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Friends Don't Let Friends Give Non-Strategic Donations · Not Right Now

• 0:00
  I took the dog for a very slow 12-minute walk this morning, and my children yelled at me for not attending to them during that time. And I was like, "What about me?"
• 0:07
  [upbeat music] Welcome to Not Right Now, the podcast about parenting through all of this. We'll be talking about/crashing out over topics like... Gender identity and why they won't wear a coat.
• 0:23
  School shooting drills and forgotten PE clothes. It's not an advice show. It's a you're not alone, and you're also not crazy for screaming in the shower kinda show. I'm Claire Zulkey from Evil Witches.
• 0:35
  And I'm Quin Emmett from Important Not Important. You can find details on anything we talk about in the show notes or at our website, notrightnow.show..show.
• 0:45
  And if you like what you hear today, please share it with a parent who needs it or who might laugh and tell their kids to be quiet, and then drop us a nice little five-star review.
• 0:53
  And reminder, you can send questions or feedback to questions@notrightnow.show. [upbeat music] Hey, it's Quin.
• 1:10
  We just had a fantastic recording, which you're about to hear. A recording, it sounds so formal. There's nothing formal about this fucking show. With the great Melissa Walker. Melissa Walker is a mom of two.
• 1:24
  She grew up in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. She is a North Carolina fan, not a fucking Duke fan, which is great, and so we kept her on the show. She's the author of eight young adult novels.
• 1:33
  Melissa is also the principal strategist of Giving Circles at The States Project, which is a fantastic, fantastic organization that is helping to flip US state houses, state houses, which is where the power really is, back to majorities of people who give a shit about you, and your kids, and other people's kids, and the water they drink, and the air they breathe, and the classrooms they're in, and all those different type of things.
• 1:58
  Great combo. Really loved it. Please enjoy our, our talk with the great Melissa Walker. [upbeat music] Um- Well, Melissa's from New, from North Carolina. She is a, like a, you're a- I'm a college basketball person...
• 2:11
  yeah, you're the- That's the only right answer, I think. Hold on. Which way- Okay... do you go down the college basketball road in North Carolina? 'Cause there's two ways. Well, I guess there's a few.
• 2:20
  There are two But really, there's only two. One of them is really a dark side situation. I am a Carolina Tar Heels fan. That's the right answer. She can stay. Great. Yeah. Perfect. Well. Perfect.
• 2:32
  The other- She speaks Michael Jordan. Yeah. Yeah, perfect. It's great. One of my kids the other night, we were going to bed, he's like, "Why do I like Duke again?" I was like, "It's bedtime.
• 2:38
  We don't have time for all this." It's, oh, gosh. Yeah, now I always root hate Duke, and they didn't let me in when I applied. So you know that that's, that like I would wanna be a member. Even more.
• 2:46
  We just add that to the pile. Fucking wow. And now y'all have got, y'all have one of our, my favorite, Caleb Wilson, my favorite player from last year, now on the Chicago Bulls. So that's exciting for y'all.
• 2:57
  I need to catch up on, on basketball.
• 2:59
  I have a blind spot, but I'm happy for myself that I have that to look forward to, 'cause I can't cheer for the Black Hawks anymore, because they were like knowingly hiring a rapist coach who raped one of their own players, and everyone covered it up.
• 3:11
  And I was like, "Well, that's unforgivable to me," but that's just, that's just me. I was on therapy call. Quin was like, "Should we talk about Cornell tomorrow?" And I was like, "No, I don't have anything to say."
• 3:21
  But I will say is that I was on family therapy about our one child. I won't say which one.
• 3:25
  But I was just saying, it really, like it was just like an extra layer of parenting right now, being like, if you raise a f- like a bad boy, then you are part of the problem, just like a little extra parenting stress.
• 3:37
  That's where I'm coming from right now.
• 3:38
  But, and I'm also working with a broken, officially broken finger, and James last night was like, "If your finger's broken, that means you, you ruined our family streak," 'cause we have a streak of no broken bones in our family up until now.
• 3:51
  So I brought shame upon the family more than anyone else. That is a pretty, that is tempting fate to name that streak. Yes.
• 3:58
  I think it's, it is pretty good, but, but I have been getting Paul to do more food prep, which has been good, 'cause I can't, I can't do it.
• 4:05
  So that's sort of a n- I still do recommend, it's, it's a worst case scenario, but if you're sick of doing home- homemaking, break one of your digits, and then make one of your kids do it. It's like self misery, right?
• 4:17
  Mm, yeah. Is there food he's excited to make that's part of the standard rotation? Or is he just, "Give me a can of hamburger"? Let's see.
• 4:25
  He sliced up, I showed him how to de- how to core a head of lettuce, and how to c- cut it, and how to cut some green onions, and then you use the salad spinner.
• 4:34
  And then the other day I showed him how to snap off asparagus ends, and I got the ruler to show him a h- half-inch slice of, of asparagus.
• 4:44
  And then he, I showed him how to use the garlic mincer, which was like exciting for him, 'cause that involved, you know, crushing. So- Sure... so that was pretty good.
• 4:52
  And then James tried to s- get us to forget that we told him last week he has to make his own lunch, and then this morning he came crawling to me asking if I would make his lunch.
• 5:01
  And I said, "No, no," and so I talked him through cutting up a bell pepper for himself. So, uh, yeah. Anyway, thank you. Give me my crown.
• 5:10
  If, if my kids do end up being criminals, let it be known that I tried, I tried on this day, and I did the best I could. They made some vegetables. What else can you ask for? Yes, yes. Yeah.
• 5:20
  They at least interacted with a bell pepper. Melissa, how are you? This is how we welcome guests to the show- I'm good, thanks... is we just keep going, basically. I love it.
• 5:27
  I felt like I entered a conversation- Jump, jump on in... and jumped right in. Yeah. Please. Perfect. How, how is your parenting going at this moment on Thursday, October 1st, apparently? I will say,
• 5:37
  I don't wanna jinx this, but my, I have, I have two daughters. One is 15 and one is almost 12, and they are in 10th grade and 7th grade.
• 5:46
  And they spent a lot of time last year, or at least the older one spent a lot of time last year not talking to me. Mm-hmm. Just going to her room and closing the door.
• 5:55
  And this year, the school year has brought something different, which is that she really wants to Share things with me about her teachers, mostly complaints, but, and about how much homework she has.
• 6:05
  But I'll just welcome any conversation and moments with her. Yeah. And I try to be super chill on the couch, like, with a book in front of me, and, "Oh, really? Oh, huh. That's, that's too bad." Playing it cool. Right?
• 6:15
  Just, but also super thirsty. Yeah. Yes. So thirsty. Sometimes it just ekes out the thirst, and I can't help it, but she always then immediately retreats, so I just have to take deep breaths and do that.
• 6:28
  And then my 12-year-old is a real sharer and a real, um, energy grabber, and she wants to share everything all the time, and that hasn't changed.
