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Kirby Heyborne: What Truly Saves a Man · Becoming

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Speaker 1: There is a satisfaction among men that comes from authentic fatherhood.
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Speaker 2: Today we get to have Kirby Habord on the show,
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Speaker 2: mister Kirby.
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Speaker 1: Habory, Bubba Page, thank you for having me, buddy. When
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Speaker 1: you are an authentic father, you receive a the serotonin,
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Speaker 1: the dopamine, whatever the scientific names are, that you can't
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Speaker 1: get anywhere else. And he said, that is what saves men.
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Speaker 2: It almost seems like when the kids are whether it's
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Speaker 2: crying or talking back, it essentially triggers something within us
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Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah, that trigger to me is just a
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Speaker 2: warning of something that I need to work on. Yeah. Ooh,
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Speaker 2: that's a good way to think of it. If my
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Speaker 2: mind and my heart gets tense and you know, the
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Speaker 2: fight flight, freezer fawn mode kicks in, then I'm looking
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Speaker 2: at that as okay, let me breathe through this.
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Speaker 1: Oh, here's this giant of a man, my father, my idol,
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Speaker 1: and here he is asking for my forgiveness. I feel
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Speaker 1: like it makes them love you and respect you more.
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Speaker 2: What do they need most from their fathers today?
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Speaker 1: I think it's been the same since the beginning of
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Speaker 1: the earth.
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Speaker 2: It's Hi, everybody. The name is Bubba Page. Welcome to
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Speaker 2: the Fatherhood Movement podcast. This is something that I'm so
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Speaker 2: excited to talk about. We've got fatherhood, We've got faith,
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Speaker 2: we can even incorporate finance and fitness. Today we get
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Speaker 2: to have Kirby Hayborn on the show. Mister Kirby Hayborn.
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Speaker 1: Bubba Page, thank you for having me, buddy. This is awesome,
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Speaker 1: what a treat, So so cool that what you're doing
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Speaker 1: now this is so important.
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Speaker 2: I hope, I hope. It's been one of those things
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Speaker 2: where I felt compelled to get out there and start
1:40
Speaker 2: talking about it more. And so I'm I'm the business guy, entrepreneur,
1:44
Speaker 2: that's kind of where I came from. And then this
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Speaker 2: was one of those passion projects that I thought, I
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Speaker 2: just have to do it. I have to get out there.
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Speaker 1: And what was the impetus? What was that final thing
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Speaker 1: that you said, you know what, I'm sure you'd been
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Speaker 1: ruminating on it for a while. What was that final
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Speaker 1: straw that made you say, hey, I'm going to do it.
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Speaker 2: Well, it probably doesn't it doesn't help, but I went
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Speaker 2: through a divorce coup almost a year and a half ago,
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Speaker 2: and it was I mean, I have to say that
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Speaker 2: that was probably the part that changed a lot of
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Speaker 2: my life that I didn't expect, right, And so when
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Speaker 2: you're going through something like that, you really look in
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Speaker 2: word or you have an opportunity to look in word
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Speaker 2: and think about ways that you can heal, think about
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Speaker 2: ways that you can you know, who are you? And
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Speaker 2: what about identity?
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Speaker 1: Has been that for so long?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know, as a dad with a
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Speaker 2: kids and having a social presence online, I was comfortable
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Speaker 2: already sharing my faith and things that I was doing
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Speaker 2: with my family. But I thought if I could get
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Speaker 2: other like minded individuals to be able to share some
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Speaker 2: more of their story and be able to get that
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Speaker 2: word out there more, how great could that be? And
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Speaker 2: if we can help each other, especially in the fatherhood realm.
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Speaker 2: And look, it's not obviously it won't be just fathers
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Speaker 2: that are listening to this. And so we've got other
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Speaker 2: mothers and parents, single, divorced, widowed, they're all here and
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Speaker 2: they're listening. And so but it feels like when we
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Speaker 2: when we talk about our faith and we talk about
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Speaker 2: you know, parenting your fatherhood for example, it can resonate
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Speaker 2: with anyone that's out there, even if they're preparing to
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Speaker 2: start a family. I found that some of the folks
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Speaker 2: that are coming, they want to know, like, Okay, I'm
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Speaker 2: gonna have kids, what do I need to be prepared for?
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Speaker 2: How do I keep my faith? And do you know
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Speaker 2: business and have a family? Right? Those are those those
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Speaker 2: elements elements too.
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Speaker 1: And I love that you're doing this now because there's
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Speaker 1: definitely an an awakening to this. My son just is
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Speaker 1: finishing up his master's degree and his capstone project. He's
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Speaker 1: a social worker. His capstone project had to do with
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Speaker 1: this exact thing. The he's focusing on men as a therapist.
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Speaker 1: His his focus is going to be on men. Men
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Speaker 1: are more likely to take their own life than women.
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Speaker 1: And there's a problem with masculinity right now. And one
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Speaker 1: of the things that in his big capstone study that
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Speaker 1: he spent the last year or two, I don't know,
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Speaker 1: I don't have a master's How long do you do
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Speaker 1: a catch some project? That was one thing. My wife
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Speaker 1: and I we were there at his presentation yesterday.
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Speaker 2: Just we're so proud of him. He's worked so hard.
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Speaker 1: But one of the things that he found is that
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Speaker 1: there is a satisfaction among men that comes from authentic fatherhood.
4:34
Speaker 1: When you are an authentic father, you receive the serotonin,
4:41
Speaker 1: the dopamine, whatever those scientific names are, that you can't
4:45
Speaker 1: get anywhere else. And he said, that is what saves men.
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Speaker 1: One of the things is being an authentic father. That's
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Speaker 1: what saves men.
