Latest / Toni, Jase & Sam - Breakfast Catchup / You should write a prenup with Holly Egerton

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You should write a prenup with Holly Egerton · Toni, Jase & Sam - Breakfast Catchup

0:00
Speaker 1: We Need To Talk, Tony Street's lifestyle and wellness podcast.
0:07
Speaker 2: Hello, it is great to have you with us for
0:09
Speaker 2: We Need To Talk. Would you get a prenup or
0:12
Speaker 2: does the thought of that bring up some icky feelings?
0:15
Speaker 2: I have to admit, it probably does for me. But
0:17
Speaker 2: then again, I have been with my husband since I
0:19
Speaker 2: was 18, which is very weird. What if I told
0:23
Speaker 2: you that you essentially already have one? It's just written
0:26
Speaker 2: by the government. This is the message that lawyer Holly
0:28
Speaker 2: Egerton is trying to get through to more Kiwis. She's
0:31
Speaker 2: launching a Relationship Property Academy next month, and she's starting
0:36
Speaker 2: this after a very personal story. Holly, it's great to
0:39
Speaker 2: chat with you, but you had a pretty icky story
0:42
Speaker 2: that led to you being quite passionate about this. So
0:45
Speaker 2: tell us what happened to you eight weeks before your wedding.
0:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, eight weeks before my wedding, my fiancé cheated on me,
0:53
Speaker 3: which was not what I was expecting. Didn't see it coming,
0:57
Speaker 3: to be fair. You know how sometimes in relationships you
0:59
Speaker 3: can be like, oh, yeah, kind of called that? Like,
1:00
Speaker 3: could see that one coming. Didn't see that coming. I
1:02
Speaker 3: don't think anybody actually saw that one coming. It was
1:04
Speaker 3: definitely a shock. But what followed was a four-year separation process.
1:11
Speaker 3: So despite not signing the papers, unfortunately, you still have
1:13
Speaker 3: to go through the divorce. And the division of assets,
1:16
Speaker 3: which is emotionally hard, like especially when a relationship has
1:20
Speaker 3: ended four years prior, you're emotionally well and truly done.
1:23
Speaker 3: But financially and everything along with it is just, it's
1:27
Speaker 3: not the easiest process.
1:29
Speaker 4: So you're in your early 20s at this point.
1:31
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:32
Speaker 4: And the biggest asset you shared was a house, right? Yeah.
1:35
Speaker 2: And if somebody doesn't want to sell a house, you
1:37
Speaker 2: have to get a court-ordered sale.
1:38
Speaker 4: That's unfortunately the only thing. only way to do it.
1:41
Speaker 4: I wasn't worried about anything else, to be honest.
1:43
Speaker 3: I wasn't worried about the dishwasher, the tent and all
1:45
Speaker 3: the other things that people can talk about. I was
1:47
Speaker 3: just worried about the house.
1:50
Speaker 4: Let's sell the house.
1:51
Speaker 2: Why did he not want to sell the house, do
1:52
Speaker 2: you think, to drag out the process?
1:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely.
1:55
Speaker 2: Because otherwise your money's just tied up with someone that
1:57
Speaker 2: you've moved on from.
1:58
Speaker 4: Literally.
1:59
Speaker 3: I think they were just hoping I'd eventually just walk
2:00
Speaker 3: away and give up my life. It took two years
2:04
Speaker 3: to build it. And everything that I had went into it.
2:07
Speaker 3: I was working as a lawyer. I had a my
2:09
Speaker 3: own raw cakes business where all my money from that
2:12
Speaker 3: went straight into the house. And yeah, I think they
2:14
Speaker 3: literally just thought I would eventually maybe walk away.
2:17
Speaker 4: But you didn't and you kept fighting. I kept fighting.
2:20
Speaker 4: I was determined.
2:21
Speaker 3: It was a moral thing by the end of it.
2:23
Speaker 3: I was like, this is wrong what you've done. I
2:24
Speaker 3: actually don't care about the outcome at the end, but
2:26
Speaker 3: you can't get away with this behaviour.
2:28
Speaker 4: So.
2:29
Speaker 3: probably, I think hindsight's an amazing thing. Would I ever
2:32
Speaker 3: do something like that again? No, probably not personally knowing
2:35
Speaker 3: the whole process, but I don't regret it. And I
2:38
Speaker 3: wouldn't go back and change it because of everything that
2:41
Speaker 3: it taught me throughout.
2:42
Speaker 4: But what would your alternative have been if you didn't
2:45
Speaker 4: sell the house?
