Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Strictly Come Hamster Series 8b (featuring Jon Arnold, Luke Sims-Jenkins, Paul Quinn & Jason Thompson)

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Strictly Come Hamster Series 8b (featuring Jon Arnold, Luke Sims-Jenkins, Paul Quinn & Jason Thompson) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Thus women on the moon, save the Earth from itself and wrath upon
• 0:03
  it becomes the president of the United States.
• 0:05
  She met this Global benefit. You know what?
• 0:08
  Shut up. I am so sick of listening to
• 0:10
  you. Well, I didn't do it for
• 0:18
  Courtney. I didn't know what was going to
• 0:19
  happen. Or do you think I'm lying?
• 0:22
  I don't know. I don't know if you didn't do
• 0:24
  for her. I mean.
• 0:26
  You know what it was? It was cheap.
• 0:29
  It was pathetic. No, no, it was patronizing.
• 0:32
  That was you patting on the back thing, or your big enough to go
• 0:34
  to the shops by yourself. Now, go on toddler along.
• 0:36
  Well, that was me alone you to make a choice about your own
• 0:38
  future. That was me.
• 0:42
  Respecting you. Oh my god really.
• 0:44
  Was it? Yeah.
• 0:45
  Well respected is not how I feel.
• 0:52
  Right. Okay.
• 0:52
  I nearly didn't press that button.
• 0:54
  I nearly got it wrong. That was you.
• 0:58
  My friend making me scared. Making me feel like a bloody
• 1:02
  idiot. Oh, don't you ever tell me to my
• 1:04
  my language? Don't you ever tell me to take
• 1:06
  this table? Lights off my back?
• 1:08
  And don't you dare me at the rest of all the little humans
• 1:10
  that you think are so tiny and silly and predictable?
• 1:16
  You walk our Earth, Dr. You breathe our air?
• 1:19
  You make as your friend the night is your moon, too, and you
• 1:21
  can damn well help us when we need it.
• 1:23
  I was helping what the clearing up?
• 1:25
  Yes. Well, clear off.
• 1:27
  Go on. You can clear off, get back in
• 1:30
  your lonely, you're lonely. Bloody Tony's and you don't come
• 1:33
  back. Hello everyone and welcome to
• 2:12
  Strictly. Come book club hamster podcast
• 2:15
  other than mine and what am I hated discuss with four lovely
• 2:19
  dudes Davidson know. Jody.
• 2:24
  Know, instead it's series 8B with my favorite Duo of the
• 2:29
  12th, doctor and cloth Clara. So let us board the Orient
• 2:35
  Express on our way to kill the moon and hopefully we won't land
• 2:38
  in a forest or some Dark Water. Oh, and I bought a recursion
• 2:42
  glitter ball with us or is it Alicia egg?
• 2:46
  My name is Luke Sims Jenkins and today, I'm not.
• 2:49
  Thank you, I'm not just a strictly virgin, I'm one of your
• 2:54
  hosts and with me on this journey is a guy who's been on
• 2:56
  many reading, adventures with me and I'll plan to slowly take
• 3:00
  over every corner of hamster. Has begun.
• 3:02
  Hello, Mr. John Arnold. Hello.
• 3:05
  Yes, we have told you about this yet have we know?
• 3:09
  We haven't even told each other but now that you know, Contact
• 3:12
  has been made. Oh, well done.
• 3:15
  Yes, you do a commentary. The other day, didn't you as
• 3:17
  well? And thank you everywhere, you
• 3:19
  like that Bloody virus. That's right on the nucleus of
• 3:24
  the Swarm and because we're probationary hosts were being
• 3:27
  overseen by The Mad Maestro himself, Mr. Joe Fuller, solo,
• 3:31
  Joe. Hello there.
• 3:32
  Yes. Five people on this call.
• 3:34
  This is basically a hamster orgy today and I'm very excited.
• 3:38
  I can shows. So do we have guests?
• 3:43
  Where is everybody? Yes, we have guests.
• 3:46
  First up is the man who did the wonderful?
• 3:48
  Daleks master plan commentary. That's right.
• 3:50
  Now you most from its Mr. Jason Thompson.
• 3:53
  Tell him Mr. Jason Thompson. Hello Mr. Luke hello Mr. John
• 3:56
  hello Mr. Joe, how are we all hello?
• 3:58
  I like 13 episodes. He did mission to the unknown as
• 4:03
  well. All right.
• 4:04
  Not in a night, I might as Well, I follow that and we follow an
• 4:12
  hour as well. Didn't we say?
• 4:13
  Yeah. You were a hole for a dollar.
• 4:15
  You're in a 60. Absolutely.
• 4:18
  And finally, it is the man who makes me laugh and think the man
• 4:22
  who referred to Capaldi in the comments of series 8B as he
• 4:26
  space cont. Hello everyone.
• 4:33
  And can I just say, heroically Brave?
• 4:36
  All of you are doing this in the group chat, it was clearly
• 4:40
  causing some type of at least mental distress, if not, a
• 4:44
  full-on breakdown having to watch these and show me, it's a
• 4:48
  real. It's a real too for you because
• 4:50
  I know you reread love this week as well.
• 4:52
  So I don't know how your Coke as a special treat as the day
• 4:56
  that's in it. I got a little visual guy to get
• 4:58
  us going I'm not here in a humorous, move has put on a red
• 5:08
  baseball cap of the type favor by Donald Trump's fans.
• 5:12
  He doesn't make America great again.
• 5:14
  But in a humorous, aside great is spelled g.
• 5:18
  R a t e as in rating my daughter.
• 5:21
  This that's too high quality for Donald Trump's.
• 5:24
  I think it's more people at the on this call and there is
• 5:29
  probably at his inauguration right now.
• 5:31
  So, you know, oh, the Big Orange Michael was on the call.
• 5:35
  It's got stars and stripes on the brim, my daughter did it.
• 5:38
  And the nice thing was, she was painting.
• 5:40
  It, it looked a bit like a swastika.
• 5:42
  Oh, To my four year old did of all the doctors.
• 5:48
  But you can't really see and, you know, Tom Baker's in, there
• 5:50
  you go. But you know, you're so brave.
• 5:54
  You're all of you dealing with this particularly you jokes.
• 5:56
  I know you love a bit of Capaldi Luke.
• 5:58
  I did talk about your space cont, but I also said there's a
• 6:01
  difference between Mercury or and wasp fish and being a space
• 6:05
  cont, so, yeah, he might get the first path.
• 6:09
  Some player this season, I was disappointed.
• 6:11
  Joe can put your little pump, your little flower picture in
• 6:15
  the comments for us, all to read out.
• 6:16
  I think that's some bottle of the evening.
• 6:20
  Oh, I'm hoping that your children emerge at some point
• 6:23
  Paul and remind me that not all children are as hideously
• 6:27
  annoying as The Brood of the Damned that turns up in one of
• 6:30
  these episodes. All right, I would have to
• 6:32
  disagree having had to send one upstairs, just not fair.
• 6:35
  Okay, here in the background as he loses his mind over
• 6:38
  something. I think they make him dark out
• 6:40
  of tin foil and you're Well, if anyone gets bald guy, Jordan,
• 6:45
  you know? I mean when they go to bed I was
• 6:49
  start screaming out things like we're all gonna die and things
• 6:52
  like that Dreadful made today no yeah not tonight maybe hopefully
• 6:58
  and I could take them but that'd be really weird, wouldn't it?
• 7:02
  So horrible I think indeed indeed. when will I So, while
• 7:09
  we're at it, well, rather talk about building dialect models,
• 7:13
  unfortunately, we have to talk about series a b or fortunately.
• 7:16
  So, let's do our overviews, we'll keep our jobs.
• 7:19
  Well, you know, he's a big fan of this era.
• 7:22
  That's, I know he's booked taste.
• 7:25
  I don't know much about his TV story taste at the moment, so
• 7:28
  I'm finding this out. So let's, let's do it.
• 7:31
  Let's find out. Everyone's overall views of
• 7:35
  series 8B. Let's go to Jason, what do you
• 7:38
  think? I think this, this little
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  cluster of episode contains, Literally the best and the worst
• 7:47
  of the Capaldi era and possibly even the entire run, it has a
• 7:53
  couple of absolute crackers. I won't tell you which ones yet
• 7:56
  but I'm sure you'll probably already thinking a lot of lines.
• 8:00
  But it also considered contains what I considered to be the
• 8:03
  absolute worst Doctor Who story ever produced ever broadcast and
• 8:09
  one. Yeah, absolutely.
• 8:11
  The one entry into the TV Canon that I would quite happily see
• 8:16
  erased from existence forever. I wonder if there's lots of
• 8:20
  trees in it. No, it's not that I think there
• 8:23
  is you know, it. yeah, it's I think I It does things with the
• 8:31
  doctor, companion relationship that I don't care for at all.
• 8:34
  But the flip side of that is that I think Capaldi and Coleman
• 8:39
  are absolutely Stellar. I think they're brilliant on
• 8:42
  screen. I think they work really well
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  together. But I just don't like what the
• 8:47
  writing is doing with the characters and their
• 8:48
  relationships. So this was not my favorite part
• 8:51
  of Doctor Who at all. So it was interesting to revisit
• 8:55
  him. And Paul.
• 8:59
  Um, I rewatched it for this summer, I hadn't seen on Broad
• 9:02
  cast. I would say this is probably one
• 9:06
  of my favorite runs of new. Across the board.
• 9:11
  There are as Jason said, two Stone Cold classic, but there's
• 9:16
  something good in every one of these stories and it might be my
• 9:21
  favorite of moffett's Rana apart from maybe five.
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  I think it's doing things that you haven't seen before.
• 9:29
  You won't see again. It suggests a production team
• 9:32
  that's lost, its mind. Or a leading into the madness.
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  And it's not to everyone's taste, I can see exactly why
• 9:40
  people would hate all of it. Most of it, some of it, but I, I
• 9:44
  Adore it. I was really, really pleased to
• 9:48
  go back and watch and even stuff that the first time around has
• 9:50
  gone. I'm not sure about that.
• 9:51
  I watched it. And you and I really, really
• 9:54
  enjoyed it. I think it's a great run of
• 9:56
  episodes. I didn't like the first half.
• 9:57
  I think, listen, Is obviously the best in the first half of
• 10:00
  the season and time he is fun. Deep breath is good but hampered
• 10:05
  by them, putting the extra 20 minutes in for the unnecessary
• 10:07
  Cinema release. Robin Hood's, okay.
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  Caretaker is probably the worst episode in you who have all
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  time. And once again, over that lump,
• 10:15
  they seem just to hit something here.
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  Something just goes right across the board and I love it to bits.
• 10:23
  Well, I can't wow, yeah, I'm amazed that we're starting with
• 10:28
  such wrong opinions, right off the back, right?
• 10:33
  That's gonna be exciting. Thing for Megan on people's
• 10:37
  comments are very excited and John your overview of a b.
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  I kind of fall with Paul on this one.
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  Oh, apologize. And you're not alone.
• 10:52
  We are in the post Roberts here. Gareth Roberts is gone from the
• 10:57
  show Barrett and never tried to Would you lose a bit of Comedy?
• 11:02
  But on the other hand, it's not great comedy, so it's fine that
• 11:06
  first half is just patchy Capaldi hasn't been the
• 11:09
  performance, so I don't think he and come to quite got that
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  relationship down yet. And then you get to that second
• 11:17
  half of the season. I think Capaldi seen the rushes
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  by this point and it is a step up I think from that first half
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  of the season and I think it probably is the strongest run of
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  Capaldi episodes there is what even against ten.
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  I think 10 is one of those it's like season 4 for me.
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  There's some really ropey stuff in there but the main cast can
• 11:44
  make it more than the son of its parts.
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  I can say that I'm more inclined to watch an ERA with a
• 11:48
  companion, like in. Well, this one I've given us a
• 11:57
  particularly nasty metaphor. So this whole leaves a lingering
• 11:59
  taste a bit like semen after a blowjob, you know, sour and a
• 12:05
  bit cuddles. It does sorry.
• 12:07
  Thank you take long. Did it take long?
• 12:11
  Toxic friendship brooding. Stories.
• 12:15
  Adult themes. Paul is right.
• 12:17
  We are doing new things with the series.
• 12:21
  But it does feel a bit like the joy has been sucked out of
• 12:24
  Doctor Who and I think we're aiming at a age range higher
• 12:31
  than the show ever should. I think we're excluding Some of
• 12:35
  the younger Kitty wings and yet with a cast that is younger than
• 12:39
  an average age than most of the notes, that's like an episode of
• 12:44
  anything on CBC now. But the rest, I mean, the tonal
• 12:47
  Whiplash. I said it's where you in the
• 12:50
  forest at night and dark water. I mean, it's like watching two
• 12:53
  completely different shows anyway, we'll get there, we'll
• 12:55
  get there, I can see what it's doing.
• 12:56
  I think it is confident. I think it looks great this
• 12:59
  season like the color palette over in the stylish Direction
• 13:03
  and The visuals and all of that. Really like what it's doing?
• 13:08
  I kind of think it's doing it. Well, that's a bit of a mixed
• 13:13
  critique there but I have two here.
• 13:15
  I love. I have two here that I love and
• 13:18
  one. I'm open to persuasion on On the
• 13:22
  phone and oh my, if it wasn't actually for this podcast or I
• 13:27
  guess the book club and covering Day of the Doctor by Steven
• 13:30
  Moffat, I would not have finished the era one of the
• 13:35
  writers of one of these stories that we can talk about will
• 13:38
  write an episode next season where I taped out and I didn't
• 13:42
  read until until Jody joined, that doesn't seem like such a
• 13:46
  long time. But if, when you're not watching
• 13:48
  your favorite show, it's it's an eternity.
• 13:51
  It's dog years. So yeah, because this podcast
• 13:55
  and I've loved that book, I thought.
• 13:57
  Alright. I mean, I'm off at mood, I might
• 14:00
  as well rip that Band-Aid off and watch the Capaldi era.
• 14:02
  I wanted to, with my wife had never seen it as well, so I had
• 14:06
  someone to share it with me. Did you enjoy the rest of it?
• 14:08
  Please tell me at least you enjoyed it. series 10 is
• 14:14
  Probably one of my favorite seasons of new, so I loved it.
• 14:18
  Loved Bill Parts as well. So yes, there is Capaldi that I
• 14:23
  absolutely love and there's a and there's some here that
• 14:26
  absolutely loves as well. I'm gonna sound a bit critical
• 14:28
  at some points because I wrote comments for these and that was,
• 14:33
  I did break them all. I had to re-watch all of these
• 14:36
  and put a critical on them. So there is some things I don't
• 14:40
  like. But I think there's something at
• 14:41
  least, at least one or two nuggets, in everything that I
• 14:44
  didn't enjoy. There's one moment.
• 14:46
  Sweet corn in the middle of it. There's one one point in this,
• 14:56
  in these match episode where compel he does something, and
• 15:00
  I'm like that. He's the doctor, right?
• 15:03
  It's clicked for me, he is the doctor and oh, no.
• 15:07
  He's because all fire on that. If it's not biting Flatline,
• 15:10
  but, all right. No, don't don't be.
• 15:14
  I know you did comments already on line for this season.
• 15:17
  Yeah, which are there for anyone to read.
• 15:19
  But, so did Paul for season 15, when he stepped in?
• 15:22
  Like, and trust me, you still managed, the bloody surprised me
• 15:25
  and that episode three or four times.
• 15:28
  Well, the underworld comments would surprise anyway.
• 15:31
  So shocking I put the Invasion of Time end of cliffhanger music
• 15:38
  and I just pick up a couple of things that were said, Joe, I
• 15:43
  think I agree with you that the The season looks fantastic.
• 15:47
  I think it's a very, very confident production team.
• 15:50
  I think they're producing. I think they're producing good
• 15:53
  television. I just don't like the content in
• 15:56
  a lot of cases. I don't you know I don't think
• 15:59
  you could come to this and say it's an incompetent production
• 16:01
  team. We don't know what they're
• 16:02
  doing. I think they are really, really
• 16:04
  confident and putting, you know, something that looks fantastic
• 16:08
  on the screen. Um, but yeah, I just don't like
• 16:12
  the content. And I also I set myself a bit of
• 16:14
  a challenge on this one. Because, you know, the format is
• 16:18
  three reasons, the champion or condemn but I thought if I'm
• 16:20
  gonna condemn something I want to find three things in there, I
• 16:23
  like as well and if I want to throw something in the if I want
• 16:28
  to throw, if I want to Champion something I want to find a
• 16:31
  couple of things to pick at because I think you know
• 16:33
  nothing. Nothing is so great that it's
• 16:35
  beyond criticism and nothing is so crap.
• 16:37
  That there's nothing in there to enjoy.
• 16:38
  I found something to like in every episode in this, in this.
• 16:42
  Even the ones I absolutely would quite happily consent and
• 16:45
  non-existence forever. You said something to me once
• 16:47
  about Strictly Come on. So which was it's a good format
• 16:52
  because you get to see a four and again it's four most
• 16:54
  stories, you know. So you get and overview in both
• 16:57
  directions. And I do kind of agree with
• 16:59
  that. I'm like, particularly, like
• 17:00
  about it. What I particularly like about
• 17:03
  the four and again, in this in these things is that in, in more
• 17:07
  than one occasion on these episodes.
• 17:09
  It's been the same thing, but some people have used it to
• 17:12
  Champion. And some people use it because
• 17:14
  some people like things and other people don't.
• 17:18
  And it's I think we're going to get some of that in this
• 17:19
  episode, the movie, you know. Yeah, and just saying, make a
• 17:27
  great omelette. So I think amazing location
• 17:31
  glitter ball. And let us then.
• 17:35
  Now move on to our first lot of overviews for series. 8B.
• 17:40
  Look at that. I'm freaking professional over
• 17:42
  here. Those are listening.
• 17:48
  He's got the jacket as well. It's it's beautiful.
• 17:50
  It's my Chevy trout and jacket. That's what I like, all the
• 17:55
  links and all this kind of stuff.
• 17:56
  You can't see it. But, you know, just imagine it's
• 17:58
  there. It's only turns up in color and
• 18:01
  black and white looks fine. So, let's let's do our overviews
• 18:05
  and I don't mind Jason. so, Spider-Man 72 says two Stone
• 18:16
  Cold classic for me with mummy and a specially, Flatline
• 18:20
  absolutely. Hated forest and the finale is a
• 18:23
  mixed bag though. Michelle Gomez excel's Edward
• 18:28
  Reese says, I really enjoyed series 8 on a hole initially,
• 18:32
  but the whole Clara and Danny storyline really struggles to
• 18:36
  fit in neither party, including the doctor comes out of this.
• 18:39
  In a positive light, at least the second half doesn't feature.
• 18:43
  This is much and he's better played in in the forest of the
• 18:46
  night. Oh, the first positive comment
• 18:48
  for, in the forest of the night, will it be the last?
• 18:52
  Darren liters. Darren roundels says, Flatline
• 18:57
  has an interesting concept. The rest barely register though,
• 19:00
  at the time, it mostly worked for me.
• 19:03
  Play register Mommy that mummies ghoulish, Mark.
• 19:08
  Stockley writes. I remember thinking Missy can't
• 19:10
  be them, Master mistress. That's too obvious.
• 19:12
  Well, they went with the obvious, but I'm here for it.
• 19:15
  Faves have to be mummy and Flatline, and the less said
• 19:19
  about Forest the better. There's a pattern emerging some
• 19:24
  chat. You may have heard of called
• 19:25
  Frasier Gregory. I have been something about the
• 19:30
  Damned down my ass. Yeah.
• 19:34
  Damned opinions, I think. Anyway, this freezer Gregory
• 19:39
  chap, who I hear is quite nice just covering myself there.
• 19:46
  By the end of the series, The Writing is starting to click
• 19:49
  into place as he is Capaldi's doctor.
• 19:51
  We might not know or care if he's a good man but we do know
• 19:55
  that he's a good doctor. That's a good writes, this will
• 20:02
  because I wasn't gonna swear and now look what I've got.
• 20:07
  Terrible, fantastic. Great, fucking awful.
• 20:10
  Delightfully dark, fucking awful.
• 20:13
  I mean these new names for the Seven Dwarfs aren't gonna fly in
• 20:16
  the region. Fucking awful one and a fucking
• 20:22
  awful, two. Otherwise we're just gonna get a
• 20:24
  mixed up all the time. Well you just call him fucking
• 20:26
  awful except for the Missy bits, right?
• 20:30
  Let's call him Missy bits. Michael storms says season. 8 B
• 20:35
  has a rocky start, but builds up to one of the most
• 20:38
  thought-provoking darkest and most controversial season finale
• 20:41
  is to date Moffitt shows. The flip side of the RTD down to
• 20:46
  earth approach. David Gillespie Pratt writes
• 20:49
  series 8B. Let's make Doctor Who edgier and
• 20:54
  more grown up and kill any sense.
• 20:56
  A fan or Joy while we're at it. Yes.
• 20:58
  Some people will like the engineer site of these but on
• 21:01
  the whole is just not for me. Okay, chaps give me a big, big
• 21:06
  Orange. Michael.
• 21:14
  I have no idea who this guy is, but he's become legendary for
• 21:18
  this. Where's that similar to what was
• 21:21
  wearing earlier? There we go.
• 21:23
  The second half of series. 8 finds the Capaldi era starting
• 21:27
  to find a bit more confidence. I enjoyed it a good bit and
• 21:31
  think kapow these tenure is my second favorite of the modern
• 21:33
  era. 30 years of Tori file. Says rewatching a few years ago
• 21:40
  rather Beth and I originally remembered it but does seem to
• 21:44
  be the start of moffett's, wouldn't it be cool approach to
• 21:47
  storytelling throwing in elements because hey, it's fun.
• 21:51
  Moon and Forest feel like they're all most but not quite
• 21:54
  Dr. Who The staff of moffett's. Would it be cool?
• 21:59
  That's the Impossible Astronaut. There is no reason for that to
• 22:02
  be an astronaut except it looks cool.
• 22:04
  I think that might be the Beast below.
• 22:07
  You know, when that kid goes down the left shaft, well be And
• 22:11
  final set of the final comment for this little cluster, Paul,
• 22:15
  Kresser on the whole, I found this series 2, dark and nasty.
• 22:19
  And I as you will soon learn I'm a big fan of season 21,
• 22:22
  MasterCard and all featuring two leads who are just so unlikable.
• 22:28
  I like Paul Chris already doesn't it?
• 22:33
  We've a couple of people saying it's heading in the right
• 22:35
  direction. It's a Marmite kind of a season
• 22:39
  I think. Yeah it's not on the quality of
• 22:41
  the production which is in a day it's just whether you like what
• 22:44
  is doing or not. So, chaps, I think it's time we
• 22:48
  got onto these stories here. So, Jason Paul.
• 22:53
  Who wants to go first? Who wants to pick?
• 22:57
  Champion or condemn what should be burned.
• 23:02
  I go first. Go for Paul.
• 23:06
  I I'd like to talk about a doctor who story that's set in a
• 23:11
  funeral home. And it features the doctor and
• 23:15
  companion meeting a creepy attendant at the funeral home.
• 23:19
  Kind of a sexual element to it. You discover, this is Elite
• 23:24
  group who are so afraid of dying that they've gone into this
• 23:26
  deal, but they don't realize he's gonna be transformed into
• 23:28
  one of the doctors oldest foes. And then we see a former Soldier
• 23:31
  whose committed some dishonorable act in the past to
• 23:34
  the climates kills himself and takes out all the enemies.
• 23:38
  All the villains. This this Rebrand of a classic
• 23:42
  era and that's to redeem whatever.
• 23:45
  He's done wrong in the past. But that's enough about
• 23:48
  revelation of the Daleks. Let's talk about.
• 23:52
  Dart water and say I adore revelation of the Daleks.
• 23:57
  Wait remake isn't it? It is a remake.
• 24:00
  Well, the way you just described it there?
• 24:03
  Yes, it is. I mean, keep coming back to
• 24:06
  this. That this is, this is Season 22,
• 24:08
  isn't it? And, you know, there is
• 24:09
  something superficially right about that.
• 24:10
  They probably get the doctors characterization.
• 24:12
  Wrong is in a horribly abusive relationship with his companion
• 24:16
  and it all just feels slightly off particularly after and what
• 24:19
  a come before it. Stephen Bush, the associate
• 24:22
  editor, the Ft he's a good thing on Blue Sky.
• 24:25
  He was saying few weeks ago, this was Season. 22 done
• 24:29
  properly. I'm not sure that's right
• 24:31
  because I think Season 22 is Season 22, done properly for all
• 24:34
  it. And what?
• 24:39
  Water and death in heaven. It's one of those stories where
• 24:45
  Capaldi is looking at the inability of people to accept
• 24:50
  death. He's going to do it in season 9,
• 24:54
  gonna be the doctor who can't accept Clara's death. and it's
• 24:57
  there, I think in Forest of the date.
• 25:01
  You know, the river speech of the aim where the doctor can't
• 25:03
  accept death and what's interesting.
• 25:05
  That's the first time I think that Moffat introduces a sense
• 25:08
  of an afterlife even though he tells us he's an atheist in the
• 25:12
  doc two confidential for forests of the dead.
• 25:14
  He says that's as close to an afterlife as you're going to
• 25:17
  get. But he keeps coming back to this
• 25:18
  sense of the R5. I will just predicate this for
• 25:21
  me. I haven't seen Joy to the World
• 25:23
  Joe and Luke Joe. We had conversation about Luke.
• 25:26
  I think I saw your response to on, please like my children and
• 25:30
  wife loved it. I don't think I'm gonna bother
• 25:32
  with it, so this and I'm not really factoring office in a go
• 25:36
  much Beyond season, 10 all that you can see him.
• 25:38
  Boom, I think he's coming back to you.
• 25:40
  Just can't let people go. And there is a sentiment
• 25:42
  afterlife, which is a huge irony, because of course Moffitt
• 25:45
  can't let his companions die. He kills off all his companions
• 25:49
  but he just can't let them go. So, there's a weird sense in
• 25:52
  which, this story, which is challenging to booze around.
• 25:58
  Death, but all so around, disposal of corpses. disposal of
• 26:03
  the body's and Yeah. Should it be in Doctor Who
• 26:08
  probably not? Has it been a doctor before?
• 26:10
  Yes, it has in Revelation but the sky doesn't fall in on
• 26:14
  Revelation for two reasons. I think one the whole cannibal
• 26:18
  element there is just another element of cannibalism in that
• 26:22
  series because of shock. I becomes about cannibalism
• 26:25
  because the way they cock up the costume design, you lose the
• 26:28
  anti-meat messages there. It just looks like it's another
• 26:30
  human eating humans, and of course, you've got a sense of
• 26:33
  cannibalism in Vengeance and also because it's campus hell
• 26:38
  and it's set in the future. And I think it was the previous
• 26:43
  incarnation of Luke, and John the William Hartnell, or of this
• 26:48
  podcast, who did that? Brilliant reading of revelation
• 26:52
  of the dice, which kind of dismissed it as Dr. Who is a
• 26:55
  brilliant script, is it really Doctor?
• 26:56
  Who, and there's a sense of that working in this one here as
• 27:00
  well. Don't create me.
• 27:03
  He's probably moffett's crested decision up to this point.
• 27:07
  It's hard to get realm that Of this point you say up to this
• 27:12
  point he's done stupid things before.
• 27:14
  So leaving Melody pawns as a child, abandoning New York
• 27:19
  leaving that storyline unresolved in the emotionally.
• 27:23
  Satisfactory way is like emotionally stunted on moths
• 27:26
  part. I was teaching a summer school
• 27:27
  that year and there was a American student there, who was
• 27:30
  wearing a doctor, who t shirts? We got to conversation and she
• 27:32
  was incandescent with rage that he left that child in that
• 27:36
  alley. And of course, later on, when he
• 27:38
  sends Rory and Amy back in time, It only takes a couple of lines
• 27:44
  of dialogue that he they could find that child and bring that
• 27:47
  child up. He and this is Moffitt's major
• 27:49
  problem. Even in this run, they were
• 27:52
  lines of dialogue, that could be added which solve a lot of the
• 27:55
  problems that he causes himself. He get that in Time of the
• 27:58
  Doctor, as well. That being said, I love these
• 28:02
  two episodes. Even though, you know, it's
• 28:05
  going on very dangerous ground in terms of funerals, I mean,
• 28:10
  she don't know you and I arranged funeral subsequent to
• 28:14
  this. So we know just how important a
• 28:17
  funeral is and Moffett having it disrupted, takes the show into a
• 28:21
  really subversive area. rightly or wrongly, I mean, I think
• 28:29
  There are a lot of things wrong with this.
• 28:30
  It's kind of I was thinking about David Lynch even before he
• 28:34
  died this week. And now I'm thinking about even
• 28:36
  more and there's a sense in which there was when they
• 28:39
  launched Twin Peaks of return. Wasn't the line that this was
• 28:43
  this was full on Lynch. This was Lynch as heroin
• 28:46
  injected into your eyeballs and cut heroin wasn't active.
• 28:50
  Thanks John. And there's a sense in which
• 28:51
  this is a much Mildred drug being injected into, but this is
• 28:54
  Moffitt where he's kind of abandoned.
• 28:56
  The normal narrative, linkages that move a story along what
• 29:00
  you've got here. Are a series of spectacular set
• 29:04
  pieces and he just kind of moves you into that.
• 29:07
  However, he wants to do it. I think Coleman and Capaldi are
• 29:11
  phenomenal in this. I think I know people have
• 29:15
  problems with Jenna Coleman. I know I think some of the
• 29:18
  comments were that the character become smart or arrogant.
• 29:22
  I think we have to be careful with that type of phrasing
• 29:25
  because it it's often used of confidence women.
• 29:28
  Or is it a case of the Muppets right in at this point, is
• 29:32
  slipping, because, of course, lurking behind Clara as is
• 29:35
  lurking behind River Song is Linda from press gang.
• 29:39
  She's the ultimate Doctor Who go, which of course, is why it's
• 29:43
  so perfect that Emma in cursive, fatal death is played by Julia
• 29:46
  Soleil. So it is Julie and I get over
• 29:49
  Linda day and he can't I haven't got over her John you're you're
• 29:54
  my vintage you know yes we're haunted by Linda.
• 29:57
  Every absolutely you can understand how Margaret Thatcher
• 30:00
  became. Prime minister, can't you?
• 30:02
  It's authoritarian. What I understand what the torn
• 30:05
  piece went through now. I mean she was a monster though,
• 30:09
  right? We loved her but she told me,
• 30:13
  Also say Clara's been, this is what Jenna Coleman's, third
• 30:17
  season or something like that. Yeah.
• 30:22
  I feel like a confident companion too.
• 30:24
  If I'd been around this long because the problem is there's
• 30:27
  no consistent Clara. We're on to about our third
• 30:29
  version of classes become a. She's become, what is it?
• 30:38
  A control freak. You don't get those earliest
• 30:41
  season. But what I think he does here so
• 30:43
  brilliantly He goes, the fans. Yes, he does not as badly.
• 30:49
  Not as badly as David's done recently with Empire of death.
• 30:52
  So like, putting Coleman's name first, in the credit sequence,
• 30:55
  having her a face appear having to play the doctor and then that
• 30:59
  big info dump of information that's to go the fans because
• 31:02
  the fans are all so people who can't let go They keep
• 31:07
  resurrecting these characters. And so I think cyber break,
• 31:10
  which is a terrible idea, it's a monstrously stupid idea.
• 31:14
  The Cyber Brigadier is Big finish.
• 31:16
  They just can't let these characters die.
• 31:19
  I made a joke online on Twitter. I was still on there that you're
• 31:23
  eventually you're going to get an AI reconstruction or William
• 31:26
  Hartnell and it's going to be awful.
• 31:28
  And so when you do realize, it's their children playing them.
• 31:30
  I think that just makes it worse because now you've inherited the
• 31:34
  role. Those, I never really understood
• 31:36
  big finish Beyond, Colin Baker, because there's unfinished
• 31:39
  business there and again because that's where it exists.
• 31:41
  Everything else, those seasons are perfect and complete in and
• 31:44
  of themselves. Leave it fans write your
• 31:47
  fanfiction. You've got Gallery base for this
• 31:49
  type of nonsense. Cyber bridge is just kind of
• 31:52
  scooping the vomit back into fandom.
• 31:55
  And of course, because it comes where the Brigadier shoots the
• 31:58
  master just as the Masters about to shoot the master, the type of
• 32:01
  thing that only exists in the feta, the imaginings of a
• 32:04
  particular type of fan to have it there on screen is brilliant
• 32:07
  and terrible at the same time. I was about Missy briefly as
• 32:11
  well. I think Missy is a fabulous
• 32:13
  version of the master. I think Sasha Duan is brilliant
• 32:15
  as well. I think one one, good thing we
• 32:17
  got from chipmunk and we got from Moffitt and we got many,
• 32:21
  many good things. From them, this kind of almost
• 32:26
  deranged intense Doctor Who that we've got in this season in
• 32:30
  this. And in one of the story in
• 32:31
  particular, you won't see repeated.
• 32:33
  Again until chibnall does, can you hear me and what you leave
• 32:37
  behind or it takes you away. There's something very different
• 32:40
  going on in those stories that you find here as well.
• 32:43
  And Missy is brilliant. She's Dangerous.
• 32:47
  She's threatening. She's funny.
• 32:48
  She kills? What some, oh, she killed.
• 32:53
  Yeah, any other time she gets well.
• 32:55
  Now of course, another example, Moffat can't let a character
• 32:57
  die. She just cry and it wrecks that
• 33:00
  seemed. But that seems so powerful.
• 33:02
  It's so intense Capaldi's response to her being out is for
• 33:06
  normally tells you how dangerous this character is.
• 33:08
  And then, of course, who's gonna kill her.
• 33:10
  No one kills in the end as we discover the following Seasons,
• 33:13
  but the fact that they're gonna have to dock to kill her, he's
• 33:16
  taking the show into a different direction to a New Direction.
• 33:19
  That's right, this isn't fun, but it's intense.
• 33:23
  And it's unlike most of what? You see, it's awesome miltonic,
• 33:27
  if you look at what's on Clara's bookshelves, Milton, is there.
• 33:30
  And where do they go? They go to hell.
• 33:31
  They go to Darkness visible. And as you know, I love a bit of
• 33:35
  literature in this. Yeah, I it's becoming incoherent
• 33:40
  but I think that the challenge to funeral arrangements, the
• 33:43
  Cyber break. I also think obviously Coleman
• 33:46
  should have left here or the Christmas special.
• 33:48
  The Christmas special should have revealed has to be pregnant
• 33:50
  with Danny's child. They were never going to do
• 33:52
  that, of course, because it's essentially conservative
• 33:54
  organization of conservative production.
• 33:56
  So you can't have premarital sex but that gets around the
• 33:59
  wrecking of the timeline in. Listen which happens here and
• 34:02
  Moffat, just doesn't care. He just throw something else on
• 34:04
  the screen and skips away. It's just become about big
• 34:08
  events. I'm not sure.
• 34:09
  He's even got an internal logic anymore.
• 34:11
  Like Rick wedding of River Song, you might you may hate it but
• 34:15
  there's an internal logic to it this.
• 34:16
  I'm not sure. It shouldn't be the side of many
• 34:18
  either obviously Because it's, it's mad.
• 34:21
  How do the handles get onto the corpses in the grave if you had
• 34:24
  a line that the exploding Cybermen have now, got kind of
• 34:28
  liquid metal and infects the body's, and they come out as a
• 34:31
  kind of silver zombie. That'd be fine, but he doesn't
• 34:34
  even do that. That being said, the scene in
• 34:37
  the graveyard with the Bluefield.
• 34:38
  I know you hate it, Joe. Hey dearly.
• 34:41
  But it could be, it's a dream sequence or a nightmare or
• 34:44
  something. Oh, we can only hope the Clara
• 34:46
  being tracked around that graveyard as the cemetery roller
• 34:51
  because it's not attached to a church.
• 34:52
  And you can see, I spend too long in graveyards in church and
• 34:55
  so much, I can get that distinction as they come out
• 34:57
  and, and then wandering around the grave up.
• 34:59
  It's utterly brilliant, it's creepy in a way Doctor Who
• 35:02
  sometimes manages, Shouldn't do all the time but I it's it's
• 35:06
  phenomenal. I watched it again.
• 35:07
  Last night. I know.
• 35:08
  I nearly couldn't watch you because you know what's coming
• 35:11
  with Donnie. And it's really moving.
