Latest / Pod Save America / “Impeachment: we’re in it.”

Transcript

“Impeachment: we’re in it.” · Pod Save America

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: From Iowa, Tommy Vitor.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: Hey guys. Loving the Instagram stories, Tommy. Thank you. I'm
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: trying out a new medium, at Tommy Vitor. All right.
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: You know, little vignettes from the State Fair, a little
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: slice of Americana that you just can't get in L.A.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: With you elites. There you go.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: There you go. Great.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: Later in the pod, we have Lovett's interview with Florida
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: Congresswoman Debbie Mugersel-Powell, who dropped by Cricket Headquarters on Friday
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: to talk about impeachment, immigration, and lots of other things.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: But first, we have a lot of news to talk about,
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: from the possibility that Congress may finally pass gun safety
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: legislation to... the formal impeachment inquiry launched by the House
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: to the mysterious death of Jeffrey Epstein. We'll also get
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: an update from the 2020 campaign trail and on what's
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: been happening in Iowa, where Tommy is right now. Love It,
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: how was Love It or Leave It this weekend?
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: We had a blockbuster episode of Love It or Leave
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: It with Larry Wilmore, Paul Scheer, Alice Wetterlin, Veronica Osorio.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: She stopped by to do a rant. We talked about
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: the hard news of the week. We had some fun.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: It is a truly great episode. Also, Paul Scheer worked
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: at the Syosset Blockbuster that I also went to when
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: I was a teen.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Wow, burying the lead there.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: That's why I called it a Blockbuster episode. Oh.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: You see?
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: See what you did there.
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: Finally, our show at the Greek Theater in Los Angeles
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: is this Saturday, August 17th.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: It's finally almost here.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: Some tickets are still available at crooked.com slash the Greek,
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: and if you need any extra motivation, it's going to
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: be Lovett's birthday.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Finally. Finally.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Lovett's birthday.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: The celebration I deserve.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: This is why we did it.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: The Greek theater. Happy 40th birthday, Lovett. Yeah. Pick 4-0.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: People can see this on the stream. They know that
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: that's not possible.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: 42. Okay, let's get to the news.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: Over the last few days, Donald Trump has said multiple
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: times that he's in favor of, quote, meaningful background checks
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: to reduce gun violence. And he also said that Mitch
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: McConnell was, quote, on board. The New York Times reports
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: that the president also told donors in the Hamptons over
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: the weekend that he's confident he'll get a deal on
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: guns and that, quote, the Senate doesn't need to return
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: early because the congressional leadership in both parties would agree
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: on something that members could vote on when they return
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: in the fall. So, Tommy, we have no idea what
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: will happen here, but we do know a few things.
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: McConnell hasn't endorsed anything yet. Trump is a liar. And
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: Trump said something similar to this after Parkland and then
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: sort of backed off once the NRA got involved.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: All that said.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: What are the political dynamics that could potentially make this
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: time different?
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: I do think that the NRA is severely weakened because
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: it was essentially an organization that stopped caring about gun
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: rights and gun safety and was primarily focused on getting
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Wayne LaPierre to and from his new mansions on a
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: private jet.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: So.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Those guys have atrophied. There have been some amazing groups
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: that have popped up on the left, like Moms Demand Action.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Mayor Bloomberg deserves a ton of credit for everything he's
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: funded with Everytown that have built a grassroots movement for
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: change in favor of gun control measures. Now, I don't
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: believe for a second that Republicans will support the policies
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: we're talking about because Mitch McConnell or Trump or the
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: NRA had a change of heart. I think they're only
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: going to decide to support gun control measures if they
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: think that there's a political benefit for them or if
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: they're scared of losing elections. What I fear might happen
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: is McConnell supporting some sort of half measure that sounds meaningful,
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: but actually is insufficient. Democrats block it to push for
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: a bigger reform. And this allows the press to return
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: to a both sides are playing politics narrative. The reason
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: I'm worried about this is because you see people like
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: John Cornyn and John Barrasso, who you've probably never thought
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: about in your life, but is actually the number three
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: in charge in the Senate, already throwing cold water on reform.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: So Hope springs eternal. We should all fight like hell
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: to get good gun safety laws passed. But, you know,
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: Trump owes the NRA about $ 30 million for all the
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: ads they ran for him in this last cycle. And
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: they're going to remind him of that every single day.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, love it.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: McConnell said that background checks and red flag measures will
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: be front and center when the Senate reconvenes. There's a
• 4:27
  Speaker 4: piece in The Atlantic saying how, you know, it was
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: significant that he acknowledged the overwhelming support in public polling
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: for stronger background checks. What do you think McConnell's up
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: to here, since it's always more than meets the eye?
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to say. So it's worth stepping back
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: and realizing the last time we were this close to
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: passing something was 2013, when background checks failed due to
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: a filibuster in the Senate due to Republican intransigence led
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: by Mitch McConnell. The issue was largely dead for the
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: years that followed because Republicans controlled both chambers of Congress.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: It wasn't until Democrats retook House in 2018, that there were, again,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: hearings on this issue in the House for the first
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: time in years. The issue has changed in that span
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: of time. It has been six years. In those six years,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: there's been no let up in gun violence. There's been
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: no let up in mass shootings. And slowly but surely,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: the politics of this issue has changed. Now, whether when
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: Congress comes back, McConnell does what he says he's willing
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: to do, or if he was simply using the August
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: recess as an opportunity to claim to be open to
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: something while not committing to it, to simply get over
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: the hump of this issue for fear of introducing a
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: measure that divides his caucus and unites the Democrats. We
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: just honestly don't know. One other thing I would note
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: about this is Trump has been very, very wishy-washy on
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: this issue. He has... a gut political sense that being
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: for gun control is good for him. He wants to
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: be for it. It is why again and again, not
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: just after this shooting, but also after Parkland, as John
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: points out, but several times in the intervening years, he
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: has said, I don't see why we can't do some
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: form of gun control only to discover in a private
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: phone call or meeting behind the scenes why he can't
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: because of the political opposition arrayed against Republicans who might
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: be for this issue. So I really think we don't know,
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: but these are more hopeful signs than we have seen
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: in years.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think if if these were smart people, if Donald,
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: if it was a smart White House, you would want
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: to pursue some kind of gun safety legislation, because, you know,
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: one thing in the back of some of the smarter
• 6:40
  Speaker 4: Republican strategist minds is that they are hemorrhaging voters, Republican
• 6:44
  Speaker 4: voters in the suburbs. That was the story of the
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: 2018 election, where because of these mass shootings and not
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: just one of them, but because they happen over and
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: over and over again. There's a lot of people there
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: who are, you know, the politics of gun control have shifted.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: And there's a lot of more moderate, more traditionally Republican
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: independent voters who do want to see gun safety legislation passed.
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, Tommy, remember when we were knocking on doors
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: with Joe Biden in Orange County, the heavily Republican Orange County,
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: like how many people when we knocked on the doors
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: were actually talking about Parkland and gun safety is one
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: of the reasons that they were really excited to come
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: out and vote.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there were nearly 40,000 gun deaths in the United
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: States in 2017. 60% of those were suicides, according to
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. But yeah, I mean,
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: it's not just that there is an epidemic of gun
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: violence in this country. It's there have been these constant
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: high profile mass shootings that have driven it to the
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: forefront of the political conversation and.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: In the news.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: And like, you know, back to what you guys were
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: saying about Trump. I mean, it would be incredibly smart
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: for him to make a deal and put forward a
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: you know, common sense gun safety proposal that would actually,
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: if you pulled it, would probably be supported by 60
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: or 70 percent of the country. The problem has been
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: that when he's presented a choice between being a dealmaker,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: which he says he wants to be, and his base,
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: he always chooses his base. And then on top of that,
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: the NRA has a no retreat, no surrender approach to
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: all gun control policy. They treat every gun control proposal
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: like it's a slippery slope argument that could one day
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: lead to eradicating the Second Amendment. So, you know, even
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: when we were talking about just banning bump stocks, which
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: turned a semi-automatic weapon into a machine gun, that took
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: 19 months for that ban.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: To go in place.
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: So, you know, he's got to want to fight for this.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: And sadly, like his own staff was backgrounding the Washington
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: Post saying that, you know, he kind of lost interest
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: in the issue after a few weeks.
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: I was just going to say, I think like there's
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: a couple of big obstacles here to getting this done.
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: you know, the NRA is still an obstacle. They've already
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: come out and said that they don't want background checks.
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: They don't want anything. And that, you know, Trump supporters
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: would be disappointed if he supported this. So that's an obstacle.
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: As you mentioned, there's a lot of Republicans in the
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: Senate who have not been moved by this, by the
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: recent mass shootings at all, and are still maintaining their
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: same position, which is no gun control whatsoever, no background checks,
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: no nothing. But I do think the other big obstacle
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: here is time. And as you were saying, Tommy, Trump
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: lost interest after Parkland because the news cycle moved on.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: And I think what McConnell could be betting is that
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: by not calling the Congress back right now and waiting
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: till the fall, Trump will have lost interest and maybe
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: the country will have lost interest and they can move on.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: So I think for Democrats, the question is, what can
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: we do to make sure that this time isn't like
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: all the other times? And I think You know, there's
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: supporting organizations like Everytown on Moms Demand Action and continuing
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: to build the grassroots momentum behind this and to continue
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: to pressure vulnerable Republican senators and potentially more moderate Republican senators. Again,
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: the ones that are up in 2020, like Cory Gardner
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: is probably the most vulnerable Republican senator. He's in a
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: state that has very strict gun laws in Colorado. Susan Collins,
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: people like that, Tom Tillis in North Carolina, right? Like
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: I think we have, it's up to us to keep
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: the pressure on Trump and the Republicans through the next
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: few weeks into September so that we're not sitting here
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: in mid-September when McConnell and McConnell says, you know what?
