Latest / Vox Novus with Victor Fuhrman / Dr. Frieda Birnbaum - Life Begins at 60

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Dr. Frieda Birnbaum - Life Begins at 60 · Vox Novus with Victor Fuhrman

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Vox Novus, the New Voice, Vox Novus, the New Dimension. Vox
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Novus thought and movement leaders who will share from their experience and offer tools to
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help us navigate our rapidly changing world. My name is Victor Furman. Welcome
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to Vox Novus, the New Voice. Having just come through the end of
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year holidays, many find this time challenging, especially when families engender codependency.
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How may we heal and transcend these difficult relationships and find renewed joy and love.
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My guest this week on Box Novus, Doctor FRIEDA. Bernbaum, says
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this may be achieved with healthy boundaries. Doctor Freda is a research psychologist and
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psychoanalytic therapist in Saddle River, New Jersey, and the award winning author of
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Life Begins at Sixty, A New View of Motherhood, Marriage and Reinventing Ourselves.
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An expert on topics such as family dynamics, parenthood, relationships, addiction,
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anxiety, and depression, Doctor Freda is a seasoned media personality and commentator
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who was adept at discerning the psychological underpinnings of current issues. Notably, Doctor
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Freda is the oldest woman in America to give birth to twins the mother of
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five. Her youngest sons were born when she was sixty, lending her a
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unique perspective on issues related to parenting and the empowerment of women at any age.
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Her website is Doctorfrida dot com, and she joins me this week to
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share her healing wisdom and experience. Please join me in welcome me to Vox
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Dovis, Doctor Frieda Burnbaum. Welcome, doctor Freda, my pleasure. Thank
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you so much for having me, and thank you for joining us and sharing
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this wonderful and very valuable information with our listeners today. So please share with
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our listeners your early path and how it led to your calling as a research
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psychologist and psychoanalytic therapist. Interesting question. I had many different callings, but
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one time get ready for this answer. One time I was in the supermarket,
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believe it or not, with my two little kids, and I saw
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a woman in front of me with her two little kids, and I said
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to myself, how come she's so contented and I'm not what's wrong with me?
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So I decided to do research, and I found out that a housewife,
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which I was at the time, is the way she relates in her
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personal life and in public when she becomes a professional or someone with a higher
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status career, that it's equal. There's shared values and financial decisions and social
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decisions across the board, and I always felt something was missing. My mother
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was a stay at home mother, and she said that she could have been
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a businesswoman, and so I did research on It took me five years to
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get here to figure out what I wanted, but I did receive my PhD
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with that, and so I saw that my calling was to do both to
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be someone at home for my children and then to go and have a career.
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Although I was accepted to Columbia for my graduate work in psychology, I
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did quit when my family needed me and my husband was not able to give
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them. I gave them so a little bit. That's my path. I
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forgot your question, but my path. Yeah, what were you thinking about
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as a child, there were a young young adult growing up rescuing. I
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rescued my parents who were Holocaust survivors. I was their parents. I didn't
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they did speak English, and I took off from school and I saw people
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making fun of them and I stood up for them. And I was very
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involved with discrimination. As I got older, I was on a radio show
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calls that with el Colin about discrimination had three million viewers listeners. Uh.
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And so that was always my path about justice, about having a certain type
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of attitude and informative view of other people, especially racial situations where young black
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males are targeted and discriminated upon. And so we had people on that were
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extremely successful politicians, professionals and wonderful people that were black males for the media
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to know that that's not being looked at enough. So that was my childhood
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experience. I grew up in a family where my father, I worked as
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a tailor, came from Europe, and people thought I was an only child.
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But I went out and I worked. I bought my own clothing,
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and so I was very contented. But we didn't have much. And I
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used to work and bring money home to my mother because when I bought her
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made her happier than what I bought myself. So I really enjoyed that.
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I enjoyed seeing that I was always very happy and pops and had pretty much
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everything. But you know, I think the one ingredient when you look at
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everything when your childhood experience is love. I mean, it's very simple.
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It's not the things you can buy, but it's the feeling that you get
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from another person that really makes you who you are, that forms you.
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Your frontal cortex as a young child, well not so young, a teenagers
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developing more and stops developing more in your early twenties, and so that's really
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sort of geared on you. How your parents see you is the world around
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you. So my parents thought a lot of me, and I was very
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fortunate that I had that, and that was a richness that I've always carried
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with me. To see that I can do it, I didn't have to
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find out from anybody else, so I made my decisions. Basically, I
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received my degree as a stay at home mom with having my New York University
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syllabus in front of me. We took research to statistics and everything I was
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supposed to do, and I did both. And then I developed a full
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time practice that I was happy with, but then it was too much.
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I just didn't have any time at all, so I cut back on that
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and I when I hadn't had kids, and then I went into the media,
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which I really that was the love I had all the time. My
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mother said, it's like being a prostitute. I come from an orthodox family.