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Speaker 2: So being an authentic father, we got to touch upon that. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: let's do it. I feel like we were taught raised,
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Speaker 2: and our fathers were taught and raised in definitely different
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Speaker 2: circumstances and their fathers were taught. I believe we're getting
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Speaker 2: to a place where we're more open to let's say,
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Speaker 2: therapy or opening up about maybe wounding or experiences in
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Speaker 2: our past, whether it's big ta traumas or little tea
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Speaker 2: traumas people call it, right, And so we're seeing this change,
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Speaker 2: this generational change. And I've heard of people talk about
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Speaker 2: generational curses, for example, and things that have whether it's
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Speaker 2: alcoholism or abuse of some kind. And my grandmother had
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Speaker 2: an abusive father. He was an alcoholic, and so luckily
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Speaker 2: my mother who was their descendant, and her mother they
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Speaker 2: were able to kind of break the chain of the
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Speaker 2: addiction of alcohol, which I'm so grateful for because I
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Speaker 2: didn't grow up in a home where that was a
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Speaker 2: problem and so how can we break more of these
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Speaker 2: generational problems that have been happening. How do we become
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Speaker 2: awake to the fact that there is a problem in
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Speaker 2: your opinion, and like, how do we become that new
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Speaker 2: version that our kids need now while still holding true
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Speaker 2: to the core values that maybe we were taught growing up.
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Speaker 2: What do you think that's so hard?
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Speaker 1: Because you do see that generational trauma that is so
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Speaker 1: hard to break. The abuse, the alcoholism, all of that
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Speaker 1: is really hard. I come from a similar history as well,
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Speaker 1: and my wife and I just we had to make
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Speaker 1: a conscientious decision. You don't give into it. I know
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Speaker 1: it's easy to say, but my inclination. I got spanked
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Speaker 1: a lot as a kid, and that's how I was raised,
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Speaker 1: and so my first inclination when a kid did something
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Speaker 1: that I felt like was an attack on me. And
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Speaker 1: I'm realizing now that that's maybe how my mom felt
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Speaker 1: was an attack on her when it wasn't. You have
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Speaker 1: to struggle against that inclination because that's what you're taught
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Speaker 1: growing up. But I think it's just making that one decision.
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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it. I think it helps.
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Speaker 1: My wife is perfect and amazing and she has a
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Speaker 1: psychology degree. I think her going through that in her
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Speaker 1: studies she helped both of us realize the best way
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Speaker 1: to parent is from a place of love and encouragement
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Speaker 1: as opposed to with wooden spoon or a metal spoon
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Speaker 1: or the back of your hand. And you just it
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Speaker 1: was challenging, I think at first, but then you realize
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Speaker 1: I think just as human beings. And you mentioned therapy.
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Speaker 1: I have gained such an affinity for therapy. You learn
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Speaker 1: that how you perceive things aren't always the case.
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Speaker 2: It's a reality to you.
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Speaker 1: But the amount of people that are actually thinking about you,
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Speaker 1: wanting to hurt you are maybe zero people you know,
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Speaker 1: and so you just need to accept it that the
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Speaker 1: only real relationship and the only thing that you can
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Speaker 1: change is yourself, and the only important relationship. To me,
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Speaker 1: the most important is my relationship with my heavenly father.
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Speaker 1: And when I've connected with my heavenly father, I see
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Speaker 1: better who I am. I'm more patient with people. I
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Speaker 1: still mess up and get angry, I'll frustrated, but the
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Speaker 1: stronger my relationship with my heavenly Father is, the better.
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Speaker 1: I am able to not want to spank my kids
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Speaker 1: when they were younger or the more I wanted to
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Speaker 1: authentically connect with them, so I think, but how do
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Speaker 1: you get to that point? I felt like I needed
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Speaker 1: to be slapped across the face to say you don't
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Speaker 1: need to do it this way, that your kid crying
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Speaker 1: is not necessarily an attack on you. But you kind
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Speaker 1: of feel that. So I don't know what it was.
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Speaker 2: It almost seems like when the kids are whether it's
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Speaker 2: crying or talking back, or it essentially triggers something within us.
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Speaker 1: Oh for sure.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. And so for me, whenever a trigger has come,
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Speaker 2: whether it's from a spouse or from a kid, or
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Speaker 2: from somebody at work or whatever, or even the person
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Speaker 2: driving next to you, whatever it is, that trigger to
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Speaker 2: me is just a warning of something that I need
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Speaker 2: to work on. Oh that's a good way to So
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Speaker 2: if my mind in my heart gets tense and you know,
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Speaker 2: the fight flight, freezer, fawn mode kicks in, then I'm
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Speaker 2: looking at that as okay, let me breathe through this.
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Speaker 2: Usually those emotions take time to get.
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Speaker 1: Because our first inclination is human beings, I think, is
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Speaker 1: to fight do all that stuff.
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Speaker 2: What is it?
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Speaker 1: Because I feel the same, but I don't know if
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Speaker 1: I can pinpoint one instance where it was, oh, I'm
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Speaker 1: happier if I a breath and react. My wife call
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Speaker 1: is it the resurrection choice, which is in any case,
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Speaker 1: whether it's good news, bad news, anything where you have
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Speaker 1: to make a decision, you have to wait three days.
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Speaker 1: Your first day, let it sit, let it live or die.
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Speaker 1: The second day, sit with it, third day, come out
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Speaker 1: with new insight.
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Speaker 2: So that's fascinating. I think the trigger, the trigger idea
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Speaker 2: and how you come to be you become more self
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Speaker 2: aware to when those triggers are happening in your body.
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Speaker 2: One it's it's learning about what our bodies do when
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Speaker 2: that happens. How does it affect you? Where do you
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Speaker 2: feel it? Is it in your throat? Is it in
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Speaker 2: your chest? Is it your stomach? And if you get this?
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Speaker 2: For me, I had to go through therapy and coaches
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Speaker 2: and healing retreats and lots of books that really helped.
