Latest / Pop Culture Junkie® / Tilly Norwood and Other AI Nightmares —with Alaina Lightfoot

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Tilly Norwood and Other AI Nightmares —with Alaina Lightfoot · Pop Culture Junkie®

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  ♪ Entertain me, Entertain me right now ♪
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  - Hello, and welcome to the Pop Culture Junkie podcast.
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  I'm Olivia, here with my partner in podcasting.
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  I'm Shauna.
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  And today we're here to talk about
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  one of the Horrors of the Modern World.
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  Of course, it is artificial intelligence programs.
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  We've been able here as mere mortals
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  to automate so many mundane tasks,
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  but it has come to the day
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  where we are starting to steal
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  the work of writers, artists, and other creator types.
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  While actually stealing people's digital likeness
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  to create this, not only that,
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  we recently learned of the existence of a Tilly Norwood,
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  an AI “actress."
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  And so to talk about this,
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  we wanted to actually chat with a working actor
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  who has a thought or two on the subject.
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  So we're joined today by Alaina Lightfoot,
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  who is an actor, a writer, a director,
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  and a producer in LA.
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  Her body of work includes commercials, web series,
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  and several films which have been featured in festivals,
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  including Studio City of Film Festival,
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  great film festival of 2025.
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  And like any good multi-hyphenant in this world,
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  she also creates her own work,
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  including her most recent short film, "Skin of Your Teeth".
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  So Alaina, I want to hear a little bit more
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  about your background, like what brought you into acting?
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  - Yeah, hi.
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  (laughing)
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  Thank you for being on the show with us.
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  - Yeah, I'm excited to be here.
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  So it all started when I was born.
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  - No, I know.
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  (laughing)
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  - Yeah, you will be a little bit,
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  like I have always just kind of wanted to perform.
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  It's been something that I've really enjoyed since.
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  I was very young, like I was leading my kindergarten play,
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  okay, so that's a broad grenade player.
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  - A broad grenade player.
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  - And then, you know, as I got older,
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  I started getting more serious about it,
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  started like branching out into like more local
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  and regional productions, started.
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  My background's all in theater.
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  So I kind of came up through theater
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  and then what school got my degree in that
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  and then moved out here to LA to start doing, you know,
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  on screen acting, which has always kind of been
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  what I wanted to do in the long term.
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  It's just that there's not like an abundance of degrees
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  for on screen acting.
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  It's all kind of theater based.
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  So yeah, that's kind of how I got into it.
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  I've always kind of been a performer and a storyteller
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  and it's something that I really, really enjoy doing.
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  So I'm really lucky that it's something that I get
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  to continue to pursue and go after for sure.
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  - That is so cool that you started on the stage
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  and then kind of like moot.
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  Well, you always knew you kind of wanted to be
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  the on screen like you mentioned,
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  but you start on the stage.
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  Do you feel like a lot of actors, like on screen actors
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  kind of started that way?
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  Or I mean, kind of jumped right in.
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  - I think it depends.
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  I think there's definitely a healthy set of folks
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  who just go straight from school to on screen acting.
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  Usually there are people who are lucky enough
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  to live in areas where that's like really big.
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  So places like Atlanta, LA, New York, like where you can
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  just kind of go right out of high school
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  and if you want to be on screen,
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  you can just start going after that.
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  I think that a lot of people come from a more
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  traditional theater background just because it's the easier
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  avenue to get into learning acting.
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  And I also think that it gives you a really strong
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  space to work from.
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  I think that being theater trained definitely
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  has its advantages.
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  It is really different to how you act on screen,
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  but it's a really good place to be able to pull from.
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  - Yeah, I feel like theater is like acting by like fire.
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  You're like doing it so quickly, like you're doing in front
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  of people, you have like immediate reception, right?
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  Where in a movie, it's, you know, you have your cast
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  and then you wait quite a while for it to actually get released
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  and then you get feedback versus like,
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  you're actually seeing faces in a crowd in a theater
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  and a real time feedback where, you know,
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  you really have to learn your jobs and be quick and quick
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  with it and all of those things.
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  So, yeah, no second chance is if you flub a line.
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  - Yeah, so I'm like,
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  "Can we take that back?"
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  (laughing)
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  - Let's do that one again, everybody.
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  (laughing)
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  - That's amazing.
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  And I was looking and I saw that you did improv training
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  at Upright Citizens Brigade.
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  So I'm like, "What was that like?"
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  - But so I'm actually still actively training there right now
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  but it's something that I've really enjoyed.
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  A mentor recommended it to me
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  'cause a lot of my background is in comedy
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  and I just don't have any like any improv training prior to UCB.
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  So she was kind of talking to me and she was like,
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  "You know, I think that that would be the right next step
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  for you as to start getting that improv training
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  and I wasn't sure if I would like it
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  because I'm very much like something that I like
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  about acting as that it's scripted
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  and I'm like, "I'm gonna say it, I'm gonna say it."
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  But it's been really nice and it's already come
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  in really handy in like commercial auditions
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  and things like that.
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  So it's been a lot of fun and I also think it helps me
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  a lot in conversations 'cause like it just in general
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  being able to, it helps you see more present,
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  like listen more, like it definitely comes in
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  in all the areas of acting.
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  It's just that it's, yeah, I don't know.
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  It's been a new experience for sure.
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  - Yeah, that's really cool.
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  I grew up in Chicago.
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  So like second city kid would go there all the time
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  and yeah, very, very familiar.
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  And it's so interesting and such a special talent
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  to have that, you know, physical comedy
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  and quick wit and timing and so.
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  - And to play off of another person, it's like,
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  I think, you know, we could all be funny,
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  but you're up there with another person,
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  you don't know what they're gonna say.
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  So they could just throw off the entire,
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  you're like, "I'm gonna make this skit about chickens."
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  They're like, "No."
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  - That's the thing that has definitely been
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  like such a stretch for me
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  'cause I'm really good at contextual humor.
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  So like if everybody in the room has the same context
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  for what's going on, I'm really good at like,
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  pulling a quick joke, but like within prom,
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  like nobody has any context.
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  Like we're building the context as we go.
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  So like that's been like a huge learning perk for me
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  is like not having that like giving context
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  to be able to pull from and have everyone in the room go,
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  oh, I know what this is.
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  Like, and it's funny.
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  - Yeah, exactly.
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  (laughing)
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  - That's so interesting.
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  Yeah, do you feel like, like was there a piece of media
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  that you saw when you were like young?
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  That was like, "I wanna be that.
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  I know I want this to be my life."
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  - That's such a good question.
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  I don't think there's like any one thing.