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: We had a couple hours debate on gun safety measures
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: and the votes just weren't there, so we're moving on.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: And because, you know, there's a whole other set of
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: fucking crazy Trump tweets, we turn away and that's that.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's also, I mean, there will be more mass shootings.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: This topic's not going anywhere. The news cycle will return
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: to this because there will be more mass shootings across
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the country on a pretty regular basis until we make
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: a bunch of very significant changes to our laws and
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: our culture. So, they can try to run from this issue.
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's worth also remembering, too, that what we're
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: talking about, background checks and red flag laws, right, that's
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: basically as far as Trump and McConnell have been willing
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: to go, is the bare minimum of what we can do.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Even banning assault weapons now has a above 50% approval
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: among Republicans. The country has moved so fast on this
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: issue because of the steady tempo of these mass shootings
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: that have made people feel as though There is nothing
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: they can do to protect their kids, that there's no
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: safe place, there's no safe part of the country, there's
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: nowhere to move, there's nowhere to hide. There's nothing that
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: they can do personally to avoid the random chance of
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: violence that has really terrified people. So whether or not
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: the news cycle moves on really isn't up to them
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: because we have this crisis and it's not going anywhere.
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: Tommy, do you think that Democrats should be pushing for
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: more than red flag laws and background checks and potentially
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: come back and try to pass an assault weapons ban
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: in the House? So then the compromise position can be
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: background checks and red flag laws?
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Yes, I absolutely do.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: I think they should push for as much as they
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: can get, in part because it's the right thing to do,
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: but also because, as Lovett said, there's a whole lot
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: of public polling that shows that the public supports those positions.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: The challenge has always been for Democrats that when you
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: get to election time and the NRA message is, you know,
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: sort of common sense gun control measures as take your
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: guns away, gun grab, like whatever it is they say,
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: it gets harder to win the fight. And they're able
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: to pick off a whole bunch of, you know, sort
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: of moderate gun rights supporters in the middle who might
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: actually support the positions if they weren't lied to about
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: what they.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Were voting on.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: But yes, I think we should fight for this. The
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: problem is, you know, we're talking about two or three
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: things today.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: One is impeachment.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: One is gun control. in a strange way, they're related
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: because Democrats are still terrified and scarred by votes.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: On those issues from the 90s.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: And we need to move on from political failures of
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: the past and have some courage and fight for things
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: that could prevent the death of tens of thousands of
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: people in a year in the country.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:51
  Speaker 4: And look, I think that the Democrats in Congress should,
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: you know, find some courage from what the Democratic presidential
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: candidates have been doing. Um, You know, they were at
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: a forum in Des Moines this weekend. Elizabeth Warren released
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: a plan that she said would reduce gun violence by
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: 80 percent that includes background checks and assault weapons ban
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: and national licensing. Beto came out for national licensing in
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: an assault weapons buyback program on Positive America last week.
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: Cory Booker has been, you know, he was the first
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: one for a national licensing program from the beginning. It
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: does seem like the Democratic presidential candidates taking those political
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: positions should instill some courage in the House and Senate
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: Democrats on this issue, you know.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: It's also worth remembering that the House has already passed
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: background checks, and it's currently dead in the Senate.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Which is also, yeah, which is notable.
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: I mean, the House bill on background checks is the
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: most sweeping legislation passed on guns by the House of
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: Representatives since 1994, since the last assault weapons ban. So
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: it's a stronger background check bill than even Manchin to me.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: You know, I wasn't at that forum on Saturday.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: I got here a day later.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: But I mean, I watched some of the coverage. I mean,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: it's interesting that that Senator Warren put forward this sweeping
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: plan that she says could reduce gun deaths by 80%.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: And that's incredibly important and admirable. And we should talk
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: about it. But it's also interesting seeing Andrew Yang get
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: up there and just respond to a woman telling him
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: a story about a stray bullet killing her four-year-old kid.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: As a human being, right?
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, he's the most recent politician on that stage.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: He's not even a politician.
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: He's just running for president. And he was like, broke
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: down and was crying. So yeah, I mean, these candidates
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: are taking courageous positions. They're, you know, pushing with all
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: their political will to try to get something done. And also, interestingly,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: in 2016, Bernie took some heat for his record on guns.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen much criticism of him this time around.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: It seems like everybody's more aligned this year than in
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: the past.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think that's a credit to the activists, right?
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: The reason the presidential candidates, I think, are more responsive
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: is that they're more in contact with activists on the ground,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: whether it's in Iowa, New Hampshire, in the who are
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: really pushing them. You see Moms Demand Action show up
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: at almost every event in the primary. And they're making
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: sure that this is an issue people vote on. Because
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: one problem with gun safety has always been the folks
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: that are anti-gun control, the NRA folks, they make this
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: an issue that people vote on. And even though polling
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: shows the majority of people want background checks and assault
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: weapons ban and all the other stuff, the intensity around
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: the issue hasn't been as great as it has been
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: on the other side. And I think what's shifted over
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: the last couple of years is the intensity on the
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: left has started matching the intensity on the right and
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: in many cases surpassing it. All right. Let's talk about
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: the other big development in Congress. Late last week, House
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler slipped this little nugget of news
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: into a CNN interview about his investigation of the president. Quote,
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: this is formal impeachment proceedings. We are investigating all the evidence.
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: We gather the evidence and we will, at the conclusion
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: of this, hopefully by the end of the year, vote
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: articles of impeachment to the floor or we won't. The
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: committee also put in writing in a lawsuit last week
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: that they are, quote, now determining whether to recommend articles
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: of impeachment against the president based on the obstructive conduct
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: described by the special counsel. About 120 House Democrats have
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: already come out publicly in favor of launching an impeachment inquiry,
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: a number that's been growing steadily since Mueller testified last month. Tommy,
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: did we miss the impeachment eagle take flight?
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: What's going on here?
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: No, look, this was the rollout that we've all always
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: hoped for, we've all always wanted. You've got to get
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: it in in the B block on Aaron Burnett is
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: out front or whatever the hell the name of the
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: show is. That is when you want to slip this
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: thing in there. Like mid-August, a Thursday night, that's when
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: you announce an impeachment proceeding.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, Lovett, what does this mean and how is
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: it different than what we've been in up until now?
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Would impeachment by any other name smell as sweet? You know, look,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I do believe the worst way we could end up
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: in an impeachment inquiry is via logic, you know, as
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: via the logical conclusion of what we've already done. I
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: understand why he's saying it. You know, the truth is
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: what what he's saying is, look, when I made the
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: request for the for the grand jury testimony, I had
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: to say that basically what we are doing is impeachment.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: So we're doing impeachment. when we're looking at crimes that
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: may lead to an impeachment inquiry, that is an impeachment inquiry.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: He's basically using the term impeachment proceedings to describe what
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: he's already been up to. I mean, I think definitionally
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: what he's saying is nothing has changed. I'm just following
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: what you're asking me to its logical end. That said,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I do think it's a big deal that they're acknowledging
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: it and actually talking specifically about the path to ultimately
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: impeachment possibly being on the floor.
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: I think it's also, it's a strategy to paper over
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: the differences that remain in the caucus, right? Jerry Nadler,
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: you've been able to, we've all been able to tell
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: for quite a while now, is in favor of impeachment.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: And he has been holding back partly because of Pelosi,
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: and Pelosi's been holding back partly because of there's a
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: lot of House Democrats who don't want to do this
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: in a lot of swing districts. The thing everyone should
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: know is Pelosi specifically blessed this language. It was not
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: an accident that that Jerry Nadler said, yeah, we're in
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: formal impeachment hearings now. And then people have been parroting that.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: Maybe they did not expect to actually just do it
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: on a Friday afternoon at CNN. But Pelosi has blessed
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: the language. Nadler has said it. And I think here's
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: the strategy. A formal impeachment inquiry through the House Judiciary
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: Committee does not require a full vote in the House.
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: And so members who are nervous of getting on board
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: right now did not have to take a vote at
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: the same time. they can show people that they're taking
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: this seriously and they're actually moving forward and they're not
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: dragging their feet on impeachment. So they're trying to basically
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: have it both ways and continue to avoid the fight
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: within the party where there's a whole bunch of House
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: Democrats who are still sort of shaky about this.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting, right? So what is the purpose of that?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: And I suppose what it gives you the space to
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: do is provide more information, more supporting facts and arguments
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: about So that if we ultimately do have a vote
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: on the House floor, it's one big vote that everyone
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: is sort of behind while not hamstringing their ability to
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: kind of get to that place because they would require
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: the votes of all these vulnerable members who aren't there yet.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Pelosi is sincerely worried and has told reporters this, her
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: team has on background, that impeachment could tear the party apart.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: It could lead to our political ruin and would just
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: be terrible. So it does seem like Nadler has done
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: a lot of work to get her to where we are.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: My concern is that having it both ways could lead
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: to us not really understanding what impeachment means in 2019.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: I saw a quote from.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Hillary Clinton who said, you know, her advice on impeachment
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: was restrain yourself from grandstanding and holding news conferences and
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: playing to your base.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: I just think that's the worst idea. advice imaginable.
