Latest / Gabbing with Gib / Jill Zarin Gets Herself Fired, Amanda and Kyle Mention It All on 'Summer House,' Venita vs. Salley on 'Southern Charm,' Birthday Dinner From Hell on RHOBH and More with Joan Summers

Transcript

Jill Zarin Gets Herself Fired, Amanda and Kyle Mention It All on 'Summer House,' Venita vs. Salley on 'Southern Charm,' Birthday Dinner From Hell on RHOBH and More with Joan Summers · Gabbing with Gib

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Gabby with Gibb, what oh whirlwind week there's been for our Rooney OGs.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host Gibson Johns, and today we're talking about the latest from Summer House, so then Charm, and last week's Real House wasn't Beverly Hills, because I never got a chance to talk about it with Joan Summers, who writes a fashion-focused column about bravo for paper magazine, as well as hosting in the podcast eating for free, which talks a lot about bravo, and before we get to our great chat with Joan, it goes on for over an hour.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: We of course have to talk about the Jill Zaire in up at all.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, where do I even begin?
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: We did talk about her initial comments on Tuesday's episode, I believe, that's what that was.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: But as I've said, nothing that Jill said in that video about Bad Bunny was a surprise.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We knew she thought this way, but ultimately, to me, it had come down to the fact that she was stupid and arrogant enough to post it and think it was going to be acceptable and not taking him for what it was, which was racist.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: She clearly lives in a bubble where what she thinks is reaffirmed and reflected right back at her by the people around her, because this is what she thinks.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you can just tell Jill does not challenge in terms of her views and thoughts because she's around people who think exactly like her.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so when she went to post this, she thought there was kind of land because, again, there was nobody there to check her and be like, Jill, I'm not sure if this is a good idea.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then, whether it was like a separate video or in the, I think in the same video, she was like, I don't care if I lose followers.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna post it.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody in the background was like, don't post that.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, I don't care.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll lose half my followers.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was Gary, her husband.
• 1:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, e and the production company announced that they were firing her, which surprised me.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I thought they wouldn't do it for exactly the reason that I had to say, which is that it wasn't all that surprising.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone knew her politics, just like Ramona.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I guess they figured that she would not be idiotic enough to post something like this.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So for them to act so swiftly, you know, it was less than 48 hours after she posted the video that he announced to the production company that they were letting her go from the show before to even started filming.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Kudos to them, they've learned obviously from past, from past, happenings like this, probably on Bravo and other networks.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I was pleasantly surprised by that.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And almost immediately,
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: According to quote, Insiders close to Jill went directly to Page 6, like literally, like within the hour of the news coming out, there was a Page 6 article.
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so this was what the Page 6 article said.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It said sources close to Zaryn, tell Page 6 that she's disappointed by the move because her view was a widespread one.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people were not happy about the bad bunny show, and Insider, familiar with Zaryn's thinking, said, Megan Kelly had a viral video slamming in, whether you like him or not, the president of the United States slammed it.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: he completely overreacted.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: If they'd waited a week, it would have been fine.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: The show doesn't air for nine months.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: The source said that reps for Zaryn even suggested that he used the drama around the post into the first episode of the new show.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jill said what half the country was saying, but she got fired for it, they added.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So again, the source is close to her insiders.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's probably like a her public says or somebody like that.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is not like some random friend who's smelling a tea like this is very planted.
• 3:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Notice there's no apology.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Notice it's
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Displacing blame, notice that it is pretending to not really know what she said that was wrong and half the country thinking this I mean just because
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: half the country voted for our president, it doesn't mean the half the country thinks this, first of all, and second of all, it doesn't make it okay.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And comparing yourself to Meghan Kelly and the president in the United States, I mean, if that's the company you wanna be associated with, then go for a girl.
• 3:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: So then Jill, an hour after that, again, this is like two hour after the news broke.
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: She went to in touch of all places to give an exclusive, no shade, but if that's all in place, it's gonna take your exclusive, that's interesting.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, this article said, she almost immediately deleted the posts, but not before it was captured and shared on X by content creator Gibson Johns.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't even give me a chance, Zaryn tells in touch exclusively, I took it down right away.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: People make mistakes I'm human, and then a source told them everyone on the internet is up and are because they love Jill, and we're finally getting her back.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: He made a snap decision without even taking to account that Jill took it down right away.
• 4:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jill will be back, this won't keep her down, people love her, that will never change.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's so much to unpack there, you guys.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, first of all, the people clamoring for Jill had become back to reality TV.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure anybody outside for family was really doing that.
• 4:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was excited to have this group back on TV as a whole, not her specifically.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've only seen like trolls in my comments, kind of being quote-unquote up and arms about it, but nobody like loudly or prominent.
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And again, her one statement directly is that they didn't give me a chance I took a downright away.
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: People make mistakes out of human.
• 4:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: First of all.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: No apology.
• 4:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's the victim because she doesn't think that she did because she doesn't think she did anything wrong and is always the victim.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Never takes ownership of accountability for her missteps.
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And also, this wasn't a quote unquote mistake.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: She thought this.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: She took the time to record a video.
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was two minutes long.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: She encouraged people to disagree with her and that she didn't care if she lost followers because of it.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: She posted it and then she doubled down
• 5:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, at least, own that these are your real beliefs and stand tentos down on that.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I still wouldn't agree with you or I was still thinking that you're a bad person, but at least, like, say it with your chest, right?
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people make mistakes.
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the, again, noology.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And also, her, her sent her statement was two lines.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't think deeper about that, and then also this article saying that the video is captured and shared on X by content creator, Gibson Johns, before she immediately deleted it.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, all these articles are linking to my tweet of her Instagram video.
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let me just say, I downloaded that from her Instagram.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: over an hour after she posted it and then shared a Twitter.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know that it blew up a lot from there, but it had already started to blow up.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't follow Jill.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I first saw the video reposted by other content creators on Instagram.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I was maybe the first person to take it to Twitter, which I guess is a place that
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: these outlets were paying attention to.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not going to take credit for being the first person to call a flag on the play.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And also, she did not immediately delete it.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was up for over an hour and she was doubling down in the comment section.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I saw it with my own two eyes.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, she's full of shit for that, too, as well.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, don't make it seem like I was somehow able to capture it before you deleted it after like a minute.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's not the case.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It just pisses me off because I'm sort of like the nini, me and now why am I in it?
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I didn't mean to like listen, if I am being credited with helping to take Jules there and down, like that's not my game by any means.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just share all this stuff and see what happens, but also like there are worse things.
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I just want to clear that up too, because maybe if you've read some of the articles, I mean the initial article from variety that she was fired also linked to my video.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: but I was not the first person to really kind of share it from after Jill had posted it.
• 7:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: What else?
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, oh, we've also heard from Kelly Dodd that Jill's there and called her, you know, that Monday, before she was fired, like freaking out being like, what do I do?
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you're calling Kelly Dodd for advice, that's your first, that's your first problem, that you know you're in deep due to.
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have Brandy Glennville coming out in defense of her and it's like, Joe probably asked her to post that, you know, me my all the other housewives are posting about how much they load that bunny.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like, yeah, they're, it's very funny because it's very obvious that they're all kind of over compensating and like adding his picture to his his music to all their posts and being like, I love that bunny.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, a so many of them, I'm not going to call it any by name.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you know what, like, even though it is like pretty like, you know, heavy handed, I'd much rather have
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: that kind of posts and anybody agreeing with Jill loudly or at all.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if that's how they want to handle it to kind of distance themselves from her and show that they don't feel that way, then great.
• 7:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll believe they don't feel that way.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, but it's like, again, even Ramona was smart enough not to post something like this like Ramona.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jill is just such
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: a self sabotage her.
• 8:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: She shot herself in the foot.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: She did this to herself.
• 8:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are consequences to actions.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is not cancel culture.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is not, this is her facing consequences are posting this video.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: As we all know, this is not the first time she has, she has torpedoed her reality V combat.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: She did so with Rooney Legacy when she took, uh, paid disputes public and then the show was asked.
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: She gets greedy, she gets arrogant, and this is just how she is.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you could argue that her first run on Roni, she saw, she shot herself on the foot.
• 8:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard from somebody in the nail after I guess my name got so associated with this, that it's actually not just twice that she's done this.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like apparently there have been efforts, I guess, over the years, to potentially bring her back to Roni that never came to fruition.
• 8:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: The implication was that was because of her.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then also somebody else told me in my DMs that the narrative that Jill and Beth
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, in the past week and a half week or so, that Jill was the one that got the gold on life off the ground.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: She was one that made the Rooney reunion show happen.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: She was pushing for this shopping around.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I heard that's absolutely false.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I told that it was actually Sonya and the way I never tried in the ship that really made this show happen.
• 9:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the other women came aboard later.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they were really doing the hard work and so Jill's taking credit for that apparently, too.
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's allegedly that I've been told in my DMs this week.
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the last thing from, I guess, Jill's team leaking stuff is the real housewives zone, a post of exclusive, I think they're an Instagram account.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the headline is Jill's there and allegedly on the edge of mental health clinic commission after E-axing, Jill's absolutely devastated.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it says Jill is absolutely devastated that her video about Bad Bunny has caused so much uproar on her acting from the new show on E. She is in contact with a well-known mental health clinic to be admitted.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not good.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: She never expected this and she is very sorry for her words.
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: She missed spoke.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ali is by her side constantly at the moment, as she is very concerned about her welfare.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Louanne is not talking to her right now, which is breaking your heart on top of all of this.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's coming directly from her camp.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And first of all, you do not miss speak.
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Posting a two minute video where you were
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: flagrantly, you know, shooting down your partner saying, don't post this, you're going to lose followers and people, that's not miss speaking, okay?
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Miss speaking is like a word or a sentence or a phrase that you use incorrectly.
