Latest / Ambitious Podcast / EP. 24: Empowering Female Founders with Lacey Madison: Strategic Insights into Branding, AI, and Sales

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EP. 24: Empowering Female Founders with Lacey Madison: Strategic Insights into Branding, AI, and Sales · Ambitious Podcast

• 0:08
  Hello friends, and welcome back to Ambitious Man am I excited
• 0:12
  for you to dive in today. We have the most incredible
• 0:16
  guest that we are going to be joined by and in the episode we
• 0:19
  are diving into a very fun structure of this or that.
• 0:22
  And this is where we're going to be unpacking all the common
• 0:25
  practices that we as both female founders see.
• 0:28
  And we are going to be going through the polarizing side that
• 0:32
  we see in business, picking a side and not only tell you what
• 0:35
  it is that we do in our businesses, but also why we
• 0:38
  believe this to be true and why we picked the side.
• 0:39
  So I am so excited today because I literally am buzzing from
• 0:45
  today's interview. It is just we're definitely
• 0:47
  going to be doing a part too because it was that good.
• 0:49
  And so I have to tell you a little bit about today's guest,
• 0:52
  who is the absolutely incredible Lacie Madison.
• 0:55
  So Lacie Madison is the founder and CEO of SUR consulting firm
• 0:58
  SUR Business Academy, Conserve Business Accelerator and the
• 1:01
  Elite CEO Academy, known also better as the Gordon Ramsay of
• 1:06
  female led businesses. Her appetite for disrupting
• 1:09
  industries is always present and also going to be very present in
• 1:12
  today's episode. From hustling candy on the
• 1:14
  playground to becoming APR and social media expert, Lacey is a
• 1:17
  born leader, a straight shooter and a no excuses kind of gal.
• 1:21
  Her passion for sales combined with an innate ability to
• 1:24
  educate, lead in a career in branding and marketing AKA
• 1:28
  inspiring women so they can also forge their own path and get to
• 1:31
  where they want to go. With four businesses created and
• 1:35
  two hitting seven figure agencies as her credentials,
• 1:38
  Hello Boss. Lacey knows what it takes to
• 1:42
  build, market and scale brands to have massive impact.
• 1:44
  And if you guys know me, you know that I never bring on a
• 1:47
  guest who is not rooted in impact.
• 1:48
  She is absolutely not only crushing it when it comes to the
• 1:51
  income component, but absolutely crushing it when it comes to
• 1:53
  impact. So enter Sir, a high level
• 1:55
  consulting agency where she now continues to teach female
• 1:58
  entrepreneurs around the world how to manage their growing
• 2:00
  businesses. After hours, you'll also find
• 2:02
  her sipping an iced coffee or a cocktail, usually in PJS, using
• 2:06
  curse words and globetrotting with her amazing husband and her
• 2:09
  two sons. I really feel like there is no
• 2:11
  other introduction needed. So with that being said, let's
• 2:13
  get into today's episode. All right, you guys, welcome
• 2:17
  back to Ambitious I we were just chatting before we started
• 2:20
  pressing record and I'm so excited for today's episode
• 2:22
  because we love a good controversy.
• 2:25
  We love a good polarizing opinion.
• 2:27
  And today we are joined by Lacey, as you guys heard in the
• 2:29
  bio and all of the juiciness of her history and everything that
• 2:32
  she's gone through. And girl, we're just so excited
• 2:34
  to have you here. Thank you.
• 2:35
  I'm so excited to be here. I love your brain.
• 2:38
  I love everything that you do. And there is just gonna be the T
• 2:41
  spelled today. Yes.
• 2:42
  One disclaimer I want to make guys.
• 2:44
  OK, One thing you have to know about Katie is that we never see
• 2:48
  anything in black and white. We understand the nuances and
• 2:51
  the grayness and the depth of building businesses.
• 2:56
  You know, there are fundamental things that we just believe
• 2:59
  they're a little bit different and they're so good to talk
• 3:01
  about because different experiences, different lenses of
• 3:05
  expertise going to give you different things.
• 3:06
  But I want to strike that disclaimer first and foremost.
• 3:10
  Well, I have to give credit where credit is due, OK you
• 3:12
  guys, because Lacey and I were chatting and she was like, I
• 3:14
  have this really cool concept of like this or that.
• 3:16
  Like basically like picking a side and really deciding like
• 3:19
  why we believe that to be true and expanding on that idea.
• 3:22
  And I'm like, I literally could not love us more.
• 3:25
  So when she shot that idea, I was like, let's do it.
• 3:27
  So we drafted this list of like a good 20 something different
• 3:31
  polarizing sides. And so we're going to basically
• 3:34
  go back and forth as it pertains to business, marketing, team,
• 3:38
  all of the good stuff as to why we put our stake in the ground
• 3:41
  as to one belief or another. And really the main thing of
• 3:44
  today is like this is not to say that there's a right or a wrong,
• 3:46
  but really more to have a conversation about why we
• 3:48
  believe certain beliefs to be true, why we hold certain
• 3:50
  beliefs in our business and really unpacking the why behind
• 3:53
  what we do, not just putting out to the world that we do at that
• 3:55
  that way. So girl, anything you want to
• 3:57
  add before we dive into this juicy list?
• 3:59
  No, I'm good. I'm good to go.
• 4:01
  Let's go. I'm ready.
• 4:02
  To go, I'm ready to go. OK, beautiful.
• 4:04
  OK, So this one, we're going to start off real nice and strong,
• 4:07
  OK? The first one being, do you
• 4:10
  believe in showing pricing online or do you believe in
• 4:14
  hiding it? OK.
• 4:17
  Something small, you guys just starting off with something?
• 4:19
  Small this is one thing I'm like Kate, can you show your fucking
• 4:22
  pricing online like I have literally thought this before in
• 4:25
  the past like I think 6 times listen, I am like I said, I am
• 4:30
  either way, I think it depends on the company.
• 4:32
  I think it depends on the business model, it depends on
• 4:34
  the offer, it depends on all the things.
• 4:36
  But I am a firm believer of putting the pricing up so that
• 4:42
  people can move themselves through that buying process.
• 4:44
  But I do, OK, Listen, I do get the concept of like, OK, but
• 4:48
  people have pricing objections, they're going to look at it and
• 4:50
  they're going to see pricing resistance and all the things.
• 4:53
  And by listing the pricing later, then you can move them
• 4:56
  throughout that sales process. I get it, I do.
• 4:59
  But I think that the bias that we attract and the bias that our
• 5:03
  clients attract, they are far more likely to invest in
• 5:07
  something or at least express interest in something when they
• 5:10
  can see that initial barrier first before moving forward.
• 5:15
  But I'm keen to know your thoughts.
• 5:18
  OK. So I definitely have like a one
• 5:20
  mode that I've operated since day one.
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  And I agree, I think that actually until this year, I was
• 5:26
  very much like anti price online.
• 5:28
  And the main reason being I guess like the context of the
• 5:30
  situation that made me feel this way was that I had so many
• 5:32
  private clients that like when I was charging us to say like
• 5:35
  $50,000 for six months of coaching and they were like
• 5:39
  getting on calls, signing as clients and fully telling me if
• 5:42
  I had seen your price online, there's no chance I would have
• 5:44
  signed with you. And I thought I heard that again
• 5:46
  and again. Yeah, because people were
• 5:47
  basically saying the context of the customization of what I was
• 5:51
  going to do for them was something that they couldn't get
• 5:53
  through marketing of one to many.
• 5:55
  So by getting on the console, not being completely
• 5:58
  disqualified out because of price, getting on the call,
• 6:01
  having the conversation, they were like, this is the catalyst
• 6:03
  that put me over the edge, that allowed me to move forward.
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  And so after hearing so many consults of people, because I
• 6:09
  really debated for like a very long time, I was back and forth.
• 6:12
  I wasn't going to do this because I wasn't sure.
• 6:14
  I was like, I, I, I very much see the value in knowing that
• 6:18
  you're going in eyes wide open that you can't afford it.
• 6:21
  Like if something, let's just say is like 7000 and your budget
• 6:24
  was 2, then obviously like this is kind of a waste of
• 6:27
  everybody's time, right? Is everyone's mindset around it,
• 6:29
  which I entirely understand. But the thing that I found with
• 6:32
  the sales consults was the fact that like, people often had this
• 6:35
  preconceived idea of what their budget was.
• 6:38
  And I found myself actually interestingly enough in this
• 6:40
  situation as well, because I went to go invest into like a
• 6:43
  website or a photographer or a brand designer, and I would go
• 6:47
  with this budget that was always like 2/3 lower than I actually
• 6:50
  ended up investing. And so I thought to myself, if I
• 6:52
  had seen that on their website, because I maybe didn't
• 6:57
  understand or maybe get the value from the marketing that I
• 6:59
  needed to, it might have been the thing that told me, oh, from
• 7:03
  what I see in marketing to what I'm seeing in this price, those
• 7:06
  two things don't align to me. And as a result, I'm not going
• 7:09
  to pay it. And so even as it stands today,
• 7:11
  we do not have our like full pricing online.
• 7:13
  And I will say, and I agree with you, I actually think this loses
• 7:16
  a sales. There's no question about that.
• 7:17
  It does lose a sales because for myself, I was even looking into
• 7:21
  planning an event and I was looking at all of these
• 7:23
  different like photographers and all these things and I found
• 7:26
  myself being like, what the hell is your price?
• 7:28
  Because I was like, I don't know what I'm yes, I was like on the
• 7:31
  other client side and I thought to myself, wait a second, what's
• 7:34
  happening here? Because I realized I really
• 7:37
  wanted to see the price because I was like, I don't want to
• 7:38
  waste their time. So to me in the kind of middle
• 7:42
  ground, what I've realized is if someone wants to know my price
• 7:46
  and they message me about price, IE like I know who they are now,
• 7:49
  I can send you price. If you message me on Instagram,
• 7:51
  you're like, hey, how much is private coaching?
• 7:53
  I will send you the price and all the details.
• 7:54
  Now the thing that I basically have is like my qualifier is
• 7:58
  that I want to know what kind of people are being attracted to
• 8:01
  what type of offerings. And so it really helps me to
• 8:04
  kind of know what is pulling in a certain magnet of person.
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  I, by the way, really disagree with the whole like withholding
• 8:11
  price until you get on the phone with me.
• 8:13
  And like only once I put you through the pitch, like I'm
• 8:15
  like, that's so annoying to me, but I think putting it on the
• 8:18
  site, what I've also realized, I don't know if it's the same for
• 8:20
  you, but like some of our offers have changed drastically, like
• 8:25
  in the sense of the price is always changing.
• 8:27
  So that I thought from a consumer standpoint, how are
• 8:30
  they going to feel if one time they go to look at it, it's one
• 8:32
  price, the next six months because of demand, it's gone up
• 8:35
  and say six months later it's gone up again.
• 8:37
  And so for me, it was also this aspect of like, how do I not
• 8:42
  overwhelm consumers? How do I work the middle?
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  So my middle now is not having it on my website or my
• 8:46
  marketing, but also having it basically one message away so
• 8:50
  that they can contact me. And from that point, I have an
• 8:53
  opportunity to have a conversation with them if they
• 8:55
  want it, but I'm also happy to just send it if they're
• 8:57
  interested that way as well. I love that.
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  And I think that stems off such an important conversation of
• 9:04
  trust and credibility in even establishing that barrier,
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  right? Because people feel like they
• 9:10
  can message you to ask about the price because they have enough
• 9:13
  trust in you and your ability to deliver.
• 9:15
  So obviously lead quality is higher and This is why.
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  Then it comes back to that important conversation of what
• 9:21
  is the business model? You seasonal, are you lifetime?
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  What is the price point, which is super, super interesting.
• 9:27
  But you know what, we pretty much run the same.
• 9:29
  I don't put my one-on-one pricing anyway.
• 9:31
  Honestly, I don't even promote one-on-one like you anywhere
• 9:34
  because the barrier to entry is so high that it would just get
• 9:38
  hurt everyone. But if you were someone that is
• 9:40
  running a more seasonal business model, something that requires
• 9:45
  numbers, something that requires people to move themselves
• 9:48
  throughout that bias process without friction, without
• 9:52
  needing to message, then you know your option, right?
• 9:55
  But if you are someone that has a little bit more friction,
• 9:57
  someone that is, you know, at a higher price point, has a more
• 10:00
  intricate, more robust business model, then I would definitely
• 10:03
  look to taking more of Kate's ideology where there needs to be
• 10:07
  some sort of interest just like moving people throughout the
• 10:10
  start of that sales process first before even getting that
• 10:13
  price point. Because like we talked about who
• 10:15
  was I talking about this with the, we don't talk about actual
• 10:18
  offers and the DMS anymore. We go in, we talk about pain
• 10:23
  points, we talk about desires. What are you experiencing?
• 10:26
  What is the process to getting there?
• 10:27
  I literally cannot remember the last time I said, oh, this is
• 10:30
  the offer. What are you interested?
• 10:31
  What is your budget around this? It just doesn't happen that way
• 10:33
  anymore. And I think naturally with the
• 10:35
  way that consumers are buying, we're going to see more adoption
• 10:39
  of either way in different ways. Does that make sense?
• 10:43
  I don't know if that makes. Sense.
