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What do I need to know about the Divorce Process and how to get ready. · Rock My Finances

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Speaker 1: Unless specifically indicated otherwise. The content expressed are my views
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Speaker 1: only and not necessarily those of Life Pro Asset Management LLC.
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Speaker 1: The content presented is in no way in investment advice, solicitation,
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Speaker 1: or an offer to sell securities or investment advisory services.
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Speaker 1: The material is provided for general information and educational purposes
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Speaker 1: based upon publicly available information from sources believed to be reliable.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to de Rock my Finances show on k FORHD
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Speaker 2: radio and Talk for TV, where we put the fund
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Speaker 2: in finance. Join Powerhouse Jenifer Jos CDFA CMC and private
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Speaker 2: Wealth Advisor as she collaborates with you to create clarity,
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Speaker 2: control and confidence with your money, your way. It's not
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Speaker 2: about the zeros, So what is it all about? Let's
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Speaker 2: find out now? Here's your host and weekly friend, Jennifer Jose.
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Speaker 1: I'm back, so glad you're here with us today. It's
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Speaker 1: going to be a great show. So what have you
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Speaker 1: experienced in the world of divorce? So I've done this
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Speaker 1: three times, I know, and I'm not done yet. Love men,
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Speaker 1: love marriage, loved the whole situation. So first time ended
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Speaker 1: in catastrophe. We were filing for divorce and going through
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Speaker 1: the divorce process. So that was the first time we
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Speaker 1: did not end up fully divorced since of my tragedy
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Speaker 1: during that time. So go back and listen to Divorce
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Speaker 1: Equals Death episode on the podcast if you want to
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Speaker 1: hear what happened with that second marriage. The father of
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Speaker 1: my children, Journey and Parker, we did a cordial divorce,
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Speaker 1: like a financial divorce, and we went through a pair
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Speaker 1: of illegal and then went to an attorney to complete
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Speaker 1: it all and then we had most of it done.
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Speaker 1: And then when we and we still lived together for
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Speaker 1: two years. So after that two years, when we were
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Speaker 1: completely done, hired another attorney to go through the you know,
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Speaker 1: the formalities of completely divorcing, and that was you know
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Speaker 1: what it is, child support, custody, all that great stuff
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Speaker 1: that everybody wants to know about assets, property division all that.
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Speaker 1: Third time, we did a mediator and it went really well,
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Speaker 1: and so, of course it's uncomfortable on all of that stuff,
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Speaker 1: but we agreed on everything already, and so it was
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Speaker 1: just going through the formalities of us you know a
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Speaker 1: few things, because we kept mostly everything separate. So I've
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Speaker 1: been around the block a little bit with divorce. So
2:52
Speaker 1: because of that, I attracted a lot of clients doing
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Speaker 1: the same thing. Of course, because what you know, you
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Speaker 1: kind of put out there and then that's who find you.
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Speaker 1: So I became a certified divorce financial analyst and I
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Speaker 1: have a whole side gig doing that and helping people
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Speaker 1: separate property and helping attorneys and helping attorneys with their
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Speaker 1: clients on the emotional side of things because they literally
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Speaker 1: don't have time to help them with the emotional side
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Speaker 1: of things. And I met Karen Gallagher. I'm so excited.
3:18
Speaker 1: She is such an amazing attorney. So welcome miss Karen
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Speaker 1: Gallagher to Karen Gallagher Costa because she's remarried as well. Congratulations,
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Speaker 1: I'm so glad to have you.
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Speaker 3: How are you, I'm great, Thank you for having me
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Speaker 3: today and yesterdays attorney did eventually get remarried. It can happen.
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Speaker 1: It can't happen how long you've been married.
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Speaker 3: Now three years. We did the ten person COVID wedding,
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Speaker 3: so we managed to squeak it in right under the
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Speaker 3: wire there and going on three years now.
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Speaker 1: Awesome, congratulations. I still love that. I love that.
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Speaker 3: Thank you.
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Speaker 1: So I'm glad as a divorce attorney you did experience
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Speaker 1: a divorce in the beginning, so that you have some
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Speaker 1: experience from it before or during or however that ended
4:00
Speaker 1: up in your crystals. A little bit about that part.
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Speaker 3: Well, I ended up I was married, I took the
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Speaker 3: bar exam, eight months pregnant, had my daughter, Andrea, and
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Speaker 3: then three months after she was born, my husband was
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Speaker 3: a switch what they're called a switch flip schizophrenic, so
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Speaker 3: he was there one day and gone the next. So
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Speaker 3: I'm there with a three month old, no job, and
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Speaker 3: a husband that is not recognizable to me anymore. So
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Speaker 3: what I ended up doing was going through a divorce
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Speaker 3: and it was kind of a long process and more
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Speaker 3: adversarial than it needed to be. So I decided to
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Speaker 3: switch from tax law, which I was doing at the time,
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Speaker 3: into family law, so I could take a more mediation approach,
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Speaker 3: so people wouldn't be putting themselves through all this stress,
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Speaker 3: their children through all this stress, and they would be
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Speaker 3: able to get things done more quickly, easily, and more importantly,
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Speaker 3: less expensively, because it's a very expensive process.
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Speaker 1: Yes, it absolutely can be, for sure, So I appreciate that.
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Speaker 1: So you've you've gone through it yourself, and so you
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Speaker 1: wanted to do more of the mediation type side of things.
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Speaker 1: But then, as I know, because I've referred you so
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Speaker 1: many times, that you are also a pitbull, tell me
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Speaker 1: more about that as well a little bit.
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Speaker 3: I try to keep the gloves off, you know, I
5:11
Speaker 3: do it as easy as possible. The first thing I
5:13
Speaker 3: do is sit down with everyone, try to see what
5:15
Speaker 3: we can agree on. So if we are going to
5:17
Speaker 3: go to court and fight, we're going to fight over
5:18
Speaker 3: you know, two things, not twenty seven. But sometimes you
5:21
Speaker 3: have people on the other side that just don't want
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Speaker 3: to compromise or they need to judge to tell them,
5:26
Speaker 3: and then I'm happy to take the gloves off. I
5:28
Speaker 3: actually had a funny story with one client. She said
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Speaker 3: she was so nervous going into court. She goes his
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Speaker 3: attorney's just so in your face and you're so nice
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Speaker 3: and kind and thoughtful. She goes, but it's like you've
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Speaker 3: got a personality transplant when you went through the metal
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Speaker 3: detector because you were just all up in his face.
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Speaker 3: You wouldn't take any grief from him, and it was just,
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Speaker 3: you know, I was so scared. But then after I
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Speaker 3: saw that, I'm like, oh great, I gotta have the
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Speaker 3: perfect attorney because she doesn't ramp it up, but if
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Speaker 3: she needs to, boy can she do it.
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Speaker 1: And that's the perfect attorney because you never really know
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Speaker 1: what's going to happen until they are the opposing side
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Speaker 1: or any of us. We don't know how any of
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Speaker 1: us are going to handle this until you're actually going
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Speaker 1: through the process. And so people that are listening, if
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Speaker 1: you've gone through divorce, you understand it. If you have
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Speaker 1: friends going through it, you cannot understand until you've actually
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Speaker 1: gone through it. And then each one is different and similar.
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Speaker 1: So we're going to talk more generalities here because obviously
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Speaker 1: we don't know everyone's individual but we love stories too, Karen,
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Speaker 1: so we love that. So there's a few things that
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Speaker 1: let's start from the very beginning of the process. Let's
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Speaker 1: say most of my coaching clients are women, and most
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Speaker 1: of my advising clients are couples. And I always say,
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Speaker 1: you're gonna have more sex and more money. If I
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Speaker 1: am your financial advisers, I want you together, have good
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Speaker 1: on both. We want it all right, So tell me
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Speaker 1: if we are maybe even just contemplating, or even pre
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Speaker 1: nuptial or anything at all, Like, what are some things
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Speaker 1: that you want to make sure that you have in
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Speaker 1: place before you jump into the process.
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Speaker 3: I say, before you even tell the other person you're
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Speaker 3: going to be divorced, you want to have your financial paperwork.
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Speaker 3: Because the one thing I'm sure you found out what
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Speaker 3: the courts too. It doesn't matter what you think you have.
