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The Race to Replace Graham Platner · Pod Save America

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  Speaker 7: Welcome to Positive America. I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 1:35
  Speaker 8: And I'm Alex Wagner.
• 1:36
  Speaker 7: John is off this week. On today's show, Graham Plattner
• 1:39
  Speaker 7: suspends his campaign against Susan Collins, and now there's a
• 1:42
  Speaker 7: very crowded, very chaotic race to succeed him. The war
• 1:45
  Speaker 7: in Iran appears to be starting back up again. Even
• 1:47
  Speaker 7: though Donald Trump is confused about the name of the
• 1:49
  Speaker 7: country he's attacking, that's a real thing. Then former North
• 1:52
  Speaker 7: Carolina Governor Roy Cooper talks to me about the campaign
• 1:55
  Speaker 7: for Senate. Alex, thanks for being here today and replacing John.
• 1:59
  Speaker 8: It's a pleasure.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: Although, I mean, we all miss John whenever he's away.
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: Crazy shit happens, Dan.
• 2:06
  Speaker 7: It's true. He spends his vacations in the middle of
• 2:10
  Speaker 7: online fiascos. It's either here or there.
• 2:12
  Speaker 5: Okay.
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  Speaker 7: Let's start with the Platner news. Two long days after
• 2:16
  Speaker 7: Politico broke the story that Platner had allegedly raped a
• 2:19
  Speaker 7: former girlfriend, Platner posted an 11-minute video on Wednesday evening
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  Speaker 7: saying he would file the formal paperwork to withdraw his
• 2:25
  Speaker 7: name from the ballot, but also sharing a lot of
• 2:27
  Speaker 7: other thoughts too. Let's take a listen.
• 2:30
  Speaker 9: I think as many of you know, over the past
• 2:32
  Speaker 9: couple of days, I have faced some very serious allegations
• 2:36
  Speaker 9: and I just want to make it clear, this is
• 2:38
  Speaker 9: all false. I think it's really important to understand why
• 2:42
  Speaker 9: this is happening in the timeline. Why this is happening
• 2:47
  Speaker 9: right now. I only have until July 13th until I
• 2:51
  Speaker 9: am officially the nominee. This was the last week to
• 2:55
  Speaker 9: try to get me off of the ballot. And that's
• 3:00
  Speaker 9: why this is occurring. It's not the false allegations, though,
• 3:06
  Speaker 9: that have brought us to where we are. It's the
• 3:09
  Speaker 9: fact that they are being used by the political establishment
• 3:14
  Speaker 9: to put structural pressure on us. What comes next needs
• 3:22
  Speaker 9: to come from the people. I'm not trying to dictate
• 3:25
  Speaker 9: to anyone who it should be or how we get there,
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  Speaker 9: but I will say this. It needs to be open, transparent,
• 3:33
  Speaker 9: and democratic.
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  Speaker 7: As of this recording on Thursday afternoon, Plattner has not
• 3:37
  Speaker 7: actually filed the paperwork to have his name removed. The
• 3:40
  Speaker 7: deadline is 5 p.m. Eastern time on Monday, but there
• 3:43
  Speaker 7: is reporting that he will wait until then to do it. Alex,
• 3:46
  Speaker 7: what are your thoughts on his decision to drop out
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  Speaker 7: and the message in that video?
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  Speaker 8: Asshole, asshole, asshole. Those are my thoughts.
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  Speaker 4: First of all, nobody needed to hear Graham Plattner uncensored
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  Speaker 4: for 12 minutes. And the conceit in that video is
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  Speaker 4: preposterous that I guess I guess we're meant to believe
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  Speaker 4: that a rape victim is a crisis actor and that
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  Speaker 4: crisis acting as being used by the Democratic establishment to
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  Speaker 4: get Graham Plattner out of the race, never minding that
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  Speaker 4: Plattner's exit from the race greatly complicates the race and
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  Speaker 4: potentially throws it further into jeopardy. And there's no mention,
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  Speaker 4: we didn't, we thankfully did not play the whole video,
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  Speaker 4: but he never mentions any of the women who came
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: forward on the record talking about violence and aggression, if
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  Speaker 4: not outright assault and rape. He never mentions and pushes
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: back on any of those things. He just says this
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  Speaker 4: is all part of a deep state plot. I mean,
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  Speaker 4: it's totally outrageous, but maybe the most egregious part of
• 4:44
  Speaker 4: it I think, is the fact that he suggests the
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: system is hopelessly flawed and corrupted and that machine politics
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: would not abide an insurgent grassroots campaign. The mission of
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: the establishment right now is to quash real reform and
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: real accountability, which is you can have jaded views about
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: the establishment. And I'm sure there's every reason for Graham
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: Plattner to have some of those and for some of
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: his supporters to. But right now, if the goal really
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: is to oust Susan Collins, Graham Plattner needs to make
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: people believe he does not need to further disillusion his supporters.
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  Speaker 4: He does not need to spin paranoid conspiracy theories. He
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: does not need anybody in Democratic politics in Maine to
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: feel like this system is entirely rigged against them. He
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: needs people to believe that there can be a good outcome.
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: He needs to put whatever momentum he has left into
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: the next candidate, and he's done exactly the opposite. I mean,
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  Speaker 4: I just think it's completely unconscionable that this is the
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  Speaker 4: way this guy is exiting the race.
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  Speaker 7: My take on this is the subject line of your
• 5:52
  Speaker 7: excellent newsletter, subject newsletter, How the Hell, which is Fuck
• 5:55
  Speaker 7: Graham Plattner. I agree with everything you said. What is
• 6:00
  Speaker 7: so infuriating about this is if he truly cared about
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  Speaker 7: getting people healthcare, about stopping a genocide, about making the
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  Speaker 7: economic and political system more fair in this country, none
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  Speaker 7: of those things can happen if we do not beat
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  Speaker 7: Susan Collins.
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  Speaker 3: Exactly.
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  Speaker 7: And by going down this path of conspiracy theories, as
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  Speaker 7: you say, to dissolution supporters, he is making that less likely.
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  Speaker 7: He's making it harder to accomplish things he did. This
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  Speaker 7: video is Trumpian- in its nature. It is conspiracy theories.
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  Speaker 7: It's denial. It's making it entirely about himself. You know,
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  Speaker 7: throughout this video, he talks about how the movement they
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  Speaker 7: built and how whatever the process is that the main
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  Speaker 7: Democratic Party comes up with, they must be true to
• 6:45
  Speaker 7: that movement. Now, it is impressive for a first-time political
• 6:50
  Speaker 7: candidate to beat the two-term governor of the state and
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  Speaker 7: beat the DSCC and Chuck Schumer and all that. That
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  Speaker 7: is an impressive thing. But like, just... Don't crawl so
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  Speaker 7: far up your own ass. You got 150,000 votes in Maine, right?
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  Speaker 7: This is not the Robert Kennedy 1968 campaign. This is
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  Speaker 7: not the Obama 2008 campaign. It is the smart thing
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  Speaker 7: for the party to do to have a process that
• 7:15
  Speaker 7: brings in the people who support a grand planter because
• 7:18
  Speaker 7: we do obviously need them to win. But this whole
• 7:21
  Speaker 7: thing that this was some magical messianic thing that he
• 7:24
  Speaker 7: put together, he himself and only he put together and
• 7:28
  Speaker 7: it must pay respect to what he did. It's just
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  Speaker 7: fucking ridiculous. It's counterproductive. Just go away. It's the best
• 7:36
  Speaker 7: thing he can do for the things he claims he
• 7:37
  Speaker 7: cares about.
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  Speaker 4: Of course he's waiting till Monday. It's like, first of all,
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  Speaker 4: time is of the essence. It's like paraphrasing the bear,
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  Speaker 4: every second counts. And this asshole is waiting till Monday
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  Speaker 4: just cause, give me a fucking break.
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  Speaker 7: Secondly- To what end?
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  Speaker 8: To what, why? File the paperwork, be done.
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  Speaker 4: We need to move. Everybody needs to move on. I
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: say this in my newsletter and I genuinely believe it. Like,
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: let Dan, we have a long history here, but let
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  Speaker 4: this be like the last conversation we have to have
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  Speaker 4: about Graham Plattner because the focus needs to be on
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  Speaker 4: Susan Collins.
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  Speaker 7: And we're going to get to Susan Collins after we
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  Speaker 7: finish their next 15 minutes talking about Graham Plattner.
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  Speaker 4: No, I think, because I will say, and I've said
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  Speaker 4: this before and I'm sure you agree with me on this,
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  Speaker 4: I'm sure. There needs to be at some point a real.
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  Speaker 8: I don't want to use.
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  Speaker 4: Proctology as the word, but like a real examination, a
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  Speaker 4: soul searching about.
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  Speaker 8: The lessons learned here.
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  Speaker 7: We're going to do that today on this podcast in
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  Speaker 7: just a moment.
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  Speaker 8: Bless you. I'm getting ahead of myself.
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  Speaker 7: Before we get to that, because I do want to
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  Speaker 7: have a conversation about how we got to this moment
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  Speaker 7: and I want to talk a little bit about where
• 8:52
  Speaker 7: you were right and I was wrong and why that was,
• 8:55
  Speaker 7: which we will get to, I promise. But I want
• 8:57
  Speaker 7: to talk a little bit first about what happens next.
• 9:00
  Speaker 7: I previewed some of this on Polar Coaster, my show
• 9:01
  Speaker 7: for Friends of the Pod subscribers. If you aren't a
• 9:04
  Speaker 7: subscriber yet, I really don't know what you're doing with
• 9:05
  Speaker 7: your life. And maybe you should visit cricket.com slash friends
• 9:08
  Speaker 7: to change that. But anywho.
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  Speaker 8: I'm a believer.
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  Speaker 7: Provided that Plattner does formally drop out. The main Democratic
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  Speaker 7: Party has until July 27th to replace him. They've said
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  Speaker 7: they'll hold a convention to pick a new nominee and
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  Speaker 7: won't We'll make all the details public soon, although there's
• 9:24
  Speaker 7: been a lot of reporting on what it is, and
• 9:26
  Speaker 7: they claim that transparency will be of the utmost importance.
• 9:29
  Speaker 7: What do you make of the convention idea? Is there
• 9:31
  Speaker 7: a better one? Is there a way not to make
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  Speaker 7: this process so messy?
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  Speaker 4: Listen, I'm the last one to have a better idea,
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: but I would like to see– I mean, there's been
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: talk about town halls and debates. I mean, I think
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  Speaker 4: there has to be some– before these delegates make the call,
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  Speaker 4: if it is in fact the leadership of the state
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  Speaker 4: party that is going to decide who the nominee is,
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  Speaker 4: one One would hope there would be some concession to both,
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  Speaker 4: those delegates and the public in the notion of choice
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: by having a full or full-ish airing of their views.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: And that's obviously going to have to be fairly abbreviated,
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: but there needs to be some deference to helping educate
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: the public in and the delegates about who these people are.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: I've done a glancing search on the internet, but that's
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: not sufficient. And they haven't had to talk about their
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: positions in a fulsome way. So I think that, you know,
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: they're neat. I would love to see some kind of
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: public format where they're, whether it's debate, town hall, whatever,
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: that's moderated and that's, you know, official feeling beyond just
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: interviews with the press and podcast appearances.
