Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 278 - A Christian Response to Violence in Politics

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Ep. 278 - A Christian Response to Violence in Politics · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:05
  Emeal Zwayne: how do you should we do this in the flesh?
• 1:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Alexander oh, phone's on, phone's on.
• 1:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Father, we're so grateful for your mercies that are new every morning.
• 1:15
  Emeal Zwayne: We pray that you would help us today to be given strength beyond what we can generate in ourselves.
• 1:23
  Emeal Zwayne: We pray for divine strength to honor you, lord, and to be a blessing to everyone listening.
• 1:28
  Emeal Zwayne: So direct it all.
• 1:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Help me with my headache to persevere through it.
• 1:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Take it away, lord.
• 1:33
  Emeal Zwayne: I pray in Jesus' name.
• 1:35
  Oscar Navarro: Amen, same prayer every morning.
• 1:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Rachel's prayer every morning.
• 1:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm married to a headache.
• 1:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Save it, Lord.
• 1:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Take away easy my headache.
• 1:49
  Ray Comfort: You've got to save that one Mark, All right.
• 1:50
  Ray Comfort: A Christian response to violence Political violence In politics.
• 1:58
  Emeal Zwayne: It doesn't say oh.
• 1:59
  Mark Spence: Yeah, that's right In politics, dad.
• 2:01
  Mark Spence: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 2:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, we don't know the number yet because, oh wait, mark, I don't know the number yet because, oh wait, mark's not supposed to have a number.
• 2:08
  Mark Spence: That's what we had.
• 2:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, it might mix them up, because it's going to be different.
• 2:13
  Oscar Navarro: Come on, Mark.
• 2:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, let's just say no number for this one.
• 2:16
  Ray Comfort: Should we do it?
• 2:16
  Emeal Zwayne: again.
• 2:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Can you just take the number off?
• 2:18
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, do you want me to say.
• 2:19
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah yeah, we'll do it again Say no number, just say no number.
• 2:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Hold on, guys, stand by a second guys, Okay, I buy and I stand.
• 2:45
  Emeal Zwayne: No number.
• 2:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I buy and I stand, Do it Hello hello, I love you.
• 2:46
  Oscar Navarro: Ray grabbed my earlobe in the middle of a prayer yesterday.
• 2:46
  Oscar Navarro: Hello, hello, hello.
• 2:47
  Oscar Navarro: You know that Ray grabbed my earlobe in the middle of a prayer yesterday Ain't no number.
• 2:54
  Ray Comfort: Christian response to violence and politics.
• 2:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Ain't got no number.
• 2:59
  Ray Comfort: It's a song.
• 3:00
  Oscar Navarro: Ain't got no number.
• 3:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Ain't got no number baby.
• 3:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Ain't got no number baby, no number baby.
• 3:08
  Mark Spence: I asked for her number and she said Second verse same as the first, A little bit louder and a little bit worse.
• 3:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Welcome, Eddie, oh boy.
• 3:29
  Ray Comfort: Eddie is incorporated.
• 3:32
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, it's warm in here.
• 3:35
  Oscar Navarro: It is warm.
• 3:36
  Ray Comfort: It's warm.
• 3:37
  Mark Spence: Can we have that?
• 3:38
  Ray Comfort: Do you know how to do it?
• 3:39
  Mark Spence: Maybe we could turn on the air.
• 3:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Just when I'm loving the temperature, you guys are going to destroy my life.
• 3:46
  Oscar Navarro: No, it's going to get warmer.
• 3:47
  Oscar Navarro: These lights are not usually that bright.
• 3:48
  Oscar Navarro: I don't care what you all guys are going to destroy my life.
• 3:49
  Oscar Navarro: No, it's going to get warmer.
• 3:49
  Oscar Navarro: These lights are not usually that bright.
• 3:50
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't care what you all say.
• 3:52
  Ray Comfort: It's easier to light your earrings.
• 3:55
  Mark Spence: Is the lighting change intentional because of the change in the oh?
• 3:59
  Emeal Zwayne: that's a good question.
• 4:00
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, I guess so.
• 4:02
  Mark Spence: Because this is brighter and that's lighter.
• 4:05
  Mark Spence: I don't know about that.
• 4:06
  Ray Comfort: That's a song too, man.
• 4:07
  Ray Comfort: Oh, we got rid of those lights.
• 4:10
  Mark Spence: That's brighter Okay.
• 4:12
  Emeal Zwayne: That's lighter.
• 4:16
  Oscar Navarro: We should definitely turn on the air conditioning more you like the picture.
• 4:20
  Oscar Navarro: Did you notice that that green thing is flashing now?
• 4:25
  Emeal Zwayne: It's green.
• 4:26
  Emeal Zwayne: What about the green door?
• 4:27
  Ray Comfort: Don't tell me what to do, Okay.
• 4:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Tony Ready.
• 4:33
  Ray Comfort: We should have a green door at the ministry.
• 4:36
  Mark Spence: What color?
• 4:36
  Ray Comfort: Green.
• 4:37
  Mark Spence: Should we have a meeting about that?
• 4:38
  Oscar Navarro: Yes, let's meet about it.
• 4:39
  Oscar Navarro: What shade of green.
• 4:42
  Mark Spence: Periwinkle Purple.
• 4:44
  Oscar Navarro: Kelly green Three.
• 4:48
  Emeal Zwayne: In three two, one Don't tell me, don't tell me.
• 4:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Kelly Green, don't tell me, don't tell me.
• 4:57
  Mark Spence: Don't tell me, oh, what to do.
• 4:59
  Mark Spence: What to do?
• 5:02
  Ray Comfort: I was waiting.
• 5:03
  Ray Comfort: I never thought you'd make that public.
• 5:04
  Emeal Zwayne: I actually said that at church on Sunday I was waiting for you to jump in Ray.
• 5:07
  Ray Comfort: I didn't?
• 5:08
  Mark Spence: You said what Mark At the very end, during the benediction, the worship pastor said have a blessed week.
• 5:14
  Mark Spence: I said don't tell me what to do.
• 5:18
  Emeal Zwayne: The guy around me laughed oh Ray, this goes back decades.
• 5:21
  Ray Comfort: I think it certainly does.
• 5:23
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't even know where it originated.
• 5:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I don't know where it came from.
• 5:26
  Emeal Zwayne: I when it originated.
• 5:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I don't know where it came from.
• 5:27
  Emeal Zwayne: I think I just started singing the song and then we just threw that in.
• 5:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Maybe it's from the whole thing that I talk about, about how you'll hear these artists sing and they'll be singing in perfect American accent, and then they'll stop singing and they'll have a totally different accent English English or Italian accent.
• 5:44
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, don't tell me about that.
• 5:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, what was the song that I used to do all the time?
• 5:49
  Emeal Zwayne: You ain't nothing but a hound dog.
• 5:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Give me more reverberation, please.
• 5:56
  Oscar Navarro: You ain't nothing but a hound dog.
• 5:58
  Oscar Navarro: I told you turn it up?
• 5:59
  Oscar Navarro: Do you ever consider that you gave yourself your?
• 6:04
  Emeal Zwayne: headache.
• 6:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, I have a headache today, friends.
• 6:06
  Emeal Zwayne: So the Arab cherub may not be himself.
• 6:09
  Ray Comfort: Your wife has a headache too.
• 6:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, constant and permanent headache.
• 6:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, ray, why do you change your voice when you sing?
• 6:19
  Emeal Zwayne: What are you talking about?
• 6:20
  Ray Comfort: Ray, this is a confrontational moment right now.
• 6:22
  Ray Comfort: Ray, we're going to deal with this.
• 6:23
  Ray Comfort: I'm not into confrontationalism Right now.
• 6:25
  Ray Comfort: You change your voice when you sing Confrontationalism Not into confrontationalism.
• 6:28
  Ray Comfort: Right now.
• 6:28
  Ray Comfort: You change your voice when you sing.
• 6:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Confrontationalism.