• 10:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is what you think.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I understand that being sort of the the the subject of so much online, Ier is probably really difficult, but this is all a storm of her own making.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: She has an apologize for it.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard for me to feel bad for her and now we know now Louis Ann's not talking her and so hey, okay.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you deserve that.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh Last thing about this is that we also actually second to last thing about this is that we also got Andy's reaction So he had said
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think after her initial comments, I mean, this before she got fired, he said, call E. It's a really funny clip.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's from his radio show.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go find that.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then on Thursday, he actually addressed her firing directly.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it was sort of family, but he said, someone who was let go in season four talked about it with me so much on camera off camera was finally coming back.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then a week after the announcement,
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: and he sort of trails off and he says, I would never get over the sight of the Zaryn Fabric's Instagram account posting a picture of Jill with an ex over her face.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I never thought I would see the day.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I heard from her a few weeks ago about a reunion set that she said a terrible rugs and she was like, you should get some rugs at Zaryn Fabric.
• 11:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I saw the Zaryn fabric post, I was like, oh my god, the walls are crumbling.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess her parent's step grandson also did an ask me anything on Reddit.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess he verified his identity with like a video him speaking at Bobby's funeral, I wanna say, but he talked about a variety of different things.
• 11:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So go, I think I tweeted it.
• 11:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a link to it on my Twitter somewhere.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody talked about how Bobby apparently changed his will before he died to take Ali out of it, he said that Jill did in fact invite Bravo to film Bobby's funeral despite Jill and Bethany always saying otherwise and Bravo was always maintained that Jill invited them and this step-grandson confirmed that she did in fact invite them to film the funeral and then the last thing.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: is that Durinda is joining the show.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Page Six said, now sources tell us that Medley who starred on six seasons of the show has long been expected to be part of the show.
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: We hear the network had been planning to announce her role closer to its premiere to draw it to publicity for the show a little longer.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But as it turns out, it's useful to have a spare cast on her in the wings.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is interesting.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's been framed a lot that Drenda has been replacing Jill, but that's not the case.
• 12:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Drenda was apparently always gonna be part of the show.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: They just were gonna announce it later, which I also think it's interesting because as we know now, like when these shows are filming in public, like people spot them immediately, so that news would have leaked.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's interesting they would have waited to announce that.
• 13:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think they're probably putting this out now.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: to quail some of the bad juju and bad attention that the show is getting to get people excited the matter again.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of worked.
• 13:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I will say like when I saw this news and people talking about it, they're like, all right, there is hope for it.
• 13:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is hope for it.
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then also during this radio Andy co-host, friend of the podcast, Kiki Monique, she said she posted screenshots of this article on on threads and she wrote, the news is out, congrats to my girl and reality
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: so she's knowing about this.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this is definitely happening, but then the next day TMZ did an article that said multiple sources with direct knowledge tell TMZ produces her currently producers currently have no plans to replace Jill on the E-series after she was fired this week over her controversial statements about the halftime show.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're told the show's producers feel feel the remaining women are more than capable of carrying the show and don't need anyone else to take over your spot.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our sources also tell us fans could see familiar faces from past Roni seasons because there's chatter about cameo's during filming.
• 14:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of former cast members, Dorenda Medley has joined the reunion show but not as a full cast member as of now.
• 14:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So to me, that is somebody being like, nope, during this action, not replacing jail.
• 14:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're actually not gonna replace jail.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to, but we will have to random it.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's not gonna be a full-time cast member.
• 14:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what that looks like again.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is not a housewife show.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, I don't know what, what it's really gonna look like.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then,
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, familiar faces from past row any seasons.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Great.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bring in, bring in all of them.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bring in Carol, bring in a Viva, bring in Heather, bring in jewels, bring in anybody.
• 14:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, I'm down.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bring in fucking Cindy Bar shop for a jazzling session.
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: To end up being there definitely makes me feel better about the show.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always going to watch it.
• 14:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was never in question about not watching the show.
• 14:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like,
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: even just for research purposes seeing how it is, but I, again, I still find a hard to imagine them not being entertaining this group, but it definitely has a stink now, but I guess less of a stink now that they have fire Jill after that video and they did it very quickly.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that is all of my thoughts.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think for right now, the Jill situation, I don't know if there will be many more updates, and I hope there aren't honestly, oh, she's kind of like phased into obscurity, because there's no way she's going on another chance to return to reality TV, at least
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's it for me at the top.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Keep listening for my chat with Joan Summers from Paper Magazine.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Check out her column every week on Paper Magazine about fashion and bravo.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Check out her podcast eating for free.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And please make sure to rate review and subscribe to Gardening with Gabe.
• 15:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're everyone listening to this right now.
• 15:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate you all for the support of the show.
• 15:41
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• 15:43
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• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: both at gathering with Gabe.
• 15:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Find us on YouTube, you can watch our episodes, you can prefer to watch podcasts, most of our episodes are in video form up there.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will have more housekeeping updates in the coming week or two.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've been in the process of changing networks and I'm gonna do a Patreon, but that was put on the back burner as some of this sort of technical stuff on the back end was changed, but I appreciate your patience on the Patreon because I want to make it good, so I don't wanna have to ask it.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, anyway, there's the housekeeping updates,
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Southern charm and real house was a Beverly Hills chat.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Have a good weekend.
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want a gab.
• 16:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, today we're gathering with Joan Summers, who is a senior editor at Paper Magazine.
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've long admired her coverage of Housewives in fashion and followed it on social media.
• 16:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm glad that we're connecting today to talk about Summers House, Southern Charm Beverly Hills.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot going on in the Bravo World.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Joan, thanks for being here.
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: How are you?
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for having me.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've also long admired your work.
• 17:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's no one else I would want to talk about the destruction of Kyle and Amanda's marriage with.
• 17:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you listen.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those things where it's like, oh, the wild candy feels a little bad where you're like, God, this season is so fucking good already.
• 17:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's on the basis of a marriage and clothing.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it just feels like also everybody's on the same page, including them.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think at this point in time, that like it was the right thing to happen.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know?
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I feel like I was telling this to a friend about this, where, like, with scandal, there was sort of the achiness that came with, like, the recell of it all and the James of it all.
• 17:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was, like, a train, a train wreck.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: You couldn't look away from but you also felt like a little morally bad for paying attention at all.
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas this, it's like, no one really has been, like, morally or grossly harmed.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just, like, a really toxic marriage.
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we get to watch at the sidelines as it implodes.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: It feels,
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: much more like what I want out of Bravo.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 100% and also like we know now that they're on decent terms like they seem pretty cordial and like they both accepted the situation.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not one of those Bravo breakups where it's like in real time it feels really adversarial or like that we're gonna you know what I mean?
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that also makes it go down a little easier.
• 18:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, like listen, I have and it it looks good about some of those things where it's like You almost don't want people who just tuned into summer house like two seasons ago to comment on this because it's like We have been in the gym now these two for 11 years.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I saw somebody else say that it's also interesting because people who are more in that realm of like I am newer summer house watchers
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: they're much more likely it seems just based on sort of anecdotal social media observation is like they're more likely to be anti-mandu in this whole thing because they see her as like the nagging wife and always a note of Kyle and like why didn't she pour stuff out earlier that sort of the sentiment that I'm seeing from the newer bravo fan versus like the older bravo fan knows that like Kyle's been acting a fool for quite some time you know so it's interesting to see that dichotomy
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's an interesting like, I think, I like if we're going to grossly generalize, yeah, but then you'll jensee schism and bravo watchers where like, I'll talk to people who are younger than me, or like very much older than me, like my parents age, who hate Lindsay, for instance, who like cannot stand Lindsay, like water off TV, et cetera.
• 19:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then I talked to women in my age and we're all like, fuck yeah, we fucking love Lindsay, right?
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like even if she's a hot mess at times, it's like you can't look away.
• 19:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that with Amanda, where she's kind of a litmus test on where you fall, like, if you're taking Kyle's side, I think you really should, like, look at a few things about yourself.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want to say like neither of them are blameless enough.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Amanda has a lot to...
• 19:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: address about the way that she has handled her relationship on television for 10 years.
• 19:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, it's like, I don't know, coming away from this hating Amanda is such an interesting, yes, I think it's the same more about the person that it does about what we're actually watching.
• 19:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 19:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this episode of Summer House sort of picks up where we left off in the premiere, which was an excellent premiere.
• 20:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would say I just said such is not for such a good season.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Amanda's just gone skinny dipping and we actually kind of kick it off with this like, I mean, it's kind of a theme of the season.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Amanda's going to have these like things that she says.
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're just like, oh my god.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how are you guys still together?
• 20:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But she's like, he wants me to have more fun than he's not happy when I'm having fun, which is kind of like a pretty great encapsulation of the dynamic from her perspective.
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think what we're seeing with them is it's like this hypocrisy that happens in like a really toxic relationship where you know one person says they want something and they get it and then it's not happy it's like you can't do it right either way and I think Kyle is really exemplifying that we're like throughout the episode it's like
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wants it both ways, right?
• 20:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he wants a wife who pays attention to him, but then he's gone every weekend.
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like, which is it?
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Amanda's in sort of the same boat where she's like, I want to have fun.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's mad at when he mad at me when I have fun.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want him to work all the time.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I supported the business.
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like both of them.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think are very much confused.
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's interesting to see Amanda in this position because it's been a long time.
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: right 100%, dismissing him, being rude, sort of like, publicly calling him out in front of everyone.
