Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #348 - For Azeroth!: "Jedith Rising"

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#348 - For Azeroth!: "Jedith Rising" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

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Hey, I'm Jeddeth and you're listening to For Azeroth Victory
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for the Forsaken. For Lauderon.
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For the Kirintor. For Pandaria.
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For calendar. To the burning region.
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For Gilnaeus but has not died. For the Lich King, For the
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Sindora. For the Alliance, for the Horn,
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for Azeroth. Hello and welcome to another
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special episode of For Azeroth. We are covering all things
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Midnight. With the release of Gamescon and
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all of the information coming out, I've been going to the
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experts to find out what they're talking about and what they
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think of what all the information we got.
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So today I am here with Jenneth, the Demon Hunter extraordinaire.
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Hello, Jennif, and how are you? Hello, thanks for having me.
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I'm doing quite well. It's getting starting to be a
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little chillier here in Canada. It's been like raining all day.
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So it's kind of been a gloomy day.
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But yeah, happy to be here and looking forward to to talking
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about some Demon Hunter stuff. Truth be told, we're pretty
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close in it geographically. I'm yeah, I'm just outside of
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Toronto, so I've been dealing with the the rain and
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everything, but we are here to talk about something a little
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bit darker, which is the new Demon Hunter specialization.
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Of course, Demon hunters in general.
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For people who don't know you, could you tell us a little bit
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about your history with World of Warcraft and content creation?
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Yeah, my name is Jeddith. I've been streaming on Twitch
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and making YouTube content for probably like 7 years now.
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I make guides and like educational content mostly
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around Demon Hunter, but sometimes I branch out and cover
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some other things. Something I've been trying
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lately is to make videos that are a bit more concise and like
2:00
clear language and easy to understand.
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Because I do think that, you know, in this day and age, it's
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not just the zoomers who are having their attention spans
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diminished. I think all of us, even myself,
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I mean, believe it or not, I am 35 years old and I can, I can
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say that my attention span is dwindling away.
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So the new thing I've been trying is making a bit more, you
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know, honed in concise videos. And I think just out of respect
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for for people to like, I think people want to find the
2:28
information they're looking for and then get back to actually
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playing the game. They don't want to sit there and
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watch a 45 minute long video when that video, that
2:35
information could be portrayed in 10 minutes.
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So yeah, that's been what I've been doing lately.
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I mythic raid do a lot of mythic plus.
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I got Hall of Fame a couple times in the past.
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Never pushed for title for Mythic Plus but hey, who knows
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what the future holds. OK.
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And so how long have you been playing World of Warcraft?
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Oh, wow. I started playing, I don't know
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the exact year, but it was around the end of The Burning
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Crusade. I played EverQuest for the
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majority of my life before that. I started EverQuest when I was
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nine years old, and I played that well into my teens.
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And that's kind of like where I learned how to, you know, read
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and and speak to people. And then all my other friends in
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high school, they started playing Wow.
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And I was like the odd one out playing EverQuest.
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So they eventually convinced me to, to hop over and I was a
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little hesitant at first. I was a little resistant.
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I was like, wow, this game looks like it's for kids.
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It's, it's a completely different style.
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But yeah, I, it was just nice to play with friends instead of
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playing alone. So that's how I got hooked in.
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And yeah, it was around the end of the Burning Crusade.
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I think the Black Temple had just come out when I started, so
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it's been a while. And so that kind of is like the
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Ilidan expansion and everything. Is that what led you into Demon
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Hunters? Like what?
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What was the attraction for demon hunters for you?
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Maybe subconsciously, yeah. I mean, demon hunters, they came
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out a lot later. But truthfully, the, the story,
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how I got into it is, is kind of underwhelming, but also kind of
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amusing. I was playing back then, I would
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just play random alts. I think I was playing a fury
4:16
warrior back then. I also had like a prop paladin.
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I never, I didn't play very seriously.
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I just made alts. I levelled them up and once they
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got to Max level, I, maybe I did LFR a couple times and then I
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made a new character. But at that point I had found a
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Guild. They were advertising.
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They were looking for players in, you know, general chat or
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whatever. And I somehow got involved with
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them. I was on a different server.
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I don't think I had a, a Max level character on there.
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And the easiest way for me to to start playing with them was to
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just create a Demon Hunter on their server, 'cause they start
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at a higher level. I forget what it was back then,
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but it started at a higher level.
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So I was able to just hop right in with them in a quicker amount
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of time than it would be to like, you know, transfer a
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character. Cause back then I, you know, I
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was a teenager, didn't have much money either.
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So I just made a Demon Hunter and it stuck since then.
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Yeah, very cool. And so now we are reaching like
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almost the third stage of your career where we've got a new
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Demon Hunter spec. And do you want to give us like
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a little bit of a rundown of this new Demon Hunter spec, the
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Devourer? Sure.
