Latest / The Action Catalyst / REMASTERED: Operating Out of Greatness, with Lolly Daskal (Leadership, Performance, Executive, Confidence)

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REMASTERED: Operating Out of Greatness, with Lolly Daskal (Leadership, Performance, Executive, Confidence) · The Action Catalyst

0:35
Host: Lolly Daskal, she's an amazing woman. First of all, she
0:40
is one of the most popular writers for Inc, and she has
0:43
over 1.2 million Twitter followers. It's probably more
0:46
than that even by now. She's written for HBr, Fast Company,
0:50
Huffington Post Psychology Today. And she writes almost
0:54
exclusively pretty much exclusively on leadership, and
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she is the CEO of Lead From Within. And her first book, it's
1:04
called The Leadership Gap: What Gets Between You and Your
1:08
Greatness. She's here with me today by special invite. So
1:11
Lolly, welcome to the show.
1:13
Lolly Daskal: I have been looking forward to this. And
1:15
thank you for inviting me. I'm looking forward to our
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conversation.
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Host: Yeah, well, and I know you've had some pretty big
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honors, I mean, being in the top 50 leadership and management
1:25
expert by Inc. I saw it one point that Huffington Post
1:29
called you the most inspiring woman in the world, which is
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pretty cool. So I was curious about who inspires you.
1:36
Lolly Daskal: So I've been inspired by three particular
1:39
people. And guess what never met them. The first one is Viktor
1:45
Frankl. I read his book, The Man's Search for Meaning. And it
1:49
changed my life. I read another book by Joseph Campbell. And it
1:54
changed my life. I read a book by Carl Gustav Jung, and it
1:58
changed my life. Now these three mentors have shaped who I am,
2:03
and what I do in the world, how I coach how I do business
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consulting. And actually, because of them, I've taken
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their three teachings and implemented into, you know, the
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service that I do for others. And this was what inspired my
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system. And now I write about my system in the leadership gap.
2:22
Host: In terms of the leadership gap, what would you say is
2:25
different or new, or what's sort of the unique slant or the angle
2:30
or the what's the what is the part that forwards the thinking
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of what's been written already on leadership?
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Lolly Daskal: So there are two parts very particular parts,
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what makes this book different number one is most of you don't
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know, maybe none of you know, but I read a book a day, and I
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read about leadership, and I read about business, and most of
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the books will talk to you about how most of the books will tell
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you when, and where. And recently, we had a book will
2:55
tell you even why. And what I found is, especially in
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philosophy, most of the writings about how to take us to
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greatness and how to succeed, talks about who you are being.
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And so I decided that I was going to write my book about who
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you are being while you are living and while you are living.
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So that's one difference. Number two is is that I have found that
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there are also books about archetypes and personas and
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traits and skills about leadership. Or what I haven't
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found anywhere in a leadership book or in a business book, that
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will teach you that you're very seen strengths can have a
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weakness, and instead of saying, let's not concentrate on the
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weakness, I teach you how to leverage that weakness. I call
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those weaknesses, the gaps. And so this book teaches you that
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you are a whole person in order to succeed in order to stand in
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your greatness in order to do the things you want to do in the
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world. You need to own all of who you are, in order to be a
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whole person. And that's what this book is about. It teaches
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you that you have both a light in the dark, the shadows and the
4:02
greatness. And once you learn how to leverage it and own it,
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and you take responsibility for it, you can get what you want in
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life.
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Host: So I want to come back to that one here in a second. But
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what are some of the things in terms of a leader and who they
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are and how they are living? What are some of those kind of
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key things you think who you should be being when you're
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being a great leader?
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Lolly Daskal: Great question. I'm so happy you asked that. But
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one of the things that I want to talk about is let's go back a
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little deeper than that before I answer that question, great
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leaders in order for them to change the world around them,
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right? They that's what we call them great leaders, they must
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start by changing from within. That's where it starts. I think
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that great leaders have the ability to rethink, and I'm
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using that word in particular because we think is an acronym,
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the seven archetypes of my book because it's all about the WHO
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YOU JUST and who you need to be. And because they're able to
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rethink util lies that system, there are constantly learning,
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changing and growing as leaders. So Vaughn is the secret sauce,
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the ability to rethink because this is what it is, in my system
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the rethink system, you can be. So take seven archetypes, right.
