Latest / Locatora Radio [A Radiophonic Novela] / Who Gets To Be "American"? Pachucos, Zoot Suits, & The Riots | Capítulo 275

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Who Gets To Be "American"? Pachucos, Zoot Suits, & The Riots | Capítulo 275 · Locatora Radio [A Radiophonic Novela]

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't learn about the zoot Suits or the riots
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: until I was in college, and so just considering that
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: I was born and raised here, grew up here, and
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: that very local history was not one that I learned
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: until I moved out of LA And I think that
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: that's common for a lot of Latinos Chicanos who don't
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: learn their history until they go to a university or
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: they have to seek it out themselves. And it has
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: not been I'm not sure how it is now, but
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: growing up, it was not a part of our curriculum.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I think part of that is because it's sort of
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: a shameful part of Los Angeles history, because I think
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: that the zoot Suits in the beginning, back in the
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: day were treated with disdain and disgusted. Zoot suitors were
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: targets of violence. I mean, the riots were very violent,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: a bloody like series of events in downtown LA and
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: in Boyle Heights on the East Side, in which American
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: servicemen Navy men who were like stationed in Long Beach
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: in the Ports of Los Angeles came out to downtown
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: with loves and bats and dragged people out of movie theaters.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: Already O La La Loka motives. I'm Viosa and I'm Mala.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: You're listening to Loca Radio.
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: A radiophonic novella, which is just.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: An extra way of saying a podcast. We're so excited
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: to be in studio today. We have so much to
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: talk about, and we want to start by sharing kind
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: of how we got to this episode topic. Wow, because
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: to production meetings in a row we tried, we played
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: with the idea of doing in an episode about the
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: US and it's quote too well not quote it is,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: let me see it again, it's alleged digit founding.
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: Founding.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, so we wanted to do an episode in our
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: way right about two hundred and fifty years and we
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: tried all these different angles and just nothing felt right. Nothing, No,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: we just we couldn't.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: But then but then we said, you know what, instead
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: of talking about red, white, and Blue and Hamburger's and
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: hot dogs and the price of mayonnaise, right, why don't
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: we talk about something even more important in American history,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: which is the zoot Suit Riots and the anniversary of
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: zoot Suit, the cinematic masterpiece.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, so that's what we're talking about today. We're talking
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: about and really thinking about Chicano's chicanas Mexican, Mexican Americans
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: as the fabric as a part of US history. We
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: know that to be true, but it's not often framed
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: in that way. And so that's what we're going to
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: be doing today.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: And we are fresh off of a screening of zoot Suit,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: which also included a Q and A with Edward James Almos,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the star al Bachuco and Luis Is, the writer and
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: director of both zoot Suit the Play and Zootsuit the film.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: We went to the Ford. It was incredible, It was fabulous.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: The Butchu Go Car Club was there.
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: With their bombs, people were dressed up. It was very,
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: very cool.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: So we're going to take you back back in time
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: to the historical moment that is the Zootsuit Riots. We're
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: going to talk about zoot Suit as a fashion statement,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: a fashion piece of American iconography at this point and
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: what it means to us thinking about the fourth of
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: July and America and the two hundred and fiftieth of
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: the country.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, let's get into it.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: So we were at the Ford, like you mentioned, and
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: it was just I feel like any time because we
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: have had the opportunity to interview Edward James almost like
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: on the red carpet. I was at an award ceremony
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: with him once, and Luis father is obviously an icon,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: and so just to be you know, at the Ford
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Theater in Hollywood, iconic historic la Venue, listening and viewing
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: like living legends.