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Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what you know you have. It matters
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Speaker 3: what you can prove you have. So I tell people,
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Speaker 3: get copies of all the financial paperwork, keep an eye
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Speaker 3: on the mail. Get four to one case statements, bank
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Speaker 3: account statements, credit card statements, the last two years of
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Speaker 3: tax returns, including all the attachments such as the W
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Speaker 3: twos and ten ninety nines. Get all that before you
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Speaker 3: say anything, and not only get it, don't stick it
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Speaker 3: in a drawer in your house. Maybe keep it at
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Speaker 3: a friend's house. But what I tell people to do
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Speaker 3: is to scan it and email it to themselves because
7:47
Speaker 3: your spouse may able to destroy the paperwork at your
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Speaker 3: house or your friend's house, but you can't destroy the
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Speaker 3: entire Internet. So if you've emailed it to yourself, you
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Speaker 3: can go back and always access that paperwork that you need.
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Speaker 3: If you don't know exactly where the banking is, try
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Speaker 3: to figure it out, where do you get mail from,
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Speaker 3: where do emails come from? You know, you need the
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Speaker 3: paperwork to prove what you have, and it also saves
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Speaker 3: you a lot of money because at the beginning of
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Speaker 3: the divorce process, you're going to fill out two financial forms.
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Speaker 3: One of them is called a Schedule of Assets and Debts,
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Speaker 3: and it's basically a snapshot of all your assets and debts.
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Speaker 3: And for that form, you're going to need a backup
8:22
Speaker 3: piece of paper for everything on there. If you have
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Speaker 3: a house, you're going to need the deed in the mortgage.
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Speaker 3: You have a car, you're going to need the title
8:28
Speaker 3: and any amount owing on it. These are all things
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Speaker 3: you can get ahead of time and save yourself the
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Speaker 3: time and money. What I do have is people come
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Speaker 3: into my office and I say, okay, I need this
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Speaker 3: financial paperwork. They're like, I don't know, Well do you
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Speaker 3: know what you have? I don't know. So what I
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Speaker 3: tell people is you need to be aware of your
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Speaker 3: finances within the household, whether you are doing it or not.
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Speaker 3: You need to sit down at least once every six
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Speaker 3: months and just know where everything is, you know, not
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Speaker 3: only for a divorce. When my father died very suddenly,
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Speaker 3: he hadn't gone over All the paperwork was with my mom,
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Speaker 3: so we had to resort to sorting through filing cabinets
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Speaker 3: trying to figure out what the assets and debts were. Thankfully,
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Speaker 3: my father was a very organized person, so one trick
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Speaker 3: through the filing cabinet and we had everything, you know,
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Speaker 3: except for occasionally we still get a piece of mail
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Speaker 3: with some investment we didn't know about. You don't want
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Speaker 3: to put yourself in that position, whether you're getting divorced
9:21
Speaker 3: or whether something happens to your spouse. Another thing I
9:25
Speaker 3: like to tell people to do is you can get
9:27
Speaker 3: your annual credit report dot com. That is your free
9:30
Speaker 3: one that the government allows you to get once a year,
9:33
Speaker 3: so you can find out what debts are in your name.
9:36
Speaker 3: I had a client that just turned everything over to
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Speaker 3: his wife after he had a heart attack. He let
9:42
Speaker 3: her do everything. She racked up two hundred and fifty
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Speaker 3: thousand dollars in credit card debt that he didn't know
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Speaker 3: about because he never sat down with her to do
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Speaker 3: the paperwork. And when they got divorced, did she get
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Speaker 3: Was she responsible for all of it? What do you think,
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Speaker 3: Jennifer Nope, fifty yep, community debt. He was responsible for
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Speaker 3: half that debt even though he didn't know about it.
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Speaker 3: He didn't sign for any of it, and he didn't
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Speaker 3: charge any of it. So I tell people, if you do,
10:10
Speaker 3: don't do anything else. Get that annual freecreditreport dot com
10:14
Speaker 3: from the government. It gets you. It's allowed by the
10:17
Speaker 3: government for free. If you get on another website. There's
10:20
Speaker 3: a lot of copycap sites. If they ask you for
10:22
Speaker 3: a credit card number, you're on the wrong site. Get
10:24
Speaker 3: out of there, go back to the other one.
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Speaker 1: So here's the question for you. I had a client
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Speaker 1: whose husband had two or three credit cards in his name.
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Speaker 1: Only that's not going to show on her credit report. Correct.
10:38
Speaker 3: It could if you're married. It depends on the credit bureau.
10:40
Speaker 3: Sometimes they report it to both and sometimes they don't.
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Speaker 1: Okay, So definitely get that credit just to make sure
10:47
Speaker 1: and see where you're at and get that annually. I do.
10:49
Speaker 1: And plus with all the fraud, that is just a
10:52
Speaker 1: good practice to do anyways, no matter what, like you
10:55
Speaker 1: should know what's happening. Takes that credit score. Okay, that's good.
10:59
Speaker 1: So to get statements and banking statements and knowing where
11:05
Speaker 1: things are. Now, of course I have my clients have
11:07
Speaker 1: a monthly money date together so that everyone's on the
11:09
Speaker 1: same page and we're doing financial planning and all of
11:11
Speaker 1: that stuff. However, most of the time you get in
11:14
Speaker 1: a divorce, you're not speaking that great and normally it's
11:16
Speaker 1: about money, so you're not going to be able to
11:18
Speaker 1: get all of that. So now I do have another
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Speaker 1: client that actually was abused severely. He beat her up.
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Speaker 1: She finally left, and she has nothing. She ran out
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Speaker 1: of house without shoes down the street for her life. Right,
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Speaker 1: So he has everything, she has nothing. She has her
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Speaker 1: ideas of everything that she has, but that's all she knows.
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Speaker 1: What do you suggest in that place? Is it up
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Speaker 1: to the other attorney and the spouse to provide that information.
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Speaker 3: It is to provide the initial information because both parties
11:48
Speaker 3: have to fill out that form where you have to
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Speaker 3: attach documentation for everything. That doesn't mean he'll put everything
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Speaker 3: on it. If it's his employer, you can subpoena the
11:57
Speaker 3: employer to get waged and benefit records if you look
12:01
Speaker 3: at his pastub When you get those wage in our records,
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Speaker 3: you can see if any money is going into a
12:05
Speaker 3: four oh one K or a savings account or an IRA.
12:08
Speaker 3: Once you're there, then you'll have the bank that the
12:11
Speaker 3: bank transfer information. Then you can subpoena the bank statements
12:14
Speaker 3: and find out if money is being transferred in or
12:16
Speaker 3: out from any other places. And that's good and yeah,
12:20
Speaker 3: so there are ways to get it, but they're very expensive.
12:23
Speaker 3: But in those situations, that's an all too common scenario
12:27
Speaker 3: that I deal with. And eventually, when they do start
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Speaker 3: paying support, it'll either come from a bank or they'll
12:33
Speaker 3: write them a check, and then you can send a
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Speaker 3: subpoena to that bank for any and all accounts related
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Speaker 3: to this person.
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Speaker 1: After the divorce and you start, well.
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Speaker 3: You'll get temporary support before the doores. Yeah, so once
12:47
Speaker 3: you start getting temporary support, it's either transferred from a
12:50
Speaker 3: bank or it could be directly from his employer. Ideally
12:53
Speaker 3: it is, and then they can't really mess with you
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Speaker 3: on it, because that's a very common game that abusers
12:58
Speaker 3: like to play, is with hold the money, so get kipping.
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Speaker 1: And hide and deny.
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Speaker 3: And I had a jump. I had a client, really
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Speaker 3: nice lady. Her ex husband would take her back for
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Speaker 3: our spouse's support modification after the judgment every couple of years,
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Speaker 3: and when they got divorced, he took all the financial
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Speaker 3: paperwork and hit it in the what we're supposedly garbage
13:20
Speaker 3: cans of sand that were holding the pool cover down.
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Speaker 3: So people will go to really extreme lengths to not share.
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Speaker 3: So that's why I recommend people get as much as
13:29
Speaker 3: they possibly can upfront, and then we can do detective work.
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Speaker 3: In some cases, I had to employ a private I say,
13:35
Speaker 3: go find assets and debts for this person. They'll come
13:37
Speaker 3: back with a report. So there are ways to get
13:40
Speaker 3: at their expensive ways. You can save yourself on average
13:43
Speaker 3: eight to fifteen thousand dollars by having all your paperwork
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Speaker 3: up front, because it costs just that much extra to
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Speaker 3: find it. Do the discovery request, do the demand for
13:52
Speaker 3: production of documents, then do the subpoenas if they don't
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Speaker 3: comply with that. So it's definitely to your benefit to
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Speaker 3: be apprized of all this out of time and to
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Speaker 3: have your coffees firmly squared away where they can't be bothered.