2:46
Speaker 1: Walk away.
2:47
Speaker 4: Walk away and start again.
2:47
Speaker 2: And not have, oh gosh. Luckily, I guess you had
2:51
Speaker 2: a law background at that point. So you know, because
2:54
Speaker 2: the law process can be quite scary for the average person,
2:57
Speaker 2: but at least I guess you had a bit of
2:58
Speaker 2: an understanding about that.
2:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the thing.
3:00
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, I knew, you know, I'd been a lawyer,
3:02
Speaker 3: maybe like, oh, I don't know how many actually, I'm
3:06
Speaker 3: so not good at numbers and math. Anyway, had been
3:07
Speaker 3: a lawyer. I knew relationship property law well. It's what
3:09
Speaker 3: I was doing, which definitely helped. And I think that's
3:13
Speaker 3: what gave me the ability to keep going because I
3:16
Speaker 3: understood how it all worked. I knew what the law said,
3:20
Speaker 3: but if, and that's where I think, My passion comes
3:23
Speaker 3: from is so many people don't and engaging a lawyer
3:25
Speaker 3: into understanding all of that. It's expensive and or a
3:29
Speaker 3: lot of people don't even get there because they don't
3:31
Speaker 3: know and they're unaware of their rights and they never
3:33
Speaker 3: actually find out because of how scary the law process
3:37
Speaker 3: can be. Or you think, you know, you're not entitled
3:39
Speaker 3: to something or they've told you something.
3:41
Speaker 4: Throughout the entire relationship. You're not entitled to it.
3:43
Speaker 1: It's mine.
3:44
Speaker 3: You know, you didn't work for it or you didn't
3:46
Speaker 3: do this for it. And so many people believe that
3:48
Speaker 3: without actually knowing there are some rights there.
3:51
Speaker 1: Yeah.
3:51
Speaker 2: And I guess, you know, talking from a layperson's perspective,
3:54
Speaker 2: I just assume that things will be divided up 50-50.
3:56
Speaker 4: Yeah. But it's a bit more complex than that, right? Yeah,
3:59
Speaker 4: it's not.
3:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's the thing. It's on paper, if
4:02
Speaker 3: you look at it, you're like, oh yeah, 50-50. But
4:04
Speaker 3: what does that actually look like?
4:05
Speaker 2: Because you can still have separate property, but also, yes,
4:08
Speaker 2: you can just divide 50-50, but you've got to sell
4:10
Speaker 2: the asset. You've got to sell the house. You've got
4:12
Speaker 2: to sell, you know, We would divvy up the investment.
4:14
Speaker 2: You know, if you've got shares, you're selling the shares.
4:17
Speaker 2: If somebody's keeping the portfolio, you're paying the other person out.
4:19
Speaker 3: And I think while the idea is, oh, it's easy
4:22
Speaker 3: to just do, if somebody's unwilling, it's a court process
4:26
Speaker 3: to get.
4:26
Speaker 4: Somebody to partake.
4:27
Speaker 2: What would have been the, like, in what world would
4:31
Speaker 2: they have allowed him to not sell the house?
4:34
Speaker 4: None.
4:34
Speaker 2: Yeah.
4:35
Speaker 4: So it would have just carried on and that's why
4:38
Speaker 4: it took four years.
4:39
Speaker 1: Yeah.
4:39
Speaker 2: I just can't believe it takes four years to sort
4:41
Speaker 2: a process where you have to sell it.
4:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I.
4:44
Speaker 3: Did have a very interesting person on the other side.
4:47
Speaker 3: I think the reality of complying and acknowledging the seriousness
4:51
Speaker 3: of the position and the seriousness of court orders was
4:54
Speaker 3: probably a little bit lost maybe on the person. I
4:57
Speaker 3: remember one judgment being like, these are serious orders. You
5:02
Speaker 3: don't just get to keep ignoring and think it's going
5:04
Speaker 3: to be okay. There are consequences to ignoring this. But
5:08
Speaker 3: the thing with our court system is, is you get
5:10
Speaker 3: a different judge every time you go. So every time
5:12
Speaker 3: you're putting, they don't have the background.
5:14
Speaker 2: It's like when you go to a different doctor and
5:16
Speaker 2: you've got to give all your same medical history.
5:18
Speaker 4: Over and over again.
5:19
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:20
Speaker 4: So it's not, you.
5:21
Speaker 3: Don't get a judge who's familiar with everything and understands
5:23
Speaker 3: the history. And so people do get second chances. And,
5:27
Speaker 3: you know, we do have, try to have a fair
5:29
Speaker 3: system and things like that.
