Latest / The Charity Changemakers Podcast / Season 3 | E14 David Craig on why becoming a trustee might be the smartest career move you'll make

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Season 3 | E14 David Craig on why becoming a trustee might be the smartest career move you'll make · The Charity Changemakers Podcast

• David Craig: you're in this sector and you're you're wanting to advance your career, or irrespective of the role that you play in the sector, there there's a lot to be gained by giving time back and and benefiting it in a professional capacity. So Adam Stacey: Mm-hmm. David Craig: I I've got some colleagues I'm talking to my own organisations just now that I think that might well be a good step for them as they go through the good so I can able to share some of my experiences. And again, very fortunate you know my employer gave us some of that time off to Adam Stacey: Yes. David Craig: you know to commit to the time that was necessary. But I also chose to commit that time. So it was a bit of a blended that I'll take days off to attend a board meeting. you know, and the other half was given to me by my employer. So there was a a a real sense of commitment in your own professional development and I think, you know, personally if you're in that space, I think you should be, you know, at least thinking about committing some time if it's possible to do so. Adam Stacey: Absolutely delighted to welcome David onto the Charity Changemakers podcast today. David, thank you so much for joining us. David Craig: Delighted, Adam. Thanks for inviting us. Adam Stacey: Yeah, no, it's great to have you on the show and yeah, really pleased to have you here. I always like to give the guests the opportunity just to give us a minute or two to introduce who you are and what you do. David Craig: Yes I I'm David Craig. I'm chief executive of Scotland's charity Air Ambulance. and I've been in post in my current role for about eleven years now. Adam Stacey: That's great, I'm looking forward to hearing more about that, more about the organisation and also your career journey into the sector. But with all of our guests, we've got these quickfire questions that we'd to fire at you, the opportunity for the listener to get to know you a little bit better. So before we get into all of the big stuff, what does a good day off or weekend look like for you? David Craig: well be probably a few things. it will certainly involve some form of sport and that's watching, mostly. be it football. my sons up until recently both played football. we go to watch some football matches. and I play a bit of golf pretty badly at this moment in time. that gets us out in a little bit of of walking and do enjoy walking. I tend to go out for a bit of a walk before maybe I start the day as well. I think that's been pretty beneficial. something post COVID that you've just kind of been out and doing, good for the health and well being. and certainly runs around family and socializing and and seeing friends. So maybe the boring answer, but it's it's a fairly typical weekend for me. Adam Stacey: Yeah, no, not boring at all. And I think I probably reflected on this on a couple of the podcasts before, actually a lot of what we hear from people about this downtime is about getting outside and doing things. David Craig: Yeah. Adam Stacey: So yeah, it's great to hear this. But whether that's watching or partaking. yeah, although being a football fan, I don't always come away from watching my football team feeling any more relaxed. So yes. David Craig: Well, but there's always the highs and lows of watching any football team, whether you're at the top of the league or the bottom of the league, there's always some enjoyment that you tend to find on a on Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: a Saturday afternoon. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, as a Sheffield United fan, very rarely get to the top of the league. yes, yeah. David Craig: I feel your pain already. Adam Stacey: Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, this is I've just had a long drive down to Swansea to watch a very dull nil nil at the weekend. yeah, David Craig: Right. Yeah. Adam Stacey: but that's good. David, what's something that brings a, you know, something small that brings you a disproportionate amount of joy? David Craig: Yeah, well do you know, again, I mean I I've I've again I've it's predominantly around my my two boys. that are a little bit older now, but I just I'm a I'm a football enthusiast, you know, I love watching just about every kind of game. But when your your children are participating and you know, they're playing and they're playing well, there's just little things like that that, you know, you're always kinda wincing about the tackles that they kinda go into as well at the same time, but as a parent but You know, just generally just being around you know, my grown up boys now and as I say, thing things like that or or or holding a putt at golf that I didn't think I was gonna make, you know, the the little things that bring me joy at this moment in time. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's brilliant. That's great. tell me what's one thing that people assume about your job that just isn't true? David Craig: well, I suppose in the in the role of being a a chief executive and I'm I'm sure maybe your other listeners and other people have been on your podcast will will testify, you know, there's maybe a misconception that as a as a CEO you're you're making sometimes big decisions almost daily or difficult decisions almost daily. And maybe maybe that might well be true in in some cases. but you know, for for me it's just been around I I've got a strong leadership team. and some of it's not around about making the big ans the big decisions, it's probably about asking some of the right questions that might lead up to the decision making. so yeah, I mean it's I'm fortunate surrounded by a lot of kind of good people, highly skilled people, and but within a chief executive, it can also be a quite lonely place. I mean, I I need to say that as well, because when you're when you're at the top of that organogram. looking into a board and feeding into a board. There is a lot of expectation and on an onus on a chief executive and a leader and to make the right decisions and the right calls. But you I try and, you know, take moments to to reflect and gather as as much information, you know, seek alternative views before coming to some consensus of my own. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. I suspect as we move through the conversation and explore a little bit of your career journey, I guess we'll get into a bit of that. Thinking about the longevity that you've had in role in organization, which I think, you know, it brings extra opportunity and guess challenge as well on the way that we may well explore, but not always what we see across the sector. You know, sometimes you see people moving positions fairly regularly. So it'd be great to explore that in a bit more. bit more detail as well as we go. But we always start these conversations really by asking how people ended up in the charity sector. It's very rare that anyone ever turns around and tells me that they had their career mapped out and the charity sector was top of the list for them and that's where they wanted to go. So I'm always interested as to how people found their way into the sector. David Craig: Yeah, well I I I fell into the sector if if if I'm being honest. I think when I went to life school, I either wanted to be an accountant, work in a bank, or wor join the police. I nearly joined the latter and decided that probably wasn't for me at the at the time, going back to maybe in my early twenties. But no, I I I I I literally did fall into the sector and my early career post leaving school at you know, around sixteen, was to go into at the time it was called a youth training scheme. So they put children of my age onto a training scheme who perhaps didn't really know what they wanted to do and and as I say, going back to those two or three suggestions, it became quite pretty clear that that's not what I wanted to do. I certainly didn't want to get my hands dirty and being a labourer either. That's I mean be clear about that. I I tried that through my father's work at the time and that certainly wasn't for me. So it was certainly in the office environment and what shape her capacity was really unknown at the time. and then you go through these training schemes and they put on a placement and you get to experience that office environment, whatever you want to do. I was very generally just generally financially minded in anyway. my my kind of brain worked that way at the time. So I ended up working in a in actually an accounts department, but it was processing bits and pieces and stuff. But it was a it was a large hospitality company. and I ended up working there for for nearly a decade. But I went through numerous roles and we moved department to department. But for about nearly eight and a half, nine of those years, I worked in the public relations department of that and hospitality company. And that was the introduction the introduction to me to the charity sector because like most corporate companies and even now, you would have corporate partnerships and charities of the year. I'm working in the the public relations department, it was myself and couple of our colleagues to to really kind of promote that organization, that charity internally and obviously with your customers and your stakeholders. and it really just started to develop into me organising some fundraising events within the office environment. whether I mean whether it be a day or a golf day or whatever it it could be. And it just it went on for a number of years and we went through maybe about half a dozen charity partnerships, generally for twelve months. Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: one lasted about eighteen months. and you know, of course you becoming slightly older and a little bit more mature at that point as well. And I was into my maybe my early twenties at the time and it was a it was a national it was a national leukemia charity. and spent I say spent a lot of time and and I and I just enjoyed organising and running events and participating and Adam Stacey: Yeah, right. David Craig: maybe outgoing nature being in PR you're quite talkative and engaging with people. Adam Stacey: Thank David Craig: and it just started to really morph into that and I got very you know a good close professional working relationship with senior people in within the charity at the time. And they were looking to expand what they were doing in Scotland. It was a very you know London based HQ charity. Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: I'm Charity was Dandary Nolan, Trust as it's now called, Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: and they were certainly developing things within Scotland. And they asked us, would I like to come and sort relocate part of the office where it was at the time and and in their words do a little bit of fundraising. and that's and my job was actually the hospitality company offer was being taken over, and my job was coming getting made relocated to Watford, Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: and I was born in Glasgow, I I went down to Watford for two days and I much preferred Glasgow. So I I don't know what it Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: says about Watford. but I I Adam Stacey: Thank David Craig: that was just something it it just happened to be at the right time for me. And Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: I I moved into I literally moved out of the corporate sector into the not for profit sector and I know as my the chief executive team started to do a little bit of fundraising with no really any kind of professional fundraising background at all. just a willingness and I guess an attitude to to to engage with people, to talk to people and organise a number of events for them. Adam Stacey: Yeah, and from a standing start by the set from the sounds of it, you know, in setting something up solo, you know, that relocation into Scotland, what did that kind of like? David Craig: Yeah. Well Yeah, well th the sure. Well I mean the the charity was the charity was w it was established in Scotland. It was, you know, you're moving part of the regional office down and but it was a s small in numbers off the top med. I mean there was maybe I don't know, maybe half a dozen people potentially at the time, maybe a little bit more. It was a small charity at that time. But it certainly grew very quickly, and the team kinda grew with it. And and I say I was it was effectively you know, my manager at the time, sadly he's no longer with us. You know, she gave us a lot of encouragement and and a lot of I guess empowerment to kind of do what you wanted to to do obviously within a some kind of guidance and stuff like that. So you were f you were free to do a lot of that. so I spent a good number of years learning that up joined the Charters Institute of Fundraising from a kind of professional development capacity as well. Went on lots of training courses. employer supported through a management development programme as as you kind of the career kind of progressed and stuff like that. so I as I say I fell into it but I was very fortunate. I was given a lot of opportunity working with some brilliant people and having a great manager who trusted you, who believed in you and who was keen to see you develop as well. And and I think that worked that worked positively both ways for us. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a common story in the sector. think where people see people who've got the right attitude, the aptitude, the ability to get on and want to deliver, the sector can actually give opportunities that many sectors just don't because there's a real breadth, isn't there of, I guess that all hands on deck, there's lots of different things, lots of different moving parts, lots of opportunity for people. David Craig: Yeah, you get so much opportunity just understanding about other things. You know, whilst your role was your role, there there was definitely crossovers at the time. So again I'm going into the late nineties, early two thousands at the time. and you know, there was just so much opportunity that you you could just, you know, lend your hand to. You might not have always got anything everything right what you did, but you were you were showing the willingness to to participate, to learn, to try something new. And then working with, you know, much more experienced people than I was at the time. You're learning, you're learning as you go along. Adam Stacey: Yeah. And was that role then, was it sort of solely fundraising or was it a mix of things within the charity? David Craig: No, it was it was a lot of kind of admin but it was also but you know fundraising. So I was doing, you know, a n a number of say n a number of events and and then oversaw their their kind of their their their overseas challenge events which you know became a bit of a boom in the early two thousands and again fortunate, you know, participated in them was the lead rep from the charity or I did them as a supporter raising money at the same time as well. So it was y y you got exposed to a lot. you know, you got exposed Adam Stacey: Yes. David Craig: to there was definitely structure there, but again, just going back to those, you know, heady days, I say, you know, twenty odd years ago, you were you were given a good bit of rope to do and and to learn and occasionally it would probably get yanked in once or twice as well when you maybe didn't do so well. But you know, we can maybe talk about that at some point as well. Adam Stacey: Yeah, that's right indeed. And those AOC events, think, when you're leading them or working them, they're stressful times, having done a few. David Craig: Yeah, they're I they were great. We also clearly we know we worked with a w with a tour company, but you know, your role was to, you know, to increase participation in them, support the participants, shore them as as best as you possibly can. You know, they're raising significant sons, you know, three, four, five thousand pounds. and they they were great to participate. I I I did three of them in my time. you know, climbed Kilimanjaro, cycled south to north in Vietnam, cycled the Garden route in South Africa, you know, three consecutive years. And and they're also great for for your own personal development, you know, taking you out of a comfort zone into a country that, you know, it's not your holidays, you know, and just seeing a completely different environment. you know, working going to visit a you know, a very schools project in, you know, in Nairobi and Kenya and seeing how other people and children in particular try and have their education and sometimes it's just a reflection for you as a as a person as to fortunate in certain in in the UK and Scotland where I'm based that you know you have good education and you should be very thankful for some of that and then you see the other side of it. and it's just to polar opposites. So th there was a real appreciation for when you're in this sector, irrespective of the sector or the the environment you're working in, is seeing the beneficiaries of some of these and you can say that it was a charity project that we we spent the day in and a school education project and you know Their eyes just lit up when you're bringing in something that we take for granted. It might just be pens and pencils or cranes or whatever it is. It's just that the l the the little access that they have to them certainly gives you a value for for what you have in your own role. So that that gives you a a good reflection piece as well as you're as you're working for the charities that that work for at time. but it was a great time. It was a it was a great time to to start my fledging career in the in the sector. Adam Stacey: Yeah. And what came next? did that lead on to for you? David Craig: Yeah, well I I remained I I then kind of actually went out the sector for a little bit and worked with a a fundraising recruitment consultancy. so again still brought the people element into that, which again in in your line of work now, you know, Adam as well, you know, you know, recruiting highly skilled and motivated people as well. you know, and being a manager when I left the Euro Nancy Known Trust, I was you know was a de effectively deputy head of regional fundraising for look Scotland and Northern Ireland in the north of England. So you you had a lot of experience in recruiting people as well. And and there was a bit of kind of consultancy. So it was actually applying what you're doing with the charity and making it a little bit broader and and maybe working with different types of charities as well. in that space. And I I did that for I did that for a couple of years. and it was definitely there was definitely a calling to I can joke about it now, you know, move out of the you know the the the dark zone and back into the into the real world of actually doing all of that. But so that that that took me