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Speaker 1: There you go, I love that. Okay, So now we
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Speaker 1: have all our paperwork. Maybe we're just we ought we
14:13
Speaker 1: Maybe we're just kind of contemplating of what the divorce
14:17
Speaker 1: looks like. I can't tell you how many times would
14:18
Speaker 1: I know you get as well? So many people the
14:22
Speaker 1: less earner spouse, I won't be gender specific, but the
14:26
Speaker 1: less earner spouse has been told that they're going to
14:31
Speaker 1: make nothing, they're going to get nothing, and to divorce
14:34
Speaker 1: would be devastating all and they believe that until they
14:37
Speaker 1: actually meet with an attorney that says no, no, no,
14:39
Speaker 1: fifty percent half. This is what your support would be.
14:42
Speaker 1: This is how do you when do you recommend someone
14:46
Speaker 1: coming to chat with an attorney for a discovery meeting.
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Speaker 3: As soon as possible, as soon as they're thinking about it,
14:52
Speaker 3: because I'm not going to call the other side and say, oh,
14:54
Speaker 3: guess what they met with me. Legally, I can't talk
14:56
Speaker 3: to anybody if you come to meet with me. If
14:57
Speaker 3: I'm a bolt. So just come meet with me. I
15:00
Speaker 3: tell people, just come me with me. I do charge
15:02
Speaker 3: my hourly rate for it, but I refund that to
15:04
Speaker 3: your account if you retain me. I just that's good.
15:07
Speaker 3: I have. Yeah, I want people to have the proper information.
15:09
Speaker 3: I want people to know their rights. And you left
15:12
Speaker 3: out my favorite one, which is well, I'll tell them
15:14
Speaker 3: you're a bad brother, and they'll never give you the
15:16
Speaker 3: kids if you try to take my.
15:17
Speaker 1: Money one hundred percent exactly.
15:20
Speaker 3: That's yeah, that's it is so. And I have a
15:24
Speaker 3: top ten dissolution threat list, and why all those things
15:26
Speaker 3: are not true. You know, I'm going to take the kids.
15:29
Speaker 3: You know, if you're an AX murderer, maybe, but I'm
15:31
Speaker 3: pretty sure she's not, so she will end up with
15:34
Speaker 3: the custody of the children.
15:35
Speaker 1: You know, it's very difficult to take the children from
15:38
Speaker 1: any parent.
15:40
Speaker 3: It is, yes, very difficult. And that's a number one
15:44
Speaker 3: threat people use, especially of users. And the next is
15:47
Speaker 3: financial control. They'll wipe out all the money, they'll take
15:50
Speaker 3: it all with them and say too bad. Figure it out.
15:52
Speaker 3: You know. We can file for temporary orders to get
15:54
Speaker 3: a support order going so that they do have some
15:56
Speaker 3: income available to them.
15:58
Speaker 1: I have a client right now, the one that's abused,
16:01
Speaker 1: and their attorney is not filing for temporary support. I'm flabbergasted.
16:06
Speaker 1: She I know. I'm like, I don't understand this. He
16:09
Speaker 1: has all the money, all the checking account, the house, everything,
16:12
Speaker 1: all the assets. She literally ran away with stuck like
16:15
Speaker 1: on her bare feet. She has one suitcase that she
16:18
Speaker 1: went back in with a cop to get out, and
16:20
Speaker 1: that's it. And there's no temporary support. She's living on friends, couches, families,
16:24
Speaker 1: couches Like I don't understand. I just and there's I
16:29
Speaker 1: just don't even get that. So how do we pick
16:32
Speaker 1: an attorney?
16:32
Speaker 3: Karen?
16:33
Speaker 1: Not that I thought I was just talking about I
16:35
Speaker 1: can tell you.
16:36
Speaker 3: That who not that way. I always tell people that.
16:39
Speaker 3: I mean, if they call me, they're like, oh, I
16:40
Speaker 3: want to go with you, you know, I'm like, go interview
16:41
Speaker 3: a couple more attorneys, because you need to be really
16:43
Speaker 3: comfortable with this person because they're going to be all
16:45
Speaker 3: up in your business and find out a lot of
16:48
Speaker 3: things about you, and you need to be comfortable enough
16:50
Speaker 3: with them to be honest because the last thing I
16:52
Speaker 3: want to do is find out about something when I'm
16:54
Speaker 3: sitting at the council table in court, because that is
16:56
Speaker 3: not the time to find out about something. They're like, oh, well, yeah,
16:59
Speaker 3: I didn't. It was embarrassing, so I didn't say anything
17:01
Speaker 3: so exactly.
17:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know that about an advisor as well. Right,
17:05
Speaker 1: meet with three different advisors because we're all different, we
17:07
Speaker 1: all have we all come to it from from different ways.
17:10
Speaker 1: But here's the question for you. That's another reason why
17:13
Speaker 1: I refer to you is because I've had people like
17:16
Speaker 1: with this client, it's such a huge firm. I think
17:20
Speaker 1: she talked to the attorney one time and it's been
17:22
Speaker 1: five months and she's into it for I don't even
17:26
Speaker 1: know seven grand already when they're older, would be like
17:29
Speaker 1: three or four thousand to get over the whole thing
17:31
Speaker 1: because it's non contested, Like it's really the most simplest
17:34
Speaker 1: thing that I've I've experienced in divorces. It's like, what
17:37
Speaker 1: do you want you? Okay, let's go, Like it should
17:40
Speaker 1: not be difficult. But they keep racking up the costs
17:43
Speaker 1: with the aids, emailing and texting and or emailing and
17:48
Speaker 1: requesting the same thing five times, and we've already told
17:51
Speaker 1: you we don't have it. So they're billing for all
17:53
Speaker 1: of that. So is there a difference between a small
17:57
Speaker 1: firm or a huge firm? And again, it could just
18:00
Speaker 1: be this one that I'm dealing with right now. But
18:03
Speaker 1: how do you pick the actual attorney?
18:06
Speaker 3: Honestly, it depends on the firm you want to go
18:09
Speaker 3: in and if you meet in their office, you want
18:12
Speaker 3: to see is their office organized? Is it clean? Are
18:15
Speaker 3: their paper stacked up? Do the other people's information. I've
18:18
Speaker 3: actually had people come to me and say I interviewed
18:20
Speaker 3: an attorney and they had other people's files open on
18:24
Speaker 3: their desk, which is a blatant violation of the state
18:27
Speaker 3: bar rules of confidentiality. You look for someone that is responsive.
18:32
Speaker 3: How fast do they respond to you. I mean, if
18:33
Speaker 3: fum vacation, obviously you're going to have to wait away
18:35
Speaker 3: or so, but generally speaking, how fast do they get
18:38
Speaker 3: back you. I've had big firms who are excellent, and
18:40
Speaker 3: I've had big firms such as you described, where you know,
18:43
Speaker 3: the client can't get a callback, they can't get any information.
18:46
Speaker 3: I mean, you could have filed a regular motion and
18:48
Speaker 3: had both an order for fees for her attorney's fees
18:51
Speaker 3: and cost, and for temporary support. You know, within three
18:55
Speaker 3: months max right, let temperary or so five months. And yeah,
19:00
Speaker 3: it's hard with that. I mean, one thing I will
19:02
Speaker 3: emphasize is you're always entitled to get a second opinion
19:05
Speaker 3: from an attorney at any point in the process. Once
19:07
Speaker 3: you sign up with an attorney, you're not married to
19:09
Speaker 3: that attorney, and I would encourage you if you're having
19:13
Speaker 3: issues like that, you know it's your relationship. You are
19:16
Speaker 3: in control of that attorney client relationship. I've had some
19:20
Speaker 3: clients that I wouldn't tell them what they wanted to hear,
19:22
Speaker 3: so they went and found an attorney that would good
19:25
Speaker 3: for them. I'm not going to compromise my integrity or
19:27
Speaker 3: tell them something that's going to be done at the
19:29
Speaker 3: court that's not so.
19:32
Speaker 1: You have to Yeah, and I know your job so
19:34
Speaker 1: hard because you are the truth hammer, and we don't
19:39
Speaker 1: want to hear that truth hammer.