• 35:14
  And then when they, when he, when he's on, goes around during
• 35:16
  in the graveyard and she's just leaning into its really, really
• 35:19
  emotional. And I think if they, they should
• 35:23
  have finished it with her walking away at the end of that
• 35:25
  scene after they have that really weird conversation in the
• 35:28
  cafe. It's kind of like a reheated
• 35:30
  sitcom. So it's kind of like coupling or
• 35:33
  Linda and Spike again but it's so sad, but it would be so
• 35:36
  fitting or you finish it in Christmas.
• 35:39
  You didn't need a nine. It was perfect in and as it was
• 35:42
  and yeah, you're gonna bin it because you hate it.
• 35:45
  You're going to burn it because it's so offensive.
• 35:46
  But I, I love it's a piece. I did the Capaldi's last speech.
• 35:51
  That's where Flatline and here. And kind of even in mummy,
• 35:56
  although watch it again today that this mod moments in mummy,
• 35:58
  where you go, really, he really doing this?
• 36:00
  I, he's an idiot in a, with a box and a screwdriver.
• 36:03
  It's, it's amazing. I, I think Capaldi was miscast.
• 36:07
  I think it was a mistake. He's brilliant, I wouldn't
• 36:09
  replace him but it's the moment which the audience, I think the
• 36:13
  relationship changes, I think you're right.
• 36:15
  Joe, this is now for older people.
• 36:17
  It was on later in the evening. I don't know who is Mentor
• 36:20
  appeal to, but it appeals to me. So I urge you to send it to
• 36:23
  Heaven, rather than down to Hell my offer.
• 36:26
  I said earlier, when we were discussing this and a cafe and I
• 36:28
  said, who think this is going for?
• 36:30
  When he goes he has this guy for fans of the new adventures
• 36:33
  really. You know, I thought a bit more
• 36:36
  Twisted, you know, a bit nasty. Yeah.
• 36:39
  And a bit less fun and I was like, oh no wonder I don't get
• 36:42
  on with its subscribe anyway, we should probably go to the
• 36:46
  comments, you know. Oh, it's me, isn't it?
• 36:48
  Sorry, you have a copy here. From Edward cook Reese, who
• 36:53
  says, such a chilling concept with the free words, should this
• 36:57
  be in Doctor, Who great visuals and Direction.
• 36:59
  Missy is a great addition to the Canon and Capaldi and Coleman's
• 37:02
  show their worth. Some chap from north of razor,
• 37:08
  razor Gregory. Oh yeah.
• 37:11
  Should be worth Champions down to this.
• 37:14
  There are so many damn souls in this episode.
• 37:16
  Just gonna be okay. In which we have a truly Triumph
• 37:21
  finale, to the tragedy of Danny pink tragedy, my ass go.
• 37:25
  The only character mopper is Barbie enough to leave dead and
• 37:29
  one of the best ever masterclass purely because it has no other
• 37:33
  reason than to fuck with the doctors.
• 37:36
  South then the dark water that opening aside is just 30 minutes
• 37:40
  of counting down to a cliffhanger.
• 37:42
  The payoff is death in the heaven.
• 37:43
  Just about keeps the story above water and till cyber break comes
• 37:48
  up to a pig exit, being water. Being in heaven.
• 37:52
  I champion of the Damned my inner pain.
• 37:56
  Wow. James hadwin Bennett says a
• 38:00
  strong case for Moffat. Never being allowed for again he
• 38:05
  was and pisses on the memory of the bridge.
• 38:08
  The BBC should never ever, let it be made a grown up shortly
• 38:15
  says something that I heard very few people say I don't like
• 38:20
  missing. I find her too ridiculous.
• 38:22
  Like, Bugs Bunny versus the doctor, just not compelling or a
• 38:27
  threat. So, I've met inclusion.
• 38:28
  Here is wasted to try and emulate The Invasion.
• 38:31
  Let's not forget the Cyber break and extremely crashed decision.
• 38:34
  This one is to be drowned. That delightful Lucy McCall.
• 38:40
  I'm pretending that cyber break didn't have.
• 38:43
  A lot of people were baited by this and what?
• 38:47
  Yeah. Jack, Koyo writes, my least
• 38:52
  favorite of this sponge and the weakest Capaldi finale by far.
• 38:56
  If there's no sufficient beginning to the story, then can
• 38:59
  an end ever be successful, Rachel tolerate delivers, some
• 39:03
  stunning visuals and performances like Clara in the
• 39:06
  Hellfire of the volcanic planet. But the Bleak color grading in
• 39:10
  the graveyard scene looks dull. Michelle Gomez is fantastic.
• 39:14
  As Missy and the Cybermen, provide some fun action, but
• 39:18
  it's the greatest success. But it's great to success is in
• 39:21
  interrogating, the master doctor Dynamic rather than a series
• 39:25
  Arc. Does the interrogate the master,
• 39:28
  Dr. Dynamic, I think there's far too much else going on here to
• 39:32
  have any time to do, that it does but it's doing other things
• 39:35
  as well. I think Michael storm.
• 39:37
  My Nemesis of repute, says, probably the darkest of most
• 39:41
  adult moth would take, who the don't cremate.
• 39:43
  Me sequence is ill-advised, but does draw from old Superstition,
• 39:47
  but probably fits better in Torchwood, the stories, real
• 39:50
  wellness. And the reminder that the
• 39:52
  sidemen are, literally Walking Dead with Danny's very down to
• 39:55
  earth. Deaf Clara's five stages of
• 39:57
  grief, set to remind that Doctor Who firmly belongs in our to
• 40:00
  space fantasy worlds. And heightens familiarity.
• 40:03
  Missy is a hoot and probably the most, oh sorry.
• 40:07
  Probably at her most evil here. Keep its David gets me Pratt.
• 40:13
  And he says, the whole concept of conscious people, being
• 40:17
  cremated shouldn't have made it to scream.
• 40:19
  A genuinely horrible idea. And then we have to listen to it
• 40:24
  as well. The most misjudged Concepts in
• 40:27
  the whole calendar of Doctor Who Big Orange.
• 40:33
  Oh, it's my first time and I blew it.
• 40:36
  God damn it. I'm sorry.
• 40:39
  Michael. It is now, I'm moving on.
• 40:41
  I think small on this one. Look up, big Elite.
• 40:44
  Yeah, yeah. All right?
• 40:45
  Bigger orange Michael, wait. It's a big orange.
• 40:48
  Michael. Michelle Gomez makes her Mark as
• 40:51
  my definitive Master of the modern era Gomez and compel the
• 40:54
  are a delight. The call back to the invasion is
• 40:57
  nicely done and there's a sense of dread into who that I love.
• 41:00
  Keep both of these episodes so simply says horrible, just
• 41:07
  horrible. Jared star Dark Water on rewatch
• 41:12
  is genuinely one of the best episodes of the show.
• 41:14
  I would say, 10 out of 10. Death in heaven, while not
• 41:18
  strong, we're still quite solid facts to Missy 8 out of 10.
• 41:23
  And Maddie, who is just Maddie, like Madonna is Madonna.
• 41:27
  The finale is one of the most misunderstood examples of Doctor
• 41:31
  Who ever. It's brilliant takes on really
• 41:34
  dark territory, territory, and tries to have both personal
• 41:38
  emotional way, along with high stakes, very much due for a
• 41:42
  reconsideration by fans. I mean, we're all, we're
• 41:45
  reconsidering it, right? We'll make our adjustments
• 41:47
  shortly. Daniel rules says contains some
• 41:50
  of the very best of the Moffitt era Clara's, volcanic betrayal,
• 41:53
  and Capaldi's Triumph have a messy in a cemetery are
• 41:56
  magnificently active and the worst.
• 41:59
  Don't create me Cyber bricks. See someone else being baited
• 42:02
  and squeezing Sebastian oh on the Cybermen are now Iron Man.
• 42:06
  Get it clever no not even a little bit.
• 42:11
  The lovely. So I heart one of our
• 42:13
  predecessors on, as a host act. Remember, he loves everything he
• 42:18
  does everything. And I usually greet him by
• 42:19
  almost everything about Doctor, Who, So the last two partner is
• 42:24
  so badly. Judged and horrible.
• 42:26
  What went wrong? Oh yeah.
• 42:29
  All, this is the season finale. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
• 42:36
  It's just unpleasant we're nearly there folks.
• 42:39
  Penultimate comment comes from Daniel, knight Dark Water has
• 42:42
  the wonderful line. Do you think I care for you?
• 42:45
  So little that betraying me would make a difference but
• 42:48
  apart from that it's awful, a real low point in the series
• 42:51
  history, which showed Moffitt had lost sight of what Doctor
• 42:54
  Who is and should have gone and should have gone.
• 42:57
  If only for don't cremate me, I've been having is an absolute
• 43:00
  mess of a season finale. The Cyber brick is horribly
• 43:03
  disrespectful, things to do the idea of Missy creating a cyber
• 43:07
  Army using corpses and pushing the mines harvested at their
• 43:10
  death. Back into them, just to get the
• 43:12
  doctor to like her is both idiotic and irresponsible been
• 43:17
  passionate from Daniel and I And the final comment Kieran Moore,
• 43:23
  it has a few baffling decisions like the Cyber break, but the
• 43:27
  introduction of Missy makes it worthwhile ultimately
• 43:30
  overshadowed by the much better Missy side, mount finale, two
• 43:33
  seasons later. And on this note, that Joe
• 43:35
  Santos, this three hearts there. So obviously he's a good adore
• 43:39
  this half as he's not, put everything through Hey, Bae.
• 43:43
  Yeah, tell me about our next up. I don't want to Jason.
• 43:49
  He's been waiting long enough. Jason, can we hear you, please?
• 43:52
  By all means. I'll just read you.
• 43:55
  The top line of my notes for this episode.
• 43:57
  No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 44:00
  No. No.
• 44:00
  No, no, no, no limits. Doctor distress, right?
• 44:06
  This is the two pathar. I would quite happily erase from
• 44:10
  Dr. Who's Canon entirely forever for all time?
• 44:13
  I absolutely love it. I think it's the worst piece of
• 44:17
  doctor. I'm delighted that people have
• 44:19
  enjoyed it. I pulled defense of it was was
• 44:22
  eloquent and Brilliant and fantastic.
• 44:24
  If it worked for people, that's great, this is what I love about
• 44:27
  this show. Some things will work for
• 44:29
  people. Something's won't for me.
• 44:30
  This is the most awful piece of Doctor.
• 44:33
  Who ever now ever full stop. Yeah, they have been bad Doctor
• 44:38
  Who stories before there have been incompetently made Doctor
• 44:41
  Who stories. There have been Dr. Who stories
• 44:43
  that have left me thinking, well, that was boring.
• 44:45
  There have been Doctor Who stories that have left me
• 44:47
  thinking that was shit. That was a crap story.
• 44:51
  That was the production was terrible.
• 44:53
  This is the only Doctor Who story.
• 44:56
  In the whole run that has left me.
• 44:59
  Feeling physically sick. After I watched it.
• 45:02
  I felt awful after watching this and I had to watch it over two,
• 45:06
  bloody weeks. So it got twice.
• 45:09
  So I think that it is one of the most misjudged episodes that has
• 45:14
  ever made it to screen. I had not long suffered, a
• 45:19
  really Hefty bereavement I had one that was coming up, that I
• 45:25
  knew wasn't going to be long. The last thing I needed at that
• 45:29
  time was my favorite television show, telling me that dead.
• 45:32
  People are screaming in Terror at being cremated, because guess
• 45:35
  what happened to the people? I lost me to chase me the last
• 45:40
  thing I needed to see. Absolutely.
• 45:42
  And unfortunately, as timing would have it a month ago.
• 45:45
  I had another family bereavement and had to attend a funeral.
• 45:48
  I could not bring myself to re-watch these two episodes for
• 45:52
  this podcast. I read I read the transcript So
• 45:57
  that I would remind myself of the plot on the actual dialogue
• 46:00
  and I could call it back to mind because amazingly, it's 10 years
• 46:03
  old, well, over 10 years old now.
• 46:07
  So I reread it so that I was, you know, properly sure that my
• 46:11
  points were actually valid in terms of what was said and what
• 46:14
  was done, but I could not bring myself to sit in front of it.
• 46:17
  I tried three or four times in the run-up to this podcast.
• 46:20
  I couldn't do it. So I did say that I would try
• 46:25
  and find things that were you're right over there.
• 46:28
  Paul. That's a pretty cool going on
• 46:31
  over there. I can hear strange noises as
• 46:33
  well. One second Jason I can do a bit
• 46:35
  better. Oh he's mute himself.
• 46:36
  Keep going. Okay.
• 46:39
  I did say at the beginning, I would fight.
• 46:41
  I'd set myself a challenge to find good things in the episode.
• 46:44
  So I wanted to be in and critical things in the episode.
• 46:47
  I wanted to Champion. So there are there is gold in
• 46:50
  this two-parter. Michelle Gomez is Missy is
• 46:53
  absolutely superb. I I love her, I think she's
• 46:56
  brilliant. There's a moment that I liked on
• 47:02
  first broadcast and it's that bit where the doctor goes into
• 47:05
  the lift and says, I'm missing something obvious and it closes
• 47:07
  and it's basically the logo is Cybermen eyes on the lift.
• 47:11
  That kind of tickled me a bit. That was a little moment which I
• 47:13
  quite liked. It played the song Man music at
• 47:16
  that point. Yeah, and I'm also going to say
• 47:20
  I know that she's your absolute favorite character, Joe, but I
• 47:23
  think this is Kate Lethbridge Stewart's.
• 47:26
  Best intro into any episode where she marches at the
• 47:29
  Cybermen. And they said talks like that.
• 47:32
  Jason, no one goes up and goes. Has my job.
• 47:37
  Introduces himself like that. It's a hero speech.
• 47:40
  That's a hero show us from their head.
• 47:43
  If you and the thing I love about it, is when the Cybermen
• 47:47
  pull the classic, we are superior you stand.
• 47:50
  No chance and she casually drops a busted Cyberman head into it.
• 47:53
  Yeah, you sure about that. Basically, I'll rephrase out.
• 47:56
  Then no one delivers a hero speech.
• 47:58
  That's on. Amelia then.
• 48:00
  Okay. Well, I like it so far.
• 48:02
  I think that's one of her best moments.
• 48:07
  I really like that. It's the dropping.
• 48:10
  Its the dropping, the busted Cyberman head to say.
• 48:13
  Yeah, we've actually met you guys before.
• 48:14
  So, you're not as tough as you think you are.
• 48:16
  I really like that. So there is good stuff in here,
• 48:19
  but Surrounding all of that is. The most toxic doctor companion
• 48:27
  relationship we've ever had. I don't want the doctor and the
• 48:31
  companion to have a toxic relationship.
• 48:33
  I want them to be friends, exploring the universe together,
• 48:36
  the sixth doctor in Perry was, you know, bickering constantly
• 48:39
  but Colin and Nicola worked against that and tried to put
• 48:42
  something in. So you could actually see as it
• 48:44
  went on. You could see why these these
• 48:47
  two might actually want to spend time together.
• 48:50
  You know, you talked about Paul talked about revelation of the
• 48:53
  Daleks, as a, as an influence on this, or a route for this.
• 48:56
  And there's a sequence in that where she goes to hand him that
• 49:01
  flower and he goes, oh no. And she's like, oh, is it safe
• 49:04
  to touch? And he kind of says, usually
• 49:06
  with a little Sly grin, and I think that's a lovely little
• 49:08
  moment. So, you know, little things like
• 49:10
  that were in there, but here, Oh God, Clara and the doctor.
• 49:14
  I'm gonna come back to this on all these episodes.
• 49:16
  I'm sure. But it reaches an absolute, the
• 49:19
  terrible Point here because Lots of people have said about that
• 49:23
  line, do you think I care for you?
• 49:25
  So little bit betraying me would make any difference.
• 49:27
  I hate that line. I absolutely love it. because
• 49:32
  frankly, Being betrayed by someone, you really care about
• 49:37
  is gut wrenching, and awful. And yes, it makes a fucking
• 49:41
  difference. The idea that you would just
• 49:44
  casually go. Oh, they betrayed me, never
• 49:46
  mind. I'm still going to help them
• 49:47
  out. He's not a healthy response.
• 49:51
  It's just not. You know that is not how to
• 49:55
  express the affection that the doctor has for a companion that
• 49:58
  they can basically get away with shit.
• 50:00
  Because he cares about them so much.
• 50:01
  That's not a healthy relationship.
• 50:03
  It's almost versatile happened earlier in the season where he
• 50:06
  ditched at the end of killed, the moon of balls are to make
• 50:08
  that terrible decision. And in the next one, she's like,
• 50:10
  oh well actually I quite like being reviewed.
• 50:12
  Let's keep going, I don't care about being betrayed in this
• 50:17
  season, but here's the bit that no one I've seen.
• 50:19
  I haven't seen anyone comment on in that sequence that entire
• 50:22
  sequence is She tries to drug him and he drugs her.
• 50:28
  This is not a healthy fucking relationship.
• 50:33
  It's absolutely horrendous. It's not not good at all.
• 50:38
  I can't stand it. I don't want the doctrine
• 50:41
  companion to have that kind of relationship where they will.
• 50:44
  You know, drug each other to get what they want and it's just,
• 50:47
  no, no. Sorry.
• 50:51
  And also picking up on something that Paul said about Moffat,
• 50:55
  just ignoring what's gone before.
• 50:57
  And I'm going to pick up on this again later.
• 50:59
  The whole thing about destroying the Tardis Keys, the doctor will
• 51:02
  never set foot in the Tar. This except the Moffat has made
• 51:05
  a big thing. About the doctor, being able to
• 51:06
  open the Tardis doors with the snap of his fingers.
• 51:09
  The key is somehow irrelevant now, but now suddenly, it's a
• 51:13
  big thing. Oh, this makes no sense.
• 51:15
  The weird thing though was what Paul said, there Jason about one
• 51:18
  about baiting fans and two about not caring of its internally
• 51:22
  consistent. Like those things were said as,
• 51:24
  if they were triumphs, they're not.
• 51:27
  They're really not. They're no, they're annoying.
• 51:32
  So yeah. So okay.
• 51:33
  So what's the big thing that I hate?
• 51:35
  Don't create me? The most god-awful thing that
• 51:39
  doctor who is ever ever done and it's worth, even the concept is
• 51:44
  bad enough. But as the thing is explored, it
• 51:47
  is revealed that this basically this plot involving, the cyber
• 51:51
  men taking over corpses, which Cybermen have never done.
• 51:56
  This, I mean kind of misunderstands the basic
• 51:58
  principle of the Cybermen which is converting us. not taking
• 52:03
  over our bones, they don't want our bones, they want our brains
• 52:07
  But the brains of the Dead have disintegrated, the very long
• 52:09
  time ago. I think that the
• 52:12
  misunderstanding of the Cybermen from this era is nowhere better
• 52:16
  shown than in the very trivial idea that the Cybermen have
• 52:20
  those little semi-circular motifs on the sets for the Cyber
• 52:23
  ships and everything else because somebody has looked at a
• 52:25
  photograph of the Tomb of the Cybermen and gone.
• 52:27
  Oh those semi-circles up the side of the tombs.
• 52:29
  They're cool. But not actually watch the
• 52:31
  episode to realize that there are fucking ladder It's not a
• 52:36
  set of fun shapes that they've put on for, you know,
• 52:39
  decorative. That's all right.
• 52:42
  Just to make it. Look cool.
• 52:46
  I expect nothing less though. So, you know.
• 52:50
  So don't create me, the Cybermen the whole.
• 52:54
  The fact that he said that this is being done to the Dead, all
• 52:58
  of the world's dead throughout centuries.
• 53:01
  At one point, somebody from the 18th century, digs their way out
• 53:04
  of a grave, what size people Jason at the end of this.
• 53:08
  I'm really confused, but this is the thing.
• 53:11
  Every dead person in the world rips their way out of a grave
• 53:14
  and then at the end of it, the Cybermen don't do anything.
• 53:19
  And then they all get they fly up into the space and into the
• 53:22
  air and get blown up and that's it.
• 53:23
  Okay? So all those bones are nothing.
• 53:26
  They're all up in space, that's it.
• 53:27
  So now basically, it's employed heavily that every graveyard is
• 53:31
  empty. So that's a massive generational
• 53:33
  trauma for the surviving family, who now have no body in the
• 53:36
  grave that they might want to go and visit, except when Osgood
• 53:40
  goes to visit herself at the grave next season in the zygon
• 53:43
  too far and this is Steven Moffitt again for getting or not
• 53:47
  caring about what's been on screen before because The bit
• 53:51
  that you're not supposed to think about.
• 53:53
  Two years previously, a massive emotional finale to an episode,
• 53:57
  was Amy and Rory being Zapped back in time and the doctor
• 54:01
  standing over their grave. So Amy, and Rory, have been
• 54:03
  cyber than blown up. Oh God, any other Doctor Who
• 54:07
  companions that died on Earth and been buried.
• 54:09
  They in The time. So he said this point unless
• 54:18
  people, so, you know, we're not supposed to think about it, but
• 54:22
  basically every dead person on earth almost has its implied may
• 54:26
  have been turned into a Cyberman resurrected and then blown up
• 54:29
  within five minutes of showing up and the worst part of all of
• 54:34
  this is that this massive plan. It's not even the Cyber men's
• 54:41
  plan. It's Missy's plan it.
• 54:44
  Which has Global implications, which involves the mass
• 54:48
  desecration of the dead, because it turns out the terrified
• 54:50
  cremated ones, were the lucky bastards because they got up,
• 54:53
  and they don't actually get to be Cybermen for you.
• 54:59
  All of this is nothing but backdrop to the doctors,
• 55:02
  introspection about whether he's a good man or not, he doesn't do
• 55:06
  anything to undo the situation. He doesn't, you know, how many
• 55:10
  times have we had Global catastrophes?
• 55:12
  That the doctor has undone with some wibbly wobbly timing thing.
• 55:15
  But this one, no, this one's fine because it's okay because
• 55:18
  he's just figured out. He's not a good man, a bad
• 55:20
  manner here, he's just an idiot with a box helping out.
• 55:24
  I mean, haven't we done the doctor introspective about
• 55:27
  whether or not they're good and bad and what they do and the
• 55:30
  things they do, are we not just doing it to death literally on
• 55:37
  the on the plane, doesn't he? Oh, that's going on around.
• 55:41
  I mean, this is, this is, this is awful.
• 55:43
  I mean, the Stephen moffatt created a wonderful character in
• 55:46
  Osgood. In Day of the Doctor.
• 55:48
  I love Osgood in Day of the Doctor.
• 55:50
  I think she's fantastic. And here, he just cruelly
• 55:54
  casually, kills her off. And then later on the kind of
• 55:56
  plays around and gets away with it, by implying, that it might
• 55:59
  be the zygon duplicate that somehow hung around.
• 56:03
  But it might not be, we don't know and it's just oh, for God's
• 56:07
  sake. It's just the most awful
• 56:09
  cynical. Crawl.
• 56:10
  Vile piece of Doctor Who that ever made it to screen.
• 56:13
  So I would quite happily bin. It Erase it.
• 56:17
  Convert it into a Cyberman and blow it up in the atmosphere.
• 56:22
  And you don't like this one. I don't.
• 56:24
  I hate it. I write it through.
• 56:28
  Yeah, he just had one thing that was gonna like, yeah, clear.
• 56:33
  All that away. No, I can on this Lisa.
• 56:35
  I think this is the only, I think this is the only Doctor
• 56:38
  Who story. I can actually properly,
• 56:40
  honestly, say, without any hyperbole.
• 56:41
  I hate it. I absolutely love it.
• 56:44
  It's awful. So T was just delivered, how
• 56:47
  nice He doesn't it when he go next.
• 56:53
  Oh yeah. Absolutely.
• 56:54
  Well because I think the first 15 minutes of Dark Water are
• 56:59
  brilliant, and I think the deaf of Danny pink is done.
• 57:04
  So understated lie, that phone call and him just going quiet
• 57:07
  and the woman picking up the phone and it is genuinely
• 57:10
  devastating. The scene between Clara and her
• 57:14
  Nan in the kitchen widen. We see more of her Nan.
• 57:17
  Sheila, Reed, is fantastic. Why did he bring back the
• 57:20
  families more? It's so annoying.
• 57:21
  I think that's great as well. I don't like all the poisoning
• 57:27
  and that that's going on. But Jenna Coleman's anger during
• 57:31
  the beer on the volcano, it is electric to watch his response
• 57:35
  to that as well. I think all of that is it's
• 57:39
  troubling and it's uncomfortable, but it's supposed
• 57:41
  to be and it's very powerful. Those two are on foot Peter
• 57:46
  Capaldi, and Jenna Coleman, not absolutely brilliant on screen
• 57:48
  together. They really are, you know,
• 57:50
  that's but phrases, right? Then you go to what's the place
• 57:54
  called? Three words, three, don't
• 57:55
  whatever. It's called.
• 57:57
  And and the episode literally stalls for about 25 minutes.
• 58:03
  Nothing happens. We talked a little bit, we do
• 58:06
  that. Don't make me saying, which is
• 58:07
  horrible, I've talked about that elsewhere, I think it's
• 58:10
  miserable position. That's the other thing you were
• 58:12
  talking. Yeah, marking time, the Dark
• 58:13
  Water of the title. is a MacGuffin purely so that we can
• 58:18
  have those Glass things, with with skeletons behind him,
• 58:23
  revealed to be Cybermen, because this dark water is hiding the
• 58:27
  mechanical components. And then it goes away once the
• 58:30
  side is never mentioned, again, it's just a way to hide the
• 58:34
  Cybermen in plain sight. We should use those in pools,
• 58:37
  right? Why There is a I think there is
• 58:40
  a genuine sort of ominous tone to the direction in those middle
• 58:44
  scenes, but nothing is happening at all.
• 58:46
  It's just running on the sport and then we just head out into
• 58:49
  some pools. For some reason, none of that's
• 58:52
  been built up. None of its been set up.
• 58:54
  We're doing The Invasion Cliffhanger again because we
• 58:56
  need a cliffhanger because it's the novel episode of the season.
• 58:59
  But there's no sort of momentum or build up to that in the way
• 59:02
  that Rusty Davis would do with his penultimate episode.
• 59:05
  He builds and builds and then boom, you get your Cliffhanger.
• 59:08
  This is just like, oh, we're outside.
• 59:09
  Oh, the sidemen here. Oh well, here we are.
• 59:12
  Then you get deaf in heaven, which has a really exciting
• 59:17
  sequence is absurd, but a really exciting sequence where a load
• 59:20
  of Iron Man. Superman Cybermen Superman,
• 59:24
  Spider-Man attack a plane which is really brilliantly executed
• 59:27
  and totally so out of Joy with what was going on in the first
• 59:32
  episode. Suddenly, we were in superhero
• 59:35
  territory when we were doing all that sort of creeping Horror in
• 59:38
  the first one, then we start bringing the dead back to life
• 59:41
  and that's just horrible. Again, it's as bad as Joker.
• 59:44
  Make me, you're right. I've been in the like the finale
• 59:48
  of the piece in the middle of all of this.
• 59:51
  Aura. Mary Poppins comes flying.
• 59:53
  And it's like, did anyone have a fucking tone me in this thing?
• 59:58
  Like, it is Whiplash from from Comedy to horror, and it is all
• 1:00:04
  things Doctor Who can do, but not to these extremes are not
• 1:00:08
  all mushed into this two-part. So, from thing to say, I don't
• 1:00:12
  think you know what he's doing. He's sort of making it all up,
• 1:00:14
  and I think the biggest problem is I've just don't feel anything
• 1:00:17
  at all for Danny, Pink's death at the end.
• 1:00:19
  I think he's out, tedious characters, are I think they got
• 1:00:23
  him so wrong. I don't like the fact that he
• 1:00:26
  doesn't want to explore time and space, and he kind of wants
• 1:00:29
  Clarity to come away from that because that makes us like her a
• 1:00:32
  bit less. I think Samuel answer is a very
• 1:00:35
  funny, very charismatic actor. I've been watching him in
• 1:00:38
  Trolley recently and he was Charming as hell.
• 1:00:41
  Why is he so boring and Doctor Who have no idea has to be the
• 1:00:45
  right thing, right? So yeah, I don't feel anything
• 1:00:49
  like oh you said it was very moving.
• 1:00:51
  At the end of deaf in heaven, I feel nothing at all.
• 1:00:54
  I wasn't but I didn't buy into their relationship at all.
• 1:00:57
  I didn't buy into his performance at all.
• 1:00:59
  So I'm just sort of left going and daddy said hurray, let's
• 1:01:04
  move on something more. Interesting, my biggest problem
• 1:01:07
  with these two part though, is the sequence in Afghanistan, in
• 1:01:12
  the first episode of Danny ping going into a building and about
• 1:01:15
  shoot a child. I think that's where you're
• 1:01:18
  doing the new adventures and Doctor Who shouldn't be doing
• 1:01:21
  the new adventures on the TV and that's uncomfortable questions.
• 1:01:24
  That children may ask and I don't think we should be going
• 1:01:27
  there. So, for all that first 15
• 1:01:29
  minutes of Dark Water, I think is some of the best Doctor, Who
• 1:01:33
  some of the best new certainly, in terms of performance, I just
• 1:01:37
  think it's totally misjudged and yeah, all over the place, like
• 1:01:43
  designed to irritate people. Well, guess what irritated me in
• 1:01:47
  it. Oh, that's another thing you
• 1:01:49
  were talking about. A couple of lines of dialogue
• 1:01:53
  that might fix the problems. I mean, we're supposed to think
• 1:01:55
  it's really moving at the end, when Dany sacrifices his chance
• 1:01:58
  to return to life to bring the child back.
• 1:02:02
  Except. oh, he's dropped using that hasn't aged in England with
• 1:02:08
  a woman who doesn't know, probably doesn't speak the
• 1:02:10
  language. Are his parents still alive?
• 1:02:13
  What is this child going to do? It is the children.
• 1:02:16
  Remember the whole being shot by Danny pink thing?
• 1:02:18
  It's just so It it leaves open. Too many questions.
• 1:02:24
  It's like it's presented like it's a happy ending but the more
• 1:02:26
  you think about it the more you think actually.
• 1:02:28
  No, that's not actually a happy ending at all.
• 1:02:30
  That's just Me Jason, if you don't care about the space
• 1:02:34
  corpses flying around up there, they don't care about that kid.
• 1:02:40
  so, You about this. Was this a happy ending for you?
• 1:02:45
  Why do I get two people being positive?
• 1:02:49
  I don't know why you Okay, so Man, it took me Danny.
• 1:03:00
  Pink is the lamest character in the tradition of Doctor Who
• 1:03:03
  companion boyfriends. Because just like, Mickey and
• 1:03:07
  Rory. The doctor and companion
• 1:03:09
  absolute assholes for this man. But unlike Rory, and Mickey, Who
• 1:03:17
  are down to travel and I don't know do anything exciting ever.
• 1:03:24
  He doesn't have that. So I don't feel that You know,
• 1:03:28
  he doesn't have that like if Rory just gotten hit by a car
• 1:03:33
  and oh he's dead. Now I think I'd have felt that a
• 1:03:35
  little more same. Same with Mickey I don't feel it
• 1:03:38
  with All right. if you're Dating someone who loves to travel.
• 1:03:46
  And you don't. That's not gonna work.
• 1:03:49
  At all like like you pretty much just saying to your significant
• 1:03:53
  other. I don't want to go on adventures
• 1:03:55
  with you like I'm not interested.
• 1:03:56
  Also how boring do you have to be like Danny?
• 1:04:00
  Pink is the fucking he's you know, how the doctor the end of
• 1:04:03
  Flatline says. Oh so I keep it doesn't like
• 1:04:06
  it's got no imagination. It's going to travel through
• 1:04:11
  time. Are you serious?
• 1:04:13
  Are you crazy? You don't need to go to planets
• 1:04:17
  all go, whatever you can play with me a PT show us like none
• 1:04:25
  of that, like you don't want it so you don't want to go on any
• 1:04:29
  adventures with you just never Other.
• 1:04:31
  Well, you know the dangerous Adventures too, right?
• 1:04:33
  Yeah. If?
• 1:04:36
  Get your ass in the Tardis. Oh yeah.
• 1:04:40
  So when he dies It's a shocking moment and all that and a lovely
• 1:04:44
  reaction to it. The Clara has, it's very real.
• 1:04:46
  But I don't feel that sympathy for him because he's just such a
• 1:04:52
  boring and interesting character.
• 1:04:54
  He's the character like he's, he's obviously not a doctor who
• 1:04:58
  fan. That's the character that in the
• 1:05:01
  comments dating doesn't really work.
• 1:05:03
  So I don't like that. and, So that's Danny that's that's his
• 1:05:11
  whole thing. I don't.
• 1:05:13
  I don't like that. I don't like him.
• 1:05:16
  Do we need to see the child and shooting the child and stuff
• 1:05:18
  like that? I don't know.
• 1:05:19
  I don't mind it in another show. Probably because like if I'm
• 1:05:23
  watching something else, it's probably geared to that
• 1:05:25
  audience. I don't know things a bit much
• 1:05:26
  for Doctor Who From reading. And you would eventually though
• 1:05:29
  I kind of expected it here you could say look you behaviors
• 1:05:36
  that come in this room and shoot you.
• 1:05:40
  All right? Yeah, well the afterlife scenes
• 1:05:44
  to do tend to be my least favorite.
• 1:05:45
  The Cremation thing is why not have hit me at the time but
• 1:05:50
  since then, my mum has passed away in just in the house sort
• 1:05:55
  of. So yeah.
• 1:05:57
  That hits a little differently now, and I don't like that that
• 1:06:01
  too much either, but there are things I do like about this.
• 1:06:04
  This story, The first 20 minutes are awesome.
• 1:06:08
  I think I love them. So I I did say I would let you
• 1:06:12
  guys know when we'd get to that moment that I was like Capaldi's
• 1:06:15
  Doctor Who now and someone and tell me what is on that plane
• 1:06:20
  and Jason's not gonna like this because it's like do you think I
• 1:06:24
  care for you? So little that make a
• 1:06:26
  difference. I'm going.
• 1:06:27
  Oh, I don't mind that whole betraying thing because it
• 1:06:34
  didn't really happen. It's all in class head.
• 1:06:37
  And all that. No, he actually did drug her.
• 1:06:40
  He actually he did drugs, he was going to drug him and destroy.
• 1:06:43
  The Tardis keys to get what she wanted.
• 1:06:44
  She did betray him just because he managed to avoid it actually
• 1:06:47
  happening. Yeah.
• 1:06:50
  I still kind of like the moment I think I give it to Clara
• 1:06:53
  because she's destroyed and probably well, not really
• 1:06:57
  thinking right? Because Here the guy man, that's
• 1:07:01
  messed up. The be talking to him on the
• 1:07:02
  phone at the same time. Like, that's gonna hit me hard.
• 1:07:05
  Let's say, okay, so I'll tell you what, that, I totally agree
• 1:07:08
  with you. On that one.
• 1:07:09
  I said at the time, it would have been better.
• 1:07:12
  I would have appreciated it more.
• 1:07:14
  If the doctor had said something like, yes you betrayed me, but I
• 1:07:17
  understand it was In the Heat of grief because that we're not
• 1:07:21
  thinking straight or anything else, but to just say, but I
• 1:07:23
  don't care because I care about you so much.
• 1:07:25
  That's just That I, for me, that's completely the wrong
• 1:07:29
  angle to take on why he still helping her after she betrayed
• 1:07:32
  him. Understanding the grief would
• 1:07:35
  have been a bit more palatable, I think just think about talking
• 1:07:37
  to her. Oh, you was gonna drug me.
• 1:07:40
  Oh, I was gonna drug you story for the next Christmas party.
• 1:07:45
  Yeah, I think it's Unrelentingly cruel and brutal to Daddy pink
• 1:07:51
  this whole time. So he's in the afterlife, he has
• 1:07:54
  to hang out with wish Mark Gators.
• 1:07:56
  As he's a brick the whole time, right?
• 1:08:00
  Then he gets converted into a Cyberman and then, as he's a
• 1:08:04
  Cyberman standing in the graveyard, he has to has to
• 1:08:07
  listen to Clara, tell him how awesome the doctor is and how
• 1:08:12
  she would never like to him. And he's just like, oh wow.
• 1:08:16
  Okay so uh, you know, he's probably thinking feelings of
• 1:08:19
  like us time for us to break up, but it's a bit late now. and
• 1:08:23
  then there's the other thing, whereas that, he's, he doesn't
• 1:08:25
  want his feelings or emotions anymore, and, or in order to I
• 1:08:32
  don't know, get the information they need.
• 1:08:33
  They need to switch his emotions off to do that.
