Latest / Drawn of History / Sen. Bernie Sanders _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _524(M4A_128K)

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Sen. Bernie Sanders _ This Past Weekend w_ Theo Von _524(M4A_128K) · Drawn of History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I have some new tour dates I want to tell
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: you about. We will be in Lafayette, Louisiana, Thanksgiving weekend
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: on November 29 at the Cajun Dome, baby, down there
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: in Poirier country. And we will also be in Belmont,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Texas on November 30 at Doggett Ford Park Arena. Get
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: your tickets early starting Tuesday, August 13th at 10 a.m.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: local time with pre-sale code RATKINGS. General on sale begins Wednesday,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: August 14th at 10 a.m.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: Local time.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: We will also be in Las Vegas, Nevada at the
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: LSU-USC opening weekend of football, August 30th and 31st. Bend, Oregon. Spokane. Washington, Portland, Oregon. Vancouver, B.C.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: in the Canada area. Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, North Little Rock, Springfield, Missouri,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Kansas City, Missouri, Sioux Falls, South Dakota, La Crosse, Wisconsin,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Green Bay, Wisconsin, and Moline, Illinois. You can get all
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: your tickets at theovon.com slash T-O-U-R. And thank you so
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: much for supporting live comedy and our show. Today's episode
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: was filmed at the Venetian Soda and Cocktail Lounge in Burlington, Vermont.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: And we want to thank them for hosting us and
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: allowing us in their beautiful space. And our guest, he's
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: a United States senator from Vermont. He's an independent, though
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: he's been friendly with the Democratic Party over the years.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: He's been a congressman, a senator, a presidential candidate, and
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: he's one of the biggest lightning rods in American history.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: At the very end of the interview, we did experience
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: some difficulties with our microphones, so we apologize for the
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: change in sound there. We're grateful to welcome today's guest,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Senator Bernie Sanders.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: Shine that light on me I'll sit and tell you my.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Story So do you travel the country doing these things?
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, mostly I travel doing a stand-up comedy, but about
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: six years ago I started doing podcasting just in my
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: kitchen at home. And mostly it was just talking about, like,
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: I've been in recovery for years, so mostly just talking
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: about that kind of stuff. Alcohol or alcohol?
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Alcohol and drugs and intimacy disorders. So a lot of
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And then, um, then we started
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: having guests after about two years and, um, went on
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: Joe Rogan a few times and that helped boost the steam,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: you know? And, um, yeah, it's been surprising since then,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: you know, congratulations. Thanks. It's made me grow up some,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: which is a blessing and a curse, you know, but yeah,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: and I just went to the grateful dad the other
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: day with my brother. So Pretty cool. You ever see
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: the Grateful Dead?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: No.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: You remember, what was the first concert you ever went to?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: A name you probably wouldn't know. You ever hear of
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Pete Seeger? I've heard of Bob Seeger. Yeah, I think
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: that there's some that we love. I was kind of
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: into folk music more than that.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Billy Strings, have you heard of him?
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's awesome. He's one of my favorites. Pete Seeger,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: that's him right there?
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: That's, God, that was fast. Yeah. Yeah, he's an interesting guy.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: And there's another guy who died a long time ago.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know his name. Woody Guthrie,
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: is that name?
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Woody Guthrie, I've heard of him, yeah.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and actually his granddaughter helped me out during my campaigns.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: He wrote a lot during the Great Depression. So he
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: went around the hobo camps, talked to poor people, you know?
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: And he wrote songs. Every other song, this land is
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: your land, this... That's his song.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, wow. I didn't even think somebody wrote that.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: No, he was a great songwriter and a great singer.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Woody Guthrie.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: Woody Guthrie.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have to tap into some of his stuff. Yeah,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: my brother and I went. You have a brother? You
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: have a brother. I have an older brother, yeah. You
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: guys ever go to a concert together?
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: No, I don't think we do. He lives in Oxford, England.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fancy over there.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Well, have you ever been to England?
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: And they have this old university called Oxford University, which
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: is one of the great universities in the world. Yeah.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I stayed in a house, God, like it was 1400
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: to 1300. Who the hell knows? I mean, really?
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: It goes way, way back.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. You got to bring your own plumbing, I'm sure.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Well, they've advanced a little bit.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Great to be with you. I really appreciate it. Whenever
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: you started in politics, I'm sure that there was a
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: real idea of one person can really affect change, right?
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Do you think that that's still possible today with a
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: lot of the lobbies and stuff that they have that
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: goes on?
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the points I think everybody
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: knows is you have a government dominated by big money interests, right?
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: That's no great secret. So you have these billionaires now
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: in their super PACs. If you're a billionaire, you can
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: contribute hundreds of millions of dollars to elect people, to
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: feed people. If you're a large corporation or you represent
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the pharmaceutical industry, do you know how many lobbyists there
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: are in Washington, D.C., representing the big drug companies? Take
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: a wild and crazy guess. 2,000.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: You got it.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty good guess.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: About 1,800.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: So there are 100 members of the Senate and 435
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: members of the House. Got it? 535. And you got 1,800 lobbyists,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: well-paid former leaders of the Democratic Party, leaders of the
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Republican Party. They're there to say, hey, Congress, do everything
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: you can to make sure we make as much money
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: as possible. And who gives a damn whether people can
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: afford the prescription drugs they need? So that's power.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: So you have a whole other drug government almost going on.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: That's even bigger than our own government.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: Well, we could define what we mean by bigger.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: That's fair.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: But if you look at Wall Street, the power of
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: Wall Street, the drug companies, the insurance companies, the fossil
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: fuel industry, you have enormous wealth, enormous power. And if
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: your question is, is it government that tells them what
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: to do or they tell what the government to do?
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: More the latter. They tell the government what to do.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Very powerful.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Does it feel like that's changed over your time in politics,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: or has it always been that way?
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I think to some degree, you know, money talks, right?
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: No great secret. That's always been the case. It's worse now,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: and I'll tell you why. As a result of this
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: Citizens United Supreme Court decision, you familiar with that? The
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: people brought action. Billionaires really brought action. They said, hey,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: it's undemocratic. You're taking away my freedom of speech, right?
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: I got a First Amendment right. We're on TV now,
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: you could say whatever you want to say, and I'm
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a billionaire, and I want to spend unlimited sums of
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: money to defeat this candidate or support this candidate, and
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: you have laws on the books now which restrict my
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: freedom to buy the election. You understand what I'm saying?
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: 100%.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: And the Supreme Court said, well, guys, you're right. You're billionaires.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: You should be able to spend as much money as
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: you want to buy elections. And that's what you have.
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: So right now, this is literally the truth. You have
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: super PACs where billionaires can put Unlimited amounts of money,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to defeat people
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: they don't like or to support people they do like.
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  Speaker 2: That's power. And that is a corruption of what democracy
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: is supposed to be. Look, you and I can disagree
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: on an issue, all right? 10 people. We argue it out.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: We vote. I get the majority. You get the majority.