19:41
Speaker 3: Not a lot of times I don't.
19:43
Speaker 1: They don't. Absolutely. So each attorney, can you practice in
19:50
Speaker 1: different counties or states, or you in one county one
19:53
Speaker 1: state when.
19:54
Speaker 3: Your license you're licensed in that state. I do practice
19:58
Speaker 3: in Contracosta County and a couple of surrounding counties. But
20:02
Speaker 3: generally speaking, you want someone that's in the county where
20:05
Speaker 3: your case is, because you have to pay them to
20:07
Speaker 3: drive the court and that can add up. And also,
20:10
Speaker 3: if you're working primarily with the county you work in,
20:12
Speaker 3: you're familiar with the court system and the clerks and
20:15
Speaker 3: how to get things through the process. If you're going
20:17
Speaker 3: out to another county that you don't practice a lot in,
20:19
Speaker 3: then you're not going to have all those ins and outs,
20:22
Speaker 3: and that can.
20:25
Speaker 1: Yeah relationships and this judge this and this judge. Yeah,
20:27
Speaker 1: I can totally get that. So you want an attorney
20:30
Speaker 1: in the county the practice is in the county that
20:32
Speaker 1: you are going to be presiding in. Yeah, correct, Okay,
20:35
Speaker 1: that's correct. Okay, good, So now we're through the process.
20:40
Speaker 1: I don't even want to talk about the whole process
20:41
Speaker 1: because it will get the heck out of people that
20:43
Speaker 1: haven't done it because there's so much to it. But
20:45
Speaker 1: it is piece by piece by piece, and so you
20:47
Speaker 1: hold their hand through this piece so they know what's next.
20:50
Speaker 1: You don't give them all the food that they need
20:52
Speaker 1: to eat for the month up front. You give them
20:54
Speaker 1: each day at a time. That's how I say they
20:58
Speaker 1: from the office.
20:59
Speaker 3: I give them everything. Once they'd runch screen me from
21:01
Speaker 3: the office for anyone.
21:03
Speaker 1: I would too, Yeah, you would, two, we would too.
21:06
Speaker 1: So the legal process we need to understand as much
21:09
Speaker 1: as we need to understand. I can say again, this
21:11
Speaker 1: is the perfect time for me to be talking about
21:12
Speaker 1: this because I'm dealing with this client. We have no
21:14
Speaker 1: idea what they're doing, what their plan is, we have
21:16
Speaker 1: no idea what's next. We don't know when court is,
21:19
Speaker 1: We don't know anything, and they just keep asking for
21:23
Speaker 1: the same paperwork that we've told them that we don't have,
21:25
Speaker 1: like for four months.
21:26
Speaker 3: So I think your clients with her feet at this point,
21:30
Speaker 3: go interview a couple more attorneys and get rid of
21:32
Speaker 3: this firm.
21:32
Speaker 1: That would be my I think, yeah, I think that's
21:34
Speaker 1: what kind of what I'm talking to our kids as well.
21:37
Speaker 1: So that's good. Okay. So the next thing is you
21:39
Speaker 1: are always letting the client know exactly what the next
21:43
Speaker 1: step is, right like, we're doing this to do this,
21:46
Speaker 1: and then that's all they need to know for right now,
21:48
Speaker 1: right so then they know what paperwork's being happening, when
21:51
Speaker 1: it's being filed, and then the court date versus you
21:56
Speaker 1: are negotiating with the other attorney. Possibly sometimes like whatever
22:00
Speaker 1: it is, but the client should always know exactly what's
22:03
Speaker 1: happening through the process.
22:05
Speaker 3: Correct, and I'll give them an overview. It's like, okay,
22:07
Speaker 3: this is directly specifically what we need right now, but
22:10
Speaker 3: after that year, the three or four thing that's going
22:12
Speaker 3: to happen. That kind of keeps things on track.
22:15
Speaker 1: Okay. I love that. And now when you enter children
22:18
Speaker 1: into it, I mean when I did it, we had
22:21
Speaker 1: to go through the mediation process through the courts. Is
22:24
Speaker 1: that still mandatory?
22:26
Speaker 3: That's still the case in California unless you agree on
22:28
Speaker 3: every single thing, including holidays, exchange times, who picks up
22:32
Speaker 3: at school, what time they pick up if there's no school,
22:34
Speaker 3: what time they pick up. There's a lot of details
22:36
Speaker 3: that people missed, you know, and one of them is
22:38
Speaker 3: which school district are the children going to go to
22:41
Speaker 3: school in? The dads are the moms if they live
22:42
Speaker 3: in separate school districts. If your order isn't properly structured
22:46
Speaker 3: for that, you could go to registry your kids for
22:47
Speaker 3: school and find out you can't. So there are details
22:51
Speaker 3: that go into it that people never think about. Yeah.
22:54
Speaker 3: For example, we used to get Christmas orders that would
22:57
Speaker 3: say okay, mom, gets the kids the first half of
23:00
Speaker 3: Christmas break through Christmas Eve. Dad gets them starting at
23:03
Speaker 3: twelve o'clock Christmas Day for the rest of the break. Well,
23:06
Speaker 3: the next year, school got out on the twenty third
23:08
Speaker 3: of December, so mom gets three days, Dad gets ten.
23:12
Speaker 3: So you have to structure it appropriately to say half
23:16
Speaker 3: the break. You know, this parent gets Christmas Eve, this
23:18
Speaker 3: parent gets Christmas. Otherwise they split the days equally, so
23:21
Speaker 3: you don't run into situations like that because the person
23:23
Speaker 3: with ten days was like, nope, that's what the order says.
23:26
Speaker 1: And then who got to go back to court And
23:27
Speaker 1: it's spend more thousands of dollars to get this fit correct.
23:31
Speaker 3: And one thing also a financial thing that people forget
23:34
Speaker 3: to put it there is an annual exchange of tax returns.
23:36
Speaker 3: Because the one thing with child support is once you
23:39
Speaker 3: get that final judgment, there is no retroactivity. So I
23:43
Speaker 3: had a client who said, well, I'll just wait a
23:45
Speaker 3: couple of years, then I'll get a big lump sum.
23:47
Speaker 3: But that's not how it works because the dad didn't
23:50
Speaker 3: have noticed that she wanted more money. So until she
23:53
Speaker 3: files a motion and serves it on him, the court
23:55
Speaker 3: has no jurisdiction to make those orders. So she lost
23:58
Speaker 3: thousands of dollars. And it's actually kind of funny how
24:00
Speaker 3: that case came about because she asked she was getting
24:03
Speaker 3: five hundred dollars for three children, and she's like, can
24:05
Speaker 3: you just chip in fifty dollars for the oldest one's graces?
24:08
Speaker 3: That will really help me out. He did the pound
24:11
Speaker 3: sand you know, bad words, take me to court whatever,
24:14
Speaker 3: So we did. We took him to court. So we
24:16
Speaker 3: ended up paying twelve hundred dollars a month plus a
24:19
Speaker 3: percentage of his income over his base income, plus fifty
24:23
Speaker 3: dollars for the orthodontis. So what a door, I know.
24:26
Speaker 3: And she lost down on a lot of money because
24:29
Speaker 3: she did not know that there is no retroactivity. You
24:31
Speaker 3: can't just go later and get the money back. It's
24:33
Speaker 3: only from the date you file and serve the motion.
24:36
Speaker 3: So if people have the child support, that's child support,
24:39
Speaker 3: yes for sure. And also with child support if you
24:43
Speaker 3: remarry and have another child, that actually helps you out
24:46
Speaker 3: because you have what is called a hardship for your
24:49
Speaker 3: new biological child, and your new spouse's income does not
24:53
Speaker 3: count for the purposes of support. It only counts for
24:55
Speaker 3: what it does for your tax bracket. So if you
24:58
Speaker 3: get remarried and you're an higher tax bracket, your support
25:01
Speaker 3: will actually go up because you have less taxable less
25:05
Speaker 3: net income after taxes.
25:07
Speaker 1: And that's completely the opposite of what I would have thought.
25:09
Speaker 1: Now is each exactly different, each state is different. But
25:12
Speaker 1: in California that's how it works. Okay, Wow, it's very counterintuitive.
