Latest / Radio 831: A Romance Podcast / Romance Adaptations, Rivals Season 2 with Tarah DeWitt, and Internet Boyfriend Nominations

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Romance Adaptations, Rivals Season 2 with Tarah DeWitt, and Internet Boyfriend Nominations · Radio 831: A Romance Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to the Radio eight three one podcast.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: We're your hosts, Sinjon Obasker and Tyler McCall, and we're
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: so excited to talk everything romance, from the novels and
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: the tropes, to the book to screen adaptations and of
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: course the drama of it all, you know, unpacking what
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the genre says about who we are and how we love. Okay,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: so we are officially I think, maybe actually in the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: thick of but definitely at the beginning starting point of
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: summer entertainment season. Yeah, lots of exciting romance related adaptations coming.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: H I want to check in. How are we feeling
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: about things? What is the state of the romance adaptation
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: in this the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty six. Tyler,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be so real with you. I'm quite nervous, nervous, scared.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: I'm nervous scared. I'm nervous, I'm fearful. I'm fearful because Okay, look,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: we have lots coming right. The Love Hypothesis is coming
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: out this year every summer. After trailer dropped already, we
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: know that Michael B. Jordan is working on a fourth
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Wing adaptation, which Wild, Wild, Wild, partnership. Wild really curious
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: about that many questions.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: We know Kennedy, Ryan and John Legend are working together
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: to adopt Skyland, which I think is going to be
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: really exciting. There's a lot coming. There is so much coming.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Oh you deserve each Other is also doing its last reshoots.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: I think they just released some images from the reshoots,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: and I have heard early rumblings which give me pause. Basically,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: a lot is happening, and we are also coming fresh
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: off the heels of Heated Rivalry and people we meet
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: on vacation.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So Heated Rivalry arguably the highest high, yes, the highest
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: hime in romance adaptations, just like the Collective Psychosis. We
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: all underwent the end of last year into the beginning
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: of this year. But Sonjra, what do you think it was?
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Because I have ideas, but I'm curious what you think
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: that made Heated Rivalry such a perfect romance adaptation.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: There's so many things. I think Jacob Tierney has an
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: idea for how romance works. As plot like it is,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: the story, hockey is secondary. If you watch some of
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: the edits online, you could be convinced it's a show
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: about hockey, but it's really not. That it's not it's
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: about intimacy. It seems almost superfluous to suggest romance adaptations
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: need to take romance seriously as a plot structure, But
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: I do actually think that it bears mentioning, And I
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: think that Heated Rivalry was singular for its ability to
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: do so in a sea of romance adaptations that aren't
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: always aware of that. But I think it's also that
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: it was able to take the strongest parts of the book,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: the chemistry and the dialogue, and build on it with
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: a visual language that doesn't necessarily exist in the book,
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: but like creates a visual and auditory language from the
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: book that compliments what exists really well. So there's like
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: real homage to the book as a valuable source text,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and a willingness to release the book when it needs
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: to be released. Me a million other things. The music
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: choices were great, the casting choices were great. There's a
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: simplicity to it that is so effective, like you don't
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: require a ton of bells and whistles to tell a
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: good story. But at its heart as a romance adaptation,
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I'm compelled by its ability to see what is worth
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: plucking from the book and what needs to be translated
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: differently exactly.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: That's my feeling too, is that Jacob Tierney has so
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: much respect for the source material, Like it's very clear
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: that he loves the source material, but he isn't precious
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: about it. And I think that Rachel seems really happy
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: with the adaptation, which bodes well to me.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: I think finding the balance of author involvement versus being
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: hands off is really tricky. Personally, I have felt like
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: projects get too bogged down by too much author involvement
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: m hm, versus like not enough author involvement because you
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: get a production team who doesn't like that they have
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: a romance. I think we've seen in popular culture some
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: example where it's a romance adaptation where the romance almost
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: feels secondary. Yeah, and then the People we Meet on
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Vacation adaptation, which is the first Emily Henry adaptation, and
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Emily Henry is such a giant in the romance world,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and it just felt like the reaction to that was
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: so different.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh that face I see. My face is that
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: it was a perfectly forgettable movie. And I think People
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: we Meet on Vacation is her most technically accomplished book.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's really really skillful on a line level.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: I think that Friends to Lovers isn't even really a
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: structure that I tend to love. And I really think
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: that people you meet on Vacation is a beautiful book.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: There were just like gaping character holes in the movie
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: that made me feel like, no matter what the screenwriting
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: or intentions were, what ended up being chopped and left
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: on the cutting room floor, created like a simulation of
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: a romance instead of being true, substantive, memorable romance. Me,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: how did you feel about it?
