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Mastering SEO for Lawyers: How to Be Found and Chosen Online with Stephen Gregg · UnF*ck Your Legal Marketing

• Gary Johnson: Welcome to Unfuck Your Legal Marketing, the show where we get brutally honest about marketing, business, And the messy middle of making it all work. I'm Gary Johnson, marketing coach, strategist, and professional BS detector for attorneys and business owners who are tired of doing what everyone else does. Around here, we skip the fluff. We have real conversations, real insights, and maybe a few F-bombs along the way. So let's get into it. Most people think being found online is about doing more, more content. More posts, more keywords. But that's usually where things go sideways. Because if the right people can't find you, or worse, they find you and don't connect with what they see, none of it really matters. Today we're getting into what it takes to be found online and not just found, but chosen. I'm joined by Stephen Gregg. Who works in SEO and online visibility, helping businesses show up in the right place in a way that actually drives business, not just traffic, which is how we make our money. So, Steven, welcome to Unfuck Your Legal Marketing. Great. Thank you for having me, Gary. It's great to be here. So glad you're here. So let's get into this. So, what are people getting wrong? I mean, I love starting out with negative. So what are people doing wrong now about being found online? Well, it just hit her right out of the gate with the negative, right? I love So I would say what people are getting wrong about being found online is you know, everyone thinks that the big changes of AI is the end all be all to SEO. It is a big change and it is a big thing to take consideration into, especially a strategy of how we help. clients rank their business online, but it's a lot of still the fundamentals, right? So figuring out what ⁓ who your ideal clients are, who you want to to find you online, and making sure you're putting that right information out there on your website clearly and and very defined messages for those individuals. Narrow. Niche, rather. Niche. The riches are in the niches. Yes. That's how it goes. Yeah. So What's something that used to work? Because you talked about AI. And I know a lot of people are talking about, ⁓ AI is here to stay. Obviously, it is. It's been here for a very long time, though. A lot of people don't realize that this was well before ChatGPT. But what's something that used to work in SEO that just doesn't work anymore? Yeah. A lot of SEO used to be. keywords, right? Keyword stuffing, focus on specific keywords. Keywords are obviously important, but like the the focus so heavily on it and having these huge long articles. I remember 10, 15 years ago, it'd be 2000 word articles. And you're like, who's gonna write that? Who's gonna one, who's gonna read that? Right. I mean, no one's sitting there reading those. They're really written for SEO, right? And it, you know, depending on, you know, some stuff I'd see with clients coming to us, the web the content is just It's written by non-native speakers. It's so bad. And it's just like, this isn't passing any kind of sniff test once somebody gets to the website. So I mean, content's always going to be important, but focusing on specific content that's really about intent, right? So when you go now to Google, and I mentioned it with AI, ⁓ I didn't really get into it with Google part of it, but like Google's made their biggest change in 25 years now with removing the search bar. Now they haven't removed the search bar, there's still the search bar there. But it's not the traditional search bar that we've known and used for years. It's now an answer bar, right? So it's allowing people to search and it, you know, if you're looking for like I need a new part for my car, it's gonna give you items to search for like a from a storefront. Versus if you're looking for how do I fix this on my car, you're not gonna see items that are like with ⁓ dollar signs and storefronts. It's gonna give you more of that in long form information on here's how to learn how to do that. Yeah. That's gotta be, I don't know. You've been doing this for a shitload of a long time. Is this frustrating for you? Because you, I mean, I guess you always have had to learn all of the different changes that Google was going through because they always made different iterations. But with AI, is it just like changing a ton and having to learn so much to keep that visibility for your clients? Yeah, it is. I mean, it it's How do you think I lost my hair? No, just kidding. But no, it it but all jokes aside, I has changed the game a lot. And it is g SEO has always been an evolving thing, right? We I used to say Google was changed between five hundred to seven hundred and fifty things a year on online search. ⁓ hold on. Five hundred to seven hundred and fifty a year. Those are minor changes that happen. You know, they're adjusting their algorithms, they're adjusting how people are searching. Their whole goal is to give people a great user experience when they search online. ⁓ and so now they're doing that and they're evolving with AI. And so what I would say is what's changing the most for us as as SEO optimizers and and people that are working in marketing online is that it's changing faster and they're bigger changes, right? So it's a ⁓ AI is allowing things to change at a more rapid rate to where. know for a couple of years we'd be like, okay, we're gonna do this kind of content, we're gonna do focus on this kind of keywords. And we could kind of stay within that was a safe kind of range. Now it's really focusing on how is AI evolving today and what is happening with Claude and ChatGPT and these different search engines. How are they evolving and how