25:16
Speaker 3: When I worked for the Department of Child Support Services,
25:19
Speaker 3: you know, people I did that for two years as
25:21
Speaker 3: well before I switched into family law, and they would
25:24
Speaker 3: come in and say, she got remarried and sistre you
25:26
Speaker 3: rerun it. I'm like, you don't want me to do this, buddy,
25:28
Speaker 3: you really don't want me to do this, and they
25:29
Speaker 3: would insist, and then I'd run it and it or
25:31
Speaker 3: ended up exactly how I said it would, oddly, and
25:34
Speaker 3: you know, then they were shots.
25:36
Speaker 1: But oddly.
25:38
Speaker 3: It's very counterintuitive from what you would think. And the
25:41
Speaker 3: same thing. If you're paying support and you have another child,
25:44
Speaker 3: your support will actually go down because you do have
25:46
Speaker 3: that half a hardship for the other child in the house,
25:49
Speaker 3: as well as the tax ramifications of your new spouse.
25:54
Speaker 1: So people sometimes don't want to remarry because they're support
26:00
Speaker 1: will go down. So you're saying that that's not accurate. No,
26:04
Speaker 1: the other way, they do want to remarry if they're
26:07
Speaker 1: paying support because it could go down because now you
26:09
Speaker 1: have another child, right, Okay, Okay, that's good. I love that. Okay,
26:14
Speaker 1: So how what's your longest divorce? How long is it
26:17
Speaker 1: your longest time getting take getting a couple through the
26:21
Speaker 1: process from start to finish.
26:23
Speaker 3: I think it was about five years. And oddly they
26:26
Speaker 3: had no property in common, they had no children in common.
26:30
Speaker 3: But it was an abuse case and if he could
26:32
Speaker 3: keep delaying the process, he could keep controlling what she
26:35
Speaker 3: could do. Yep. So that one went on the way
26:38
Speaker 3: too long. There are things I could file to move
26:40
Speaker 3: the case forward. Is She's like, no, no, no, we'll
26:42
Speaker 3: just see if we can work it out. I don't
26:43
Speaker 3: want to spend the money to go to court. But
26:45
Speaker 3: we could have finished that much sooner had she, you know,
26:48
Speaker 3: let me take the gloves off as it were, and
26:50
Speaker 3: filed the motions to push it through the court. Yeah,
26:53
Speaker 3: that was she wanted to take.
26:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. Until I get that, okay, I.
26:59
Speaker 3: Mean you want to, yeah, resolve it between yourselves. If
27:01
Speaker 3: you can, because otherwise you're throwing it to a stranger
27:04
Speaker 3: up on the bench who has reviewed your file once
27:06
Speaker 3: and is going to make a decision about your children
27:08
Speaker 3: and your finances going forward. So I always tell people,
27:11
Speaker 3: if you can resolve it between yourselves, do It's much
27:14
Speaker 3: better for you, much less stressful. But like I said,
27:17
Speaker 3: there are cases where they need to hear it from
27:18
Speaker 3: the judge, and I had one I'm going to add.
27:22
Speaker 1: I'm going to add in there real quick, do not
27:24
Speaker 1: try to do it yourself until you meet with an
27:26
Speaker 1: attorney to tell you what you're what you should be getting,
27:30
Speaker 1: because there are so many women that try to do
27:32
Speaker 1: it themselves and they're accepting twenty five percent of what
27:34
Speaker 1: they should actually be receiving.
27:36
Speaker 3: Correct, I mean, And you can go back and modify
27:38
Speaker 3: support after that, but it's difficult. You have to have
27:40
Speaker 3: a change of circumstances. So I can also I recommend,
27:44
Speaker 3: if you're doing it yourself, have an attorney in your
27:46
Speaker 3: back pocket where you're just going to consult about things.
27:49
Speaker 3: I also do mediations, and for every mediation I tell
27:52
Speaker 3: both clients I'm here to help you mediate and I
27:54
Speaker 3: give you legal advice. I want you to each go
27:56
Speaker 3: meet with an attorney during the process to find out
27:58
Speaker 3: if what we're doing is fair for you. Thankfully, I've
28:02
Speaker 3: never had any marital settlement agreements. I've drafted to come
28:04
Speaker 3: back with any big changes because we work towards what
28:07
Speaker 3: is fair.
28:09
Speaker 1: Well, I'm plus you know the law as well, yes,
28:11
Speaker 1: so yeah, there are.
28:12
Speaker 3: People I think they know the law. I had one
28:14
Speaker 3: case where a guy submitted his judgment on his own,
28:17
Speaker 3: figured it was done, but the judgment was rejected and
28:19
Speaker 3: he didn't know that and he went and got remarried.
28:23
Speaker 3: So when she wanted to divorce him five years later,
28:26
Speaker 3: it was considered a big and miss marriage. So there
28:29
Speaker 3: was no community property created, so half of her investments,
28:33
Speaker 3: half of all that he didn't get any of it.
28:36
Speaker 3: So do it yourself, but makes if you want to
28:41
Speaker 3: do it yourself, that's fine. There are attorneys that can
28:44
Speaker 3: assist you through the process. I have very reliable document
28:47
Speaker 3: preparers I work for. If you don't want to spend
28:49
Speaker 3: a lot of money, I have great document preparers that
28:52
Speaker 3: I could refer you to that can do the paperwork
28:54
Speaker 3: to make sure it's correct. Then you can pay an
28:56
Speaker 3: attorney for an hour to look it over and then
28:58
Speaker 3: submit it to the court. There are ways to get
29:01
Speaker 3: help without it costing thousands and thousands of dollars.
29:04
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that. So there's so many different variations
29:06
Speaker 1: which I've experienced as well. That's really really good. That's good, correct.
29:10
Speaker 3: And what I might ask for your one client that
29:12
Speaker 3: you're having all the issues with is they have most
29:14
Speaker 3: courts have a family law facilitator that her attorney's employed
29:18
Speaker 3: by the court that will help you for free. So
29:20
Speaker 3: she should check into that in whatever county she in
29:23
Speaker 3: is in. And first she'd have to ditch the attorney
29:26
Speaker 3: and go and say, hey, I really need support, can
29:27
Speaker 3: you help me with this paperwork? And they will help
29:29
Speaker 3: her get that drafted and filed.
29:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, Harr's spouse doesn't even have an attorney. Okay, so
29:36
Speaker 1: she could do the same thing. That's what I was saying. Okay, Yeah,
29:39
Speaker 1: that's she's the one that.
29:40
Speaker 3: Should do it. Yeah, she should go in and say
29:41
Speaker 3: I want to use a facilitator and just get some
29:44
Speaker 3: immediate help.
29:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good idea. Okay, So now I know
29:48
Speaker 1: we could talk about child custoding and all the ins
29:50
Speaker 1: and outs. We'll have to do another podcast on that
29:52
Speaker 1: because there's a crack ton there. So let's go to
29:55
Speaker 1: property division. I know we're in California, where fifty to
29:58
Speaker 1: fifty When have you seen? Oh, here's here's one for you. Okay,
30:03
Speaker 1: So one one person comes in with, say, you know,
30:09
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollars and puts it down. They're married.
30:12
Speaker 1: He comes in with one hundred thousand, puts it down
30:14
Speaker 1: on their very first home. They they're both on the home.
30:17
Speaker 1: They get the loan, and now it's you know, three
30:19
Speaker 1: four homes later, and that one hundred thousand dollars has
30:22
Speaker 1: just rolled over to all those homes. Legally, Uh does
30:31
Speaker 1: he have to get that hundred thousand dollars back?
30:34
Speaker 3: It depends on how many times it's been ruled around.
30:36
Speaker 3: After it's been rolled over a couple of times, it's
30:39
Speaker 3: just oh, pretty much considered community. That's what I thought, right,
30:43
Speaker 3: And they do have actuary reason will calculate if someone
30:47
Speaker 3: puts a separate property down payment into a home, how
30:49
Speaker 3: much of that home is community, how much is separate?
30:51
Speaker 3: And I have companies that I use for that that
30:53
Speaker 3: I use all the time, and they'll send you a
30:55
Speaker 3: nice detailed report on you know, X number of dollars
30:58
Speaker 3: is community. That's what you have to say.
31:01
Speaker 1: So this was my that makes totally sense. Now this
31:05
Speaker 1: this was rolled over like they've been married like twenty
31:09
Speaker 1: five years or something, so it's been rolled over several times.