• 6:29
  Emeal Zwayne: I can't sing, no, but seriously, were any of you guys ever thrown off by artists?
• 6:32
  Emeal Zwayne: You listened to all the time as kids and then they started like they were doing an interview and you're like what, boy George has an accent, yeah, you ever do that Very normal.
• 6:41
  Mark Spence: Those in London, yeah, it seems like they're all American until they speak, normal.
• 6:46
  Mark Spence: You know, I had a lady in front of me, no, a guy, excuse me, a guy in front of me in church, turn around and say don't sing.
• 6:52
  Mark Spence: And then the girl next to me said Mark, I love your voice.
• 7:00
  Mark Spence: And it was at that point that I realized oh, I'm tone deaf, mark.
• 7:02
  Emeal Zwayne: That person really said don't sing.
• 7:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I can see that it had to be real.
• 7:07
  Mark Spence: Have you ever heard me sing?
• 7:08
  Emeal Zwayne: What was your pastor's name?
• 7:10
  Mark Spence: Neither has anybody else.
• 7:11
  Emeal Zwayne: No, seriously.
• 7:12
  Ray Comfort: Sue was the only one that's heard me sing.
• 7:14
  Emeal Zwayne: No what.
• 7:16
  Ray Comfort: Well, I whistle in church, yeah you're a great whistler.
• 7:18
  Ray Comfort: No, someone says I'm a great whistler.
• 7:24
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought I'm never going to do they're going to put you in dealing with pride after that.
• 7:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, mark, why did that happen?
• 7:33
  Mark Spence: Because I don't know how to sing.
• 7:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, sing for us.
• 7:35
  Emeal Zwayne: That's what I was going to say.
• 7:36
  Emeal Zwayne: I can't Three, two, one.
• 7:37
  Mark Spence: I can't even get the words correct.
• 7:38
  Mark Spence: I can do all things.
• 7:39
  Mark Spence: It makes my wife laugh.
• 7:40
  Mark Spence: You combine so many different songs together.
• 7:49
  Oscar Navarro: I songs together.
• 7:49
  Oscar Navarro: I do that too.
• 7:49
  Oscar Navarro: Is that a genetic thing, like what?
• 7:50
  Oscar Navarro: I don't know what it is.
• 7:50
  Oscar Navarro: It'll be like a hymnal.
• 7:51
  Oscar Navarro: I've been singing for 10 years and then we're singing it and I get the words wrong.
• 7:53
  Mark Spence: Have you, have you seen Tim Hawkins do a standup where he gets words wrong and then finally tells us that's actually not the words.
• 7:59
  Mark Spence: The correct words are he's hilarious, crazy, yeah.
• 8:02
  Emeal Zwayne: And to think of the songs, I thought said one thing and then you end up learning later.
• 8:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, but I'm the same way too.
• 8:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Like, obviously you know I love memorizing things, but when it comes to songs, I can hardly remember lyrics.
• 8:15
  Ray Comfort: I don't know what it is my son, oldest son, I think it was him.
• 8:18
  Ray Comfort: We had a song, a very famous song in the 80s Our God Reigns.
• 8:22
  Ray Comfort: Do you remember that?
• 8:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Our.
• 8:23
  Ray Comfort: God Reigns, yeah, our God Re rain, yeah, how God rains.
• 8:27
  Ray Comfort: I heard him singing.
• 8:28
  Ray Comfort: I've got brains.
• 8:28
  Ray Comfort: He was only a little kid.
• 8:29
  Mark Spence: Ray's got no brains.
• 8:30
  Mark Spence: About seven years old at the time.
• 8:32
  Mark Spence: You did not, he did yeah.
• 8:34
  Ray Comfort: Jacob.
• 8:35
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, he was singing.
• 8:36
  Ray Comfort: I've got brains.
• 8:36
  Ray Comfort: It makes more sense than how God rains to a kid who's got brains.
• 8:43
  Emeal Zwayne: That's really good.
• 8:45
  Mark Spence: Purple rain what?
• 8:47
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm going to hit Jacob up about that.
• 8:49
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends Boy, you guys are making my headache worse.
• 8:51
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, yes.
• 8:54
  Oscar Navarro: Yes, thank you, lord.
• 8:57
  Oscar Navarro: Instrument of the enemy.
• 8:59
  Emeal Zwayne: All right friends.
• 9:00
  Emeal Zwayne: Time for a cool, classy comment.
• 9:03
  Emeal Zwayne: This is from Isaiah Donan.
• 9:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Hi guys, my name is Isaiah and I'm a new listener to the podcast.
• 9:10
  Emeal Zwayne: I love your deep discussions and easy jokes.
• 9:13
  Emeal Zwayne: That's why he's reading it.
• 9:14
  Emeal Zwayne: God bless you, Isaiah.
• 9:15
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm 12 years old.
• 9:19
  Oscar Navarro: Oh, there you are.
• 9:19
  Oscar Navarro: You'll soon learn.
• 9:20
  Emeal Zwayne: And love raised down to earth.
• 9:22
  Emeal Zwayne: Witnessing videos on YouTube.
• 9:26
  Ray Comfort: Oh, that's a good kid, he's a really good kid.
• 9:29
  Emeal Zwayne: I'd absolutely love it if you would come tour my farm in Ontario, Canada.
• 9:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Ps for Ray, I have chickens.
• 9:38
  Oscar Navarro: He knows the way to your heart oh how cool, Ray.
• 9:41
  Emeal Zwayne: seriously, I would love to see you cuddle with chickens.
• 9:43
  Emeal Zwayne: He's done it.
• 9:44
  Ray Comfort: Cuddle Like a thousand chickens.
• 9:46
  Ray Comfort: I thought you said cut all the chickens, Cuddle with chickens.
• 9:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah they don't cuddle.
• 9:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I'm sure you can make it work somehow.
• 9:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, we're going to send you to Ontario, canada, to a chicken farm.
• 10:03
  Mark Spence: I could see myself pulling up to Ray's house and finding him in his chicken coop just laying there doing snow angels.
• 10:06
  Mark Spence: You know, here's a comment that came in from Jenalyn.
• 10:10
  Mark Spence: I love Ray and Mark, but what's up with the other two?
• 10:12
  Emeal Zwayne: guys.
• 10:12
  Oscar Navarro: Finally an honest one.
• 10:14
  Emeal Zwayne: We have another comment here to read, along with a present Greetings from Alaska.
• 10:20
  Emeal Zwayne: I've recently begun listening to the Living Waters podcast and greatly appreciate each of your biblical insights and perspectives.
• 10:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, you are so down to earth and make it simple.
• 10:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark, you share things from very.
• 10:29
  Emeal Zwayne: What Mark?
• 10:30
  Emeal Zwayne: You share things from very, uh, you, but what Mark?
• 10:32
  Emeal Zwayne: You share things from English perspectives I would never have viewed things from easy.
• 10:37
  Emeal Zwayne: You are funny and yet very practical, Oscar.
• 10:39
  Emeal Zwayne: I love your depth and connect with you the most.
• 10:41
  Emeal Zwayne: You recently did an episode 269 regarding honoring elders, and we're talking about chocolate.
• 10:46
  Emeal Zwayne: So I decided to honor my elders haha, wink, wink and send you guys some chocolate from a local chocolate factory here in Anchorage called Alaska Wildberry Products.
• 10:56
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys are a blessing, as I listen almost every day on my way to work and now, having just attended Ambassador's Academy in June yeah, I feel even more connected to you guys and your ministry.
• 11:07
  Emeal Zwayne: It was such a blessing to meet all four of you and I was blessed even more to have John Harris, head of Living Waters Europe, as my group leader at the Academy.
• 11:14
  Emeal Zwayne: I've recommended your podcast to so many people and I still have to go back and listen to all the ones I've missed so far.
• 11:20
  Emeal Zwayne: As you enjoyed the treats I've sent, remember to thank the Lord that he gave us the ability to taste and see that the Lord is good.