• 10:44
  No, totally. Yeah, totally.
• 10:46
  And I mean, I think for me what I really enjoy even on the
• 10:49
  consumer side and not even necessarily being the business
• 10:51
  side of it is actually seeing like a starting point.
• 10:54
  Because I can someone say like I'm going to invest into an ads
• 10:56
  agency or something. I want them to say like minimum
• 10:58
  starting retainer is going to be like 2500 a month or 3000 a
• 11:01
  month plus ad spend. I'd be like, OK, great.
• 11:03
  Like I at least I'm going in somewhat educated as to what I'm
• 11:06
  walking into. And so I think even when someone
• 11:09
  says like 4 figure investment, 5 figure investment, low, high,
• 11:12
  mid, I think you need to give some kind of contacts because if
• 11:14
  someone is coming in completely blind, you're also really
• 11:18
  stacking up your sales process with potentially people who just
• 11:20
  genuinely not even that they don't want your offer.
• 11:23
  It's just more a matter of like they're genuinely not a good fit
• 11:25
  for it. And so I think also at least
• 11:28
  what I've found with the pricing side of things is that brand
• 11:30
  does quite a bit of heavy lifting for you.
• 11:32
  Because if you are somebody who markets in a way that is a
• 11:36
  little bit more of a luxury type brand, there's almost this like
• 11:39
  natural association with the fact that it's going to be a big
• 11:42
  investment. And so I think the one thing
• 11:44
  that has worked in my favor because of being in that type of
• 11:47
  category is the fact that there is kind of this expectation of
• 11:50
  people expecting it to be expensive.
• 11:52
  Whereas I think if I was a different type of brand, my
• 11:54
  perspective would have to change because is if you're going to
• 11:57
  market yourself like a Walmart, people are coming in with a
• 12:00
  certain type of expectation of the offer pricing.
• 12:03
  And so because of that, they're expecting it to be low.
• 12:06
  So that's a question of like how low?
• 12:07
  Whereas for me it's the opposite, which I think is
• 12:09
  people expecting it to be higher.
• 12:11
  And sometimes they're like, oh, I thought it'd be higher than
• 12:12
  that. And I'm like, great.
• 12:13
  And so like it ends up being a positive for the sale instead of
• 12:16
  someone being like, oh, I thought it would be cheap.
• 12:18
  I don't ever have anybody come into our world that expects it
• 12:21
  to be low. That's so interesting.
• 12:24
  Oh my God, there are so many ways I wanna take.
• 12:27
  There's so many, we can go for an hour on the I wanna look.
• 12:29
  But guys, we literally have a list of 20 twos, so we're gonna,
• 12:31
  we're gonna keep it. Moving.
• 12:32
  Oh my God. Segways, this segways into
• 12:35
  brand. OK, so do you believe in curated
• 12:38
  branding? Now this doesn't by the way,
• 12:39
  mean lux or luxury. This just means curated.
• 12:43
  Or do you believe? Or do you like and enjoy more of
• 12:46
  the raw and casual and why? Oh, this is very interesting and
• 12:54
  this is going to go down two ways is that what do I see the
• 12:57
  consumer economy going down and what do I see myself going down?
• 13:01
  I am in a season where I am so over this hyper curated brand
• 13:12
  that we put online. And we also understand that the
• 13:16
  consumer market right now is also feeling the same.
• 13:18
  We're tired. However, in saying that, I think
• 13:22
  that there is a lots of room to still play with curated branding
• 13:26
  in different ways. I think that across the board
• 13:29
  now, our approach to branding needs to change depending on the
• 13:34
  channel, which is interesting because a lot of the time,
• 13:36
  especially up until this point, you have to remember I'm in PR
• 13:38
  communications girly. That's my background.
• 13:40
  My whole job was in communications, right?
• 13:43
  And up until this point, it was very much so brand consistency
• 13:47
  in terms of visual and strategy had to remain the same across
• 13:51
  the board. That is what we've worked with.
• 13:53
  That is the model that we've worked with up until this point.
• 13:55
  Now we are starting to see things change.
• 13:58
  Brand strategy, fundamentally, the actual DNA remains the same.
• 14:02
  Obviously it has to. You can't change that.
• 14:04
  That's the DNA of the company. But the visual and certain
• 14:09
  elements of communication in terms of brand change according
• 14:13
  to the channel. And it's because consumer
• 14:15
  markets depending on the channel change so drastically in today's
• 14:20
  age that it is almost impossible to communicate exactly the same
• 14:24
  across the board now than it was even three years ago.
• 14:29
  The consumer economy 3 years ago was very different than what it
• 14:31
  is now. And so I think that when we talk
• 14:34
  about OK, this or that, Instagram curation will always
• 14:39
  be first and foremost. We have seen time and time again
• 14:43
  people try and stray from this and it does not work.
• 14:46
  Instagram is used as a portfolio.
• 14:48
  It is used as a irregardless of Reels, irregardless of all of
• 14:52
  these things, consumers still enjoy a curated, more edited
• 14:57
  lens of your business, of your life through Instagram than
• 15:00
  anywhere else. For us on TikTok, for example,
• 15:03
  it is the complete opposite. Anything curated in any way,
• 15:06
  shape or form, brand or not, is not performing anywhere near as
• 15:11
  well as something that is not as curated, right?
• 15:15
  Let's say you have a super edited podcast reel.
• 15:17
  That podcast reel is going to do far better on Instagram than it
• 15:20
  is on TikTok. That's not going to say it's not
• 15:22
  going to perform, but it's just going to perform better, right?
• 15:26
  And then it's the same with website.
• 15:27
  The way you present your brand on your website is definitely
• 15:30
  curated. So it just really depends on the
• 15:33
  medium and the type of audience that you are speaking to.
• 15:37
  What I find really interesting when you talk about luxury
• 15:40
  versus not luxury, and I know that the conversation isn't
• 15:42
  about that, is that you have to understand depending on the
• 15:47
  market that you are playing into, the importance of the
• 15:50
  emphasis on curation matters far more.
• 15:52
  Also the industry again matters far more.
• 15:55
  So if you are looking at, you know this is the one problem we
• 15:58
  see with brand is you see a service based brand try and
• 16:02
  brand themselves and market themselves like a D2C brand or
• 16:06
  an e-commerce brand. They are fundamentally different
• 16:09
  business models. It doesn't work when we look at
• 16:12
  the actual brand archetype, it does not work.
• 16:15
  Is your brand curated in terms of its actual brand DNA and its
• 16:18
  structure or is it not? And that is the ultimate
• 16:21
  question that you need to ask yourself and then ask yourself
• 16:25
  Omni channel as well on top of that.
• 16:27
  How does that then change? How does your brand presentation
• 16:30
  and communication change across the board?
• 16:33
  But I would say that is my fundamental belief, playing
• 16:36
  across the even playing field, that in each segment that is
• 16:40
  what I believe to be true. I mean, I definitely, I agree
• 16:43
  with the brand archetype aspect because I think what category of
• 16:46
  brand you're in really kind of naturally determines how curated
• 16:50
  you're going to need to be. Like if you, for example, were
• 16:52
  to walk into a Chanel and it was a disaster and it was giving
• 16:56
  Urban Outfitters type of energy in the sense of like the chaotic
• 16:59
  racks and whatever. That type of experience as a
• 17:01
  consumer is not what you're you're expecting when you're
• 17:03
  investing into that type of product.
• 17:06
  And so I think it's really important to first start with
• 17:09
  when someone's trying to decide like curated versus not curated
• 17:11
  is understanding which archetype or category you're in.
• 17:14
  But I definitely do think and I, I agree with you that there is
• 17:17
  this trend toward non curated. I think people really feel
• 17:22
  exhausted of the constant curation on any platform they've
• 17:25
  been on, like the perfectly aesthetic houses, the perfectly
• 17:28
  curated photos. And I think we are craving that
• 17:31
  real and raw. But I also on the different
• 17:33
  side, the same coin, really think about the fact that, but
• 17:36
  its basic essence when we're looking to achieve something,
• 17:38
  there is this aspect of admiration connected to it.
• 17:41
  And so while we, yes, resonate with some marketing based on the
• 17:45
  fact that it's meeting us where we are, what you have to also be
• 17:47
  cognizant of is the fact that when we are marketing status,
• 17:51
  which is one of the core reasons why people buy, whether that's
• 17:54
  status of, you know, the curation of a home or the
• 17:57
  curation of your images or results or whatever it may be.
• 18:00
  I think that aspect in some way, shape or form is still needed
• 18:03
  because if we don't have that and it's all about being and
• 18:06
  it's all about meeting you where you are, we have to remember
• 18:09
  that's only half of the whole pie.
• 18:11
  And so that's like, OK, well, if we're looking to achieve
• 18:13
  results, how are we showcasing those?
• 18:15
  And so I think in my opinion, the best way to win right now is
• 18:19
  actually to have duality. And I think one of the, you
• 18:22
  know, instances where we're actually seeing this in the last
• 18:24
  couple years be a very easy one for everyone understand is the
• 18:27
  Kardashians, right? Like they were very
• 18:29
  unattainable. They tried to be accessible, but
• 18:32
  for a while it was just like obviously not working.
• 18:34
  And then now you can see brands who are very, very curated
• 18:38
  trying to blend. Like when we saw the whole Sofia
• 18:41
  Ricci thing with her wedding, it was like trying to be the girl
• 18:43
  next door, even though that she's clearly coming from
• 18:46
  wealth. And so I think we also are
• 18:48
  seeing the people who are super curated or are very status based
• 18:52
  going the other direction. And then we also have people who
• 18:54
  are, you know, the kind of non curated who are trying to blend
• 18:58
  in the other side. And so I agree, I think the way
• 19:00
  to win with the curation versus non curation is really
• 19:03
  understanding your audience and your brand, really understanding
• 19:06
  the medium that you're on, IE, like you said, TikTok versus
• 19:08
  Instagram versus other platforms.
• 19:10
  And then also recognizing what you want to have as the
• 19:14
  expectation associated with your brand.
• 19:15
  Because the other example I give people it when they talk about,
• 19:18
  you know, can I really succeed being non curated?
• 19:20
  I'm like, the only example you need is Adam Sandler.
• 19:23
  OK, the only example you possibly need is Adam Sandler
• 19:27
  because like, if he can be who he is and achieve what he is
• 19:30
  dressing like that, but dressing like that, so can you, right?
• 19:34
  And so the idea of like, I need to be having like certain bags
• 19:38
  or look a certain way, or can I have a top, not bun and be in my
• 19:40
  sweats and make millions. I'm like, yes, you can.
• 19:43
  But I think the main thing is that you're doing so by
• 19:46
  decision, by strategy to your point, not by default of, oh,
• 19:51
  this kind of just happened to be this way.
• 19:53
  It's something that should be rooted in intention.
• 19:56
  And so I think asking yourself what your strategy is around
• 19:59
  brand really is like the larger question to ask.
• 20:02
  Absolutely. And like it comes back to that
• 20:03
  consumer piece, right of you present who you attract.
• 20:09
  And you know what, I'm going to go off that segment for a
• 20:12
  second. I want to return back to Set
• 20:14
  active. Set active does this so well.
• 20:19
  The way that the Q rate brand across each of their channels
• 20:22
  and each of their mediums is chef's kiss.
• 20:25
  And if they're, if you were in the D2C landscape, they're
• 20:27
  definitely someone I would just look at understand their model,
• 20:30
  understand their marketing model, look at how they have
• 20:32
  shifted lenses. There is another company that
• 20:35
  did this extremely well. It was a superannuation company
• 20:38
  and I'm so sad I can't find it. I'll need to send the link or
• 20:43
  just talk about it somewhere else.
• 20:44
  But they obviously had very different viewerships based on
• 20:47
  medium. So they were doing billboards
• 20:49
  for like older more senior people, still television for
• 20:51
  more senior people. They had Instagram for more
• 20:54
  millennials and then they had Tick Tock for Gen.
• 20:56
  Z. The way that they curated brand
• 20:59
  and brand voice and communication.
• 21:01
  Remember so much of brand and so much of curation is part of
• 21:04
  voice. It's how we actually
• 21:05
  communicate. And how you communicate depends
• 21:08
  on the audience. And so the way that they just
• 21:10
  did that, I have to send you the link because I can't remember
• 21:13
  the name of it, but it was beautiful.
• 21:14
  And your brain, I wish I had your brain when it comes to
• 21:20
  analogy and when it comes to examples, my brain doesn't think
• 21:23
  that quick. I'm not that witty.
• 21:25
  I'm not that inclined to just be like, oh, let me just pull this
• 21:29
  idea and talk about this. It's so interesting to obviously
• 21:32
  hear, podcasts aside, in first person because I've never seen
• 21:36
  you just rattle and ramble like this before.
• 21:38
  Which is. That is one thing I will tell
• 21:40
  you I have. I've got analogies out the
• 21:42
  wazoo. You need analogies or examples
• 21:44
  I'm your. Girl, Oh my God, I love it.
• 21:45
  And that's why I'm like sitting here.
• 21:46
  I'm like, Oh my gosh, I wish I thought of that.
• 21:49
  But yeah, I think we're very much so on the same page that.
• 21:52
  Yeah, yeah. All right, let's move on.