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  I for sure credit my sophomore year of high school.
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  I was in our school's production of Oliver
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  and it was like the first really big part I had
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  in what at the time felt like the world's biggest production.
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  Right?
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  Like it's like high school musical, but like to me at the time,
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  I was like, "This is it, we've made it."
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  (laughing)
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  I think that that definitely like is what had me kind of go
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  from being like, "This is the thing I'd really like to do
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  to kind of having a minute of like,
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  oh, like is there like an option here?
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  Like am I maybe like, is there any like level of talent
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  that I could maybe grow here?"
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  So I grew up watching a lot of Disney movies
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  and a lot of like cartoons.
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  So I don't think that I could be acting right there
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  in Disney movies.
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  - I sort of like if this is your thing
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  to look at a movie and say like, "Oh, this thing for sure."
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  - "The luck of the Irish, that's the one."
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  (laughing)
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  - There it is.
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  - It's just a drink.
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  - Sorry for sure.
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  - Bring it absolutely.
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  - I want those roller blades immediately.
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  - That's it's gotta, I have to have it.
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  - Yeah, I'm only in it for the roller blades.
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  (laughing)
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  - I really think that's all it's about for me.
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  If there's no roller blades on set,
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  then I just like--
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  - Then I'm out.
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  - I'm out.
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  - It's my right.
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  - It's simple to man.
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  - I wanna talk about your most recent film, "Skin of Your Teeth."
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  What can you tell us about that?
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  - So this was a short that I like wrote,
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  produced, directed, acted in alongside a friend
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  of my Michaela Miller and we made it.
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  I wrote it based on an interaction that I had at The Dentist,
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  which I think like dentists are already like such a weird
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  thing for people like you have weird hangups
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  about The Dentist.
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  And this dentist I think the hygienist was trying
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  to be really friendly, but like the way
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  that she was being friendly was coming off
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  a little, you know, strange and awkward.
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  And so I kind of wrote the short thinking like,
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  what is the largest possible extension of this awkwardness?
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  And so the dialogue is almost verbatim,
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  exactly what was said in the appointment,
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  but the like energy and the delivery is,
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  it's very like, it's almost like lynchian.
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  Like it's very like out of time,
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  it's very like green like, it's like,
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  and you kind of, it's almost like,
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  not necessarily a horror comedy,
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  but there's like a suspense aspect to it
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  because you're like, are you all good?
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  Why are you okay?
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  Like so, yeah, so I played the hygienist in it
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  and then my from Michaela came on and acted with me
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  and she plays like essentially the me character
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  in the short.
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  So yeah, we wrapped that this spring
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  and then I was doing post on it for a couple of months
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  and now it's at the point where I'm starting to like
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  submit it to film festivals and all that good stuff.
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  So I'm hoping that it'll be showing somewhere
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  sometime soon.
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  - Yeah, that's awesome, that's so exciting.
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  It once it starts being public and you know,
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  can be seen, we'll definitely have to give that a view
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  that sounds awesome.
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  - Yeah, for sure.
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  - I do think that the dentist is like a very real life horror
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  as well.
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  You're like, oh my god, you're in my teeth,
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  you're in my mouth, like what are we doing?
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  And then the person's in here,
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  you're like, you have my life in the palm of your hand right now.
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  Like how do we ultimately do that?
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  - Having a stranger in your mouth is very vulnerable.
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  - Like, I don't think that's the truth.
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  (laughing)
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  If you're more vulnerable than like the guy that colleges,
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  I don't know why, at least there I can like talk to you.
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  - And the dentist, I can't even communicate
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  how I'm feeling with you.
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  - It was like such a strange,
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  because like that's the thing,
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  it's like there's nothing,
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  well there were something she said that were really weird.
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  But like in general, there was nothing she was saying
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  that was like so strange.
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  It was just the context in which it was being said
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  was really strange.
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  Like she's got her hands on my mouth
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  and she's like, oh you have really nice skin
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  and I'm like, this is a weird time to be telling you that.
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  (laughing)
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  - I love your skin.
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  - So weird.
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  - The second you said that, okay.
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  So I had a kidney surgery when I was like 21,
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  everything's fine now.
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  But it was the day before my kidney surgery
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  and you go in and like you see the doctor
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  and I'm like leaving my appointment and he goes,
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  okay see you tomorrow.
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  Well I won't see you, I'll be in you.
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  - I will.
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  - He was like, you won't see me.
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  I'll be in you and I was like, no.
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  - No.
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  - No.
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  - He's getting me.
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  - Like sure.
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  - He gave me three people.
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  - All right, that'll be nice.
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  - He's like, what was her hand?
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  - There we go, there we go.
• 10:44
  - There we go.
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  - That is so threatening.
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  Like, it's like inside of your inside.
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  - Yeah, inside your room.
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  - Yeah.
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  - I really don't need any doctor ever to describe a thing
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  they're about to do to me as being inside me.
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  I feel like that's a hard line.
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  I'd be like, you know what, I'll keep the kidney.
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  I don't, I'm like, I'm gonna step back.
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  - You know what?
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  You know what, let that thing get four times bigger.
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  I don't care.
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  - Well, sit here.
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  - Like, we'll figure it out.
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  - I'm so good.
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  I know that we have the schedule for tomorrow
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  but we're gonna cancel.
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  - Thank you so much.
• 11:19
  - Yeah.
• 11:20
  - I'm a little bit on.
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  - In the moment too and I went and he was like,
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  - You know he was kicking himself too.
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  He's just like shit.
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  - Yeah.
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  - That's not the thing to say.
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  - Or he was like, man, I shot my shot.
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  She was just in it.
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  - Or he was in it.
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  - Now I can move.
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  - Yeah.
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  - If you were like, you could be in me more than
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  any time you want or any way you want.
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  - You'd be like, shh.
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  - Is this how this starts?
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  (laughing)
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  - So surgeons, dentists, they're just like us.
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  - They're just like us.
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  - Like, I'm gonna put your awkward.
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  - You know who can't be that awkward?
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  Because it takes a human to be that awkward.
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  AI.
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  (dramatic music)
• 12:00
  - Today's topic that we really want to dive into
• 12:03
  is actually this AI actress that you've probably seen
• 12:07
  all over the news, social media,
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  and it's caused quite a controversy.
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  So we're here to talk about Tilly Norwood.
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  And despite not being real, she has a backstory.
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  She and heavy quotations was created in 2025 by SheCoya,
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  which is an AI division of Particle Six Group.
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  It's a company founded by a Dutch actress
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  turned producer, Aline Vanderbeld.