back and it actually took me closer back to to to home. I was born in in Claybank, which is about maybe twenty miles, maybe ten miles actually just northwest of Glasgow. and the areas western Bartonshire is quite a deprived area. and you know family still live there. So I grew up there, still got friends in that place. but it was a very small regional charity, who were looking for a head of fundraising and called the Tulliken Trust. and they predominantly worked in Western Barntshire, which is you know, maybe at the time maybe like the third most deprived area in all of Scotland. And for somebody who lived there and who was brought up there, again, reflective pieces he hadn't really known how difficult some of the challenges he had is as as a young person kind of growing up. So that was a charity I worked very closely with disengaged young people, people who dropped out of school at S one and S two, who were not in education, employment or training. and so, you know, going back to the start of this conversation, I was quite fortunate where my career took me to, but I'm very mindful of that that that's not always the case. So a brilliant, brilliant ch brilliant charity, you know, founding led charity still going very, very strong to this day. and it gave us you know a more senior role from the one that I had previously been at. and it kind of made me work started working much more closely with you know the board at the time. And so I reported to the manager, general manager at the place and very what very closely I've started with getting more involvement with trustees and how charities are governed and how they are run. So Adam Stacey: Yes. David Craig: you're taking yourself out of delivering information, managing or managing people to think of it from a more strategic point of view. And just looking Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: at what does their lenses look like into the charity and the the scrutiny and the challenge as well as the support that they give you as you kind of go in. So that that was that was quite a I I guess a pivotal moment. There were there was there was a there was another significant change which probably helped shape my career rather than I should mention it. And it was from a personal capacity. So I mentioned about my sons. My my oldest son's now twenty-one, but he was born ten weeks premature. so he was in neonatal unit Adam Stacey: Right. David Craig: and you know you just you just couldn't really understand what was going on at the time. And like a new parent, you're pacing the wards wondering what's happening. and there was just there was also a realization that the lack of health and neonatal facilities in Scotland at the time when Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: you know, living in the central belt of Scotland and I was living nearer Edinburgh at that Adam Stacey: . David Craig: time, whereby you didn't either have the specialist and also the special equipment or indeed the bed to, Adam Stacey: Yes, right. David Craig: you know, to deal with, you know, and that's again no reflection on how much incredible care we had at the time. But you know, we ended up visiting four hospitals, four different hospitals in five days simply because of capacity, lack of, Adam Stacey: It's fresh. David Craig: and that's just not acceptable. I mean you know, when you're as a new parent you're going through some of most challenging times as a new parent and you're still trying to contemplate how did my son born was born ten weeks early and spent time in intensive care. So it was when I I was I was in that that space and I was pacing pacing the wards that I I came across a a parent information guide by the charity Bliss, charity for newborn babies. Adam Stacey: Right, yeah. David Craig: And by pure coincidence I think I think maybe three to six months later, they were one they were recruiting for trustees to join the board and particularly those who've got direct experience or Adam Stacey: Yes, right. David Craig: somebody who was based in Scotland. Well I thought, well I'd take two of those boxes. Adam Stacey: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. David Craig: and so that I started to think about not about kind of giving back, but there was a element of that and trying to understand it and it was also from a professional perspective. perspective so going to Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: how does a head of fundraising engage with the board but actually I would quite like to be the other side of the table and Adam Stacey: and David Craig: and wanted to become a trustee of a charity and it Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: gave us greater exposure and an understanding which to this day, irrespective of how the personal circumstances came about, was a was a significant moment in in my career as it kind of helped Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: to develop me to become a chief executive. Adam Stacey: Yeah, I don't wonder how that, I mean, if you don't mind me asking how that sort of experience, I guess, kind of shaped you and how you understand the sector from being on that, on that side of, you know, reaching out and I guess, you know, wanting to be on the side as a beneficiary, you know, be supported and have it whether that's changed, I guess, you will, yeah, the way that you experience or see the sector. David Craig: Yeah, I I see it was it was a slightly surreal moment. just because I was I was thinking it in both both cases. I I was I was I'll use the word angry. I I was angry at the point that there was a lack of facilities. And, you know, you think you can do something about it and the reality is, you know, I can't, but being part of a bigger organization we might be able to affect change. And and one of the key elements of of joining Bliss is you know, went down, had interviewed was they were keen they were keen to expand their presence in Scotland. In a case that was music to my ears. 