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Believe it or not, I married somebody in my religion, but very
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different the way we were brought up. So I didn't want to upset my
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parents. I did what made them happy. Got married. By the time
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I turned twenty two, everyone wanted to know why I didn't have children yet
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I was putting my husband through law school. See, that was the you
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know, it's interesting we're talking codependency function in families, but it's discussing I'm
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really it sounds as I'm talking to you about me. That's me because I
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did all these things codependency on other people, making sure that they were okay.
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And when I was dating, I had you know, all these women
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say, oh I could have had so and so or so. What what
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the truth is? Yes, and but I picked my husband mainly because he
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needed me. That's what I was really drawn to. Somebody that could help
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and make a difference with the other guys already had it all going. There
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was no challenge because I was told it was not who I was going to
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be, but who I was going to marry. And that was the message
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I always had. So because I'd picked somebody who needed help, I was
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able to fix him instead of fixing myself. That wasn't in the cards.
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And we're going to be talking more about codependency a little bit later on.
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Let's talk about your first book. It was called What Price Power, an
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in depth study of the professional woman in a relationship. What inspired that book?
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I think we already know based on what you shared. What do you
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share with your readers in that book? I share with my readers that first
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you have to have a sense of everything that you are, and then when
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you do that, everything else falls into place. You have the ability to
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share and help and make a difference with yourself more than anybody, and then
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that affects everyone else. But there are people when women do have high status
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careers that are intimidated by it. Not only women, men as well,
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and so sometimes you don't have that kind of repport with these people. I
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always had a stigma with what I did. I went back to school and
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my children were small, and at that time, you were bad mother.
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And how many women go into psychology It was more of a male based on
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profession. So you know, there was always that, but look today it's
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like what else is no everybody's doing it, So you have to be able
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to challenge other people's feelings about you and cross over it. And for me
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that was difficult because my whole life was, you know, making other people
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feel better. But once I did that, the little time I spent it
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just skyrockets, skyrocketed me wherever it was that I want to go. Yes,
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and I lost a lot of friends along the way. And you know,
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the more you do, the more people will be critical of you.
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Anyway, So what's the difference. Yeah, you have the special and wonderful
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distinction of having given birth to twins at the age of sixty. What was
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this like? How did you change your life and that of your family?
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Well, it didn't really change my life. I think having twins was wonderful
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the world. I really was affected by this. I had calls from all
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over the world and I was on sixty Minutes. I was on all the
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shows. They were there in my room when I woke up in the morning,
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facing me, and they had a special switchboard for me, and I
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went underneath as a special tunnel. Believe it or not, in these hospitals
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so people don't see you. So I had a guard at the Doornam think
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what the hell did I just do? Really? That was so unique.
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But I guess people fail, you know. I mean, I think the
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number six sort of hit a nerve with the world around me. If it
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was five something, it wouldn't have been as profound. But I did start
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much earlier. It's not that I waited to have children when I was sixty.
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It just so happened. I was turning sixty, and the elephant in
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the room is really my husband. Nobody asks him why he did it,
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and guess what it was his idea. So so as you know, children
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and women are always connected to this. And I did say I'm too old,
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I'm not going to do it. And I remember I went into the
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to have a scan to see the babies, and the doctor said to me
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just sort of took piece of me. Okay, all right, well let's
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take a look now, Like I was really mental and the crazy, so
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let's take a look and see what we see. And so when he came
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back and said that there were actually two kids and two babies in there,
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he was like taken aback. Also, but I don't I didn't look,
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I didn't feel and there's longevity, and as a professional I can provide,
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so it made sense to me. The only difference was that I was not
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going to tell the truth about my age. I was going to say I'm
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ten years younger. But then of course, duh. They came in in
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the hospital and said would you like to tell other women about this? And
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I said, you know what, who am I to be so selfish and
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you know, so narrow minded? Who cares about me? Maybe I can
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help other women in a way I did by letting other women know that you're
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not old at sixty and you can't do things, not have a baby,
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but have new relationships, change the course of your events in your life.
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So I had women from Dubai, from Africa, I mean, you name
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it contacting me, and some even wanting children and not telling anybody how old
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they were. And that's maybe the better way to go too, because people
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will define you in a certain way, or they may be critical of you
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in a certain way. But nobody really has asked me if I was the
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grandmother. The boys are now sixteen and no one says your grandma. They
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say your mother, so they don't see feel and women in school are older
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forties, I see fifties, and you don't see twenty year olds so much.
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But the turning point for me with having these twins was that I thought
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I was miscarrying. I went to the doctor and he put this probe on
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my stomach and I said, it's very painful. And that night I started
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miscarrying and he told me to come in and I didn't and dilay it on
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the couch. For three days, I didn't go up the steps. And
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then when I found out to see if I was pregnant or not with another
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doctor, he said, I see one foot and I see another one.
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I said another what, another arm? Another foot? He said, no,
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another baby, and I said what. I didn't even know I was
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pregnant anymore. And so like I was, everyone there in that you know,
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facility was going crazy. The nurses were looking at the monitor and everyone
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was congratulating me. And so it was like a turn of events in my
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life and so my concentration. That's when I knew I wanted these kids really
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and to hold on to them, and how fortunate I was in my pregnancy
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and my birth was uneventful fortunately, and everything was, everything was great.