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I loved it. I have to say I think ninety
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: percent of what I loved about it, And this is
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: a testament to casting was Emily Bater. She's so good,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: so charming. Yeah, she's so charming. And I had never
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: seen My Lady Jane, which despite people yelling at me
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: to watch it for years and then sow up my
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: alley it Kyler.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Speaking of adaptations, I know, Well, here's the thing. Here's
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: the thing, right first, you need to cast actors who
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: treat genre as a serious set of conventions that are
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: worth exploring. Emily Batter has this like naked appreciation for
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: people we made on vacation, and like in interviews was
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: constantly talking about how she's like marked up the book
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: and referenced it so many times. Hudson and Connor have
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: also spoken about their like appreciation and fondness for romance
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: even though they weren't familiar with it, even though it's
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: not their preferred genre. They had this like openness and
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: curiosity about these kinds of stories that I think really
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: translated to their presstory and their performances. So I think
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: some of the lessons need to be you have to
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: cast people who want to be in these movies. Yeah.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I also don't really have faith that studios understand that
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: they need to be horny. Yeah, Unfortunately, I think that
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: is important. Yeah, we gotta be horney.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: I mean the number of times Jacob Tarney gave an
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: interview where he was like, this wouldn't have been made
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: if it was made in the US, because they would
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: have said they can kiss in episode six.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I know and listen, I love a slow burn. But
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: sometimes the sex is the point, right, Sometimes the sex
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: is the point.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Sex's character work.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Like, if you can't figure out a way to keep
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the audience on tender hooks without withholding the sex, that's
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: a you problem.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: It's kind of lazy sometimes like yeah, a failure to
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: understand like what real intimacy looks like and how it
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: can be different based on the sex scene. I'm also
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: curious for you if you have like thoughts on how
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: closely adaptations need to take beats from the source text?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Are you a loyalist? Is their room for them to
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: take on their own spin?
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Honestly, I think this is also part of why I
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: enjoyed the people we meet on Vacation Adaptation a little
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: bit more, is because I viewed it as its own thing,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: like I just kind of completely divorced it from the
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: source material entirely. I'm not necessarily a loyalist because I
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: understand that what works on the page isn't necessarily what
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: works on screen, and vice versa. Right, One of my
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: favorite romances of all time is Before Sunrise, and I
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: think that would make the most boring novel you've ever
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: read in your life, you know what I mean, Like,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: if you tried to adapt that into eighty thousand words,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: you would be like, please stop. But on screen that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: really sparks. I think it's important for authors, and I
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: know that not everybody has control over this, but authors
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: to find a partner who, like Jacob Tarranny, respects the
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: source material enough that it's not trying to rewrite it
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: to be something else entirely. They're not looking at your
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: book as a version of this other thing that was
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: really popular, so we need to shoehorn it into this
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: other format. But also somebody who can keep the elements
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: that are really charming about the book or that fans
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: really love. I think that's a huge thing. I don't
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: think it bodes well that fans reacted the way that
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: they have to, like Patrick Schwarzenegger bad and Beach read
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: are we do?