• 1:08:36
  And while they're thinking about doing that is about 30 or 40
• 1:08:40
  other Cybermen in the graveyard, just hanging around, not doing a
• 1:08:44
  fucking thing and I'm like, well, their emotions are already
• 1:08:46
  off. Go use one of those, it's not as
• 1:08:49
  dramatic, of course. So it wouldn't, it wouldn't have
• 1:08:52
  worked. Its, I'm feeling what?
• 1:08:55
  what Joe's kind of feeling that there's good things in here, but
• 1:09:00
  This also things that I don't like, I like the doctor jumping
• 1:09:04
  out of the, you know, the airplane and and going into the
• 1:09:08
  into the tires, it is superhero week but I don't care.
• 1:09:11
  I'm gonna allow it. I like Missy, Missy didn't
• 1:09:15
  really work for me. The first time I watched the
• 1:09:19
  this this, but when I went really watch these with with
• 1:09:22
  Charity, kind of fell for missing away, I kind of hadn't
• 1:09:25
  and she really clicked for me this time around.
• 1:09:27
  I don't think it makes any sense when she's like, oh, he's this
• 1:09:33
  Army. I've turned the entire planet
• 1:09:36
  that you love into a load of robots and now you've got this
• 1:09:40
  fabulous Army me, my your friend.
• 1:09:42
  I'm giving you that Army to go and you know, correct things in
• 1:09:45
  the universe, what does Alex shit?
• 1:09:51
  There was no giving him an army is exactly what Kate does, as
• 1:09:56
  well. Hey both give him an obviously
• 1:09:59
  think that's what he wants. Yeah but I only one of them
• 1:10:01
  turns the whole of the earth into that Army and I mean, why
• 1:10:07
  would this super intellect Missy stroke?
• 1:10:11
  The master ever think that the doctor would go.
• 1:10:13
  Oh, thank you very much. Right let's go.
• 1:10:16
  It just doesn't the whole season's been building up for
• 1:10:19
  this ludicrous twist. It's more information.
• 1:10:23
  It's a moral Temptation. It's that the Milton is the
• 1:10:27
  clue. There, Missy is tempting.
• 1:10:30
  The doctor to take that Army would never be tempting.
• 1:10:33
  Pussy wouldn't, but it again is part of moffett's throwing this
• 1:10:36
  stuff out here. It's kind of its kind of an
• 1:10:38
  intellectual exercise. It's the same way that he takes
• 1:10:41
  Don't don't create me. Is a sensually, a repeat of the
• 1:10:46
  Trope of the premature burial that you find in Poe.
• 1:10:48
  He's just taking these things and moving them to the extreme
• 1:10:51
  and the same way with the dead child.
• 1:10:53
  It's totally awful for Doctor Who.
• 1:10:55
  But it's, again, this challenge around the inability to accept
• 1:10:58
  death, particularly in Britain. Look at the non-conventional use
• 1:11:01
  they passed over. They've gone away.
• 1:11:03
  They've gone to live on a farm. We just can't say, someone's
• 1:11:05
  dead. And so yeah, this is why I say
• 1:11:09
  it's a, it's a production, here's a lost, their mind, it's
• 1:11:11
  something you shouldn't find your doctor too.
• 1:11:15
  But it's there and it's how do we respond to it?
• 1:11:17
  Half the call, he dislikes. It I think John probably likes
• 1:11:20
  it and and but even within this kind of grueling discourse
• 1:11:26
  around you know converting the dead to make him into an army.
• 1:11:29
  So a really horrible act that has a potential good end.
• 1:11:32
  Yeah. Moffett's gone very odd by this
• 1:11:35
  point and probably he should have gone at season 7 but but by
• 1:11:38
  God he's on all cylinders at this point but I know this is
• 1:11:42
  what I would always say about it.
• 1:11:44
  Yeah. Is the strictly episodes the
• 1:11:46
  debates rage in the office seasons because he puts enough
• 1:11:50
  in there for you to talk about whether you're going to love it
• 1:11:53
  or whether you gonna hate it, he stir in the pot all the time and
• 1:11:56
  there's just loads to debate. I do love that about it.
• 1:12:00
  I think he fucking not for a terrible showrunner but I do
• 1:12:03
  love that about him with the dead.
• 1:12:05
  By this point Moffitt Arrangements.
• 1:12:06
  Syndrome was embedded in fandom as well.
• 1:12:08
  Yeah, it's there from study. By the end of five six, wraps it
• 1:12:12
  up and then like seven you got kind of maybe maybe we can detox
• 1:12:15
  and then you get eight and it is it's the heroine in the eyeballs
• 1:12:19
  or it's a suppository in the year or something and it is what
• 1:12:22
  you get from off and you're either on for the ride or not
• 1:12:24
  and not enough people. I think we're on for the ride
• 1:12:27
  after this. Yeah.
• 1:12:28
  Okay. Sorry Luke.
• 1:12:29
  We direct you there. That's all right.
• 1:12:31
  I'm a generating discussion. It's it's my hosting job.
• 1:12:35
  Yeah. I mean within an hour or one
• 1:12:38
  story? Yeah, I like, I don't agree with
• 1:12:46
  Joe here, but because I do like Kate Stewart know, I kind of
• 1:12:50
  always have but that's okay. Now you lift you left this here
• 1:12:54
  on one of your previous attempts.
• 1:12:56
  Yeah I love that. I'm sorry that's just really
• 1:12:59
  cool. And this all sorts of little
• 1:13:00
  moments that I absolutely love in this like the first 20
• 1:13:03
  minutes don't go through. Yeah.
• 1:13:08
  All sorts of things. But then this things that annoy
• 1:13:12
  me. Like how does it take the doctor
• 1:13:14
  so long to figure out who Missy is?
• 1:13:17
  I'm like, really, this is such a novel concept to you, even at
• 1:13:20
  the end when you think he's figured it out, he's like, wait.
• 1:13:23
  So who are you again? Come on, man.
• 1:13:27
  You're a genius. You're not this slow.
• 1:13:30
  You should be able to figure this out and so I could even
• 1:13:33
  makes him look silly and next episode Reddit osgoods like it's
• 1:13:37
  the master right? Yeah.
• 1:13:38
  Thank you. I was good because he's
• 1:13:39
  obviously like the audience character.
• 1:13:41
  Oh, it is worth know in, just how positive the reaction to
• 1:13:45
  that gender change was because that didn't have to go down.
• 1:13:48
  That way that Jody certainly did, you know?
• 1:13:51
  And and it almost went by not a notice it, but celebrated Yeah,
• 1:13:58
  that's interesting how that went I got.
• 1:14:01
  Well, we don't have to watch the master really get, you know.
• 1:14:07
  Yeah, I don't either it's it's a mixed bag, but I think what's
• 1:14:12
  gonna slay me here is something you said Joe.
• 1:14:15
  Where, and I had this feeling when I watched it and I and you
• 1:14:19
  reminded me of it of that first episode Dark Water.
• 1:14:22
  It has the first 20 minutes. And then the rest of the whole
• 1:14:27
  runtime is pretty much just waiting for the Cliffhanger
• 1:14:31
  because all of the cool stuff, all of it is in the next
• 1:14:35
  episode. So the next episode is about 10
• 1:14:37
  minutes longer as well. You could have made maybe put
• 1:14:39
  some of that in the freeze episode and maybe beef it up a
• 1:14:42
  little bit more. It's very holding pattern here.
• 1:14:44
  I guess at the end I like the reveals with the Cybermen.
• 1:14:47
  I don't mind. Is it the same place where they
• 1:14:49
  come out at the end as in The Invasion is that yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:53
  Right. Thank you.
• 1:14:56
  I don't know why my Landmark so. Well, I guess shame on me.
• 1:15:00
  I've seen The Invasion many times. but, yeah, it is holding
• 1:15:05
  patently and there are things that whilst I do, like, There
• 1:15:10
  are other things that make me cringe.
• 1:15:11
  I haven't brought it up yet. What takes the biggest?
• 1:15:13
  That's things the most about cyber bridge is You had how many
• 1:15:20
  seasons to put him in a cameo by now.
• 1:15:22
  How many you might have been able to pull this off?
• 1:15:26
  With the side with rig, maybe maybe be able to pull cyber big
• 1:15:30
  off. If We got to see me there.
• 1:15:33
  Still, we got the same meat, tenant doesn't have to, he
• 1:15:36
  doesn't have to, he was old by, then he doesn't have to be front
• 1:15:38
  and center. He could be in a Time Eddie, you
• 1:15:41
  know, talking about Andes and clowns, or something.
• 1:15:44
  You could do anything, it's Doctor Who.
• 1:15:46
  But He he's not in it, he never makes an appearance.
• 1:15:51
  This is his, what new Who debut as a Cyberman?
• 1:15:54
  And it's a bit it stings, it's things and it just reminds me of
• 1:16:00
  you had years to put Nicholas Courtney at least once in your
• 1:16:04
  show. It's actually shocking.
• 1:16:05
  How little big finish used in this world before he passed?
• 1:16:08
  I think maybe five years in, which is Sarah, Jane don't care.
• 1:16:12
  Yeah, we did make it one. I'm sorry.
• 1:16:16
  Thank you. Might have worked better if we
• 1:16:18
  hadn't already had a proper? Yeah, well to the brain because
• 1:16:23
  that moment in wedding of river song, where the doctor is, told
• 1:16:27
  that, the Brigadier has passed away and he always poured, an
• 1:16:30
  extra glass, just in case the doctor turned up.
• 1:16:32
  I mean, I admit I welled up at that and I thought that was a
• 1:16:35
  beautiful way to acknowledge the passing of Nicholas Cortney and
• 1:16:39
  basically signed the Brigadier to pass Dr, Who characters that
• 1:16:43
  we're never gonna see again, and then a couple of years later,
• 1:16:46
  this fucking Thing happens. I've seen that photograph of the
• 1:16:51
  Cyber break where someone was super imposed a mustache on the
• 1:16:54
  Cybermen. So often now that when I watched
• 1:16:57
  the episode and the hasn't got on the stash I'm like, well,
• 1:17:00
  who's that? That mean don't have to make a
• 1:17:09
  decision. It's it's long-winded but I
• 1:17:11
  think negatives probably the way the positives even though I
• 1:17:15
  really do like some of the positives so we're yeah I'm
• 1:17:18
  gonna in the first story I talked about well my god look so
• 1:17:20
  I'm gonna go within the bin but John Yeah, I I'm funny enough.
• 1:17:27
  I'm with Paul on this because I do think Steven, Moffat knows
• 1:17:32
  what he's doing with this all the way up preface it by saying,
• 1:17:35
  it's one of those and I think it's like some like having said,
• 1:17:40
  it is not one that I would pick up to watch as that moment, you
• 1:17:44
  know, if I want to watch a Doctor Who God know.
• 1:17:47
  I want something lighter. I've got some like husband's a
• 1:17:50
  result and Android something like but that's why I think it's
• 1:17:56
  great. And I absolutely agree with
• 1:17:57
  what, you know, what Jason said, what size said about that side,
• 1:18:01
  heart set of baked. It, it is spiky.
• 1:18:04
  It is nasty, it reaches too far. But I can see why it's doing
• 1:18:10
  that every time. But this is a kind of a
• 1:18:13
  satisfying story to me for the art, because I think the thing
• 1:18:16
  to understand about particularly this season and it happens in
• 1:18:20
  the next thing as well, is that they go for the opposite from
• 1:18:22
  Matt Smith cliche easily. He's the old man and a young
• 1:18:26
  man's body. Capaldi.
• 1:18:28
  He's the first regeneration of a new cycle, he started again.
• 1:18:31
  He's a young man in an old man's body.
• 1:18:34
  He doesn't understand the human and that's why you're getting
• 1:18:37
  all the good man stuff. It's basically, the doctor going
• 1:18:40
  back to a teenagers trying to understand the world again.
• 1:18:44
  And this a character you how he treats Danny.
• 1:18:47
  It's not not nice to watch but teenagers aren't particularly
• 1:18:49
  nice people, you know. For all we might try when we
• 1:18:53
  don't do that. So and I think it's quite
• 1:18:57
  satisfying in how it wraps that up because it will wrap that
• 1:19:02
  whole Andy Soldier thing, which I think is a little too strong
• 1:19:05
  through his season. Because it does come up with the
• 1:19:08
  soldiers promise that you're sleeping at night.
• 1:19:12
  And the thing about the Cyber break, yeah, I can see why it's
• 1:19:15
  crossed, but I can see my mother.
• 1:19:16
  Did it? Because the question is asked
• 1:19:19
  whether the doctor's back to kill Missy, you know, his oldest
• 1:19:22
  best friend, who will save your soul.
• 1:19:25
  And there's your answer, the Brigadier every time.
• 1:19:28
  Yes, he would. That's what the Brigadier would
• 1:19:30
  do even Beyond Death. Rickety is just a person.
• 1:19:34
  How is the biggest and overcome the, the process and saves his
• 1:19:40
  friend. He's everybody else, he's just a
• 1:19:44
  person he's superhero, he just does the best, he can.
• 1:19:48
  Okay, so you know, it's a doctor.
• 1:19:51
  This is the probably doctors ultimate relationship with the
• 1:19:55
  human. He will save us all.
• 1:19:58
  What our climax to that relationship.
• 1:20:00
  Absolutely Works doctor. Having to confront death in that
• 1:20:07
  last episode is part of growing up is part of maturity.
• 1:20:12
  It's part of him coming to terms with this new life again. and I
• 1:20:17
  think, as well as that this, these whole two episodes, ask
• 1:20:21
  Steven Moffat basically confronting mortality
• 1:20:24
  confronting death because I think he had Certain people I
• 1:20:28
  think this was a ring maybe around times parents real
• 1:20:31
  certainly I know he lost his parents of this time so he is
• 1:20:34
  confronting it too. So I think he's making something
• 1:20:36
  he had to write his way through. And yes, and and there's that
• 1:20:41
  thing about death being ordinary about Danny pink.
• 1:20:46
  It's understated. That's what's a good.
• 1:20:49
  My wife was watching. She's a big fan too.
• 1:20:52
  And she said, I hated this, because it was so mundane
• 1:20:55
  because it was so ordinary because it was just Genuinely
• 1:20:59
  tragic for the way. It's all about that shot of
• 1:21:02
  Clara when she stood in the middle of that street.
• 1:21:05
  It is just gorgeous. It's just, you know, we have you
• 1:21:09
  mentioned Rachel, Talley yet that works so well.
• 1:21:12
  But that short poll was talking about in the graveyard.
• 1:21:14
  I just don't feel a thing. I'm sorry.
• 1:21:17
  So maybe it might be the filter. I can't see much.
• 1:21:22
  And yet, and it's almost the whole story is Steven Moffat
• 1:21:28
  asking Doctor, Who, what good are you in the face of real life
• 1:21:32
  tragedy? And we that's not too weakness
• 1:21:34
  of former, it cannot cope with real tragedy.
• 1:21:36
  You know, you've got the end of spiteful where, you know,
• 1:21:40
  enduring it can't and what happened to her.
• 1:21:43
  Oh, she went off and she got killed by the Nazis.
• 1:21:46
  I can't change that. So again, it's the same thing
• 1:21:49
  that this is asking what good are you?
• 1:21:52
  You know, good it can't it can't do anything. and I think that,
• 1:21:58
  cremation thing is, well, I'm gonna start your not going to
• 1:22:03
  conduct because I think it's hard, I think.
• 1:22:06
  In in one of these, more seasons with character and Jenna
• 1:22:10
  Coleman. They aren't the app.
• 1:22:12
  They aren't someone a warmer presence.
• 1:22:15
  Like poor Mackie will be like Catherine.
• 1:22:17
  Tate was like Premiere and particularly Piper.
• 1:22:22
  It's, it comes across harsh, they are properly acting these.
• 1:22:26
  They are not going to provide you with comfort and kind of
• 1:22:29
  what you need to sell that horror.
• 1:22:32
  On a TV show, like Doctor, Who is comfort?
• 1:22:35
  And there is no Comfort there. I say that cremation thing the
• 1:22:40
  three words thing. I can come up with that because
• 1:22:43
  that is part. I think it's there because
• 1:22:47
  that's part of the side men's plan.
• 1:22:48
  If they're looking to harvest you in body, they don't want
• 1:22:51
  people cremated. Particularly these Super Rich
• 1:22:54
  are going to pay them. Well, that's all right, then.
• 1:22:57
  Oh, I don't say it was good, but it's there as part-time.
• 1:23:01
  So they have more bodies later on.
• 1:23:05
  So they don't have these to have this.
• 1:23:07
  Because this is only the people who've actually died that get to
• 1:23:10
  hear this word. It's not the people who before
• 1:23:12
  they die, because the person that he is, the don't create me,
• 1:23:16
  he's dead. They have no way of
• 1:23:17
  communicating that the people who are about to create them
• 1:23:20
  saying, actually don't do that. Yeah, it's a rubbish plan.
• 1:23:23
  They meet them. You know, it's they, it's a
• 1:23:26
  super rich, they're dark. I mean, there's a guy called
• 1:23:28
  Brian Johnson who's dieting and exercising, as if he can live
• 1:23:34
  forever. He's a mere Santee, billionaire.
• 1:23:37
  Apparently, not a, that's a million.
• 1:23:39
  Not a billionaire. He's basically one of these
• 1:23:44
  super rich people who thinks he can defy death who can live
• 1:23:47
  forever and you go in. Yeah she bounces weakness may
• 1:23:50
  not be the direct number living. It's at the Super Rich.
• 1:23:53
  A fucking stupid and will happily find these stupid plans
• 1:23:58
  But what more could you what? It's more time to capitalism and
• 1:24:01
  action here. And it's yeah, it's horrible.
• 1:24:05
  It's spiky. It's odd.
• 1:24:09
  But yeah, but Peter Capaldi Jenna Coleman Michelle.
• 1:24:15
  I mean, Michelle got I love the way.
• 1:24:16
  She's just not that train, just brings of it. she is such a
• 1:24:24
  genuinely and hinged away. I don't think I ever saw was
• 1:24:28
  John simm. Was acting mad Michelle Gomez
• 1:24:31
  you don't know what the hell she's going to do next.
• 1:24:33
  You know, that potential of that Osgood scene.
• 1:24:37
  It's because she could be doing anything next.
• 1:24:40
  She could, she could let just play with her.
• 1:24:44
  Just toy with the flowers. oh, yeah, it's so I think That's
• 1:24:51
  thematically I, this is what I would describe.
• 1:24:53
  I think it's a first time. anyone has done anything
• 1:24:59
  interesting with the sidemen, possibly since their debut in in
• 1:25:02
  that because they are Essentially techno zombies that,
• 1:25:05
  you know, they're part Living Part there.
• 1:25:07
  The machine, they're in caring. It makes sense.
• 1:25:10
  It's really making them these absolutely horrific creatures.
• 1:25:16
  It's laying it right into the horror them.
• 1:25:18
  What would it be like to be a side man?
• 1:25:19
  That's why that last shot of Dark Water is the delete thing
• 1:25:23
  with Danny. It's a horror of you would have
• 1:25:27
  to pick being a side man. You would have to make that
• 1:25:29
  choice to delete your emotions. And it is horrible.
• 1:25:33
  You know, these the people uploaded to The Matrix and then
• 1:25:39
  there being forced by them by Missy by whoever's doing it
• 1:25:43
  three W Christmas character they are Giving the choice to become
• 1:25:49
  inhuman. And I think, What you see with
• 1:25:53
  Missy is in particular, is it? If you are the long life, if you
• 1:25:56
  go beyond your time, you become to some degree in human stupid.
• 1:26:01
  And I think it's but, I think the same for me.
• 1:26:08
  Is that what it ends up with? Is that, is that a conclusion
• 1:26:14
  that in the middle of life as that?
• 1:26:17
  It comes inclusion that all we have each other.
• 1:26:20
  All the doctor has is his friends.
• 1:26:24
  And you know, it's trite. But it's kind, that's kind of
• 1:26:28
  there is a heartbeat that I think gets missed.
• 1:26:30
  So yeah, I would put it through But it's in the bin.
• 1:26:36
  So praise is happy. I just like, it's so interesting
• 1:26:39
  because we did top and tail there with two defenses of that
• 1:26:43
  story, but when you both sort of said what the show shouldn't
• 1:26:47
  really have gone here, but it's so bold and experimental and
• 1:26:50
  pushing the boat out there. I don't know if we can equate
• 1:26:53
  that with success, when the overall reaction was, this is
• 1:26:57
  fucking miserable like, should we be, should we be alienating
• 1:27:03
  this? Many people?
• 1:27:04
  To create. I don't think so.
• 1:27:07
  We met with David Lynch early and it's the same thing for me,
• 1:27:10
  it's that there are multiple, should that be there.
• 1:27:13
  But Lynch goes all after 9:00 doctor, who goes on at 6:00?
• 1:27:17
  Absolutely, we should move on to the second story.
• 1:27:21
  I wear an hour and a half in now, that's a rich story that we
• 1:27:25
  started. Jason, isn't it?
• 1:27:28
  I think next. So.
• 1:27:29
  Jason, will you Champion? Or will you condemn?
• 1:27:33
  Well, to the massive surprise of absolutely nobody, I'm going to
• 1:27:38
  kill, kill the moon. Oh wait, hold on, hold on.
• 1:27:47
  I I am going to kill, kill the moon, as I said, there are good
• 1:27:50
  things in every episode and there are some great things in
• 1:27:53
  Kill the moon. Once again, A large part of that
• 1:27:57
  is down to Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman that final scene
• 1:28:00
  all though, I hate the entire premise.
• 1:28:03
  That final scene between them is electrifying.
• 1:28:06
  Jenna is so good. At the outrage and emotional
• 1:28:12
  response to what she's been through.
• 1:28:13
  I think it's really captivating, television, and Capaldi's so
• 1:28:17
  good at the. I just I don't actually
• 1:28:19
  understand what's happening here but I know it's bad.
• 1:28:23
  So I think that you know they're great, it looks gorgeous, the
• 1:28:26
  moon escapes that they shot on landsat with the ability they've
• 1:28:29
  got now to play with the colors so they can make it look more
• 1:28:33
  like a moonscape. Is, I mean, it looks fantastic.
• 1:28:38
  Up to a space nut such as me obviously I'm still looking at
• 1:28:42
  it going. Yeah, that's a that's an earth
• 1:28:44
  location but of course it's an earth location.
• 1:28:46
  They didn't actually go to the Moon to film this.
• 1:28:48
  What they've done with what they had was fantastic and I really
• 1:28:51
  like that. I also actually quite like the
• 1:28:55
  doctors relationship with Courtney Woods.
• 1:28:57
  Courtney Woods is probably the least annoying child character
• 1:29:00
  in The Moffitt era. I think she the moment she came.
• 1:29:07
  She met with my approval as it were, is actually in the episode
• 1:29:10
  immediately before this, in the caretaker where she encounters
• 1:29:14
  the doctor. And he manages to basically cut
• 1:29:16
  through all her crap. And she just says, well, I'm
• 1:29:18
  screwed anyway because everyone thinks I'm a failure and you
• 1:29:22
  think actually you start to feel a bit sympathy for her.
• 1:29:25
  And so, actually, having her on here is, is not too bad.
• 1:29:28
  She has her annoying moments. Like, did you really think I'm
• 1:29:31
  not special for crying out loud, but, I quite like that, but
• 1:29:37
  there is Stuff in here that just made me go.
• 1:29:40
  Nope. And it's not the Moon is an egg.
• 1:29:45
  I can get on board with that. That's a very Doctor Who he kind
• 1:29:48
  of concept I can totally get on board with that.
• 1:29:50
  It's everything that they surround that with.
• 1:29:55
  Now I, you know, Joe's always telling me he doesn't know how I
• 1:29:58
  watched Doctor Who, when I pick holes in the science in it so
• 1:30:01
  much, we saw little details, you focusing on sometimes, you know?
• 1:30:04
  It's for me it's not that the science needs to be 100%
• 1:30:08
  correct? Because I don't need to know how
• 1:30:11
  they travel faster than light. When they've got Interstellar
• 1:30:13
  spaceships, I don't need to know how they do.
• 1:30:15
  Instantaneous communication over Interstellar distances.
• 1:30:20
  I don't need to. I don't care about the planets.
• 1:30:22
  I don't care about the alien life forms.
• 1:30:23
  How they all work? That's I don't give a damn.
• 1:30:27
  But when the story includes actual science in the plot,
• 1:30:32
  makes it a key part of the plot and fucks it up.
• 1:30:37
  That's when I get really frustrated.
• 1:30:39
  And this one is absolutely full of it.
• 1:30:42
  I made about three pages of notes and it's just lots of
• 1:30:49
  little things that just add up to.
• 1:30:50
  This is a mess. I mean, you know it's a nitpick
• 1:30:54
  but it looks cool. But a space shuttle cannot get
• 1:30:57
  to the moon and in the time they had to retrofit the space
• 1:30:59
  shuttle, they'd have been better off making an actual moon
• 1:31:01
  landing vehicle. It's certainly can't survive a
• 1:31:06
  crash landing on the moon. It's not built to do that and
• 1:31:09
  there was even the bloody Tire screeching sound when it's just
• 1:31:15
  this is ridiculous. So strong I chose for the drama
• 1:31:18
  of it. A space shuttle will not survive
• 1:31:21
  a crash landing on the moon. It just won't.
• 1:31:24
  There's not built that way. The doctors gravity test.
• 1:31:30
  I like that. He's doing the weird movements
• 1:31:33
  and he says he's doing gravity test.
• 1:31:34
  But then he says, we should all be floating around like little
• 1:31:37
  fluffy clouds and it's like, no, it's still one sick, the Earth
• 1:31:41
  gravity that's plenty to hold you down.
• 1:31:43
  There's hours of footage of astronauts very much not
• 1:31:47
  floating around. Like this little clouds on the
• 1:31:49
  surface of the Moon. We know what this is like you
• 1:31:51
  know this is an actual place, we've been there.
• 1:31:54
  Don't even start with anyone suggesting we have haven't.
• 1:31:56
  That's not we have been there. We've got loads and loads of
• 1:32:00
  footage of What It's Like on the moon.
• 1:32:02
  They talk about Apollo in this story.
• 1:32:06
  The doctor uses a yoyo as a gravity test because, and his
• 1:32:09
  reference to the Bennett oscillator, someone's calling
• 1:32:11
  back to the Ark in space, except that a yo-yo will work perfectly
• 1:32:15
  well on the moon, because it's not driven by gravity.
• 1:32:17
  You drop it with a bit of an input.
• 1:32:21
  Impulse, and it's the spinning and the angular momentum.
• 1:32:24
  That makes it climb back up the string.
• 1:32:25
  Astronauts have used yo-yos on the International Space Station.
• 1:32:29
  It's not a gravity driven device.
• 1:32:31
  Jason, give a little moon, is an egg in this episode.
• 1:32:34
  I don't know that arise done too much research.
• 1:32:37
  Anyway, and done any. My my favorite one that I even
• 1:32:42
  at the moment when I was watching it, I thought, oh, for
• 1:32:45
  crying out loud. A door in a spacecraft is not an
• 1:32:48
  airlock just because it leads out into space.
• 1:32:52
  And on a space shuttle, why would you need to label the door
• 1:32:56
  as an air lock? It's not a properly doors where
• 1:32:59
  you're looking for the gents and actually accidentally booking to
• 1:33:01
  space. You know, this is just I think
• 1:33:05
  it's ridiculous. They talk about, you know, they
• 1:33:08
  can't communicate with Earthly because the satellites have all
• 1:33:11
  been whacked out of orbit, okay? Yeah, if the gravity changes
• 1:33:14
  that might well impact, the satellites probably won't
• 1:33:16
  because they're far close to Earth and the moon but okay,
• 1:33:19
  fine. But you do not need a satellite
• 1:33:21
  to talk to the Moon. You just point the bloody radio
• 1:33:24
  receiver at it ham radio, Enthusiast to the 1960s listened
• 1:33:28
  in on the Apollo transmission from the Moon.
• 1:33:31
  It didn't you don't need a satellite.
• 1:33:33
  The mineralogical survey that was up there.
• 1:33:35
  Found no minerals on the moon. A rock is a mineral for coming
• 1:33:41
  out. The moon's.
• 1:33:43
  Surface is minerals. You can't not find minerals on a
• 1:33:47
  rocky surface, that is a contradiction in terms.
• 1:33:50
  Later on Clara says the moon's, not made of rock, It's Made of.
• 1:33:53
  Eggshell, eggshell is Rocky. Chemically speaking.
• 1:33:58
  The shell of a large component of the shell of a chicken's egg
• 1:34:02
  that you have, you know, crack through to get your breakfast is
• 1:34:06
  indistinguishable from the White Cliffs of Dover.
• 1:34:08
  It's calcium carbonate, eggshell is Rock.
• 1:34:11
  It's just very, very thin Rock. Got you on board a scientific
• 1:34:15
  advice. You know, is your favorite?
• 1:34:18
  The Moon is an egg and it's gained 1.3 billion.
• 1:34:21
  Tons, don't gain Mass, that's not how they work.
• 1:34:25
  The creature inside isn't appearing.
• 1:34:26
  Out of nowhere. Its restructuring, the mass
• 1:34:28
  inside and yeah, Nation as well. It gives birth to something the
• 1:34:33
  same size as it as to not affect the toys in any way, shape, or
• 1:34:37
  form. Yeah, it's a miracle.
• 1:34:38
  It also these stated a couple of times that the extra mass is 1.3
• 1:34:43
  billion tons and that has somehow made the gravity on the
• 1:34:46
  moon, the same, as the Earth's The the moon already weighs 74
• 1:34:51
  billion billion tons. This is a change of mass of
• 1:34:54
  0.000 to percent that's going to do fuck all to the gravity.
• 1:35:02
  I move the mask calculator. The mass that she holds the tax
• 1:35:09
  returns in the last episode, the depth.
• 1:35:11
  Yeah, Courtney starts floating through the air in the thing
• 1:35:16
  because the mass underneath has moved and that's made the
• 1:35:19
  gravity disappear. That's not how it works.
• 1:35:21
  Mass and gravity of very, very real fundamental physical
• 1:35:25
  forces. You don't get to play with them
• 1:35:27
  in that way. That's not an explanation, you
• 1:35:31
  know, there's there's I mean prokaryotic spiders.
• 1:35:35
  With teeth, highly improbable. We will say is it's science
• 1:35:41
  fiction. It's not even Science Fiction.
• 1:35:44
  It's just it's just a mess. What about the hole, okay, at
• 1:35:48
  the end of it, the voting system is turn off your lights.
• 1:35:51
  You've got 45 and only the half of the earth that's in the dark
• 1:36:01
  with the Light song gets the vote and only even on that side.
• 1:36:07
  Only the bits of human civilization that have
• 1:36:09
  streetlights. Get the vote.
• 1:36:13
  And that's just absolutely turn it off if it's yes, or turn it
• 1:36:17
  on, I can't turn your lights off, if you want us to kill it.
• 1:36:20
  Oh, why millions of people needed a dump there and they
• 1:36:23
  needed to see in the toilet? You know, you need more than a
• 1:36:26
  little pair of binoculars, looking out of a window to see
• 1:36:29
  if the lights were going off across the Earth.
• 1:36:32
  And I mean, it's just it's such a mess.
• 1:36:37
  I was just groaning throughout because they don't.
• 1:36:39
  Oh, and Clara says, what would be like with no moon.
• 1:36:41
  Well, there'd be no phones and no internet.
• 1:36:45
  Well, we had phones before we had satellites because that's
• 1:36:48
  the whole point is whacked. All the satellites out, no
• 1:36:50
  phones, no internet. And we have internet cables
• 1:36:52
  Under the Sea, we have mobile phone masks.
• 1:36:55
  It's not all set to like bass, we would still have these
• 1:36:58
  things. And it's just it just I'll give
• 1:37:02
  them a couple of passes though, one?
• 1:37:05
  Yes, a spray bottle, will not work in a vacuum.
• 1:37:09
  Kick. For that one.
• 1:37:11
  I will also give them a pass on the statement.
• 1:37:14
  The doctor makes that the moon has been trembling alongside the
• 1:37:16
  Earth for 100 million years. Tick.
• 1:37:19
  Because no, because our guest is cross, moon is about 4 billion
• 1:37:23
  years old. However, in the Doctor Who
• 1:37:26
  continuity in the silurians, It came along about 100 million
• 1:37:31
  years ago and got caught into orbit.
• 1:37:33
  Now, I'll give that one a pass because the silurians was
• 1:37:35
  written before. We actually had a really good
• 1:37:38
  idea of where the moon came from before we'd collected rocks and
• 1:37:41
  analyzed them and found out where it came from.
• 1:37:42
  So, I'll give them a pass on that one, but basically all the
• 1:37:46
  science that goes around the Moon, being an egg in this
• 1:37:49
  episode is such a mess. I just could not enjoy it
• 1:37:52
  because they were literally piling on Incorrect, after
• 1:37:56
  incorrect, after incorrect statement.
• 1:37:58
  It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, this isn't how it works.
• 1:38:01
  I mean, even things like the close-up of the shuttle as they
• 1:38:03
  exit it. Everybody knows, surely
• 1:38:06
  everybody has seen the pictures. The shuttle is covered in those
• 1:38:09
  heat resistant tiles. No sign of them.
• 1:38:12
  So now you know Jason Howe Ian Levine felt when he got Warriors
• 1:38:17
  of the deep with all those continuity references that So,
• 1:38:21
  yeah, so basically there's just so much awful science in it
• 1:38:25
  which is not even complicated, Advanced science.
• 1:38:29
  It's really, really basic science and understanding is
• 1:38:34
  just so utterly wrong that I just cannot get into this
• 1:38:37
  episode. I will say that.
• 1:38:43
  My second reason for being frustrated with this at the time
• 1:38:46
  was that this is a Stephen moffatt has two things, which
• 1:38:49
  bug me particularly when he's writing arcs either he brings us
• 1:38:55
  into something that really should have been set up but
• 1:38:58
  hasn't been ever and it gets explained later like the whole
• 1:39:01
  gamma Forest long, bloody war against the doctor business in a
• 1:39:05
  good mangoes towards or what? The whole plot is based on this
• 1:39:09
  thing that we have never heard of before, ever, and it gets
• 1:39:13
  like a couple of lines in Time of the Doctor when you realize
• 1:39:17
  he really should wrap that up before he moves on to the next
• 1:39:19
  doctor or He does something where he'll set, he'll do
• 1:39:23
  something at the end of an episode, which sounds like it's
• 1:39:25
  setting up a long-term thing, and then he'll go straight to
• 1:39:27
  it. So at the end of the care taker,
• 1:39:30
  Danny said, one day, the doctor will push you too far and when
• 1:39:32
  that day comes come and see me and lo and behold next episode
• 1:39:36
  that day come which leads me on to my third reason, for binning
• 1:39:42
  this episode, which is again, the Doctor, companion
• 1:39:47
  relationship, not being anything.
• 1:39:50
  Like what I want to see from a doctor Penny relationship, the
• 1:39:53
  idea of the doctor testing His companion or forcing His
• 1:39:56
  companion into an ethical choice.
• 1:39:59
  Without a not helping is awful, this is it.
• 1:40:02
  The doctor would understand that this is a difficult Choice, he
• 1:40:07
  would maybe say I can't tell you exactly what's going to happen
• 1:40:10
  but to actually fuck off and leave her on the moon.
• 1:40:14
  Potentially about to blow herself up and in an inherently
• 1:40:17
  hostile environment. It's not like he's pissed off
• 1:40:19
  and left her in Brighton, where she has a difficult choice to
• 1:40:22
  make, but if it all goes wrong, she's home on Earth and she can
• 1:40:25
  get a bus home or something like that.
• 1:40:26
  He's fucked off and abandoned her on the moon.
• 1:40:31
  And then it's like, I knew you'd make the right choice.
• 1:40:33
  It's I don't like this whole thing, which has become the
• 1:40:37
  modern who's thing of the doctor selecting his companions, and
• 1:40:42
  testing them, and making them the best of the best.
• 1:40:44
  The whole point of the companion is that they are the audience,
• 1:40:46
  I'd identification figure. They are the ordinary person
• 1:40:48
  who's been swept up into an extraordinary situation.
• 1:40:51
  I only take the best for Strictly, Come hamster, Jason
• 1:40:54
  in. Well obviously, because look,
• 1:40:56
  who's you've got with us, you know, clearly with the best but
• 1:41:00
  you know, I I hate that. I absolutely hate that and so
• 1:41:03
  this is me respecting, you know, you're not respecting her by
• 1:41:06
  pissing off and making her make the choice on her own without
• 1:41:09
  even offering her any support. So that's just no that's not
• 1:41:14
  what I want to see the doctor in the companion, doing so this
• 1:41:17
  episode. This episode can get in the bin.