'cause you know, whilst they might think you're you're UK by name, actually on the ground, unless you've got some presence and you can be doing some of that in in Scotland. So that was a that was an attractive for me to maybe that was the giving back, maybe not I didn't think of it at the time. but it was myself and a couple of our trustees who took upon ourselves, you know, led by the chief executive, to set up Bliss Scotland as a national charity. And, you know, and we did that, we we set that up, and one of the elements of that was to effectively have, you know, Bliss nurses in these hospitals who can provide that emotional support to parents that what didn't exist at the time, to create you know increase the awareness of the charity. and I remember, you know, we we ended up launching it at in in Holliday at the Scottish Parliament with you know the health secretary at the time, which subsequently killed TPM wanted to be the first minister of. And and here's me carrying my two year old son in pictures, you know, launching this I'll say Scottish charity. so there was there was a proud moment, there was a proud moment of being able to be part of a small team that that was able to do that. and again just you know kind of ramp up some of the fundraising and and the growth of the charity as well. And sublimally what it did in the background was just professionally just let me think about how charities are managed and how they're governed and how we we deal with a lot of you know difficult and complex situations. so that was that was I say an unintended element of it all, but it was right time, right place for me personally. despite of the you know, the personal nature of how I actually fell into it. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. And like you say, absolutely. I feel that, you know, that pride for what you, you know, what you achieved in a very short space of time. if you're talking about something launched within a couple of years, yeah. David Craig: Yeah. Well I was there it was I was there for five years. so I think it was t supposed to be two terms of office, like maybe two to four years of terms. within the first year of my joining, I think one of the trustees stood down who previously chaired like the fundraising subcommittee of so they then asked me as you know, would I would I take that responsibility on. So again, hadn't planned that. It it kind of was a it just landed in some in the right time. So it was good because I was then chairing this committee with another group of trustees rather than being the trustee. So you're you're getting some leadership qualities in there as well. and it was great, you know, you know, a brilliant charity is absolutely brilliant charity as well. St still going so strong as well. And but yeah that was over a maybe a two to three year period but I I did five years and and that then led me on to becoming a chief executive because I left Talekin as head of fundraising and I was recruited for my first CEO role Adam Stacey: Yes. David Craig: at the age of thirty eight. Adam Stacey: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think which is which is incredible, isn't it? And I think that trustee exposure is always really powerful, I think, in people's journey, that the exposure that it it gives and that ability to, yeah, work at that strategic level, that can then then help make that next move from, well, do you ever go from being a firm? don't think you go from being a fundraiser when you become a chief executive, it's still still in the DNA. David Craig: No well no, that's I again I you know I I I I I am a f a chief executive who's who started off as a fundraiser. Whenever we get new trustees on board or everybody who's you're onboarding anybody into the charity, to this day I say I'm a fundraiser 'cause that's how I I started I'm a professional fundraiser. I have the qualifications to be, you know, professional fundraiser. It's a very you know, it's a skill and it's it's it's an art. I suppose to do that. so that that that really gave us some again some fundamental fundamental learnings. Again, just just just at the right at the right time for us. I knew a once you've been and I would strongly encourage again people who are listening to this, if you know you're in this sector and you're you're wanting to advance your career, or irrespective of the role that you play in the sector, there there's a lot to be gained by giving time back and and benefiting it in a professional capacity. So Adam Stacey: Mm-hmm. David Craig: I I've got some colleagues I'm talking to my own organisations just now that I think that might well be a good step for them as they go through the good so I can able to share some of my experiences. And again, very fortunate you know my employer gave us some of that time off to Adam Stacey: Yes. David Craig: you know to commit to the time that was necessary. But I also chose to commit that time. So it was a bit of a blended that I'll take days off to attend a board meeting. you know, and the other half was given to me by my employer. So there was a a a real sense of commitment in your own professional development and I think, you know, personally if you're in that space, I think you should be, you know, at least thinking about committing some time if it's possible to do so. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think you're absolutely right. I the power of a trusteeship or being able to volunteer in an organization and quite often I encourage people to do it in a sector that's completely different to the one that they're working in David Craig: Yeah. Adam Stacey: as well. Just to get that breadth of experience and see, know, bring those skills and experiences from the places that you are, whether that's in the charity sector or outside, know, bring that difference perspective as well and fresh thinking and also the learning, like you say, it's the learning that you get the other way as well, which is just invaluable. David Craig: Hugely invaluable. Yeah. And you you it's just a the blend of the people who come from different backgrounds and different walks of life. So you just get different perspectives, you know, whether it be lawyers, accountants, teachers, whatever it may well be, you just get a different perspective and and you're, you know, collectively you're all there to advance that charity as best you can, utilising your skills and knowledge in a in a cohesive, collaborative way that helps drive that forward. Adam Stacey: So within that first chief executive role, is that what then led on to the role that you're in now? David Craig: Yes, so I'll I'll I'll need to go back as part of this development. So when I say I moved into consultancy, the the the gentleman that I worked with was a chap called Bruce Tate, who's very well known in in Scotland in the Adam Stacey: Yeah, that's