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 10:41
  Speaker 7: And so the way that we think this is going
• 10:44
  Speaker 7: to happen is there would be this convention, and I
• 10:46
  Speaker 7: think would sort of model what would be like a
• 10:48
  Speaker 7: brokered convention at a national party convention in an election year.
• 10:52
  Speaker 7: And there would be, I think it supports a 500 delegates.
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  Speaker 7: The 16, I believe, counties in Maine, county parties would
• 10:58
  Speaker 7: elect delegates.
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  Speaker 8: I think it's over 600 delegates.
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  Speaker 7: 600 delegates from the 16 counties. So this is going
• 11:05
  Speaker 7: to be party insiders under all circumstances. And there's just
• 11:10
  Speaker 7: no way for actual, you can't hold an election in
• 11:12
  Speaker 7: this time period. So it's going to be this. This
• 11:14
  Speaker 7: is probably, this is going to be messy for sure.
• 11:17
  Speaker 7: There's going to be, you know, candidates are going to
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  Speaker 7: try to And we'll talk about who the can'ts are
• 11:21
  Speaker 7: in a second. But they're going to try to influence
• 11:22
  Speaker 7: who the delegates are in all these places. They're going
• 11:25
  Speaker 7: to put up slates. It's going to be messy. Now,
• 11:27
  Speaker 7: this is probably the best process if you want to
• 11:31
  Speaker 7: involve as many people as possible and have the most transparency.
• 11:34
  Speaker 7: Because the other alternative is the state party committee just votes.
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  Speaker 7: And we're in a weird, bizarro version of 2024 where
• 11:42
  Speaker 7: we're losing a nominee very close to an election, about
• 11:46
  Speaker 7: the same number of days, actually. And- Instead of what
• 11:50
  Speaker 7: happened in 2024 where just one candidate automatically becomes a nominee,
• 11:54
  Speaker 7: we're going to have a process of some kind and
• 11:57
  Speaker 7: these people are going to compete and maybe one of
• 11:59
  Speaker 7: them will come and stand out and hopefully at the
• 12:01
  Speaker 7: end of this process, we're going to come together. So
• 12:02
  Speaker 7: there are no good answers here, I guess is my point.
• 12:04
  Speaker 8: But you know what?
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  Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to the mess. I think everybody is
• 12:08
  Speaker 4: hungry for some sense that there's a real choice and
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: there are real races and this is not a foregone conclusion.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: conclusion on the part of party elders and it's not
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: a fait accompli. And Maine is pretty, like from my podcast,
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: Runaway Country, we interviewed one of the people, Dan Kleban, who's,
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: I know we're going to talk about this, one of
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: the potential replacements for Plattner. And there is so much
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: frustration at the idea that Washington and Chuck Schumer and
• 12:37
  Speaker 4: outsiders and elders know better and have involved themselves in
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: this race. There's real desire to have some openness in
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: all of this come what may. Yeah.
• 12:47
  Speaker 7: So, um, as for who might run potential candidates started
• 12:50
  Speaker 7: testing the waters even before platinum city was leaving the race.
• 12:53
  Speaker 7: Here's a small sample of how they're pitching themselves.
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: So I'm the only candidate that's demonstrated that I can
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: win statewide.
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: With conservative Republicans and urban young people that are much
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: more liberal. Maine deserves a fighter in this seat, and
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: I will be that fighter. I will fight for Medicare
• 13:09
  Speaker 6: for all, because in the wealthiest country on earth, nobody
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: should ever go bankrupt over a medical bill.
• 13:15
  Speaker 7: I own a small business here in Maine. I created,
• 13:19
  Speaker 7: built it from the ground up out of my garage,
• 13:21
  Speaker 7: employ over 100 Mainers, pay a living wage. provide 100%
• 13:24
  Speaker 7: of their health insurance coverage.
• 13:26
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm an outsider.
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: I'm not an elected, I'm not a career politician. I've
• 13:29
  Speaker 7: never held elected office. That was former Maine Senate President
• 13:33
  Speaker 7: Troy Jackson, the state's former top health official Nirav Shah,
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: and brewery owner Dan Kleban on your podcast, Alex, Runaway Country.
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: Indeed.
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: They've all said they will run. So have Secretary of
• 13:44
  Speaker 7: State Shanna Bellows, former congressional candidate and political operative Jordan Wood,
• 13:49
  Speaker 7: former Platner staffer and congressional candidate Paige Loud, Former Senate
• 13:53
  Speaker 7: candidate David Costello, state rep Valley Geiger is considering running too,
• 13:58
  Speaker 7: although she hasn't officially said so. It's a lot of people.
• 14:01
  Speaker 7: Do you find anyone compelling in this crowd? What do
• 14:04
  Speaker 7: you make of them?
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, listen, I talked to Dan Kleban, who's the
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: bar owner, the brewery owner. Nothing goes together like oysters
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: and beer. And he was going to run last. He
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: has an interesting backstory insofar as he was going to
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: run in last July and was told not to by
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: the DSCC, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, which is, of course,
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: under the aegis of the purview of Chuck Schumer, and
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: is an example of just how fucked this process has
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: been since its inception, right? And later dropped out of
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: the race and endorsed, he entered the race, but Plattner
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: had sort of won the hearts and minds of a
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: lot of Mainers at that point. He subsequently endorsed the governor,
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: Janet Mills, and then dropped out of the race. He's
• 14:47
  Speaker 4: compelling as kind of a sort of surrogate for the
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: everyman working class Mainer that Plattner represented, even if some
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: of his biography was a bit hazy around the edges
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: as far as his working class bona fides. Troy Jackson
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: sounds like he's the person that most, you know, he's
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: gotten an endorsement from Ro Khanna, who was a key
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: endorsement for Grant Plattner, at least from a national Democrat. He,
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: I believe, is a fifth generation logger from Allagash, which
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: is like, Bless Maine and all their outdoorsiness, brewers and
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: oystermen and loggers. He's the former president of the Maine Senate.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: He has some experience. He's, you know, I think he
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: has the progressive bona fides that people are looking for.
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: I got to stop saying the word bona fides. Nirav
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: Shah is a really interesting one. He was acting, I think,
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: director of the CDC for a minute as well. Yes.
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: Which makes me a little worried given that the CDC
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: has become very politicized. And- you know, former CDC director
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: and someone who is going to be asked about COVID.
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: It's just like, I am not a COVID, a vaccine
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: denier or a COVID skeptic, but it's extra baggage in
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: these insane and tumultuous times.
• 15:59
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 16:00
  Speaker 8: What do you think?
• 16:01
  Speaker 7: I am all tapped out on having opinions on main
• 16:04
  Speaker 7: Senate candidates. The truth is, I don't know any of
• 16:07
  Speaker 7: these people well enough to know who would be a
• 16:08
  Speaker 7: good candidate. Sad thing is we're not really going to
• 16:11
  Speaker 7: know when it comes time to pick the person. This
• 16:13
  Speaker 7: is a very abbreviated I hope there is someone in
• 16:19
  Speaker 7: Democratic politics who is investing more than the $ 6, 000 that
• 16:22
  Speaker 7: the Yahoos who recruited Graham Plattner used to vet him
• 16:26
  Speaker 7: and to do like full vets on all of these
• 16:29
  Speaker 7: people so that everyone knows everything you possibly can know.
• 16:33
  Speaker 7: Because whoever this person is commander, massive scrutiny. Because if
• 16:37
  Speaker 7: like one of the tests will be– like normally a
• 16:40
  Speaker 7: main Senate candidate does something, not obviously– what Graham Platner
• 16:46
  Speaker 7: has been accused of here, but, you know, had some
• 16:48
  Speaker 7: bad online, you know, in a different world, a different race,
• 16:50
  Speaker 7: some bad online posts or something else. It'd be like
• 16:53
  Speaker 7: a little speed bump in this race with this level
• 16:55
  Speaker 7: of scrutiny after what happened with Platner will be giant news.
• 16:59
  Speaker 7: You've got to make sure whoever we pick can withstand
• 17:01
  Speaker 7: that scrutiny. That's, I guess that's sort of the main thing.
• 17:04
  Speaker 9: Yeah.
• 17:04
  Speaker 7: Two weeks.
• 17:05
  Speaker 8: No big deal.
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: Great time to do like vetting town halls convention.
• 17:08
  Speaker 7: No problem.
• 17:09
  Speaker 8: But thank God Graham Platner is waiting until Monday to
• 17:11
  Speaker 8: drop out.
• 17:12
  Speaker 7: Yeah, because we definitely couldn't use the next 72 hours
• 17:15
  Speaker 7: or so. It's fitting you're here for this episode because
• 17:18
  Speaker 7: as many of our listeners know, every time there's been
• 17:20
  Speaker 7: big Grand Platinum news or Maine news, it's just been
• 17:23
  Speaker 7: a coincidence you and I have been on mic together,
• 17:26
  Speaker 7: either on Pod Save America, on your podcast, on YouTube.
• 17:31
  Speaker 8: At one point, Dan, we talked about doing just a
• 17:34
  Speaker 8: Maine Senate podcast.
• 17:36
  Speaker 7: Pod Save Maine. Pod Save the Maine people. We will
• 17:38
  Speaker 7: not be doing that now. Yes.
• 17:39
  Speaker 8: Pod Save the Maine.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Why?
• 17:40
  Speaker 8: If there's still a Senate race going on.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 17:42
  Speaker 8: I'm just kidding. We don't need to focus only on Maine.
• 17:44
  Speaker 7: But here's the important thing.
• 17:45
  Speaker 8: That's how in the foxhole we've been.
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 17:47
  Speaker 7: We've talked about Maine more than anything else over the
• 17:50
  Speaker 7: last year here.
• 17:59
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• 20:32
  Speaker 7: And it needs to be said, you've been a Platner
• 20:34
  Speaker 7: skeptic from the beginning, the very beginning, before anyone, before
• 20:37
  Speaker 7: the Reddit posts came out, Before the tattoo, before the
• 20:40
  Speaker 7: more recent stuff, you were a platinum skeptic. And I
• 20:43
  Speaker 7: will say here that you were right and I was wrong.
• 20:49
  Speaker 8: I don't want to be right, man. I did not.
• 20:51
  Speaker 8: This is not about me being right and you being wrong.
• 20:54
  Speaker 8: Was I even right? I don't even know what that means.
• 20:56
  Speaker 8: I just.
• 20:58
  Speaker 7: Well, you were right to be skeptical of grand platinum.
• 20:59
  Speaker 9: I was.
• 21:00
  Speaker 8: Yes, I guess I was skeptical.
• 21:01
  Speaker 7: Would you like to take a victory lap?
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: I do not want to take a victory lap. This
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: is not a good moment for. I mean, first of all,
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: it's not a good moment. for Graham Plattner. It's not
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: a good moment for the women that he allegedly tormented
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: and assaulted.