• 1:41:21
  I'm getting the impression. You don't like this episode.
• 1:41:23
  Jason I don't and I don't even I don't even care that.
• 1:41:27
  The Moon is an egg that is a fantastic Doctor, Who concept?
• 1:41:30
  And yes, I like the idea that maybe it is an egg and if it
• 1:41:34
  hatches somehow something else will take its place or something
• 1:41:37
  will happen or whatever. But the way it's just presented
• 1:41:40
  is so messy and awful and just ah, no.
• 1:41:47
  I mean I can't wait to see where this wherever this one is all
• 1:41:50
  goes. It's gonna be so interesting.
• 1:41:51
  I'm interested to see. I know a lot of people like this
• 1:41:54
  one but Shall we start with the comments?
• 1:41:57
  John? Let's do it.
• 1:41:58
  George Cooper. Oh.
• 1:41:59
  Well, should we keep the same older?
• 1:42:01
  Yeah, let's do it. Very confused like artist.
• 1:42:05
  Dave, Winnie another podcast here says, I like kill the Moon.
• 1:42:10
  Yes, the Moon is an egg thing is silly.
• 1:42:13
  The guest characters are boring and Courtney is annoying, but it
• 1:42:16
  has one of the best scenes in Capaldi's rather on Clara
• 1:42:19
  telling the doctor to sod off as he's been.
• 1:42:21
  A prick, is one of the few times, I actually agree with
• 1:42:24
  her. And Edward cook Reese, I really
• 1:42:29
  want to like this episode, great atmosphere Carson Direction, but
• 1:42:33
  it's room for me by the Moon, being an egg Stella.
• 1:42:37
  Seen at the end with the doctor and Clara James hadwin Bennett
• 1:42:42
  would have been substandard if they'd made it an alien Moon.
• 1:42:46
  By making it Earth Moon and make it into it.
• 1:42:50
  An idea that takes embarrassing you death.
• 1:42:55
  And still it's not the worst of the run.
• 1:42:57
  You the fucking thing out of orbit.
• 1:43:00
  Here we goes champion of the Damned Fraser.
• 1:43:03
  Gregory says, those of you about to complain, that the Moon is an
• 1:43:07
  egg, you're watching the wrong thing, the Moon is just a
• 1:43:10
  MacGuffin, the real story is the tops are making Clara, chews,
• 1:43:13
  and the impact it has on them and their friendship and it's a
• 1:43:17
  cracker a real slice of make your character suffered drama
• 1:43:21
  Doctor, Who is the brim with stories, where science doesn't
• 1:43:25
  make a lick of sense. Penny.
• 1:43:26
  Jason, this is just another open up your suspension of disbelief,
• 1:43:31
  and enjoy it for what it is. Dark challenging and full of
• 1:43:34
  creepy Moon, spiders, keep keep, keep keep going to say it again.
• 1:43:39
  Doctor Who is absolutely for the stories where the science
• 1:43:41
  doesn't make a lick of sense. But very rarely is it actually
• 1:43:44
  significantly plot relevant and a major point in the plot that's
• 1:43:49
  where my disbelief stops being suspended.
• 1:43:53
  My season 10 can Freer a jack Koya.
• 1:43:57
  It's a great final section as the doctor and Clara gets
• 1:44:00
  stretched to Breaking Point. The doctors forced their friends
• 1:44:03
  through carelessness malice or alien curiosity.
• 1:44:06
  It's a similar, no good choice, moral quandaries.
• 1:44:09
  Genesis goes like Father's Day Etc and it's a great example for
• 1:44:14
  anti-power people that she does actually show emotion to what is
• 1:44:17
  going on around her. The story drags a little to get
• 1:44:20
  to this point and it cuts and evenly to get supported
• 1:44:23
  characters back home again. But this is a fascinating rare
• 1:44:26
  experiment. Michael storms.
• 1:44:29
  Says it starts off. Pretty good with the mystery
• 1:44:32
  building up some good. Safe scares with the spiders.
• 1:44:35
  The halfway point, it goes horribly.
• 1:44:39
  Hey and probably unwittingly becomes a dodgy Whitten right to
• 1:44:45
  choose Parable in which the choice is overruled in, David
• 1:44:51
  Gillespie Pratt says it looks like they took a short story
• 1:44:54
  from the mid 70s annual and decided to put it on the screen.
• 1:44:58
  Some nice atmospheric seems here but then the Moon is an egg.
• 1:45:02
  The Moon is an egg. Which hatches and is replaced by
• 1:45:08
  another rig. Just Okay, guys, you know the
• 1:45:13
  drill with this next one. I want to hear those bigs.
• 1:45:16
  How big that come on? I said big not small.
• 1:45:21
  Big give me a big. Give me an orange.
• 1:45:26
  I give me a Michael Myers know it's orange.
• 1:45:42
  I'm sorry, I'll turn you into this joke.
• 1:45:44
  I apologize not nearly as horrible as I've seen reported
• 1:45:50
  online. Was it great?
• 1:45:51
  No. But they still isolated moments
• 1:45:54
  to recommend. Oh, Chris is starts off, okay,
• 1:45:59
  but as silly as Doctor, Who gets he usually maintains.
• 1:46:03
  And in a logic, which is somehow believable, the Moon being an
• 1:46:06
  egg, which hatches a creature that immediately lays and
• 1:46:09
  identical to the one that came out just goes way past it
• 1:46:15
  Bennett. It's even got the same Trend
• 1:46:17
  quality and all the other cities that they mentioned.
• 1:46:19
  Yeah. The Intriguing, his household
• 1:46:22
  Euro Ginge says, aside from the very stupid Central plot idea,
• 1:46:26
  it has some of the best doctor companion, trauma, or any
• 1:46:30
  episode. Carrot star very concisely.
• 1:46:34
  We don't talk about Moon zero out of town talk about Moon.
• 1:46:41
  Does says kill the Moon is brilliant.
• 1:46:45
  Consoles. People are being now trade
• 1:46:47
  Doctor, Who in the lower end of 12, but by no means bad.
• 1:46:51
  I quite like the idea of it. Courtney coming along, was a fun
• 1:46:54
  inclusion and it's a very significant point in 12 and
• 1:46:58
  Clara's relationship, very underrated episode.
• 1:47:02
  Daniel raisley. I actually like all the one to
• 1:47:05
  be interested Horan. Claustrophobia in this one.
• 1:47:07
  The metaphors also a bit more poetic than we give it credit
• 1:47:10
  for. But, of course, Best in Show is
• 1:47:13
  Clara, ripping. That bastard doctor.
• 1:47:18
  Coleman Capaldi are not even framed in the same shot
• 1:47:22
  together. Nice.
• 1:47:24
  Daniel Knight says starts off quite well, but goes, downhill
• 1:47:29
  the moon as an egg idea and he's at least of his problems.
• 1:47:34
  Although the part where 12 abandons Clara, Never Be Cruel
• 1:47:38
  or cowardly. As Uncle Terrence said, why is
• 1:47:41
  words that are foolishly ignored often in The Moffat era, but
• 1:47:45
  never more. So, then, yeah, we got some very
• 1:47:48
  short comments to end this on Kieran, pal says, killed the
• 1:47:52
  moon can go in the bin. Eric breaks, on the other hand
• 1:47:56
  I'd like to see kill the Moon too pleased.
• 1:47:58
  Oh god, with extra science here. In Moore says, I would like to
• 1:48:04
  see kill the moon through know uh kill the Moon is solid and
• 1:48:07
  it's ludicrous, ludicrous, twist and King Henry the first, hello
• 1:48:14
  sir. Thank you for joining us.
• 1:48:16
  Really come hand. So just for tonight, still
• 1:48:18
  gobsmack that Clara fought. The US President should speak
• 1:48:21
  for the moon, not to get political, but the big orange
• 1:48:26
  one, I'm assuming, that's not Michael would be in that
• 1:48:29
  position under her rules. Most, well, I think we need to
• 1:48:34
  go to Luke maybe for this one. Look wow.
• 1:48:37
  Okay, turning the lights at here.
• 1:48:40
  Maybe look. There's a storytelling Trope
• 1:48:44
  that this has the doctor who doesn't do it that often.
• 1:48:48
  Who would on occasion old who almost never did it?
• 1:48:51
  And I think they do that's the story for telling trophies.
• 1:48:55
  Oh my god. Look Bulshit is happening.
• 1:48:57
  Look at this over here. Look at this over here and look
• 1:48:59
  at this over here. Oh my God.
• 1:49:01
  I mean, Theme tune. 24 hours earlier.
• 1:49:06
  No, I don't. Now I know where you're going.
• 1:49:08
  You've killed the tension until we get up to that bed.
• 1:49:11
  I know. This is really, I don't that's
• 1:49:14
  It's not here. That was the Alias format.
• 1:49:17
  Yeah, it's yeah, it's not a its It has been done.
• 1:49:22
  Well, I think I liked it when Guy Ritchie, did it in the
• 1:49:25
  gentleman, or you played around with that kind of stuff, Paul
• 1:49:28
  fiction, plays around things and stuff, I don't mind sometimes
• 1:49:32
  when this kind of thing is done but but the way of doing it off,
• 1:49:36
  here's all the cool shit. Now you're gonna have to wait
• 1:49:38
  until we get up to that. I'm like, why can't we just pick
• 1:49:41
  up from? No, no we can't.
• 1:49:43
  So now I know where they end up and its really annoying this
• 1:49:47
  shuttle in the moon stuff little great.
• 1:49:49
  There's a pretty good atmosphere and it really creepy Vibe.
• 1:49:53
  It's sadly leads that ink but I like the attitude to space
• 1:49:58
  travel in this because it reminds me of the attitude of
• 1:50:01
  space travel in the seeds of death and this is What is this
• 1:50:05
  set a couple decades before the seeds of death?
• 1:50:08
  So this isn't not won't be too long to build a trans man, all
• 1:50:11
  that lovely stuff, I can't wait for that.
• 1:50:14
  Can't wait for Rocket travel in 2818 either. so yeah I like that
• 1:50:18
  that that that part of it so someone's at least knows the
• 1:50:22
  seeds of death and this time period and Future Doctor Who I
• 1:50:26
  love the idea of Courtney I do. But the actor, isn't that great?
• 1:50:33
  I'm scared. Miss in monitoring.
• 1:50:37
  I'm just like what? I'm bored like just can't find
• 1:50:41
  good child actors, can they? It's it's baffling how bad they
• 1:50:45
  are. And the more fear I want to like
• 1:50:47
  Courtney. The concept is is is pretty cool
• 1:50:50
  and and it's fun. I like I like that.
• 1:50:56
  She comes along for this trip, but it's like taking that
• 1:50:59
  teacher from Ferris Bueller's Day Off along with you.
• 1:51:02
  She's just doing like, on board I'm scared, you know, you on the
• 1:51:08
  motherfuking moon in the future. Are you seriously bored?
• 1:51:13
  Also. All right.
• 1:51:14
  You gonna wait in the Tardis. I like how everyone in every
• 1:51:17
  Doctor Who story likes to make, make it seem like Waiting in the
• 1:51:21
  Tardis is bad. I'm like it's in there.
• 1:51:25
  I'm sorry. I'm not the biggest library of
• 1:51:27
  ever seen him alive in formats. I don't even know exists.
• 1:51:30
  I'm I'm good. What you would?
• 1:51:35
  Not only that he better have like a PlayStation 10 in there,
• 1:51:39
  you know, 500, that's right. I want the PlayStation 500 if
• 1:51:45
  I'm not going out there on the moon.
• 1:51:47
  He's got to have a couple consoles or something in there.
• 1:51:49
  I want to like the idea of Courtney.
• 1:51:51
  I like her inclusion in this. It's just the performance is a
• 1:51:54
  bit, still to them and and kind of boring I have ADHD too, so I
• 1:51:58
  use my phone a lot when is, but I don't think I see myself using
• 1:52:03
  it. That often, if I was, like, on
• 1:52:05
  the moon, unless charity with me, then I'd be ringing around,
• 1:52:07
  going shit. so, Like this things are like, but this is that Trope
• 1:52:16
  there. I can't get into Courtney and I
• 1:52:19
  don't like the egg that gives birth to another egg.
• 1:52:24
  And it's like but the eggshell has like the same like there's a
• 1:52:31
  save of Tranquility there. There's like you know as I said
• 1:52:33
  all the other seas and like Wouldn't he actually?
• 1:52:38
  A little different. Now what And then yeah, like me
• 1:52:43
  waiting for Australia to pop up and also turn that lights on.
• 1:52:46
  Come on. You know, but unless we don't
• 1:52:50
  even really, you know, it's just like for me right now.
• 1:52:53
  It's daylight. I don't get to terminate stuff
• 1:52:56
  and for you guys, it's all night time.
• 1:52:58
  So, I guess what I'm going to say is, yeah, let's let's kill
• 1:53:03
  the moon in the bin. Oh, Joe.
• 1:53:08
  Hello. What are you doing to this or
• 1:53:13
  dragon egg Dragon? Oh, kill the Moon.
• 1:53:17
  I mean, it's been tracked through the gutter.
• 1:53:20
  This one hasn't it when they're asked, you know, truly loaf some
• 1:53:24
  episodes of the state for Moffitt era and this is the one
• 1:53:28
  that everyone picks on which like Jason said, fabulous
• 1:53:32
  location work, stunning production values, scary
• 1:53:36
  spider's genuine drama in it. Fantastic performers is on the
• 1:53:41
  whole. However, I have got a list of
• 1:53:43
  things I don't like about it as well, Norris is so forget about
• 1:53:49
  this, isn't she? She's really great actress.
• 1:53:52
  I have a place. Somebody extremely grumpy
• 1:53:54
  throughout this and she leaves no impact on me whatsoever.
• 1:53:58
  My issue with Courtney is she's on fucking social media and
• 1:54:03
  being excited about being in this artist and on the moon I
• 1:54:07
  also wrote that the moon laser and Upper Lake Are baffled as to
• 1:54:11
  why the doctor fucks off? I don't think is adequately
• 1:54:13
  explained the lights on and off. So everything you've already
• 1:54:18
  mentioned However, I would like to save kill the moon because I
• 1:54:25
  think the last scene is a better example of what John and Paul
• 1:54:30
  were talking about in the last two episodes.
• 1:54:33
  And that is I don't like what is doing at all with their
• 1:54:38
  relationship. It's great drama.
• 1:54:43
  That last scene. It's a pair of the best
• 1:54:45
  performance. Is your ever gonna see from two
• 1:54:48
  actors out there a game? It really makes me
• 1:54:51
  uncomfortable. And that means they're doing
• 1:54:53
  something really, really good there.
• 1:54:55
  I think Jenna Coleman is never better than the fury, she
• 1:54:59
  Unleashed and yet still quite understated.
• 1:55:02
  She is not hysterical. She's not David Tennant
• 1:55:05
  hysterics. She Contains it.
• 1:55:07
  But fuck me. How half?
• 1:55:09
  No fury like a woman scorned and it's Clara Oswald It was gonna
• 1:55:16
  alien out a lot of people. It dude, alienate a lot of
• 1:55:19
  people, it probably we never should have gone there.
• 1:55:23
  Just once just once I'm really pleased, we did.
• 1:55:27
  I think it's all done in mummy and I really unsatisfying way.
• 1:55:31
  I don't understand why she wants to go with him at the end, the
• 1:55:34
  mummy because they don't have the conversations.
• 1:55:36
  You just goes well, that was a fun adventure.
• 1:55:38
  I'm back on for the ride after all the miserable stuff.
• 1:55:41
  She's gone through here and this is a lot better than people.
• 1:55:45
  Give it credit for Jason. I understand all your scientific
• 1:55:48
  reasons to be in this. Unfortunately, I'm the person
• 1:55:51
  who watches Star Trek and does a podcast on it and literally
• 1:55:54
  switches off when the technobabble hits screen.
• 1:55:57
  So I don't care about any of the science.
• 1:56:00
  I care. Does it make me feel?
• 1:56:01
  Am I enjoying the characters doesn't have good set pieces.
• 1:56:04
  Yes, yes, yes. I think this is a bit of a
• 1:56:08
  winner in terms of how it is presented possibly, not in how
• 1:56:12
  it's written at times. Let's keep kill the moon.
• 1:56:15
  What to, what Paul are you going to bin, or?
• 1:56:23
  Are you going to let it Blossom and blue?
• 1:56:26
  I think there was something really fascinating.
• 1:56:33
  And my word of the night goading.
• 1:56:37
  To put. A discussion about abortion in
• 1:56:41
  the middle of BBC's. Prime Time drama on a Saturday
• 1:56:45
  night and it wasn't an episode of casualty.
• 1:56:48
  Because Courtney does describe the thing in the egg as a baby.
• 1:56:53
  Someone picked up, and it didn't they?
• 1:56:54
  In the in the comments that it's a comment, it's becomes about
• 1:56:58
  choice, and it does become about choice and it isn't abortion
• 1:57:02
  metaphor. Again, as with discussions
• 1:57:04
  around death, in the end of the season, should they have done
• 1:57:08
  it? Probably not.
• 1:57:09
  Oh, my glad they did it. Absolutely, because you wouldn't
• 1:57:14
  get it anywhere else, and you won't get it again and quite
• 1:57:18
  rightly. So, you wouldn't get it again,
• 1:57:19
  it looks fabulous. I I have to, I have to defer to
• 1:57:25
  your knowledge. Jason, I'm scientifically
• 1:57:28
  illiterate like most of the British viewing public, so there
• 1:57:31
  watching this and they don't know it's wrong.
• 1:57:33
  What's on the screen is for dramatic purposes.
• 1:57:37
  It's to up the tension in the in the heart and all that
• 1:57:43
  production dies that were published last year.
• 1:57:46
  They referenced a serving, the BBC took in 61 or 62 about the
• 1:57:50
  British Public's. Attitude towards science
• 1:57:53
  fiction. With the aim of making a tapping
• 1:57:57
  into the interest in. The space race.
• 1:58:03
  And whether there was any legs and having a science fiction
• 1:58:05
  program and the results came back, that know by and large the
• 1:58:09
  British public, don't like hard sci-fi, they like science
• 1:58:12
  romances, or they like science Adventure.
• 1:58:15
  And that's what Dr. Who tends to be the idea of it teaching
• 1:58:20
  science. That didn't last particularly
• 1:58:22
  long any more than its teaching about history.
• 1:58:25
  And I think there's something to the idea that when they do try
• 1:58:28
  and do hard sci-fi. What it's accurate or not say
• 1:58:32
  season, 18 pick up a point. Simon, I think Joe on one of
• 1:58:36
  these on when you do an 80 and I think and James said it as well,
• 1:58:39
  the viewing figures. A weird rating.
• 1:58:44
  One of the reasons for the dip is that people are doing their
• 1:58:46
  Christmas shopping. Because, of course, you don't
• 1:58:47
  have a Sunday trading at that point, but then when they come
• 1:58:49
  back after Christmas, they watch Warriors gate and they just
• 1:58:52
  don't understand it. And it looks like hard Cypher.
• 1:58:54
  Certainly looks like and of ideas.
• 1:58:56
  It looks stunning, but it's alienating.
• 1:58:58
  And when you try to get on that route, I don't know how far the
• 1:59:01
  British public go with. If you know these things of
• 1:59:04
  course is absolutely infuriating and I can see why you'd eat your
• 1:59:06
  own head rather than watch this. But for the general public, it's
• 1:59:11
  to ratchet up the tension. It's it's starts off the space
• 1:59:15
  horror and it does it really really well.
• 1:59:17
  I think that the spider is a phenomenal and then it dumps
• 1:59:20
  this discourse around Choice into the into the middle of it,
• 1:59:24
  including the doctors choice to go away because it becomes a
• 1:59:27
  doctor Light episode halfway through in a really interesting
• 1:59:30
  way and it forces Clara. To take control.
• 1:59:34
  So if we've now got Clara as control freak in this season,
• 1:59:38
  which we're told repeatedly, she is she now has to take control
• 1:59:41
  and take on that role. But because it's a democracy,
• 1:59:45
  they then get this. What you've all said, absolutely
• 1:59:48
  stuff about the vote, but it might be a comment on vote as
• 1:59:53
  well. Whoever made the comment there
• 1:59:54
  about that is President Trump. But of course, this is, this is
• 1:59:56
  before the election, so they've got no way.
• 1:59:58
  No knowing the Trump, unless you went with the Simpsons fantasy,
• 2:00:02
  of trump being president now, of course, we living through that
• 2:00:04
  fantasy, have become reality for the second time.
• 2:00:07
  I'll put my hat. It's So I really really like
• 2:00:13
  this. And I think Joe John, you're
• 2:00:15
  right that last scene between Coleman and Capaldi is
• 2:00:18
  phenomenal. I someone said on for the first,
• 2:00:23
  for the discussion about the first two, The last two stories
• 2:00:27
  are episode rather that they're in this kind of really horrible
• 2:00:30
  abusive relationship and there is a element to that they're
• 2:00:33
  kind of locked into each other and it really uncomfortable way.
• 2:00:36
  Now if it is replaying the relationship between Perry and
• 2:00:40
  the sixth doctor from 22 which on one level, I think it is what
• 2:00:44
  you get here is. Clara can really push back
• 2:00:48
  against him in a way. Period is really give them the
• 2:00:50
  opportunity to do so in 22 and it makes all the difference.
• 2:00:55
  I would have loved this thing in 2012.
• 2:00:57
  Yeah. But you don't get it, why she
• 2:01:00
  doesn't walk away because there's a sense in which the
• 2:01:03
  doctor, corrupts her as we'll see in, in mummy, when she lies
• 2:01:07
  to Danny at the end. That's a crucial moment because
• 2:01:10
  it locks her in. Absolutely.
• 2:01:12
  So the doctor there's a scent and you get it there at the end
• 2:01:14
  in face the Raven. When she's hanging out of the
• 2:01:17
  TARDIS and there's a kind of a sense of a danger junkie or
• 2:01:21
  there's a death drive going on there, almost at that point,
• 2:01:23
  there's something almost looking in or anti-canadian.
• 2:01:42
  He's already embedded it here or it's fortunate is there because
• 2:01:46
  if Jennifer was meant to go and then they have to work until
• 2:01:49
  9:00. He, it's already bedded in that
• 2:01:51
  she's become addicted to this this danger.
• 2:01:54
  I think Luke's point about Danny is interesting, but of course
• 2:01:57
  and it you can marry with John's point about how the doctor
• 2:02:01
  doesn't exist in the real world and he's no good in these real
• 2:02:04
  life scenarios. Why you put Danny is an old
• 2:02:07
  Soldier because he seen the extremes of Life as a lived
• 2:02:11
  reality on our world, what a Moffat set in all world or not
• 2:02:14
  on there, for the science Rules. Don't apply is a is another
• 2:02:17
  question. And so what you get in Clara is
• 2:02:21
  the choice between Ordinary life.
• 2:02:24
  And this super ordinary life that the doctor offers.
• 2:02:26
  And at this point, she's absolutely locked into this,
• 2:02:29
  this, this Supernatural life or other, just after this.
• 2:02:33
  That's when she walks into it. This is the point where she
• 2:02:34
  walks should walk away but she doesn't.
• 2:02:36
  And yeah, Joe, you're right. There's a Lacuna as to why she
• 2:02:39
  states. But that end scene is
• 2:02:42
  phenomenal. I keep it all day long.
• 2:02:45
  This this easily in my top three or four for the season.
• 2:02:48
  Well, you'll say there is like, you know, here we are bad at the
• 2:02:51
  next one, even manipulates in the two off the bat, you boys
• 2:02:55
  and then he corrupts like what this is a really unpleasant
• 2:03:00
  Journey she's going on. He, it's, it's the new
• 2:03:04
  adventures put onto the screen. Mirroring of season. 25 and 26
• 2:03:12
  is a Briggs vision of the of the future.
• 2:03:15
  What you then get is, let's see how it pans out.
• 2:03:18
  And and as an experiment it's fascinating to watch what wasn't
• 2:03:23
  particularly keen on a lot of the new adventures, but I really
• 2:03:25
  like this, but for the ordinary viewing public, who wouldn't be
• 2:03:30
  used to Capaldi. That's the other thing.
• 2:03:31
  Capaldi's big hit prior to this that Tom Baker's aren't wind
• 2:03:36
  would have watched was as Carla. A lot of the thick of it never
• 2:03:42
  got Beyond 1.2 million. If you didn't watch the thick of
• 2:03:45
  it I don't think you meant to watch in the loop and that
• 2:03:48
  hospital comedy that he's in with Joanna.
• 2:03:51
  Scanlan. If you remember him, you might
• 2:03:53
  remember from Local Hero but that was a long time ago and
• 2:03:55
  then turning up. Yeah.
• 2:03:57
  In various ITV things and then as doing his Sinister, buffer
• 2:04:01
  salesman talk. So The other problem, of course
• 2:04:04
  is how far Capaldi in this is a fantasy version of Moffitt. just
• 2:04:11
  as Colin Baker is a fantasy version of jnt The Moth history
• 2:04:15
  repeating itself and it Ends. Same thing again.
• 2:04:21
  And I don't know, they do get it right but it's it's incredible
• 2:04:25
  to watch. I mean Capaldi hands down is the
• 2:04:27
  best actor have the role, whether they're right to cars or
• 2:04:30
  not, I have serious serious doubts.
• 2:04:32
  That you go back to an old man, but I am better because it, and
• 2:04:35
  I was trying to remember who said it alongside, it was you,
• 2:04:38
  of course, and he said again, see, it's a new cycle, he's
• 2:04:41
  learning life again, again, you almost want something that's
• 2:04:45
  made that clear and not get tied up and white.
• 2:04:48
  He picked the face because that's Nonsense story which you
• 2:04:52
  should have just had calling him back again.
• 2:04:53
  I know I look like that commander in Gallifrey, if
• 2:04:55
  you're going down that route but it's just so weird this season
• 2:04:59
  but probably. So I think you need to be like
• 2:05:03
  you, John me, long term fans that are gonna study and examine
• 2:05:08
  and watch all of this stuff and see all the patterns that isn't
• 2:05:12
  the general public and it's going out for the general public
• 2:05:15
  in a general, public family time slot.
• 2:05:18
  Well, I mean, it's later on on a Saturday night, though, isn't it
• 2:05:20
  was getting late and that's the other problem he had moved away
• 2:05:23
  from teeth because it's getting sweet because because it's on
• 2:05:26
  later in the year, it's getting squeezed by strict, it's getting
• 2:05:29
  pushed back late release into the season and that's having an
• 2:05:32
  impact, I think, on who's watching it, how they watching
• 2:05:35
  it and you're right, I mean, it's I'm Jason.
• 2:05:40
  You said the use of the car so all the child actors bar.
• 2:05:43
  One are terrible. I mean, they're absolutely
• 2:05:45
  abysmal. I mean, they should have just
• 2:05:47
  gone and got just lump to load of money to get anyone half,
• 2:05:50
  decent, in some children's TV programs, they could have done
• 2:05:53
  better than the children. We get here.
• 2:05:54
  So there's a weird sense of which you put children in.
• 2:05:57
  Does it appeal to children know because you're now doing a
• 2:06:00
  discussion about abortion and really kind of manipulative way
• 2:06:03
  because you're talking about babies rather than fetuses or
• 2:06:06
  baby dragons and he that sits really uncomfortably with
• 2:06:09
  nothing, but it was Brave to do it.
• 2:06:12
  It was stupid to do it but I enjoyed the right.
• 2:06:14
  So keep it all day long. Two, keep two bin, okay, I'll
• 2:06:20
  just want to pick up on the thing about, you know, I yeah,
• 2:06:22
  most of the general public. Don't know about the science and
• 2:06:25
  everything else. And that's, that's a fair point.
• 2:06:27
  But I would always say that in some respects, that makes it
• 2:06:30
  even more significant that you either get it right?
• 2:06:34
  Or don't include it at all. Yeah, I agree with that.
• 2:06:37
  Yeah. He should always have a type of
• 2:06:40
  didactic purpose. We were still in that region
• 2:06:42
  mode, I think and he does a disservice not to do it but
• 2:06:45
  we've got what we've got and they're not doing it as signed
• 2:06:48
  so really isn't. They shouldn't have done it
• 2:06:50
  because they couldn't get it. Right?
• 2:06:51
  That's right. It's like no people like me are
• 2:06:54
  watching going oh that sounds like they know what they're
• 2:06:57
  doing. Yeah, and then on the other
• 2:07:00
  thing I was you were talking about the comment on votes, it's
• 2:07:03
  like yeah. Okay so the vote is to be
• 2:07:05
  turning your lights off. Well, I mean I can turn my
• 2:07:09
  lights off. If I want, I can turn my lights
• 2:07:15
  off but unfortunately your vote counts now.
• 2:07:19
  All right but I don't have control over the street lights
• 2:07:22
  outside. So this is not you know it's
• 2:07:24
  portrayed as the human race deciding but whatever floats
• 2:07:29
  have power over the, the street lighting across the country that
• 2:07:32
  are actually. It isn't the general public
• 2:07:37
  switching off the lights. I don't control the streetlight.
• 2:07:39
  That's outside my house. They're not thinking those terms
• 2:07:42
  that this is connective tissue, in these stories is just not.
• 2:07:45
  There, there is moments, it's events.
• 2:07:47
  It's jump from one to the other. Once you start analyzing it
• 2:07:50
  falls apart, it's fantasy, it's not science.
• 2:07:53
  It's science fantasy again. No, talking points, even fantasy
• 2:07:58
  needs some internal logic though and that's been that's missing
• 2:08:01
  heavily in this whole season. I think.
• 2:08:04
  Yeah. Okay.
• 2:08:05
  So How will we got to talk to get to 45 minutes?
• 2:08:10
  Just so I can quote that we got four five minutes to decide
• 2:08:13
  here. Oh well done.
• 2:08:15
  Right, not longer this, right? Yeah.
• 2:08:17
  Unfortunately I haven't got the listeners.
• 2:08:22
  The numbers out there to ask them to split their lights on to
• 2:08:25
  make it even performing. Its.
• 2:08:28
  I I was going into this and I didn't know where I stood on it,
• 2:08:33
  to be honest. Because it is an absolute mess.
• 2:08:38
  You know, it is that ADHD moth at home?
• 2:08:41
  It goes from space horror that first half.
• 2:08:45
  And the second half is a completely different debate all
• 2:08:48
  together. It's two stories in one and
• 2:08:50
  they're completely unrelated. The idea that this egg will
• 2:08:55
  produce those Fighters is really I love the spider.
• 2:09:00
  They are the bloody terrifying. Look at the teeth on those
• 2:09:05
  bastards. It's awful.
• 2:09:07
  But again, I don't know if this Jason on the science of it, this
• 2:09:12
  single cells that didn't seem to make sense at all.
• 2:09:16
  No, it didn't also piece of Capaldi mispronounces, the word
• 2:09:20
  because he calls them Pro coric and the word is prokaryotic, but
• 2:09:25
  that's a minor niggle. But yeah, I was looking at that
• 2:09:28
  thinking. Yeah, really, I mean, I'm
• 2:09:30
  looking at that spider and it's seems to have jointed legs and
• 2:09:33
  teeth and Hairy Bits all over it.
• 2:09:35
  So that doesn't seem like a single celled organism that
• 2:09:39
  being said, That being said, there are single-celled
• 2:09:43
  organisms. That do have some pretty
• 2:09:45
  impressive features. Like, you know, they have hair,
• 2:09:50
  you know, cilia which they use to move through water and things
• 2:09:54
  like that. So it is possible for a single
• 2:09:56
  celled, organism to have different features like that.
• 2:09:58
  So, But you, you give that a slight pass just about.
• 2:10:04
  Its amongst everything else. It's not clear enough to say.
• 2:10:07
  Absolutely. This is not because the main
• 2:10:10
  thing about prokaryotic organisms is, I mean, yeah.
• 2:10:13
  Okay. They're singles sold.
• 2:10:14
  But the main thing about prokaryotic with is, as the
• 2:10:17
  doctor says, they don't have chromosomal DNA.
• 2:10:19
  They're DNA is is floating around inside their cells.
• 2:10:23
  It's not divided up into neat, chromosomes for the vision like
• 2:10:26
  we have in ourselves. So it's possible that it could
• 2:10:31
  be prokaryotic. And you know, I'm not going to
• 2:10:35
  it's not it's not like they did that you know in in a good man
• 2:10:38
  goes to war where they show a DNA double helix with a weird
• 2:10:41
  strand of something else. Going down and going look it's a
• 2:10:43
  Time Lord thingy. It's like no if you do that it
• 2:10:46
  stops working as DNA. That's so, so listen to me.
• 2:10:50
  Strictly Come hamster. Audience out there.
• 2:10:52
  Don't you tell me you don't learn anything on this podcast
• 2:10:54
  or write it all up. He HD at the end of this one.
• 2:11:02
  yeah, again, this is essentially replaying the doctor from
• 2:11:06
  Genesis in the same way that I did mention it, but definitely
• 2:11:10
  have was replaying father's days.
• 2:11:12
  Dilemma. Except the doctor again as he
• 2:11:17
  does. The he Advocates it.
• 2:11:19
  What I liked the suggestion at the end of the story, is that
• 2:11:24
  one that lasting Clara? He she suggests that, he's
• 2:11:29
  manipulating her into that into that position.
• 2:11:32
  And it's this gray area of history, and I think he
• 2:11:35
  absolutely does my reading of it.
• 2:11:38
  He, you know, in if that timeline goes originally, its
• 2:11:42
  Hermione narcissist character, basically blows the shit, the
• 2:11:45
  Moon. So is this some kind of disaster
• 2:11:48
  is there? You know, a pyramids of Mars
• 2:11:50
  type future where we suddenly have no moon and we're all
• 2:11:53
  screwed. I don't know.
• 2:11:56
  But what he does as well with that lighting.
• 2:12:00
  That as has been said, it's the power Barons would be
• 2:12:04
  controlling those lights to only significant degree that they
• 2:12:07
  could ever be seen if they could ever seen which, of course they
• 2:12:09
  can't. But what he does.
• 2:12:13
  He takes that choice away from these big powerful men. and puts
• 2:12:19
  it in the hands of You know, three women who you can,
• 2:12:23
  essentially put the two represent, the old Maiden mother
• 2:12:26
  Chrome stereotypes. That's a free trike tripartite
• 2:12:30
  kind of female thick, he puts a choice, which is pretty explicit
• 2:12:35
  about abortion. Even if they say they that
• 2:12:37
  wasn't their intention. He puts actually put the word on
• 2:12:41
  the screen in massive layers. yeah, and yeah, but I love that,
• 2:12:49
  that moment of choice because Coleman plays out so beautiful
• 2:12:53
  story. It's a beautiful.
• 2:12:56
  It gets you straight into the story, gorgeous and captures
• 2:12:59
  him. And I love the fact that, you
• 2:13:02
  know, this is referendum. Where they make the human race
• 2:13:07
  makes a bloody stupid Choice. Let's face it by the logic of
• 2:13:10
  the story. Let's go.
• 2:13:12
  Now, fucking it's art choice. We can do it America to die.
• 2:13:17
  I mean, we can't, we mistake, we live in Britain.
• 2:13:20
  We have no, he's not, certainly not. and yeah, and the story
• 2:13:28
  that there's It's all about the choice.
• 2:13:32
  It's all written to get to the choice.
• 2:13:34
  It's messy, it's horrible. But a choice seems to be played
• 2:13:39
  and that last story. Again, I think it's that Doctor.
• 2:13:43
  Who's just this up, he goes away, he puts it in the hands of
• 2:13:47
  the human race because He wants human race to have this cup
• 2:13:50
  particularly power to have this autonomy.
• 2:13:53
  I think the new adventure thing we were saying earlier is good
• 2:13:55
  because I don't think this is Season 22.
• 2:13:58
  This is season 25 and 26 because what the doctor does in 25 and
• 2:14:03
  26 is also quite unpleasant to race and the idea for her was, I
• 2:14:08
  think to go off into Target Academy.
• 2:14:11
  So, essentially become the doctor and that's the same thing
• 2:14:14
  that Clara's Ark is actually, she wants to be the doctor, she
• 2:14:18
  think she can be the doctor. I mean, I don't think he's
• 2:14:20
  deliberately manipulating her, like McCoy was with us.
• 2:14:25
  But yeah, you're right McCoy's. Absolutely awesome.