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  Speaker 2: Somebody wins. Somebody loses. I don't think billionaires should be
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: able to buy elections.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: And I think most people think that. Most people are like,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: why are corporations or companies allowed to give money to
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: candidates and influence elections, right? Almost every person I know
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: says that that should be no. Whose responsibility is it
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: to make sure it doesn't happen? Is it ours or
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: is it the politicians?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Well, what happened is there were laws put in place,
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  Speaker 2: not as strong as I would like, which did limit
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: the power of big money, okay? And what that Supreme
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Court decision said is what Congress did was unconstitutional, denied
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Big money, their freedom of speech. If you're a billionaire,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: you have freedom of speech. That means you can run
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: ads all over the day and beat Bernie Sanders, beat anybody.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: And that's what happened. So what we have got to
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: do now is, once again, pass legislation that will do that.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Are there politicians that aren't viable, kind of, or aren't
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: influenced by lobbyists?
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Of course there are. There are. There are some very
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: good people. But many people, look, just to write an example,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you're running for election, okay? Your opponent is spending millions
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: of dollars. These TV ads are up there, all right?
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: You think you're going to stand up to powerful special
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: interests who say, you know, Theo, listen, I like you,
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: but you're going to take that position on that issue.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I've got to be running millions of dollars of ads
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: against you. What do you think you're going to do
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: if you want to get elected? You could say, well,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: go to hell. I'm going to do it anyhow. And
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: many would do. Or you run the risk of failure.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: you know, seeing that kind of money come against you.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Or you then have to find a lobbyist that has
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: an interest of yours and you have to try and
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: fight back.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Which is a pretty pathetic thing, right?
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: So to some degree, which I have right now, it's
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: a funny kind of thing. Let's say you were running
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: against me. It's not you against me. It's your moneyed
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: interest versus my moneyed interest. That's what super PACs are. Now,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: corporations cannot directly contribute to your campaign, but big money interests, billionaires,
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: can contribute to a super PAC. So you have all these.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: I would say to you, people who watch the show here,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: look at the ads that are on television. There'll be
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Underneath it, you'll see paid for by supporters of an
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: American way of life or whatever the hell it is.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Understand that in most cases, these are billionaires putting money
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: into a candidate.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: So the super PAC is kind of the loophole.
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Is how they do it. So it's not directly from there. Exactly.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: There are limits. All right, you wanted to contribute to
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: my campaign. They're pretty stringent limits. You can't contribute. I
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: think it's, I don't know, it's 5,000 bucks. Through a
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: super PAC, you can contribute $ 100 million.
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: That's a big issue. We don't talk about it enough.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: And then you can understand that if you're an ordinary person,
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: who's going to listen to your interests, your needs, right?
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: When billionaires are putting in this kind of money.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: If the best I can help you out with is 5,000 bucks,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you might show up and shake my hand. But when
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: something really, when the rickshaw hits the road or whatever,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: you're going to be working for the big dogs for
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the cash.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: And that's the way the system works.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: And how do we change that?
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Well, first of all, this campaign finance reform is a
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: big deal. Just this one issue. And I'm glad you
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: raised it. We've got to do away with the Citizens Union.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: We have to have restrictions. When I ran for president,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: the average contribution was $ 27, roughly speaking. And we've got
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: millions of people to contribute. So I think there has
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: to be a real stringent limit on the amount of
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: money that any individual can put into the political process.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: And I also believe that we should move to what
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: we call public funding of elections. You're a candidate. You
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: want to run for governor. You want to run for senator.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: If you show that you have a certain amount of support,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: you got X number of thousands of people willing to
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: put $ 5 into your campaign, you can be able to
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: get public funding and there's a limit on how much
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: you can spend. These are not radical ideas. They exist
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: in many countries around the world, actually.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty normal. Do you think that our election
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: process is still democratic? Do you think it's still... Yes
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: and no. I mean, you know, you want to run
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: for office.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Can you? Yeah, you can. you've got a certain number
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: of signatures. But if you're going to win, and I
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: have 10 times more money than you do, I will
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: beat you 95% of the time. I mean, that's a fact, right?
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: You'll beat me.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe if you're really an exceptional candidate and I'm a
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: real idiot, you will beat me once in a while.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: But by and large, the money people will win. So
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: if you're asking me, are we a democracy? In one sense,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: we are. You can run for office. You can raise
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: your issues. On the other hand, in terms of who
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: has the real power, money people do. And I use
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: the term oligarchy. And oligarchy is a society where small
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: numbers of very wealthy people control the economic and political
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: life of the country. I think we are moving rapidly
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: in that direction.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it's, to me, it feels like
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: an almost privatized communism in a way.
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: That's a very good point. It's a very good, it's
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: an interesting way of looking at it.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't know exactly sometimes everything and what
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: communism is and what socialism is, but sometimes that's how
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: it feels.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Well, let me give you an example. Can I pick
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: up on your point?
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. Okay.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I believe we are the only nation on earth, major nation,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: wealthy nation, that does not guarantee health care to all people. Okay?
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Get in your car, go 50 miles where you are
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: sitting right now in Burlington, Vermont. You have a terrible
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: automobile accident. You're in the hospital for a month in Canada.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: You know what the bill is when you come out? Zero.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Nothing.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Okay. Do you know how much the Canadians spend per
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: person on health care compared to us? One half as much.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: They spend half as much. You don't take out your wallet.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: If you get sick, you go to the doctor that
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: you want. Okay. I believe in that type of system.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: They guarantee health care to all of their people. It's
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: publicly funded the way we fund police departments, fire departments,
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: and libraries.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: You got to pay taxes for it. But at the
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: end of the day, it is less expensive for your
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: health care. You follow what I'm saying?
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Cause you're, um, you're a proponent for healthcare for all right. And, um, yes.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: And you always have been. And, um, but how the
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: system seemed, that system seems so rigged because you have, uh,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: you have like one of the number one causes of
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: bankruptcy in America is medical debt, right?
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable. Like people can't, you know, people, they go in,
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: they don't even know the cost. They sign an agreement
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: that they're going to be billed later.
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: It's like, and then they get the bill and it's
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: astronomical and they spend the rest of their life, literally
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: a slave to the healthcare system or to the medical
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: billing system or the, you know, dealing with their insurance
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: and not to mention they're sick. So the added stress
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: of that, it just feels like, yeah, like something so
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: much better could be done.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: You know, that is so pathetic and so sick and
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: so cruel. I mean, we did a hearing on this
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: and roughly speaking, and I know the viewers will think
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: this is hard to believe. Half of the people who
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: are dealing with cancer, and cancer is a terrible disease, right?
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Your point. 100%. You're struggling for your life, right?
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: Bad, yeah, bad.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe you make it, maybe you don't. You've got radiation, chemotherapy,
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: bad stuff, right? Half the people who get cancer treatment
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: either end up in bankruptcy or utilizing all of the
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: financial resources of the family. They're depleted. They're broke. So
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: imagine that. You go into the hospital. Doctors, it's zero. Sorry,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: you got cancer. Terrible. You're worried to death, right? Your friends,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: your family are worried. And then on top of that,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: what are you worried about? Oh, my God. What, I'm
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: going to have to sell my house? Or I have
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: to go bankrupt in order to pay medical bills? That
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: is insane. Yeah. And it adds, if you're trying to
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: deal with cancer, then you've got to worry about financial stress.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: Think it's going to make your condition any better?