• 21:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: She usually is protecting him while he's, you know, going off, but it's interesting to see the roles reverse.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know, and it's also, it's like, you know, there's something we always want from man, because not always happening where she wants to be partying and having fun and like being a little more outgoing than maybe is her sort of natural way.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so if I heard a be in this space
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Clearly her and CR, I think without page, I have, maybe it was a producer talking to them or whatever, but they're clearly trying to like lean a little bit more into like being social and stuff.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so for her to feel like Kyle still checking her on that is tough.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting with, with you mentioned page, I feel like there's like a chain of hierarchy that happens socially in the house where like a lot of the girls used page is like a mouthpiece and then sort of like sat back as like page would go on the attack or like sort of like just say what was on everyone's minds and with her out of the picture I can imagine they're both like
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we don't really have much storyline or we don't have much to participate in if like pages in here saying it for us so I have to get it now right like you know it's serious very much like okay I guess I'm just going to say what's on my mind rather than telling page and bed and having her repeat at the next morning at breakfast yeah that is interesting and I think that they're I think they're stepping up to the plate, but it's definitely affecting the the dynamic and
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: So after this party, they go out and we're kind of back to this sort of hypocrisy thing.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're Kyle sort of like venting to the guys and he's like, you know, Amanda smokes weed, every single night and you know, my apartment smells like a frat house.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so messy.
• 22:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's like living caotically and her mom has had to come clean at their apartment.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: and then Amanda like not knowing what they're talking about comes over and she's like I'm not here.
• 22:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just even dropping like in like kind of a cute playful way and then KJ, I mean, I love like a newbie faux paw, you know, and I'm loving KJ, but he goes, Kyle, man, we're here for you, like as Amanda's there, even though Kyle's currently like, don't tell her what we were talking about.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that busts it, why don't bend?
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But he's like so cagey about wanting to tell her, but it's a hypocrisy of like, okay, wait, wait, wait.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you have been gone every single weekend, January through June, except for one weekend.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're out DJing and partying, but then we're having a problem with a man smoking weed to wind out.
• 23:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting with this particular conversation.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: It kind of blows like open the whole thing you said with the newbies where we see this happen all the time right where the newbies sort of step in it.
• 23:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one thing's in it's, you know, Lindsey and Carl, the next season it's Lindsey and the next boyfriend or Carl and whatever, you know, it's interesting to see them come into this so unprepared to deal with what's going on between page and Kyle, or sorry, Amanda and Greg, they're like,
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh guys, this is really bad and we like literally keep making the wrong choice at every move and I think too with this smoking weed and the partying and all of it One parallel I noticed we mentioned scandal is the random piles of stuff if you guys remember like during scandal that was like another thing that um uh Tom said about Ariana where it's like she's depressed and she just leaves piles of stuff everywhere and it's like yeah, because she's depressed and she hates you
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she's literally miserable.
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she's just doing whatever she wants now.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's what's happening here.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting to see him not recognize that.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's such an interesting parallel.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought about that.
• 24:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that man loves to do that, right?
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: When women stop playing mom, it's the worst thing in the world.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's funny, Littensy later says, like, I've, babyed so many men in my life.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was born to be a mom.
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Amanda's sort of in the same boat, where she's like, I babyed this man.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like, nursed him back to health.
• 24:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like, played house.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like,
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: arranged my whole life around him and his business and like wanting to have kids like all this stuff and like now I'm not going to do that anymore.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to like go out with my friends and smoke weed and like not give a fuck And he can't stand it.
• 24:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: He literally cannot stand it.
• 24:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I guess for her the
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It may be not even the particulars of what he said.
• 25:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the fact that he is telling all those other people his frustrations are not her.
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that I am really liking about the way that they're kind of handling the Kyle.
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Amanda stuff this season already is they're letting them break the fourth wall in pretty subtle ways.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, we talked about the page six story in the premiere and also the fan speculation and stuff like that.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But in this one,
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's this really interesting moment where they're out at a bar in the Hamptons and Sierra and Amanda are like, or Amanda's like, I don't want people to see us fighting and Sierra's like, yeah, people are recording.
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is not something they would have ever had to deal with as a cast.
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even like, maybe even four years ago, like, maybe it just speaks to like the totally changing nature of this show and to like have to think about that as being a factor, like
• 25:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was a time when like the most sort of press this place got in Page Six was like the Hamptonites running to Page Six to be like, there's this party house and like season two season three and we don't want them filming at all.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not letting them film it.
• 26:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not letting them film it surflogg.
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine that reality where they had to like drive like an hour to go anywhere because nobody wanted them to film.
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, I really underscores how much both Lindsey and Carl's relationship campaign in the press and also the post-scand of all of it all and pages like explosive fame over the last two seasons has like really changed like both who watches this show and how people interact with it.
• 26:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: The idea that at one point they would talk about people filming them is just like not something that was ever sort of
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: allowed in the nature of the show or in the language of these castmates.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting to kind of think of them as like the real house was a Beverly Hills who are always talking about that.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, always so aware of the press.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just it's just it does and it does say a lot.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think about very much so and it's like the mechanics of the show are always always been interesting to me because it's like they do spend so much time at this one house.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's where the majority of stuff happened.
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so that is a little bit of like a
• 27:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: protective layer against things leaking and like kind of prying eyes, even though they do these parties, but if they do, it's kind of, if feels pretty controlled in terms of like, all right, you're here this time, you're leaving at this time.
• 27:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a, they're protected from a lot of leaking and stuff, but like,
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: when they do go out they're they're drunk and they're being open and this is also it's funny because they're partying with like kind of their ideal viewer.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like young women who also go to the Hamptons and live in New York and that's who they're kind of speaking to too.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting to think of that, right?
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because like I look at Kyle with the DJing career.
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 27:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It has like an observer critic writer like around the
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: lots and lots of people like engage with these people earnestly like see them as like aspirational and like we want to be like cycled up next to them constantly.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think there's a culture in the Hampton's now where it's like you're going to surf lodge almost to like see what's going down, which is a thing that happens on other shows, right?
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's sort of pump all over again where it's like you buy pump because you want to see the VPR get filmed.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just interesting to think that that's where the Hampton's is out now, right?
• 28:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like once a play of the wealthy that was so
• 28:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, it's just like a TikTok beach resort.
• 28:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he was like, send videos to do more and get that sort of like instant gratification of a being posted.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's jump to this Sierra Lindsay Amanda, drink state in the city.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, a cement Lindsay, you know, he just feels right having her around, of course.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we find out that Kyle and Lindsay had a talk here talking about something else on the phone, and he sort of unloaded on to Lindsay about Amanda.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he feels like he's alone in the relationship.
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Amanda's like, well, there's a reason he feels alone in the relationship.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny for Kyle to say, like, I feel all alone in this relationship.
• 28:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: actively isolating himself because he's traveling to other places every weekend to DJ.
• 28:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's this like, okay, what do you expect?
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want her to like follow you around to all these DJ gigs around the country at that Penn State and other college towns?
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then we all we got back into this idea of like constant rumors.
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: She gets DMs all the time.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is where it's really surprising to me because, you know, the revelation in the trailer that Kyle had fallen asleep at a fan's apartment.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: and come home at six o'clock in the morning.
• 29:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people figured, okay, that's like a later in the season reveal.
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's gonna be a part of this like bigger thing.
• 29:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the second episode where we don't have a band.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty wild that it came out so early.
• 29:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that was a big deal.
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's one of those things where we were mentioning sort of like the blogs earlier in people recording, you know, Salt Lake City has this problem where like you'll be in the Reddit trenches and you'll see something in your like, oh God, this is gonna be on Salt Lake City next season,
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: That kind of is not really like played a huge tractor in summer house of late, but it's interesting to see something that I saw like play out on like Reddit and Instagram and real time that was sort of like quickly moved past and dismissed like become literally like the central defining plot line for him Hand of the season it seems like where like this is gonna be the jumping off point for her.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was interesting to see that it's also just interesting to see her in Lindsey make the
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: same dynamic happen over and over again where like you know Lindsey secretly buddy buddies Kyle not secretly but like her legions is with Kyle right like she came into the house with Kyle she's been friends with Kyle before the show and at certain points you know Amanda confides in her and then Lindsey ends up burning her you know because she either tells Kyle what Amanda said or like sides with Kyle in an argument and so I wonder if motherhood and the
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: will have changed Lindsay for the better where she can like sort of you know keep it either neutral or like see where Amanda's coming from and not immediately tell Kyle but them all being on the spin-off in the city tells me that like this dynamic isn't done with and like I don't think that's going to stay peaceful between the three of these women for the rest of the season.
• 30:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great observation and I do think that's like sort of
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: recently.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I might have been even when I, I interviewed her very quickly at Bravacon.
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And she said the hernlands you have never been closer.
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that you're, I think that you're hunched that like maybe motherhood and just like even more maturity from Lindsay, you know, maybe you're pushing her to like, maybe take a step back and like look at it.
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: One relate to the situation from her experience with Carl, but also like, I think with Lindsay as, you know, she comes to the PR world.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like I think with a decade on this show,
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: what we're talking about in terms of optics and like where you land on like you know and when there's a breakup where you land in when there's big issue where you're landing I think she is a lot more awareness about that than she did before the car will break up for sure yeah I think like what happened with Carl like if the Carl stuff hadn't happened like this thing with Turner we would see her still trying to like make it work and like you know fall over and try to like defend their relationship and keep it private and like do all the things that like we've come to know Lindsay to do in relationships with men
• 32:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: But with Turner, it seems like she kind of just cut and run when it wasn't working for her, and she's like, no, I'm done with this.
• 32:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, screw him, not even maybe screw him, but like, I'm moving on.
• 32:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not worth it.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's my team.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I do hope because ultimately, like, I think when all of the women are getting along and the men are acting badly, I think the show just like glides along so much sooner because it's the women that are like the backbone of the show, like narratively, right?