• 21:16
  Speaker 8: It's not a good.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: Moment for the Democratic Party because I think we're at
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: a real crossroads here in terms of how the Democratic
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: Party manages candidate recruitment and what it means to answer
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: the toxic masculinity of MAGA.
• 21:30
  Speaker 8: And it's not a good moment because the focus has
• 21:33
  Speaker 8: been taken off of Susan Collins. And so.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: It's hard to take a victory lap. I mean, I
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: hope out of this, there's a little bit.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: The thing about Graham, I was not like some sage
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: and like saw into the future or anything, but I
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: was always just the bro glow was a little bit.
• 21:52
  Speaker 8: I didn't get it. I didn't like the way.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: I was never a Janet Mills supporter, but I didn't
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: like people summarily dismissed her.
• 22:01
  Speaker 7: And I felt like I just summarily dismissed her.
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 22:03
  Speaker 8: And that's not to say that she should be the nominee.
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: But I feel like there's like there was always like
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: latent misogyny around it. And I felt like, you know,
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: in the retrospect, and maybe this is just hindsight's 2020
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: or whatever, but there are a lot of women who.
• 22:15
  Speaker 4: in a lot of places who were like, never really
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: that on board and kind of felt a little bit
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: sheepish saying, I don't know about that guy.
• 22:22
  Speaker 8: He seems kind of like an asshole.
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: I mean, I got into fights with platinum supporters, you know,
• 22:29
  Speaker 4: where the context of the conversation was, he has talent.
• 22:33
  Speaker 8: He might be able to get the job done, but
• 22:34
  Speaker 8: he seems like a dick.
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: And there was a real, and like the dickishness may
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: not just be a sign.
• 22:41
  Speaker 8: A sort of side effect of.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: Ambition, but maybe like a more complicated and potentially serious
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: character flaw.
• 22:48
  Speaker 8: And as it turns out, I think that's what it was.
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: This is someone who's completely self-absorbed to the point of
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: maybe almost like a certain psychosis based on that exit
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: video and certainly has some demons he really needs to
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: wrestle with.
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: You know, I.
• 23:06
  Speaker 7: When I say summarily dismissed Mills, let me say what
• 23:08
  Speaker 7: my actual position was because this is sort of how
• 23:10
  Speaker 7: you and I first had this conversation was I– Janet
• 23:14
  Speaker 7: Mills gets in the race. The DSCC endorses her five
• 23:18
  Speaker 7: minutes later. Chuck Schumer endorses her. And we know at
• 23:22
  Speaker 7: the time that the DSCC has been trying to clear
• 23:25
  Speaker 7: the field for Janet Mills, telling people like Hannah Pingree
• 23:28
  Speaker 7: and these other candidates in Maine to run for governor
• 23:30
  Speaker 7: and not run for Senate because Janet Mills is going
• 23:33
  Speaker 7: to be– is the chosen candidate of the Democratic establishment.
• 23:36
  Speaker 7: My view at the time was that I thought that
• 23:38
  Speaker 7: was a big mistake for the DSCC, that if the
• 23:41
  Speaker 7: DSCC is going to get involved in a primary, they
• 23:43
  Speaker 7: better be 100% certain that they have the best candidate.
• 23:47
  Speaker 7: And I didn't think you could look at what happened
• 23:50
  Speaker 7: with Susan Collins in 2020, what happened in the country
• 23:53
  Speaker 7: in 2024, and declare beyond a shadow of a doubt
• 23:57
  Speaker 7: that a 79-year-old unpopular two-term governor was our best bet.
• 24:03
  Speaker 7: I wasn't convinced Graham Plattner was a better bet, but
• 24:05
  Speaker 7: I thought the voters of Maine should pick it up. Now,
• 24:08
  Speaker 7: I was intrigued by Plattner for sure. I'm not going
• 24:10
  Speaker 7: to take that. I'm not going to dispute that. I've
• 24:12
  Speaker 7: been thinking a lot because I was wrong here. I
• 24:15
  Speaker 7: don't like being wrong. It happens a lot. But I've
• 24:18
  Speaker 7: really tried to think about where I erred in this.
• 24:23
  Speaker 7: And there are a couple of places. And so I'll
• 24:26
  Speaker 7: say what those were. The first is if I have
• 24:29
  Speaker 7: a bias or you can even say a blind spot.
• 24:32
  Speaker 7: in politics.
• 24:33
  Speaker 8: It's for.
• 24:36
  Speaker 7: Outsider candidates who did not grow up their entire life
• 24:40
  Speaker 7: wanting to be in office. That's why I like Barack
• 24:44
  Speaker 7: Obama over Hillary Clinton. That's why I really loved Beto
• 24:48
  Speaker 7: O'Rourke when he was running for Senate and was intrigued
• 24:50
  Speaker 7: by his potential as presidential candidate. It's why I supported
• 24:52
  Speaker 7: Mallory Monroe in the Michigan Senate race this cycle. That's
• 24:57
  Speaker 7: what gets me most interested are candidates like that. I
• 24:59
  Speaker 7: think They have the potential to be the best candidates
• 25:02
  Speaker 7: and they can make the best leaders because they're just
• 25:04
  Speaker 7: like more, they've lived a normal life. They're more human.
• 25:07
  Speaker 7: They talk more like a human and they're less risk averse.
• 25:10
  Speaker 7: You know, the people who spent their whole lives deciding
• 25:12
  Speaker 7: like what mistakes not to make to avoid being, to
• 25:17
  Speaker 7: avoid cutting off their path to higher office generally are
• 25:20
  Speaker 7: not the best leaders.
• 25:21
  Speaker 8: Living authentic lives.
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 25:22
  Speaker 7: And I think that makes you a better candidate. It
• 25:24
  Speaker 7: absolutely does. Now that will blow up in your face
• 25:26
  Speaker 7: a bunch because those candidates are by definition higher risk.
• 25:31
  Speaker 7: They have higher ceilings and lower floors. And so that's
• 25:34
  Speaker 7: why I was intrigued by Plattner. I thought to beat
• 25:36
  Speaker 7: Susan Collins, you needed a higher variance candidate, someone who
• 25:39
  Speaker 7: could do something different than Sarah Gideon did or all
• 25:41
  Speaker 7: of the people who came before. And I was not
• 25:43
  Speaker 7: convinced that Janet Mills could do that. And I do
• 25:46
  Speaker 7: believe that that was actually the right call. Not that
• 25:49
  Speaker 7: Plattner was the right person. Obviously, he was not. But
• 25:51
  Speaker 7: that Janet Mills was the wrong candidate.
• 25:54
  Speaker 8: And we see that now. That's borne out in polling
• 25:55
  Speaker 8: that we have even now.
• 25:57
  Speaker 7: And so- And then the second, the thing that, you know,
• 26:01
  Speaker 7: that I feel I'm mad at myself about is, you know,
• 26:05
  Speaker 7: as we went through this process, well, you and I
• 26:08
  Speaker 7: had first had this conversation there. We knew nothing about platinum.
• 26:09
  Speaker 7: Then we saw the online posts and, you know, was
• 26:13
  Speaker 7: the things he said were horrible. And I thought there
• 26:15
  Speaker 7: was a real chance that could be disqualifying both in
• 26:17
  Speaker 7: the primary and the general to voters.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 26:20
  Speaker 7: But I did believe naively, apparently the story he told
• 26:25
  Speaker 7: about being a person who was dealing with PTSD and
• 26:28
  Speaker 7: a dark time in their life in drinking and did
• 26:30
  Speaker 7: a bunch of things and then changed their life, improved.
• 26:34
  Speaker 7: And I do believe that we should leave space for
• 26:38
  Speaker 7: people who make mistakes to still be in politics.
• 26:42
  Speaker 8: Of course.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: I think redemption and empathy are like things we need
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: to cultivate as a society beyond politics.
• 26:48
  Speaker 7: And I believed that, and I believed, and I actually
• 26:52
  Speaker 7: still believe this, the story he told about how he
• 26:55
  Speaker 7: got the tattoo was true. Now, what I've come to, like,
• 26:59
  Speaker 7: I do not believe that he knew it was a
• 27:01
  Speaker 7: Nazi tattoo, and I certainly don't believe he was a
• 27:03
  Speaker 7: secret Nazi. For all the very, very many bad things.
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:06
  Speaker 8: I'm with Tim Miller on this though.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: I think he got it, then figured out what it
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: was and then kind of use it as a, a, like,
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: you know, a cocktail point.
• 27:16
  Speaker 7: I think he lied about when he discovered that it
• 27:18
  Speaker 7: was a Nazi tattoo that, that I have come to believe,
• 27:20
  Speaker 7: but I don't, there's, this is a guy who was
• 27:22
  Speaker 7: not shy about sharing his opinions online. So I feel
• 27:23
  Speaker 7: like if he really was a Nazi, we would know that. Um,
• 27:27
  Speaker 7: now you could say that the Nazi tattoo, one thing
• 27:30
  Speaker 7: people say is anyone who gets a Nazi tattoo for
• 27:31
  Speaker 7: whatever reasons has bad judgment. And that may be, but
• 27:34
  Speaker 7: a lot of people in their 20s, when they're on
• 27:36
  Speaker 7: leave from war and drunk, have bad judgment.
• 27:38
  Speaker 8: I mean, you have a Celtic band around your forcep, right?
• 27:42
  Speaker 7: I have no tattoos.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: I have a bunch of back tattoos, a bunch of
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: butterflies that I regret now.
• 27:49
  Speaker 8: But not the shamrock on my ankle.
• 27:51
  Speaker 7: I love that. They're not Nazi butterflies, correct?
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: No.
• 27:56
  Speaker 8: I actually have no back tattoos, just for the fucking record.
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: I don't know.
• 27:58
  Speaker 8: I'm not that girl, Dan.
• 27:59
  Speaker 7: I don't have a toe ring. Anywho, the other thing
• 28:05
  Speaker 7: I regret, and this is where I really started to
• 28:07
  Speaker 7: get very worried about Grant Plattner was when the story
• 28:11
  Speaker 7: came out in May about him sexting other women while married.
• 28:16
  Speaker 7: And it's not that people can't make mistakes in their
• 28:18
  Speaker 7: marriage and still run for office. That happens all the time.
• 28:21
  Speaker 7: It was that that happened so recently that it really
• 28:24
  Speaker 7: brought into question the redemption story that I had naively
• 28:28
  Speaker 7: believed from him. It's one thing to make mistakes in
• 28:32
  Speaker 7: a different part of your life. And then the story
• 28:34
  Speaker 7: he told was he made a bunch of mistakes. He
• 28:36
  Speaker 7: changed his life. He started working. He got into politics.
• 28:39
  Speaker 7: But that wasn't the story. That wasn't the reality. But
• 28:42
  Speaker 7: even then, it was like his wife said they worked
• 28:44
  Speaker 7: through it with counseling. We all followed their fertility journey together.
• 28:47
  Speaker 7: It just seemed like they had put it behind them.
• 28:50
  Speaker 7: But it really made me wonder what the next thing was, right?
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: And then he lied to everybody. And then he lied
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: to everybody.