5:30
Speaker 4: So yeah. Yeah, it's a drawn out process. It's never cheap.
5:35
Speaker 4: It's never easy.
5:36
Speaker 3: I think the idea that people think, you know, well,
5:38
Speaker 3: it can be easy if you've got two willing people,
5:40
Speaker 3: but very few situations result in two amicable, willing people
5:45
Speaker 3: to just.
5:50
Speaker 2: You imagine, you know, if you'd had a few more
5:52
Speaker 2: years under the belt, potentially children, additional assets, then it
5:56
Speaker 2: would become really, really sticky. Has it made you a
5:59
Speaker 2: little bit wary of the next relationship you enter into?
6:02
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely.
6:05
Speaker 3: But I also feel quite comfortable having these conversations. And
6:07
Speaker 3: I think that's where I'm fortunate enough is because this
6:11
Speaker 3: has been my life for 10 years and I've helped
6:13
Speaker 3: other people have those conversations.
6:15
Speaker 4: I think it's normal. So I'm not afraid to have that.
6:18
Speaker 3: And I think that's the big difference is when you
6:20
Speaker 3: can have these conversations, you are so much.
6:23
Speaker 4: More empowered than if you're not.
6:24
Speaker 3: And if you don't have that base knowledge, So I
6:27
Speaker 3: can go in and say, well, if I am going
6:29
Speaker 3: to step back and rely on you, if you're going
6:33
Speaker 3: to keep growing your career, if you want me to
6:35
Speaker 3: hopefully have a family and do all of those things,
6:37
Speaker 3: that can not only impact me in the immediate, but
6:41
Speaker 3: also if you choose to leave me when I'm 60, yeah,
6:43
Speaker 3: I might get half of the assets, but my earning
6:46
Speaker 3: potential potentially, not necessarily, but could potentially be higher.
6:49
Speaker 4: A lot less than what yours is. Most of the
6:51
Speaker 4: time it is. You've been out of the workforce and
6:53
Speaker 4: it's very hard to start again. Yeah.
6:54
Speaker 3: So in those positions, I'm trying to empower people to say, well,
6:57
Speaker 3: is 50-50 fair? Or actually, do you want some recognition
7:00
Speaker 3: for what you are sacrificing and trying to rebuild? I've
7:04
Speaker 3: seen so many clients go through that, like women in
7:07
Speaker 3: their 60s who did the kid thing, supported their partner's career.
7:11
Speaker 3: They kept earning, earning potential like 200 plus K. They
7:14
Speaker 3: come out on minimum wage in their 60s. Yes, they've
7:17
Speaker 3: got half the assets, but they're never going to rebuild
7:19
Speaker 3: like the other person will.
7:20
Speaker 2: They thought their life was together. And it's like, I
7:24
Speaker 2: think that's the thing with prenups is it doesn't always
7:26
Speaker 2: have to be you losing something. You could be getting something. Hey,
7:28
Speaker 2: if you choose to leave me and.
7:30
Speaker 3: I've made these sacrifices where you can build, but even
7:32
Speaker 3: not with kids. Like I've seen like young people supporting
7:35
Speaker 3: their partner in their career where it's taken them overseas.
7:38
Speaker 3: So they've stopped whatever they studied to do because their
7:40
Speaker 3: partner wants them to, because they don't want to be
7:42
Speaker 3: alone in the foreign countries and doing these things. I'm
7:45
Speaker 3: going to give up my whole 20s or like my
7:47
Speaker 3: mid-20s to mid-30s to go support your career. You've just
7:50
Speaker 3: put yourself 10 years behind in your financial earning potential. Like,
7:53
Speaker 3: are you okay with that if they leave you, you know?
7:58
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8:03
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8:06
Speaker 2: Are you finding that this disproportionately affects women as well?
8:11
Speaker 4: Definitely more so than women.
8:12
Speaker 2: And I'm not like, I'm not going, oh, it's all
8:15
Speaker 2: men are horrible and all those things.
8:16
Speaker 4: It's definitely not. But from what I've witnessed.
8:20
Speaker 2: it is definitely women that are impacted the most by it.
8:23
Speaker 4: Well, they often stop work for children, right? Yeah. That's fact.
8:26
Speaker 1: Yeah.
8:26
Speaker 4: I mean, some men do too. Yeah.
8:28
Speaker 3: And that's the thing. And so it goes both ways.