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I mean, Oprah called me to come on her show and Donald Trump.
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At the time, it was in May, one of her last shows changed
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his mind and decided to come on. So he was supposed to come on
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and he said no, then he said yes, so but the real real
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thing, I real reason I would have come on is just to show that
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men having children later and women living longer was something that needs to be looked
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at. I mean, what's his name, Rod Stewart. I was on
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a show with me, and he was on a show because of a different
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reason, and I was on the show because of twins. Yet we were
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the same age and we both had a child, we both had children at
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that age you know later on actually he was even older I think at one
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point. But so my experience has been negative in the beginning and positive.
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Uh. The mailman came and said, I just saw a balloon at your
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on your mailbox. Is not your daughter? Your daughter had children? I
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said no, I did. Just now what a minute for a second,
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I felt you said I did. I said yeah, I said, I
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said I did, And he said what? And then you know, months
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later he says his grandmother had children later, and people, uh, people
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that were from a different generation had used to have children older. So things
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come out when people feel all uh more comfortable anything new any change in history
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in vitro. When it first came out, I forgot who the person was.
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People were in shock, they were in awe, are you kidding?
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Now they have something else. It's called nuclear nuclear transfer, which takes I'm
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sure most of your listeners don't know about this. They take the the egg
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so, in other words, your genetics and puts put it into the other
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DNA of a younger women women, so you can have your own child without
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miscarrying. So that's something new, and anything new is questioned by religion,
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by ethnics, by ethics, I mean, but that's the way it goes.
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We have to keep as you said before, we went on reinventing yourself,
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and we continue to see women and men in their fifties maybe sixties,
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you know, having families and starting all over again in many ways. And
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this inspired your second book, The award winning Life Begins at Sixty, a
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new view on motherhood, marriage, and reinventing ourselves. This was not just
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about having children at sixty, as you share, but the important trend of
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finding new purpose in our lives when previous generations were contemplating retirement. What were
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some of the concepts you shared with readers in Life Begins at sixty that life
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has changed. Really we're looking at a new view of what it means to
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be actually any age, but people feel fear getting older, So sixty I
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was asked wedding to just write life begins at any age. No. I
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was trying to make point that you should celebrate and look forward to And I
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was more excited putting the twins aside that they were my blessing. They're wonderful
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boys about life than ever. I had more energy, I had more enthusiasm,
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I had more interest and going ahead and making some kind of difference.
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I was more confident and I was not physically falling apart yet either, to
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my surprise. So I wanted people to know that they can look forward to
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the future and not feel that they have limitations to where they are. This
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is it, and that it's over, not at all to be able to
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celebrate the future. Are you seeing this reinventing and not retiring as a trend?
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And you what would you offer to those who are contemplating new careers past
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the age of sixty. It's a wonderful thing. You have an opportunity to
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do things. Let's say when you had to pay the mortgage, or bring
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your children up and raise your children, so you can do things that you
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weren't able to do before that you were always interested in the arts or whatever
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that is, or go back to school and start to reinvent yourself. So
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today people are not retiring from life anymore. They're going on trips, they're
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going water rafting, they're going on all kinds of You're having all kinds of
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experiences today, and so working is one of them. And not only that.
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Research has shown that men who retire don't do as well health wise.
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So yes, maybe retire for a couple of months. But to have something
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you can do, something as part time, something as a consult that you
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enjoyed doing, whatever that is that you have. As we said before,
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a purpose to get up in the morning is important. Absolutely, as I
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shared with you before we began the interview, and something that I think will
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inspire our listeners. In addition to your amazing and wonderful story, my wife,
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Lorie Sue, chose to pursue a master's degree in public history at the
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age of sixty five two years ago, and she'll earn that degree this spring
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and she'll apply it to documenting her subject, the feminine Divine. I had
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a forty two year career in the welding, equipment and compressed gas industry that
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ended in twenty twenty at the age of sixty seven, when the company that
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I was working for recommended early retirement with the advent of COVID not worrying,
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wanting to worry about me meeting people face to face and possibly getting sick.
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I came out of that premature retirement in January of twenty twenty two at the
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age of sixty nine to work for a friend of mine as a project manager
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on a robotic welding system acquisition, and continue to work for him as I
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approached my seventy first birthday. This is really what it's about for us,
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isn't it? You know? And my story And I received my PhD when
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I was forty six, but I always had that story, and I was
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always told it's too late, and why are you bothering? Why don't you
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go to Florida? And I'm thinking I would be the most oppressed person in
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the world. Are you kidding me? What do you do there? But
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so I always looked at myself in a way when I felt that I was
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being pushed away, I pushed back. So I remember when I was forty,
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I was in a drugstore and it's a cup said over the hill,
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forty and over the hill, And that's when I got my PhD. When
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I was thirty five, I was accepted to Columbia, and I was called
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middle aged. At that time, believe it or not, thirty five was
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considered middle aged, and sixty I was called the old woman. And I
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had twins and fifty by the way, I had a child also. So
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it was always something that I was told different and then I went ahead and
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did something else. So every time that happens, it's a good opportunity to
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sort of reassess where are you really and what I and forget about all the
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voices because those voices are coming from their own selves. You know, at
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the end of the day, everybody goes in and closes the door and has
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to live with themselves. But when you have those obstacles, that's the best
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time to challenge those obstacles and fulfill yourself in some way. And the more
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you do, as I said before, people get uncomfortable because they're really judging
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where they are in their life has nothing to do with you. It's almost
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saying I couldn't do it, why should you? And who are you?