• 11:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you all at Living Waters Ministry.
• 11:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Keep honoring the Lord in all you do.
• 11:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Brian Lane and family from Alaska.
• 11:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Nice.
• 11:35
  Mark Spence: Chocolates At least we know they're not melted.
• 11:37
  Ray Comfort: I'm amazed that so many people say I'm down to earth.
• 11:40
  Ray Comfort: I interviewed a guy that was seven feet.
• 11:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh yeah, seven feet tall.
• 11:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, just made his legs.
• 11:45
  Emeal Zwayne: And what did I say in my text to you ray about that?
• 11:55
  Emeal Zwayne: I remember he looked seven feet.
• 11:55
  Emeal Zwayne: No, no, that's right.
• 11:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, I said, oh, that's that really well-known uh dwarf that hangs around uh, huntington beach.
• 11:58
  Oscar Navarro: One foot four, with the rain next to him he was huge.
• 12:00
  Ray Comfort: You are one of the most down-to-earth people.
• 12:01
  Emeal Zwayne: That's what I know people say very, very, damn, yeah, so anyway, thank you so much, brian Lane.
• 12:09
  Emeal Zwayne: It was a blessing to have you at the Academy and I am going to enjoy this Did you say they are chocolates?
• 12:14
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, they are chocolates.
• 12:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, wildberry chocolates.
• 12:18
  Oscar Navarro: But it's not a carnivore.
• 12:20
  Oscar Navarro: You can't eat those.
• 12:21
  Oscar Navarro: I'm not a carnivore.
• 12:22
  Oscar Navarro: No, he's not.
• 12:23
  Ray Comfort: Life is like a box of chickens.
• 12:26
  Oscar Navarro: Go on.
• 12:27
  Emeal Zwayne: A box of chickens.
• 12:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, wouldn't that be funny to have like an assorted, a box of assorted chicken pieces.
• 12:31
  Mark Spence: Well, because you really don't know what you're going to get, right, I mean, is it possible to get him?
• 12:34
  Mark Spence: You get a rooster in.
• 12:37
  Ray Comfort: No, you're careful not to get roosters.
• 12:38
  Ray Comfort: How do you know?
• 12:39
  Ray Comfort: They've got a way of figuring it out Mark birds and bees.
• 12:44
  Ray Comfort: Someone can figure it out that end.
• 12:46
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, let's teach Mark some lessons.
• 12:48
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends, Time for another revolutionary, radically revolutionary resource.
• 12:53
  Emeal Zwayne: This podcast is brought to you by Count your Blessings and Stop Stressing.
• 12:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Devotional by Ray.
• 12:58
  Emeal Zwayne: I've mentioned it a few times recently because it's a good one.
• 13:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I just gave away six copies, Ray to friends.
• 13:03
  Oscar Navarro: That's very kind of you.
• 13:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, a devotion like this is needed, friends.
• 13:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Imagine every day being reminded not to stress.
• 13:10
  Emeal Zwayne: What are you doing, ray?
• 13:12
  Ray Comfort: Turning my notes up the right way.
• 13:13
  Ray Comfort: Can I do anything with that?
• 13:16
  Emeal Zwayne: No, everything will be highlighted.
• 13:17
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends, time to jump into the topic of the day.
• 13:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Today we're talking about a Christian response to violence in politics.
• 13:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, guys, look, we all remember where we were on September 11th.
• 13:35
  Emeal Zwayne: I remember the moment and we've talked about it on the podcast before when I got the call, and I'm sure we all remember where we were when something that's going to be, I think, an iconic historical moment in the United States happened, and that is the attempted assassination on President Trump.
• 13:54
  Ray Comfort: God was trying to get the president's ear.
• 13:56
  Ray Comfort: Oh boy.
• 13:58
  Emeal Zwayne: That was a shocker.
• 14:00
  Emeal Zwayne: I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing.
• 14:06
  Emeal Zwayne: I was away on a getaway with some friends and I got a call from Ray.
• 14:11
  Emeal Zwayne: I did my normal yep right, right, yep, yep, yep, right, and I hear a very serious voice on the other end.
• 14:17
  Ray Comfort: I was just about to cry A very emotional.
• 14:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, and you gave me the news.
• 14:21
  Emeal Zwayne: It was just again one of those shocking moments.
• 14:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Guys, same thing with you.
• 14:26
  Emeal Zwayne: You remember where you were and how you wound up?
• 14:28
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, but something like that could ever stop.
• 14:29
  Ray Comfort: Hey, yep right, yep right.
• 14:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, that's one of the very few things.
• 14:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Well then, you call me again later about something else, and I'm like hello and you're like what?
• 14:37
  Ray Comfort: No, yep right.
• 14:46
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm like well, I don't remember what you were doing, where you were.
• 14:48
  Emeal Zwayne: I think it's important for us to hit on big events like this and to try to help our brothers and sisters listening to you know figure out hey, how do we as Christians respond, and what's the biblical worldview on this?
• 15:01
  Mark Spence: So where were we at with the attempted assassination yesterday?
• 15:04
  Mark Spence: Yeah, and any thoughts?
• 15:04
  Mark Spence: I was driving along driving home from from the beach, celebrating my wife's birthday, and we have a text thread called the Twelve and somebody inside the Twelve had mentioned that there was an attempted assassination.
• 15:18
  Mark Spence: I remember my jaw just hitting the ground.
• 15:21
  Mark Spence: Yeah Right, the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God and whatever this individual had intended, we definitely see God's hand in it.
• 15:33
  Mark Spence: I don't know if you guys have gone back and forth.
• 15:35
  Mark Spence: I went back and forth several times watching the timing of the turning of the head and I could not believe how fast it was.
• 15:43
  Mark Spence: We tried to time it on a stopwatch and it's not even possible.
• 15:47
  Mark Spence: It's not possible to hit, stop and start, start and stop quick enough.
• 15:51
  Mark Spence: He was just a moment.
• 15:54
  Mark Spence: It's really.
• 15:55
  Mark Spence: I think it's the closest I've ever seen to the twinkling of an eye, right, the twinkling of an eye, because he was that close to eternity.
• 16:03
  Mark Spence: So I was driving along with my family and there was just a moment of silence and gasps.
• 16:10
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, when it hit yeah, twinkling of an eye is a 500th of a second.
• 16:14
  Emeal Zwayne: I learned that many years really yeah, I could not believe um how, if he had not turned his head at that exact, I mean exact and it was like, I mean it was just like it would have hit his head, would that exact?
• 16:29
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean exact, and it was like I mean it was just like it would have hit his head, would have gone right into his temple.
• 16:34
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean I don't know what to say.
• 16:37
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean I've seen providence at different moments.
• 16:41
  Emeal Zwayne: This would have to be one of the most extreme evidences of providence.
• 16:46
  Emeal Zwayne: I would say so yeah, yeah, I mean I want to get more into it.
• 16:49
  Emeal Zwayne: But, oscar, I'd love to hear your thoughts and yeah, I was.
• 16:52
  Oscar Navarro: Uh, I didn't find out about it until that night.
• 16:54
  Oscar Navarro: Um, I tried not to be on my phone on the weekends, try to unplug and just kind of be present in the moment.
• 16:59
  Oscar Navarro: So truly it was like you know we're.
• 17:02
  Oscar Navarro: We're kind of the nights winding down and I pop on my phone to.
• 17:06
  Oscar Navarro: I have it like a news feed system called feedly, where it, instead of just scrolling social media for news or popping on websites, it delivers like news that I have decided is is helpful towards me, and one of the first ones up there was the attempted assassination which there was the whole day.
• 17:24
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I had no idea Lincoln was shot.
• 17:26
  Ray Comfort: Did you know wait what?
• 17:27
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, boiler alert, I haven't seen that movie yet.
• 17:28
  Ray Comfort: So yeah, I didn't find out.
• 17:28
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I had no idea.
• 17:29
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, Lincoln was shot dead.
• 17:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Did you know?