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Our whole goal here is to win a public argument
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: about the president of the United States and his unfitness
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: for office. We are not going to actually win an
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: impeachment vote in the Senate unless something changes massively. This
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: is a PR campaign. So you've got to be holding
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: news conferences. You have to be fighting this out on
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: cable TV and in the news and every single day
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: going up against a series of Trump tweets that will
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: call it rigged and a witch hunt and getting his
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: cult to follow him and parrot that language. So You know,
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: I just hope that if we go through with this,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: the worst of both worlds is like a sort of
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: half hearted attempt that that either fizzles or doesn't, you know,
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: educate voters on his crimes.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Right. If you're if you're afraid to if you're afraid
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: to actually full throatedly say we're doing impeachment, you've defeated
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: yourself before you've even began.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: It can't be a long twilight impeachment.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: No, I mean, you're Tommy. You're exactly right. Like the
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: reason to do this is to. grab the microphone away
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: from Donald Trump and to make the public case against him.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: That is the reason to do impeachment because as we know,
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: the Senate's not going to convict him. And you know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: as you've said many times, like this is not about
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: just feeling good that we've done the morally right thing here.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: I mean, from a political strategy standpoint, the idea is
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: to parade a bunch of witnesses in front of live
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: television and talk about all of Donald Trump's crimes. Now
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: there is some evidence that that is what Jerry Nadler
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: has in mind. Um, For one, he's not just sticking
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: to the Mueller report. He's going to go broad. He's
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: going to talk about emoluments. He's going to talk about
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: a whole bunch of other abuses of power. They're going
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: to go to court to make sure that Don McGahn testifies,
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: the president's former counsel. They believe that Don McGahn is
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: their star witness. He was Mueller's star witness. We heard
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: from people close to Mueller even before Mueller testified that
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: you know, Mueller's going to disappoint you people because he's
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: not going to go beyond the report. He's not the
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: one you want. The one you want is Don McGahn,
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: since Don McGahn was there and the star witness for
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: a lot of the actual obstruction. So it does seem like,
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: you know, Nadler knows what he's doing here. But the
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: only way this works is if Democrats stop whining about
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: impeachment and worrying about impeachment, the Democrats who may be
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: opposed to it, and the party as a whole makes
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: the case for impeachment. You got to start talking about
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: less about the process of impeachment and more about why
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: he deserves it.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it just, it can't, it can't just be that,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm going to use a sports metaphor, but
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: in my mind, I'm picturing like Jerry Nadler with a
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: football kind of like making his way down the field, right?
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Like he needs to, he can't be, he can't like,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: he can't be having to avoid democratic football players and
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Republican football players.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? He needs blockers on his team.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: We need a team. You need the flying V. We
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: need a flying V. That's exactly right, Tommy. Got it.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what can people do to hold.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: To get it to the end zone.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: What can people do to hold Democrats' feet to the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: fire here?
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: Because, you know, for a while we've had this sort
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: of impeachment count, who's for it, who's against. But if
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: I'm a member who's either against impeachment or not quite
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: there yet, and someone asks me, you know, what's your position?
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: Now I say, well, there's a formal impeachment inquiry being
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: launched by the House Judiciary Committee, so I'm just going
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: to wait. I guess the danger is, All these Democrats
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: can just sort of wait this out and hope that
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: we get to the election and nothing happens. So what
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: can people do to sort of hold people's feet to
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: the fire here?
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: I would bet you a lot of money that nearly
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: every house, nearly every front desk person in Congress is
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: sending a report up to the chief of staff every
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: night about the number of phone calls that come in
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: in favor of impeachment or not in favor of impeachment.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: So now would be a good time to dust off
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: that phone and start making some calls.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: That's right. That's right.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: All right, let's move on to the news over the
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: weekend that Jeffrey Epstein was found dead in his jail
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: cell from what officials are saying is an apparent suicide
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: by hanging himself. Epstein was found dead as he was
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: awaiting trial for running a child sex trafficking ring. And
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: shortly after, thousands of documents from civil suit against him
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: were released on Friday. Almost immediately, a number of questions
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: and online conspiracies were spread about the circumstances of Epstein's
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: death by people like the president of the United States,
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: who shared a conspiracy that his predecessor, Bill Clinton, had
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: Epstein murdered. Guys, first of all, what do we know
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: about how this happened or how this could have happened?
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: Let's start with the facts and then we can move
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: on to the awful people pushing the conspiracy.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's what we know. We know that this is
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: a person who should not have been in a position
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: to commit suicide. That this is a person who should
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: have been watched and monitored because the case was so
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: important and because there was already so much speculation and
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: concern around it.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: And had been on suicide watch at one point.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Now, after that, look, it wasn't just, by the way,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: it wasn't just Trump. The internet exploded. It was like
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: every person was Hercule Poirot. Poirot?
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Who's that?
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Agatha Christie's famed detective. Oh, okay. Continue.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Didn't get into the Agatha Christie novels.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: But it really was just, when I saw the news
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: come over the transom that this happened, it was really,
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: it was like, It was seeing a future of 48
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: hours of every single person being a conspiracy theorist. And
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: that's exactly what happened. Trump is the nation's leading conspiracy theorist,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: but very serious people joined in the fun too.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Tommy, what did you think?
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, everyone who works at that facility should
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: be fired. And I know that treating criminals with basic
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: decency isn't the most politically popular position, but I do
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: think we should ask ourselves how it is possible that
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: The U.S. government manages institutions where American citizens are routinely beaten, raped, killed, tortured.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, it is such a profound failure, an utter
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: indictment of the prison system, our criminal justice system, that
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: I hope that will lead us to do some soul searching.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Because there's a whole bunch of victims who are hoping
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: for justice, who wanted to see him tried and sent
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: to jail. There may be other people who are part
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: of this criminal conspiracy that Epstein set up. who, you know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: we would have needed his testimony to, you know, definitively
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: try and put behind bars. I mean, I just, I
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: cannot believe it happened.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: And you know what?
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Like, obviously, I'm not trafficking conspiracy theories. I'm not retweeting
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: this madness. But I can totally understand why people hear
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: about someone like Jeffrey Epstein being left alone with no
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: one in his room, no roommate, no guard checks on him,
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: and he's able to kill himself. And it sounds fishy
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: and weird and awful. And it is absolutely infuriating.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and part of the reason.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: that we have all these conspiracies is Jeffrey Epstein was
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: a guy who was connected to a lot of very
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: rich and powerful people who, from the reporting and the
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: evidence we know so far, seem to get away with
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: really horrible crimes, partly because of his position of power
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: and wealth. And I think that's what fuels a lot
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: of these conspiracies.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: But yeah, you're right.
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, Attorney General Bill Barr this morning said there
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: were serious irregularities in In the prison where Epstein was
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: that he's in looking into. So there's going to be
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: an FBI investigation. There's going to be an inspector general
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: investigation on behalf of the Department of Justice.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: But it's like.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: Bill Barr being appalled that this could have happened. Bill
• 27:26
  Speaker 4: Barr's the one in charge of the prisons.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: You manage the Bureau of Prisons, buddy.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Right. Go fix it. That's his failure.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: He tried to kill himself previously. How are you not
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: watching this guy 24 hours a day? It is outrageous.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: And it does seem like quite a coincidence that we
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: just learned a whole bunch of information about Donald Trump
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: and a whole bunch of other important people being on
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: the plane with him. Again, I'm not suggesting anyone... killed
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: him or this was set up, but like it's unconscionable
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: that they would allow this to happen.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: And thus this will fester for the rest of time.
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: So the question is what can still be done right
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: now to make sure that the victims see justice and
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: also that the rest of us know exactly who helped
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: Jeffrey Epstein, the extent of his crimes, all the rest.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: So I will say one other facet of this that
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: was frustrating when the, you know, the, when the sleuths
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: put on their, their, their, uh, detective hats is there
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: was this sense that like, oh, they, that, that clearly
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein was murdered and he was murdered so that
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: he could take his secrets with him. And, and, you know,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: there's a, there, there is much that Jeffrey Epstein may
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: have known that we'll never know, but his crimes had victims.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Those victims can speak. His crimes had accomplices and other
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: perpetrators and other people involved. So there will be further investigations.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: There are ongoing civil cases. There are others who may
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: be prosecuted in connection to what happened with Jeffrey Epstein.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: So the hope to me has to be that despite
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: the fact that this injustice was allowed to occur, that
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: we are able to get a fulsome understanding of the
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: scale of his organization and that prosecutors and attorneys that
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: are part of these suits against Jeffrey Epstein's estate now
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: are able to get enough information out so that for
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: those who are suspicious, for those who want to see
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: this as a conspiracy, that enough is done to undo
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: the harm of allowing Jeffrey Epstein to be in a
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: position to die in federal custody.
