  that
• 15:11
  private
• 15:12
  credit
• 15:13
  without
• 15:13
  that
• 15:13
  risk,
• 15:14
  maybe
• 15:14
  without
• 15:14
  that
• 15:15
  volatility
• 15:16
  such
• 15:16
  as
• 15:16
  liquidity
• 15:17
  risk
• 15:18
  that
• 15:18
  maybe
• 15:19
  investors
• 15:20
  can,
• 15:20
  um,
• 15:21
  invest
• 15:21
  in
• 15:22
  that
• 15:22
  like
• 15:22
  said
• 15:22
  doesn't
• 15:23
  have
• 15:23
  the
• 15:23
  liquidity
• 15:24
  risk.
• 15:26
  So
• 15:26
  in
• 15:26
  terms
• 15:27
  of
• 15:28
  the,
• 15:29
  within
• 15:29
  the
• 15:29
  alternatives
• 15:30
  bucket,
• 15:30
  and
• 15:31
  I'm,
• 15:31
  I'm
• 15:31
  a
• 15:31
  big
• 15:31
  fan
• 15:31
  of,
• 15:32
  of
• 15:32
  ensuring
• 15:32
  that
• 15:32
  I
• 15:33
  use
• 15:33
  the
• 15:33
  plural
• 15:34
  alternatives,
• 15:35
  not
• 15:35
  alternative.
• 15:36
  Because
• 15:36
  as,
• 15:37
  as
• 15:37
  an,
• 15:37
  as
• 15:37
  advisors
• 15:38
  go
• 15:38
  from
• 15:39
  traditional
• 15:40
  60
• 15:40
  40
• 15:41
  to,
• 15:42
  you
• 15:42
  know,
• 15:42
  55,
• 15:42
  35,
• 15:43
  10,
• 15:44
  you
• 15:45
  know,
• 15:45
  50,
• 15:45
  30,
• 15:45
  20,
• 15:46
  um,
• 15:47
  you,
• 15:48
  you,
• 15:48
  you,
• 15:48
  you
• 15:48
  gotta
• 15:48
  have,
• 15:49
  it's
• 15:49
  inexcusable
• 15:50
  to
• 15:50
  not
• 15:50
  have
• 15:50
  multiple
• 15:51
  assets
• 15:51
  within
• 15:52
  that
• 15:52
  alternatives
• 15:53
  component
• 15:54
  and.
• 15:55
  While,
• 15:55
  while
• 15:55
  I
• 15:55
  do
• 15:55
  think
• 15:56
  private
• 15:56
  credit
• 15:56
  fits
• 15:57
  in
• 15:57
  there,
• 15:57
  I
• 15:57
  think
• 15:57
  there
• 15:58
  are
• 15:58
  plenty
• 15:58
  of
• 15:58
  other
• 15:59
  liquidy
• 16:00
  accessible,
• 16:02
  perhaps
• 16:03
  even
• 16:03
  more
• 16:03
  pedestrian
• 16:03
  things
• 16:04
  that
• 16:04
  go
• 16:04
  in
• 16:04
  there.
• 16:04
  Like
• 16:04
  a
• 16:04
  managed
• 16:05
  future
• 16:05
  strategy.
• 16:06
  That's
• 16:06
  a
• 16:06
  good
• 16:06
  fit.
• 16:07
  Right?
• 16:07
  It
• 16:07
  doesn't,
• 16:07
  I
• 16:07
  mean,
• 16:07
  just
• 16:08
  even
• 16:09
  setting
• 16:09
  aside
• 16:09
  what
• 16:09
  we
• 16:10
  are
• 16:10
  doing
• 16:10
  at
• 16:10
  simplify,
• 16:11
  managed
• 16:12
  futures
• 16:12
  generally
• 16:13
  exhibit
• 16:13
  low
• 16:14
  correlation
• 16:15
  with
• 16:15
  stocks
• 16:16
  and
• 16:16
  bonds.
• 16:17
  They're
• 16:17
  zigging
• 16:17
  when
• 16:18
  you're.
• 16:19
  You
• 16:19
  know,
• 16:19
  60
• 16:19
  40
• 16:19
  zagging,
• 16:21
  um,
• 16:22
  currency
• 16:22
  strategies.