• 28:58
  Speaker 7: But the thing when I look back on all of that,
• 29:00
  Speaker 7: is don't believe a liar is a really, like that's
• 29:02
  Speaker 7: not helpful advice because how do you, you don't know
• 29:05
  Speaker 7: someone's a liar until you find out later. What I
• 29:08
  Speaker 7: think I should have paid more attention to was that
• 29:12
  Speaker 7: back in March, you and I did a political experts
• 29:15
  Speaker 7: react where we were looking at ads that were running
• 29:18
  Speaker 7: in that race. This included the first negative ad that
• 29:20
  Speaker 7: Janet Mills launched against Platner, which had a bunch of
• 29:24
  Speaker 7: women reading, like reacting to the things that Um, Platner
• 29:29
  Speaker 7: had posted and the one that were there and you
• 29:33
  Speaker 7: made this point to me, um, and it really was,
• 29:35
  Speaker 7: has been in my head for the last few weeks
• 29:36
  Speaker 7: here is what he said about minimizing rape and that
• 29:43
  Speaker 7: sort of inherent misogyny should have been a much bigger flag.
• 29:47
  Speaker 7: That is a sign of something else that I wish
• 29:53
  Speaker 7: I had paid more attention to that in this discussion.
• 29:57
  Speaker 7: And that was separate and apart from some of the
• 30:00
  Speaker 7: other things that he said that were just stupid and offensive.
• 30:02
  Speaker 7: That was dangerous and offensive.
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: That just for, I'm going to paraphrase it a little bit,
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: but that was the Reddit post where he said people
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: should take some responsibility and not get so fucked up
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: that they end up having sex with someone they don't
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: mean to. which is deeply ironic considering the allegations against him.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: Can I ask you something, Dan?
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, of course.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: And I genuinely don't know what I think about this
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: because we talk a lot about Schumer, and obviously this
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: was just a totally fakakta situation where the DSCC is
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: intervening to the detriment of the race. But Chuck Schumer
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: is also picking candidates in a lot of other swing
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: states and putting the heft of the DSCC behind people
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: like Mary Paltola and Roy Cooper and Sherrod Brown and
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: people who– are good candidates for those races. And maybe
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: they would have gotten there regardless of Schumer's involvement. But like,
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: are we, and I genuinely don't have an answer to this.
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: Are we focused on this because he just did such
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: a colossally bad fucking job picking the candidate in this race?
• 31:05
  Speaker 7: What he did in Alaska, North Carolina, and Ohio was
• 31:10
  Speaker 7: he recruit candidates who could clear the field themselves. They
• 31:14
  Speaker 7: were candidates so good, so well-known, so universally believed to
• 31:18
  Speaker 7: be the best candidate that no one would run against them.
• 31:20
  Speaker 7: So it wasn't like there were a bunch of other
• 31:22
  Speaker 7: people running. Janet Mills was not that candidate.
• 31:25
  Speaker 8: Janet Mills didn't even want to run.
• 31:27
  Speaker 7: Yeah, that's the other thing, right? And also Maine is
• 31:31
  Speaker 7: a state with lots of Democrats. Alaska, there's only one.
• 31:34
  Speaker 7: The recruitment list for Alaska was Murray Paltola. There was
• 31:37
  Speaker 7: no one else, right? It was Paltola or bust.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Ohio?
• 31:41
  Speaker 9: No.
• 31:41
  Speaker 7: It was Sherrod Brown, and there was a long gap
• 31:43
  Speaker 7: between one and two on that list. North Carolina, you
• 31:46
  Speaker 7: got a few more Democrats who could have run, but
• 31:48
  Speaker 7: Roy Cooper was far at the top of that list.
• 31:49
  Speaker 7: So once you got those, it wasn't– it's where– I
• 31:53
  Speaker 7: didn't like what they did in Michigan, backing Haley Stevens.
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: There's a Texas element of all this as well that
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: could end up not working out very– who knows?
• 32:01
  Speaker 7: Yeah. My general view is Chuck Schumer, the DSEC, should
• 32:06
  Speaker 7: recruit candidates. If they think someone's the best, Chuck Schumer's
• 32:08
  Speaker 7: going to try to convince them to do it. They
• 32:10
  Speaker 7: should do that. When there was an active primary going
• 32:12
  Speaker 7: on and then they put their thumb on the scale
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: and they take that choice away from the voters. Now,
• 32:18
  Speaker 7: when I first wrote this and was first upset about it,
• 32:21
  Speaker 7: it's because the DSCC-backed candidate always won the primary. Politics
• 32:24
  Speaker 7: has changed so much in the last two years that
• 32:27
  Speaker 7: that's actually become an albatross around people's necks as opposed
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: to this huge asset. But at the time, it was
• 32:34
  Speaker 7: the DSCC could pick the candidate and essentially take the
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: agency away from the voter, which is what they were
• 32:39
  Speaker 7: trying to do and made. that did not work in Maine.
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: It's not that the DSCC and Schumer were wrong in
• 32:49
  Speaker 7: every instance, it's just they were wrong in this one.
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, and the dynamics of it are particular, and
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: the outcome could have been meaningfully different if Chuck Schumer
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: hadn't tried to clear the field and do what he did.
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: And in fact, I think in some ways, elevate Plattner
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: in the course of all of that, right? He became
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: a poster child for defiance and grassroots activism and saying,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: fuck you to politics as usual.
• 33:14
  Speaker 7: The same thing happened in Michigan, where by putting the
• 33:17
  Speaker 7: thumb on the scale for Haley Stevens, he elevated Abdul.
• 33:21
  Speaker 7: And then one of the worst things that happened to
• 33:23
  Speaker 7: Malik Morrow was a report, I think in Politico or
• 33:25
  Speaker 7: somewhere else that said Schumer would be fine with either
• 33:27
  Speaker 7: Haley or Mallory. So all of a sudden Abdul got
• 33:30
  Speaker 7: to go out and say all the time, I'm the
• 33:32
  Speaker 7: only candidate that Chuck Schumer opposes in this race.
• 33:35
  Speaker 8: And continues.
• 33:35
  Speaker 7: I mean, continues to do that. The thing I've been
• 33:39
  Speaker 7: struggling with this conversation, this has been a, I would
• 33:41
  Speaker 7: say it's not been a fun time online for a
• 33:44
  Speaker 7: podcast associated with Graham Plattner.
• 33:46
  Speaker 8: Um, Speak for yourself.
• 33:49
  Speaker 7: I'm just kidding. I mean, you should have your moment.
• 33:52
  Speaker 7: But is that really trying to struggle?
• 33:55
  Speaker 8: No, it hasn't been fun. It hasn't been fun.
• 33:56
  Speaker 7: I've tried to struggle with what like the broader lesson
• 34:00
  Speaker 7: is here. Because it shouldn't be that outsider candidates are bad.
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: But Dan, you're speaking so broadly. Like this guy, you
• 34:10
  Speaker 4: didn't have to know that he was a dick from
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: the beginning. But once the Reddit posts started coming out, Like,
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: I'm all for redemption, but there were a lot of
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: data points.
• 34:21
  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean, that is the true. But
• 34:26
  Speaker 7: I think what I'm saying, like, for example, there was
• 34:27
  Speaker 7: this Biden aide who's on CNN today who is saying,
• 34:32
  Speaker 7: basically taking Plattner, comparing him to Abdul El-Sayed and saying, like,
• 34:36
  Speaker 7: also unvetted, same consultants. And it was just absurd because
• 34:41
  Speaker 7: Abdul has run for governor, um, and has been a
• 34:44
  Speaker 7: government official in Michigan for a while. So that's an
• 34:46
  Speaker 7: absurd comparison, but is this idea that people who are
• 34:51
  Speaker 7: outsiders or first time candidates are risk inherently risky because
• 34:55
  Speaker 7: they haven't been tested. They've been vetted by the system.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 34:58
  Speaker 8: That's what I mean. Nobody should take a broad lesson
• 35:00
  Speaker 8: about outsiders from the Platner.
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 35:03
  Speaker 7: Because here were two other people who have had, uh,
• 35:07
  Speaker 7: huge sexual misconduct, sexual assault problems, who are the insider
• 35:11
  Speaker 7: candidates of Eric Swalwell and Andrew Cuomo.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 35:14
  Speaker 7: Right. There's nothing about being a creep that is exclusive
• 35:17
  Speaker 7: to first time candidates. It's also true. I mean, the
• 35:20
  Speaker 7: other thing that, you know, the other, as we think
• 35:23
  Speaker 7: about this and like what it all means, like one
• 35:26
  Speaker 7: story that people can tell, and it's not an incorrect story,
• 35:30
  Speaker 7: is that a bunch of podcast bros and democratic strategists
• 35:34
  Speaker 7: and other dumb men online fell for the shtick of
• 35:40
  Speaker 7: this narcissist, right? And that it was true that a
• 35:47
  Speaker 7: lot of women, a lot of women in my life
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: that I regret not listening to, like you and Sarah
• 35:51
  Speaker 7: Longwell and other people who have raised these flags, you know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 7: and this was like dumb men and much more insightful women.
• 35:58
  Speaker 7: And they're in the loudest voices, I think, criticizing Plattner,
• 36:02
  Speaker 7: particularly nationally.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: Were women.
• 36:05
  Speaker 7: But then you look in Maine and Plattner beat Mills,
• 36:09
  Speaker 7: was beating Mills by like 15 points among women. A
• 36:12
  Speaker 7: majority of that 150,000 votes was women. And so I just,
• 36:15
  Speaker 7: you know, I was just reading Rebecca Tracer's very insightful
• 36:18
  Speaker 7: piece and thoughtful piece about her support of Graham Plattner.
• 36:21
  Speaker 8: Well, Michelle Goldberg has one as well. Can I say something?
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: Well, To your point about the podcast bros and other guys,
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: I think, and I feel like I always sound like, um,
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: you know, Brown university professor, when I say this, there's
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: a real crisis right now in terms of how the
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: left responds to MAGA style masculinity and like what it
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: means to be tough and a warrior, but also progressive
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: and a populist. And like, what is that special alchemy?
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: And like, we got the, the, the left needs to
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: build that person. They need someone who can, who can
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: be the antidote to all of the, the just utterly
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: toxic garbage male sort of, um, masculinity that is being
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: showcased on the right, which is ultra retrograde, misogynist, and
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: bad for the country, setting aside bad for women. And
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: Plattner was a unicorn in that way. He felt like, okay,
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: here's someone who's legitimately a progressive and he's a man's
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: man and all this. And that was, I think, intoxicating
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: to a group of men in particular who are looking
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: for that answer. And it may be a latent desire.
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: It may be an explicit desire, but I do think
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: as a dude in the world, who's a progressive, it's
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: a weird complicated time, which doesn't mean we should overly
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: focus on men.
• 37:37
  Speaker 8: I get it, but it is a problem.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: I mean, I have two boys, like there is a
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: dearth of real kind of like, um, there's, there's no
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: playbook for how to be a guy in this moment.