• 29:21
  Speaker 4: So there's two important points here. One is the U.S.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: attorney in charge alluded to or said specifically that there's
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: a conspiracy charge involved in the Epstein case. Conspiracy means
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: there was multiple people involved in the crime. And so
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: hopefully there's co-conspirators and they can shed light on this
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: as well. And there's also the ability for the victims
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: to sue Jeffrey Epstein's estate. And that's a civil case,
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: but that would also bring to light a lot of
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: the information that might be sealed right now. So there's
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: sort of a couple different avenues where people can still
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: find out the truth and hopefully get some kind of
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: justice here. One more thing before we move off this. Like,
• 30:01
  Speaker 4: how does fucking Donald Trump, President of the United States,
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: get away with, like, we've all moved on from the
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: fact that he just casually retweets a conspiracy that Bill
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: Clinton and Hillary Clinton may have had something to do
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: with Epstein's death.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's worth remembering. Any other president. Could you imagine?
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: But that's the thing.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Could you fucking imagine any other president?
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: That's what you go to, though. You go to, if
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: any other president did that, wow, it would be serious.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: It is because we don't have a president. No one
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: takes his words seriously because he's a liar. and because
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: he's a conspiracy theorist, because he has so fundamentally damaged
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: his own reputation and word that when he does something
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: like this, it does not rise to the level of
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: what would happen if literally any other American president or
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: even top American official, American governor, American senator did the same.
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: I think that's letting him off the hook a little
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: bit because you say no one truly believes that his
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: words doesn't mean anything. It does to like 40% of
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: the country. I mean, when he does that, he is
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: continuing to fuel the conspiracy theories that keep him as president.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: There is, before Jeffrey Epstein, a conspiracy theory called QAnon
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: that suggests that the Mueller investigation was a covert campaign
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: to root out an elite child sex trafficking ring and
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: that JFK Jr. is still alive and he's going to
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: reveal that he's been alive all along so that he
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: can take Pence's place on the 2020 ticket. And like,
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: it's the craziest thing I've ever heard in my life.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: But there are multiple deaths and murders associated with the
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: QAnon conspiracy theory. And for Donald Trump to retweet a
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: video that suggests Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton have a
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: body count and just had this Epstein guy murdered as
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: a way to cover up their crimes and cover up
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: for sex offenders is putting their lives at risk.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: And it's like, there are some crazy people out there
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: who will take action in circumstances like this. And it
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: is actually, you know, I do think we should pause
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: and reflect on how just unbelievably dangerous that is.
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: The president- and his words and his actions in between
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: that is a threat to national security. We just saw
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: a terrorist attack in El Paso by a terrorist, a
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: white nationalist terrorist, who used in his manifesto the same
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: language as Donald Trump. And that happened to be targeting
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: the Latino community and immigrants. But the president also, when
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: something bad happens and everyone goes back and says, oh,
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: it's not Donald Trump's fault, how can you tie this
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: to Donald Trump? Retweets like that, or why it's Donald
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: Trump's fault. That is the exact shit that has the
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: potential to incite violence.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: And this is, again, though, this is what he has
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: been doing. This is not, to me, a new low
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: for him. He accused Ted Cruz's father of killing JFK.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: He is the lead birther conspiracy theorist. He has been
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: part of the conspiracy theory around vaccines, which has killed
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: children in this country. He has been saying for years
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: now with no evidence that millions of of undocumented immigrants
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: voted in california which is why he lost the popular
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: vote there is no kind of conspiracy theory there is
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: no uh there is no story he's not willing to
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: tell if he if it uh if he views it
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: as something that will help him politically no matter how
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: destructive and man.
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah i am i am doing a little soul searching
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: about buying a uh ted cruz is the zodiac killer
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: uh t-shirt maybe um maybe we all shouldn't have laughed
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: at all the crazy shit trump was saying about ted
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: cruz back in the day because.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: It is uh Real bad. Not going there with you, Tommy.
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: No, yeah, the reason you can feel good about that
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: is because Ted Cruz likes to tweet about that himself,
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: and so he's in on the joke, too.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he did it. At least it was a
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: clear joke. He did it.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, here's the thing. One more point on this.
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: A man who, in court last week, said he was
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: directly inspired by Donald Trump's rhetoric sent a pipe bomb
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: to Bill and Hillary Clinton. And to have that, that
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: just happened in October of 2018. And Donald Trump retweeted
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: that yesterday, what he tweeted about a Clinton body count.
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: After Bill and Hillary Clinton were sent a fucking pipe bomb.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, the QAnon thing is just shockingly close and
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: similar to the Jeffrey Epstein thing. So it makes the
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: whole conversation just really weird and unnerving. But, you know,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: the FBI recently identified the QAnon conspiracy theory as a
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: domestic terrorist threat. So these little online communities and conspiracy
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: theories that have been cooked up and that are festering
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: in places like 4chan or 8chan have become dangerous and
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: people are taking action in real life based on all
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: this crazy stuff they read online.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: It's also worth noting, too, that Trump is not just
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: fanning a conspiracy theory. It's a conspiracy theory about a
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: story in which he has a connection. And so it
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: is someone who is using a deeper, broader conspiracy theory,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: fanning the flames of it online so that his connection
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: to the story seems as part of this muddle of
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: hard-to-parse information.
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: That's his rubber-glue strategy. He's been doing that since 2016.
• 34:46
  Speaker 4: It's not me that's the problem.
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: You're the problem. You did the thing that people.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Accuse me of. No puppet. No puppet. Also, one thing
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: we should just say, too, is that a lot of
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: this was covered, and a lot of this story became
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: public because of reporting by Julia K. Brown in the
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Miami Herald that I think brought a lot of this
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: to the national attention in a way it otherwise wouldn't have.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of what will help us understand
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: what happened in the story will not just be because
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: of the justice system, but will be because of reporting.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: That's all.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: All right, let's talk about the 2020 primary. The Washington
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: Post was just one of many media outlets that published
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: a piece over the weekend about how Joe Biden's recent
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: string of verbal gaffes are making Democrats nervous. Matt Visor,
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: who wrote the story, gave us a list. Quote, on Saturday,
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: Biden said he met with Parkland students while he was
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: vice president, even though the Florida shooting took place a
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: year after he left office. In his speech Thursday at
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: the state fair, Biden bungled the line and said, quote,
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: we choose truth over facts. He initially referred to former
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: British Prime Minister Theresa May as one of her predecessors,
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: Margaret Thatcher. And speaking before a Latino and Asian group,
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: he argued for challenging students in underserved areas, but said, quote,
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: poor kids are just as bright and just as talented
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: as white kids. He caught himself and quickly added wealthy kids,
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: black kids, Asian kids.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: No, I really mean it.
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: But think about how we think about it. Tommy, how
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: much should these gaffes matter? Is this narrative warranted or
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: is it overblown?
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, Biden as gaffe machine is not a new narrative, right?
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: I mean, we dealt with this on the Obama campaign.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: Many of his previous presidential campaigns have been either upended
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: or ended by Biden gaffes. So I was not surprised
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: by it. It was odd to see all of the
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: national media tip sheets sort of shove the narrative down
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: our throats in one place like a global assignment editor
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: on the same day. And What would worry me about
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: that from if I were on Biden's team is I
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: haven't been in Iowa long, but I talked to a
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: lot of people yesterday at the fair, including a bunch
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: of people who work on campaigns. And one thing that
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: they've been telling me is that the national narrative this
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: time around is more important than it ever was before.
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: You can have an Iowa caucus goer who had some
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: candidate in his or her living room, and it still
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: might matter more to them what he or she said
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: on Matto last night than that conversation. So this could
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: turn out to be a pretty big problem for Biden. Like,
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: I hate to be, you know, just a pundit in
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: viewing this, but, you know, it's a challenge. Now, of course,
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: the whataboutism argument is quite strong. If you compare Biden's
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: sort of misstatements or misspeaking to the things Donald Trump
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: says or does all day, every day on purpose, it's
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: not a question. But I do think everyone is looking
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: for the most electable Democrat. They want someone who will
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: get up there and win and won't cause any problems
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: for him or herself. And like, Biden has got to
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: overcome this narrative if he wants to convince people that
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: he's the.
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: Guy to take on Trump. Love it.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: What's your opinion on this one?
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I find it interesting the way everyone has just put
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: everything that a candidate does that isn't good into the
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: basket marked gaffes, because I think it's not really that
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: helpful to understanding what's happening right now. So it's true.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Biden has had, you know, is famous for his gaffes. Right. But,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: you know, there's I would say I'd put these into
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: three baskets. One is just inappropriate comments. There was a
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: plagiarism allegation years ago. There have been some insensitive jokes
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: and remarks and sentences, things he's had to apologize before
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: in the past. That's sort of part of Biden's trajectory.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Some of the things that people are pointing out here
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: are just kind of misplaced words, right? We need truth,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: not facts, right? That's a very minor mistake that I.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: Don't care about at all.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: That's not offending anyone.