• 17:29
  Oscar Navarro: that.
• 17:30
  Oscar Navarro: Wait, what Spoiler alert.
• 17:30
  Oscar Navarro: I didn't hear Oscar.
• 17:30
  Oscar Navarro: I haven't seen that movie yet.
• 17:32
  Oscar Navarro: So yeah, I didn't find out until probably six or seven o'clock at night.
• 17:35
  Ray Comfort: Wow.
• 17:41
  Oscar Navarro: And when I first saw it to be honest with you, because of the way I process information I thought it was going to be a conspiracy theory, an exaggeration, and so the first thing I did was I went and watched the video and it was, like you guys, just unbelievable Chilling, chilling.
• 17:53
  Oscar Navarro: And at that point they already had the image.
• 17:56
  Oscar Navarro: Have you guys seen the image where you see the bullet.
• 17:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Isn't that?
• 18:00
  Ray Comfort: crazy.
• 18:01
  Ray Comfort: It actually isn't the bullet, it's the vapor trail.
• 18:03
  Oscar Navarro: That okay, was it.
• 18:04
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I heard a guy, an expert, and he said the bullet was too quick.
• 18:08
  Ray Comfort: But that's the vapor trail behind a plane.
• 18:10
  Ray Comfort: Wow, Isn't that insane.
• 18:12
  Oscar Navarro: So I mean, yeah, I was.
• 18:13
  Oscar Navarro: I was absolutely in shock.
• 18:15
  Oscar Navarro: I mean your heart just hits the ground and how history in this present moment could radically change with the twinkle of an eye.
• 18:27
  Ray Comfort: So if he had been blown up in front of the whole world, were there been riots across America?
• 18:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, there was somewhere where someone said I mean the caption was we were centimeters away from civil war is what someone said, and I don't know if that would have eventuated.
• 18:45
  Ray Comfort: I'm just thinking of my emotions.
• 18:47
  Ray Comfort: If I'd seen something like that, how I'd feel?
• 18:49
  Ray Comfort: I think I'd be angry, and I'm not an angry person, yeah, yeah.
• 18:52
  Emeal Zwayne: And you could just imagine, yeah, human sentiment in a moment like that, especially with how just so charged with vitriol this whole campaign has been.
• 19:01
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, for president, all the things that have happened.
• 19:03
  Emeal Zwayne: So, yeah, you think about what could have been.
• 19:06
  Emeal Zwayne: I heard someone say that, with JFK, had the driver of the car not slowed down or stopped after the first shot, that JFK may have lived.
• 19:18
  Emeal Zwayne: So you look at those things and you try to figure out.
• 19:22
  Emeal Zwayne: God, what was this about?
• 19:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Because that turn, at that exact same second.
• 19:27
  Emeal Zwayne: First of all, you realize, this kid, who was 20 years old 20 years old, I mean he must have been practicing a lot or something, because he was.
• 19:37
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean it was the turn that saved Trump, had he not?
• 19:41
  Emeal Zwayne: He was right on his target.
• 19:42
  Emeal Zwayne: You know Well, it's also windy.
• 19:45
  Oscar Navarro: Did you notice the flag?
• 19:46
  Oscar Navarro: That was the next thing I noticed is is how windy it was.
• 19:50
  Oscar Navarro: In one of the images where he's pumping his fist, the flag is waving oh yeah, and that had to play a role well, you know they.
• 19:55
  Emeal Zwayne: They said that because you know that shooter was spotted before he shot and 30 minutes there's videos of people saying 30 minutes, 30 minutes and there's a 26.
• 20:04
  Ray Comfort: they took a photo and there's 26 minutes after the photo that he was shot.
• 20:08
  Ray Comfort: Oh, whoa, he shows the incompetence.
• 20:10
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean you heard people yelling out a little bit before he shot.
• 20:14
  Emeal Zwayne: That I saw.
• 20:15
  Emeal Zwayne: So you know he was spotted and someone said they saw him.
• 20:18
  Emeal Zwayne: I can't remember the name of the instrument, but it's some instrument that measures for wind or whatever, because you know snipers, they account for that, they account for wind and the effect it'll have.
• 20:27
  Emeal Zwayne: It determines where they aim.
• 20:29
  Ray Comfort: And breathing when you pull the trigger.
• 20:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, there's all kinds of things to it.
• 20:32
  Emeal Zwayne: So yeah, ray, where were you when you found out?
• 20:36
  Ray Comfort: Well, I was just finishing a 40-day fast.
• 20:38
  Ray Comfort: I was just getting up off the dirt.
• 20:40
  Ray Comfort: No, I was watching TV and you just saw it on the news.
• 20:43
  Emeal Zwayne: It was pretty spiritual.
• 20:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, on the news.
• 20:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, was it live when you saw?
• 20:46
  Ray Comfort: it.
• 20:46
  Ray Comfort: No, I saw all the officers sorry, the secret service on top of him and then they rolled it back to when he was shot.
• 20:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Because that's what I wanted to see immediately, I said come on give us what happened, yeah, and that's when I just was filled with emotion.
• 21:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Quite amazing, yeah.
• 21:05
  Emeal Zwayne: So, guys, I want to kind of examine this together, and the title of the podcast episode today is A Christian Response to Violence in Politics.
• 21:13
  Emeal Zwayne: So I think a good place for us to start would be just to talk about politics in general.
• 21:17
  Emeal Zwayne: I think we've done a podcast on that a while back, but I think that— I like Bernie Sanders.
• 21:25
  Oscar Navarro: I'm with her.
• 21:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Bernie.
• 21:29
  Ray Comfort: So I think, the reason I said that is something.
• 21:32
  Ray Comfort: Four guys talking about politics how's this going to go?
• 21:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, we'll figure our way through here as we go, but you know, there are a lot of believers, I think, or some believers at the very least, that do have this perspective that Christians should have nothing to do with politics in general, and I've seen comments on different platforms where this is being discussed and other sorts of things like hey, you guys shouldn't even be dabbling with this, christians should have nothing to do with that.
• 21:57
  Emeal Zwayne: So what would you guys say is and Oscar, I'll start with you a good Christian worldview when it comes to politics and believers.
• 22:09
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, well, I'll start by responding to that statement that we should have nothing to do with politics.
• 22:14
  Oscar Navarro: I just don't see that in the scriptures or throughout church history.
• 22:19
  Oscar Navarro: I think God's calling to his people in the Old Testament you know, you think about.
• 22:25
  Oscar Navarro: I think a prime example is the Old Testament after they were taken to Babylon, right, they're living in a nation that is clearly not a Christian nation.
• 22:35
  Oscar Navarro: They are being ruled over by leaders that are clearly not Christian, and yet God's call to his people in Babylon was to do good by the city, to participate in the public square, and we see them serve in the public square.
• 22:54
  Oscar Navarro: We see over and over again in the Old Testament where they serve in political roles as cupbearers, which isn't just literally being a cupbearer, you are also an advisor to the king.
• 23:07
  Oscar Navarro: And so throughout the Old Testament and into the new, we see a dynamic interaction between God's people and the nation in which they lived, whether that was the nation of Israel or some other nation.
• 23:22
  Oscar Navarro: And so to have a complete division in regards to our faith and politics.
• 23:26
  Oscar Navarro: I just I don't see a reasonable argument in the scriptures for that.
• 23:31
  Oscar Navarro: On the other hand, I do believe that we need to be careful about how much hope and identity we put in politics, because we can vary.
• 23:44
  Oscar Navarro: I think if you stand up and you say to anybody hey, our, our hope needs to be in the Prince of Peace and not in policies and politicians.
• 23:50
  Oscar Navarro: Most people in America Christians, are going to go yep amen, yep amen.
• 23:54
  Oscar Navarro: But on a practical level, on a day-to-day basis, we often find our identity, our hope, our desire for the future bent up in policies and politicians, when we have to remember that we are not citizens of this world, but another one.