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And if you take the first archetype, you can either stand
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in your greatness, or you can lead from your gaps. My
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archetypes are different. Because it's situational, we
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don't lean into one part of who we are, we lean into all parts
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of who we are. And so if you learn the rethink system and the
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seven archetypes, let's start with the first one. And people
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will recognize themselves in the first one. So the first one is
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the rebel in the reefing system. It's someone who wants to make
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an impact on the world, but someone who wants to do
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something significant, they don't want to follow the status
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quo. In order to make that happen, they have to have the
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characteristic of having confidence. Now, when I talk
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about confidence, I'm not talking about standing in front
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of the mirror and saying, I'm the best, I'm the greatest. This
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is not about ego. This is not even about affirmations. When I
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talk about confidence, I'm talking about capabilities plus
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competence, equal confidence. Confidence, is believing you're
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able, right, we believe we're able, but competence is knowing
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your angle. And that is a game changing. When you know you're
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able to do something you feel confident. But every leader,
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every person that isn't a rebel, who has confidence, there is
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what we call a gap. And the gap is of someone who feels like an
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imposter who has self doubt. It's the person that wants to do
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amazing things, who wants to take themselves to the next
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level. But there were six negative messages in their mind
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that say, I don't deserve both. I'm not the smartest if they
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only knew, maybe I don't, you know, I want to do that. But I
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didn't know how to do that. And I'll never learn how to do that
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I'm too scared. It's often these little things that we say to
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ourselves, that keeps us from standing in our greatness. And
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so when you find that this happens to us, we have the
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choice in the moment to say, Where do I stand in my
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greatness? Or will I allow my gaps to lead? And that's why
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this is so important to know this system, because it's a game
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changer. When in the moment, you can ask yourself the question,
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because sometimes if you lead from being an imposter and
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having self doubt, you don't do the things you want to do in
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life. It's the rebel that actually experiences the
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imposter. Now, this system created after coaching 1000s and
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1000s of people every time I talked about confidence, this
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whole thing about self doubt and feeling like an imposter kept
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emerging and did happen with the same with all the other
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archetypes. Every time I mentioned a certain
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characteristic that they needed to be as great leaders, he would
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say what if only I didn't feel self doubt, if only I didn't
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have this gap that own and that's how the system emerged.
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It was from the feedback of those that I coached and those
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that I was working with, that they kept telling me about what
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they were struggling with. In my research, I have found that
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99.9% high achieving individuals suffer from the imposter
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syndrome. So that's the are so what about the E. So the next
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one in the rethink is the Explorer. The Explorer is
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someone who wants to go into uncharted waters, who wants to
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do something different. But in order to be able to do that they
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need to be fueled by intuition. Because intuition and science
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talks about allowing things to flow. In order to allow things
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to flow, you have to let go of something in order to let
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something new come in. But for every single explorer who uses
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their intuition, there is a gap of the exploiter who manipulates
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and you might be sending Wally that's a very harsh shadow.
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That's very harsh GAAP, but I'd like to explain how it plays
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out. And see when you use your intuition, you let go of
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control. And people have a hard time letting go of control. If
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you need to control everything you need to have it your way and
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only your way. You might not realize it but you might be
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exploiting people or weaknesses or just to get your way you
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might manipulate someone nobody wants to call themselves an
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exploiter or a manipulator. But if people are honest with
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themselves, when they need to have control, they might stand
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in this gap. And this gap can end up costing partnerships,
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relationships and business and especially leadership. So we
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have to be very mindful to see can we learn to let go of
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control and allow ourselves to let things come in? Or do we
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need to control things and end up maybe sounding like an
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exploiter for manipulates so that's a very important
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archetype to be aware of. Be excited All leaders are ones
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that need to manipulate in order to get what they want. But the
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Explorer doesn't do that in order to get what they want.
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They let go of what they think they need to have, and allow
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what they want to come in. Let me just explain something about
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intuition that I want to share. I have found over the years,
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that intuition I know people talk about intuition as being
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like a sixth sense, it's about your gut feeling. But what we
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found about intuition is is that in our brains, we have like
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chips in our brains, where we store nemaline, your own store
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experiences. And intuition means that all those chips are coming
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together when we need an answer. And then all the sudden, we're
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saying, Wow, that makes sense. And it's not because all of a
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sudden, we got it out of the thin air. No, it's all of the
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experiences and all the challenges and all the habits
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and all the actions that we've taken is in our mind, and when
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we need an answer, the computer in our brain goes through all
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the chips and says do it this way. Anybody ever notices that?