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Speaker 2: Some of the books that I really loved, there's one
10:50
Speaker 2: called how to Do the Work by Nicole Leprera. She
10:55
Speaker 2: also wrote How to Become the Love You Seek, which
10:57
Speaker 2: I think is a fascinating read. There was one called
10:59
Speaker 2: Attachment or Attached sorry Attached and it's all about attachment styles,
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Speaker 2: whether someone's anxiously attached or avoidantly attached, with the goal
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Speaker 2: of becoming more secure. And the idea behind that book
11:12
Speaker 2: is that we all have these insecurities, typically based upon
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Speaker 2: our childhood, and when we have insecurities, something that triggers
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Speaker 2: us is triggering that insecurity. So as a parent, when
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Speaker 2: a child or spouse does something that triggers us, it
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Speaker 2: really is us triggering ourselves because someone else could have
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Speaker 2: received that same stimuli and not have responded in the
11:38
Speaker 2: same way. So technically, Tony Robbins talks about this being
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Speaker 2: we trigger ourselves and I love another quote he has
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Speaker 2: where it's life isn't happening to you? Sometimes it's like,
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Speaker 2: why did this happen to me? Why did I have
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Speaker 2: to go through this? Why me? And he said, life
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Speaker 2: is happening.
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Speaker 1: For us, beautiful.
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Speaker 2: And so when I try, when I receive a tense
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Speaker 2: moment and I can feel my body getting, you know,
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Speaker 2: a little more high tension to me, I know that
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Speaker 2: that's some sort of a trigger coming in. Yeah, and
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Speaker 2: what I've trained my and it's taken time, and I'm
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Speaker 2: not perfect at it, just like you said, but now
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Speaker 2: I know when those feelings come that I need to breathe.
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Speaker 2: According to some studies, it says that ninety seconds is
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Speaker 2: usually how long the emotion lasts. If we can last
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Speaker 2: for ninety seconds without reaction, so we breathe typically in
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Speaker 2: I love the box breathing. Some people call it five
12:35
Speaker 2: seconds in through the nose, hold for five seconds out
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Speaker 2: for about ten seconds. If you can do that, do
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Speaker 2: that a few times, it doesn't take too long to
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Speaker 2: give you ninety seconds before you react.
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Speaker 1: What I think is important too, that I've learned from
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Speaker 1: my therapist wife and my therapist's son is acknowledging the emotion.
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Speaker 1: Realize that here is sadness, here is anger, here's joy,
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Speaker 1: it is feeling that I'm feeling that, and then you
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Speaker 1: can take that those breaths, yeah, because I think if
13:08
Speaker 1: we deny the the emotion, then it just gets lots
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Speaker 1: of it and it's then it'll come bursting out.
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Speaker 2: It'll be harder to breathe through it. But well, I
13:17
Speaker 2: did that for forty years. That was a problem is
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Speaker 2: that I felt like everything that I was taught growing
13:21
Speaker 2: up I didn't recognize. And I'm sure they tried, and
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Speaker 2: I just didn't understand because My parents are wonderful. I
13:28
Speaker 2: love them to death, but I don't think I understood
13:31
Speaker 2: recognizing those emotions. And so I just knew how to
13:33
Speaker 2: shove it down. Just shove it down, and just keep working.
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Speaker 2: If you work harder, things will always work. And so
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Speaker 2: I learned the lesson of working hard, but the lesson
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Speaker 2: of actually processing emotion. I didn't know how to do that,
13:47
Speaker 2: and it is a process of practice. Journaling is a
13:51
Speaker 2: phenomenal way for me to get it out there. What's
13:54
Speaker 2: interesting is even having a verbal conversation like this, Oh
13:57
Speaker 2: for sure. Yeah, for me, it is very loud. So
14:00
Speaker 2: are great. Yeah, of taking some of the hardest things
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Speaker 2: of my life and being able to talk openly, being
14:06
Speaker 2: vulnerable about the actual, you know, problems that are deep inside.
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Speaker 2: Because when I would shove things down, it was like, Okay,
14:13
Speaker 2: as long as I just shove it down, I won't
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Speaker 2: see it again. And like you said, sometimes they bottle
14:18
Speaker 2: the bottle, you know, it bottles up for pressure.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So this is all great stuff to talk about, Bubba.
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Speaker 1: This podcast is to help people.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So do you have a book coming out? Do you
14:30
Speaker 1: have anything to say? Because I feel like we've practiced
14:34
Speaker 1: this now and it's taken years in practice and heartache
14:37
Speaker 1: and and it's been hard. So now how do you
14:41
Speaker 1: and I how do we now encourage men or women
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Speaker 1: and we're listening or watching this, what's the first step
14:47
Speaker 1: they can take?
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Speaker 2: Yeah? I love that? What can we do? So the
14:50
Speaker 2: reason I again the reason I created the Fatherhood movement,
14:53
Speaker 2: so Fatherhood Movement dot com. I wanted to create a
14:57
Speaker 2: community of people. So you have a men's group and
15:00
Speaker 2: women's group so that we can talk openly. Because usually
15:04
Speaker 2: if the other genders in the room, it's harder for
15:06
Speaker 2: some people to be as open and vulnerable with their feelings.
15:10
Speaker 2: So having a men's group in a women's group where
15:12
Speaker 2: where they can discuss some of the positives and the
15:14
Speaker 2: negatives that are going on in their life with some guidance.
15:18
Speaker 2: And so you know, I'm not a certified therapist, I'm
15:20
Speaker 2: not licensed, So bringing in some of those experts to
15:24
Speaker 2: be able to help moderate those discussions. And then yes,
15:29
Speaker 2: a book actually bring it up, thank you, so Fatherhood.