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Who do you think you are somebody special? Especially women. I mean men
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will do it and they'll say, yeah, they're successful. Women will do
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it and they'll say they're selfish. As so there are different languages used for
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the difference. Well, we only have well we have more than two sexes
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today. I don't know what we have, but usually it applies to male
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female, where women I thought of as aggressive and men as assertive and you
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know family men who have a family in business, and so it's still a
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divide of the sexes, that's true. But when you have the opportunity to
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make your own choices as far as what is right and not what is right
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for everyone else, and not what will everyone think? My mother used to
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think about the neighbors. She was as orthodox Jewish lady. What will they
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say? What will they think? We lived for the neighbors? And did
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the neighbors really care? No? If anything, they respected her less because
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she was looking to them. And one thing I learned was a harsh lesson
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if you take care of yourself, people respect you more. And that I
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was never told especially as a young child, as a girl. No,
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you have to do it, you have to do the right thing. But
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yet men, young males were taught, no, go outside and seek the
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world, and that's your job. So there's a confusion. And with the
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women's revolution what was going on, there was a confusion. Had nothing to
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do with the men, had nothing to do with their husbands or their boyfriends
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or anybody. It had to do it the way they were brought up.
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So men really get a bad deal on this. And it's the way the
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boys and girls are brought up. Now it's less so the case is now,
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but still we still have that in us to judge accordingly to how compared
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to how we were brought up. I mean, even my mother said to
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me once, I couldn't do it? Why should you thinking? Are you
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kidding me? Don't you put to your kids to do better than you?
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That was not her attitude. Uh uh, different attitude. My guest is
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doctor Frida Burnbaund. Doctor Freda, please tell our listeners where they can get
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your books and find out more about you. All right, my books saw
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you could get at Amazon. You can get Barnes and Noble, those two
26:37
places. I have a podcast, The Doctor d O c t O R
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fri I E d A show website Doctor d R FRII E d a dot
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com. And I'm on shows and around wherever I go, you may hear
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of me, you may hear me. I have been a speaker, an
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award winning speaker, talking about us success, talking about defying the odds.
27:07
And that's about as much as you probably want to know about me. And
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we're going to find out more about your work with codependency and family issues when
27:17
we come back. I'll be back after these words on the Old Times Radio
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network Free your Mind with Home Times Radio I own FM. Ome Times Magazine
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is one of the leading online content providers of positivity, wellness, and personal
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empowerment. A philanthropic organization, their net proceeds are funneled to support worldwide charity
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initiatives via Humanity Healing International. Through their commitment to creating community and providing conscious
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content, they aspire to uplift humanity on a global scale. Home Times co
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creating a more conscious lifestyle. Back on Fox Novus, my guest this week
28:04
is doctor Freda Burnbaum. Doctor Freda, We've just come through the twenty twenty
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three holiday season, a period of time that is joyous for many families,
28:15
but also challenging for many families. Why are the holidays so stressful for many
28:21
families? When you get together with your family, they're part of your history
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and you have memories of how you were brought up, and a lot of
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that has to do with the fear factor of feeling guilty that if they're not
28:37
doing well, is there something that you can do for them? So you
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often sacrifice your own needs to make sure that what's going on with them has
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nothing to do with your negligence in any way. That's not a good thing,
28:51
but sometimes that does happen. Why is family drama more difficult to handle
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during the holidays. During the holidays, they often don't see your family as
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much, and you prepare for it. It's expensive, you don't you're not
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working time involved, and let's face it, you know, when family dynamics
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occur, there are all kinds of different types of personalities that you have to
29:18
turn yourself on and off for and know how to manipulate your way through that.
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And people are often seeing you in ways that they don't know. And
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sometimes, if let's say you're single, have you met anybody at a house,
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your job, whatever it is. They can often pull triggers when you're
29:37
not emotionally prepared. It's easier when you're talking to a coworker and you have
29:41
to be appropriate. Often with your family, you're off guard, you let
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go, you feel supported, but watch up because those emotions are even stronger
29:53
because these are the people you trust. And so when you're trusting someone and
29:57
you want to do every thing for them, you can have big gaslight.
30:03
They can gaslight you, which means they could give you guilt trips, they
30:07
could even be abusive, or somebody's even violent with you. Do you have
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to be very careful how you express your emotions and how you take care of
30:18
yourself in these situations. Tell us a little bit more about gaslighting. That's
30:23
a term that's come around in the last few years. There was a movie
30:26
called Gaslight, which I think this was predicated upon. Yes, so this
30:30
is about. The movie was about a man who stole. He would take
30:36
a gas light up to the attic, believe it or not, and he
30:40
would take jewelry and things from his wife when she didn't know about it.