8:29
Speaker 3: It's just to acknowledge who is making the sacrifice. And like,
8:32
Speaker 3: if a man sacrificed their career to support mine, like,
8:35
Speaker 3: I'd have to be willing to have that conversation. Like,
8:37
Speaker 3: if that's something I'm willing to argue, and that's, you know,
8:40
Speaker 3: I'd be willing to do the same and be like, well,
8:42
Speaker 3: are you actually supporting my career? Are you helping me?
8:44
Speaker 4: Because if you are, sure, you're a team.
8:47
Speaker 3: I'm so okay with that conversation, but I think that's
8:49
Speaker 3: the thing is empowering people to have those conversations, normalize
8:53
Speaker 3: it and say, are we okay with this or should
8:55
Speaker 3: we choose something different? Let's talk about it now while
8:58
Speaker 3: we love each other and we're on the same team
8:59
Speaker 3: and while you're sacrificing and helping me build my career
9:02
Speaker 3: and build my business or whatever.
9:03
Speaker 2: Before everything turns to customs and we don't like each
9:06
Speaker 2: other anymore.
9:06
Speaker 4: We can't even text.
9:09
Speaker 2: So is there sort of a figure or a percentage,
9:12
Speaker 2: let's say my husband never gave up his career and
9:16
Speaker 2: I did to have children and We have the discussion of, okay,
9:20
Speaker 2: if you suddenly left me, I have lost all these
9:22
Speaker 2: years of earning potential. Is there a figure or a
9:25
Speaker 2: percentage that can make up for that? Yeah, that's the thing,
9:28
Speaker 2: isn't it? It's like, how do you quantify that?
9:30
Speaker 4: And I probably don't have the answer off the top
9:32
Speaker 4: of my head.
9:33
Speaker 2: But I think you can definitely get advice and guidance
9:36
Speaker 2: and you can get some numbers, people. And I'm not
9:38
Speaker 2: a numbers girl. I'm not going to lie. When I
9:41
Speaker 2: do it, I need spreadsheets and all.
9:42
Speaker 4: The things in the formula.
9:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
9:45
Speaker 3: But, you know, and I don't think there's ever a
9:46
Speaker 3: perfect answer and it's not the same answer for every couple.
9:49
Speaker 3: I think it's every couple's individualised, your assets are different,
9:52
Speaker 3: like the earning potentials are different, like your family dynamics different.
9:56
Speaker 3: So I think there's no like one size fits all
9:58
Speaker 3: approach when it comes to all of these.
10:00
Speaker 4: Things. But I think it's.
10:02
Speaker 3: Worth the conversation and trying to work out together, what
10:05
Speaker 3: do you both think would be fair if the situation happened?
10:08
Speaker 4: Because again, if you stay together, great. You don't need
10:11
Speaker 4: to worry about it. But if somebody leaves, and it's
10:14
Speaker 4: not to say you can't leave. If you're unhappy, get
10:16
Speaker 4: out of a relationship, please. I'm pro that.
10:18
Speaker 1: But.
10:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, just know what rights you have when you are exiting.
10:23
Speaker 2: Now, from a business perspective, you obviously are a lawyer
10:27
Speaker 2: by trade and now you've got your own business.
10:30
Speaker 4: So tell us what that's been like. It's been incredible.
10:33
Speaker 4: Literally the best thing I've ever done. Just to.
10:36
Speaker 3: I think for me as a lawyer, I always operated
10:38
Speaker 3: on the basis of just be you and whatever happens, like,
10:42
Speaker 3: it'll work. And I think I built up quite a
10:45
Speaker 3: big client base at the firm I was at and
10:48
Speaker 3: purely off just never, ever focusing on numbers or clients
10:51
Speaker 3: or anything like that or billables. That was never my forte.
10:55
Speaker 3: It was like, just do your job and be you
10:57
Speaker 3: and whatever.
10:58
Speaker 2: Fortunately for me, that produced really good outcomes for the company.
11:01
Speaker 4: And, you know, luckily enough, I got paid well and
11:05
Speaker 4: also helped.
11:05
Speaker 3: Fund the $ 100, 000 legal fees along the way back then.
11:09
Speaker 3: But going out on my own, the freedom and just...
11:12
Speaker 3: The ability to do things how you want to do it,
11:15
Speaker 3: help people. And for me, I never loved the corporate
11:18
Speaker 3: structure of a law firm. And I've always been really people-driven.
11:22
Speaker 3: I want people to do this because I think it
11:23
Speaker 3: does make a big difference on the people around them.