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  As of May 2025, Tilly Norwood had an Instagram account
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  where she calls herself an aspiring actress.
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  And according to the Hollywood press talent agents
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  were circling her in order to get her to sign with them.
• 12:52
  - Circling her is so stupid.
• 12:55
  - Who, yeah.
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  - She's gonna have like the coherence to choose one of them
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  after she interviews all of them.
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  She's like, "Mm, doubt one."
• 13:06
  - Well, yeah, it's kind of interesting.
• 13:09
  And maybe you can talk us through what this process
• 13:12
  kind of looks like.
• 13:12
  Like from my understanding, you have actress agents
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  and then studio producers, right?
• 13:19
  So it's essentially they are going straight to the agents
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  and removing the actors and actresses within that process.
• 13:27
  So they're circling the agents.
• 13:30
  Or like the creator of it almost, I guess.
• 13:33
  Does that make sense, no?
• 13:35
  - It does kind of make sense.
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  I also feel like it's important to say that like I think
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  that they're, I don't want to say they're lying
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  'cause that feels really strong,
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  but I don't know that it's true.
• 13:45
  I don't know that it's true.
• 13:46
  It is that agents are circling because here's the thing.
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  Agents make 10% of whatever an actor makes.
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  Like that's industry standard.
• 13:55
  Some people have variations, but that's pretty standard, right?
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  And we don't have any way of proving
• 14:02
  that this creation, this code is profitable at all.
• 14:07
  And so the idea that like agents who are like currently
• 14:11
  usually like they're cutting down rosters
• 14:13
  in a lot of instances.
• 14:14
  They're not taking on a lot of new developing talent right now
• 14:17
  just because of like this state of the industry
• 14:19
  and the recovery from the last several years.
• 14:21
  So the idea that like the agents are, you know,
• 14:26
  chomping at the bit to work with this highly experimental code
• 14:31
  is really laughable to me.
• 14:34
  - Yeah, I agree.
• 14:36
  And I would think that her creator would kind of be her agent,
• 14:40
  right?
• 14:41
  The one who's out there pitching her
• 14:43
  and trying to like get her roles.
• 14:46
  - Won't it keep saying her even though this is,
• 14:49
  yeah, her career program.
• 14:51
  - Yeah.
• 14:52
  - The thing is also I think it's important to remember
• 14:55
  like this came out of an AI production company.
• 14:57
  So if you have this production company
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  and you have the AI productions
• 15:03
  and you have the AI actor, you don't necessarily need
• 15:06
  like an agent or a representative for that code.
• 15:09
  If the same person is in charge of all of that,
• 15:12
  you just simply would plug it in.
• 15:15
  You're not, who's gonna get, hey, do you know what I mean?
• 15:16
  It's all coming from the same individual.
• 15:19
  - Exactly.
• 15:20
  I think like I wonder if,
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  if this is really just performance art
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  or if they really are gonna pitch her
• 15:29
  to be in actual movies with actual actors
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  acting alongside them
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  or if it's just gonna be with an entirely AI created film
• 15:38
  like every single actor and character in the film is AI.
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  And I don't know.
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  Do you see a future ever where there are
• 15:46
  AI actors working alongside real humans
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  like in the same film?
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  - I got, I hope not.
• 15:53
  I really don't for a lot of different reasons,
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  but I think that like a couple things
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  that come immediately to mind like one,
• 16:00
  like the tech, like if you wanna put aside
• 16:02
  how everybody feels about AI
• 16:04
  'cause everybody has like my dog has big feelings about AI.
• 16:07
  (laughing)
• 16:08
  - Oh, it's crazy.
• 16:09
  - Yeah. - You know.
• 16:10
  (laughing)
• 16:11
  - This is like, get her.
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  If you like, like everybody has big feelings
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  but if you wanna put that aside for a second,
• 16:17
  like the tech is just simply not there at the moment, right?
• 16:20
  Like it's really uncanny valley to watch this thing
• 16:24
  try to move and speak and like it's not,
• 16:27
  it doesn't look realistic
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  and I think that not everybody may be experiences
• 16:31
  the uncanny valley effect when looking at it
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  but I would say that most people tend to,
• 16:36
  that's their general reaction, right?
• 16:38
  So that's AI and then be like so much of acting
• 16:43
  is reacting to what's going on around you
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  and what your scene partner is giving you
• 16:48
  and a code can't react.
• 16:50
  It has its code, right?
• 16:52
  And sometimes you plan things going into a scene,
• 16:54
  you do your work, you understand your character,
• 16:56
  you think you know how the scene's generally gonna go,
• 17:00
  you have an understanding of the blocking
• 17:01
  and the camera movement but at the end of the day,
• 17:03
  when that camera rolls and you're in that creative process,
• 17:06
  you're doing something and it just becomes like you
• 17:09
  and the people you're in the scene with
• 17:11
  and it's very much about like,
• 17:13
  I hate to use the word synergy on ironically
• 17:15
  but like the synergy between you and like the people
• 17:18
  that you're acting opposite of.
• 17:19
  And so the idea that an AI would be able to receive
• 17:24
  that input in real time and react to it in a way
• 17:27
  that's meaningful and not just a way
• 17:29
  that was like free programmed is like,
• 17:32
  I don't ever see it working.
• 17:34
  Like put aside the fact that I hope it never comes to pass.
• 17:36
  Like I just don't, I don't know how it would,
• 17:39
  how it would even be possible to be honest.
• 17:42
  - I totally agree.
• 17:43
  And when you think of, you know,
• 17:44
  there's fully CGI characters
• 17:46
  but there's a human doing the acting behind that.
• 17:49
  - Mm-hmm.
• 17:50
  - Yeah, and like a blue suit.
• 17:51
  There's somebody who actually recorded those lines
• 17:54
  and those emotions.
• 17:55
  So that's why it's possible of such a dynamic CG character.
• 17:59
  Like you know, Thanos or, you know,
• 18:02
  any robot you see on screen,
• 18:04
  but like an actual robot where there isn't a person
• 18:08
  controlling it.
• 18:09
  - No.
• 18:10
  - Yeah, I mean, as someone who lives in San Francisco
• 18:15
  and like is so around this AI craze right now,
• 18:19
  I do think it is quite interesting.
• 18:21
  And at my take on a lot of this is this was almost like
• 18:26
  a brilliant outrage marketing campaign.
• 18:29
  - Yeah.
• 18:30
  - A two capture the attention away from OpenAI Sora.
• 18:35
  So Sora is probably the most like advanced AI creation
• 18:40
  right now when it comes to video.
• 18:41
  Like both images and video within AI
• 18:45
  has been very uncanny value, as you said.