true. David Craig: sector and and through the Charters Institute's fellow of the Charters Institute of Fundraising as well. and I learned a lot from him, just you know, just generally, just in my career and it just so happened he was actually on a board of a charity that was looking for their first chief executive. so I got a fo he phoned me up and you know asked us would I would I like to have a chat with the with the chairman at the time. And again I'll go back at the start of the conversation about my my love of sport and football. So this was a football foundation. This Adam Stacey: Yep, right. David Craig: was Falkirk Football Community Foundation, so the Charles of Alarm of a professional football club in Scotland and it's a great football club as well, I have to say. I didn't go in there as a supporter, I left there as a supporter. so I you know I met the chair of the the foundation, wonderful chap called Dennis Caravan, who's a former member of Parliament and the chair of the football club as well. And it used i they were just taking it out of the football club and setting up as a community arm for charitable status and purpose. And they really wanted somebody to make that transition, make it happen, establish the charity and raise money and and again. you know, using the power of football for the power for good and it very worked in those some similar those same deprived circumstances that I alluded to in my career with the Tulligan, working a lot with young people, you know, lone parents, single parents, and you know, just using the football club as it because it has such a power and it can act as a real catalyst for change. You know, we had a whole number of S ones and S2 who might have had a a 30% attendance record at school. But when they came to Football club and they put on a strip and we did we had a an accredited Scottish an SQA centre at the time, Scottish Qualification Centre. you know, their attendance was at 90% in comparison. Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: So you you you knew that what you were doing was was working, and again, brilliant team that we that I worked with there as well. And you know, again dur during my my my tenure there, we you know, out of the know the forty two professional football clubs that are in Scotland and maybe more now with different Leagues and division, you know, we we were awarded the best professional football club in the community for the work that we did in the community. Adam Stacey: Yeah. All right. Yes. David Craig: So again, brilliant team leading you know that charge, again, just part of part of that team. So that was you know a very proud moment. You know, you're standing up and getting award with two Scottish football legends and Kenny Douglas and Gordon Stracken, you know, people that you watch from the sidelines or whatever it may well be. so that was you know again, it I had my passion for. For football in particular, my passion for the sector, it blended them together and the outcome that was for people who were in, you know, some trying circumstances through their own, whatever whatever personal circumstances they got to at the time. so I yeah, I was there for four four years, three and a half, four years. Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: when I was approached by the agency who were leading the recruitment for the new chief executive of Scotland's charity Air Ambulance. And eleven Adam Stacey: Yes, yeah. David Craig: years later I'm still here. Adam Stacey: Still there, yes, yeah, absolutely. It seems to a bit of a theme of being involved in, I guess, whether it's newness or renewal or building something up. So talk to me about Scotland's charity air ambulance, about what that looked like, I guess, when you were being approached about the role. David Craig: Yeah, well again it it came out of left field. I was I was not not expecting or planning to leave the role that I had at the at the foundation. It was like a great charity. but you're you've just hit the nail on the head there, Adam. I mean when I joined Scotland's charity Rambers they'd only launched and formed two years before I had joined. So they you know they they launched in in May twenty thirteen, I joined in September twenty fifteen. And again, even even being in the sector for quite some time, I hadn't really known or heard much about them until the agency approaches and you go through you know, you go through the the process, the informal process to begin with, just getting an understanding. You're doing your own background diligence desktop research on on the charity. And I and what I saw, you know, it was again, everyone knows what an air ambulance does, you know. But I saw the the opportunity within Scotland to to to grow, to establish it first and foremost, to grow and develop the charity, and make it a completely indispensable emergency services charity and a healthy health and medical oriented one in Scotland. saving people's lives. I mean there is nothing much more immediate When in someone's most dreadful circumstances, you have an air ambulance skilled with brilliant pilots and brilliant clinicians and the paramedics, and you're bringing all that care to the scene of somebody's worst day. And the intervention that they have tends to be more of a positive outcome, clearly. Sadly, sometimes that doesn't happen. Adam Stacey: Yeah, sure. David Craig: But you get an immediate understanding of the impact. Adam Stacey: Mm-hmm. David Craig: that that charity can have immediately in some on some person's life. You know, for other things, for the ones that I've mentioned, it can be, you know, a longer time for people to to develop and stuff like that, but all still in a very positive way. But that that that's immediate. so whenever you know the bell goes and the phone rings, you know the tone of the for the calling of a nine nine nine call. And then you just hear the rotor blades turning and you see the crew going in into their professional work. And a helicopter goes and you you you don't know what's happening at the time, but you just there's always a reflection. If you ever needed reminded what you're doing and why you're doing it, it's there in a heartbeat. It's there in just moments. and, you know, when I joined we was say, you know, the the previous chief executive left, you know, maybe it was six months before. So I had a kind of the Board of Trustees involved, you know, running