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When you have intuition? It's usually five words or less, it
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sounds like follow it to it. Now, the moment you add, because
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or thick the word, it's not your intuition, it stops being
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intuition. So for me, I know when someone is really speaking
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from intuition is when it's short, a short sentence, and
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they don't use the word because.
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Host: If you realize that you are in need of too much control,
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how do you get yourself to come to that place of letting go?
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Lolly Daskal: Great question. I love that question. The thing
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about it is, it's almost like when you have a bad habit, like
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how do you break a bad habit? Right, you have to introduce
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something new, that you normally wouldn't try. So for a leader,
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who's in needs control, I've seen this hundreds of times,
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I've seen this in organizations where a leader is always telling
12:02
people what to do. My coaching is Have you tried maybe
12:06
listening instead, where leader always thinks they know the
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answer. And they're always like, this is how it needs to be, I
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suggest to a leader, maybe saying out loud, I don't know,
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can you teach me. So it's kind of opening up the path for
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trying something new, in order to see if you get the same
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return, right? Because a leader that's always constantly when
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I've seen this exploiting and manipulating employees to numb
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out after a while, they stopped working as hard as they should.
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And they tune them out. And most likely, they're looking for
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other jobs. Because these days people don't you know, in my
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days, people stay 25 years, 30 days in a job these days. If you
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have a boss, if you have a leader who's constantly
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manipulating and exploiting you, you're leaving that job. And so
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the greatest leaders, as I said earlier, have the ability to
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rethink right? To go into find out which kind of archetype they
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are. And they're open to learning and growing and
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changing. That's how you let go of control. nellen Say something
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not everybody wants to do that. The knee has to come within the
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leader, the leader has to be able to recognize that the need
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for control is not getting them the results that they want. And
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that's when a leader says can you tweak it? Can you change it?
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How can I leverage this? What do I need to do?
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Host: So basically, the leader has to take the first step of
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admitting, hey, there's a there's a shadow here or there's
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a darkness that I have to sort of work through?
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Lolly Daskal: Or a leader will never say that out loud. A
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leader will say to me more. You know what, I'm not making the
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kind of revenue I want. Our business is losing money. Pete
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my best people are leaving the top performers are not staying.
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What's usually what a leader will come to me and say, it is
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only then then I asked them, What responsibility do you play
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in that? Most of them will say nothing, it's not my fault. And
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then I say leadership starts going work, boom, it starts with
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you, you need to set the example. Now let's find out are
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you standing in your greatness or your gaps in which one of
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these gaps is costing you in the kind of business that you really
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want?
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Host: Does every person have these gaps?
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Lolly Daskal: So we have all of these within us. These are the
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patterns that I've seen over three decades of working with
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leaders around the world. So we have all of them. Do we tend to
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lean towards one or another? We tend to but these archetypes are
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not about like Myers Briggs or like Strength Finders or the
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discs. These archetypes are situational. So if you're having
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a meeting with someone, the archetype of the truth teller,
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or the archetype of the deceiver, you know comes up and
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you could ask yourself, will I be the truth teller in this me
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Meanwhile, I tell them the whole truth that maybe things aren't
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going okay? Or will I tell them half lies, and they'll catch on
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that part parts of me are deceiving them, which will
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create suspicion. Or you could be in, you know, you could have
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a conversation with someone, and maybe you need to be the hero
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instead of the bystander. So they're more situational than
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they are, okay? I'm only one archetype. And that's, that's
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what I lean into.
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Host: So is that the, that's the third, the third archetype is
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the truth teller.
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Lolly Daskal: The third archetype is the truth teller.