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like when they're all fighting, it just sort of,
• 32:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: grinds to a halt, which I think was a problem in sort of like season 9 in season 10 where it's like none of them got along, limsey versus everyone, newbies versus everyone, everyone's on the outs with each other and it's like, what are we even watching?
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: When they're all hanging out, it just gives it more momentum, I think.
• 32:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this scene was super enjoyable.
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was a great scene.
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I know, 100% know, I think that they're, I think I talked about this recently, like,
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: The worst summer house season in the past six years was the one where Lindsey and Danielle had their friendship fall out.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that was not an enjoyable, central conflict.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And as you said, it granted everything to a whole.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was awkward for everybody.
• 33:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was, and I think the kind of man to stuff is going to be awkward for people, but in a different way, and you're right when the girls are aligned, like, I love all of them.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I love all the, all the women on this show.
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like,
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: it's so much more fun for me to see Sierra and Lindsay as friends and like it's taken some time for them to get to this place you know like this is a great scene and it's like two years ago we would not have seen Sierra and Lindsay getting drinks together no
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just, I also just love where Sierra is at on this show, not only do I just love looking at her on my television because she is such a good dresser and so beautiful, but she also like she says in the premiere is so much more than that and we're really getting to see that side of her I think in the last two seasons, but this season she really seems like super solid and like who she wants to be both as herself and also like on this show in these dynamics.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: very much, so she feels very assured.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll loop back to that in a second, but we have to talk with the other in the city scene, Carl and Kyle sit down at Carl's apartment.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kyle's like, you know, I'm embarrassed about my behavior.
• 34:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm ashamed that I was talking about a relationship to other people.
• 34:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel bad, but I'm under pressure with lover boy, I've put $500,000 in my own money into this company to keep it running.
• 34:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I need stop paying himself a salary.
• 34:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's part of why he started to DJ, which I actually, I buy that actually.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there are other reasons why I started to DJ, but I think that Luke's back around nicely for me.
• 34:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Carl doesn't want Kyle and Amanda to go through what he and Lindsey went through.
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that is where
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he was saying a lot without saying exactly it, which is like the public drag through of it all.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was the context for me about Carl was saying there.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was, you know, public enemy number one for a little bit there.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want this to happen to Carl because it's really difficult to get through that.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I don't think that Kyle would start, like, Carl is ultimately sympathetic, right?
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, disregard everything and despite all of his choices and like, what is it?
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are we at Kyle 8.0 now?
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he is ultimately like a sympathetic figure.
• 35:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he has, there's like a reason for the way that he was and what he became and like, what he was struggling with after his sobriety and like,
• 35:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: with Kyle he doesn't have that sympathy right like he is a go-getter he's ambitious he like will stop it nothing to make his business successful and it's like his single drive in life he has not been very nice to amend it for the last 10 years on television you know they started a sort of like a fling that he didn't care about yeah
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: has all these seasons of disrespecting her.
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't have any of the goodwill that Carl has to like, weather a mass public turning on him.
• 35:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying that he deserves it.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying like, if the chips were to fall that way, I think Carl accurately recognizes that like, my friend is a little bit less defensible.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there's something else in this scene to Carl mentions he was gonna move to Charleston, amid all of it.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, I'm done with all this.
• 36:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't wanna do this anymore.
• 36:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna move to Charleston.
• 36:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did he think he was going to get on Southern Charmed?
• 36:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Could we see Carl on Southern Charmer?
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do we think that he was thinking like, that's exile?
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like out of Bravo, just in Charleston for no reason.
• 36:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't be thinking I'm moving out of Bravo of a withdrawal sin.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't, like I'm sorry, that is a small town city.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is essentially, I went there last year for the first time, you know, very long time.
• 36:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was like Bravo Disneyland on that main street with all those, you know, as we're public and all that stuff.
• 36:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like,
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're maybe correct.
• 36:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's sort of like, all right, this isn't working for me anymore.
• 36:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say something, maybe this is not generous, but it's like I'm going to move to a show where the viewers are more sympathetic to men, you know, where like that shows a stop at the face actually likes men more than women.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we'll get to the big difference, but that's a big differentiator between the shows.
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
• 36:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: The last thing that Kyle says here, he says that he does not think they're on the brink of collapse and he can't imagine his life without Amanda, she puts all of their issues on him, but he doesn't want to correct her.
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's interesting because I think that part of me, like one side of my brain, has been like, did they?
• 37:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: know they're going to force going to this season, like, is that sort of, they're sort of holding the decision until filming star data or something like that.
• 37:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know, I think he believes this.
• 37:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he believes they weren't on the brink.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that I think maybe a man didn't knew that this is they're inevitable fate, and she was maybe letting it play out.
• 37:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Kyle knew.
• 37:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I believe he didn't believe they're on the brink of claps.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: we have seen these two be so calculated in the house and sort of like I don't want to call them puppet masters because that's like overplaying what they do but like they have been like the core people where they get their own master they're the married couple they go and they sleep together off camera like plan how they're going to talk about things and we've seen what it looks like when they're being strategic right like Amanda can barely keep it together she's like not this
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you were so keen at me.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get my season and you're going to humiliate yourself and we're going to like break up off camera and like just let it play out on camera Kyle's way too prideful for that.
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I think what we're just seeing is she knows it's done and she's just like letting it ride until she files for divorce She probably doesn't want to do that in the house because I don't think a house like this could survive a divorce happening in the middle of it while there
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, she knows better.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's just mentally checked out even if the D word hasn't come into it, but Kyle is way too prideful to have filmed this season like this knowing the way that he is, you're right, he knew he was getting divorced, you're right.
• 38:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And my, my guess last week, Kelly, she said she had a good point.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: She was like, it's at that stage of a breakup or like, one of them knows it's happening.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: but they're talking about it to other people because they don't have the courage yet or the brave readers like have a conversation with each other.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it looks like that conversation's coming up next week on the Brother Having One of those conversations.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it does feel like that.
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It feels like she's been holding on to a lot of stuff and she's unloading on to him.
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: But she hasn't really addressed things at all.
• 39:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we find out between the two weekends
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: they don't talk about anything and that's what leads to this end of the episode where they're having dinner and Kyle raises his glass and he's like, I apologize, everybody from, you know, making our issues, everybody else's issues and then he's like, I'm not done.
• 39:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then he starts, you know, talking directly to Amanda, and I love Sierra being like, I mean, the you for your reference.
• 39:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just fucking speech about it about you.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, so good, it becomes a, it becomes a Sierra Kyle situation.
• 39:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I got total,
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: flashbacks to last season when Paige and Kyle had that blow up over their outdoor dinner were going to have a page storm back into the house.
• 40:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And as it's sort of looking back to the earliest part of our conversation where it's like Sierra is sort of stepping into the Paige role of like being antagonist for Kyle, which is very natural.
• 40:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not like put on or anything, but she's letting herself lean into that, which is fun to watch.
• 40:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say like the thing that I think is so interesting about like sort of the way that Amanda's friends have to react to her relationship.
• 40:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think historically and if I'm going to give like a little bit of grace, you know, like the giggly squad in the beginning, if you look at like that COVID season conflict.
• 40:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of it was like, they're being told things about Kyle, they're seeing things about Kyle and that's their friend and they're like, angry about it.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like, you speak to her crazy.
• 40:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: You speak to the rest of us crazy.
• 40:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're not a good boy, friend or a good husband.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like, then, you know, Amanda gets put in the middle because
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, she probably complains to all of her friends about Kyle constantly.
• 41:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they're like, well, I have to defend you, but then she would get defended and then she would get upset because it's like, don't get in the middle of us.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think now like that she's totally checked out.
• 41:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's way more refreshing because like Sierra does go on the attack.
• 41:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then Amanda joins in on the attack, which is like not a thing that she usually does.
• 41:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like Usually she's like, oh god, I can't believe that like you're being mean to my boyfriend or like don't do that Like I told you that in confidence like don't get in the middle.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're making it worse, et cetera So I like that and that's why I said like pages and totally blameless You know, I think she definitely has used page and CRS specifically to like vent her frustrations and S friends who care about her.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not just going to like sit here and let him be crazy or like act weird or disrespect you, you know, and that's a hard position to be in as a friend where you absolutely your friends don't standing up for themselves, especially, especially on the show where it's like kind of part of being a successful cast member on summer house involves somewhat accepting that Kyle is that number one guy and sort of the headhonshow of the group and like there are ways to assert your power around that and I think to surpass him, especially for sort of like,
• 42:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: appealing to the audience in a way, you know, but that is like a reality of the show.
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that for Sierra to sort of now be able to like, because also part of the Gigalysquad bed bugs of it all has been like, okay, let him be king in this house, like, whatever, we don't go about fuck.
• 42:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we'll be in bed talking shit, like who cares if he wants to be, you know, the the fat house president, you know, exactly.
• 42:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: The last thing I want to say before we move on from summer house is I really loved two things.
• 42:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: One is CR brings a new friend Mia to the house who seems I love her energy.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I met her at the premiere party she's fantastic.
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: She feels like good on screen, you know, she's one of those people you can just tell is like you're going to like her.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you get good vibes from her?
• 42:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like her.
• 42:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got to say like I really enjoy all of the new cast.
• 42:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: KJ seems like a great addition.
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bailey and I will remember the other new girl's name eventually.
• 43:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: She hasn't gotten much screen time, so I just haven't had like much time to stick with.
• 43:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Levi, Levi, yes.
• 43:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love their energy
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: together.
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like them like looking at each other during dinners.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a very classic thing we see on this show.
• 43:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of times new girls get thrust into the dynamic and don't have a partner in it.
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, I think it was very successful for Paige to come on with a friend like, look where she's went on this show together with the friend and otherwise.
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I like all of them in this new girl.