• 6:37
  But I'm really enjoying some more moments of connection with my 15-year-old, and I hope that it continues. Did you think it wasn't coming back by any chance after last year?
• 6:47
  Everyone told me, everyone told me that it would eventually come back, but I thought it might, and it still might. I thought it might take longer.
• 6:54
  I thought it might be like by senior year she'll be, she'll have moved into a space where I'm not the ultimate enemy in the world, and she might- Right... I might have something of value to show her.
• 7:05
  But it seems like she's at least interested in talking about herself at someone who really will listen, and- Yeah... a mom is good for that. Sure. Mm-hmm. No, that's good.
• 7:17
  We're just, we're, w- my wife and I are just ki- so ours are 11, 12, 13. I guess 13, 12, and 11. Boy, girl, boy.
• 7:24
  And they're all in various stages of, of that, of some days and some interactions you're like, "Oh shit, I might get something right now."
• 7:32
  And other ones you're like, "I need you to be as far away from my body as possible." And somewhere in the middle, it's like you said, don't let the thirst out, right? Where every interaction- The thirst... I feel like
• 7:41
  is either like a test or a trap. We're in the car- Yeah... and we're, my 13-year-old, we were trying to do the thing where, you know, guys do it walking or working out or in a car. Don't face each other.
• 7:51
  You know, the whole thing they say for walk and talk therapy and all this. And on the way to swim practice last night, I said... There was a bunch of silence, which we're both mostly fine with, and I was like, "So..."
• 8:03
  And I could just hear him die a little bit the second I said so, 'cause he was like, "Don't." Yeah. "Whatever it is- Mm-hmm... don't ask. Don't, don't- Yeah... don't bring it up. Just don't fucking do it." No.
• 8:14
  I was like, "All right." I mean, I could just hear it. I didn't even bother asking. Whatever it was, I was like, "Nope, I'm already out. I failed." Good for you. Absolutely, honey. You responded to that.
• 8:22
  I mean, I will get a very quick no before I've said anything if I take the breath or God forbid say the so. Mm-hmm. If I knock on the door, I often get a nope. Well, that's what- Thanks.
• 8:35
  I, I almost would appreciate the nope more, but I did appreciate the sigh, 'cause I was like, "Oh no, this one's on me." I, what, what are you, what are you even thinking, you know? Right. So. Yeah.
• 8:44
  Well, I'm glad this came back for you. That's great. You are c- you're killing it.
• 8:47
  We, last week I was driving James and his friend to football, and I was already mad at James for something, and so they were silent on the way there.
• 8:56
  And I was just assuming that James is thinking about how much he hates his mom and he hates his life and he, you know, all of these things. And then we pull up to the parking lot, and he goes, "Wait.
• 9:07
  Is Santa Claus an elf or a human?" And we just had a few minutes to crunch the numbers, and it was like, I was... Ma- basically elves have ear...
• 9:16
  'Cause I said according to the poem, you know, The Night Before Christmas, he's a jolly old elf, elf. But James said, "Elves are always small and have pointy ears." And I was like, "Is that canon?" And he's like, "Yeah."
• 9:27
  And so it was- Those things do conflict with each other. It's true. They do. Yeah. The wait before that, announcing that, that question just made me laugh so hard.
• 9:37
  But it's like that meme, right, of the guy and the girl lying in the bed, and she's like, "I'm sure he's thinking about another woman." And he's like, "I, when does the Batmobile Lego come out," right?
• 9:45
  Or, or whatever it is. It's like they're dumb, and they, they do think, "I hate my mom, I hate my dad, and my life is terrible," but most of the time it's like dragons, basically, where- Yeah. Yeah... we are that simple.
• 9:58
  Yeah. Late September thinking about Christmas, for sure. Melissa, are, are the girls talking to each other very much lately? Are they- Are they sort of, you know, on separate tracks right now?
• 10:07
  And if I can ask, how was it before this? So what has it been, like, up to this point? Yeah. They have always had some beef with each other. I think our older one resents our younger one for existing. Mm-hmm.
• 10:23
  And that hasn't gone away over the years, although they do have moments. They have had moments of playing nicely together.
• 10:30
  They are currently in a moment where they really like to borrow each other's clothes, but also get extremely angry at each other for borrowing each other's clothes.
• 10:39
  And I try to point out to them that this is really a great situation. You both can wear each other's clothes. You have double wardrobes.
• 10:48
  But both of them are really in a scarcity mindset around their own closets and don't want the other one in their clothes.
• 10:55
  So they have a rule that they've created that seems to work okay, which is that you can borrow the clothes as long as the other person never knows about it, which means that you have to...
• 11:05
  They can't see you in the clothes. Do they go to the same school? And... No, they don't. Okay. So that's a hu- One in middle school, one in high school... that, that's, that's doable. Yep. Okay.
• 11:14
  You can't see them in the clo- they can't see each other in the clothes, and then the clothes have to be returned with no spills or stains, which is really hard for our 11-year-old.
• 11:23
  And- There's a little responsibility to learn there, you know? There is. There is some, some subterfuge, some responsibility. It's, you know, it, it kinda works.
• 11:34
  I mean, the first question that our younger one, Ida, calls to me in the morning every morning is, "Is June gone yet?"
• 11:39
  'Cause she leaves a little earlier for school, and that means that she's gonna go in June's closet if June's gone, and she doesn't wanna get caught there. Which is technically allowed now.
• 11:49
  Technically following the rules. Are there any outfits or pieces of outfits that are permanently off limits from the trade, as it were?
• 12:00
  That has not been a thing, thank goodness, because instantly that piece would become the prized- The coveted prize... possession. Correct. Mm-hmm. Yeah. They, they haven't named that yet, so that's a good thing. Okay.
• 12:15
  Okay What about yours, your things? Are your things ever in the mix? Hmm. Not yet, but I feel like we're heading there.
• 12:23
  Every once in a while they'll, they'll grab something, but mostly I just, like, store my T-shirts to bed.
• 12:28
  So I'm, I don't think I'm really in, in their same style zone, and they both are in a very intentional style zone, and it is not- I'm-... late 40s mom stuff. Yeah. Yeah.
• 12:40
  It is certainly, I don't feel any sort of aspirational, you know, drawings when I see younger girls and what they're wearing lately. I'm not thinking I wish I could wear any of that.
• 12:51
  They do say to me, like, "I wish you'd kept your stuff from the early 2000s." And I was like, "I don't even remember what that was." Yes. Yeah. Do you guys? I...
• 13:00
  It makes me laugh so hard when people are like, "Oh, I'm rocking things like 2010 core." And you're like, I don't... It can't even place where that, what I was doing, where, who was the president, what movies were out.
• 13:13
  I don't know what the... Anything after maybe 2001, [laughs] I, it's all a blur, and we've kind of been... No, that's not, that's not true.