11:26
Speaker 3: And I think you doing one small action can have
11:29
Speaker 3: a massive impact on the people around you. But I
11:32
Speaker 3: also think lawyers can be scary. I don't like unknown prices.
11:36
Speaker 3: I've been on the receiving end of unknown fees and
11:38
Speaker 3: it's horrible. Yeah, when the billable hours come back to you,
11:41
Speaker 3: it's like, oh.
11:42
Speaker 4: Gosh, really? Literally, you build every six minutes for that.
11:45
Speaker 3: And I just think, and the uncertainty around it and
11:47
Speaker 3: then trying to fit it in your day, saying, hey,
11:49
Speaker 3: take time off work, drive to my office, find a
11:52
Speaker 3: car park, pay for a car park, sit in our
11:54
Speaker 3: waiting room while I, you know, You've got a meeting
11:56
Speaker 3: at 10, but I'll come and grab you, you know,
11:58
Speaker 3: 20 minutes later.
11:59
Speaker 4: And I'll bill you for that 20 minutes. Literally. And
12:02
Speaker 4: then I will.
12:03
Speaker 3: And then, you know, you've got to try and get
12:04
Speaker 3: back to work or pick up the kids. So I
12:06
Speaker 3: was like, I want something that works for the person.
12:09
Speaker 3: I want people to have clarity about pricing. I want
12:11
Speaker 3: people to be able to meet after work. meet in
12:14
Speaker 3: a weekend if that suits them like let's take away
12:16
Speaker 3: all the barriers that stop people doing this because I
12:18
Speaker 3: really think everybody should do it and it's been incredible
12:21
Speaker 3: I feel like it's for the right person it's not
12:23
Speaker 3: for everyone and that's okay like I'm not for everyone
12:25
Speaker 3: but I'm for people who want that and I think
12:27
Speaker 3: I can help most and it's led to other business
12:31
Speaker 3: opportunities as well so it led to tapping into my
12:34
Speaker 3: relationship property experience and expertise which I don't practice the
12:38
Speaker 3: separation side of things or the prenups anymore. But I'm
12:41
Speaker 3: really passionate about educating people.
12:43
Speaker 4: On them and getting them aware.
12:44
Speaker 3: Because often in my Will and EPA meetings, people would
12:48
Speaker 3: talk about situations and I say, well, you can do
12:50
Speaker 3: this in your Will, but they're going to be able
12:52
Speaker 3: to challenge because they have rights under the... property relationships
12:55
Speaker 3: act and it's important you know that. And unless you
12:58
Speaker 3: go put a prenup in place, your will can be
13:00
Speaker 3: challenged and this is what it could look like and
13:03
Speaker 3: while you're both sitting here saying, yeah, no, I'd never
13:05
Speaker 3: do that.
13:05
Speaker 4: I'm like, cool, go put it in writing now. Yeah,
13:07
Speaker 4: just in case.
13:08
Speaker 3: So yeah, and then it's led to another one that's
13:11
Speaker 3: coming out soon this is like inside a goss the
13:13
Speaker 3: academy well that oh and something else yeah this is
13:16
Speaker 3: like real inside a goss.
13:17
Speaker 2: I love how you've got all these things juggling at
13:19
Speaker 2: the same time.
13:20
Speaker 3: Which is like it's called the law office and that's
13:22
Speaker 3: like a place to have your documents documented accessible for
13:27
Speaker 3: when things go wrong because I think that's another thing
13:29
Speaker 3: that's missing. But yeah, so the business side of thing
13:31
Speaker 3: has just been incredible and it's kind of led organically
13:34
Speaker 3: to so many.
13:35
Speaker 2: Have you started this law office? Yeah, so it's with
13:38
Speaker 2: the developer, like we should be going live hopefully within
13:40
Speaker 2: like the next three weeks-ish. And it's where people came
13:43
Speaker 2: literally every day in my career. So I was practicing
13:46
Speaker 2: in Wanaka and I would have a lot of clients
13:48
Speaker 2: coming from Auckland actually, relocating to Wanaka and I would
13:51
Speaker 2: sit and do their wills and I'd say, do you
13:52
Speaker 2: have a will?
13:53
Speaker 4: And they would say, yep, I'm like, cool, who did it?
13:55
Speaker 4: Couldn't tell you. I'm not that. If you ask me
13:57
Speaker 4: right now, no idea. Where is it? No idea. Literally.
14:00
Speaker 4: I don't know where the kids' birth certificates are either. Literally.
14:04
Speaker 4: And so many people the same.