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: No, the worst. You spend half your day. You can't even.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: In the insurance companies, it's all a rigmarole. It's constant stress.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: But how is it set up like that? What is
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the gimmick between insurers and the hospital? That's the thing
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know. What's going on?
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: Let's take it a step further. Let me talk about
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: the Canadian system. Simple system. You pay taxes. And progressive.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: The more you make, the more you pay. But everyone
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: pays taxes. End result is you walk into the hospital,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: you sign your name, you have all the treatment you need.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: And it's good quality health care. You don't have to
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: argue with insurance companies. You get the care that the
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: doctors think you need. End of discussion. And in my view,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: that's the way it should be. We spend, it's not
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: just that the insurance companies make huge profits. They do.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Not just they pay their CEOs exorbitant salaries, which they do.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Everybody's got to fill out a thousand different forms, right?
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Goes crazy filling out forms to see what you're entitled to,
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: what you're not entitled to, deductibles, right?
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the bureaucracy. It's ridiculous. Is that called bureaucracy?
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. All right, so look,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: you may have health insurance. But I just talked to
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: a person the other day. We had a meeting. You
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: know what their deductible was? $ 13, 000. What does that mean?
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: It means that the first $ 13, 000 of illness they got
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: to pay out of their own pocket. How many people
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: can make $ 13, 000? So if you get hit by a
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: truck and you earn up a million-dollar bill, yeah, the
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: insurance companies will kick in, presumably. All right, so the
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: whole idea that health care in America exists Unlike every
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: other major country. Go to Europe. Go to Canada. Go
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: to many Latin American countries. It is a bloody right,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: not a privilege. And that's what I think it should be.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: So we have a system that works very well for
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: the insurance companies and the drug companies. In some cases,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: you're going to pay 10 times more for medication in
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: America than they do in other countries. That's a whole
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: other story we're trying to deal with right now. But
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: it's a corrupt system benefiting the people who own it,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: not the ordinary American. You go out on the street.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Go out on the street. Say to people, do you
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: think healthcare is a human right? All people in America
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: should have it. Yeah, we do. That's what I'm fighting for.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: And who are the lobbyists that are against that then?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: What do you think? Guys from the insurance companies and
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: the drug companies.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Okay, and then what politicians work with those? Why don't
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: we know what politicians are cheating us so that we
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: don't have them in anymore?
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: All right, you're a smart guy. You tell me, how
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: often have you heard a discussion in this country about
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: how broken the healthcare system is and comparing it to
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: other countries. A lot. All right. You've heard a lot
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: about this.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think I hear a lot about,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I look into it a lot.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: You look into it, but how many people even know
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: that we are the only major country on earth not
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: to guarantee healthcare to all people? So when people say, oh,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders is a radical idea. He thinks everybody should
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: have healthcare.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: That exists in Canada. It's in France, in England, in Denmark,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: in Sweden, in every bloody country on earth, virtually rich country.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: So it's not a radical.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Even Mars, I heard they have health care there now.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Now, some people would say that the argument against that
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: would be that then there's less personal responsibility to take
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: care of yourself, right? But do you?
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: But that would be in other countries anyway, right? That
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: would be anywhere.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: If God forbid you or I came down with a
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: serious illness tomorrow, am I going to blame you for
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: coming down with cancer? I mean, is that a personal responsibility?
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. Yeah, probably not. That might just
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: be kind of a ghost of an argument.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: But to pick up on that point, what should one
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: of the priorities of a good healthcare system be? It
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: should be to try to keep people healthy. So it
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: should encourage people to have good diet, to do exercise,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: to stay away from addictive stuff, right? Do we do
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: a particularly good job on that? Not so much. Because
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: where do the insurance companies make their money? Hey, if
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: you're really sick, pretty good.
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: We keep you healthy. Not so much.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Are they one of the largest lobbyist groups?
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Yep. Wow. Very, very, they're huge. I mean, we started
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: this discussion. You talk about, you know, privatized communism, whatever
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: the expression you used is. I believe that, you know,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Medicare is the health insurance program for the elderly. Medicaid
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: is for lower-income people. I think we should combine all
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: these and guarantee health care to all people. But your
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: point is that in the private sector, we are moving
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: to a monopoly, and it's true. People like UnitedHealth, unbelievable. UnitedHealth,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: to the best of my knowledge, has under contract or
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: hires 10% of the doctors in America. Got that? One
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: insurance company, 10% of the doctors.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: And so how would you even start to undo something
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: like that? What's a realistic path to reform, I guess? Thanks.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Great question. Because I wrote the bill, I know the answer.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: Right now, you have Medicare, which is a very popular program.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: It's life-saving to many elderly people. That was developed in
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: the 1960s by President Lyndon Johnson. Very popular program. You've
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: got Medicaid for the lower-income people, also a popular program.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: What I would do is, over a four-year period, take Medicare.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: First thing you do is expand Medicare because Medicare does
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: not now cover dental, hearing, or vision. A lot of
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: people can't afford to go to a dentist. Got me?
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Okay. You expand it. And then you say right now
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: to be eligible for Medicare, you've got to be 65
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: years of age. Okay. First year, lower it to 55.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: So you're 57. Congratulations. You don't have to worry about
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: whether you have insurance on your job. You want to
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: hear something else crazy about the private insurance system. You
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: work for a big corporation, okay? They give you good
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: health insurance. He works for McDonald's, virtually nothing, right? That's
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: pretty crazy. Where you work determines the kind of healthcare
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: you get. Anyhow, so we go from 65 down to 55,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: 55 next year down to 45, 45 to 35, fourth
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: year you cover everybody. Gradual absorption. So you have a
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Medicare system that covers all people. You no longer have
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: to pay Any more deductibles or copayments, no more premiums.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: You get your health care because you're an American citizen.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Will your taxes go up? They may. Will it be
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: less than what you pay right now in private insurance? Yes,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: it will be. It's a good deal.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Can we afford that as a country, you think?
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: True.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: We are now spending over $ 4 trillion on health care.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: We spend double. Here's another point to be made. We
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: spend twice as much per person on healthcare as any
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: other country because it's designed to make money for the
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: insurance companies and the drug companies.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Wait, so explain that to me. So we spend twice
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: as much on healthcare.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: We are spending right now.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: As any other country. Yes. Per person. Yes. But we're not,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: but the money isn't going towards them getting, so we'd
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: almost save the money just by. You got it.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Here, example.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Is that true?
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's true. Check it out. It is true. Chairman
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: of the bloody committee. Yes, it is true. All right.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Bloody, literally, people are bleeding out, dude. All right.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: If I buy a car tomorrow for $ 80, 000, you buy
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: a car for $ 40, 000, what is the presumption? Should my
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: car be a better car than yours?