• 16:23
  We've
• 16:23
  recently
• 16:23
  been
• 16:23
  pushed
• 16:24
  into
• 16:24
  the
• 16:24
  currency
• 16:24
  space
• 16:25
  with
• 16:25
  a
• 16:26
  strategy
• 16:26
  that
• 16:26
  is,
• 16:26
  is
• 16:27
  done
• 16:27
  phenomenally
• 16:28
  well,
• 16:28
  all
• 16:28
  systematically
• 16:29
  managed.
• 16:30
  Um,
• 16:30
  not
• 16:31
  only
• 16:32
  has
• 16:32
  it
• 16:32
  produced
• 16:33
  fantastic
• 16:34
  absolute
• 16:35
  returns,
• 16:36
  it's
• 16:37
  diversified,
• 16:38
  the
• 16:39
  very
• 16:39
  low
• 16:39
  correlations,
• 16:40
  almost
• 16:40
  actually
• 16:41
  negative
• 16:41
  correlations
• 16:42
  between
• 16:42
  stocks
• 16:43
  and
• 16:43
  with
• 16:44
  stocks
• 16:44
  and
• 16:44
  bonds.
• 16:45
  And
• 16:46
  critically
• 16:47
  it
• 16:47
  is.
• 16:48
  Uh,
• 16:48
  lowly
• 16:49
  correlated
• 16:50
  with
• 16:50
  other
• 16:50
  alternatives.
• 16:52
  So
• 16:52
  that's
• 16:52
  kind
• 16:53
  of
• 16:53
  what
• 16:53
  you
• 16:53
  want
• 16:53
  in
• 16:53
  a
• 16:53
  portfolio.
• 16:54
  Like
• 16:54
  things,
• 16:55
  things
• 16:55
  that
• 16:55
  have
• 16:55
  a
• 16:55
  positive
• 16:55
  return
• 16:57
  but
• 16:57
  don't
• 16:58
  behave
• 16:58
  like
• 16:58
  other
• 16:59
  stuff
• 16:59
  in
• 16:59
  the
• 16:59
  portfolio.
• 16:59
  That's
• 17:00
  a
• 17:00
  very
• 17:00
  valuable
• 17:00
  property.
• 17:01
  So
• 17:01
  I
• 17:01
  think
• 17:02
  those
• 17:02
  are
• 17:02
  in,
• 17:03
  again,
• 17:03
  both
• 17:03
  of
• 17:03
  those
• 17:04
  things.
• 17:05
  Very
• 17:05
  liquid.
• 17:06
  Um,
• 17:06
  easy
• 17:06
  to
• 17:07
  access.
• 17:07
  Yeah,
• 17:08
  I
• 17:08
  love
• 17:09
  those
• 17:09
  examples.
• 17:09
  I
• 17:09
  think
• 17:10
  they're
• 17:10
  great.
• 17:11
  Um,
• 17:12
  alternative,
• 17:13
  I
• 17:13
  wouldn't
• 17:13
  even
• 17:13
  say
• 17:13
  alternatives
• 17:14
  to
• 17:14
  private
• 17:14
  credit,
• 17:15
  but
• 17:15
  just
• 17:15
  something
• 17:15
  else
• 17:16
  to
• 17:16
  consider
• 17:16
  for
• 17:16
  that
• 17:17
  alternative
• 17:17
  sleeve
• 17:18
  that
• 17:18
  you
• 17:18
  talked
• 17:18
  about
• 17:19
  that
• 17:20
  provides
• 17:20
  liquidity,
• 17:21
  which
• 17:22
  you
• 17:23
  know,
• 17:23
  is
• 17:23
  very
• 17:23
  important
• 17:23
  to
• 17:24
  a
• 17:24
  lot
• 17:24
  of
• 17:24
  people.
• 17:25
  Yeah.
• 17:25
  One
• 17:25
  more,
• 17:26
  I
• 17:26
  might,
• 17:26
  I'm
• 17:26
  sorry
• 17:26
  to
• 17:26
  interrupt
• 17:27
  you.
• 17:27
  No,
• 17:27
  go
• 17:27
  ahead,
• 17:27
  Ryan.
• 17:27
  Um,
• 17:28
  one
• 17:28
  more
• 17:28
  that
• 17:28
  I
• 17:29
  might
• 17:29
  add,
• 17:29
  like
• 17:29
  if,
• 17:29
  if
• 17:29
  you
• 17:30
  like,
• 17:30
  if
• 17:30
  you
• 17:31
  like
• 17:31
  credit.