15:37
Speaker 2: It's called father Operating System. And the idea behind this
15:42
Speaker 2: book is to take the resources and the structures. Again
15:46
Speaker 2: I'm not the expert, but there's all these experts that
15:48
Speaker 2: are out there that have written amazing content, and I'm
15:52
Speaker 2: bringing a lot of those pieces and putting them into
15:54
Speaker 2: one area where it's a resource and a guide. Yes,
15:58
Speaker 2: it's not just for fathers, even though it says the
16:00
Speaker 2: father operating system. But the idea behind is some structural
16:04
Speaker 2: plans for your family. When you get married and you
16:07
Speaker 2: start a family, or you're ten years in of your family,
16:12
Speaker 2: there was still not a book written for you. I
16:15
Speaker 2: hope to provide some level of book so that it
16:18
Speaker 2: can be almost like a manual to follow. And so
16:21
Speaker 2: there will be things like if and I related to
16:25
Speaker 2: my entrepreneurial career, So as a CEO, I would meet
16:28
Speaker 2: one on one with my team. If I meet one
16:30
Speaker 2: on one with my team and we discuss goals, and
16:32
Speaker 2: we discuss concerns, and we discuss you know, what are
16:35
Speaker 2: they wanting out of this position? Why don't I do
16:38
Speaker 2: that with my kids? Why don't I do that with
16:40
Speaker 2: my spouse? And it's not you know that we can
16:43
Speaker 2: be a partner in this and discussed like we're partners
16:45
Speaker 2: in a company. I know I've had co founders and
16:47
Speaker 2: partners and we have these deep dive discussions of strategy
16:51
Speaker 2: and what are we going to plan and do? Why
16:53
Speaker 2: don't we do that in our home?
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Speaker 1: That's the most important relationships you have, Yeah, more important
16:59
Speaker 1: than any co founder. For CEO position, that relationship with
17:04
Speaker 1: your family is the most important, which I think also
17:07
Speaker 1: is why when that relationship isn't strong, that's where trauma
17:13
Speaker 1: comes from. Oh sure, that's why I think we go
17:15
Speaker 1: back to, Oh I was neglected as a kid, or
17:18
Speaker 1: whatever it is. You go back, like you said, to
17:21
Speaker 1: your childhood experiences. So I feel like if we were healed,
17:27
Speaker 1: if we all took breaths, if we let kids run
17:30
Speaker 1: and get dirty in our backyards and stuff, and also
17:35
Speaker 1: loved them immensely and had these conversations with them, I
17:39
Speaker 1: know society as a whole would be better. I have
17:44
Speaker 1: such a strong feeling and I feel like knowledge too
17:49
Speaker 1: of how important that familial relationship is. And I've been
17:54
Speaker 1: so lucky to have done that, gone on this journey.
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Speaker 1: It's been We've my wife and I've almost been married
18:00
Speaker 1: thirty years, which is amazing, And it's been thirty years
18:04
Speaker 1: of lifting each other and lifting the kids, and I
18:09
Speaker 1: garner more satisfaction from that than any other relationship. It's
18:13
Speaker 1: with my kids. It's seeing them succeed. And I'm sure
18:17
Speaker 1: like you've got young kids too. Aren't you so proud
18:19
Speaker 1: of them when you see them interact with an adult
18:22
Speaker 1: and they're looking at them in the eye. That's like
18:25
Speaker 1: when you're you know, not that you fantasize being a dad,
18:28
Speaker 1: but when you're kind of romanticizing it, like when you're
18:31
Speaker 1: first starting out on the journey. You don't think that
18:35
Speaker 1: you would have moments of pride of there's my son
18:39
Speaker 1: shaking that old woman's hand, who's telling him, now, look
18:42
Speaker 1: me in the eye, and he is already You know
18:45
Speaker 1: you have. You don't think you're going to be celebrating
18:47
Speaker 1: moments like that, but you do.
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Speaker 2: Yeah for sure. Yeah, Okay, I love it. I love
18:51
Speaker 2: that you writing this book thirty years. Yes, the book book,
18:54
Speaker 2: it's I'm working on. It takes longer than I thought
18:56
Speaker 2: it would, sure, but it'll incorporate a lot of the
18:59
Speaker 2: different things. From a working standpoint, if you have KPIs
19:02
Speaker 2: and goals and things, why don't you do that in
19:04
Speaker 2: the home? I love? And then from a spiritual standpoint,
19:06
Speaker 2: how do you lead and take charge? But I wanted
19:10
Speaker 2: to ask you from the faith perspective of being a dad. Yeah,
19:15
Speaker 2: and now in marriage of thirty years, you've, to my understanding,
19:21
Speaker 2: have kept the faith and you've been able to continue
19:24
Speaker 2: your belief in Jesus Christ throughout this whole process. No doubts.
19:27
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've had ups and downs, just like all
19:29
Speaker 2: of us in our faith and testimony as we build.
19:33
Speaker 2: How have you led from the faith side in your
19:36
Speaker 2: home without it feeling preachy or controlling? Or can you
19:42
Speaker 2: help us just from your experience, how have you gone
19:45
Speaker 2: through that?
19:45
Speaker 1: We have never really done the everybody, come sit down.
19:50
Speaker 1: We have some important stuff we need to talk to
19:52
Speaker 1: you about. It's overabowl of cereal. It's feeling safe enough
19:58
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable to say I had this experience with
20:03
Speaker 1: Jesus today and it was awesome, and then letting it
20:07
Speaker 1: go like that, especially when they're younger, and then especially
20:11
Speaker 1: especially when they're teenagers, because they don't really want to
20:14
Speaker 1: listen to you. Then they know a lot more than
20:17
Speaker 1: you do.
20:17
Speaker 2: I'm just entering that phase and I'm are almost done
20:20
Speaker 2: with that.
20:21
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen that that they do know more
20:24
Speaker 1: than you know. It's not turning it into a sermon.
20:30
Speaker 1: Being natural and organic in talking about your faith, and
20:35
Speaker 1: that has been I think so beneficial to our three kids.