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Okay. I'm spending twice as much, all right, but I
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: got a really much great, better car than you have.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: All right. We are spending per person, per person, Over $ 13, 000.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Spending $ 13, 000 on you, $ 13, 000 on me, $ 13, 000 on a five-year-old, $ 13, 000
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: on a 90-year-old. $ 13, 000 per person over $ 4 trillion nationally.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Canadians are spending about half of that per person.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: And they're taking care of everybody.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Yes. And the British are spending less than that. Other
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: countries a little bit less.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: But does that affect us with the population number that
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: we have?
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: No, it doesn't matter.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, per person. Got it.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about in gross, but per person.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: How do you stop hospitals from overcharging if they know
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: that the government's going to pick up the tab?
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: Good. Very good question. The answer is what they do.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's not like we're inventing something. Other countries
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: do it. What they say to hospitals is, look, you're
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: not going to be charging Theo when he's in the hospital.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: You're not going to be charging him a nickel. But
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: we know, roughly speaking, in a year what you are
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: going to be. You need a certain number of doctors
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: and radiologists and nurses and all that stuff. Here is
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: your budget. It's like a police department. Here's your budget
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: in a year. You need more, maybe we'll come up
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: with more. You get what we call a global budget.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: It's like the Dodgers or something.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: But you've got a global budget.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Right, you've got a budget.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: And you take care of all the needs. It's not
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: per person. You get it. And what you do there,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: we spend as a nation, one of the other insanities
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: of this country, healthcare system. We spend hundreds of billions
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: of dollars on billing. You know what I mean by
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: that article billing?
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: All right. So I'm the insurance companies. First of all,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: you got to fill out forms. I hire people who
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: are not doctors or nurses, right? They just book.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: All right. You got bill collectors. You got, you go
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: to a hospital, go down to the basement, got a hundred, well,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: depending on the size of the hospital, dozens and dozens
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: of people. They don't want to see a patient. They're
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: just filling out forms. Yeah.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Half the Philippines is people just do a medical billing
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: over the phone. You know?
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Well, there are countries where you show your card and
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: that's the end of the discussion. But we waste hundreds
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: of billions of dollars just on billing people. And there's
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: another issue I want to discuss. Life expectancy. What do
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: we know about life expectancy?
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: We're getting pretty long in the tooth.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Nope.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: We're not living long.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: Nope. Compared to whom?
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Compared to probably Vietnam.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I'm sure maybe. All right. But... All right. We have
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: the richest country on earth. Do we live longer lives
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: than other people?
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: No, we don't.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: We do not. In fact, we're pretty far down the list.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: Why is that?
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think it could be that we're
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: not taking as good care of ourselves.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: And I think it could be that, yeah, that we
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: don't have as good a healthcare.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: That's right. All right. I think that's two pretty, I
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: think that's two out of three. All right. Now here,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: there are two facts. We, country, Japan, other countries will
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: live four or five years, six years longer than we do.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: That's a lot. You know what I mean? Yeah. So
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: they'll live, I forgot what it is.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Like 8% or something.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: It's a lot.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: But here's another fact that is really unbelievable. It's not
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: just that we live shorter lives despite spending so much
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: on healthcare. The gap between the 1% and the working
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: class is 10 years. If you're rich, you'll live as
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: long as people in other countries. You'll have a long life,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: the 80s or whatever it is. If you're working class,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: you're going to live 10 years younger. How does that happen,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: do you think?
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Because just stress, burnout?
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Man, all right. I'm going to sign you up there.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: You got it.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Look, I think I like a lot of the things
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: that you think about.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Let's deal with the issue of stress. Okay. Yes, you're right.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: It is twofold, it seems to me. Number one is
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: if you're rich, you go to any doctor you want.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: When you want it, get paid for all the drugs
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: you need, right? All right, that's a real advantage. But
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: above and beyond that, working class people live under enormous stress, right?
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: And that takes a toll on you. Takes a toll
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: on you physically and mentally. And that is, we have
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: parts of this country where life expectancy is actually in decline.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: Got it? People are living shorter lives.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Because of the stress.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Because of the stress. And with that stress and the hopelessness,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: they turn to drugs, they turn to alcohol, they turn
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: to suicide. Yeah. All right? that stuff.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah. I think those are things that, yeah, they
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: don't even take those factors into consideration when they're making
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: all of these, you know, you call to get your
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: medical bill. It's a nightmare. It's like, it's, it's a fight.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: You almost want to, this is crazy. There's been times
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: when I've been like, I would rather take my own
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: life than sit here and make another fucking call. And
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not even sick. You know, I'm just somebody trying
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: to get to the bottom of the, all right.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: And what, why does that happen? What's because it's loopholes.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: They want you, they don't want you to, Get paid.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: You got it. Not that hard. Look, you pay me
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: money through insurance, right? So you're sick. I'm supposed to
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: pay your bills, right? If I drive you crazy, you're
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: going to say, screw it. Hell with it. I'll pay
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: the goddamn thing myself. It's not worth it. Good. I'm
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: the insurance company. Right on, man. That's exactly what I wanted.
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  Speaker 1: So then how do we change that as a system?
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: What do we do? Because it feels like we're electing
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: people that have this in our best interest If that's
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: the number one cause of bankruptcy is medical billing, how
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: do our politicians not see that this is extremely important
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: and that things need to be different? Like, what are
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: they lobbying so powerful with? I know it's money, but
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: it's like, I just can't imagine that people wouldn't see
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the good, the value in what is right.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Wow. You know, it's all that I can tell you
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: is money talks to a large degree. And it's not
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: to suggest that, you know, members of Congress are evil
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: or terrible people that want people to suffer. They don't.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: But you have a system which almost says, oh, you
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: can't even think about guaranteeing health care to all people. Oh,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: my God. You're a far leftist. You're a communist man.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: What are you? You don't want to take all the
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: insurance companies, hardworking people, you know. So it almost, you're
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: not even allowed to talk about those issues. And meanwhile,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: we're the only country that doesn't guarantee healthcare. Yeah.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, my one caveat, I don't know exactly what
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: caveat means, but I think my one, you know, left
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: turn on it would be, yeah. How much responsibility then
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: do people, are people going to just have totally less
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: responsibility and just be taking pills? You know, I don't know.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe that's just a crazy thought, but if it's not
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: happening in other countries, then Maybe that's a good example
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: that it wouldn't happen here.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: It is an issue in other countries. For example, you're
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: a lonely older person, maybe you're living by yourself. I'm
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: feeling lonely. Maybe I'll go to the doctor when I'm
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: not really sick.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Will people abuse it? Yeah, so what? I mean, it happens,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: and you try to discourage that. So no system is perfect.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: But the bottom line, as Americans, we have to answer
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: a very simple question. Is health care a right of
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: all people, whether you're rich, poor, medium, whatever you are?