• 24:12
  Mark Spence: And we see in the Old Testament right, there is a scriptural basis for confronting those in power.
• 24:17
  Mark Spence: We see this with Nathan confronting King David in 2 Samuel, chapter 12, right, that righteousness was not reigning.
• 24:25
  Mark Spence: King David went off track.
• 24:27
  Mark Spence: King David tried to get away with something and Nathan confronted him.
• 24:31
  Mark Spence: Right.
• 24:31
  Mark Spence: We have another example in 1 Kings, chapter 21, with Elijah confronting Ahab.
• 24:36
  Mark Spence: These speak of examples of the common person or an average person or somebody not in politics, trying to speak up on behalf of the people or even, in this case, on behalf of God.
• 24:48
  Ray Comfort: And John the Baptist with Herod.
• 24:49
  Ray Comfort: Yes, very good the king.
• 24:52
  Emeal Zwayne: That's good, oscar.
• 24:57
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm really glad you made that dichotomy between what Christians will sometimes say and how things bear out practically, because you're right.
• 25:00
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, who's going to say, oh no, we put our hope in, but at the end of the day, how is that being lived out?
• 25:06
  Emeal Zwayne: We see that in a lot of different ways in our lives as believers.
• 25:10
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, we talk about trusting the Lord and then we see ourselves going to our various sort of earthly means to try to satisfy things in our lives versus truly demonstrating trust in the Lord, which means in a lot of cases, I'm going to still do what's right, despite what, I'm worried the outcome is going to be, and so it's good to recognize that.
• 25:31
  Emeal Zwayne: And, ray, I mean on this note, we talked about Christians serving in politics, like we see the example, for example, with Daniel right and Babylon and Shadrach, meshach and Abednego, or Hananiah, mishach and Azariah.
• 25:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean they were officials within Nebuchadnezzar's court.
• 25:49
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, daniel was obviously highly elevated.
• 25:53
  Emeal Zwayne: We see it with Joseph in Egypt, which obviously and again I'm saying this to highlight the fact these were pagan nations that did not love and know and fear God, and yet you have servants of God, true servants of God, that were involved there.
• 26:06
  Emeal Zwayne: So what do you say to that Ray?
• 26:09
  Ray Comfort: We're living in a pagan nation, in a sense, a nation that's fallen away from righteousness, and we're called to be salt and light and there's a balance.
• 26:16
  Ray Comfort: Salt preserves, salt has taste, and that's what we try to do preserve righteousness within the nation.
• 26:22
  Ray Comfort: It's not kind of working.
• 26:23
  Ray Comfort: We've fallen away because we haven't held up the light at the same time.
• 26:26
  Ray Comfort: It's got to be a balance.
• 26:27
  Ray Comfort: The gospel has to go hand in hand.
• 26:29
  Ray Comfort: What America's done may I mention it before is we're no different from Israel of the Old Testament when they turned away from God's law and got into idolatry, and that opens the door to sexual sin.
• 26:39
  Ray Comfort: And that's exactly what's happened in America.
• 26:41
  Ray Comfort: There's been a concerted effort among atheists, particularly over the last 20, 30 years, to rid the country of the moral law, and what that does is allows a country to become idolatrous.
• 26:52
  Ray Comfort: You get your own image of God.
• 26:53
  Ray Comfort: Then you become blasphemous of the true God.
• 26:56
  Ray Comfort: You don't set aside one day to rest, you don't honor parents, you lie, kill, steal and even covet.
• 27:02
  Ray Comfort: I think I've got a quote here.
• 27:03
  Ray Comfort: If I can find it from what's happening with the nation regarding covetousness.
• 27:06
  Ray Comfort: I can find it from what's happening with the nation regarding covetousness.
• 27:08
  Ray Comfort: I can't find it, but it's saying that they're making gambling accessible to families by changing it away from gambling to gaming, and so everyone can gamble now on their phones.
• 27:20
  Ray Comfort: And it's back in 1937, the church stood up as salt and said you cannot do this.
• 27:25
  Ray Comfort: It destroys a society and we're in a tidal wave of lawlessness and the only answer is to bring Moses down from the mountain with fiery eyes.
• 27:35
  Ray Comfort: And that's what the church needs to do.
• 27:38
  Ray Comfort: That's what the men of God need to do is preach righteousness in the great congregation, to uphold God's law and say God holds every person accountable.
• 27:45
  Ray Comfort: And the fruit of salvation when someone is brought from that law as a schoolmaster to Christ, is that we become lawful.
• 27:52
  Ray Comfort: We worship the true God, we don't blaspheme his name, we set aside a day to rest, we honor our mom and dad and we don't, like he'll, steal or gamble.
• 28:02
  Ray Comfort: We don't need to, because God's our source of joy.
• 28:05
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark, wouldn't you say that sometimes we've seen the outcome of Christians not being involved in politics in terms of outcomes of votes and then positions that could have possibly been filled by godly people not being so?
• 28:20
  Mark Spence: Yeah, I don't remember what election this applied to, but there's plenty of examples where people have lost elections by like one or two votes and there are certain people that will say you know, what do I do?
• 28:33
  Mark Spence: How far does my vote actually go?
• 28:35
  Mark Spence: What should I do?
• 28:36
  Mark Spence: And I think that we should approach this with well, I'm going to do all that I personally can do.
• 28:41
  Mark Spence: Leave the results to God.
• 28:43
  Mark Spence: I think we can build somewhat of a case from a text we see from the book of Jeremiah how we are to work for the common good of a society, to vote, to do what we can to try to put godly people in office and bring ungodly people down.
• 29:01
  Mark Spence: We see it in Jeremiah 29.7.
• 29:02
  Mark Spence: It encourages us to seek the welfare of a city.
• 29:06
  Mark Spence: Listen to this text.
• 29:07
  Mark Spence: It encourages us to seek the welfare of a city.
• 29:10
  Mark Spence: Listen to this text Also.
• 29:11
  Mark Spence: Seek the peace and the prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile.
• 29:14
  Mark Spence: Pray to the Lord for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.
• 29:20
  Mark Spence: What a beautiful text, what a beautiful scripture to approach and not have a hands-off approach, but to encourage those who feel that calling and that leading into office.
• 29:30
  Mark Spence: It is so easy to begin to say you know, I'm not going to put any finances or any time or any of my talents towards helping those who want to head in that direction.
• 29:40
  Mark Spence: I think, well, god is sovereignly in control.
• 29:42
  Mark Spence: He moves the king's heart as he sees fit.
• 29:44
  Mark Spence: He's going to do what he wants to do anyways.
• 29:46
  Mark Spence: Well, no, we occupy until he comes.
• 29:49
  Mark Spence: God changes policies and hearts and societies by people.
• 29:57
  Mark Spence: That's how he does it.
• 29:57
  Mark Spence: Much in the same way.
• 29:58
  Mark Spence: Well, if I were to have the position, god says that he's going to provide for all of my needs according to his riches in Christ Jesus, he tells me not to worry about what I'm going to eat.
• 30:08
  Mark Spence: Okay, I'm not going to eat.
• 30:10
  Mark Spence: Well, that would be ridiculous.
• 30:12
  Mark Spence: I'm not going to work for my family, I'm not going to provide Because God's their provider.
• 30:16
  Mark Spence: That is a silly approach.
• 30:19
  Mark Spence: God uses everyday, simple actions to work supernaturally.
• 30:25
  Mark Spence: Natural means to provide supernatural means.
• 30:29
  Mark Spence: That's his gameplay.
• 30:31
  Mark Spence: Well, if God's going to save someone, I don't need to share the gospel.
• 30:33
  Mark Spence: This is just a silly approach, an ungodly approach to the way we respond to those around us, specifically those in politics.
• 30:42
  Mark Spence: Yeah, we occupy.
• 30:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, absolutely.
• 30:44
  Emeal Zwayne: And again, I'm always saying if we have the opportunity, as believers, to be a part of the conversation and a part of the process and often a part of the solution, are we crazy to not be involved?