14:05
Speaker 3: So the law office is like your digital safety deposit box.
14:07
Speaker 4: You put your will in there.
14:09
Speaker 3: You can put the birth certificates in there, your marriage certificate,
14:11
Speaker 3: your passport. And whenever somebody does a will, I really
14:14
Speaker 3: encourage everyone to do what I call an asset list,
14:17
Speaker 3: which is... My KiwiSaver is worth Milford. My life insurance is.
14:22
Speaker 2: Worth, however, I've got bank accounts with ANZ, Westpac, however
14:26
Speaker 2: it may be.
14:26
Speaker 4: I've got shares with Sharesies or where are your things?
14:30
Speaker 4: Give people help. So, and then everyone goes, yeah, but
14:33
Speaker 4: where do I store this?
14:34
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, you need to store it with
14:35
Speaker 2: your will and then that's a whole thing. Well, you
14:38
Speaker 2: could be like me and I've got my IRD number
14:41
Speaker 2: randomly on a notes app on my phone. I've got
14:43
Speaker 2: the birth certificates I think are in a folder somewhere
14:46
Speaker 2: in our attic or something, you know?
14:48
Speaker 4: And that's the problem.
14:49
Speaker 2: And so when you upload these documents as well, you
14:51
Speaker 2: state where the original is.
14:53
Speaker 1: Yes.
14:53
Speaker 3: And then you give like a person authorised access. The
14:55
Speaker 3: idea is when you pass, they can have access to
14:57
Speaker 3: all the key information. You yourself can go on and
15:00
Speaker 3: look and be.
15:00
Speaker 4: Like, oh, that's right.
15:01
Speaker 2: That's where I left my will or that's where I
15:02
Speaker 2: set the kid's birth certificates. It's in the office or
15:05
Speaker 2: it's here at this location.
15:06
Speaker 3: And then it's searchable as well so that when somebody
15:09
Speaker 3: passes away, like if something happened to you, somebody could go,
15:12
Speaker 3: where's Tony's stuff?
15:13
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:14
Speaker 4: Search your name. Don't worry. Nobody's going to be able
15:16
Speaker 4: to just see your information. That's right.
15:17
Speaker 3: But they can request, like, lodge a notification that you've passed.
15:24
Speaker 3: And what that does is notifies our system to say, okay,
15:27
Speaker 3: you've passed away.
15:28
Speaker 4: We need to get your documents. Someone's trying to access it.
15:29
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:29
Speaker 3: And if they're not the right person, we then contact
15:32
Speaker 3: the person you've given permission to.
15:34
Speaker 2: Having an online place where all of that is kept
15:37
Speaker 2: is such a good idea.
15:38
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:38
Speaker 3: My mission in life, I don't know if I should
15:40
Speaker 3: say this out loud, is but at the moment our
15:41
Speaker 3: court system is like so archaic. Like you have to
15:44
Speaker 3: send the original will in and it's because it's on
15:47
Speaker 3: paper and I'm hoping this will be biometric and because
15:50
Speaker 3: the person uploads it themselves and it'll It's not right away,
15:53
Speaker 3: but one day we'll have the face thing that you
15:55
Speaker 3: can validate. Well, that person's uploaded it.
15:58
Speaker 4: It's theirs.
15:59
Speaker 2: And it could maybe get approved in probate that way.
16:02
Speaker 4: Who knows?
16:03
Speaker 2: Because what a drama when you've got a deceased estate
16:07
Speaker 2: and you have to find all these documents. That's when
16:11
Speaker 2: your lawyer bills add up as well. When the person
16:13
Speaker 2: doesn't even know where it is. How are the family
16:16
Speaker 2: members supposed to know?
16:17
Speaker 4: I have that conversation daily.
16:20
Speaker 2: So that's a hot insider that's coming.
16:23
Speaker 4: I think that's a really, really good idea.
16:28
Speaker 1: Back to We Need to Talk with Toni Street.
16:31
Speaker 4: And then the one that's coming November is the Academy.
16:34
Speaker 4: Tell us about that.
16:35
Speaker 3: So that's to educate people on what your prenup is.
16:38
Speaker 3: We all live under these rules. A lot of us
16:40
Speaker 3: think that they might not apply to us because we
16:42
Speaker 3: don't live together or we agreed to keep our finances separate,
16:45
Speaker 3: which might not actually be the case.
16:46
Speaker 4: There's no such thing when you're in a relationship, is there? Yeah, no.
16:50
Speaker 4: And so many people are unaware. They don't know the rules.