• 43:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Great vibes from her too.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's a really refreshing new cast and this new cast of boys being a little bit more under their feet I guess you know like West and Jesse like they brought a really good energy to the show and so it's like kind of a new era I think the old dark feels their way out like feet is feeling they're on there Yeah, well, it's like there's the there is a spin-off and it's this important It's an important season to have this transition where you can set people up or success
• 43:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when Kyle, when Amanda, when Lindsay and Carl are there and speaking of KJ, the last thing I just loved the conversation between him and Sierra, well, yeah, for dinner on that second weekend, it just felt like, I mean a couple things, it's like it's hard to get to see her to open up like that and for him to be able to do that like after one week of knowing her.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is really I think speaks to his how he's been able to make inroads with the cast already and connect with people and it's it's also hard I think for men to work on this show You had so many one season wonders on something or house when it comes to I mean guys and girls, but I think of Emerald from last summer Who was just like so in on unable to connect with anybody and like there was this sort of contingent of the viewership online That was like give him a chance like bring it back again.
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like
• 44:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, like he seems like a nice guy, but he made no efforts to actually get to know people.
• 44:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we compare that to KJ who after two episodes is connecting with Sierra on such an emotional level.
• 44:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's crying and they're sharing their stories with each other.
• 44:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just love, I thought it was a beautiful scene and just spoke to his abilities and promise like as a person on this show.
• 44:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I mentioned this in my column, which it was very cute.
• 45:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: He posted an excerpt from it on his Instagram, right up for the premiere, which I was like, oh, that's a very cute thing for new bravo people to do.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look at that, I lost that I got.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And anyways, in that, one of the things I said was like, I was kind of making a crack, you know, we have anxiety now, which is like, I think a lot of the men on the show have their own struggles with mental health.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, now we have anxiety in the mix, which I think is interesting.
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And while I was using it as like a little bit of a wise crack tongue in cheek,
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: On this show, I think for a long time, you had very repressed men, like Harlem Kyle, where they kept everything inside and then would explode, and it's refreshing to see people like Jesse and West, and now KJ come in and show that like men, and this like, especially our age and younger are changing, like the way they relate to each other is changing, the language they use is changing, like they're
• 45:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Identities are like their ideas about themselves are changing and like I couldn't imagine in 2011 Person like KJ coming on or even the person like West coming on and like talking about anxiety attacks and being like Did I do the right thing for you in the moment is that what you needed?
• 46:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like is there anything else I can do?
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like it just felt very refreshing.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It felt very modern and sort of like what the show felt like in the beginning Which was like a new kind of thing we hadn't seen before
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's so well said and it's like it's also, it speaks to it that it didn't feel cheesy or put on or like made you want to roll your eyes like a felt genuine and it fits you know which is important to it because that is something that I wouldn't always react well to seeing if it didn't feel authentic.
• 46:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: like imagine Kyle trying to have that conversation, you know, like, I would roll my eyes.
• 46:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'd be like, oh, brother, now he's going to talk about how he's depressed, which like not to diminish, you know, men struggles with mental health.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, it also comes from who's saying it.
• 46:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think KJ is just a really refreshing addition.
• 46:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so is this new ground interested to see what her dynamic with the other girls are good too.
• 46:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, well, lots of new people and just so I'm so like ha- I'm like happy or that this season of summer house is all I was I watch it a nice smile like I do I like this is so fucking good on Bravo.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not smiling a whole lot right now It's like this in VPR from being or the reasons to get out of bed every week.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's move over
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: to Southern Charm, the city that Carl was maybe potentially going to move to.
• 47:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so we're at Whits Farm.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I love a little like a trip that's a good day or two.
• 47:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love one of those on one of these shows, because it breaks up the monotony of being in the city, but it's not their big trip.
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome broke up with Audrey before this trip.
• 47:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's been trickling out in this kind of like,
• 47:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: way that as a viewer like you just kind of feel uncomfortable because you know that like it's going to come to a head where like it's going to be discussed in the presence of somebody that has not been told yet or like the person's going to also going to feel pressured to tell XYZ person so it it's uncomfortable to finally tell a chef at the end of this episode and he takes it well but and I guess he hasn't told Craig yet directly but Craig knows yeah I guess I'm just glad that Austin finally broke off with Audrey and sort of put her out of her misery because
• 48:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: it lasted a little too long.
• 48:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or a lot too long.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting, like, you know, one of the things that makes the show compelling and also a dismal experience at times is Craig's like profound lack of self-awareness, like his reaction to, you know, that relationship and like the whole you're dragging her along, you're like streaming her on, like yada yada yada, it's like
• 48:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but look at all the women in your life.
• 48:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have literally done that too or also like look at the way you're treating the women in your life currently like with this whole Sally thing like it is like dude literally looking the mirror for five seconds.
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so infuriating and so yeah, I think it's one of those unfortunate times where Craig was right.
• 49:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay, shut up, whatever you say, sure.
• 49:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, with with Craig and Austin, they just like, they're at this point in their relationship, where they just can't admit they have anything in common, they just they have such like to stay in for each other right now that
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: any similarities that are pointed out.
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, no, I'm not that way.
• 49:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, two socks.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, it's, it's, it's, they have this like this role react into each other right now.
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so, oh, I mean,
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's interesting too because there are so many things that like Craig could have like you're mad at me because my business is successful and yours is failing like there's so many things like that in their dynamic where it's like yeah it's interesting to watch it play out but as a viewer season to season now it's just sort of like let one of them go just cut one of them loose and this show will be so much smoother sailing like I don't enjoy watching men like gossip and fight with each other it's not enjoyable to me because they're
• 50:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so funny because it's like I go so back and forth southern charm because I I have the same frustrations as you know But also it's something then there are some weeks from just like I think I just have to accept what this show is you know like it's it's just it's not It never really has been for the girls like yes, maybe you could argue that like in the camp era.
• 50:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was like more that way, but At this point it just feels like this is the it is feeling like they're their show This is their show and everybody else is sort of a supporting character and like
• 50:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing.
• 50:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say something that might anger people and I'm fine with it.
• 50:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like listen, if she has done something hideous in the meantime, like I am not just standing by it.
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking purely from what I know watching this TV show, which is like Naomi and the best.
• 50:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: The best this other time it was was like Naomi season where it was like the girls club in reaction to the boys club where they're like, we're not going to put up with the boys club anymore.
• 51:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know her maybe maybe not cheating on Craig cutting and running with that other guy and like leaving the show was like The best choice anyone on this show has ever made because she accurately assessed that like she was never gonna be the hero She was never gonna get a fair shake.
• 51:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was ultimately always gonna be about Craig Shep and now Austin and like none of the women on this show ever leave unscathed or are the heroes or get to be
• 51:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think you also see Madison recognize that too where like the reason why she plays so neutral with the guys is because like that's the path to being successful on this show.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think she came in very hot in the beginning justifiably and was correct in all of her estimations of everybody.
• 51:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like viewers hated her.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: The guys on the show railed against her and said the most horrible things about her and so she's like stepped back and she's like Yeah, boys whatever you're just the boys.
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna film with Patricia every week and like you know Make like throw away comments about my pregnancy and like that's her role now because she realizes it can't be
• 52:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: more than that.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like she can stir the pot passively, but she can't get in it because getting in it turns you into a Sally or a Veneto, where like no matter what you do, you're always going to be in the wrong, you know?
• 52:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get, can we talk about Veneto really quick?
• 52:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 52:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 52:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Veneto and Sally thing.
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It came to a head.
• 52:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, this episode, I guess, because it had been sort of set up or like Molly and Sally had their come to Jesus or they're like, wait, Venita was sort of the instigator in terms of this comment about Molly's procedure that she had done.
• 52:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And also like Venita had apologized to Molly for that, but she had not kind of accurately represented how she said that to Sally.
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so it becomes a small man where they're at the lake or the pool, wherever the, where are the fuck on the, on the, on the, on which property they were, where do you, where do you land with this I think that leg.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have staunchly defended Venetta for a few seasons because like she got such an unfair shake, both like in how she was brought on to the show, the sort of topics the show forced her to address head on and sort of like be the avatar of and stand for and like the way that the show works with just women but also women of color black women specifically which was like a very difficult position for her to be in.
• 53:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then the last few seasons have happened and it's been sort of like, okay, I actually can't explain why you're acting like this or your choices because with the whole Sally of it all, it's like, yeah, you're technically right, but like you're just
• 53:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Letting yourself get humiliated over and over again.
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like at what point, like what's the game here, right?
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like with men or with your friends or with any of it, I'm just like, I can't understand what her choices are and like where she's coming from.
• 53:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like yeah, Craig will walk her like a dog, but like,
• 53:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: you're lusting after a guy who had a girlfriend the whole time and then when you found out you kept lusting after him so like I don't know like what exactly do you want and the sort of lack of self-awareness is just really tough that said Sally's acting like a serial killer can we just say it like her energy is on one it's a sinister yeah it's definitely a sinister and like
• 54:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the thing is really difficult because I'm just like she also I think that Sally is right that she is she's not really taking accountability Like she has a modest to Molly with twice now, which is she's about to smiley, but like I am also kind of sick of it You know walking away from conflict when she gets called out like she gets tearful and emotional and but like you have said these things You have repeated these things you have acted this way so like
• 54:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just want her to stand ten toes down and sit there and defend herself and like throw it back at Sally, you know, like there's plenty to criticize Sally about you know, but so much like the constant walking away is I mean, she's asleep over.
• 55:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: She left this.
• 55:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's another one.
• 55:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's really frustrating because you want a route for her, but you can't really in this moment.
• 55:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, and then like when like she sort of cornered about her choices or like cornered about what she does like at reunions She does this like if she's not walking away.
• 55:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: She sort of does the like Coi secretive like did I do that like oh, I don't oh gosh Oh, I don't want to say like sweet cutesy thing that like also kind of drives me up a wall like especially with the whole I had completely forgot that man's name.