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I can give you as much information as I know.
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They haven't really given us all that much either.
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So there's a lot of speculation happening and some people are
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are kind of like going down one path and assuming what it might
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be and others are are going down the other.
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All that we know so far is that it's a mid range, which could
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meet a multitude of things we don't know.
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But it is a 1/3 spec who I guess is using void magic rather than
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fell magic. So purple instead of green and
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it's going to be ADPS spec. I know some people were hoping
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for a healer, but I think, you know, or wise, you know, flavor
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wise that doesn't quite make sense.
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But yeah, it's going to be a mid range DPS.
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There's spell casting involved. There's also melee combat
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involved. Your i-beam is now void Ray,
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which is like a a purple beam instead of a green one.
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Yeah, it's it's looking really cool.
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I'm excited for it because it's something new.
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And I think from what I'm understanding from the
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information that we've been given, it sounds like it's going
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to be a play style that isn't in the game in any other form so
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far. You know, we have Evokers that
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are, you know, supposed to be mid range, but they don't have
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that melee aspect as well. Devastation Evoker is a caster
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and they play from range. So I think like, it's going to
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be pretty unique, probably going to be pretty, it's going to
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divide the community probably a little bit, but that's always
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how it's been for Demon hunters. And, you know, we can talk about
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that a little later. But yeah, ultimately it's going
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to be pretty cool. I'm looking forward to it.
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It's purple instead of green. Sounds good to me.
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Yeah, I did like that analogy where it because it is that mid
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range the ability to be kind of close to that 25 yards where the
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Evokers are sitting, devastation augmentation sort of thing.
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That's that's one thing we have heard from the the developers
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that you can build it so that you are mostly staying that mid
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range. But there's also that ability to
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sort of jump in and out of melee, which I guess is sort of
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like they took the momentum build and sort of put it back in
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sort of this sort of way going to like Havoc as like that sort
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of analogy. Has momentum been something that
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have a players on a whole have enjoyed?
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Is this something where you think that if they slow it down,
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will you have like greater periods where you're in one
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place or another, it'll be more fun?
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Like what's your hopes in that kind of scenario?
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Yeah. I mean, that's kind of a loaded
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question because like I kind of alluded to a second ago, that's
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been one of the dividing factors in the Demon Hunter community
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for the longest time, right? We've had the the mover versus
8:13
the no mover camps. And you know, everyone wants to
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play havoc in their own way. I think the problem that the
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problem that we have right now is that the talent trees are
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designed in a way to cater to both of those people.
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But unfortunately, the way that we play video games nowadays is
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we pick the option that does the most damage.
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We pick the one that the robot tells us to pick that is doing
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the most damage on paper. And if you don't take that
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option, you're shamed. So realistically, even all those
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options are there. People aren't getting the choice
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to play the way that they want, which in turn just ends up
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hurting the, the one bill that we do end up playing because
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then half the the talents in our tree are completely disregarded
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because they're, you know, for a different play style.
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So it leads to some confusion, I think, and a lot of just like,
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like infighting between the community as to what's better,
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what's, you know, how things should be balanced, how things
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should be played. So I am a little cautious
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hearing about how this could work potentially with Devourer.
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If there is a lot of movement involved with the Devourer play
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style, you know, that comes with its own risks in terms of just
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like how you how do you deal with mechanics, how do those
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things work, you know, synergistically.
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And if there are two different play styles where one is more
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ranged and one is, you know, dipping in and out of melee, how
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do you balance those? Because one is definitely more
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dangerous than the other and there has to be that risk versus
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reward balancing between that. So I don't know.
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We're going to have to see. I'm a little cautious, but I'm
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holding off until we know more information.
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OK. So again, like because there's
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very little information known right now, a lot of this is
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going to be just like a speculating in your mind, would
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you want them to sort of move one of those camps out of the
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Havoc spec and transplanted into the Devourer spec so that if you
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are Devourer, then you are more along that momentum camp or vice
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versa? I think that would be the best
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way for them to do it, truthfully.
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That would open up a lot of doors for Havoc to just become
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something concrete, which it hasn't been for a long time.
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And you know, if people like that, you know, movement for
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damage type of gameplay, they can go one way or the other,
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whether that's with Devourer or with Havoc.
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But just I do think it needs to be split.
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I think that would be very healthy.
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Will they do it? I don't know.
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Because the the strange thing is Havoc, Havoc is keeping both of
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the hero talent trees, is keeping Felsgard and it's
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keeping El Draki Reaver. So those are all very designed
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in a way where they've been, they've been put together with
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the idea of movement for damage being available.
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So some of those things might need to be changed.