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: I think the answer is yes.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I think especially when you start to look at
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: other places that we spend our money, it would be
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: very hard not to say we should certainly spend it
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: there first. It's just fucking unbelievable that we're this powerful
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: of a country and we don't have a, like, it's
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: like we lost our emotional.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: That's a good point. And I'll tell you something else.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: Let me get off healthcare for a second. Okay.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: Well, before we get off, I want to, so I
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: know that you guys have a bill. Cause I have a,
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a group that I've worked with done volunteer or stuff
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: with called power to the patients.
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: And it's, It's notating the prices of, like, say you
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: get an MRI. Like, the hospital now has to let
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: you know that the MRI is $ 700 so you can
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: call the hospital down the street and see that there
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: it's $ 550 so you can make a choice so you
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: know up front.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: That's good.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: So you're not getting a $ 10, 000 bill later on.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: You got it. It's called the transparency bill.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Transparency bill. And is it passed yet or no?
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: No, it has not. I'm working with it with a
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: guy named Senator Braun from Indiana who's a Republican.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Good guy.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: And look, it's exactly the issue. People walk into an
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: emergency room. They walk into a hospital. Do you have
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: any idea? Here, Theo, this is what we're going to
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: do for you, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you come
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: out and you drop dead because you see a bill
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: of tens of thousands of dollars, right? That's a crazy part.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, people go in surgery. They come out with
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. It is.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: It's insane. All right. And the point is, look, I
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: should have the right to know– you want to hear,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: you think it's crazy. Let me tell you how crazy
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: it's even crazier than you think it is. Okay.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: You have blue cross insurance. I have another insurance company,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: same hospital. You go and get an MRI. Your insurance
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: company will pay $ 500. My insurance company pays $ 700. So
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: even in the same hospital for the same treatment, the
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: price is different, not to mention different hospitals. Yeah.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just wild that they can do that. It's
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: almost like I'm going to go to the grocery store.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get an apple, right? I'm going to
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: eat it. And then after I eat it, you're going
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: to tell me how much it costs.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: You got it.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: And they're like, it's $ 400. You're like, is it from
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: the Garden of Eden?
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: But it's even worse. You're exactly right. But it's even
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: worse because you had to go to the hospital.
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: Right, right.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, it wasn't a choice that you made. I know
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: you guys had launched an investigation, even because this is
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: kind of current, about Ozempic, right, and the cost of
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Ozempic in different countries. Because I was dating a girl,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: or not dating, but we met up a couple times
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: at night or whatever, and it's like she was leaving
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: one morning to drive to Mexico to get Ozempic. And
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I'm like, what are you, you're just driving in the
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: middle of the, you know, at 5 a.m. to go to,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: what's going on? And she's like, well, it's just way
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: cheaper there. And I'm like, but is it as regulated?
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. But I know that in
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: some countries, the prices on it are so different. Like
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: in Canada, it's 150 something dollars.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Got it.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: And in America, it's 700 and something.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Close to a thousand.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: It's close to a thousand dollars for a diabetes medication.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: I know some people use it for, you know, kind
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: of weight loss or look the way they want spring
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: break or whatever, but that's crazy. Why is it that,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: why isn't it just the same? Is it because they
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: know they can charge us more because we have more money?
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: That's half of it, but only half of it. That's
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: a great question. Thanks for asking it. All right. It's
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: what my committee deals with every day. We've had, by
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: the way, some success in the last few years, and
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: the Biden people have done a good job on this.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: All right. Why is it that... I want to make
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: sure I'm right here. Well, certainly in Canada, it's about
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: $ 150 for Ozempic. Here, it's $ 900, close to $ 1, 000. Why
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: is that? What the Canadians do... and what countries around
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: the world do, what makes common sense. They purchase a
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: lot of the drug, right? All right. So they sit
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: down with the drug companies. They say, look, we have
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of people who are going to use
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: your drug. We're going to sit down and we're going
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: to negotiate a price, right? Right.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Of course, certainly after a few months, you'd be able
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: to see the averages and make a good business choice. Right.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you're a businessman- And you're buying something
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: from me. You're buying thousands of items. I'm going to
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: have to give you a discount if I want your business, right?
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Certainly.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: That's the way the business works. So that's what every
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: country on earth does. They sit down with the drug companies.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Some do it more stringently than others. Up until very,
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: very recently, there have been no requirements, zero, for the
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: drug companies to negotiate anything. So they come in and
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: they say, what do you think we can get, Harry?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: sitting around their board of directors. Well, I think you
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: can get $ 10, 000 a year. No, I think you can
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: go high. You can get $ 20, 000. Look, we get what
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: the market will bear. The government has no power, charge
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: of anything you want. That's what they do. So you've
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: got now, it's not just Ozempic, in which we pay
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: in some cases 15 times more than European countries. It's
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: all kinds of drugs. So the answer is, the answer
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: to your question is, Up until recently, and the Biden
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: administration has done a good job of this, there have
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: been no capabilities of the government, Medicare, anybody else, to
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: negotiate prices. They charge you anything they want and as
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: much as they possibly can. What we did is part
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: of a bill called the Inflation Reduction Act. Stupid title
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: to the bill, but that's what it was. Finally have...
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: that the drug companies are going to have to sit
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: down with Medicare and negotiate prices. They're going to be
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: announcing some interesting results pretty soon. So for the first time,
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: there is the beginning of negotiating prices, and it will
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: lower prices. Second of all, what we've done on my committee,
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of people have asthma, and they use inhalers.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you know anybody using an asthma inhaler.
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: 10 times more expensive than the United States. Well, we
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: kind of shamed some of the big companies. They lowered
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: it down to some of them to $ 35. So making
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: some progress on lowering the cost of prescription drugs. But
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: to answer your question, up until a couple of years ago,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: drug companies could charge any price they wanted for any reason.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: And that could be changing with the Inflation Act?
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Inflation Reduction Act. What it basically says is the
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: 10 top selling drugs, they're gonna have to come then
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: and sit down and negotiate with medicare price that is
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: by the way what the veterans administration does the va
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: in america does a good job yeah they don't pay
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: outrageous prices they negotiate and that's what medicare.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Is beginning yeah if you can't breathe i mean yeah
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: you're almost a fish if you can't breathe you know
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: um Let's talk about some policy. Oh, wait. And the
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: price transparency, that's happening now? People have to show their
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: prices or they don't?
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: No, they don't. We still have them pass that bill.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Okay. Do you think it's going to happen?
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: It's a popular bill. I think we have a good
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: shot to get it done.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's cool. Yeah, man. It makes me just sick
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: because somebody's already sick. And you know they're sick. If
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: it were your family member, you want them to just
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: sit there and just be angry, they're on the phone
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: every day, then they don't have any energy for their
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: own family.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: You're absolutely right.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: I just can't imagine choosing, especially when you're already making
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: a ton of money, choosing to make a little more money.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: What do you need?
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Well, now you're raising even another issue.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: What do you need?