16:53
Speaker 3: And I feel like we just needed a platform where everyone,
16:56
Speaker 3: where you can go learn the basics.
16:58
Speaker 4: The idea is it's not legal advice.
16:59
Speaker 3: It's not to replace legal advice, but it's to educate
17:02
Speaker 3: you to go, oh, okay, I actually didn't realise that
17:05
Speaker 3: could apply to me. Oh, I put more into a
17:07
Speaker 3: house deposit. I didn't realise I wasn't going to get
17:09
Speaker 3: that back. Or, oh, we've been together for six years.
17:11
Speaker 3: We don't have kids. We've agreed that our finances are separate. Oh,
17:14
Speaker 3: I didn't realise the government didn't see them that way.
17:17
Speaker 3: So it's a place to educate people on what the
17:19
Speaker 3: rules are. The idea is you can learn it by yourself.
17:22
Speaker 3: You might then say, hey, I've been learning about something
17:24
Speaker 3: or I saw something. Can we go learn about it together?
17:26
Speaker 3: Especially when a couple are operating slightly different than what
17:29
Speaker 3: the government prenup says. And they can realise that actually
17:33
Speaker 3: we do have options. We don't have to wait until
17:35
Speaker 3: things go wrong. If we're both on the same page
17:37
Speaker 3: and you've got something you do.
17:38
Speaker 4: Want to protect. you can go do that. Like, let's
17:41
Speaker 4: normalise it. Let's not make it scary.
17:42
Speaker 3: Let's not make it, I don't trust you or we're
17:44
Speaker 3: going to break up or you're a gold digger trying
17:47
Speaker 3: to get everything.
17:47
Speaker 4: It could be, I got an inheritance. if we do
17:51
Speaker 4: break up, I just want to get that back.
17:52
Speaker 2: Yes.
17:53
Speaker 4: You know, it can be as simple as that. And
17:54
Speaker 4: the gold digging can go both ways as well. Completely.
17:58
Speaker 4: You know, if that's what you want to call it. Yeah.
18:00
Speaker 3: And like debts and things like that, like people often
18:02
Speaker 3: forget that your partner's debts will become your debts as well.
18:05
Speaker 3: And that happens in relationships where somebody might get into
18:08
Speaker 3: a position and they don't want to admit it out
18:10
Speaker 3: loud and they've dug themselves into a hole and all
18:13
Speaker 3: of a sudden your family home that's up for security
18:15
Speaker 3: is now getting called upon and you were maybe not
18:18
Speaker 3: even aware of it.
18:19
Speaker 2: In fact, if you were a sinister individual, getting into
18:22
Speaker 2: a relationship with debts would half.
18:23
Speaker 4: Them, wouldn't it?
18:25
Speaker 1: Yeah.
18:25
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? And I'm sure there are
18:27
Speaker 2: those types of people out there. So we've got your story.
18:31
Speaker 2: Can you give us another example or two of stories
18:34
Speaker 2: that you hear from women and what sort of binds
18:37
Speaker 2: they get themselves in?
18:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the most like, I think like a
18:41
Speaker 3: young or maybe pre-kids one or even not pre-kids, like
18:45
Speaker 3: lots of people are choosing not to have kids as well.
18:47
Speaker 3: They're just choosing to have separate finances. Like they have
18:50
Speaker 3: what they do together, which is great. That's just how
18:52
Speaker 3: they've chosen to function. Like I speak to people like
18:55
Speaker 3: that every week who go, hey, this is us. Like
18:57
Speaker 3: we don't have kids. We're not going to have kids.
18:59
Speaker 3: Like we do what we want together.
19:01
Speaker 4: But like my savings and my investments and mine, theirs
19:04
Speaker 4: is theirs. Perfect. Go document that.
19:06
Speaker 3: Because if you don't, That's not how the government looks
19:08
Speaker 3: at it. So one of you could be the person
19:10
Speaker 3: who loves to go buy all the shoes and the
19:11
Speaker 3: handbags or go buy the motorbikes and the lads trips.
19:15
Speaker 3: So one person might be a saver and the other
19:17
Speaker 3: person might be, I'm going to live life. Call the
19:18
Speaker 3: person that saved the 50k in their bank account and
19:22
Speaker 3: built up 150k investment portfolio.
19:24
Speaker 2: That person can take half. It's depressing, isn't it? And
19:29
Speaker 2: it's not just the people in the relationship. You've also
19:33
Speaker 2: got parents that are impacted here as well because they
19:36
Speaker 2: might have helped you out with a house deposit or
19:39
Speaker 2: given you money for university and suddenly that gets halved too.
