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Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 8) (5/6/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're getting right back to
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  the interview with the unamed lieutenant from MCC with the
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  OIG investigators. Question. All right, now, this is the one
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  that I really want you to look at. Look at
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  this E one. This is now August tenth at midnight.
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  Check out what it says for Za on E one.
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  What number does that say? Answer seventy two question? All right,
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  and check out the count slip answer what does the
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  count slip say? Question? It says seventy three, So seventy three,
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  But the top one that was clear it says seventy
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  two right answer yeah, question, And I'll give you one more,
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  just so it's not a magic trick. Look at this
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  page first for the August tenth, and I have the
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  rest of them too if you want to see them,
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  but three am on August tenth. And then the last
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  page where it says the count slip, what does it
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  say on the E one? On the next one answer
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  it says seventy two question? And on the E one
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  and then what does the count slip say? Answer seventy
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  two question. So, in looking at all of this does
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  that tell you as a lieutenant and someone who worked
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  in the shoe, does that tell you something? Answer? Yeah,
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  But the thing is this one had up though question.
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  That's exactly right. So we're trying to figure out where
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  did this count change down to seventy two? And does
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  it indicate to you that these counts were not actually
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  conducted and that this is not that we have no
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  reason to believe you were involved in this. So I
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  want to make sure your we're actually just looking for
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  your help here, as someone who worked in the shoe
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  and someone that is familiar with these kinds of documents,
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  can you help us put this puzzle together? So we
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  have a reason to believe that they called in the
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  midnight seventy three and the control lieutenant who was working
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  that night figured out that there is actually only seventy
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  two people in there. They've been calling in seventy three,
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  but there's only seventy two people in the shoe. Is
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  there any way from looking and that's from this point forward,
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  they're now starting calling in seventy two? Is there any
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  way from looking at these you're able to determine with
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  your knowledge and experience where that changed. I would say
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  that it changed from the ten o'clock count. This was
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  printed at nine thirty three, so it has seventy three.
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  And then at nine thirty three attorney conference ain't open,
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  so Epstein would have probably been up by then. He
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  would have went back to the shoe, so he would
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  have been listed on Epstein would have been back at
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  least by eight pm. Right answer, yeah, question, So that
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  would have been he should have been on this one. Answer,
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  so he threw it. Yeah question, And can you see
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  where on let's talk about I guess that's the one
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  before the five pm the four pm answer, Yeah, it
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  would have been the attorney conference. Yeah question, and it
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  would have showed them at the attorney conference on one
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  of these correct on the e one answer, yeah, at
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  three o'clock at attorney conference. Well from shoe question and
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  then does it show that he's already in shoe in
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  this one? Is there any way an attorney conference at
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  the ten pm count? Answer? No? But see what I
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  was telling you before about the numbers. See how I
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  had seventy six question yep answer, and this is at
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  the four o'clock count, and then it went down to
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  seventy three question right answer, So you don't know until
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  after the count about the whole cellmate coming back? Question right,
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  But then the weird part about it is going from
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  seventy three to seventy two with no movement, so we
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  don't know. Okay, so they're taking off, you know, if
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  they're going from what does it say, seventy six down
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  to seventy three, that's three people and one person vanishes
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  when it gets to seventy two. Are you able to
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  tell where that person vanished from? Or is it impossible?
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  Because possibly all these counts were not conducted, and that
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  I know you weren't here for any of these counts apparently,
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  so it's again I'm just asking for your guidance. Is
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  that correct? You weren't even working when any of these
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  counts were conducted? Answer yeah, Well if I was, you
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  said four? Right? Answer well, you possibly worked up until
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  four answer yeah. Question but he gets cut off by
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  the lieutenant. So I wasn't here. I wasn't there for
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  count question right, So again I want to reassure you,
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  this is not a gotcha moment. We're just trying to help.
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  He gets cut off by the lieutenant. No, no, but
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  you know it feels like it. Question yeah, yeah, And
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  I get that because you've got special agents talking to you.
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  It's just all about trying to piece the puzzle together.
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  So we need help with people like yourself to be
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  able to say what the hell happened? You know what
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  I mean? Answer yeah, Well, well there's also three here
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  from indiscernible I mean, I think question and we've had others,
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  and you just he gets cut off by the lieutenant. Oh,
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  they hadn't keyed them out, but then they would have
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  keyed them out. R and D leaves at ten. They
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  leave at ten. Now they could have left somebody on
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  and they came out, because like you said, it's no movement.
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  The only way you get it is you key out
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  like ki a guy unless somebody went to the hospital
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  or something. Answer yeah, and if there is nothing that happened,
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  but no inmates were moved after ten pm? If we
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  know that, does this indicate that we're just going off
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  on numbers and just falsifying their accounts or are you
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  able to tell by looking at these all if these
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  counts are legit or not. Are you able to kind
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  of like give us any insight into that answer? I mean,
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  the one with the plus one is the question, because
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  I don't see why they would. Then again, you've got
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  R and D with the plus one two I don't know.