• 13:22
  I would say at least since I got married and had kids, especially anything after I had kids, I'm like, well, that's all blown up. You know? There's no style. There was no genre of clothing.
• 13:31
  But, you know, I'm also not the peak, you know, the right diagra- de- demographic for that. So yeah. Quinn, does, do you, does Charlotte ever try to ba- borrow Dana's stuff? She was quite small for a while.
• 13:42
  I mean, Dana's quite small. She's 5'4". She's 5'3". Charlotte has always been smaller, but she's catching up. Dana's dimensions are a little more robust than Charlotte's still, but I, I do...
• 13:54
  Dana believes that Charlotte will inherit the maternal boobs that have been passed down among their family for quite a while. Ah. When, who can know? Will she be the girl that's very early? I don't know.
• 14:05
  But needless to say, most of the things aren't fitting. But also Dana has very happily... Basically the goal has been comfort and Zoom- [laughs]...
• 14:14
  Zoom appropriate things from here on up that are still comfortable but can go away immediately. Charlotte's less interested in that. It's, it seems- Yeah... like there's too much.
• 14:24
  She's always very, I don't wanna say shitty, but she's very judgy of when Dana has to go to something fancy or work things.
• 14:32
  She'll see the shirt on and just give her that look that you probably remember from high school that's devastating. Oh. Which used to really affect Dana, now she's just like, "I don't care what this child says."
• 14:41
  But for a while it was like, wow, really thought she was gonna be on my team, and she is, she is not. All right. So maybe at some point, but not there yet fit wise and doesn't approve of it necessarily. Yeah.
• 14:55
  I feel like I read in fiction, and we're gonna transition into fic- fi- fiction in a second, but, or at least people's ha- hazy memories of children appreciating their mother's style and being like, "Oh Mom, so beautiful," and I remember her getting ready, and my kids will look at with suspicion or not notice, or if I force them to notice that I'm dressed up they are mad at me for taking their time away from something.
• 15:18
  There's never been like, "Oh, Mommy, you're so beautiful," you know, "You look so nice" or anything like that. Let's stop and appreciate everything about her. Yeah.
• 15:24
  I said, "Fine," that was one of the fa- favorite compliments I ever got. That's funny, and you were digging for a second. Yeah. Claire, let me ask you this, 'cause I've asked you this before, but in this context.
• 15:34
  Do you, Melissa with two girls, I've got o- one and some idiot boys. You've got the two boys.
• 15:39
  In, in, when you do get dressed up do you ever wish like there was a lady in the house to, to, besides Bonita, to, to fill that role? To give you some sort of camaraderie?
• 15:49
  Uh, well, I mean, go, we, last week we talked about school dances. The act of getting ready is probably more fun nine times out of 10 than actually going to whatever it is you're going to. Mm-hmm.
• 15:58
  And so, you know, there is a part of me that misses, misses that, or to someone who will always take a fun picture and enjoy the picture.
• 16:06
  You know, I feel like none of the guys I live with are, like, super keen to take a picture and be normal about it. So that's why you have friends at events to go to.
• 16:14
  But, you know, also I have heard from my friends with daughters that their daughters can be extremely mean to them. You know?
• 16:19
  Right when you think you're feeling good that they're like, "Wow, you were born in the 1800s," or, "Wow, you're really trying something with that haircut."
• 16:26
  So I guess I will accept not being noticed and being for noticed for the wrong reasons. Mm. So yeah.
• 16:33
  Yeah, the evisceration that a teen girl can deliver is pretty much the harshest form of evisceration I have ever experienced. But do you believe...
• 16:43
  So my 13-year-old boy that I've, I've told this story 100 times, like again, like tall, attractive, athletic white boy, like he's gonna be fine, and he got to middle school, so we're sixth, seventh, eighth here, public school, and super excited to go to school with the big kids, and then within two weeks was like, "Holy shit, I'm with the big kids and there's all the drama and this and that," and I said, "Okay, as sensitive as you are about your single pimple or whatever it might be, you know, or your, your new burgeoning smell, every one of these girls that you've grown up with," 'cause he does like swim team and stuff, he's known most of these people for their whole lives.
• 17:14
  I said, "The, take however insecure you are, multiply it times one million for every second of the day, and that's probably driving a lot of the evisceration and- That's rough... and things like that.
• 17:27
  And I need you to just not engage. Don't make it worse by any means. Don't be that fucking guy. But also, like, it's not y- well, sometimes it's about you because you're an idiot, but most of the time it's not.
• 17:40
  But I think my wife was kind of shocked, and again, [laughs] this started younger.
• 17:43
  I don't know if my daughter just didn't know you don't say things like, "Wow, that used to fit you better," or if she did and she knew what she was doing, and that's kind of the question. Oh, that's so fucking mean.
• 17:53
  I can't believe that. Yeah. But no. No one will...
• 17:57
  You have to, that's why it's so important to foster your own self-acceptance before you have children because if you are relying on them to make you feel good, it's never gonna happen. Never. It's not gonna happen.
• 18:06
  Um, no.
• 18:07
  I, this is a whole other conversation, but I, I have this whole theory now that the problem with girls today, if there is one problem, is that they don't have awkward phases physically, and I think that is gonna be bad for them down the line, 'cause I don't know how you age and, and, and go through all of the humiliations of aging and, and whatever that comes with without looking back on how you looked when you were in sixth or seventh grade and be like, "Aw."
• 18:29
  At least I, you know, made it through that, and now they can't have that. I'm, well, I'm kind of joking, but Melissa, do you think this is true, that girls today don't have enough awkward phases?
• 18:38
  I think that they do have an awkward phase, but it's so much less awkward, you're right, than it used to be. And both my girls are so much better at doing makeup than I am.
• 18:51
  Like, I basically put on lipstick and then I'm like, "This seems good, right? We're not doing anything else."
• 18:55
  And they have entire routines, skincare, haircare, that really blows my mind, and they, they look pretty good, honestly. I, I don't know how to do any of that.
• 19:08
  Sometimes they wanna do my makeup and I always end up looking good. They're good at it. They have studied. They are cosmetology students. And so you're right.
• 19:16
  It is a less awkward phase and, but, you know, they're still... They a- they act awkward. Mm-hmm. So that's still alive and well.
• 19:24
  Where your cosmetology, like, mentors and lessons were, like, maybe an older sister, Seventeen Magazine, and your friends who were also going through it for the first time, right? Totally. They've got the whole world.
• 19:36
  Yeah. And, and they've, yeah, they've got these step-by-step videos that are constant, you know? So yeah, it's a different world.
• 19:44
  Quinn, you wanted to ask about, you wanted to talk about books today, and this is completely different. This is my long-delayed transition into popular but book form.
• 19:53
  What did you wanna chat with Melissa as someone who knows the scene, is writing for youngsters, has youngsters? What were you, what was on your mind book-wise before we get into politics?