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And then we don't know like what the Devourer hero talent tree is
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going to look like. The Annihilator one.
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All we've been told about that is that we're, we're pulling
11:24
down big comets from the sky. So we we don't know what that
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looks like either. So it, it, it's going to depend
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on a lot of things. I personally would like them to
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split it. Will they?
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I don't know. Well, sort of looking at havoc
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through the course of of the War Within, how is its relationship
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being with its hero talents? Have they both been viable?
11:48
Has one being like the Mythic Plus versus the raid spec?
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Or has it been where one spec or one hero talent is like
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predominantly the best one throughout anything you do?
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Yeah. Do you have like a Demon Hunter
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character or an alt? Do you play anything at all?
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I do play Demon Hunter, but I've been in the Vengeance camp, I've
12:12
been tanking it up, and I am also a person who bucks trends,
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so I've been playing with the Fell Scar despite the fact that
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like, it is not the preferred 1. So I'm going to be losing that.
12:24
That's just like I'm going to have to reinvent my Demon Hunter
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come the introduction of Devourer, But because it's been
12:32
an alt I haven't felt so slavishly to follow what the
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meta is. Right, OK, yeah.
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So I mean, I can speak more on Havoc because that's what I
12:42
focus on. I I don't really play Vengeance
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all that much, though I I probably should because there's
12:46
a whole nother audience that I could be tapping into.
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But yeah, I could speak on, you know, Havoc and and it's
12:52
experience so far. The two hero talents, I think
12:57
have ultimately been a they've been a miss, I think.
13:01
So again, it's it's the, the split, the the division of, you
13:05
know, we have one hero talent tree that is incredibly simple
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and that's the Felscard 1. And that wasn't satisfactory for
13:12
a certain type of person that plays havoc Demon Hunter.
13:16
It was strange because it was focused on doing like big
13:19
uncapped AOE damage with demon surges at the start of the
13:21
expansion, but then it got target capped.
13:24
So the intention of that mechanic became a little
13:27
unclear. It also didn't have any like
13:30
unique visuals that the, you know, we were seeing all these
13:33
other hero talent trees like mages getting these Phoenix
13:36
Phoenix's that they were summoning or, you know, all this
13:38
other stuff. And Felsgard didn't have
13:40
anything. So we eventually got something
13:44
like I think it was halfway through the 1st season of the
13:46
War Within and it's like a little puff of green smoke.
13:49
It's, I guess it's something, but it just felt really
13:52
underwhelming. So that's the, that's the one
13:54
hero talent tree. And then we have the other one,
13:57
Eldraki Reaver. And yes, that is how you
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pronounce it. By the way, there is a voice
14:02
line in the game that says it that way.
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I know everyone else says El Dracci Reaver and you know, keep
14:07
saying it that way if you want, but the in game voice says it
14:10
this way anyways. That one is like miles ahead in
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terms of complexity. So obviously people don't like
14:18
that either because it's the whole mover versus non mover
14:21
thing. People like simple and they also
14:23
like complex. So yeah, like I I said, it just
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it's like a, a direct reflection of of havoc.
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All these things pop up, whether it's mover versus non mover, our
14:36
two hero talent trees being completely different.
14:38
It's all kind of the same thing where they're 2 completely
14:41
separate things trying to cater to two different types of
14:43
players. And neither of them are getting
14:45
it right. They're not getting the
14:47
attention that they need to actually excel and and succeed
14:50
in that, in that intention. So it's hard because I feel like
15:02
they've tried to make some changes to it recently.
15:04
I can't even say recently. Maybe like over the past two
15:07
seasons, there's been some changes here and there.
15:10
But in the most recent season, I'll Draki Weaver was given a
15:15
tier set that's pretty broken and that is pushing us towards a
15:20
unique sort of a damage profile, which is funnel damage.
15:25
There's not many specs in the game that that have that.
15:27
There's like a maybe two or three, maybe 4.
15:31
But we're really, really good at that right now because of our
15:33
tier set. So it's put us into an OK place
15:37
in terms of mythic plus and keys.
15:40
But in raid, we're still pretty, pretty lacking.
15:46
And yeah, like before that our our class tree went over an
15:51
entire year without having any changes to it.
15:54
There were a few changes to the spec tree here and there, but
15:57
there were very few and far between.
16:00
But now, I mean, looking back on it, it was probably because most
16:03
of the devs attention was going into designing Devourer.
16:06
I would imagine so yeah. I mean the hero talents in the
16:11
War Within I think have been ultimately a miss.
16:16
I'm hoping they've had enough time now going into a new
16:18
expansion where they can redesign some of these things.
16:21
I think they are going to have to redesign some of them just
16:23
to, you know, work with with Devour or whichever one it's
16:27
getting. I can't remember if they
16:29
flip-flopped a couple times, whether it's they're getting
16:31
fell scarred or Ari don't even know anymore.