31:13
Speaker 1: And she, out of the goodness of her heart, said,
31:17
Speaker 1: you're right. You came in with that money. You know,
31:20
Speaker 1: I'm fine with that. And that was in the beginning
31:22
Speaker 1: of all the negotiations of everything, right, and so then
31:25
Speaker 1: they end up finalizing everything, and now the first payment
31:30
Speaker 1: for support and child so both the both supports are there,
31:37
Speaker 1: maintenance and support whatever they call it. And now he's mad.
31:41
Speaker 1: So now he starts playing games about all this other stuff.
31:46
Speaker 1: And she's like, I wish I would have never given
31:48
Speaker 1: him that money because she did that out of the
31:51
Speaker 1: goodness of her heart, which she did not have to do,
31:54
Speaker 1: and now he's making our life miserable. So yeah, I know.
32:00
Speaker 3: Good.
32:01
Speaker 1: Now. I know it's hard, like you can't tell who's
32:03
Speaker 1: going to do what. But in my experience of I'm
32:06
Speaker 1: probably just into several hundred divorces or people going through divorces,
32:10
Speaker 1: I've had maybe twenty percent go the way we thought
32:15
Speaker 1: it would exactly.
32:18
Speaker 3: I say, the first thing you should probably erase from
32:20
Speaker 3: your vocabulary is well, they would never because I don't
32:24
Speaker 3: know until you get into the process and people use
32:28
Speaker 3: finances to control. I mean, you can agree to anything
32:31
Speaker 3: you want and the court will sign off on it
32:33
Speaker 3: as long as it's reasonable. So the fact she agreed
32:36
Speaker 3: to the one hundred thousand and gave it back, that's fine.
32:39
Speaker 3: She can go to the Department of Child Sport Services
32:42
Speaker 3: and have them enforced support to put a third party
32:44
Speaker 3: in between the two of them so that you can't
32:46
Speaker 3: harass her as much.
32:48
Speaker 1: Well, everything he's doing is almost legal. I'd say eighty
32:54
Speaker 1: percent of it is almost. It's just the other that
32:57
Speaker 1: it's like nitpicking. But it's racking up to be several
33:00
Speaker 1: thousand dollars of different things. So it's just unfortunately, because
33:04
Speaker 1: I was trying to tell you know, I was trying
33:06
Speaker 1: to tell you this is going to happen, and then
33:10
Speaker 1: she's like, you're right. Everything he's dead is right as company.
33:12
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, well guess what you're single now, and
33:14
Speaker 1: so now we get doing on that part, right, Okay,
33:17
Speaker 1: So frustrating division doesn't matter. If it does, I mean, no,
33:21
Speaker 1: I know we're in California. But it doesn't matter if
33:24
Speaker 1: they're on the deed of the house. It doesn't matter,
33:25
Speaker 1: if they're on the credit card, it doesn't matter if
33:27
Speaker 1: they're on the car, it doesn't matter. You're in a marriage.
33:29
Speaker 1: Whoever has, whatever they have, they're responsible for every debt
33:32
Speaker 1: and every everything. Let's say they get they get in
33:35
Speaker 1: a fight, they move out, they get their own apartments, whatever,
33:39
Speaker 1: they're not filed at all. Whatever this spouse does, you're
33:42
Speaker 1: liable for correct correct until you file. And let me
33:47
Speaker 1: ask you this, Can you file for separation and stop
33:49
Speaker 1: the financial as well as filing for divorce? Does that
33:54
Speaker 1: stop the growth of it?
33:56
Speaker 3: Well, those are two separate processes. The only time I
33:59
Speaker 3: would say you would fight for a legal separation it
34:01
Speaker 3: used to be if there was a health insurance issue,
34:03
Speaker 3: but now with cover in California, that's generally not the case.
34:06
Speaker 3: Or if you think there's some point of reconciling. Because
34:08
Speaker 3: they are two separate procedures, they both come with a
34:11
Speaker 3: four hundred and thirty five dollars in this county filing fee,
34:14
Speaker 3: and you'll have to start all over again if you
34:16
Speaker 3: then decide to file for divorce. But when you file
34:19
Speaker 3: for divorce, you're going to have a date of separation
34:21
Speaker 3: on the petition and that's the date that you sees
34:23
Speaker 3: being liable for what they're doing. Now, if you have
34:26
Speaker 3: a community asset and somebody trips and falls in your
34:28
Speaker 3: front yard, you're still a joint owner in that home,
34:31
Speaker 3: so they can still come after you for that sort
34:33
Speaker 3: of thing.
34:35
Speaker 1: But if he goes and racks up, it goes by
34:37
Speaker 1: the maserati. You're not responsible after the date of separation
34:40
Speaker 1: on the divorce.
34:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's on him. And if he goes and uses
34:43
Speaker 3: community property as a down payment, you can go try
34:46
Speaker 3: to take part of his maserati from him and get
34:48
Speaker 3: your down payment back. At least you're half of it.
34:50
Speaker 1: I want half of that masarati. Okay, I love that. Okay.
34:57
Speaker 1: How does the courts look at at home staying at home,
35:08
Speaker 1: raising the family versus the breadwinner in wether the divorce.
35:17
Speaker 3: It's basically just a formula. There's a code section that
35:21
Speaker 3: has fourteen factors that go into what espousal support child supports.
35:25
Speaker 3: Just a formula created by the legislature. It's numbers and
35:27
Speaker 3: numbers out. The judge can't even change it unless the
35:30
Speaker 3: two parties agree, or there's certain really low income guidelines.
35:33
Speaker 3: Spousal support has fourteen factors, and the court can go
35:36
Speaker 3: anywhere with that, you know, such as did you stay
35:39
Speaker 3: home to raise the children so they could advance in
35:41
Speaker 3: their career? Did you support their education? Was their domestic violence?
35:45
Speaker 3: What assets do you have available after the divorce? What
35:48
Speaker 3: is your earning capacity after the divorce? If you supported
35:51
Speaker 3: a spouse through school and you didn't go to school,
35:54
Speaker 3: and then you never went back to school because you
35:55
Speaker 3: were raising the children, those are all the factors they
35:58
Speaker 3: look at that determine support work.
36:01
Speaker 1: How does abuse come into play.
36:03
Speaker 3: It's one of the factors in spouse of support, and
36:05
Speaker 3: it's it's a pretty big factor as far as I
36:10
Speaker 3: like that.
36:10
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk more about that. So let's say a
36:13
Speaker 1: big client right physically abused, went to the hospital, spent
36:18
Speaker 1: a week in the hospital, broke her ribs broke he
36:21
Speaker 1: you know all this, you know all that stuff, and
36:24
Speaker 1: he went to jail and got off the next day
36:29
Speaker 1: on a misdemeanor, even though the cops had to put
36:32
Speaker 1: her in the ambulance. Right somehow, Now it's a misdemeanor
36:37
Speaker 1: and he's at home in their house, no problem, not
36:40
Speaker 1: changing his life at all. And she's in the hospital,
36:43
Speaker 1: so clearly it was abused does and it's uh, he
36:50
Speaker 1: was the breadwinner. She's on disability already from all the
36:54
Speaker 1: other previous abuses, and she want we are thinking, I
37:01
Speaker 1: was thinking fifty to fifty of everything, but are you
37:04
Speaker 1: saying that that could be different because the bell of property.
37:09
Speaker 3: Property is fifty to fifty. But they will look when
37:11
Speaker 3: they're awarding spell support spousal support. Yeah, Like I said,
37:15
Speaker 3: it doesn't affect child support because that's numbers and numbers out,
37:18
Speaker 3: but spousal support, one of those fourteen factors is abuse,
37:21
Speaker 3: and that's something that part will take a look at
37:23
Speaker 3: to make sure that that person can live, you know,
37:27
Speaker 3: at least comfortably. Nobody's going to live at the standard
37:30
Speaker 3: and the code section says you'll live at the standard
37:32
Speaker 3: of living during the marriage. You're now living in two
37:34
Speaker 3: households what you used to live in on one, So
37:37
Speaker 3: that's kind of a fantasy. But we want to make
37:39
Speaker 3: sure everybody is comfortable and can get by.
37:42
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, good to know, good to know, okay, I
37:47
Speaker 1: love that.
37:47
Speaker 3: And as far as dividing the property, I just help
37:50
Speaker 3: it people like it. It's a pie. You can slice
37:52
Speaker 3: it up however you want, as long as it's about equal.
37:55
Speaker 3: You know, we have a spreadsheet, we put everything in.
37:56
Speaker 3: We have what the husband keeps, what the wife keeps.