• 20:01
  'Cause we could always talk about politics. No, I mean, oh, Jesus. Um, so no, I'm, like, I love that you're in that space 'cause it's, it's one of my favorite eras, right? Even though it's so defined now.
• 20:12
  But I have really tried to... I, I mean, now it's changing. My oldest is all, like, he's off into everything and I've said, "You can read anything in the house.
• 20:20
  It might not necessarily be something you're aware of yet," you know? But we try not to say inappropriate, maybe not appropriate for your age yet, but now I'm like, "Gloves are off. Go get 'em.
• 20:29
  If it's scary or, or you're horrified by it, then good luck." But otherwise, I love the YA space.
• 20:35
  I always tried to read what they were reading and to give them the YA stuff, YA stuff, like middle grade stuff I kind of grew up with or still read.
• 20:42
  But I'm, like, about 10 years ago, fiction became, like, how I escape, right? It i- it is, I have to do it at night.
• 20:50
  It's a half a gummy and a fiction book that is a happy place for me, even if the book itself is not necessarily a happy place. I know it. I know what's going on. It is either
• 21:00
  1,000 years in the past or 1,000 years in the future, not here.
• 21:05
  And I'm curious, obviously as kids get through school, they can't read quite as much, but as you're writing and as you're working through all of that, like, how much does,
• 21:15
  do kids seek out fiction these days as that kind of escape versus... 'Cause, like, that's kind of a version of what we had and, like, VHS tapes, right? And I think that's part of why I'm still so comfortable with it.
• 21:28
  But do kids look to reading? Do you think about that as a your, or is it more, like, commiseration or...?
• 21:34
  You know, I will say, and I, and I'm really just talking about my own kids 'cause I don't have a real sense of the, you know, the broader trends that are happening right now. But
• 21:44
  my older daughter really only reads fantasy, and she definitely loves a very long book. Okay. And she, that is a real escape for her.
• 21:59
  She also, during the school year, she's, she's in a drama program, so she reads a lot of plays during the school year. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
• 22:05
  Which I think is fascinating, and it's made me start reading plays, which I think are, like, really fun to read.
• 22:11
  They're also really short, so I'll have a short book, and that's how I kind of keep in touch with what she's reading. I don't wanna read the fantasy books. I'm not a fantasy reader, so I- Mm-hmm... I'm not
• 22:22
  gonna delve there with her. But my younger daughter does read contemporary middle grade novels and really enjoys them. She still really enjoys a graphic novel, too. Mm-hmm.
• 22:33
  And will read those over and over and over again. I think a couple things. I'm glad you took the gloves off for your older child because I think that books are the safest place to experience- Mm-hmm... scary things.
• 22:47
  I think it's, you know, it's just, you can really control the pace of how you experience something, you know, in a way that you can't even with television- Mm-hmm... or movies, and I think that there's a real comfort to
• 23:03
  finding those moments in books. So glad you did that. I, I have never limited what my older daughter reads, and partly 'cause I'm not willing to read those thousand page books, so I don't know what's in them.
• 23:15
  But I think she has been a more exploratory reader and a deeper reader because of that. Mm-hmm. So I love that. And my younger daughter, she does read contemporary stuff.
• 23:25
  I think she's, she is the kid who's trying to figure out, are my friendships normal? Is what I'm experiencing normal?
• 23:34
  Which I think is so, such an important piece of that contemporary middle grade literature, and that's the type of thing that I write. I will say, my kids have not read my books, which is sort of insulting to me.
• 23:46
  They're dedicated to my- Have you asked them to? Y- yeah. And then my, even worse actually, my 11-year-old was like, "Well, I started one." Ooh, that's- Oh, she did not finish? Don't fucking say that. She did not. Yeah.
• 24:00
  She's like, "I'm not really a completist" That's like almost as bad as saying, "I really wanted to like this, but dot dot dot." Oh, my gosh. Aw. Just that one will stay with me forever. But, but, but her friends,
• 24:15
  her friends have brought over my books for me to sign. They make me feel so good. Aw. But she herself, and my older one was like, "Mom, I just like fantasy.
• 24:23
  I don't like contemporary," which I did take as the excuse for a while. I was like, "You're right. You do read- Mm-hmm... these books that are so different from what I write."
• 24:29
  The younger one reads literal comps that my agent would use and loves them, and then- Won't read mine.
• 24:37
  So, you know, I don't know It would be like y- not borrowing your clothes, but going to the consignment store and buying the exact same clothing that somebody else had, you know, same size, same everything, but just not yours.
• 24:47
  That's [laughs] sort of like complimentary and also a fuck you. But if it makes you feel better- Yeah... I have only, my kids have...
• 24:54
  I read the middle grade book that I wrote, that I co-wrote with two James at bedtime, but neither of them ever...
• 25:00
  And that is its own kind of hell, having to read it out, read your own book out loud to your child, so be careful what you wish for.
• 25:06
  But it was kind of fun though, because like, I would, I would say, "Actually, w- when I wrote this, I was thinking about that," you know?
• 25:12
  And he, he was, for all that, what he puts me through, he was a very responsive reader and was like, one character I wrote, he's like, "I like Mr. So-and-So. He's a good guy."
• 25:21
  And that was like strangely, it was a very like t- like, you know, side character, but it was very cute that he thought of it like that.
• 25:27
  But I can, I can, I can, I have been there in terms of kids not being remotely impressed that you have, like, ISBNs behind your name. Yeah, no. Humble. Not- Humbling. Yep. Mm-hmm. Very.
• 25:40
  Does it make you wanna write a fantasy book to connect with her in some way? Gosh, no. I really, it's just not my thing. No. She has actually written some deep fan fiction on- Nice... some of her fantasy stuff.
• 25:52
  So I do feel, I feel like that's the way I've connected with my older kid. She's a writer. Like- That's awesome... she definitely is.
• 25:59
  And so I see that coming out in her, and I see her, like, you know, creating space for herself to, to do some of that work, and I think that makes me feel really proud.
• 26:09
  But of course, I have to hide that completely- Mm-hmm... and just be totally chill about if she goes to a cafe to write, I'm like, "Oh cool, whatever. I don't care."
• 26:17
  And then she leaves and I'm like, "Oh my God, she went to a cafe to write?" That's really cute. Yeah, you can't ruin it by observing it too much or, or appreciating it too much.
• 26:26
  I wanna tell you, by the way, so my kids love Gordon Korman. Melissa, feel free to alter my descriptions of him.
• 26:33
  I read one book of his out loud or maybe two of them, but it's sort of like fiction for boys, realistic fiction for boys.
• 26:38
  Not ex- not exclusively for boys, but they're, the protagonist is usually a boy, and often has an athletic tinge but isn't strictly a sports book.
• 26:48
  So the one that I read first with Paul was about a kid who, it's called Restart, and it was a boy who woke up with a brain injury, and he had fallen out of a window, and he had amnesia, and he was realizing that before he had amnesia, he was like the star football player and also a bully.