19:42
Speaker 4: So I think there'll be people.
19:44
Speaker 2: Motivated at all sort of ages and relationships with the
19:48
Speaker 2: people that are actually doing this.
19:50
Speaker 4: Definitely.
19:50
Speaker 3: And I think that's the thing is how, and quite
19:52
Speaker 3: often there was a while back where parents were giving
19:54
Speaker 3: gifts to children to get into a house and the
19:56
Speaker 3: bank were requiring it to be gifted. So people were
19:59
Speaker 3: making those statements, not realising, well, if it's a gift,
20:02
Speaker 3: it's now to the couple.
20:03
Speaker 4: And that's subject to where if you.
20:05
Speaker 3: Record it as a loan and just acknowledge in that
20:07
Speaker 3: document that it's secondary to the bank's interest, the bank
20:10
Speaker 3: will accept that more often than not.
20:12
Speaker 4: So that would then become a debt.
20:13
Speaker 2: Yes.
20:13
Speaker 4: That would come out of the split. That the parent
20:15
Speaker 4: could call upon.
20:15
Speaker 1: Yes.
20:16
Speaker 3: So there's other ways to do it. And I think
20:17
Speaker 3: that's the thing to be aware of is just what
20:19
Speaker 3: are you trying to achieve? I think I say this
20:21
Speaker 3: in the academy as something like there's your view, there's
20:24
Speaker 3: the partner's view, there's the parent's view, and then there's
20:26
Speaker 3: the law view, which more often than not, sometimes they
20:28
Speaker 3: can be four different opinions completely. So- it's better to
20:32
Speaker 3: everyone to be on the same page, have those conversations.
20:34
Speaker 3: And I think we don't like conversations, let's be honest.
20:36
Speaker 3: Like in New Zealand, I think we're.
20:37
Speaker 2: Quite typical of let's avoid talking about things that we
20:41
Speaker 2: don't have to and we'll just do this and hope
20:43
Speaker 2: nothing goes wrong and, you know, put our head in
20:46
Speaker 2: the sand.
20:46
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
20:47
Speaker 3: Where if you have the conversation, say, hey, this is
20:49
Speaker 3: the intention, let's document it from the beginning, you will,
20:52
Speaker 3: I promise, you will end up saving tens of thousands,
20:54
Speaker 3: if not hundreds of thousands.
20:56
Speaker 4: Hundreds, like your situation. And then you've got a document
20:58
Speaker 4: that will hopefully stack up in court.
20:59
Speaker 1: Yeah.
21:00
Speaker 2: So how do people access this academy if they have
21:03
Speaker 2: been triggered by today? Yes.
21:05
Speaker 3: So the academy launches on the 3rd of November. If
21:08
Speaker 3: you go to succession.nz, you can click on our Relationship
21:10
Speaker 3: Property Academy. You can join the waitlist.
21:12
Speaker 4: We're actually giving anyone on We Need to Talk a
21:15
Speaker 4: special offer as well. Oh, I love this. Which I
21:17
Speaker 4: don't even know if I told you about today. No,
21:18
Speaker 4: but I'm here for it.
21:19
Speaker 1: Okay.
21:19
Speaker 4: Yeah.
21:20
Speaker 3: So if you do WNTT, you get $ 100 off. I
21:25
Speaker 3: think the first week or 10 days that we go
21:28
Speaker 3: live so lovely.
21:29
Speaker 2: So you put in the code WNTT which stands for
21:32
Speaker 2: we need to talk.
21:33
Speaker 3: Yes and they'll get $ 100 off the opening week just
21:37
Speaker 3: as like a thank you for listening and tuning in
21:40
Speaker 3: and hopefully yeah the idea is that you'll learn something
21:43
Speaker 3: you'll recognise yourself whether you do something right away or
21:46
Speaker 3: you now have a bit more knowledge to know when
21:48
Speaker 3: you might need to do something or a friend or
21:50
Speaker 3: a parent or you could help.
21:52
Speaker 4: Someone else that's the idea Love it.
21:54
Speaker 2: Holly, thank you so much for joining us today and
21:57
Speaker 2: good on you for all these fingers and all these
21:59
Speaker 2: different pies. I look forward to seeing where you go next.
22:02
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me.
22:03
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to We Need to Talk. Contact us
22:06
Speaker 1: on Instagram at we need to talk with Tony Street
22:09
Speaker 1: or email we need to talk at coastonline.co.nz.