• 30:58
  Emeal Zwayne: You have some believers that are living under dictatorships where they don't have that possibility, they have no recourse in a sense.
• 31:06
  Emeal Zwayne: But when you're in a society where the mechanism is such that you are able, as a Christian, to get involved and, like you're saying, mark those that have that inclination, which I believe often is given by the Lord, to raise people up, we'd be insane not to the ability to vote and to affect policy that could align with our Christian worldview and with righteousness.
• 31:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Are we insane not to do it?
• 31:30
  Emeal Zwayne: And I think, look, you do have your balance, because there are a lot of what are called political junkies.
• 31:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Right, there are a lot of Christians, I think, who are in a negative state, if you would, because they're just given over too much to the news and watching everything, reading everything.
• 31:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Their hope is in politicians that are in Christ, but on the other hand, I think that there are some Christians that are on the other extreme, where they don't know what's going on in the country.
• 31:55
  Emeal Zwayne: They never look at the news, they never, you know.
• 31:58
  Emeal Zwayne: But if we're called to be salt and light, shouldn't we know what's happening so that we can pray, so that we can vote, so that we can even use it as a springboard for the sake of the gospel, to show care and compassion within our nation?
• 32:11
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, really, I've spoken to a number of Christians.
• 32:12
  Emeal Zwayne: They never know what's going on in the world.
• 32:15
  Emeal Zwayne: It's like, oh, it's almost like that's an ungodly thing to do that.
• 32:18
  Emeal Zwayne: No, we're God's agents in this world and we're his ambassadors.
• 32:23
  Emeal Zwayne: We should know.
• 32:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh.
• 32:26
  Ray Comfort: I've noticed a lot of people on our YouTube channel have said God didn't protect or deliver Trump and they said, because he's an evil man, it wasn't God's hand.
• 32:39
  Ray Comfort: How would you answer that?
• 32:40
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, I would say this.
• 32:41
  Emeal Zwayne: I would say that, despite what someone's character might be, or despite what someone's religious affiliation may even be, that God can still sovereignly work.
• 32:56
  Emeal Zwayne: And I have two examples Isaiah 45, 1.
• 32:58
  Emeal Zwayne: This is King Cyrus, and it says Thus says the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held, to subdue nations before him and loose the armor of kings, to open before him the double doors so that the gates will not be shut.
• 33:11
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, god here is referencing Cyrus, who was a pagan king of Persia, as his anointed Jeremiah 43.10, and say to them thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel behold, I will send and bring Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, my servant, and will set his throne above these stones that I have hidden, and he will spread his royal pavilion over them.
• 33:34
  Emeal Zwayne: So I mean, you know, and that's the pagan king of Babylon.
• 33:37
  Emeal Zwayne: So you have two pagan kings that were anointed, used by God for his divine purposes.
• 33:46
  Emeal Zwayne: I would say the one caveat, though this is where, again, we go to extremes.
• 33:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, so you guys are saying Trump got into office, god allowed that.
• 33:55
  Emeal Zwayne: And again, romans 13, 1-7, talks about the governing authorities that exist and are appointed by God right, but they go to the other extreme.
• 34:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Well then, trump must be a Christian right, and that's what we have to be careful of.
• 34:08
  Emeal Zwayne: When someone says this is the person I'm voting for and this is the person I'm endorsing, or whatever, it doesn't mean that they're now saying I believe that they're a brother or that they're truly born again.
• 34:20
  Emeal Zwayne: So we have to be careful there.
• 34:22
  Oscar Navarro: And to clarify, because I know that a lot of people will do this.
• 34:25
  Oscar Navarro: They'll hear that phrase oh, he's the anointed one, and they'll think about it in a messianic kind of a way.
• 34:30
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, it in a messianic kind of a way.
• 34:41
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, it's my chosen, chosen, selected for this purpose.
• 34:42
  Oscar Navarro: But no, that's right.
• 34:42
  Oscar Navarro: And so to be clear, yes, uh, donald trump is god's chosen president, as he was, you know, four years, three and a half years ago.
• 34:45
  Oscar Navarro: He was god's anointed.
• 34:45
  Oscar Navarro: In the same way, joe biden is god's anointed leader of america right now.
• 34:48
  Oscar Navarro: In other words, there is not a single leader, politician, prime minister in this world that hasn't been put in their place by the sovereign hand of God to work out his plan, which ultimately is for our good.
• 35:04
  Oscar Navarro: The scriptures tell us that everybody in leadership is put there by God for his plan.
• 35:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and that's the thing I think.
• 35:14
  Emeal Zwayne: People just immediately think that that means, if this is appointed by God, that this person is going to be perfect in character or do things that we would deem as perfect and righteous.
• 35:26
  Emeal Zwayne: You know and this is where it gets into Mark the intricacies of trying to figure out God's sovereignty.
• 35:31
  Emeal Zwayne: We can't, we don't understand his providential hand.
• 35:33
  Emeal Zwayne: But what's that saying by Spurgeon, is it when I can't out God's sovereignty, we can't, we don't understand his providential hand?
• 35:39
  Mark Spence: But what's that saying by Spurgeon?
• 35:40
  Mark Spence: Is it when I can't trace God's hand, I think I trust his heart.
• 35:42
  Mark Spence: It was good.
• 35:43
  Mark Spence: What a beautiful text.
• 35:44
  Mark Spence: I think the problem that I see with Trump specifically is that they're looking at Trump to be a savior.
• 35:50
  Mark Spence: Yeah Right, trump is not a savior.
• 35:53
  Mark Spence: He's not a savior.
• 35:53
  Mark Spence: Trump is not a savior.
• 35:54
  Mark Spence: He's not our savior.
• 35:55
  Mark Spence: He's not here to save America.
• 35:57
  Mark Spence: We have to camp, we have to have a Selah moment with what Oscar just said here, that God ultimately is in charge.
• 36:05
  Mark Spence: He uses people.
• 36:06
  Mark Spence: I saw a ridiculous video clip of a gentleman who was being.
• 36:11
  Mark Spence: He was inside of his car.
• 36:12
  Mark Spence: He was doing, uh, like an instagram live moment, something live, and the police are saying open the door, open the door, we're gonna break in your window, we're gonna break in your window, you need to do it.
• 36:23
  Mark Spence: And he's all, he's all.
• 36:24
  Mark Spence: Look, my hands are up, my hands are up, and he starts crying and he says trump, help me, help me, tom donald.
• 36:29
  Mark Spence: And I'm like, no, who is he praying to right now?
• 36:32
  Mark Spence: Are you serious?
• 36:33
  Mark Spence: I'm dead serious.
• 36:34
  Mark Spence: He's praying to Trump to come and take a hold of the situation.
• 36:40
  Mark Spence: That's what we need to be free from.
• 36:43
  Mark Spence: We need to be careful of leaning so far that Trump is our only answer in turning America around.
• 36:50
  Mark Spence: No, it's been said that God is seldom early, he's never late.
• 36:53
  Mark Spence: No, he's never early.
• 36:53
  Mark Spence: That God is seldom early, he's never late.
• 36:54
  Mark Spence: No, he's never early and he's never late.
• 36:56
  Mark Spence: He's always on time.
• 36:58
  Mark Spence: He moves people like pieces for his glory and for our good.
• 37:04
  Ray Comfort: That was a deep fake, wasn't it?
• 37:05
  Ray Comfort: It just sounds so crazy.
• 37:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, I know there have been some crazy things.
• 37:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Remember there was back in the day when Obama was in office and they were doing this almost like worship kind of song it was.
• 37:17
  Emeal Zwayne: It was insane.
• 37:18
  Emeal Zwayne: There is this delirium I think people get hit with, they get caught up in the hype and it's like this moment of and because, again, as people, our hearts are designed to worship and if Christ is not reigning on that throne, man, we will gravitate toward whatever moves us emotionally in a universal nation, in a religion and in family, and shifting our primary identity, which is also our primary affections, our primary way of worship, our primary view of tribalism.