are they pushing each other really? It's pushing each ⁓ everyone to be better. So it's all it's all really in the best interest of the consumer. Yeah, which is good because then they need They need experts like you because we don't do this all day long, especially attorneys. They're not like, you know, I c I'll could I could f I'm smart. I could figure out SEO, you know. It it's it's all good. Well, and I and my answer to that is you probably could figure it out, but what's your best and highest use? Why you're an attorney, right? Like you need to stay in your lane of helping your clients, navigating the legal system. And now you want to add in this job that's another five, ten, fifteen, you know, hours at a minimum a week. you're gonna be and you're gonna look at your your rankings on your website and see how you can improve that. Like it just doesn't it doesn't make sense to to to go that path. Yeah, very true. So you also talk a lot about not just showing up but converting. So what's the difference between showing up and actually converting once someone finds you? Yeah. I mean if if someone let's say you get put into the Google Google AI as a recommended resource For a topic X, right? Maybe it's D UI or like a family law attorney. But then when they get to your website, it talks about family law. If they're looking for divorce and then you've got family law and you're you're really talking about adoptions or something like that. And it's it's like, well, you're a family law attorney, but you're not focused on that area that I'm looking for. So they're immediately going to bounce off the site and they're going to go to another attorney. Which is exactly what you do not want them to do. No, right? You want them to actually do something. Yeah. And so it's really, you know, the technical everyone gets so focused on the technical side of SEO. It's really, I would say thirty to forty percent technical, right? Getting all of the the back end code correct, the meta tags, ⁓ making sure that there's the AI engines can read and the regular search engines can read what your website's about. But once you get the human onto the site, what is that content saying to them? Or is this relevant to what they're searching for? And that's really so much of the focus now of SEO. And when you're talking about content on their website, are you talking about like the copyright? What's their banner say? How do they how did they do the design of it so that it goes into potentially their services, you know, meet the team, all that kind of stuff? All of it. I mean, it's I mean, you know this, that stories sell, right? I mean, people buy for the story. They don't buy because you're technically competent. And I feel like you're are you a good attorney? And that's That's such a basic question to answer, right? Or even like the the super lawyers type ⁓ logo, right? Where versus how do I that's gonna strike a chord, right? So how do how do I how do I connect with these individuals that I want to work with and and telling the story of why I practice the law that I do and why I'm really good at it, why I why we can help you navigate these challenges and be the right attorney for your needs. That's that's the focus of of most of the copy. It should be, you know, when we're creating content on the website. Yeah. And doing it on the home page, doing it in the about page all throughout. It's that same consistent story that's giving those multiple touches for people to feel comfortable to convert. Does consistency across all the different pages matter? And if so, why? When you say consistency, what do you mean by that? Messaging. Yeah. Consistent messaging across it. Why? Why does that matter? It's You know, I think it matters because as humans, we it doesn't pass the SIF test if we're talking about topic A or a subject or with a tone of, you know, very maybe textbooky tone and then we're getting into this very compassionate type of loving type of tone or, you know, bulldog fighter tone. It just doesn't it doesn't make sense. People gotta wait a minute, why you've got Dr. Jocal and Mr. Hyde, you know, on your website and that's not that is not ⁓ it's not gonna convert people. Yeah. And earlier you were talking about target market, you know, making sure that you do have a target market that you're speaking to it. But if you're an attorney or a high fee professional and you're trying to niche down, should you be re for SEO? Do you have to be really niche down or is a little bit broader okay for SEO? I think you should niche down. I think you can be, you know, you can be broad in terms of like your general law type practice or business type practice or estate or family law, but like having specific pages and information that talks about the areas that you work in, right? I think the more niche that you can be and talk about very narrow areas of of law within that specific page that you're on, that's the best way to win. And it goes back to identifying who your target audiences are and who do you really want to work with. Yeah. And that's that's either a People that you want to make, you know, that you make the most money working with or that fill your cup you enjoy helping. And focusing on those types of avenues will help your marketing ⁓ grow and bring in those types of clients. Yeah. Cause that I mean, that really brings it all down to who you want to work with. Not who do you have to work with, but who do you actually want to work with? Yeah. So how do you balance writing for Google? versus writing for humans. Like, is there a difference between the content that is being written for a website as opposed to the content that is being written for social media? Yeah, that's a great question. ⁓ I would say I always love having great questions. Well as the host, right? You should have good questions, right? Or