• 17:31
  Um,
• 17:32
  and
• 17:32
  you
• 17:32
  think
• 17:33
  private
• 17:33
  credit
• 17:34
  is
• 17:34
  maybe
• 17:34
  not
• 17:34
  the
• 17:34
  space
• 17:34
  for
• 17:34
  you,
• 17:35
  for
• 17:35
  whatever
• 17:35
  reason.
• 17:35
  Portfolio
• 17:36
  fit,
• 17:36
  valuation,
• 17:37
  concern,
• 17:37
  fundamentals,
• 17:38
  um,
• 17:40
  like
• 17:41
  get
• 17:41
  into
• 17:41
  high
• 17:41
  yield,
• 17:42
  but
• 17:42
  with
• 17:42
  a
• 17:42
  credit
• 17:43
  hedge.
• 17:43
  I
• 17:43
  mean,
• 17:43
  we
• 17:43
  do
• 17:43
  this,
• 17:44
  um,
• 17:44
  one
• 17:44
  of
• 17:44
  our
• 17:45
  portfolio,
• 17:45
  our,
• 17:45
  our
• 17:46
  high
• 17:46
  yield
• 17:46
  portfolio
• 17:47
  is
• 17:47
  built
• 17:48
  with
• 17:50
  benchmark,
• 17:51
  like
• 17:51
  high
• 17:51
  yield
• 17:52
  exposure,
• 17:53
  but
• 17:53
  then
• 17:53
  we
• 17:53
  put
• 17:54
  a
• 17:54
  credit
• 17:54
  hedge
• 17:54
  on
• 17:54
  top
• 17:55
  of
• 17:55
  that.
• 17:55
  So
• 17:55
  if
• 17:55
  you,
• 17:55
  if
• 17:55
  you
• 17:56
  think
• 17:56
  I'm
• 17:56
  gonna
• 17:56
  wanna
• 17:56
  be
• 17:56
  in
• 17:57
  this
• 17:57
  at
• 17:57
  some
• 17:57
  point,
• 17:58
  don't
• 17:58
  bother
• 17:58
  market
• 17:58
  timing
• 17:59
  it.
• 17:59
  Yeah,
• 18:00
  that's
• 18:00
  hard
• 18:00
  to
• 18:01
  do.
• 18:01
  Um,
• 18:02
  you
• 18:02
  know,
• 18:02
  but
• 18:02
  if
• 18:02
  you
• 18:02
  get
• 18:03
  into
• 18:03
  something
• 18:03
  where
• 18:03
  you
• 18:03
  have
• 18:04
  a
• 18:04
  structural
• 18:05
  page
• 18:06
  that
• 18:06
  should
• 18:06
  cushion
• 18:07
  the
• 18:07
  exposure
• 18:08
  in
• 18:08
  the
• 18:08
  event
• 18:08
  of
• 18:08
  a
• 18:08
  drawdown
• 18:09
  and
• 18:10
  adds
• 18:10
  to
• 18:10
  your
• 18:11
  return
• 18:11
  over
• 18:11
  the
• 18:12
  course
• 18:12
  of
• 18:12
  time.
• 18:12
  'cause
• 18:12
  it's
• 18:12
  not
• 18:13
  a
• 18:13
  direct
• 18:13
  page,
• 18:13
  it's
• 18:13
  an
• 18:14
  indirect
• 18:14
  page.
• 18:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:15
  Um,
• 18:15
  that
• 18:15
  should
• 18:16
  be
• 18:16
  very
• 18:16
  valuable
• 18:16
  as
• 18:17
  well.
• 18:17
  Yeah.
• 18:17
  Fantastic.
• 18:18
  Chris.
• 18:19
  Lastly,
• 18:20
  whether
• 18:21
  it
• 18:21
  is
• 18:21
  through
• 18:22
  managed
• 18:22
  futures
• 18:23
  or
• 18:23
  private
• 18:23
  credit
• 18:24
  or
• 18:24
  you
• 18:24
  know,
• 18:25
  some
• 18:25
  currency
• 18:25
  product.
• 18:27
  What
• 18:27
  should
• 18:27
  be
• 18:27
  the
• 18:27
  primary
• 18:28
  considerations
• 18:29
  that
• 18:29
  financial
• 18:30
  advisors
• 18:30
  should
• 18:31
  consider
• 18:31
  when,
• 18:32
  you
• 18:32
  know,
• 18:32
  incorporating
• 18:33
  these
• 18:33
  products?