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: There was just something so like grounding in that, you know.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: That Edward James, almost Luis Valdez, they are our icons,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: they are our living legends, and to get to hear from.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: Them, and how the.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Play was written and how Edward James almost auditioned and
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: like just that backstory is so fascinating to me. And
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite things about hearing artists speak
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: and share like their how they got a role or
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: what the role meant to them.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: And all of that.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: And the historical importance and significance of zoot suit.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, I think about that night at the Ford,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the conversation with Louis Valdez and Edward James almost zoot
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: suits in general, the film, the event, and I just
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: think about like Chicano cool and Chicano style and Jim's
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: almost is up there and Luis Faldez and they're in
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: their eighties.
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and Edward like.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: With a long ponytail and an La hat and this
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: cool fucking jacket and talking about auditioning for Bachuco and
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: the dialogue and the gala and the physicality of it all.
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: Like it's all.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Style, and it's style that has endured for decades and
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: even now Willie Chavaria is creating silhouettes and patterns and
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: is putting models down the runway who are still wearing
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: zoot suits. Like it's a timeless elegance. And that's really
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: what was like, really just translating for me, Oh, absolutely
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: all night, Like it's a it's a period piece, but
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: it's completely timeless.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's it is, like you said, a culture
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and a style that has endured, because we can still
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: see the Bachuco style, you know, anywhere in East La,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: anywhere in bo Height. It's like it's not something of
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: the past, it's still present day. And then we have
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: new designers who have their own renditions or their own
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: homages to the style, like Willie Chavadiya.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think when we think about like tiny top,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: big bottoms, I'm like, yeah, that's a batchuka. Yeah, actually,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: like that's the silhouette and the film itself is just
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: so freakin' cool.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: So we watched We watched the movie after.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: The Q and A and I had never seen it
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: on a big screen. Yeah, neither have I and I
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: had this same experience years ago when we went to
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: like the Turkish Cultural Center to watch Selena and these
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: like iconic films that we've seen on our at home
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: on the TV, just like our on the small screen,
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: and when you watch it on a big screen as
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: part of an audience, it's like a whole different dynamic.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: So I loved that, and I loved that Edward James
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: almost shared that when he was younger, he was in
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: a rock and roll band and they performed on stage
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: at the Ford. And then here we are with him
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: listening to him talk he's eighty years old watching the
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: film on the big screen, and it just struck me
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: how much of a musical it is, because it really is.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: It's a very musical film and so much dancing.
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: One of the things I loved that Edward James almost
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: shared is how you know he's from Boyle Heights. He
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: grew up in that neighborhood. He went to East LA
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Community College and he was around, Butchu Goes and he
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: heard them speak Galo, and how he knew like the
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: musicality in it, and he knew the rhythm of it.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: And while he didn't speak it like, he knew a
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: thing or two and he just really understood its significance.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the reasons clearly he
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: nailed the role. You know, we obviously don't know who
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: else auditioned, but I think his connection to Gallo and
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: it just being a part of his surrounding is what
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: made him the iconic.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: But you go, and for those listening and watching Gollo,
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: what is it? What are we talking about? Like Luis
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: and Edward we're talking about on stage at the Ford.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: It is neither English nor Spanish, and they didn't describe
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: it as Spanglish either. It's its own specific dialect. And
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Edward identifies it as coming from the Texas Mexico border.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Luis Faldees quote describes it as like Spanish English Gypsy
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: that is like mixed together, migrated its way to southern
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: California to East Los Angeles, and there was a certain
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: subset of people in the neighborhood, the Pachucos, who would
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: speak it amongst themselves and that basically not even everybody
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: in the neighborhood, not even everybody in Bull Heights understood.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: It's almost like, to me, the way they describe it,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: it sounds like a creole in a sense.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: Like an insider language.
• 9:02
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: You either you grow up with it, you know it,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: but it's not it's not taught, you know, to outsiders.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: You have to be in the community to know.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: To know, you got to be in the note to know.
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: And I love that.