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I dare say that, like it didn't react well as
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: putting it really gently till I don't think I've seen
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: that much consensus in Romance in years years. Romance, famously
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: a community that doesn't agree about anything for the most part,
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: crashed out, really really agreed on this.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So hard over Patrick Schwortznager's casting. He's just such a
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: sauceless individual to.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Me, Like, I just I don't even know what to say,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: Like I find him so disappointing that and I don't
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: even have that kind of investment in beat read like that.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I'm a loyalist to that text. But yes, many many
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: of those who I'm close to feel deep allegiance. Even
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: without that investment, I feel disappointed, you know.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it has been interesting. I don't know enough to
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: call it a gold rush. But as we've said, the
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: love hypothesis, which I'm very excited for based on like
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: literally two second clips, I'm excited the every summer after
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: which the adaptation is called every year after. I'm always
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: fascinated when they change the names.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Do you remember when people you meet on vacation became
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you and me on vacation and the British version and
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: everyone was like, why did you do that?
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so confusing.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: You and me and people were not the issue. Yeah,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: with the title of it anyway, it's deside the point.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: But that kind of reminds me of that, like that
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: every summer after to every year every year after. So
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: that's coming June tenth Michael B. Jordan producing Fourth Wing,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: which is about the funniest combination I could possibly imagine. Also,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: for some reason, the idea that a Fourth Wing adaptation
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: might happen before an Akatar adaptation is really funny to me.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the key is just that, like romance,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: people want to see adaptations that take them seriously and
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: treat them like adults who have paste and care about
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: art and like ten express discernment when they're watching things,
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: because I think so often there's this interest in adapting
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: books that have existing audiences and fan bases, specifically because
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: it's like, Oh, we're going to capitalize off of the
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: existing readership that will show up and pay for this movie,
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: and then a total lack of respect for that readership
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: once they get through the door. And I mean none
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: of this is to say that like adapting something for
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: visual medium is easy, movies and TV shows are simply
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: more complex media Like the number of choices made around
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: sound and casting and writing and pacing. You just have
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: to make four million more choices than you do with
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: the book. And that isn't to disparage a novel, but like,
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: functionally a novel is easier to produce than a TV
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: show or a movie.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: But also choices that aren't in your control as a writer.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I like, casting is a big one. I mean, like,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: if you want to circle back to beat read and
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: you know people had fan casts of Beatree, yeah, and
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, why wouldn't you cast this person, they're
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: right there while they might not be interested, they might
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: not be in budget, they might not be available, maybe
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: they don't have good chemistry, maybe they don't respect the
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: source material. Like, there's a million reasons why that person
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: that is your dream for the role isn't possible. I mean,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: and that's just one one actor, which is like one
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: component of five hundred components that need to come together. Right.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Well, part of it is that, Like, I also think
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: that we should be casting more unknowns and these works.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Oh one thousand percent. I hope that that's what people
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: take away from heated rivalry because I think that that's
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: what works. I think that you don't need to have
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: a big name attached to something, especially if you're talking
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: about a proper day that's already got a built in
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: fan base. You can take that risk find somebody who
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: is this is going to be their big break.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, did you see that tweet that was like the
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: best actor you know is currently serving at a Golden
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Corral in Tennessee. Believe it.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: This is a very apropos conversation for us to be
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: having because speaking of adaptations, today we have Tara DeWitt
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: on to discuss the new season of Rivals.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited to have Tara on. She has a
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: dear friend who I've been tagging relentlessly in edits of
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Declan O'Hara and Rupert and Taggy on TikTok, so she
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: is very well equipped to have this conversation. But she's
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: also a romance author who has written some really lovely books.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: I started with Funny Feelings, but she's also written Root
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Bound and Savor It and The co Op and Left
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: of Forever which will break your heart. And Tara also
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: has Boston Found coming out in August, so it's the
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: last book, or for now last book in her Spoons series,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: which is setting Spoons Oregon. Not to be confused with
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Forks Washington.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't even make that connection.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: She's cooking with gas.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Kara.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for coming on. I am so
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: delighted that we're going to get the chance to talk
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: to you about Rivals. Yes, Rivals season two, specifically episodes
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: one through three.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: I am so delighted to be here. I cannot wait.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: I've actually been tagging Tara in edits of Declad O'Hara
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: and Rubert Cambell Black for like over a year. At
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: this point. It's funny because we literally were talking about
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: how part of what makes you so qualified for this
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: conversation is that you are also singularly gifted with a
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: mustache in a novel.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, thank you.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: You know what to do with a man with a mustache,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: and I really just genuinely appreciate that about you.