37:58
Speaker 3: We get to the bottom line. Okay, spouse one, oh,
38:03
Speaker 3: spouse two x number of dollars to equal? I said, okay,
38:06
Speaker 3: do we want to do that? Or do we want
38:07
Speaker 3: to move some assets around so it's a little more equal.
38:10
Speaker 1: And so that's where I commit as a CVFA because
38:13
Speaker 1: I'm looking at long term planning for either both of them.
38:18
Speaker 1: If they're both my clients, I do a lot of
38:20
Speaker 1: joint work or you know, my client to make sure
38:23
Speaker 1: that do you want the real estate? Do you want
38:25
Speaker 1: the equity and the real estate? Do you want the
38:27
Speaker 1: four one k? Or do you want the cash now?
38:29
Speaker 1: Like what's your tax ramifications down the road? And how's
38:33
Speaker 1: that going to help you build your life? If you
38:35
Speaker 1: have no income now and you're going to have support
38:38
Speaker 1: and alimony for say eight nine years, what's going to
38:43
Speaker 1: happen after that? If you cannot create income that's giving
38:46
Speaker 1: you your six figures that the alimony and support is
38:48
Speaker 1: going to be giving you what happens after that when
38:50
Speaker 1: you're still in your forties and you can't touch your
38:52
Speaker 1: retirement accounts until you're sixty like, sometimes that stuff's not
38:56
Speaker 1: looked at individually by the person. So that's where I
39:00
Speaker 1: come in as the CDFA consultation for long term planning.
39:04
Speaker 3: Well, that's why it's great having a person like you,
39:06
Speaker 3: because a lot of people get really attached to the
39:09
Speaker 3: house because they think the kids will stay with them
39:11
Speaker 3: if they keep the house. I mean the reality is
39:13
Speaker 3: if your matter of a fact about it and comfortable,
39:16
Speaker 3: the kids will be comfortable wherever you are. And I
39:18
Speaker 3: see you see more people trying to keep a house,
39:22
Speaker 3: It's just going to be an albatross around their neck.
39:24
Speaker 3: It's like, yes, you can afford the house payment, Are
39:25
Speaker 3: you ever going to Disneyland? Are you ever going to
39:28
Speaker 3: the movies? And you're basing this on support, like you said,
39:31
Speaker 3: you may get for a few years and then it's gone,
39:33
Speaker 3: so you have to plan for that. Can you save
39:35
Speaker 3: that support and it may not be able to hold.
39:38
Speaker 3: I get a drink real quick, sorry.
39:40
Speaker 1: So what I do with that is because I know
39:44
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of my clients have all sold that house.
39:49
Speaker 1: No one has stayed in it, and so I already
39:52
Speaker 1: know when I'm splitting their assets and I'm looking at
39:55
Speaker 1: all of that that I know that I want that.
39:57
Speaker 1: I know that that equity in that house is going
39:59
Speaker 1: to come out in the next year or two, and
40:01
Speaker 1: then what am I going to do with that? So
40:03
Speaker 1: I'm always looking at that because i know they're just
40:07
Speaker 1: not going to be able to stay in that house.
40:08
Speaker 1: So I'm not going to want to, but we all
40:09
Speaker 1: think we need to. And this brings me to my
40:12
Speaker 1: next topic with you is the emotional and psychological well
40:15
Speaker 1: being of the client. Now, this is another reason why
40:18
Speaker 1: I like you personally, because you've been through it, you
40:20
Speaker 1: know it. You can care for the client to a
40:25
Speaker 1: large extent, not that that's part of your job on
40:30
Speaker 1: the emotional side. I think that's another reason why I
40:32
Speaker 1: have the CDFA actually is very helpful because I can
40:36
Speaker 1: I can look at the psychological and I can hold
40:39
Speaker 1: the hands and spend the time more on that and
40:42
Speaker 1: get them to agree to this agreement, but take them
40:46
Speaker 1: through the psychological beliefs and old beliefs and new beliefs
40:49
Speaker 1: and get them empowered to where their new life is
40:51
Speaker 1: going to be. Through this divorce process where there's no
40:54
Speaker 1: way an attorney has time for any that where you're
40:56
Speaker 1: just trying to get this done and save everyone a
40:59
Speaker 1: lot of money and stress and time. So that's where
41:01
Speaker 1: another way, as TVFA comes in. But how does that
41:04
Speaker 1: how do you handle their emotions? Like we are psychic
41:08
Speaker 1: when we're going through a divorce, no matter how easy
41:11
Speaker 1: it is, we literally our doll and our brain left
41:14
Speaker 1: our body.
41:16
Speaker 3: That's entirely true. And I was like that myself when
41:18
Speaker 3: I was getting divorced, and I had all my legal
41:20
Speaker 3: education at that point. So I think it helps that
41:22
Speaker 3: I can say I know exactly where you've been, it's
41:25
Speaker 3: going to be okay, and I do it. Tell all
41:27
Speaker 3: my clients, could you said, some of them are overly nice,
41:29
Speaker 3: like your client with one hundred thousand dollars she gave back.
41:32
Speaker 3: I said, there's kind of a line. There's nice and
41:33
Speaker 3: then on the other side, it's stupid. It's my job
41:36
Speaker 3: to keep you on the side of the line where
41:37
Speaker 3: you're being nice, but you're not going over into giving
41:40
Speaker 3: up something that you really did not have to give up.
41:44
Speaker 3: And emotionally, that's why it's so great to have a
41:45
Speaker 3: resource like you because I can send them to you
41:48
Speaker 3: for the nuts and bolts of what's my future look like.
41:51
Speaker 3: I can't tell you how many people want to, Oh,
41:53
Speaker 3: I'll keep the house, he can keep his retirement. It's like,
41:55
Speaker 3: but wait, let's take a look at this a second.
41:57
Speaker 3: Because you haven't been working the last twenty years, you
42:00
Speaker 3: do not have social security built up. If he has
42:03
Speaker 3: a pension and you're turning down that pension, or if
42:06
Speaker 3: he has a four oh one K and you're turning
42:07
Speaker 3: down that investment opportunity, where does that leave you when
42:10
Speaker 3: you're sixty sixty five and you go to apply for
42:12
Speaker 3: social Security and you get five hundred dollars a month
42:15
Speaker 3: because that's all you've earned.
42:17
Speaker 1: So we get half of his as long as all
42:20
Speaker 1: the parameters, so we plan for that. So going through
42:22
Speaker 1: a divorce, you really do need to meet with the
42:24
Speaker 1: financial planner, preferably me, of course, because I'm kind of
42:28
Speaker 1: out of course, it's just right, and like plan plan
42:35
Speaker 1: the rest of your life to make sure that this
42:36
Speaker 1: money and what you're doing, because there is a lot,
42:39
Speaker 1: like you said, it is a pie, and there's a
42:40
Speaker 1: lot of negotiations here and there because and I've been
42:43
Speaker 1: on both sides of the pie, right, the breadwinner and
42:46
Speaker 1: the non breadwinner. Right have I ever been Yes? I
42:50
Speaker 1: have not really. I think I'm always the breadwinner, but
42:52
Speaker 1: that's okay. I've been equal and the breadwinner. So I
42:56
Speaker 1: know the tax ramifications of that as well. So we
42:58
Speaker 1: definitely like like like who takes the children as dependent?
43:03
Speaker 1: How do you see that happening most of the time.
43:06
Speaker 3: Most of the time, if there's more than one child,
43:07
Speaker 3: each takes one. And then the language they forget a
43:10
Speaker 3: lot of the time is that when the first one
43:12
Speaker 3: age is how you alternate years with the other one.
43:14
Speaker 3: Sometimes there's a really highway jurner and a really low
43:17
Speaker 3: wage journer and it is better for the highway journer
43:21
Speaker 3: to take it. But you want to look out for
43:23
Speaker 3: is that is one of the factors when they calculate
43:25
Speaker 3: child support. So if they're claiming the children as dependents
43:28
Speaker 3: on their taxes and then running the child support as
43:31
Speaker 3: if the other parent is claiming them, they're actually cheating
43:34
Speaker 3: and not paying as much as they should be, and
43:37
Speaker 3: vice versa. You need to make sure when you fill
43:39
Speaker 3: out that form for the support that whoever is keeping
43:41
Speaker 3: those dependents on their taxes. That's how it's listed when
43:44
Speaker 3: they calculate child support. Otherwise they're getting both because you
43:48
Speaker 3: either pay lesson support and get the deductions, or you
43:50
Speaker 3: pay more in support and don't get the deductions. But
43:53
Speaker 3: they're double dipping if they kind of shift it to
43:55
Speaker 3: do it both ways.