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: So much of the film also has that kind of
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: inside joke like insider writing and perspective, and the film
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: is very funny, and part of what they talked about
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: is how Louise Feldez combines humor with social critique, going
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: back to his Theatro Campecino days. Yes, that what they
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: were making plays about were these like horrific injustices and
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: human rights rights violations, but they were doing it with
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: a humorous like Bend and Lean and Zootsuit has a
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: lot of very funny moments.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I mean I was trying to remember the
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: first time that I saw Zootsuit and it was definitely
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: in a Chicano studies class I was in college, and
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about when did I learn about the
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: zutsu rights and when did I learn about Luis Valez
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: and the film and its significance. And I really think
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: it was just Chinanda Studies, you know, and that was
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: that puts me in like eighteen nineteen right.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: So now to.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: See it over a decade later, right on the big screen,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: because similar to you, I had only seen it on
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: a small screen.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: At all, at home or in the classroom.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And so to see it in the big screen,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I thought, was you feel like that's the way it's
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: meant to be watched. And you know, while watching the film,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: when we were listening to Luis Valez and Edward James
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: almost talk about the film, you know, I learned a
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: thing or two as well, like that it was the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: first Chicano played.
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: A debut on Broadway.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: Incredible.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: I did not know that, and I think that that
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: is incredible. And I think that's still one of the
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: things that sticks with me about Edward James almost in
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: the times that we've interviewed him, is that he's talked
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: about how, you know, he has been the only one,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: like the only Chicano to be nominated, the only Chicano
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: to have like the first, but he knows he's not
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: the only one, and he knows he shouldn't be the first,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: and that there's still a problem that when we think
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: about Chicano actors and we think about Chicano films and Chigno.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: Hollywood, like it is still.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: There's still a few of them, you know, and we
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: know that that's not the truth and that's not the
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: reality of like the talent.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we've cited studies on this podcast. Even within twenty
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: twenty six, within this past year of Latino representation in Hollywood,
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: it's still embarrassingly small.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: And minuscule and not enough, and.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: It's not whatever accurate means or authentic means, whatever.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: It means, it's just not meeting it.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: And there's something about this film that is just so
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: like nobody else could make this film, right, Like, no
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: one could make this film besides these artists, and it
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: just rings so true and it's just so beautiful to watch,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: and the language is so poetic, and for me, in
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: recent years, the only thing that has come close is
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: also a play rolling through East La Romeo and Juliet I.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: Haven't seen it, but I remember you told me about it.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Yes, Written by Louis Alfaro. And what they did is
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: they took the story of Romeo and Juliet and they
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: rewrote the script Luis Alfaro. They took the script Romeo
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: and Juliet. They used iamic pentameter, but they wrote it
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: in like East La Chicano slang. And to me, I
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: think about zoot Suit and the calas and the writing
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: and the musicality and the stylization, and the only thing
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: that has ever come close to me in all of
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: these years is this, this Romeo and Juliet rolling through
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Ea Stelle adaptation. And in talking to the writer, what
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: they want is for Romeo and Juliet rolling through East
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: La to also be a sort of cult classic. And
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: I could see it eventually one day being like our
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: modern day zoot Suit adjacent project. You know, for me,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: when I think about Zootsuit, like I feel like Zootsuit
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: has always.
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: Been a part of my life, right it has been.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, I had we have in our home a framed
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: zoot Suit film poster that has always been there because
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: the artist who designed the zoot Suit film poster, Ignacio Gomez,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: He's an iconic Chicano muralist. He's from East La. He's
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: always been based in Los Angeles. He's done some very
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: important murals and memorials, like throughout his career, print work,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: statues like he does it all. But uh, he designed
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: the Zootsuit poster. And my dad at some point in
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: his life worked with Ignacio Gomez and commissioned him to
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: do pieces when he worked in marketing. And then when
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: my dad was preparing to propose to my mother, because
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: he had a working relationship with Ignacio, my dad commissioned
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: a portrait of my mother and had Ignacio make it
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: paint it, and that was like one of his gifts
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: to my mom, like upon engagement and marriage.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Don't go anywhere Los.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: And so that portrait of my mother, that painting has
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: always hung in our family home like the centerpiece of
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: the home. And Ignacio was always a presence in my
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: life because when he had other works coming up, he
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: would come over and utilize my mom and me and
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: my siblings as models.