great questions. I would say the best, you know Writing for Google versus writing for humans, with all of this AI adoption and the way things have changed, it's all very much focused on intent search now and relevancy. And so a lot of that's kind of gone by the wayside. It's all writing for humans now. And that goes into kind of what I referenced earlier, years ago. There would be content that's written for SEO. And it's, you know, we do in Orange County, for example, we work in Irvine and Ranch Santa Margaret, and you'd list all these different cities. And it's like, you reading that as a human, you're going, of course you do that. You're, you know, your South County area, you know, pr service provider, but it's there just for SEO. Versus now, if we have a, you write that you're an Irvine area attorney and it's implied that you're with and people are it's based on where you're searching to. So Google's able to see, okay, you're in San Tlomeney. I'm gonna send you an attorney. The farthest I would ever send you an attorney maybe Irvine, because they've got a certain amount of domain authority. They've got a number of Google online reviews. They've got pe other people are writing about them. They've they're posting on LinkedIn. They're they're adding up all of these check marks in Google's eyes that say, this is the right type of an attorney that I should send to the person that's searching for for that service. So when we're also you you had earlier talked about consistency with your messaging, that the messaging across the board needs to be consistent. How important is it to consistently put stuff on your website, like articles and such to be found. Does that is it a one time blitz? Let's just blitz it and then we don't have to really think about it. Or do they need to have a consistency in regards to the amount of information that is put onto their website? Consistency is key. I mean, if you're gonna if you're gonna set it, you know, build a website and set it and forget it, it's not there's you're not gonna get the value out of it. The That you might think that you would. You need to be putting out content ideally on a weekly basis. And then if you've got the budget or the time to do that. And that again goes back to why would the attorney or well any professional, you know, think that they can do this SEO work on their own. It's it's just very labor-intensive and time intensive to get great quality content up there. And and some people would say, well, I have AI write the content. And that's and then it comes with the other set of problems of it's not authentic. It's not your voice. It's very You know, it it's fake kind of sounding. And so having having a human that understands the empathy of it, understands the industry, understands more of the than just the technical side of things that AI can pull out of the internet. That's where the value is. So ideally putting out a lot of content over over the course of, you know, a month or ⁓ you know, throughout the year, that's the best way to do it. And that's the same with social media too. Yeah, it's such an important element to that because Consistency in marketing is so key. And people just don't realize that because they're like, ⁓ my God, they get on this random. I I I've got time right now. So I'm just going to write a bunch of content. I'm gonna put it out there. And then two, three months later, they're like, damn, this is hard. Like ⁓ it I'll just be gone. And then a year later they're like, I'm back. I need to do this because somebody told me I needed to do this or something else, and you just go. Just be consistent. Show up every single month with it, you know, or have somebody like yourself to be able to show up, you know. And I I totally agree with you in regards to the AI. So many people are like, ⁓ AI writes my emails, it write and you're like, Yeah, we know. Because every time that it responds to me, it's like, God, Gary, that's a great idea, you know. I'm so happy that you're thinking that way. And you're like, ⁓ fuck. That totally doesn't sound like you. Or it was like say, ⁓ yeah, these times are great. And it's like, you don't know my calendar. That's not I wouldn't I wouldn't agree to that time. Yeah. Can you imagine if I sent you an email that's like, Steven, that's a great idea. You'd be like, fuck an idiot. No, that's bullshit. Who's writing it for ⁓ AI's way too nice, or my sister Megan is way too nice. Like, Yeah, it doesn't sound like me. It doesn't have that edge, you know, it doesn't sound like a bald guy is putting it out there, you know. But but but you're totally right because a lot of people I've heard they're like, I'm starting to get AI to just write all of my content. And in one aspect I'm like, yeah, but are you just doing copy paste? Because I think a lot of them are. Yeah. And if you are, you know, it it's one, you can lose out on your credibility. Two is like you had said, they just know it and then it sounds fake. You know, and you're like, You're you're just You're phoning it in. You don't really care about adding value to somebody else. And you just don't give a shit. You're just checking the boxes, you know. And it just sucks. You know? Well, and it's and if you think about it too, from a a standpoint of being a professional service provider, you're you're w I mean, you're I'm paying the attorney to draft the brief, to, you know, know the law and stand up on my behalf in whatever capacity of law that is, right? And And now you're you're writing content about your services that's just AI generated. So where you're you should be using your intellectual, you know, property and your your identity to create this content ⁓ or at least have some kind of input on it that's that's human-based. It's all not. It's not there. No, it's not. And it just sounds bad. So, you