16:34
They're getting scarred, no longer fell.
16:36
Scarred. Because yeah, yeah.
16:39
So the question there is, right that the hero talent tree
16:42
functions around demon surges, which is an explosion around
16:45
your character. How's that going to work when
16:47
you're playing out ranged? They're going to have to change
16:51
something there. Or maybe they only proc when you
16:53
go in and you do your melee thing.
16:55
I don't know. We're going to have to see.
16:57
I almost want to say that it'll be probably be like the cloak
17:00
where it just just shoots at whatever your current target is
17:03
and blows around and blows around that.
17:05
But again, we're we're in speculation territory, honestly
17:11
speaking to you today, like a lot of what's been coming up is
17:15
that schism within within havoc demon hunters like that, that
17:20
tube camp sort of thing. And maybe this is much like when
17:24
we had guardian and Pharaoh split up so that they could be
17:27
healthier trees. We could see that.
17:30
And like maybe that is the hope that with that the community is
17:33
looking for. But another part that you talked
17:36
about is how it's almost as if because this was on the horizon,
17:42
the team wasn't really looking at like what was happening on
17:45
live. Can you tell us a little bit
17:47
about like how Demon Hunter has been performing or both in like
17:54
numbers but also mostly enjoyment throughout the War
17:57
Within? Yeah, it's, I think that's a
18:02
personal thing. You know, some people really
18:04
enjoy playing havoc still. Some people have been having the
18:06
worst time ever. I think the hero talent trees
18:09
definitely contribute to that in both directions.
18:12
If, if you're talking to somebody who has been playing
18:17
Demon Hunter for a while at on a casual level and now in the War
18:21
Within, they're forced to play Aldraki Reaver, which is a bit
18:24
more complex than probably what they're used to.
18:27
I would imagine their enjoyment of, of that class is of that
18:31
spec is going to go down quite a bit.
18:33
They might get frustrated because the cognitive load of
18:36
that, of that hero talent tree is definitely a lot higher than
18:39
Felsgard. And yeah, if, if, if you're that
18:43
type of player and you are, you know, resorting to playing
18:47
Felsgard purely out of personal preference and that's how you
18:51
enjoy playing. And you're like I said, you're
18:53
shamed for playing that you're, you're looked upon, people look
18:56
you up in your logs and you're like, oh, why did, why did he
18:58
play Felsgard on this fight? And clearly should have played
19:01
the other one. It's an uncomfortable situation.
19:05
So I, I think even on a grander scale, kind of like what I
19:09
mentioned, Havoc started off being very simple.
19:12
If you think back to like BFAI, think that's where a lot of
19:15
people hopped onto it, but it was a, it was so simple back
19:19
then and it's been progressively getting harder and harder and
19:22
harder throughout the expansions.
19:24
And I feel like now I feel like we're at a boiling point with it
19:28
where either they're going to fix the issue with Devour or
19:35
people are just going to be fed up and they're going to, they're
19:38
going to abandon ship and they're going to create a rat
19:40
paladin or something. You know, I think that's where
19:43
we're at now. I mean not until met paladins
19:47
get double digit buffs, but we'll see.
19:51
They got their 5%. They're OK, OK, they're good.
19:54
They're. Good.
19:55
Well you just mentioned about complexity in that complexity
19:59
cap, a lot of people deal with that through the use of add-ons,
20:03
through the use of WE cores. Has that been the situation with
20:07
Demon Hunters having to have WE cores to track a number of
20:10
different things? How?
20:13
Are they supposed to function if Blizzard's now looking to disarm
20:17
our add-ons? Yeah, I mean, that's a, that's a
20:20
valid concern. I I think not even just for
20:23
Havoc, but for for every class. Like there's some things that
20:27
are unrealistic to be able to, to track to player class at a,
20:32
at an optimal level for Havoc in particular.
20:35
I mean, if, if you're playing, if you're playing AR, you're
20:38
track. If you're playing AR in raid,
20:40
you're tracking your essence Brake, which is a four second
20:44
debuff window that you're putting on enemies. 4 seconds.
20:46
That's not very short, or that's not very long, that's very
20:48
short. Then you have your inertia.
20:51
If you're deciding, deciding to play that, that's a damage amp
20:55
that you put on yourself, that's 5 seconds.
20:58
Then if you're playing a fire inside, you have up to five
21:02
immolation or a buffs all running at the same time,
21:05
expiring at different times, which is important because when
21:08
they expire, your rage fire explodes, which is like big AOE
21:12
damage. So you want to make sure you're
21:13
hitting enough the right mobs with that.