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: No.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: And by the way, honestly, also, Him having a brief
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: moment of thinking that he was vice president when he
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: talked to the survivors of a particular mass shooting, I
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: don't find particularly instructive because we live in a fucking
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: murder scape in which he has met with many, many
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: survivors of mass shootings over the years. So I don't
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: find that particularly interesting and I don't care about it.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: I do think what we're all dancing around, Donald Trump
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: is now saying Joe Biden is not the old Joe Biden.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden is not playing with a full deck. that
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: is what this conversation is ultimately about. There's this question
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: not of, oh, is the old Joe Biden gaffe machine,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: is it going to be a problem in 2020? The
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: question people are really asking is, has Joe Biden slowed
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: down a bit and is that producing a greater preponderance
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: of gaffes? And that is to me a simple question
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: he has to prove or disprove on the campaign trail.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: And I think I think what's unfair about that to
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: Biden is, you know, he gave a speech in Iowa
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: last Wednesday about, you know, in the wake of El
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: Paso and Dayton and, most pundits, most people who watched
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: the speech said it was maybe the strongest speech Joe
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: Biden has ever given. And he was very forceful. And
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: he definitely looked like a candidate who can take on
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: Donald Trump. The problem for him is the coverage around
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: that lasts a day, if that. It gets mentioned in
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: with Cory Booker's speech and a bunch of other candidates.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: And the gaffes end up getting outsized coverage. And I
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: get it from the Biden campaign's perspective. You know, Tommy,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: you mentioned this, but the Washington Post just this morning
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: said that Trump has averaged 13 false or misleading statements
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: per day since being president. He's also a white nationalist
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: and a criminal. So, you know, the comparison isn't very
• 40:06
  Speaker 4: favorable to Donald Trump when you compare him and Biden.
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: But we are in a primary, right? And the tough
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: part for Biden is there's a little bit of, live
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: by electability, die by electability, right? So saying that his
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: gaffes will hurt him with voters, basically, you're not saying
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: a lot of these gaffes actually offend you or that
• 40:26
  Speaker 4: he meant them or he was bad or something like that.
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: What you're thinking is, oh, well, if he's not up
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: to the task, maybe when he runs against Trump, other
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: people might not vote for him because they're worried that
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: he's not as sharp as he used to be. It's
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: almost the flip side of saying, oh, people will vote
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: for him because moderate white guys in the Midwest like him.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: That's exactly right.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is particularly acute in the moment because
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: everyone is concerned about electability. It's the first, second, third
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: issue on people's minds. These media narratives get constructed during
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: the course of a campaign, and they almost always have
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: nothing to do with the job of being president. I mean,
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: it was seen as a hit on Obama that he
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: was aloof and professorial because somehow that has a downside
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: that none of us understood.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was stupid then.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Biden misspeaking is not necessarily relevant unless you're trying to
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: suggest that he's in some kind of cognitive decline and
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: then that would actually be relevant.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: But I don't hear people making that assertion. So, yeah,
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: it's frustrating.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: Biden needs to fight his way through this narrative. He
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: needs to prove to people that he's sharp and he's
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: tough and he can kick ass at a debate. And
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: I think like he can put this thing to bed.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: if he just performs really well at the third debate
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: or the fourth or whatever the next opportunity is.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. The speech he gave, by
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: the way, was great. It was a great speech. And
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: it was, to me, the first moment in the Biden
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: campaign for presidency in 2020, where I saw an affirmative
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: case for Joe Biden that wasn't just about electability. He
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: made an argument. It was passionate. It was just an
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: excellent speech that I think spoke to the moment really,
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: really well. So it's like it's this it's a it's
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: it's not hard what he has to do to dispel
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: this this narrative. He has to campaign, campaign aggressively and
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: show people that it's bullshit.
• 42:13
  Speaker 4: And he has to be at the level he was
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: on during that speech all the time, you know, like
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: almost all the time. And it's look, it's harder for him.
• 42:21
  Speaker 4: But this is what happens when a narrative takes hold
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: about you and then different candidates have different problems that
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: they're grappling with. Each of them has, you know, a
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: different issue.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: But.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: This is Biden's really. And like you said, Tommy, I
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: think that the danger to Biden is the Trump hit.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: Which is not, oh, he is, you know, Uncle Joe.
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: And sometimes he says things that are, you know, his
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: verbal gaps. It's more, oh, you know, he's he's not
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: fully there or he's not as sharp as he used
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: to be. That's that's the danger to him. And look,
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: I really do believe and this isn't just an electability thing.
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: I think whoever our nominee is has to be incredibly
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: nimble to run against Donald Trump. You have to be
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: nimble as a candidate. You have to get the media
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: environment in 2019. You have to be quick on your feet.
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: And and I'm not saying that's even an age thing either, because,
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: you know, Bernie Sanders is pretty quick on his feet
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: when he and Elizabeth Warren is very quick on her feet.
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: She's not as as old as those two guys. But
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: it's hard to be as old as you guys.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: Well, you're saying like she hurt she and her campaign
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: probably understand how the media works better than almost any
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: other campaign.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: So.
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: It's not just an age thing, but you have to
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: be nimble to go against Donald Trump.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: You have to be.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: And it's also notable, like Donald Trump is scared of
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: running against Joe Biden. I mean, he is tweeting about
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: him constantly. He is trying to drive this narrative that
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: Joe has lost a step, that he's in decline, that
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: he is, you know, fill in whatever sort of pejorative attack. So, like,
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, what I would take away from this, if
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: I were just observing the Trump's response from the Biden
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: campaign is, is that Trump doesn't want to run against me.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: And I would make that part of my message.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Tommy, how commanding is Biden's frontrunner status right now?
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: And what does it say that the race is a
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: lot closer in Iowa and the other early states than
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: it is nationally when you look at all this polling?
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I think that it's a couple of things.
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: I mean, Biden has a pretty commanding lead among African-American voters.
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: And in Iowa is, I believe, 93 percent white. So
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: you wouldn't see that strength reflected as much here. I
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: also think that Iowa voters are likely to be pretty
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: well informed, watching the race closely, more likely to know
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: that Elizabeth Warren had a great debate or Kamala Harris
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: had a great debate and to sort of move around
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: and have a chance to actually see candidates in person
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: and switch sides and make moves. All that said, polling
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: today doesn't matter. It only matters insofar as it's not
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: just about winning or losing these states.
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: It's about outperforming expectations.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: And getting one of three tickets out of Iowa or
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: whatever early state we're talking about. So I wouldn't sweat
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: it too much, but you do need to perform on
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: caucus day or else the media narrative around your campaign
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: is going to be that you underperformed, that you're flagging,
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: you're not going to be able to raise money, and.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: It will be a problem. Yeah.
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: And I think in terms of national polling, and just
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: so people know, the RealClearPolitics average in the national polling
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: Biden is at 30.8. Warren's at 18.3. And Sanders is
• 45:15
  Speaker 4: at 16.5. So Biden has a lead of 12.5 points.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: In Iowa, Biden's at 25.3. Warren is at 16.3. Harris
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: is at 14.3. So Biden has a nine point lead.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: So it's definitely it's slight. It's about three and a
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: half points.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Lower in Iowa.
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: National polling from now almost until the Iowa caucuses is
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: almost always sort of garbage.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: It helps with trends.
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: So if you can see where people are moving back
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: and forth, that national polling is usually helpful there. but
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: it's not really an accurate picture of the race because
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: what matters, at least until the early states vote, is
• 45:48
  Speaker 4: what's happening in the early states, what's happening in Iowa
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: and New Hampshire. So Iowa polling is really important. And
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: while it is still early, right, we have a couple
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: months to go before people start voting in Iowa, it's
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: getting on the later side of early at this point.
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: You know, Harry Enten had a piece at CNN over
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: the weekend about Biden's standing, and he said, Jeb Bush
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: in 2016, Rudy Giuliani in 2008, and Joe Lieberman in
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: 2004 were all losing at this point in Iowa and
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: polling at or less than 15%. They had all been
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: the frontrunners at the time that ended up losing. Biden
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: has led in every CNN-approved Iowa poll this cycle. So basically,
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: you know, Harry's conclusion is Biden's definitely not your traditional
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: really strong frontrunner like Hillary was, but he's not quite
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: as weak right now at this time in the race
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: as the Jebs, the Rudys, the other people. And, you know,
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: at the beginning of this primary, a lot of people said, oh,
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: Biden's going to be like a Jeb or Rudy or
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: Joe Lieberman and just falter, and.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: He hasn't yet.
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: So he's stuck in this sort of middle place where
• 46:47
  Speaker 4: he was not as strong as Hillary was against Bernie
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: at this point in 2016, but stronger than some of
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: the other frontrunners who went down.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: It's funny that you say that, too, because what I
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: was thinking is, like, you know, he's not a frontrunner
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: the way Hillary was in 2016, but there's a chance
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: he is a frontrunner the way Hillary was in 2008.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I think that, you know, the polling has been very stable.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: And I think surprisingly so. I think there's a lot
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: of people who expected after Warren or Harris had great
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: debates that there would be this change. But really what
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: you've seen is kind of bumps, then it kind of
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: goes back to this sort of stable place that it's
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: been in with Elizabeth Warren slowly but surely kind of
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: gaining a few points here and there. And so the
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: question is now, between now and January, what's going to
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: upend that dynamic? So very much a lot of time
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: for something to do that, but the race has been
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: very stable. Tommy, it is not in.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: That super early mode where everyone says, calm down, relax,
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: don't worry about it. But I will just, I think
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: I've said this before on the show, I remember sitting
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: in Paul Tews' office in August in Iowa, listening to
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: a polling call where I heard we were losing to
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Bill Richardson in the Des Moines media market. So, you know,
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: things can turn around.
• 47:52
  Speaker 4: Tommy, any observations from Iowa about who's running a strong
• 47:55
  Speaker 4: campaign out there?
