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Hiring Right (Character Over Resume) - Episode 26 · Profit and Principle

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Think about the most expensive hiring mistake you've ever made.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Not the one who just underperformed, the one who actually did damage, the one who left the team worse than they found it.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Relationships were fractured, processes were broken, people were demoralized or worse gone.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: The one whose departure, when it finally came, felt less like a loss and more like a necessary amputation.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now think about what their resume looked like when you hired them.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: My guess is that it was solid.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Their experiences were there, their credentials checked out, and the references, well, they said what references say.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: The interview went well, they were articulate, they asked good questions, and they seemed like exactly what you were looking for.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: The problem was never on the resume.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: The problem was in the character.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: And the resume doesn't tell you that.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Daryl Stein, this is Profit and Principle, and this is the first episode in our People and Relationships block.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: For the next several episodes, we're going to work through the human side of building a business.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to talk about hiring, managing difficult people, conflict, forgiveness in the workplace, and what it looks like to be the kind of leader people actually want to follow.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll start where it all begins with who you let in the door.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Today you'll walk away with three passages that reframe the entire hiring discussion, a clear picture of what you're actually looking for when you hire, and two practices you can put into work in your next hiring decision.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: The business case for hiring character first is as strong as any principle in this entire series, and it can be made on purely pragmatic grounds.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: No faith is required here.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Here's the fundamental problem with skills first hiring.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Skills are visible, but character is not.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: All of that is character.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: And all of that is invisible on paper.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Skill can be learned.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Character in a grown adult is extraordinarily difficult to change.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: The person who is dishonest at 35 is probably going to be dishonest at 40.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: The person who undermines their colleagues at one company will likely do the same at the next company.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: The person who takes credit for other people's work, who manages up brilliantly but treats subordinates with contempt, who cuts corners when no one's looking, these patterns do not resolve themselves when you change the environment.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: They travel.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: This matters especially in small and mid-sized organizations, where one person can have an outsized impact in either direction.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: In a 100-person company, a single, highly skilled but deeply character-flawed hire at a senior level can damage culture, drive out high performers, generate legal exposure, and set the organization back in ways that it takes years to fully repair.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: The cost is rarely captured in the exit interview.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's diffuse, slow building, and vastly disproportionate to whatever value that person's skills delivered.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now the flip side is equally true.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: A person of strong character who has capability gaps is trainable.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: You can develop skills.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: You cannot install integrity.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Every hour spent investing in a person of character compounds.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Every hour spent managing the fallout from a hire who had the skills but not the character, that's pure cost.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is why the most experienced leaders I've observed over time consistently say the same thing.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hire slower, with more focus on character, and almost every other aspect of managing people gets easier.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let's take a look at what Scripture says.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Turn with me to 1 Samuel chapter 16, verse 7.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we read this.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: The context here is one of the most memorable hiring scenes in Scripture.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Samuel has been sent to anoint the next king of Israel from among the sons of Jesse.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: He arrives and sees Eliab, presumably tall, impressive, exactly what a king is supposed to look like.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And Samuel's immediate assessment is, surely this is the one.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: God's response is direct and instructive.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: The Hebrew word for appearance means a visible representation.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that can be immediately seen.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And stature talks about the height of a thing.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Really, it's its impressive external dimension.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: God is explicitly telling Samuel that this natural default, to be drawn to the visually impressive candidate, is not the right criterion.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Man looks on the outward appearance.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: The word that's used here for outward appearance is the same word as the first term that we looked at, right?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: What is presented to the eye.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: God looks at the heart.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when he talks about the heart, it's not just the emotions, but the inner person.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's the seat of someone's will.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And really it's their moral character.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: What God is describing as the real selection criterion is precisely the thing that a resume cannot capture and an interview cannot reliably reveal.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Seven sons of Jesse passed before Samuel.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: None of them are chosen.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: The chosen one, David, is not even in the room.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's in the field doing the unglamorous work nobody else wanted.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: The most qualified person for the most important leadership role in the nation's history was the one who didn't look depart.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: God knew something about his heart that wasn't visible to any human evaluator.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: That is the principle.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a warning to every leader who has ever been charmed by a great interview.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Turn with me to Proverbs chapter 20, verse 6.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: We read this many a man proclaims his own steadfast love, but a faithful man who can find?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Solomon's observation here is essentially a warning about the interview process written 3,000 years before we invented it.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Many a man proclaims his own steadfast love.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now the Hebrew word here for steadfast love, it translates a very rich word in the Old Testament.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's talking about covenant faithfulness, a loyal commitment.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's the word used for God's unfailing love for his people.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And Solomon's point is that many people use this word, or its equivalent, about themselves.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Many people claim to be exactly this kind of person, but a faithful man, someone who is trustworthy, reliable, and steady.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, who can find that person?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: The rhetorical question here is pointed.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: The thing being described is rare.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Not because people are lying necessarily, but because this quality is something that only reveals itself under pressure over time and in the moments when loyalty is costly.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: It cannot be assessed in a 90-minute interview.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: It can only be observed.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: For the hiring leader, Solomon's warning is practical.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Be skeptical of self-reported character.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Almost every candidate in an interview will tell you that they are honest, reliable, a team player, and someone who takes ownership.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they may even believe it.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: The only way to actually know is to look at the pattern of what they've done, not what they say about themselves.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: References matter.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Past behavior patterns matter.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: The stories people tell about how they handled difficulty matter far more than their stated values.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, let's look at Proverbs chapter 25, verse 19.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: We read this: trusting in a treacherous man in time of trouble is like a bad tooth or a foot that slips.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Solomon is a master of the physical image that lodges in the mind.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And this one is particularly sharp.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: A bad tooth and a foot that slips both share the same characteristic.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: They fail at the exact moment that you need them.