• 27:03
  And now, and it was almost like a Frankenstein's monster sort of in reverse where he's come through it, everyone's scared of him, and he's not that anymore.
• 27:10
  So, so anyway, James is really into Gordon Korman now, and I feel has really kind of recently switched over into chapter books from exclusively graphic novels, which I'm totally fine with either way.
• 27:20
  But I- Melissa knows Gordon, right? Aren't you guys, you know him through, tell me how you guys know each other. I do, yeah. I know him through the young adult author circuit in New York, and he's great.
• 27:30
  I mean, he's r- and I think his books are really funny and hit such a great tone. Yeah. And he's prolific. I mean, he's been writing for decades at this point, and he's not that old.
• 27:39
  I think he published his first one when he was really young. So yeah, he's an incredible writer. I love him. Well, I told James that I know you. By the way, did I describe his work?
• 27:48
  I'm sure I've missed over some nuance of it. Did I, any, what, would you describe- Oh, yeah. No, I think-... his work any differently? Okay.
• 27:53
  I would, although I do have to say, I definitely, as, as a person whose works are often with a girl protagonist, I do have that- Mm...
• 28:02
  I always have that feeling, I have been to schools where I've shown up for a school visit and they've said, "Well, the girls are in the library waiting for you, and the boys are just gonna do something in the gym" and I'm like- Oh, yeah...
• 28:13
  "What?" Yeah. Um, so I, it's, it's, and it's, it always surprises me every time. And so I do think that, you know, everyone should read everything.
• 28:24
  Everyone should pick up books, you know, none of us are dragons, but everyone loves a dragon book, so [laughs] take that. Right. Yeah, no, it's true.
• 28:31
  Um, and I think girls get asked to read about boys all the time- Uh-huh... and boys rarely are asked to read about girls, and are often told, "That's a girl book." So just- Yeah... naming that. No, it's true.
• 28:41
  Little thing. And I- Yeah... it does make me pleasure that James does love a graphic novel with a big girl, like a Ra- Raina Telgemeier book.
• 28:47
  He loves, like, so I wouldn't necessarily be like he's only reading these, quote-unquote, "boy books," but those are the, the chapter books that he's picking up currently.
• 28:55
  But he, anyway, I told him that my friend knows Gordon Korman, and he said, "Can you get me an autograph?"
• 29:01
  And I was like, "Why don't you try writing a letter to the author and expressing your appreciation of him, rather than me asking my friend to do some work for you?" And of course, that hasn't come to pass.
• 29:11
  So anyway, he is sort of impressed- He didn't wanna do the work?... by my teenage son. No, of course not. Say something nice and, you know, go the extra mile.
• 29:19
  But he was very impressed by my, by, not k- not impressed by the fundraising, by the thousands of dollars I've raised, we'll get to that, because of you exclusively, or, you know, the ma- many other things that our friendship has wrought.
• 29:31
  No, it's only that he, you know a guy that he thinks is cool, so thanks. Yeah. Way to go, Melissa. Well, Gordon Korman's pretty cool, and I'm gonna tell him this story for sure. Yes. So. Okay. All right.
• 29:41
  Those have been the new, I think the new, the new bridge for us. And as long wa- along with a little bit of nonfiction adventure stuff, they haven't gotten quite to Jonathan Krakauer, but Paul- Mm...
• 29:51
  has been like sort of reading the start of some- Ooh...
• 29:53
  kind of like outdoorsy b- articles in The New Yorker, and I don't know how far he goes, but anything that involves someone dying, like in a national park, he's kind of interested in.
• 30:01
  So we'll see if that, that gets him, gets him through. But Melissa, have you been, do you follow book talk or talk, book drama right now?
• 30:09
  'Cause that is so exhausting, but also feels like part of the game if you're selling books. Yeah.
• 30:14
  I, I do not, but I am on a text chain with some close friends who do, so I feel like I hear about the things that bubble up the most via that text chain, and then I decide whether I wanna wade into it and be a lurker or not, but I- Mm-hmm...
• 30:29
  definitely, I mean, my last book came out in 2018 because I got a political job basically in 2016- And so I haven't really had my head deeply in that world for a long time, though I still have a bunch of great friends there.
• 30:45
  I'm glad I've missed the last few years of the drama there, to be honest. I think it's gotten meaner and more narrow-minded in a way that is frustrating, and I think it'll open up again.
• 30:55
  But it's-- I'm, I'm not sorry to have missed some of the, the drama in that world. Yeah. What do you-- Do you have a, do you have a, a book coming out soon?
• 31:05
  Where-- Remind me where you are with your, in your book process. I have, I have a book that's, that's under contract. So- Mm... I have a book that's due, and I think it will come out in 2028. So that's exciting.
• 31:19
  I'm really happy about it. I love, I love being back in the writing process.
• 31:25
  I can't say more about the book, but I will say that it has changed my schedule so that my mornings are now spent in a cafe dreaming up characters and thinking, and that is a wonderful way to spend a morning, and I- Uh-huh...
• 31:39
  have missed it so much. So I'm really grateful that my full-time job has made it possible for me to do that in my morning, early morning hours, and then start work- Yeah... a little later.
• 31:50
  Well, that's like a message of inspiration and hope to anyone out there who is like, "I'll never write or be creative again while my kids are..."
• 31:57
  Like, "There's nothing waiting for me as my kids enter this zone of, of constant need," or anything like that. So it's always good to hear that, you know. How has that changed for you? What do you think
• 32:07
  has changed or not changed since the first book onto this one? I mean, I know the industry has changed. AI wasn't a thing. Talk a little bit about how your work has changed with the novels.
• 32:15
  Before we get to your very important political work, but I, I-- B-books before politics. Shove it down. Shove it down. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Books before politics, always. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No.
• 32:24
  I-- My first book came out in 2007, so it has been a long time. I honestly think s- a lot is the same for me. I really like giving myself a daily word count habit.
• 32:38
  I really like doing the work, even if I'm gonna erase that word count the next day because I realize none of that's any good. Yeah.
• 32:44
  The muscle is still something that opening the document every day helps you work out, and I think- Uh-huh... that is, that is the piece that I've kinda continued to carry with me.
• 32:54
  You know, I haven't thought about-- It, it's interesting. I haven't really thought about how AI is affecting us. I'm still in my old habit of not even a Google Doc, but a Microsoft Word doc.
• 33:04
  So I'm sort of like a- Yeah... a dinosaur writer at this point. But I love it because it almost feels old-fashioned in a delightful way, like a record album or a boombox. I've got a boombox behind me.
• 33:16
  And I think that that, that's part of what I love about it, actually. It feels very much like me getting in touch with my inside world as opposed to social media or all the things that are going on in the outside world.
• 33:28
  I think it's really grounding me to be doing the writing practice again, and I love that piece of it. I don't think it'll ever change for me. That's exciting.
• 33:35
  I'm glad to hear that 'cause I feel like the part of me that wanted to write is not awake right now.