the charity at the time, you know, done a great Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: job in that. but there were it was very clear the brief was they were looking for somebody who'd been in a chief executive role and I guess probably predominantly somebody who knew about fundraising and how to develop Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: charities. So I I hadn't known that at the time but when I went through the process it became quite clear. So yeah, you know, a couple of interviews later, you know, and over the next kind of two to three months, I was offered a role and and there was no hesitation. It was just something Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: that I I knew that for me professionally being a chief executive of a national charity in Scotland was a professional ambition of mine. You know, you you've been Adam Stacey: and David Craig: seeing a roles of being a chief executive of a small regional charity. But to Adam Stacey: Yeah. David Craig: have the scalability and opportunity to do that was was was great. but I think it was myself and five other charity staff members at the time when I joined and raising one point eight million at the time and eleven years later we're now just about ten million. Adam Stacey: Yeah, which is, David Craig: and saving hundreds and thousands of lives in the in in the process with the crew. It's it's it's an amazing charity and I'm I feel very fortunate with the the team that I'm working with as well. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And do you think there's a shift in mindset that has to take place from, from going from running a fundraising function and team to then stepping into this, you well, running a whole organization, or at what point, or was there a shift? Because like you say, go from a team of five to obviously now a much bigger organization 11 years later. David Craig: Hmm. Well the the the good thing about being a chief executive is you surround yourself with people who are far better and and much more competent than you are in certain things. So, you know, you know you understand maybe s what some of your weaknesses may well be. and you try and have a the right blend of that by having the right people in the right places and the right locations to do that. And again, I think if when you've you know you ha you have a board and you have to have you know the board needs to have trust and confidence in you as a leader. is as much as your team need to do that as well. and I've taken, you know, I've I feel as if I've taken a lot of learning from those days in the 90s to working with so many good people throughout my my my career that the one thing I always I always felt that I benefited from was their trust and their confidence in me. and having some empowerment along the way as as I as I kind of went on. And I've taken I've always tried to take some of those learnings from us and try and have a a very strong working culture with, you know, values that people can feel that they can align themselves to. and I've taken little bits from every I either every person that I've come across or the charities in in particular. And like I say, I think you surround yourself with people that you can you can trust and and they feel empowered. And you know, sometimes they challenge you back and I I I welcome that. I absolutely 'cause I don't we don't know everything as chief executives th far from it and that's probably a misconception at start. It's not about the big decisions and the misconceptions and that it's just having good a good team of people asking the right questions and coming to a a sensible decision. Adam Stacey: Yeah. And what do you think that is that's kept you in the organisation for so long? Like I say, quite a lot of time, we see 10 years, I guess, in senior roles in the charity sector and so that's, I guess, the five, six, seven sort of year, year spate, and then it hits another strategic cycle and people move on and go start something new. What is it think that's kept you there for so long? David Craig: Yeah, well they'll do crazy. I there's a there's a few things I mean, even if I go back and I've I think the the the shortest I've been in a charity has been three to four years. So I was then you know, seven years. seven years yeah, seven years and then three years and then four years and now where I am just now. You know, I I think for me I know there's there's there's much more we can we can do as a as a charity to you know ensure that no one in Scotland should die because help can't get there anything. That's something that we have a very strong ambition to do within Scotland's charity rounds. you know, and we have a a daily reminder of that when we go into the office and then every week when we have a call with the whole organisation getting together and the crew come into those calls and they tell you about the week that they've just had. And they get an understanding and reflection as they what the charity's kind of going through as well to support that frontline delivery. you know, we had one helicopter operating ten hours a day. We've now got two helicopters, got a kind of state of the art one that we launched in Aberdeen last year. and that's all about having the right, you know, type of I'll just use equipment. You know, we need to have the right equipment, you know, we feel that we've got the right people, you know, and people will Develop and grow and they will leave and they will exit, and hopefully we've helped them on that journey. but yeah, I think we're we're as an organization we're we're we're very clear on what that ambition is, and I think that's really what fuels you every day. And like I say, when you hear that bell, when you hear the rotors, and then a week later, when the organisation gets together every Thursday for one hour, you really understand what the crew have gone through, and then you think about the person at the other end of what the crew have had to go through. Adam Stacey: Yes. David Craig: and that's that keeps you absolutely fired up and motivated Adam Stacey: It hasn't. David Craig: to keep doing. But yeah, I'm I'm in the space I want you I'm in the space of succession planning. You know, that's I think that's right, fit and proper for any leader to think about. you know, my time will come up at some point, maybe in the next five years, who knows? But for now we're very focused on ensuring that the charity continues to to work towards trying to le reach that lofty ambition. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And like you say, a really powerful motivator that Thursday meeting to just to be able to see the impact that the organisation's having. Yeah, not just David Craig: Yeah. Adam Stacey: for you, but guess the whole, you know, clearly for the whole team. David Craig: Yeah, it's it's the one t I mean, so we all have the meetings, but it's something I've maintained. I mean, I I you know inherited some of it, but we we it's growing. There's now thirty-five staff. We've got twelve paramedics, four pilots, you know. So in any one day we'll have maybe either four sorry, six of the operational crew in that in that meeting room as well from both of our bases. And you'll get our very high level insight. You know, we don't mean to clearly don't preach any patient confidentiality, but you get you get the high level. And you can just let your mind just think about those moments of what they've kind of gone through. And sometimes the days are quiet, sometimes it's the it's it's it's constant all the time. So it's and we always start with the crew because that that sets the tone for the rest of of the rest of that that meeting. So yeah, it's the team's getting bigger, the charity's growing, we're delivering as you know, we're trying to deliver the best per best care that we possibly can. But you don't want to just stand still with it. You want to try and evolve and make it better. Because ultimately, the most important thing is the patient at the end of it. We want to make sure that that outcome for that patient is a positive one. And we're all we're all striving to ensure that all the components of the charity are are united in that. so that keeps me that keeps me where I'm here five years, 15 years, I think it's very hard not to be captivated and at least motivated by. by that drive to to to meet that ambition. Adam Stacey: Yeah, absolutely. And keeping an air ambulance in the sky, well, let alone more than one is not cheap. We know from conversations we've had with previous Chief Execs that have come on the podcast. For someone who's listening, hearing about Scotland's charity air ambulance for the first time, where can they go to find out more about the organisation and what kinds of ways can people get involved and help support the work? David Craig: Yeah, easy thing to go to the website the website scan dot org dot dot uk. There's a whole host of things that we have on there from again the typical events that I used to enjoy doing to people regularly giving corporate partnerships, you know, everything that we do, playing the lottery from as little as a pound a week. We know sometimes people get you know consideration for their own personal circumstances. So anyone who's we we're speaking to, your contribution is helping deliver that. that care across Scotland every single day. so whether you're a small independent person given a pound a week paying the lottery or you're a large grant funder or whoever it may well be, you know, that is the power of the collectiveness of that. That's what is delivering, keeping those aircraft flying and delivering the care to where it's needed most. Adam Stacey: Great. And David, these conversations always just seem to fly by. I always kind of like to sort of finish up with asking a question about something that maybe you've, as you reflect on your career today, maybe something that you've learned the hard way that's shaped, yeah, helped shaped you become the leader that you are today. David Craig: Yeah, I I th I thought I mean I've had to think about this. for me it's for me it's just about listening as as best as you can. I mean, I think again the early days when you're when you're young you're trying to just do everything you personally can. Maybe you're not thinking of that that that that listening moment. But I as a as a leader, I think it's also been a bit clear. Even when the clarity might be uncomfortable. But I think if you're approaching it absolutely the right way and where you're you know you're being as as candid as you possibly can. And it's things that I you know I I've taken with me because I've either failed at them because I've not done that, and I've learned something from it. and we try and promote that, or at least I certainly feel that I try and promote this as as much as we possibly can. and I think you know when you've I say you've got good people with you. They're they're making good sound quality decisions. But yeah, just having I I but I would certainly like to think that, you know, if you were asking people in the organization, they'd probably think I'm I'm a person with refreshing candor. However, which way that comes out, I'm not quite too sure. But that's that's important to me. And you know we I tried to work on the spirit of no surprises within the organisation, even as isn't I say as is as uncomfortable, as as difficult it might well be. I think you have a responsibility as a leader to to deal with that early. Adam Stacey: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's really, really brilliant insight. And it's been so, well, so refreshing to hear, you know, the conversation that we've had and just brilliant to hear from you and the opportunities. I think this is a great show in highlighting the opportunities that the sector can give to people and just the, yeah, rewarding careers that can come from it. So I'm so grateful for you, David, coming on the show and sharing your story with us. We'll make sure, as long you're happy, make sure that you're tagged in the... Obviously the organisation has tagged as well. There's David Craig: Sure. Yeah. Adam Stacey: links through to the website and the show notes so people can click through to read more about the organisation and see how they might be able to get involved and support. David Craig: Yeah, great Adam and I say it's it's a pleasure to be to be part of it. I I know how successful your podcasts have been, so I'll great to to to to promote the work of my current role in Scan, talk about my career and I think people are coming up through that sector. you know, there's so much opportunities there for you. I think you just just grasp them while you can. Adam Stacey: Absolutely. Well, let's end it on that great piece of advice. David, thanks again so much for coming on the show. David Craig: Thank you, Adam.