• 2:14:28
  Ice the Seventh Doctor into uncomfortable situations in the
• 2:14:34
  same recorded show. Can you imagine this scene with
• 2:14:38
  Sophie deodorant? Know, get back in your bloody
• 2:14:43
  charges and Fuck off. No, I can't.
• 2:14:46
  No no. You so this is I think when you
• 2:14:51
  could only do with the kind of motto team, which is To actors
• 2:14:58
  of this caliber going at each other and selling it.
• 2:15:01
  And selling that. I think you're it's drama.
• 2:15:06
  It's it's not science. It's it's almost not interested
• 2:15:09
  in the science and I can actually understand how that
• 2:15:12
  really would take Jason complete.
• 2:15:14
  That story, I believe in and outs of what he's done or any of
• 2:15:19
  that. None of its important.
• 2:15:20
  The performance is so raw there, it's about the relationship.
• 2:15:24
  And yeah, and I love that, the lands are rocky shot the way,
• 2:15:30
  that's the texture of that landscape as well.
• 2:15:33
  That is how you use Lanzarote in a Doctor, Who's do not do is use
• 2:15:40
  Lanzarote as an alien landscape, and then set half your story on
• 2:15:43
  actual Lanzarote. So that you can't tell that
• 2:15:46
  you've moved to a different place.
• 2:15:48
  So I think. Yeah, I was, I was 50/50 on it
• 2:15:56
  coming and I think just watching it.
• 2:15:58
  And again, I will agree on the side, but I think that scene the
• 2:16:03
  parody Coleman seen that and healthy relationship.
• 2:16:06
  I think I just about put it through So, oh, it's in the
• 2:16:11
  past. Well done, kill the Moon.
• 2:16:14
  I mean that's that is definitely the form of Strictly Come
• 2:16:16
  hamster, dogs. All go through to round two.
• 2:16:19
  I'm gonna ask so I think we're on to the second batch of
• 2:16:23
  comments now. Well remembered.
• 2:16:26
  Oh, I want to keep this match off.
• 2:16:28
  I can do. Let me just find it.
• 2:16:30
  Okay. Okay, so we'll be says this was
• 2:16:34
  the era, I started to fall asleep when watching oh maybe it
• 2:16:39
  was the latest slot on an Autumn night or the longer less choppy
• 2:16:44
  edits to see the finale was all right.
• 2:16:47
  Remember thinking a lot. Series 8 was a tad, boring to be
• 2:16:51
  honest. And some of these titles blur
• 2:16:53
  into one your family, Phoenix, 24, brilliant.
• 2:17:00
  Strong episodes from start to end.
• 2:17:03
  Kevin B, anchor. I like a yeah.
• 2:17:06
  Top stuff there from. Kevin straight away.
• 2:17:07
  Mommy is one of my favorite Capelli, stories and the other
• 2:17:11
  stories would write. No less than three out of five.
• 2:17:13
  Also Jenna Coleman, a cocktail dress, Oh my days now.
• 2:17:18
  Get there. I can't argue with that point to
• 2:17:21
  be perfectly honest. If you even I can argue with
• 2:17:23
  that point you know this is a theme of Jenna Coleman.
• 2:17:26
  It Jenna Coleman is turning. You isn't she Joe?
• 2:17:28
  She's usually when she's in Rich you know like in Genesis center
• 2:17:34
  of the childish as well. Oh, that Indie kind of just
• 2:17:41
  realized, you know, this might be the most heterosexual call
• 2:17:44
  I've ever been on before. That's not the most.
• 2:18:02
  That's contested. Lovely.
• 2:18:06
  Dan Hollingsworth who I had the pleasure of seeing yesterday,
• 2:18:09
  Epsom says, mummy and Flatline, are great fun.
• 2:18:13
  Exciting Doctor Who episodes with lots of innovation and were
• 2:18:16
  thoroughly enjoyable. The others were not.
• 2:18:20
  My most succinct strictly comment yet.
• 2:18:22
  Well done. I heart.
• 2:18:26
  It starts so high, but it falls so low.
• 2:18:30
  You see, I'm sad now, that size, sad.
• 2:18:34
  He wanted everyone inside when it's gonna be enough that his
• 2:18:41
  favorite stories, he's in 151. Strange decision that.
• 2:18:46
  But the right one, mummy and Flatline remained.
• 2:18:48
  The Capaldi year is Pete's for me, beautifully written stories
• 2:18:51
  that capture the few things I like about his doctor.
• 2:18:53
  The last two part was so badly. Judge and horrible.
• 2:18:57
  What went wrong. That was such a dramatic
• 2:19:00
  statement from Psy. I'll put it in both the finale
• 2:19:03
  comments. And this one, Paul Arthur, I
• 2:19:06
  really enjoy, mummy and flatlined.
• 2:19:08
  There is a definite theme emerging in these comments.
• 2:19:10
  There's a lot of love for mummy and flat lines.
• 2:19:13
  So the interesting to see if that's represented in this in
• 2:19:16
  this group of five. Even kill the Moon is better
• 2:19:20
  than its reputation, but the season finale, leaves a bad
• 2:19:23
  taste in the mouth. It's just unpleasant.
• 2:19:25
  Daniel Knight says, Jamie Mathison contributes to gems,
• 2:19:30
  but they're diamonds in a very horrible rough patch.
• 2:19:35
  We met him was really great and I was really disappointing when
• 2:19:37
  he said something Twitter that he was done with Doctor, Who
• 2:19:39
  then it was a real shame that killed the moon Forest, Dark
• 2:19:43
  Water, and death in heaven, represent the very worst not
• 2:19:46
  just the Moffitt era the whole show itself.
• 2:19:49
  Don't worry Daniel. I think you're represented here
• 2:19:52
  in Json. Yeah, I agree with that comment.
• 2:19:56
  Kieran pail says not as bad as everyone says.
• 2:19:59
  Yes, it is. Kill the moon can go in the bin.
• 2:20:02
  Yes. Orient Express is super fun.
• 2:20:05
  Flatline is a nice change in the finale is Fab apart from cyber
• 2:20:09
  brick. Never got.
• 2:20:13
  Why don't cremate? Me was a big deal.
• 2:20:15
  It's not real. Well, there is anything cyber
• 2:20:19
  bridge. Now I'm starting to get to know
• 2:20:22
  you quite well. Have you lost anybody yet?
• 2:20:24
  If you do and I hope you don't then go back WhatsApp.
• 2:20:28
  So afterwards, And you can Doctor Who Says two broad and
• 2:20:33
  two deep so it's Anthony from Doctor Who two broad.
• 2:20:37
  Sorry, yeah. Felt like where I was properly
• 2:20:41
  waning from enjoying the show Clara at the height of her
• 2:20:44
  arrogant. Self-important And adopted not
• 2:20:47
  confronting that as much as you all to the modern era Season 22.
• 2:20:52
  Yeah, I mean I remember writing on a forum which is now defunct
• 2:20:56
  that the season series 8 was the point at which I was no longer
• 2:21:00
  bothered about making sure I saw doctors who on broadcast.
• 2:21:04
  I would catch up with it at some point.
• 2:21:05
  I still wanted to watch it all, but I didn't really care that
• 2:21:08
  much that I wanted to make sure that my Saturday evenings were
• 2:21:11
  free. So those Season 22 parallels are
• 2:21:15
  so vivid though, aren't they? Because like you said, probably
• 2:21:18
  like Season 22. I think this is where the
• 2:21:21
  general audience kind of got off.
• 2:21:22
  This is the thing, is that making the doctor unlikable as
• 2:21:26
  they decided to do with Peter Capaldi.
• 2:21:27
  So they've done that before and it didn't go so well, did they
• 2:21:31
  learn nothing from it? And it get, I get the feeling
• 2:21:33
  it's more a production team going.
• 2:21:34
  Well, we'll do it properly this time around.
• 2:21:37
  And still having basically the same outcome, which is loads of
• 2:21:40
  people switching off and not liking that doctor like, Colin
• 2:21:44
  in trial who is super Charming for most alive, he gets their
• 2:21:49
  Capaldi intend but yeah, just look at those figures lie, the
• 2:21:53
  land what's it? Three million overnight?
• 2:21:54
  Something like that. Things have changed anyways
• 2:21:57
  sorry yeah Darren just Darren whichever Darren it may be.
• 2:22:01
  I love a majority of this series and it gave us one of the best
• 2:22:04
  or in my opinion. The best incarnations of the
• 2:22:07
  master. I love Capaldi throughout.
• 2:22:10
  Mummy is great. I enjoy kill the moon more than
• 2:22:12
  most, it's not perfect, but for one, it's one of the best
• 2:22:16
  series. Lucy before says, I didn't watch
• 2:22:19
  this series and nothing I've heard about it makes me want to
• 2:22:22
  catch it up and our Lucy, you should definitely watch Mommy on
• 2:22:26
  your own expresses. I know you love a bit of gold
• 2:22:28
  and age crime so I think you should.
• 2:22:29
  I think you should watch that. If even if we don't persuade you
• 2:22:32
  on anything else on this call, but I know there's quite well.
• 2:22:35
  Don't watch star war, and deaf and Heaven.
• 2:22:37
  You will get nothing from it. All know, I would second pause,
• 2:22:41
  recommendation, that Lucy should watch mummy on your own Express.
• 2:22:44
  That's one of the best one. And Andrew, Blair, final,
• 2:22:47
  comment, I don't like most of the moon, but I think from the
• 2:22:51
  point where the party does his, ooh, I'm checking the timelines.
• 2:22:53
  Oh, I'm so mysterious acting. It's a brilliant Run for the
• 2:22:56
  next, Nine episodes. The weak point being Forest,
• 2:22:59
  which is still a perfectly good little fairy tale.
• 2:23:01
  Oh, we will get there. Yeah, you know we still have a
• 2:23:07
  strictly virgin with us here. And I think I think we should
• 2:23:12
  give him his as the co-host. We should give him his choice,
• 2:23:16
  Luke. Which would you like The Mummy?
• 2:23:20
  Would you like? Flatline or would you like?
• 2:23:25
  Tiger. Tiger Burning Bright.
• 2:23:27
  Oh, in the forest of the night. No, I'm not taking that.
• 2:23:31
  I just couldn't curse to me that.
• 2:23:35
  We've done two stories and been both of them.
• 2:23:38
  So I want to I want to at least show that I got a bit of love
• 2:23:42
  for some of this stuff. I know it's a slam dunk easy
• 2:23:45
  choice, but I don't care. The story fire is my imagination
• 2:23:48
  and I love it. It is flat line.
• 2:23:50
  I want to contribute you, but didn't we keep killing the Moon.
• 2:23:55
  We did. Yeah, but I didn't bend it.
• 2:23:57
  Oh, you do. Okay.
• 2:23:58
  Sorry, I'm so sorry. so, I just buzzed me up to hear that.
• 2:24:06
  Jamie maths and done with Doctor.
• 2:24:08
  Who? Why?
• 2:24:08
  Because I back up the money truck and asked him to write me
• 2:24:11
  a couple stories every year. Please.
• 2:24:13
  Can we do that show? Runner?
• 2:24:17
  Just to see that season That season that couldn't do before
• 2:24:21
  just one. It would have been great.
• 2:24:22
  Yeah. It's got a creep.
• 2:24:27
  Creepy kind of cold open. There's a I like it this
• 2:24:32
  doctor's excited at the Tardis drinking it's never happened so
• 2:24:35
  we just he's going off. Love the idea of.
• 2:24:39
  All right, so you the effect of the TARDIS as it shrinking And
• 2:24:45
  the doctor sticking his head out.
• 2:24:47
  That's cool. But then they one up, it even
• 2:24:51
  more by having Clara pick up, the tiny Tardis and then the
• 2:24:54
  doctor sticking his hand out of it and stuff.
• 2:24:56
  I don't want to know how they make that at some kind of
• 2:24:59
  sorcery. I don't, I don't, I don't want
• 2:25:02
  to look at the making of the ruin it for me.
• 2:25:04
  Just let me have it as sorcery. It's amazing.
• 2:25:07
  And that's not where that's that's like just one of the
• 2:25:11
  awesome visual kind of ideas that we have here.
• 2:25:15
  We've got 2D monsters and the 3D show.
• 2:25:18
  This is fantastic. We've got oh we're gonna lock
• 2:25:22
  them in this room, how the door handles now too deep and things
• 2:25:27
  like that. Where the body's in the walls?
• 2:25:29
  And now they're painting over them.
• 2:25:30
  Oh my God. How does this cop die?
• 2:25:34
  But essentially being sucked into the carpet, like a reversed
• 2:25:37
  terminated too. Kind of situation, you know?
• 2:25:40
  All this kind of stuff. It like, all right, the
• 2:25:43
  Boneless, I live in like the name that the doctor has at the
• 2:25:46
  end, for the Boneless. Why have they never turned up
• 2:25:48
  again? And if even if I haven't turned
• 2:25:50
  up on telly, I feel like all right audio might be a bit hard,
• 2:25:55
  but you could have two dimensional creatures, kind of
• 2:25:58
  coming at you or something in a comic book or in a actual novel
• 2:26:03
  or something like that. Like, maybe you're reading the
• 2:26:06
  novel and, like, as you're reading it aliens, it's like
• 2:26:09
  trying to invade through the book or something like that.
• 2:26:12
  You can Even have. The Boneless kind of invading
• 2:26:18
  cartoons and they don't know how to make sense of cartoons
• 2:26:21
  because it's like not real. Then you how you can have people
• 2:26:24
  dying by funny, cartoons Shenanigans or being sucked.
• 2:26:27
  Into the cartoon only to die with crazy cartoons Shenanigans.
• 2:26:30
  And this is just Like off the top of my head things that I'm
• 2:26:35
  thinking, like where could you take the Boneless next?
• 2:26:37
  And I can't write for shit. There's a couple ideas.
• 2:26:40
  I think a kind of semi. All right, it's not even me
• 2:26:43
  talking about the story itself, all right?
• 2:26:46
  I'm starting to wonder if you should be the show runner of
• 2:26:48
  that single season now. There is so, Little.
• 2:26:54
  I feel of the doctor and Clara bulshit that I'm just fully on
• 2:26:59
  board with like, with both of them in this story.
• 2:27:02
  I love the doctors excitement that something new is happening.
• 2:27:05
  And It seems to be like a doctor, Light episode, but him
• 2:27:09
  in the Tardis the whole time interacting with people, it's so
• 2:27:13
  well done. I love that.
• 2:27:14
  Clara gets a chance to be the doctor and it's a really, really
• 2:27:18
  cool idea. And I think Jenna Coleman Nails
• 2:27:21
  it, I just chose the title because it makes me sound
• 2:27:23
  important. That's really funny.
• 2:27:25
  And then the doctor going. You really do throw your
• 2:27:27
  companions into the deep end. Don't you?
• 2:27:31
  I loved it. And this is another kind of
• 2:27:34
  tease for me because I love rigsy, I like the actor as well.
• 2:27:39
  I remember seeing him in Doom Patrol and I loved him in that.
• 2:27:44
  So when I went back to rewatch series 8, I was like, oh my God,
• 2:27:47
  it's it's cyborg from DuPont, roll off him.
• 2:27:51
  And I love Rigsby. He's quick.
• 2:27:52
  He's a smart, he's smart and he's kind.
• 2:27:55
  It's obvious that he said kind of mistakes in his past.
• 2:27:58
  He's only young, he's only doing community service.
• 2:28:00
  How bad could it beers only graffiti and stuff like that.
• 2:28:02
  He bounces off Clara really well and asks questions that kind of
• 2:28:08
  the doctors. Like all right, this guy's not.
• 2:28:10
  Not complete, idiot. Connor wishing to join the team.
• 2:28:14
  Rigby is essentially Claris companion and he kind of crushes
• 2:28:17
  that too. Please, please let him join.
• 2:28:19
  Nice things. Do not happen to people of color
• 2:28:22
  in the office. Maybe it's bestie steps.
• 2:28:25
  How? Yeah, Fair.
• 2:28:26
  All right. Well, this very little Danny
• 2:28:30
  pink but And and so it doesn't really detract from me.
• 2:28:37
  It's just like, oh, you in trouble?
• 2:28:39
  Yeah, no, I'm fine. Bye.
• 2:28:42
  It's fine. It's then we kind of move on
• 2:28:44
  with the rest of the story. I liked the part where this I
• 2:28:49
  could paper just doesn't work on this person because they just
• 2:28:51
  there's nothing in there. There's no imagination in there
• 2:28:54
  at all. Which is a funny line in an
• 2:28:57
  episode that I think is brimming with imagination the murals
• 2:29:01
  turning around as well. That's, that's freaking good.
• 2:29:04
  The 2D gun that the doctor hands them is, like, go to this cause,
• 2:29:09
  and the car and the doctor saves the TARDIS By essentially.
• 2:29:14
  Clara says it dozen it The Addams Family.
• 2:29:17
  Oh It's and then you got the, you know, the Doctor Who intense
• 2:29:23
  heroic music coming playing. Well, you got this on the
• 2:29:27
  screen, it's God's glorious. Absolutely love it and it's such
• 2:29:33
  a relief, the rappers of fucking finale, and they say, yeah.
• 2:29:38
  The doctor saying to Rigby at the end, you'll painting.
• 2:29:42
  Save the world. I can't see you do next.
• 2:29:44
  I'm like well. Honey.
• 2:29:47
  Come in. I would say that for me, the
• 2:29:51
  worst part of Flatline is the next time.
• 2:29:55
  Because it shows you what's going to happen in episode
• 2:29:59
  sucks. So this, yeah, this marks my
• 2:30:04
  imagination in, in a way that I wish more doctor whose stories
• 2:30:09
  would do. It's got one of those villains
• 2:30:12
  where when we have our second Wilderness era and the show
• 2:30:15
  comes back for the third time, we'll probably bring back the
• 2:30:18
  Boneless or something. It's one of those ideas.
• 2:30:20
  You just like, like this icons and things like that, why
• 2:30:23
  haven't they come back before? I would love to see them again.
• 2:30:26
  You could do all sorts of things.
• 2:30:27
  Hey, Disney has a lot of Animation Studio, you can't.
• 2:30:30
  Come on. so yeah, let's put the bloody thing through Flatline is
• 2:30:36
  all And there. Oh, we are going to The Listener
• 2:30:40
  comments. Joe James hadwin Bennett now,
• 2:30:44
  not a fan of the Stephen Murphy era, shall we say?
• 2:30:48
  Kindly who'd have no, that we could actually get a truly
• 2:30:53
  original idea, in the office era, the highlight of the
• 2:30:57
  season, the Perfect Blend of humor and horror no wonder.
• 2:31:00
  Oh yeah, let's get dick in. No wonder, it wasn't written by
• 2:31:03
  Mafia Edward. Cook Reese.
• 2:31:07
  Jamie maths and really does strike gold twice straight off.
• 2:31:11
  The police officers. Death is such terrifying image.
• 2:31:16
  Man, it's like a liquid Terminator kind of thing.
• 2:31:17
  It's called Frasier Gregory. He's a champion of stuff.
• 2:31:22
  Clara would becomes the doctor. As we say, the quiet bit out
• 2:31:25
  loud. The shrinking Tardis is a great
• 2:31:28
  idea that leads to some great visuals.
• 2:31:29
  And one of my favorite jokes, in Doctor Who the two discs, the
• 2:31:37
  man who fights the monster speed is the 12th doctor in a
• 2:31:41
  nutshell, a clear keeper. Jack, where is up next?
• 2:31:45
  And I think he might not know I was gonna have to say this,
• 2:31:48
  thank you Jack, starring Jenna Coleman as Doctor Who Finally.
• 2:31:55
  A great repurpose of the doctor like format.
• 2:31:58
  This could well fit into other areas of the show The Monsters
• 2:32:01
  provide unique visual spectacle and I think the effects hold up
• 2:32:05
  well earlier in the series the doctor might not bother to help
• 2:32:08
  but it's an interesting character note to remove him
• 2:32:10
  from proceedings just as he's coming across as an interesting
• 2:32:14
  problem. The Nemesis of Joe Fort himself
• 2:32:17
  Mr. Michael storm. Highlight of the season.
• 2:32:21
  This is fear her done correctly. Okay, the bonus are an
• 2:32:29
  effectively chilling Menace, the support cost of characters and
• 2:32:32
  well-written recognizable, the doctor became the thing in order
• 2:32:35
  to move. The Tardis is great for them.
• 2:32:38
  Keep. Me.
• 2:32:45
  Sorry, I'm just like I'm reading this coming going.
• 2:32:47
  Oh I can't wait for Joe to read that.
• 2:32:48
  No it's mine, it's David. Let's be Pratt here.
• 2:32:50
  Nicely creepy and the doctrine Clara.
• 2:32:53
  Bring a little bit of fun to the season point off for the
• 2:32:56
  horribly wrong train at the end of the episode.
• 2:32:59
  Eric White being much more sink than I usually am.
• 2:33:02
  Flat nine is top-notch for me. Yeah.
• 2:33:05
  Look I don't know how we're gonna top last time on it so I
• 2:33:08
  don't think we can't do another, big orange.
• 2:33:11
  Michael. Can we?
• 2:33:12
  Yeah. So Opera maybe Opera.
• 2:33:14
  Yeah. Okay, everyone got their voices,
• 2:33:17
  their everyone warmed up nicely. Yeah, not.
• 2:33:19
  Okay, we buy a flock this to death, you know?
• 2:33:31
  Oh, I got another two to go. Yeah, he soon.
• 2:33:36
  All righty, Moffat continues to find interesting ways to
• 2:33:42
  disguise, the doctor companion, like episodes the creativity on
• 2:33:46
  that front may be almost as interesting as the episode
• 2:33:49
  itself. Can someone give me the name?
• 2:33:51
  Princess, thank you so much for the for that.
• 2:33:56
  Paul Crescent says, by this point, I was so fed up of this.
• 2:33:59
  Program, which should be called Clara, who that a doctor talked
• 2:34:03
  to literally episode was the last thing Dr. Light episode was
• 2:34:08
  literally last thing I needed a shame because there's quite a
• 2:34:10
  good idea in their Paul know he's entitled to his opinion
• 2:34:16
  now. Come on.
• 2:34:16
  Yes, he is. He's no Matty, Matty.
• 2:34:20
  Matty Flatline is a fantastic character beat.
• 2:34:22
  It's slightly aimless aimless from the back.
• 2:34:25
  Half on would I have heard that critique before actually?
• 2:34:29
  Trade Doctor Who two 10 out of 10 episodes back to back blimey.
• 2:34:34
  The bonus are ugly, modern who's creepiest, one-time monster and
• 2:34:38
  they work very well as one. I can't find the words to
• 2:34:42
  describe this episode other than absolutely great.
• 2:34:45
  And then Daniel ransley says series, 8 at its most
• 2:34:48
  experimental mixing familiar ideas, with the genuinely new.
• 2:34:53
  It's refreshing and energizing. Even if the cast could be a bit
• 2:34:56
  more freedom, three-dimensional, get it.
• 2:34:59
  You seems fascinated with seeing how the companion might feel,
• 2:35:03
  the Doctor's shoes works. Well here.
• 2:35:05
  Let's so later on. I saw Jamie, Mathison a Doctor
• 2:35:10
  Who convention where he said that there were layers and
• 2:35:14
  layers to the characters in this story and when it overran it was
• 2:35:18
  all the character stuff that left.
• 2:35:20
  So that is a fair critique. I think it was there but 45
• 2:35:24
  minutes walking can you do that would be lovely.
• 2:35:29
  Flatline is another Innovative story with some memorably weird
• 2:35:33
  horror moments Clara. Is really good in this and
• 2:35:35
  works. Well with Ricky people keep
• 2:35:37
  trying to make me say these things not keen on the
• 2:35:39
  pretentious beach at the end, but who doesn't love Capaldi's
• 2:35:42
  little dance in the TARDIS? And the last word goes to Kieran
• 2:35:49
  Moore here, with Flatline, Jamie Matheson showed he really gets
• 2:35:53
  what makes stuff to who work and what a mess moffatt's.
• 2:35:56
  Best decisions was to keep inviting him back after that.
• 2:36:00
  So Joe was this one of moffat's. Best decisions.
• 2:36:03
  Yes. I think this is a fabulous
• 2:36:06
  episode and I'm really not going to label the poem because there
• 2:36:09
  are smarter people than me that I've got to talk about this.
• 2:36:11
  What I will say is I was out right tail end of Series 7.
• 2:36:16
  I pretty much loved from beginning of beginning to end
• 2:36:19
  our fourth day of the doctor was a fair fluid.
• 2:36:22
  Time of the Doctor was miserable awful.
• 2:36:24
  Deep breath was too slow the first half of series a whilst
• 2:36:29
  looking good. File to capture my interest.
• 2:36:32
  I love the caretaker with a passion.
• 2:36:35
  I was like I just not sure if Doctor Who's for me anymore.
• 2:36:38
  Mummy was mummy before this it was yes yeah.
• 2:36:42
  Mummy here. I wasn't sure about kill the
• 2:36:45
  moon when I first watched it mommy here and I was like that
• 2:36:46
  was quite stylish. But Flatline here and I sat up
• 2:36:51
  and paid attention for the first time in about a year and a half.
• 2:36:54
  And it was just that the visual ambition to it, the
• 2:36:58
  inventiveness of it that the wit in it as well, that absurd scene
• 2:37:04
  where finally, Clara and Danny work in the middle of this
• 2:37:07
  fraught moment, as this thing's going across the carpet.
• 2:37:11
  And she's in the most bizarre you've ever seen your life which
• 2:37:14
  is swinging about in someone's living room and she's on the
• 2:37:17
  phone to daddy going. Yeah I'll call you back as she's
• 2:37:21
  in this and it's just it works like gangbusters Clara.
• 2:37:25
  Absolutely brilliant in this episode.
• 2:37:26
  If this was Clara I would be in love with this character.
• 2:37:30
  Jenna Coleman's just seizes the opportunity to take the show and
• 2:37:33
  runs with it. Yeah, I this was the episode
• 2:37:37
  that brought me back to Doctor Who after the falling out of it
• 2:37:41
  for some time and showed me there was still things that was
• 2:37:45
  still so much potential there. Yes please.
• 2:37:48
  I'm going to be very quick. Keep it.
• 2:37:49
  I think it is brilliant. Practically Flawless, lovely.
• 2:37:54
  Paul. How do you find it?
• 2:37:57
  Jenna, Coleman can't throw Okay, in that last the climactic shot
• 2:38:04
  with a tile, is kind of back and it's an amazing moment in a
• 2:38:07
  cappella gets his first proper, big doctor speech.
• 2:38:10
  Which stands in contrast to something.
• 2:38:11
  He's done the previous week and common comes out and he turns
• 2:38:14
  around to get the Sonic, which is kind of little underarm
• 2:38:17
  throw. Kind of ruins it for me.
• 2:38:22
  It's really just that. Yes.
• 2:38:24
  But then then At the end as well.
• 2:38:27
  I don't understand the need to have You're an exceptional
• 2:38:33
  doctor. Goodness is nothing to do with
• 2:38:36
  it. And this kind of pouring this
• 2:38:38
  bucket of sick. Overhead, Joy, having taken on
• 2:38:42
  the role the role he pushing her to and now suddenly answer the
• 2:38:47
  phone answer, the boy friend phone, the interesting thing in
• 2:38:50
  that last scene is who's watching this and it's missing.
• 2:38:54
  We cut that scene of her, what she in.
• 2:38:58
  Clara on the tablet and going Clara.
• 2:39:01
  I was right to choose you, and in the next episode, she's also
• 2:39:05
  watching the Telly. So it really interesting is
• 2:39:08
  interesting idea that, in fact, The viewer is missing and Missy
• 2:39:12
  is the viewer and it does something really interesting of
• 2:39:15
  who's watching. Who's narrative, it is To pour
• 2:39:19
  it a cold water on the infuser for Jamie Mathis and I don't
• 2:39:22
  know his story is true. So I was a convention which is
• 2:39:24
  very unusual for me and I was talking to someone with inside
• 2:39:29
  knowledge. Who'd been part of the
• 2:39:30
  production team and a long time ago, I won't name but you all
• 2:39:34
  know and he said to me that Suva.
• 2:39:39
  She had got really, really annoyed.
• 2:39:42
  All the praise being heaped on Jamie Mathewson, because it all
• 2:39:48
  the work and that Moffat, in to this scripts.
• 2:39:52
  So there's a horrible, horrible, parallel universe.
• 2:39:55
  We're actually There's more Market in this and it's Moffat
• 2:40:00
  story. And so you're all heaping,
• 2:40:01
  Praise on on the Revival figure, but to pick up your point.
• 2:40:04
  Joe, is it more? If it comes along with the blue
• 2:40:05
  pen and goes, we've got to take all this character out, all this
• 2:40:08
  character out, all this character up.
• 2:40:10
  And what you're left with is pure Peril in, in an attempt to
• 2:40:13
  an urban Thriller, which they can't do.
• 2:40:15
  They'll reach a new low in the Zion thing, The Following
• 2:40:20
  Season, where they chasing as I hunting, as I go around the
• 2:40:24
  shopping center and it's kind of really rubbish looking and like
• 2:40:28
  Paul 1980s, detective drama. And I'm going to be contrarian
• 2:40:33
  say Bennett. I mean I really like it.
• 2:40:34
  But binit. Oh, we have Jason is the science
• 2:40:41
  in this bad enough for you to add The science and this is
• 2:40:46
  irrelevant. This is fiction, this is
• 2:40:48
  fantasy. This is not telling me that
• 2:40:50
  something that is very much fundamental.
• 2:40:53
  Basic science is wrong. This is a This is an, this is a
• 2:40:57
  rare thing in Doctor Who when it's nearly 60 years old, at
• 2:41:00
  this point, it was, you know, it's just over 50 years old at
• 2:41:02
  this point, it's actually an original idea.
• 2:41:07
  I love Flatline. I think it's an absolute high
• 2:41:09
  point of not only serious 8B, but the Moffitt era in general
• 2:41:12
  and even Doctor Who in general. Yeah.
• 2:41:16
  I Its. I say, as I said with my
• 2:41:21
  sticking to my thing, I'm going to find three things to pick
• 2:41:23
  holes in. It one is the Clara and Danny
• 2:41:26
  lying subplot. and, When I watched it, when I rewatched it,
• 2:41:32
  this time, when I watched it at the time, I thought they know
• 2:41:35
  what they're doing. Having the boyfriend phone, the
• 2:41:38
  girlfriend who is panting and exclaiming And saying no no,
• 2:41:43
  everything's fine darling. Well going well huffing and
• 2:41:46
  puffing and so yeah. That sounds a bit active but
• 2:41:48
  they know what they're doing there, don't they?
• 2:41:50
  They're, they're playing on some.
• 2:41:53
  Rather more adult tropes. I mean, that's the season, you
• 2:41:58
  know, which I think was a bit kind of Crass and I don't like
• 2:42:02
  the whole lying to go. Because why did she fucking
• 2:42:05
  answer the phone in that particular context?
• 2:42:07
  That's the that's the most ridiculous thing about it.
• 2:42:09
  And, you know, it's just the doctor going away.
• 2:42:12
  It's funny and get that stupid chair out the window.
• 2:42:19
  It's no, I don't think it's funny.
• 2:42:22
  I think it's ridiculous because you would not answer the phone
• 2:42:25
  in that situation, you'd pick up, you pick it up and talk to
• 2:42:28
  them later because you You have a phone in any situations, you
• 2:42:33
  know, it's that's so I thought that was absurd.
• 2:42:35
  I didn't care and I don't like the whole, the Clara lying to
• 2:42:38
  both Danny and the doctor about traveling on the Tardis and
• 2:42:41
  Danny's fine with it. And I'm not traveling with the
• 2:42:42
  doctor and I don't I hate that whole Subplot.
• 2:42:49
  I mean. if I was being picky, I would say, I don't really care,
• 2:42:55
  you know, the end of it is just it's resolved with the wave of
• 2:42:58
  the Sonic Screwdriver but in this instance, I'll forgive it
• 2:43:02
  because You know, this isn't a case, this isn't like you know
• 2:43:05
  when they had to hurriedly put together the ending of the power
• 2:43:09
  of three because they had an actor who was being an ass and
• 2:43:11
  they couldn't film the proper thing.
• 2:43:12
  So the doctor just Zapped the problem away.
• 2:43:14
  Oh, you know the whole the whole thing of this is not, how is the
• 2:43:19
  doctor going to do it? The whole thing is the plotting.
• 2:43:21
  It separating Clara from the doctor, it's having them figure
• 2:43:25
  out the situation. It's the Peril, it's everything
• 2:43:27
  else and at the end of it it can only end one way.
• 2:43:29
  The doctor has to send them back to their own Dimension.
• 2:43:31
  And since we don't know how they got here in the first place it's
• 2:43:34
  not like he can say I've rigged their space ship to blow up.
• 2:43:36
  He's got to find some other way of doing it so he's playing with
• 2:43:39
  the Tardis and the Sonic he's done something that was at them
• 2:43:41
  back fine. I'll give that a pass but you
• 2:43:44
  know it's another wave the Sonic and everything's done.
• 2:43:48
  But this is fantastic. I love the central idea.
• 2:43:50
  I love the doctor being excited. The 8th doctor has been such a
• 2:43:55
  miserable fuker. The you know they 12 12 the 12th
• 2:43:59
  doctor. Sorry the 12th doctor so it's
• 2:44:01
  like 12 dots, this doctor has been.
• 2:44:04
  So oh it's just and to actually see him excited by something is
• 2:44:09
  just you know it's great. And I love the visual of him
• 2:44:12
  climbing out of a slightly shrunk and artists.
• 2:44:14
  And then, as you said playing the dramatic music while
• 2:44:16
  basically two fingers stick out the car, just I absolutely
• 2:44:25
  absolutely love it and I I love the fact that they resolve the
• 2:44:30
  resolution is the classic turning the monster's power
• 2:44:33
  against them I've seen people create complain, you know, that
• 2:44:38
  don't they realize it's just a piece of paper, of course they
• 2:44:40
  don't. They're too dimensional beings.
• 2:44:42
  They don't know, a painting from a real objects, they've got no
• 2:44:45
  idea. They see a two-dimensional thing
• 2:44:48
  and they think oh, we can put this back into three dimensions
• 2:44:50
  know you can't. And to re-energize the Tardis
• 2:44:53
  that way and yeah, I absolutely love that final and the hardest
• 2:44:57
  spinning into the into the tunnel, blasting out the force
• 2:45:01
  field and the doctors speech. At the end I loved it at the
• 2:45:06
  time. I know some people is
• 2:45:07
  pretentious and everything else, but it might be a contrarian
• 2:45:10
  because what irritates me about that and it's one floor.
• 2:45:14
  I think with this is people don't think the doctor has a
• 2:45:17
  doctor moment, until he steps up and has a pretentious fucking
• 2:45:21
  speech. Where is like, when did we ever
• 2:45:24
  get here? Oh, that's right.
• 2:45:25
  Via David Tennant, that's how we got here and actually Jodie
• 2:45:30
  Whittaker's doctor moment in at the end of it, takes you away
• 2:45:34
  where she blows the kiss to the Frog at the end of that.
• 2:45:36
  I just think that's a far more inspired.
• 2:45:39
  Way of capturing, what the doctor is about then this.
• 2:45:42
  Anyway. Sorry.
• 2:45:43
  Oh, I see, I love the speed. I didn't see this is this is
• 2:45:46
  Capaldi's first doctor moment. I think he had those in deep
• 2:45:49
  breath. When he's deducing things like
• 2:45:51
  for me with first doctor moment is when he standing the
• 2:45:55
  important question is have there, been on the other deaths
• 2:45:58
  like this, he's approaching the problem from a different angle,
• 2:46:00
  from all the humans. And the people, I thought it was
• 2:46:03
  when he Nick the coat off that tramp and kicked, but the, but I
• 2:46:07
  love that speech and I have to say now that speech part of the
• 2:46:11
  reason I love that speech so much now as well is because I
• 2:46:13
  went to the proms in August and they played a good man, the 12th
• 2:46:17
  doctor's theme which included that speech and I was just, but
• 2:46:22
  another personal side for this C Series 8 didn't gel with me but
• 2:46:27
  that piece of music a good man. I was things were not going well
• 2:46:33
  at work for a while. I was not Terribly Happy at
• 2:46:36
  work, I was approaching burnout. I did actually end up taking a
• 2:46:39
  couple of weeks off. Work from burnout.
• 2:46:42
  Going in in the morning I would go to YouTube and I would put a
• 2:46:46
  good man on my phone. It was my I'm gonna go and get
• 2:46:49
  shit done music and I was listening to it on my way to
• 2:46:52
  work, I was almost Marching In Time with the beat to it.