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: If a man can pull off a good mustache, it's
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: superior to a beard, because you have to have a
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: good chin, great mouth, great everything.
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I could preach about my bash.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: You're so right.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I have been wondering what makes a difference between a
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: mustache and just generally facial hair, and that that really
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: articulates it for me. Thank you.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: What did you think of the episodes? How did you feel?
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: I absolutely loved it.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: If I felt exhilary watching it, I can't help but
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: watch that and think these people have so much fun
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: making this show. Yes, yeah, I also am just fascinated
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: by the way it plays with sex and honesty, and
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: this season seems to be like where that all is
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: head and I'm excited to see what they've got planned
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: around that stuff.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Wait, okay, say more about the sex piece, because this
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: is also the thing that I'm really interested in with Rivals,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: and especially season two, like season one was obviously explicitly sexual,
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Like I remember being really stunned by that right off
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: the bat, But I don't know if I'm just misremembering
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: or if season two is actually more explicit.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: The nudity is crazy.
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: I mean it hit the ground running, that's for sure. Yeah,
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: I think it's so interesting that this season we are
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: specifically seeing Rupert, who is somebody who was, you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: a bit of a casanova, actually try to be monogamous
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: and like he's really didn' denying part of his nature.
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: But he's in the past been somebody who's just been
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: known to also be like very honest and unashamed. Whereas
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: then there are people like Lizzie and Fred who are
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: these like more what you imagine to be like good people.
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: Lizzie especially is so good at seeing all these characters
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: in her life. I mean, as the writer of the group,
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: it kind of makes sense, but she's still sort of
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: denying herself because of this idea of what makes a
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: good person. Yet she can see Rupert's worthiness and the
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: good in him and sees everybody else, And I just
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: I think that's so interesting The scene between Ducklan and
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: Maud really yeah, right off the bat, well done, excellently done.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: Beautifully lit, Yes, beautifully lit.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Beautifully lit, I mean flexing cheeks.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Shout out to the intimacy coordinator for noen, what's up.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Shout out to the intimacy coordinator who's working the hardest
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: intimacy coordinator has worked since heeded Rivalry. I think part
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: of what has been so interesting about Rivals and so
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: refreshing about it for me in terms of the sex,
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: is that, like, yes, it serves character purpose, like the
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: point that you're making about Lizzie and her denying her
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: self pleasure and how that indicates something about her like
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: loyalty and allegiances and morality, and like she sees the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: like intense sexual escapades of Rupert and still sees the
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: good in him, but like can't see that in herself
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: when she's similarly like in pursuit of pleasure. There is
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: also a certain amount of sex, especially this season, that
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: I think could be qualified as like gratuitous or like
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: less essential to demonstrate on screen. But I guess I'm
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: curious about like if that's even the right word to use,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Like is there such a thing as a gratuita sex scene.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Is there such a thing as an essential sex scene?
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: And like, how do you parse out which one is which?
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: In this show, Gratuda's feels so loaded to like gratuita
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: sex scene.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like that can all be true.
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: A lot of us have a lot of feelings or
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: hopes of Rupert and Taggy eventually being this thing. But
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: obviously he's with Cameron right now, and so there's been
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: a lot of explicit sex scenes between them. I can
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: think of a lot of romance readers who would argue,
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: like I don't want to see them in the beginning
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: of the book having anything with anybody else when they're
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: gonna end up with this person later, you know. So
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: I could see how somebody might say that, But I
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: think that the show kind of lets people feel and
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: act on their feelings a little bit and sexually, and
• 17:37
  Speaker 4: so I don't know that I would say anything has
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: felt very gratuitous to me, entertaining as hell, no matter what.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, like pleasure for pleasure's sake is also worthwhile.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I think I'm team all sex is essential sex.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Agreed, Agreed, If I may agreed we're standing firm on that.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: Actually, here's my question. Have either of you read the book?