• 55:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so sorry the one who's now what move JT Thailand yet JC move that I live sold all of his belongings
• 55:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, me also after being on southern tarmac as to, but like, like with that, it's like even when she was called out for it, she kind of did the same routine of like walking away and then when finally cornered was like, I don't know, yeah, I did call them and we did see each other and it's like just
• 55:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Stand by what you did.
• 55:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you did.
• 55:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's fine.
• 55:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look, Shep has been the most horrible person.
• 55:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Made the most horrible choices.
• 55:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like this show has moved on from it.
• 56:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: These people that are his friends have moved on from it.
• 56:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they will move on from whatever it is that you've done.
• 56:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't have to run away from conflict.
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I mean.
• 56:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like just grinds the whole thing to a halt in a way that makes it a slog.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 56:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, and again, like her, her two sort of adversaries here, Craig and Sally.
• 56:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are people that you can
• 56:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are things that are like sort of right there for her for for need to use against them, but she just she can't bring herself to go there.
• 56:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the Sally of it all, I Molly was right that the body is even cold and Sally's like on Austin's lap, essentially like it is just like adult like she is fair all for Austin.
• 56:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that also Charlie's right that like let her do that because like that it takes her off of Craig and Charlie.
• 56:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's enjoyable to call it dynamic.
• 56:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's like kind of like this cat and mouse like maze I am watching through my fingers though because like I mean listen like I guess maybe like let's address like I guess maybe I have internalized misogyny where like Craig does the same thing to women shape and Austin do the same thing to women and then when it's like a woman doing the same kind of thing it's like oh God, I don't want to see that but I guess it's maybe like
• 57:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: watching her, it's like, she says the thing about his dad bought, right, Austin's dad bought it.
• 57:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's just, that's the kind of guy that I like.
• 57:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, but you were just telling us how Craig was the perfect guy.
• 57:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think for her, she just convinces herself that every object of her affection, it's like exactly what she wants.
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like, how actually, like, all been there, right?
• 57:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 57:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've all been there, but it is like, girl, let's heal.
• 57:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, let's heal.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's address this, because like, you went from a guy who has chatGPT psychosis to a guy who's like running a failing beer company.
• 57:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really I got the subtext here is that she wants to cement her spa on the show.
• 57:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and so there's these two guys Because she's not gonna go for shit, right?
• 57:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's off the table.
• 57:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I guess for her.
• 57:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Craig Goant her and now she's on to Austin and you know, I guess in some ways I admire the
• 58:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: the like Hutspa, and then the drive, all so part of you isn't just like, oh, Sally girl.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Charlie, too, I think one thing I was noticing is like, I think with her and wit who are the newcomers this season, I don't trust either of them.
• 58:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't trust like what they say and I don't trust their intentions.
• 58:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: know what this show is, right?
• 58:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like this show is very much like Southern, sorry, summer house where it's like you come on and you have to go through the gauntlet of Craig Shep and Austin either sleeping with one of them, having slept with one of them or dating one of them to like be on this show.
• 58:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so with, you know, Sally, it's so obvious that that's what she's doing, but Charlie's presenting it a little less obvious, but like watching her in scenes with Craig, I'm like, you might as well be a mannequin in this scene, right where she doesn't she doesn't really say anything, she doesn't really affirm anything that she's saying and when she hears that he's talking about her if you watch her body language in that scene, she sort of like, so I heard this and then he justifies it and she's like,
• 59:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and it's this game I think she's playing with him where it's like give him just enough that, you know, he becomes interested and he like is like, I have to chase her stay disinterested enough that he continues to chase but have the ulterior motive that you're doing this to be on the show like I just find her game much more obvious or like, I mean more subtle but like I see it so obviously that it's like hard with wit.
• 59:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe anything about his breakup.
• 59:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the other thing.
• 59:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where I don't choose him at all.
• 59:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's totally his side of it.
• 59:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he has clues in this episode about what really happened in that relationship, but we'll get there.
• 59:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why do they clue?
• 59:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, he's talking about his anger a lot this season, and then when he talked about it originally, he's like, like, you know, she just up and left me, and there was nothing I did wrong, you know, she said all these things I did wrong, et cetera.
• 59:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then over the last couple episodes, he's been like, I have this deep simmering burning
• 1:00:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, yada yada, but I keep it under the surface, you know, I don't like let it out or whatever and his family dynamic and their whole like sort of like gentle like smiling southern hospitality like I guess maybe I'm so suspicious I'm like, I don't trust any of it.
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't trust what you think happened to your breakup.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't trust your family.
• 1:00:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't like the vibe at this farm like get me out of here.
• 1:00:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Truly like get me out before someone kills me.
• 1:00:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's my vibe.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then he also.
• 1:00:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: like inserted himself into the Sally Vanita hash out in a kind of random figure play.
• 1:00:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then also like I sort of one of my like Roman Empire for the season has been Sally on wash happens live because Andy was like, why is nobody sort of interested in Whittner?
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like he seems like a great guy.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like has a good job, has his life together.
• 1:00:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: and Sally said something along lines of like, well, nobody hasn't seen the real winner yet or something.
• 1:00:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: See, that's what I'm saying, like it's like as a viewership, you're picking up on clues, but I think generally speaking, if you're watching the season, like you're not really seeing much of that or adding it all, I'm been so it's like, what was Sally talking about?
• 1:01:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe this is what she's talking about.
• 1:01:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and we've also seen him get again because he doesn't have a driving storyline this season.
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the others, he's sort of being like background charactered a lot.
• 1:01:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's scenes where if you're watching him, he's like blackout drunk and like a lot of the scenes by the end of it.
• 1:01:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he's very drunk and like very wasted.
• 1:01:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm like,
• 1:01:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're like operating on the level that like Craig and Chef operate on when they party, but we're just like not seeing the effect of that or like what that looks like in practice when you're interacting with other people, women, men, whatever, interesting.
• 1:01:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like with him, it's like, I totally buy what you're saying about their being a sinister thing.
• 1:01:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do think he fits in well with his boys and the other thing is that like,
• 1:01:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: part of me just because like I love Molly like I just like love her vibe and like she's funny genuinely and like she seems like a normal person and just like but there's not much for her to do on this show and I just like I need her to somehow get a footholding because I don't want her to be taken away from us too soon.
• 1:02:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so part of me was like, oh, it's like hook up with the winner, you know, but I but also I don't want that for her, you know, her dynamic with Whitney makes me not Whitney.
• 1:02:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Whitney makes me sad a little bit like watching that.
• 1:02:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like true.
• 1:02:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like as a long time.
• 1:02:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: viewer of the show and sort of like, you know, what Whitney represents a lot of the women on this cast.
• 1:02:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It makes me feel like, oh, but I do love her as a person, like as a character.
• 1:02:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's so interesting and she's sort of this like millennial cringe character where she's like a horny nymphoma, not a horny nymphomaniac, a horny kleptomaniac.
• 1:02:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: There we go, right?
• 1:02:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like she's like always horny and also a hoarder.
• 1:02:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I find that so funny in context.
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she plays this insane instrument and like sort of stands in the background of scenes being like, what's going on here?
• 1:03:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Did I do that?
• 1:03:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I like love it.
• 1:03:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love it in practice.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm just obsessed with watching her.
• 1:03:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wish she had a better role.
• 1:03:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like you see, maybe they could just have her lean in to being like,
• 1:03:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: the Kathy Hilton yeah you're like point of humor for the show like they could maybe do that because I I really think that she's a great a great presence on this show she reminds me of like a Kristen wig character yeah yeah yeah so speaking of um Beverly Hills speaking of
• 1:03:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, honestly, at the birth, the double birth, they dinner.
• 1:03:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was fantastic.
• 1:03:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought, like, people have been racking on the season of Beverly Hill, it was being boring and not inspired.
• 1:03:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought this dinner was amazing.
• 1:03:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Although it was really good TV, there's a lot going on.
• 1:03:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of them got involved.
• 1:03:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:03:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I watched that episode and I was like, all right.
• 1:03:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm down for this.
• 1:03:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that Rachel's so like I was writing when she was coming back on to TV where I was kind of I did this like longer piece on her where it's like if you look at what she represented back in the day like she was so
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: calculated and controlling on the Rachelzo project, and that is like something that makes people like not very successful on Beverly Hills and also is like what is not successful about Beverly Hills right now.
• 1:04:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I was really sort of wondering like is she going to kind of maintain that like arms length distance from the show.
• 1:04:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want people like back on the Rachelzo project.
• 1:04:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want people to know about what's being said about me in the press or like all the rumors and like stuff like that or like what my clients may or may not be doing.
• 1:04:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: She really is just like in it this season in a way where I'm like, oh, it's very refreshing.
• 1:04:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like she's bringing this like sort of divining broad presence to the cast where, you know, what's her name Amanda said something and she's like, why would she say that?
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: That brings literally nothing to the conversation or like add a dinner.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's kind of doing it and she's like, this is literally stupid.
• 1:04:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like this is a meaningless argument, you know?
• 1:05:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like,
• 1:05:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm mad because my public divorce leaked in the press in a thing I did publicly and now everyone's talking about it like that sort of thing to like how just so random and like in consequential a lot of her drama is it's just refreshing especially on a show bogged down so much by like the press and the Kyle versus Dorita bit all and like what we're not saying about Erica I just I find her presence refreshing in a way maybe a man is also refreshing which is a controversial opinion amongst fans but like
• 1:05:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's bringing a lot of energy to this cast, you know, like she's in here shaking it up in a way no one has been able to shake it up in a while 100% Rachel completely agree on that.