• 21:55
  Alright girl, many chat and automated messaging or manual
• 22:00
  personalized messaging. I am so excited to see your
• 22:06
  belief on this I. Can't wait.
• 22:08
  OK, listen, I am so sorry, but I I smell your fucking mini chat
• 22:15
  1000 miles away and it gives me the ick.
• 22:18
  It gives me the ick 10,000% time or whatever the heck.
• 22:22
  I cannot stand it. And The thing is, it's like
• 22:25
  there are certain places where I think mini chat has its just
• 22:29
  like its capability. And I think that when a consumer
• 22:33
  is opting in absolutely, like when there is a very clear
• 22:36
  option for a freebie or to further them into the funnel,
• 22:39
  there is a place for it. But the way the way that people
• 22:42
  are using it to nurture community is slimy to me.
• 22:46
  And I will just say it as it is because using robots to nurture
• 22:51
  a community defeats the purpose of nurturing a community.
• 22:54
  Like you have to remember when you're in business, you're in
• 22:57
  the business of people. You're P2P right person to
• 23:00
  person. And so with that, I still spent
• 23:04
  to this day. I actually had someone messaged
• 23:06
  me today and she was like, do you handle all these accounts?
• 23:08
  And I was like, yeah, girl, I do because this one to one
• 23:12
  interaction with me is part of my job as a business developer,
• 23:18
  right? And you have to remember your
• 23:19
  role changes as you grow throughout a company.
• 23:22
  Right now, you're in the thick of it.
• 23:23
  OK? If you're a little bit early on,
• 23:24
  you're in the thick of it. You're in the weed, you're doing
• 23:26
  all the things. Eventually you will get to a
• 23:28
  place where you have the support and the mechanisms in place to
• 23:32
  really hone in on what your role is in the company.
• 23:34
  And one of those roles for me is people, OK, developing people,
• 23:38
  founders, investors, all other things.
• 23:40
  The other thing is development. The other thing is nurture.
• 23:42
  I am the face of the brand. That's where I sit, that's where
• 23:44
  I stay, that's where I play, that's it.
• 23:46
  Everything else gets taken care of.
• 23:48
  Now, I still spend to this day, at least at minimum an hour a
• 23:53
  day, going through, speaking to new followers on accounts,
• 23:57
  messaging old ones, nurturing relationships.
• 23:59
  And that's at minimum because that is my job.
• 24:02
  And so I truly believe that if you are someone that uses many
• 24:07
  chat as a nurture tool, something to build
• 24:11
  relationships, something to introduce relationships in the
• 24:14
  long run, do I foresee that working for you the way that you
• 24:19
  wish it to? No unless you're Jenna Kucha or
• 24:24
  Natalie, whatever her name is, founder of Boss Babe.
• 24:27
  All of these people that have completely autumnized and
• 24:31
  dehumanized their process. Unless you are that and you can
• 24:35
  rely on your systems and you are willing to spend a house deposit
• 24:39
  every month to spend in ads, it's not for you baby girl.
• 24:44
  Yeah, I really have nothing else to add to that almost because
• 24:48
  exactly what I would say. I agree.
• 24:51
  I mean, I think the many chat aspects, like say someone is
• 24:54
  like you said, messaging you for your freebie or something like
• 24:56
  that. And you're like, I feel like I'm
• 24:57
  sending out 1,000,001 links. Like I've had, you know, clients
• 25:00
  who have launches and things like that and they have people
• 25:02
  who like DM this word and then it sends them a link for
• 25:04
  something. It's like in that instance and
• 25:05
  you feel like you're kind of basically doing an admin thing,
• 25:08
  yes, because there's so much repetition of the exact same
• 25:10
  thing, then yes, that makes sense to send a link to
• 25:13
  somebody. Sure.
• 25:14
  But I so I so agree with you because I think people are using
• 25:17
  this as an opportunity to create community, to create connections
• 25:21
  and they're wondering why it's not working when meanwhile the
• 25:25
  main reason it's not working is because you're trying to ask, as
• 25:28
  you said, a robot to do something that a human is
• 25:30
  supposed to do. And so I think, you know, the
• 25:32
  manual messages, while people think, oh, it's not scalable is
• 25:35
  the number one thing that I hear.
• 25:36
  Like it just doesn't feel scalable.
• 25:38
  And I'm like, it's the depth aspect that's actually going to
• 25:42
  make it scale, not necessarily just the width of how many
• 25:44
  people you message. And so I think the whole like
• 25:46
  day and age of messaging 300 people is not really how you're
• 25:50
  going to win anymore. It's the 30 or the, you know,
• 25:53
  whatever it is 60 people that you're messaging and the depth
• 25:55
  that you have with those conversations and connections
• 25:57
  that are actually going to build community and actually build the
• 25:59
  conversions that you're looking for.
• 26:01
  And so I think to me, truthfully, as you said, like I
• 26:04
  think it's laughable to me how many people are so quick to be
• 26:08
  like, how do I automate this? How do I automate this?
• 26:10
  And I'm like, your desire to automate this is going to be the
• 26:12
  thing that cannibalizes its success because you're basically
• 26:15
  trying to say, make it into a system before you've really
• 26:17
  earned the right to do that. And so I think to your example
• 26:21
  of Jenna Kutcher and things like that, I think your audience gets
• 26:23
  to such an enormous size. Say you're like a Tony Robbins.
• 26:28
  You're not expecting Tony to send you a voice note.
• 26:30
  But you know, another example of this that I think of quite often
• 26:33
  is Gary Vee, because he has really created the structure of
• 26:37
  intimacy at scale. And so I think, you know,
• 26:40
  scaling the unscalable is really the best way to grow because
• 26:43
  everybody is dying for that intimacy and connection now.
• 26:46
  And so the idea of like, I'm going to put them through many
• 26:48
  chat and that's going to be the thing that helps me to grow the
• 26:51
  business. I'm like, yes, if you're sending
• 26:52
  a link, but truthfully it's for anything else.
• 26:55
  I do not advise it because you're trying to systematize
• 26:59
  what is not meant to be a system.
• 27:01
  Well, what's the person going to say?
• 27:02
  I'm like, they could say 1,000,001 different things and
• 27:04
  we can't make sequences for all of these situations.
• 27:07
  And I've seen clients come to me for like VIP days and stuff
• 27:10
  looking to be like, Oh, here's my flower, here's my funnel of
• 27:13
  my many chat. And they're like, oh, it, it
• 27:15
  kind of defaulted here. And it made this mistake here.
• 27:17
  I'm like, because it's dealing with a person and the person
• 27:20
  didn't use all the buzzwords you want.
• 27:23
  So because of that, it's not working.
• 27:25
  So like if I could frankly get rid of it entirely, I would.
• 27:28
  And I would say have your VA or have somebody who you hire send
• 27:34
  the links for you. I would rather be a person.
• 27:36
  If you want to get some of your time back, like you said,
• 27:39
  delegate it. But I think delegating it to a
• 27:41
  system too early. It's just it removes all the
• 27:44
  intimacy of why certain things even are effective in the first
• 27:47
  place. Absolutely, I agree.
• 27:49
  I love us for that. Oh the next one is real real
• 27:52
  good. OK niche or anti niche?
• 27:56
  OK, I am writing. I'm strong on this.
• 27:58
  And you know what? I think you're strong on it too.
• 28:01
  OK. We have gone through seasons of
• 28:03
  business where this massive message will come.
• 28:06
  You need to niche out. You need to niche out multi
• 28:08
  passionate. You need to niche out the thing
• 28:10
  that you need to understand people.
• 28:13
  If you are taking information from someone that says don't
• 28:15
  niche down but they built a business for three years niching
• 28:19
  down before they diversified. What a.
• 28:23
  Coincidence. So what a winky dink, huh?
• 28:25
  Like it just, guys, the fact of business remains true time and
• 28:30
  time again that when you saturate a market in its purest,
• 28:35
  most niche form, you will have a much easier time diversifying
• 28:41
  after the fact if you can saturate that market first.
• 28:44
  Speaking to everybody means you're speaking to no one.
• 28:46
  And that happens time and time and time again.
• 28:48
  And it keeps coming back to that idea, right?
• 28:50
  Of all of these pains, I don't want to, I don't want to seclude
• 28:54
  a buyer's type or I don't want to seclude this audience
• 28:56
  segment. I don't want to miss out on a
• 28:58
  sale. Here.
• 28:59
  You are missing out on more sales.
• 29:01
  You are leaving more money on the table by speaking to nobody.
• 29:05
  And for the longest time, Kate, I will be honest with you, for
• 29:08
  the longest time, I hate it. And you know what I still kind
• 29:11
  of do as a marketer, I still hate the idea of an ICP for so
• 29:15
  many reasons. Like I just think there is so
• 29:17
  much nuance to a consumer that cannot be fit into an ICP.
• 29:21
  However, where I think that Icps thrive is understanding the core
• 29:27
  transformations, the core desires, the core symptoms and
• 29:30
  pain points. When you can get clear on those
• 29:33
  core things and remember, you can only find a core few things
• 29:37
  If you're not speaking to everyone, you have to choose
• 29:39
  that one core personality. What are they experiencing?
• 29:43
  Saturate that there are millions of people experiencing your core
• 29:46
  problem. So this the idea that you would
• 29:49
  be leaving money on the table is ludicrous to me considering you
• 29:53
  probably haven't even built a nine figure company yet based on
• 29:56
  that ICP, right. So that is my standpoint.
• 29:59
  You want to make money niche down do the rest later if you
• 30:02
  want tie back to the vision. If you really feel called to
• 30:07
  talk about where you envision the company going, who you
• 30:09
  ultimately want to serve, keep it in the vision, keep it in the
• 30:13
  mission talk about it time and time again bring people on this
• 30:16
  journey. But ultimately, the root of your
• 30:18
  marketing, the root of your sales strategy, and the root of
• 30:20
  your comms strategy needs to rely on that core
• 30:24
  transformation, the core desires and the core symptoms, problems,
• 30:28
  pinpoints, whatever it is that you want to call it, and then go
• 30:31
  from there. Because within that ICP, you're
• 30:34
  already segmented. You've got more segments, you've
• 30:36
  got different bias types now you've got different stages.
• 30:38
  There are so many ways that you can get creative and diversify
• 30:42
  with one portfolio. I hate the word niche.
• 30:48
  I like the concept. Of it, but I hate the word.
• 30:51
  I think I hate the word because I think it gets a really bad rap
• 30:54
  in the sense of like people will be like niche.
• 30:56
  It's like I help moms do and that's not like that's like
• 31:00
  primary school when it comes to niche.
• 31:02
  Like if someone is teaching you like that's your I help
• 31:04
  statement of that's niche. It's not.
• 31:06
  And I think to your point, like the way that the example that I
• 31:08
  often think about with this and kind of the way that I explain
• 31:10
  it is F45 because F45IS centered around a stage of problem.
• 31:15
  So it's really for people who are desiring community, who want
• 31:18
  a quick workout, get in, get out, and they really desire the
• 31:20
  connection aspect and not having to think when they walk in.
• 31:23
  But what's interesting about F45 is that you've got when people
• 31:26
  go there, you've got millennials, you've got Gen.
• 31:27
  Z and you've got baby boomers all in the same room, all doing
• 31:30
  the same workout. And then in addition to that,
• 31:32
  you've got people who are paying a premium at all of those
• 31:35
  different ages and you've got branding that really is
• 31:39
  reflective of calling in all different types of people.
• 31:41
  So how is it possible that F45 has one core problem that they
• 31:44
  solve, but they have all different levels of demographic
• 31:46
  of people that they're serving. And the main way I think to the
• 31:49
  point that you made, which I so agree with, is I think it goes a
• 31:52
  little bit deeper, like the the bottom of the iceberg, if you
• 31:54
  will. It's like, yes, on the
• 31:56
  forefront, we're seeing like people who want to get fit, but
• 32:00
  there's different stages of people who go.
• 32:02
  So like there's the person who's like, this is my first class.
• 32:04
  And there's also the people who are wearing weighted vests doing
• 32:07
  God knows what on the box jumps, right?
• 32:09
  So you've got the stages of people.
• 32:11
  But the other thing I think is the main factor to your point is
• 32:15
  that the problem you solve is like the basic understanding of
• 32:18
  quote UN quote niche. I think the real clarity that
• 32:21
  comes in is understanding the different demographics, graphics
• 32:23
  of people, but most importantly understanding the values of the
• 32:27
  type of people that are going to come in.
• 32:28
  Because you just simply solving a problem in general is not
• 32:33
  niche. It's more a matter of
• 32:34
  understanding in the way in which I solve it.
• 32:37
  How does that pull somebody in and in that, are there different
• 32:40
  subsections of either stages or certain types of demographics,
• 32:43
  Right. So again, back to 45, it's male
• 32:46
  and female, it's all different age ranges, it's all different
• 32:49
  stages of fitness, and yet it works.
• 32:52
  So technically because of our classic understanding in the
• 32:56
  online world of niche, it would hazard to guess that it
• 32:59
  shouldn't work as a model because it's not one person, one
• 33:02
  age 1, whatever. And again, I think the reason
• 33:05
  that it works is because they've built brand, they understand
• 33:07
  their values, how to effectively market those and recognizing
• 33:11
  with all the different people that can be served with this
• 33:13
  problem solved. Who are those people and what
• 33:16
  are they desiring and looking for?