• 33:41
  I, I have a different kind of writing that I'm doing, but at least anything fiction, I may not ever write fiction again, and I don't think that will be bad for the world necessarily.
• 33:49
  But I, you know, I've been e-excited to hear more from like moms my age who are like, have shown that you can come through and, like, rediscovered. I don't know.
• 33:57
  Quinn, have you written fiction very m- well, no, sorry, Melissa, you were talking about it when I got dropped out. It was you. I was-- No, I was just gonna say that, you know, like, life is good for writing, you know?
• 34:06
  Yeah. You come back to the page with more. And I think-- And you can write forever, you know? Like, people say, "Oh, you could play tennis or golf forever. Those are sports you can do into your old age." Maybe.
• 34:15
  But, like, you can write forever. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, like, that to me, I mean, I don't know.
• 34:21
  Like, Claire, if I were you, I would, I would head into, you know, the, the post-kid era with some time and a pen because I would love to see something else from you. Yeah. Romanticy.
• 34:31
  And all the things that you've done in between. Yes. [laughs] Let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Quinn, how is your-- What's your writing life been like aside from what you do for work?
• 34:42
  Oh, I mean, yeah, don't wanna talk about that. It's fine. I would love to go back to it at some point. I'm glad I spent a lot of time doing it.
• 34:49
  So Melissa, my wife, is a screenwriter and producer, and has done a million things. And after I did it- She wrote Wicked, Melissa. She did the screenplay. Mm.
• 34:57
  She wrote, she wrote the Wicked movies and a bunch of other things. She's been working very hard for a long time. So
• 35:03
  after and in between doing a million other things, including all the political stuff and philanthropic stuff and things like that, I did some screenwriting when we were out in Los Angeles, and I really loved it.
• 35:13
  I mean, you know, going into it sort of business aware is an interesting experience 'cause you realize, you know, as a former baseball player, where three for 10 gets you in the Hall of Fame, screenwriting, it's one for 40.
• 35:24
  You know, someone actually buying it is, is success. So that is both frustrating and helpful 'cause you're like, "It's not g- it's, it's not gon- measurably not gonna work." But I do really miss the act of it, for sure.
• 35:37
  Like you said, it is a version of getting in touch with whatever. You're, you wanna talk middle grade, you wanna write World War II fiction, like, what? It, it doesn't matter.
• 35:48
  I think that's very healthy, and I think if you can, like you said, find some sort of space to do that, it's probably helpful to your other work and maybe your family life as well 'cause, boy- Yeah...
• 35:59
  is it easy to look up.
• 36:01
  And, you know, I'm very privileged to, to do the things I do here, but it's-- even then, it's easy to look up and be like, "I don't know what's going on in me," and much less have I tried to express it in some creative way in, ever, or in God knows when.
• 36:15
  You know, especially in this kid phase, especially with the work and all those things.
• 36:20
  Yeah, I literally said out loud, I took the dog for a very slow 12-minute walk this morning, and my children yelled at me for not attending to them during that time. And I was like, "What about me?"
• 36:29
  And they're like- Yeah... "Give a shit about you." So, like, creative writing- Yeah... is
• 36:34
  There was a woman who I, I went to this event a couple weeks ago with Caitlin Teare, formerly on the show, and there was a mom who asked her... And she, this mom had a toddler, like a Godzilla toddler.
• 36:45
  So cute, but, you know, just that look out for me world.
• 36:48
  And she was, like, h- asking about the frustration of getting back on the schedule and a writing schedule, and I, you know, I'm sure she didn't wanna hear from me, but I was like, "Give it, give yourself some time 'cause you are...
• 36:58
  With a kid like this, this age, always getting sick, always getting into something, you're not gonna... You can't count on that time anymore and to reflect, and be articulate, and organize your thoughts."
• 37:08
  My wife and I both found it easier when they were small because I think the, the, the logistics and exhaustion were there, but the schedule was so much more finite during the day and compacted.
• 37:20
  Our kids went to bed at 6:00, you know, and they got up, like, when we fucking let them out of their rooms.
• 37:25
  We would throw books in and say, "You can't come out until the dumb little light on your alarm clock screen," at whatever it was, 6:30, 7:00.
• 37:31
  And in between, you know, you got a fair amount done 'cause y- they didn't have, "Oh, but I wanted to go to the theme park with this person, not that person, because this person told me this last month, and that person texted me about that."
• 37:42
  And you're like, "Now that's in my head, and I have to- Eh... y- I have to dedicate something to that and keep that in mind." Yeah. It's just more exhausting. At least, I don't know. I don't know. The, it seems- Yeah...
• 37:53
  like there's more to keep track of. Do your kids ever ask Dana or allow her h- to help with writing stuff, or are they like, "Your job that, you know, sustained our whole family is irrelevant to my thing"? Yes.
• 38:05
  All, all of the above. As they've got...
• 38:07
  I think Wicked came at a great time, even though it was this insanely long experience for her, and obviously for, for the movie and the s- story itself, because she had never really done anything remotely sort of for kids expressly, even though that was sort of for everyone, and they were just kind of the age of it.
• 38:25
  I think it probably helped when you have Ariana Grande involved, who was both great to them and something you couldn't miss being part of in general, even though Dana's adorably naive to those things.
• 38:37
  She's like, "Some woman named Ariana's in the movie?" And my daughter's like, "Are you fucking kidding me?" Yeah, we've a bunch of great stories. But you know, Dana will...
• 38:47
  She gets both frustrated when they get off the school bus and she's like, "Fuck, how is my day over already?" And we're like, "Don't work in the house."
• 38:56
  She's got a, a little office at her mom's house down the street, and that's better, but then of course, as I've told Claire, my children have no boundaries. They just go over there instead.
• 39:03
  They're like, "There's nowhere we can't find you," right? Yeah. They, they don't give a shit. So that's frustrating, but then she'll sit them down and be like, "Then you read this, and you tell me I, I have to do this?
• 39:14
  No, you're gonna fucking read it, too." And they'll have ideas, or thoughts, or this or that.
• 39:18
  And I know she, she did the re- well, she did uncredited a lot of rewrites on the, on the new Moana, which was like, God knows, you know?
• 39:27
  We all know why they make those things, but it was fun and she got to work on them, and she loved the people involved. And she was just like, "Look, you guys grew up on Moana. What do you think?"
• 39:35
  You know, get part of that. And then I think that's fun, and it's a way for her to keep working but also technically spend time with them. Yeah, and then like anything else, eventually she's just like, "Get out. Get out.
• 39:47
  Please just get out- Yeah... and leave me alone." So- Yeah... I think it depends on the day, you know? Yeah. But also, most of her work, they're, they don't give a shit about, you know? Sure. Yeah.
• 39:56
  And I still don't really know what my dad does, and he's probably gonna retire soon, so I don't have a lot longer. I need to figure it out pretty soon.