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, aren't you in a mural?
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: I'm in a couple of the works, I mean a
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: couple of mural and works, and so is my mom.
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: So years ago, like two thousand and one, maybe there
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: was a project where artists were given like these big
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: angel statues and the city of La and I think
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: a nonprofit organization commissioned this like public art project, and
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Ignacio was one of the artists that was assigned to
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: paint like one of these big angels, one of these
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: big angel statues. And his statue was named the Los
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Angeles Fiesta Angel. And on this statue it included images
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: of like Chicano children, like reading and learning and then
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: like dancing folklodco. So he came over and took my
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: picture and had me model and then painted the Fiesta
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Angel with my likeness and so I'm like for a while,
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: this angel was on Universal Studios City Walk outside of
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Camacho's Mexican Restaurant, and so that's when we would like
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: go to to like city Walk, like, oh, there's there,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: I am, There's there's the Fiesta Angel. So yeah, So,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: like zoot Suit has always been a part of my
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: life because of that Ignacio Gomez connection, because of the artist.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: And then when zoot Suit was there was a revival
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: of zoot Suit at the Mark Taper downtown and of
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: course we went to go see it and Melina Bobabilla,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: our good friend, was acting in the revival as Bertha, one.
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: Of my favorite characters.
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, so good.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and so I don't know.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Zootsuit is just like it's everywhere, It's among us, It's
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: part of the fabric.
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: It's the heart beat.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is the fabric of Los Angeles, right and Chicano,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: La East, La bo Heights. Yeah, it is very much
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: a part of the landscape of LA, the fabric of LA.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: And it's it's wild to me, like you have a
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: connection because of the artist who designed the poster.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: But like I mentioned before, or like I didn't.
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Learn about the zoot Suits or the riots until I
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: was in college. And so just considering that I was
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: born and raised here, grew up here, and that very
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: local history was not one that I learned until I
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: moved out of LA. And I think that that's common
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: for a lot of Latinos Chicanos who don't learn their
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: history until they go to a university or they have
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: to seek it out themselves. And it has not been
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure how it is now, but growing up,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: it was not a part of our curriculum.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: I think part of that is because it's sort of
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: a shameful part of Los Angeles history, because I think
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: that the zoot suits in the beginning, back in the
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: day were treated with disdain and disgust and were uh targets.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Zoot suitors were targets of violence. I mean the riots
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: were a violent, very violent, bloody like series of events
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: in downtown LA and in Boyle Heights on the East Side,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: in which American servicemen navymen who were like stationed in
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Long Beach in the Ports of Los Angeles, came out
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: to downtown with clubs and bats and dragged people out
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: of movie theaters. Those theaters still exist here in our
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: downtown LA historic Broadway, dragged people out of theaters and
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: beat them and stripped them of their zoot suits and
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: injured people. And the LAPD were sort of sympathetic to
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: the navymen.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the LAPD was calling it self defense.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, and arrested a lot of the victims. And the
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: movie and the play zoot Suit deals with not the
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: zoot Suit riots specifically, but with the Sleepy Lagoon murder trial,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: in which the zoot suitters are also unjustly persecuted and villainized,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: and the way that they presented themselves and their style
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: and their dress was part of like what people were
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: throwing stones about.