• 18:33
  Obviously
• 18:34
  alignment,
• 18:35
  but
• 18:35
  is
• 18:35
  there
• 18:35
  anything
• 18:36
  else
• 18:36
  that
• 18:36
  they
• 18:36
  should
• 18:37
  think
• 18:37
  about?
• 18:38
  And
• 18:39
  it
• 18:39
  really
• 18:39
  could
• 18:39
  be
• 18:40
  any
• 18:40
  alternative.
• 18:41
  I
• 18:41
  mean,
• 18:41
  there's
• 18:42
  so
• 18:42
  many
• 18:42
  different
• 18:42
  alternatives
• 18:43
  out
• 18:43
  there,
• 18:43
  but
• 18:44
  Yeah.
• 18:45
  Uh,
• 18:45
  to
• 18:45
  me
• 18:45
  it's,
• 18:46
  um,
• 18:47
  peel,
• 18:47
  peel
• 18:47
  back
• 18:48
  the
• 18:48
  label,
• 18:49
  like
• 18:49
  the,
• 18:49
  you
• 18:49
  know,
• 18:50
  label
• 18:50
  does
• 18:50
  not
• 18:50
  equate
• 18:51
  to
• 18:51
  risk.
• 18:52
  Hmm.
• 18:53
  Uh,
• 18:53
  understand
• 18:55
  what
• 18:55
  risks
• 18:55
  you
• 18:55
  are
• 18:56
  underwriting
• 18:56
  and
• 18:56
  make
• 18:57
  sure
• 18:57
  that
• 18:57
  those
• 18:57
  are
• 18:57
  intentional.
• 18:58
  For
• 18:58
  example,
• 18:59
  um,
• 19:00
  you
• 19:00
  know,
• 19:01
  this
• 19:01
  is
• 19:01
  a
• 19:02
  silly
• 19:02
  one,
• 19:03
  but
• 19:03
  we
• 19:04
  use
• 19:04
  a
• 19:04
  lot
• 19:04
  of
• 19:04
  total
• 19:04
  return
• 19:05
  swaps.
• 19:05
  We
• 19:05
  tend
• 19:06
  to
• 19:06
  be
• 19:06
  derivatives
• 19:06
  intensive.
• 19:08
  Um,
• 19:09
  a
• 19:09
  total
• 19:09
  return
• 19:09
  swap
• 19:09
  entails
• 19:10
  some
• 19:10
  counterparty
• 19:11
  risk.
• 19:12
  Like
• 19:12
  it's
• 19:13
  a
• 19:13
  little
• 19:13
  foolish.
• 19:13
  It's
• 19:14
  quite
• 19:14
  rich
• 19:14
  of
• 19:14
  me
• 19:14
  to
• 19:14
  ask
• 19:15
  my
• 19:15
  investors
• 19:15
  to
• 19:16
  get
• 19:16
  paid
• 19:16
  for
• 19:17
  underwriting
• 19:17
  counterparty
• 19:18
  risk.
• 19:18
  Like
• 19:18
  we
• 19:18
  should
• 19:18
  have
• 19:18
  that
• 19:18
  part
• 19:19
  down
• 19:19
  pat.
• 19:20
  Mm-hmm.
• 19:20
  So
• 19:21
  understand
• 19:21
  what.
• 19:22
  What
• 19:22
  exposures
• 19:23
  you're
• 19:23
  getting.
• 19:24
  Make
• 19:24
  sure
• 19:24
  you're
• 19:25
  getting
• 19:25
  paid
• 19:25
  for
• 19:25
  them
• 19:26
  and
• 19:26
  that's
• 19:26
  before,
• 19:27
  you
• 19:27
  know,
• 19:27
  that's
• 19:28
  either
• 19:28
  before
• 19:29
  or
• 19:29
  after
• 19:29
  you
• 19:29
  get
• 19:29
  to
• 19:30
  the
• 19:30
  issues.
• 19:30
  You
• 19:30
  mentioned
• 19:30
  a
• 19:30
  fit
• 19:31
  within
• 19:31
  a
• 19:31
  portfolio.
• 19:32
  Yeah.
• 19:33
  Chris,
• 19:34
  fantastic.
• 19:36
  Love
• 19:36
  the
• 19:36
  conversation.
• 19:37
  Really
• 19:37
  timely,
• 19:38
  important
• 19:39
  conversation
• 19:40
  too.