• 18:48
  And I am very much one of those people who gets affected.
• 18:51
  We actually did a whole episode about uncanny value.
• 18:53
  - Yeah, that's it.
• 18:54
  - Because it's so in there.
• 18:56
  So go listen to that.
• 18:58
  But if you want to learn more about uncanny value
• 19:01
  and what it means.
• 19:02
  But I do think that before this was released,
• 19:06
  like particle six group, who was this?
• 19:09
  No one knew about this company at all.
• 19:11
  And it truly is like outrage marketing.
• 19:13
  And unfortunately in today's world,
• 19:16
  that is how you capture attention, rage bait.
• 19:20
  Yeah, and maybe this is last half full,
• 19:24
  optimistic version of me where it's like,
• 19:26
  I don't necessarily see a world where people want to
• 19:31
  have a movie fully AI or have an AI actress in there.
• 19:36
  But I do see advertisers doing that.
• 19:39
  Oh, 100%.
• 19:40
  Which is actually quite bad for like people getting into acting, right?
• 19:45
  Because most people start in commercials
• 19:47
  and move into these things.
• 19:48
  And also commercials made the bills.
• 19:51
  Like that's what major bills period.
• 19:53
  Like, they're maybe rare exceptions,
• 19:56
  but I think that a lot of actors,
• 19:58
  like before they ever have a theatrical agent
• 20:00
  before they're ever looking at getting on a show,
• 20:02
  getting on a movie, like they're in commercials.
• 20:04
  They have a commercial agent, like they're auditioning.
• 20:06
  Like, they're not as much anymore,
• 20:09
  but like there's money to be had there.
• 20:10
  You know what I mean?
• 20:11
  And so like, even the idea of replacing commercial actors
• 20:15
  with a program is like, really financially scary
• 20:18
  for everybody who's like not already like an A-list celebrity,
• 20:22
  to be honest.
• 20:23
  I see it getting harder and harder just to not be one
• 20:27
  of those A-list actors or ultimately like a nepot baby, right?
• 20:32
  Like we think about like people who hate nepotism
• 20:35
  within Hollywood, like but support AI.
• 20:38
  Like that's really all you're going to be able to see
• 20:40
  or all of these kids who don't have to you know,
• 20:43
  work their way up and like struggle
• 20:47
  through auditions.
• 20:48
  Yeah, they're very rich.
• 20:50
  They have someone to get them in the room.
• 20:52
  Or they're just like not as pressed to you know,
• 20:55
  get through their bills.
• 20:56
  And what has been really interesting, I mean,
• 20:58
  we saw within the SAG after a strike that there was a big piece
• 21:03
  about AI within that.
• 21:05
  And a lot of studios shied away from using it within that time.
• 21:10
  But now we kind of have this coming back.
• 21:12
  But these A-list actors are starting to really speak out.
• 21:16
  I mean, we saw Scarlett Johansson threaten to sue open AI
• 21:20
  over using a voice similar to her likeness.
• 21:24
  Since this chili norwood has come out,
• 21:26
  we have had actors like Emily Blunt,
• 21:28
  Wippy Goldberg, Natasha Leone-Wang,
• 21:30
  and you know, ultimately the biggest argument with AI
• 21:34
  is that it is digital theft in every sense.
• 21:37
  If you trained your model on all of the internet
• 21:42
  or all of the actresses who have are acted before,
• 21:46
  like that is from all of their performances, 100%.
• 21:50
  You mentioned Sora before.
• 21:52
  And those videos are insane.
• 21:56
  Have you guys seen some of the Sora videos
• 21:58
  that are floating around on the internet
• 22:00
  or have you gotten a Boomer family member
• 22:02
  to send you them over and over again?
• 22:04
  So I have not.
• 22:06
  But I think it's interesting that that's
• 22:09
  like coming up in the conversation
• 22:10
  because just today like SAG after I had to release a statement
• 22:12
  because Brian Cranston's likeness was being used
• 22:15
  without his knowledge or consent in Sora videos.
• 22:18
  And like now that's becoming a huge issue.
• 22:20
  So like, yeah, it's one of those things where,
• 22:23
  and I think that especially like this tele character code,
• 22:27
  whatever you want to call her,
• 22:29
  I refuse to use the word actress, I really do.
• 22:31
  - Yeah, there you go.
• 22:32
  - I think that's good.
• 22:33
  - But I think that there's an added danger
• 22:36
  that's not just like, oh God, like will she like replace actors
• 22:41
  because I don't, the answer is no, that's A.
• 22:43
  And B, like I agree with you, Olivia,
• 22:46
  to some extent I think it has been just really good PR moves
• 22:49
  all over the board, but I think this is why I was really disappointed
• 22:53
  to see it in the traits to begin with.
• 22:55
  And this is why I think this type of creation is dangerous,
• 22:59
  whether it's satire or it's performance art or it's whatever,
• 23:02
  is I know like for myself coming up and growing as an actor
• 23:07
  when I was younger and I see this a lot now
• 23:10
  with a lot of younger actresses especially,
• 23:13
  there is this sense of if you say no,
• 23:16
  if you set a boundary, if you say no,
• 23:18
  I'm not comfortable with that.
• 23:19
  There's 30 girls behind you that'll take your place happily
• 23:22
  and they'll do the thing that you don't wanna do.
• 23:25
  And that's why the union is so important,
• 23:28
  but not every actor can be union right away.
• 23:30
  Like I would love to be union,
• 23:31
  I'm not at that level in my career
• 23:33
  where I can be in the union because if you join union too soon
• 23:37
  and you're not at that level,
• 23:39
  you're not building your body of work to a point
• 23:42
  where it's gonna make sense for you to be in the union.
• 23:44
  And so while you're slow growing and getting to a point
• 23:46
  while you can be in the union,
• 23:47
  you don't have those protections.
• 23:48
  And so it really worries me when I see things like this pop up.
• 23:53
  I mean, even on her Instagram page,
• 23:55
  there are videos like advertising the fact that
• 23:58
  that she can't say no and that that's a waste.
• 24:02
  - Yeah, it's so, it's like creepy.
• 24:04
  - She looks very young.
• 24:07
  - Yeah, no, it's deeply disturbing.
• 24:09
  And it really upsets me that it's even in the conversation
• 24:12
  in the trades because now in the back of your head
• 24:13
  you not only have, okay, there might be 30 girls behind me,
• 24:16
  but we'll take my place.
• 24:18
  Like even if this AI isn't being actively used,
• 24:21
  just having it in the conversation creates the danger
• 24:25
  in people's minds of,
• 24:26
  are they gonna just get a program to come in and do this
• 24:29
  if I want, you know?