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Give us some anecdotes. Give us some purely anecdotal evidence. Yes.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, listen, the thing about the national narrative,
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: I've heard that from a bunch of people being more
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: important this time. I'm going to go check out a
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: bunch of candidates' offices and things while I'm here.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, the.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Conventional wisdom is, is that Elizabeth Warren and Cory Booker
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: are building really great organizations. Biden is sort of right
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: after them, Mayor Pete as well. But I got to
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: go see it for myself before I know. It is
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: interesting that Kamala Harris, you know, it seemed like she
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: was floating with maybe skipping Iowa or having a different
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: set of priorities in terms of the state she was
• 48:33
  Speaker 3: focused on. She just did a five-day bus tour or
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: is maybe in the middle of it right now across Iowa.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: So You know, as we all expected, the election is
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: coming to Iowa. And, you know, we'll fight it out here.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, we will see what happens.
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: When we come back, we will have Lovett's interview with
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: Florida Congresswoman Debbie McCarcel-Powell.
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: She's a newly elected Democrat who represents Florida's 26th Congressional District. Welcome,
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Congresswoman Debbie McCarcel-Powell. Hi, John. How are you doing?
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: I'm great.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: So this has been a tough week. We've seen two
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: issues roiling the country, gun violence, anti-immigrant sentiment, come together
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: in this gruesome attack in El Paso. You're an immigrant.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: You're someone who lost her father to gun violence in Ecuador.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: How has that experience shaped your response to what we've
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: seen unfold?
• 49:30
  Speaker 6: You know, there are two very personal issues for me.
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: I I did not have the privilege of being born
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: in the United States. I came here when I was 14.
• 49:39
  Speaker 6: My mother brought my sisters and I, really looking for
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: opportunities that she knew she.
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: Was never going to have in Ecuador and for us
• 49:45
  Speaker 5: as well.
• 49:47
  Speaker 6: And seeing so many kids being separated from their families.
• 49:53
  Speaker 6: And knowing how scary it is to come to a
• 49:57
  Speaker 6: new country, I never was separated from my mother. And
• 50:01
  Speaker 6: hearing the rhetoric from this president, hearing the same rhetoric
• 50:04
  Speaker 6: from the Republicans in Washington, D.C., constantly criminalizing immigrants, it
• 50:10
  Speaker 6: was devastating to hear about the shooting in El Paso.
• 50:14
  Speaker 6: But unfortunately, it didn't completely surprise me. It's just I've
• 50:20
  Speaker 6: been hearing the same words being used over and over
• 50:23
  Speaker 6: again for the past two years, even before the president
• 50:25
  Speaker 6: started campaigning, before Trump started campaigning, calling immigrants criminals, you know,
• 50:31
  Speaker 6: saying that they're rapists. Well, I am an immigrant and
• 50:34
  Speaker 6: I am a congress member and it has to stop.
• 50:39
  Speaker 6: And on top of all of that, every time there's
• 50:42
  Speaker 6: a shooting, it's a trigger for me and for so
• 50:45
  Speaker 6: many families that have lost loved ones.
• 50:48
  Speaker 5: So it's been an emotional week.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: So the House has passed legislation on background checks. That's
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: stalled in the Senate. We've seen some signs in the
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: past 48 hours that Trump and McConnell, that pressure seems
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: to be getting to them to the point where they
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: are signaling their openness to possibly being willing to maybe
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: take up legislation, not bring the Senate back early, not
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: commit to anything. Do you believe that that is a
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: sincere commitment? openness or a desire to get past the issue?
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: I'm usually an idealist and I'm a positive person and
• 51:22
  Speaker 6: an optimist. And I'm hoping that at any moment, we're
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: going to see some common sense and some will from Trump,
• 51:30
  Speaker 6: from Mitch McConnell and the Republicans. But unfortunately, I don't
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: trust what Trump says. He says a lot of things,
• 51:39
  Speaker 6: but what we need to see is action. And I
• 51:42
  Speaker 6: know for a fact that that we sent this bill
• 51:45
  Speaker 6: in February.
• 51:46
  Speaker 5: It was one of our top priorities.
• 51:47
  Speaker 6: It was one of the most important days for me
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: because when I was in the Judiciary Committee, John, we
• 51:53
  Speaker 6: were 11 hours trying to pass this bill through the
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: Judiciary Committee. And the Republicans used every trick on the
• 52:01
  Speaker 6: book to try to delay the process. We had Moms
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: Demand Action and Students Demand Action sitting there for 11 hours.
• 52:07
  Speaker 6: We finally got it for a vote on the House floor.
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: the Republicans, most of them voted against it. Mitch McConnell
• 52:15
  Speaker 6: has had this bill since February. So what are we
• 52:17
  Speaker 6: waiting for? Why can't he go back to D.C.
• 52:20
  Speaker 5: And do it? I don't want to hear words. I
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: want to see action.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Is there anything else you think you and your colleagues
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: in the House should be doing? What do you think
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: of moving an assault weapons ban to the Senate?
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: I am ready to do that.
• 52:32
  Speaker 6: I've been very vocal about that from the very beginning
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: when I was campaigning. There's no reason why we should
• 52:37
  Speaker 6: have AR-15s in our communities. We had a call in
• 52:43
  Speaker 6: the Judiciary Committee just this week, and we all agreed
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: that we were ready to come back to D.C. to
• 52:49
  Speaker 6: mark up that bill and send it to the House floor.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: And for those listening, do you think there's anything people
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: who want to help on this issue can do? You know,
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: I think there's a hope on the part of some
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: who don't want to see any action that this dies
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: down over the August recess. What do you think?
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: I think that this is going to be an issue
• 53:08
  Speaker 6: that will not go away because, unfortunately, we see shootings
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: every single day happening in our communities. In Chicago, in
• 53:16
  Speaker 6: my area, in South Miami-Dade County, we have some of
• 53:19
  Speaker 6: the highest rates of gun violence for kids under the
• 53:22
  Speaker 6: age of 18. So it's something that we experience, unfortunately,
• 53:26
  Speaker 6: way too often. So it's not going to go away.
• 53:29
  Speaker 6: I am certainly not going to stop working on this issue.
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: And I know many of my colleagues feel the exact
• 53:35
  Speaker 6: same way. So we are ready in the House to
• 53:38
  Speaker 6: bring more bills to the floor. And I want to
• 53:41
  Speaker 6: see what McConnell and the Senate Republicans and this president
• 53:45
  Speaker 6: is going to do to take on these bills.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: It's interesting.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: It does seem as though Trump is... without any kind
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: of ideology here. He does seem to occasionally say, oh,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: we should do something like background checks or we should
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: do some form of gun control. And then he quickly
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: walks it back because he receives pushback behind the scenes.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: It seems as though Trump recognizes that there's a political
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: problem for Republicans. And it's starting to seem as though
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: this issue is changing enough that even people like Mitch McConnell,
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: who is not one to show his cards... has even
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: in the past few days said more than he has
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: in years, including when he stopped the bill in 2013,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: to show a willingness to address this issue. Do you
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: believe there is a shift happening in the country?
• 54:29
  Speaker 6: I think that we have had incredible courage from so
• 54:33
  Speaker 6: many parents that have lost their children in Parkland and
• 54:37
  Speaker 6: in other schools, the Sandy Hook situation. elementary shooting, the
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: parents have not stopped working on pieces of legislation that
• 54:45
  Speaker 6: are bipartisan, that are common sense. That's the bill that
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: we sent to the Senate. I think that because of
• 54:51
  Speaker 6: the public action, our voices being lifted up, ours, I mean,
• 54:55
  Speaker 6: because in my community, that's all I see. People marching,
• 55:01
  Speaker 6: calling their senators, calling their representatives, talking about the issue
• 55:05
  Speaker 6: in a relentless fashion, John, not just because of what
• 55:08
  Speaker 6: we've experienced in the past week, but this has been
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: going on now for years. I think that we sometimes
• 55:14
  Speaker 6: underestimate the power that we have in this country. And
• 55:18
  Speaker 6: we are seeing it just by what you're saying, that
• 55:20
  Speaker 6: they're at least recognizing that they have to talk about
• 55:24
  Speaker 6: possible legislation that is going to be common sense. For me,
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: the most important thing is going to be what action
• 55:30
  Speaker 6: they're going to take.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about... investigating Donald Trump. You're among the
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: House Democrats who signed on to launching an impeachment inquiry.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: You didn't do this without risk. You flipped your district.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: You'll have to defend your seat. Can you walk us
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: through how you got to the point of supporting an
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: impeachment inquiry?
• 55:52
  Speaker 6: When I got elected, and the reason why I ran
• 55:55
  Speaker 6: was actually to fight for gun reform laws because of
• 55:59
  Speaker 6: what we just talked about. to fight to protect our environment.
• 56:03
  Speaker 6: I represent an area that's very high risk for the
• 56:06
  Speaker 6: effects of climate change and also to lower health care costs.
• 56:09
  Speaker 6: I worked at the FIU Medical School as an associate
• 56:12
  Speaker 6: dean there. So those were the reasons why I ran
• 56:14
  Speaker 6: for office. When I received, when we finally received in
• 56:19
  Speaker 6: the Judiciary Committee the Mueller report, the redacted version of
• 56:22
  Speaker 6: the Mueller report, I read the entire report within two days,
• 56:26
  Speaker 6: front to back. And I immediately felt a sense of
• 56:30
  Speaker 6: duty that we had to investigate further, that we needed
• 56:34
  Speaker 6: to get more answers. That what I was reading in
• 56:36
  Speaker 6: that report clearly stated that this president has committed.