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And I think for people that are running businesses and want to
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take themselves to the next level, is very important to tell
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the truth and to be a truth teller. I'm sure we have
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recognize the truth tellers in our lives, because it's almost
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like they have a duty to always tell us the truth. They always
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love to speak with candor. But as we know that a truth teller
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has a gap, when they're scared to tell you the truth. They tend
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to tell you hoc truths, and they become deceivers because they
16:00
withholding information. And when people withhold
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information, people become very suspicious, they become very
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paranoid. We know that when you don't tell the whole truth,
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people are busy making up stories, oh, I know what's
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really going on. And then it gets out of control. So we have
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to be very mindful, are we going to tell people the whole truth
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and tell them the bad news that we need to tell them and maybe
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ask them to be part of the solution, or will be end up
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deceiving them and maybe cause suspicion among our teams and
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our businesses? And it ends up costing us on what we really
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want to create.
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Host: Okay, so what's the H?
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Lolly Daskal: H is the hero. And I believe that within each of
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us, there is a hero, because what is the hero, the hero is
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someone who feels fearful, right? Who's scared, who's
16:47
frightened, but they're courageous. Anyway, as we know,
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there's a great book that says, feel the fear and do it anyway.
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So that's the hero. But for every hero that exists, there is
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a gap. And the gap is of the bystander, who is fearful. When
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you're a bystander, you see something, but you do nothing.
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You hear something, and you say nothing. How many times in our
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lives? And have we been been standards? How many times in our
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lives? Could could we have said something or done something and
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we don't do it? So question that I asked everyone is then when
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they need to do the hero? Are they courageous? Or are they
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allowing their fear to lead them? And then they end up being
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the bystander in their lives?
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Host: OK, so what's after hero? What's the I?
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Lolly Daskal: I is the Inventor. It's about their craft, how do
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they create the craft? What do they do with their craft? They
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do it with integrity, that means that everything that they do
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they do with excellence. That means that if you expect
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something from them, it's going to be quality, then inventor has
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a bar, and the gap is of a destroyer, who's corrupt? And
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you might be saying, Oh, that's very harsh. But I want to
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explain what I mean. But a mean by man, is it someone that says,
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let's do this faster? Let's do this cheaper, let's cut corners,
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nobody will ever know. And the truth is, it does come out, you
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end up paying a price, and we come across as a destroyer who
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is pull up. So you will always have a choice to ask yourself if
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I am going to do anything in the world. Will I do it from
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integrity? Or will I do it from the parts of being corrupt? Or
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will I do it on the parts of being a destroyer? And we don't
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want that. But when we are stressed out when we are
18:36
challenged, we tend to live in our gaps. We want to just do
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things to get them done. People end up costing us in our success
18:44
and in our greatness. It's very important to always be mindful
18:47
at everything that you do to ask yourself the greatness or the
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gaps.
18:52
Host: Well, that is five of them, my friends, which if you
18:55
want the other two, the last two, you're gonna have to buy
18:58
the book because we are out of time. The leadership gap is the
19:02
name of the book. Lolly I do have one other question for you.
19:05
Before we do that, where should people go if they want to
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connect with you and learn more?
19:10
Lolly Daskal: So as of now, theleadershipgapbook.com And you
19:14
can always find me at lollydaskal.com. And I really
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like to connect people so you can find me on Twitter at Lolly
19:24
Daskal blocked me tweet me retweet me and I will do the same.
19:29
Host: So my last thing for you Lolly is I mean you you
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literally write like 100 articles a month. You're reading
19:34
a book a day you got this book coming out. If I'm listening for
19:38
the first time, what is the first action that you would
19:41
encourage people to take if they're realizing I haven't been
19:45
leading from a place of greatness?
19:48
Lolly Daskal: Well, the first thing I would like to share with
19:51
people that if you are truly looking for the some of your
19:55
greatness, stop asking ourselves, what do I want to do?
19:59
And instead we should ask ourselves, who do I want to be?
20:02
That's number one. Greatness is not only a destiny that is only
20:07
granted for you, but it's a choice that's available to
20:10
everyone. And this is what I need. A choice is action that we
20:15
do. It's a decision that we make. And if we know greatness
20:18
is within us, then in every given moment, when we are
20:22
challenged, when we have difficulty when we have stress,
20:26
or how we show up, we can always be mindful to ask ourselves, are
20:30
we standing in our greatness? Or are we leading from our gaps?
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Host: Lolly, thank you for your continuous stream of inspiration
20:39
and education and gosh, we just wish you the best of luck and
20:42
good good things for you in the leadership gap.
20:48
Lolly Daskal: Amen.