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I think it was Alfred Hitchok who produced it. In the beginning actually a
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play and that they made it into a movie. So gaslight is making somebody
30:53
feel guilty as somebody who's often a narcissist and controls you. People say you're
31:00
not acting yourself. They keep you away from your family and friends, and
31:07
they may even be having affairs while you're married to them. But one big
31:12
thing is that they deny any wrongdoing and they won't go to therapy because you
31:18
know therapy will prove them wrong and they're control freaks, so why would they
31:22
want to go to therapy. So it's very difficult to make changes. The
31:27
best thing you can do is just run as fast as you can, actually,
31:30
because that's the only thing that's going to happen that's going to change your
31:34
life, because you're not going to change their life. So anybody who's listening
31:38
to this, if you're trapped, because that's really what it is with someone
31:44
like that, a narcissist. Unless you want to be dealt with the way
31:49
you are, unless you want things status quo, the only thing to do
31:53
is leave. Absolutely. Getting back to the holidays, what are some suggestions
31:59
you might offer to reduce future holidays stress and make them more enjoyable. You
32:07
want to be able to have a situation that is comfortable for you. So
32:14
if you don't get along with someone and they're going to be in the group,
32:19
you can be cordial, but you don't have to sit down and have
32:22
a discussion with them. You know who's going to be there, you know
32:25
who you want to talk to. And by the way, it's not a
32:28
bad idea to make future plans with those people, so you can really have
32:32
more of a connection. And then the other people you have to have a
32:36
superficial connection in order to make yourself comfortable during the holidays, but you don't
32:44
have to overspend. You don't have to have a seasonal hookup to make yourself
32:51
comfortable, because often that leads to being trapped in the wrong relationships and sometimes
32:57
marriages and sometimes divorce. So people often believe it or not go to these
33:05
issues, to these heights of despair. I guess to make these kind of
33:08
changes so they can feel comfortable. So you don't have to go to that
33:14
kind of extreme, but do things in a way that you can afford what
33:19
it is and that you don't feel you're putting yourself out too much, and
33:22
just relax, enjoy the moments. Pick people that you do want to talk
33:28
to. Pick topics are not politics or religion that you do enjoy talking about,
33:35
so you have a positive experience. And then of course later you can
33:38
say, let's make an appointment, we'll get together, and you get together
33:43
with the right people and make yourself comfortable. Even with food. People overeat
33:49
because they're nervous, they don't have what it is to say to anybody,
33:53
and then they spend the rest of the year trying to lose that weight.
33:57
So don't do that to yourself either. And of course you can always leave,
34:02
give yourself time, and you could always and I hate to say this,
34:07
make an excuse and say I'm sorry, but I have other commitments.
34:12
They don't have to know that it's watching TV on Netflix or something and just
34:15
leave and it's Those are the ways to protect yourself on the holidays because everybody
34:22
there's so many stressors going on, financially, emotionally, physically. What to
34:29
wear. I always say, you know, you always have yourself in your
34:30
closet. You don't have to go out there and get anything, and so
34:35
prevent all that. Keep it simple. It's only two days. You know,
34:39
it's not well in the Northeast. Here it's still going on. We
34:44
still have the Christmas trees and the decorations into the spring, but it really
34:49
is only two days. And so if there's a divorce, you make sure
34:52
you share the children. If there's somebody who's not feeling well, you make
34:57
sure that you a tense I'm kind of connection physically or zoom or FaceTime or
35:06
whatever that is to be there for that person. You also cover all bases
35:10
with the people you love and care about, because that's really what it's all
35:15
about. As an interfaith minister, I've officiated many funerals and have witnessed the
35:21
guilt and pain that are often connected with unhealed family traumas and forgiveness not expressed
35:28
or tendered before the person passes. What advice would you offer to those who
35:31
perceive hurt either received from or imposed upon another family member? Yet over it,
35:39
life is too short. You'll always be sorry, and you'll never be
35:44
sorry if you don't go ahead and make amends with that person. It doesn't
35:50
matter who's right or wrong, really it doesn't, And after why you even
35:52
forget what happened. It's the effect that counts. Life is about feelings.
35:58
If you feel better then that's what's important. Otherwise you're always on guard.
36:04
There's always something heavy weighing on you. And who wants to go around in
36:07
their life like that. So cherish the moments while that person is still alive
36:13
that you can get it. And you'll never have regrets when you give too
36:15
much love. As far as not giving enough love, that's something you'll always
36:22
look back and never say you're sorry. And people all often live with regret
36:28
and that's the worst way to live. And as we say, tomorrow is
36:31
never guaranteed. Tell someone you love them today. Tell someone you forgive them
36:37
today. If you feel that you've hurt them, ask for their forgiveness today.