• 33:17
  And they use the problem that they solve the values they have
• 33:20
  at the forefront instead of the person when they think about
• 33:23
  ideal client. That is such a good example and
• 33:26
  it comes back to that then previous discussion that we just
• 33:29
  had on brand. You can have one ICP, right?
• 33:34
  Different stages, and you have to understand that different
• 33:37
  demographics hang out in different places.
• 33:39
  So then you're able to even niche down even more per
• 33:43
  platform, per medium, because you understand where that
• 33:47
  consumer is actually hanging out, how to speak to them, and
• 33:50
  then target your communications accordingly.
• 33:52
  Obviously, the more robust your channels are, the more robust
• 33:55
  that strategy becomes. But even in this discussion you
• 33:58
  can see how clearly one ICP and one set of transformations
• 34:04
  desires whatever it is, understanding your distinction.
• 34:07
  There is so much room to diversify from that one thing
• 34:10
  before you were even looking at further diversification from the
• 34:13
  root to ICP. Yep, Yep, absolutely.
• 34:16
  That's all right, girl #5. Yeah.
• 34:19
  Batch and content or making it in the moment.
• 34:23
  Oh, I was just speaking about this the other day.
• 34:26
  I it's up to you, like you as the founder, it is just up to
• 34:32
  you. Like I go through seasons of
• 34:33
  life where I need to. I don't have a choice.
• 34:37
  I need to batch content. Yeah, I go through seasons of
• 34:39
  life where I need to be on the spot.
• 34:42
  I need to be doing it day-to-day because I don't have the option
• 34:45
  to do otherwise. And so I think it really comes
• 34:48
  back to, and it takes self-awareness for one to
• 34:51
  understand what you need to do and a deep understanding of a
• 34:54
  few core things. One, you need to understand what
• 34:58
  the strategic long term plan is. And I know that people, people
• 35:02
  always look at me, my clients look at me like, why are you
• 35:04
  talking about this? I'm talking about a content
• 35:06
  plan. Like why are we talking about
• 35:07
  this strategic long term plan? And I have to keep coming back
• 35:10
  to the fact is that guides your actions every single day.
• 35:15
  When you know what you need to do in a year, you know what to
• 35:19
  do in 1/4, what to do in a month, what to do in a week,
• 35:21
  what to do in a day. Now you have a CEO schedule,
• 35:23
  right? Because you can't get to that
• 35:25
  CEO schedule before you have that point.
• 35:26
  So when you have the direction, you can think clearly and plan
• 35:29
  out your weeks, your days. Now, the other thing I always
• 35:32
  look at is, OK, from that CEO schedule, where do you
• 35:35
  realistically have time to create content?
• 35:39
  How long does that process take? And the truth of the matter is,
• 35:42
  I don't care what anyone says, oh, I take, you know, it takes
• 35:44
  me 3 hours to create content. The truth of the matter is
• 35:48
  depending on your competency level, depending on your
• 35:50
  experience, depending on your background, that amount of time
• 35:53
  to create anyone piece of content drastically changes
• 35:57
  across the board. Full stop.
• 35:58
  Sorry, not full stop because we are having a discussion, but it
• 36:01
  is just one of those things like we have worked what 380 plus
• 36:05
  businesses at this point. That fact remains true that it
• 36:08
  is so diversified across the board.
• 36:11
  And so I ultimately will always come back to what fits into your
• 36:16
  season of life. In this stage of life, where are
• 36:20
  you looking to go and how does this support that?
• 36:23
  And then you can sort of backtrack from there.
• 36:25
  I think that there are certain mechanisms in place and times
• 36:28
  and seasons of life where you just need to change.
• 36:30
  Especially it depends on the business model.
• 36:32
  For example, Ventura, which is one of the start-ups we're
• 36:35
  currently building is very news focused, which means that I need
• 36:40
  to remain incredibly relevant. Like I am up at God knows what
• 36:46
  time in the night. I have I think 120 Google Alerts
• 36:50
  set up for this company so that I can come out depending on the
• 36:54
  keywords. And I have all of the news I
• 36:55
  need to create. It's timely.
• 36:57
  It needs to come out within a matter of days, a week Max,
• 37:00
  right. So my content creation schedule
• 37:03
  for that is on the spot. It's go, go, go first for
• 37:05
  something like SUR, which is a service based company and things
• 37:11
  aren't really as relevant besides pop culture.
• 37:13
  Pop culture is more So what we call things from which are very
• 37:17
  finite segments of time. Over the course of the year, I
• 37:20
  can pretty much batch out content for an extended period
• 37:22
  of time. The only time I'm really
• 37:24
  changing that is if, you know, our content strategy changes for
• 37:28
  whatever reason, all the market changes, the economy changes,
• 37:30
  whatever it is, and I need to change messaging.
• 37:31
  But other than that, I can pretty much batch as normal.
• 37:34
  And so looking at the different business model, looking at the
• 37:37
  consumer that you were speaking to and then adjusting your
• 37:40
  content and strategy from there. I went down 10 different rabbit
• 37:44
  holes. But this is the problem.
• 37:45
  But it's rapid fire because I just want to talk about all of
• 37:47
  them. I gotta make sure it's the
• 37:49
  whole. Point I gotta make sure we come
• 37:51
  home all of it all of it makes sense.
• 37:53
  I think like and there's so much guys truthfully going into this
• 37:57
  I was like fully convinced that we're going to be on totally
• 37:59
  separate sides and it turns out that we actually do quite a bit
• 38:02
  of things oops. But one of the things that I
• 38:05
  will say, one of the things that I will say is that I think
• 38:08
  batching content can serve as a backup.
• 38:12
  I think for me, especially with a lot of different business
• 38:16
  owners who either have multiple businesses, maybe someones like
• 38:18
  a new mom or something. With those situations, like I
• 38:21
  have seen even with myself, like content is not my only #1 focus
• 38:25
  every day. Frankly, it's one of the last
• 38:27
  things on my list aside from just documenting what I'm doing.
• 38:30
  I'm not thinking about like, did I get a post up today?
• 38:32
  That's not the center of my day anymore.
• 38:34
  And so one of the first things that I actually got help with
• 38:37
  was getting content out because I was like, I can't have this be
• 38:40
  the number one problem that I wake up to solve.
• 38:42
  But I think that you're absolutely spot on that there is
• 38:45
  actually a downside to batching too much because you lose the
• 38:48
  relevancy of some of either the trends of what's happening or
• 38:51
  the pop culture, as you said. And it also is very much, I
• 38:53
  agree, depend on the type of industry that you're in.
• 38:56
  Because as you said, if you're in like a news type of industry,
• 38:58
  of course, you can't batch any of this.
• 39:00
  It's based on what happened, you know, a couple hours ago.
• 39:02
  So I do think it's contextual to the type of business.
• 39:05
  I do think it is, you know, a balance of trying to have the
• 39:08
  duality of what can be static and pre created versus what can
• 39:12
  be a little bit more trend and more relevant.
• 39:14
  But I do think that the number one advice that I would give to
• 39:16
  everybody is to really as to your point, create a system that
• 39:19
  allows you to consistently get the content or the marketing
• 39:23
  that you're looking for. And more than anything, always
• 39:25
  having a Bank of something to rely on.
• 39:27
  So you never feel that you're kind of at the beck and call of
• 39:29
  marketing. Because I think for myself, one
• 39:32
  of the biggest things that I emphasize for people is like
• 39:34
  just never feeling like that is your #1 focus of a day or even a
• 39:37
  week. Like, obviously, yes, you build
• 39:39
  in your structures, but like, say you get sick or you just
• 39:41
  don't even feel like it or something happens in the
• 39:43
  business and it pulls in a different direction.
• 39:45
  It means that you're not taking your foot off the gas like it's
• 39:47
  still going out regardless. And so I would say, you know, if
• 39:51
  you're like, hey, I make stuff better in the moment or maybe I
• 39:53
  love to batch. Like for me, I am definitely a
• 39:56
  batch person like this. I don't even know.
• 39:58
  These podcasts come out like six months later.
• 40:00
  There's a huge pipeline, but it's mainly because I like
• 40:03
  content to feel like something that I can.
• 40:06
  And again, it depends on the medium to your points.
• 40:08
  Like for a podcast, if it was something where I was updating
• 40:11
  you on my life at the front of every episode, then yes, it's
• 40:13
  going to be obviously a much shorter timeline.
• 40:15
  And I have peers that they do a podcast and it comes out two
• 40:17
  weeks later. The reason that I did it this
• 40:19
  way is because I just never wanted to feel like content was
• 40:23
  something that was controlling me, but more that I controlled
• 40:25
  it. And so again, I think it's
• 40:27
  really contextual to the type of business.
• 40:29
  And I think if anything, my advice would just be to have
• 40:31
  that bank for yourself. So when you get into a sticky
• 40:33
  situation, you're not feeling like, I don't feel like
• 40:35
  creating, but I have to create instead.
• 40:37
  Like when you have that momentum, lean into it and get a
• 40:40
  big Bank of stuff built up so you have something to rely on.
• 40:43
  I love that. I'm going to ask you a question
• 40:45
  today, OK? Yeah, because I want to go on
• 40:48
  this content piece. Do you?
• 40:50
  And I think this is something we're going to actually have an
• 40:52
  opposing opinion on, but OK, do you believe that the content is
• 40:59
  integral to marketing and selling your business in today's
• 41:02
  market? Or do you feel that there are
• 41:07
  still other ways to successfully that just leaves too much room
• 41:11
  for Gray? Because I know that you're a
• 41:13
  Gray person like me, but you get what I'm trying to say, right?
• 41:16
  Yeah. Do you have to be like non-stop
• 41:18
  marketing in order to generate sales in that?
• 41:21
  No, I don't like, I think that marketing and content makes it
• 41:24
  very easy, but I don't necessarily think that it has to
• 41:27
  be the way. My thing that I tell people is
• 41:30
  like, if you're not going to in a front facing way, market
• 41:33
  yourself, that's totally fine. But you need to make sure that
• 41:36
  you have another pipeline, another another way that
• 41:38
  actually does generate the outcomes that you want.
• 41:40
  And so for example, like I was talking to someone this morning
• 41:43
  and they've built a very successful referral based
• 41:45
  business. Like they literally do not
• 41:47
  really market themselves at all. And so there's ways to structure
• 41:50
  businesses that have nothing to do with content, But I think the
• 41:52
  the important thing for people to recognize is that each one
• 41:56
  has its pros and cons. So for example, the pros and
• 41:58
  cons of a social media business would be the fact that I'm
• 42:00
  posting and my social media account gets deleted.
• 42:02
  Well, guess what? I got deleted.
• 42:04
  So in that instance, something like a referral based structure
• 42:07
  would have been the thing that saved me.
• 42:09
  And so for me, I think just kind of like you talk about
• 42:11
  diversifying platforms, I believe in diversifying models
• 42:14
  because I think if you were only using one type of model to grow
• 42:17
  your company, it's extremely volatile in the sense of that
• 42:20
  something changes, your company basically becomes obsolete.
• 42:23
  This is annoying because I have nothing else.
• 42:27
  The answer that I. Wanted on my cake look at us go
• 42:31
  of one actually on that point and I talk about this all the
• 42:35
  time. We talk about quadrants, right?
• 42:37
  And then when people hear me talk about quadrants like I
• 42:41
  physically cannot do more than what I'm doing and I have to
• 42:46
  keep re educating on the fact that it's not about doing more,
• 42:50
  it's about re optimizing the time that you are currently
• 42:52
  spending. If you are spending 30 hours a
• 42:55
  week on content that is not producing sales, my advice to
• 42:59
  you is that to give up on that content.
• 43:01
  But let's make that 5 hours of one data analysis.
• 43:05
  Let's look at why it stopped working and let's fix that up
• 43:07
  while we're doing. Because people don't understand
• 43:10
  the concept of a transition period, right?
• 43:12
  They think if I make a change, then the output changes
• 43:14
  immediately after. But when we look at systems,
• 43:16
  there is a stock, there is an input and an output.
• 43:19
  You can change the input drastically, but the output can
• 43:22
  take decades. It's like think of the ozone
• 43:24
  layer, OK, we've made a hole in the fucking ozone layer.
• 43:27
  It's there. It's not going anywhere, OK, So
• 43:29
  even if we were to cut all pollution to death, it would
• 43:33
  take centuries to fix that, longer than decades, even though
• 43:37
  we've changed the input straight away.
• 43:39
  And so I want you to think about the same thing.
• 43:41
  With any change in system that you make inside of your
• 43:43
  business, there will be a transition period each and every
• 43:47
  time. So while you are transitioning,
• 43:49
  while you are looking at the data, while you are changing
• 43:51
  your content and marketing strategy, remember, marketers
• 43:54
  are good at what they do in the sense that they will make a
• 43:57
  promise. They can, most of the time they
• 43:59
  can fulfill it, But a lot of people will tell you that if you
• 44:01
  just make this one change, you'll make sales in 24 hours.
• 44:04
  We've seen that play out time again.
• 44:06
  However, I, I don't like that way in marketing because there
• 44:11
  are still a massive portion of companies that are doing
• 44:15
  phenomenal things, that are doing all the right things,
• 44:17
  making all the right changes and don't see those changes in 24
• 44:21
  hours. The audience, that's their
• 44:22
  market, their business needs more time to warm up to that
• 44:26
  shift, to warm up to that change.