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: I mean in that timeframe or in that time period,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: butchuko was synonymous with like gang member, So to dress
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: as a butchuko was to imply that you were gang affiliated.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: And it was also emboldened by the lovely media. And
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: it also continued that narrative that to be a Bachuco
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: is to be a gang member, to be Mexican American
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: is to be inherently violent, To be a man of
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: color is to also be inherently violent. And so this
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: has to be like stomped on, this has to be stopped.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: And so there was that villainizing that was happening not
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: only by elected officials but also the media and how
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: they were covering these in this case for the Sleepy
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Lagoon Trial, for the Sleepy Lagoon Trial, these young Mexican
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: American men.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's interesting also in the play and in
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: the film is is there's acknowledgment that the zoots see
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: was worn by African Americans by Filipinos, Henry Raina's character
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: being played by a Filipino actor, and there being two
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: black characters in the film who are some of the
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: first faces that you see on screen in the context
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: of their like nightlife, and they're gang, the thirty eighth
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Street Gang, the crew and all the zoot suitors and
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: even the Pachuco. There's a moment in the film where
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: he mentions, like, to quote, right, the Blacks, the Mexicans,
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: the Filipinos when the media, when the press are like
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: indemnifying Henry Reina and his crew and they're referring to
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: them blanket as zoot suitors.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: And then El Pachuco says.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Well, what you're really doing is you're using coded language
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: to describe black people, Mexican people, and Filipino people who
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: are young and who are wearing these drapes, so to speak.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in the historical context which we talked about in
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: the last episode when we were talking about maxing right
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and you brought the zoot suitters as a form of
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: style maxing right, and the historical context of that time
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: was that it was World War Two, it was in
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: nineteen forties.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: There was the rationing, and.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: To use this excess fabric was seen as frivolous and
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it was seen as disrespectful an American.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: And un American.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: And in prepping for this episode, you know, I learned
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: that the servicemen also saw the zoot suitters as like
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: draft dodgers, right, and so that was another layer of
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the hatred and vitriol in addition to everything else we've stated.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and what's interesting too is that in the film,
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Henry Reina is supposed to report to the Navy like
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: the next day.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: And what I love about that detail is that Edward
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: James almost character El Pachuco tells him something. I can't
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: quote it, you probably can, but it's something along the
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: lines of like, you know, don't love the gringo more
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: than you love your people.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, you know, don't hate your rasa more than you
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: love the gringo.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, And he was referring to him enlisting and to
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: him starting or reporting for like the Navy the following day.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: And obviously the turn of events put him on a
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: different path and he was unjustly charged for the murder.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: But I liked how the character Batchuko is like this
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: omniscient like reminder of like, this is your culture, this
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: is your people, like don't turn your back on them,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: and like stop trying to assimilate, like stay true to
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: who you are, And that's one of the I think
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: core messages that we see throughout the film.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: The film is very is very complicated, The writing is
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: very complicated, absolutely, and the play is very complicated because
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: in addition to those sorts of warnings from Batchuko about
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: like loving yourself versus loving the gringo, loving yourura versus
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: loving America, there's also these moments throughout the play where
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: Elbachuko is this instigator. Yes, he is a troublemaker. He
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: gets Henry in trouble and when Henry is in solitary confinement,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: when he's in prison, he has this one on one
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: with the Batchuko where he says, I know who you are, Carnal.
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: You're me. You're the worst of me and the best
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: of me.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: And then we think back to these other moments in
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: the film where like that night where they're going out,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: Henry opens his drawer and looks at his switchblade and
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: closes the drawer and decides not to take it, and
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: immediately after Elbachuko is there and hands him the switchblade,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: and then he takes it, and so he's almost like
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Elbachuko is almost like this this double edged sword.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, this is who I am.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: But who I am can be my greatest advocate or
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: my worst Enemy Lapachukada. In the context of the film
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: is the culture, is the authenticity, is the resistance, but
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: it can also be the path to destruction. And I
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: love how the film plays in that complexity. And the
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: film is not preachy in that way. It's not like
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: down with the Gringo, down with America. You know, we
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: are right, we are perfect, we are everything. It really
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: dabbles in the wow to quote the film, like just
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: what they want to see two more Mexicans killing each other, right,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: And I love the film for that. And it was
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: written so long ago, and it was made so long ago.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: And it's not a question that's a new question. It's
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: not an issue that's a new issue. It tells us
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: that our people have been struggling with this for a
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: long time.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: We saw this film at the Ford because of its anniversary, right,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: because of the forty fifth year, to see how the
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: messages carry on today in the context of ice rays,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: in the context of people showing up like wearing like
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: their cultural pride or garments, and seeing how people are
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: using now style as a form of resistance. We see
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: the prensas right, and the monios are very popular right now.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Within I think like the gen Z community that are
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: who are Latinas, and so I can see that parallel
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: in the reality that we are living through present day.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: And how you know, in the nineteen forties there was
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the Zoot Suitors. There was that type of discrimination across
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: the country, right, not just against Mexican Americans, but you know,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: this was still during Jim Crow, the Jim Crow era.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: This was still during segregation. And so to again just see,
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: it's one of those things where you look at progress
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: and you can say like, Okay, yeah, things have changed
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: for the best, and then you can also say like, oh,
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: but so much is also still the same.