• 38:02
  Oscar Navarro: He said in three areas.
• 38:04
  Oscar Navarro: He said consumerism, sexuality and politics.
• 38:08
  Oscar Navarro: He suggested that a secular America would look like an America that turned politics into a religious fervor, and that is exactly what both of you are saying.
• 38:20
  Oscar Navarro: I think that we have a lot to learn from the early church in regards to how to pursue policies and politicians.
• 38:27
  Oscar Navarro: I think we see them do a lot of really good things and then we see them do a lot of things that ended up leading to atrocities.
• 38:34
  Oscar Navarro: And I'm borrowing from John Dixon here.
• 38:37
  Oscar Navarro: He's a historian, pretty respected Christian historian, but he is respected by both secular and Christian historians.
• 38:44
  Oscar Navarro: He wrote a book called Bullies and Saints, and so what he shows, speaking of how do Christians interact with policies and politicians and the world around us and how do we do good to our city and to our communities, he shows that the early church exploded not only through evangelism but through hospitality and generosity, that they went and sought out the good of the people around them.
• 39:11
  Oscar Navarro: They took care of children and orphans and people of need and because of this, this amazing movement for 250 years went from being this, this, you know, backwatered religion that was being persecuted, to being the fervor and the desire of the people.
• 39:29
  Oscar Navarro: And then comes Constantine and he enacts the edict of Milan.
• 39:33
  Oscar Navarro: And the Edict of Milan was this moment.
• 39:35
  Oscar Navarro: Bear with me here because this is going somewhere.
• 39:38
  Oscar Navarro: It was this moment where Constantine wanted to create Rome as a pluralistic nation.
• 39:45
  Oscar Navarro: He didn't Christianize Rome.
• 39:46
  Oscar Navarro: Basically, it was like hey, we need to all live here in peace together as Christians and as pagans.
• 39:54
  Oscar Navarro: He kind of recognized and we have letters from Constantine to friends where he's going listen, the pagans couldn't paganize us.
• 40:02
  Oscar Navarro: Therefore, the Christians aren't going to be able to Christianize the pagans through violence.
• 40:06
  Oscar Navarro: We need to live here peacefully and let the truth prevail.
• 40:09
  Oscar Navarro: And from that moment forward, it was an amazing place for Christians.
• 40:14
  Oscar Navarro: They started to involve themselves in politics, in education, in the public square, and things were going really well.
• 40:21
  Oscar Navarro: Then, 30 years later, emperor Julian Apostate comes along the scene and he reverses everything.
• 40:28
  Oscar Navarro: He fires all the Christian professors, he ends all the Christian established welfare programs.
• 40:35
  Oscar Navarro: He has all of the Christian politicians either resigned or killed.
• 40:40
  Oscar Navarro: Basically, julian the Apostate was trying to push Christianity to the fringes of the Roman Empire.
• 40:47
  Oscar Navarro: And then, almost like a crazy movie moment turn of events, he dies on a battlefield.
• 40:53
  Oscar Navarro: A crazy movie moment turn of events he dies on a battlefield.
• 40:58
  Oscar Navarro: And the Christian's response is what's interesting to me, because the Christian's response to this political persecution was like never again, we cannot risk another Julian.
• 41:07
  Oscar Navarro: And so they went full board aggression and they started repressing paganism, uh, imprisoning and killing heretics and basically the end result is Roman Catholicism, which is Christendom without Christ.
• 41:23
  Oscar Navarro: They looked at the solution to the problem was in power and control rather than in the Prince of Peace.
• 41:31
  Oscar Navarro: And so whatever role we play is if we go out there with aggression and power and control.
• 41:39
  Oscar Navarro: It's not what the early church was doing.
• 41:43
  Oscar Navarro: It's not the recipe for God's movement.
• 41:46
  Oscar Navarro: God has never worked through power.
• 41:48
  Oscar Navarro: He has worked through the meek and the humble.
• 41:51
  Oscar Navarro: That doesn't mean meek, as in not involved, but it means like we shouldn't look like the people around us when we talk about politics.
• 42:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow, that's a great illustration, oscar, of what can happen when, again, we begin to abandon our trust in the Lord and His sovereign protection over us as His people.
• 42:17
  Emeal Zwayne: And that's not to say that Christians cannot defend themselves, you know, in an appropriate manner.
• 42:33
  Emeal Zwayne: But you know there is that to try to do what may be expedient, even for our own good as believers.
• 42:41
  Emeal Zwayne: And so, ray, you know violence in politics today, I mean there's so much of it on so many fronts.
• 42:49
  Emeal Zwayne: This was the one thwarted attempted assassination.
• 42:54
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean this was the closest we've seen since Reagan of something that just about happened.
• 42:59
  Emeal Zwayne: But there's attempts all the time.
• 43:02
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean there's violence all the time.
• 43:04
  Emeal Zwayne: That goes on Generally speaking.
• 43:06
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean we're talking about America here, but all around the world.
• 43:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Have you guys seen those videos of politicians in cabinet meetings and stuff where they just start beating each other up?
• 43:16
  Oscar Navarro: Throwing shoes at each other.
• 43:17
  Oscar Navarro: Throwing shoes yeah.
• 43:18
  Emeal Zwayne: They're punching each other, going off on each other.
• 43:20
  Emeal Zwayne: It's kind of like our board meetings here, but in parliament, you know.
• 43:25
  Emeal Zwayne: So I mean, would you say this in general is just a reflection of the fallen heart of man.
• 43:31
  Ray Comfort: I think it's road rage hasn't confined itself to the road, it's spilled over into society.
• 43:36
  Ray Comfort: Everyone's got a short fuse and I think fuse Social media has kind of done that.
• 43:40
  Ray Comfort: Amazon would take two days to deliver something some time ago and that was exciting for us.
• 43:46
  Ray Comfort: Now if it's not there, it's not coming this afternoon, and so everyone's got a kind of short fuse and I can feel my short fuse when I'm driving on the road Just coming here the other day a car in front of me went slow up to the lights.
• 43:57
  Ray Comfort: He's probably looking at his phone when he's going up to these lights.
• 43:59
  Ray Comfort: The lights were green and then they turned red and he got through and I didn't and I just felt not rage but just thought, no, I've just got to calm down this short fuse isn't good for a Christian because we're called to love our enemies, we're called to be peacemakers.
• 44:17
  Ray Comfort: That word, makers, is really important.
• 44:18
  Ray Comfort: That speaks of an adjective.
• 44:18
  Ray Comfort: We make peace and we strive to keep peace.
• 44:21
  Ray Comfort: Not just peace, the peace of God, peace on earth, but peace with heaven.
• 44:26
  Ray Comfort: That's the key.
• 44:27
  Ray Comfort: Peace on earth is politics, peace with heaven is the gospel.
• 44:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark, you know, maybe you can comment on this if you've seen it, but I've been moved oftentimes when I've seen a politician be highlighted as very unusual because they didn't respond and like to a political opponent, you know, or someone came after them with just vitriol but they were able to speak truth and maybe point out that opponent's shortcomings politically, but not get personal and not nasty and even say a few gracious words.
• 45:01
  Emeal Zwayne: That's salt and light, right, that's our testimony before the world.
• 45:05
  Mark Spence: Yeah, if I'm understanding what you're asking here, because I rarely understand what you're saying.
• 45:12
  Mark Spence: There's arguments to be dealt with right.
• 45:14
  Mark Spence: You don't attack the person, you attack the argument.
• 45:17
  Mark Spence: And when you are attacking the person, that is the first sign of a failed argument.
• 45:21
  Mark Spence: When you're not able to understand what you're saying yourself, you begin to raise up your voice instead of raising up your argumentation.
• 45:28
  Mark Spence: We need to be slow to speak at all times.
• 45:31
  Mark Spence: To speak at all times.
• 45:38
  Mark Spence: We need to be quick, to listen at all times.