• 40:03
  Melissa, I know you have to go to a meeting in 15 minutes, so this is- Oh, yeah... I have no elegant transition for this, but we... Okay, so pe- for people who are listening who don't know Melissa Walker, she...
• 40:13
  What is your exact title with the States Project? I don't wanna give the wrong- I would say Principal Strategist and the Co-founder of the Giving Circles program. Okay.
• 40:23
  So with your permission, I'm just gonna say- Claire, your finger keeps poking up on screen and it's funny I'm sorry. You know what's funny? In our family meeting, our family therapy Zoom, her...
• 40:32
  It kept showing up as I was trying to raise my hand, so it kept prompting an icon for that. I'll just hide it under here. Hide my pain away, yet again. The...
• 40:41
  Okay, so the States Project, I got involved with them because Melissa, we go way back in terms of I think she used to edit me at Media Bistro. She hired me to be a reporter- Ooh... at Elle Girl magazine. Real back.
• 40:52
  Real back in the day stuff. And she was an O- OG evil witch 'cause we had kids around the same age, but she reached out to me. It used... The States Project used to be called The Future Now Fund, right?
• 41:02
  And it was a group that of progressive Democratic strategists who identify state elections that have the potential to go blue and make a difference in those areas.
• 41:13
  But the philosophy that state elections, local elections- That's right... are a lot y- so your money goes a lot farther as a donor for that.
• 41:20
  And so if you want to make change regarding putting Democrats back in office, you are more likely to have an impact with those local elections than at a presidential election. So she pulled me into that.
• 41:31
  This is my, I don't know, fourth, third, f- fourth cycle, if not more, raising money. I'm raising money for Wisconsin currently for evil witches.
• 41:39
  But Melissa, give us a rundown right now how things are looking into the midterms, what states are mattering, what people who care about kids and families might wanna keep an eye on for this election round.
• 41:49
  I know it's a lot of questions at once, but state of the union. You've got nine minutes. Go. Great. Yeah. Yeah, go. Yeah, I mean, the thing is that, yes, there's, there are a lot of states that are in play.
• 42:00
  We are in, I believe, 13 target states where we see a possibility to shifting the balance of power. Our goal is to elect majorities that are gonna improve people's lives.
• 42:10
  We also do things like working to break right-wing super majorities and gain governing power for people who are gonna improve lives.
• 42:17
  I think the most important thing for people to think about is that, you know, when you're looking at the federal level, which everyone's always looking at 'cause that is what is in the spotlight, you are looking at a place where it is really hard for individuals to have an impact.
• 42:32
  And the state level Is a place where it's not that hard for individuals to have an impact.
• 42:39
  It's hard for individuals to figure out where to target and which states and which seats, but that's what The States Project does.
• 42:46
  So I think figuring that out is part of our work, and then plugging people into the places where they can actually impact power is what the Giving Circles community does.
• 42:56
  Of course, Wisconsin, the, the state that you are giving circle Evil Witches has chosen, is an incredibly important one this year.
• 43:02
  It's a state where it is possible to win a Democratic trifecta, meaning control of the governor's mansion, the state senate, and the state house for the first time in decades in Wisconsin.
• 43:13
  And that is a state that had been gerrymandered very extremely for Republicans after 2010.
• 43:20
  But there are new maps now, and it's really possible for us to win both the state senate and the state assembly and the governor's mansion.
• 43:27
  We work exclusively on state legislatures, but if we were able to flip the state house and the state senate, it would also be the first state in the union to have two women leaders at the top of those chambers, Greta Neubauer and Diane Hesselbein, who are both wonderful.
• 43:42
  And those women leaders have an incredible agenda that it w- that they've put together with their caucuses and with the, with The States Project team that will really change people's lives if they're able to get the majority.
• 43:53
  And we see that in state after state after state. When there's a new majority elected, things can change instantly.
• 44:02
  So one example of that is in 2022, actually, you all helped us flip Michigan, the state house and the state senate. We flipped both of those chambers by fewer than 400 votes.
• 44:12
  With one seat majorities in each of those chambers, we were actually able to, you know, win those seats, and then Michigan was able to do things like
• 44:21
  pass, you know, get reproductive rights written into the state constitution and pass paid family leave and end right-to-work laws so unions could organize again and pass climate laws.
• 44:33
  And we saw that those same bills passing in Minnesota too after we won the majority there. We won the state senate by fewer than a hu- by 191 votes in one district.
• 44:43
  So these are places where the margins are so slim and the impact is huge. The thing about it, though, is it's not in the news.
• 44:53
  News really focuses on Washington, DC, and so everything that we hear about now that's swirling and, you know, all the bad news, all the scandals, all the big, the big things that are happening, what we're not hearing about are states that are actually actively improving people's lives because they have a parallel power to the federal government.
• 45:13
  And I think that's just an important thing for th- people to look at and to know who goes to their state capital for them and make sure their, the majority in their state is serving them.
• 45:21
  And if people really care about kids and families, well, the federal government hasn't done anything on paid family leave, but 100 million people in this country live in states that have.
• 45:32
  And that is just something that is controlled by state government right now, and that's true on healthcare, climate, education funding, and abortion and voting rights.
• 45:43
  All of those things are controlled at the state level. So watching those 50 mini congresses go can actually be very inspiring, and changing majorities in them can really change people's lives.
• 45:53
  So that's why we're focused there. Um, I- As a Virginian, I just wanna say thank you for everything you have done.
• 46:00
  Obviously, Virginia's, you know, been working to try to get purple for, for a long time, like Georgia did. Often on the work of, of, of people of color, women of color for a very long time.
• 46:10
  But obviously, the way so many people have responded after 2016, and my good friend Amanda Litman with Run for Something, all the work they have done over the past,
• 46:20
  fuck know, 12 years building, rebuilding, often for the first time building institutional power from, from the local. Literally, like sheriffs and school boards up can go a long way.
• 46:29
  And obviously, you know, Virginia's had a couple hiccups here and there 'cause we're still idiots at times, and we have our dumb off-year elections all the time.
• 46:37
  But we're a very good example of how you can go from like last in voting restrictions basically to, to one of the top five, to, to passing paid leave, to we've got three incredible amendments on the ballot literally, literally today.
• 46:52
  People have already voted on them because people said, "Oh, oh, wait. Hold on. I did not know these, these states and these versions of how my daily life can be affected intersect." I always thought...
• 47:08
  'Cause all you hear is about the federal government.
• 47:10
  And, and you know, in our work, a lot, a lot of that came down after Dobbs, where a bunch of trigger laws kicked in on the state level, some of them 100 years old, and people went, "I had no idea, one, that my state could do that, and two, that that law was already on the books in case that ever went away."
• 47:26
  And it's amazing how many poor people, again, for obviously better and worse, went, "Oh shit, what else can they do?" You know? What else are they capable- Yes...
• 47:35
  of making up for that the federal government cannot or, or will not? Like you said, education's a huge piece of the puzzle there for sure. So big fan. Absolutely.