• 2:46:55
  This is my this is gonna get me through the day so that was the
• 2:47:00
  man who face the monsters. Yeah, so that piece of music and
• 2:47:03
  that's B. I just it's it's, it's Deeply
• 2:47:08
  personal for me. So, yeah, I absolutely love this
• 2:47:12
  episode. I want to keep this episode and
• 2:47:14
  been anyone who says to bin it. I, I can't do that because it's
• 2:47:25
  a good if I'm quibbling. Jamie Matteson basically uses
• 2:47:29
  the same cold open format both tagged.
• 2:47:32
  He just kills off an extra demonstrate that you and it's
• 2:47:35
  not what it's back to back. So I think it might have
• 2:47:38
  benefited to maybe shift this to just before dark water death in
• 2:47:42
  heaven. See, don't quite get that over
• 2:47:44
  Whiplash from in the past and not to the finale. apart from
• 2:47:50
  that, though, I Keep it brief because I think everyone's
• 2:47:54
  mentioned most things I've got here.
• 2:47:57
  I love Clara. The best option for me is when
• 2:48:01
  she saves rig rigsy when he's trying to play the hero.
• 2:48:04
  Because what the doctor does to her.
• 2:48:07
  Yeah, he's up. I love that hair band.
• 2:48:08
  Yeah, he said, go, I want to be no, and it's, he takes her hand.
• 2:48:14
  Like yeah. Doctor in a companion, live
• 2:48:16
  running away. Yeah, it's gorgeous.
• 2:48:18
  It's so quietly done. I don't like that bit in deaf in
• 2:48:23
  heaven. Like, hideous, bit where she
• 2:48:24
  says. Oh, I am the doctor and her face
• 2:48:26
  and the people's. This just shows how she could be
• 2:48:30
  the doctor by just making a fucking computer and Brilliant,
• 2:48:34
  you know, rather than showboat in And the only thing I want to
• 2:48:39
  mention that he's only mentioned in passing.
• 2:48:42
  Fenton. Who is one of my absolute
• 2:48:44
  favorite supporting characters. What are bastard?
• 2:48:48
  I thought bastard. He's a cont.
• 2:48:50
  He's a proper total. He is the guy who basically
• 2:48:55
  reacts by going. I want to run away.
• 2:48:57
  Get away from them. Know you first, you can
• 2:48:59
  sacrifice yourself for me, get out of here.
• 2:49:01
  This is just not enough of them John in TV.
• 2:49:03
  Is there not at all? And I love that, he survives.
• 2:49:07
  And the doctor says, the wrong people survive sometimes.
• 2:49:10
  Yeah, yeah, it happens. Thank you.
• 2:49:12
  Nobody alive, though. He doesn't, he thinks, the
• 2:49:19
  people who was under his charge that all died, deserved it
• 2:49:23
  because, yeah, like I'm thinking like they just do graffiti and
• 2:49:26
  whatever crimes they did to get community service.
• 2:49:29
  It's not as if like he's a serial killer in the other guys.
• 2:49:32
  Like some other kind of I want to see.
• 2:49:37
  I want to see the follow-up scene where he goes to his boss
• 2:49:40
  and says yeah, every body except One bloke that I was
• 2:49:42
  supervising. He's dead now but that's all
• 2:49:46
  right. Yeah.
• 2:49:47
  Let's criminals on the street. The Daily Mail would love that a
• 2:49:52
  load of graffiti artist died. It's fine crack he's a hero for
• 2:49:56
  the right. He's not in that whole time.
• 2:49:59
  Just he's probably the next prime minister.
• 2:50:02
  That's a lot. The last thing I really want to
• 2:50:05
  say is that Jamie Matheson sneaks, one of the most
• 2:50:09
  horrifying things around and that is that line about, you
• 2:50:13
  know, they're wearing the dead as camouflage.
• 2:50:15
  That's a bloody horrific thing. Yeah, and he just sneaks it in
• 2:50:20
  just some really cool imagery. it's one of the most horrific
• 2:50:24
  things in the whole season, you know, Behind The Cremation but
• 2:50:28
  but it's just perfectly played that fantasy moment.
• 2:50:30
  It is gorgeous. So, yeah, it's inventive.
• 2:50:36
  It's funny, you know. I think you might be able to
• 2:50:38
  track track and back to is it flatland I think by Edwin Albert
• 2:50:41
  but equally Doctor, Who always always is always a kind of
• 2:50:45
  vampire for ideas and it uses it beautifully.
• 2:50:49
  So, for this, and for the way, the music makes Jason Pierre, I
• 2:50:53
  can't say anything, but it's going, I think, but I think not,
• 2:50:58
  Mathison might be like, you know, when Moffat did so good
• 2:51:05
  grief, empty, child, doctor dance, and when, wow, that's a
• 2:51:09
  right to watch the exactly what happened here, wasn't it?
• 2:51:13
  Oh, you know, that back to back then, but Joe hello.
• 2:51:19
  So do you want to start the clock or do you want to burn a
• 2:51:22
  forest? I would love to further Forest
• 2:51:26
  if I am I you may and now be careful when you send a text
• 2:51:30
  message that's the lesson to be learned with in the forest of
• 2:51:34
  the night because I watched the pre-title sequence to this on my
• 2:51:38
  own and message my ex-husband at the end and you'd have this
• 2:51:41
  wonderful moment where that kid goes into the Tardis from the
• 2:51:45
  kids point of view, it looks cavernous, it's all shot from
• 2:51:48
  below called, he's sweet and Charming with the kids.
• 2:51:51
  He's so, I mean, the kids are terrible, but he's great with
• 2:51:54
  them. God bless that, man, and that
• 2:51:59
  amazing, sure, going up, Nelson's column to the forest,
• 2:52:03
  and it's all across London on our message, Mark, from when
• 2:52:06
  this is gonna be a banger after that after the free tolls,
• 2:52:14
  fucking hell. I mean, I do think this is,
• 2:52:18
  well, short in place is I do. But they're on such a loser
• 2:52:22
  visually. We're trying to convince that
• 2:52:25
  little Cops. They shot this in with
• 2:52:27
  superimposing. These Dreadful London landmarks
• 2:52:30
  is You know, London turned into a forest, it just doesn't
• 2:52:34
  convince on any level beyond that opening panel, Nelson's,
• 2:52:38
  column, those two little bollards in the middle of the
• 2:52:41
  forest. Didn't convince you.
• 2:52:42
  You were in London, main road. I mean, where are all the
• 2:52:45
  people? Yeah.
• 2:52:46
  Where is everyone where all the millions of people that live in
• 2:52:49
  London? Are they all hiding in?
• 2:52:50
  Oh, that Annabelle? You know, the bushes, I think
• 2:52:54
  home or something because in that music sequence, Has there
• 2:52:59
  ever. And I'm including Angie in this?
• 2:53:02
  Has there ever been more annoying brood of children in
• 2:53:07
  Doctor Who and the kitty Winks in this?
• 2:53:10
  That little girl? My oh dramatically exclaims.
• 2:53:15
  We're all good at the oh, God just oh if that tiger and eating
• 2:53:22
  up a couple of them are giving us a pass.
• 2:53:24
  But unfortunately they all survived included Annabelle, but
• 2:53:27
  we'll get there in this story. Is there.
• 2:53:32
  If they just sort of hung around and didn't do anything at all,
• 2:53:37
  wouldn't this just play out as it plays out?
• 2:53:41
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:53:41
  Very old approached to a doctor who story offing. add it and it
• 2:53:48
  sort of tries to make that ending very Disney, very fairy
• 2:53:52
  tale, very profound, It's not, it's really not.
• 2:53:56
  Don't take your meds. Kids says, Doctor Who,
• 2:53:59
  apparently, I'm told by Fraser cable Gregory know.
• 2:54:02
  This is not, that's not the message in that scene.
• 2:54:04
  It's that you should listen to kids, but I hear, no, don't give
• 2:54:09
  a medicine and then he starts insulting her bike.
• 2:54:12
  I will wash you waving her hands around like a lunatic.
• 2:54:14
  What's going on? I mean, it's very problematic
• 2:54:16
  how their view in the children in this.
• 2:54:18
  There's comedy Murray Gold music throughout this and I fucking
• 2:54:22
  hate it. I mean, you know, he really will
• 2:54:25
  overstress how you're supposed to feel, but it's specially
• 2:54:27
  during comedy and it's particularly Lonesome here.
• 2:54:30
  Danny ping, they're in his oh, there are wonders here or else
• 2:54:35
  Walt. Well, Clara just fucking leave
• 2:54:37
  then. And let's get Billy a year early
• 2:54:39
  because I don't do it and she's pondering, she's pondering
• 2:54:45
  staying with this boring asshole rather than taking all of time
• 2:54:49
  and space. It's baffling.
• 2:54:53
  But the reason we're got up in this, is that part in closing
• 2:54:57
  shot where demonic Annabelle emerges from the bush in a wave
• 2:55:03
  of fairy lights. And little girl may have goes,
• 2:55:07
  oh my God, Annabelle, the thought of you came to me, I
• 2:55:12
  fuck me. She looks like she looked on the
• 2:55:14
  poster child of a horror movie. She Looks So Scary.
• 2:55:17
  That's our triumphant moment. It's just very I'm not entirely
• 2:55:22
  sure what this episode is doing. Maybe it's working on levels
• 2:55:24
  that I don't understand. I think it's trying to be I
• 2:55:29
  applaud it for being like different.
• 2:55:31
  I think there is some ambition to tell a different type of
• 2:55:34
  doctor who's story here. I don't think they get it to
• 2:55:38
  where it needs to be, because in a doctor who story when you
• 2:55:42
  could just sit down and the episode could play out around
• 2:55:46
  you. I don't think we're we're adding
• 2:55:49
  any suspense any drama? Humor.
• 2:55:51
  Any of the things that might stop, who work?
• 2:55:53
  Usually, I'm just just too many kids.
• 2:55:55
  After I want a babysit kids, when I'm watching Doctor, Who,
• 2:55:58
  all right, there was a wonderful moment in the boom commentary
• 2:56:01
  where Rusty Davis. And Stephen moffatt in there and
• 2:56:04
  Rusty a day goes, why did you include so many kids in your
• 2:56:07
  doctor who you get this bit of a theme in yours?
• 2:56:09
  You're far more interested in being a parent than, right?
• 2:56:12
  And Doctor Who aren't you? I'm office going.
• 2:56:14
  Well, I'm not sure if you don't mean you add far more kids in an
• 2:56:18
  hour I ever would, and Steven Moffat looks apologetic and so
• 2:56:22
  he should their heads. I wish they would all die
• 2:56:26
  Herbert. Now, you guys will say a much
• 2:56:28
  nicer ways. Why?
• 2:56:30
  This is a total failure or Paul? Why?
• 2:56:32
  This is a complete success. But please, can we pin in the
• 2:56:37
  forest of the night? It was into that argument.
• 2:56:40
  I always have about Stephen Murphy Seasons, he just cannot
• 2:56:43
  structure a season. He can't do a season, the way.
• 2:56:47
  Rossi. Davis does a season, right?
• 2:56:49
  In three, you Have human nature, family are Bloods.
• 2:56:53
  What's after that bling? Bling Utopia sound of drums.
• 2:56:57
  It is constantly building, momentum.
• 2:57:00
  In four, you have unicorn on the WASP silence in the library.
• 2:57:04
  Forest of the Dead midnight. Turn left, stolen Earth,
• 2:57:08
  building building, building, building, building, building
• 2:57:09
  building huge climax. What do you have here?
• 2:57:12
  You've had two amazing episodes. Mummy on the Orient Express and
• 2:57:15
  Flatline back to background my God we're on throw a winner back
• 2:57:18
  off a series 8 it's going to be really good.
• 2:57:20
  Boom! We're dead.
• 2:57:21
  Dead in the water. He did the same thing in 10.00
• 2:57:26
  in the middle of the Season, kills any momentum.
• 2:57:32
  Yeah, it's it's not great. Thank you.
• 2:57:36
  All right, let's move on to the comments to see if there any
• 2:57:39
  more enthusiastic. Thank you.
• 2:57:40
  I don't think they will be. I don't get to say, James had
• 2:57:45
  been Bennett. Would you believe just like this
• 2:57:47
  episode? It would have been substandard
• 2:57:49
  if they've made it an alien planet.
• 2:57:50
  But by making it a birthday, make it into an idea that takes
• 2:57:53
  embarrassingly awful to even further.
• 2:57:55
  Depths one of the worst stories ever with a ridiculous memory
• 2:57:59
  white resolution, let's never mention it again.
• 2:58:03
  David Gillespie Pratt. Embarrassingly awful, the trees
• 2:58:09
  appearing over notice. Good idea that then we're
• 2:58:12
  lumbered, you know, with a whole group of brats and it's downhill
• 2:58:18
  all the way. Let the solar flares burn this
• 2:58:21
  one. Oh, wow.
• 2:58:26
  I, you know, I'm gonna do a subdued.
• 2:58:29
  Maybe folksy, big acoustic, Michael Oher.
• 2:58:33
  I love it, love it. There we go.
• 2:58:36
  Yes, yes, don't be silly, yes, sorry.
• 2:58:40
  I recall not what I recall. Not loving this one, a bit.
• 2:58:45
  So the ending is pivotal there. I'm sorry.
• 2:58:49
  Big Orange, Mark. I thought your email.
• 2:58:51
  I recall. Not loving this one.
• 2:58:53
  A bit. The ending is pivotal to.
• 2:58:56
  What comes next. Feels like one.
• 2:58:58
  I need to re-watch. Pivotal seems like a word.
• 2:59:01
  I need to relearn how to say as well.
• 2:59:04
  Oh another quick point. Sorry, I mean on everyone else
• 2:59:07
  is acting in extra points later on.
• 2:59:09
  So I really hate how Clara go. It's all problem go and leave
• 2:59:15
  after she made such a fucking Faster by him leaving early in
• 2:59:18
  the season, it's just baffling. Anyway, Michael storm, the
• 2:59:21
  seeming hotter, focusing horror of the fairies is a good change
• 2:59:24
  of pace and The Lost Child returning home for Shadows the
• 2:59:28
  season finale Annabelle. However, the ending is a bit
• 2:59:31
  fudged a bit, and rather than saying people need to be
• 2:59:35
  encouraged to talk more about their mental health.
• 2:59:37
  It comes across as meds equals bad keep, but we've
• 2:59:41
  reservations. Andrew tumble with a lovely
• 2:59:45
  little cutlet of a comment. Almost Japanese, not quite a
• 2:59:50
  hike with the hike. Soils, Forest could vanish.
• 2:59:53
  Would anyone notice? No bye man. 702 and I like the
• 3:00:00
  name of Spider-Man. Here we go.
• 3:00:01
  Absolutely hated it. Oh, Matty is the singers ever.
• 3:00:05
  It was fine with a couple of stupid choices.
• 3:00:09
  Daniel Rallye. I tried seeing this one from a
• 3:00:12
  more Theory, tell read, right? Because angle and a fully on
• 3:00:15
  board with the environmental message.
• 3:00:18
  But the lack of incident and all then kids ruin it for me.
• 3:00:22
  Putting the Peppa Pig girl in their distract us how and for
• 3:00:27
  the mute button. That's my pole.
• 3:00:30
  That's my. Yeah.
• 3:00:31
  Yeah. Hideous.
• 3:00:33
  And Daniel Knight and unbelievably stupid story.
• 3:00:37
  It has a stupid and irresponsible attitude to mental
• 3:00:41
  health. The Threat is non-existent, I
• 3:00:45
  don't know. No one can hear the air quotes,
• 3:00:47
  I just did that for you guys. Great.
• 3:00:51
  Yeah, it's nonexistent. I know, Jason Thompson but the
• 3:00:56
  science is stupid as well. It's no checks, bartik clenching
• 3:01:01
  me stupid. It's painful.
• 3:01:02
  Please please please, please bin it.
• 3:01:06
  I wonder if we're gonna sort of questions Sarah's assertion in
• 3:01:10
  this next comment, it's hard to find people who enjoy Forest,
• 3:01:14
  but it's kind of a comfort episode.
• 3:01:16
  Wow, we find someone on this call, Kieran more force is
• 3:01:21
  Ludacris all the way through. Okay, can only be explained as
• 3:01:25
  an acid trip? The doctor has oh yes.
• 3:01:27
  Andrew Blair says a perfectly good.
• 3:01:30
  Sorry. Getting into like a perfectly
• 3:01:33
  good little fairy tale. How he says God, this is the
• 3:01:37
  worst episode ever. Worst of God, listen.
• 3:01:41
  Now, bad is everybody worse even than fear her?
• 3:01:45
  Oh, my word. Never heard of that guy.
• 3:01:49
  So I'm not quite sure what, you know, Fraser Gregory he's gonna
• 3:01:53
  raise Gregory the champion. Yeah, let's see how he can make
• 3:01:59
  this work. Although let's face, it's
• 3:02:01
  nothing. His top 60 so he has no excuses.
• 3:02:04
  There we go. That's right.
• 3:02:06
  Okay. Fraser Gregory possibly one of
• 3:02:09
  the most unappreciated Doctor, Who stories of all time.
• 3:02:12
  Here it is. I would share here.
• 3:02:16
  We have we haven't hit the best pitch.
• 3:02:17
  Yeah. A real showcase.
• 3:02:19
  As to why Danny pink is the best character this series.
• 3:02:22
  As he does everything, you'd expect the doctor to do, but
• 3:02:26
  without being a dick, one of the few times, we have lights turned
• 3:02:31
  up this series and where the better for it.
• 3:02:33
  A grim type Theory story to break up.
• 3:02:36
  All the horror stories, we're getting this series.
• 3:02:38
  Again, don't let the endings for the journey for you to pull
• 3:02:43
  these shows how good he can work with kids.
• 3:02:44
  Danny pink is amazing. And oh yeah, it has Peppa Pig in
• 3:02:48
  it. That's not a good thing.
• 3:02:52
  Fraser, it's not rational know. That's true.
• 3:02:56
  I am with Fraser Gregory all the way on the dominators.
• 3:02:59
  That's probably because it was like my first black and white
• 3:03:02
  story, I own a VHS but Not not this time.
• 3:03:05
  Anyway, it would cook Reese says.
• 3:03:09
  Beautiful? What a hyphenated names.
• 3:03:11
  Make me feel good. My dad calls us the hyphens.
• 3:03:14
  Anyway. Beautiful imagery.
• 3:03:16
  And some great Direction really can't help this script.
• 3:03:19
  Really mixed messaging here with Dave doesn't sit well with me.
• 3:03:23
  Also crap, ending with the sister Terrible.
• 3:03:26
  And I and finally, Paul Kresser. Who could be?
• 3:03:30
  Jason Thompson at this point. By this point, I was just
• 3:03:34
  looking at the screen when Doctor Who was on with a
• 3:03:36
  general, what the fuck expression on my face?
• 3:03:39
  Okay, so Paul, why is Joe wrong with reference to the works of
• 3:03:45
  William Blake. Okay, so I haven't seen this
• 3:03:49
  since broadcast, I don't think so.
• 3:03:51
  I watched the other night and I did it back to back with dark
• 3:03:54
  water and I really enjoyed it. I think it's lovely, actually.
• 3:04:03
  I think you have children now, let's not forget, oh, I think
• 3:04:07
  thats an important point. And so the Peppa Pig bit, that's
• 3:04:12
  important as well. I think I would take issue with
• 3:04:14
  Fraser in the idea. It's a grim type fairy Stories.
• 3:04:17
  The Grimms Fairy stories are horrible.
• 3:04:20
  It's too late. Isn't it for that?
• 3:04:22
  Yeah. I mean Grimms do haunt this or
• 3:04:25
  adaptations of the Grimms which take out some of the the horror
• 3:04:28
  but my day job as a lecturing includes teaching very tails.
• 3:04:34
  So, I was really taken with the fairytale elements in this.
• 3:04:38
  Now, Yes, there's something questionable about the
• 3:04:42
  medication statement and I think that's becoming increasingly
• 3:04:46
  problematic over the 10 years since this was broadcast.
• 3:04:49
  And I think it's going to head into more problematic territory
• 3:04:52
  because we're going to get a whole sale push against
• 3:04:56
  medication for depression and mental health, the Moncrief
• 3:05:00
  paper that was published a couple of years ago, which I see
• 3:05:03
  is kicking around in the times that the weekend or last weekend
• 3:05:05
  is being picked up by all the wrong people.
• 3:05:08
  And I will be horrible to see what Robert Kennedy June.
• 3:05:12
  Robert Kennedy Jr, is going to do to Health in America and it's
• 3:05:16
  the wider West and World in terms of medication, but I don't
• 3:05:19
  think that was the intention here because it is about
• 3:05:23
  listening to children and it is about children's creativity.
• 3:05:27
  You have to set aside the bad acting, all right?
• 3:05:30
  I'm not gonna yeah there is one really nice moment where Danny
• 3:05:37
  keeps calling them team and the boy in the base cup.
• 3:05:40
  Does the hands goes? We will if you stop calling us
• 3:05:43
  team and it's a really moment and it's really well done. like,
• 3:05:50
  They're older than my daughter's class but I could see some of my
• 3:05:53
  daughters class saying that having another workshop with
• 3:05:55
  them a couple of years ago. I could see exactly that type of
• 3:05:58
  thing and that kind of push back against the cool teacher and
• 3:06:01
  there's something interesting going on here with Danny and
• 3:06:04
  Clara. I'm not sure, it's right,
• 3:06:06
  because it kind of Retreats into a type of conservatism, but I'll
• 3:06:09
  come on to that. So, it's an environmental
• 3:06:12
  message, which is already been referred to here and Joe, pick
• 3:06:17
  you up on that point about the doctor doing nothing because
• 3:06:18
  this is one of those rare stories about the doctor
• 3:06:21
  shouldn't do anything, all they really have to do Is to stop the
• 3:06:26
  government burning the trees. And so they do it as a class
• 3:06:30
  project, don't they? And so Maize voice can be heard,
• 3:06:32
  amazing voice, becomes important.
• 3:06:34
  And I think that's given that this is a class of troubled
• 3:06:38
  children who are called the gifted and talented class, or G,
• 3:06:42
  and T, as they used to be called at the primary school, my
• 3:06:44
  children, go to, which is kind of an adjective there.
• 3:06:47
  It's connected. I think to Courtney in Kill the
• 3:06:51
  moon where to make cheese special.
• 3:06:53
  And the worst thing is to tell a child, it's not special and to
• 3:06:57
  not listen to that child, and this is very important about a
• 3:06:59
  child and about creativity, which is where the Blake in his
• 3:07:02
  comes into it. So it takes his title from Tiger
• 3:07:06
  Tiger Burning Bright He doesn't really have much else in common
• 3:07:10
  with that poem. And this what we see on the
• 3:07:13
  screen it's touch points. As everyone has said it's very
• 3:07:17
  tale. So Sleeping Beauty's alluded to
• 3:07:19
  Red Riding. It is clearly alluded to in the
• 3:07:21
  in the jacket and Hansel and Gretel.
• 3:07:23
  And what's interesting is when you get made knocking on the
• 3:07:27
  door of the TARDIS at the start, Thematically that makes the
• 3:07:32
  Tardis. The gingerbread house and
• 3:07:34
  therefore Capaldi is the wicked witch looks all right.
• 3:07:39
  There's a counter to read that and what actually happens, it
• 3:07:43
  has readily the two Germanic children invade the space of the
• 3:07:45
  woman in the woods who's encoding is anti-Semitism.
• 3:07:50
  And so, there's something Bleak about the Grooms where, how do
• 3:07:52
  you deal with the witch who's people's exhibits anti-jewish
• 3:07:58
  Semitic liables you burn in an oven and you do wonder what
• 3:08:01
  impact that has on German thinking, given how important
• 3:08:05
  the Grooms are and culturally. So, Bright.
• 3:08:10
  And the natural world are really important.
• 3:08:12
  Blake is drawing from Russia in ideas about the table.
• 3:08:16
  So you know so who we probably maybe as a chronic master debate
• 3:08:21
  her and someone who is a best with breastfeeding maybe he
• 3:08:24
  shouldn't have had the cultural cachet.
• 3:08:26
  He had in the 18th century but he does.
• 3:08:28
  And he had this idea as most, people will know the child is a
• 3:08:32
  tablet, Raza, a blank slate, and then civilization, So he doesn't
• 3:08:37
  see a civilized overlays, its ideas onto the child and you
• 3:08:41
  restrict the child and Blake has this idea.
• 3:08:44
  So if you look at the Garden of Love where Blake contrasts a
• 3:08:48
  garden and then he comes back to it and he finds that there's a
• 3:08:50
  gate has been put in front of it, and there's all Thorns and
• 3:08:55
  they restrict the childish activity, the innocent activity
• 3:08:58
  and across the top of it is, Thou shalt not.
• 3:09:00
  And so Christianity has imposed a conventional morality upon
• 3:09:04
  this garden and upon the children who are in it.
• 3:09:06
  The garden pushes back in this And natural world is going to
• 3:09:11
  save the planet, it's got Affinity.
• 3:09:13
  I would suggest with Edge of Darkness, the great Eco
• 3:09:17
  criticism Thriller from 1986 Again a brilliant portrayal of
• 3:09:22
  grief in bulk but there's a crucial moment in that where
• 3:09:26
  Jedburg the CIA agent who's been to Afghanistan. so, another nice
• 3:09:32
  link with this series talks about black flowers that he seen
• 3:09:35
  there and this relates to The guy a theory which is
• 3:09:40
  underpinning Edge of Darkness, because Troy Kennedy Martin read
• 3:09:45
  up on Gaia and lovely argument, and that it's the planet Will
• 3:09:48
  Survive. And the black flower was Bloom
• 3:09:51
  and they cover the Earth and they will say the Earth.
• 3:09:53
  And so, you get a final shot in editors of the black flowers.
• 3:09:55
  Appearing and there's something going on here, the trees appear
• 3:09:59
  to save the planet. A mankind, can't save itself and
• 3:10:03
  there's a real discourse going on here between civilization and
• 3:10:06
  between and cultivation cultivation between the natural
• 3:10:11
  world and a kind of an imposition of order.
• 3:10:13
  So think about like Tudor not Gardens and Blake, of course, is
• 3:10:16
  writing against the backdrop of formal Gardens capability Brown
• 3:10:21
  and the way Austin uses Garden. So if you know, Maxwell Park
• 3:10:26
  where everything goes wrong. When the Birch from girls go
• 3:10:30
  through the haha, Into the Wilderness.
• 3:10:31
  And that's where societal Norms, or imposed, to cycle, Norms
• 3:10:34
  break down. So, this text is working at
• 3:10:36
  really complicated level, but also, it's a children's text.
• 3:10:39
  You put the children in front and center.
• 3:10:40
  It seems in Congress, because as we've all said, this isn't a
• 3:10:45
  season in which children are watching.
• 3:10:46
  No one's watching. But it's been pushed late and
• 3:10:50
  late as a children. Can't watch it.
• 3:10:51
  But here is a great PN to Children's creativity children's
• 3:10:57
  imagination because May thinks her pictures have brought this
• 3:11:00
  Firestorm to earth. Now of course it gets muddy as
• 3:11:04
  to what that actually happens and there is a question about
• 3:11:06
  children's creativity at the end.
• 3:11:08
  It's all going to great message about protecting the Earth
• 3:11:11
  because that's all there is because Moffat doesn't believe
• 3:11:15
  in an afterlife. So it's pointing forward to The
• 3:11:18
  next two episodes where the afterlife he comes very close
• 3:11:22
  to, I don't he States it. Overtly that Missy creates the
• 3:11:26
  notion of an afterlife. He doesn't believe here, life
• 3:11:30
  himself. And so, therefore, this world is
• 3:11:32
  all we've got and therefore you need to protect it.
• 3:11:35
  And that's a really important message, I think, for everyone,
• 3:11:38
  not just children. So I think it's really a
• 3:11:42
  striking moment there and he's pointing forward.
• 3:11:44
  You can see why people don't like what month.
• 3:11:46
  He doesn't terms of the afterlife particularly, if
• 3:11:48
  you're religious, because you challenges fundamental belief.
• 3:11:51
  And so when you add that to His disrupting and ceremonies around
• 3:11:58
  death and disrupt and death itself.
• 3:11:59
  This is really building up to that.
• 3:12:02
  It's crucial as well, I think for Danny, and Clara.
• 3:12:06
  Because of course, Clara looks at Danny differently.
• 3:12:08
  She sees him working with those children.
• 3:12:10
  She sees him doing, as someone said in the comments, what the
• 3:12:12
  doctor should be doing. And of course, when she wants to
• 3:12:15
  send the doctor away, it's to save the doctor.
• 3:12:17
  But it's also because she doesn't need the doctor anymore
• 3:12:21
  because now she recognizes Donnie and the life of that they
• 3:12:24
  can have to get these grounded material life.
• 3:12:26
  It's horribly conservative because it suggests that she's
• 3:12:29
  now responding to a maternal Instinct and that she sees Danny
• 3:12:33
  as a good father And, and it's tied up to the kind of essential
• 3:12:37
  conservatism of the show that she couldn't have a child out of
• 3:12:40
  marriage with them. Therefore, that closed down
• 3:12:42
  closes on that possibility. But the thing is really, it's
• 3:12:46
  really striking that that happens at this moment in the
• 3:12:50
  show and that she turns towards the sense of to have a child to
• 3:12:54
  continue to continue herself in that child, it's against about
• 3:12:59
  the death drive and avoiding the Death Drive is about avoiding
• 3:13:01
  death and a sense of Not immortality, but of continuance
• 3:13:07
  in the real world, which is different to the doctor,
• 3:13:09
  regenerating that he will always continue.
• 3:13:12
  I'll finish up on about the end of it.
• 3:13:14
  Which yeah, you're right. And I know you and I
• 3:13:17
  conversation about this week or online, about its terrible
• 3:13:20
  ending, the child does look to. And I said to you, and what you
• 3:13:22
  don't see is that she butchers the whole family.
• 3:13:24
  When But again it's not meant to do that but it's unclear has
• 3:13:31
  made conjured her sister back into existence because we've got
• 3:13:35
  this notion that she can create through pure thought.
• 3:13:38
  Does she bring her sister back into existence?
• 3:13:41
  Is the system does the sister come home?
• 3:13:43
  You know, we've got soft and fairy tales, you don't come
• 3:13:46
  home. Here in the really Bleak, once
• 3:13:49
  the child dies. Heroes Red Riding Hood.
• 3:13:52
  She's eaten by the wolf and that's the end of it.
• 3:13:54
  You get a moral message, you know, it's the Grimms who have
• 3:13:57
  The Woodcutter, cuts the wolf, open with a pair of scissors and
• 3:14:01
  the grandmother and Red Riding Hood fall out.
• 3:14:03
  And then there's an added all next to it.
• 3:14:05
  Where they go on, they become killers of walls themselves, so
• 3:14:07
  children don't always come home. You don't always get that
• 3:14:10
  comforting message in various. This is kind of a fantasy that
• 3:14:14
  this runaway child comes back. It's probably in the real world
• 3:14:17
  that she doesn't. So you get a happy ending here
• 3:14:21
  because it's, it's kind of necessary because it's too big,
• 3:14:24
  otherwise, but it's pointless on to what's coming next week which
• 3:14:27
  is Clara. Now, realizes she loves Danny,
• 3:14:30
  she can say those words, she can say the other three words, the
• 3:14:34
  horns and the climax. I love you and it gets him
• 3:14:37
  killed because he stands in the road and gets run over the other
• 3:14:42
  thing. I like about this is it makes me
• 3:14:43
  think of the front cover of blood Harvest because they're,
• 3:14:45
  yes, all I'm not gonna. Yeah, I won't fight anyone but I
• 3:14:55
  hope some people listen. I mean that was a brilliantly
• 3:14:57
  compelling argument. My one question is then if this
• 3:15:02
  is working all those layers, this is so Charming.
• 3:15:04
  Why does everybody hate this so much?
• 3:15:07
  It's just the child the children's acting before I
• 3:15:12
  think. I think that's true.
• 3:15:13
  I think, I think I think they're Republican.
• 3:15:15
  And so it turns people off Perfect word for it.
• 3:15:20
  Turned on, of course, otherwise it should be on a register but
• 3:15:23
  how actors always give people the ick.
• 3:15:30
  By and large, I think Young Amelia poems.
• 3:15:33
  In season 11 power is Sublime. Easy exception.
• 3:15:37
  There's something uncanny about to children are weird anyway.
• 3:15:40
  You know, they kind of malignant.
• 3:15:42
  I think about John's Point teenagers are awful, but younger
• 3:15:45
  children aren't great either and they do weird things and they
• 3:15:47
  say weird things and this this lock was around on the cusp.
• 3:15:51
  Because there is a often horned by a fear of adolescent
• 3:15:55
  sexuality. The Grim certainly held hands
• 3:15:58
  and he's weird and CS Lewis, inherits that fear of
• 3:16:02
  particularly female sexuality. So if you look at the red shoes,
• 3:16:07
  or you look, The Little Mermaid, which doesn't have all singing
• 3:16:14
  all kicking crew of lobsters. He's got a girl cutting out or
• 3:16:17
  having a tongue cut out and cutting her tail to go after a
• 3:16:20
  man who then ignores her. And so what's interesting here
• 3:16:23
  is that they this group are prepubescent.
• 3:16:26
  And they have to be because that notion of Innocence runs through
• 3:16:29
  those fairy tales and so they can't quite negotiate Danny and
• 3:16:33
  Clara's relationship and so it's shot.
• 3:16:35
  It's makes it safe as well. Of course, it's very chaste
• 3:16:38
  relationship but it's the crucial moment where she looks
• 3:16:40
  at Danny. She looks at the doctor and she
• 3:16:42
  realizes entirely conservative way.
• 3:16:45
  Her biological future is with Danny and look how well he deals
• 3:16:49
  with these children. And it's time miserable, it's
• 3:16:52
  kind of a, but then the tension between going off of the doctor
• 3:16:56
  and the real world. And of course we all know once
• 3:16:59
  once sex rears its heading Doctor Who that's the end of the
• 3:17:03
  adventure because it's essentially CS Lewis and once
• 3:17:07
  once the characters become interested in sex then they're
• 3:17:10
  not allowed in Narnia anymore and so they have to come out of
• 3:17:13
  the Wardrobe which is the time. And unless of course it's season
• 3:17:16
  6 Series 6 in which case Moffat will not only encourage Hanky
• 3:17:21
  Panky in the Tardis foot driving entire storyline and Erica in
• 3:17:25
  character out of the result their married and then punished
• 3:17:29
  for the act of sex by losing their daughter and then they
• 3:17:32
  die. It follows Louis almost
• 3:17:34
  precisely in terms of how sex isn't allowed in this world,
• 3:17:37
  which makes it incredibly conservative.
• 3:17:39
  But of course the audience, it's not for post 9:00.
• 3:17:42
  It's meant to be six o'clock and if they have to be married, I
• 3:17:47
  mean The closest you come here, the Big Bang.
• 3:17:50
  Obviously, he puts it front and center.
• 3:17:52
  What the point is making but they are punished horribly for
• 3:17:54
  having sex. What was that?
• 3:17:56
  Man? Doing to Doctor Who moffatt?
• 3:17:59
  Yeah, he was pushing it as far as it's possible to go.
• 3:18:02
  And it's all so I say a bit further than that, I think of
• 3:18:07
  he's there too long. He doesn't want to leave because
• 3:18:11
  he doesn't he can. He's working very sharp and
• 3:18:14
  frankly Sherlock wasn't worth taking Doctor Who Charlotte was
• 3:18:17
  always the most overrated thing on TV at that point in time.
• 3:18:19
  And for something with such short Seasons, they shouldn't be
• 3:18:22
  as many dogs as there are in Sherlock, and there's a
• 3:18:27
  sentence, which Moffitt is locked in to this, in a ways
• 3:18:30
  that Russell Davis wasn't and Chipmunks wasn't, and he has he
• 3:18:35
  I there's a weird Psycho Drama going on but between Moffitt and
• 3:18:39
  the show. I think John's point about
• 3:18:41
  what's going on at home in terms of illness and death, he's also
• 3:18:45
  affecting how he's writing. We know that I think from series
• 3:18:50
  9, which is about Greece and about why his block He haven't
• 3:18:54
  sent his phenomenal but it's not Doctor Who it's got a great last
• 3:18:57
  seven minutes but the rest of it is a real slog and I don't try
• 3:19:00
  and put your own in a psychosis on the screen.