43:57
Speaker 1: Oh, that's good, that's good.
43:58
Speaker 3: And that's another little thing that people just don't even
44:01
Speaker 3: think to ask. They don't even know to ask that.
44:03
Speaker 1: They would never and I would, I didn't even know
44:05
Speaker 1: to do that. I I like, well, again, the higher
44:09
Speaker 1: wage earner to have because they get more of that deduction,
44:13
Speaker 1: But what are you going to give the lower wage journer, Like,
44:16
Speaker 1: there's got to be a give and take, right it is.
44:19
Speaker 3: And if you put if you put it in the
44:20
Speaker 3: in those support calculations, that that person is keeping the dependence,
44:23
Speaker 3: they will be paying more monthly to the parent that
44:26
Speaker 3: is not taking them as dependence.
44:28
Speaker 1: Okay, that's good, awesome, Okay, So now you mentioned earlier
44:31
Speaker 1: health insurance benefits. I know a lot of people like
44:34
Speaker 1: the abused one, did not she she is not going
44:36
Speaker 1: to sh pay for her own health insurance. Now, there's
44:38
Speaker 1: no way she's going to be able to afford twelve
44:40
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month or whatever it is in her
44:43
Speaker 1: in her county. So do people stay? Can they file
44:47
Speaker 1: for divorce, go through the process and not become finalized
44:51
Speaker 1: for like another year or two until this person gets
44:54
Speaker 1: on their feet.
44:55
Speaker 3: They can, they can, they can do that, or you
44:57
Speaker 3: can also ask for additional spells support to cut the
45:00
Speaker 3: amount of the health insurance. That's another way you can
45:02
Speaker 3: handle that issue.
45:03
Speaker 1: Unless if they don't have that money, then they can stay.
45:05
Speaker 1: It depends on how much money they have if they
45:07
Speaker 1: can do that right.
45:08
Speaker 3: And one of the standard family will or restraining orders
45:10
Speaker 3: when you file for divorce is you cannot change any
45:13
Speaker 3: of that during the divorce process. So if someone does
45:16
Speaker 3: try to change a beneficiary or take money out of
45:19
Speaker 3: a joint account a big sum, or if they try
45:22
Speaker 3: to drop your health insurance in the middle of the
45:24
Speaker 3: divorce proceedings, that's a huge violation and that's something that
45:27
Speaker 3: their attorney should be addressing right away.
45:29
Speaker 1: And they do that often. Actually, and I'm going to
45:32
Speaker 1: add into some a life insurance pro person they do
45:35
Speaker 1: the same thing with life insurance and so this is
45:38
Speaker 1: one of my things that I know I work with
45:40
Speaker 1: you on all the time. I love it to make
45:43
Speaker 1: sure that the clients that are receiving the support have
45:48
Speaker 1: a life insurance policy and if you can, some type
45:52
Speaker 1: of a disability policy on that wage earner spouse, and
45:56
Speaker 1: making sure you are the beneficiary for what equates to
45:59
Speaker 1: your life life and span and money of the support,
46:03
Speaker 1: child support or maintenance support, alimenty, whatever you want to
46:06
Speaker 1: call it, so that if something happens to that person,
46:09
Speaker 1: your life is not affected. Now, I know you can
46:11
Speaker 1: negotiate who's going to pay that premium. I guess it
46:14
Speaker 1: depends on each situation. And we had a case together
46:18
Speaker 1: that was crazy. He was not nice person, and he
46:22
Speaker 1: knew the ins and outs of insurance, so and I
46:25
Speaker 1: was the agent. So he told me that he was
46:26
Speaker 1: now all of a sudden a smoker and a rock
46:29
Speaker 1: climber and a race car driver and all this crazy stuff.
46:32
Speaker 1: So she's paying like five times the amount of the
46:35
Speaker 1: life insurance premium to have the life insurance on him
46:38
Speaker 1: because he's the way journer. But there's no other choice,
46:41
Speaker 1: like you have to do that. So here is what
46:43
Speaker 1: I request that this application and the life insurance has
46:47
Speaker 1: to be during the divorce process because we did not
46:51
Speaker 1: start that until after the divorce was final so in
46:54
Speaker 1: order for her to go back and hold his feet
46:56
Speaker 1: to the fire, she would have cost her several thousand dollars,
46:58
Speaker 1: which was not worth it. So any divorce attorneys out there,
47:01
Speaker 1: any people thinking about this, start the life insurance so
47:05
Speaker 1: that it's finalized before the divorce is finalized, so he
47:08
Speaker 1: or she cannot play those stupid games when you're getting
47:11
Speaker 1: the life insurance.
47:12
Speaker 3: All right, and if they're not paying for the policy themselves,
47:16
Speaker 3: I tell them to at least provide annual proof that
47:18
Speaker 3: the policy is still in effect and that that person
47:20
Speaker 3: remains the beneficiary.
47:22
Speaker 1: And if they don't provide that, how do you do that?
47:25
Speaker 1: Inexpensively require them to provide it.
47:28
Speaker 3: It's no inexpensive way to require them to do it.
47:30
Speaker 3: You can have an attorney sent a very certainly word,
47:32
Speaker 3: but that's basically content of court, so you can take them.
47:35
Speaker 3: That can actually end up being a quasi criminal proceeding.
47:37
Speaker 3: So you want to know if they're really blligerate. You
47:41
Speaker 3: may have to do that, but usually a letter from
47:42
Speaker 3: an attorney's like, hey, you have to provide this, or
47:45
Speaker 3: you could say normally insurance company in themselves.
47:48
Speaker 1: And normally if they're doing that, they're doing a lot
47:50
Speaker 1: of other things. You're probably gonna have to take them
47:52
Speaker 1: back to court anyways, pretty much. Anyway, just.
47:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're not going to okay one, it's usually the
47:59
Speaker 3: whole thing.
48:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, so how many we got one minute left? How
48:02
Speaker 1: many times can you take somebody back to court for
48:06
Speaker 1: support or for anything? Can you?
48:10
Speaker 3: You can't take them back to court. It's once every
48:11
Speaker 3: three years for support unless there's a change of circumstances,
48:14
Speaker 3: which is changing income, got remarried, had another baby, you know,
48:18
Speaker 3: somebody's working, having more income, that sort of thing. As
48:21
Speaker 3: far as once the judgment is final on the property,
48:23
Speaker 3: it's done, so okay, you can't go back to quote
48:26
Speaker 3: on that. But for the support and the custody of visitation,
48:29
Speaker 3: you can go back and tell the children are eighteen
48:31
Speaker 3: or nineteen, as long as there's still a full time
48:34
Speaker 3: Yorrold high school student.
48:36
Speaker 1: So what if you like this gut with one hundred thousand,
48:39
Speaker 1: What if they signed the divorce papers? Wait, no, I
48:44
Speaker 1: don't even know. Yeah, they designed the divorce papers on
48:48
Speaker 1: the property settlement and all of that, but they're not
48:50
Speaker 1: getting the divorce for two more years because of health.
48:54
Speaker 1: Can she go back and change that?
48:56
Speaker 3: Depend on if the property was settled as that part
48:59
Speaker 3: of it. I mean, once there's an order for it,
49:02
Speaker 3: it's an order, and say like court, like's finality of orders,
49:05
Speaker 3: especially when it comes to a divorce.
49:07
Speaker 1: Okay, so once in order, it's an order. You've said
49:09
Speaker 1: so many things here that are so cold, Karen, I
49:12
Speaker 1: can't even tell you. I so appreciate what you do.
49:16
Speaker 1: This is a distressful job, a stressful industry, and I
49:18
Speaker 1: love the way you go to bat and you fight
49:20
Speaker 1: like hell for your clients, and I totally appreciate that.
49:23
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for being on my podcast
49:25
Speaker 1: today and sharing your wisdom with us.
49:28
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for having me. Great to see you.
49:30
Speaker 1: You too, My love talk to you. I want all
49:33
Speaker 1: of your clients to be able to say, I rack
49:35
Speaker 1: my finances before good to me for the divorce excellent,
49:41
Speaker 1: Thank you, bye bye.
49:44
Speaker 2: We appreciate you joining us today, and don't forget to
49:46
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49:50
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49:55
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49:58
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50:02
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50:13
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