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: You're talking about corporate greed here, but that's another issue.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you hate it. We all hate it.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I think America's at the point where the screw has
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: been turned so fucking tight that I think, yeah, it
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: starts to create radicalization, starts to create a lot of stuff.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about the election coming up right now or
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: just the current candidacy. I wanted in 2020, I believe
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: that's when you ran, I wanted you and Donald Trump
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: to be on the same ticket, right? That was a
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: thought that I had because in my mind, I'm just
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: a regular guy. I don't know a ton about politics, right?
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: I wanted.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: I felt both of y'all were outliers, right? That's how
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: it seemed to me. These guys are both outliers. They're
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: both different, but seem to be doing their own thing.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: You've been outspoken against Trump, right? Do you think he's not,
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: is he doing his own thing?
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, he is. Look, I will give Trump credit. He
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: does his own thing. He's a very different type of politician.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: That's clear. But this is what I do think, Theo.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: While I respect somebody who has the guts to do
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: their own thing and be very much a non-traditional politician,
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: which is what he is, here's the facts. He lies
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: all the time. And, you know, I got four kids
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: and I got seven grandchildren, and we really have to
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: ask ourselves whether the guy who is the leader of
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: the country, whether that's the kind of example that we want.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: So I have a lot of friends in politics who
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: differ with me, more conservative people. They're not liars. We disagree.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: So you and I disagree on something.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: It's fine.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: So what? It's called American democracy.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it used to be fine.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: That's right. All right? But Trump really is, I use
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: the word pathological.
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: He lies.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: When you see him, I tell them every, not everything,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: but a lot of lies.
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: Okay?
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: And I think that's, we can't have that. You know,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: when he was in the private sector, before he became
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: involved in politics, he was sued, his companies were sued 4,000 times.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: And I just above and beyond his political views, which
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: I disagree with. But then those you can discuss. I
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: don't think you want somebody leading this country who is shady.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: So you're saying he doesn't set the best example of- Exactly.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Look, you got kids. Do you have any kids?
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: I don't have any yet.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: All right. All right. Well, I hope you do. And
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: you want kids to be honest, right?
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: You don't want them to be bullies and picking on
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: the weak. And so that from a character point of view,
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: I don't like. But also, let me give another example.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: I happen to believe. I don't know what your views are,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: that women have a right to control their own bodies.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I don't want, as a man, somebody saying, oh, Bernie,
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: you can't have a vasectomy. You can't do this. It's
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: my business, not the government's. And Trump does not hold
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: that view. I happen to believe strongly that climate change
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: is real. Just a week or two ago.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw your podcast with Bill... Billinkoff?
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: Bill McKibben, of course. Bill McKibben, yeah. And Bill is.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to get to speak to him. He
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: seems really interesting.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Smart guy. Is he? I've known him for years.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I want to learn more about, you know,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: you just always hear about climate change. And so, yeah,
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I want to learn more about it.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Good. And I hope you do. And I'm sure Bill
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: would be happy to go on the show with you.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: That'd be cool.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: You know, if you want it, I can give him
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: a call.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: All of the scientists agree, when you put carbon into
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: the atmosphere, it creates a ceiling there. The earth warms up.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: And then because of the earth warming up, you have
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: extreme weather disturbances. You come from Louisiana, do you?
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: We're sinking.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: You've seen the terrible floods there. We've had them here
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: in Vermont.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they have them in Savannah right now going on.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: That's right. Floods the likes of which we've never seen.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: You're seeing drought. In Saudi Arabia, the temperature reached 125 degrees,
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: which people are dying by the hundreds. So Trump does
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: not believe that climate change is real. And if he
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: becomes president, that means not only will the United States,
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: the whole world will give up. And I don't know
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: what this planet is going to look like in 10,
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: 15 years.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: And do you say that because America is really the
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: leader of the forefront of looking out for climate change?
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: We're the largest economy in the world. China is a
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: bigger polluter than we are right now.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, dude. They all smoke, too. A lot of
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Chinese people. Yeah, that kid that smokes on that bicycle
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: or whatever. He smoked like 11 cigarettes.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: But if we say, hey, to hell with it, then
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: other countries are going to... Because it's a global problem.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Right, then everybody's going to be like, oh, screw it.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: You got everybody back soft. And then I don't know
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: what this planet... You talk about floods, it's going to
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: get worse and worse. Heat waves, worse drought, worse migrations.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: There are millions, hundreds of millions of people, little farmers
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: in poor countries. They can't farm anymore.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: So I disagree with Trump on that. So those are
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: some of the reasons why I'm strongly against him. Those
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: are important issues, you know?
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: Certainly, yeah. And I don't think everybody... Yeah, it's like
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: everybody can have their own thoughts on different issues. And
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: do you see why people like him?
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: I do.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: You know, because he's very disarming. He gets up there
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: and he says whatever the hell he wants. He is not.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he doesn't seem like he's by the book. He
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: is not by the book. Right. And so that's something
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: the same as you. It's like he's speaking for, it
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: feels like they're speaking for themselves, right? Whether you agree
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: with maybe what they believe, they believe what they're saying.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: And that, I think, comes through clearly to people.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I think he's certainly unusual. gets up there and he
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: rants and he does his thing and he's not necessarily
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: i'm sure his advisors go crazy but he's not you
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: know not reading off you know he doesn't.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Have kid rock is one of his advisors you know
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: and look i love kid rock but you know i
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: don't know if every advice you know every advice of
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: his is the best but now some of it is
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: that's for sure but some of it may not.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: Right and you know a lot of these politicians have
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: 18 different consultants you can't use that word you can't
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: say that.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: And that makes it miserable. He's not like that, right.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: And people find that appealing. I get it. But, you know, again,
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think you could have a pathological liar or
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: somebody who doesn't believe in women have the right to
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: control their bodies, you know, who doesn't believe in climate change.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: I think that's bad. And by the way, I'm not
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: quite so sure, but she believes in democracy as well. Yeah.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: Well, and look, yeah, that's how you feel, and it's important.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: And you've always had your own feelings, and I appreciate
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: you always having them. and sharing what they are. Did
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: you feel like whenever the people tried to assassinate, did
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: you think it was deeper than that? Do you think
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: it was just some Reddit jockey?
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: First of all, it was a horrible, I mean, I
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: disagree with Trump on everything, but the idea of people
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: assassinating Trump or anybody else is crazy. It's crazy. It
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: is horrible. And it's, I mean, I can't give you
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: the words. It's just terrible. We cannot have that in
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: American politics, my own guests, and I'm not an expert.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there are a lot of, you know, conspiratorial
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: theories that are out there. You know, I think you have,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: you know, we've seen it before. You've seen seemingly normal
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: people walking into schools with guns doing horrible things, right?
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: And I think you had, for whatever reason, I don't
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: want to even speculate why this young man did what
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: he did.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: But you just think it was a young man who just,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: that was it.
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: That's what the evidence seems to suggest so far.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: But you didn't hear anything else. You guys don't hear
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: anything else as Congress people. You don't hear anything deeper
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: than that. I don't know any great secrets that you
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: don't know.
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Do you think that Kamala Harris is the best person
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: to run against Donald Trump right now?