• 3:19:04
  Write in a diary, maybe produce it as a novel, but as TV doesn't
• 3:19:07
  really work. And so he's pushing it about as
• 3:19:10
  far as you can go with it, there's overproduction there as
• 3:19:13
  well, of course, I don't, you know, moffett's there too long.
• 3:19:15
  The arrangement syndromes there, he writes too much.
• 3:19:18
  He's a bit like Anthony Burgess and we don't appreciate how good
• 3:19:20
  he is because there's just too much of it there when he's good.
• 3:19:23
  He's amazing. But this this is grueling stuff
• 3:19:26
  and you can see it's kind of it's pure Moffett.
• 3:19:31
  It's as pure of Moffitt as you're gonna see this side of
• 3:19:33
  press game, but that was for a different audience and I think
• 3:19:35
  the other problem is, there's no one here saying, know some of
• 3:19:38
  it. Yes, as showrunner and chief
• 3:19:40
  Wright and producer, and he must be scripted as well.
• 3:19:43
  There's no one there to stop him.
• 3:19:45
  And the other thing, which you compare with the first three and
• 3:19:48
  a half Seasons, you don't or certainly, two three in part
• 3:19:51
  four. You don't have a Executive
• 3:19:56
  producer and producer team, which are consistent.
• 3:19:58
  You don't get the sense of is Phil Collins and his Julia Davis
• 3:20:01
  and people saying maybe we shouldn't do this and I think
• 3:20:04
  that does explain a lot here and you do wonder how far himself
• 3:20:07
  and and Capaldi are driving each other on here and that they're
• 3:20:11
  locked into a relationship. What's interesting is I think
• 3:20:14
  how he's walked away, he won't be back.
• 3:20:15
  You won't be back for big finish.
• 3:20:17
  Doesn't need it. No, he can.
• 3:20:18
  He can walk away. I don't think moffatt can.
• 3:20:20
  And so that sense of Letting Go which off, it keeps going back
• 3:20:23
  to. He can't compel he can.
• 3:20:25
  Yeah, you're absolutely right because it's from what I
• 3:20:28
  understand. Steve, Martin is now, he doesn't
• 3:20:31
  get a reliable, producer, and tilt.
• 3:20:33
  Richie comes on board and I think it's a seasonal after this
• 3:20:36
  or even see who's 10. everyone else he hasn't got, he's a
• 3:20:41
  gardener or Collins and Anyway, they did push back, he erase
• 3:20:45
  them from doctor. I think there's an irony in the,
• 3:20:49
  you know, a couple of years previously.
• 3:20:51
  He did a Big Arc about the doctor getting too big.
• 3:20:55
  And I think that that's exactly what's happened with Moffitt
• 3:20:57
  know what someone should have said to him.
• 3:20:59
  You really might want to rethink.
• 3:21:01
  This probably is now, is there basally making doll too hand in
• 3:21:04
  hand, the pair of him? And no one saying no.
• 3:21:06
  So I've ever Anyway, but it's just fascinating, but it leads
• 3:21:11
  to some very strange places talking, which Jason, how do you
• 3:21:15
  find this is? Yes, remotely convincing people.
• 3:21:19
  Are you suggesting going to change?
• 3:21:21
  Jason's opinion is a very strange place.
• 3:21:22
  I was, I was kind of on the fence with this episode actually
• 3:21:26
  of the five stories in this season.
• 3:21:29
  This is the one I was kind of on the fence with because there's a
• 3:21:32
  kind of for me, an equal balance between the good bits and the
• 3:21:35
  bad bits, as I was called out specifically in the comments, I
• 3:21:40
  suppose I should address the science side trees, do not
• 3:21:44
  control oxygen. They produce oxygen by
• 3:21:49
  photosynthesis as does any green plant?
• 3:21:53
  They also use oxygen because when they're growing, they
• 3:21:56
  respire just like we do. So it's a balancing act between
• 3:21:59
  whether they're photosynthesizing all respiring
• 3:22:01
  and which ones doing more. So, in the dark, they using
• 3:22:04
  oxygen just the same as we are. Remember, Jason arm, the Army?
• 3:22:08
  The audience here? I was just going, okay?
• 3:22:09
  Yeah, please do not control oxygen and most of the point, a
• 3:22:14
  solar flare is not a fucking fire.
• 3:22:17
  It is not a flame, the sun is not a ball of fire.
• 3:22:20
  The sun is a multi-trillion tan unshielded, nuclear fusion,
• 3:22:25
  reactor, and a coronal mass, ejection is just high energy,
• 3:22:28
  particles of solar matter, it's not fire and if you up the
• 3:22:34
  concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere, you don't as the dog
• 3:22:38
  says burn off the excess oxygen doesn't burn oxygen is what
• 3:22:42
  other things burn in. If you up the concentration of
• 3:22:45
  oxygen in the atmosphere, you have just made everything else
• 3:22:48
  on Earth 10 times more flammable.
• 3:22:51
  And so you know the people if anyone tries to drive their car
• 3:22:55
  they're going to be fucked. So flick a light switch or turn
• 3:22:59
  the gas on to cook something in their house.
• 3:23:01
  The oxygen test? Yeah there is Kim Stanley,
• 3:23:06
  Robinson wrote a fantastic Trilogy of books called red
• 3:23:09
  Mars, green, Mars and blue masks which told the story of
• 3:23:12
  humanity. Terraforming, Mars, And using
• 3:23:15
  resources and it's a fantastic Trilogy.
• 3:23:18
  I recommend it. But there's a war that breaks
• 3:23:22
  out and one of the tactics that they use is that they build up
• 3:23:26
  these inflate, they both up these inflatable cities on Mars.
• 3:23:29
  Basically, they've covered them with a plastic membrane because
• 3:23:32
  the atmosphere Mars isn't breathable and they filled it up
• 3:23:34
  and the tactic that these guys use in the war is to hack the
• 3:23:38
  environmental control systems to increase the oxygen content in
• 3:23:41
  the atmosphere and then shoot it with the big laser.
• 3:23:45
  And the whole place Goes Up in Flames because everything
• 3:23:48
  suddenly become flammable because it's been soaking in
• 3:23:50
  oxygen. This is the same thing that
• 3:23:52
  killed the crew of Apollo 1. When a fire broke out inside a
• 3:23:55
  spacecraft on the test, on the ground, which was full of pure
• 3:23:59
  oxygen. so, the whole Bumping up the oxygen to burn off the flare
• 3:24:05
  is just utter utter nonsense. So yeah, the science is
• 3:24:11
  cobblers. That being said, this is a fairy
• 3:24:14
  tale. So as I said, don't Chuck the
• 3:24:17
  science in there because you can get it wrong.
• 3:24:19
  And it just irritates the hell out of me.
• 3:24:22
  I also want to address the thing that everyone's talking about
• 3:24:25
  Donnie pink and Clara sees, Dany Pink as a responsible thing, and
• 3:24:28
  the whole thing is Danny, pink will never leave these children.
• 3:24:31
  Danny pink is a great father figure.
• 3:24:33
  It's really attractive that he's only focused on these children,
• 3:24:36
  but for the entire plot of this episode to get started, he has
• 3:24:41
  to completely fail. To notice one of them has
• 3:24:45
  wondered off for about an hour. It's not until the doctor tells
• 3:24:51
  Clara that Mavis on the Tardis, that either one of them goes
• 3:24:55
  hang on and all her all their classmates.
• 3:24:58
  Nobody mentions. This child has gone, wandering
• 3:25:01
  off. So, Danny Pink as a father
• 3:25:03
  figure does not work because that's still considered on the
• 3:25:07
  right side of responsible parenting.
• 3:25:08
  These days, you know. And because he totally fails to
• 3:25:11
  notice that this kid is disappeared.
• 3:25:14
  It's just so Ridiculous. It's like if you're going to
• 3:25:18
  make the premise, as, as loads of people are pointing out, the
• 3:25:22
  idea that Danny is seen my Clara as a responsible, adult, someone
• 3:25:26
  who would be a good father figure, who make the entire plot
• 3:25:29
  dependent on him failing to notice one of the kids in his
• 3:25:31
  charge as wandered off. And up with the Wicked Witch in
• 3:25:35
  the gingerbread house with which in the gingerbread house.
• 3:25:38
  Exactly. That is just ridiculous. so, I
• 3:25:42
  mean, you've you've said several times there is no threat and
• 3:25:44
  basically, if the doctor did sold all if the whole problem
• 3:25:48
  would just go away anyway, the threat is The humanity wants to
• 3:25:55
  get rid of the trees and that will cause a disaster.
• 3:25:58
  So we could have dispensed with the escaped animals from the zoo
• 3:26:03
  and had the defoliant business going and the rush to stop them
• 3:26:06
  from destroying the trees, before the disaster emphasized
• 3:26:10
  far more than the two-minute bit at the end where they phone up
• 3:26:13
  every phone in the world. And Peppa Pig says, don't hurt
• 3:26:16
  the trees. Claudi on.
• 3:26:21
  There or answer their phone at the same time and go.
• 3:26:23
  All right, this kid says we shouldn't burn the tree, so
• 3:26:25
  let's not burn the trees. Know that's, that's absurd.
• 3:26:28
  That's on the fence than you did.
• 3:26:31
  When you started all that being said, I think it looks
• 3:26:35
  fantastic, like you said that image of a forest in the middle
• 3:26:38
  of London, which is then revealed to be covering the
• 3:26:40
  entire world. The mystery, the fact that the
• 3:26:42
  doctor doesn't know and they have to try and figure out
• 3:26:45
  what's going on. I love that.
• 3:26:46
  I think that's fantastic. I love the fact that he finally
• 3:26:49
  comes to the conclusion that actually this is a natural
• 3:26:51
  phenomenon, he can't fight. It is nothing you can do about
• 3:26:54
  it. I do like that the moment where
• 3:26:58
  Clara sent him away. I think it makes sense, Joe.
• 3:27:02
  You said it was baffling but I think it makes sense because
• 3:27:04
  they've just come to the realization.
• 3:27:05
  Essentially, as far as they know, humanity is now doomed by
• 3:27:09
  this giant solar flare and the forest, there's nothing they can
• 3:27:12
  do. And so Clara says right, I'm
• 3:27:14
  Gonna Save the doctor And I love the fact that she does it, by
• 3:27:18
  mirroring the words that she used, or he mirrors the words
• 3:27:22
  that she used to him and kill the moon.
• 3:27:23
  I walk your Earth. I breathe your air.
• 3:27:26
  I think that's a nice callback to that moment and it shows how
• 3:27:30
  much they've reconciled their relationship.
• 3:27:32
  Now at this point that that conversation can have a
• 3:27:35
  completely different emphasis and meaning for those
• 3:27:37
  characters, I really, really like that.
• 3:27:40
  I mean, I love The a lot of people point out the bus with
• 3:27:46
  the doctor who posted on the side of it appears, I think
• 3:27:49
  that's somebody paying homage to BBC camera 5 in the jungles of
• 3:27:52
  mechanists your opinion. Yeah.
• 3:27:57
  Think about the ending. The fourth of you came to me
• 3:28:00
  Annabelle. Yeah, the ending is absurd.
• 3:28:03
  I think Annabelle was just hiding in the bushes anyway and
• 3:28:05
  then she was hiding in that bush and he's like shit.
• 3:28:08
  Now, there are loads of bushes and find me other things.
• 3:28:11
  She can do magical things all the time.
• 3:28:14
  He's got heroin needles. That's, I mean, I totally.
• 3:28:18
  I totally agree with the awful. I mean that I'm again.
• 3:28:25
  Danny pink is such a great father, figure that he told one
• 3:28:28
  of the kids. She has no imagination.
• 3:28:30
  That's that's something that's picked up.
• 3:28:33
  Well, that was Clara telling it, wasn't it?
• 3:28:34
  I think. Yeah, she was talking to Danny
• 3:28:37
  at that point. She said, I can't be my
• 3:28:38
  imagination. Can it Mr. Pink because you
• 3:28:39
  said, I don't have an imagination, I think that's
• 3:28:41
  terribly. That's that's a terrible idea.
• 3:28:43
  I totally agree with the whole anti medication message is very
• 3:28:46
  problematic. Yes, I mean phrases, right?
• 3:28:49
  He says, the point is, you should be listening to the
• 3:28:51
  child. You can make that point without
• 3:28:53
  referencing medication, I know and have known too many people
• 3:28:57
  who require medication to function.
• 3:29:03
  To have that as a comfortable message in what that thing worse
• 3:29:06
  than the medication, I think, is the way goes?
• 3:29:08
  What's this, what you do in is sort of mocking her for ya
• 3:29:12
  flailing around about, it's just such a weird way.
• 3:29:14
  So I think, you know, loads of loads of series have done that.
• 3:29:18
  Listen to Children thing. I mean, you know, next
• 3:29:21
  generation was doing it in the 1980s with Wesley Crusher in the
• 3:29:24
  first season. Shut up, Wesley, and invariably
• 3:29:27
  Wesley was proven to be correct and they were like, sorry,
• 3:29:30
  Wesley, we should have listened to you.
• 3:29:31
  You can do a listen to Children storyline without mentioning
• 3:29:34
  medications. So I think actually putting it
• 3:29:36
  in there was a really, really bad choice.
• 3:29:37
  So, I mean, there's lots in here that I like, I like that.
• 3:29:42
  It's a different kind of story. I like that.
• 3:29:45
  You know, it's a mystery that they're trying to solve which is
• 3:29:48
  you know far too often you get the doctor turning up and
• 3:29:51
  knowing everything already and it's like this is where we are
• 3:29:54
  and this is what's going on and so on and so forth, the mystery
• 3:29:57
  is, is refreshing. And I think it's great that
• 3:30:02
  we've basically at this point had three episodes on the Trot
• 3:30:04
  where the doctor doesn't know what's going on.
• 3:30:06
  He has to work through the problem and solve it.
• 3:30:10
  And so, I quite like that. So, I was kind of on the fence
• 3:30:13
  with it. I enjoyed it, you know, the kids
• 3:30:14
  were awful, but once you go in knowing that it's got awful kids
• 3:30:17
  in it, you can kind of Park, And work your way through and see.
• 3:30:24
  And yeah, I think the kid who says we will, if you stop
• 3:30:27
  calling us a team, I think he's probably the best in that bungee
• 3:30:29
  just at least to say he does. But when he says it, What is
• 3:30:35
  awful when she gets like this? I forget my anger management.
• 3:30:39
  Oh, shut the fuk up, you. That's a terrible terrible line.
• 3:30:43
  So, yeah, I was kind of on the fence.
• 3:30:46
  I think, probably, I'm veering towards binning it, but not in
• 3:30:49
  a, this is absolute shy and shouldn't, you know, it's one of
• 3:30:52
  the worst episodes ever. I think there's a lot in it to
• 3:30:54
  recommend and to, to be positive about.
• 3:30:58
  But I think just slightly edges over into this just too much in
• 3:31:02
  there. That makes it bin worthy.
• 3:31:03
  So, yeah, I think, I think I would bend this one.
• 3:31:06
  Yeah, so Luke. Are you going to condemn it to
• 3:31:11
  its fate? Yes.
• 3:31:14
  Okay. Oh my goodness, by the way, a
• 3:31:23
  couple episodes ago. Just tell them, just tell her,
• 3:31:26
  she's special, just tell her, she's special.
• 3:31:28
  The couple episodes later. We find out that telling the
• 3:31:31
  kids that there's something unimaginative What are you
• 3:31:34
  doing? I, I have to listen to a lot of
• 3:31:38
  podcasts, I don't have to, but I do, but invariably, I will
• 3:31:41
  listen to them. Tell me stuff like Oh, Davidson
• 3:31:46
  and Jerry did not very proactive, doctors and all that
• 3:31:49
  kind of stuff and they don't really have much to do with the
• 3:31:52
  plot and all that. And, you know, probably sing the
• 3:31:56
  prizes of one of the most fatty and doctors or something like
• 3:31:59
  that. Well, he's a doctor.
• 3:32:01
  Who doesn't really even need to be there.
• 3:32:03
  And everything kind of would have happened at the same time.
• 3:32:06
  Also, if these trees can just deflect like a massive solar
• 3:32:14
  flare, he what they can't handle like someone with a cigarette
• 3:32:18
  lighter, a whole bunch of people with flamethrowers or something
• 3:32:21
  like I don't know, like maybe if they're using in pesticide or
• 3:32:27
  something else chemical or something, maybe that would have
• 3:32:30
  Worked, but burning burning a forest.
• 3:32:32
  That is I proof. How is that?
• 3:32:37
  That's not gonna work. Is it?
• 3:32:38
  Because that's gonna be a further defense from the I don't
• 3:32:43
  like this is supposed to be London.
• 3:32:45
  I like this. We see the landmarks and things
• 3:32:47
  like that. But one thing I noticed when I
• 3:32:50
  was in London, in 2018, Fucking lots of people in it.
• 3:32:55
  Like, I, I used to live in Melbourne.
• 3:32:57
  I'm too well, I was out of Melbourne and the country, but
• 3:33:03
  There's a lot of people there, but there's not a lot of people
• 3:33:06
  there in comparison to like, like, I thought that was a big
• 3:33:09
  bustling busy city until I went to an actual big bustling beep.
• 3:33:13
  Beep, be busy City like London. Where's the people?
• 3:33:16
  There's no one looting. Like, what?
• 3:33:18
  I mean, you don't really need that doctor, but where's all the
• 3:33:22
  people just at least just walk around and goals.
• 3:33:24
  You know, these trees, it's the only person who isn't like a
• 3:33:29
  teacher or a kid that we kind of see Roman about the whole
• 3:33:32
  episode. He's made his mom.
• 3:33:36
  Like that's it. That's the only person we really
• 3:33:38
  see. Okay.
• 3:33:41
  So yeah. There's Man.
• 3:33:47
  Danny pink. His army train?
• 3:33:50
  So and survival skills, all this kind of stuff, man.
• 3:33:55
  You've got all the tools to make like traveling in the Tardis
• 3:33:58
  like a little easier on the two people that are in it but now
• 3:34:02
  you don't want to go anywhere or do anything.
• 3:34:05
  Look out, just like handling, he's like, oh, I got no problem
• 3:34:09
  flesh, the lights out at it, very practical, very cool.
• 3:34:13
  Calm and collected. I like that.
• 3:34:15
  Danny pink, the one that I like that Danny pink, that does this,
• 3:34:19
  with the tiger. That I know, it's pretty cheesy.
• 3:34:22
  But I like seeing him do the freaking acrobatic flip in the
• 3:34:25
  cat. Take it that kind of stuff.
• 3:34:27
  Oh my God, a bit of an extra man military and stuff rather than
• 3:34:30
  this. It's got how old is Danny pink?
• 3:34:34
  Because sometimes I feel like he has the kind of demeanor of like
• 3:34:39
  it 80 year old who just wants to kind of Be where he grew up and
• 3:34:45
  just kind of reflect on everything he's white young for
• 3:34:49
  that, get in the freaking toss and go right.
• 3:34:51
  It's fine to be that person. That's doesn't belong to doesn't
• 3:34:55
  he of the companion adults too? Yeah.
• 3:35:01
  Like, yeah, he's, he's essentially a non-doctor who
• 3:35:05
  fan, you know. We've already done that with
• 3:35:09
  Jackie Tyler. I were like absolute
• 3:35:11
  gangbusters. I'd like to more than I just
• 3:35:14
  funny and Danny pink isn't Yeah, and I and I agree with you Joe,
• 3:35:19
  it's not his, it's not Mr. Anderson's fault because I think
• 3:35:27
  he's a good actor I think he Plays the character they want
• 3:35:30
  him to portray perfectly fine. It's just that.
• 3:35:33
  He's really boring. You know what, I call him, he
• 3:35:36
  kind of reminds me of the Skyler effect.
• 3:35:38
  If you've ever watched Breaking Bad, you've got Walter White.
• 3:35:42
  He's this big. He becomes his big drug,
• 3:35:44
  kingpin. You've got all these other Shady
• 3:35:46
  characters that come in. And out of the show, Skyler, is
• 3:35:50
  married to well to White perfectly normal reasonable.
• 3:35:55
  Housewife kind of person who has very real reasonable responses
• 3:36:02
  to what her husband and everyone else's up to.
• 3:36:06
  But because she holds the plot up or something like that or
• 3:36:11
  because she doesn't want to get involved in all the Shady stuff
• 3:36:14
  that we enjoy watching the fans. Freaking hey, that woman.
• 3:36:19
  And there's a bit of that kind of stuff in dirty pink, he's too
• 3:36:24
  normal. I guess two kind of dull and
• 3:36:27
  mundane so when he does call things out or kind of has a
• 3:36:30
  point or something like that, I'm just like, I don't care.
• 3:36:32
  You're boring. It's just go back to the
• 3:36:34
  interesting assholes please or something, you know?
• 3:36:37
  so, I don't He should. work, but he just doesn't I feel like he's
• 3:36:45
  yeah, as I said, probably the worst of the three companion
• 3:36:49
  boyfriends that I can I can think about So, yeah, I like
• 3:36:53
  seeing him protect the kids and with the Tiger but yeah, he does
• 3:36:58
  forget one of them. Where's the, where's the tree
• 3:37:01
  defense? When the solar flares make make
• 3:37:04
  all of humanity have to escape in a gigantic Ark?
• 3:37:07
  And he can't tell me there's no nature or anything on Earth at
• 3:37:11
  that point either because well, what was it?
• 3:37:13
  This entire experiment. Lots of trees around on Earth
• 3:37:18
  and that son in that time in the very far future, whenever that's
• 3:37:21
  it. So, I don't know this what?
• 3:37:23
  So the tree defense with the solar flares today.
• 3:37:27
  Yes. But like if you say doesn't ten
• 3:37:30
  thousand years in the future of something crazy like that, It
• 3:37:34
  doesn't work and we all have to escape the Earth.
• 3:37:36
  Somehow. I understand the environmental
• 3:37:39
  messages trying to give us as well.
• 3:37:43
  But you know, why would the tree defense just use like you've got
• 3:37:48
  everything's covered in trees now and you know what?
• 3:37:50
  We need more of on this Earth. It's more trees.
• 3:37:53
  So they all just piss off and we and all right, we couldn't have
• 3:37:58
  given us like some extra trees or something.
• 3:38:00
  I don't know, we kind of need them because we keep cutting the
• 3:38:03
  bloody things down. How about, if how about Earth
• 3:38:05
  Defense? Very tree people.
• 3:38:08
  The key cutting down the Amazon. You want to grow that back up
• 3:38:11
  for us or something, whereas, your defense from that, I don't
• 3:38:14
  know, it's just It's making up. It's just making it the end.
• 3:38:20
  It's all portrayed as if the trees vanish and it's all the
• 3:38:23
  end everything happily ever after.
• 3:38:25
  But, you know, as the doctor already pointed out, London Zoo
• 3:38:28
  is mangled. So there are wild animals.
• 3:38:29
  Now running around somebody, every major city in the world
• 3:38:34
  that has a zoo that has these dangerous carnivorous animals.
• 3:38:38
  Nelson's column is falling over, so they must be other structural
• 3:38:42
  damage, the repair bill. At the end of this is gonna be
• 3:38:45
  economically crippling for every major city income.
• 3:38:50
  Dark Water though. So, you know, it's just.
• 3:38:53
  Yeah. And, and yeah, what happened,
• 3:38:55
  why didn't it work with the Ark in space?
• 3:38:57
  Why? Yeah, it's all kind of yeah and
• 3:39:02
  the tower event and the other impact event yet, they are real
• 3:39:06
  things that actually happened but the trees The trees in
• 3:39:10
  tunguska didn't save anybody because there was no one there
• 3:39:12
  to say. It was just a big Forest that
• 3:39:14
  got flattened. So for Forest gets flattened and
• 3:39:17
  no one is there to see it, does it happen?
• 3:39:20
  Never mind like to go back to what you saying about.
• 3:39:24
  Samuelson very quickly, I know we don't need any more
• 3:39:26
  deviations, I'm so sorry. Um, I don't think he's entirely
• 3:39:31
  to blame. He's very boring in the role,
• 3:39:33
  but he's also has zero chemistry with Jenna Holmen who is also
• 3:39:37
  quite boring in that relationship in that role as
• 3:39:40
  well. When I watched him in Trolley,
• 3:39:42
  he's in a relationship with Ashley B from Eve of the Daleks.
• 3:39:46
  Yeah. And the two of them are funny as
• 3:39:49
  hell. They have amazing chemistry.
• 3:39:51
  He beams off the screen. He's smiling all the time.
• 3:39:55
  And watch these two in this season.
• 3:39:58
  Fuck me. They look like, they're
• 3:39:59
  contemplating suicide when they're having a romantic night
• 3:40:02
  in there as to blame each other, for this relationship.
• 3:40:05
  All working. Oh yeah.
• 3:40:07
  He's from that history, boys, cars.
• 3:40:09
  He's a really good actor. Yeah, but I don't believe it.
• 3:40:14
  When I wash him in that I could, is that really Danny pink,
• 3:40:17
  right. I think the problem is that
• 3:40:19
  Danny has to be this antithesis of the doctor, he has to be the
• 3:40:22
  solid reliable, and yeah, boring guy at home.
• 3:40:26
  Rather than the guy you run off with really excitement.
• 3:40:28
  That's why I will make this joke very quickly.
• 3:40:31
  That's why freeze loves him so much.
• 3:40:33
  He's literally a solid reliable Family Guy, right?
• 3:40:37
  This is Fraser at a doctor who story now, Fraser, I'm not
• 3:40:40
  saying you're boring, please. I'll spend far too much time
• 3:40:42
  with you to say that but you know, I'm not sure.
• 3:40:46
  Doctors story would be improved with you in it, if I'm entirely
• 3:40:50
  on his sorry job think it would um, So yeah, it's in the bin.
• 3:40:56
  and, the thing is, Frankfort Boyce, I think he's a current
• 3:41:01
  children's lawyer. He certainly been the children's
• 3:41:03
  lawyer if he's not He is a very good kids novelist and he's
• 3:41:09
  obviously being employed here to provoke what this world, which
• 3:41:13
  is, right? The kids are you, there's film
• 3:41:14
  called millions of Danny Boyle film, which has a lot of
• 3:41:18
  charming which does and presents from the, from the child's View.
• 3:41:23
  And he has absolutely infused this with the Charles.
• 3:41:28
  If you say promise scene, where she runs into the Tardis, that's
• 3:41:32
  again, that's actually Everything in this story is
• 3:41:37
  about child of you. The fact that there are no
• 3:41:39
  people around. Children don't notice the people
• 3:41:43
  unless they want to, you know. No, I stride John.
• 3:41:47
  I don't wait here. And it doesn't always work.
• 3:41:55
  I think the medication thing, the intention is to suggest that
• 3:42:01
  she's been medicated because adults aren't interested in
• 3:42:04
  listening to that problem. but, It doesn't come across well at
• 3:42:10
  all because with a story, you know, the signal that song
• 3:42:17
  receipt from your story, may not be what you intended and that's
• 3:42:19
  what's happened here and I think it's the majority people really
• 3:42:22
  do see that way. You know the comments say the
• 3:42:25
  fan reaction has said that I think it's much more.
• 3:42:29
  Beautifully met. Um, it's a moment where I think
• 3:42:32
  the doctor and Clara the one side of the fans are going.
• 3:42:35
  We'll save, you will say you went, you know, when I think
• 3:42:37
  it's a wolves, all the tiger, the one side, And the girl just
• 3:42:41
  goes, open the gate. Oh, just movement.
• 3:42:45
  I love that. That's the way you need to make
• 3:42:47
  that point. Um again and the way that you
• 3:42:52
  know, the trees fade again that's made from the children's
• 3:42:55
  and the children just forget it, it's moved on.
• 3:42:57
  It's something that happened to them.
• 3:43:00
  So I think it does give that children's point of view
• 3:43:05
  absolutely brilliantly. Problem is.
• 3:43:10
  This. So, little incident through it
• 3:43:12
  meanders I love that kind of idea of it.
• 3:43:18
  But it Doctor Who is fundamentally an adventure
• 3:43:21
  series. I love that they are trying to
• 3:43:24
  tell that story. But they don't.
• 3:43:28
  Tell an interesting. It's not a novel.
• 3:43:31
  This could work as a novel. Because you don't you could you
• 3:43:34
  could internalize so much of it, you know, the performance of the
• 3:43:38
  kids as well like exactly. But you can't you can't do adopt
• 3:43:46
  who story? Which just me and which meanders
• 3:43:49
  beautifully? I think it's too beautifully.
• 3:43:51
  Directed, the imagery? Is lovely.
• 3:43:54
  And even, you know, I said that opening thing I thought, is this
• 3:43:59
  gonna be better than I thought it was. and, I, I would love to
• 3:44:05
  put it through the ambition rate but I don't think It's too
• 3:44:09
  slight. Fundamentally to be, you know,
• 3:44:13
  to be in a really interesting. It's I think Frank cultural boys
• 3:44:17
  gets it right when it comes back to show.
• 3:44:20
  But I don't think he's quite nailed it as a television.
• 3:44:23
  Right to stop, which is odd, because he does have experience.
• 3:44:27
  So yeah, this is the one I went. Yeah, I'm getting.
• 3:44:32
  It's one of those where you Now I've made maybe 50 50 on it, but
• 3:44:37
  yeah, I just bought it. I like quite trying.
• 3:44:41
  But it's just doesn't get what it wants to go with it.
• 3:44:44
  So I'm with Joe. And this one yet is going in the
• 3:44:48
  bit. It's being burnt.
• 3:44:49
  It's it's you know, the trees aren't saving this one. the fact
• 3:44:53
  that you and oh, well, the two sort of, you know, Pro the title
• 3:44:58
  of season 8. I was a hole.
• 3:45:00
  Yeah, Yeah, you been in the forested or not.
• 3:45:04
  Paul bins, Flatline for God's sakes.
• 3:45:07
  One of you is more controversial.
• 3:45:10
  He's green there. Coyote good or something like
• 3:45:18
  that. That's why it's called two more
• 3:45:20
  days, your permanent. So that leads us with just one
• 3:45:28
  story. I can't say I was expecting to
• 3:45:30
  be left with this one. So start the clock on mummy on
• 3:45:35
  the Orient Express. Oh, can everyone get their
• 3:45:38
  arguments in 66 seconds previous performances?
• 3:45:42
  Yes, not our episode Jason, 66 minutes.
• 3:45:49
  How is that each in the morning? Darling.
• 3:45:56
  Oh, um, I mean, but let's start with Michael pick, but Michael
• 3:46:00
  pick world is really I know people know his name, he is one
• 3:46:06
  of the hero of this hero who should be some more, he has
• 3:46:10
  essentially a similar problem to you know, to horrifying Rock.
• 3:46:16
  He's you have a limited and he makes this look so stylish so
• 3:46:21
  Jazz Age. So gorgeous this you know it's a
• 3:46:25
  lovely set. It's it's beautiful something to
• 3:46:29
  look at because the idea Doctor Who Cells and limited spaces.
• 3:46:34
  But, you know, something like training.
• 3:46:37
  It's quite often quite dull to look at and this is never to
• 3:46:41
  look at. Even when it goes to the
• 3:46:42
  scientific Laboratories at the end, he is finding ways to make
• 3:46:45
  these things. Look fascinating, I talked about
• 3:46:48
  it. I think one reason why it has to
• 3:46:51
  come and I will come for Anyone who puts it out, is Clara's
• 3:46:55
  outfit. We've mentioned it already my
• 3:46:57
  God. You can't count on me, then I'm
• 3:47:00
  afraid. Oh, what kind of these?
• 3:47:03
  I love these podcasts. We go through all this deeper
• 3:47:05
  analysis. We've talked about Milton.
• 3:47:07
  We've talked about Blake, we've talked and then it comes down to
• 3:47:10
  Florida. Fucking that outfit.
• 3:47:12
  Did you hear the first half all? This was and that was all Joe.
• 3:47:19
  Yeah, no. Yeah.
• 3:47:20
  Was The audience. I gotta be so thrilled.
• 3:47:23
  The heterosexuals have never been so represented.
• 3:47:26
  Here she does have the he does have the role that old thing.
• 3:47:29
  What, what happens with Clara's hair?
• 3:47:33
  Because she has a lovely lovely Bob in this episode.
• 3:47:37
  She looks absolutely gorgeous. And then in the very next
• 3:47:40
  episode, how much time is elapsed between this and
• 3:47:43
  Flatline? Because suddenly she's back to
• 3:47:44
  having long hair again it's her hair is gone, no I'm back
• 3:47:47
  serious of weeks and I think that's thanks.
• 3:47:51
  What Paul saying is that even in the storage, to talk about
• 3:47:55
  narrative tissue between them, there is no narrative tissue and
• 3:47:59
  I think it's almost It's almost like a jigsaw puzzle, made a
• 3:48:03
  corn flakes, it would no matter how you do it, it won't fit
• 3:48:05
  together. It can't fit together.
• 3:48:11
  The teaser I love that track yolk.
• 3:48:13
  The whole start the clock. It's immediate.
• 3:48:15
  It gets you straight into the action, it happened and it's
• 3:48:18
  something you could repeat through the episode.
• 3:48:20
  And again the doctor figuring out and it figures out through
• 3:48:24
  this, 66 seconds and that is absolutely beautiful done.
• 3:48:29
  I love that the solution of the whole thing, normally, you know,
• 3:48:34
  the Doctor Who is blow it all out, or use a screwdriver to
• 3:48:39
  Flatline. The solution, the doctor finds
• 3:48:42
  here. Yeah, in that 66 seconds.
• 3:48:45
  To surrender. To give himself up.
• 3:48:50
  It's the opposite. It's Jamie bass and has come in.
• 3:48:55
  And he proves this story, you know, it's a doctor, solving a
• 3:48:58
  mystery in a limited space. He proves that he can tell a
• 3:49:03
  straightforward doctors story. Well, And then he can invert
• 3:49:08
  that at the end and do it. Absolutely beautiful.
• 3:49:14
  Um so again I'd look Frank Skinner in this as well.
• 3:49:17
  He is limited actor. But all he has to do is sell it
• 3:49:21
  with a little bit of charm, it's a kind of charm.
• 3:49:23
  You need to sell dog to that with.
• 3:49:24
  Its kind of horror, it's a soft kind of horror.
• 3:49:27
  You need someone to just kind of diffuse, the edges and neither
• 3:49:30
  Capaldi or Coleman good. As they are have the presence to
• 3:49:34
  do that. They're actors with with an edge
• 3:49:36
  to them. Just got a player like he can't
• 3:49:38
  really be asked to act and he does it really absolutely
• 3:49:41
  twinkle in his eyes as well. Yeah.
• 3:49:43
  Yeah. I love at the end so if you want
• 3:49:46
  to come outside now and no Thanksgiving is going.
• 3:49:49
  Oh take me on Stephen please and Bobby. but, The problem in the
• 3:50:05
  it's trying to force Doctor, Clara relationship, we're just
• 3:50:09
  want to go. It was kids Doctrine car, the
• 3:50:12
  kind of fun. Relationship.
• 3:50:14
  You know, the fun adventure with Jeopardy so it can kind of move
• 3:50:19
  them to. Yeah, I do want to travel with
• 3:50:21
  him, I know the part the point is how is indecisive as to what
• 3:50:25
  she wants that. You know, it's the Romantic push
• 3:50:28
  and pull But it gets the end and it feels like the story doesn't
• 3:50:35
  quite earn that ending with the characters.
• 3:50:38
  I don't feel. It's absolutely right.
• 3:50:43
  So I'm so just that because it's a good story.
• 3:50:48
  So I'm right. But just because it doesn't
• 3:50:51
  quite, it doesn't do what it wants with the camera, you're
• 3:50:56
  no, I'm going to fit it. John.
• 3:50:59
  Oh, you flawed me. Oh, okay.
• 3:51:04
  You've now taken the crown off pool being like a special one.
• 3:51:07
  So with that, I think we have on to the comments.
• 3:51:13
  Oh, start with Fraser Gregory. Shall I how do you imagine?
• 3:51:16
  He's gonna think about this one. The fourth old is a proper sort
• 3:51:20
  of Walls, Way, spooky monster, it's fabulously staged.
• 3:51:24
  Frank Skinner, may wish he'd had a better day in the office but
• 3:51:27
  he's playing a pretty heart little girl way.
• 3:51:29
  So I doubt he cares. Okay, it's freezer go with it
• 3:51:33
  seems to be trying to see the recurring Dylan, shame, it
• 3:51:37
  didn't James happened. Bennett I'm never 100% sold on
• 3:51:42
  the doctor not even trying to save someone in the first final
• 3:51:45
  66 seconds. But damn atmospheric tale looks
• 3:51:49
  superb. Keep hey, Fraser is right where
• 3:51:53
  The fuk happened with gusts today, we're trying to come
• 3:51:55
  back. No, no.