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: And I think if you're in the world of politics
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: and you're in media and You're kind of trying to,
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: you're bouncing between archetypes and you're trying to figure out like, okay,
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: what's the way to be? What should we be supporting
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: and championing? And Plattner was very attractive in that way.
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: And I think that's part of the reason he took off,
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: at least in the online media space, in a way that,
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, Mills never was going to, but even other
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: guys in American politics haven't. I mean, he was just
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: incredibly compelling in that way.
• 38:16
  Speaker 7: I mean, he was an excellent communicator. If you listen
• 38:18
  Speaker 7: to his interviews, like we did the New York Times podcast,
• 38:22
  Speaker 7: the interview he did with our friend Ben Rhodes about
• 38:25
  Speaker 7: post 9-11 wars. He was interesting and thoughtful and obviously
• 38:31
  Speaker 7: how he looked and how he sounded affected that. But
• 38:36
  Speaker 7: it just was all bullshit is the problem.
• 38:39
  Speaker 8: Yeah, no, he's a pig.
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: And that's what's so devastating is like, oh, well, it
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: turns out actually that brand of machismo is totally corrupted.
• 38:51
  Speaker 7: Which is bad. Or this particular vehicle. There was something
• 38:58
  Speaker 7: Plattner was offering both in Maine and nationally that was
• 39:01
  Speaker 7: compelling to a lot of people. The problem was that
• 39:04
  Speaker 7: the person who was offering that was Graham Plattner.
• 39:08
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: And so, like, how do you– like, it's– like, we
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: have to spend some time. We're not going to do
• 39:13
  Speaker 7: it here. We can't do it here. Over time, just
• 39:15
  Speaker 7: figuring out, like, what was it– I don't want to
• 39:17
  Speaker 7: overstate how important this was once against 150,000 fucking people
• 39:19
  Speaker 7: in Maine. This is not– you know, this is not– Right.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: But, I mean, this was someone whose– his advisor said
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: that he could run for president in 2020.
• 39:26
  Speaker 8: This wasn't going to end in May.
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 39:28
  Speaker 7: But every– I've been around a lot of Senate candidates.
• 39:32
  Speaker 7: Consultants sell it to every fucking person.
• 39:33
  Speaker 5: Yes, fine.
• 39:34
  Speaker 7: They all want them to because it's very much in
• 39:36
  Speaker 7: every consultant's interest. Everyone wants to be David Axelrod, James Carville.
• 39:40
  Speaker 7: you know, Karl Rove. And so they're looking for those
• 39:42
  Speaker 7: people all the time. It doesn't mean they actually would,
• 39:44
  Speaker 7: but he was a financial phenomenon. He broke out in
• 39:47
  Speaker 7: a way that like, I mean, this is a bad example,
• 39:49
  Speaker 7: but in a way that, um, you know, Stacy, this
• 39:52
  Speaker 7: is a good example. Stacy Abrams did, even though she
• 39:54
  Speaker 7: didn't win way that Beto broke out. And so it's like, yeah,
• 39:57
  Speaker 7: they're like, there was something there. And it's like, what
• 39:58
  Speaker 7: was that? And how do you set, try to figure
• 40:00
  Speaker 7: out what that is? That's separate from the very damaged,
• 40:04
  Speaker 7: very fucked up person. The pig, as you said, he
• 40:06
  Speaker 7: did this.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 40:07
  Speaker 7: Enough of Graham Platner. Um, How much damage do you–
• 40:11
  Speaker 7: like how fucked are we in Maine after all of this?
• 40:13
  Speaker 7: Do we– like what kind of shot do you think
• 40:15
  Speaker 7: we have against Susan Collins now?
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: I think– and I mean I think my advice would
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: be say the word Susan Collins every time you want
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: to say Graham Plattner over and over and over again
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: because she is weak, but she is going to be
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: a challenge. We don't need to go to the numbers.
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: We've talked about them a lot, but she overperforms or
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: she has in most elections she's been in recently. This
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: is the first one she's going to have to face
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: voters since Roe fell. So and I think that that's
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: legit in a state that's what, 60 percent of the
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: electorate is female. You know, hopefully people remember the fact
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: that she built the Supreme Court that overturned Roe. She
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: was the critical vote in the Kavanaugh confirmation and fancies
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: herself a moderate, which is complete horseshit.
• 41:06
  Speaker 8: I don't know, Dan.
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think that the fact that I take
• 41:11
  Speaker 4: it as a positive sign in a way that Maine
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: voters are so desperate or they're so fired up about
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: getting Susan Collins out that they were willing to overlook
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: the initial phase of Graham Plattner's very serious transgressions.
• 41:25
  Speaker 8: I mean, that's, I guess, the silver lining, right?
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: But, you know, the party's got to manage this process
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: in a way that doesn't further disillusion Democratic voters anymore.
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: Graham Platter needs to shut the fuck up. And the
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: focus really needs to return like a laser to Susan Collins.
• 41:44
  Speaker 7: I think if we can– now, this is me being
• 41:47
  Speaker 7: glass half full. If we can pick the right person–
• 41:50
  Speaker 7: and the right person might just be someone named Generic
• 41:52
  Speaker 7: Democrat with no tattoos. He doesn't know how to get
• 41:56
  Speaker 7: to Reddit. Um, we are in a better place than
• 42:00
  Speaker 7: we would have been with either Graham Platner pre even,
• 42:04
  Speaker 7: let's say that this accusation never happened where Graham Platner
• 42:06
  Speaker 7: would have been, um, just everything we knew up until
• 42:09
  Speaker 7: two days ago that we have potential for this, uh,
• 42:13
  Speaker 7: new person to be stronger than that and stronger than
• 42:15
  Speaker 7: Janet Mills would have been. Um, cause even be like
• 42:18
  Speaker 7: in that during time, Santa Paul from two weeks ago,
• 42:20
  Speaker 7: after all the sexting stuff and all this came out,
• 42:22
  Speaker 7: Graham Platner was still more popular than Janet Mills. Um,
• 42:26
  Speaker 7: And so we have a chance here. Now, this is
• 42:29
  Speaker 7: a state where, using the same New York Times poll,
• 42:31
  Speaker 7: Democrats lead the generic ballot by 11 points. They want
• 42:34
  Speaker 7: the Senate to be in Democratic hands by 11 points,
• 42:39
  Speaker 7: I believe, 11 or 12 points. And this is a
• 42:42
  Speaker 7: state that's more Democratic than 2020. A lot of people
• 42:47
  Speaker 7: who profile as Democratic voters move to Maine, particularly to
• 42:50
  Speaker 7: the Portland area, starting around COVID. So it's been– it's
• 42:53
  Speaker 7: actually a state that has grown from in-migration. So we
• 42:57
  Speaker 7: should still be able to win the race. It's going
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: to be really fucking hard. Collins is going to have
• 42:59
  Speaker 7: so much money. She's had to spend almost none of it.
• 43:02
  Speaker 7: There's going to be a gazillion dollars.
• 43:04
  Speaker 8: Big war chest.
• 43:05
  Speaker 7: And pack money. But I do think there's a chance
• 43:09
  Speaker 7: we can make this all– like every– this is what
• 43:11
  Speaker 7: I was saying. This is my unsolicited advice to the
• 43:15
  Speaker 7: partner people two weeks ago, which was like all this
• 43:18
  Speaker 7: Epstein Island– You know, reordering politics, populism stuff is like–
• 43:24
  Speaker 7: all that matters is that Susan Collins, no matter what
• 43:27
  Speaker 7: else you feel about her, a vote for her is
• 43:30
  Speaker 7: a vote to let Donald Trump control the Senate and
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: pick Supreme Court justices.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 43:36
  Speaker 7: It doesn't matter how you feel about her. It doesn't
• 43:37
  Speaker 7: matter if you liked her personally. It doesn't matter if
• 43:39
  Speaker 7: she got money for the iron bathworks or whatever else.
• 43:42
  Speaker 7: She is– a vote for her is a vote to
• 43:46
  Speaker 7: let Donald Trump pick two more Supreme Court justices. Full stop.
• 43:49
  Speaker 7: Just– Like that's what people care about. That's what it's about.
• 43:52
  Speaker 7: Don't let me bet anything else. Don't overcomplicate the fucking symbol.
• 43:54
  Speaker 7: So I do believe we can still win this. It'll
• 43:56
  Speaker 7: be hard.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Totally agree.
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: I interviewed Adam Jentleson, former deputy chief of staff to
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: Harry Reid and chief of staff to John Fetterman in
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: the podcast. And he is aligned with you that this
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: makes– the Democrats' chances are better now than they were
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: a week ago when Plattner was still in the race
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: before the Politico reporting.
• 44:13
  Speaker 8: So there's that.
• 44:14
  Speaker 7: There's that.
• 44:15
  Speaker 8: That was like a therapy session, Dan.
• 44:18
  Speaker 7: I've had a lot to say for a few days here,
• 44:20
  Speaker 7: so I'm glad we could have this conversation.
• 44:21
  Speaker 8: I feel very honored that you wanted to share those
• 44:23
  Speaker 8: things with me.
• 44:24
  Speaker 7: I'm actually, if John was not on vacation, I would
• 44:27
  Speaker 7: have suggested that we swap him out for you. I
• 44:28
  Speaker 7: feel better doing this with you.
• 44:30
  Speaker 8: Well, thanks. I mean, we've gone on a long road together.
• 44:33
  Speaker 9: My brother.
• 44:34
  Speaker 7: We've been on a long, main journey. It's been a long,
• 44:36
  Speaker 7: strange dip. Yeah, we have.
• 44:45
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• 47:15
  Speaker 7: All right, now let's turn to a new story of
• 47:17
  Speaker 7: interest to just slightly more people than the main Senate race,
• 47:19
  Speaker 7: the war with Iran, which seems to be close to
• 47:22
  Speaker 7: restarting any minute now. Ships transiting the Strait of Hormuz
• 47:26
  Speaker 7: started coming under fire again earlier this week. On Tuesday,
• 47:29
  Speaker 7: the U.S. military responded by hitting targets in Iran and
• 47:32
  Speaker 7: reimposing sanctions on Iranian oil. Iran responded to that with
• 47:36
  Speaker 7: shots at American installations in the Middle East. We responded
• 47:39
  Speaker 7: to that with more strikes and so on and so on.
• 47:42
  Speaker 7: It's all a giant mess and getting worse by the hour.
• 47:45
  Speaker 7: The good news is that Donald Trump seems to have
• 47:46
  Speaker 7: a very good handle on all of this. Here he
• 47:50
  Speaker 7: is at this week's NATO summit in Turkey.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: Is the ceasefire over?
• 47:53
  Speaker 8: Is the ceasefire done? Is the MOU dead?
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: It's a very interesting question.
• 48:00
  Speaker 5: To me, I think it's over. I don't want to
• 48:04
  Speaker 5: deal with them anymore. They're scum.
• 48:06
  Speaker 4: We had 111 missiles shot by the Islamic Republic of Japan.
• 48:16
  Speaker 7: The Islamic Republic of Japan.
• 48:17
  Speaker 8: That's a headline story. I didn't even know.
• 48:19
  Speaker 7: I mean, not only, not only has it become Islamic,
• 48:24
  Speaker 7: they're also at war with the United States right now.