• 24:30
  And I think that that's really sad
• 24:32
  and I think it's really scary.
• 24:33
  I think that so many young actresses,
• 24:35
  especially are already so vulnerable.
• 24:37
  And like, I've been really fortunate.
• 24:39
  Like I've had nothing but good experiences
• 24:41
  on every set I've been on,
• 24:42
  but like I have a lot of friends in the industry
• 24:44
  and that's not universal, right?
• 24:45
  So I think that whether or not she's a PR stunt
• 24:49
  or a performance art or whatever,
• 24:51
  like there's real, I think danger to trying to legitimize it
• 24:54
  or talk about it as if it's a real possibility
• 24:56
  because like it really can create additional vulnerability
• 25:00
  for like an already extremely vulnerable group
• 25:03
  within the industry.
• 25:04
  - That is such a good point.
• 25:06
  Some of them are so realistic that,
• 25:10
  I mean, if I just looked at her right now
• 25:12
  and I didn't know in some of these pictures,
• 25:15
  I would think that she was a real person, 100%.
• 25:18
  And it just, it creates so many opportunities
• 25:20
  to make dangerous content and to make dangerous content
• 25:25
  that would otherwise be illegal or exploitative,
• 25:30
  but it's blurring that line, right?
• 25:32
  Because it's not a person,
• 25:34
  but it is still depicting like a young,
• 25:38
  - Order line underage girl here.
• 25:40
  - Like this is, have all been combined to create this girl.
• 25:43
  I mean, I saw an actress host and she said,
• 25:46
  "This thing freaks me out more than any other content
• 25:48
  "on AI I have seen 'cause it has my face."
• 25:50
  And I looked at her profile and she was right.
• 25:52
  She was 100% dead on.
• 25:53
  I mean, if you paid me to guess which actresses were like
• 25:58
  trained to make this code,
• 25:59
  like I would absolutely peg her as one of them.
• 26:02
  And so there are real people's faces
• 26:05
  who are making this face,
• 26:06
  who are making these performances that it's being trained on.
• 26:09
  And I mean, that's just another argument right there
• 26:12
  for why it's so silly to have AI.
• 26:15
  'Cause it's like, okay, so cast any one
• 26:16
  of the like whoever many dozens of these young actresses
• 26:19
  like you modeled her on.
• 26:21
  - Honestly, and there's Brian Cranston,
• 26:24
  you mentioned, who is fighting back.
• 26:27
  I also heard today that the MLK estate is fighting back
• 26:32
  because people were making MLK videos
• 26:35
  of him saying terrible things.
• 26:38
  - Oh, God.
• 26:39
  And I saw a couple floating around
• 26:42
  with a lot of like DC celebrities.
• 26:45
  And then not as serious as putting words in MLK's mouth,
• 26:47
  obviously, but people were making entire South Park episodes
• 26:51
  that looked just because that's not a human being.
• 26:54
  It's a cartoon.
• 26:55
  - Right.
• 26:56
  - But it looked exactly like a real-life South Park episode.
• 26:58
  - Well, and I know like Robin Williams's daughter
• 27:01
  like had to come out and make a statement
• 27:03
  and basically say like, please stop sending me AI videos
• 27:06
  of my deceased father.
• 27:08
  And like, why the hell would I want to see that?
• 27:11
  - So horrifying to me.
• 27:13
  Like it's so horrifying to me.
• 27:15
  And I know like the main argument I hear
• 27:18
  from people who choose to use AI to create art
• 27:20
  is that it makes like making art
• 27:23
  somehow more accessible to them.
• 27:26
  And I think that I don't think that,
• 27:29
  so I'm a huge advocate for accessibility.
• 27:32
  And I think that if you need more accessibility
• 27:34
  in an artistic space, then that should be
• 27:36
  the cause you're taking up.
• 27:38
  And I think that it's lazy to invoke
• 27:40
  like accessibility's name in order to justify using
• 27:44
  something that's causing so much damage
• 27:46
  like on a human level, on an environmental level,
• 27:49
  like financially, like it's really, really a problematic thing.
• 27:53
  And so it's like the accessibility
• 27:54
  in the art space you're in is the issue.
• 27:57
  Then your focus should be advocating
• 27:59
  for that accessibility, not using this AI
• 28:02
  to try to sidestep it and make honestly like
• 28:06
  half-baked things that are not, you know,
• 28:08
  the art that you would make
• 28:09
  where you in an accessible space to make it.
• 28:11
  - Mm-hmm.
• 28:12
  Well said.
• 28:15
  (laughs)
• 28:16
  Let's go ahead and take a quick break
• 28:19
  and then kind of talk about
• 28:20
  where we see the future going with AI
• 28:22
  and if there's ever any good uses for it
• 28:24
  and what we hope comes from the film industry.
• 28:26
  (dramatic music)
• 28:29
  - So AI is something that has taken over
• 28:36
  the business world now trying to step its
• 28:39
  measly paws into the creative world.
• 28:42
  I mean, I guess do we see like any use of AI
• 28:47
  or ethical use of AI within society and culture?
• 28:51
  - I think that I have such complex feelings about this.
• 28:57
  Like I can only see what my personal opinion on this
• 29:00
  is at this point, right?
• 29:01
  Like because it's AI on a broader scale,
• 29:04
  I think as it exists right now,
• 29:06
  there's no ethical way to use it
• 29:07
  because the amount of environmental damage
• 29:10
  that it's causing and especially like disproportionately
• 29:12
  the way it's infecting the environment
• 29:13
  in like black and brown communities is so unbelievable.
• 29:18
  Like on a scale of compared to everything else
• 29:22
  that causes environmental damage.
• 29:23
  Like the disparity is huge.
• 29:26
  And so I think that as it exists right now,
• 29:29
  there's not really an ethical way to use it
• 29:31
  and I know that lots of people do use it
• 29:33
  and get use from it.
• 29:34
  But I also, I repeatedly question like the use of things
• 29:39
  like chat GPT or OpenAI or like because it is a
• 29:44
  generative program, it is programmed to never say,
• 29:46
  I don't know, right?
• 29:47
  Like it'll just start making things up.
• 29:49
  And so I get to a point where I'm like,
• 29:50
  if you have to go back and fact check everything
• 29:53
  it told you anyway.
• 29:54
  - Yeah.
• 29:57
  - Where's the shortcut?
• 29:58
  Like what time did we save?
• 29:59
  So I think that like are there uses for it?
• 30:03
  Like are there ways that it could be used as a tool
• 30:05
  to shorten like the menial tasks
• 30:07
  that humans don't want to do for sure?