• 3:51:59
  Math isn't creates two interesting villains into
• 3:52:01
  episode anyway. Where am I?
• 3:52:04
  Hey it's it's Jamie. Mummy had potential but on the
• 3:52:09
  whole Dreadful, Edward, cook, Reese, absolutely loves this
• 3:52:14
  episode. Again, it's got a great cast the
• 3:52:17
  atmosphere, but it's got a great premise, too gripping stuff.
• 3:52:22
  The inimitable Gareth Boley, unless it's over here.
• 3:52:25
  Lovely tension. Building on a mystery, the
• 3:52:28
  doctor, weighs his most Classic series looking at it.
• 3:52:31
  And we have frax Skinner too all of bored for this time one.
• 3:52:36
  With this time one. Yeah.
• 3:52:38
  Jack Koya, a much more traditional Doctor, Who Tale?
• 3:52:42
  But framed with a more wistful one last trip attitude.
• 3:52:45
  The doctor gets to be more heroic than before with a nice
• 3:52:50
  mix of the Capaldi Edge. And sincerity Clara struggle to
• 3:52:54
  kick her addiction is compelling and it's obvious that this
• 3:52:57
  triangle is going to come crashing down.
• 3:52:59
  Soon, it's a shame that the production schedule keeps Jenna
• 3:53:02
  in separate scenes. The Agatha, Christie narrative
• 3:53:05
  structure and style, he's reformatted nicely but coming
• 3:53:09
  back around to the soldier. Died tribe, die tribe is odd.
• 3:53:14
  David Gillespie prep very short. I liked it.
• 3:53:16
  It helps that it's Clara light. Nemesis like Michael storm.
• 3:53:22
  A superb return to form an ineffective mix of classic and
• 3:53:26
  new Huey. Those, the doctor is dark
• 3:53:28
  ruthless and alien but acknowledges his approaches
• 3:53:30
  flawed Clara's flapper outfit is divine.
• 3:53:34
  The Mummy is fantastic. Be realized the setting is
• 3:53:39
  great. Darren Randalls says mummy on
• 3:53:45
  the Orient Express is one of the most fun well-paced well
• 3:53:49
  characterized and enjoyable episodes of new.
• 3:53:51
  Certainly my favorite Capaldi. Cresa Mary.
• 3:53:56
  My thoughts really? This would be actually be quite
• 3:53:58
  good. It wasn't for all the bloody
• 3:54:00
  Clara stuff, lingering around, and making it about her as
• 3:54:04
  usual. Matty, mummy on the audit
• 3:54:07
  Express, is a top 10 ever for me.
• 3:54:09
  Perfect doctor. Daniel Ron's Lee says, holy and
• 3:54:15
  retro in ways, only Doctor, Who can be with a cracker of a scary
• 3:54:19
  monster to help pepper over the plot holes.
• 3:54:21
  It's a well-rounded and much needed autopsy of the doctor and
• 3:54:25
  Clara's relationship or Topsy's are done.
• 3:54:27
  When it's over, not as it's going on.
• 3:54:29
  Anyway. Sorry, where am I?
• 3:54:35
  Other documents relationship, even if they're reconciliation.
• 3:54:38
  Seen recycles, that same Beach from the last of the time Lords.
• 3:54:43
  And finally, Daniel Knight, who has been Hard on this batch of
• 3:54:48
  episodes says, mummy is the best story of the series, perhaps,
• 3:54:52
  even the era itself. A horror with a clever premise,
• 3:54:56
  and an excellent cast, the seen on the beach finally made me
• 3:55:01
  accept Capaldi's doctor although he's a lot of fun here.
• 3:55:04
  And Clara is not too irritating. However, John sessions is a
• 3:55:07
  sorry John sessions as Gus is a great villain.
• 3:55:12
  All right, Jason, how are you feeling about?
• 3:55:16
  Mummy on the Orient Express, I love mommy on the Orient
• 3:55:19
  Express. my my only reservation about it is a purely aesthetic,
• 3:55:24
  one a training space looks silly, It's beautifully realized
• 3:55:30
  but I just think it looks absurd.
• 3:55:32
  But that is a very minor nitpick.
• 3:55:35
  I just like the power of the doctor one as well.
• 3:55:37
  Yeah trains in space know. That was a space train.
• 3:55:41
  I was wasn't it? Yeah.
• 3:55:42
  Much better when it's boats and stuff.
• 3:55:45
  He just anyway. Orient.
• 3:55:49
  Express in space. Yeah.
• 3:55:50
  Okay, fine. I will, I would like to give a
• 3:55:56
  shout out to the production team for achieving on multiple
• 3:55:59
  occasions. Something that most television
• 3:56:02
  series and sci-fi in particular, fail spectacularly at which is a
• 3:56:07
  countdown that actually lasts the right amount of time each
• 3:56:11
  time multiple times throughout the episode.
• 3:56:14
  And yet, they make each one different with what's crammed
• 3:56:16
  into it. You know how many times have
• 3:56:19
  you? I mean, you know, the end of
• 3:56:20
  Independence Day, you've got a 30 second countdown and it takes
• 3:56:22
  them 90 seconds just to get out of the ship, you know, it's just
• 3:56:25
  you try and think about what you're doing, but they got 66
• 3:56:29
  seconds, right? Bang and they do 66 seconds.
• 3:56:32
  Each time with the clock on the screen.
• 3:56:34
  So I love it. I think it's really well done.
• 3:56:36
  It was, I a slight personal element to it.
• 3:56:42
  I was very happy to see Chris Villas who's a lovely bloke
• 3:56:44
  about 20 or two years ago now I was I took acting lessons with
• 3:56:51
  him. Which culminated in a one-night
• 3:56:55
  performance with the group, with the group on the fortune theater
• 3:56:58
  in London's West End. So I can legitimately say I have
• 3:57:00
  played the West End. Once and I wasn't great to be
• 3:57:04
  perfectly honest. But you know, I've been on the
• 3:57:07
  fortune theater. So there we go.
• 3:57:09
  Did you play the ranting scientist of it?
• 3:57:11
  You'd be amazing in that role know, rather.
• 3:57:13
  Ironically, I was one of two drunks and anyone who knows me
• 3:57:19
  knows that my alcohol consumption is way below.
• 3:57:21
  So when, when the class was run by Chris Villas and another
• 3:57:25
  actress called Liz McKechnie, Who was in the tripods,
• 3:57:28
  actually. It's one of her first acting
• 3:57:29
  roles and she took us to one side and she said to us.
• 3:57:34
  Right, what we need to do, you know, when you get to that stage
• 3:57:37
  of being drunk, where everything swimming a bit and you're
• 3:57:39
  getting double vision and we both went, no, we don't drink.
• 3:57:42
  Your kidding me. I've cast the only two Tito's in
• 3:57:45
  the group as alcoholics. This is ridiculous.
• 3:57:50
  So yeah but that's that's by the buy.
• 3:57:52
  So yeah, so nice to see Chris Brothers, but yeah, I mean
• 3:57:55
  there's some great stuff in it. I love again, it's another
• 3:57:58
  episode. It's an episode where the doctor
• 3:58:00
  hasn't is. Did you sing something and
• 3:58:02
  trying to come up with a solution?
• 3:58:03
  I like the edge of it where you know, it's okay, we've got 66
• 3:58:08
  seconds, we're not going to solve it.
• 3:58:09
  I'm gonna get as much information from each person who
• 3:58:12
  dies as I can. Particular shout out for it.
• 3:58:17
  David Bamber who plays the captain of the yeah, of the
• 3:58:20
  thing. I love his.
• 3:58:23
  At first it's just like no there's nothing going on and I
• 3:58:27
  when I watched it the first time around and this time it turns
• 3:58:31
  out it's three. The number of people who have to
• 3:58:33
  die before. I start stop looking the other
• 3:58:35
  way and then and his final moments his finalized, thank you
• 3:58:38
  for waking me up, which I think is a great little Arc that that
• 3:58:41
  character goes on in that in the short amount of screen time, he
• 3:58:44
  has, and you do then feel his death. so, I think that's That's
• 3:58:50
  really good. I did like the ending with the
• 3:58:55
  doctor, on the beach, where he's like, I didn't know Clara's
• 3:59:01
  pushed him into taking the role and sorting out by calling him
• 3:59:04
  out on his behavior, which is, you know, fair enough.
• 3:59:09
  But his final bit about sometimes, the only choice is
• 3:59:11
  you have a bad ones, but you still have to choose I think is
• 3:59:13
  a very I think it's a very significant message.
• 3:59:19
  Sometimes you get you are in situations where, you know, Star
• 3:59:23
  Trek, did it with the Kobe shemaroo Doctor Who has done it
• 3:59:25
  here. Sometimes you only have bad
• 3:59:27
  choices, you just have to use. So yeah, I did like that so I
• 3:59:32
  love Mummy on the Orient Express.
• 3:59:35
  I think I've covered everything that I've Written down on that.
• 3:59:39
  So yeah. I think this is a this is a
• 3:59:41
  great one. Again the only thing I don't
• 3:59:42
  like the end is when Clara makes her decision to start lying to
• 3:59:46
  both Danny and the doctor about going back onto the Tardis and
• 3:59:48
  it's just That's not where I want the doctor, companion
• 3:59:52
  relationship to be going. So that's that's a point against
• 3:59:57
  it but otherwise the episode itself freed for some of that I
• 4:00:02
  think it's fantastic. I I really do I really do love
• 4:00:05
  it. So yeah mummy on the already
• 4:00:06
  Express I would absolutely put through.
• 4:00:09
  So so it's a one-one and Luke. What what are your thoughts
• 4:00:14
  here? He probably could put me on now
• 4:00:17
  and yeah, because this is slam dunk for me as in putting it
• 4:00:21
  through, I do have niggles. Like I think my backhand
• 4:00:26
  compliment for this story is as much as I like it.
• 4:00:28
  I can't help but think I would love it if we had a different
• 4:00:32
  Tardis team in it. And I feel like that
• 4:00:39
  occasionally about a doctor whose story I'm like, oh, I like
• 4:00:42
  that. I think I might like to better
• 4:00:44
  with maybe this combo instead, so this is one of those because
• 4:00:49
  I I just think like Agatha Christie train in space.
• 4:00:53
  Mommy's killing people on a time limit.
• 4:00:56
  Oh my God, that sounds awesome. And then you got a companion and
• 4:01:01
  Doctor Who don't really like each other and doctor is a bit
• 4:01:03
  kind of Frosty. So I think I would have liked
• 4:01:07
  maybe at the energy of this story a bit more if it was.
• 4:01:10
  Yeah even if it was Matt Smith and Amy Pond I'm not aiming Pond
• 4:01:14
  fan either but I feel like they would absolutely lap this up.
• 4:01:18
  Like a lot of combos would Donna on this train would be fantastic
• 4:01:22
  as well. Where's your ticket?
• 4:01:23
  Just Sizzle in this? Chew this up.
• 4:01:27
  Alright, take it, really do that.
• 4:01:29
  Flapless dress as well. Oh, I think this one fits in
• 4:01:33
  perfectly with Capaldi's doctor though because so part of it is
• 4:01:36
  his apparent callousness in going right?
• 4:01:39
  Well, you're going to die, but give me all the information you
• 4:01:41
  can. And I'm not sure that that would
• 4:01:43
  Work so well with other. Doctors, he stops that.
• 4:01:49
  We've seen already a bit less. Fun and you know wants to save
• 4:01:54
  everybody. He's now very openly going.
• 4:01:56
  Well, you're gonna die. So tell me everything before you
• 4:01:58
  do so that I can Move on. I'm not sure, just say well
• 4:02:04
  we're gonna try and save you. We may not I thought you could
• 4:02:08
  just make minor adjust Capaldi's come in but the whole but the
• 4:02:11
  whole list. Yeah, but the whole point the
• 4:02:14
  whole point it pivots on the end where Clara says, you made me
• 4:02:18
  lie to somebody to get them here so that because you knew they
• 4:02:21
  were going to die if this went on.
• 4:02:23
  So that's where the whole story pivots.
• 4:02:25
  So, I don't, I'm not sure it would work so well, with any
• 4:02:28
  other doctor companion, team, I think it works with a Muffet
• 4:02:31
  one, because I think this is a moth that doctor not just a
• 4:02:33
  Capaldi one. I think Capaldi has that more
• 4:02:35
  abrasive front, but Smith is very much the same kind of
• 4:02:38
  doctor to me. But just with the, if there's
• 4:02:41
  more of a condom Capaldi, He Just Smiles a bit brighter.
• 4:02:46
  But there are things that do really like there's the The
• 4:02:51
  Cabaret racing or singing, Don't Stop Me Now by Queen that's
• 4:02:54
  gorgeous in that awesome? I love it.
• 4:02:57
  The doctor is rocking his Colonel Sanders look and I think
• 4:03:02
  he pulls it off I think it's really cool.
• 4:03:04
  I love jelly babies in the Cigar Case, I love that the captain's
• 4:03:13
  complaining that he just lost his best guard.
• 4:03:15
  He turns out to be a hologram and not even a real person.
• 4:03:19
  So that makes me quite a chuckle, my Island maybe niggle
• 4:03:24
  here is when the captain does die.
• 4:03:27
  If it feels like he's surrenders as well.
• 4:03:29
  So he just doesn't say the word I guess so, it doesn't count but
• 4:03:34
  he kind of surrendered to passing away.
• 4:03:35
  Yeah, I'm allowed Dr. Mentioned the planet of shrubs did?
• 4:03:40
  He does he talk about Earth during a soloist on?
• 4:03:43
  but other than that, I like the 60 second 63 second countdown
• 4:03:50
  thing. I like the mystery.
• 4:03:51
  I haven't rewatched Dr. Knew who as Much as it may be, I should.
• 4:04:00
  So I'm watching this go, man. This Gus guy, I want him to come
• 4:04:03
  back. This is if he's gonna set up
• 4:04:05
  little locked room kind of escape room Mysteries or
• 4:04:09
  something like that, like this. Oh, I'm in.
• 4:04:12
  And we got just told me and we never saw Gus again.
• 4:04:17
  I like Clara and the doctor chilling out on the beach at the
• 4:04:20
  end you ever been out on the town?
• 4:04:24
  And for some reason, you've managed to be out the whole
• 4:04:27
  night and you'll just sit on a park bench or something,
• 4:04:30
  absolutely exhausted. And just had enough.
• 4:04:32
  And then you've got your friend just pacing around, going just
• 4:04:35
  going very excited and then this happened, and this happened, you
• 4:04:38
  missed this, and you missed that, you missed this, and you
• 4:04:40
  missed that. The ending of that, just
• 4:04:42
  reminded me of something like that.
• 4:04:44
  We've just, you just crashing after a night out.
• 4:04:48
  He just want to go to bed. Then you got the guy you with.
• 4:04:51
  He's gonna take you home and it's obviously not gonna I
• 4:04:58
  really yeah, I like See, the BBC can do.
• 4:05:04
  That they've always had that rep, right?
• 4:05:05
  They can do old-timey stuff really well.
• 4:05:08
  So I don't mind when you see like a train in space or boats
• 4:05:12
  and ships and space and things like that because, you know,
• 4:05:15
  they could do the insides of those really.
• 4:05:16
  Well, they'll have the costumes down really just perfectly and
• 4:05:21
  it's probably not going to cost this much as maybe creating like
• 4:05:24
  weird sci-fi stuff from scratch. So I don't know.
• 4:05:28
  I like kind of this mix of old timey in you.
• 4:05:30
  It's very us as a society anyway because you know will on a
• 4:05:36
  return to Vibes or looks and errors of previous times and I'm
• 4:05:43
  one of red. Much of a books then someone
• 4:05:45
  offered me a chance to go on there.
• 4:05:46
  A space train Agatha Christie like kind of Adventure.
• 4:05:51
  I'm I'm there. So yeah, I'm putting this
• 4:05:54
  through, I love it. Oh, are you surrendering to the
• 4:05:58
  mummies charms? Can I go next?
• 4:06:00
  Okay, just what I want to give Paul the decider.
• 4:06:04
  Oh, I'm not putting this bridge here for the power.
• 4:06:11
  Um, I think it's a stylish as hell.
• 4:06:14
  As everybody says Fox is singing Queen.
• 4:06:16
  I think the Interiors are stylish.
• 4:06:18
  There's beautiful costumes on display and excellent.
• 4:06:21
  Grizzly monster. Some genuine suspense around his
• 4:06:24
  manifestation. The performance is our
• 4:06:27
  uniformly. Excellent.
• 4:06:28
  In this, however, I just do not understand this last trip in the
• 4:06:34
  Tardis. At the end of Kill the moon.
• 4:06:36
  She was fucking fuming. She was ready to burn a
• 4:06:41
  supernova in his face and now he's dressed up like a, flatbar
• 4:06:44
  going on a jolly Adventure. It's no sense whatsoever and
• 4:06:48
  you're right, can I sorry? Yeah it does make sense.
• 4:06:52
  It doesn't she says the end of Kill the moon.
• 4:06:57
  Danny says, you're not done with the doctor because you're still
• 4:07:00
  angry, tell him when you're calm and that's what this is.
• 4:07:04
  This is here going. Alright, we are done, we're
• 4:07:07
  gonna have one last trip because she doesn't know it's going to
• 4:07:09
  be an adventure. As far as she knows.
• 4:07:11
  It's a trip to you know it's a nice little farewell trip and
• 4:07:15
  then she's going home and then this whole ship comes on.
• 4:07:17
  So it does make sense it does. Well for me it just felt.
• 4:07:20
  It just felt like this, the show was taking us in One Direction
• 4:07:23
  and then it was taking us in another.
• 4:07:25
  We have this adventure, and at the end, she's like, all right.
• 4:07:28
  I'll keep going. It just feels so half-assed
• 4:07:32
  giving how powerful that ending of killed the moon.
• 4:07:35
  Was it lumps that ending? Frankly, for me, but also as
• 4:07:40
  well in the middle of the episode.
• 4:07:41
  We go into this sort of, we go away from the period into the
• 4:07:44
  scientific section, and I think things get a bit muddy there.
• 4:07:47
  I don't really understand who Gus is.
• 4:07:50
  I don't know why we're portraying this hideous monster
• 4:07:53
  as a as a victim. Why can't we ever have any
• 4:07:57
  fucking monsters in Moffat time that aren't Dopey romances or
• 4:08:02
  victims? And he was such a good monster
• 4:08:04
  as well and I'm like, oh just lost interest.
• 4:08:09
  Yeah, I think Capaldi's characterization like the
• 4:08:11
  doctors characterization is is iffy at best.
• 4:08:14
  I think he's a brilliant investigator but he's very nasty
• 4:08:17
  in places. I just don't understand why
• 4:08:20
  we're doing this at all. Um, yeah, so it doesn't really
• 4:08:24
  leave much of an impression is a very competently made doctor
• 4:08:28
  whose story and I think that's why people were raving about it
• 4:08:31
  because it just feels like a classic Doctor Who story set in
• 4:08:35
  a fun location with snazzy costumes.
• 4:08:38
  But really, what is this doing? This revolutionary nothing at
• 4:08:42
  all. But in terms of what it does
• 4:08:44
  with the character of the season, I think it damages it
• 4:08:48
  completely. So yeah, it is a bin from me.
• 4:08:51
  Wow. Oh The countdown on here.
• 4:08:57
  Yeah. Clock.
• 4:08:58
  I saw Frank Skinner at the Doctor Who exhibition he was
• 4:09:01
  looking for pajamas for his son and then I saw her Westminster
• 4:09:04
  Cathedral a couple years later and I played a weird affinity
• 4:09:06
  for him, we've had ever since so I love him in this.
• 4:09:10
  He's off the radio and now and Jason Manford still there, which
• 4:09:13
  there's no justice in the world whatsoever.
• 4:09:16
  This looks amazing. As John said.
• 4:09:19
  This is really looked at the film version of murder ionic
• 4:09:24
  Express. It's much better than the David
• 4:09:26
  Susie version of it, which is absolutely terrible.
• 4:09:29
  The doctor is utterly ruthless here.
• 4:09:31
  Working through those figures is a very different version of the
• 4:09:34
  doctor but then he turns around and takes on someone else's
• 4:09:37
  emotions in order to defeat this creature.
• 4:09:39
  But by surrendering. So, to John's Point as well,
• 4:09:41
  it's interesting. He has to take on someone else's
• 4:09:44
  emotions in a weird way that I don't really believe that
• 4:09:47
  machine can do that, but he's weird.
• 4:09:48
  He's all that this figure doesn't have the emotional range
• 4:09:52
  to actually do what he needs to do to convince the the mommy
• 4:09:57
  that he's dying. Oh, I've got over my 66 seconds.
• 4:09:59
  That's no good. And I think it's a brilliant
• 4:10:01
  version of and then there were none.
• 4:10:05
  That's it. Over the top.
• 4:10:10
  Joe they do, there is something Clara's thought about this.
• 4:10:13
  And, you know, that that Meandering story about the
• 4:10:16
  popcorn, the Capaldi's rightly dismissive of.
• 4:10:19
  I like how he's talking to early adopters.
• 4:10:22
  I think, as a really great opportunity for a lifelong fan
• 4:10:26
  to do his impressions of Tom Baker.
• 4:10:28
  It's really good day. Come up.
• 4:10:33
  Oh yeah. So There's the Peril.
• 4:10:37
  There isn't there, the moral dilemma about putting the woman,
• 4:10:40
  whose name, I've forgotten in Peril, which is 0.4 towards the
• 4:10:45
  moral dilemma at the end of death in heaven.
• 4:10:47
  What Danny calls, a tactical advantage and which I think is
• 4:10:50
  really interesting. You're so far too many positives
• 4:10:55
  here. I don't have been this.
• 4:10:57
  All right? Yeah, because you've done this
• 4:11:01
  to make your Flatline wins. Haven't, you know the game and
• 4:11:06
  oh I won't kill the moon to win. What did you talk about jealous
• 4:11:10
  of Danny? The doctors is listening on that
• 4:11:11
  phone call. It's really interesting changes
• 4:11:13
  that Dynamic and it sets them on that route for that.
• 4:11:16
  Really kind of deeply creepy romance.
• 4:11:19
  They have throughout series 9, where they're locked into, these
• 4:11:22
  are a couple of addicts. They might end up, living in a
• 4:11:25
  bed in class goes, she how Julie doctor has corrupted Clara at
• 4:11:33
  this point? He's made a like he doesn't like
• 4:11:35
  it but now she lies to stay on. And it's kind of sinister and
• 4:11:40
  creepy. And at the end of the beach, I
• 4:11:42
  like that he was watching today. It's struck me.
• 4:11:44
  Slightly. Is that what you'd like me to
• 4:11:46
  be? Is that what you like me to
• 4:11:47
  think? And it's kind of like a weird.
• 4:11:51
  Sex thing going on there. That I'll play that part for
• 4:11:55
  you. So I mean it was an instant top
• 4:11:57
  10 classic for me, but I'm with you Joe.
• 4:11:58
  It's been it. Let's see where we go.
• 4:12:02
  There is, there is no Joel incandescent.
• 4:12:08
  The audience will be listening to this.
• 4:12:09
  Thank you, Paul. I think it was me and Paul
• 4:12:13
  today. What's happening?
• 4:12:16
  I was gonna be so positive. I love that line, but it's just
• 4:12:22
  the bar. So somehow in four and a half
• 4:12:27
  hours just discussing five episodes, we've reached the
• 4:12:32
  conclusion that just kill the moon and Flatline is that right?
• 4:12:38
  Okay, so we've lost mummy on the urine Express even in the forest
• 4:12:51
  of the night and Dark Water death in heaven.
• 4:12:54
  Although there was a huge range of opinions on all of those
• 4:12:59
  stories. So, thank you very much because
• 4:13:01
  I think Maybe we knew this was going to kind of go this way a
• 4:13:04
  little bit. There was some really
• 4:13:06
  interesting takes on those stories however camp music and
• 4:13:11
  no need for a randomizer. Let's go, right?
• 4:13:16
  so, Gentlemen. Kill the moon or Flatline and
• 4:13:22
  please justify yourselves. Let's go to Json.
• 4:13:29
  Well after my lengthy rancid crap science and kill them and I
• 4:13:33
  can hardly put that through, can I?
• 4:13:35
  It was never going to be killed the moon for me is definitely
• 4:13:38
  flat line that is One of the best Doctor, Who stories in this
• 4:13:44
  series, probably in the Capaldi here.
• 4:13:47
  Ah, possibly, even the whole Moffat ERA.
• 4:13:49
  This is Flatline, is a superb story, kill.
• 4:13:53
  The Moon is not Absolutely. Well, you know, my bending the
• 4:14:04
  other one. So yeah, Flatline.
• 4:14:07
  It's amazing. It's imaginative.
• 4:14:11
  I like, actually like Clara in this, which is a pretty strong
• 4:14:16
  feet like I could Being the doctor.
• 4:14:19
  I like the the 2DS 2D imagery turning trying to turn 3D and
• 4:14:24
  how it's scratchy and stuff. The freaking train how it kind
• 4:14:27
  of like, instead of exploding exploding and explodes kind of
• 4:14:30
  into the wall or something. It's just been trained.
• 4:14:34
  Mural Ah I love it. It's not only an episode that I
• 4:14:38
  love what it's box, my imagination and makes me come up
• 4:14:44
  with story ideas, that's other people's job.
• 4:14:45
  So yeah, it's Flatline for me. Oh, you may think everyone this
• 4:14:51
  thing that, you know, the direction of this phone is
• 4:14:53
  going. However, we have had insane
• 4:14:55
  results before. it has, as I said, one of my favorite
• 4:15:07
  sporting characters, all of Doctor Who He has brilliant
• 4:15:12
  Concepts and monster is gorgeous.
• 4:15:14
  It's, you know, it's taking to place it and obviously, the, the
• 4:15:20
  animals family thing I have The Siege Tower this problem as you
• 4:15:23
  saw, Kill the Moon is messy. It gets it goes to all sorts of
• 4:15:31
  strange places to get to that powerful moment where it's going
• 4:15:34
  to tap, to push doctor in some way, are going to be hasn't gone
• 4:15:37
  before. So, it's a case of kind of, do I
• 4:15:40
  like it more conventional in, in that kind of Doctor Who format?
• 4:15:44
  It's still, it's got Flat line is. and unconventional ideas in
• 4:15:51
  a Trad format, and I love it. But kill the Moon is a complete
• 4:15:58
  mess, which gets some of the butt.
• 4:16:00
  It's got such that, that powerful seen, it gets to where
• 4:16:05
  it's going to ace. Is that?
• 4:16:06
  So I'm going to go kill the Moon.
• 4:16:10
  I know you because like that good got a whole episode gets
• 4:16:15
  through all the strength of a two-minute scene at the end.
• 4:16:17
  Thank you Jason because you've just Explained, why I am.
• 4:16:22
  So, going to be putting through Killzone because no, no, wait,
• 4:16:26
  wait, you just wanna get at me because I'm picking at the size.
• 4:16:29
  You just brief now, come along children.
• 4:16:37
  The reason I am chasing killing the movie is, I was as full of
• 4:16:41
  praise for it, as I was for Flatline, but I genuinely
• 4:16:45
  genuinely think that scene at the end of killer moon is the
• 4:16:49
  best performers piece in new possibly indoor.
• 4:16:54
  And, you know me, I will not throw too much.
• 4:16:57
  Praise at Jenna Coleman as good as she is electrical Flatline is
• 4:17:05
  brilliant. Flatline dude, genuinely made me
• 4:17:07
  sit up and pay attention to Doctor Who again?
• 4:17:13
  So, I was unfortunate position to repeating the best episode,
• 4:17:28
  not the best sodding seen good. Perfect, two minutes.
• 4:17:33
  Oh, we have four the music player bit.
• 4:17:44
  I'm being sensible. Yeah.
• 4:17:48
  But it's out of our misery and tell us where just yeah.
• 4:17:53
  You it's too apiece. Okay, so do I have the right?
• 4:18:02
  His wife coming to me, she's asleep on the city. yeah, and I
• 4:18:20
  D. Should we did it in the mine
• 4:18:22
  Robert? We did it in 1968, it was really
• 4:18:25
  scary then you know, Frazier, this fucking Placebo.
• 4:18:28
  That's the first time I saw one night as well.
• 4:18:31
  Second he sworn in the comments. That's the quotation.
• 4:18:34
  That doesn't go like a track academic.
• 4:18:37
  Yeah, you know what is good and all that killed me.
• 4:18:42
  And everyone's going to go Flatline.
• 4:18:46
  So let's let's be unconvention, John's right?
• 4:18:49
  The two conventional stories are the best in this half of the
• 4:18:53
  season so I'm saying kill the moon, oh get back, get back in
• 4:18:59
  your bloody Tardis. Alright, piss off.
• 4:19:02
  Okay. Suddenly I know how Tobe hey
• 4:19:04
  Duke feels. Yeah, I'm sympathizing heavily
• 4:19:07
  with Toby Ado. Hey, this point, we're supposed
• 4:19:09
  to be picking the best episode, not being contrary or anything
• 4:19:12
  like pick the best Bloody episodes finished last this like
• 4:19:18
  well yeah, I mean that was awesome man.
• 4:19:21
  This wasn't it. Although someone did say
• 4:19:23
  something to me just to die on a call.
• 4:19:25
  And I think killing the moon, we didn't from this selection of
• 4:19:30
  episode, it does count the in this whole sort of strictly
• 4:19:33
  format. Yeah, it's absolutely the
• 4:19:35
  journey. I'm not the destination
• 4:19:37
  accounts, right? Yeah.
• 4:19:40
  And, you know, killed the moon now us, to go up against listen,
• 4:19:45
  that won the first half of the theories, kill the moon.
• 4:19:48
  Oh yeah, okay, I would even pick kill the Moon Over listen, to be
• 4:19:53
  honest. So there we go.
• 4:19:54
  Oh, I didn't mean right now that, you know, but I'm just
• 4:19:57
  saying, you know. Yeah, I'm just, I would do that.
• 4:20:00
  I would like, Listen to John, but there we go.
• 4:20:04
  See this is like the, in this whole episode is like the
• 4:20:07
  inverse of kill the moon. We've had a fantastic run up to
• 4:20:10
  an absolutely bloody awful conclusion.
• 4:20:12
  Now, we've got baby. Yeah, we could possibly do, and
• 4:20:19
  that is a bought the episode. Oh, we taste the lights on.
• 4:20:23
  We kept the lights. And as I said there was a range
• 4:20:30
  of superbly intelligent. You're right of Sighs and
• 4:20:34
  killed. Oh, You're defensive in the
• 4:20:39
  forest of the night. Well, I've never heard such
• 4:20:42
  nonsense. I mean, sorry, this is what I
• 4:20:45
  love about this is what I love about this podcast and being on
• 4:20:48
  it. Yeah.
• 4:20:48
  Okay. I think the end of this episode,
• 4:20:50
  the conclusion that we've just reached his absolutely utterly
• 4:20:53
  the wrong one, but the fact that everyone has got such different
• 4:20:57
  opinions about the episodes, people like things, people like
• 4:21:00
  things that other people think. The same thing is a reason for
• 4:21:03
  binning something. It's as you say, it's the, it's
• 4:21:06
  the journey. It's the fun of these and I hope
• 4:21:08
  everyone listening is, as still listening and hasn't Switched
• 4:21:11
  Off you. Or if you hate be You gotta get
• 4:21:16
  caught? Yeah, yes.
• 4:21:17
  I just strictly you're not baby. Oh, hello.
• 4:21:20
  Back to you. To finish us off.
• 4:21:23
  Oh, I get to finish everything off.
• 4:21:26
  Yeah. All right.
• 4:21:27
  Well what was oh you know, it's uh, kill all right.
• 4:21:37
  He broke him as well. I melted.
• 4:21:41
  It's also I think about 32 degrees right here in the
• 4:21:45
  garage, so yes. All right.
• 4:21:47
  So I guess at the end, it's where can we find people that
• 4:21:52
  Want to hear people who praise kill the moon even more.
• 4:21:55
  Where can we find? Find you on this socials and all
• 4:22:00
  that kind of stuff. I'm on Blue Sky because I'm a
• 4:22:03
  century and I left elon's Hillside.
• 4:22:06
  So here Jake, Queen dot Beast, guy social, I've got a little
• 4:22:11
  watch YouTube channel called wins mine dump and because I've
• 4:22:14
  got a midlife crisis, but it's work.
• 4:22:15
  I'm on tiktok as well. Very Tails.
• 4:22:19
  If you want to hear me reading out really Bleak, Grimm, fairy
• 4:22:22
  tales and most of the children die, get yourself on the
• 4:22:25
  tiktoks. Joe, you're firstly, if you'd
• 4:22:30
  have written in the forest of the night, it would have been a
• 4:22:32
  banger. Adjacent.
• 4:22:36
  I I too am on Blue Sky at Jason jtt.
• 4:22:39
  I'm still loitering around on Twitter, Jason underscore jtt,
• 4:22:46
  which is where most of my my actors in threads, which seemed
• 4:22:50
  to have gained some traction currently sitting.
• 4:22:53
  I'm working on another one which will debut on Blue Sky.
• 4:22:55
  So if you've enjoyed them on Twitter, get across the blue
• 4:22:57
  sky. Very much so Jason.
• 4:23:01
  This, you can hear me on several podcasts.
• 4:23:05
  Obviously, hamsters, various hamsters, which we, we're part
• 4:23:09
  way through one. At the moment, Joe, we've got a
• 4:23:11
  finish up at some point. I done a couple of track one
• 4:23:16
  field reports and I had my own podcast as well robots in your
• 4:23:21
  eyes which is still available. I am potentially doing the third
• 4:23:25
  block but I have not found the time or the energy to actually
• 4:23:28
  record any of it yet. So but that covers for those who
• 4:23:32
  are not familiar with it, that covers classic 80s cartoon
• 4:23:36
  series such as Transformers. What else have we done?
• 4:23:41
  We did one go Bots. We Defenders of the earth Danger
• 4:23:44
  Mouse almost well go and listen to episode 50 of robots in your
• 4:23:51
  eyes which is Transformers the movie and yeah, see what we made
• 4:23:56
  of it so well just He was his last role.
• 4:24:00
  A giant planet-eating mechanical transforming planetoid.
• 4:24:03
  Yes, what a way to go, but that's just, well, he played a
• 4:24:08
  killer robot, too. John, um, I'm usually to be
• 4:24:14
  found on Strangers in space and I talked to some really nice
• 4:24:20
  gentleman, about Doctor Who books, occasionally on the house
• 4:24:23
  to book club. I don't know you're talking
• 4:24:26
  about. Oh yeah, and John arnhold on
• 4:24:33
  please guy. And I've still got Vape presence
• 4:24:35
  on Twitter but it's mostly Blue Sky.
• 4:24:38
  Yeah, my Twitter presence is pretty non-existent, it's just
• 4:24:43
  kind of retweets and things that now, I mean a group chat for the
• 4:24:46
  book club and that's that's about it, but he can find me
• 4:24:49
  over there, grumpy two at grumpy two.
• 4:24:51
  Ebony, blue sky is no more now and just in case on the off
• 4:24:56
  chance that anyone listening to this is also a fan of Japanese
• 4:25:00
  professional wrestling for the last six years, I have hosted a
• 4:25:04
  New Japan Pro Wrestling podcast called the nether open podcasts.
• 4:25:08
  So you can hear my voice there too.
• 4:25:11
  But I'm not talking about Doctor Who so you might find it either,
• 4:25:15
  just dry and an interesting but never know.
• 4:25:20
  So yeah, that's where you can reach me as well and I guess.
• 4:25:23
  Do we have to ask Jeremy? We can reach him.
• 4:25:25
  I mean, no not listen to this bollocks know you realize I wash
• 4:25:31
  your results, talking, you know, it's just one of us free Pricks
• 4:25:34
  that chose kill the moon and relented or seen sense.
• 4:25:37
  This would have gone entirely the other way.
• 4:25:39
  It's not like any one of us can be blamed.
• 4:25:41
  It just would have taken one person for this to go the other
• 4:25:44
  way. Yeah.
• 4:25:45
  But I'm blaming you anyway, Joe Well, fellas.
• 4:25:54
  There's I usually try get everybody to do this at the same
• 4:25:58
  time. It is now 22. 1 in the morning.
• 4:26:01
  Oh Me. Oh, if we can somehow finishing
• 4:26:06
  the usual way of keep listening through two one, Hi.