• 48:27
  Speaker 8: So much happened while I was so.
• 48:29
  Speaker 7: Deep in Maine politics. We missed a lot of stuff
• 48:32
  Speaker 7: around the world. So I'm sure Tommy and Ben covered this.
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 48:36
  Speaker 8: Well, thank God. Thank God we have them on watch.
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 48:40
  Speaker 7: Things seem to be going well in the Middle East, huh?
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: Totally.
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: The line out of the White House is, this is
• 48:46
  Speaker 4: according to Axios, I think today, we're going to slap
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: Iran around a bit so they understand we're not fucking around.
• 48:53
  Speaker 8: That's the strategy here.
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: They are saying that this next stage of war could
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: be weeks, could be months. But the essence of this, Dan,
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: is that Iran is not happy about the way things
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: are going in the Strait of Hormuz, and they want
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: to reclaim control of it. And that is an unresolved
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: dispute that is going to continue to fuck the global
• 49:17
  Speaker 4: economy and could.
• 49:18
  Speaker 8: Make life incredibly painful.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: For Republicans heading into the midterms.
• 49:22
  Speaker 8: And so, I mean, the idea.
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: That anything was resolved by a page and a half docusign,
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: however many weeks ago that was, is a joke, as
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: is this administration's foreign policy.
• 49:35
  Speaker 8: I am not surprised that.
• 49:39
  Speaker 7: We are here.
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: I also am unclear as to how any of this
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: resolves itself given the utterly– we are at loggerheads with
• 49:47
  Speaker 4: the Iranians over the Strait. They want ships to pass
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: through on their side of the Strait and register with
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: the– wait for it– Hormuz Transit Authority. Can someone get
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: me an HTA hat?
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 50:02
  Speaker 8: And instead, the U.S.
• 50:03
  Speaker 4: Is like, because that's how they're going to tax people
• 50:06
  Speaker 4: or toll people or companies as they go through the strait.
• 50:09
  Speaker 8: And the U.S. is like, you know, go the southern route.
• 50:11
  Speaker 8: Don't register with the HTA.
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: Use the side of the strait where Oman rules the water,
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: if you will.
• 50:19
  Speaker 8: That's not going over well with the Iranians.
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: And now we're back at war because the fundamental issue
• 50:24
  Speaker 4: at the heart of this is nowhere close to being resolved.
• 50:28
  Speaker 7: The Wall Street Journal had a story that said that
• 50:30
  Speaker 7: this is all basically happening because Section 5 of the
• 50:33
  Speaker 7: ceasefire agreement that I would say Trump signed at Versailles
• 50:38
  Speaker 7: is poorly written and has led to a lot of
• 50:40
  Speaker 7: confusion about what a written in control of the street
• 50:42
  Speaker 7: actually means.
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah. They never really worked it out because it was
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: a page and a half because it's a joke because
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: there was no diplomatic process. And it's just that they
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: wanted to get gas prices down.
• 50:54
  Speaker 7: Yeah, they wanted to say the Strait was open so
• 50:57
  Speaker 7: that the market would improve and oil prices would start
• 50:59
  Speaker 7: to go down even if the Strait was not actually open.
• 51:02
  Speaker 8: It's insane.
• 51:04
  Speaker 4: Now, gas prices have ticked up a little bit. They're
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: not where they used to be. But, you know, when
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: you are so ambiguous about what the goal is, how
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: this could possibly resolve itself, the diplomatic process seems, I
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: don't know, he says they're cuckoo.
• 51:16
  Speaker 8: I'm done dealing with them. They're sickos.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: Like, I mean, half of that is bluster or three
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: quarters of it is bluster. But I'm not, I've never
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: been that confident in Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff negotiating
• 51:27
  Speaker 4: this process, though they are a crackerjack team of diplomats.
• 51:32
  Speaker 4: And what confidence should we have that this doesn't stretch on,
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: off and on, not being called a war forever? The
• 51:39
  Speaker 4: only thing standing in Trump's way, I guess, is the
• 51:40
  Speaker 4: appropriations process and the fact that he's asking Congress for
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: another $ 350 billion and Republicans may not be super stoked
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: on doing that four months before the midterms.
• 51:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah, this goes to the point I like to make
• 51:53
  Speaker 7: about this, which is anyone dumb enough to start this
• 51:55
  Speaker 7: war is too dumb to get out of it, which
• 51:57
  Speaker 7: is sort of where we are.
• 51:58
  Speaker 8: Totally, yeah.
• 52:01
  Speaker 7: As you pointed out, oil prices and gas prices have
• 52:04
  Speaker 7: gone up a little bit through this. The stock market's
• 52:06
  Speaker 7: gone down. Ships are still passing through the strait, although
• 52:09
  Speaker 7: it's still well below pre-war levels.
• 52:13
  Speaker 8: One third. One third of pre-war levels.
• 52:15
  Speaker 7: But the administration is finally taking at least one step
• 52:18
  Speaker 7: to help with gas prices. Let's take a look.
• 52:20
  Speaker 10: We're here at the first Freedom Fuel Network gas station
• 52:24
  Speaker 10: right here in Philadelphia, leading the charge to lower gas prices. $ 3.
• 52:28
  Speaker 7: 47.
• 52:29
  Speaker 10: That's for our 47th president, President Donald J.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: Trump.
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: When I saw it, I thought it was fake news,
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: but I'm glad it's true.
• 52:39
  Speaker 7: Thanks a lot, Trump. Just keep doing what you're doing.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: You're doing a good job.
• 52:42
  Speaker 9: Thank you, President Trump.
• 52:43
  Speaker 8: Thank you for helping our country.
• 52:44
  Speaker 10: It's President Donald J. Trump leading the charge to lower
• 52:47
  Speaker 10: gas prices right here at Freedom Fuel Network's gas stations.
• 52:52
  Speaker 7: You heard that right. The administration's big move is a
• 52:55
  Speaker 7: network of so-called Freedom Fuel stations that are mostly in
• 52:59
  Speaker 7: the larger Philadelphia area. And they are selling gas at $ 3. 47
• 53:03
  Speaker 7: a gallon, 47 cents. Get it? Alex, I believe you
• 53:08
  Speaker 7: have some thoughts on this initiative and I'm going to
• 53:10
  Speaker 7: clear out and let you have them.
• 53:13
  Speaker 8: Okay.
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: First of all, nobody knows who's behind these gas stations.
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: They just like popped up around the Philly area. They
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: used to be like Sunoco stations or Texaco stations. There's
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: just like giant stickers on them. And nobody knows how
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: they're pricing gas at $ 3. 47 because newsflash, the reason gas
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: prices are high is not because gas owners are stubborn
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: and just need to be convinced, get on the bandwagon
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: of cheap gas. It's because they have to be because
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: the market is at where it's at. Now, there's some
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: discretion they have in terms of cents. and on the margins.
• 53:45
  Speaker 4: But when gas is over $ 4 a gallon, it's not
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: because they've gotten greedy. It's because that's where the market is.
• 53:51
  Speaker 4: That's where the price of crude. So this is all
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: smoke and mirrors. This is like a gas station Potemkin village.
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: And I sort of delight in it because it is
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: further proof that Donald Trump is a socialist. These gas
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: stations or gas station owners are clearly getting some kind
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: of government subsidy to lower gas to $ 3. 47. It is
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: meaningfully lower than other area gas stations. And it fits
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: in the suite of decisions Donald Trump has made to
• 54:20
  Speaker 4: have the heavy hand of government get involved in private enterprise,
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: whether that's extorting NVIDIA and Intel for stock. that the
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: government controls in order to get licenses or in order
• 54:31
  Speaker 4: to establish trading overseas, whether that's the tariffs, whether that's
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: the heavy hand of the Trump administration involved in the
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: media and censorship. I mean, this is all the behavior of,
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: I don't know, like someone like Maduro or Putin or
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: take your pick. This is not what free market capitalism
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: is supposed to look like. It is.
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: It is socialism, sometimes communism, maybe outright fascism and authoritarianism
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: under the guise as when it is politically convenient.
• 55:04
  Speaker 8: What a joke.
• 55:05
  Speaker 7: It's also stupid.
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 55:08
  Speaker 7: What possible world is this going to make a difference
• 55:11
  Speaker 7: by having like a handful of gas stations in the
• 55:14
  Speaker 7: Philadelphia area sell gas for a short period of time
• 55:18
  Speaker 7: for slightly cheaper than other parts of the– like it
• 55:21
  Speaker 7: is– they are spitting in the ocean.
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 55:24
  Speaker 8: There are tens of thousands of gas stations across the country.
• 55:28
  Speaker 7: There is a saying when you work in the White House.
• 55:30
  Speaker 7: It's like you want to get caught trying. There are
• 55:32
  Speaker 7: problems you can't solve. They're too big. Congress won't work.
• 55:35
  Speaker 7: But you want people to see you're trying. This doesn't
• 55:37
  Speaker 7: even qualify as trying. They sent this video out saying
• 55:39
  Speaker 7: they're doing this. And then in 99% of the rest
• 55:43
  Speaker 7: of the country, people who see the video are then
• 55:45
  Speaker 7: going to drive to the gas station and gas is
• 55:47
  Speaker 7: going to be the same high price it was before.
• 55:49
  Speaker 7: So you've just angered them because somehow then where you
• 55:53
  Speaker 7: are not valuable enough to get one of these Freedom
• 55:54
  Speaker 7: Fuel stations, you still have to pay the normal price.
• 55:57
  Speaker 7: It's just so stupid. It's all dumb. It's all dumb.
• 56:00
  Speaker 8: I think it's honestly for Trump. Do you know what
• 56:02
  Speaker 8: I mean?
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: I think it's just a video that they can play
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: for him. When the baby gets angry, it's like one
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: of those soothing, like it's one of those, you know,
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: there are these little gummy toys you can give babies.
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: They can chew on when they're teething and they get angry.
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: This is the sort of video version of that.
• 56:17
  Speaker 7: You know what this is? This is Cocomelon for fascist idiots.
• 56:19
  Speaker 8: Yes, that's exactly what it is.
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 56:21
  Speaker 7: All right. One more consequence of the Iran situation we
• 56:24
  Speaker 7: wanted to mention. Trump flew his new Qatari gifted Air
• 56:27
  Speaker 7: Force One to Turkey, but when it was time to leave,
• 56:30
  Speaker 7: he announced that he was sending the jet onto an
• 56:31
  Speaker 7: airbase in England to give American station there a chance
• 56:34
  Speaker 7: to tour the aircraft. and that, quote, for old time's sake,
• 56:37
  Speaker 7: he'd be following in the old plane. He was, of course, lying.
• 56:40
  Speaker 7: The New York Times reported that the Secret Service urged
• 56:42
  Speaker 7: him to take the old plane because it was more
• 56:44
  Speaker 7: secure and the new version doesn't have the same defensive capabilities. Alex,
• 56:49
  Speaker 7: I thought the new Air Force One, which we paid
• 56:50
  Speaker 7: hundreds of millions of dollars, we, the taxpayers, we had
• 56:52
  Speaker 7: hundreds of millions of dollars to rush into service, was
• 56:55
  Speaker 7: totally safe and perfect. Are you shocked by this?