• 56:41
  Speaker 5: Obstruction of justice.
• 56:44
  Speaker 6: But I wanted to wait to get the unredacted version.
• 56:47
  Speaker 6: I wanted to hear from some of the fact witnesses,
• 56:50
  Speaker 6: including Don McGahn. And when Don McGahn, when we asked
• 56:54
  Speaker 6: him to come forth in front of the Judiciary Committee
• 56:57
  Speaker 6: and he didn't show up, that was another moment for
• 57:00
  Speaker 6: me that I felt the sense that if we are
• 57:02
  Speaker 6: not going to get answers, if this president continues to
• 57:07
  Speaker 6: obstruct an investigation by telling his former White House counsel
• 57:10
  Speaker 6: to not show up to the Judiciary Committee, then we
• 57:13
  Speaker 6: have a serious problem. And after several hearings... after having
• 57:17
  Speaker 6: Hope Hicks come and have that private interview with her,
• 57:22
  Speaker 6: I left that day thinking, we have to start an
• 57:27
  Speaker 6: impeachment inquiry. We need to get all the information, and
• 57:30
  Speaker 6: we have to allow the American public to be a
• 57:34
  Speaker 6: part of this process, to understand everything that has been
• 57:37
  Speaker 6: going on. I tried as best as I could to
• 57:40
  Speaker 6: not make it a partisan issue at all. I was
• 57:42
  Speaker 6: trying to look at it in an objective way.
• 57:45
  Speaker 5: But being.
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: from Latin America, having left a country where I've seen
• 57:51
  Speaker 6: what happens when a man grabs onto power and is
• 57:55
  Speaker 6: full of corruption and starts to circumvent other branches of
• 57:59
  Speaker 6: government to get his way. I have seen those qualities
• 58:04
  Speaker 6: in this president. And I can tell you, for those
• 58:07
  Speaker 6: of you that have never lived in another country or
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: that have been born here, this country can change and
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: it can change very quickly by someone like this president.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about what the other side has been doing,
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: because I do think what we've seen is I think
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of Democrats in some of these hearings, whether
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: it was Michael Cohen or Robert Mueller, that we've seen,
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: I think Democrats try to get some answers out of
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: these hearings. And there's some, you know, I think we'd
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: all recognize some performative partisanship there on both sides. But
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: What I found fascinating in watching some of these sort
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: of blockbuster hearings is very few Republicans publicly on these
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: committees seem interested in using them as an opportunity to
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: gather facts. I think in one hearing you saw someone
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: like Justin Amash actually do something as an exception that
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: proved the rule before he switched parties, legitimately trying to
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: suss out some information. Will Hurd in the hearings with Mueller,
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: I think, tried to do the same behind closed doors.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: Is that partisan divide as obvious? Do you believe your
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Republican colleagues recognize the obvious conclusions of the Mueller report
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: when nobody's watching?
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: You would think that there are some that would see
• 59:21
  Speaker 6: what we're all seeing after reading that report. I can
• 59:25
  Speaker 6: honestly tell you that I've had conversations with some of
• 59:28
  Speaker 6: my Republican colleagues, and you hear the same talking points
• 59:31
  Speaker 6: that you hear from this president, that there's no obstruction,
• 59:34
  Speaker 6: there's no collusion, that this is just a political witch hunt.
• 59:39
  Speaker 6: And I hate repeating it, but that's what they say.
• 59:41
  Speaker 6: And I, at this moment, under the Republican leadership in
• 59:46
  Speaker 6: the House, Kevin McCarthy, and his style and the words
• 59:51
  Speaker 6: that I hear from my colleagues in the Judiciary Committee, unfortunately,
• 59:55
  Speaker 6: I have seen absolutely no courage from any of my
• 59:58
  Speaker 6: colleagues to stand up to this president or just to
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 6: have the basic hunger to understand the facts of what
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 6: exactly happened and to protect our country from further interference
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 6: or protect our country from a president that is using
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 6: the White House and the seat to enrich himself, to
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 6: work only for himself, and he's not doing it for
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 6: the betterment of our country or for the people that
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 6: he's supposedly representing.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: So, you know, I don't want to dwell on it
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: too much because I think, you know, we come back
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: to this place, well, they're simply not willing to see
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: or not willing to admit what we all see as
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: being obvious. But I do find it I mean, you
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: deal with these people behind closed doors. I mean, what
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: we've seen on the Intelligence Committee, on the Judiciary Committee,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: is a feeling as though that the kind of comedy
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: that used to exist has broken down, that there's not,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: you know, we've seen blistering speeches directed at the Republicans
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: toward you and your Democratic colleagues for even conducting these hearings.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: And it sounds like what you're saying is even behind
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: closed doors, that that partisanship is not less. It's not
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: just for the cameras. There really is a refusal to
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: acknowledge what's going on.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: That's the fact.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 6: And I have spoken with the ranking member, Collins, Representative Collins,
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 6: after some of the hearings. And there was a moment
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 6: that I actually went to him to compliment him on
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 6: a couple of things that he said, that there's all
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 6: this work that we need to do, that we keep
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 6: having these hearings, but that we should be working on bills.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 5: And I went to him and I said... I agree
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: with you. I want you to know that I agree
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 5: with what you were saying.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 6: There's a lot of work to be done, but we
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 6: can't get to our work if the witnesses are not
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 6: appearing before us. If we're not getting the facts that
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 6: we need, don't you agree that we need to have
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 6: these witnesses? And he did agree with me on that.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 6: But then he went back to, you know, this is
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 6: all theater, but he makes it theater. I don't know
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 6: if you've seen the hearings. They make it theater. They
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 6: start saying things that I mean, it's incredible the things
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 6: that they come up with. And I sit next to
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 6: my really good friend, Veronica Escobar, and there are so
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 6: many moments that we have to just support each other
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 6: because they use every opportunity. We can have Mueller right
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 6: in front of us, and they'll go back to criminalizing immigrants.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 6: They'll go back to, you know, all Democrats are socialists,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 6: which is not true, and to distract from the fact
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 6: that we have a president that has committed obstruction of justice.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: So your colleague, Chairman Nadler, said on CNN that what
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: the committee is currently engaged in is formal impeachment proceedings.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: I believe that's the first time he's acknowledged that or
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: suggested that. Do you agree with him?
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 6: I think that we have been going through the impeachment
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 6: inquiry process and we haven't formally called it that, but
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 6: I do agree with him. The court documents state that.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 6: The subpoena enforcement that we brought to the courts a
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 6: couple of days ago state that this is part of
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 6: our impeachment proceedings. And at this point, with all the
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 6: evidence that we have seen and the information that we've
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 6: gotten from the special counsel, I agree with him.
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: So we're in it.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: We are right in the middle of it. Look, this
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: is no laughing matter. I don't mean to diminish.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 6: The fact that this is a very serious situation. And
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 6: I really hope that the people... all over the country
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: start paying close attention to the facts, that maybe they
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 6: shouldn't be watching all these 24-hour news channels, and maybe
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 6: they should start reading and getting information from PBS or.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Podcasts.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, your podcast.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 6: They should be listening to you, John, more often. But
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 6: it's important for people to start paying attention. This is
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 6: our country, and we need to take it back.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: Now, there's been, I think... question about sort of the
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: timeline here, because on the one hand, I think you've
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: seen some members pushing for an impeachment inquiry to move faster, others,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: including the speaker, saying, you know, I want to wait
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: till we have the strongest hand possible. I want to
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: wait till we have all the information at our disposal.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: Do you worry that if this now formal impeachment inquiry
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: doesn't take place in the fall, that we'll have missed
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: the opportunity that that if we are pushing into 2020,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: people will start to say, well, we have an election
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: to determine the outcome here.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 6: I think that, you know, justice has no timing and
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 6: that we really have to think about this moment as
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 6: a determining point for our democracy, that we need to
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 6: go through whatever steps we have to take to get
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 6: all the information and then take action, whatever that may be,
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 6: whether it's recommending a vote on the House floor or not.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 6: I mean, the fact that we're going through an impeachment
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 6: inquiry right now doesn't necessarily mean we're going to recommend
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 6: a vote on the floor. But I think that we
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 6: have to follow those steps. We can't be bound only
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 6: by the political timing of the 2020 election.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 5: Of course, it's important.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 6: Of course, we all think about that. I'm not saying
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 6: that we don't. But The most important thing here is
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 6: the future of our democracy. And I personally believe that
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 6: we have to take a stance and we have to
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 6: do what is right, regardless of the timing, regardless of
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 6: what month in the calendar year we are at.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: We have to follow those steps.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: So there are a lot of Democrats from districts like
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: yours who are worried that saying you're for impeachment will
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: make it harder to win reelection. Are you worried about that?
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: And what do you say to colleagues that have that fear?