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  I don't know what's going on. They got R and
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  D indiscernible sell plus one question And by looking at
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  that person in R and D, are you able to
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  tell who it is? Answer? Huh? Question not by looking
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  at the name? Answer? Not by looking at the name.
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  I mean there's no outcount. Don't have the outcount question?
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  Don't have the outcount? Is that what you're saying? Answer? Yeah?
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  Question and what time is that for? Answer? Well, you
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  don't have the count out question? No, what time are
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  you looking at? Answer? This one's for ten? Question? So
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  the ten PM doesn't even have an outcount on it. Answer,
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  I mean it don't add up. Because yes, something's not
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  right because R and D is not on here unless
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  they moved. I mean sometime they have a ghost count.
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  But he gets cut off by the investigator. And what
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  does a ghost count mean? The lieutenant So like the
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  guy in medical, they say, hey, I didn't have time
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  to key him in, but I'm verifying that he's down
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  there or down here with me and put them on
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  my account. Question So R and D does that say
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  ninety five plus one. Answer it could say ninety five,
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  or it could say nine south. Question oh, nine south
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  plus one? The other investigator pipes in, what's nine south?
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  Answer the shoe question? Now, this name to me looks
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  like redacted? So is that somebody's name? Answer? Yeah, that's
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  an officer question. So if someone was placed in R
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  and D and someone was told to watch that person there,
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  would the person at ten pm? Would they be able
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  to see, like a dry cell, someone was still sitting
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  there at night? Answer well, yeah, because you could watch
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  them down there. Yeah. Question and is that like a
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  small indiscernible Is it kind of like you'd be able
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  to that person would know if somebody was there or not?
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  Answer yeah, because someone could have come in before the
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  count too. A US marshal could have brung someone in
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  and they said, hey, watch this guy, he's going to
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  nine South. That's why the plus one is throwing me off.
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  Question have you ever seen plus one and anything before? Answer? No,
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  I heard people calling in with a plus one, But
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  then again, I say that's like a ghost a ghost. Count.
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  Question all right, does this but seeing especially looking at
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  seventy two and does this at all tell you anything
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  about any of those counts. Like we've had other people,
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  you know, in higher position saying to me, it tells
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  me that the counts weren't done. Does that tell you that? Answer? Yeah?
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  But at ten I mean yeah, I don't know, man,
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  I mean, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you.
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  I don't know. I don't understand that question. Okay, So
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  it's just a baffling type of deal because it's baffling
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  to us, and then we're just hoping that people can't
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  help us, especially people that were there. Answer, I don't know. See,
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  that's why I don't understand that. I don't see how
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  they got seventy three at the time ten o'clock count
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  and then they lose one after the ten o'clock count. Question,
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  And that's the same thing we're trying to figure that out. Answer,
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  unless it wasn't keyed in the system, question, at what
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  point are you able to tell? At what point it
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  should have been keyed in the system by that answer, Well,
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  if a guy came into R and D and they
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  keep him in shoe and they put him back in
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  R and D. Question, So if like he went to
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  shoe and then back answer, he never went to shoe.
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  They keep him in the shoe, they put him on
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  the count, but he didn't make it. So the medical
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  and stuff taking the guy out, so they say, hey,
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  leave him down there and count him an R and D.
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  I could see that happening. Question. So if like he's
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  in medical and they can't he gets cut off by
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  the lieutenant. Well, so like medical comes down there and
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  they check him out and he don't make it up
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  to the shoe for the time. Seeing that, they could say, hey, well,
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  I'm not putting him in our account, put him down there. Question.
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  So that would be like the ghost count you're talking about. Answer, No,
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  that's the real count. That's just saying someone put him
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  in there and then took him out. Question. All right,
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  but if he's not physically there, he's not actually allowed
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  to be on the count, is he Answer exactly No,
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  That's why this is I don't know. You see this
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  says RA, that's R and D question, And does it
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  say anybody in R and D on this answer? Well,
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  there's not out count. And that's what I'm saying. There's
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  no out count with that one question. So this RA
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  is one answer. RA and R and D are separate.
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  You need an out count for this. You don't need
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  an outcount for that. This is a unit question. But
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  as far as this goes, we're looking at the midnight
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  and ten pm right answer. Yeah, question, So at midnight
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  there is RA one and then midnight, but at ten pm,
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  you know, two hours earlier the zero correct answer. So
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  I'm thinking this dude went back to RA. Question. Okay,
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  that's how they lost someone. But there is a count
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  slip for R and R and D. That's what we're
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  talking about. That's the thing. He gets cut off by
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  the investigator. Isn't the count slip he gets cut off
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  now by the lieutenant at the top question that's R
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  and D answer, Well, they could have messed up. They
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  could have had RA count slip for that one question.
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  What's the difference between RNA and R and D. Answer.