21:16
You're also tracking how many soul fragments you've picked up
21:20
on the ground and when they're going to expire.
21:22
That's a kind of a new mechanic that was brought into play for
21:26
damage with Eldraki reverse. So you have to pick up six soul
21:29
fragments and that gives you your reverse glave, which is
21:32
like your your your key ability that you get with that hero
21:36
talent tree. So you're tracking that.
21:40
You're also tracking your initiative buff on yourself,
21:43
which is 5 seconds. So we have all these like little
21:46
short buffs and debuffs that unfortunately we have to line
21:51
them all up together. They all have to happen at the
21:54
same time. That's how you do your damage.
21:56
That's your big damage window. So like independently, those
22:00
things might be fine. Like tracking your essence brake
22:02
window for four seconds, sure, that's fine.
22:04
But then you're also doing all the other actions to to line all
22:09
these other things up and you're cutting into certain buffs and
22:13
debuffs like you're losing a second here because you're
22:14
trying to set something else up. I don't know if you've ever
22:18
tried to play, I'm sure you have.
22:20
You've tried to play on the PTR without add-ons and you're just
22:23
like looking at your buff, buff bar up at the top right.
22:26
And things are popping in and out of that so quickly and
22:29
things are getting reordered and rearranged.
22:32
There's no way you could track all of those things I just
22:34
mentioned while that's happening.
22:36
Absolutely no way. So I'm, I'm hopeful that, you
22:40
know, if Blizzard can properly implement like an allow and
22:45
block list for buffs and debuffs, that would make things
22:48
infinitely better. And if you're able to select
22:51
those things to go on to the, the name plates, the new name
22:54
plates that they're setting up, if they can do just a few of
22:57
those things, I think they'll, they'll have a lot of success
23:01
with this initiative of, you know, trying to replace add-ons
23:04
and and whatnot. But they're, they're very
23:06
crucial things. If they get those wrong, people
23:09
are going to be upset. So then looking towards this new
23:13
spec with the the Devourer Demon Hunter, I'm guessing that a good
23:18
portion of the community is looking to have something that
23:20
doesn't have such short window buffs that you're trying to
23:23
align. We can hope so I, I mean, I, I
23:25
do think I, I will say I'm, I'm hoping actually, I think they
23:30
did say this somewhere. They haven't fully announced it,
23:32
but I think that their mentality and how classes and specs
23:37
function and the, the overall complexity is going to change.
23:40
I think their approach to how these things work and how they
23:42
design classes is going to be changing with that in mind, with
23:46
the the idea that, you know, they have to simplify things in
23:49
a way that it makes a playable without external help.
23:54
And like making things simple doesn't necessarily mean like a
24:01
bad thing. I think if people hear that,
24:05
that term or you know, hear me say, or anyone else say they're
24:08
making things easier, I think all they plan on doing is just
24:12
pulling it back beyond the threshold of, of where proper
24:17
play is only possible with external help.
24:20
I think we're far beyond that right now and that's why we need
24:23
all these weak cores and add-ons.
24:25
But if they can just pull that back a little bit where there's
24:27
still the challenge in playing your class in spec, but it's not
24:30
completely impossible. I think that's what their intent
24:34
is going into the expansion. And I'm very curious to see just
24:39
the types of changes they make to to accommodate that.
24:43
It is a refrain that I've heard fairly often and people looking
24:48
for them to sort of, I think the term that I like is
24:51
concentrating the fun so that you have a few things that are
24:54
very important and you get to enjoy.
24:56
Yeah, absolutely. That's a good way to put it,
24:59
actually. The other spec, well, not
25:04
speculation, but the other little bit of information that
25:06
we've received about Devourer's rotation is this entire thing
25:10
with their void metamorphosis, that it is something that like
25:15
you build up the energy and then you get it.
25:18
It's not on a a set time that you have it for, but you're
25:22
trying to stay in this form as long as possible to keep using
25:26
the finisher that becomes available.
25:28
A lot of people have likened this to rendered to madness that
25:32
shadow priests had where you are just trying to hold off the the
25:37
inevitable. What are the thoughts, concerns
25:40
or like pros that people are thinking about this just from
25:45
like what information we have so far?
25:48
I've heard a lot of things I've heard some concern about.
25:54
Well, that mechanic in particular, Surrender to madness
25:57
is like the, the big comparison that people make.
26:01
I think that certain mechanic can work in a multitude of ways
26:06
and comparing it one to one with surrender to madness, if it's,
26:08
if you're getting a negative vibe from that, that thought, I
26:11
don't think that's fair yet because it could be much easier
26:15
to extend your your void meta form.
26:17
We don't know we, we don't know anything truthfully.
26:21
So, but I, I like the idea of it.