know, okay, so we talked about, you know, consistency in regards to the messaging. We also talked about Being consistent so that you have content on a regular basis. And I also see a lot of people focusing in on volume, posting more, doing more, but still not getting any traction. Where do you think the disconnect on that is? I think the disconnect is I mean, it you know, not reading the content, but knowing like where you'd have to I want to see what the content looks like. Right. So is it is the content one hitting the mark of it's matching what people are searching for? It's relevant, it's good quality content, all of those things. Now assuming it matches that, there's back end, you know, coding and there's making sure that that it's being read by the search engines, both AI and traditional search engines. And, you know, not just adding more content by itself is is going to be valuable. So there's those are other aspects of it that I think people are missing. I love that because that's totally contrary to what we've learned decades ago where it's like volume, volume, volume, you know. Whereas now it just and you keep coming back to this. It's the intent, it's the intent, it's in the intent, which I think should make a lot of attorneys be like happier about because it's not like they're putting out a bunch of shit. They're putting out really good content that's out there that is not only going to pick up from Google and others. But is also going to be able to show that you are the authority that is out there. Yeah. ⁓ as opposed to just let's just put a bunch of shit out there, you know, like. Yeah. And the other side of it too is is looking at your website and what type of content do you have on the site? Do you have an FAQ? And it might not make it might you go, well, why do I need a frequently asked questions section? Yeah. Those are things that that Google and other AI now search engines are looking for. And they're also looking for that you're cited on other websites and that you've got information that's that's relevant within your industry and you're not just talking out of your own just single mouthpiece, right? That you've got other people that are recognizing your expertise. Why does FAQs now matter? You know, before it was a lot of people would have FAQs to get people through the system, set expectations. But why is it so much more important now than it was before? I think it's because the ⁓ the systems are just they're looking it's more of an answer machine, right? So they're looking for answers to these types of questions. You're able to provide that information to the AI engines and and they're able to put that out there as a as a vetted relevant source. That's so good too. Now, what is if somebody wants to improve their online visibility this month? Sure. Where should they start? I would start with their Google business listing. I mean that's that is one of the easiest things. ⁓ and it's the free thing, right? That's the freebie for today is ⁓ if you don't have a Google business listing or you're not using it, right? A lot of business owners or attorneys will have these and there aren't any reviews and they haven't curated any reviews, they haven't asked for the reviews, and maybe there might be some ⁓ you know, industry ⁓ standards or ethics things about asking for reviews. But ⁓ if you can ask for reviews, ask for them. I mean, you've done a great work for your client. They're they're very happy with your services. I call it like at the top of the happy factor when they're when they've had a great experience. They're they have maybe they haven't received the bill yet, but they're they're happy with what you've provided them. And that's when you should be asking for that review. Because they they can give you they can give you that. It helps you with your business. ⁓ and it makes it really ⁓ Do you feel that it's more effective to ask over the phone or in person or via email? In person's always the most effective. Yeah. I would always, you know, it's it's the same thing when I used to do a lot of former light work in my career of political fundraising, right? It was always came from the candidate. It came you know it meant more, right? So having that initial, that personal ask, the ⁓ client is more likely to give that five star review than not. The other side of this too is that they've had a really great experience. Think about it when you go out to a restaurant, right? Maybe you have A bad experience, the server wasn't attentive, they were rude, or the food came out cold. You're more likely to leave that negative review because you had that negative experience. When you have that positive experience, you go on about your life, you have a great day, and it and you don't even think about it anymore. So it's more work to put in that five star. Yeah, that's a great analogy because I was just at a restaurant on Friday and unbelievable service. Like I was like, you know, I tipped him more than five percent, like it was that good. Wow, Gary, you I'm kidding. Actually, I'm a pretty big tipper. Accepted at a coffee shop. Fuck you, at a coffee shop. I'm like, wait, I am I am paying you a fifteen percent to just go, here you go, here's your cup. Come on. Like, especially when it's black coffee. If it's something like a special drink, I come on. Yes. And I only get black coffee. So it was like, fuck you. And I and I used to feel guilty. Now I just feel offended. But ⁓ I'm like, why would I Pay you the same percentage tip as somebody who is actually serving me, going back, getting the stuff, getting my menu, making sure that it's right, constantly checking up, giving us refills, the whole nine yards, like they are giving me a great experience, whereas you're just giving me a cup. No. So that's a whole different rant. But ⁓ but reviews, I think you're so right, is