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Well, she is the person. And that won't change probably, huh?
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: She'll be the Democratic candidate. I've known Kamala for a
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: number of years. Not best friends, but I've known her.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: She was in the Senate for a short period. She's
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: very smart. And she's determined. Above and beyond her views
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: on the issues, which I support most of them, not all.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: You've got to give credit to somebody a black woman
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: to move up the ladder that ain't easy stuff there's
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: a lot of resistance to that and she's she's persistent
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: she's strong and i respect that and you know i
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: think she'll be a good candidate i was interested that
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: trump apparently backed out of a debate with her on
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: abc and i could i wouldn't uh you know i
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: have debated her as a matter of fact um she's tough.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: She's tough Was there a chance that you were going
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: to get that nominee as an independent? Can you get
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Ben Plotted with the Democratic Party and put in? Was
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: there even a call about it or anything?
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: No. I ran in 16. I ran against Hillary Clinton,
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: and I ran in 20.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember, and I felt like you didn't get
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: treated fairly, to be honest with you.
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: No, I didn't, and that's what happens when you take
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: on the establishments. What happened is we won the first
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: three primaries, and then the establishments, got very, very nervous
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: and they got a whole lot of candidates in the
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: democratic primary. And they said, Hey, be a good idea.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: If you all dropped out, let Joe Biden be the
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: one candidate people rallied around them.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: And is there a call that you get, and it's
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: like you're not going to move forward? Is it just
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: like news articles? How does the establishment kind of work?
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Well, what happens is I won the popular vote in Iowa.
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: I won the New Hampshire primary. I won the Nevada primary,
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: and those were the first three. And then front pages
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: of the New York Times, Democratic establishment, very nervous. Bernie
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: Sanders could win the whole thing. We were doing very
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: well in the polls. And I think behind the scenes,
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: people thought there were like 15 different candidates. And they
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: were splitting up the vote. And that's how I was.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: I was not necessarily getting over 50%. I was getting
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: more than other people. So I was on the way
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: to victory. And they said, look, Bernie shouldn't be the
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: candidate for a variety of reasons. We don't want him
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: the candidate. Drop out. And then on one day, a
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: lot of people, one or two days, a lot of
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: people dropped out. It was Joe Biden and me. And
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: Joe had a lot of support. And all these people
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: came behind him. And that's what happened. Let me also say,
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: having said that, Biden is a friend of mine. I
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: think he has done a very good job. last three
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: and a half years. And I'm working very hard to
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: see that Kamala is elected our next president.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: The heat of summer is here. God, it's hot. My
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: shadows are not even, I saw it having a lemonade
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: yesterday and wearing ice pack on its neck like God.
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• 52:08
  Speaker 1: Did you feel like, um, what did it see? It
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: started to seem like people were losing faith in, uh,
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: the media. Right. And I feel like that that's had
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: a huge effect on society. It's created a lot of
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: opportunities for, uh, what are often labeled as conspiracy theories,
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: but then often end up being truth just because, not all,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: but yeah, often end up being truths or having realness
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: to them because the news media isn't even, you know,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: it's like they all just go down these same similar
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: paths and it's not, it doesn't even feel real anymore.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, the fact that you and I are talking
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: is wild, you know, it's like, I fucking wouldn't talk
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: to me, you know, but.
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Look, the bad news is bad news and good news.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: The good news is you got a program. And millions
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: of people tune into it.
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: And part of that is that people not necessarily believe CBS, NBC, ABC,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: or even Fox or anybody else. And so let me
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: tell you what I think about that. Because I think
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: you're touching on an important issue. We talk about healthcare,
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: you talk about media. You have about eight large media conglomerates.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: you know, Comcast and all these guys. They're huge.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: Serious.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Exactly.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: They own, you know, people turn on their- Clear Channel.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: You got it. You got it. They're huge. They own,
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: they don't own one station. They own radio stations. They
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: own TV stations. They own movies, you know, producers. So
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: these are owned by very large billionaires, you know, big
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: companies owned by billionaires. And they will discuss issues from
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: here to here. I gave you an example about Medicare
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: for all. We should be having a tremendous discussion why
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: we're the only country on earth not to guarantee health care.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: It doesn't take place on television. We should be talking
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: about massive income and wealth inequality. There are three people
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: in America who want more wealth than the bottom half
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: of American society. Think that's appropriate?
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: No, sir. Okay. I think there should be a limit
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: on how much a person can earn.
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: To be honest with you, it may be some millions,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: but I don't think it should be billions.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: I agree with you. I agree with you, actually. And
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: I think most Americans would. When's the last time you've
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: seen that discussion on NBC? It ain't going to take place, right?
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: We have- But that's what the people want, though.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, that is exactly. That's why you're a success and
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: why other people, you know, with very limited resources, if
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: you like, because you don't see that type of discussion.
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: I just did a poll. My campaign did a poll
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: just on these issues. You know, talking about issues that
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: working class people want and need that are almost never
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: discussed in politics before. or in the corporate media? And
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: the answer is people are hurting. They want change. No
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: one's talking about it. Yeah.
• 54:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: It's heartbreaking. It's like, I don't know. The people don't
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: even get thought of anymore. It feels like a lot
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: of times. And here's the toughest part. I think Bernie
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: is as a person who, you know, has felt like
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: in their life, maybe their father died in a war,
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: their grandfather died in a war, and they've been tried
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: to pay their taxes and be a, you know, considerate
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: person in their town or their country. After a while,
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: those good people start, it starts to erode a little
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: because they don't feel like, and they lose their sense
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: of purpose, man. When you're, you lose the fabric of
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: your society. A lot of people, that's how they, they
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: didn't even realize it. A lot of us don't even
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: realize that's we identify as an American. And when you realize, well, America,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: it's nothing, but it's a, it's a shell LLC for
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: fucking big corporations. Then what am I? I'm just a,
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: I'm just a idiot, you know, and you almost feel
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: ashamed of yourself, you know, or you can, you know, anyway, just,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know. A lot of that stuff just, I
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: just don't see how people think that that's good or
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: how you're going to still be able to get people
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: to buy in.
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: Theo, I think you said it better than I did.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, I agree with you. I think a lot
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: of people are ashamed. They've given up. They're hurting. And
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: many of these people have fought and died, or their
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: families have fought and died in wars, and they're good people.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: And maybe they're nurses and they're Business people?
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anything. Crossing guard, mailman. Right, exactly.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: They believe in their community.
• 56:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: And meanwhile, they're getting ripped off by people on top
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: politically and economically.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Well, even the radio, like you're saying, it's like you
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: used to have like a newspaper and you read and
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: it meant something. Your community meant something. It used to
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: be that your grandpa worked at the factory and they
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: made the table that you have in your home. And
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: so everything had a story to it. There's some connection.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: And now it's like we're buying stuff from countries that
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: they're making it. They don't care. We're using it. We
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: don't care. There's no story. Nobody has any, like, there's no,
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: there's no thread. You know, the thread just gets thin.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: That's a very profound point you just made.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: And so how do we get it back?