• 30:10
  But like not the way that it exists currently.
• 30:13
  Like it's just there's too much, for me at least
• 30:15
  like there's too much environmentally at stake
• 30:17
  and like at stake on a human level
• 30:20
  to justify using it for things.
• 30:22
  - I do think a lot of companies use it.
• 30:26
  My company uses chat GPT for certain tasks.
• 30:30
  And it's so obvious when you see it in other brands now
• 30:33
  because they just have those markers like an M-dash
• 30:37
  and every sentence.
• 30:39
  - M-dash lover.
• 30:40
  So my heart has been breaking.
• 30:42
  I don't know how many months because I have to keep
• 30:45
  rewriting my freaking emails to not include them.
• 30:47
  I'm like, they're the thing this was chat GPT.
• 30:49
  Like, yes, I hate that.
• 30:52
  There's like a particular cadence that it always writes in.
• 30:55
  Like it's not just a podcast, it's a revolution.
• 30:59
  - It's not just friendship, it's a sisterhood
• 31:02
  and then like little emojis.
• 31:04
  And it's so obvious when brands do it
• 31:06
  that when I see it now I like remove my like.
• 31:08
  I'm like this is lazy, this is so lazy.
• 31:12
  And I'll find myself scrolling sometimes
• 31:16
  and see a video of random things.
• 31:19
  Like I saw a video of a raccoon stealing candy
• 31:22
  that was supposedly caught on a ring camera
• 31:26
  from a trick or treat, like a trick or treat candy thing.
• 31:29
  - AI.
• 31:30
  - And like, why?
• 31:32
  - Why?
• 31:33
  - Why was that necessary?
• 31:34
  - We don't need to destroy the planet.
• 31:36
  I mean, why?
• 31:37
  - Literally, there's real raccoons out there, you guys.
• 31:41
  There are real actual raccoons.
• 31:43
  - That's the raccoon.
• 31:44
  - Go outside in the forest.
• 31:47
  - Don't touch, touch grounds.
• 31:50
  - Touch grounds.
• 31:51
  - Yeah.
• 31:51
  - Yeah, it's just, it's so like I would say like night.
• 31:55
  That's the other thing that annoys me
• 31:57
  about the way it exists in its current state.
• 31:58
  'Cause I would say like 90% of the things people tell me
• 32:00
  they use it for.
• 32:01
  I'm like, did your brain just simply stop functioning?
• 32:04
  Like, I don't like, I don't know what else to say.
• 32:06
  Like, I'm like, did you just simply lose the ability
• 32:09
  to like hold conversation, write an email,
• 32:12
  write something?
• 32:13
  - Right, it's just like my mind.
• 32:17
  - Yeah, I think my feelings on the situation
• 32:20
  are very similar to social media, right?
• 32:24
  Like I think if we allow like a select few of companies
• 32:28
  to manage how we move through the world,
• 32:32
  manage the environmental impacts,
• 32:34
  manage what that actual, those policies are to protect people.
• 32:39
  I do think that it is quite scary to give that power
• 32:42
  to people like a Zuckerberg, a Jeff Bezos,
• 32:46
  like of the world, like an Elon Musk.
• 32:48
  Like if you, if you give that power to a select few
• 32:51
  and ones whose only morals are shareholder value
• 32:55
  and making more money, we are absolutely screwed.
• 32:59
  Even more so than we, than we already are.
• 33:02
  However, I think from an engineering
• 33:04
  and like a technical perspective,
• 33:06
  there is a level of machine learning
• 33:09
  that is incredibly valuable.
• 33:11
  I don't know if it is within creative, right?
• 33:16
  I think that AI being unchecked to steal work
• 33:20
  is incredibly problematic,
• 33:23
  but I think the ability for these programs
• 33:26
  to think dynamically in a way that was previously unlocked
• 33:30
  is a, like it is a feat of the world,
• 33:35
  but in order to do it correctly,
• 33:37
  like we need these safeguards ultimately within it.
• 33:41
  I think that it is quite scary
• 33:43
  if we move forward so quickly without any safeguards.
• 33:48
  And I think we see the impact of that within social media.
• 33:53
  And what that has done to the youth.
• 33:55
  - That is such a good point, Liv, too,
• 33:56
  about like the power being in just the hands of the few.
• 34:00
  And all of these men that you mentioned
• 34:03
  are absolutely like beholden to Donald Trump, too.
• 34:08
  So, and so is TikTok now, right?
• 34:14
  TikTok is owned by Oracle.
• 34:17
  Yeah, and we see the president abusing AI
• 34:22
  on his the actual White House official platforms.
• 34:27
  He posted a video of him flying like a jet plane
• 34:31
  and dumping shit all over the no Kings Day protesters.
• 34:35
  And one of the people in the video was an actual human,
• 34:38
  like an actual guy.
• 34:40
  His face was used in this video of him getting shit on
• 34:44
  by the president of the United States.
• 34:46
  Like at what point and people are like,
• 34:49
  this is just funny, he's just trolling.
• 34:51
  Like at what point do we stop and say like,
• 34:53
  no, we deserve like to not have this kind of world?
• 34:57
  I don't know.
• 34:58
  - My husband today told me like Kenny Loggins
• 35:00
  is doing the president because he used his song
• 35:04
  and I'm just like, what?
• 35:06
  Like I really am just so.
• 35:10
  I have so many thoughts about the larger world
• 35:12
  that we do not have time for on the podcast,
• 35:13
  but like in general, I'm just like what world am I living in?
• 35:18
  Where you're telling me like Kenny Loggins
• 35:20
  is having to sue the president of the United States
• 35:24
  for like unwafully using his work in an AI video
• 35:28
  where like he's literally shitting on our first amendment,
• 35:32
  right?
• 35:33
  Like I just don't, it's mind-bought.
• 35:36
  Like literally what is going on?
• 35:38
  Like at all times it's just kind of my general vibe.
• 35:40
  - Same, same.
• 35:41
  - Yeah.
• 35:42
  - And it's quite scary.
• 35:43
  Like you look at these deep fakes that we see
• 35:47
  where you can make anyone say anything.
• 35:49
  - Yeah.
• 35:50
  - In a quite believable way.
• 35:51
  Like I think that. - It's very believable.
• 35:53
  - Like you look at, I mean a lot of AI
• 35:57
  in order to do things convincingly needs quite a bit
• 36:00
  of context and provided things and within that.
• 36:04
  I mean you look at like celebrities.
• 36:06
  There is so much like recorded media of these people
• 36:09
  where you looked at like the deep fakes of Taylor Swift.