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I have not read the books?
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Me neither.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I want to.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: This has never been the case for anything, any piece
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: of media that I've ever consumed that has a book
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: option available to me. I actually enjoyed and loved the
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: show so much and had so much fun with it,
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: and it felt like this like precious thing that I
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: didn't want to tate with the book, which is like,
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: I have so much respect to their original source material,
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: but I.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Didn't want to know what happened.
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: I really wanted to keep experiencing it the way that
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: I have been experiencing it.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm scared to read them, like I'm a little
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: bit scared to read them. All respect to Dame Jullie Cooper,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: diva icon like cannot say enough how much I admire her.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: The parts that we find objectionable on some moral level
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: about these characters. I'm sure that is about four hundred
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: times more in the books, and I actually think that
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I might just be too soft to handle it.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: My friend I was watching it with has read all
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: the books, and she was like modest, way meaner to
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Taggy in the books, and I was like, I don't
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: think I can handle that.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: I find the fact that I dislike her to also
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: be like an interesting part of the viewing experience. Like
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: I appreciate that there isn't a single character except for
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: maybe Taggy in this entire series, who is like uncomplicatedly lovable.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: There's like an edge to every single person. Actually, this
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: is part of what I love about Rivals though, right that,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: like the idea that certain things are morally objectionable is
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: not simply part of the work, it's part of what
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: makes it so fun to watch, which is very I think,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: different from a lot of what we associate with like
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: contemporary romance. Yes, where like the moral expectations around the
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: arc of love are so rigid, even more so than
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: romances of the past, like the Rivals and the books
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: that these are based off of are more bonkbusters, so
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: like peripheral, closer to like the ancestor of the chick
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: lit novel than like a true genre romance, but like
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: you know, shared ancestors like bonkbusters chick lit romance all
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: in the same bubble. But like, I think I have
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: feelings about why it is that romance people like us
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: love something that isn't straightforwardly romance. And what is so
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: exciting about the fact that, like everyone is kind of
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: a bad person.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: It's that complicated imperfect people deserve love too. Like it's
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: that it's that for me. Whenever I like try to
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: define why something really moved me the way it moved me,
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: it's always that it brushed up against that insecurity or
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: fear in me about my worthiness of love or my
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: worthiness as far as love. And I saw somebody with
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: something similar, somebody that made similar choices, had similar negative
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: thought or what you know, mean, jealous thoughts, whatever, and
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: I watched them be seen and end up being loved.
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: I love seeing that, and I love seeing that and
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: even imperfect people who aren't necessarily like me, I can
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: find something and still I mean find a way to
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: identify with it. That's my favorite favorite thing.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: We've talked about this on the pod before that if
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I read a romance novel and they are just two
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: perfect people who have everything figured out, I find that
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: so boring, Like this could have been an email, yeah,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: because that just doesn't feel realistic to me. Like I
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: was not a perfect, fully realized person when I fell
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: in love with my husband, and neither was he, And
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: like that's not how love works, and it doesn't always
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: work in this like perfect idealized way, and it just
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: it doesn't stay that way, like it doesn't remain this
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: one specific thing for the rest of your life. And
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: so they're messy, But like, how many people do you
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: know in your life that you love who are messy?
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: I have very messy friends, and I'm rooting for them,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: every single one.