• 19:40
  Like
• 19:40
  I,
• 19:40
  I
• 19:41
  agree
• 19:41
  that
• 19:42
  yes,
• 19:43
  there's
• 19:43
  some
• 19:44
  issues
• 19:44
  out
• 19:45
  there
• 19:45
  and
• 19:45
  some
• 19:45
  of
• 19:45
  the,
• 19:45
  it
• 19:45
  is
• 19:46
  warranted
• 19:46
  with
• 19:46
  private
• 19:47
  credit,
• 19:47
  but.
• 19:48
  Is
• 19:48
  it
• 19:48
  a
• 19:48
  full
• 19:49
  blown
• 19:49
  on
• 19:49
  crisis?
• 19:50
  Probably
• 19:50
  not.
• 19:51
  Like
• 19:51
  the
• 19:51
  headlines
• 19:51
  say,
• 19:52
  um,
• 19:53
  pick
• 19:53
  and
• 19:53
  choose.
• 19:54
  You
• 19:54
  gotta
• 19:54
  do
• 19:54
  your
• 19:54
  due
• 19:54
  diligence.
• 19:55
  Like
• 19:56
  maybe
• 19:56
  more,
• 19:57
  do
• 19:57
  more
• 19:57
  due
• 19:57
  diligence
• 19:58
  now
• 19:58
  than
• 19:58
  before.
• 19:59
  But,
• 19:59
  um,
• 20:00
  fantastic
• 20:00
  conversation.
• 20:02
  Thank
• 20:02
  you
• 20:02
  so
• 20:02
  much.
• 20:02
  Such
• 20:03
  an
• 20:03
  honor
• 20:03
  to
• 20:03
  have
• 20:03
  your
• 20:03
  own.
• 20:03
  Where
• 20:04
  can
• 20:04
  our
• 20:04
  audience
• 20:04
  get
• 20:04
  more
• 20:05
  information
• 20:06
  about
• 20:06
  simplify
• 20:07
  asset
• 20:07
  management?
• 20:08
  You
• 20:08
  can
• 20:08
  visit
• 20:08
  our
• 20:08
  website,
• 20:09
  uh,
• 20:10
  www
• 20:11
  dot
• 20:11
  simplify
• 20:12
  us.
• 20:13
  Uh,
• 20:13
  please
• 20:14
  don't
• 20:14
  hesitate
• 20:14
  to
• 20:15
  reach
• 20:15
  out.
• 20:15
  There's
• 20:15
  an
• 20:15
  email,
• 20:16
  there's
• 20:16
  a
• 20:16
  phone
• 20:16
  number
• 20:16
  on
• 20:16
  there.
• 20:17
  We'd
• 20:17
  be
• 20:17
  delighted
• 20:17
  to
• 20:17
  hear
• 20:18
  from
• 20:18
  you.
• 20:18
  Awesome.
• 20:19
  Thank
• 20:19
  you
• 20:19
  Chris,
• 20:20
  and
• 20:20
  thank
• 20:20
  you
• 20:20
  everyone
• 20:21
  for
• 20:21
  listening
• 20:21
  to
• 20:22
  this
• 20:22
  episode
• 20:22
  of
• 20:23
  zephyr's
• 20:23
  Adjusted
• 20:24
  for
• 20:24
  Risk
• 20:24
  podcast.
• 20:25
  You
• 20:25
  can
• 20:25
  watch
• 20:26
  all
• 20:26
  of
• 20:26
  our
• 20:26
  other
• 20:26
  episodes
• 20:27
  on
• 20:27
  the
• 20:27
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• 20:27
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• 20:28
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• 20:28
  Spotify.
• 20:29
  Please
• 20:29
  be
• 20:29
  sure
• 20:30
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• 20:30
  like,
• 20:30
  subscribe
• 20:31
  and
• 20:31
  give
• 20:31
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• 20:31
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• 20:31
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• 20:32
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• 20:32
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• 20:33
  Thank
• 20:33
  you
• 20:33
  very
• 20:33
  much
• 20:33
  and
• 20:34
  have
• 20:34
  a
• 20:34
  great
• 20:34
  rest
• 20:34
  of
• 20:34
  your
• 20:35
  week.
• 20:35
  Thanks
• 20:35
  everyone.
• 20:36
  Let's
• 20:36
  get
• 20:36
  started.