20:39
Speaker 1: We now those are our favorite things on Sundays when
20:43
Speaker 1: we're all together, is to talk about the beauty of
20:47
Speaker 1: Jesus and how we saw God's hand this week. It's
20:51
Speaker 1: just like anything, you build the muscle to be able
20:53
Speaker 1: to do that. And if we had been preachy, and
20:58
Speaker 1: I grew up in an era of faith where it
21:03
Speaker 1: was this or nothing, very strict and it's almost a
21:09
Speaker 1: form of idol worship, it's well, the leader says this,
21:12
Speaker 1: so this is what you have to do, rather than
21:14
Speaker 1: the why behind. So we made sure that we always
21:16
Speaker 1: had a why behind something. And when you were saying
21:20
Speaker 1: something like the thing I love about my relationship with
21:23
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ is I feel confidence. No one can argue that.
21:29
Speaker 1: And so when I speak like that to my kids,
21:32
Speaker 1: I feel like it's now just an organic conversation. It's
21:35
Speaker 1: never been preachy. I didn't like it. It always felt awkward.
21:39
Speaker 1: All right, everybody sit down, we're going to have a
21:41
Speaker 1: family counsel. But we do still do that. It's just
21:45
Speaker 1: a part of who we are. Struct different, yes, yeah,
21:49
Speaker 1: So it's making it as organic and it's as a father,
21:54
Speaker 1: be vulnerable enough to let your kids, I think especially
21:57
Speaker 1: your sons, see that you rely on a higher power,
22:03
Speaker 1: so that when they come to you and you don't
22:04
Speaker 1: have an answer, you can get out of the way
22:06
Speaker 1: and say, oh, I don't have the answer. But I
22:09
Speaker 1: feel like if you were to pray, you would feel
22:12
Speaker 1: an answer. I think that they would just trust you
22:15
Speaker 1: to know that you can be vulnerable. But yeah, I
22:18
Speaker 1: think it just comes back to don't be preachy interesting,
22:22
Speaker 1: don't make everything a sermon, don't make everything in improv
22:25
Speaker 1: There's a game called Oscar winning moment, and every line
22:29
Speaker 1: has to be so thick and full of emotion.
22:35
Speaker 2: Don't do that.
22:36
Speaker 1: Just say hey, dude, I love Jesus and let it
22:39
Speaker 1: go with that.
22:40
Speaker 2: Let it go with that. That's fascinating. I found this
22:43
Speaker 2: sometimes when I'm in that gospel discussion, whether it's they've
22:47
Speaker 2: asked a question and I'm, you know, almost shocked that
22:49
Speaker 2: they've asked some gospel related, you know, question, and getting
22:53
Speaker 2: a chance to just share my thoughts and feelings. The
22:55
Speaker 2: vulnerability part has been super helpful to me. I wasn't
22:58
Speaker 2: always as open and ulnerable, and I feel like as
23:01
Speaker 2: i've taken a deeper dive into my own soul through
23:05
Speaker 2: this healing process. It's opened up this vulnerable side, and
23:10
Speaker 2: I can recognize when my kids see me being more
23:14
Speaker 2: vulnerable with them. If I'm struggling with something. It's not
23:17
Speaker 2: that I'm going to everything right, parental problem, You're not
23:21
Speaker 2: your spouse, right, Yeah, But I want them to know
23:25
Speaker 2: if I mess up and I come to apologize that
23:28
Speaker 2: that vulnerability of me apologizing to my kid is something
23:32
Speaker 2: I want them to emulate. And if I don't do that,
23:35
Speaker 2: how are they going to learn to do that? Because
23:36
Speaker 2: obviously I mess up and so have you noted to.
23:39
Speaker 1: Do How quick they are to forgive if you raise
23:42
Speaker 1: your voice or if you said something out of anger.
23:45
Speaker 1: When you come and apologize to your kid, there's something
23:50
Speaker 1: that clicks, And I think it's like, Oh, here's this
23:52
Speaker 1: giant of a man, my father, my idol, and here
23:56
Speaker 1: he is asking for my forgiveness. I feel like it
23:59
Speaker 1: makes them love you and respect you more, and they're
24:02
Speaker 1: so quick to forgive as so quick. But it's so
24:05
Speaker 1: hard to do that because you're right, your dad, you
24:09
Speaker 1: know it all.
24:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that has been a huge difference for me.
24:13
Speaker 2: Is coming and apologizing when I've done something that wasn't
24:17
Speaker 2: as optimal as it could have been, and I've recognized
24:20
Speaker 2: the closeness that it's brought between whether it's a son
24:23
Speaker 2: or a daughter. And so I'd highly recommend that to
24:26
Speaker 2: anybody's who's listening, if you've had a chance to, if
24:29
Speaker 2: you haven't apologized lately, maybe it would be a good
24:32
Speaker 2: time to try to try and do that. I wanted
24:34
Speaker 2: to ask you about your storytelling because so with your
24:36
Speaker 2: amazing career, Yeah, you've done so many things from movies
24:41
Speaker 2: to improv like you talked about, you're on stage all
24:43
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, so how has storytelling helped you better
24:48
Speaker 2: develop your or understand like God and your faith the
24:54
Speaker 2: storytelling element of your whole career. That's a good question.
24:57
Speaker 2: How does that or even understanding your We're all are.