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: And for me, that's what that film.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: I think that's why it is such a cult classic
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: because even ten years ago that film, you know, you
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: could say like, oh, there's still a lot of parallels here,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: you know, but watching it in this day, I can
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: see the parallels between the racial profiling that the Zoot
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Suitors were facing in the nineteen forties, fast forward to
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: now the racial profiling that Latinos are facing in this
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: country when it comes to immigration stops, when it comes
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: to even you know, the due process that is lacking
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: and is actually killing people in our community across the country.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: It is just so strike it's striking, you know, the
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: parallels that can we can see between then and now,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: and is one of the reasons I think this film
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: is the cult classic that it is.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: I agree completely.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: I think what you just identified is also the reality
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: that Latinos we are not the Irish, You're not the Polish.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And it's not as if within one generation or even
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: two generations, three generations, discrimination is going to fade out, right.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: It's like, you know, there's this idea of like barometer
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: of who became white. Yes, right, and so like Irish
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Italian people, they did face discrimination intensely, but then at
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: one point they were included in our idea of whiteness.
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: They were absorbed. Yeah, and they assimilated.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: And they assimilated, and I Latinos have not had, not
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: all of them have had that same type of access
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: to whiteness.
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: No, I don't think we qualify. Not all of it qualify.
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: Not all of us qualify something.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Not all of us want to either.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: It's also a choice to opt in. And I think
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: that things like wearing a zoot suit, wearing your trendsas
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: wearing your cultural signifiers are a direct decision to opt
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: in to Latinidad and to your culture that is not
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: US American whiteness.
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: Don't go anywhere lo is right back, absolutely, yeah, And
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: I think decades later we still find ourselves asking this
• 28:21
  Speaker 5: question because you know, not much has changed in these ways,
• 28:26
  Speaker 5: but it's this idea of like who gets to claim
• 28:29
  Speaker 5: a US American identity and who is afforded like American news.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: And when we think of this.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Construct of quote America meaning the United States, there is
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: a clear picture in mind, and it's not necessarily our
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: community or the people who look like us.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is funny because there is no specific American
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: standard of what it looks like to be an American.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: It doesn't exist, Actually, it doesn't exist. So I think
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: going back suit is an American standard of beauty because
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: it was created here in the United States, from Harlem
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: and cab Calloway to the streets of downtown in East LA.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Like it's coast to coast, and it is quintessentially American.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's so you know, in this orbit right now,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: in my orbit in particular, you know, we bought tickets
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: to see Zoutsu at the Ford.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: We talked about it.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: You brought it to the Looks Maxing. You brought it
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: to the Maxing episode, And simultaneously.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: My grad school instructor.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: He wrote this piece about Mexican Americans rooting for Mexico
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: during the World Cup and he's a third generation Mexican American.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: He's at the Hano. What's interesting is that.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: He quotes Luis Faldez, who he saw speak at a
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: conference like back in the eighties, and they're having this
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: conversation about.