• 1:05:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that she has nothing to lose when it comes to her divorce and if she's opening up all of it
• 1:05:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: which is such a, it's start, it's in start contrast to Kyle and what we've got for over the past three years that that sort of internet itself and then also she does have this air of being like, I don't think she feels above it, but she just in, I think it like inherently has some of that.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's above it.
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing that they live to her up.
• 1:06:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people have pointed this out where the hierarchy has traditionally been like Kyle at the top, Kathy slightly above her, and then everything trickles down from that.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now there's someone finally who's like above that, right?
• 1:06:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that was why they went on the attack with Denise, because I think they thought Denise was gonna...
• 1:06:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: You pie that slot of personality and what he's actually famous, but she couldn't fulfill that role.
• 1:06:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like this, I think is perfect because it's like finally a new hierarchy.
• 1:06:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Things have like really swapped places.
• 1:06:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's no longer Sutton's the kicking bag and kiles up a top.
• 1:06:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone has to negotiate those two extreme extremes.
• 1:06:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, here comes Rachel.
• 1:06:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone thinks she's way more famous and popular than them.
• 1:06:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she's really controlling the dynamic in a way I enjoy.
• 1:06:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that Amanda is both.
• 1:06:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: it and I mean Amanda, I agree that she's been such so good for the show.
• 1:06:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like they needed somebody like this.
• 1:06:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wish that it was somebody for me person that like I liked more, like hopefully like her, like I find her to be like so painful and cringe, but like in a way that like I understand their reaction to her, but then because it is everybody against her,
• 1:07:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then it becomes like, oh wait, do you sympathize a little bit with her because she's the one-off person?
• 1:07:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: They never learn.
• 1:07:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: They never learn.
• 1:07:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: They never learn.
• 1:07:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: The like universal gang up does not work.
• 1:07:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like how many seasons have we watched it play out where it's everybody against one person and they emerge the hero?
• 1:07:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like how many times have we seen that?
• 1:07:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Amanda's so...
• 1:07:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: unlikable that that won't happen here, Nessa said, I agree, but like it is just in practice, like if we didn't know anything about like her business or what she says in the press, or like how weirdly controlling she is, like to the tabloids or to the media interviewing her, it's like, if that was all taken away, she could have walked out of this sympathetic, because it's like a playbook we see happen at the time.
• 1:08:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will say I'm happy to hear there was like these rumors that she had like dropped out of filming or something like that.
• 1:08:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm and she was like that's bullshit.
• 1:08:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, like I'm I'm in.
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm I'm happy to hear that because I do.
• 1:08:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy she's there like that.
• 1:08:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like across the board.
• 1:08:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, you know what?
• 1:08:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like you are really Riley in the girls up and you are out here, you know, saying that to read verbally a costed you and you're defining the you're defining the word in real time off your phone and she's like, you know, it's this classic thing also where this new person comes in and she's like
• 1:08:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why do we have to solve conflict this way like why do we have like I'm so not used like being in dinner party where like I leave in tears and like we argue like this and it's like girl Like do know what show you're on but like she has this like
• 1:08:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: lack of something that prevents her from accepting or thinks she thinks she can change it, like genuinely speaking.
• 1:08:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we've sort of seen this like, you know, the avatar of the girl boss kind of like coalesce over the last 10 years on housewives where you get these women that are like, they want us, they come in with like the agenda of like promoting a business, like all this therapy speak like they're younger, so they don't want to like sort of get in the
• 1:09:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that she's really like the death now of that on these shows where it's like we're really seeing in real time that like both audiences don't want to watch that and also like it's not it doesn't hold up when you put her again somebody like Doree who is vicious right like she is vicious and she's going to put that therapy speak and she's going to be like You're a fucking bitch and I hate you.
• 1:09:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what Doree said, but she might as well have you know and I it's interesting to watch
• 1:09:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: boundaries in the like, you know, you're you're you're overstepping my boundaries all that that Amanda does.
• 1:09:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting to just watch it completely fall apart very much so I know this stand up.
• 1:09:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Lewis Staples, who was a writer, who's written about a housewife lot.
• 1:09:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: He tweeted that, like, she's kind of an exemplary of this, like, millennial problem, sort of, and the housewives has.
• 1:09:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like this sort of older man who speaks in that way.
• 1:10:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the girl, girl boss thing.
• 1:10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And even the way that you were just talking about how she comes across is kind of exactly what I was talking about with the K-Jane West thing, where it's like, they're talking about anxiety, and all the stuff, and it feels like very natural, and real, and the way that she talks about all this boundaries, and just like, woo, woo ideas.
• 1:10:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about?
• 1:10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's an Instagram infographic come to life where it's like infographics about infographics about a lot of Yeah, and that's the thing it's like it's like if you trained an AI model exclusively on Instagram infographics and then put it into a human body Like that's what she feels like She's talking in your like
• 1:10:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: What you are saying is like not connected to reality like it's not connected to reality You know like you literally are on a TV show you literally talked about Doreeds divorce You said a thing about Doreeds divorce that Doreed took issue with she confronted you about it and now it's like Why would you ever say anything to me about that?
• 1:10:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's so weird.
• 1:11:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so weird and not like you.
• 1:11:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it also now It's not her opinion at Kyle's opinion that you repeated
• 1:11:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, that's also what a de-rean Amanda thing becomes a de-rean kind of thing.
• 1:11:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: First of all, the de-re-re-re- bringing up the cult thing was a total misdirect, like a total, like, if it came out of nowhere, kind of like mayor to thumb the Salt Lake City reunion, like totally, like, left-yield.
• 1:11:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, Kyle...
• 1:11:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kyle's basically upset with Doree about airing PK out and how that's going to affect their children.
• 1:11:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think the subtext there is actually doing it publicly.
• 1:11:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's obviously doing it on camera and in the press and all the stuff.
• 1:11:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Doree obviously is like, wait, but like you should be
• 1:11:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: in my corner creating the safe space for me to open up and to vent, because that's what girlfriends do.
• 1:11:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because Dread is also opening up in a way that Kyle has never done about Mauricio since then, and so the Kyle thinks that it's her way is the best way, because they've been able to maintain whatever relationship they have.
• 1:11:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that Kyle is looking out for Dread?
• 1:12:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it so weirdly defensive of a P.K.?
• 1:12:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, where are you falling when it comes to there?
• 1:12:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's their central conflict.
• 1:12:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:12:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing, I'm gonna actually introduce a third thing, which is that Kyle is doing is reacting to nothing.
• 1:12:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, Kyle is reacting to a way that she was taught to behave, that she, helling still has not addressed, which is like centering and prioritizing men.
• 1:12:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, so much a Beverly Hills has been the effect that Big Coffee had on the, like, you know, Richard Sisters.
• 1:12:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: and in all of those relationships but more so in Kyle so much about her run on Beverly Hills has been her failure to see men as like villains as aggressors as people who are at the source of conflict as you know people who are to blame for things like
• 1:12:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think of Taylor constantly, where her first instinct when Taylor was talking about the abuse that she was suffering from Russell was to say, well, I can't imagine that from Russell, because he seems like such a nice guy, and she doubled down on that for most of the season.
• 1:13:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think about, like, with PK now, or even Mauricio, where it's like, well, no, Mauricio can't be a bad guy, because he's like a great father, you know, PK can't be a great guy.
• 1:13:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a great dad.
• 1:13:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think like this is just,
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: how she sees the world and like if she was to interrogate it, there's so many things in her life that would probably start to fall apart.
• 1:13:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really don't think she has addressed what really happened in her marriage.
• 1:13:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever it was, whether it was cheating, infidelity, like growing separate of each other, whatever it is.
• 1:13:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: We really are never going to know.
• 1:13:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: She hasn't really addressed it and I think on the after show, it's interesting, which I'm assuming
• 1:13:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're watching.
• 1:13:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:13:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: She talked about how she spent Christmas with him in Aspen and his behavior.
• 1:13:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I think was a wake-up call for her where she was like, oh, I am like defending somebody who does not feel the same about me and like I have to move on.
• 1:13:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think maybe she's getting there but like at the time the season is airing and even when they filmed the first part of the after show last October Like she hadn't gotten there yet and in this moment she's just like reacting to something where it's like I don't think she has any loyal loyalty to P.K.
• 1:14:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: She just has like loyalty to the concept of the men generally interesting.
• 1:14:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 1:14:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean I feel that the after show I'm at your alluding to is really
• 1:14:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: is really telling.
• 1:14:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember her talking about that and he's just fascinating that it's taken her this long to get into that point.
• 1:14:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I feel like all of us as viewers could have told her that, like
• 1:14:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, that first summer that they were a single, and he was galleventing around mekano's being, you know, making out people at the airport or whatever it was.
• 1:14:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm happy she's gotten to that place, but it's just fascinating.
• 1:14:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I mean, you know, I guess to give her a little graces, that like she's been in this like institution of a marriage and this like, that's a privilege.
• 1:14:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like obviously it takes a minute to like,
• 1:14:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: actually see outside of that, but it's been years at this point and so and he's been acting a fool in the press for quite some time.
• 1:15:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there are elements of her in Doreats.
• 1:15:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: back and forth that just I mean that that the part of their argument at that dinner where it was like remember and the editors like added some like reverb on it and then it was like slow motion and then Doree repeats it back to her and then there was the other part where Kyle was like you got a stop talking like you got to get to the point wherever it was and then and then Doree like while Kyle's talking Doree just goes like
• 1:15:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: like saying that her mouth is not opening.
• 1:15:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's so childish, but so good.
• 1:15:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So good.
• 1:15:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: They have their moments.
• 1:15:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want to just before we move on, I want to say I really want Kyle to read and also let's bring in Lisa Vanderpompe here.
• 1:15:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: To interrogate, they're like frequent and repeat intense conflicts with women.
• 1:15:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: They once described as best friends and sisters.