• 44:28
  And that is OK. You're not doing anything wrong
• 44:30
  because of it. But anyway, coming back now,
• 44:32
  it's my rabbit brain. It's everyone's like, oh.
• 44:34
  No, I agree. And I think it's important for
• 44:36
  people to remember the compound effect because I think if you
• 44:39
  think about a company creating a profile, deciding to put up two
• 44:43
  posts and starting to sell it to you, ask yourself how you feel
• 44:45
  about them now. And so for me, I think the same
• 44:47
  thing is true when it comes to marketing.
• 44:49
  Like there's a lot of marketing out there that says, like, you
• 44:51
  put up this post or you create this thing and boom, your
• 44:53
  business blows up. And frankly, if it was that
• 44:56
  simple to do at scale ongoing, then like there'd be a lot of
• 44:59
  massive companies. So I think the thing that's
• 45:02
  important to remember is that like marketing really is to your
• 45:04
  point earlier about trust building and community and
• 45:06
  connection. And so, yes, if someone wants to
• 45:08
  approach their platform of their marketing, the transaction that
• 45:11
  there's a lot of transactional things that I can do.
• 45:13
  But if you're rooting your principles and your strategy and
• 45:16
  actually creating a brand and community and a quote UN quote
• 45:18
  reputation, someone who actually cares about their reputation
• 45:22
  wouldn't press that button because it's really only with
• 45:24
  their own interest in mind, not their community's interest in
• 45:26
  mind. And so I could not agree with
• 45:28
  you more. OK.
• 45:30
  Sales calls or closing over messages.
• 45:34
  Oh OK now you talk about DM selling a lot.
• 45:40
  Sorry. I feel like I have an idea of
• 45:43
  what I would think you would say, but you have consistently
• 45:45
  surprised. Yeah, I think this game is
• 45:47
  better because you don't know. We don't know each other's
• 45:50
  answers. So I'm like, it's like poker.
• 45:52
  I'm like, what is she going to do?
• 45:55
  Listen, I'm going to speak to people that are maybe struggling
• 46:00
  with sales a little bit more right now.
• 46:02
  The fundamental process of selling is the same irregardless
• 46:06
  of the platform. It comes back to skills, it
• 46:10
  comes back to processes time and time again.
• 46:12
  When we look at the skills for being an amazing salesperson,
• 46:16
  we're looking at communication, listening or reading between the
• 46:19
  lines and non verbal communication, but looking at
• 46:22
  repetition, right? So these are the things that
• 46:26
  truly make for a great salesperson.
• 46:28
  So it doesn't matter if you're doing it on a call or in the
• 46:30
  DMS, if you cannot navigate a person and communication
• 46:35
  properly at the start, it's not going to work irregardless.
• 46:39
  However, let's say you are good at those things, all right?
• 46:42
  Well, let's say you're good enough to make a sale, right?
• 46:47
  If you are someone that has started a business and not
• 46:50
  started with sales calls, I highly caution that approach to
• 46:56
  business. Yeah, because.
• 46:59
  One, you need to understand how people work on a very intimate
• 47:04
  level. So the only way to do that is
• 47:06
  controlled exposure. You can only bring that process
• 47:10
  into a more streamlined platform like DMS when you've established
• 47:16
  something first, when you've established a cadence, once
• 47:18
  you've established how to read between the right, once you've
• 47:21
  worked on your skills, can you actually translate that over?
• 47:23
  So I would say at the start, get on as many fucking sales course
• 47:28
  as you can. And that is per business.
• 47:32
  And like this is The thing is people think, OK, well, I built
• 47:34
  a good business before I know how to do it.
• 47:36
  It's going to work for the next one.
• 47:37
  Let me tell you now, OK, starting Ventura again, like you
• 47:40
  have to remember I'm a multi founder at this point.
• 47:42
  So I've started four companies, scaled 4 companies and now I'm
• 47:46
  on my fifth. Each and every time I've had to
• 47:49
  start over again. Each and everyone had a
• 47:51
  different business model. Each and everyone.
• 47:52
  I had to relearn the consumer. I cannot learn the consumer
• 47:56
  simply by looking at content or simply by speaking people in the
• 47:59
  DMS. I need to get on calls.
• 48:00
  I need to speak to you one-on-one.
• 48:02
  There needs to be more open interaction that is centralized
• 48:05
  and inside of a focus group, right?
• 48:07
  And you do that time. Time.
• 48:08
  Yeah. Once you've solidified that,
• 48:10
  once you understand your process, once you've built your
• 48:12
  skills, then you can translate that and look at what that looks
• 48:14
  like at scale. Again, they're the same thing,
• 48:18
  but the skills required need to be developed first.
• 48:21
  Yeah, I agree. I think that the thing that
• 48:23
  really helped me going into the business was the fact that I was
• 48:26
  a high ticket phone closer because for me, I was like I was
• 48:28
  doing just so much volume of calls.
• 48:31
  So for me, I was like, oh, OK, I really know the rhythm here.
• 48:34
  And then when I took that into my own business, I still
• 48:36
  continued that rhythm, as you said, to kind of like really
• 48:38
  make sure that I was feeling out what it was going to look like
• 48:40
  for my market. But then really, frankly, like
• 48:43
  the DM process to me is really a duplicate of the sales process
• 48:46
  on the phone. But I think that if I could
• 48:49
  really answer this truthfully, if I had the capacity and like,
• 48:52
  I will not hire a closer until someone tackles me to the ground
• 48:55
  because I love sales. But if I like, I love it like I
• 48:59
  will, I will literally with the last thing you're going to peel
• 49:01
  my fingers off of it because I'm obsessed with it.
• 49:04
  And I'm obsessed with it because I think, you know, to me,
• 49:06
  selling is a little bit different than maybe people
• 49:08
  might think about it as, but I really just like connecting with
• 49:11
  people and I want to like chit chat with people and be able to
• 49:13
  understand like how I can help you and just really get honestly
• 49:16
  behind the curtain of your business.
• 49:17
  And for me, if I could have it my way, I would have all calls
• 49:21
  because I love them. And I think that they're not
• 49:23
  only helpful for the consumer and the person who's looking to
• 49:25
  purchase to really get a scope and understanding of what
• 49:28
  they're investing into, but it's also just like so incredible for
• 49:30
  your skill set to be sharpened. It's so incredible for market
• 49:33
  research. It's so good for just so many
• 49:35
  different things. But I think the DM process for
• 49:38
  me at least came kind of from a place of definitely capacity in
• 49:42
  a sense of that I wanted to do calls, but I just could not do
• 49:45
  calls with everybody. And I was like very at that
• 49:47
  moment really opposed to getting any help with it because I was
• 49:49
  like, I want to be in it. But I think when it came to
• 49:52
  messages as well, what I started to see happen was that the
• 49:54
  market was really pushing, not getting on calls in the sense of
• 49:57
  like the consumer was the one actually more than myself who
• 50:01
  was saying like, no, I don't want to get a phone call, just
• 50:02
  give me the information. And so that moment for me was
• 50:05
  kind of an interesting pivot because it showed that if I
• 50:08
  didn't move in my approach and I was like, no, you have to get on
• 50:11
  the phone with me. What I actually found was it
• 50:14
  kind of broke my paradigm of what I thought sales had to look
• 50:18
  like in order to close. Like people often had this kind
• 50:20
  of preconceived idea of, oh, no one will buy a super high ticket
• 50:23
  offer in the DMS. Like, that's crazy for someone
• 50:25
  to invest so much money. And so when our team started
• 50:28
  closing like $100,000 deals in the DMS over messages, we were
• 50:31
  like, OK, wait, what the hell is going on?
• 50:33
  Because like, it was just such a change to the perspective of
• 50:36
  what we were told was possible. And so then I was like, OK, if I
• 50:40
  explore this and refine this to be able to teach other people.
• 50:42
  Like for the mom who has three kids running around, being able
• 50:45
  to close a deal without having to take an hour out of her day,
• 50:49
  like how supportive that process is.
• 50:51
  And so I think for me, like, I know it's not the point of
• 50:53
  today's game. I would actually say the Gray,
• 50:56
  the middle. And I think because I think DMS
• 50:58
  have a process for us. I think that they have a place.
• 51:01
  But I do think that sales calls and actually talking to people
• 51:06
  about sales and that's going to translate to events.
• 51:08
  It's going to translate to phone calls, it's going to translate
• 51:11
  to all kinds of things. Those skills, as you said, like
• 51:14
  the reason that I audit sales calls for people even still in
• 51:16
  our offers today is because regardless of what kind of
• 51:18
  business you're in, if you can't sell face to face with someone,
• 51:22
  you got a problem. Because if you are selling in
• 51:25
  the DMS, you're like, oh, that feels easy for me.
• 51:26
  Yeah, it would feel easy if you had three hours to craft a
• 51:29
  message on what you want to say. The skill set, as you said, both
• 51:32
  verbal and non verbal of being able to communicate the value of
• 51:36
  an offering and close a deal is just a skill set that every
• 51:40
  single entrepreneur has to have. And so I agree, I think that you
• 51:44
  have absolutely no right to be going into DMS or making an
• 51:47
  automated or, you know, framework or a process of this
• 51:51
  until you've really mastered the intricacies of selling, which in
• 51:54
  my opinion, to your point, I so agree with you, only happens to
• 51:57
  repetition. Absolutely.
• 51:59
  And you know what, the answer to this guy's duality, OK, when we
• 52:03
  look at the perfect example of this is, I have been trying to
• 52:08
  go to companies, SAS companies, Buzz Sumo and Pitchbook.
• 52:13
  Oh, I can't wait till I get stressed talking about it.
• 52:16
  They keep trying to get me on a fucking demo call.
• 52:19
  I'm like, give me off the demo call.
• 52:21
  Find a different way to show me what this looks like.
• 52:25
  Just give me something else. And this is the thing with sales
• 52:28
  is there needs to be room for agility.
• 52:30
  There needs to be room for leniency inside of your sales
• 52:33
  process to men, to the consumer. Because like you said, and we
• 52:36
  know with, you know, biopsychology, the way that
• 52:39
  females consume, we like less confrontational channels, which
• 52:43
  means things that happen outside of anything that is a face to
• 52:47
  face interaction, right? Anything where we can sort of
• 52:49
  just ease into it, we. Very well may need a Part 2 guys
• 52:53
  because there's just too many the true confidence I had
• 52:56
  drafting this list. I'm like listening to us.
• 52:58
  We both have the gift of gab, myself included, and so I'm
• 53:01
  going to pick some juice ones. I'm going to go toward the
• 53:04
  bottom to. Some juicy.
• 53:05
  OK, OK. Hit us with it.
• 53:08
  OK, kind of on the sales note, objection handle or permission
• 53:13
  based and no pressure. Oh, oh, OK.
• 53:18
  I say permission based and no pressure in this market, OK,
• 53:21
  with our consumers and the buyers type.
• 53:23
  And the reason that I say that is because I'm going to tackle
• 53:27
  it from the fact that objection handling as it's taught today at
• 53:30
  Mass is not the type of objection handling that you
• 53:34
  should be doing in your sales with the market being in the
• 53:37
  shape that it is right now. People are tired, OK?
• 53:40
  People's experiences are very real.
• 53:43
  And there was a point in time where I was like projection
• 53:45
  handle like I was following the scripts, girl, I was, I got
• 53:49
  their scripts, I put them in and I was like, why is no one buying
• 53:53
  from me? That's why I'm because your
• 53:56
  objection handling in a way that doesn't feel good.
• 53:58
  It feels slimy because it is slimy.
• 54:01
  So when you start to ask for permission to explore further
• 54:05
  and like the previous discussion sort of led on to when you
• 54:08
  sharpen your acumen and you sharpen your skill set to be
• 54:11
  able to recognize objections that aren't specifically told to
• 54:15
  you, you're going to have a much easier time handling objections.
• 54:19
  And it really comes back to exposure.
• 54:22
  It comes back to being in more of these sales close time and
• 54:24
  time again. So you understand what the
• 54:26
  actual true objections are. For example, you know, we hear
• 54:29
  all the time objection handling in the sense of pricing
• 54:32
  objections. And I need to ask my partner and
• 54:35
  this, that and the other. There are more fundamental
• 54:38
  objections than pricing or permission that come back to
• 54:42
  fear, that come back to inadequacy, that come back to
• 54:45
  imposter. And so with these objections,
• 54:49
  you have to understand it's very hard to handle those objections
• 54:52
  1 to one with a person that is not ready to handle objections
• 54:56
  like that. Those with the firm, the biggest
• 54:59
  objection we got was fear of change.
• 55:01
  Not one person said fear of change.
• 55:03
  Every person said, oh, you know, it's not the right time.
• 55:06
  The money's not a good fit. And because of those
• 55:09
  communications, we actually found out the real root cause
• 55:12
  was it was too much too quick. I cannot go back and forth in
• 55:16
  the end with someone that is fucking overwhelmed, can I?
• 55:19
  No, I cannot. So I had to change the
• 55:22
  communication strategy front facing to handle objections from
• 55:25
  facing to make sure that we're talking about what that
• 55:28
  incremental change process looks like at scale.