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: Of them for me.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think there's also something so honest pleasure, jealousy, envy.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: They're such like raw honest emotions or pursuits. Like the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: fact that Rupert is constantly hunting down like the next
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: source of pleasure is actually a really honest part of him.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: The fact that there's like the thinnest veneer of performance
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: on this thing that actually drives everyone in this show,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: I think is something that I find really compelling. But like,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Lizzie and Freddie are not actually all that good at
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: pretending that they don't desperately want each other, even though
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: they are putting on more of a performance than people
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: like Rupert or Cameron. What's David Tennant's character's name again,
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I keep thinking Tony Battingham.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: I wanted to say though about honesty and about all
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: this and like Rupert, I think what's interesting to this
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: season is that this is this like first time we've
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: seen him really sort of try to deny himself. Yeah,
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: and like put himself in a lane. And yeah, of
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: course this is when his life falls apart. Like what
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: does that say about like the pursuit of like honesty
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: and like being true to yourself versus you know, these
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: societal norms.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: I think that that's I'm really interested to see they
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: where they take all that.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that, Tara, Thank you for coming on
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: and talking. Plus it was so lovely to have you on.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Coming off the heels of being horny for a beautiful
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: men like Alex Hassel and In Turner. We have decided
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: to play a little game where each financial quarter, because
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: this is a business and we take it very seriously,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: very we argue or present a case for the Internet's Boyfriend,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and we are in Q two. I looked it up
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: just to be sure we are in financial Q two.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: What you don't know is that Tyler is a financial prodigy.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: What you don't know is that I am actually an
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: expert in finances and you should take my advice. Please
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: never do that. Big girl Boss over here, Big girl Boss.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: We decided that we are going to each pick a
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: candidate for Internet boyfriend. We have not discussed this with
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: each other previously. Counsel, are you prepared?
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Why am I talking like it's a law firm? I
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: don't know. Law and finance are the same thing to me.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Let's go.
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: We earn an episode of suits and this is actually
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: a vital importance mergers and acquisitions.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Yes, what acquisition are we making? What acquisition are we making?
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Let's go. So I'm pitching Hannah Einbinder, him Styler.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: I love Hannah, I mind are so much that. Yeah,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I know that's about such a real reaction.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: You knew, I do know.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: That's I'm honestly pissed that I didn't think about Hannah Eyeminder.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: And you know what's honestly, I ran this.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: By multiple people and they were all like Hannah, obviously like,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: but I gave them a bunch of options, and Hannah
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: was the only like non man on that list, and
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: they were all like, Hannah, Yeah.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Hannah, Hannah, call me the kids miss you literally, Okay,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: you don't need to make the case for me. You're
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: so this is sold. I have invested so heavily in
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: Hannah Irombinder, like I will lose my underwear. It sounds crazy.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: What's the expression when you like lose your when you
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: like lose something on a stock I was trying to
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: like make a stock joke, and instead I just got
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: very horny, very fast.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: I've invested heavily in Hannah Eyeminder. It doesn't matter, but
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: make your case because I think maybe if not everybody
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: is on board the way that I was like, we
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: need to know.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: So I'm picking Hannah. I'mbinder partially for like aura of reasons,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: like she just moves through the world with a specific
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: kind of confidence that I think is so hot. And
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: I also think stunning, beautiful, gorgeous woman. I think about
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: her purple dress for the Hacks premiere every day of
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: my life, like truly. I sent the picture around when
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: I was evaluating her as a candidate with my friends
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: and everyone was like I can't stop looking at her,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: and I was like, that's correct. She's stunning. Also politically active,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: politically astute queen. I love her for that also, and
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: she's ridiculously funny and talented, and she's gonna be in
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: the new Jane Schoenberg. I don't know how to say yeah,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: but Jane Schoenberg movie, Gillian Anderson right with Gillian Anderson.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: And I also think partially my case comes from the
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: fact that I firmly believe it to be Age Gap season,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: like Age Got Romance season, and I'm an Age Got
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Romance defender. Stand behind me Age Goat Romance. And I
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: think that her as Ava and Deborah like I saw
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: an Avura. I guess that's what they're calling the ship.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: But like Ava Deborah edit set to Ribs by Lord,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: that actually rocked me to my god cellular level, on
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: a cellular level, And so that's why I'm putting her forward.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I think she's got the aura. I think she has
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: the looks. I think she has the talent, the cultural cachet.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Listen, I'm sliding her file across the table to you,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: and I'm holding it close to my chest. I'm holding
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: it like a baby, good, gorgeous. I love her. She
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: makes my bisexual heart sing, Yeah, it's beautiful. Okay, so
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: you blew me so far out of the water here. However,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: I came at this a little bit differently.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: Let's hear it.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I came at this as like, I want to pitch
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: an internet boyfriend. I want to make an internet boyfriend happen.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Oh okay, wow, I love that. Okay, let's hear it.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I want to use my power for evil. I would
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: really like to pitch for your consideration. Aldan Aaron Reich.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: Oh have you seen him?