• 1:15:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just like, especially Kyle, like let's unpack
• 1:15:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: that.
• 1:15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's like do some reading of tweets that lesbians occasionally do about they're coming out or just people who like girls or even just people who don't like men necessarily.
• 1:16:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like let's all just like examine our relationships to the women in our lives and the intensity of these feelings that we seem to have nowhere to put.
• 1:16:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the last thing I want to say for all of them.
• 1:16:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:16:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: The last thing that I want to mention before we end is Rachel Zoe has this, I guess I like have to say Rachel Zoe.
• 1:16:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's Rachel Zoe, like she's Rachel Zoe.
• 1:16:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Rachel Zoe has this really like emotional reaction.
• 1:16:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: She kind of realizes that like what Kyle's sort of asking
• 1:16:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: She can't imagine somebody doing that to her because she has like benefited so much from having the space to open up about her divorce and to unload and I found it to be really interesting both like coming from her because she we've seen her talk about her divorce sort of in her solo scenes and some in the group, but like this was like sort of next level in terms of again as we sort of started this conversation of like her and her willingness to like.
• 1:16:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: be a housewife and go there.
• 1:17:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but also it's like a kind of was curious about Rachel if she was ever going to sort of take a stand in one way or the other.
• 1:17:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this way, I think she's really formally sort of aligning herself with to read despite, you know, she's about she's about to go to the hamstrings with Kyle and to read.
• 1:17:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But
• 1:17:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's sort of this, she's sort of also putting a stake in the ground in terms of, no, I'm sort of on the street side of the aisle when it comes to this issue, you know?
• 1:17:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it sets up like, I hate that we watch so much housewives and we're always like strategizing like it's before.
• 1:17:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it sets up an interesting more dynamic down the, yeah, down the way where we know that Rachel's like take away Bestie from this season is Erica, that she's closest to Erica, they like are in the actor show together, they're like a great dynamic.
• 1:17:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Erica we see has a falling out with Doreet aligned with Kyle and so I'm interested to see if it becomes like Rachel in the middle of Erica and Doreet in future seasons or at the reunion or later on like I'm interested to see where Rachel goes from here because she clearly gets a long with Erica but she's on Doreet's side about this.
• 1:18:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like that we have those kinds of things like staring in the
• 1:18:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: to the surface.
• 1:18:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like the show has a lot more to go, like a lot more places to go.
• 1:18:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: This season in the dynamics, like we haven't really seen their fully-formed relationships yet.
• 1:18:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm, I'm interested to see also where Bose comes into play.
• 1:18:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:18:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk much about her, but I don't know.
• 1:18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I find her to be kind of passive this season.
• 1:18:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she's sort of the Greek chorus role this year in a way that's like,
• 1:18:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it's working for her, but it's not like memorable for me.
• 1:18:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I couldn't remember really where she came at this episode with besides her IVF journey.
• 1:18:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I agree about the Rachel Zopara.
• 1:18:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's somewhat more interesting when it's less defined teams, quote unquote, and more kind of interconnected dynamics.
• 1:18:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And with those, I agree it's like,
• 1:18:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Both her and Rachel are sort of serving that same role when it comes to their professionals of like being that Greek chorus being the voice the people, but it's much more memorable to me when Rachel's though does it?
• 1:18:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I remember her moments a little more.
• 1:19:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I did like both sort of gathering up Amanda and being like, what do you think to sit?
• 1:19:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's not the human experience of like being able to control how cool.
• 1:19:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I loved that.
• 1:19:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was the most memorable thing that yeah, that's been her best moment of the season so far for me.
• 1:19:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I agree, I think with those,
• 1:19:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: almost maybe in the way that I expected from Rachel, she feels a little bit more watching it all happen versus like in it.
• 1:19:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, really like I was thinking about this the other day, but like it's interesting the way that bows comments on things because like listen.
• 1:19:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think Erica, they forced her hand with a lot of the stuff about her personal life, like the press forced her hand and she had to divert myself.
• 1:19:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:19:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that Doreet was in a similar position where she was very controlled until she couldn't be anymore and then like her hand got forced.
• 1:19:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think with like satin, like satin has been so open about like some really humiliating things that have happened
• 1:20:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: to begin with and laying that all out.
• 1:20:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm just thinking like, besides this IVF thing, I really, we don't know much about both.
• 1:20:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we don't know much about like what she struggles with.
• 1:20:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: We don't really know much about like her early life, her family dynamics, or like, we kind of see stuff with her assistant and her daughter.
• 1:20:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, very like surface level, right?
• 1:20:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, look what a good mom I'm being.
• 1:20:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just interested to see if there's going to be something that
• 1:20:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: forces her hand or if she just naturally opens up and is being more guarded because I do think she came on this show with an agenda right like she does herself as a personality that's not a bad thing inherently but that agenda hasn't cracked yet and it hasn't like wavered and so I just with her I'm like struggling to find anything to grab onto you know that like
• 1:20:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm with you.
• 1:20:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really want to say it because I think with both is kind of hard to articulate.
• 1:20:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes how I feel about her presence on the show because I do, like I think my instinct is to like her and to know I'm trying to refreshing.
• 1:20:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's very funny in the confessionals.
• 1:20:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Very much so.
• 1:20:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's good at being on TV.
• 1:21:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it's savvy of her to have gotten probably through two seasons of a real house lives franchise and not really in her sense.
• 1:21:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:21:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I do think that that sort of agenda
• 1:21:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not really wanted to go deep probably and get into the mock and be as complicated a figure that's not that can't hold up for that long on housewives and so whether that's the other women recognizing that and digging like on Salt Lake City or like something else happening I don't know but that that can't sustain itself for that long as a new housewife it just can't.
• 1:21:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: we've seen it happen so many times where, you know, the person who kind of stands behind the person who's at the center of it, like Doree, eventually Doree's problems go away or she figures it all out and what happens next is then people are looking to the person right beside her and it's usually some variation of you weren't a good enough friend to me or you
• 1:21:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Screwed me over, you betrayed me in some way.
• 1:22:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I hope it doesn't go that route because it feels so predictable, but it does feel like maybe that's where it ends.
• 1:22:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I don't think her injury, dynamic lasts forever.
• 1:22:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think it's a field deep enough.
• 1:22:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't feel deep enough.
• 1:22:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, it feels so well-convenient.
• 1:22:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like it, but it doesn't feel... it doesn't feel deep.
• 1:22:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, Tony, I appreciate you saying a little over our, oh, I'm sorry.
• 1:22:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not some.
• 1:22:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, we needed to get through these, these shows and it's, there's a lot, there.
• 1:22:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so you cover Bravo a lot for Paper Magazine.
• 1:22:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, what have you been writing about recently?
• 1:22:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know you did the, um,
• 1:22:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: You did the Angie Kay here.
• 1:22:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: He did.
• 1:22:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so instantly.
• 1:22:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I do a lot of that kind of stuff.
• 1:22:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have some fun stuff in the works like that.
• 1:22:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have a column that runs on paper every Friday, called So Sheek, Very Sheek, which is a play on Doreats.
• 1:22:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when you're watching.
• 1:22:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: blog.
• 1:22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't use that exact one for copyright reasons, but yeah, it's an exploration of Bravo fashion.
• 1:22:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's like one, I think I've been doing that for like three years now, which is fun because it like it allows me to like use the fashion as a way to express my opinions on these shows, but really looking at the way these people put themselves together, the stories closed tell,
• 1:23:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: whether it's like they don't have any money or they're putting too much money into it or like they're kind of being a person.
• 1:23:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm a huge fan of Angie K despite the kind of rough season that she had this last time.
• 1:23:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did the, you know, big photo shoot with her in the hair.
• 1:23:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was inspired by the books in my grandmother's salon growing up all the hair books and ads.
• 1:23:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So,
• 1:23:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: we had a lot of fun with that and I got to say like it was it was an affirming experience just to see someone who was exactly how they appear on television in my work with them.
• 1:23:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: You need so many housewives and you're like oh like this character you're playing isn't real but like I've had a lot of experiences like with angi or I mean everyone who meets Luan will say the same thing like yes exactly what you get on TV is how they are in real life and so it was fun it's I do a lot of
• 1:23:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
• 1:23:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll go check out Jones writing, follow her on Twitter, great commentary there as well.
• 1:24:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's where I first found your work.
• 1:24:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And anything else you want to plug before we start off here?
• 1:24:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also host a podcast that comes out once a week that we kind of use Bravo to talk about politics.
• 1:24:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like my way to engage with politics through ones.
• 1:24:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think doesn't get discussed often, like through Pop Cold Journal Bravo.
• 1:24:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's called eating for free.
• 1:24:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to go listen to that, I come out every week.
• 1:24:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that.
• 1:24:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, go go somewhere else.
• 1:24:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I hope it keeps going strong.
• 1:24:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Me too.
• 1:24:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Me too.
• 1:24:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Don't thank you so much.
• 1:24:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad we were able to do this and I will definitely do it again.
• 1:24:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is amazing.
• 1:24:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: This was the last awesome.
• 1:24:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much.
• 1:24:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bye
• 1:24:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to the show.
• 1:24:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Subscribe to Gabbin with Gabbin on any podcast platform closely in the episode.
• 1:24:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Subscribe to Gabbin with Gabbin with Gabbin on YouTube to watch full and third experiences.
• 1:24:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'd also love your support with the five star review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
• 1:24:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can follow me at Gips and No Mom on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok and keep up with all things Gabbin with Gabbin with Gabbin on Instagram and TikTok.
• 1:25:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gathering with Gabe is an independent podcast hosted by me, Gipsy Jones.
• 1:25:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's produced by myself and Riley Dabs.
• 1:25:06
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• 1:25:11
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• 1:25:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you again for your support and see you next time.