25:02
Speaker 1: The hero in our own story, and that's very ego driven,
25:08
Speaker 1: I think understanding when you're telling a story that, especially
25:13
Speaker 1: on a film or in a theater production, there's more
25:16
Speaker 1: than just the person on the stage or in front
25:18
Speaker 1: of the camera. There's a hundred other people that are
25:22
Speaker 1: as important and nothing can happen without the rest of
25:26
Speaker 1: the people. So as far as storytelling goes, it's looking
25:30
Speaker 1: at it as a storyteller. I might be the voice
25:33
Speaker 1: or the face of something, but there's the support of
25:37
Speaker 1: one hundred people that are just as important. And I
25:40
Speaker 1: think once you acknowledge that, that also helps you realize
25:44
Speaker 1: that God is the author of this story and no
25:50
Speaker 1: matter what he wants, this hero in this story that
25:53
Speaker 1: I'm telling to succeed and be happy and be the
25:57
Speaker 1: best hero. And when you understand that, then when you
26:01
Speaker 1: go through a hard time like a divorce, if you think,
26:07
Speaker 1: how can what is the author thinking right now? Oh,
26:11
Speaker 1: this redemption story is going to be even greater because
26:16
Speaker 1: I just need to turn five more chapters And there's
26:18
Speaker 1: bubb a page rising writing a book on how to
26:22
Speaker 1: help fathers. But still you have to go through. And
26:25
Speaker 1: when you recognize that there's a greater author, there's a
26:29
Speaker 1: group of I believe in angels around me as well,
26:32
Speaker 1: supporting me, lifting me up. When you realize that there's
26:35
Speaker 1: a greater author that knows that this story is so
26:38
Speaker 1: freaking awesome. But in order to make this character compelling,
26:44
Speaker 1: I got to make him suffer a little bit. I
26:45
Speaker 1: got to make him go through some hard things. Otherwise
26:47
Speaker 1: nobody will really care, and I think especially the hero.
26:51
Speaker 1: The hero doesn't know.
26:55
Speaker 2: That they are important.
26:56
Speaker 1: Until they go through something hard.
26:58
Speaker 2: Interesting somebody told me recently. They said people can suffer
27:03
Speaker 2: and be in that suffering, but they said to feel joy,
27:09
Speaker 2: you have to have some form of suffering to bring joy.
27:12
Speaker 2: And it was a fascinating concept. And look, I wouldn't
27:17
Speaker 2: wish divorce on my worst enemy. That's one of those
27:19
Speaker 2: things that it's a hellish experience to go through. But
27:23
Speaker 2: I can look back now. The whole process is about
27:27
Speaker 2: a two and a half year process, and officially about
27:29
Speaker 2: a year and a half. But the one thing I'm
27:33
Speaker 2: grateful for is being able to again look inward and
27:37
Speaker 2: dig deep. We can't change anyone else but ourselves, and
27:41
Speaker 2: so to be able to find what are the things
27:42
Speaker 2: that God needed to teach me through this moment And
27:45
Speaker 2: there was a core moment. It was like a lightning
27:50
Speaker 2: strike when I knew I couldn't get out of this
27:54
Speaker 2: depth of hell until I had learned at least one
27:58
Speaker 2: part that God wanted me to learn, and I was
28:03
Speaker 2: Actually it was funny. I was on the phone with
28:04
Speaker 2: a therapist at the time doing a zoom call and
28:07
Speaker 2: as I was expressing, I just feel that I have
28:10
Speaker 2: to learn something and I don't know what it is.
28:13
Speaker 2: That I had this experience happen right then and there
28:15
Speaker 2: on the phone. It was almost like I could visualize.
28:18
Speaker 2: And I'll keep this story short, but the biggest words
28:22
Speaker 2: that came into my mind right in that moment was
28:24
Speaker 2: a banner that said the words charity, and I thought
28:27
Speaker 2: to myself, if so to me, this was an answer
28:30
Speaker 2: to my prayers. I had been praying, how do I
28:33
Speaker 2: learn what God needs me to learn through this or
28:36
Speaker 2: at least begin on the learning path, And that big
28:40
Speaker 2: and bold banner sign in my faith, yeah, my face,
28:45
Speaker 2: was an answer for me to understand, Okay, I need
28:46
Speaker 2: to learn the pure love of Christ for those around me,
28:51
Speaker 2: whether it's my children or their mom, or their family members,
28:57
Speaker 2: or whoever it was that had either in my whole
29:01
Speaker 2: life or career. Has anyone hurt me or have I
29:04
Speaker 2: felt like there was something that wasn't as optimal in
29:09
Speaker 2: my life? How could I have the pure love of
29:11
Speaker 2: Christ for those people? And it's not like it I
29:16
Speaker 2: learned and earned that piece right then and there in
29:18
Speaker 2: the moment, but I knew that that was my goal
29:21
Speaker 2: and that was my target to find that spiritual gift.
29:25
Speaker 1: And I bet an a bet in the middle of that.
29:28
Speaker 1: That was the hardest word that God could have presented
29:31
Speaker 1: to you, Right, Yeah, for sure, it's like the last
29:36
Speaker 1: thing you want to feel when you're going through something
29:38
Speaker 1: hard like that. But because it was the hardest, it
29:43
Speaker 1: was the most important.
29:44
Speaker 2: Yeah. He knew exactly what I needed in that exact
29:48
Speaker 2: moment of time. And that's where I can be grateful.
29:53
Speaker 2: I can be grateful for that experience because I think,
29:56
Speaker 2: and I hope whoever's watching and listening, we know you're
30:00
Speaker 2: going through something hard. You're going through whether it's in
30:04
Speaker 2: your personal life, or it's your child, or if it's
30:06
Speaker 2: your spouse, or if it's your friend. You know, whatever
30:09
Speaker 2: it is, everyone is going through something. If you've ever
30:13
Speaker 2: felt separated from God, his hand is his arm is
30:17
Speaker 2: outstretched still still, and it's our duty to reach out.
30:24
Speaker 2: And I felt like as I leaned in during that
30:28
Speaker 2: hard moment in my life, that was the only way
30:32
Speaker 2: I could survive. And I feel horrible when people have
30:36
Speaker 2: to go through these horrible experiences in their life, whatever
30:39
Speaker 2: it is a loss of someone or horrible sickness or
30:42
Speaker 2: tragedy or addictions that when they pull themselves away from
30:48
Speaker 2: God and that support mechanism and that love and that depth,
30:53
Speaker 2: just know that he's there and he wants to be
30:55
Speaker 2: there with you and to feel and hear everything you
30:57
Speaker 2: have to say, because that's saving grace for me. Well,
31:01
Speaker 2: I appreciate you bringing it up. That's one of those
31:04
Speaker 2: touching things, that's for sure. What do you think kids
31:08
Speaker 2: need today from fathers? What do they need most from
31:13
Speaker 2: their fathers today?