• 47:44
  And I mean, Virginia, Virginia also, we should say, is the only Southern state that does not have an additional abortion ban post-Dobbs.
• 47:52
  And that is because of the fact that when the Dobbs decision went through, we had one-seat majorities in the state house and the state senate.
• 48:00
  They were able to block the agenda of Governor Youngkin and make sure that a new abortion ban was not introduced in Virginia. That's really important.
• 48:07
  And yeah, now there's a 14-seat majority in the House of Delegates, which is an incredible and durable majority that can withstand even a tough environment if there's one to come, and that's a really exciting thing.
• 48:18
  But it started-- I mean, didn't start, but 10 years ago, we literally pulled a name out of a fucking hat to decide the majority. That's right.
• 48:24
  Like, these things, these amendment, they don't come from nothing, and they are often not a 14-person durable majority. It matter-- I mean, look, a- again, Wisconsin, they have been trying to fight back for 15 years.
• 48:35
  Yep. They've been a national story, a swing state in so many ways, and it's, it's-- You-- If you don't show up, someone else will You know? That's absolutely true.
• 48:43
  That story actually is one that I trot out if I'm talking to kids, the story of a single vote in Virginia, because I do think it's really important.
• 48:52
  Virginia, you're right, was a long build over time since 2017, and that vote in 2017, just to, just if people don't know about it, there was a tie in the election that would decide whether Republicans or Democrats had chamber control in Richmond.
• 49:08
  And they did literally, as Quin just said, pull a name out of a, I believe it was, like, a bespoke porcelain bowl, and they pulled the Republican's name, and Republicans held the- That was it...
• 49:19
  majority in Richmond for another two years because of that pull. That is not actually the single incident of that.
• 49:27
  In Alaska, actually, the, the leader of a coalition in Alaska, he also won his election after a tie where they actually flipped a coin that landed on a beaver pelt, 'cause it's Alaska. Mm.
• 49:39
  You gotta do things differently. Uh-huh. And he won the, the coin flip, and he became the leader, and that created a coalition in Alaska that stood against a right-wing governor for many years.
• 49:46
  But the coin flip changed that. And so when people say, "My vote doesn't count," we can literally point to multiple examples of a single vote deciding not just one election, but chamber control. Yeah.
• 49:59
  And two years later, when we won outright, 400,000 people got health insurance, like, the next day because we passed Medicaid funding, and a buddy of mine took over- Yep... running that. That is what it, it does.
• 50:10
  Again, and that is- Those are the stakes. Yeah, 100%. So thank you. We...
• 50:15
  I know you can't stay for that long, Melissa, but in terms of takeaways, I wanna put in the notes for the show the link to my Evil Witches giving circle, 'cause if anyone who donates before the midterms, their gift will be doubled by then.
• 50:27
  And if people wanna make a longer term impact, I can provide the link to our Evil Witches Zoom for anyone curious about starting their own giving circle, which I say if you can email five people...
• 50:37
  I think, I think you say if you can email five people, you can have a giving circle.
• 50:40
  I say if you're a parent and if you emailed a classroom, a team, a group of parents, you can run a giving circle, and it's not a large lift at all.
• 50:48
  So but more to the side of that, people don't have money or time to get involved. If you just wanna care a little bit more about the midterms, what are any couple races?
• 50:57
  I think the big headlines will be, like, how much of a blue wave was it or did not turn out, regardless of the Trump aspect of it. What are some of the more state...
• 51:05
  Aside from Wisconsin, what are the, some of the state races that you think people should look at in terms of gauging whether, you know, the, the effectiveness of this anti-Trump turnout at the midterms? Yeah.
• 51:16
  I think there's a bunch of states to watch. Unfortunately, it's very difficult to watch state races because they really won't be covered. Yeah.
• 51:23
  But at statesproject.org, we'll be, we'll have a, you know, we'll have some results on the day of.
• 51:28
  And, you know, alwa- there's always newspaper websites that will track it down, way down underneath everything else they're tracking. But we are in Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Arizona, New Hampshire.
• 51:41
  We are trying for flips in all of those states.
• 51:44
  We're also working to break right-wing supermajorities in North Carolina, which has a Democratic governor, Josh Stein, in Ohio, where we think Amy Acton, who's running for the governor's mansion on the Democratic ticket, has a real shot.
• 51:58
  But if no one breaks the supermajority for her, she won't have real power in Ohio.
• 52:02
  So breaking the supermajority there, breaking the supermajority in Iowa for a potential governorship with Rob Sand, who's a great candidate.
• 52:10
  Those are states where we think we can actually h- make a difference on governing power, where I do think governor's races will be covered, so that's good. You'll be able to see that.
• 52:19
  And then the question to ask is, will they have power? Is there a supermajority in, in the state Senate and the state House?
• 52:26
  I know that that's a little bit of a deep cut for people who are very busy and not focused on politics, so I do just wanna say that there is... There...
• 52:34
  The best giving circle leaders are the busiest people, and, you know, that's why Claire leads a giving circle.
• 52:41
  And the truth is that, you know, one of the things that drives me wild about politics, especially in the fall, is that everyone does want skin in the game.
• 52:48
  Everyone cares about this, but they don't know how, and they don't know where. And usually folks end up giving to a candidate whose name everyone knows and who's in the spotlight.
• 52:59
  And what I say is, "If you don't work in politics and you know their name, they already have enough money."
• 53:04
  So, you know, our other catchphrase at The States Project is, "Friends don't let friends give non-strategic political donations."
• 53:10
  So when you start a giving circle, you're giving people the opportunity to have a strategic giving plan for the moment when they panic, the moment when they get worried, and the moment when they wanna do something good.
• 53:22
  So, so yeah, I just invite people into that world.
• 53:25
  I find it very calming, as a giving circle leader myself, to have something to focus on whenever news breaks that's steady and strategic and long-term, rather than that emotional panic giving that honestly is just exhausting.
• 53:39
  Yeah. So really appreciate y'all engaging with it. Thank you so much for coming in. I know you have a meeting. You don't have a lot of time, so we're glad that you could squeeze in here. And I...
• 53:46
  Every time I talk to you, you're so great about just always reading my, my, my feelings about... You've never come to me asking me to do work or engage when I'm not in the mood for it, and you always seem to...
• 53:57
  I, I don't know what it is. You always seem to know right when I'm ready to do something, and I don't know, I think that's sort of the magic of the giving circles. So we will, we'll push this out there.
• 54:05
  Thank you so much for coming on here. We'll, we will promote- Yeah... your books, too. Any, any questions for us before we let you go? No. I'm just so happy to talk to y'all. It's really fun, and, uh, I had a good time.
• 54:16
  I love talking about things other than politics. I mean, I love talking about politics. Clearly I could go on and on. But it was really fun to, to remember that there's other parts of my life, too. So thank you.
• 54:24
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