• 56:58
  Speaker 8: Shocked, Dan.
• 56:59
  Speaker 4: I did not realize that when First of all, he
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: has two jets in rotation, and I believe there are
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: two more under construction right now. So it's not like
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: the entrance of this free Qatari jet did anything to
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: help the American taxpayer or saved us any money. I
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: direct you to John Lovett and Tommy Vitor's excellent YouTube
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: conversation on this very topic, which I found quite enlightening.
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: The clearly the jet is not up to snuff. Maybe
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: they spent all the money on like warm nuts that
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: are served right before, right after takeoff or lie flat
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: seats or, you know, really fancy in-flight amenities like face mist.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 57:42
  Speaker 8: But it wasn't on securing the jet the.
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: Way it needs to be because clearly they believe that
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: there was some kind of national security threat flying out
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: of Turkey. They asked people on Air Force One to
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: lower their blinds, which I guess, according to Tommy, is
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: what you do in a war zone, and that the
• 57:55
  Speaker 4: Qatari jet did not have significant missile defense systems on
• 57:59
  Speaker 4: it to keep everybody safe. So they had to fly
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: the old baby blue Air Force One out of the
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: threat zone.
• 58:05
  Speaker 8: That's a problem.
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: You don't want to have to have two jets in
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: rotation because one isn't actually up to, isn't secure enough.
• 58:12
  Speaker 4: Generally speaking, you want the president to be on the
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: safe jet all the time.
• 58:15
  Speaker 7: Because like there's another version of this, right? Which is
• 58:18
  Speaker 7: the Air Force won't exist the way it does. It's
• 58:20
  Speaker 7: built the way it's built in the event because this
• 58:24
  Speaker 7: idea came during the Cold War, which is there is
• 58:27
  Speaker 7: a nuclear war or some other war and the president
• 58:31
  Speaker 7: has to stay in the air for hours and hours
• 58:33
  Speaker 7: and hours to be able to fly anywhere in the
• 58:35
  Speaker 7: world to get to safety and be able to command
• 58:37
  Speaker 7: the US military forces from there. And so you can't
• 58:40
  Speaker 7: like at any point he could be on the new
• 58:43
  Speaker 7: jet And theoretically, something can happen in the world that
• 58:46
  Speaker 7: could put him at risk. But you're on the new jet.
• 58:50
  Speaker 7: This is not just like– it's not a commuter shuttle.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: No.
• 58:54
  Speaker 7: It's just– it's like once again– and this whole thing
• 58:57
  Speaker 7: is so dumb because the jet– he doesn't care about
• 59:01
  Speaker 7: that because it's not that often that the president is
• 59:04
  Speaker 7: actually targeted like this obviously or that he is within
• 59:06
  Speaker 7: ballistic missile range of Iran. But– because he takes the
• 59:14
  Speaker 7: jet with him when he leaves. That's the thing. The
• 59:18
  Speaker 7: jet does not go to President Josh Shapiro, AOC, Kamala Harris,
• 59:22
  Speaker 7: whoever else comes next. It goes to Donald Trump to
• 59:25
  Speaker 7: fly around on as he visits golf clubs around the world.
• 59:28
  Speaker 8: Fantastic. Trump force one.
• 59:31
  Speaker 7: Trump force one.
• 59:32
  Speaker 8: What a disaster. But what else? I mean, everything Trump
• 59:34
  Speaker 8: touches turns to shit. So here we are.
• 59:37
  Speaker 7: When we come back, North Carolina Senate candidate, former governor,
• 59:40
  Speaker 7: Roy Cooper.
• 59:48
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  Speaker 2: Joining me.
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  Speaker 7: Now is the Democratic nominee for one of the most
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 7: important Senate races this cycle, former North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 7: Governor Cooper, welcome back to Positive America.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: I'm glad to be with you, Dan.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 5: Thanks a lot.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 7: It's been a while, so it's great to have you
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 7: on here. Um, North Carolina, a state near and dear
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 7: to my heart, has been breaking Democratic hearts for a
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 7: long time. It's been since 2008, since a Democrat won
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 7: a Senate seat there. Talk to me about why you
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 7: believe 2026 is going to be different than all the
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 7: other cycles that have emotionally traumatized so many Democrats around
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 7: the country and in North Carolina, I assume.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: Well, Dan, I've been having to convince people that we
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: are having a tough race because people ask me what
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: my biggest fear is and that A lot of people
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: have put this race in the checkmark win column. And
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: you and I know the history of North Carolina. Just
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: because I have a lead in the polls doesn't mean
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: this race isn't going to be very close. We've seen
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: so many Democratic candidates have a lead, have a lead,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: have a lead until they don't. And we see Republican
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 3: money pouring into this state at the end. And we
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: see great Democratic candidates lose by a couple of points.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: And as you know, it's been 2008 since we won
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: a seat, almost 40 years. We've only had two Democrats
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 3: and both of them served one term. So this is
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 3: going to be a close race. I think this is
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: different because people are hurting now. I don't think I've
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: seen it like this because I've been out on my
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 3: Make Stuff Cost Less tour People are telling me that
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: there's just too much month at the end of the
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 3: money for them. Their paychecks just are not keeping up
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: with the cost of living. And they are frustrated. And
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: they recognize that Washington, D.C. is in chaos, that this
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: president and administration promised them that day one, the cost
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: of living would be on top of the list. And
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: not only has it not been, they've actively hurt people's
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 3: chances in that We've seen these chaotic tariffs add cost
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: to everything. We've seen this war in Iran increase costs.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: We've seen this one big, beautiful bill that ripped health
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: care away from people and given the tax breaks to
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: the billionaires.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: People are frustrated.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, I think they
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: know that I will be a senator who will put
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: the people first, not the billionaires. And we know that
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: my opponent, Michael Whatley, will do and say whatever this
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: president tells him to do and say. And we know
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day that a lot of
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: money is going to come into North Carolina. But we're
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: going to win.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 5: This race because we have to.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: I told my children the other day that my parents
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: left me a better country, that we had work to
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: do to leave them a better country. And I think
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: all of us need to look within us and say, hey,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: what can I do? to make sure that this country
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: is the kind of country we want to leave to
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: our kids and grandkids.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: And that's why I'm running for the Senate.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 7: You point out affordability is the number one issue in
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 7: North Carolina. It's the number one issue all around the country.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 7: It's frankly the number one issue in our politics for
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 7: basically since COVID, as inflation went up. As you mentioned,
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 7: you're on this tour of North Carolina. Tell me a
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 7: little about the tour. And can you give me a
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 7: handful of specific ideas that you would do to help
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 7: lower people's prices if elected?
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: Well, the tour, I've been meeting people across North Carolina.
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: We call it the Make Stuff Cost Less Tour.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 7: Very clear.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, we hear from Kawana, who's struggling to
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: pay for groceries. She's a teacher. We hear from Meredith,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 3: whose kid Vivi's on Medicaid. And Meredith's scared to death
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: that Washington is going to attack and take away Vivi's
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 3: health care. Pender's a farmer in rural North Carolina. The
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: tariffs are killing him. So in my policy proposals, you
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: can go to RoyCooper.com and read our proposals on what
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 3: we're proposing to do to make stuff cost less. You
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: can also help us out. You can also volunteer. We
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: need people to help us in this campaign. But first,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: you know, we've got to work with Republicans. And I
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: believe there will be some who will be ready to
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: work with us on taking back the legislative branch's constitutional
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: authority here. Checks and balances are critical. So taking them
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: back on trade and tariffs. We've got to roll back.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: these chaotic tariffs. And I think immediately that helps to
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: reduce the cost of living. We've got to restore the
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: health care cuts that have really wreaked havoc on people's
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: pocketbooks and people's lives, their health.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: We've got to make sure that we are.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: Investing in education across the board. I believe that when
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: you look at all.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: Of the proposals that we have made, like a.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: Child care tax credit, Because I'm hearing from people about
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: child care going through the roof and they're having to
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: make hard decisions about whether one parent's.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 5: Going to work.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: We just need a Washington focused on people and not
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: tax breaks for the corporations. And I think that we
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: can make a difference. Government that works can make a
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 3: difference for people and help them have a paycheck that
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: keeps up with the cost of living.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 7: There's been a lot of talk about groceries and gas,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 7: of course, and gas because of the Iran war, but
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 7: is utility prices. And one of the things driving up
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 7: utility prices is data centers. What would you do with
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 7: data centers to either help lower the cost of electricity,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 7: slow the build of these? Like, how are you thinking
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 7: about this sort of mad rush to build as many
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 7: data centers as possible?
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: It's part of my policy proposals is that they must
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: pay for their own energy. Other consumers should not have
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 3: to bear any cost from data centers. And we should
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: encourage them to create their own energy sources and connect
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: them to the grid. And I think many of them
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: are ready to step up and do that. Of course,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: communities have to have input as to whether these are
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: built there or not. But I think that is critical
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: because we now have a demand for power unlike anything
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: we've ever seen. And we have... Congress and a president
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: in Washington that has wiped away the gains that we
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: made in clean energy that would have helped add energy
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 3: to the grid. That's all been been wiped away during
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: the last couple of years. So we have a real
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: challenge on our hands.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 5: So I think they have to make sure that they
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 5: pay for their own.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 7: Your opponent, Michael Whatley, is not particularly well known to
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 7: a lot of people around the country. He's not sort
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 7: of one of these MAGA bad guys like Ken Paxton
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 7: or Hershel Walker or Dr. Oz in previous elections. I
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 7: understand there's some debate about his North Carolina roots and
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 7: that he failed to be able to name any members
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 7: of your NHL Stanley Cup championship team down there. But
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 7: what should voters either in North Carolina or around the
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 7: country want to help your campaign know about Michael Watley
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 7: and who he is and what he would do?