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 6: It's a conversation that I've had with many of my
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 6: friends in the new freshman class. Personally, well, first of all,
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 6: everybody has to make their own decision for their district.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 6: They got elected by their community and there's a reason
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 6: why they're representing their community. So they have to make
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 6: those decisions on their own. I personally feel that if
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: my community understands why I'm making those decisions, if they
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 6: know that I have the best intentions, that it's not
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 6: a purely political.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: Game that I'm.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 6: Playing, that I will earn their trust and I will
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 6: earn their support. I have a very diverse district. It's
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 6: a majority Hispanic district. Most of the people in my district,
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 6: more than half of them were born in a different country.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 6: I was born in Ecuador. I have these conversations with
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 6: them all the time when I'm in my community. And
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 6: I explain to them that what we're seeing in this
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: president is the same thing that we've seen in Latin
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: America and Central America and why we've come to the
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 6: United States and why we have to be so vigilant
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 6: in guarding our democracy.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: So one last question on this. It sounds to me
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: that the case you're making is a moral case, that
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: there's a moral obligation that Democrats have, regardless of the
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 2: political calendar, regardless of questions about what would happen in
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: swing districts, that because of the risk to our democracy,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: we have a moral obligation to to at least use
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: our power to conduct an impeachment inquiry, even if it
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: may not lead to conviction in the Senate. It's the
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: right thing to do. And yet you have colleagues that
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: don't see it that way, that aren't yet responding to
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: the moral challenge in the same way. Does that frustrate you?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 6: But I keep in mind the fact that they're not
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 6: in the Judiciary Committee. If you look at everyone in
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 6: our committee, we're all on the same page. But it's
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 6: because we've spent multiple hours in hearings and reading and
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: talking to the attorneys and understanding the facts. So I
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 6: think that that's part of it.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 5: I mean, I'm right in the middle of it.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 6: And many of my colleagues are not dealing with the
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 6: information that I'm dealing with on on a day to
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 6: day basis. It is frustrating in the sense that this
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 6: is my first term. So I was not a politician
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 6: before I got elected. Of course, now I can't say
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 6: that I'm not because I am a member of Congress.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 6: But I try to see everything that I'm doing for
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 6: the best interest of my community, not really thinking always
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 6: about the political consequence. Of course, I have to be
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 6: careful and think of everyone that I'm representing in Florida's 26.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 6: I have Republicans, I have independents, but I hope that
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 6: my community trusts the fact that I will do my
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 6: best to do the best thing for Florida's 26 districts.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 6: And if you explain yourself in that manner, which is
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 6: what I've said to some of my colleagues, then people
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 6: will know that that's why you're there.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 5: And it's not just for political reasons.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about let's talk about winning in Florida.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: What do you what do you see as what would
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: be the advice you'd be giving right now to Democrats
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: campaigning for what they should be saying to appeal to
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: win Florida in 2020?
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 6: The first thing that I have to say is they
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 6: have to pay close attention to the issues that affect
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 6: us the most. And I've seen a disregard for the
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 6: issues affecting Venezuela.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 5: We have a.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 6: Huge crisis in Venezuela. It's a narco regime. It's a
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 6: dictatorial narco, illegitimate. Maduro was elected in an illegitimate, I
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 6: can't say the word, you see the Ecuadorian coming out, election.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 6: And we have to take a strong stance against that
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 6: because it's affecting the entire hemisphere. We've seen now close
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 6: to 4 million Venezuelans flee the country. That number has
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 6: surpassed the Syrian refugee crisis that we saw in Syria.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 6: And I don't, I would like personally to hear the
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 6: Democratic presidential candidates address that issue. A lot of the
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: immigration issues that we have now in this country also
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 6: is because we've ignored so many problems that we've seen
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 6: in Central and in South America. And as someone being
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 6: from that area, I wish that this country would pay
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 6: attention to their neighbors and the issues affecting them because
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 6: we're interconnected here. When we talk about trade with Mexico
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 6: and Canada, we need to talk about issues that affect
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 6: the region as well.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 5: So that's one of them.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 6: But another issue that I think is extremely important that
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 6: I haven't heard enough of as well and that's important
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 6: in Florida is the effects of climate change. What are
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 6: the plans to address climate change immediately on day one
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 6: when you get into the White House? We have to
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 6: have a plan. And I want to hear more of
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 6: that instead of, you know, I think that what happens
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 6: is the media... starts directing the narrative in a way, right?
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 6: And it's always the far right and the far left issues. Well,
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 6: there are a lot of issues that we need to
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 6: talk about that everyday Americans worry about, but I'm not hearing.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 5: A whole lot about that.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems that in both the debates we've seen,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of the questions have been framed not around
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: sort of the larger challenge, but on some of the
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: kind of places with the greatest likelihood to lead Democrats
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: to take a very difficult position, whether it's on 1325
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: or climate mitigation and costs associated with that. Um, on immigration,
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: you know, I think we've seen some candidates, uh, Julian
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: Castro has led with his plan around, um, looking at
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: this in a broader way, looking at the challenges facing
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: central and South America, but the debate is largely focused
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: on stopping the worst actions of the Trump administration. Uh,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: Do you think that we're having enough of a larger conversation,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: not just about what will stop on immigration, but on
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: what we actually believe in terms of our broader policies
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: on immigration?
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 6: Are you talking about specific policy issues for immigration reform
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 6: or are you talking about what we've been seeing in
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 6: the border?
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: I'm talking about immigration reform, whether it's a pathway to
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: citizenship or what our border policy actually is. Yeah.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 6: It's such a complicated issue, and we've had the problem
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 6: of a broken immigration system for decades, which is why
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 6: we have so many undocumented immigrants living in the United
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 6: States today, because you wait, you apply, you go through
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 6: all the steps, and you wait for years to get
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 6: a green card or legal status or a permit or citizenship.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 6: So we have to address those issues right now. We
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 6: have to also address the issues crisis that we're seeing
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 6: at the border, we do have a crisis. And part
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 6: of the problem is that people are fleeing violence. They're
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 6: fleeing the effects of climate change. You know, in Guatemala,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 6: they can't farm their land. So a lot of the
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 6: people that we're seeing, they're literally starving because they can't
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 6: get access to basic necessities. And it's not going to
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 6: go away. So these problems are not going away anytime soon.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 6: So We have to find a compassionate and humane policy
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 6: to deal with the people that are coming for us
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 6: to help, you know, asking for help. We need, we
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 6: cannot at this moment now end all the asylum laws
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 6: that we've had in this country for decades. We can't
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 6: turn back people that are asking for a refugee status.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 6: That's not the right way to address this issue. That's
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 6: making it much worse. Separating families is definitely not a
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 6: good idea and it's, the most hypocritical policy sense that
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 6: I have heard from this administration, from these conservatives that
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 6: are so worried about family values, but yet they have
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 6: absolutely no regard for the fact that there are children
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 6: that right now are crying.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 5: This gets me every time.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 6: I've met many, many kids in Homestead in my community
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 6: that have been separated from their families.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 5: I'm a mom. It's unacceptable.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: What did you think when you saw that ICE in
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: the wake of El Paso conducted a raid and basically
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: rounded up 600 people, sometimes leaving children behind without anyone
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: to take care of them?
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 6: This is a calculated response by this administration. I don't
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 6: want anyone to think that they didn't know exactly what
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 6: was about to happen in these farms. It takes a
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 6: lot of resources for these rates to occur, to actually
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 6: go in and take hardworking people, 600 of them, without
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 6: any information on whether they had kids. There were some
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 6: single moms that the kids didn't know where to go.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 6: What is it that we're doing and what are we becoming?
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 6: And my concern is that if this country doesn't start
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 6: standing up to basic human rights and and this president
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 6: is elected once again in 2020, we are going to
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 6: enter a very dark, dark road in the future of America.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: So, you know, these are difficult issues and this has
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: been a really hard period of time. You know, when
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: we first spoke, it was when you were running and
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: you were trying this, you know, to kind of win
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: this seat against the odds. You won You're now representing
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: your district. What has been the most surprising part about
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: coming to Congress for the first time? What don't people understand?
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 5: There are a few things. First of all, it's a very.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: You.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 5: Work seven days a week. You never disconnect.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 6: It's very difficult to have any sort of balance. And
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 6: I have a family, and I'm constantly trying to find
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 6: a way to have that balance with my kids and
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 6: my husband.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: And so.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 5: You have to have a good support group.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 6: And I've become very good friends with so many amazing
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 6: colleagues that I have. But I think one of the
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 6: most surprising things, and I'm going to be very honest
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 6: with you, John, has been seeing some of those colleagues
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 6: that I call my friends vote sometimes.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 5: Against immigrants.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 6: And I've seen it. And it's been heartbreaking, really. I've
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 6: taken it personally because of me, because of my community.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 6: And so I wonder, the question that you asked before,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 6: are we doing this for political reasons or are we
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 6: going to stand up for what is right? And I
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 6: think that's been the most surprising part for me.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: Congresswoman Mukherjee Powell, thank you so much for being here.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: Thank you, John.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: Thanks to the Congresswoman for joining us today. Tommy, have
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: a good week in Iowa. And we'll all talk to
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 4: you on Thursday.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: We'll see you at the Greek. Thanks, guys. See you soon.
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: See you at the Greek. Follow me on Instagram at
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: Tommy Vitor. Oh, my goodness. I'm learning a new medium, Lovett.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Support me. Oh, yeah.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: Lovett's Instagram is private.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know why. I'm only trying to have me
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: take it public. Oh, no. Wouldn't want to see some
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: boring dog pictures that are not on Twitter. He says. Bye.
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: Says the guy who only posts dog pictures.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:17:08
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• 1:17:10
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• 1:17:14
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• 1:17:17
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• 1:17:20
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• 1:17:21
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