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  RNA is a real unit. So when the guys come
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  back from court, they're in RA status. R and D
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  is when they keyed out question to leave answer to
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  go to court. But if they come back, they came
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  back in their unit. If they don't come back, they
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  release them from R and D. But RA is technically
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  a unit question and it doesn't count as it doesn't
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  show up in R and D answer. No question, where
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  would that one slip that says R and D in there?
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  Where would that show up? Answer? That would be right here.
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  But they don't have nobody in R and D question
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  so there, So is that even weirder the fact that
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  the ten PM count there's a count slip for R
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  and D and there's nobody for R and D on
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  this answer. That's why I think they put them and
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  keep them in the shoe. They keep them in the
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  shoe the inmate and put him down an R and
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  D and then change it after the count, or they
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  could have changed it right after his count cleared and
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  set it up for the next count. Say the inmate,
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  the inmate is this is ten answer? Yeah, this one
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  is ten pm question. Yeah, you have the midnight one
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  question and that midnight one right there. Answer, that's the
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  three question. This is midnight answer. Yeah, So that's what happened.
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  Question Does R and D have like a dry cell
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  or a dry room? Answer? No, they got sells. You see,
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  they got RA right here. Yeah, that's what happened. I
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  think the guy came from shoe and went to RA.
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  That's why they lost one question and can you think
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  of why a person would go from shoe to RA
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  at that late at night? Answer? A body scan, probably
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  pulled something and they kept them down there, put him
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  through the X ray? Answer, And is there a way
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  by looking at these you can see is there you said?
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  Four pm? Answer? Yeah, that's four pm? Question is the
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  person in R and D at four pm? Are you
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  able to tell by this? Answer? Let me see you
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  know the inmate that was down there? Or no? Question?
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  I think redacted? Is that right? Answer? He was a
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  whitsec dude. Question do you know anything about him? Answer? No,
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  I don't, but yeah, that's what it looks like. It
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  looks like they took a guy to shoe, put him
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  in R and D, but instead of keeping in R
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  and D, they keyed him in RA. Yeah, that's what
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  it looks like. Question so at four pm? Was anything
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  to do with redacted on that or anything to do
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  with somebody in he gets cut off by the lieutenant?
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  Well the four pm no, because no one is out
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  from R and D. You've got one from eleven South,
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  You've got no one from R and D. Question, but
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  it also said that the ten pm right or I
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  don't know which one I'm looking at right here. Answer, no,
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  you have one out here. Yeah, but it looks like
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  this inmate from ten o'clock they did the count at
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  ten plus one, Yeah, plus one. It seemed like they
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  got screwed up by something, either a moving this guy
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  to R and D or whatever. I mean, the count
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  slip shouldn't have accepted anyway. So in the nine south
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  plus one, like, I don't know why that was written,
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  that's what it looked like. The guy came from nine South,
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  he went in the ra stayed there throughout the night.
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  Whoever the inmate was question? And we have reason to
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  believe that that is the case, that there's a guy
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  that was in you know, he did stay there at
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  the night and he had somebody on him. And that's
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  one of the reasons why we want to talk to
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  somebody that was in R and D to be able
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  to verify, Hey, was that guy really there? And by
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  looking at that, would you be able to tell us
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  the individual we talked about? Answer redacted question who did
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  the count slip? Answer it's based on the count slip.
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  Question All right, does this tell you anything just before
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  we move on? Answer, I mean, I don't know, Yeah,
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  I don't know. I don't understand it. That's the only thing.
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  I think they probably took him down there. Question is
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  there a witch? From looking at these? What basic like
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  count seem bad to you? Does this ten pm one
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  seem like a bad count to you? The way what
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  you just looked at when there's nothing on the EU
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  one and on the count slip? Answer? If you were
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  working that night and you got a count like that,
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  is that good or a bad count? Answer? I would
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  have said a bad count? Question? And who can you
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  tell by looking at this who was the one who
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  took the count? Answer? Uh? Redacted? Question? And was there
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  any lieutenants involved with these? Answer? I mean there could
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  have been, I'm not sure. Question, but by looking at this,
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  I think probably the midnight one there was an actual obsolutenant.
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  Are you able to tell that by looking I think
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  the obsolutenant is the one who caught it at midnight?
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  Are you able to tell that? Answer? Oh? This one here? Question? Yeah?
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  Are you able to tell by looking at these? Are
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  you able to tell me when the lieutenant actually took
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  the count? Answer? It looks like she took the count redacted?
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  Took the count at midnight? Question? All right? And it
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  shows redacted on it. I'm looking at this upside down,
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  so I can't even see it. Answer that's what it says. Question.
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  And this one does it show any lieutenant was involved? Answer? No, question,
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  so it would just have been redacted. Answer. Yeah. All right, folks,
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  we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
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  episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
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  we left off. All the information that goes with this
• 16:35
  episode can be found in the description box.