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: Well, first, he's been a Washington, D.C. insider for years.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: He was a big oil.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 5: And utility company lobbyist.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: He worked to be able to raise prices for oil
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: companies and raise utility rates for utility companies. He still
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: owns stock in those. And he served as chair of
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: the Republican National Committee, his co-chair, pushed there by President Trump.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: And we're seeing that he's able to line his own
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: pockets by advocating and encouraging the Iran.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 5: War, pushing this one big, beautiful bill.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: He owns pharma company stocks, and we know that those
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: have gone up because of this one big, beautiful bill.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: He was also chair of the North Carolina Republican Party
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: and recruited right-wing candidates like Mark Robinson, who's the self-described
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: Black Nazi in North Carolina, and stood beside and behind
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: Mark Robinson.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 5: He has lied about my record.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: You mentioned that he's been telling people that he grew
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: up in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. In actuality, he moved
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 3: to Blowing Rock from Michigan when he was 15 years old.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 3: And I don't mind people coming into North Carolina. You
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: don't have to have grown up in North Carolina. People
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: are full North Carolinians when they move here, but just
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: don't lie about it. But he's lied about my record
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: and particularly on crime. But then you look at his
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: record on crime. He appointed a convicted child sex predator
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 3: who served time in prison to a prominent position in
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 3: the North Carolina Republican Party and stood by him and
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 3: reappointed him, even though the party debated this. And recently,
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 3: the party has come in and passed a resolution saying
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: we aren't going to have sex predators appointed to positions
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: of prominence anymore. He's also very recently stood by Trump's
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 3: pardon of all of these J6 insurrectionists. including those who
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 3: assaulted police officers, and including those who went on to
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 3: commit other crimes, some against children for child sex crimes.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: That's the kind of record that Michael Whiteley has. And
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: as I say, he will do and say whatever this
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: president tells him to do and say. On the other hand,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: I will be a strong independent senator for North Carolina.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: I will put the people first. I will try to
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: work with this president when I can. I did my
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 3: first four years as governor. He was president at the
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 3: same time. I tried to work with him. We had
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 3: to go through COVID and other things. But I will
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: stand up to him when I need to. And there
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: needs to be a lot of standing up to him
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 3: right now in Washington. I think the people of North
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 3: Carolina are going to want that at the end of
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: the day.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 7: You mentioned the attacks on your record on crime. This
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 7: is in a bunch of their ads. This seems to
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 7: be their main strategy for trying to defeat you is
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 7: to paint you as weak on crime, weak on immigration.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 7: They are specifically focusing on some early releases that you
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 7: granted in your time as governor. What is your response
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 7: to those attacks? What's the true story here?
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 3: Well, first, those stories, there are many lies being told
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: in what they've done.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: And they've had fact.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 3: Checks that have shown that they just simply are not
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: telling the truth.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 5: I'm the only.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 3: Person in this race who's actually prosecuted violent criminals and
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: worked to keep them behind bars while Michael Whatley has
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: appointed a child sex predator to a prominent position in
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: the North Carolina Republican Party. That's the difference between us
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 3: on crime. People know my record as attorney general. They
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: know that as governor, I signed tougher bail laws. They know, too,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: that I believe in working to prevent crime by investing
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: in early childhood education and in our public schools and
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: in health care and in our communities. I think that's critical.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: But they believe this is a soft spot.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 5: It is not.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: And I think the people of North Carolina will hear
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: that at the end of the day.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 7: You know, immigration and crime are sort of tied together
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 7: in Republican rhetoric these days. One of the tasks for
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 7: a Democratic Senate will be, or just new Democratic senators,
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 7: is going to be trying to find ways to rein
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 7: in what is happening with ICE and what the Trump
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 7: administration is doing with ICE. We just had another person
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 7: killed by ICE recently. How are you thinking about what you,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 7: if you were elected Senate, what you would do with ICE?
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 7: How would you reform it, restrain it? What are you thinking?
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: Well, first, we need secure borders in this country, and
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: we should deport violent criminals. And this organization should be
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: working to try and do that. But we also don't
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: need what is happening now with people being picked up
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: just because of what they look like, often American citizens
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: being put in danger, shot on the street. It seems
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: to me reasonable that officers who work with ICE should
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: have the same requirements that state, local, and federal law
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: enforcement officers should have. And I think that that is
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: something that we need to do, make sure that they
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 3: have those same requirements.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 7: As we mentioned, your opponent's the former chair of the RNC.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 7: A couple of weeks ago, the Supreme Court had a
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 7: ruling which now will allow the party committees like the
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 7: RNC and the DNC to spend unlimited funds on behalf
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 7: on races like yours. How does that ruling affect your
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 7: race with your opponent being the former chair of the
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 7: organization that can now spend unlimited money?
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: This is the worst campaign finance Supreme Court decision since
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: Citizens United. It allows virtually unlimited spending from these joint
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: committees when a candidate and a political party or like
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: the Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee come together. They don't have
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 3: any limits as they used to have. This puts more
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: power in the hands of the very wealthy, of the billionaires,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: of the corporations. And I think you're going to see
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: a significant amount of money flowing into races all across
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 3: the country using this new device. It may affect our
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 3: race even more than others, being that Wiley has been
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: recently the chair of the Republican National Committee. He knows
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 3: all the people there. He certainly has been talking about
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: the fact that they're going to use this new tool.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: We all need to come together and get a grip
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 3: on campaign finance in this country. We have to find
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: a way to stop this madness. It's too much money
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: in politics. I'll be first in line to find a
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 3: way to overturn Citizens United. But until then, we cannot
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 3: unilaterally disarm. This takes power away from small donors. And
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 3: I hope small donors will stand up and say, we're
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 3: not going to let this happen. We're going to give
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: these candidates even more. RoyCooper.com is a great place to
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: go and to do that because we need to have
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 3: a strong voice for everyday people. And this new decision
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 3: just allows more money into the system. It leads to
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: more corruption. We see open corruption in Washington right now.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: In fact, my opponent, as I mentioned, owns individual stock.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: When I ran for governor, I sold all of my
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 3: individual stock. I have widely held mutual funds. I'm doing
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 3: that during the campaign. I will do that as a
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: United States senator, regardless of what the law is, but
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: I will work to pass a law that prohibits members
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: of Congress and executive, high executive officials from trading individual stocks.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: I'll support a law that stops allowing people to be
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 3: lobbyists after they serve in Congress. We need to get
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: people to trust the federal government again. And right now,
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: people just don't. So we have to elect people not
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: only who will fight to change laws. We're seeing that
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: we have a lot of people who want to change
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: the laws, but nothing ever happens in Washington on this,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 3: but who will set examples. And that's what I want
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: to do when I get there. And the way this
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: money is going to come in, I hope it won't
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: affect these elections because I hope that people will step
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: up and help these candidates. We've got to take back
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: the House. We've got to take back the Senate. We've
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: got to make sure that we come back to the
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: Constitution that the framers intended, where we have true checks
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: and balances, because right now we have leaders in Congress
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: who simply will not stand up to the president. And
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 3: you need to do that regardless of party. You need
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 3: to do that. And the branches need to push against
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: each other in order to make this great republic work.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 7: I'll say this for you to make it easier. But
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 7: the ruling means that the RNC has a lot more
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 7: money than the DNC. The NRC has more money than
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 7: the DSCC. The Republicans have more money than the Democrats.
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 7: if we are going to, the only way we're going
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 7: to stay competitive in these races is for people to
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 7: go to websites like RoyCooper.com and push back. Because it's not,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 7: we can win with grassroots donations. We are not going
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 7: to match them billionaire for billionaire in this race. So
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 7: I just want to lay that out there. I would
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 7: do that for you to make that pitch easier for you.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: You said it better than I. And I think you're
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: right about that because we can't catch up. The DNC
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 3: just simply can't catch up before November. So we're going
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 3: to have to have help from everyday people out there.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 7: The Democratic Party is in a bit of transition um,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 7: these days. And we have, uh, democratic socialists winning in
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 7: New York city and Colorado. We have, uh, progressive anti-establishment
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 7: candidates winning here and there. We also have Roy Cooper's
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 7: running in North Carolina and Sherrod Brown's running in Ohio.
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 7: Is there a big, a tent big enough for the
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 7: party these days? Like how, how are you thinking about
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 7: what's going on in the party? You know, you're a
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 7: two-term governor establishment figure. There's this anti-establishment, um, sort of
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 7: fervor going on? Like, how are you navigating all of this?
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: Well, I understand why people are frustrated because government often
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: hasn't worked.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 5: At the federal level and people are mad. And so
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 5: I get it.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 3: People are paying too much. Things are costing too much
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: out there and they're frustrated. They don't have health care.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: They can't afford a place to live. My goodness, they
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 3: had one bipartisan thing that they did, the housing bill
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 3: that just got flipped on his head. That's just so,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: so frustrating. But look, I can just tell you what
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: we've done here. I was a Democratic governor for eight years.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: I had a Republican legislature for eight years. And yes,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: I vetoed a lot of bad legislation and we fought
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 3: over a lot of things. But I found ways to
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 3: work with them on recruiting good paying jobs to our
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: state to getting paid parental leave, to passing a law
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: to get our power sector to carbon zero by 2050.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: And finally, got a Republican legislature in a Southern state
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 3: to expand Medicaid, which has made a real difference. And
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: we did that by getting their constituents in these red
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 3: rural counties to lobby them for it. Because when I
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 3: would use my contacts with sheriffs in some of these
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: counties when I served as attorney general. And many of
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: them would complain to me that essentially that a lot
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 3: of people in their jail were struggling and needed health care.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: And so they understood that Medicaid expansion would bring more
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: help to their county with medical services and would help
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: keep their rural hospitals open. And when you have a
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 3: tough on crime Republican sheriff walk in the halls lobbying
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: for Medicaid expansion, It's very effective. And so we were
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 3: able to work together on a common goal to get healthcare.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: And these red rural counties have benefited really more than
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: anybody else here. 730,000 people and counting now have healthcare
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 3: in North Carolina.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: And there are.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: Ways to work together. We saw it on the housing
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: bill in Washington. We've got to have more people who
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: are willing to sit down at the table, even if
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 3: they have disparate opinions, When you look at goals, often
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 3: our goals are shared, even if we are on opposite
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: ends politically. We want a good education for our kids.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: We want a good paying job. We want clean air
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: and water. We want quality health care. We all want
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: the same things. And we have to be willing to
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: sit down at the table and find ways forwards, find
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: a way to achieve consensus. I did that as governor recently.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 3: time and time again, I want to do that in Washington.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 3: And I believe that Washington could use a dose of
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: North Carolina common sense. I'm ready to come and try
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: and provide that, not only from a governor, attorney general perspective,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: a state legislator perspective, but I practiced law for 18
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 3: years and was a managing partner of my small firm
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 3: for a while.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 5: I had to make a payroll.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 3: So I have a lot of background that I think
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: I can use in helping to shape legislation, walking across
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 3: the aisle, trying to find a way forward because people
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 3: just want government to work.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 5: And right now it's not.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 7: Governor, I think it's a great place to end it.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 7: Governor Cooper, thank you so much for joining us and
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 7: we'll talk to you again soon.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 3: Thanks, Dan. Appreciate it.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 9: All right.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 7: That's our show for today. Thanks to Roy Cooper.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 8: It was so fast. It was so fast. Sorry to
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 8: cut you off.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 7: It's been an hour. We've been doing this for an hour.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 8: No, I mean, I just meant like.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 4: It was just when you're having this much fun.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 8: Emotional highs and lows.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 7: It was a confessional. Yes, and it was important because
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 7: it was our last Grand Platinum conversation ever.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 3: Oh my God.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 8: Mark that in your calendars, people.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 7: I know, seriously.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 7: That's our show for today. Thanks to Roy Cooper for
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 7: coming on. Tommy will be back in the feed on
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 7: Sunday with a conversation with Gary Lineker. host of The
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 7: Rest Is Football and legendary England striker to talk about
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 7: the World Cup and the politics of soccer. Talk to
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 7: everyone soon. Bye, everyone.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our show
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: Farah Safari, with Reed Cherlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill.
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Hethcote, Charlotte Landis, David Tolles,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Sengel. Our staff is
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.