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Wow? Out of left field. But I'm very compelled.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I love him so much. He was discovered by Steven
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Spielberg at a bom mitzvah. Oh sure or something like that.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: It's really crazy. He has this crazy origin story and
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: he was this ascending star in the acting world. He
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: was in like a Francis Ford Copola movie. He was
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: in the Hail Caesar movie by the Cohen Brothers. He
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: was in that movie fair Play with Phoebe Dinover.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Yes, very hot, even though he's very evil like as
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: in Oppenheimer.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Also, he was in Oppenheimer. He was in weapons, so
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: he used his cachet. He bought like an old trolley
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: station in la and has turned it into a theater.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: He's like the creative director of a Theater in la
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: And yeah, I know, isn't that sick? I love him
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: so much, like he just actually genuinely really loves acting.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: He is currently in a play on Broadway called Becky Shaw.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: I have not seen it, but I'm trying desperately to go.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: And he got nominated for a Tony for this play.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I had him as my pick for Gus in the
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Beatrade adaptation. He was my left field pick. But please
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: google this man if you are not smiliar. But he's
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: also he's in this Misty Your cheriad with Natalie Portman
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: from twenty thirteen YouTube it It's so hot, Okay, it's
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: directed by Sophia Coppola.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Sure, I'm just saying why not.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I think he's on the bubble. We're going to be
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: seeing more of him, and also I just really selfishly
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: want to see more of him. Yeah, I'm using this
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: platform to pitch him and to bring more people into
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: my internet boyfriend fandom.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: I like this, and I think this is a strong contender,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: and it's appropriately left field enough that I think it's
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: not overly obvious. My first exposure to him was in
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: the movie Beautiful Creatures. Did you ever watch that? Which
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: by the way Viola Davis is in We Don't Talk
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: About That, and Jeremy Irons is also in that. Wow,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: it's a crazy cast, but it's an adaptation of like
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: a y a romanticy kind of situation that's like Southern Gothic.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I'm locked in.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: That's my main exposure to him as like a romantically
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: boyfriend material, if you will.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: So I love my pick, but like, I just feel
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: like very targeted by Hannah. I'mbinder. So I feel like Hannah,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: I'mbinder's got to be the top contender here.
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: I just I feel so strongly about her in a
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: positive way, and I think that her livery of the
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: word Branzino is the best that exists on camera and
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: after Montecito. I just think that her romantic chops are
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: there to be Internet boyfriend, you know what I mean.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I'm Binder, romance sold.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Call me, Hannah, call me are you free for dinner
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: on Thursday in the evening when I'm free for dinner? Also,
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: Hannah Thursday, Hannah.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: Please, that's the show, baby, that show is that's the show.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: That is it?
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Call us and leave us a voicemail with your thoughts
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: at eight three three eight three one Love That's eight
• 30:37
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• 30:41
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• 30:43
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• 30:46
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• 30:49
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• 30:53
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• 31:11
  Speaker 1: The Radio eight three one podcast is a production of
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts, hosted by Sandana Bascar and Tyler McCall. The
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: show was produced by Liz Smith and for iHeart. Our
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: supervising producer is Emily merodof special thanks to the whole
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: iHeart team and especially Ali Perry and Alison Kanter Graper.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Claire Maser and Erica Cerulo. Our
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: music is Domino by James Ryan Carr and Love Is
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: What You Do by Alibi. We'll be sharing love here
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: again next week,