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: The tooth is fine during the easy meal.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's the hard bite that reveals the problem.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: The foot is fine on flat ground.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's the steep or unstable terrain that exposes the weakness.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: The Hebrew word here for treacherous refers to someone who acts deceitfully or deals faithlessly.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: You can't count on this person when the stakes are real.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Solomon's point is that the person isn't necessarily malicious.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's that their character has a structural weakness that will only become visible when the situation demands something they cannot provide.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: In business terms, the character problem you couldn't see during the hiring will become visible during the crisis.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: When the client relationship is under pressure, when the team is stretched and resentments surface, when the financial situation requires sacrifice and someone has to decide whether their personal interest or their organization's interest comes first.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: That is when this really gets revealed.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And by then, you are already in the difficult situation, leaning on the bad tooth, and the tooth is letting you down.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hire for how people perform under pressure, because that's the only version of the person you will actually be managing.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Let me give you two sides of this from the same organization.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: A fast-growing professional services firm makes two hires in the same quarter.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Both are senior.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Both come with strong credentials.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: The first hire, I'll call him Marcus.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he's the most impressive candidate they've ever interviewed.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: He is articulate, polished, deeply knowledgeable, and his references are excellent.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: He also has a pattern in his work history that the hiring team noted but explained away.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's never been at a company more than two years.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason he gives, it's always framed as his own decisions.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: They tell themselves that he's ambitious.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Within 18 months, the pattern reveals itself.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Marcus manages up skillfully and manages sideways destructively.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: His team's turnover rate is double the company average.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Two of the firm's most capable employees leave specifically, citing their experience of working with him.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: He's delivering results, which makes the situation complicated, but the organizational damage is real and compounding.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: The second hire, let's call her Rena, has a less impressive resume.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Her experience is narrower.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: She came from a smaller firm, and she's not the most polished interviewer.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: But the hiring manager called four of her former colleagues, not just the references she provided, and heard the same from all four.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Rena is someone you could follow into a difficult situation.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: She tells the truth even when it's inconvenient.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: She gives credit freely and takes accountability readily.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Within the same 18 months, Rena has built one of the most cohesive and productive teams in the firm.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: People want to be transferred to her division.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Same timeline, same organization.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: The resume predicted Marcus.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: The character predicted Rena.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Solomon saw this coming 3,000 years ago.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So two things you can do this week.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, for your next hire, go beyond the provided references.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: The references a candidate provides are the people they know will speak well of them.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's not useless information, but it's filtered information.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Call people who are not on the list.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: If the candidate has worked in your industry, you may be one or two connections away from someone who knows them from a different angle.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps it's a former colleague, a peer from a past role, or someone who is managed by them rather than above them.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: The specific question you're asking in those conversations is not what were their strengths, but ask this.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me about a time when something went wrong and how they handled it?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And also you can ask this other question: how did they treat people who couldn't do anything for them?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Those two questions will tell you much more about their character than 30 minutes of structured interviewing.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: You are looking for their heart.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: You will not find it on a resume, but you may find it in one of those conversations.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Second, add at least one character-specific question to your standard interview process.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Not a values question.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone has good values in an interview, but a behavioral question that requires a specific story.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Something like, tell me about a time you had to deliver bad news to someone above you.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: What did you say and how do they respond?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or what about this?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Describe a situation where you were given credit for something you didn't fully deserve.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe even this one, tell me about someone who reported to you who was wrong about something important.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: How did you handle it?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're listening for three things.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: First, whether they can tell a specific story, or only speaking generalities.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Number two, whether they can take ownership or deflect.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And three, whether the story they tell reveals a pattern of behavior you would want in your organization.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: The candidate who cannot give you a specific story about a difficult moment probably hasn't thought much about who they are under pressure.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: That itself is information.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I want to close with something honest.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: You will not get every hire right.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Even with the best process, even asking the right questions, even going beyond the provided references, character is genuinely difficult to assess from the outside.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: And some people are skilled at presenting a version of themselves that doesn't fully represent who they are.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: You will make mistakes.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is not a failure of the process, it's the inherent difficulty of the task.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: What the principles in today's episode do are shift those odds.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: They don't guarantee a perfect hire, they reduce the probability of the avoidable disaster, the one you could have seen coming if you'd been looking at the right things.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: God told Samuel, man looks on the outward appearance.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's not a condemnation.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's an acknowledgement that we are wired to be impressed by what we can see.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: The discipline is learning to look further, ask differently, and wait longer for the right read on the thing that matters most.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: The people you bring into your organization will shape it in ways you cannot fully predict.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Take that seriously.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Hire slowly.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Ask hard questions.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Check carefully, and then trust the process.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let me pray for you.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Father, I pray for every leader listening right now who is making a hiring decision or will be soon.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Give them the patience to let pass ye impressive presentation to the character underneath.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Give them the wisdom to ask the questions that reveal who a person actually is, not just who they appear to be.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Protect them from the costly mistake of being dazzled by credentials and missing the heart.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And for the leaders who've already made that mistake and are living with the consequences, give them wisdom and courage for the path forward.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: In Jesus' name, amen.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Want to thank you for joining me for another week of Profit and Principle.
• 18:04
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• 18:05
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• 18:13
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• 18:17
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• 18:21
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• 18:23
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• 18:27
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• 18:29
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• 18:37
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• 18:38
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• 18:41
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• 18:53
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