36:40
Do it today, because tomorrow does not come around. There what about
36:45
it? And especially if you have teenagers. I'm always wrong, So I'm
36:49
always saying I never know what I'm talking about. You know, the other
36:53
day I had somebody to come in as a patient and my son says,
36:57
why are you going to her? She doesn't know what she's saying. So
37:00
you know, I know that his brain is theft developed or something, you
37:05
know, And so if I tell him off, you know what's going to
37:07
happen. So he's clueless. So you know, I get along and we
37:14
hugged and we kiss and I love you and everything and everything is washed,
37:17
cleansed till the next day and then again. So yes, you always have
37:22
to look away, start the day again. Enjoy the other person for who
37:28
and what they are, and don't try to make any change anybody. That's
37:31
the worst thing we can do in a relationship with coworkers, with anybody.
37:38
Don't try to change the way a person behaves. My husband and I were
37:44
walking out on the store and this lady slammed the door in our face or
37:49
something, and he was furious and he was going to tell her off,
37:52
And I said, why who cares? You don't know who she is.
37:54
You don't know what she went through. Maybe her husband slammed the door in
37:58
her You know what, are you going to change somebody in one second?
38:01
No, leave it alone, make amends, get along with the smallest situation
38:07
or the biggest situation, because I can guarantee you when you feel right,
38:13
that's when you're doing the right thing. As an expert on family dynamics,
38:17
you've shared that many families deal with code dependency. Please first share with us
38:23
the meaning of codependency when you don't have any boundaries and you have a fear
38:30
of saying no to family members, even if it means sacrificing your own needs.
38:37
That's what codependency is really all about. It's about difficulty expressing emotions.
38:45
And also, as I said, you know, people feel responsible for other
38:50
people's viewpoints or problems, and that's what becomes codependency in the relationships. How
39:00
may we learn to set healthy boundaries? Well, you know, when you
39:05
feel that you have to prioritize them and they will suffer and it's going to
39:13
be your fault that if you leave, then you know already that you're overly
39:22
protective of their needs at the expense of yourself. So the boundaries have to
39:30
be set when you're prioritizing yourself and otherwise you're going to have that lack of
39:37
self esteem, chronic anxiety and people pleasing. So that's when you know,
39:45
when you know you're getting anxious, when you know you're getting depressed, the
39:51
boundaries have to start because it's really affecting you. And the only way to
39:54
set the boundaries is to disconnect, and they're going to be living and they're
40:00
going to feel okay. It's just that you are helping them to being victims,
40:06
so you're playing the card as well. You have to take away your
40:10
behavior in order to let them go and not help them to have these codependencies
40:19
issues. So don't have this fear that something horrible is going to happen to
40:22
the people around you if you don't participate in this type of dysfunction. On
40:29
the contrary, they will learn to do things on their own. And also,
40:35
these people don't like you either because you're too empowered compared to them,
40:39
so they'll be jealous of you. They'll be competitive of you. Don't think
40:44
they're going to like you more. How dare you have so much going and
40:46
they have nothing? So the best thing to do is let them see that
40:51
they have a lot going themselves without you. You can do them a favor
40:54
by letting go. As a child my dad, I never felt loved by
41:01
my father until he became sick when I was eight years old and I became
41:06
part of his caretaking team with my mother, and for the first time,
41:09
while taking care of my father, I felt that he loved me, and
41:14
this wired in my eight and nine year old mind that if you take care
41:16
of others, you will be loved. And it actually set a very nasty
41:21
pattern through my life, which I had to remedy in my fifties because I
41:25
came to the point where it was affecting my health by chasing around taking care
41:30
of everyone else's issues and helping everyone else and not taking care of myself.
41:34
That's something that happens that we get wired in childhood. That's interesting because I
41:38
have the same story. But my father had a gollbladder operation and I was
41:44
very popular, and I was a teenager, and I was looking outside the
41:46
window and I saw this red convertible with this good looking guy driving it.
41:51
And I said to God, I said, I don't care if I'm with
41:53
this guy. I don't care about cars, I don't care about good looking
41:58
guys. I don't care about being popular. Just make sure that my father
42:01
will be okay. And that was the turning point in my life with my
42:07
father. And after that, I was completely devoted to everybody at home.
42:12
And I don't think that was a good thing. I really don't think that
42:15
that turning point was good for me, because I became something for someone else,
42:21
not for who I was. So it's important to know that the minute
42:27
you lose your sense of self. That's when you lose direction, and you
42:32
lose your own purpose, and you lose your own future. And you keep
42:37
replicating that by the way. You do that with your own family, with
42:40
the people around you, and then you make them that way as well.
42:45
So the change chains of generations keep going unless they're broken. So you have
42:52
to be able to be strong enough to say, hey, wait a minute,
42:55
this made me happy. I can't make him happy or her happy.
43:01
I don't know exactly what it is they need. They have to do that
43:06
for themselves. May My mother cried all the time to me, this isn't
43:09
good, and this isn't good, and what can I do? And I'm
43:13
lonely. She had my father on bored I was running, running, running.
43:16
It didn't really make a difference because she had to do it for herself.