26:24
I think it's something new. Like, I don't know about you,
26:26
but I, I've found that Wow combat has become pretty
26:32
homogeneous over the years. It's all builder spender, you
26:35
know, you're all, whether it's energy or, you know, soul
26:39
fragments or combo points or whatever you're building up and
26:42
then you spend them. I, I think this does that also
26:46
in a sense, but it's a different spin on it.
26:49
And I'm just, I'm open to, to new things.
26:53
I'm open to things that may or may not vibe with me, but it's
26:57
not all about me. You know, there's going to be
26:58
people who love it. There's going to be people who
27:01
hate it. If you hate it, it's not for
27:02
you. And you can still play havoc.
27:04
If you love it, awesome. Subscribe to my channel.
27:06
But it's, I think we have to hold off judgement until, until
27:12
we actually know how it's going to function.
27:14
I think it could be cool though. Yeah, I mean, I was a big fan of
27:19
the surrender to Madness. I mean, not like them dying at
27:22
the end. They like I felt that that was a
27:24
little a little much. But I my biggest concern about
27:29
this and again, it's something that I am holding off until like
27:32
I actually play play. It is not what it feels like in
27:37
the void form metamorphosis, but what it feels like outside of
27:41
the void form metamorphosis. Because if that if so much is
27:44
concentrated in it, then you feel almost worthless when
27:49
you're not in your metamorphosis.
27:52
And something I'm going to link in the show notes and something
27:56
I do recommend anybody to do is look at your latest video on
28:00
this where you specifically say like, hey, if you are strong
28:03
inside of your cooldowns, what do you look like outside of your
28:06
cooldowns in your mind? What do you think are ways that
28:10
could this could at least be remedied?
28:13
I think the the easiest way is just to spend less time outside
28:16
of it. You know that you make a
28:18
fairpoint that and that's kind of what Havoc suffers with.
28:21
Now if you're playing Felsgard in particular, like your time
28:24
outside of your demon form, you're hitting like a wet noodle
28:26
until you can get back in demon form.
28:29
But if they just reduce the time it takes to get into your
28:34
powerful form and that solves the issue, you know, we don't
28:36
know how long it's going to take to get back into void meta.
28:40
We don't know how long we're going to be able to stay in void
28:43
meta. You know, how many souls does it
28:45
take to get into it? Could be 3, it could be 10.
28:49
We don't know. 10 would suck. 10 might cause some problems.
28:52
If it's three, it might not be so bad.
28:57
So I think by the sounds of it, by the sounds of what we've been
29:02
told, we're going to be spending a lot of time in that void meta
29:05
form. So I think they've learned their
29:09
lesson from havoc and I'm hoping, I'm hoping just like you
29:15
are, I'm sure that it's not going to be a blunder and and
29:18
they they do the right thing. It it's if you have a the Demon
29:23
Hunter alter, humane Demon Hunter, you can see an attempt
29:26
at remedying this problem in the Felsgard hero talent tree.
29:29
I think it's on the right hand side where it's, I think
29:33
increasing your chaos strike damage outside of meta or you're
29:37
just your, I don't know what it is, but it's increasing your
29:39
damage outside of meta. And that is to to sort of like
29:43
fix that problem that you're talking about.
29:45
But then on the off side, on the off split, we also have in the
29:48
spec tree talents that keep us in meta more often.
29:54
So the more time we spend in meta, the more time that talent
29:58
in our hero talent tree is completely useless.
30:01
So this is what I mean by they're trying to like they're
30:04
trying to cater to two different play styles and they're just
30:09
constantly throwing Band-Aid fixes at us.
30:12
Like in our spec tree, we have talents that reduce our threat
30:17
or that, you know, it's giving us reduced, I think it's reduced
30:21
physical damage or something or 4% extra verse.
30:25
And those are those are put in there because we were so
30:28
squishy. We were having issues just
30:30
staying alive as Adps and those remedy fixes, those Band-Aid
30:35
fixes are taking up entire talent nodes in our spec tree.
30:39
Like that type of thing. You shouldn't be in our spec
30:41
tree that if anything put it in the class tree, but I know that
30:44
would cause problems because then vengeance gets it as as
30:46
well. But like these Band-Aid fixes
30:49
shouldn't be in our spectry. Those should be damage in our
30:52
spectry, not reduce threat. OK.
30:58
So then just to sort of round out the conversation in
31:01
midnight, we're getting a bunch of new talent points.
31:04
We're getting three that go into the class tree.
31:07
We're getting another three that will be in the hero talent and
31:12
of course 4 in our spectry, which if they want us to put
31:17
that in the apex talent, right. In terms of the spectry for
31:24
Havoc, what would you say would be a good focus for the Apex
31:30
talent? Good question.