• 55:32
  And so when I look at to answer the question more clearly, 1 to
• 55:35
  one permission mass objection, right?
• 55:39
  Because you can, there is more room to educate.
• 55:42
  There's less pressure, less focus on one central focus,
• 55:45
  which makes it take the pressure off objection handling, right,
• 55:49
  that word. So when you're doing it front
• 55:51
  facing objection handling, no typical way.
• 55:53
  Educate, move people throughout the process.
• 55:54
  Speak to the symptoms, speak to the pain point, speak to the
• 55:56
  desires. That is how you can leverage it.
• 55:59
  But one to one, always ask permission to deep dive further.
• 56:02
  But not just ask for permission, read through the grave because
• 56:06
  that's the only way you're going to be able to find the actual
• 56:10
  objections to handle. Because I'm telling you now,
• 56:13
  price is very rarely one of those things if you are doing
• 56:17
  all the right things in the first place.
• 56:19
  Well, I think it's also like what people hear the objection
• 56:21
  is versus what the actual objection is really that is what
• 56:23
  you're saying. Because I think, you know, like
• 56:25
  I was watching actually a sales consult with like, it was
• 56:29
  basically a bunch of people in the venture capital space going
• 56:30
  back and forth. And someone was pitching one of
• 56:32
  their services in, in this conversation for their project.
• 56:36
  And they basically had said, yeah, like, I just want to see
• 56:38
  if it's in budget. And then, you know, later in the
• 56:40
  conversation, I'm thinking as I'm watching this as an
• 56:42
  outsider, I'm like, what is the budget?
• 56:43
  Like, ask what the budget is. Ask what the budget?
• 56:47
  And so then later in the conversation he goes, yeah, and
• 56:49
  you know, we don't really have a budget, but and I'm like, how
• 56:52
  can it be outside the budget if we don't have a budget?
• 56:56
  So like to me, it's as you said, reading in between the lines is
• 56:59
  such a big piece of really understanding the depth of
• 57:01
  what's going on. And I think when it comes to
• 57:03
  objection handling the pressure approach of like, you know, you
• 57:08
  have to close on this call. Yes, if people are ready to move
• 57:11
  on the call, they'll move on the call.
• 57:13
  But I think because we have such a bad taste in our mouth now
• 57:16
  about the pressure sales approach, as soon as we get any
• 57:18
  inkling of the fact that's what the situation is going to be,
• 57:21
  our guard immediately goes up. And so at that point, we are no
• 57:24
  longer really in an effective sales conversation because the
• 57:27
  person is basically protecting themselves more than anything
• 57:30
  else in the conversation that you're having.
• 57:31
  And so the thing to me when it comes to objection handling is
• 57:35
  not really even a matter of pressure or pushing through it.
• 57:38
  To me, the way that I think about objections is an aspect of
• 57:40
  curiosity. So if someone says, for example,
• 57:43
  you know, like, I don't know, I just, I think I need to think
• 57:45
  about it or I don't know about the price or whatever it might
• 57:47
  be. I'm genuinely just curious as to
• 57:49
  how I can support you. Like, do you need me to send you
• 57:51
  something? Do you want case studies?
• 57:53
  Like what would be helpful for you to feel empowered to take
• 57:55
  that next step? And one of the things I was
• 57:57
  actually talking about with my coach was talking about the
• 57:59
  aspect of safety being the word. And I think people really need
• 58:03
  need to, especially in today's market, feel safe to invest.
• 58:06
  And so when someone is aggressively following up with
• 58:09
  you and aggressively pushing and it's like their timeline and you
• 58:12
  got to move now and all of these like fake BS urgency things,
• 58:15
  when you and I both know the offers going to be there next
• 58:17
  week, in instances like that, you've instantly broke trust
• 58:20
  simply just trying to quote UN quote close the sale.
• 58:22
  And So what I've seen is that the sales cycle of some of the
• 58:26
  sales is taking longer because of the lack of trust.
• 58:29
  They're still going to close, like sales are still happening
• 58:32
  every single day for all of these businesses.
• 58:34
  But the timeline of how they close is adjusting.
• 58:37
  And that is simply based off the fact that people need more time
• 58:39
  to build trust and also to feel safe in the sales process.
• 58:43
  But the way that you can condense that timeline that
• 58:45
  we've seen is literally by just being a total open book and
• 58:48
  saying, listen, whatever I can do to support you the best, you
• 58:51
  let me know and I will give you that.
• 58:53
  Case studies, no problem. Talk show past client, no
• 58:55
  problem. See this on the website?
• 58:57
  No problem. Need a brief on the following.
• 58:58
  Great, sounds great. Whatever I'm hearing, I'm like,
• 59:01
  integrate it. Integrate it because it
• 59:02
  basically means your audience may need planting of seeds to
• 59:06
  help them to feel that they have all the information to feel
• 59:08
  empowered to move. And often times when someone has
• 59:11
  to really aggressively do objection handling, it's because
• 59:15
  there's been to your point earlier when you talked about,
• 59:17
  you know, hitting objections to the mass is IE via marketing and
• 59:19
  things. I think that a lot of the time
• 59:22
  people are handling the objection way too late.
• 59:24
  And that's why when it comes to the sales process, you're like,
• 59:27
  what? They hit me with this, that and
• 59:28
  the other. And so yes, that may have come
• 59:30
  up during the consultation, but to me that tells me that there
• 59:32
  was a lot of lack of handling on the front end which caused that
• 59:35
  to come up in the 1st place. And so I think there's kind of
• 59:37
  this duality, which is, yes, you want to know how to handle the
• 59:40
  sales conversation, but also asking yourself, are you
• 59:42
  effectively handling objections that you're getting on the front
• 59:45
  end to prime people, not only people you're talking to, but
• 59:48
  other people who are going to come into your world about your
• 59:50
  beliefs or perspective on it as well?
• 59:52
  I love that. I want to just really emphasize
• 59:56
  one point that you made. How do you make them feel when
• 59:59
  you're objectively that is the root cause of everything and I'm
• 1:00:03
  sure you get all of the same messages every time.
• 1:00:06
  We were in a sales conversation like pretty much 99% of the time
• 1:00:09
  at this point. The one thing that they say?
• 1:00:11
  Just before they close is wow, I didn't expect you to care so
• 1:00:15
  much or I've never had someone take the time.
• 1:00:18
  I've never had someone, you know, invest so much in being
• 1:00:21
  curious about me and my business.
• 1:00:23
  Yes, it's always said in different ways, but it's always
• 1:00:25
  that root cause. If I've always made them feel
• 1:00:27
  sane and safe, There is no pressure.
• 1:00:30
  There is no this, there is no that and we have to remember,
• 1:00:32
  OK, we have to be cognizant of the fact that many of the
• 1:00:36
  listeners listening to this are in fly to fly.
• 1:00:38
  You're in this desperation mode of I need to make money today.
• 1:00:41
  So you are acting in I need to make money today, which means
• 1:00:45
  there is pressure on your side and you are putting this
• 1:00:47
  internal pressure into the external environment, which is
• 1:00:50
  ultimately chasing people away. And like you said, that will
• 1:00:54
  cannibalize all of the results. I fucking love that saying.
• 1:00:57
  Oh my God, I'm stealing that from you today.
• 1:01:05
  That will ultimately be your downfall.
• 1:01:08
  And This is why mindset is such an important conversation in
• 1:01:12
  sales, in marketing and running businesses, because if you bring
• 1:01:15
  your desperation into that sales conversation, you've lost them.
• 1:01:18
  That's it. And The thing is that it's much
• 1:01:21
  easier to take someone from not trust to trust than not trust
• 1:01:24
  trust, distrust than trust again.
• 1:01:27
  So just nurture that relationship as best you can.
• 1:01:30
  Remove your current situation from their problem.
• 1:01:35
  Just solve their problem, let it be, and then the rest will
• 1:01:38
  follow. Yep, absolutely, absolutely
• 1:01:41
  give. You a juicy one, OK, give me OK,
• 1:01:49
  this is going to be, I can't wait to hear this.
• 1:01:51
  OK, women's versus men's business.
• 1:01:53
  So they're being 2 separate categories of doing business?
• 1:01:55
  Or do you believe business is business?
• 1:02:02
  I told you I was giving you a spicy one.
• 1:02:03
  I told you I was giving you a spicy one.
• 1:02:05
  OK, OK. All right.
• 1:02:09
  In OK. In what context?
• 1:02:11
  In terms of scalability, In terms of establishing product
• 1:02:15
  marketing? In terms of whatever, whatever
• 1:02:18
  comes through for you, OK, there's no box.
• 1:02:20
  OK, I don't even know how to answer it.
• 1:02:25
  I don't know how to answer it. I can go first if you want, no?
• 1:02:29
  Have thought no, I want to go first because I.
• 1:02:34
  Don't want to. OK.
• 1:02:35
  I really feel like I want to gather my thoughts.
• 1:02:37
  I can go first. OK, girl.
• 1:02:38
  Drop it on me. Let me because give me like give
• 1:02:40
  me what your. Gut told you before you tried to
• 1:02:43
  filter it. OK, my gut, he's not going to
• 1:02:48
  say anything helpful to you because my gut when I hear the
• 1:02:52
  word men, I'm like, and this is so interesting, Kate, especially
• 1:02:56
  because a lot of your support system and I'm looking at
• 1:02:59
  stories. OK, I'll see it.
• 1:03:01
  It's men. It's very interesting.
• 1:03:04
  And mine is the complete opposite.
• 1:03:07
  I have run from men in every direction that I can, venture
• 1:03:10
  capital, angels, investors, partners, clients.
• 1:03:15
  I run the other way. And I think that naturally, my
• 1:03:18
  branding has also made it very clear that you do not come near
• 1:03:21
  me, baby girl, you do not come near me.
• 1:03:23
  This is a female space only. I think that it's ultimately
• 1:03:29
  personal preference. It ultimately matters where you
• 1:03:32
  feel safe and what you're building.
• 1:03:34
  For me, I really thrive in understanding my community and
• 1:03:39
  my community really wants that female connection.
• 1:03:43
  And I naturally just call in consumers whose business models
• 1:03:47
  are also based on women. And that's industry agnostic
• 1:03:51
  too. Like when we're looking at the
• 1:03:53
  consumer brands that we work with, it's the same.
• 1:03:55
  They are primarily in the female space and they're looking at
• 1:03:58
  tech companies. They are predominantly started
• 1:04:00
  by women. Although the consumer landscape
• 1:04:03
  changes. However, the market marketing
• 1:04:05
  lens is for women, which means we naturally call in more women.
• 1:04:08
  So that's a very interesting question.
• 1:04:11
  I don't think I've ever been asked that personally.
• 1:04:14
  For me, where I go with my brain is it just depends on you and
• 1:04:19
  the business model and what you feel comfortable talking to.
• 1:04:21
  I think that people that have had experience in corporate are
• 1:04:24
  far more adept to conversations across different genders.
• 1:04:28
  I'm not one of those people and I wish that I was, but there's a
• 1:04:31
  lot of work that needs to be done.
• 1:04:33
  Like I got off a venture call the other day and I cried
• 1:04:38
  because and not because I got any different answers, but I
• 1:04:41
  think because of all of that in a child in me that just is so
• 1:04:46
  terrified of men that I was like they said, no, I'm not good
• 1:04:50
  enough. I'm never gonna be saying.
• 1:04:53
  And you just have to understand that when we're looking at men
• 1:04:55
  versus women, ultimately your marketing and your sales will
• 1:04:58
  change depending on the channel. So if you are marketing just to
• 1:05:02
  women, I I would say you would have a little bit of an easier
• 1:05:06
  time because in terms of the strategy approach to it, you've
• 1:05:09
  got less to think about in terms of delivery.
• 1:05:12
  When you're looking at both ends of the coin, there is more to
• 1:05:15
  think about. You've got different sets of
• 1:05:17
  bias types in how they consume. You've got different
• 1:05:20
  communication strategies, different sales psychology.
• 1:05:23
  So in terms of ease, you'll probably have an easier time
• 1:05:26
  choosing one. You'll probably create, let's
• 1:05:28
  establish a little bit faster product market fit choosing one.
• 1:05:31
  But again, I'm in Gray all of the time because I have seen the
• 1:05:35
  opposite happen time and time again.
• 1:05:37
  So that's where my brain is, baby girl.
• 1:05:40
  OK, so I feel I actually don't know if I'm great, I'm going to
• 1:05:45
  like maybe just decide this after I speak and I'll be like,
• 1:05:47
  that's what it is. I think that I think there is a
• 1:05:50
  difference between men's business and women's business
• 1:05:52
  because like even for myself, I was I was in like a mentorship
• 1:05:55
  kind of thing with someone and I had said, you know, our team is
• 1:05:57
  all female. And so I had said, you know,
• 1:05:59
  like all of us are starting families and kind of in that
• 1:06:01
  season of life. And so there's a lot of mat leaf
• 1:06:04
  situation happening and everyone who listens to my stuff knows
• 1:06:07
  that I've actually never, except for one time, the very, very
• 1:06:10
  early started my business. It was a very short amount of
• 1:06:12
  time. I've always had male mentors.
• 1:06:14
  And so for some people they're like, this is so interesting
• 1:06:16
  because you only coach women. I've never had a female mentor.