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: Like what do we call ourselves? Right?
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Are we Hispanic? Are we Latino? Are we Chicano? We're like,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: are we Mexican? American?
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: Who are we? And Oscar quotes him saying, you know
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: what I am.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I'm American because I was born in Delanno, California. I'm
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: a son of migrant farm workers from Mexico. And I
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: think that that is such to me, like really struck
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: me that he identified, like, well, I'm an American, because
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: that is not something I have opted into as an identity.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: And what Oscar writes.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: In this is like, if you don't claim it, no
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: one's going to give it to you. And I thought
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: that that was a really interesting point and not one
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: that I had considered before because I'm not necessarily fighting
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: for this like quote American identity of what we think
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: of like an all American girl, that is a very
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: specific standard. But by way of where I was born, yeah,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: I am, you know, a US born American. And so
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: that was like a cultural nuance that I think was
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: missing for me. And it doesn't mean I'm going to
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: like change how I but that point of like, if
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: we don't claim it, they're not going to give it
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: And I thought that that was really interesting.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: It's very interesting, and it reminds me of years ago
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: we were having a conversation about Selena and I don't
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: think she ever identified as a Chicana. I don't know
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: if the family identifies as Chicanos, the Tejanos, right, but
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: I remember we had a comment from somebody that said,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: just in basic the basic definition of what Chicano or
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Chicana is like, to be of Mexican American descent born
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: in the United States after a certain period of time
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: can qualify you to be a Chicana. A Chicano the
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: same way as like a tomato by definition is.
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: A fruit, right, yes.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Like by definition and the characteristics and the qualities that
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: make one this you are that right and by the
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: same token, like have a US passport. You know, I
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: was born in the United States the same way. I'm
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: a Californian, but I've never gone around ever and said
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I'm a Californian.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm from LA but I just am yeah,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: of course, yeah.
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: Of course, yeah yeah.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: And I actually had a conversation with my brother about
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: that maybe a couple of years ago, where I asked him,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: you know, what, how do you identify? You know, my
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: brother is full Mexican on both sides, and so he
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: like had to think about it, and he was like,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I think Mexican American, he was like, but also Chicano
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: fits for me.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, you know, and we had it.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Even like within my brother and I we hadn't had
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: that conversation or like, how how do we identify and
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: what feels right for you? And so yeah, I think
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: like identity, it's so personal obviously, but it I think
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: in the context of the two hundred and fiftieth birthday,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: you know, we wanted to talk about like Chicano's and
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Mexican Americans and this like American identity and the zootsuits
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: being a part of American history.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: What I love most about the World Cup, not most,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: but like one of the things that is like so
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: amazing to me is like at the Mexico Games, rip
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: since disqualified, but there's a mariachi song that gets played
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: Viva Mexico, Viva America. Yes, yes, at all the Mexico Games. Yes,
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: And it's like need I say more?
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Right, When I was growing up, my dad was very
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: very very very staunch in that in like America is
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: not one place. No, Like there's South America, there's Central America,
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: there's North America. My father would quiz us, quiz me
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: on like what what country was in which part, Like
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: was it in the in the South, in South America,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: in Central and North And that was like a part
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: of like the dinner table quiz that he would give me.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: And yeah, he was very My dad very much taught
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: me at a very young age, like America is not
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: just one place. People here in the US will always
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: talk about this place as America, as them being American,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: and he's like, but I'm American too, I'm from South
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: America that is also in America. And so that I
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: think has always been like just my personal frustration with
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: these conversations of like how you the US becomes like
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the America, you know, when we know that there's there's
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: more than one the America.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Cause yeah, it's a whole hemisphere, honey, Yes it's the
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: whole Western hemisphere.
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: Yes, I'm an American. Yeah, we all are get in line,
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: get it, get in line.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: All right, Loka Motives. Thank you for listening to another radio.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: We'll catch you next time, bess Lo