31:37
So if it's in, if it's in the spectry, it has to be neutral to
31:43
it has to be neutral from a hero talent tree.
31:47
So I would imagine it has to be i-beam.
31:53
I-beam or Immolation aura, because if they go glaive that's
31:59
going to be catering to Ari think yeah, I think like flavor
32:08
wise it would have to be I-beam. OK, i-beam is really powerful
32:14
already. So yeah, I don't know.
32:19
That's a tough one. I'm very curious to see.
32:23
All right, what about the hero trees?
32:26
Yeah, So the hero trees, I hope for Havoc's sake, I hope they
32:31
don't change AR because that's what's giving us our our, our
32:35
niche sort of spot in, in damage.
32:38
Is that the funnel damage? So I think that is going to be
32:43
what is able to differentiate Havoc from Devour is having that
32:48
that niche damage profile, because there's a lot of
32:51
situations where that is very, very valuable in mythic plus,
32:54
it's super valuable in raid. If there is, you know, a a big
32:58
boss and then a bunch of little ads that come out.
33:00
If you're able to funnel damage off those little ads into the
33:03
the main boss and do a lot of single target damage, super
33:06
valuable. So that is something that could
33:09
set apart Havoc from Devourer. So I I hope they don't change
33:14
that in terms of Felsgard or scarred.
33:17
Now they I don't think it's I don't know.
33:22
God, it's so tough because like I said, there are those like
33:25
weird things in the talent tree where it's doing more damage
33:27
outside of outside of your meta, which I don't think should be
33:31
there. The the demon surge mechanic
33:35
might need to change like we said.
33:40
You think it needs a rework entirely because based on what
33:43
you're saying it, it might need more attention than just another
33:46
row of talents. I think so, yeah.
33:49
That's the other thing too. Like, that's a good point.
33:51
We're getting an entire it's like a new column, right, Of
33:55
four talents in the hero trees. I believe it's 3 for the hero.
34:00
Trees. OK, yeah, I mean, that's just
34:03
like packing more power into and into all of these things.
34:08
And that could be problematic too, right?
34:10
Like we've or even maybe defensively, it could be
34:14
defensive stuff. Like there's some defensive
34:15
things in the AR tree that we really rely on defensively like
34:19
we have in the AR tree. There's it's a choice node where
34:24
you're either getting a shield for a certain amount of healing
34:28
that you get from your soul fragrance that you pick up, or
34:32
there's another one that gives you a 10% shield every time you
34:35
press Fell Blade. Those are pretty impactful.
34:38
Those are, are big defensive nodes in your tree.
34:42
And again, I feel like those are, I don't want to call those
34:46
ones Band-Aid fixes because they're not quite that, but
34:49
they're these things that if we didn't have, I think we'd be in
34:52
very, very rough shape, you know, in, in a lot of different
34:56
ways. So yeah, I do think maybe I'm
35:00
just hopeful. Maybe I'm, I'm like wanting new
35:03
stuff. So I'm saying, hey, yeah, this
35:04
needs a rework. Maybe it doesn't, maybe I'm
35:08
exaggerating, but I would love to see, I would love to see
35:10
reworks on, on a lot of things. Yeah, it's the opportunities
35:14
there. Like they've said they don't
35:16
want to do those big types, those big swooping changes,
35:19
patch to patch or in the middle of a patch, those types of
35:23
things are reserved for new expansions.
35:26
So now's the time to do it. OK.
35:29
And then the class tree is a different story.
35:33
You're getting three more talent points, but they're not they're
35:36
not adding anything to there is for.
35:40
So for that one, are the three points are going to allow DPS
35:46
demon hunters to like spec into stuff that were pain points
35:50
before or is it really superfluous for for you in your
35:53
class tree? I think there's a couple things
35:57
that would allow us. It would allow us to get the
36:03
choice note on darkness. You can either like make it last
36:07
a little bit longer or you reduce the cooldown on it.
36:11
It could allow it could allow us to take demon muzzle easier,
36:16
which is another defensive you take like 8% less magic damage
36:20
from whatever target was hit by your sigil.
36:23
It's something people end up taking in like high mythic plus
36:26
to to survive things. It could also mean that we take
36:31
all three capstones. So collective anguish, the hunt
36:35
and sigil of spite. I don't know if that would be
36:39
great for Felsgard to take sigil of spite because it's the the
36:46
for AR Sigilus spike gives us a lot of souls and we need like
36:49
soul fragments to use our reverse glaive.
36:51
So that's why it's really useful for that one.
36:53
But for Felsgard it's just some AOE damage I I guess and it
36:59
doesn't interact with Felsgard. So with Felsgard, Sigil of flame
37:04
converts to a new ability, sigil of doom I believe it's called
37:08
and that gives us a demon surge. So you if that's procking a
37:12
demon surge, you'd probably always prioritize that over
37:16
sigilos spite to press it. It's it's yeah, I'm not sure the
37:21
spec tree or sorry, the class tree.