31:15
Speaker 1: I think it's been the same since the beginning of
31:19
Speaker 1: the earth. It's time. I was fortunate that cell phones
31:24
Speaker 1: didn't really exist when I was raising my kids, so
31:27
Speaker 1: I didn't have that temptation to be looking at my
31:31
Speaker 1: phone when I needed to be engaging with my kids.
31:35
Speaker 1: So man, dads today have it harder, I think in
31:39
Speaker 1: that regard to just be present because our brains are
31:44
Speaker 1: trained to get that instant dopamine hit just even a
31:47
Speaker 1: text message. But the most important thing is to be
31:51
Speaker 1: present for both the kid and for you to help.
31:55
Speaker 2: Us know some tips on being present. So we talked
31:58
Speaker 2: about phone. Yeah, so if you're coming home from work,
32:02
Speaker 2: you're silencing it, you're putting it away, or what are
32:04
Speaker 2: some other ways, and this works for parents in general,
32:08
Speaker 2: But how do we become the most present we can be.
32:13
Speaker 1: First thing that I do whenever I come home is
32:16
Speaker 1: I kiss my wife. That's the first thing. And then
32:19
Speaker 1: I go around and I when they all were under
32:22
Speaker 1: the same roof, we only have one at home.
32:24
Speaker 2: Now.
32:26
Speaker 1: It's a touch, it's a physical touch. Or when they're
32:29
Speaker 1: leaving for school, they do not leave, no matter how
32:33
Speaker 1: much they fight without a hug from me. And you know,
32:37
Speaker 1: as they're older and they're teenagers, it could happen. But
32:41
Speaker 1: I would always say, this could be the last hug
32:43
Speaker 1: we ever have, so you better make it count because
32:46
Speaker 1: something could happen to me or you before you get
32:48
Speaker 1: back from school. So let's make it count. And then
32:52
Speaker 1: it goes from oh two and just treating every moment
32:55
Speaker 1: like there's a great book that I narrated that was
32:59
Speaker 1: so pointly beautifulest from the perspective of a dad, and
33:03
Speaker 1: he said, there's a moment in your life that your
33:09
Speaker 1: kids aren't gonna want you to read them a story,
33:13
Speaker 1: and you want to go back to that. Dad on
33:16
Speaker 1: if you knew the night that that was the last
33:19
Speaker 1: night you would stay at the threshold of that door
33:23
Speaker 1: a little longer when they were saying.
33:25
Speaker 2: Dad, Dad, Dad, Dad, But wait, wait, wait wait wait.
33:27
Speaker 1: Instead of thinking, oh, I gotta go do this, I
33:30
Speaker 1: gotta go check an email, I gotta go do whatever
33:33
Speaker 1: it is, there's nothing more important than that moment right there.
33:37
Speaker 1: And every dad would go back and tell that dad
33:41
Speaker 1: and say, dude, this is the last time. Stay yeah,
33:47
Speaker 1: stay in that doorway, Go get another drink of water
33:51
Speaker 1: for him, cuddle with them, cauz.
33:55
Speaker 2: It goes away.
33:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, next thing you know, they're graduating with a master's degree,
34:00
Speaker 1: telling you things that you never learned yourself.
34:04
Speaker 2: You know.
34:04
Speaker 1: It's but those are the precious moments that being present
34:08
Speaker 1: is so important, and they go away.
34:11
Speaker 2: They go away. So knowing that every parent has felt this,
34:16
Speaker 2: Every parent has felt the whether it's the frustration that
34:20
Speaker 2: they're not getting enough done that they have to clean
34:23
Speaker 2: up the messes at the end of the day, the
34:25
Speaker 2: overwhelm of all the things on the checklist they didn't
34:28
Speaker 2: do because they were more present with their kids. And
34:33
Speaker 2: so at the end of the day, when it's finally
34:36
Speaker 2: this moment to okay, I'm going to go and try
34:38
Speaker 2: and get all these other things done. Dishes, done. You're right,
34:41
Speaker 2: because that plagues all of us to be able to
34:46
Speaker 2: take that moment and just remember this is not going
34:49
Speaker 2: to last forever. Its fleeting, and so I think this
34:53
Speaker 2: is such a great moment. It's a reminder for me too.
34:56
Speaker 2: Having eight children. Bedtime takes a long time. I can't
34:59
Speaker 2: even imagine a long time. And so we we've done
35:03
Speaker 2: it where the twins go to bed at one time,
35:06
Speaker 2: and so, you know, we we like to sing a
35:08
Speaker 2: little song and say a prayer together. And you know,
35:12
Speaker 2: about a year ago is fascinating. We didn't do this before,
35:15
Speaker 2: but now we like to kneel down and pray and
35:18
Speaker 2: we'll try and even hold hands. And it's quite hilarious
35:21
Speaker 2: when six and seven year olds are holding hands and
35:24
Speaker 2: they're wiggles and they're all, you know, strying to this.
35:26
Speaker 2: But but we've been we've been doing that more frequently.
35:31
Speaker 2: As we sing a song. We were usually singing a
35:33
Speaker 2: type of a faith based song. Right you can call
35:36
Speaker 2: it primary song and call it a because I want
35:40
Speaker 2: them to have that type of a song going into
35:43
Speaker 2: their sleep and then when they wake up, I'm hoping
35:46
Speaker 2: that that song is kind of still playing in their mind.