unless we ask for them, the chances of us getting them. Is next to nothing. Do you encourage or tell your clients you gotta make it a part of either the offboarding process or within the client engagement? And should it always be at the end or should it be somewhere else? That's a great question too. I mean, I do encourage my clients to ask for reviews, especially working, you know, next in addition to attorneys and other professional services. I work with a lot of doctors. And doctors aren't traditionally trained or of the mindset that they should ask for the review. And I tell them, you know, when you've had this great outcome with a patient or or any client, you know, any type of out professional service, you should ask for the review. ⁓ and ask for it right when they when that again, the top of the happy factor. That might be the end of the engagement. It might be, you know, maybe you were able to win a a really great verdict or something for them, or or created ⁓ a better legal outcome than they were expecting. And when that happens, Then you need to ask for the ⁓ the review. And you know, it's there's obviously like a bit of massaging it and not just immediately you get this, you know, give them a letter of this outcome. Here, give me the five star review. But it's like, hey, yeah, kind of the the post mortem of whatever the engagement was. Hey, it's been great working with you. I've really enjoyed our experience. I'm glad we were able to have this great outcome. By the way, if you would ⁓ if you wouldn't mind, I'd really appreciate it if you could leave me a five star review in my Google listing and or some of the other channels like Avo and these other. platforms, it really means a lot to me in my practice and will help me help other people like you have a better outcome in their legal needs. And so that that's that's a great way to frame it, I know. Totally. Now I'm gonna throw you a total curveball on this. Great. ⁓ if I'm a urologist, how do I ask for a five star review for somebody who I helped clear up gonorrhea? I think you ask that is quite the curveball. I would say you just really made my life a lot better. And if you can talk about how we helped you through this troubling time and how you just Yeah. Okay. So here's another curveball. And this is this is I think very pertinent to some of the attorneys who are listening to this. Family law attorneys. Yeah. That their clients want privacy. Their clients don't want it. Is there any way to get like get a review without Exposing your client because that's a tough one. Because if I'm very private, you know, like one of my clients, she works with celebrities and professional athletes. They don't want anybody to know about it, even though really a lot of times it's just find out. But they want it to be, you know, away. So how do they do that without exposing themselves? You know, like I just had this conversation with my therapist. I'm like, Yeah, how often do you get any five star reviews? It's like, hey, doctor really screwed me or really helped me because I was totally fucked up and he really helped me out, you know, get my mind healthy. But man was I dealing with all sorts of issues. Like we don't want to expose ourselves out there. And I loved what you had said about the gonorrhea person, but the family law or the therapist, you don't want people to know that this didn't work. My marriage didn't work. This is breaking up. Or I might be going through some mental issues because then they might go, ooh, this person isn't very competent. So like any advice on those two? There's certain like especially high profile individuals who are not going to ask them for the review. You know that they're not going to be the ones that leave the review on there, but you can still say, look, it's been great working with you. ⁓ I'm glad we were able to come to this outcome or whatever the situation was, and say, if you know anybody else that would be able to use our services. I'd love to be able to help them in the same way that we helped you. And and that's a great way to to ask for that review without and and I think when you get in with some of those types of individuals that that are more private, they're going to appreciate that and they're going to understand that that's how you grow your business. And you know, depending on on how well you help them and how that outcome experience was for them, that sometimes those are the best referral sources, right? Where they just cannot stop talking about how you helped them. I know with some of my own referral partners, I hear that all the time of, you know, I worked with this person and they were great. And they did X, Y, and Z. And they just every time I talk to this client, they can't say enough good things about you. You know, and that's the kind of type of environment that you want to set up. Well, absolutely, because it's a it's a transference of trust from one person to another. And especially if it is I worked with them. Yeah. That goes even through the roof. You know, next step from that is. I've referred a bunch of people over to them and they've never been disappointed. Like those are great, as opposed to I know them, that's it. Like I know of them, never worked with them, which you're still trying to help out and you're being truthful, you know, with that person who needs their help. But if you can, if you can encourage your clients to be able to do that, I think it's it just helps out. I mean it helps out the other person. It helps out you as a professional to get in more business so that you can help more people just across the board, I think is great. ⁓ so go ahead, go ahead. You have a thought on that. I it's the social proof, right? I mean, there's something Ziv ⁓ I know I know of Gary, but ⁓ versus I've worked with Gary and I can tell you how great he