• 1:06:20
  I've always had male mentors. So for myself, when I went to go
• 1:06:25
  to this past mentor that I had a while ago and I had said, you
• 1:06:28
  know, like our team is starting families.
• 1:06:29
  What do you think? He was like, well, This is why
• 1:06:30
  you hire men because you're not going to have to deal with
• 1:06:33
  problems like this. And I was like, OK, And that was
• 1:06:35
  the end of my coaching. So basically, you know, that was
• 1:06:39
  its own factor. But OK, what ended, what ended
• 1:06:41
  up happening and kind of like what developed from this?
• 1:06:44
  So the reason I started my business is because I was in a
• 1:06:46
  room where there was not enough women in that room.
• 1:06:48
  And so I was like, OK, there's clearly and more of a need here
• 1:06:51
  for women to really feel empowered to hold space and to
• 1:06:54
  not feel that they're meant to be head in the corner basically
• 1:06:59
  in this Coed room. So then I went into the woman's
• 1:07:01
  business space. And what I actually found was
• 1:07:03
  the contrast that I didn't like, which was the fact that it was
• 1:07:06
  like woman's business. And when I would go into, you
• 1:07:09
  know, certain types of rooms or retreats or things like that,
• 1:07:12
  one thing and then the women were being taught.
• 1:07:13
  Frankly, if I could put it candidly, in some instances,
• 1:07:16
  this is not a blanket statement, but in some instances it was
• 1:07:18
  very fluff. It was like relationships and
• 1:07:21
  sisterhood and things like that. And I was like, I, we need that
• 1:07:24
  and we desire that. And that's something that we,
• 1:07:26
  you know, we discuss, but I think it's like, where am I
• 1:07:29
  going to learn about the team and the leadership and the
• 1:07:32
  management and the finances and like the, the nitty gritty of
• 1:07:34
  what's required here to build a business.
• 1:07:35
  And So what I found was when I saw not all, but some women
• 1:07:39
  teaching women's business, it kind of got put with this big
• 1:07:42
  pink filter over top of it of like, we don't need to talk with
• 1:07:46
  tactical here because it's women's business.
• 1:07:48
  And so there was literally events that I remember buying
• 1:07:50
  tickets to going to one day of the conference and being like,
• 1:07:54
  this is a total waste of money. I'm not doing this.
• 1:07:55
  And so I for myself got really frustrated because I was like,
• 1:07:58
  every time I tried to find someone who was really truly the
• 1:08:01
  duality of masculine and feminine, it felt impossible to
• 1:08:04
  find in a woman. And so then it led me to really
• 1:08:08
  finding truthfully male and like they know who they are, male
• 1:08:11
  coaches who were very much tapped into their feminine.
• 1:08:14
  And so the thing that I now have really kind of like unpacked is
• 1:08:19
  the fact that it really isn't about male or female, but more a
• 1:08:23
  matter of making sure that business in general is
• 1:08:26
  approached from the duality of both.
• 1:08:29
  And the only instance where I do think, you know, the women's
• 1:08:32
  business really comes in is that we need to have acknowledgement
• 1:08:35
  of the fact that women are not doing business the way that men
• 1:08:38
  are. And what I mean by that is as
• 1:08:40
  women, we are, whether we like it or not, and again, gender
• 1:08:44
  roles as they are changing and adapting, we still are very much
• 1:08:47
  homemakers, whether we are the core homemaker or not.
• 1:08:50
  Now, on top of that, we're also somehow in some instances being
• 1:08:53
  the breadwinner as well and have to navigate that.
• 1:08:55
  But then also on top of that, have three kids and make sure
• 1:08:57
  that you're home to raise them and bring them to the bake sale
• 1:09:00
  after school. And so how are we supposed to do
• 1:09:02
  that with a man leading the show telling us how they did it when
• 1:09:06
  frankly, that wasn't their role necessarily in their home.
• 1:09:09
  And so I think in instances where we are getting coached on
• 1:09:13
  the reality of what it looks like, IE the ecosystem in which
• 1:09:16
  we're building the business, that needs to have a women's
• 1:09:19
  approach. Because no one who isn't a
• 1:09:21
  woman, IE who's been pregnant, had kids, done all of those
• 1:09:24
  things, has ever gone through that.
• 1:09:25
  So no one else really, in my opinion, can speak to what that
• 1:09:28
  looks like and how to navigate it.
• 1:09:29
  But when it comes to the business strategy aspect, I
• 1:09:31
  don't think that there should be women's business and men's
• 1:09:35
  business. I think it should be this is
• 1:09:36
  marketing and this is how it's done well and adapt to whoever
• 1:09:40
  the person is you're speaking to or sales or offers or team or
• 1:09:43
  leadership. And it shouldn't be that you're
• 1:09:45
  changing the way that you lead your team because you're a
• 1:09:47
  woman. Yes, you have and you understand
• 1:09:50
  your team and maybe they're more empathetic or the communication
• 1:09:52
  style is different, but I think that's still at the root of what
• 1:09:54
  all management and leadership should be.
• 1:09:56
  And so to me, women's business is about understanding the
• 1:10:00
  ecosystem in which we're building it, not a matter of
• 1:10:02
  adjusting the strategies of how we're teaching business and the
• 1:10:05
  way in which we're executing it daily.
• 1:10:06
  I love the way that you communicated.
• 1:10:09
  That through and through we look at the amount of companies, what
• 1:10:13
  1%, roughly 1 to 2% of women ever so possible $1,000,000
• 1:10:16
  threshold in business despite women owning 42% of companies
• 1:10:20
  across the US. Those are not good statistics.
• 1:10:23
  The great, right, the great in terms of we're actively involved
• 1:10:26
  in the conversation. But to your point, if we keep
• 1:10:30
  filtering the conversation on business education for women
• 1:10:32
  through rose colored glasses, we will never see anything
• 1:10:35
  different. And I think that's why, you
• 1:10:37
  know, figures like you, like me, like women who are actively very
• 1:10:42
  strategic, who are both masculine and feminine, the
• 1:10:45
  support systems that women actually need to move forward so
• 1:10:49
  that we can start to see a shift, start to see a change.
• 1:10:53
  But this brings up a very interesting conversation for me
• 1:10:56
  and something that I'm very curious to know about with you
• 1:10:59
  and your thoughts. But do you believe that women
• 1:11:04
  LED businesses who might be playing more into the women
• 1:11:07
  ecosystem, the female ecosystem? You know, we see these companies
• 1:11:12
  that are building all women teams.
• 1:11:13
  That's great. We love that for you.
• 1:11:15
  Do you think that there needs to be a shift towards duality in
• 1:11:19
  the workplace, true inclusion, true diversification in the
• 1:11:23
  workplace? Or do you believe that just
• 1:11:28
  having women in the workplace is diversified enough?
• 1:11:31
  No, because I think that I. Think the main reason that women
• 1:11:35
  are having all female teams is of the belief that because their
• 1:11:38
  mission is so female rooted that they feel like they're going
• 1:11:41
  against their own mission by hiring men.
• 1:11:43
  And I think instead the conversation really needs to be
• 1:11:47
  about how can we bring in men to this team and what our mission
• 1:11:50
  is and make sure that they're on board with that mission.
• 1:11:53
  Because to me, if we were for example, to say that men can't
• 1:11:56
  be in all a base of women as a team, what that's indirectly
• 1:12:00
  doing is you're just segmenting in the other direction now.
• 1:12:03
  You're just discriminating on the other lens now.
• 1:12:05
  And so I think, you know, yes, there are instances where we
• 1:12:08
  want rooms to be all women. Like for example, my mastermind
• 1:12:12
  that I have is only women. There's no men inside.
• 1:12:14
  And that was to really create a safe space for people to really
• 1:12:17
  feel the space to be vulnerable and have conversations about
• 1:12:20
  things. But like for myself, I coach
• 1:12:21
  men, even though my branding is all female oriented and it's
• 1:12:25
  about changing the stat and all of these things.
• 1:12:28
  I have incredible men that I work with, but the qualifier for
• 1:12:31
  me is what kind of man you are, not a matter of fact that you
• 1:12:34
  are a man. And so I think same thing for
• 1:12:36
  team for me is more a matter of what kind of man are you and can
• 1:12:39
  I support you or can I work with you?
• 1:12:41
  Less of just the fact of the actual like left or right of are
• 1:12:45
  you a male or are you a female is to me like such a side piece
• 1:12:47
  to it, but more a matter of the essence of what is that you
• 1:12:50
  stand for. And so I think even when I tell
• 1:12:52
  people I've had all male coaches the whole time, people say like,
• 1:12:54
  that's so crazy. And I'm like, but The thing is,
• 1:12:56
  it's because of the values that they hold.
• 1:12:58
  And like any of those mentors will tell you that they are
• 1:13:00
  extremely feminine as men. Like they're very comfortable in
• 1:13:04
  the duality. And that's really why I, I feel
• 1:13:07
  that it doesn't necessarily, you know, poke holes in my mission
• 1:13:11
  or change any of what I'm doing here because there's so much
• 1:13:14
  that they bring to the table. And instead, I think we also
• 1:13:17
  have this ability to kind of create an invitation and a
• 1:13:20
  duality. Like I think there's a lot of
• 1:13:21
  natural separation here between men's business, women's
• 1:13:24
  business. Women in a way, are almost
• 1:13:26
  creating their own divide by separating ourselves, right?
• 1:13:29
  And so I think if we can also make an effort to say, hey,
• 1:13:31
  here's what we need as women in business, here's how we want to
• 1:13:35
  operate, here's how we want to do things.
• 1:13:37
  And then creating allies and partnerships on the other side
• 1:13:40
  is much more of a powerful move long term, as you said, to
• 1:13:43
  changing that stat than just, hey, we're going to try to do it
• 1:13:46
  on our own. When truly there's a lot of men
• 1:13:48
  who are very great men in business who don't do it the
• 1:13:51
  typical bro way. But because a lot of women are
• 1:13:54
  closed off to that because of the mindset they have around
• 1:13:56
  their mission, we're really closing a door to so many people
• 1:13:59
  who could be incredible resources for growth.
• 1:14:01
  I absolutely agree. And it's so funny I didn't.
• 1:14:03
  Come true, that realization still to mentors, I have not
• 1:14:08
  looked in the mail route still to investors, I have struggled
• 1:14:12
  in that place. But last year when we're
• 1:14:14
  building the firm, it was the first time, after all of these
• 1:14:18
  other decade in business, was the first time I looked at my
• 1:14:20
  team and I was like, what are we doing?
• 1:14:23
  This is not diversification. This is not inclusion.
• 1:14:26
  This is not how do we expect to go bigger and bolder when we
• 1:14:30
  have one lens, we have one female gaze looking at the
• 1:14:34
  business, looking at our strategy, looking at our
• 1:14:36
  operations. It's bound to go bigger and
• 1:14:38
  bolder when true diversity exists.
• 1:14:41
  It's like when you see statistics, it doesn't say men
• 1:14:44
  or women, it says combination of both that truly receives the
• 1:14:48
  best results. So I love that.
• 1:14:49
  OK, Alright girl, let's that last one.
• 1:14:52
  Yeah, I was just gonna. Say we need a part.
• 1:14:54
  Two, this is good we definitely will have to do a Part 2 because
• 1:14:57
  I think we. Probably got through 10 today of
• 1:15:00
  our like 22 when he's at this list.
• 1:15:04
  I was like my Yappa. Yappa is really gonna struggle
• 1:15:06
  with All right, Why? Why don't why don't you pick
• 1:15:11
  one? Oh my God.
• 1:15:12
  They're just so no pressure they're.
• 1:15:15
  So. Good.
• 1:15:18
  AI. I love a good AI conversation.
• 1:15:23
  OK, cool, I eat those up. OK, let's do it.
• 1:15:27
  OK. So for the last one, OK.
• 1:15:30
  The big old debate, which is very.
• 1:15:32
  Well timed with. Today's culture is using AI or
• 1:15:36
  no AI and why OK using? AI or no AI, I am a true
• 1:15:44
  believer that the future is AI like there is no way around that
• 1:15:50
  conversation and anyone that is ultra resistant to it and cannot
• 1:15:56
  be agile to its importance in the discussion will ultimately
• 1:16:03
  bye bye. That's and it's just so hard to
• 1:16:05
  say because I I know that there are people in my community that
• 1:16:09
  talk to me about being scared of AI that talk to me about I don't
• 1:16:13
  understand it. I don't know how to use it.
• 1:16:15
  I don't know how to leverage it. And besides those one-on-one
• 1:16:18
  conversations, one point as a founder that you should make is
• 1:16:24
  learning, is consuming how to actually function.
• 1:16:28
  Be resourceful enough to go and watch tutorials, to consume
• 1:16:32
  news. Immerse yourself in a
• 1:16:33
  conversation. The only way you're going to
• 1:16:35
  understand something is if you immerse yourself in it.
• 1:16:38
  I think the one conversation we get a lot is OK.
• 1:16:40
  Well, as consultants, should we be using AI in this discussion?