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: You know, it ain't easy, but I think it's, but
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: I think you hit the nail on the head. People,
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: you know, you're in right now you're in Vermont, which
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: is one of the smallest States in the country. It's
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: very rural state. Beautiful. Burlington is the largest city with 40,000.
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: I used to be mayor here, you know. But you
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: go into small towns, everybody knew everybody. Often they were
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: dairy farmers. We had a lot of dairy farmers. People
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: worked really hard being a dairy farmer. Oh, yeah.
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: I used to work at Cold Stone Creamers for a while.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: So not the same, but I get it.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: But I mean, milking cows, you know, 5 o'clock in
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: the morning on a cold winter day ain't easy work.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: But it was like everybody knew each other. Nobody cheated
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: each other. There was a sense of, then you have
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: town meetings once a year and people argue about the
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: school budget and all that stuff. And we are losing
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: that big time for a lot. Maybe next time we'll
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: talk about that. But we're losing that, as you indicated,
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: for a lot of reasons. And if we don't get
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: it back, I worry about the future of this country.
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is kind of a bigger topic. I've heard
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: you talk about the 32-hour work week, man. It's intriguing.
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: The second I heard that, I'm like, I'm in, you know?
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: I tell you, it got a lot of response. Yeah,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: I think there was a poll. I don't know if
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: it was a Newsweek. I don't know where it was that... Yeah,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: the 32-hour workweek. And one of the reasons behind it
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: is why.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, here's why. All right, let me back it up
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: a little bit. Okay. I'm going to ask you a question.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Are you ready for a tough question?
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: All right. Over the last 50 years, five zero years,
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: massive changes in technology, right? 50 years ago, they didn't
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: have this stuff. Worker productivity has gone way up, right?
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: So you're a worker now playing with technology, machinery, whether
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: it's a computer, whether it's factory technology. You're producing a
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: lot more, correct? In terms of real.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: You're producing more because you have machines that can help you.
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: Okay. Right. Much more, by the way. Right.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: So a machine can do the work of 30 men
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: in a day.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: You got it. Whatever it may be. Okay. Despite all
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: of that, increased worker productivity, is the worker of today
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: in real inflation accounted for dollars? making more or less
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: money than that worker was doing or a similar type
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: worker 50 years ago. What's the answer? I would say less.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: So less based on inflation and everything. The workers making
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: less now than they were then. In real dollars.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're called real dollars.
• 59:13
  Speaker 6: Inflation accounted for dollars.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Real dollars.
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: Okay. How insane is that if that worker is now
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: producing so much more than he or she did?
• 59:28
  Speaker 6: Oh, I see what you're saying. So now if a
• 59:29
  Speaker 6: worker is operating a machine and that machine is doing
• 59:32
  Speaker 6: the work of 20 workers, then why isn't there some
• 59:35
  Speaker 6: benefit to the worker?
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: You would think that that guy is making, well, that
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: worker is making more money, right? Hey, you're producing a
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: lot more.
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: Or widgets or whatever it is.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: Okay, got it?
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, make a mess.
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: We're going to put a lot of money in the company.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: Who benefited from it? Oh, the thing that Alex brought in.
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: Over that same period of time, there was a study
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: that there was a $ 50 trillion of typical redistribution of
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 4: wealth to your bottom 90% to the top 1%. So,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: getting back to the 32-hour working, it's a simple idea.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: If you are a worker producing a hell of a
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: lot more than was the case 50 years ago, you
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 4: should benefit from an increased technology. And one of the
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: breakout people, as you mentioned, I'm going to live in
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: under a lot of stress, right? If you can lower
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 4: that work week without loss of pay.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 6: So you're saying that there needs to be some feedback
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 6: to them because that's if everybody's earning more, if the
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 6: company's earning more.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Some of the greed, it's just scary, man.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Yeah. It's just scary.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 6: I want to get into, oh wait, but what about,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 6: would you have to raise the pay of people then? Oh,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 6: I guess you would because they're.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, if you reduce, what we've been doing
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: here is reducing the work week, which is from 40
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: to 32, which, by the way, has not been changed
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 4: since 1944.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and that's when people had to do crops and everything. Yeah,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 6: people were just, yeah, people.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Were snitting by lightning bug.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: So we are a much wealthier nation now, but I
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 4: want that wealth to be distributed a little bit.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, by the way.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: We're almost done, yep. Just one more issue I want
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: to ask, and it'll be quick.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 6: Last question. If you were to look at, if there's
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 6: somebody out there today who's like a guy who you were,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 6: who wanted to see change, who, you know, started protesting
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 6: on campuses and got involved and became a mayor and
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 6: wants to get into politics and really thinks that they
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 6: can make a difference, what path do they need to
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 6: try for themselves now with so much lobbying and stuff
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 6: going on?
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 4: Like, what would you tell them? All right, first of all,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: what you're involved in if some politics would change. And
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: being an elected official is one way of.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Bringing up a chance. But it's not the only way.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: You know, Dr.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 4: Martin Luther King Jr. was never elected in anything, right?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: He had a profound impact on this country. Never elected
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: in anything, all right? And you're seeing young people who
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: are concerned about climate change on campuses. So go with
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 4: your passions. Your passion may be different than mine. What's
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: your issue?
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: So work on that issue.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Read people. Educate. Organize.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: Read people. And if you then decide, hey, you may
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 4: go lower up to the state legislature. Maybe lower up
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: your pounds.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: I want to get.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: My hands dirty in politics.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: Do it.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 4: But first of all, don't do it just because I
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: want to get a language.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: That's bad, right?
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: Do it because you believe in it. And getting elected
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: will help you do it fine. If not, you can
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 4: do it in other ways.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 6: Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for your time, man.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: Thank you very much. Let me just say this. Congratulations
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: on your program. And what programs like this do, I'm
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: on TV a lot. We only get seven seconds to
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: make a point. Can't make it seven seconds. We argue
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: you can have a serious discussion about serious issues is
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: really great. I thank you for the opportunity, and thank
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: you for what you've done.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 6: I've always been a proponent, and thank you for just
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 6: being an outspoken person who believes in things and moves
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 6: forward with those beliefs.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: For 50 years now, Hip-hop has been a reflection of
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: culture and society.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: That includes stories of struggle and pain, social injustice, racial inequality,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: the marginalization of communities. Today, we confront a healthcare system
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 5: that has been rigged against all of us.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: Hospitals force patients to sign contracts for.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: Services without ever showing us actual prices, stifling competition, overcharging
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: without accountability. And if we can't pay, These same contracts
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 5: allowed them to take everything we own.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 4: Creating so much fear that millions and millions of Americans
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: refused to enter a hospital.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Putting our health and our lives at stake. This is
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: an American humanitarian crisis.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: We love our nurses and we need our doctors.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: But hospitals and insurers rigging a system to make profits
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 5: off of people that's in.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Struggle is unforgivable.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 5: We demand prices and transparency in healthcare.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: How? to the patients.