35:49
Speaker 2: One I think from a spiritual protection standpoint. I believe
35:53
Speaker 2: some of those songs are like a prayer to God,
35:56
Speaker 2: and as we as we sing those songs, it's as
35:59
Speaker 2: if we're calling and praying. And then obviously the prayer
36:02
Speaker 2: and I invite angels into our home. I believe, like
36:06
Speaker 2: you just mentioned, we probably already have them there, but
36:09
Speaker 2: I'm going to invite them anyway because I want them
36:12
Speaker 2: there for protection. I want them there if the scriptures
36:15
Speaker 2: talking about them speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost,
36:18
Speaker 2: angels speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost, and
36:20
Speaker 2: by the power of the Holy ghosts we can know
36:21
Speaker 2: the truth of all things. I want them there. Whether
36:24
Speaker 2: it's our ancestors. I don't know if they've signed contracts
36:27
Speaker 2: to be with my kids or I don't know how
36:30
Speaker 2: that works. But I envision these angels family members who
36:35
Speaker 2: know that are there and helping to tuck them in,
36:38
Speaker 2: helping them go to sleep, helping them to have good dreams,
36:40
Speaker 2: and when they don't have good dreams. First thing we
36:42
Speaker 2: do is sing a song, we say a prayer together.
36:44
Speaker 1: See, that's what a great thing. It's a natural thing
36:48
Speaker 1: for your kids to sing a faith based song together.
36:53
Speaker 1: That's natural. So when they grow up, they'll have that strength.
36:56
Speaker 1: It wasn't because you said time out.
36:57
Speaker 2: Guys.
36:58
Speaker 1: This is what we do is pages, this is how
37:01
Speaker 1: we do it. It's just hey, let's sing the song.
37:04
Speaker 1: That's so important To do it that way.
37:06
Speaker 2: Well, I found when when the kids get frustrated, as
37:09
Speaker 2: I've learned myself to call my nervous system a little
37:12
Speaker 2: bit better, I'm now teaching my kids to do the same,
37:15
Speaker 2: so breathing, if they get hurt or if they're frustrated
37:18
Speaker 2: at their brother sister, I'm trying to help them to
37:22
Speaker 2: calm that nervous system to be more regulated. And I've
37:26
Speaker 2: watched as you get these different you know, the twins
37:28
Speaker 2: go to bed at one time, than my seven year
37:31
Speaker 2: old is next, and then i have nine and eleven
37:32
Speaker 2: in their next, and then I've got my teenagers, and
37:35
Speaker 2: so you know, it usually ends up being an hour
37:39
Speaker 2: to two hour process when you're including you know, books
37:42
Speaker 2: and reading and and it is a beautiful it's a
37:47
Speaker 2: beautiful thing. And I think about my priorities in life.
37:50
Speaker 2: That's that's got to be some of the most important
37:53
Speaker 2: moments that I spend every day. So as you've done this,
37:58
Speaker 2: and I love hearing from your perspective, because I'm such
38:01
Speaker 2: on the beginning phase and we have listeners from both sides. Right,
38:05
Speaker 2: you now have your last one about to leave, and
38:10
Speaker 2: you're going back and you're telling your you know, twenty
38:12
Speaker 2: your previous father self. What are the key pieces in
38:18
Speaker 2: your mind that you're trying And I know we only
38:20
Speaker 2: have maybe one other question after this. What are some
38:23
Speaker 2: of those key principles that you would tell the dad
38:26
Speaker 2: from twenty years ago.
38:28
Speaker 1: I think we've already touched on them. Be vulnerable, ask
38:31
Speaker 1: for forgiveness, and be present in every way. I think
38:37
Speaker 1: it's those Those are the main things, and they're simple
38:41
Speaker 1: and they're easy to say, harder to do.
38:46
Speaker 2: But that's good. I love it. Clip that. We'll make
38:50
Speaker 2: sure you write that down if.
38:52
Speaker 1: Brighter that on a pillow.
38:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, last question, I want to ask if
38:57
Speaker 2: your kids could say one thing about your faith and
38:59
Speaker 2: your fatherhood someday, what would you hope it is.
39:04
Speaker 1: I hope they say that I lived what I said
39:07
Speaker 1: I believed.
39:10
Speaker 2: That's beautiful. Yeah, Kirby, I love having here. There's so
39:14
Speaker 2: much more we can talk about. There's so much more
39:16
Speaker 2: we can do.
39:17
Speaker 1: Ten hour podcasts. Seriously, you got to get together again.
39:21
Speaker 2: We do. We'll do this again. Honestly, thank you for
39:24
Speaker 2: those who are watching, who are listening. This is the
39:27
Speaker 2: Fatherhood Movement Podcast. Your host, Bubba Page, our guest Kirby Hayborne.
39:32
Speaker 2: We've got to tell them where they can find you,
39:34
Speaker 2: and then you've got at least mention your most recent project. Yeah,
39:37
Speaker 2: so that everybody knows. So where can they go and
39:39
Speaker 2: find you?
39:40
Speaker 1: You can go to Kirbyhaborn dot com. All of my
39:43
Speaker 1: social media is just Kirby Hayborn, and Hayborn is spelled
39:46
Speaker 1: people get it wrong. Page is an easier one to spell.
39:49
Speaker 1: Hayborn is h E y b O r n E.
39:53
Speaker 1: And the most recent thing that I'm doing is something
39:56
Speaker 1: I'm passionate about. It's called the Help Them See Foundation.
39:59
Speaker 1: If you go to Help Them See Foundation dot org
40:02
Speaker 1: you can learn all about it. We're bringing to light
40:06
Speaker 1: values and faith based films with a like minded audience
40:11
Speaker 1: where we're bridging donors with productions that help people see.
40:19
Speaker 2: And can anyone become a donor to anybody? Can? Okay,
40:22
Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this, faith based productions like movies, yes, films,
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Speaker 2: short films, things, documentaries, documentaries, I love it. Any one
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Speaker 2: of us can donate to be able to help bring
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Speaker 2: these things to life, I love it. Thanks, We'll be
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Speaker 2: able to make sure to promote this too, So all right, guys,
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Speaker 2: until next time, Talk soon,