43:20
So you have to step back in life and say, you know what,
43:23
this is what I'm doing. But the minute you have to sacrifice this
43:29
essence of who you are, both people are losing out. You're not being
43:34
respected and you're not respecting yourself, and that circle keeps going and you wonder
43:39
what happened to your life, And then the years go by. So it's
43:43
not how many years, it's what you do with the years that count.
43:45
You can stop right now, doesn't matter what age you are and say,
43:51
okay, let all the noise in the background disappear. Just let my own
43:57
noise, and let's focus. And what would I do if I were taking
44:00
care of me? What would I tell myself that I need? Who am
44:06
I? And what do I have? And what qualities do I have that
44:09
I need to fulfill? It's not being selfish, it's actually being selfless because
44:15
you're going ahead and taking power absolutely. My guest is doctor fred To Burnbaum.
44:22
We'll be back with more after these words. On the Own Times Radio
44:25
Network. Humanity Healing International is a small nonprofit with a big dream. Since
44:31
two thousand and seven, HHI has been working tirelessly to bring help to communities
44:37
with little or no over Our projects are not broad mandates, nor are they
44:43
overnight solutions, but they bring the reassurance then no one is alone and that
44:47
someone cares. To learn more, please visit Humanityhealing dot org. Humanity Healing
44:53
is where your Heart is. Back on Vox Novus, my guest this week
45:08
is doctor Frida Burnbaum. Codependent People also have difficulty in expressing emotions. How
45:15
does this affect their relationships and negatively affect them? Well, what happens when
45:22
you don't express your emotions? People really don't know what it is you're thinking,
45:29
because emotions are really stronger than words, and they don't really know what
45:35
it is because you repressed your emotions because you were taking care of you weren't
45:39
allow to have emotions. So you're continuing that sense of not having you know,
45:50
accountability for yourself. You just someone who has information. That's very sad,
45:57
because we are emotional human beings. Somebody's laughing, if somebody's upset,
46:02
the way somebody looks, the way somebody behaves, all that are much bigger
46:07
cues than what the person is saying. For sure. I know when I
46:12
go on the media half the time, if I talk too much on a
46:15
TV show, people don't even remember what I said, but they'll remember how
46:20
I expressed it, or if I was happy or if I wasn't happy,
46:23
because that's how we do connect to each other. So it's often not even
46:29
what you say, but it's how you say it. And codependent people have
46:35
not given themselves or been given that kind of privilege to have that kind of
46:42
repport, and that's very sad. As I'm talking to you, I'm making
46:45
this face that you're lucky you can't see, but I'm making. It's very
46:51
disturbing because I'm such an emotional wreck all over the place. I'm such an
46:57
emotional person that I wouldn't be me are without me, And yes, when
47:04
you're co dependent, you can't be that person. When I was co dependent,
47:07
when I was helping all the time, you think anybody really cared how
47:10
I felt? They felt you have too much going anyway? What are you
47:15
complaining about? That was my response. That was their response to me.
47:20
I didn't have that. So, yes, you have to free yourself and
47:24
you have to be able to And being on a podcast helps too because you
47:30
have people who are actually listening to you and not saying no. They have
47:32
no choice. They turned you on and you can say what you want.
47:37
How freeing is that? Because most of the time co dependent people here no.
47:42
My mother said no to everything I wanted to do, so I ended
47:45
up saying no to everything I could have done because I felt I would be
47:50
a bad person. And so if I was unhappy, I was doing the
47:55
right thing. Because she was always putting this fear factor into me. You
48:00
can't do this, You do it when you get married, was a big
48:02
phrase she said. And I say, well, when I would get married,
48:07
I would care to travel. I don't care. I want to do
48:08
this while I'm single. I want to expect. You know, when you
48:12
get married, that's when you'll do it. So there's always these boundaries and
48:16
responsibilities and not having the opportunity to have emotions because you were beaten down emotionally
48:27
by not physically, for having being so carefree. Why are you laughing so
48:34
much? Why are you so excited? Why are you talking so loud?
48:39
So when you intimidate other people, what do you do after a while?
48:44
You push it inside? Now. Of course I'm not intimidating. I don't
48:47
care if I intimidate. But having this kind of feeling emotions is really what
48:57
makes you human. I mean, what are we doing with this robotics age
49:00
and with my boys they're building robots. Maybe one day these robots will have
49:06
emotions and the consciousness who knows sounds scary, will come into play as well.
49:12
The future holds all this for us. You know, they say,
49:15
I'm not a robot I have feelings. Well, maybe robots will have feelings
49:21
that things are changing, but yes, feelings, emotions make you who you
49:28
are, and you're different. Everybody has different emotions, Everybody responds differently.
49:35
Some people laugh, some people take it in quietly, some people get upset,
49:38
some people are not affected. But when you have that kind of connection
49:44
relationship, you don't even have to talk, you don't have to use words
49:47
because you know how that person is feeling, and sometimes you don't even have
49:53
to be together to know if that person is okay. Did you ever have
49:58
an instinct that some is going wrong somewhere? Absolutely? And were you right?