• 1:16:45
  It's a tricky 1. I think that there is a lot of
• 1:16:48
  regulation that needs to be involved in the way that we
• 1:16:50
  leverage AI as consultants. But I will let you know that I
• 1:16:55
  use AI every single day. I will also let you know that I
• 1:16:58
  would not have been able to start up my new company if it
• 1:17:00
  were not for AI, because the way that we now are able to take
• 1:17:06
  data, synthesize data, output data, the way that we are able
• 1:17:10
  to educate ourselves is astronomical.
• 1:17:13
  But then it's also, and this is all in the same point of why AI,
• 1:17:18
  it is also super important to understand that AI will
• 1:17:22
  fundamentally change the business models that will thrive
• 1:17:25
  inside of our landscape. And someone who was at HubSpot
• 1:17:28
  put out a really phenomenal study, I think it was a year
• 1:17:32
  ago, two years ago now on the types of business models that
• 1:17:35
  will thrive when they leverage AI.
• 1:17:37
  And there's a question in there talking about courses or
• 1:17:41
  memberships. Very interesting courses.
• 1:17:45
  People want to learn from you, your expertise, but they will no
• 1:17:49
  longer be looking for education. The duality in this though is
• 1:17:53
  that not enough people know how to actually use AI and let's
• 1:17:58
  talk more specifically ChatGPT to educate themselves public.
• 1:18:01
  And when they do, they don't always trust the information.
• 1:18:04
  So I think it's a much larger conversation for a different
• 1:18:07
  day. But at the end of the day, AI or
• 1:18:10
  non AI, I think irregardless of industry, you should be finding
• 1:18:13
  a way to incorporate AI into your business model in some way,
• 1:18:16
  shape or form. Whether it's to actually
• 1:18:18
  diversify the offerings and improve your offerings or
• 1:18:21
  whether it is to, you know, help with operations, systemization,
• 1:18:25
  automization, whether it is for efficiency, productivity,
• 1:18:27
  whatever that reason is for you. AI will have an important
• 1:18:31
  conversation. And it is more important in
• 1:18:33
  certain conversations over others.
• 1:18:35
  SAS companies, if there are any SAS companies, as I know on my
• 1:18:38
  side, there will be SAS companies listening to this.
• 1:18:40
  The reason you're not getting funding is because you're not
• 1:18:42
  leveraging AI. And the truth is, is that AI
• 1:18:44
  needs to be built into the core of your technology, into the
• 1:18:47
  core of your software to move forward D to C companies.
• 1:18:50
  Data is king. When we're looking at why AI, AI
• 1:18:53
  allows us to synthesize data. If you are not using platforms
• 1:18:57
  that leverage AI to customize customer experience, to
• 1:19:00
  customize usability, to customize UX, you will fall
• 1:19:03
  behind. And there is a really amazing
• 1:19:06
  tool that takes your back end on Shopify, takes the user
• 1:19:11
  experience, what are they clicking through, what are they
• 1:19:13
  not, takes all of that data and personalizes their customer
• 1:19:17
  experience to their usage patterns.
• 1:19:20
  You could never do that with a SAS platform that is not backed
• 1:19:24
  by AI. And so I think that there are
• 1:19:25
  multiple reasons as to why AI is important, efficiency data,
• 1:19:30
  honestly, what else is there a million?
• 1:19:33
  I very much second what you're saying and the way that I think
• 1:19:35
  about. All business creation,
• 1:19:37
  development, everything is that it really falls into two
• 1:19:40
  aspects. Whether it's marketing, sales,
• 1:19:42
  OPS, doesn't matter, which is quantitative and qualitative.
• 1:19:44
  And I think for me A is best used in the quantitative realm.
• 1:19:49
  I think it is a little bit too early and it's infancy right now
• 1:19:53
  to really use it for qualitative.
• 1:19:54
  And what I mean by that, for anyone listening, is the fact
• 1:19:56
  that we really don't necessarily, in my opinion, can
• 1:19:59
  we rely on it just yet for making decisions and really
• 1:20:02
  thinking about. The Gray or the color in a
• 1:20:05
  situation outside of the data alone.
• 1:20:08
  But I definitely agree I think that it needs to be used in
• 1:20:10
  every department of your business.
• 1:20:11
  If you're mapping out a flow of something or a production plan
• 1:20:14
  of something, if you're mapping out marketing copy anything.
• 1:20:18
  But I think the main thing is that people are using it as the
• 1:20:20
  start point, not the end point. And I think your, you know,
• 1:20:23
  point earlier when it came to courses, I actually talked about
• 1:20:26
  this in another episode because I think courses are something
• 1:20:28
  that people are creating left, right and center.
• 1:20:30
  And listen, I do think in this season that they are going to be
• 1:20:33
  something that's will sell for a little while still.
• 1:20:36
  But I agree, I think with the rise of AI, information is no
• 1:20:39
  longer the most valuable asset integration is.
• 1:20:42
  And so I think when you're talking about course versus
• 1:20:44
  membership, if you're talking about, you know, for example,
• 1:20:46
  consultants versus information or learning from someone
• 1:20:50
  education for a long time, like our biggest asset Once Upon a
• 1:20:53
  time was books and Google. And that's just no longer the
• 1:20:55
  case. We at the like at the snap of a
• 1:20:57
  finger can find anything that we're looking for and also ask
• 1:21:00
  it targeted questions to get even more of what we're looking
• 1:21:02
  for in the way in which we you want it.
• 1:21:04
  And so the idea that like education is the basis of value
• 1:21:09
  now is just not the case. And so I think the way that we
• 1:21:12
  approach it, we use it pretty well every single day in our
• 1:21:14
  business in a variety of formats, everything from design
• 1:21:17
  to Chachi, BT, all of the things production.
• 1:21:20
  Like today as you guys are listening to this, we're
• 1:21:21
  recording this on Riverside and literally inside of Riverside,
• 1:21:24
  you can press 2 buttons, one to edit the audio for you and two,
• 1:21:27
  another one to create automatically like 11:50 clips
• 1:21:30
  for you with captions over top of it.
• 1:21:32
  Download it and I can have all of those ready in the next 30
• 1:21:34
  minutes, right? So that was just not something
• 1:21:36
  that was ever available previous to this.
• 1:21:39
  And so I think that the main advice I would give to everybody
• 1:21:41
  is if you're not integrating AI, you will get left behind.
• 1:21:44
  And it's more a matter of understanding in the value of
• 1:21:47
  what you bring to any of the clients that you serve or even
• 1:21:51
  to your business and the way you might be involved in it.
• 1:21:53
  Looking at where can AI be an asset to you and complement what
• 1:21:56
  it is that you do instead of, oh, it's going to replace me.
• 1:21:59
  Look at what it has to offer and then reposition yourself and
• 1:22:02
  what your value really is either to your customers or to your own
• 1:22:05
  business. But I definitely think AI is
• 1:22:09
  something that a business owner either has to get with or they
• 1:22:12
  will get left behind. And that is such an important
• 1:22:14
  conversation of resourcefulness in.
• 1:22:15
  Business. We have been taught up until
• 1:22:17
  this point that starting businesses is easy and it's
• 1:22:19
  cheap. I think people are starting to
• 1:22:21
  realize now that's not the case. You have been lied to.
• 1:22:25
  Not anyone can be a business owner.
• 1:22:27
  Not everyone can. And one of the fundamental skill
• 1:22:32
  sets or just attributes of any successful business owner is
• 1:22:35
  resourcefulness. And it's so hard to say,
• 1:22:38
  especially as a consultant, but I can tell when someone is going
• 1:22:41
  to go past that five year threshold simply by the types of
• 1:22:45
  questions they ask, how frequently they ask them, and
• 1:22:48
  what they are actually doing to learn new information day by
• 1:22:50
  day. These are things that you can
• 1:22:52
  improve, though. This is not me saying if you
• 1:22:54
  don't have these things, then you will not succeed.
• 1:22:56
  No, you have the power, you have the decision to make.
• 1:23:01
  Are you going to stay relevant? Are you going to learn?
• 1:23:03
  Are you going to learn how to be resourceful?
• 1:23:04
  Or are you not? And that's the end of it, guys.
• 1:23:09
  I know what. An episode.
• 1:23:11
  What an episode and. You know what, you guys, we
• 1:23:15
  barely got through half. The list and we are well, well,
• 1:23:18
  I fully told her I was like, we're going to go for an hour
• 1:23:20
  and I'm like, I lied to you. Yeah, we definitely got through
• 1:23:22
  half of the list. But this was actually such a
• 1:23:24
  great conversation because I think that these are just so
• 1:23:27
  many aspects of the different things that people are
• 1:23:29
  experiencing in business in general and the different sides
• 1:23:32
  that they can go through. And you know, whether it's
• 1:23:34
  marketing or sales or offers or team or all of these things.
• 1:23:37
  And yeah, we will definitely be struggling back with a part
• 1:23:39
  because we have some other juicy ones that were on that list that
• 1:23:41
  we did not get to today. So, Lacey, let everybody know
• 1:23:45
  where can they connect with you? Where can they learn more about
• 1:23:47
  all of your goodness? I always say the best place is
• 1:23:49
  Instagram. Follow me on Instagram.
• 1:23:50
  Lacey Madison under score It'll take you everywhere that you
• 1:23:53
  need to go depending on what you need.
• 1:23:54
  And I'm excited. I'm excited for this to air.
• 1:23:56
  I'm excited for everyone to just learn about our brains and how
• 1:23:59
  we work and how we think because there are too many people
• 1:24:02
  telling you facts, their facts, their opinions without any
• 1:24:06
  reasonable logic. And so I think that first of
• 1:24:09
  all, you're one of the most articulate women I have ever
• 1:24:12
  spoken to. I am pure, but I'm Australian,
• 1:24:16
  okay? We are not articulate women.
• 1:24:19
  So anyway, there's that. I think you're extremely
• 1:24:23
  articulate, so I will put that out.
• 1:24:24
  There, I think that you're extremely articulate.
• 1:24:26
  I think who I was editing these videos is gonna say differently.
• 1:24:29
  But that's OK. You know what?
• 1:24:31
  And I embrace that. That is part of the brand.
• 1:24:33
  That is part of who I am. And I'm excited for Part 2 guys,
• 1:24:37
  if you don't, Kate is coming on to my podcast.
• 1:24:40
  The podcast is oh, I am so ready.
• 1:24:42
  It is going to be a. Riot and I am ready.
• 1:24:46
  Yes, give. The listeners a little bit of
• 1:24:48
  the 10. One of your show.
• 1:24:50
  Where can they listen to your show?
• 1:24:52
  So my show is called the Excuse Me So podcast.
• 1:24:54
  It really is about telling amazing stories, right, with
• 1:24:58
  amazing value left behind it. I know we're just making digs
• 1:25:01
  about this on how every podcast format is the same, but I think
• 1:25:06
  because of the the breadth of conversation, we talk about all
• 1:25:09
  things from start up worlds, you know, building, growing, scaling
• 1:25:12
  companies irregardless of industry.
• 1:25:13
  We talk about M&A, we talk about Angel investing.
• 1:25:16
  I think and the reason that I incorporated all of those really
• 1:25:19
  big hefty topics is because not enough women speak about them.
• 1:25:23
  Not enough women are at the forefront of it, especially in
• 1:25:26
  business. We have segments, we have women
• 1:25:28
  that are in M&A, we have women that are in Angel investing, we
• 1:25:31
  have women that are in business. But when we hear a man talk
• 1:25:34
  about it, a man is in M and A, a man is in business, a man is in
• 1:25:37
  Angel investing and that is why he has the net worth of a
• 1:25:41
  billion dollars and why we don't.
• 1:25:43
  And so I think that these are really important discussions to
• 1:25:46
  have. And even when you're talking
• 1:25:47
  about venture capital right now, I have never seen you speak
• 1:25:50
  front facing about venture. And I get it, it's a big
• 1:25:54
  conversation and a lot of people in that space are not ready for
• 1:25:58
  that conversation. So is here to change that.
• 1:26:01
  The podcast is here to change that to make sure we are opening
• 1:26:03
  up doors for true wealth creation for women.
• 1:26:06
  So if you want to tune into all of that topics that are so big,
• 1:26:10
  it's so necessary. Head of I mean, honestly, I
• 1:26:13
  think for the women listening, I can.
• 1:26:14
  Tell you right now she's an ambitious driven lady ready to
• 1:26:18
  get after it and so I highly recommend you guys go over
• 1:26:20
  there, make sure that you go and follow and subscribe to her show
• 1:26:23
  so you guys can tune into all of that as well because we will be
• 1:26:26
  doing a other episode in a couple days here that's going to
• 1:26:28
  be super fun as well. So thank you so much Lacey for
• 1:26:31
  today. So today was so good.
• 1:26:32
  We will be back. We will be scheduling a Part 2
• 1:26:35
  because this was just so juicy. I cannot wait to.
• 1:26:37
  Dive in and I genuinely. Felt like I was at like a girls
• 1:26:39
  wine night for business to hang out with you guys today.
• 1:26:43
  So it was so, so good. But if you guys have any
• 1:26:45
  questions or you want to follow up on any of her perspectives
• 1:26:47
  that she shared today, please be sure to go reach out to her on
• 1:26:49
  Instagram. We'll put all of her good stuff
• 1:26:51
  into the show notes for you so you know where to connect with
• 1:26:53
  her. And as always, you guys stay
• 1:26:54
  ambitious and we'll see you guys next week.