• 36:13
  And you know I am quite surprised that she didn't really
• 36:16
  lead that charge whenever a lot of this first started
• 36:20
  on the deep fakes sites because you know
• 36:23
  there were disgusting things happening.
• 36:25
  - Other stupid pornography.
• 36:26
  - Of a lot of female celebrities too.
• 36:28
  - She's a male celebrity too.
• 36:30
  - But yeah.
• 36:30
  - I know that she did have, there was some case that she had.
• 36:34
  And I am, it's been so long now that I don't remember
• 36:36
  the specifics but I know that she did have something
• 36:39
  where she specifically helped advocate for a law
• 36:42
  around like deep fakes as they pertained to pornography
• 36:45
  because there was so much of her specifically going around.
• 36:48
  But it's been too long now I don't like have the specifics
• 36:51
  on that but I know she wasn't involved in it
• 36:53
  like to some extent but it's also one of those things
• 36:55
  where it's like there's only so much
• 36:58
  anyone person can do and I'm not saying like that
• 37:00
  about like Taylor Swift.
• 37:01
  I just in general like it's like there's so many
• 37:04
  moving pieces that are a problem right now
• 37:06
  that it's hard to kind of like pick a lane to go after.
• 37:10
  You know.
• 37:11
  - 100%
• 37:12
  - And it is so, it is believable especially to people
• 37:17
  who I don't wanna say the untrained eye
• 37:20
  but especially older folks right?
• 37:22
  If you would show any of these videos in Sora
• 37:25
  to an older person or person who didn't grow up
• 37:27
  on social media or isn't constantly attached to their phones
• 37:31
  they would absolutely think that's real.
• 37:33
  They would absolutely think that what they're seeing
• 37:35
  if you show you know you can make something
• 37:37
  a video of your political opponent doing something
• 37:40
  disgusting or saying something disgusting
• 37:43
  and then show it they will absolutely 100% believe it.
• 37:46
  Right.
• 37:47
  - Well and it scares me because we already see
• 37:48
  so much algorithmic manipulation of false thoughts
• 37:53
  and opinions on things because of just the way
• 37:56
  that algorithms feed them you know,
• 37:58
  certain news articles or whatever about these things
• 38:01
  that it's the idea that there could now be deep fakes AI
• 38:04
  like infinitely more so like proof for lack of a better word
• 38:08
  for them to look at and base opinions off of
• 38:11
  is really really scary.
• 38:13
  - 100% - 100%
• 38:15
  - Well I saw this TikTok I cannot remember the creator
• 38:18
  off the top of my head but it was talking about
• 38:20
  like our addiction to phones and the introduction of AI
• 38:24
  and they basically asked the question of does this
• 38:28
  AI content creation get us off our phones
• 38:32
  because we truly cannot believe anything that we see.
• 38:35
  Nothing is real does that remove us from even wanting
• 38:39
  to be on the apps and we just go like completely back
• 38:43
  to analog and remove that addiction because it's like
• 38:46
  well nothing is real I want to be within that.
• 38:49
  - That's fascinating I feel like I have seen myself
• 38:53
  kind of back off a little bit because I will fully admit
• 38:56
  that I doom scroll like any good millennial right?
• 39:00
  But because I've seen even in the last week
• 39:04
  just an insane into a plexer uptick of Sora AI videos
• 39:09
  specifically and like I have family members sending them
• 39:13
  to me and they asked me, can we have your likeness
• 39:16
  and your face on and of your voice sample to put you in?
• 39:19
  I was like, hell no.
• 39:22
  - Absolutely - Absolutely F and not.
• 39:24
  But it's gotten me to like all these doom scrolling
• 39:28
  and I'm like fake fake fake and I'm like screw this.
• 39:32
  I just got interest back because they made a setting now
• 39:35
  where you can turn off all AI content on Pinterest
• 39:38
  and I used to be on there constantly.
• 39:39
  I mean like I make the joke a lot that like the internet
• 39:42
  raised me but like Pinterest especially like I love it.
• 39:45
  - I love it.
• 39:46
  - It's like, yeah that was just so underrated.
• 39:48
  - I was like hoping to live on my own for the first time
• 39:50
  and I was like what is any of this?
• 39:52
  You know what I mean?
• 39:53
  It was such a good resource for me
• 39:55
  and it's been so unusable for the last like
• 39:57
  over many months because of the AI stuff
• 39:59
  but also I thought what was interesting was
• 40:01
  just the post about the fact that Pinterest had made this
• 40:05
  setting where you could turn off the AI settings on Pinterest
• 40:09
  had just like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds
• 40:11
  and thousands of people saying like I wish this was an option
• 40:14
  everywhere.
• 40:15
  And so I'm wondering how far away we are
• 40:18
  from companies starting to get the hint
• 40:20
  that it's not profitable to keep running at AI
• 40:23
  from a content creation standpoint
• 40:25
  because nobody wants that.
• 40:27
  Like nobody wants that.
• 40:28
  - We don't want to see it.
• 40:29
  I think that it would be, can you imagine,
• 40:33
  imagine if you could do that on Instagram or TikTok
• 40:36
  and it would just cut down on the brain rot so much.
• 40:41
  - Well it is, yeah I mean we've talked,
• 40:44
  I feel like we've talked about dead internet theory
• 40:46
  but before AI was really even introduced
• 40:49
  30% of the internet is already bots.
• 40:52
  So then you add in not just commenters
• 40:56
  who are feeding into that.
• 40:58
  Now you have bots creating content and moving into that.
• 41:01
  Like those numbers will quite dramatically grow up
• 41:06
  or like grow and then what does that even look like?
• 41:09
  Am I interacting with a computer?
• 41:10
  And it is scary how many of people are dating
• 41:15
  and AI girlfriends and things like that.
• 41:18
  Like they always say like if you want an indicator
• 41:23
  of the economy, the world technology,
• 41:25
  like look at porn.
• 41:27
  And yeah it is quite insane.
• 41:29
  Like all the ads, anything you see within the porn industry
• 41:34
  is AI and you know it is scary,
• 41:38
  like the promotional videos, like I'll do anything you want.
• 41:41
  You can make me say anything.
• 41:43
  - How do you see so many of these Olivia?
• 41:46
  - This is a travel.
• 41:47
  - A travel.
• 41:49
  - You know what I'm talking about.
• 41:50
  - You do look at those things
• 41:52
  and it's quite interesting.
• 41:54
  But yeah I mean I think that the biggest way
• 41:58
  that we find ourselves out of this
• 42:00
  are unfortunately the people who have the time
• 42:04
  and have the money to mitigate this.