50:04
Absolutely? So that connection really is stronger than words, and that's what
50:07
we have to listen to. That's where we have to be able to tune
50:13
in not what other people are saying, but what our own psyche is giving
50:19
us. Nobody can have the feelings that you have. I just told somebody
50:25
the other day I was driving, my husband took the wheel from me.
50:29
We got into an accident because my timing is different than his. Psychologically,
50:35
our timing is different behind our own mental will than anybody else's. And when
50:42
you have that connection with someone I know with my daughter, if she's doing
50:46
okay, if she's not doing okay, which is not a good thing for
50:51
me always, but yes, you can go ahead and act on it.
50:57
You have to allow yourself to say, I don't care what anyone is saying.
51:00
Why are you bothering? Why are you doing this? Why are you
51:04
turning around and going the other way? When you have those intuitive feelings,
51:09
that's what makes you who you are, and that's how you've evolved. The
51:15
more you have that kind of attitude mentality, that opportunity to tune into what
51:24
you're thinking, what you're feeling, what your emotions are, that's what connects
51:30
you most to another human being, and that's what helps you to behave differently.
51:34
It's the feelings. First. Of course, I understand you have a
51:37
new book in the offering. Please tell us about it, Yes, I
51:40
do. You know, we need to keep busy, we need to talk
51:45
about things. And so my third book is about the Tailor's Daughter. My
51:50
father was a tailor, and I through when life begins at any age,
51:53
because through these forties fifties, my life was always beginning and changing, and
51:58
also life stops at any age, So you have to be careful that you
52:04
have to see yourself as looking at your life as precious and taking it in
52:09
every day in a way that this day is going to make a huge difference
52:15
in your life. Forget about the future, forget about the past, stay
52:20
with the moment, and go ahead and do what it is that you're going
52:25
to do. Not tomorrow. There's a saying people have, I'll do it
52:28
tomorrow or no. Right now is the time when you stop listening to us
52:32
talking, write it down and follow through. Once you do that, you'll
52:37
feel much better. When I was going for my PhD, I said,
52:42
my god, five years, who cares? I don't want about it.
52:45
It's too much trouble. But every day if I did fifteen minutes of it,
52:49
I felt better right away. I did something towards that. So the
52:53
book is about that. It's about, you know, honoring what you do
52:58
have, how to get there, how to make things work. I had
53:02
many emergency situations. My father had a heart attack. I was told you
53:08
three months I saw something on TV for stenting, and right away in Miami.
53:16
They went there and the cab driver was told to take them to Miami
53:22
in hard institute. He wouldn't do it. He finally got my father got
53:27
him in the cab and said, I'm sorry, your daughter wants me to
53:30
do this whatever, and it saved him twenty five years of life more he
53:34
had because of that, And that was my intuition, that was my feeling.
53:38
When the doctor said he only had three months, I didn't believe him.
53:44
And I had other intuitive experiences like that that really changed my life in
53:51
many ways. So the book is about that. The book is about what
53:55
rything is all about and what and having a life that's not as long as
54:01
you wanted to. I had a child, a son that passed away at
54:06
the age of twenty two, So yes, it's about life begins or ends
54:13
at any age, and I wanted to express that. And I was fortunate
54:17
that he was extremely happy and accomplished at that time in his life. So
54:22
that was part of the book too. So part of it is how I
54:27
rescued different situations medically within myself as well, and how I would not take
54:32
no for an answer the opposite, but I did when I was a child
54:37
that I was told no all the time. So I had something medically and
54:42
I was told no, this is not going to work, No, this
54:45
is no. No, no, no, no, no, and I
54:46
kept going till I found and I tell people this too in medicine, keep
54:52
going to the doctor till you find what you want to hear. I finally
54:57
finally found a doctor who told me what I wanted to hear, and it
54:59
works. So those are the pursuits that I've taken that you know, you
55:04
always have to push, You always have to keep going. Get out of
55:07
my way, here I come. I'm doing. This is what I need
55:09
to do, and it keeps you from anxiety, depression, whatever it is,
55:15
because you go ahead and you make that difference. I had a lot
55:20
of near death experiences, and so did my father during the Holocaust, and
55:28
maybe I take after him, although I unfortunately was not in the Holocaust.
55:32
And so my book is about persevering and how you can go ahead and have
55:40
everything you want and life is long enough, no matter what age, to
55:45
be able to get that in the wisdom and experience of my guest, doctor
55:50
Frieda. Burnbaumb Doctor Freeda, one more time, please tell our listeners where
55:53
they can get your books and find out more about you and your work.
55:55
Thank you very much. I have a podcast, and excuse me, the
55:59
doctor to Frida show d O C T O R FRI I E D A
56:02
show. I have a website, Doctorfrida dot com, and you can hear
56:07
me and see me in the media as well. Doctor Preter, thank you
56:12
so much for joining us and sharing all of this wisdom and experience. Thank
56:15
you so much for having me on, and thank you for joining us on
56:20
Vox Novis. I'm a Victor the Voice Berman. Have a wonderful week.