37:22
There's there's some weird things where I have to pull it
37:26
up to see, but we're going into like APVP talent to get down to
37:30
one thing and everybody asks me like, hey, why are we putting
37:35
points into this? It's like a spectral site talent
37:38
and yeah, and nobody uses it. It's a PvP thing.
37:41
But the reason we put one point into that opposed to the other
37:45
option, which is a 2 point node into immolation or giving you
37:50
armor or something is because it's a one point investment
37:52
compared to a 2. So you put one point into the
37:56
Spectra site talent, it's completely useless.
37:58
You're wasting a point, but you can get down to the the point
38:01
below it that much easier and you have one point to spend
38:04
elsewhere. So yeah, it's, there's some
38:08
things that I think they need to reorganize in the class tree as
38:10
well. It's it's, there's a lot of
38:13
things, man. There's a lot of things.
38:15
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I definitely encourage people to go in, watch
38:21
your streams and ask you questions about like all the
38:25
nitty gritty of that. But I do have one last brain
38:28
teaser for you. OK.
38:30
As we head into midnight, we have the defensive claw back
38:36
that they said they wanted to do back at the start of the war
38:40
Within. You've been speaking a lot about
38:43
like how squishy DPS Stephen hunters can be.
38:47
Do you expect that you'll be hard hit by it, presumable like
38:51
de escalation of defensives? Or do you think that like demon
38:56
hunters are are meant to be, especially with devour, are
38:59
meant to just stay out of the trouble in general?
39:03
I think that may be the case for Devour for sure, because it
39:05
sounds like you're right. They're either playing out
39:08
ranged or they're dipping in quick and getting back out so
39:10
you can plan your movement accordingly and stay out of
39:12
mechanics and maybe not take certain hits.
39:15
As a pure melee. Sometimes getting hit is
39:19
inevitable. There's certain things that you
39:21
know, you just, you take it to the chin, you expect that you're
39:24
going to take it and you find ways around it.
39:27
I think if they're going to roll back some of those defenses, I
39:32
would imagine they're going to tune everything else around that
39:37
principle. We're not going to be taking as
39:40
much damage if we have less defensives, I would hope.
39:43
Otherwise we're just we're in a world of trouble.
39:46
But I think as long as we keep Blur, if Havoc keeps Blur and
39:53
maybe Blur gets a little bit of a buff, it's kind of weak right
39:56
now. We also have a lot of Leech.
40:01
We can't really forget that Havoc Demon hunters have a lot
40:03
of Leech and we have healing from our soul fragments.
40:08
So that takes you only so far, right?
40:11
Like healing and Leech isn't going to save you from one
40:14
shots. But I think we are starting to
40:16
move away from one shots being as much of a thing as they were
40:20
maybe back in Dragonfly. So I, I think, I think we'll be
40:26
OK, but it does very depend on the tuning of everything else.
40:33
If they're going to have, you know, bosses doing constant rot
40:36
damage or having, you know, one shot mechanics everywhere, I
40:40
think then we'll be in some trouble.
40:42
But like I said, if, if they're doing this, this whole
40:45
initiative of like, you know, removing add-ons, removing weak
40:48
auras, I think the whole game is going to have to change around
40:53
that idea. And I, I think they know that
40:55
they're, they're smart people over there.
40:57
As much as, you know, we love to, to rag on the devs and, and
40:59
whatever they're, they, they know what they're doing.
41:02
So I, I, I have my, I have my worries.
41:06
But I, I'm hopeful, yeah. OK, so if people want to like,
41:10
keep a praise of everything happening with demon hunters,
41:13
where can we find you? I'm on YouTube, primarily
41:18
youtube.com/jeddeth TV. I'm on
41:22
twitchtwitch.twitch.tv/jeddeth. its.tv, right?
41:28
Yeah, yeah, I'm on Twitter. I'm sorry, XX, the everything
41:33
app. I'm kind of all over the place.
41:37
If you play, if you're thinking of getting into Demon Hunter
41:40
because you want to play Devour and you want to like hop into
41:43
Demon Hunter early and get a feel for things.
41:45
I have a lot of resources online, a lot of video guides.
41:49
I have a havoc week or a pack up on Y go dot IO.
41:53
You can go grab that until they take week hours away.
41:57
Then you're out of luck. Yeah, I'm kind of everywhere.
41:59
Just search Jeddath. You'll find it all.
42:03
That's awesome. So I will encourage people to do
42:05
that and of course, put those in the show notes as well, but
42:08
that's going to be it for us today.
42:10
Until next time guys, may all your hits be good.