is and he he won't tip for black coffee, but other than that, he's great. Yes. Which hence You know, that's also part of our websites is the testimonials. People saying, you know, Steven was ⁓ absolutely amazing. Our, you know, we went and we doubled our business over one year. You know, our ROI went from a negative to, you know, ⁓ positive fifty per s holy shit, that's a great, you know, testimonial, but that's the same thing, is they're just trying to get broader out there like an online review, same thing, same thing, you know. ⁓ I always say people, if somebody gives you a five star review and they don't say why, ask them why. And then can I use this? Yeah, you know, as a testimonial. And I've never had anybody say no. I'm always afraid of asking because I'm like, ⁓ what if they do say no? But I it's like why would I focus in on that as opposed to everybody says yes? Like sure. But if I don't do it, guess what? It never happens. So I mean, like, just gotta put in your process. Yeah. And that's that's the problem. Is like if you if you don't ask for it, it won't happen. And you know, it's just such a simple thing, but we have our own insecurities that keep us from from doing those things. Yeah. Right. From asking. And it's just such a simple question. It is. Okay. Last question. So if somebody feels like their legal marketing is fucked and they want to unfuck their legal marketing. Especially when it comes to let's just say something specific. If someone feels invisible online right now, is there any piece of advice that you would give them right now? Yeah, I think if you feel invisible online right now, I would go back to the Google business listing. And that would be the step one. It's simple, it's easy. The verification's a little bit of a pain in the butt with the video process that Google makes you go through, but getting that online, right? Having that up there and asking your your five most recent clients talking to them, even if, you know, within the last two to three months, hey, it's been a great it was great working with you. I've set up this Google listing so I can help other people like you. And then it frames it instead of you're helping me, you're allowing me to help more people like you get past this this legal situation or whatever the situation is that they're struggling with. And so framing it in that context is great. And then as much as we talk about creating content and ⁓ you know it's a full time job. versus if you don't have if you don't have the content on the site or you're not putting a blog out or you're not putting s items on social social media posts up, getting starting starting and doing some kind of traffic and some kind of action is better than nothing. Right. And and you might not have the budget to pay for for me and my team or to pay for another consultant to come in and help you. But it's better than nothing, right? To get some messaging out there and and do things that small bite size pieces of marketing that make sense. Right. So putting up a blog about a recent ⁓ verdict or something in your area of expertise that you want to provide some context to. Same thing with social media posts. And doing it instead of I'm going to do 10 or 20 pieces, you know, over the next three two to three months, I'm going to do one or two a month because I know that that's manageable and it's something that I can consistently do on my own. Yeah. Brilliant. I love your advice across the board. I mean, from You know, you still, even with AI, you still need to make sure that you have the funtim the fundamentals that content is about intent. So if you're listening to this, content is about intent, you know, and making sure that you are consistent, like what you were just saying. Those are just so many key nuggets in this. And I thank you so much, Steven, for spending the time on this. ⁓ because I do know how valuable your time is, and I also know what great work you do. And to be able to share that information with my audience, I I I truly value our friendship, even though you're all the way up in Idaho. But but no, yeah. I've always every interac almost every interaction that we've had has been really good. I I sense the I sense that story is gonna come out. I I don't think that belongs on the podcast there, but what, the Mount Whitney one? Okay. So anyways Now, so if anybody's listening to this, we are going to put all of Steven's ⁓ contact information in the notes from his email to his website to his services to his LinkedIn profile, the whole nine yards. So go there so you can just click on it because if I say it or if Steven says it, it just goes in one ear and right out the other. So it's actually tangible. ⁓ and also don't forget to subscribe, like this, so more people can get it. It's For individuals like Steven to get that visibility like we were just talking about before. And really, if you need help with this, Steven is a fucking great marketing agency who is very honest and doesn't do a bunch of bullshit that a lot of these SEO people do, which just drives me crazy. So you want to get the good one. He's like a mechanic. Once you find a good mechanic, you don't let them go, you know, because there's a lot of shysters out there. Steven is not one of the shysters. He's one of the good ones. And as you can tell from what he has just taught us, he knows his shit inside and out. So Steven, thank you for being on Unfuck Your Legal Marketing. Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun. That's it for today's episode of Unfuck Your Legal Marketing. If you got a spark of inspiration, learn something new, or at least got a good laugh, make sure to follow, rate, and share this with someone who needs to hear it. Thanks for hanging out with me and remember, the best marketing is the one that actually sounds like you. See you next time.