• 42:07
  There's something we said about our court system right now
• 42:10
  but I do think that for us to move forward
• 42:13
  and creep AI out of Hollywood and creative tasks
• 42:17
  it's gonna take more people like a whoopie
• 42:21
  and Natasha Lyon, like yeah.
• 42:23
  Truly speaking up and using that power to boycott.
• 42:27
  Like if an agent takes on AI we will not work with you.
• 42:31
  Like the studio we will not work with you.
• 42:34
  You know we've seen the power of that
• 42:36
  within the Me Too movement within the Sank Actress Strikes.
• 42:38
  So like truly as with most things
• 42:41
  like the power is within the people
• 42:44
  and you know always remember that
• 42:47
  always you know use your voice to say
• 42:49
  like I don't wanna see this.
• 42:51
  - Yeah.
• 42:52
  - Ultimately use your buying power.
• 42:53
  Our buying power a lot of the time now
• 42:55
  is truly attention right?
• 42:57
  So if you ignore those videos,
• 42:59
  if you don't watch those movies
• 43:01
  you will not see them right?
• 43:04
  - I have a question to that extent.
• 43:06
  Do you guys think that because of the state of the country
• 43:11
  and court systems and the aforementioned leaders right now
• 43:16
  do you think that this could potentially get better
• 43:20
  or we could see more safeguards
• 43:22
  once this presidency is over?
• 43:24
  - I think it's possible.
• 43:25
  I think that something that I've been deeply comforted by
• 43:28
  even in the first days that the articles about this
• 43:32
  Tilly situation came up were the amount of industry
• 43:36
  professionals that I know on a personal level
• 43:38
  and really respect that came out and said I mean like
• 43:40
  casting directors, actors, agents, managers, acting coaches
• 43:44
  like everybody across the board came out
• 43:46
  and was essentially like under no circumstances right?
• 43:49
  But I also think that a lot of creatives
• 43:52
  whose work I really respect have come out and said
• 43:55
  like I feel like AI is inevitable
• 43:57
  and we have to get on board and we have to learn to work with it.
• 44:00
  And I think that the issue with again legitimizing it
• 44:04
  through talking about it like it's already here
• 44:06
  and it's already inevitable is that then people feel like that,
• 44:09
  right?
• 44:10
  They feel like they feel like they have to get on board
• 44:11
  when that's just-- - They can't fight back.
• 44:12
  - Yeah. - Yeah, it's not the case.
• 44:14
  You can fight back.
• 44:14
  You can like you can say but with your dollar
• 44:16
  and I do think that the more that people do that,
• 44:20
  the stronger the incentive is going to be
• 44:24
  from a bottom line perspective for these companies
• 44:27
  to get it together and hopefully that would then lead to
• 44:32
  a situation that would facilitate like changes
• 44:34
  on a legal level and I think that
• 44:37
  the most important thing people can do is to not accept it
• 44:42
  as an inevitability and I think that that is going to make
• 44:45
  a difference period.
• 44:47
  - Amen. - A great-- - Absolutely.
• 44:49
  - Hard to grade.
• 44:50
  - We're real.
• 44:52
  - We're real. - We're real.
• 44:54
  - For now, we're real.
• 44:56
  - Don't replace me, robot overlords.
• 45:01
  - Yes, exactly. - No worries.
• 45:02
  - No worries for me, you know.
• 45:04
  - Yeah, no robot can copy this mental illness.
• 45:07
  - Like, this is homegrown.
• 45:09
  - Yeah. - This is my own right here.
• 45:12
  - He's probably be called tail legs.
• 45:14
  - I've been brewing this for 36 years.
• 45:17
  (laughing)
• 45:19
  - I love it.
• 45:20
  Well, Alaina, this has been so awesome.
• 45:22
  And thank you so much for coming on the
• 45:25
  Pop Culture Junkie podcast and tell us where
• 45:28
  our listeners can find you, your films,
• 45:31
  anything you want to share.
• 45:32
  - Thank you guys so much for having me.
• 45:34
  This has been a lot of fun.
• 45:35
  It's nice to have a space to talk about all of this.
• 45:38
  The easiest place to find me is definitely on Instagram.
• 45:41
  It's just @AlainaLightfoot
• 45:43
  That's where I post about everything I have going on
• 45:46
  from a project perspective, anything that I have available
• 45:48
  that folks from watch is gonna be there.
• 45:50
  So that's definitely the easiest way to find me.
• 45:53
  - You can find me, Shauna Trinidad,
• 45:55
  @ShaunaTrinidad on Instagram and threads,
• 45:58
  S-H-A-U-N-A-T-R-I-N-I-D-A-D.
• 46:02
  - You can find me, Olivia, on Instagram @livimariez
• 46:07
  L-I-V-I-M-A-R-I-E-Z.
• 46:11
  And of course you can find the Pop Culture Junkie Podcast
• 46:14
  on our website, popculturejunkie.com.
• 46:17
  From there you can find our podcast on all platforms,
• 46:19
  as well as our social media links, blog posts, and more.
• 46:23
  Contact us, join the Pop Culture Junkie Support Group
• 46:28
  on Facebook and as always, follow, subscribe,
• 46:32
  rate, and review the show.
• 46:33
  You can do all that from the website
• 46:35
  and join the Patreon because you know,
• 46:38
  that helps us bring you more of this fun stuff
• 46:41
  that we've been doing here.
• 46:43
  And you can find us at patreon.com/popculturejunkiepodcast.
• 46:48
  And again, thank you so much, Alaina.
• 46:49
  We would love to have you back soon
• 46:51
  for another hopefully more fun topic.
• 46:53
  - As you say, let's talk about something more fun next time.
• 46:56
  - Yeah, that's for sure.
• 46:57
  - Not to jimmy as of our democracy and the economy.
• 47:04
  - I think it always comes back to that though.
• 47:06
  - Yeah, forget.
• 47:07
  - We're deep-twerk from the horrors, it's my guess.
• 47:09
  - Yes, yes.
• 47:10
  - Yes, we're escaping the horrors, I love it.
• 47:13
  And come back next week for another hit of Pop Culture.
• 47:16
  (upbeat music)
• 47:19
  - The Pop Culture Junkie Podcast is produced by
• 47:23
  Jeff Markin and Cheryl Lightfoot
• 47:25
  for the Pop Culture Entertainment Network.
• 47:27
  ♪ Entertain me, entertain me right now ♪
• 47:31
  ♪ I need it bad ♪
• 47:33
  ♪ I need it bad ♪
• 47:36
  ♪ I need it bad ♪
• 47:38
  ♪ I need it bad ♪
• 47:40
  [Music]