• 45:39
  Mark Spence: So when somebody comes up against, I mean, let's just make it more personal with us.
• 45:41
  Mark Spence: Even on a daily, day-to-day basis.
• 45:43
  Mark Spence: We need to understand what the argumentation is in order to have a conversation.
• 45:47
  Mark Spence: If you don't have all of your ducks in a row, well then, just listen, just be grateful that somebody's saying something to you.
• 45:54
  Mark Spence: So we need to be able to receive input from anybody and everybody.
• 45:57
  Mark Spence: That kind of comes our way.
• 45:58
  Mark Spence: That changes with political rhetoric.
• 46:01
  Mark Spence: When we see this with debates, when a somebody in politics, they are asked a very direct question and the answer has nothing to do with the question that was asked.
• 46:10
  Mark Spence: It's it's.
• 46:11
  Mark Spence: My wife has often said when I leave a Q&A she'll say you had some really great answers to questions that were never asked.
• 46:18
  Mark Spence: It's so easy for me to just kind of get sidetracked, but you can't do that when you're in a place of politics, because the questions that are asked, by and large, are the questions of the people.
• 46:28
  Mark Spence: We want to have answers to these very specific questions.
• 46:33
  Mark Spence: So don't hem and haw around the issue around.
• 46:35
  Mark Spence: Don't answer like a politician.
• 46:37
  Mark Spence: Somebody's once said that's not good to do that.
• 46:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah.
• 46:41
  Emeal Zwayne: So, oscar, how can we as believers now respond in this moment where this is going to be the topic of discussion?
• 46:48
  Emeal Zwayne: For a while, and I tried to use it as a springboard.
• 46:51
  Emeal Zwayne: I just came back from a trip on a plane.
• 46:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Hey, did you guys hear about what happened with President Trump?
• 46:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, yeah, and you could segue from that.
• 46:57
  Emeal Zwayne: I used it with my Lyft driver on the way home yesterday.
• 47:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I said do you hear what?
• 47:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and I said man, isn't it crazy how close he was in terms of his life ending.
• 47:07
  Emeal Zwayne: What do you think about life?
• 47:08
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, do you ever think about eternity?
• 47:10
  Emeal Zwayne: And I just went from.
• 47:11
  Mark Spence: There.
• 47:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Good job, EZ.
• 47:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Starting sharing the gospel, but using these springboards.
• 47:14
  Emeal Zwayne: What can we do?
• 47:16
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, well, I love that as a springboard.
• 47:18
  Oscar Navarro: I mean anything that we see in the news.
• 47:19
  Oscar Navarro: I also think that what can we do?
• 47:22
  Oscar Navarro: Going back to what Ray talked about being a peacemaker and you alluded to this too I think what can we do?
• 47:28
  Oscar Navarro: Also, in the way in which we contribute to conversations around us, we can act like peacemakers.
• 47:35
  Oscar Navarro: I wrote three things down.
• 47:37
  Oscar Navarro: One we need to remember that politicians are not characterized gladiators, because often when we talk about politicians, we talk about them in this way that we would never talk about our neighbor or friend or someone we know face to face.
• 47:51
  Oscar Navarro: It's like we all recognize that we are all created in God's image and do dignity and respect.
• 47:56
  Oscar Navarro: Unless you're talking about a politician.
• 47:58
  Oscar Navarro: You know what I mean.
• 47:59
  Oscar Navarro: It's like when we start talking about someone on the other side of us, all of a sudden we can mock them.
• 48:03
  Oscar Navarro: We can call them names, we can characterize them, but that is somebody created in God's image, and for you to mock them, you are actually mocking God, the image-bearing quality of God in them.
• 48:18
  Oscar Navarro: That is the reason why everybody is due dignity and respect, not because of who they are, how they vote, but because of who they were made by, and so all of us can participate by honoring the image-bearing quality in politicians when we talk about them.
• 48:32
  Oscar Navarro: We can also this is something that you alluded to, mark demand more from politicians and commentators you mentioned this which is like we are now watching people attack people rather than their ideas.
• 48:45
  Oscar Navarro: It's so fascinating If you go back and watch presidential debates in like the 80s and 70s.
• 48:51
  Oscar Navarro: They come out and they're like listen, the person I'm against.
• 48:53
  Oscar Navarro: He's a good man.
• 48:54
  Oscar Navarro: He wants what's great for this country.
• 48:56
  Oscar Navarro: I respect him.
• 48:57
  Oscar Navarro: He's done a lot of good.
• 48:58
  Oscar Navarro: Him and I just have different views on what's the right thing to do next, and that's what we're gonna be here to talk about today.
• 49:03
  Oscar Navarro: You will see at times, even in the 2000s, where somebody would mock the character of a presidential candidate and the opposing person would go whoa, whoa.
• 49:13
  Oscar Navarro: That's not fair.
• 49:15
  Oscar Navarro: You know, defend them as a person, and so we need to demand that kind of character from politicians and from commentators.
• 49:24
  Oscar Navarro: And then, thirdly, we can't lose our hope in Christ and the reality that and this gets to what you're saying that the Lord means to deliver us through what he has done on the cross.
• 49:38
  Oscar Navarro: The answer to all of these problems are already here His kingdom on earth as it is in heaven, and what we ought to do.
• 49:46
  Oscar Navarro: Instead of going out there and win voters to our side, we should be proclaiming the gospel for the sake of God's kingdom.
• 49:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Ray, that's what it comes down to at the end of the day, right, it's down to the root cause of the problem of humanity, we must never lose sight of our agenda.
• 50:02
  Ray Comfort: The agenda of the book of Acts was to deliver sinners from the wrath to come.
• 50:06
  Ray Comfort: That's what we should be concerned of.
• 50:07
  Ray Comfort: And as fruit of that, christian character comes into a society.
• 50:11
  Ray Comfort: And that's when you have a lawful society.
• 50:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Amen.
• 50:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and Oscar, I was thinking about what you were saying, about how the rhetoric has so changed and I think people have become desensitized to it.
• 50:22
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, in this recent presidential debate they were going back and forth about their golfing prowess.
• 50:29
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm like man, this is where we're at now.
• 50:32
  Emeal Zwayne: So, yeah, God help us and friends, may God help us more than anything to maintain a Christ-centered outlook on all things, that our calling as believers is to even love our enemies, and that needs to be at the foundation.
• 50:49
  Emeal Zwayne: That doesn't mean we don't defend our nation.
• 50:51
  Emeal Zwayne: That doesn't mean that we don't speak truth On the contrary, because those are all part and parcel with righteousness but we do it in a way that says look, I care for your soul and in fact, as a Christian, I'm willing to take a bullet to bring that truth to you so that your soul may be saved, like Christ demonstrated by giving his life to redeem us as long as it just gets your ear.
• 51:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, hopefully.
• 51:16
  Emeal Zwayne: So there you have it, frowns.
• 51:19
  Emeal Zwayne: We hope you've been encouraged.
• 51:20
  Emeal Zwayne: Hey, keep the conversation going.
• 51:22
  Emeal Zwayne: Tell people that they can find a savior who will one day change this entire planet.
• 51:27
  Emeal Zwayne: We're not gonna have any more of this junk going on.
• 51:30
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for all that you do in following the Lord and in supporting the ministry here.
• 51:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Don't forget, count your blessings and stop stressing Ray Comfort's 365-day devotional.
• 51:42
  Emeal Zwayne: And don't forget the Living Waters mug and the Evidence Study Bible at livingwaterscom.
• 51:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Friends, yes, it's true, this is still one of the top podcasts in the world, so keep telling people and subscribe and do all that good stuff.
• 51:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Podcast livingwaterscom.
• 51:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for joining us, friends.
• 51:56
  Emeal Zwayne: We'll see you here next time on the living waters podcast, where we have no idea what we're doing do you know what happens to your mouth when you say thank you?
• 52:09
  Oscar Navarro: thank you, it is warm in here is that you?
• 52:11
  Mark Spence: know what's happening to the ears of the people.